State First Impressions Nazr???? [Archive]

Rummpd

03-01-2005, 02:41 PM

I was over all farily impressed watched this game on a big screen TV in a sports bar last night. (Many Spurs fans in the Philly area)

My ranking = 8.5/10 vs. expectations after reading several NY rags that expressed some negativity about him (boy the continued love for Rose in NY Times today = great for him!), for a few days but trying to balance that by hearing from many NBA "talking heads" that Spurs made out like bandits.

First game solid 6/6 in about a quarter of play. Fine with me. I would rather not have a spectacular flame out (i.e. Massenburg first game as starter vs. Kings?? vs. rest of play of late).

Seems to be very solid, looks fairly strong and athletic even though he was sometimes tentative and may be bothered still by his groin injury.

A side effect is that potentially this trade may have spurred Rasho to play better - he was pretty solid last night = I don't think anyone could have totally shut down Z.

I was a Rose fan big-time but I am chillin over all that. Seems like a win win trade for all concerned.

exstatic

03-01-2005, 03:34 PM

He was OK. He looked a bit lost at times, which would be natural for a player new to the team. He airballed a FT, so he should fit in fine. :lol

timvp

03-01-2005, 03:44 PM

POSITIVES
-Bigger than I thought he was. Has long arms and big hands.
-Looks like he can jump and has good rebounding instincts.
-Set a couple good picks and came off looking ready for the pass.
-Wasn't afraid to take the ball to the basket.
-Looks coachable and listens to instructions.

NEGATIVES
-Ugly form on jumper. He should avoid ever shooting a turn-around jumper again.
-Gives up on defense. Isn't as relentless as the Spurs need him to be on D.
-Doesn't go up to dunk. His shot got bothered because he didn't take it up strong enough.
-Looks foul prone. Had a couple dumb fouls.
-Looked clueless defending the pick and roll.

Given this was after seeing him in only one game as a Spur. So far, he looks pretty good. If he can come in and give the team 6 to 8 rebounds per game, this would turn out to be a great trade.

We'll see.

desflood

03-01-2005, 03:47 PM

One thing's for sure, Rasho has started playing like his job is in jeopardy. Oh wait, it is!

whottt

03-01-2005, 03:49 PM

As long as he's not a stiff and does something other than just "big".

Trading Malik and two #1's for a "stiff" would have been a stupid losers trade. Because Malik is much more than a stiff and has the ability to impact a game, I don't care how short he is. And that's got nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with winning a title.

I can live somewhat without Malik's emotion because I think Manu has taken over that role anyway...but that doesn't mean we can just add endless stiffs to the team and still expect to have the emotional firepower needed to win a title.

TimVP, that dunk thing you noticed must be because of his injury...the Knicks fans said he dunks a lot...he dunks more than he does anything else, specifically off of his own O rebounds, and he's good at dunking. That's one of the things they said that got me excited...

PM5K

03-01-2005, 03:53 PM

As far as stupid fouls, I think part of it was the refs calling stupid fouls. Remember Rasho had something like five and Tim had four....

Rummpd

03-01-2005, 04:23 PM

Two words on fouls = Jack Nies = Spurs nemesis.

MarkyMark

03-01-2005, 04:31 PM

Nazr took over Rasho's spot-That spot being the ugliest jump shot on the team.

I was very pleased with his outing though. He was lost on pick n' rolls, but Duncan can look pretty lost at times also. That is my number one fear.

Medvedenko

03-01-2005, 04:33 PM

2 first rounders and Malik for a guy who averages 7 and 5.....I don't know guys...can't malik give you this if he plays the same amount of minutes.

Rummpd

03-01-2005, 04:52 PM

Funny for a lottery bound Laker fan to be spouting off right now.

Your GM let all the other teams make moves. Heck even GS outdid the Lakers.

Medvedenko

03-01-2005, 04:55 PM

What does this have to do with the Lakers....what if I was a Piston fan or a Heat fan...I am just stating my opinion. We held pat....the moves will come when Phil is on board.

