Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

[RandomGuy]

They flat-out arrested his ass. :wow

CHICAGO – Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich was arrested Tuesday on charges of conspiring to get financial benefits through his authority to appoint a U.S. senator to fill the vacancy left by Barack Obama's election as president.

According to a federal criminal complaint, Blagojevich also was charged with illegally threatening to withhold state assistance to Tribune Co., the owner of the Chicago Tribune, in the sale of Wrigley Field. In return for state assistance, Blagojevich allegedly wanted members of the paper's editorial board who had been critical of him fired.

A 76-page FBI affidavit said the 51-year-old Democratic governor was intercepted on court-authorized wiretaps over the last month conspiring to sell or trade the vacant Senate seat for personal benefits for himself and his wife, Patti.

The affidavit said Blagojevich discussed getting a substantial salary for himself at a nonprofit foundation or an organization affiliated with labor unions.

It said Blagojevich also talked about getting his wife placed on corporate boards where she might get $150,000 a year in director's fees.

He also allegedly discussed getting campaign funds for himself or possibly a post in the president's cabinet or an ambassadorship once he left the governor's office.

"I want to make money," the affidavit quotes him as saying in one conversation.

U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald said in a statement that "the breadth of corruption laid out in these charges is staggering."

"They allege that Blagojevich put a for sale sign on the naming of a United States senator," Fitzgerald said."

Among those being considered for the post include U.S. Reps. Danny Davis and Jesse Jackson Jr.

Blagojevich also was charged with using his authority as governor in an attempt to squeeze out campaign contributions.

His chief of staff, John Harris, also was arrested.

Corruption in the Blagojevich administration has been the focus of a federal investigation involving an alleged $7 million scheme aimed at squeezing kickbacks out of companies seeking business from the state. Federal prosecutors have acknowledged they're also investigating "serious allegations of endemic hiring fraud" under Blagojevich.

Political fundraiser Antoin "Tony" Rezko who raised money for the campaigns of both Blagojevich and Obama is awaiting sentencing after being convicted of fraud and other charges. Blagojevich's chief fundraiser, Christopher G. Kelly, is due to stand trial early next year on charges of obstructing the Internal Revenue Service.

According to Tuesday's complaint, Blagojevich schemed with Rezko, millionaire-fundraiser turned federal witness Stuart Levine and others to get financial benefits for himself and his campaign committee.

Federal prosecutors said Blagojevich and the chairman of his campaign committee have been speeding up corrupt fundraising activities in the last month to get as much money as possible before the end of the year when a new law would curtail his ability to raise contributions from companies with state contracts worth more than $50,000.

According to the affidavit, agents learned Blagojevich was seeking $2.5 million in campaign contributions by the end of the year, with a large part allegedly to come from companies and individuals who have gotten state contracts or appointments.

Blagojevich took the chief executive's office in 2003 as a reformer promising to clean up former Gov. George Ryan's mess.

Ryan, a Republican, is serving a 6-year prison sentence after being convicted on racketeering and fraud charges. A decade-long investigation began with the sale of driver's licenses for bribes and led to the conviction of dozens of people who worked for Ryan when he was secretary of state and governor.

FBI spokesman Frank Bochte said federal agents arrested the governor and Harris simultaneously at their homes at 6:15 a.m. and took them to the Chicago FBI headquarters.

Bochte said he did not know if either man was handcuffed or if the governor's family was their North Side home at the time of his arrest. He did say Blagojevich and Harris both were given time to get dressed before being taken to the headquarters.

He also did not have any details about Blagojevich's arrest, only that he was cooperative with federal agents.

"It was a very calm setting," he said.

The governor was to appear later Tuesday before U.S. Magistrate Judge Nan Nolan to answer the charges. The time was not immediately set.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081209/ap_on_re_us/blagojevich_corruption_probe

[Wild Cobra]

I heard about that already on a radio program this morning.

Sounds like business as usual for Illinois politics.

Have anything that's news?

[Yonivore]

I heard about that already on a radio program this morning.

Sounds like business as usual for Illinois politics.

Have anything that's news?

I hear it's part of a larger probe that also involves the Rezko/Obama property purchase scandal.

And, in the details of the complaint it appears there is a "Washington Advisor B" who was pitching an Obama-favored "Candidate 1" in exchange for either an appointment or ambassadorship.

:corn:

[Viva Las Espuelas]

"a change is a comin'"

[clambake]

where'd you hear that?

[2centsworth]

speechless

[doobs]

The Audacity!

[clambake]

:lmao

these guys are toast.

[Wild Cobra]

where'd you hear that?
On the Mike Gallagher Show (http://mikegallagher.townhall.com/). He's on from 6AM to 9 AM here. He's been breaking the news as it unfolds since beginning of his show.

[clambake]

On the Mike Gallagher Show (http://mikegallagher.townhall.com/). He's on from 6AM to 9 AM here. He's been breaking the news as it unfolds since beginning of his show.

yeah, what did he say about resko's involvement?

[balli]

But I thought Patrick Fitzgerald was only a tool for the Democrats and their CIA witch-hunt?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He must have not gone along with who Obama wanted...

[balli]

He must have not gone along with who Obama wanted... Or just Obama


The tapes reveal a two-term governor who no longer wants his job, badly wants cash and is determined to leverage a financial benefit out of his appointment powers.


He also appears to think little of the president-elect, whom he calls a "motherf***er" at one point.

"F**k him," Blagjoveich says of Obama during a lengthy call with top aides and his wife recorded on November 10th, "For nothing? F**k him."

[balli]

This raises an interesting question. If Blagjoveich isn't tried, convicted and removed from office by the time a Senate appt. needs to be made, technically, is the choice still his to make? And if not, who's choice does it become?

[MannyIsGod]

Wow

[Oh, Gee!!]

It's from Wikipedia, so judge it accordingly:

Approval ratings
Polling completed on October 13, 2008 put Blagojevich's approval rating among Illinois voters at 4%. Blagojevich ranks as “Least Popular Governor” in the nation according to Rasmussen Reports By the Numbers.

On October 23, 2008, the Chicago Tribune reported that Blagojevich suffered the lowest ratings ever recorded for an elected politician in nearly three decades of Chicago Tribune polls. The survey of 500 registered likely voters conducted showed that 10 percent wanted Blagojevich re-elected in 2010, while three-fourths said they didn't want him back for a third term. The survey also showed only 13% approved of Blagojevich's performance, while 71% disapproved. Only eight percent of the state's voters believe Blagojevich has lived up to his promise to end corruption in government. 60% of Democrats did not want him to serve another term in office, and 54% disapproved of the job he had done. Among independent voters, 83% disapproved of his performance and 85% of them rejected a Blagojevich third term. Blagojevich said in October 2008 that if he were running for re-election this year, he would win, and the economy, not his federal investigations, had caused his unpopularity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich

[FromWayDowntown]

This raises an interesting question. If Blagjoveich isn't tried, convicted and removed from office by the time a Senate appt. needs to be made, technically, is the choice still his to make? And if not, who's choice does it become?

If he's still governor, he'll make the appointment. If he's not governor, his successor in the office, the Lt. Gov. of the state, will make the appointment. I wouldn't expect the current governor to last much longer in that post, and I'd expect that the Democratic Lt. Gov. of Illinois will ultimately appoint Senator Obama's successor.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

You know, if was Dubya I'd just say, "Fuck it. History is going to remember me for worse things anyways," and offer him a presidential pardon to put a Republican in the seat. Something tells me this guy's party loyalty is probably not as strong as his desire to not go to federal PMITA prison.

[balli]

If he's still governor, he'll make the appointment. If he's not governor, his successor in the office, the Lt. Gov. of the state, will make the appointment. I wouldn't expect the current governor to last much longer in that post, and I'd expect that the Democratic Lt. Gov. of Illinois will ultimately appoint Senator Obama's successor.
There is no way they are going to let him or his Lt. make the pick. They're on this shit like white on rice.

WASHINGTON — Democratic leaders in Washington and Illinois urged the Illinois Legislature on Tuesday to quickly schedule a special election to fill President-elect Barack Obama's vacant Senate seat rather than leave that power in Gov. Rod Blagojevich's hands.

Blagojevich, a second-term Democrat, was arrested Tuesday by the FBI which alleged he sought favors to influence his choice for Obama's replacement.

Illinois Senate President Emil Jones, who called the charges shocking, said he would soon call the chamber into session to pass a bill to establish a special election to fill the vacancy. He did so moments after Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., urged the state House and Senate to take the same step, and do so by a margin that could withstand a Blagojevich veto.

"No appointment by this governor, under these circumstances, could produce a credible replacement," Durbin, told reporters in Washington.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., made similar remarks, and called for a process to fill the vacancy that does not involve Blagojevich. The charges against the governor, Reid said, "are appalling and represent as serious a breach of the public trust as I have ever heard."

Durbin, the Senate's second-ranking Democratic leader, said his state faces a messy and uncertain future with Blagojevich holding the power to name someone to finish the last two years of Obama's term.

Special elections are costly, Durbin acknowledged, but it might be coupled with a special election that will be needed to replace Rep. Rahm Emanuel. The Chicago Democrat will resign his seat soon to become Obama's White House chief of staff.

The Constitution requires House vacancies to be filled by elections. Senate vacancies can be filled by appointment, and Illinois, like most states, gives the power to the governor.

Blagojevich must be presumed innocent until proven guilty, Durbin said, but if the charges against him are true, "he has clearly abused the public trust." He did not call for the governor to resign, citing the innocence presumption.

However, U.S. Rep. Jan Schakowsky, D-Ill., said the legislature should begin impeachment proceedings if Blagojevich does not resign promptly.

Durbin said his relationship with the governor has been cordial but not close. Blagojevich waited 12 days to return Durbin's recent phone call requesting a discussion of the Obama vacancy, Durbin said. The two men discussed about 20 possible replacements, Durbin said, and Blagojevich made no hint that he was seeking payments or other favors in making his choice.

Durbin said Blagojevich's arrest should not cast a shadow over Obama's inauguration and early days as president because there was nothing improper in their relationship.

Durbin said he worried that Obama's former seat could remain vacant for months. With Senate Democrats only a few votes short of a filibuster-proof majority in the new Congress that will convene next month, a vacancy could make it harder to pass Obama-backed measures "during a critical period in American history," Durbin said.

The Senate could refuse to seat a person appointed by Blagojevich. Several would-be senators have been rejected that way, usually when their election was corrupted or deeply in question. The last appointed person to be refused a seat came from Alabama in 1913, when the Senate concluded the state legislature had not given the governor the power to fill a vacancy, said Senate associate historian Don Ritchie.

[doobs]

Senator Ditka

[jack sommerset]

Is this the first time a Governer has been arrested?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

is this the first time a president-elect is involved in a scandal before getting into the white house?

[ChumpDumper]

How do you claim Obama is involved?

[MannyIsGod]

is this the first time a president-elect is involved in a scandal before getting into the white house?

Wow you're using involved incredibly loosely.

[balli]

is this the first time a president-elect is involved in a scandal before getting into the white house?
uhhhhhh... wow. :bang:bang:bang

[Yonivore]

Wow you're using involved incredibly loosely.

Obama Says He Had No Contact With Blagojevich on Senate Seat (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aOLuFlwkoGRs&refer=worldwide)

Questions Arise About the Obama/Blagojevich Relationship (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/12/questions-arise.html)


Asked what contact he'd had with the governor's office about his replacement in the Senate, President-elect Obama today said "I had no contact with the governor or his office and so we were not, I was not aware of what was happening."

But on November 23, 2008, his senior adviser David Axelrod appeared on Fox News Chicago and said something quite different.

While insisting that the President-elect had not expressed a favorite to replace him, and his inclination was to avoid being a "kingmaker," Axelrod said, "I know he's talked to the governor and there are a whole range of names many of which have surfaced, and I think he has a fondness for a lot of them."
Liar, liar pants on fire.

:corn:

[balli]

Liar, liar pants on fire.


again,


The tapes reveal a two-term governor who no longer wants his job, badly wants cash and is determined to leverage a financial benefit out of his appointment powers.


He also appears to think little of the president-elect, whom he calls a "motherf***er" at one point.

"F**k him," Blagjoveich says of Obama during a lengthy call with top aides and his wife recorded on November 10th, "For nothing? F**k him."

