Lebron James you are not and will never be the closer Kobe and MJ are

[DrHouse]

Time winding down, Deng is giving you the wide open jumper to win the game. You get as good a look as possible on man coverage. You size up the shot........CLANK. Shot it too hard and the ball clanks off the back of the rim.

[lefty]

Lebron >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Kobitch

[xtremesteven33]

Kobe is the best player on the planet.

Lebron cant hit a walk away game wininng shot. Kobe has done it hundreds of times.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Just because it hasnt been at the buzzer, doenst mean Lebron cant close games. Ask the Wizards and Pistons. I remember atleast 3 games last year where he did it as well. The Blazers game comes to mind. Not to mention he was the leading 4th quarter scorer last season.

Lebron > raper.

[pauls931]

damn, lakers fans are ripping on everyone lately...

[dirk4mvp]

Is Mason a better closer than Kobe?

[scanry]

damn, lakers fans are ripping on everyone lately...

Insecure bunch of fags. :hat

BTW Lebron > Kobe

[stretch]

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." - Michael Jordan, the greatest basketball player and closer ever.

Laker fans (or really, Kobe knobslobbers) need to kindly shut the fuck up, and quit with their jealousy.

[scanry]

Derrick Rose is amazing and is quickly becoming one of my favorite players.

[pauls931]

Insecure bunch of fags. :hat

BTW Lebron > Kobe

They're just pissed the cavs currently have a better record. Looks like they're going to be tie din the loss column though.

That said, I wish this game would get over with!

[xtremesteven33]

I hate Kobe with all my heart. Believe me..

I just recognize greatness when i see it. Lebron is a great player just not as great as Kobe. Not now at least.

[Reck]

Lebron has proven time and again he's not a game closer. He simply chokes too much.

[gaKNOW!blee]

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." - Michael Jordan, the greatest basketball player and closer ever.

Laker fans (or really, Kobe knobslobbers) need to kindly shut the fuck up, and quit with their jealousy.


When was that quote? I actually heard somewhere than Michael missed 75 game winning or tying shots. Or something to that extent.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

This season:

Lebron >>> Kobe

Wade >>> Kobe

[scanry]

"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." - Michael Jordan, the greatest basketball player and closer ever.

Laker fans (or really, Kobe knobslobbers) need to kindly shut the fuck up, and quit with their jealousy.


Not according to Kobe nutslobbers.

http://www.clublakers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=105927

They actually think Kobe will end up becoming a better player than Jordan.:bang:bang:bang

Man are they a delusional fan base.:lmao

[lefty]

Just compare what the Lakers did vs Celtics last playoffs compared to the Cavs

Cavs almost beat the Celtics in 7 games, on the road.

Lakers blow a 24 pt lead in game 4 vs Boston, get destroyed in game 6, with Kobe giving up on his team, and Celtics win in 6.


End of thread

[gaKNOW!blee]

Lebron has proven time and again he's not a game closer. He simply chokes too much.


Like when exactly?

what memorable shots has Kobe made? He has NEVER had a game like the game 5 Lebron had.

Lebron over the past two seasons has been one of the best late game performers in the league.

[dirk4mvp]

Not according to Kobe nutslobbers.

http://www.clublakers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=105927

They actually think Kobe will end up becoming a better player than Jordan.:bang:bang:bang

Man are they a delusional fan base.:lmao



That's pathetic really.

[baseline bum]

Yeah, Kobe was quite the finisher when had to carry teams like LeBron. There was that time he finished in the lottery and the series with Phoenix that he finished with three losses in a row. Funny how Kobe was never a late-game assassin without his bigman to lean on the first three quarters.

[flipcritic]

Time winding down, Deng is giving you the wide open jumper to win the game. You get as good a look as possible on man coverage. You size up the shot........CLANK. Shot it too hard and the ball clanks off the back of the rim.

I'm sure Lebron's smarting from reading your post.

[Kobe™]

I will say LeBron is the most dominant player in the league
but in terms of that killer instinct, he does not yet possess.

Kobe can have a horrid shooting night, or be playing sick/injured

but still just have an amazing stretch at the end to pull out a W.

[Reck]

Like when exactly?

what memorable shots has Kobe made? He has NEVER had a game like the game 5 Lebron had.

Lebron over the past two seasons has been one of the best late game performers in the league.

I'm not defending Kobe. I'm just talking about Lebron alone.

I dont care to remember which games was it this year that he was in the same position as this and he has failed to deliver a shot when needed most. Maybe he'll get better at closing games but as of this date, he's a choker.

[Allanon]

Lakers own the best record in the NBA thanks to LeBron's un-clutch work.

LeBron is a great player but still can't close out games like Kobe.

And at this point, Kobe and MJ are pretty much tied on game winners. Too bad that Spurs 3 was wasted, he would have overtaken MJ in that stat.

[xtremesteven33]

Kobe strikes fear in the hearts of NBA fans. Lebron cant do that yet. Hes a great driver to the basket just a really bad outside shooter. Until he develops that consistent outside shot hell always be second to Kobe.

[LA24]

I remember a game last year in LA versus the Cavs...Lebron got that last shot to win the game. That's pretty clutch I would say.

[cobbler]

Like when exactly?

what memorable shots has Kobe made? He has NEVER had a game like the game 5 Lebron had.

Lebron over the past two seasons has been one of the best late game performers in the league.

Aparently you don't remember several of the series where Kobe torched the Spurs on their way to the 3 peat.

Really? The Kobe vs Jordan stuff yet again? Same ole broken record... :bang

[Allanon]

Yeah, Kobe was quite the finisher when had to carry teams like LeBron. There was that time he finished in the lottery and the series with Phoenix that he finished with three losses in a row. Funny how Kobe was never a late-game assassin without his bigman to lean on the first three quarters.

LeBron has had a MUCH better team than Kobe since Shaq left. Kobe took a D-League team to the West Playoffs. Quite an achivement.

The Cavs have been one of the top Defensive teams for at least 3 years now.

Last year was the first time Kobe had a team that could compare with Pau and Kobe made the Finals, LeBron didn't.

They both get a chance again this year.

[ElNono]

Interesting tidbit: Kobe is the best player and closer in the game, yet managed to choke away two NBA finals... MJ didn't do that...

[LA24]

Time winding down, Deng is giving you the wide open jumper to win the game. You get as good a look as possible on man coverage. You size up the shot........CLANK. Shot it too hard and the ball clanks off the back of the rim.

Kobe had clank many shots that could've won the game too...what's your point ?

[resistanze]

Why is Kobe and MJ in the same sentence of this thread title?

[Allanon]

Interesting tidbit: Kobe is the best player and closer in the game, yet managed to choke away two NBA finals... MJ didn't do that...

MJ is still > Kobe, no doubt. But Kobe has 5-6 years more to close the gap.

[scanry]

Lakers own the best record in the NBA thanks to LeBron's un-clutch work.

LeBron is a great player but still can't close out games like Kobe.

And at this point, Kobe and MJ are pretty much tied on game winners. Too bad that Spurs 3 was wasted, he would have overtaken MJ in that stat.

Care to elaborate on that?

MJ >>>>>>>>.................
..........................>>>>>>>> Kobe

[mogrovejo]

In the last 5 minutes of close games, LeBron James:

* Scores more than Kobe
* Shoots a higher percentage than Kobe
* Is more efficient than Kobe
* Rebounds more than Kobe
* Gets more assists than Kobe
* Gets more blocks than Kobe
* Gets more steals than Kobe

Kobe is better making buzzer-beaters? I don't know - there's lot of wrong perceptions when it comes to "clutch" performances - but even if true, that's not good enough: in that case, Reggie Miller would be > MJ.

[Allanon]

Care to elaborate on that?

MJ >>>>>>>>.................
..........................>>>>>>>> Kobe

Yes, MJ I believe has 25 game winners and with Kobe's game winner over Indiana a week ago, he tied Jordan. There was some article about it, I'm not sure exactly how many but it's around 25.

[ElNono]

MJ is still > Kobe, no doubt. But Kobe has 5-6 years more to close the gap.

His time ran out if you ask me... He needs to win 6 more rings being the undisputed LEADER of the team...
I will tell you I personally think he's the best player in the game right now, above Lebron. But he's nowhere near MJ.

[Allanon]

But he's nowhere near MJ.

I agree, I just don't want to count him out...just yet. Another Finals loss and yes, I will probably agree he has no chance.

[IronMexican]

Not according to Kobe nutslobbers.

http://www.clublakers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=105927

They actually think Kobe will end up becoming a better player than Jordan.:bang:bang:bang

Man are they a delusional fan base.:lmao

Apart from the OP, most agree it's not even close. Jordan is better. Not saying Kobe isn't great, but Jordan is simply better.

[baseline bum]

Yes, MJ I believe has 25 game winners and with Kobe's game winner over Indiana a week ago, he tied Jordan. There was some article about it, I'm not sure exactly how many but it's around 25.

How many of Kobe's game winners are in the Finals? The closest I can think of was him forcing OT in game 2 of the 04 Finals.

[scanry]

MJ is still > Kobe, no doubt. But Kobe has 5-6 years more to close the gap.

Close the gap on what?:lol

There isn't anything Kobe can do to close the gap on MJ. Fakers have to realize at some point that MJ has 6 Finals MVP's and ain't nobody going to win that many Finals MVP's in the near future.

[Allanon]

How many of Kobe's game winners are in the Finals? The closest I can think of was him forcing OT in game 2 of the 04 Finals.

I have no idea how many were in the Playoffs/Finals/regular season.

I just saw that article and thought it was remarkable that Kobe was tied with Jordan in game winners (regular season & Playoffs btw).

[Allanon]

Close the gap on what?:lol

There isn't anything Kobe can do to close the gap on MJ. Fakers have to realize at some point that MJ has 6 Finals MVP's and ain't nobody going to win that many Finals MVP's in the near future.

If Kobe can win 4-5 more rings, there's definitely a place for debate on who was greater.

[JoeTait75]

- Completely predictable that a LakeShow fan started this thread. Nine-time World Champions with a Who's Who of greatness in their history, yet their fanbase is comprised almost entirely of insecure chicks. Sad, really, to see a fanbase not worthy of its team.

- There is a difference between not hitting shots and choking. I've watched just about every game LBJ has played since he's come into the league. I've seen him come up large, and I've seen him come up short. I have never seen him choke.

- That having been said, LeBron played like garbage tonight.

- Kobe isn't even in the same universe as Michael Jordan.

[Reck]

Yes, MJ I believe has 25 game winners and with Kobe's game winner over Indiana a week ago, he tied Jordan. There was some article about it, I'm not sure exactly how many but it's around 25.

Congrats but that still doesn't make Kobe better than MJ.

The thing with Kobe is that he wants to be like Mike. Badly.

MJ didn't care for stats, didn't say oh if I get these and these numbers I'll be better then that guy.

Kobe in the other hand is crunching numbers in his head trying to figure out how much of this or that he needs to match MJ.

Kobe>MJ wannabe.

[scanry]

Apart from the OP, most agree it's not even close. Jordan is better. Not saying Kobe isn't great, but Jordan is simply better.

No one over here is even doubting that (atleast not me), but when some delusional Lakers fans (and insecure i might add) try to belittle Lebron. Now that is when most of us have a problem.

Again people have to realize that Lebron is only 24 and is only going to improve.

[baseline bum]

LeBron has had a MUCH better team than Kobe since Shaq left. Kobe took a D-League team to the West Playoffs. Quite an achivement.


LeBron took a D-League team to the Finals.



The Cavs have been one of the top Defensive teams for at least 3 years now.


Hard to call their 07 team all that good defensively, starting Daniel Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, and Ilgauskas. Allowing few points because you play a slow pace doesn't equate to being good defensively any more than it did with those early 2000s Knicks teams or Fratello's Cavs teams.



Last year was the first time Kobe had a team that could compare with Pau and Kobe made the Finals, LeBron didn't.

They both get a chance again this year.

Compare? Kobe's supporting cast would annihilate LeBron's. The Lakers minus Bryant would still have a shot at a 7 or 8-seed in the west. Take James off the Cavs and they'd have a shot at Blake Griffen.

[Lakers_55]

Not another one of these threads. Who cares who's better. They all are/were great and each team that had/has them is blessed.