Rummpd

03-01-2005, 05:10 PM

The fact you are a Laker fan actually doesn't mean that much (you are not LakerGod) but right now it seems I would be more worried about that team. Nazr by the way has had some pretty good stats actually:

PLAYER AVERAGES
REBOUNDS
Player G GS MPG FG% 3p% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

Nazr Mohammed 1 0 16.0 .333 .000 .500 2.00 4.00 6.00 .0 .00 .00 2.00 4.00 6.0
Nazr Mohammed (TOT) 55 54 27.9 .506 .000 .703 3.10 5.00 8.10 .5 .96 .96 1.51 3.20 10.8

Nazr season averages are more like 11 and 8. (In other words close to a double double in only 28 minutes a game).

Kori Ellis

03-01-2005, 05:14 PM

Do you think he'll play that many minutes as a Spur?

I think he'll average around 20mpg and if he puts up 7 and 5, that would be great.

ALVAREZ6

03-01-2005, 05:15 PM

What does this have to do with the Lakers....what if I was a Piston fan or a Heat fan...
If you were a Piston fan I would respect you.

Lakers = gay

Kori Ellis

03-01-2005, 05:15 PM

Nazr season averages are more like 11 and 9

Why did you round 8.1 up to 9?

:lol

Rummpd

03-01-2005, 05:21 PM

My bad but this is interesting:

Mourning may be in uniform Thursday when Miami visits New Jersey. He averaged 10.4 points and 7.1 rebounds in 18 games for the Nets earlier this season.

Very close to the stats of Nazr!!

PM5K

03-01-2005, 05:30 PM

Do you think he'll play that many minutes as a Spur?

I think he'll average around 20mpg and if he puts up 7 and 5, that would be great.

It's all going to depend on how many shots he can block, if he can get just one block per game in twenty minutes he can work his way into the starting lineup. Maybe even .75 blocks per game could get him into the starting lineup.....

whottt

03-01-2005, 05:44 PM

Instead of comparing Nazr's stats as a starter to Malik's bench stats...why doesn't someone compare their stats from when they were both bench players?

Malik's stats (PPG and RBG)as a starter are far superior to Nazr's, albeit, it's a much smaller sample size..but Malik's career highs are better...and Malik has to work a hell of a lot harder than other bigmen.

And Malik's numbers were better without Duncan in the lineup than they were with him.

The only stat I see in which Nazr is clearly superior to Malik is fg%....and that's only a recent devleopment.

I expect that Mohammed is going to get his points a lot easier than Malik, he's going to finish at the basket easier and get more dunks and easy layups, it won't be such a struggle like it was with Malik.......but that doesn't mean he's going to get more of them...Malik was always up for that struggle...and was active and worked really hard.

T Park

03-01-2005, 06:15 PM

Whottt, remember also Nazr's coaching.

After Pitino hes had bozos coaching him.

Lets take alot of that into effect. Look at what Pop and Co did for Stephen Jackson.

Frenchise player

03-01-2005, 07:51 PM

I don't understand why everyone compares Nazr with Rose, they are different players.
They don't play in the same spot, Nazr is a center and Rose a PF.
We trade Rose because we needed another Center to put some pressure on Rasho, and you will not find a better one than Nazr to fill this role.
It is meaningless to compare them, they bring things totally different.
To my mind this is a good trade in the long run, even if we lost a bit of the Spurs soul with Malik leaving the Spurs. As Pop said, we needed size to compete with the strongest team in the East, and I think he is right to already prepare to the finals because Phoenix or Seattle are not as good as the Lakers of last year, and the Spurs are definitely better.
I understand that Spurs fans are interested in Malik's performance as a Knicks, but I will enjoy it much more if they didn't compare it with Nazr's one after every game.

Mark in Austin

03-01-2005, 08:04 PM

Because Malik is much more than a stiff and has the ability to impact a game, I don't care how short he is.

Only if he makes it off the bench. Comparing the reality of Nazr to the three year old memory of Malik really doesn't make much sense. I really like Malik, but I do think we need to remember reality, and that is:

as long as Malik insisted on playing the way he has the past two seasons, he was never going to see consistant court time. He would have had the occasional throwback game, but nothing consistent. As long as Pop is coach, this reality wasn't going to change. As Chumpdumper has said in the past, "Either play him or trade him." They didn't play him.