Yeah sounds like they were just the best of chums. :rolleyes

And pay attention to the "for nothing" part. If anything that's probably part of a complete exoneration of Obama, resulting from the casework itself.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

How do you claim Obama is involved?
read the criminal complaint

[ChumpDumper]

read the criminal complaintNah, you tell me how Obama is involved.

Use your words.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Nah, you tell me how Obama is involved.

Use your words.
eh. sorry i don't have a clean spoon for you. you're out of luck.

[ChumpDumper]

eh. sorry i don't have a clean spoon for you. you're out of luck.So you really can't explain yourself.

Not a surprise at all.

[Yonivore]

again,



Yeah sounds like they were just the best of chums. :rolleyes

And pay attention to the "for nothing" part. If anything that's a complete exoneration of Obama, apparent in the casework itself.
Didn't Jesse Jackson want to rip his balls off?

Politics make strange bedfellows and all that.

KATIE GRANJU (http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/granju/2008/12/note-to-presidentelect-obama-j.html): Note to President-Elect Obama: just tell the truth. “No more lies, please, Mr. President-Elect. Come clean on whatever your dealings have been with Blagojevich in this matter, and let’s put it behind us and move on.”

Time is already calling this BlagoGate (http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2008/12/09/blagogate-obamas-burden/).

:corn:

[ChumpDumper]

This isn't going to do anything to Obama.

[clambake]

the only reason obama ran for president is so he could make a few grand on selling his senate seat.

[balli]

Yeah, you're going to have to do better than one out of context sentence, twisted around around by some neo-con shithole of a blog if you want to make the case Obama was even remotely involved in this.

[SnakeBoy]

read the criminal complaint

As much as I would enjoy watching Obama and the dems go down in flames before he even takes office Obama looks clean as a whistle on this one. The tape of the governor saying fuck Obama because he only offers appreciation if he picks Obama's choice pretty much clears Obama.

[Yonivore]

Yeah, you're going to have to do better than one out of context sentence, twisted around around by some neo-con shithole of a blog if you want to make the case Obama was even remotely involved in this.
Bloomberg, ABC News, and Time?

[Yonivore]

As much as I would enjoy watching Obama and the dems go down in flames before he even takes office Obama looks clean as a whistle on this one. The tape of the governor saying fuck Obama because he only offers appreciation if he picks Obama's choice pretty much clears Obama.
Well, that kind of makes it appear Obama knew Blogo was shopping the seat around and wouldn't play. Did he report the crime? Why'd he lie?

[clambake]

As much as I would enjoy watching Obama and the dems go down in flames before he even takes office Obama looks clean as a whistle on this one. The tape of the governor saying fuck Obama because he only offers appreciation if he picks Obama's choice pretty much clears Obama.

don't crush yoni's dreams.

[Yonivore]

don't crush yoni's dreams.
Make it about me if that helps.

[ChumpDumper]

Chances are pretty good Obama was briefed on the investigation soon after the election.

[balli]

Yoni seriously thinks Obama risked his entire presidency so that the outgoing Governor of IL could make some relatively minute scratch... Pfffffff. Fuckin' clown ass Yoni.

[MannyIsGod]

Lol

[Yonivore]

Yoni seriously thinks Obama risked his entire presidency so that the outgoing Governor of IL could make some relatively minute scratch... Pfffffff. Fuckin' clown ass Yoni.
Or, he just thought it would be Chicago politics as usual.

[ChumpDumper]

Tell us what crime Obama committed, Yoni.

[clambake]

so what is his involvement, yoni? you're up to 3 scenarios so far. do you have more?

[TheProfessor]

As much as I would enjoy watching Obama and the dems go down in flames before he even takes office Obama looks clean as a whistle on this one. The tape of the governor saying fuck Obama because he only offers appreciation if he picks Obama's choice pretty much clears Obama.
Agreed. Though it could become part of a larger narrative down the road if these little scandals keep popping up.

[Yonivore]

so what is his involvement, yoni? you're up to 3 scenarios so far. do you have more?
I have no idea but, I suspect the media will be as incurious as you.

When there's a hot story, the media usually likes to pile on with background pieces, context pieces, related pieces. This is flood-the-zone type coverage as former NYT editor Howell Raines dubbed it. And the media likes doing this coverage... so long as it's not harming The Cause.

In arguments between liberals and conservatives on media bias, liberals will often point out "But the media did cover that particular story!" Yes, there is usually a short article out there, failing to note the Democratic wrong-doer's partisan affiliation. But there is no flood-the-zone. There are no background pieces, context pieces, related pieces. Some follow-up, but no pile-on. Not when a Democrat has been caught dirty.

If there were going to be flood-the-zone coverage of the corrupt Chicago machine, some background as to how it operates and how breathtakingly blatant corruption is viewed as normal business practices by pols and citizens, what sorts of stories would we see?

Well, in this Bizarro universe I'm hypothesizing, we might see some fresh mention of this story (http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=OGRiMWFhNWY4MTgzMjI3NjEzNGQwMWFiMTlhYmRhN2Y=):


Dan Riehl notes, via Amanda Carpenter, that in the list of earmarks he requested, $1 million was requested for the construction of a new hospital pavilion at the University Of Chicago. The request was put in in 2006.
You know who works for the University of Chicago Hospital?

Michelle Obama. She's vice president of community affairs.

As Byron noted, "In 2006, the Chicago Tribune reported that Mrs. Obama’s compensation at the University of Chicago Hospital, where she is a vice president for community affairs, jumped from $121,910 in 2004, just before her husband was elected to the Senate, to $316,962 in 2005, just after he took office."

Looks like that raise was worth it.

But the media is not going to offer context in this case.

What context do you need to explain One Man's Crime?

Blago did something bad. That's it. There's no more context to explain, no political culture which requires further elaboration.

The story begins and ends with Blago himself. There is no point in expending all those journalistic resources to story which is simply about a single man's failings.

Nothing to see here, folks. MoveOn.org.

[ChumpDumper]

I have no idea

[balli]

Politics make strange bedfellows and all that.

Just to rip apart your... argument (?) even further... WTF makes you think Obama has any use for a washed up, soon to be retired governor, with the lowest approval rating out of any politician in America? Do you think politics is the art of currying favor among people who you have absolutely no use for and who bring you no benefits of any kind? This inconsequential and corrupt motherfucker wasn't shit to Barack Obama.

[Yonivore]

Just to rip apart your... argument (?) even further... WTF makes you think Obama has any use for a washed up, soon to be retired governor, with the lowest approval rating out of any politician in America? Do you think politics is the art of currying favor among people who you have absolutely no use for and who bring you no benefits of any kind? This inconsequential and corrupt motherfucker wasn't shit to Barack Obama.
You're taking this awfully personal, aren't you? This story is not even a day old yet...and, it's part of a larger corrpution investigation involving, among other things, the Rezko/Obama property purchase.

But, to answer your question, "WTF makes you think Obama has any use for a washed up, soon to be retired governor, with the lowest approval rating out of any politician in America?"

I suspect Blogojevich knows about a lot of skeletons in Chicago Democratic closets.

But, hey, I'm willing to wait and see if anything develops. Don't hate me because I find this entertaining.

My question for you. Why did Obama lie today? Or, if he didn't lie today; why did his spokesman lie on November 23rd? Does anyone believe the President-elect wouldn't have conversations with a Democrat Governor over who his replacement would be?

Calm down and let's see what happens.

[ChumpDumper]

You're taking this awfully personal, aren't you? This story is not even a day old yet...and, it's part of a larger corrpution investigation involving, among other things, the Rezko/Obama property purchase.Please show us the connections between the case against the governor and the alleged investigation concerning Obama's property.

[clambake]

Please show us the connections between the case against the governor and the alleged investigation concerning Obama's property.


find it yourself douchebag. i'm only here to make allegations.

[Yonivore]

My bad, it's a separate investigation. Sue me.

[clambake]

My bad, it's a separate investigation. Sue me.

:depressed i'm sorry to hear that, yoni. are you sure there's no way to connect the two?

[Yonivore]

Magic Bus. Beep beep! (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/09/obama-i-never-talked-to-blagojevich-about-the-senate-seat-axelrod-yes-he-did/)

Obama's getting pretty good at denying any contact whatsoever with people known to be close associates.

Flashback: Among his many sudden "I don't even know that guy" claims-- Franklin Raines. And fellow communist Mike Klonsky.

Note that Raines is similar to this new claim-- Raines self-reported being an advisor to Obama on economics, the Washington Post reported it and then reported it again. Team Obama did not ask for a correction.

Until Franklin Raines was linked to Fannie Mae and became a liability. At that point, the famously media-patrolling Obama machine objected that Raines original claim, and the Washington Post's two reports, were faulty.

In this case, Axelrod's statement has been on the record for, what, two and half weeks now. Why is Team Obama only now realizing he "misspoke" after 17 days?

Might it be -- see if you can follow me on this; it gets a little complicated -- that Axelrod didn't misspeak at all, and hence no correction, until now, when Blago's arrested, and it suddenly becomes important to claim Axelrod misspoke?

I know that's crazy-talk. Just throwing it out there.

Obama and Blago's Connections:


Obama Advised Blagojevich On His Victorious Gubernatorial Run. “That year, [Obama] gained his first high-level experience in a statewide campaign when he advised the victorious gubernatorial candidate Rod Blagojevich, another politician with a funny name and a message of reform.” (Ryan Lizza, “Making It,” The New Yorker, 7/21/08)

Obama: “If the governor asks me to work on his behalf, I’ll be happy to do it.” (John Patterson, “Senator Says He’s Still Willing To Help Blagojevich Despite Hiring Concerns,” Chicago Daily Herald, 7/27/06)


Obama Endorsed Blagojevich For A Second Term. “Obama, who endorsed Blagojevich for a second term nearly 18 months ago, said he’s ready to help Illinois democrats in the upcoming elections.” (John Patterson, “Senator Says He’s Still Willing To Help Blagojevich Despite Hiring Concerns,” Chicago Daily Herald, 7/27/06)


Obama: “We’ve got a governor in Rod Blagojevich who has delivered consistently on behalf of the people of Illinois.” (Deanna Bellandi, “Illinois Democrats Talk Unity But Don’t Show It,” The Associated Press, 8/16/06)

[Yonivore]

:depressed i'm sorry to hear that, yoni. are you sure there's no way to connect the two?
None that I know of, yet.

[ChumpDumper]

Surely this will keep Obama from being elected a month ago.

[Anti.Hero]

1 down 540546456456464 political officials to go.

[balli]

There's mad rumblings starting out of Chicago that Rahm Emmanuel (Obama's Chief of Staff) was the whistleblower that started this whole investigation.

[Yonivore]

There's mad rumblings starting out of Chicago that Rahm Emmanuel (Obama's Chief of Staff) was the whistleblower that started this whole investigation.
I question the timing. :corn:

[Oh, Gee!!]

Yoni is turning into Ducks

[Yonivore]

Yoni is turning into Ducks

:corn: Nice addition to the discussion :corn:

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081209/capt.5ef8bb68e6ed45ceb4556eeebd488369.obama_ilcd10 8.jpg?x=225&y=345&q=85&sig=V3aTxd5DsDXJQ0xCjwc6Yw--
What did I know and when did I know it?

[Yonivore]

Axelrod "misspeaking"

konL35ur0Bo

:corn: :corn:

Look, Obama has been a loyal soldier in the Democrats' corrupt Cook County machine. Obama's first statewide campaign was as an adviser to Blagojevich. He endorsed Blagojevich for re-election and offered to campaign for him. In August 2006, the Associated Press quoted Obama saying, "We've got a governor in Rod Blagojevich who has delivered consistently on behalf of the people of Illinois."

No doubt Obama would now say -- for the umpteenth time -- that the Rod Blagojevich who tried to sell his vacant Senate seat "isn't the Rod Blagojevich I knew." Maybe it's time to take notice of the fact that Barack Obama is either 1) an astonishingly poor judge of character, or 2) a politician who swims comfortably and successfully in what must be America's most corrupt and vile cesspool of politics.

This is, apparently, the "change" that millions of Americans voted for.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Okay, y'all Dems have to admit, the whole 'misspoke' thing is pretty funny.

What more than likely happened is like ballijuana said and someone like Rahm nailed this guy's ass when he wouldn't play ball with Team Obama.

It will all get swept under the rug though, after all, Axelrod just 'misspoke'.