[Allanon]

LeBron took a D-League team to the Finals.

Not at all. That was an elite defensive team. Just look at their roster against the Spurs.



Hard to call their 07 team all that good defensively, starting Daniel Gibson, Sasha Pavlovic, and Ilgauskas. Allowing few points because you play a slow pace doesn't equate to being good defensively any more than it did with those early 2000s Knicks teams or Fratello's Cavs teams.

They were ranked among the top Defensive teams in 2007.



Compare? Kobe's supporting cast would annihilate LeBron's. The Lakers minus Bryant would still have a shot at a 7 or 8-seed in the west. Take James off the Cavs and they'd have a shot at Blake Griffen.

You gotta be kidding me. Kobe had Smush, Luke, Kwame as starters, it doesn't get any worse than that. I don't even remember the bench, they were that bad. Odom was the only good player but his baby had passed away that year and he was lost.

[mogrovejo]

The '07 Cavaliers were the 4th best defensive team in the NBA (Def. Eff.), besides being the best rebounding team in the league.

They had good def. players like Varejão, a old but still serviceable Donyell Marshall, Eric Snow, etc.

I agree: Kobe's supporting cast would win 98/100 games over the LeBron-less Cavaliers, 90 of them by +10 points margin.

[stretch]

And at this point, Kobe and MJ are pretty much tied on game winners. Too bad that Spurs 3 was wasted, he would have overtaken MJ in that stat.

Prove it, dumbass.

[Allanon]

I agree: Kobe's supporting cast would win 98/100 games over the LeBron-less Cavaliers, 90 of them by +10 points margin.

Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown would have beaten the LeBron less Cavs?

You gotta be kidding me. Smush is playing in China, Luke Walton has his dad's bad wheels and 1/10th of his skill, Kwame Brown...nuff said.

[Allanon]

Prove it, dumbass.

Look it up yourself bitch.

[JoeTait75]

Not another one of these threads. Who cares who's better.

A lot of your fellow LakeShow fans...

BTW, I don't think LBJ's supporting cast is all that inferior to Kobe's, or has been for the last couple of years.

[ManuTP9]

Lebron over Kobe any day XD

[stretch]

even more funny is the chode blowing the lakers fans are doing over this one loss. good god you guys are so fucking insecure... LMAO

[stretch]

Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown would have beaten the LeBron less Cavs?

Funny that you leave Lamar Odom out.

[Allanon]

even more funny is the chode blowing the lakers fans are doing over this one loss. good god you guys are so fucking insecure... LMAO

Hahah, obviously you haven't read the Maverick threads after a loss :D

[stretch]

Can I suck Kobe's cock any more?

[Allanon]

Funny that you leave Lamar Odom out.

Sure, throw in Lamar Odom.

Pick ANY roster that Kobe took to the Playoffs that was better than the Cavs roster during that same time. Except last year of course.

[Allanon]

I'd love to suck Allanon's cock

[stretch]

Hahah, obviously you haven't read the Maverick threads after a loss :D

Um, that most people realize that the Mavericks are done, and need to make some moves?

Please STFU already.

[Allanon]

Um, that most people realize that the Mavericks are done, and need to make some moves?

Please STFU already.

Hahah, yep the realization hit but look at the threads after a nice Maverick win streak bitch. I can quote some for you if you like. :D

[m33p0]

MJ is still > Kobe, no doubt. But Kobe has 5-6 years more to close the gap.
oh noes. not again. :lmao

[mogrovejo]

Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown would have beaten the LeBron less Cavs?

You gotta be kidding me. Smush is playing in China, Luke Walton has his dad's bad wheels and 1/10th of his skill, Kwame Brown...nuff said.

I was talking about the current supporting casts. What's exactly the comparison you want to make?

[stretch]

:cry:cry:cry:cry:cry

[Allanon]

I was talking about the current supporting casts. What's exactly the comparison you want to make?

Ah, I said the OLD playoff comparisons. Obviously not right now.

Somebody said that LeBron took a D-League team to the Finals in '07. I said that's not true, that WAS a good team. But in '07, Kobe took a seriously D-League team to the West Playoffs.

LeBron's had more talent on his team than Kobe since Shaq left.

[stretch]

Hahah, yep the realization hit but look at the threads after a nice Maverick win streak bitch. I can quote some for you if you like. :D

LMAO defensive

LMAO insecure

LMAO Kobe choking 2 NBA finals while Jordan never lost yet still comparing them, not to mention Jordan is superior in basically every way possible (DPOY, MVP awards, stats, rings, etc...)

[Donkeybong]

I think without question Jordan is currently better than Kobe, however, the disparity between them isn't as big as some of you make it seem. Jordan #1, Kobe is a close second. People fail to realize that Jordan didn't have to deal with the Zone defense like Kobe does. And don't give me that no hand-checking rule crap... that shit barely gets called.

[monosylab1k]

So Allanon fantasizes about stretch sucking his dick? That's fucking GAY.

[Allanon]

LMAO defensive

LMAO insecure

Not at all, just waiting for the Lakers to bring one home this year. I'm probably the cockiest Laker fan you'll ever meet. Lakers could lose 10 in a row and I'll still think they'll bring home the rings.



LMAO Kobe choking 2 NBA finals while Jordan never lost yet still comparing them, not to mention Jordan is superior in basically every way possible (DPOY, MVP awards, stats, rings, etc...)

All true, for now.

[dirk4mvp]

I think without question Jordan is currently better than Kobe, however, the disparity between them isn't as big as some of you make it seem. Jordan #1, Kobe is a close second. People fail to realize that Jordan didn't have to deal with the Zone defense like Kobe does. And don't give me that no hand-checking rule crap... that shit barely gets called.


You wasted your time signing up to tell us this?

[monosylab1k]

while this thread is retarded, it's true that Kobe is still better than LeBron. The gap has closed considerably but LeBron isn't there yet.

[stretch]

Somebody said that LeBron took a D-League team to the Finals in '07. I said that's not true, that WAS a good team.

You're a fucking idiot to think that a team minus Lebron, that consists of Ilgauskas, Gooden, Marshall, Pavlocic, and Gibson is a good team.

[Allanon]

You're a fucking idiot to think that a team minus Lebron, that consists of Ilgauskas, Gooden, Marshall, Pavlocic, and Gibson is a good team.

I never said they were a good team without LeBron. I'm saying that cast is MUCH better than Kobe's cast. Look it up.

[gaKNOW!blee]

I think without question Jordan is currently better than Kobe, however, the disparity between them isn't as big as some of you make it seem. Jordan #1, Kobe is a close second. People fail to realize that Jordan didn't have to deal with the Zone defense like Kobe does. And don't give me that no hand-checking rule crap... that shit barely gets called.

CLOSE second? go fuck yourself. Maybe the second best SG but nowhere fucking close to second best player.

He is not close to Jordan. Look at the stats. Look at the accomplishments....Kobe is NOWHERE close. Its been debunked a million times now.

[gaKNOW!blee]

I never said they were a good team without LeBron. I'm saying that cast is MUCH better than Kobe's cast. Look it up.

MUCH better? Lebron Doesnt have a player anything close to Pau. Lebron has made a career out of carrying a bunch of players, Kobe has made of a career of getting carried.

[Donkeybong]

You wasted your time signing up to tell us this?

Ive been a lurker for a while. I just needed to lay some smack down to these gump bitches

[Allanon]

So Allanon fantasizes about stretch sucking his dick? That's fucking GAY.

He said it, not me. I was just quoting him :lol

[stretch]

I never said they were a good team without LeBron. I'm saying that cast is MUCH better than Kobe's cast. Look it up.


Somebody said that LeBron took a D-League team to the Finals in '07. I said that's not true, that WAS a good team.

STFU

:sleep

[JoeTait75]

while this thread is retarded, it's true that Kobe is still better than LeBron. The gap has closed considerably but LeBron isn't there yet.

That's fine. No problem with that take.

My problem is when people stick LeBron with the choker label. That's idiocy.

[IronMexican]

Do we have one of these threads every week?

[monosylab1k]

He said it, not me. I was just quoting him :lol

Meaning you said you suck Kobe's dick. Which is equally gay.

[Allanon]

STFU

:sleep

Do you even know how to read?

I said that LeBron took a GOOD team to the Finals. What's wrong about that? You're saying that team sucked?

[monosylab1k]

Do we have one of these threads every week?

You shoulda seen the old Kobe/MJ threads that popped up every week for a few months there.

[Allanon]

Meaning you said you suck Kobe's dick. Which is equally gay.

I guess we're just all gay.

[stretch]

Do you even know how to read?

I said that LeBron took a GOOD team to the Finals. What's wrong about that? You're saying that team sucked?

Yes. Without Lebron, they were absolute trash.

[Allanon]

Yes. Without Lebron, they were absolute trash.

Of course. The Lakers of 07 would have been even worse absolute trash. At least LeBron had NBA players, shit, Smush is in China.

[mogrovejo]

Ah, I said the OLD playoff comparisons. Obviously not right now.

Somebody said that LeBron took a D-League team to the Finals in '07. I said that's not true, that WAS a good team. But in '07, Kobe took a seriously D-League team to the West Playoffs.

LeBron's had more talent on his team than Kobe since Shaq left.

I was replying to another poster who was clearly talking about the present (he referenced that the Cavs without LeBron would have a shot at Blake Griffin and that the Lakers without Kobe would still be a play-off team).

I agree that the '07 Cavs were marginally better than the '07 Lakers. However, LeBron is much better today than he was back then.

[stretch]

Of course. The Lakers of 07 would have been even worse absolute trash. At least LeBron had NBA players, shit, Smush is in China.

and the 07 Lakers didn't get past the first round. how impressive. :rolleyes

[xtremesteven33]

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Paul
4. Duncan
5. Wade

[IronMexican]

You shoulda seen the old Kobe/MJ threads that popped up every week for a few months there.

It gets tiresome. I don't think this will ever end.

[stretch]

fact is, since Kobe is so much better, older, and more experienced, he has far less excuses for fucking up than Lebron. if he is so much better, than that should at least somewhat make up for Lebron's "superior" team. however, Lebron has never lost in the first round, unlike Kobe.

[monosylab1k]

Of course. The Lakers of 07 would have been even worse absolute trash. At least LeBron had NBA players, shit, Smush is in China.

Lamar Odom is far better than any two players on the 07 Cavs combined. And your team was coached by Phil Jackson, not Mike Brown, whose idea of coaching is sitting with a bag of popcorn watching LeBron 82 nights a year. Kobe > Lebron, but to say that Kobe's 07 team was worse than LeBron's is just stupid.

[JoeTait75]

Of course, you also have to take into account the state of the Cavaliers franchise when LeBron came into the league, which was, of course, deplorable. The Lakers at their absolute worst couldn't be as bad as the Cavaliers were in 2003, and I don't think you can find another great player who came into a situation that bad. We were pretty much at an expansion level at that point.

[Allanon]

I agree that the '07 Cavs were marginally better than the '07 Lakers. However, LeBron is much better today than he was back then.

Marginally better? I would trade Smush/Luke and Kwame for Big Z or Verajao straight up. Give me Boobie Gibson for all 3 of Devin Green/Brian Cook/Mo Evans.

[ElNono]

That Cavs team was an embarrassment. There's a reason we swept them in the Finals. We shut down Lebron and they folded right away. Detroit should have been there, but they dug their own grave when they hired Flip Saunders.

[IronMexican]

Anyways, the Office is about to start, so I will leave you guys to this retarded thread, which we will be having the same conversation about in a week.

[stretch]

LMAO didnt even think about that. lakers coaching staff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cavaliers coaching staff

[Allanon]

and the 07 Lakers didn't get past the first round. how impressive. :rolleyes

They lost to the Suns...who barely lost to the champion Spurs. There's no embarrasment in that.

[stretch]

Of course, you also have to take into account the state of the Cavaliers franchise when LeBron came into the league, which was, of course, deplorable. The Lakers at their absolute worst couldn't be as bad as the Cavaliers were in 2003, and I don't think you can find another great player who came into a situation that bad. We were pretty much at an expansion level at that point.

Good point. Lebron has done a great job of turning that once joke of a franchise around.

[Cry Havoc]

Yes, MJ I believe has 25 game winners and with Kobe's game winner over Indiana a week ago, he tied Jordan. There was some article about it, I'm not sure exactly how many but it's around 25.