Hook Dem

03-01-2005, 08:08 PM

whottt

03-01-2005, 08:12 PM

Only .

You make good points(except for the part where you cite Dump, which is always a bad idea)...

I'll say that nothing really changed about Malik's game between the year we won the title and last year...What changed was the addition of Robert Horry. One of the great bench players in NBA history. He's really a starter more than a bench player.

So Pop had other options to flex his muscles that he didn't have in previous years...and let's face it...what makes Horry Horry is the fact that he doesn't make many mistakes...he almost always makes smart plays and plays smart regardless of his stats. Horry is definitely the less volatile choice...and he's a winner too.

IMO, it is also Horry that made Malik tradeable.

Now I agree that Malik's assets didn't do us much good with his butt glued to the bench...but I'll also point out that we failed to repeat as NBA champions. IMO Malik might have changed that. Horry played pretty badly against LA, I won't say he choked, I'll just say they knew him better than we did, but Malik historically played very very well against the Lakers...With Hedo(and others) choking...we could have used his rebounding...and last year it was Shaq that killed us, for the first time.

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 08:14 PM

last year it was Shaq that killed us, for the first time.First time without DRob.

whottt

03-01-2005, 08:18 PM

Drob no doubt played a big part of it, of course, but Malik was part of it too. I'll point you to the 2002 playoffs...where we entered the 4th quarter of every game with a double digit lead I believe...

...when Drob was injured and basically incapcitated, even when he returned. We actually had a better showing against LA than we did in 01, and Shaq was held in check that series as well, for the second year in a row his FG% and PPG were lower against the Spurs tha any other team in the playoffs......we had a much better showing against LA, including winning 1 game in LA...and Malik played huge in that series, and especially in that win.

slayermin

03-01-2005, 08:19 PM

Nazr didn't close out on the open jump shooter early but started to close out later in the game. Also, Lebron got an easy layup in transition because he was focused on Ilgauskas, which resulted in him being screened out. I agree with timvp about his defensive intensity. He isn't playing Spurs type of defense yet.

I do like his length, especially when he rebounds.

Overall, I am happy with what I have seen. I just hope he doesn't freak the first time Pop screams at him.

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 08:21 PM

Blazer16

03-01-2005, 08:33 PM

Are we really that sold on Scola? It doesn't seem like he's a lock to be a great NBA player yet (unless we're just looking for a solid NBA player).

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 08:35 PM

I do think I would take issue with his game's not changing as well. For whatever reason, he doesn't seem to finish as strong around the basket as he once did; seems to get stuffed alot more in traffic. There are still alot of things I really like about Maliks game. He's still a good rebounder and a pretty versatile defender for alot of matchups. We're going to have to switch up some offensive sets to accomodate the loss of Malik's jumper (all those folks who said he should never shoot that were off base to say the least).

I still can't say exactly how well he would've done against the Lakers if used extensively. You can argue anything is better than Rasho, but Rose didn't shoot particularly well against the Lakers last year. I don't know if a few rebounds would've saved us after .04 anyway.

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 08:36 PM

Are we really that sold on Scola?It doesn't matter if we are sold on Scola.

The Spurs are.

whottt

03-01-2005, 08:36 PM

And we all acknowledge Malik's heart and effort, but the reality is for every 19 and 11 in 29 min. game there was an 0 and 2 in 25 min. game.

I'm not saying Nazr is a lock to solidify the rotation, but if that happens the trade is a positive. Kurt Thomas probably would've been better than either, but we have money earmarked for Scola.

The proverbial other side of the coin you mentioned earlier...

That's very much a here and now type outlook...Most players do have another side of the coin...There are very few Tim Duncans in the NBA.

That's the life of a bench/hustle player Chump...Malik never did that in start and prior to last season, he didn't do that in the playoffs either.

The lack of consistent minutes definitely hurt Malik's game...he is a clutz and needs heavy minuted to lose that clutziness.