[balli]

You are an idiot Yoni.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/us/politics/10chicago.html?_r=1&hp


Obama’s Intervention Indirectly Led to Case
In a sequence of events that neatly captures the contradictions of Barack Obama's rise through Illinois politics, a phone call he made three months ago to urge passage of a state ethics bill indirectly contributed to the downfall of a fellow Democrat he twice supported, Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich.

Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was a critic of the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of money in politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it. But after the call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the veto, prompting the governor to press state contractors for campaign contributions before the law's restrictions could take effect on Jan. 1, prosecutors say.

Tipped off to Mr. Blagojevich's efforts, federal agents obtained wiretaps for his phones and eventually overheard what they say was scheming by the governor to profit from his appointment of a successor to the United States Senate seat being vacated by President-elect Obama. One official whose name has long been mentioned in Chicago political circles as a potential successor is Mr. Jones, a machine politician who was viewed as a roadblock to ethics reform but is friendly with Mr. Obama.

[Yonivore]

You are an idiot Yoni.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/us/politics/10chicago.html?_r=1&hp

I think Jones is going to be "Candidate 5" In up to his neck.

This is far from over.

I bet he gets thrown under the bus, as well...

Staying tuned. :corn:

[George Gervin's Afro]

Is the first 'I'm going to get Obama anyway I can' investigations? Yoni is still playing the gotcha game. So I guess if Obama had actually recieved a congratulatoy call from Blogeivahsdgrn on his win then Obama would actually be lieing because he did in fact talk to the Gov.'s office..:rolleyes After he just said he had no contact with him... How long will whannity whore this story?

[RandomGuy]

Is the first 'I'm going to get Obama anyway I can' investigations? Yoni is still playing the gotcha game. So I guess if Obama had actually recieved a congratulatoy call from Blogeivahsdgrn on his win then Obama would actually be lieing because he did in fact talk to the Gov.'s office..:rolleyes After he just said he had no contact with him... How long will whannity whore this story?

Anybody with any common sense knows that the whackoid right will play this up for all it is worth. It is their turn to drag a Democratic president down as far as they can after having to put up with the same with Bush for 8 years. They are drooling over the possibility.

Somehow though, I doubt we will ever see a former horse show judge in charge of FEMA in the Obama administration, so it looks like they will have their work cut out for them.

I, for one, will be part of the "either support our president or get the f*** out crowd", because the irony of saying that to the whackoid right is just too delicious for me to pass up. I am weak that way.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Analysis: Scandal threatens to dog Obama

By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer Liz Sidoti, Associated Press Writer – 2 hrs 32 mins ago
Featured Topics:


WASHINGTON – President-elect Barack Obama hasn't even stepped into office and already a scandal is threatening to dog him.
Obama isn't accused of anything. But the fact that Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, a fellow Democrat, has been charged with trying to sell Obama's now-vacant Senate post gives political opponents an opening to try to link him to the scandal. A slew of questions remain. The investigation is still under way. And the ultimate impact on Obama is far from certain.
He pointedly distanced himself from the case Tuesday, saying, "I had no contact with the governor or his office, and so I was not aware of what was happening" concerning any possible dealing about Blagojevich's appointment of a successor.
In Chicago, U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald said prosecutors were making no allegations that Obama was aware of any scheming. And Blagojevich himself, in taped conversations cited by prosecutors, suggested that Obama wouldn't be helpful to him. Even if the governor was to appoint a candidate favored by the Obama team, Blagojevich said, "they're not willing to give me anything except appreciation."
Republicans pounced nonetheless.
"The serious nature of the crimes listed by federal prosecutors raises questions about the interaction with Gov. Blagojevich, President-elect Obama and other high ranking officials who will be working for the future president," said Rep. Eric Cantor of Virginia, the new GOP House whip.
Added Robert M. "Mike" Duncan, chairman of the Republican National Committee, "President-elect Barack Obama's comments on the matter are insufficient at best."
Robert Gibbs, an Obama spokesman, said, "We did not know about this recent part of the investigation until today."
The two Illinois politicians have never been especially close and have largely operated in different Democratic Party camps in the state. Blagojevich's disdain for Obama was clear in court documents; he is quoted as calling the president-elect a vulgar term in one phone conversation recorded by the FBI.
Despite all that, at the very least, the episode amounts to a distraction for Obama just six weeks before he's sworn into office while he works to set up his new administration and deal with a national economic crisis. It also raises the specter of notorious Chicago politics, an image Obama has tried to distance himself from during his career.
In court documents, FBI Special Agent Daniel Cain detailed several phone calls between Blagojevich and his aides that were intercepted on court-authorized wiretaps over the past month. Blagojevich is accused of conspiring to sell or trade the vacant Senate seat for personal benefits for himself and his wife, Patti. Among his alleged desires: a Cabinet post, placement at a private foundation in a significant position, campaign contributions or an ambassadorship.

There were signs the continuing investigation could still involve Obama.

It appears that Obama friend Valerie Jarrett, an incoming senior White House adviser, is the person referred to repeatedly in court documents as "Candidate 1." That individual is described as a woman who is "an adviser to the president-elect" and as the person Obama wanted appointed to the Senate seat. Court papers say that Candidate 1 eventually removed herself from consideration for the Senate seat.
Blagojevich talked at length about Candidate 1 in a Nov. 11 phone conversation with an aide.
One day later, Jarrett, a Chicago businesswoman who is one of three co-chairmen of Obama's transition team and was a high-level adviser to his presidential campaign, made it known that she was not interested in the seat. On Nov. 15, Obama announced that Jarrett would be a senior White House adviser and assistant for intergovernmental relations.
Obama's circle of major Illinois political allies and supporters is largely separate from Blagojevich's, with two major exceptions. Both Obama and Blagojevich got extensive money and support from Chicago businessman Antoin "Tony" Rezko, who is awaiting sentencing after being convicted in June on charges of using clout with Blagojevich's administration to help launch a $7 million kickback scheme. And Obama is close to Illinois Senate President Emil Jones, who has been the governor's staunchest legislative ally.
At least one top aide to Obama, Michael Strautmanis, previously worked for Blagojevich. Obama has appointed Strautmanis to serve as White House chief of staff to the presidential assistant for intergovernmental relations and public liaison. The Chicago native was legislative director and counsel to Blagojevich when the governor was a member of Congress and then helped Blagojevich win the governorship in 2002. There is no indication that Strautmanis is involved in the case.
More details on the case could be forthcoming.
Court documents say they don't include all calls dealing with the governor's efforts regarding the Senate appointment. And many people in the documents are referred to by aliases; there's little doubt their identities will eventually surface.

[Yonivore]

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

I stocked up last night!

[George Gervin's Afro]

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

I stocked up last night!

I'm glad to see your supporting your President elect.

[Yonivore]

I'm glad to see your supporting your President elect.

He's not that until December 18. And, if he's dirty, I'd like for it to be discovered before then. Otherwise, we're probably in for another 4 or 8 years of Whitewateresque crap.

[George Gervin's Afro]

He's not that until December 18. And, if he's dirty, I'd like for it to be discovered before then. Otherwise, we're probably in for another 4 or 8 years of Whitewateresque crap.

For some reason I am anticipating thatYoni and his ilk will be on an 8 yr fishing expedition...

[Yonivore]

For some reason I am anticipating thatYoni and his ilk will be on an 8 yr fishing expedition...
The fishing may be good and the pond seems shallow.

[Oh, Gee!!]

so..........how is Obama guilty of any misdeeds?

[Yonivore]

so..........how is Obama guilty of any misdeeds?I don't know that he is but, y'all's insistence that we just leave him alone is laughable in the early stages of what appears to be a legitimate investigation into the cesspool of Chicago politics.

A cesspool Obama has been swimming in for his entire political life.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I don't know that he is

end thread. I win.

[Yonivore]

Tell me this. If Obama is somehow involved in a crime, would you want it discovered now or after he's inaugurated?

Because, if it's after he's inaugurated, you're in for a long four years.

[Yonivore]

end thread. I win.
Really? What'd you win?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Tell me this. If Obama is somehow involved in a crime, would you want it discovered now or after he's inaugurated?

Because, if it's after he's inaugurated, you're in for a long four years.

What crime?

Something tells me that you will never let this go. Obama has said he had nothing to do with it so at this point that's all we have to go on. Anyone who is truly trying to get to the truth would have to wonder what his motive would be? Obama is about to President yet somehow the right wingers want us to believe that Obama was involved in something illegal. What would Obama's motive be to get involved with picking his successor?

[Yonivore]

What crime?

Something tells me that you will never let this go. Obama has said he had nothing to do with it so at this point that's all we have to go on. Anyone who is truly trying to get to the truth would have to wonder what his motive would be? Obama is about to President yet somehow the right wingers want us to believe that Obama was involved in something illegal. What would Obama's motive be to get involved with picking his successor?
I guess we'll have to wait an see.

:corn: :corn: :corn:

[Oh, Gee!!]

Really? What'd you win?

the point. i win the point.

[Yonivore]

the point. i win the point.
Well, goodie for you. So, if it turns out Obama is involved somehow, do you have to give up the trophy?

[ChumpDumper]

Too bad for Yoni there is nothing here to pin on Obama.

Fox News' reporting that his chief of staff designate narced this guy out is pretty interesting.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Well, goodie for you. So, if it turns out Obama is involved somehow, do you have to give up the trophy?

I'll buy you a Pepsi.

[Yonivore]

I'll buy you a Pepsi.
Thanks!

[Viva Las Espuelas]

i don't think obama personally is involved, but someone on his team. either way, someone is going to sing like a boid(bird).

[Oh, Gee!!]

i don't think obama personally is involved, but someone on his team. either way, someone is going to sing like a boid(bird).

and what did someone on his team do?

[Yonivore]

Ruh Roh!

Ill. governor meeting with Obama today (http://www.connecttristates.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=217582)



Wednesday, November 05, 2008 at 10:39 a.m.


CHICAGO, ILL. -- Now that Barack Obama will be moving to the White House, his seat in the U.S. Senate representing Illinois will have to be filled.

That's one of Obama's first priorities today.

He's meeting with Governor Rod Blagojevich this afternoon in Chicago to discuss it.

Illinois law states that the governor chooses that replacement.

There's already been speculation about his selection...from Congressman Jesse Jackson, Jr. of Chicago's south side who co-chaired Obama's presidential campaign, to recently-retired state senate president Emil Jones, to the governor himself.

It's likely the governor will make his decision quickly so the new senator will get some seniority before newly-elected senators take office in January.

Part of the timing depends on when Obama officially vacates his senate seat.

KHQA's Alexis Hunt is speaking with Illinois Senator John Sullivan today about his thoughts on that replacement process, his time working with Obama in the state senate, and if there's a chance Sullivan might play a role in the Obama administration. Watch KHQA News at 5:00, 6:00 and 10:00 p.m. tonight to hear what he has to say.
Did that meeting not happen? Did KHQA misspeak?

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[doobs]

It's funny. Obama detractors are foaming at the mouth, insisting that Obama be thoroughly investigated and caught in a lie. The fact that this guy is a Democrat and an elected official in Illinois, coupled with the issue of Obama's vacant Senate seat, is enough for Obama's detractors to label him a snake.

Obama supporters are acting like their chosen one is simply above it all, and no controversy--whether it's Ayers, Wright, Rezko, or Blog-whatever-his-name-is--will change their minds. They seem to think Obama somehow managed to rise to the top of Illinois politics through honesty, intelligence, hard work, and responsibility. As if Saint Obama made it in spite of Illinois' dirty politics.

Obama is not a snake, and he's not a saint. He's just a damn dirty politician. Get over it. America elected a damn dirty politician who will lie, "triangulate", hedge, bend, and say just about anything to get elected. In all likelihood, he's probably just a shade less creepy and corrupt than the Clintons. There are worse things.

[ChumpDumper]

Too bad for Yoni Blagojevich is on tape saying Obama wasn't going to give him anything.

It's fun watching him get so wound up. It will be even better when his great hopes for a governmental crisis come to naught.

:corn::corn::corn::corn:

[Anti.Hero]

http://www.drudgereport.com/rl.jpg

[Yonivore]

It's funny. Obama detractors are foaming at the mouth, insisting that Obama be thoroughly investigated and caught in a lie. The fact that this guy is a Democrat and an elected official in Illinois, coupled with the issue of Obama's vacant Senate seat, is enough for Obama's detractors to label him a snake.
Sad commentary on Chicago politics, ain't it?