That's the most retarded statistic I've ever heard. "Game-winners?" So that basically means that the game was so close you needed a buzzer beater to seal it.

How many HUNDREDS of games did Jordan "close" halfway through the THIRD quarter?

How many hundreds of times did Jordan go on a run in the early 4th to put his team up double digits?

How many thousands of shots did Jordan hit when he got on a roll and buried a team so that the game was never in doubt with 5:00 to play?

Michael Jordan annihilated teams. He bulldozed and destroyed them. He never NEEDED to hit game winners because he rarely ever put his team in a position where they COULD lose IF he missed. Jordan didn't need to drop a three with 10 seconds left on the clock and do the "I have big balls dance" because he was so good, the game was hardly ever in doubt when he was on the court.

Lakers fans and children under 16 are the ONLY people who are going to say that Kobe is even in the same REGION as Jordan. This comparison needs to end, because Jordan was RUTHLESS on the court. Kobe wants the spotlight at the end, to be the hero. Jordan didn't care about dramatics, he would put you away when he wanted, where he wanted.

6-0 in the Finals. 6 Finals MVPs. Kobe will never TOUCH that. Kobe will never merit an actual comparison to MJ to true fans of basketball.

[stretch]

They lost to the Suns...who barely lost to the champion Spurs. There's no embarrasment in that.

Just like the Cavs lost to the team that lost to the eventual champion Heat, as well as losing to the champion Spurs, as well as losing to the champion Celtics.

that is the gayest way possible to try to slob kobes knob even more. you are pathetic.

[Allanon]

Lamar Odom is far better than any two players on the 07 Cavs combined.

Odom's my boy but was very disappointing and inconsistent in '07. Big Z was by far better than Odom in '07.



but to say that Kobe's 07 team was worse than LeBron's is just stupid.

It wasn't even close. Like I said earlier...I would have traded 3 starters Kwame/Smush and Luke for Big Z straight up.

You ain't winning jack with Smush as your point guard, and Kwame as your Center.

[DrHouse]

How did I know this thread would generate 3+ pages?

Thanks for playing the part in my little social experiment.

[stretch]

That's the most retarded statistic I've ever heard. "Game-winners?" So that basically means that the game was so close you needed a buzzer beater to seal it.

How many HUNDREDS of games did Jordan "close" halfway through the THIRD quarter?

How many hundreds of times did Jordan go on a run in the early 4th to put his team up double digits?

How many thousands of shots did Jordan hit when he got on a roll and buried a team so that the game was never in doubt with 5:00 to play?

Michael Jordan annihilated teams. He bulldozed and destroyed them. He never NEEDED to hit game winners because he rarely ever put his team in a position where they COULD lose IF he missed. Jordan didn't need to drop a three with 10 seconds left on the clock and do the "I have big balls dance" because he was so good, the game was hardly ever in doubt when he was on the court.

Lakers fans and children under 16 are the ONLY people who are going to say that Kobe is even in the same REGION as Jordan. This comparison needs to end, because Jordan was RUTHLESS on the court. Kobe wants the spotlight at the end, to be the hero. Jordan didn't care about dramatics, he would put you away when he wanted, where he wanted.

6-0 in the Finals. 6 Finals MVPs. Kobe will never TOUCH that. Kobe will never merit an actual comparison to MJ to true fans of basketball.

Havoc just completely bukkaked all over allanon and all kobe knobslobbers faces.

[Allanon]

Just like the Cavs lost to the team that lost to the eventual champion Heat, as well as losing to the champion Spurs, as well as losing to the champion Celtics.

that is the gayest way possible to try to slob kobes knob even more. you are pathetic.

Sorry bitch. LeBron's team was much better than Kobe's and has been for years. Keep reaching though.

[ElNono]

Playing devil's advocate here for a bit, but Lebron never lost in the first round because he plays in the Leastern conference, where the last 2 or 3 seeds normally have a record under .500...

[stretch]

It wasn't even close. Like I said earlier...I would have traded 3 starters Kwame/Smush and Luke for Big Z straight up.

You ain't winning jack with Smush as your point guard, and Kwame as your Center.

Just like im sure the Cavs would have traded boobie, gooden, and marshall for Odom, straight up. :rolleyes

[stretch]

Sorry bitch. LeBron's team was much better than Kobe's and has been for years. Keep reaching though.

lame.

i'm goin to bed.

LMAO kobe cockgobblers

[JoeTait75]

Playing devil's advocate here for a bit, but Lebron never lost in the first round because he plays in the Leastern conference, where the last 2 or 3 seeds normally have a record under .500...

Fair point, but at the same time the Cavaliers have competed very well against teams with far better records (Pistons in '06 and '07, C's in '08) with the notable exception of the Spurs in the '07 Finals. Other than the Finals, LeBron's playoff losses were in road Game 7's against a 64-win Detroit team and a 66-win Boston team.

[Allanon]

That's the most retarded statistic I've ever heard. "Game-winners?" So that basically means that the game was so close you needed a buzzer beater to seal it.

How many HUNDREDS of games did Jordan "close" halfway through the THIRD quarter?

How many hundreds of times did Jordan go on a run in the early 4th to put his team up double digits?

How many thousands of shots did Jordan hit when he got on a roll and buried a team so that the game was never in doubt with 5:00 to play?

Michael Jordan annihilated teams. He bulldozed and destroyed them. He never NEEDED to hit game winners because he rarely ever put his team in a position where they COULD lose IF he missed. Jordan didn't need to drop a three with 10 seconds left on the clock and do the "I have big balls dance" because he was so good, the game was hardly ever in doubt when he was on the court.

Lakers fans and children under 16 are the ONLY people who are going to say that Kobe is even in the same REGION as Jordan. This comparison needs to end, because Jordan was RUTHLESS on the court. Kobe wants the spotlight at the end, to be the hero. Jordan didn't care about dramatics, he would put you away when he wanted, where he wanted.

6-0 in the Finals. 6 Finals MVPs. Kobe will never TOUCH that. Kobe will never merit an actual comparison to MJ to true fans of basketball.

Nobody said that Kobe was greater than MJ, at least not here.

The stat is exactly what it is. Kobe and MJ have the same # of game winners. You can let it bother you that they're tied in this stat or not or just accept it as what it is.

[DrHouse]

I've learned long ago never to argue with a Mavs fan. It takes a certain kind of character to take the relentless letdowns that the Mavs manufacture season after season. It's best to just leave them alone and let them say what they want.

I think someone once told me arguing with a Mavs fan is like fighting with a midget.

[j-money24]

i would take lebrons supporting cast over kobes supporting cast..
you know why!
coz they play defense while kobes supporting cast play offense.
kobes teammates<lebrons teammates
kobe>lebron

[ElNono]

Fair point, but at the same time the Cavaliers have competed very well against teams with far better records (Pistons in '06 and '07, C's in '08) with the notable exception of the Spurs in the '07 Finals. Other than the Finals, LeBron's playoff losses were in road Game 7's against a 64-win Detroit team and a 66-win Boston team.

Lebron in general always does well. Just like Kobe, Duncan, etc. The thing is, when you play good defensive teams that are able to slow you down, who else can step up and play? I think the only two great defensive teams he faced in the playoffs so far are the Spurs in 07 and Boston in 08. The Pistons have not been the same defensive team since Larry Brown left. Lebron did good against the C's, so I think he's getting better.

[Allanon]

Just like im sure the Cavs would have traded boobie, gooden, and marshall for Odom, straight up. :rolleyes

In 2007, I would have done it. Straight up.

Hell even now, some Laker fans want to trade Odom for Drew Gooden.

[ducks]

LeBron took a D-League team to the Finals.



kobe could have got atleast a w against the spurs in the finals
the east was very week that year
did cavs even face a team that won 50 game that in in the playoffs before finals

[Allanon]

lame.

i'm goin to bed.

LMAO kobe cockgobblers

Good night. We'll talk some more Kobe tomorrow.

[ClingingMars]

So Allanon fantasizes about stretch sucking his dick? That's fucking GAY.

+1

-Mars

[dirk4mvp]

I've got to let everyone know I'm here without actually posting something with relevance, so here it it.


+1

-Berries

[Kobe™]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/38/84281842_53bd813a41.jpg
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2006-01/09/xin_52010309113555200412.jpg

[Lakers_55]

Here folks, consider this:

Never argue with an idiot.
They will bring you down to their level
and beat you with experience.

[DrHouse]

I just heard on TNT that Lebron James is 3 of 22 in shots made in the last 5 seconds of the game.

:lmao

[JoeTait75]

I just heard on TNT that Lebron James is 3 of 22 in shots made in the last 5 seconds of the game.

:lmao

So you can take Kobe in the last five seconds.

I'll take LeBron in the first 47 minutes and 55 seconds.

[Kobe™]

The Cleveland drought

[TheMACHINE]

As usual...the thread is about Lebron vs Kobe, yet everyone wants to compare Kobe to MJ, either defending or agreeing with it. Regardless if you think Kobe is close or not to MJ, the fact that the topic is brought up says alot.

[TheMACHINE]

I like to add that "kobe jockers" arnt the first one to bring up Jordan and Kobe comparisons.

[mystargtr34]

Some Spurs fans hatred for the Lakers and their fans just makes them look plain ol stupid. End of the third quarter last night, and the interviewer asked Coach Pop. What do you need to do to keep this lead. Pops reply... 4th quarter is Kobe time!!!

Game recognizes game.

Of course, Pop is class.

If asked about Tim Duncan, PJ would go on about the referees not calling fouls or missed calls in the game.

He represents the Lakers franchise perfectly.

[mystargtr34]

As usual...the thread is about Lebron vs Kobe, yet everyone wants to compare Kobe to MJ, either defending or agreeing with it. Regardless if you think Kobe is close or not to MJ, the fact that the topic is brought up says alot.

Not really.

[JoeTait75]

I like to add that "kobe jockers" arnt the first one to bring up Jordan and Kobe comparisons.

:lol

[KidCongo]

kobe could have got atleast a w against the spurs in the finals
the east was very week that year
did cavs even face a team that won 50 game that in in the playoffs before finals

Detroit Pistons.

[YellowFever]

That's the most retarded statistic I've ever heard. "Game-winners?" So that basically means that the game was so close you needed a buzzer beater to seal it.

How many HUNDREDS of games did Jordan "close" halfway through the THIRD quarter?

How many hundreds of times did Jordan go on a run in the early 4th to put his team up double digits?

How many thousands of shots did Jordan hit when he got on a roll and buried a team so that the game was never in doubt with 5:00 to play?

Michael Jordan annihilated teams. He bulldozed and destroyed them. He never NEEDED to hit game winners because he rarely ever put his team in a position where they COULD lose IF he missed. Jordan didn't need to drop a three with 10 seconds left on the clock and do the "I have big balls dance" because he was so good, the game was hardly ever in doubt when he was on the court.

Lakers fans and children under 16 are the ONLY people who are going to say that Kobe is even in the same REGION as Jordan. This comparison needs to end, because Jordan was RUTHLESS on the court. Kobe wants the spotlight at the end, to be the hero. Jordan didn't care about dramatics, he would put you away when he wanted, where he wanted.

6-0 in the Finals. 6 Finals MVPs. Kobe will never TOUCH that. Kobe will never merit an actual comparison to MJ to true fans of basketball.

Gee.... I dunno,

Maybe you should do an analysis of how many thousands of shots MJ shot in the third or second quarters to put games away and how many Kobe shot in the third and second to put teams away.

I said this before and I'll say it again:

Anybody who thinks MJ was the greatest of all time is just as stupid as those who says Kobe is anywhere near MJ.

[Obstructed_View]

Anybody who thinks MJ was the greatest of all time is just as stupid as those who says Kobe is anywhere near MJ.

Somebody who thinks MJ is the greatest of all time can at least make a substantive argument to support their position. Bottom line, though, is that Jordan is orders of magnitude better than Kobe has ever been or will ever be.

[TheMadHatter]

I love it when people throw out terms like "orders of magnitude".

The greatest player I've ever seen play this game is Wilt Chamberlain. 99% of you are way too young to have seen him play. He was quite simply the most dominating player ever. He'd absolutely demolish the competition today. We're talking LBJ freakish athleticism in a 7ft frame.