I'm not foaming at the mouth insisting anything. I'm perfectly willing to wait and see what the investigation turns up. Is is wrong for me to suspect Obama is involved in something? I think I'm entitled to my opinion.


Obama supporters are acting like their chosen one is simply above it all, and no controversy--whether it's Ayers, Wright, Rezko, or Blog-whatever-his-name-is--will change their minds. They seem to think Obama somehow managed to rise to the top of Illinois politics through honesty, intelligence, and responsibility. As if Saint Obama made it in spite of Illinois' dirty politics.
Nice call doobs; and I'm accused of being in the tank for Bush.


Obama is not a snake, and he's not a saint.
I don't think you, me, or anyone else on this board can make that claim. We don't know anything about the guy except what's been reported.


He's just a damn dirty politician.
Define dirty. Criminal dirty?


Get over it. America elected a damn dirty politician who will lie, "triangulate", hedge, bend, and say just about anything to get elected. In all likelihood, he's probably just a shade less creepy and corrupt than the Clintons. There are worse things.
If we keep accepting politics as usual, we'll keep getting politics as usual.

I think there's a chance he's less creepy, but more sinister, than the Clintons ever hoped to be.

[ChumpDumper]

Really Yoni.

Put your cards on the table.

Tell us what you think Obama's involvement is here.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Too bad for Yoni Blagojevich is on tape saying Obama wasn't going to give him anything.

hmm. so how did he know that he wasn't going to get anything? did he just think this up? you know kinda like you saying that

Chances are pretty good Obama was briefed on the investigation soon after the election.
did he get it from your source?

[balli]

hmm. so how did he know that he wasn't going to get anything? did he just think this up? you know kinda like you saying that
I suggest you review the thread.

[Yonivore]

hmm. so how did he know that he wasn't going to get anything? did he just think this up? you know kinda like you saying that
Not only that, he was pissed about it which tells me that someone on Obama's staff was at least in some conversation with Blogojevich on the matter. No?


did he get it from your source?
Really! Who would be stupid enough to brief Obama on an investigation that could conceivably involve him or his staff.

I do believe him when he says he didn't know anything about the investigation until Blogojevich was arrested. That, I do believe.

[ChumpDumper]

hmm. so how did he know that he wasn't going to get anything? did he just think this up? you know kinda like you saying thatHe said it. It's entirely plausible that the governor asked one of Obama's people about a payoff and it didn't even get to Obama himself.


did he get it from your source?I have no sources except Blagojevich's words. I am as free to speculate on them as you are so anxious to.

Now you tell me what you think Obama's involvement is.

[ChumpDumper]

Not only that, he was pissed about it which tells me that someone on Obama's staff was at least in some conversation with Blogojevich on the matter. No?I wouldn't doubt it. It's probably how the whole investigation got started.



Really! Who would be stupid enough to brief Obama on an investigation that could conceivably involve him or his staff.If Obama and his staff initiated the investigation, it makes perfect sense. It's possible that if the Emanuel initiated it, Obama might not be involved in any way at all. That would really suck for you, wouldn't it?


I do believe him when he says he didn't know anything about the investigation until Blogojevich was arrested. That, I do believe.Cherry picking what you believe is your specialty.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

He said it. It's entirely plausible that the governor asked one of Obama's people about a payoff and it didn't even get to Obama himself.


i don't think obama personally is involved, but someone on his team. either way, someone is going to sing like a boid(bird).




I have no sources except Blagojevich's words. I am as free to speculate on them as you are so anxious to.so you can speculate and i'm simply anxious. i see.



Now you tell me what you think Obama's involvement is.



i don't think obama personally is involved, but someone on his team. either way, someone is going to sing like a boid(bird).

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Really! Who would be stupid enough to brief Obama on an investigation that could conceivably involve him or his staff.chump has that inside scoop.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

it may be just a big case of good ol' chicago misspokedness



:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

chump has that inside scoop.I gave a possible scenario. You guys sure get butthurt when the speculation doesn't reflect your dreams of chaos in the United States government.

[Yonivore]

chump has that inside scoop.
Chump has a scoop alright.

So, did Obama meet with Blogojevich on November 5th or not?

Did Axelrod misspeak or not?

Did Obama lie yesterday or not?

Inquiring minds want to know.

:corn: :corn: :corn:

[ChumpDumper]

Chump has a scoop alright.

So, did Obama meet with Blogojevich on November 5th or not?

Did Axelrod misspeak or not?

Did Obama lie yesterday or not?

Inquiring minds want to know.

:corn: :corn: :corn:I don't have Obama's itinerary. I'm sure that would have been easy enough fo Fitzgerald to check were it relevant. Doesn't look like it is.

It's clear that Obama wasn't going to give Blogojevich anything, so it matters little.

Now Yoni, what do you personally think Obama's involvement is.

No cop outs.

Rational minds want to know.

:corn: :corn: :corn:

[Oh, Gee!!]

Ruh Roh!
Did that meeting not happen? Did KHQA misspeak?


and if the meeting happened, Obama is guilty of what?

[Yonivore]

and if the meeting happened, Obama is guilty of what?
Well, did he not say -- just yesterday -- that he had not spoken to the Governor about his vacant seat?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I gave a possible scenario. You guys sure get butthurt when the speculation doesn't reflect your dreams of chaos in the United States government.
you give a scenario and i'm butt hurt. i see.

...and chaos in the united states government? senate seats are being sold. we're about to nationalize the auto industry...........................

[Oh, Gee!!]

Well, did he not say -- just yesterday -- that he had not spoken to the Governor about his vacant seat?

so he's guilty of lying to the press? or is he guilty of failing to keep his appointment with the governor? impeach now!!! great point, neoducks.

[ChumpDumper]

you give a scenario and i'm butt hurt. i see.

...and chaos in the united states government? senate seats are being sold. we're about to nationalize the auto industry...........................Except senate seats aren't being sold (offered, but no takers that I have seen yet) and the auto industry isn't being nationalized.

[jack sommerset]

Illinois politics is corrupt PERIOD! Obama is a Illinois politician. 1 +1 = 2. I think this is the 3rd Governer arrested from the great state of Illinois. So far Obamas big splash since elected is a playoff for college football. Pathetic

:toast to America for a great choice for President!

[ChumpDumper]

i don't think obama personally is involved, but someone on his team. either way, someone is going to sing like a boid(bird).Sing like a bird about what?

[balli]

Illinois politics is corrupt PERIOD! Obama is a Illinois politician. 1 +1 = 2. I think this is the 3rd Governer arrested from the great state of Illinois. So far Obamas big splash since elected is a playoff for college football. Pathetic

:toast to America for a great choice for President!

That's the dumbest motherfucking thing I've ever heard. People from West TX and Oklahoma are dumb white trash PERIOD! You are from West Texas or Oklahoma 1+1=2, so you must be a fucking idiot piece of white trash.

[jack sommerset]

That's the dumbest motherfucking thing I've ever heard. People from West TX and Oklahoma are dumb white trash PERIOD! You are from West Texas or Oklahoma 1+1=2, so you must be a fucking idiot piece of white trash.

HAHAHA. I from New York...... Dumbest thing you ever heard. HAHAHAHAHAHA
I'll change teams again for the ignorant bigots like yourself. What a moron! Walk before you run little man.

"It's an ongoing investigation," Obama said. "I think it would be inappropriate for me to ... remark on the situation beyond the facts that I know."

He is our President. He knows the facts!

[balli]

I'll change teams again for the ignorant bigots like yourself.
Oh the irony... You do realize that I was just mocking what you originally wrote, son? It doesn't really matter where your from, nor do I care, you fucking fagbot. I was trying to point out that you are literally and ridiculously willing to indict Obama, based on sweepingly huge assumptions about a geographical location. And then you call me a bigot :rolleyes. Suck deez nuts you fucking ass clown.

[ChumpDumper]

"It's an ongoing investigation," Obama said. "I think it would be inappropriate for me to ... remark on the situation beyond the facts that I know."

He is our President. He knows the facts!Eh, that was a lawyer's response. Ultimately, it's probably a good idea to not say anything that might be cited by Blagojevich's lawyers as an undue influence on potential jurors.

[jack sommerset]

:loser
Oh the irony... You do realize that I was just mocking what you originally wrote, son? It doesn't really matter where your from, nor do I care, you fucking fagbot. I was trying to point out that you are literally and ridiculously willing to indict Obama, based on sweepingly huge assumptions about a geographical location. So, suck deez nuts you fucking ass clown.

BLAH BLAH BLAH. You my brother,son, dick breath are a :loser. Move along lil boy, move along! I am.

[Yonivore]

"so he's guilty of lying to the press?"
If so, why?


"...or is he guilty of failing to keep his appointment with the governor?
Did he? I don't know.


"impeach now!!! great point, neoducks.
Can't impeach him until he's in office. I think he's already resigned his Senate seat. Right now, he's Joe Citizen.

[ChumpDumper]

So Yoni's great hope is that Obama never takes office due to an arrest and conviction over federal corruption charges that will occur in less than a month.

:lol

[doobs]

Nothing has been established regarding Obama's involvement, one way or another. It's stupid for anyone to make accusations orto make the case for exonerating Obama. It's way too early.

Just because the Governor said "for nothing" and "fuck him" doesn't mean he wasn't presently involved in negotiations with Obama's people. Obviously, a rational person wants to get something for free, or for as cheaply as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if some kind of negotiation was still in the preliminary stages, and that some of Obama's people were just playing hard ball, flexing their muscles, awaiting the Governor's counter-offer. In that case, Obama could still be innocent.

At the same time, the mere fact that the Governor was improperly trying to get money in exchange for appointing Obama's replacement doesn't mean Obama or his people did anything wrong. They could have been clueless about it all--though I do think Obama's being dishonest about whether or not he's discussed his replacement with the Governor. But that kind of dishonesty is meaningless, really. That's why has someone like David Axelrod, to throw under the bus in these kinds of situations.

Presumably Obama knew before election day that his seat would have to be vacated if he won. So this is something the Governor and Obama had to have been thinking about for several months. Once it became clear that Obama was going to win the Democratic nomination, there should have been serious plans for appointing his replacement. So, at what point did the Governor start with his "show me the money" routine? Who knew about it and when? And when did they report it to the authorities? Who knew about the corrupting and didn't report it to the authorities? These are the important questions. Would I be surprised if there's bad behavior in Obama's camp? No. But I'll wait patiently for the results of the investigation.

[Yonivore]

This is directly from the criminal complaint: (PDF) (http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/pr/chicago/2008/pr1209_01a.pdf) that details several conversations caught on a federal wiretap:


The advisor asked ROD BLAGOJEVICH if the 501©(4) is a real effort or just a vehicle to help ROD BLAGOJEVICH. ROD BLAGOJEVICH stated that it is a real effort but also a place for ROD BLAGOJEVICH to go when he is no longer Governor. The advisor said he likes the Change to Win idea better, and notes that it is more likely to happen because it is one step removed from the President-elect.
"Change to Win" is a labor NGO that the governor was interested in heading up. In order to get that job, Blagojevich had to approach the head of the powerful Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Andy Stern. The Governor was willing to name a candidate who would be little more than a union toady in order to secure that position. And he was asking "Advisor B" (likely, Emanuel) to make it happen.


...according to Advisor B from the President-elect's perspective, there would be fewer "fingerprints" on the President-elect's involvement with Change to Win because Change to Win already has an existing stream of revenue and, therefore, "you won't have stories in four years that they bought you off."
There is speculation that "Advisor B" is Rahm Emanuel.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[ChumpDumper]

The wiretaps began on October 22.

Fitzgerald said there is no evidence Obama was aware of anything that was going on.

[balli]

Would I be surprised if there's bad behavior in Obama's camp? No. But I'll wait patiently for the results of the investigation.
What investigation? Obama's not being investigated for anything. And in the Blagojevich investigation the lead prosecutor has already said that the investigation contains "no allegations" about Obama. So while I applaud your shrewd wait and see approach, there is nothing to be waiting for. The cards are on the table at this point.

[ChumpDumper]

This is directly from the criminal complaint: (PDF) (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/downloads/blagojevich.pdf) that details several conversations caught on a federal wiretap:


"Change to Win" is a labor NGO that the governor was interested in heading up. In order to get that job, Blagojevich had to approach the head of the powerful Service Employees International Union (SEIU) Andy Stern. The Governor was willing to name a candidate who would be little more than a union toady in order to secure that position. And he was asking "Advisor B" (likely, Emanuel) to make it happen.


There is speculation that "Advisor B" is Rahm Emanuel.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:A local Fox News station reported that Emanuel blew the whistle on Blagojevich.

Are you ever going to say what you think Obama's involvement is?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

There is speculation that "Advisor B" is Rahm Emanuel.i read jesse "my dad wants to cut your nuts off" jackson jr. is one of those as well.

[ChumpDumper]

This is directly from the criminal complaint: (PDF) (http://www.chicagobusiness.com/downloads/blagojevich.pdf)That's a press release.

[Yonivore]

i read jesse "my dad wants to cut your nuts off" jackson jr. is one of those as well.

I hear he's Candidate 5

[2centsworth]

the only negative for Obama is the spotlight to come on the Rezco deal. That land deal looks to be real shady. Other than that, I don't see Obama being connected.

btw, I hope the Rezco stuff turns out to be nothing.

[doobs]

What investigation? Obama's not being investigated for anything. And in the Blagojevich investigation the lead prosecutor has already said that the investigation contains "no allegations" about Obama. So while I applaud your shrewd wait and see approach, there is nothing to be waiting for. The cards are on the table at this point.

Obama says it's an ongoing investigation. And I never said Obama is under investigation. I was referring to the investigation into the Governor's corruption.

The Governor is under arrest. Who knows, maybe he'll get scared and start naming names. The cards are not on the table. There's more to this story.

[2centsworth]

candidate #5 is toast.

[xrayzebra]

Does Richard know about this?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

candidate #5 is toast.
he might be. abc has reported it is. hopefully that's not too neo-con-y for people.

[Oh, Gee!!]

he might be. abc has reported it is. hopefully that's not too neo-con-y for people.

huffingtonpost.com says it is as well.

[Yonivore]

Paragraph 12 of the Criminal Affidavit (linked in an earlier post):


"Because this affidavit is submitted for the limited purpose of securing a criminal complaint and corresponding arrest warrants, I have not included each and every fact known to me concerning this investigation."

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Viva Las Espuelas]

huffingtonpost.com says it is as well.i'm sure if you look hard enough tmz would too.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

first round of clearing up the mispokedness is on deck at 3:15CST by candidate 5.

[Yonivore]

Paragraph 13: “Since approximately 2003, the government has been investigating allegations of illegal activity occurring in State of Illinois government as part of the administration of Governor ROD BLAGOJEVICH.”
:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[ChumpDumper]

So Yoni, how do you think Obama is involved?:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:

[2centsworth]

Jesse Jackson Jr., wow.

[Oh, Gee!!]

So Yoni, how do you think Obama is involved?:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:

he doesn't know:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:

[Yonivore]

he doesn't know:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:
Right now, I think his greatest vulnerability is the Rezko/Obama property deal.

But, I don't know. I just know he's palled around with a number of the individuals mentioned in the affidavit and who have been under investigation, indicted, or tried in the past 6 years.

And, considering a) this Special Agent only included fact related to the Blogojevich arrest warrant and b) the investigation has been ongoing since 2003; I'd say there's a chance that if Obama is dirty, it's going to be revealed.

Let's all stay tuned.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[ChumpDumper]

So Yoni doesn't think Obama is involved with Blagojevich's selling of the senate seat at all.

Nice waste of bandwidth.

[MannyIsGod]

This thread is funny.

[Yonivore]

This thread is funny.
I'm just giddy you're amused.

[Yonivore]

More chuckles for Manny...

"An emissary," Blagojevich notes, came to tell him that "Senate Candidate 5" would raise $1 million for him if Blago made Senate Candidate 5 Senator.

Senate Candidate 5 is suspected to be Jesse Jackson, Jr.

Jesse Jackson, Sr. just retained legal counsel. (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/10/jesse-jackson-jr-i-am-not-i-am-not-a-target-of-this-investigation/)

Is he the "emissary"?

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[ChumpDumper]

So no mention of Obama's involvement whatsoever.:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:

[8ft.tall.tejano]

hahaha........damn, whats a democratic admin w/o a whitewater?....bored ass people...blago should just resign, to make it fair to the ppl of IL the seat should be put up for a special election, which would also make that sen legit....well if anything it gives hannity something to talk about w/his zombies.......

[Yonivore]

Just to bump

POLITICO: Blagojevich questions censored on Transition site. (http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1208/Blagojevich_questions_censored_on_Transition_site. html?showall)


President-elect Barack Obama’s Transition today launched “Open for Questions,” a Digg-style feature allowing citizens to submit questions, and to vote on one another’s questions, bringing favored inquiries to the top of the list.

It was suggested when it launched that the tool would bring uncomfortable questions to the fore, but the results so far are the opposite: Obama’s supporters appear to be using — and abusing — a tool allowing them to “flag” questions as “inappropriate” to remove all questions mentioning Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich from the main pages of Obama’s website. . . . So far, Obama’s team does not seem to have stepped in to allow uncomfortable questions to rise to the top, and instead is allowing his supporters to sanitize the site.
Hope and change!

[ChumpDumper]

I'll bump too since we're still waiting for Yoni to tell us what he believes Obama's involvement is.

[Yonivore]

Illinois governor ignores Obama's call to resign (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/ap_on_re_us/illinois_governor)

I can certainly envision a scenario where this guy goes kicking and screaming and naming names. He strikes me as a scorched-earth type of guy.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Yonivore]

inLpxuO_lYo

This may be my all-time favorite political video. The day before he’s hauled off in cuffs, Governor Blago is asked about the “cloud hanging over” his administration. His answer — among other gems in this 2 1/2 minute laugh out loud clip — is: “There’s no cloud over me. We’ve got nothing but sunshine.”

Ranks up there with Gary Hart's taunt for the media to follow him.

[Creepn]

Geez your fucking annoying Yoni.

I read that other thread where people were giving you forum "props", but after reading your threads I just don't see how they could do that.

[Yonivore]

Geez your fucking annoying Yoni.

I read that other thread where people were giving you forum "props", but after reading your threads I just don't see how they could do that.
Thanks for the feedback.

[ChumpDumper]

So nothing at all about Obama's involvement.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Create a Transparent and Connected Democracy

Open Up Government to its Citizens: The Bush Administration has been one of the most secretive, closed administrations in American history. Our nation’s progress has been stifled by a system corrupted by millions of lobbying dollars contributed to political campaigns, the revolving door between government and industry, and privileged access to inside information-all of which have led to policies that favor the few against the public interest. An Obama presidency will use cutting-edge technologies to reverse this dynamic, creating a new level of transparency, accountability and participation for America's citizens.http://www.barackobama.com/issues/technology/#transparent-democracy

[MannyIsGod]

Yup, Obama failed on that part. He should never have put the IL gov into power.

[Yonivore]

Is Michelle Obama the "Specifically Named Individual" in the Affidavit? And, if so, what does it mean?

Inquiring minds want to know...

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Yonivore]

Tuesday, December 9, 2008:


"I had no contact with the governor or his office"

Tuesday, December 2, 2008:


http://malor.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/obamablagoatgovernorsmeeting.jpg
Obama and Blagojevich at the National Governors Association meeting last Tuesday

Tuesday, December 16, 2008:


"That depends on what the meaning of 'contact' is..."

[Yonivore]

like this?

http://www.tellingfilms.co.uk/images/palestine/rumsfeld_saddam.gif
Nope. Not like that at all. Rumsfeld never denied that meeting.

[Yonivore]

Well, I’ll be damned…maybe the NYTimes has realized it’s their incredible bias that has caused their circulation to evaporate. It’s taken awhile but, apparently, the mainstream media has decided to start asking the Church of Obama a few relevant questions…

After all, they can’t let a scandal as juicy as Blogogate go uncovered, can they? It appears the NYTimes ( “http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/11/us/politics/11Fallout.html?hp”) is a bit miffed at Team Obama over their reluctance to talk about the scandal:


”Mr. Obama said Tuesday that he had never spoken with the governor about the seat, and prosecutors have not implicated Mr. Obama or his advisers. At the same time, Mr. Obama’s team has declined for two days to answer questions about what discussions they had about the seat and whether intermediaries had any contacts with Mr. Blagojevich’s advisers.

Republicans have raised questions about Mr. Obama’s refusal to say more and about his past ties with the main characters. Even if Mr. Obama remains untouched by the investigation, it shines a light on the corrupt politics of the state he emerged from and takes attention away from the agenda of change he would rather emphasize.

“This is a huge distraction at the worst possible moment,” said Lanny J. Davis, a former White House special counsel who did damage control for President Bill Clinton.

And it can grow if not handled properly. “It’s like the whirlwind,” said Chris Lehane, another veteran of the Clinton teams. “You get pulled into the vortex more and more.”
But the money shot (yes, I know what that is) is a few paragraphs down:


Mr. Emanuel was among the few people in Mr. Obama’s circle who occasionally spoke to Mr. Blagojevich. He declined to answer questions on Wednesday, waving off a reporter who approached him as he walked across Capitol Hill.

A Democrat familiar with Illinois politics and the Obama transition, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said there probably were calls between the Blagojevich and Obama camps about the Senate seat. It was not clear if any calls were recorded by federal agents, who had tapped the governor’s phones.
Okay, maybe I give the NYTimes a bit too much credit. If this were a Republican scandal there would be a two-inch headline : “NEW CHIEF OF STAFF TALKED WITH BLAGO – SCANDAL GROWS.” But even in its milder form, this is fairly troubling information. The “we didn’t” vs. “I didn’t” talk to Blago distinction that the President-elect stammered out when first pressed on Blago’s contacts with the transition team does seem to have been a key one.

If in fact Emanuel had conversations with Blago that were taped, the Obama team better get all the facts out. Fast. Otherwise, Emanuel and the Obama administration will be in for a tough ride.

So, is it over? (The honeymoon, of course.) Let’s just say the press is finding something more tantalizing than Obama-promotion: a fascinating scandal that potentially touches a key member of the new administration…or…dare I say, Obama himself!!! OMG!!! Not the anointed one…or, as Oprah calls him “The One.”

I’m proud of the NYTimes. For once, they’re not on their knees sucking Obama’s cock.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[MannyIsGod]

It gets even funnier.

[DarkReign]

So, how is this Obama's fault?

The governor is trying to sell Obama's now-vacant seat. He is quoted as saying, in reference to Obama...

"...all they will give me is gratitude. Fuck them."

Sooo, it looks like Obama was playing by the rules while the governor is trying to sell to the highest bidder.

Exactly how does this reflect on Obama in any way but a positive one?

[Yonivore]

So, how is this Obama's fault?

The governor is trying to sell Obama's now-vacant seat. He is quoted as saying, in reference to Obama...

"...all they will give me is gratitude. Fuck them."

Sooo, it looks like Obama was playing by the rules while the governor is trying to sell to the highest bidder.

Exactly how does this reflect on Obama in any way but a positive one?
Did he report the attempted bribe? Or, was he merely refusing to play -- this time with the "pay to play" politics of Illinois.

This investigation has been ongoing since 2003 and the FBI Special Agent has already stated he only included fact in his affidavit that were relevant to securing the arrest warrants for Blogojevich and Harris.

Obama has been immersed in Chicago politics since his political career began. Blogojevich has been suspected of illegality since his first term yet, Obama supported him for re-election in 2006.

At best, Obama has remained willfully ignorant of the culture of corruption in Chicago. At worst, he's been involved and just plays it better than most.

[Yonivore]

John Fund, in the Wall Street Journal touches on Obama's problem here:


What remains to be seen is whether this episode will put an end to what Chicago Tribune political columnist John Kass calls the national media's "almost willful" fantasy that Mr. Obama and Chicago's political culture have little to do with each other. Mr. Kass notes that the media devoted a lot more time and energy to investigating the inner workings of Sarah Palin's Wasilla, Alaska, than it has looking at Mr. Obama's Chicago connections.