[Killakobe81]

I hate Kobe with all my heart. Believe me..

I just recognize greatness when i see it. Lebron is a great player just not as great as Kobe. Not now at least.

Exactly Manu and Tim are better closers as well ...

[Cry Havoc]

I love it when people throw out terms like "orders of magnitude".

The greatest player I've ever seen play this game is Wilt Chamberlain. 99% of you are way too young to have seen him play. He was quite simply the most dominating player ever. He'd absolutely demolish the competition today. We're talking LBJ freakish athleticism in a 7ft frame.

And I'd love to see him play against today's stars. But that can't happen. But you act like there is no video out of Wilt. There is, and I've watched a LOT of past players on youtube.

I've seen very little to suggest that Wilt would dominate today's NBA like he did in the past. He played in a center starved league where the players were smaller, less agile, and far less athletic than today. Say ALL you want about how dominant you remember him to be -- look up the videos on youtube. Would he be a good center today? Without a doubt. But to think he would be able to dominate the NBA... from what I've seen, he reminds me a lot of David Robinson. LeBron in a 7'1" frame? Come on. There's a little more to James than his ability to look down at the rim when he jumps. Wilt didn't have half the ball control skills that James does, doesn't have the passing ability, I don't care WHAT you say, because you can call on your memory all you want. WATCH the videos. Those soft finger rolls he shoots about 30 times a game would be swatted into the 17th row of the stands by today's bigs. It's easy to be insanely dominant when you have 5-7 inches on most other players on the court.

I am NOT attempting to take anything away from Wilt. He was a freak of nature and by far the most dominant player of his time. But Jordan has the rings, at a time when the NBA was in one of it's Golden Ages, which we could be swinging into another now with the talent that's rising.

The best ever? You gotta win, baby.

Edit: You know what? The hell with it. I'll just link you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QmhTWmAaBc

Wow. Exactly what am I supposed to get from watching Wilt play, other than no one else on the court was even close to his height to have a chance to block those little fadeaways and floaters? Exactly what about his game is incomparable to today's elite big men? It's also VERY apparently that NONE of the players he went up against had any concept, not one fucking iota of an idea of how to play BASIC POST DEFENSE. Duncan would average 40PPG+ against that kind of spacing! If anything, Wilt resembles Hakeem in this video. Which, yes, is still utterly amazing, but not the GOAT. Not a chance.

[Killakobe81]

Somebody who thinks MJ is the greatest of all time can at least make a substantive argument to support their position. Bottom line, though, is that Jordan is orders of magnitude better than Kobe has ever been or will ever be.

for now ... MJ>Kobe>LeBron
Lebron maybe on top someday ...needs to improve as a closer ...

[baseline bum]

You gotta be kidding me. Kobe had Smush, Luke, Kwame as starters, it doesn't get any worse than that. I don't even remember the bench, they were that bad. Odom was the only good player but his baby had passed away that year and he was lost.

I was talking about now. LeBron has never had anything close to the luxury of the depth or supporting bigmen Kobe has had most of his career; especially now.

[baseline bum]

I think without question Jordan is currently better than Kobe, however, the disparity between them isn't as big as some of you make it seem. Jordan #1, Kobe is a close second. People fail to realize that Jordan didn't have to deal with the Zone defense like Kobe does. And don't give me that no hand-checking rule crap... that shit barely gets called.

:lmao Close second? Is there any year of his career Jordan wouldn't have won a ring paired with Shaq?

[timvp]

I think without question Jordan is currently better than Kobe, however, the disparity between them isn't as big as some of you make it seem. Jordan #1, Kobe is a close second. People fail to realize that Jordan didn't have to deal with the Zone defense like Kobe does. And don't give me that no hand-checking rule crap... that shit barely gets called.What in the hell? I'd take one MJ over two Kobes. That's especially true considering that one of the Kobe's would demand that the other Kobe be traded.

Kobe is a damn good player but he can be highly overrated at times. He hasn't won anything without Shaq. In fact, Dwyane Wade won a championship with a much worse version of Shaq than Kobe ever did. Kobe was always a distant second best player in the Lakers championship teams.

Amazing talent but before you can put Kobe and MJ in the same paragraph, he has to do something without Shaq. Until then, his Shaq-less resume is basically the same as Dirk's.

[baseline bum]

What in the hell? I'd take one MJ over two Kobes. That's especially true considering that one of the Kobe's would demand that the other Kobe be traded.

:lol

[Allanon]

I was talking about now. LeBron has never had anything close to the luxury of the depth or supporting bigmen Kobe has had most of his career; especially now.

Even now, I think LeBron has a better supporting cast. The Cavs play defense, something that alot of the Laker players don't know how to do. Oh yeah, they're an offensive juggernaut but defense has been lacking.

Kobe/Ariza/Odom are the only very good defensive players. Bynum & Vujacic are up and down on defense and pretty much the rest are mediocre.

I'd go as far as to say if you switched roles, I'd like Kobe's Cavaliers chances better this year than LeBron's Lakers.

The only reason why the Cavs wouldn't win a championship this year is because LeBron doesn't win last minute games.

It's a cliche but Defense wins championships. LeBron's team has the defense but no closer. Kobe's team has the closer but not the consistent defense.

Put Kobe on the Cavs and they would be unstoppable.

[Rogue]

Kobe is the best player on the planet.

Lebron cant hit a walk away game wininng shot. Kobe has done it hundreds of times.
Lebron is over Kobe, together with hundreds of other players like Dirk, TD, or even T-Mac.

http://i409.photobucket.com/albums/pp180/killlogan/1zl3msx.jpg?t=1232112968

I know you're gonna thank me for fixing this photo, you're welcome :lol

[resistanze]

As usual...the thread is about Lebron vs Kobe, yet everyone wants to compare Kobe to MJ, either defending or agreeing with it.
You must've missed the thread title.

[JoeTait75]

Put Kobe on the Cavs and they would be unstoppable.

:rollin

[KidCongo]

:rollin

+1000000000000000

[resistanze]

Cavs' record against the West in 2006-07 (made it to finals): 19-11
Lakers' record against the West in 2005-06 (1st round loss): 27-25

Leastern Conference arguments against Cavs' success = FAIL.

[stretch]

Regardless if you think Kobe is close or not to MJ, the fact that the topic is brought up says alot.

All it says is that Kobe fans are insecure and jealous of MJ and Lebron. Notice, its not a bunch of Cavs fans making these threads. Its not a bunch of MJ fans. Its always Kobe and Laker fans.

[stretch]

Anybody who thinks MJ was the greatest of all time is just as stupid as those who says Kobe is anywhere near MJ.

You're a fucking idiot.

[JoeTait75]

LakeShow fan should be equipped with a dog collar that trasmits a powerful electric shock whenever they say the words "LeBron James." Just to save them from themselves.

FYI, Allanon: Cleveland was missing three starters last night. Three. I know LBJ played very poorly, but even with just Delonte, they win going away. Try not to read too much out of one game when it comes to making grand assessments about LeBron's ability as a "closer." I know you're a LakeShow fan, so you probably can't help yourself, but at least try.

And Kobe, while undeniably a great player, would have never made it in Cleveland. He'd have run screaming from the challenge of rebuilding this franchise. Fact.

[stretch]

The greatest player I've ever seen play this game is Wilt Chamberlain.

Arguably one of the two most overrated players ever, along with Bill Russel. Both were fantastic players, but were way ahead of their time, dominating a small league, loaded with unathletic, short white guys. Not to mention, their two teams were loaded with a lot of the other top players in their era. The competition they faced was pathetic.

The league is so much more superior today, its not even funny.

[dirk4mvp]

The attitude most Laker fans have towards LeBron has got to be the biggest case of penis envy I have ever seen.

[Obstructed_View]

I love it when people throw out terms like "orders of magnitude".
Maybe you could have someone look it up for you.


The greatest player I've ever seen play this game is Wilt Chamberlain. 99% of you are way too young to have seen him play. He was quite simply the most dominating player ever. He'd absolutely demolish the competition today. We're talking LBJ freakish athleticism in a 7ft frame.
He didn't even demolish the competition in his own era. Ask the Celtics. But I forgot, you're a guy who hangs more on statistical performances than on team success, which is why you're a Kobe fan.

[urunobili]

LeBron would destroy MJ one on one even on his prime

[hater]

:lmao

Lebron is already better than Kobe.

Lebron would be working on his 2nd ring if he had the Lakers talent around him. :lol

[Medvedenko]

Look this debate will rage on year from year. Regardless of what we'll all say and what our opinions are they are just that. Who fucking cares. My opinion I say when it's all said and done Kobe will be on par with Jordan. I believe as a player he's already surpassed MJ. Now you can throw stats and rings all you want, that's not what I'm argueing about. Timing is everything in life.....

[scanry]

Of course, Pop is class.

If asked about Tim Duncan, PJ would go on about the referees not calling fouls or missed calls in the game.

He represents the Lakers franchise perfectly.

Exactly, and unlike PJ, Pop has a pair to admit the truth and give the opposition credit.

PJ is a douche and no wonder every broadcasting crew hardly give him any credit. BTW even Mark Ivaroni would have 800+ wins if he had MJ, Scottie, Shaq & Kobe.:rolleyes

[hater]

Look this debate will rage on year from year. Regardless of what we'll all say and what our opinions are they are just that. Who fucking cares. My opinion I say when it's all said and done Kobe will be on par with Jordan. I believe as a player he's already surpassed MJ. Now you can throw stats and rings all you want, that's not what I'm argueing about. Timing is everything in life.....

Laker fans have no business in this debate because they are biased. Same thing for Cav fans.

you cannot compare either KObe or Lebron with MJ right now. Dude won 3 rings, took 1 year off to play baseball, came back and won 3 more. there is no comparison and noone should be named along with MJ inthe same sentence.

Me as a neutral fan, see Lebron as better overall and I would pick him ahead of Kobe even if both were the same age. Kobe is no slouch but he is just not better than Lebron plain and simple.

Kobe is the greatest current human basketball player. Lebron is a genetically engineered monster.

[JoeTait75]

I would never compare LeBron to MJ. Not only do I not think he's as good as MJ, he simply isn't the same type of player in terms of size, position, and skill set.

LeBron reminds me a lot more of Magic Johnson than MJ. Same kind of versatility, court vision, positive leadership, and broke-ass jump shot.

[scanry]

Look this debate will rage on year from year. Regardless of what we'll all say and what our opinions are they are just that. Who fucking cares. My opinion I say when it's all said and done Kobe will be on par with Jordan. I believe as a player he's already surpassed MJ. Now you can throw stats and rings all you want, that's not what I'm argueing about. Timing is everything in life.....


Pull your head out of Kobe's ass and smell the fresh air around you for once.

At the moment, even Shaq & Duncan >>>>> Kobe, and unless Kobe leads his team to 3 championships, i'll rest my case.

MJ would school Kobe 99 times out of 100.:lol

[peskypesky]

I would never compare LeBron to MJ. Not only do I not think he's as good as MJ, he simply isn't the same type of player in terms of size, position, and skill set.

LeBron reminds me a lot more of Magic Johnson than MJ. Same kind of versatility, court vision, positive leadership, and broke-ass jump shot.

Lebron like Magic? I don't see that. To me they have totally different types of games. Magic was a classic PG, passing first, shooting second. Lebron is more like a classic SG (although in the body of a power forward). Lebron is all about slashing or powering his way to the bucket first, shooting a jump shot second, and passing third. Not that there's anything wrong with that, and he has very respectable stats for assists, so he's not a ball-hog. Lebron is also known for his hops, on both ends of the court, and I don't think Magic could dunk or block a shot (could he?).

One way in which they are similar is that Magic was the size of a forward but played PG, and Lebron is the size of a PF but plays SG or SF. But I don't think there's anyone who's ever been like Magic, and nobody really like Lebron.

[TheMadHatter]

One player by his lonesome cannot win championships.

It takes a team. Some players never get the chance to be surrounded by other great players and a good coach. That's all about timing and luck and has almost nothing to do with an individual's skill level. So if we're going to compare players I think the "rings" argument really needs to be toned down as that has FAR more to do with things external to what an individual player can control.

[gaKNOW!blee]

One player by his lonesome cannot win championships.