To date, Mr. Obama's approach to Illinois corruption has been to congratulate himself for dodging association with it. "I think I have done a good job in rising politically in this environment without being entangled in some of the traditional problems of Chicago politics," he told the Chicago Tribune last spring. At the time, Mr. Obama was being grilled over news that he bought his house through a land deal involving Tony Rezko, a political fixer who was later convicted on 16 corruption counts. Rezko is mentioned dozens of times in the 76-page criminal complaint against Mr. Blagojevich.

Mr. Obama has an ambiguous reputation among those trying to clean up Illinois politics. "We have a sick political culture, and that's the environment Barack Obama came from," Jay Stewart, executive director of the Chicago Better Government Association, told ABC News months ago. Though Mr. Obama did support ethics reforms as a state senator, Mr. Stewart noted that he's "been noticeably silent on the issue of corruption here in his home state including, at this point, mostly Democratic politicians."

[doobs]

So, how is this Obama's fault?

The governor is trying to sell Obama's now-vacant seat. He is quoted as saying, in reference to Obama...

"...all they will give me is gratitude. Fuck them."

Sooo, it looks like Obama was playing by the rules while the governor is trying to sell to the highest bidder.

Exactly how does this reflect on Obama in any way but a positive one?

Wait a minute. Didn't Obama say that he had never spoken to the Governor? How would the Governor know that "all they will give me is gratitude"? Oh, right, I nearly forgot. Obama personally never spoke to the Governor. That's not at all misleading.

If there was contact between Obama's people and the Governor's people, and if the Governor asked them for money or for favors, it would be very interesting to know who knew what and when. If, for instance, Rahm knew all about this, but said nothing to the authorities . . . well, that's pretty shitty. Hopefully, Obama's people were "playing by the rules" and providing help in advancing the investigation against this idiot.

Illinois has been among the dirtiest political states for decades, at least since the Daley machine rigged the 1960 election. This scandal doesn't surprise me a bit. And I actually hope Obama and his people are innocent. Even though I didn't vote for him, I don't want a cloud hanging over him, for the good of the country.

[Wild Cobra]

Illinois has been among the dirtiest political states for decades, at least since the Daley machine rigged the 1960 election. This scandal doesn't surprise me a bit. And I actually hope Obama and his people are innocent. Even though I didn't vote for him, I don't want a cloud hanging over him, for the good of the country.
I agree. I've avoided posting my opinion here because it is mixed. I suspect Obama is involved somehow, but I hope he isn't. Now that he will be the POTUS, I do my best not to wish harm on the presidency, and hope like hell I'm wrong about the man. I hope he becomes a good president.

[2centsworth]

so far I like what Obama has done. I see the potential for a great presidency, so I hope nothing befalls this guy. However, I see the Rezko deal being a problem.

[Oh, Gee!!]

(Obama) declared that he "had no contact with the governor's office" and "did not speak to the governor" about the process of who should replace him as Senator. (from a press conference on 12-11-08)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/11/obama-denies-blagojevich_n_150248.html

[Viva Las Espuelas]

(Obama) declared that he "had no contact with the governor's office" and "did not speak to the governor" about the process of who should replace him as Senator. (from a press conference on 12-11-08)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/11/obama-denies-blagojevich_n_150248.html
that's not what axelrod said.

[Oh, Gee!!]

that's not what axelrod said.

okay? Today (12-11-08) Obama is saying no contact was made to discuss the empty senate seat. Either there was or there wasn't.

[Yonivore]

okay? Today (12-11-08) Obama is saying no contact was made to discuss the empty senate seat. Either there was or there wasn't.
You are correct, sir. Either there was or there wasn't.

[Yonivore]

Case Confirms Rezko Is Talking With Prosecutors (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/10/AR2008121003232_pf.html)

What'd I say in an earlier post?


And, considering a) this Special Agent only included fact related to the Blogojevich arrest warrant and b) the investigation has been ongoing since 2003; I'd say there's a chance that if Obama is dirty, it's going to be revealed.

Let's all stay tuned.

Oh yeah, I also think Blogojevich is probably going to go scorched earth before he resigns peacefully...

But, we'll see.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Oh, Gee!!]

Case Confirms Rezko Is Talking With Prosecutors (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/10/AR2008121003232_pf.html)

What'd I say in an earlier post?



Let's all stay tuned.

Oh yeah, I also think Blogojevich is probably going to go scorched earth before he resigns peacefully...

But, we'll see.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

did you read the article cited? you probably should. I'll wait:

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Viva Las Espuelas]

okay? Today (12-11-08) Obama is saying no contact was made to discuss the empty senate seat. Either there was or there wasn't.
why did it change from what axelrod said before. surely, axelrod should know for a fact. shadows always seem to follow obama. seems to be the common denominator. the supposed most intelligent man to secure the presidency in quite a while doesn't know what's brewing in his backyard? must not be all that intelligent, but i digress. do as i say not as i do. change is on the way. repeat.

[Yonivore]

did you read the article cited? you probably should. I'll wait:

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:
Nah, what it said isn't as important as the fact Obama is mired in this culture and Rezko is talking. I've already gone on record as saying he may come out of all this squeaky clean but, as I said in my post, if there something there it's probably going to be revealed.

If it isn't Rezko or Blogojevich it could be someone they rat out...

This is far, far, far from over. There are dozens of arrests pending in the current complaint against Blogojevich, alone.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Oh, Gee!!]

Nah, what it said isn't as important as the fact Obama is mired in this culture and Rezko is talking. I've already gone on record as saying he may come out of all this squeaky clean but, as I said in my post, if there something there it's probably going to be revealed.

If it isn't Rezko or Blogojevich it could be someone they rat out...

This is far, far, far from over. There are dozens of arrests pending in the current complaint against Blogojevich, alone.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

Keep the faith, I guess.

[Yonivore]

Okay, I did read it.

Important paragraphs:


Antoin "Tony" Rezko's offer to provide authorities with evidence of others' wrongdoing is "not complete," and prosecutors are working to corroborate the claims he has made so far, the footnote said.


Prosecutors depicted Rezko at trial as a fixer for Blagojevich and the man to see to secure a high-level appointment with the governor's administration. Rezko had been a longtime fundraiser for Blagojevich and other Illinois politicians, including Obama.
Who got Michelle Obama that cushy position Blogojevich was bitching about?


"I should make clear, the complaint makes no allegations about the president-elect whatsoever," Fitzgerald said. "We make no allegations that he's aware of anything, and that's as simply as I can put it. . . .

"There's no reference in the complaint to any conversations involving the president-elect or indicating that the president-elect was aware of it. And that's all I can say."
The FBI Special Agent has already said, and did so in the affidavit itself, that he only revealed the facts necessary to file this complaint and secure arrest warrants for Blogojevich and Harris.

In that context, Fitzgerald could safely say, "I should make clear, the complaint makes no allegations about the president-elect whatsoever," and "we make no allegations that he's aware of anything..."


"Could evidence pop up in the future to the contrary? Sure, it's possible. Is it likely? I think that, based on what he said yesterday, the answer is no," Baran added.
It damn sure could and I think whether or not it is likely is dependent on how you parse Fitzgerald's words in the context of what the FBI Agent led his affidavit off with; that he was not revealing all the facts accumulated in an investigation that's been ongoing since 2003 and centered on more than just a few Obama associates.

So, you were saying?

:corn:

[Yonivore]

Keep the faith, I guess.
Sorry, I read and responded. Care to rebut?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

(Obama) declared that he "had no contact with the governor's office" and "did not speak to the governor" about the process of who should replace him as Senator. (from a press conference on 12-11-08)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/11/obama-denies-blagojevich_n_150248.html
well i see that he spoke for his whole team. i hope he's being transparent. i'd hate for him to be proven otherwise. i just wonder who promised "appreciation" as blagojevich said. maybe somebody did "misspoke", but.....err.....not from obama's team.


very transparent.

[Yonivore]

well i see that he spoke for his whole team. i hope he's being transparent. i'd hate for him to be proven otherwise. i just wonder who promised "appreciation" as blagojevich said. maybe somebody did "misspoke", but.....err.....not from obama's team.


very transparent.
Yeah, he's already sounding "Clintonesque."

Change and Hope...Hope and Change...yadda yadda yadda.

[ChumpDumper]

So nothing about any involvement by Obama at all.
Did he report the attempted bribe?Was he the one even contacted about the bribe? Someone sure as hell reported it in October if not earlier -- one doesn't just stroll up to a judge and obtain successive wiretap warrants for a sitting US governor on a whim. Your partisan douchebaggery has left you devoid of common sense.

Yoni, all you are doing is guessing and praying for a worst case scenario for Obama and the country as a whole. It's really quite disgusting. Why do you hate America? Oh yeah, because McCain lost.

[Anti.Hero]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20081210/capt.cps.olv74.101208185403.photo03.photo.default-396x512.jpg?x=266&y=345&q=85&sig=Uklim0P755PLrY_Thuor1w--

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Yeah, he's already sounding "Clintonesque."

Change and Hope...Hope and Change...yadda yadda yadda.
hopefully this isn't Obama's "I......didn't...........have..............sexual.. .......relations.............................with that...............woman" moment.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20081210/capt.cps.olv74.101208185403.photo03.photo.default-396x512.jpg?x=266&y=345&q=85&sig=Uklim0P755PLrY_Thuor1w--this might be old school but he kinda favors Handy Andy.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Sorry, I read and responded. Care to rebut?

Rebut what? A non-accusation? How would I rebut that?

[ChumpDumper]

Rebut what? A non-accusation? How would I rebut that?I know, all he's doing is parroting right wing blog innuendo.

He STILL hasn't said what he believes is Obama's involvement. I don't know why he's so scared.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I know, all he's doing is parroting right wing blog innuendo.

He STILL hasn't said what he believes is Obama's involvement. I don't know why he's so scared.

some real star chamber crap if u ask me

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Really Yoni.

Put your cards on the table.

Tell us what you think Obama's involvement is here.




Now you tell me what you think Obama's involvement is.


A local Fox News station reported that Emanuel blew the whistle on Blagojevich.

Are you ever going to say what you think Obama's involvement is?


So Yoni, how do you think Obama is involved?:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:


So no mention of Obama's involvement whatsoever.:corn::corn::corn::corn::corn:


I'll bump too since we're still waiting for Yoni to tell us what he believes Obama's involvement is.


So nothing at all about Obama's involvement.


So nothing about any involvement by Obama at all.W


I know, all he's doing is parroting right wing blog innuendo.

:lmao
oh and,



He STILL hasn't said what he believes is Obama's involvement. I don't know why he's so scared.

[ChumpDumper]

I know. Funny, ain't it?

[Yonivore]

Rebut what? A non-accusation? How would I rebut that?
Well, it appears the non-accusation was only in reference to the complaint and affidavit against Blogojevich.

That's what I read.

Fitzgerald also said:


"There's no reference in the complaint to any conversations involving the president-elect or indicating that the president-elect was aware of it. And that's all I can say."
You'll notice he's very careful to include "the complaint" when talking about Obama's involvement.

"There's no reference in the complaint..." "The complaint makes no allegations." He's a lawyer and he knows what he's saying. The FBI Agent was just as careful to lead off the affidavit with the disclosure this wasn't all the facts related to the 5 years long investigation, just those necessary to secure this complaint and arrest warrant.

What did you say? Oh yeah, "Keep the faith, I guess."

I'd say Fitzgerald was choosing his words carefully...possibly for a reason. I know the FBI Agent included those paragraphs for a reaons. I think people -- particularly Obamaphiles -- are so eager to see this aborted and conclude that they're not giving actual documents or words of the prosecutor much scrutiny. They're looking for just what you point out; anything that would seem to exonerate Obama. But, if you take Fitzgerald's statements along with the content of the affidavit, you could easily claim Obama isn't nearly out of the woods yet.

I'm not as magnanimous as Wild Cobra on this. I think he's dirty although, I'm realistic enough to know he could skate and come out of this squeaky clean. I've also been around law enforcement long enough to know the words in such statements as were made by Fitzgerald are carefully chosen; as are the words put in sworn affidavits.

Newspapers and politicians will report and spin it to whatever advantage they see fit and, frankly, neither Fitzgerald nor the FBI Agent are in a position to engage in a debate in the media.

So, yeah, Keep the faith, I guess.

[balli]

They're looking for just what you point out; anything that would seem to exonerate Obama.

Exonerate him of what?