It takes a team. Some players never get the chance to be surrounded by other great players and a good coach. That's all about timing and luck and has almost nothing to do with an individual's skill level. So if we're going to compare players I think the "rings" argument really needs to be toned down as that has FAR more to do with things external to what an individual player can control.

So what about things a player CAN control? Like being up 20+ pts in an NBA Finals game and not closing the deal??

[turiaf for president]

CLOSE second? go fuck yourself. Maybe the second best SG but nowhere fucking close to second best player.

He is not close to Jordan. Look at the stats. Look at the accomplishments....Kobe is NOWHERE close. Its been debunked a million times now.

then compare lebrons stats and accomplishments to kobe's. HE is nowhere close.......

[DrHouse]

So what about things a player CAN control? Like being up 20+ pts in an NBA Finals game and not closing the deal??

You can't talk shit. The Lakers owned you 4-1.

[Medvedenko]

Pull your head out of Kobe's ass and smell the fresh air around you for once.

At the moment, even Shaq & Duncan >>>>> Kobe, and unless Kobe leads his team to 3 championships, i'll rest my case.

MJ would school Kobe 99 times out of 100.:lol

Dude, what part of my post don't you get....I'm not talking about team accomplishments like winning the championship.....I'm talking based on talent and skills where I see Kobe is on the same ground overall, with both players exceeding each other, see Kobe better shooter, Jordan better finisher (bigger hands etc).

Oh and the Lebron thing is funny....look up Kobe's stats when he was the same age as Lebron at 24.

[DrHouse]

In terms of pure skill and talent I think Kobe is definitely on par with MJ. He can definitely be mentioned in the same sentence.

What I love about Kobe is that he is truly becoming a better player with age. He's playing the best basketball of his career at 30.

[Thunder Dan]

when you have a guy that can give you a triple double every night, which Kobe can't, you normally don't have to depend on him to hit a game winning shot. Wheras the Cavs play defense, and rarley have to have Lebron hit a game winning shot, the Lakers don't, which is why Kobe needs to hit so many

[DrHouse]

when you have a guy that can give you a triple double every night, which Kobe can't, you normally don't have to depend on him to hit a game winning shot. Wheras the Cavs play defense, and rarley have to have Lebron hit a game winning shot, the Lakers don't, which is why Kobe needs to hit so many

Lebron shouldn't be mentioned with MJ and Kobe. His game is completely different IMHO.

[Thunder Dan]

Lebron shouldn't be mentioned with MJ and Kobe. His game is completely different IMHO.
Who is mentioning him with them? You, the guy that made the thread about it.

Lebron and Kobe are different- but they are still both great. If you polled the NBA GM's and told them you could start a team with either Lebron or Kobe, I'm sure it would be close to a 50/50 vote.

I mean argue what you want, the both of them have the same number of rings when they are the leaders of their teams. They are different, but just being able to hit shots with a minute left doesn't make you better. If we were judging who is the best NBA player as to who hits the most clutch shots, Robert Horry would be the best player in NBA history. The game is 48 minutes, and baskets in the first quarter count the same as ones in the 4th.

[dirk4mvp]

he has very respectable stats for assists, so he's not a ball-hog.



Since when are assists directly related to judging if a player is a ball hog or not?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Lebron shouldn't be mentioned with MJ and Kobe. His game is completely different IMHO.

You're gonna disagree here but LeBron's game seems more like MJ's than Kobe's. Neither one plays as much like MJ as Dwayne Wade (I'm not saying he's better than Kobe so don't flip out Lakaluva, just saying he's more similar to MJ).

[nkdlunch]

its funny lakerfans hold on to the "skills and talent" BS to compare Kobe to Jordan. 2 things that really can't be measured :rolleyes

The only FACT is that Jordan completely owned the league in his championship years. The same cannot be said about Kobe in any of his years.

He doesn't even have a championship without Shaq's help for christsakes! how delusional can lakerfan be???? its pathetic

[Killakobe81]

Ok I normally ignore these posts because many are biased for Kobe and many are against him in many online forums ...let me make some valid rebuttals to many uninformed biased statements made here and on Lakersground, ESPN etc.
Lebron is physically better so he is the better player-
In the open court with the ball in his hands he is a force of nature and no one in the game is better ...ever..agreed. So if that makes him better than Kobe ...Shaq is better than Duncan and also So is Dwight Howard... never mind the titles or the MVP's Dwight Howard is better than Timmy because when he gets the ball down low he can not be stopped?...wrong. See how silly this reasoning is. Duncan is the Kobe of PF's ...he is not as athletic as he once was but fundamentals, skill etc. it's NOT even close and no one in their right mind would take Howard over Duncan RIGHT NOW if they are trying to win a title.
Next argument: Stats favor Lebron now and Mj over Kobe all-time.
Mj has best scoring average etc. Lebron's numbers this season are ridiculous ...BUT because Kobe and MJ started so early they will beat a lot of Mj's numbers because they started younger ...does that make them better than MJ? Or is stats are all that matter than Karl Malone/Barkley are the greatest power forwards because rebounds and scoring numbers are greater than Tim's? No. Robinson was an eveb better stat guy than Duncan ...but who was the better all-around and clutch player? Duncan. Im not sayong Lebron can not be clutch ...when he is hitting his 3 he is unstoppable ...but how often is that? Kobe has proven even when not playing well he can kill you with late game 3's lasy night Lebron was gaurded 1 on1 with the game on the line with defender backing off begging him to shoot ...who would of ever played MJ or Kobe that way? Who would play Manu that way for that matter?!
Titles and Finals MVP's are all that matter so MJ is way better than Kobe. Best argument and to be honest I dont diasgree with this one entirely but let me say this ...
Shaq has as many titles and Finals MVP's as Tim Duncan ...but who has done MORE for ALL four of his titles? Shaq was dominant force yet but when you consider clutch shooting, pnr defense, Ft shooting, etc. Is not Tim Duncan a better player than Shaq?

I feel MJ is the standard and Kobe is not to distant second ...LBJ has the POTENTIAL to be better than them both but he is far from that yet. Physicall he is even better than MJ. But fundamentals wise and overall he is 3rd.

I also feel Duncan is better than Shaq like i have said here many times as dominat as Shaq was inside I wanted to trade Duncan for Shaq since his rookie year in the NBA ...(i was not as impressed with Tim in College Rasheed and Camby used to bust his ass) Tim is the best center/power forward since Kareem and since the spurs play small so much i consider him a center and when you compare him to Shaq he comes out on top ...
Howard mmay be better someday but I dont think so ...he will be dominant physically but his skill-set is not there and even though he will improve doubt his foot-work will ever be in Tim's class ...and I dount LBJ's jumper will be in Mj's or Kobe's class ...

[Cry Havoc]

One player by his lonesome cannot win championships.

It takes a team. Some players never get the chance to be surrounded by other great players and a good coach. That's all about timing and luck and has almost nothing to do with an individual's skill level. So if we're going to compare players I think the "rings" argument really needs to be toned down as that has FAR more to do with things external to what an individual player can control.

Put Jordan on the Lakers last year. Do they lose to the Celtics? No freaking way.

[dirk4mvp]

Put Jordan on the Lakers last year. Do they lose to the Celtics? No freaking way.


There's absolutely no way in hell Jordan would let himself get outperformed by Paul frickin Pierce.

[DrHouse]

Put Jordan on the Lakers last year. Do they lose to the Celtics? No freaking way.

Absolutely. They lose in much the same manner, maybe it takes 7 games but they still lose.

The Laker's problem last season had to do with rebounding, physicality, and protecting the paint. Jordan doesn't really help you in any of those areas.

[Killakobe81]

better point put LBJ on last year's Lakers do they win ...still no ...

[Killakobe81]

In terms of pure skill and talent I think Kobe is definitely on par with MJ. He can definitely be mentioned in the same sentence.

What I love about Kobe is that he is truly becoming a better player with age. He's playing the best basketball of his career at 30.


Absolutely. They lose in much the same manner, maybe it takes 7 games but they still lose.

The Laker's problem last season had to do with rebounding, physicality, and protecting the paint. Jordan doesn't really help you in any of those areas.


There's absolutely no way in hell Jordan would let himself get outperformed by Paul frickin Pierce.

Ok sow how Did LBJ let that happen in game 7?
How did MJ get outplayed by Penny in his 1st year back from baseball? Silly argument ...just like the MJ would of won 6 straight titles won you fools have no respect for Olajawon way to blind to ESPN hype ...MJ was the best of the 90's but nOT infallible ...

[Medvedenko]

Put Jordan on the Lakers last year. Do they lose to the Celtics? No freaking way.


Just stop really.....

You probably never even seen Jordan play. The way you write about him makes feel you a vested interest in keeping his legacy alive. It's like the dude never made a mistake or never got outperformed. Please.....It's all timing my friend. Was he a beast in the playoffs...yes, but didn't do well until he got some talent and coaching around him. This goes for every special player out there.

[nkdlunch]

Absolutely. They lose in much the same manner, maybe it takes 7 games but they still lose.

The Laker's problem last season had to do with rebounding, physicality, and protecting the paint. Jordan doesn't really help you in any of those areas.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Kobe choked. that is the main reason they lost. take your homer glasses off and face reality.

Jordan would easily have won last year. He would have absolutely owned Paul Pierce. shit. comeon is this for real??????

Kobe let Garnett get a ring. :bang :bang

[Killakobe81]

And to be honest I really dont care if LBJ is the best individual player in the NBA ...i still think both duncan and Kobe are the best inside outside players in the game ...even though Howard and LBJ are more dominant on a nightly basis ...come playoff time im pretty sure that will be proven out ...

[nkdlunch]

It's like the dude never made a mistake or never got outperformed.

when did Jordan get outperformed after he won his first championship???? name 1 playoff series.

[Killakobe81]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Kobe choked. that is the main reason they lost. take your homer glasses off and face reality.

Jordan would easily have won last year. He would have absolutely owned Paul Pierce. shit. comeon is this for real??????

Kobe let Garnett get a ring. :bang :bang

Silly ....Ok Duncan let Dirk get to a Finals ....and win an MVP and eliminate the Spurs from a back2back some of you are so ignorant on here ...

[nkdlunch]

Silly ....Ok Duncan let Dirk get to a Finals ....and win an MVP and eliminate the Spurs from a back2back some of you are so ignorant on here ...

absolutely. I am not delusional to say Duncan is better or as good as Jordan. lakerfan on the other hand...

[DrHouse]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Kobe choked. that is the main reason they lost. take your homer glasses off and face reality.

Jordan would easily have won last year. He would have absolutely owned Paul Pierce. shit. comeon is this for real??????

Kobe let Garnett get a ring. :bang :bang

The Celtic's defense was geared towards stopping one player, Kobe Bryant. It was up to his teammates to step it up and they were unable to do so. The Celtics held Lebron to freaking 19% shooting for the 1st couple of games, give them some credit.

Jordan would have scored a few more points than Kobe at a higher percentage but that really wouldn't make a difference in the final outcome.

The Lakers didn't lose because of their offense. They lost because of their defense. Michael Jordan does not make Pau Gasol a protector at the rim, he doesn't make the Lakers physical and tough in the paint, he doesn't make the Lakers rebound better, he doesn't turn Radmanovich into an all-world defender to stop Pierce, he doesn't stop Ray Allen from going nuts from behind the arc. In all the areas the Lakers needed help in defensively, Jordan doesn't change much. He's only one man and could only guard one player at a time. Hence, the end result is the same.

[Cry Havoc]

Just stop really.....

You probably never even seen Jordan play. The way you write about him makes feel you a vested interest in keeping his legacy alive. It's like the dude never made a mistake or never got outperformed. Please.....It's all timing my friend. Was he a beast in the playoffs...yes, but didn't do well until he got some talent and coaching around him. This goes for every special player out there.

Yeah, I've never seen Jordan play.

Except.... OOPS. I'm from Chicago. I could give you personal accounts of the ridiculousness of the celebrations in Chicago, especially for the first two titles. Nice try, but you fail miserably.

And you DEFINITELY have no interest in keeping comparisons of Kobe to the GOAT alive, do you? Nope, not at all. You're completely unbiased in this situation.

You Laker fans are just fucking pathetic. Do you really think ANYONE is listening to your ridiculous tripe about how good Kobe is?