[ChumpDumper]

I'd say Fitzgerald was choosing his words carefully...possibly for a reason.So he must have also chosen the excerpts from the wiretaps just as carefully -- specifically, the one where Blagojevich says Obama would never give him anything.

That makes perfect sense.

[Yonivore]

:lmao
oh and,
Hell if I know what his involvement is. I'd probably have to be as mired in Chicago politics as he is to know that. And, I've already said as much.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:


...Obama shared a long history with the Chicago developer.

Over Obama's political career, Rezko raised contributions for him and introduced him to powerful aldermen. Rezko even offered real estate advice when Obama bought an expensive house on Chicago's South Side.

The two met in the early 1990s. Obama has said he was finishing his studies at Harvard Law School when Rezko and his business associates first contacted him about a job possibility in development. Obama declined a job offer from Rezko, instead accepting a position at a small Chicago law firm that would later represent Rezko's company and whose senior partner would in time go into business with Rezko.

A few years later, Obama entered politics. Records list three checks arriving on his first day of fundraising for the Illinois Senate. Two of them, totaling $2,000, came from companies associated with Rezko. Over time, the businessman and Obama began meeting regularly for lunch and dinner, occasionally with their wives.

After he joined the U.S. Senate in 2005, Obama took Rezko on a tour of a six-bedroom house in an upscale Chicago neighborhood. Rezko recommended that Obama buy the home and, on the day Obama closed the deal, Rezko's wife closed on an adjoining lot. The Rezkos resold a portion of their lot to Obama to expand his yard.

:corn:

[Oh, Gee!!]

In Yoni's mind, his own accusations trump the criminal complaint. Good luck with that, Yoni.

Edit: Good thread btw.

[ChumpDumper]

Hell if I know what his involvement is. I'd probably have to be as mired in Chicago politics as he is to know that. And, I've already said as much.So you answered a question that wasn't asked. Typical.

[2centsworth]

this is sickening. instead of getting to the truth, people just take sides based on political persuasion. Obama obviously had zero to do with this scandal. However, Rezko could be his kryptonite

[Yonivore]

Exonerate him of what?
Of whatever else the FBI and USAO may be holding -- if, in fact, it implicates wrong-doing by Obama.

[ChumpDumper]

Of whatever else the FBI and USAO may be holding -- if, in fact, it implicates wrong-doing by Obama.What wrong-doing?

[ChumpDumper]

this is sickening. instead of getting to the truth, people just take sides based on political persuasion. Obama obviously had zero to do with this scandal. However, Rezko could be his kryptoniteHow?

[2centsworth]

How?

I'll do a Chump. Look it up you lazy ass.:lol

[ChumpDumper]

I think he's dirtyWhat do you think he has done that is dirty?

[ChumpDumper]

I'll do a Chump. Look it up you lazy ass.:lolI've read quite a bit about the Rezko situation, but I haven't seen anything that could even potentially bring Obama down.

What do you think is there that could?

[Oh, Gee!!]

However, Rezko could be his kryptonite

you'd think he woulda already been his kryptonite. Rezko has been around for a while now.

[2centsworth]

I've read quite a bit about the Rezko situation, but I haven't seen anything that could even potentially bring Obama down.

What do you think is there that could?

I hope you're right.

[2centsworth]

you'd think he woulda already been his kryptonite. Rezko has been around for a while now.

brutal logic. see watergate..

[Yonivore]

this is sickening. instead of getting to the truth, people just take sides based on political persuasion. Obama obviously had zero to do with this scandal. However, Rezko could be his kryptonite
I thought Obama was a scummy Chicago politician all along...why should my opinion change just because he won the election; particularly now that an investigation that touches so many in his inner circle is heating up.

1) I haven't accused Obama of any specific crime; however, I do believe there may be something to the Rezko lot sale and Michelle's appointment to that board. We'll see.

2) My inclination has always been to believe he's a dirty politician, I don't have to give him the benefit of the doubt and I certainly don't have to consider him innocent until proven guilty. I think he'll eventually be implicated in some crime -- I never said it would be directly related to the sale of his vacant Senate seat. Although, you have to wonder, a) why would he lie about not talking to the Governor about his replacement or b) why wouldn't the president-elect visit with the governor of his state about his replacement? I think he did lie because I futher think it's unlikely the President-elect wouldn't want to at least discuss what the Governor had in mind for his replacement. To me, that defies logic.

3) You guys go on defending him and I'll go on believing he'll eventually be revealed for the scumbag I think he is. I do think the dirt meter is going to move a lot further in the direction of him being guilty of something than of him not being guilty of something before this is all over but, I'm not so naive as to think it'll be a show stopper for him.

4) I believe this sets the stage for 4 years of Clintonesque scandalgate crap. Get ready.

[balli]

brutal logic. see watergate..

Dude... the Watergate break-in happened three years into Nixon's presidency.

[Oh, Gee!!]

brutal logic. see watergate..

how is it brutal logic? seems like rezko coulda brought down obama well before the election if he was looking for leniency.

[2centsworth]

Dude... the Watergate break-in happened three years into Nixon's presidency.

history lesson guys. what was the length of time from the break-in to the the time Nixon was fingered?

[2centsworth]

how is it brutal logic? seems like rezko coulda brought down obama well before the election if he was looking for leniency.

really, seems like leniency would come from Obama. anyways, in this case I hope the democrat team is right.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

4) I believe this sets the stage for 4 years of Clintonesque scandalgate crap. Get ready.


birds of a feather.

[Oh, Gee!!]

really, seems like leniency would come from Obama. anyways, in this case I hope the democrat team is right.

I meant leniency from the prosecutors and judge that put him in prison. If he was looking to sing about Obama....why wait till after he's convicted, sentenced, and sitting in prison? Most sing to avoid that whole mess.

[ChumpDumper]

I think he did lie because I futher think it's unlikely the President-elect wouldn't want to at least discuss what the Governor had in mind for his replacement. To me, that defies logic.Here's a scenario that would make quite a bit of sense.

1) Blagojevich lets one of Obama's people know that the senate seat is for sale.

2) Obama's person contacts the FBI or US Attorney in October.

3) Obama wins election.

4) Obama's person who tipped off the feds tells Obama to hold off on serious talks with Blagojevich about filling the senate seat -- maybe letting him in on the investigation, maybe not.

5) Wiretap works, case made, charges brought.

[balli]

history lesson guys. what was the length of time from the break-in to the the time Nixon was fingered?

Uh... within hours they had linkage between The Campaign to Re-Elect Richard Nixon and money that the burglars received. Within two short years and a supreme court battle the case was fully investigated, he was tried, convicted and out of office. You really need to watch All the President's Men or something.

And either way. It's a ridiculous comparison. Watergate wasn't by any stretch imaginable something from Nixon's distant past that hung around to haunt him. It was a crime that took place while he was in office and almost immediately had linkage to his administration. All things told it was a devastatingly immense, blatant and precipitously fast scandal, investigation and conviction. Nothing like Rezko whatsoever.

[ChumpDumper]

history lesson guys. what was the length of time from the break-in to the the time Nixon was fingered?Nixon was not involved in the planning or execution of the break-in itself.

I still don't know what people think Obama could have done here or in the Resko situation that would get him out of office.

[2centsworth]

I meant leniency from the prosecutors and judge that put him in prison. If he was looking to sing about Obama....why wait till after he's convicted, sentenced, and sitting in prison? Most sing to avoid that whole mess. His problems go way beyond his land deal with Obama. Selling out Obama wasn't going to do anything for him. Plus, Obama is protected in that part of the woods. This is what's fishy about the land transaction.

A doctor listed a house and adjacent parcel of land for 1.95 million. Doctor rejects a couple of offers from Obama, but finally accepts $300k less for just the house because the doctor received a $650k offer for the adjacent parcel of land. Hence, the Doctor made 2.3 million instead of his 1.95 original asking price. btw, the purchases happend on the same day. Come to find out it was Rezko's wife who purchased the adjacent land for 650k.

Now if that's not fishy enough, here is where it gets really interesting. Rezkos sold 1/6 of that adjacent lot to Michelle Obama. Well 1/6 of that lot was worth atleast over $100k, but check this out. 1/6 of that property was enough to disallow anyone from building on the remaining 5/6ths, so that 1/6 had even more value than the $100k and it could be argued that the 1/6th contained all of the value of that property.

Guess how much Michelle Obama paid for that land, $40k.

All of that adds up to something fishy. Also keep in mind Obama already knew of Rezko's legal troubles.

It smells, but maybe Obama had to pretend to be a party to the underground world of politics in order to achieve.

I like Obama now, and think the guy is super freakin smart and is just what this country needs.

[doobs]

.

[doobs]

Here's a scenario that would make quite a bit of sense.

1) Blagojevich lets one of Obama's people know that the senate seat is for sale.

2) Obama's person contacts the FBI or US Attorney in October.

3) Obama wins election.

4) Obama's person who tipped off the feds tells Obama to hold off on serious talks with Blagojevich about filling the senate seat -- maybe letting him in on the investigation, maybe not.

5) Wiretap works, case made, charges brought.

That would be a nice story. I hope it's true.

Clearly, you like Obama and believe in him and think he's an honest, great guy. I think the scenario you posted is one of many possibilities.

Keep in mind Blagojevich was already under investigation for other alleged crimes. So maybe (2) didn't happen. Here's another scenario:

(1) Blagojevich calls Obama's people, asks for money;
(2) Obama's people politely say "no";
(3) Obama's people fail to tell authorities;
(4) Obama is aware of the inappropriate overture, laughs it off;
(5) Story breaks, Obama scrambles, acts like he didn't know anything.

Here's another one:

(1) Blagojevich and Obama have several informal discussions about replacement;
(2) Blagojevich's people and Obama's people have negotiatons for months;
(3) Blagojevich doesn't want to outright ask for money, but drops hints;
(4) Obama's people never offer him money, instead play hard ball, try to get what they want for free;
(5) Some of Obama's people, even including Obama, know what's going on, even if it's unspoken;
(6) Obama's people fail to tell authorities;
(7) Obama laughs it off;
(8) Story breaks, Obama scrambles, acts like he didn't know anything.

This is a real story, man. We need to know more. Even if Obama is innocent, it's important to get the whole story, because it involves him.

[2centsworth]

Nixon was not involved in the planning or execution of the break-in itself. he knew about the previous psychiatrist break-in though.



I still don't know what people think Obama could have done here or in the Resko situation that would get him out of office.

enough to get him out of office, probably not. enough to hurt his credibility, probably so.

[Yonivore]

Jim Lindgren over at Volokh Conspiracy has this:

The Blagojevich Timeline: Everything Fits Easily Except Obama's Monday Denial. (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_12_07-2008_12_13.shtml#1228903890)

It depends on what the meaning of the word "Contact" is. (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_12_07-2008_12_13.shtml#1228972243)

[ChumpDumper]

That would be a nice story. I hope it's true.

Clearly, you like Obama and believe in him and think he's an honest, great guy. I think the scenario you posted is one of many possibilities.I don't think he's a great guy. I also don't think he's stupid enough to buy a senate seat from Blagojevich.


Keep in mind Blagojevich was already under investigation for other alleged crimes. So maybe (2) didn't happen.Something had to happen to get two wiretap warrants.


Here's another scenario:

(1) Blagojevich calls Obama's people, asks for money;
(2) Obama's people politely say "no";
(3) Obama's people fail to tell authorities;
(4) Obama is aware of the inappropriate overture, laughs it off;
(5) Story breaks, Obama scrambles, acts like he didn't know anything.Possible, but given the gravity of the situation, doubtful.


Here's another one:

(1) Blagojevich and Obama have several informal discussions about replacement;
(2) Blagojevich's people and Obama's people have negotiatons for months;
(3) Blagojevich doesn't want to outright ask for money, but drops hints;
(4) Obama's people never offer him money, instead play hard ball, try to get what they want for free;
(5) Some of Obama's people, even including Obama, know what's going on, even if it's unspoken;
(6) Obama's people fail to tell authorities;
(7) Obama laughs it off;
(8) Story breaks, Obama scrambles, acts like he didn't know anything.Blagojevich doesn't seem to be the hinting kind, and ultimately it's not like a Republican was going to be appointed. Does anyone really believe that Obama would jeopardize his presidency and personal freedom over this?


This is a real story, man. We need to know more. Even if Obama is innocent, it's important to get the whole story, because it involves him.Of course we need to know more -- and we will. It's pretty obvious that the investigation isn't over and many people simply can't talk now. I don't pretend to know what actually happened, but I'm not afraid to say what I think like some here.

[2centsworth]

Jim Lindgren over at Volokh Conspiracy has this:

The Blagojevich Timeline: Everything Fits Easily Except Obama's Monday Denial. (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_12_07-2008_12_13.shtml#1228903890)

It depends on what the meaning of the word "Contact" is. (http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_12_07-2008_12_13.shtml#1228972243)

it's such a freakin dirty ordeal I can see Obama just wanting to deny he knew anything about it. It's obvious he didn't go along with the scheme, so why even involve him. I would say the exact same thing. Leave me the hell alone with this nonsense.

[Yonivore]

it's such a freakin dirty ordeal I can see Obama just wanting to deny he knew anything about it. It's obvious he didn't go along with the scheme, so why even involve him. I would say the exact same thing. Leave me the hell alone with this nonsense.That whole political culture in Chicago is a freakin' dirty ordeal and it doesn't seem to have bothered Obama up to this point. He's palled around with Rezko, Blogojevich, Emanuel, et. al. for years without appearing to hold his nose.

Nah, I think, his eagerness to distance himself from this particular scandal led him to lie in this case, but, in doing so, he's opened himself up to much closer scrutiny over his years of association with these scumbags.

And, that's my 2centsworth.

[ChumpDumper]

he knew about the previous psychiatrist break-in though.Nixon found out about it a several months after the fact. Ehrlichman signed off on that one.

[MannyIsGod]

this is sickening. instead of getting to the truth, people just take sides based on political persuasion. Obama obviously had zero to do with this scandal. However, Rezko could be his kryptonite

Yoni's just doing his best to fuck with them and its pretty much working.

Either that or he really does hate America.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't believe Obama's administration is going to be mired in scandal, BUT

I'd gladly take Clintonesque scandals over the scandals of the last 8 years and its not even close. Misplacing a cigar in the oval office has nothing on a bullshit war, outing CIA agents, torture/military prison mishaps, and US attorney scandals to name a few.

[Yonivore]

I don't believe Obama's administration is going to be mired in scandal, BUT

I'd gladly take Clintonesque scandals over the scandals of the last 8 years and its not even close. Misplacing a cigar in the oval office has nothing on a bullshit war, outing CIA agents, torture/military prison mishaps, and US attorney scandals to name a few.
Why have impeachment proceedings not been initiated? Because it's all bullshit rhetoric that you're eating up...and have been eating up for 8 years.

When was the President investigated? When was a special prosecutor appointed to investigate this administration?

This president has not been accused of a crime by anyone other than partisan hacks and Democrats that hold mock impeachment hearings at their crocheting club in the basement of the Capitol.

What scandal? The war? Manufactured scandal by the President's critics.

[ChumpDumper]

This president-elect has not been accused of a crime by anyone other than partisan hacksHell, you don't even have the balls to do that.

[doobs]

Hell, you don't even have the balls to do that.

He was comparing the scandals of Bill Clinton and George Bush. He was responding to someone who said they preferred Clintonesque scandals to the Bush's scandals. That's fairly obvious.

[ChumpDumper]

He was comparing the scandals of Bill Clinton and George Bush. He was responding to someone who said they preferred Clintonesque scandals to the Bush's scandals. That's fairly obvious.He's been spouting innuendo about Obama's being a criminal the entire thread. That's glaringly obvious.

[Yonivore]

Just what is it with Democratic Presidents and land?

FBI asked questions on Rezko land deal (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/04/fbi-asked-questions-on-rezko-land-deal/)


The real estate specialist, Kenneth J. Conner, said bank officials replaced an appraisal review he prepared on the property and FBI agents were investigating in late 2007 whether the Rezko-Obama deal was proper.

“Agents and I talked about payoff, bribe, kickback for a long time, though it took them only a short number of minutes of talking with me while looking at the appraisal to acknowledge what they already seemed to know: The Rezko lot was grossly overvalued,” Mr. Conner told The Washington Times Monday.

“Rezko paid the asking price on the same day Obama paid $300,000 less than the asking price to the same seller for his adjacent mansion,” he said. “This begs the question of payoff, bribe, kickback.”

In a wrongful-termination complaint filed last month in the Circuit Court of Cook County, Mr. Conner said his appraisal of the Rezko property, held in Rita Malki Rezko's name, was replaced with a higher one and he was fired when he questioned the document.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Yonivore]

More


Mr. Obama, the Democratic presidential nominee, has denied being involved in any wrongdoing, although he considered the purchase “a mistake on my part and I regret it.” The deal took place at a time it was widely known that federal authorities were investigating Rezko and several Illinois politicians he had befriended.

According to his complaint, Mr. Conner reviewed the appraisal of the Rezko property by another firm, Adams Appraisal, which had set the value at $625,000. The complaint said he told his bosses the property had been overvalued by at least $125,000 and that a “reasonable and fair evaluation” should have been no greater than $500,000.

...

Mr. Conner is asking Mr. Obama to make his lower appraisal review of his house public, saying it is relevant to his pending complaint.
Let's see if Obama stands up for the little guy that was wrongfully fired for trying to do the right thing. Any bets on whether or not Mr. President-elect will produce the the appraisal review?

[ChumpDumper]

You're acting like a month-old article is news.

[Yonivore]

Obama and Rezko worked together for more than ten years in Illinois politics. If Rezko was as dirty as a jury verdict states and as federal prosecutors believe, how likely is it that anyone employing him was squeaky clean? Their political association lasted over ten years, during the period when Rezko was corrupting state politics. It’s certainly possible that Rezko’s corruption didn’t involve Obama, but to assume it didn’t seems far too incredible by half, especially with the present example of Illinois politics before us now.
If Rezko’s singing, many politicians are sweating. Obama may be one of them.

I prefer to wait and see what happens before being dismissive of the possibility.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[ChumpDumper]

What do you think Obama did?

[clambake]

when do you think they'll fill all the holes of this investigation?

or.......

are they leaving them opwn to give people like yoni something to cling to?

[Yonivore]

It was already reported (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/12/11/america/11fallout.php)that Rahm Emanuel was keeping quiet since the Blagojevich Scandal broke. But, this morning and later this afternoon Rahm Emanuel continued to duck questions about the scandal.

The Chicago Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/1326788,rahm-emanuel-blagojevich-obama-121108.article) reported:


President-elect Barack Obama’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, refused to take questions from reporters this morning about whether he was the Obama “advisor” named in the criminal complaint against Gov. Rod Blagojevich.

The complaint states Blagojevich wanted a promise of a high-level appointment or some other reward for Blagojevich in exchange for Blagojevich naming Obama’s friend Valerie Jarrett to replace him in the U.S. Senate.

Emanuel was uncharacteristically absent from Obama’s news conference this morning. He was spotted two hours later in the lobby of Chicago’s City Hall. He was there to listen to his two children performing in a concert with their school, Anshe Emet.

A Sun-Times reporter pressed him to comment about whether he was the emissary named in the criminal complaint.

“You’re wasting your time,” Emanuel said. “I’m not going to say a word to you. I’m going to do this with my children. Dont do that. I’m a father. I have two kids. I’m not going to do it.”

Asked, “Can’t you do both?” Emanuel replied, “I’m not as capable as you. I’m going to be a father. I’m allowed to be a father,” and he pushed the reporter’s digital recorder away.

Blagojevch was caught on tape saying that he wanted the Obama advisor in question to know what Blagojevich wanted in exchange for the Jarrett appointment.
Seriously, didn't it take longer to try and brush off the reporter than it would have to have said "yes" or "no" to the question?


when do you think they'll fill all the holes of this investigation?

or.......

are they leaving them opwn to give people like yoni something to cling to?
I'm sorry, didn't this just break on Tuesday?

[balli]

Yoni's central thesis is essentially unrelated to this case. He's convinced Obama's guilty of something, but he doesn't know what, especially not as pertaining to the Gov.

He's basically just irrationally out for blood.
http://www.arnadal.no/film/images/bsdracul.jpg

[clambake]

i can't believe no one is answering questions about an on going investigation.

[balli]

Seriously, didn't it take longer to try and brush off the reporter than it would have to have said "yes" or "no" to the question?

If a reporter wants an answer from Rahm they can ask him in a professional venue. And that wouldn't include ambushing him at his kid's school play.

[Yonivore]

Yoni's central thesis is essentially unrelated to this case. He's convinced Obama's guilty of something, but he doesn't know what, especially not as pertaining to the Gov.

He's basically just irrationally out for blood.
http://www.arnadal.no/film/images/bsdracul.jpg
It's irrational to believe Obama is potentially involved in some illegality after watching Rezko (a close associate and advisor for over 10 years) convicted on over a dozen corruption crimes and Blogojevich (whom Obama worked for, campaigned for, and supported even after it was suspected he was a criminal) be perp marched from his house on public corruption crimes?

Okay. Call me irrational.

I think it's irrational to just want to drop the matter and declare Obama innocent at this point.

[Yonivore]

If a reporter wants an answer from Rahm they can ask him in a professional venue. And that wouldn't include ambushing him at his kid's school play.

Well, it seems Emanuel is making himself scarce in professional venues right not, at a time when answers would be helpful.

[ChumpDumper]

Seriously, didn't it take longer to try and brush off the reporter than it would have to have said "yes" or "no" to the question?Makes perfect sense if he's the guy who blew the whistle on Blagojevich.



I'm sorry, didn't this just break on Tuesday?So why are you posting stories from November 4?

[Yonivore]

i can't believe no one is answering questions about an on going investigation.
How would his confirming or denying that jeopardize the investigation? Obama didn't have any problem denying it.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, it seems Emanuel is making himself scarce in professional venues right not, at a time when answers would be helpful.To whom?

You?

If he's involved in the investigation, public comment from him could definitely hurt a case against Blagojevich. Of course, common sense is not your strong suit.

[clambake]

:lol you would never consider him innocent of anything.


Why didn't they arrest the Clintons for all the people they killed?

[Wild Cobra]

(Obama) declared that he "had no contact with the governor's office" and "did not speak to the governor" about the process of who should replace him as Senator. (from a press conference on 12-11-08)


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/11/obama-denies-blagojevich_n_150248.html
And you believe a politician, and any spin the Huffington Post places on a story?

Please, stop drinking the Kool-Aid for a few days, get sober...

Then...

Consider something. Liberals ignore all the shady people Obama has surrounded himself with over the last 20 years or so, yet believe president Bush is guilty of everything said bad about him.

What if you placed the same thinking process to Obama...

Again, I hope he's clean in these matters and makes a good president. I just see both rather unlikely.

[Yonivore]

If a reporter wants an answer from Rahm they can ask him in a professional venue. And that wouldn't include ambushing him at his kid's school play.

Jesse Jackson didn't have any problem denying his involvement...

Rev. Jackson: I Played No Role in Blagojevich Scandal, Not an 'Emissary' (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/ConductUnbecoming/story?id=6443928&page=1)

How 'bout Emanuel?

[balli]

Consider something. Liberals ignore all the shady people Obama has surrounded himself with over the last 20 years or so, yet believe president Bush is guilty of everything said bad about him.

That's not true. There are plenty of liberals on this board and elsewhere who don't believe everything that's "said bad about him". Case in point: The Carlyle Group. People love to smear Bush with contacts like said Carlyle Group or the Bin Ladens; and using those contacts they try to make the case that Iraq and 9/11 were conspiratorially organized by Bush & Co in a joint venture with the Saudi's and Bin Ladens. And equally true, as you well know, there are plenty of liberals who don't buy into said conspiracies.

Now, regarding Bush's conduct in office, I believe a lot, because I witnessed it. Bush's scandals weren't related to all the shady people who surround him and his family (far more than Obama) but rather, the criminal and negligent conduct of his administration, as pertaining to matters officially within the nation and public's interest. Katrina, Walter Reed, Libby/Plame, NSA wiretapping. Cheney's Energy Task Force, suppression of federal scientific reporting, Abu Ghraib, Halliburton, expansion of the executive branch, Iraq intelligence and Cheney running amok with the CIA, efforts to prevent the 9/11 commission, etc, etc, etc, and on and on and on. None of that has to do with Bush's political connections- it all has to do with shady, manipulative scumbaggery and crime. It's substantive- something these random and vague allegations about Obama are anything but.