[Cry Havoc]

Silly ....Ok Duncan let Dirk get to a Finals ....and win an MVP and eliminate the Spurs from a back2back some of you are so ignorant on here ...

Jordan is a much better player than Duncan. Just like he's a much better player than Kobe, and a much better player than James. I'm not saying LeBron is a better player than Jordan. He isn't CLOSE yet. But neither is Kobe.

[Killakobe81]

Im NOt argouing that Kobe is better than MJ my point is Kobe is better than LBJ ....don't pin that on me in fact I dont think Kobe is better than Magic yet ....

[nkdlunch]

The Celtic's defense was geared towards stopping one player, Kobe Bryant. It was up to his teammates to step it up and they were unable to do so. The Celtics held Lebron to freaking 19% shooting for the 1st couple of games, give them some credit.

Jordan would have scored a few more points than Kobe at a higher percentage but that really wouldn't make a difference in the final outcome.

The Lakers didn't lose because of their offense. They lost because of their defense. Michael Jordan does not make Pau Gasol a protector at the rim, he doesn't make the Lakers physical and tough in the paint, he doesn't make the Lakers rebound better, he doesn't turn Radmanovich into an all-world defender to stop Pierce, he doesn't stop Ray Allen from going nuts from behind the arc. In all the areas the Lakers needed help in defensively, Jordan doesn't change much. He's only one man and could only guard one player at a time. Hence, the end result is the same.

ok, now you are just being stupid. Celtics defense is nothing compared to the defenses that Jordan faced. He beat the bad boys of Detroit. Kobe would have cried to his momma if he ever faced that defense.

in Jordan's championship years, opposing teams defense was absolutely geared to stop Jordan. and they couldn't. and the defenses they played back then is immensely superior to today's defenses.

The rules have changed now, Jordan, in today's league would absolutely anihilate the celtics defense.

[timvp]

Lakers fans are amazingly delusional.

[turiaf for president]

ok some of you guy's hatred for kobe is ridiculous. yes jordan is the GOAT and if you say kobe is "no where near MJ" "doesnt belong in the same galaxy" "is a rapist" etc......... yall are just hating and you know it. kobe belongs in the same sentence as jordan because he is the best in the game in his time, plays both ends of the floor, is the best at closing games in his era, the most feared player with time winding down, and has multiple championships

[JoeTait75]

Lebron like Magic? I don't see that. To me they have totally different types of games. Magic was a classic PG, passing first, shooting second. Lebron is more like a classic SG (although in the body of a power forward). Lebron is all about slashing or powering his way to the bucket first, shooting a jump shot second, and passing third. Not that there's anything wrong with that, and he has very respectable stats for assists, so he's not a ball-hog. Lebron is also known for his hops, on both ends of the court, and I don't think Magic could dunk or block a shot (could he?).

One way in which they are similar is that Magic was the size of a forward but played PG, and Lebron is the size of a PF but plays SG or SF. But I don't think there's anyone who's ever been like Magic, and nobody really like Lebron.

I think LeBron is a little more of a natural facilitator than a natural scorer. IMO he'd be perfectly happy as the second scoring option on a team. He doesn't need to score a lot to be effective. He is more athletic than Magic, to be sure. I'm thinking more in terms of the ability to dominate a game without taking or making a lot of shots, which they both have.

The irony of this never-ending Kobe-LeBron debate is that they'd make perfect teammates. LeBron would gladly let Kobe take the shots down the stretch and play the Pippen role, I think.

[turiaf for president]

I think LeBron is a little more of a natural facilitator than a natural scorer. IMO he'd be perfectly happy as the second scoring option on a team. He doesn't need to score a lot to be effective. He is more athletic than Magic, to be sure. I'm thinking more in terms of the ability to dominate a game without taking or making a lot of shots, which they both have.

The irony of this never-ending Kobe-LeBron debate is that they'd make perfect teammates. LeBron would gladly let Kobe take the shots down the stretch and play the Pippen role, I think.

that would be ridiculous........ if they were on the lakers =D. but i agree with you. lebron can dominate a game much like magic, without being a scoring factor

[JoeTait75]

ok some of you guy's hatred for kobe is ridiculous. yes jordan is the GOAT and if you say kobe is "no where near MJ" "doesnt belong in the same galaxy" "is a rapist" etc......... yall are just hating and you know it. kobe belongs in the same sentence as jordan because he is the best in the game in his time, plays both ends of the floor, is the best at closing games in his era, the most feared player with time winding down, and has multiple championships

I said Kobe wasn't in the same universe as MJ. I didn't mean it as a slam on Kobe, just as a show of reverence for MJ, the greatest performer and competitor I've ever seen on a basketball court. Doesn't mean I don't think Kobe is great- he is. He just isn't MJ.

[DrHouse]

ok, now you are just being stupid. Celtics defense is nothing compared to the defenses that Jordan faced. He beat the bad boys of Detroit. Kobe would have cried to his momma if he ever faced that defense.

in Jordan's championship years, opposing teams defense was absolutely geared to stop Jordan. and they couldn't. and the defenses they played back then is immensely superior to today's defenses.

The rules have changed now, Jordan, in today's league would absolutely anihilate the celtics defense.

Actually the Celtic's defense was statistically one of the best the league has ever seen. Don't discredit them, I would rank their D last season as right up their with the all-time great defenses.

[Cry Havoc]

Lakers fans are amazingly delusional.

QFT. This is one of the most ridiculous threads ever on Spurstalk. And that's saying a hell of a lot.

[turiaf for president]

I said Kobe wasn't in the same universe as MJ. I didn't mean it as a slam on Kobe, just as a show of reverence for MJ, the greatest performer and competitor I've ever seen on a basketball court. Doesn't mean I don't think Kobe is great- he is. He just isn't MJ.

He def isnt MJ, but if kobe is great, just as competitive as jordan and the greatest performer right now, how is he not in the same universe? how many universes do you know?

do you see my point? kobe is no MJ. and showing reverence for MJ is not only justifiable but its expected, but kobe IS the closest thing to MJ this league has ever seen and probably will be unless wade goes ape nuts in the next decade

[stretch]

Absolutely. They lose in much the same manner, maybe it takes 7 games but they still lose.

The Laker's problem last season had to do with rebounding, physicality, and protecting the paint. Jordan doesn't really help you in any of those areas.

No, it was being mentally weak that killed them. Jordan wouldn't have blown that huge lead the Lakers had. The Lakers blew a few other leads as well. And what was Kobe doing when the bleeding started? Absolutely nothing. He watched and didn't do jack shit, other than shoot jumpers, while Jordan would have been driving his ass off.

[stretch]

better point put LBJ on last year's Lakers do they win ...still no ...

I can't agree with that, because the reason the Lakers kept blowing leads and such, was because they did not stay aggressive, and settled for too many jumpers, and no one was more guilty of that than Kobe.

[stretch]

Ok sow how Did LBJ let that happen in game 7?

Lebron absolutely outplayed Pierce in game 7. He was playing his ass off. Unfortunately he didn't get much help from his team, as well as the officials, allowing Garnett to get away with all kinds of moving screens and crap.

[Lp26]

This was probably mentioned but on TNT they had a stat (i forgot exactly what it was), but it basically was LBJ's skill in clutch end of game situations and he was some ridiculous #, 3-33; something along those lines.

[stretch]

but didn't do well until he got some talent and coaching around him. This goes for every special player out there.

Kobe has both, and hasn't done shit.

[stretch]

Silly ....Ok Duncan let Dirk get to a Finals ....and win an MVP and eliminate the Spurs from a back2back some of you are so ignorant on here ...

That has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. This post failed on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin.

[Killakobe81]

My point is not that Kobe is close to MJ but haters on here glorify all of his acomplishments and discredit Kobe's bottom line is when it comes to guys I have seen in my life (not on tape) the best two by position:

PG 1.Magic 2.Isiah
SG 1.MJ 2.Kobe
SF 1.Bird 2.Nique (LBJ may/will soon be #1 Worthy was a close 3rd)
PF 1.Duncan 2.Barkley (malone and McHale close 3rd)
C 1.Kareem 2.HAkeem (Shaq close 3rd)

Now let me say this ...the biggest gap between the 1 and 2 slots are at SG and center but it does not diminish anyone on this list point is that I dont care that Mj is better than kobe but you guys that say he is the GOAT unless you are over 50 can not say that without a doubt ...

As for now ...
PG Paul
SG Kobe
SF Lebron
PF KG (even though he is a punks ass)
C Duncan (even though the Spurs lie and say he is a PF)

Wade looks good this year but he aint Kobe ...Dirk has an argument at PF and Yao at center does as well but this is the best 5 by position I would bump Paul for Wade though if we just count gaurds ...defense is better ...better finisher closer than Paul

[Medvedenko]

Yeah, I've never seen Jordan play.

Except.... OOPS. I'm from Chicago. I could give you personal accounts of the ridiculousness of the celebrations in Chicago, especially for the first two titles. Nice try, but you fail miserably.

And you DEFINITELY have no interest in keeping comparisons of Kobe to the GOAT alive, do you? Nope, not at all. You're completely unbiased in this situation.
You Laker fans are just fucking pathetic. Do you really think ANYONE is listening to your ridiculous tripe about how good Kobe is?


You just proved my point and really owned yourself in this post. Have fun being a douche.

[Killakobe81]

That has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. This post failed on so many levels, I don't even know where to begin.

Whatever that point was to counter the argument that Kobe allowed Pierce to win a FINALS MVP ...
But you WOULD be good at judging failure being a MAVS fan in all!! LMAO

Let me break it down in simple terms for you ...
1.Pierce made the key plays down the stretch and LBJ did not great game but not a great close ...he lost to a BETTER team ...just as did Kobe and the Lakers ...that is why the Celts had HCA ...they were a better team and for THOSE series Pierce was the better closer over them both ...no doubt ...when Kobe has had the better team he closed out the Lakers wins as well...and if the CAVS are better than LBJ will do the same to the Celts. Dont forget the Celts have a great defense and 3 All-stars ...I think Gasol may have made 1 in his whole career even big Z has done that Wallace as well ....and Szerbiak I bleive
2. Choking in a Finals would be like losing with a 2-0 lead and a double digit lead in Game 3 (like the Mavs)
3. All of you that say Kobe has more help forget that was just half of last season ...befor that he had little and put up crazy numbers but couldnt beat Phoenix ...

Again I dont care if people say Mj is better because I agree ...my point is stats dont tell me that watching him win 6 of 8 titles does ...but don't discount his help either Pippen, Rodman and Phil are all HOF caliber support in the playoffs the best team wins not the best player or DIrk would NEVER beat Tim in a playoff series ... or Pierce would not of beat Kobe or MJ ...dumbass!

[Killakobe81]

Kobe has both, and hasn't done shit.

Moron ...kobe hasn't done shit ...silly stuff like that is funny
3 rings and an MVP and a gold medal ...that ain ish?!
Back to the OP ...if you also count the gold medal game LBJ has not done well in his biggest 5 games of his career ...a 4 game FInals sweep and a now show in the gold medal round ....and I still think he has the chance to be great I dont think he will NEVER be the closer Kobe or MJ are ...but so far he aint that ....yet. Again Manu has proven he is more clutch with shots both here and internationally than LBJ ... so far.

[stretch]

Whatever that point was to counter the argument that Kobe allowed Pierce to win a FINALS MVP ...
But you WOULD be good at judging failure being a MAVS fan in all!! LMAO

Let me break it down in simple terms for you ...
1.Pierce made the key plays down the stretch and LBJ did not great game but not a great close ...he lost to a BETTER team ...just as did Kobe and the Lakers ...that is why the Celts had HCA ...they were a better team and for THOSE series Pierce was the better closer over them both ...no doubt ...when Kobe has had the better team he closed out the Lakers wins as well...and if the CAVS are better than LBJ will do the same to the Celts. Dont forget the Celts have a great defense and 3 All-stars ...I think Gasol may have made 1 in his whole career even big Z has done that Wallace as well ....and Szerbiak I bleive
2. Choking in a Finals would be like losing with a 2-0 lead and a double digit lead in Game 3 (like the Mavs)
3. All of you that say Kobe has more help forget that was just half of last season ...befor that he had little and put up crazy numbers but couldnt beat Phoenix ...

Again I dont care if people say Mj is better because I agree ...my point is stats dont tell me that watching him win 6 of 8 titles does ...but don't discount his help either Pippen, Rodman and Phil are all HOF caliber support in the playoffs the best team wins not the best player or DIrk would NEVER beat Tim in a playoff series ... or Pierce would not of beat Kobe or MJ ...dumbass!

I think you are the dumbass for thinking anyone here even began to infer that Pierce was a better player than Kobe.

[stretch]

Moron ...kobe hasn't done shit ...silly stuff like that is funny
3 rings and an MVP and a gold medal ...that ain ish?!
Back to the OP ...if you also count the gold medal game LBJ has not done well in his biggest 5 games of his career ...a 4 game FInals sweep and a now show in the gold medal round ....and I still think he has the chance to be great I dont think he will NEVER be the closer Kobe or MJ are ...but so far he aint that ....yet. Again Manu has proven he is more clutch with shots both here and internationally than LBJ ... so far.

We are talking about being the #1 option on his team. He hasn't accomplished any more than Lebron.

Again, fact is, the people here who constantly bring up the Kobe vs MJ/Lebron discussions are Kobe and Laker fans, not Lebron or Jordan fans.

LMAO insecure

[hater]

if laker fans cannot convince a single soul after 10 pages in this thread, that KObe is as good as Jordan. it will never happen. give up homer, delusional lakerfans

[scanry]

ok some of you guy's hatred for kobe is ridiculous. yes jordan is the GOAT and if you say kobe is "no where near MJ" "doesnt belong in the same galaxy" "is a rapist" etc......... yall are just hating and you know it. kobe belongs in the same sentence as jordan because he is the best in the game in his time, plays both ends of the floor, is the best at closing games in his era, the most feared player with time winding down, and has multiple championships

That is the problem. He actually isn't the best player in his time.:lol

Duncan & Shaq have that honour. :hat

Again he isn't (atleast wasn't till recently) the most feared player, that again my friend was Shaq.

Ever wonder why after Jordan retired, people keep mentioning "since the Duncan era or even the Shaq era."

Again the multiple championships he won was mainly due to the fact that he had the most dominant player the NBA has ever seen.

[scanry]

Actually the Celtic's defense was statistically one of the best the league has ever seen. Don't discredit them, I would rank their D last season as right up their with the all-time great defenses.

Spurs 1999 Championship D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2008 Celtics D

[diego]

i actually feel bad for real lakers fans, their entire fan base has been overrun by kobe groupies.

a real laker fan doesnt even consider kobe a top 5 laker all time. (wilt, kareem, west, magic, worthy, baylor, shaq, i'm sure i'm leaving someone else out). Is he a top 5 SG all time? i think so, but he still has a ways to go for the top spot. but like others have said- do you see jordan fans starting these threads? lebron fans? oscar robertson fans? no, it's always kobe fans.

kobe fans have been making so many excuses the past few years that, if kobe doesnt win a championship now that they are "the best laker team ever," it might just collapse every basketball messageboard with their whining and excuses.

[scanry]

He def isnt MJ, but if kobe is great, just as competitive as jordan and the greatest performer right now, how is he not in the same universe? how many universes do you know?

do you see my point? kobe is no MJ. and showing reverence for MJ is not only justifiable but its expected, but kobe IS the closest thing to MJ this league has ever seen and probably will be unless wade goes ape nuts in the next decade

Wade isn't anything close to MJ.:lol

However Wade can atleast brag about how he helped the most dominant player win his 4th ring. :p:

[nkdlunch]

That is the problem. He actually isn't the best player in his time.:lol

Duncan & Shaq have that honour. :hat


EXACTLY!!

Duncan + Shaq have 8 of the last 10 rings between them. They are undoubtedly the #1 and #2 players of their time.

Yeah, Kobe has 3, but so do Manu + Parker.

[Cry Havoc]

You just proved my point and really owned yourself in this post. Have fun being a douche.

:lmao

Okay man. Name-calling, that's the sign of a well thought-out, reasonable argument.

I think it's hilarious how you Lakers fans are arguing with the rest of the league in NBA fans and still think you're right. Every single other team's fans are calling you out for this lunacy. Your response is this. Awesome. Keep up that good work at proving Kobe is the greatest human being to ever walk the Earth. :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

i actually feel bad for real lakers fans, their entire fan base has been overrun by kobe groupies.

a real laker fan doesnt even consider kobe a top 5 laker all time. (wilt, kareem, west, magic, worthy, baylor, shaq, i'm sure i'm leaving someone else out). Is he a top 5 SG all time? i think so, but he still has a ways to go for the top spot. but like others have said- do you see jordan fans starting these threads? lebron fans? oscar robertson fans? no, it's always kobe fans.

kobe fans have been making so many excuses the past few years that, if kobe doesnt win a championship now that they are "the best laker team ever," it might just collapse every basketball messageboard with their whining and excuses.

This is what happens when you have a fanbase that's predicated on hype and making Sportscenter highlights. There are some actually great Lakers fans here, but you notice most of them are keeping their mouths shut. You can name the complete homers to a T with a thread like this.

[scanry]

:lmao

Okay man. Name-calling, that's the sign of a well thought-out, reasonable argument.

I think it's hilarious how you Lakers fans are arguing with the rest of the league in NBA fans and still think you're right. Every single other team's fans are calling you out for this lunacy. Your response is this. Awesome. Keep up that good work at proving Kobe is the greatest human being to ever walk the Earth. :lmao

I want to be like Mike - Kobe

file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Admin/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpghttp://cache.nba.com/media/lakers/kobe_jordan_170_020612.jpghttp://cache.nba.com/images/blank.gifhttp://cache.nba.com/images/blank.gif

Sometimes I dream
That he is me
You've got to see that's how I dream to be
I dream I move, I dream I groove
Like Mike
If I could Be Like Mike
Again I try
Just need to fly
For just one day if I could
Be that way
I dream I move
I dream I groove
Like Mike
If I could Be Like Mike


http://www.authorviews.com/authors/rovell/rovell-obd.htm

This was how much impact Mike had and on the way helped players like Marbury & co get those big contracts.

[cheguevara]

damn Lakerfan getting owned up in this one

[turiaf for president]

i swear reading comprehension owns all of you. wutever enjoy your finals days in the duncan era as he winds down

[cheguevara]

newsflash: Duncan is only 2 years older than Kobe and has been in the league 1 year less.

[Allanon]

Let's get this straight.

So far nobody has said that Kobe is better than Michael. However Kobe haters have used the argument that Kobe comes nowhere near Michael in achievements.

I'm cool with that. But then when it comes to Kobe vs LeBron, all of a sudden LeBron has the achievements to compare to Kobe? LeBron is the one here that has done nothing. Kobe is the MVP and has 3 rings.

The title of best player is there for the taking if Lebron wants it this year. He's going to have to take the ring from Kobe this year. He has to make those free throws in the closing minutes. He has to make that game winning shot.

Dare I say Lebron's been unclutch? How many more missed clutch free throws is he going to miss? How many more clutch shots going clang?

Until Lebron takes that shit, he's still ringless, MVPless and just less than Kobe...period.

If LeBron wins a ring this year, I'll be the first to say Lebron > Kobe. Until then he's of the Barkleys and Malones of the world. He'll most likely get his first MVP this year, so he gets into the great category. Great individual talent but not good enough to win a championship.

[scanry]

i swear reading comprehension owns all of you. wutever enjoy your finals days in the duncan era as he winds down

Atleast we're still proud of that era. And as Duncan said earlier last year to Lebron "It's going to be your league in a little while" and boy is that coming true. :lol

Kobe nutslobbers on the other hand are all bitter about LBJ's success, and no wonder people are standing up for him.:lol

[scanry]

newsflash: Duncan is only 2 years older than Kobe and has been in the league 1 year less.

and Duncan's career stats & achievements >>>>>>>>>>> Kobe's :lol:lol:lol

[Cry Havoc]

Let's get this straight.

So far nobody has said that Kobe is better than Michael. However Kobe haters have used the argument that Kobe comes nowhere near Michael in achievements.

I'm cool with that. But then when it comes to Kobe vs LeBron, all of a sudden LeBron has the achievements to compare to Kobe? LeBron is the one here that has done nothing. Kobe is the MVP and has 3 rings.

The title of best player is there for the taking if Lebron wants it this year. He's going to have to take the ring from Kobe this year. He has to make those free throws in the closing minutes. He has to make that game winning shot.

Dare I say Lebron's been unclutch? How many more missed clutch free throws is he going to miss? How many more clutch shots going clang?

Until Lebron takes that shit, he's still ringless, MVPless and just less than Kobe...period.

If LeBron wins a ring this year, I'll be the first to say Lebron > Kobe. Until then he's of the Barkleys and Malones of the world. He'll most likely get his first MVP this year, so he gets into the great category. Great individual talent but not good enough to win a championship.

This is a fair post. However, I have to point out that several Lakers fans here are attempting to get Kobe mentioned as a "close second" to Jordan. He is not close in the minds of many NBA fans who saw the 80s and 90s of basketball. You're right, LeBron's accomplishments don't compare to Kobe now, and if both retired today, Kobe would undoubtedly be regarded as (by far) the better player.

However, I feel that as of now, LeBron is the best all-around player in the NBA. By best, I mean if you need one guy to give your team a shot at the best record and a run to the Finals, you take him. Then Kobe (yeah, I'm such a Kobe hater saying he's the SECOND BEST PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE), then Duncan, then Chris Paul.

However, the reason the comparison between Kobe and LeBron is less about accomplishments and more about level of play is simply due to the fact that LeBron JUST turned 24. Kobe is 30. When comparing Kobe to Jordan, accomplishments are basically all you have to go on, since I'm pretty sure Kobe would destroy Jordan at 45 years of age. There is no way to compare the two at the current basketball operating level, as Jordan has long since retired.

However, you don't have to compare accomplishments career-wise when you're talking LeBron - Kobe, as they are still active players. To say that LeBron (the front-runner for the MVP this year) will never close games like Kobe is presumptuous and foolhardy. It gives Laker fans a horrible reputation when they hate on James and his career, who isn't even eligible for cheaper car insurance yet. It's like saying "Chris Paul, you can never be the point guard that Magic or Kidd was." I really have to wonder where the Laker fans vitriol is spewing from, if not from a case of jealousy that the player they feel is close to Jordan's level is already being equaled and eclipsed by another, if not in overall basketball ability, then just by the star power and the media buzz around him. Every NBA fan out there has to admit that this the NBA is going to put every kind of media market out there to push LeBron to levels of stardom not seen since Jordan.

Lastly, I don't see how LeBron has proved that he can't close. Didn't he just dominate the Pistons vaunted defense almost entirely by himself less than two years ago? He's not even 25 years old yet, and the fact that threads like this exist is a pretty explicit example of Lakers fans (not all of you) being so full of their own team to the point of abandoning any kind of logic when posting. Like the earlier fan who claimed I had probably never watched Jordan play -- when it gets to that point, you know you're scraping the bottom of the barrel for any kind of reasoning to prove your point. Almost every fan from every other team is pissed because Lakers fans have a propensity to do this with Kobe and this argument is tired and old. You CANNOT say that James will never learn to close a game out. It's ridiculous to even think that. He is doing at 24 what some of the greatest players were never able to do over the course of their careers, and Lakers fans hate this fact. Sad.

I do NOT have a problem with Lakers fans stating that LeBron and Kobe are equal. I do NOT have a problem with Lakers fans stating Kobe is better right now, as long as they offer evidence and rationale thought to explain why. What I, and the rest of the NBA's fans here get pissed about (I think) is when Lakers fans launch into this bizarre rhetoric that LeBron isn't on the same level as Kobe (or never will be), or that Kobe is approaching Jordan in terms of... anything basketball related, really. Kobe is arguably a better three point shooter than Jordan, but so is Michael Redd. No one can unequivocally say how good LeBron will be, or where his peak is, because there has never been a player like him before. Magic is the closest, and I would argue that Magic was still a better player than Kobe is, although that's a much more reasonable discussion. This patent dismissal of James by Lakers fans is just galling and, with no other way to put it, really, really stupid.

[turiaf for president]

Atleast we're still proud of that era. And as Duncan said earlier last year to Lebron "It's going to be your league in a little while" and boy is that coming true. :lol

Kobe nutslobbers on the other hand are all bitter about LBJ's success, and no wonder people are standing up for him.:lol

yea because thats the ONLY era you guys have. and what makes you think laker fans arent proud of kobe's era? hes a straight up killer and you know it. its retarded how so many of you guys hate on kobe. you can hate him all you want because hes a great player on a rival team. i understand that, but show some respect for his basketball skills.

[in2deep]

Are we talking about this season? because this season:

1. Lebron
2. Wade
3. Kobe

Careerwise of players playing today:
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe

AllTime, just take my word that Kobe is NOT in the top 5. Jordan is

[Cry Havoc]

yea because thats the ONLY era you guys have. and what makes you think laker fans arent proud of kobe's era? hes a straight up killer and you know it. its retarded how so many of you guys hate on kobe. you can hate him all you want because hes a great player on a rival team. i understand that, but show some respect for his basketball skills.

Kobe is a great player. So why don't you make a thread about it, instead about how Lakers fans would rather have Shawn Bradley on the court to finish a game instead of LeBron? LAKERS fans started this thread and have stoked the fire by attempting to compare him to the GOAT. I suggest you ask them to stop creating inane threads like this instead of blaming every other fan on this board for the incessant Kobe hate. The fact that you Lakers fans perceive it as hate is exemplary of what I'm talking about.

"Kobe is a great player, one of the best in the league for a long time, but he isn't as good as MJ." - NBA fan not from L.A.

"OMG STOP UR HATIN ON KOBE U NO NUTHING R U 12 I BET U DONT EVEN KNOW WUT MJ LOOKS LIKE SO U SUK" - random Lakers fan.

[JoeTait75]

Dare I say Lebron's been unclutch? How many more missed clutch free throws is he going to miss? How many more clutch shots going clang?

You can dare say it all you want. But you don't know what you're talking about, because your take is based on

a.) snippets of individual games, tiny sample sizes from the whole,

b.) your pre-conceived prejudices about who LeBron James is, and what he's about, and

c.) the typical, rampant LakeShow Fan insecurity when it comes to LBJ.

So you can talk all you want about how "unclutch" LeBron James is. And that's all it is. Talk. Based on three things that have nothing to do with the reality of this man's career and what he's done.

See, I've watched just about every game LBJ has played since he's been in the league- which I doubt you have, Allanon. I've seen him make plays on offense, on defense, shooting, passing, rebounding, to win games for his team. I've seen him bring a dead franchise back to life practically single-handedly. I've seen him take a team to the NBA Finals that had no business being there. I've seen him completely shut down by a 66-win team that was spectacular on defense, and did he shrink? Did he point fingers? Did he whine? No. He kept attacking, and he took a great team down to the final minute of a road Game 7 when NONE of his teammates (except Delonte West) even bothered to show up.

As Tim Duncan pointed out after the 2007 Finals, LeBron ALWAYS takes responsibility. That's not what a choker does. A choker lays blame and looks for an easy way out. And yeah, LeBron got punked in those Finals. But he NEVER gave up. He went down swinging, like a man.

So you can say what you want about LeBron. But it's ignorance you spew, and it will be called out.

And the whining about "Kobe haters" is hilarious. Who the hell always starts these threads? Cavaliers fans?

[baseline bum]

The only thing Kobe has on Jordan is the jump shot. Jordan's the far better defender, the better leader, is way more physical, he's the far better penetrator, he's more athletic, more creative, and never took games off. Saying Kobe Bryant is close to Jordan because he has good stats is like saying Patrick Ewing is almost as good as Kareem.

[Rogue]

Kobe is a great player but he is different from Jordan, what makes them different is kobe's love for shit.

[Phillip]

kobe is gay

[Allanon]

You can dare say it all you want. But you don't know what you're talking about, because your take is based on

a.) snippets of individual games, tiny sample sizes from the whole,

b.) your pre-conceived prejudices about who LeBron James is, and what he's about, and

c.) the typical, rampant LakeShow Fan insecurity when it comes to LBJ.

So you can talk all you want about how "unclutch" LeBron James is. And that's all it is. Talk. Based on three things that have nothing to do with the reality of this man's career and what he's done.

See, I've watched just about every game LBJ has played since he's been in the league- which I doubt you have, Allanon. I've seen him make plays on offense, on defense, shooting, passing, rebounding, to win games for his team. I've seen him bring a dead franchise back to life practically single-handedly. I've seen him take a team to the NBA Finals that had no business being there. I've seen him completely shut down by a 66-win team that was spectacular on defense, and did he shrink? Did he point fingers? Did he whine? No. He kept attacking, and he took a great team down to the final minute of a road Game 7 when NONE of his teammates (except Delonte West) even bothered to show up.

As Tim Duncan pointed out after the 2007 Finals, LeBron ALWAYS takes responsibility. That's not what a choker does. A choker lays blame and looks for an easy way out. And yeah, LeBron got punked in those Finals. But he NEVER gave up. He went down swinging, like a man.

So you can say what you want about LeBron. But it's ignorance you spew, and it will be called out.

And the whining about "Kobe haters" is hilarious. Who the hell always starts these threads? Cavaliers fans?

LeBron has been great things, I'm not a LeBron hater. He's right there with Kobe, just hasn't proven that he can win a game in the final minute yet.

Jeff Van Gundy loves LeBron, and even he doesn't think LeBron is clutch.

I'm saying LeBron hasn't been clutch, and until he is, we won't know the course of his career. Just another thing he needs to improve on, the next step in his legacy.

Serious homerism if you think LeBron's a clutch player right now. Don't be so defensive, players have flaws. You've seen his stats, was that 3 of 22 on game winners?

Just like Kobe was a brilliant player but never a good teammate. He's finally gotten it at age 30.

Just the facts, take it as an attack on LeBron if you like, but it's not.

[JoeTait75]

LeBron has been great things, I'm not a LeBron hater. He's right there with Kobe, just hasn't proven that he can win a game in the final minute yet.

Jeff Van Gundy loves LeBron, and even he doesn't think LeBron is clutch.

I'm saying LeBron hasn't been clutch, and until he is, we won't know the course of his career. Just another thing he needs to improve on, the next step in his legacy.

Serious homerism if you think LeBron's a clutch player right now. Don't be so defensive, players have flaws. You've seen his stats, was that 3 of 22 on game winners?

Just like Kobe was a brilliant player but never a good teammate. He's finally gotten it at age 30.

Just the facts, take it as an attack on LeBron if you like, but it's not.

LeBron James has taken 8,976 shots in his career. It's ridiculous to make hard-and-fast judgements based on 22 of those 8,976. Flat-out.

And if JVG doesn't think he's clutch, well then, I guess JVG doesn't know what he's talking about either.

[Cry Havoc]

LeBron has been great things, I'm not a LeBron hater. He's right there with Kobe, just hasn't proven that he can win a game in the final minute yet.

Jeff Van Gundy loves LeBron, and even he doesn't think LeBron is clutch.

I'm saying LeBron hasn't been clutch, and until he is, we won't know the course of his career. Just another thing he needs to improve on, the next step in his legacy.

Serious homerism if you think LeBron's a clutch player right now. Don't be so defensive, players have flaws. You've seen his stats, was that 3 of 22 on game winners?

Just like Kobe was a brilliant player but never a good teammate. He's finally gotten it at age 30.

Just the facts, take it as an attack on LeBron if you like, but it's not.

Title of the thread.

[Allanon]

LeBron James has taken 8,976 shots in his career. It's ridiculous to make hard-and-fast judgements based on 22 of those 8,976. Flat-out.

And if JVG doesn't think he's clutch, well then, I guess JVG doesn't know what he's talking about either.

It's not hard and fast, I'm saying his career so far. He just hasn't been clutch. Alot of this has to do with the fact that his go to move is a dunk. He then gets fouled and misses the free throws. This hasn't changed.

Even as recent as the game against the Bulls. Kobe had hit 2 game winning shots in a row (Indiana, Houston) and a possible 3rd in San Antonio (before Mason screwed it all).

LeBron gets his chance again versus the Bulls and doesn't deliver.

Can he be clutch, can he get better, can he be better than Kobe, can he be the best player ever?

Yes to all of them, but he isn't right now.

[Allanon]

Title of the thread.

Wasn't me, I like LeBron but I ain't giving him a pass. Just like I didn't give Kobe a pass on being a ballhog or a dick a few years ago.

Hell, I even had a Kobe/LeBron/Duncan sig last year.

[JoeTait75]

It's not hard and fast, I'm saying his career so far. He just hasn't been clutch. Alot of this has to do with the fact that his go to move is a dunk. He then gets fouled and misses the free throws. This hasn't changed.

Even as recent as the game against the Bulls. Kobe had hit 2 game winning shots in a row (Indiana, Houston) and a possible 3rd in San Antonio (before Mason screwed it all).

LeBron gets his chance again versus the Bulls and doesn't deliver.

Can he be clutch, can he get better, can he be better than Kobe, can he be the best player ever?

Yes to all of them, but he isn't right now.

Well, he closed pretty well tonight. 14 points in the fourth quarter of a must-win against the Hornets. We didn't want to carry a two-game slide into L.A. The difference between tonight and Thursday? The jumpers were falling.

Allanon, I'm not saying LeBron doesn't have holes in his game. I don't think he's ever going to be a consistent shooter on the level of Kobe. There are times when he pounds the ball and the offense grinds to a halt. He needs to work on his game at the free-throw line and develop some post moves to take advantage of his size and strength. He isn't perfect, I know this.

But what some see as a lack of clutch ability, I see as simply a manifestation of his streaky shooting. There are nights like tonight when they fall, and nights like Thursday when they don't. Nights like Thursday get more attention, because nights like tonight are expected out of him. He's supposed to come up large, it's the baseline for him. Kobe hits more game-winning shots not because Kobe is "more clutch" but simply because he's a superior jump-shooter to LeBron.

People read way too much into things. To me, it's a simple matter of execution and skill. Nothing intangible about it.

[Cry Havoc]

This thread should be bumped every time LeBron has a great 4th quarter or closes a game.

[LA24]

Kobe. :lol

[mogrovejo]

In the last 5 minutes of close games, LeBron James:

* Scores more than Kobe
* Shoots a higher percentage than Kobe
* Is more efficient than Kobe
* Rebounds more than Kobe
* Gets more assists than Kobe
* Gets more blocks than Kobe
* Gets more steals than Kobe

[DPG21920]

3-12

[resistanze]

This thread should be bumped every time LeBron has a great 4th quarter or closes a game.

This thread should be bumped whenever Kobe "wets the bed" in the 4th quarter too, I suppose. :lol

[DAF86]

For a "closer", Kobe sure did suck tonight in the 4th Q. He went for what... 1 for 10/11 in the last period?

What would you know, everybody misses in the clutch sometimes.

[LA24]

To be fair, Kobe was on a hot streak the last 10 games or so. He deserves a bad game every once in a while.

[DAF86]

To be fair, Kobe was on a hot streak the last 10 games or so. He deserves a bad game every once in a while.

James also deserve it. I've seen him take over in the clutch millions of times, specially in the playoffs.

[LA24]

James also deserve it. I've seen him take over in the clutch millions of times, specially in the playoffs.

I have nothing against Lebron. Too bad Laker fans have to make stupid threads like this and make the rest of the Laker fans eat crow. :bang

[Cry Havoc]

I have nothing against Lebron. Too bad Laker fans have to make stupid threads like this and make the rest of the Laker fans eat crow. :bang

We don't hold it against the good ones, no worries. Not sure if you've been around ST long, but you should see what happens when the Suns get rolling. There are like 3 decent Suns posters and the rest are just.... well.... like this thread, except with no grammar or punctuation. I feel bad for Xylus, as he must feel relatively alone here.

[Ice009]

I have nothing against Lebron. Too bad Laker fans have to make stupid threads like this and make the rest of the Laker fans eat crow. :bang

Fair enough. I did not like this thread at all. Kobe is not superior to Lebron James in crunch time.

Is Kobe even good as Jordan in crunch time to be mentioning him next to MJ?

[Cry Havoc]

Bump.

0:00 LeBron James makes 19-foot two point shot 106-105
0:00 End of the 4th Quarter
0:00 End Game

LeBron cannot close games.

[Kobe™]

House, your thread making pass has been revoked until further notice.