But it's all a moot point anyway, since I don't think Mohammed is a stiff(and that label has nothing to do with numbers)...but if he had been...there'd be no defending this trade just on the basis of "size".

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 08:42 PM

That's very much a here and now type outlook.Shouldn't that be the outlook? And you agree it's been that way all along, right?
That's the life of a bench/hustle player Chump.I agree, which is why a system maniac like Pop couldn't stand it. That's why Rose has been supplanted at times by Horry, Willis and Massenburg. He traded that off the feast or famine that is Rose's game in search for consistency, hopefully from Nazr but the bigger hopes are pinned on Scola. I can't say it's right or fair; it just is.

SequSpur

03-01-2005, 08:44 PM

Whottt,

Malik is gone. Goodbye. Adios. Really? WGAF what you think about Malik? He sucked, he still sucks and now New York is paying his stupid ass salary Pop gave him.

Move the fuck on.

whottt

03-01-2005, 08:46 PM

I still can't say exactly how well he would've done against the Lakers if used extensively. You can argue anything is better than Rasho, but Rose didn't shoot particularly well against the Lakers last year. I don't know if a few rebounds would've saved us after .04 anyway.

Malik never got enough consistent PT to play out of his clutziness last season.....if you think about it...he didn't have too many 0-2 in 25 minutes the year we won the title. When he was starting last year? He played very well.

As for Rasho VS Malik and Malik's shooting...you over look one major difference in their games...Malik would take it inside...Malik gets to the FT line a hell of a lot more than Rasho. Rasho put no offensive pressure on Shaq...and neither did Horry. The only guy that was really trying to make Shaq defend was Manu.

You cannot put any aspect of that Lakers loss on Malik...he'd been rusted out on the bench and did not get any meaningful minutes in that series.

SequSpur

03-01-2005, 08:48 PM

When are you going to realize Malik is not, was not, couldn't be, wouldn't be comparable to any center in the NBA?

Malik is a clutz, because Malik sucks. Straight up. Point Blank. Bullseye. You can't hide that fact. I don't give a fuck how many minutes you give him.

Malik is gone.

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 08:48 PM

You cannot put any aspect of that Lakers loss on Malik.I don't, but I also don't see him as a panacea to everything that went wrong either.

whottt

03-01-2005, 08:53 PM

Hey Segu...suck a fucking cock.

If you read the fucking thread...all I said was Trading Malik for a stiff would have been a mistake...Other people want to argue it...I think it's pretty stupid argument if you ask me.

If you guys want another stiff you're dumbasses.

If that's not good enough for you...then go fuck yourself.

I'm not going to be a Pop Nazi...

Had we defended our championship last season, instead of choking it away based on Pop's projects? I might be one now...as it is...we choked ass and got our ass kicked in the fucking playoffs so stop acting like we fucking won the title last year because of Pop's brilliance. We didn't.

We choked...and his two boys choked..Hedo and Rasho. I don't do blind trust after a fucking choke job.

SequSpur

03-01-2005, 08:56 PM

Good. I am glad to see that you got half of that right. Rasho was definitely to blame. Hedo? Manu was to blame as well.

How about the fact that we had no one to give Tony a breather. Also, as for the last four games against LA........ the whole team went into the tank.

No adjustments. But don't blame Pop. He is to worthy.

whottt

03-01-2005, 09:03 PM

At least Manu was taking it into Shaq when his shot wasn't falling...something Malik would have done a lot better than Rasho or Horry.

I mean just how much do we want to rewrite history here? We gonna pretend Malik was leading the entire NBA in FTA when Duncan was injured in the early part of the season? We gonna pretend Malik was afraid of physicality and to take it into heart of a tough defense? We gonna pretend he didn't get to the line pretty effectively? We gonna pretend he didn't try to get to the line?

Don't tell me he would not have made a difference in that series...for 3 fucking years he pulled major to spot duty on Shaq, and Shaq didn't go off on us...Kobe did. Most of it was due to Drob...but there was one year where Malik played him more than anyone...and he still didn't go off...and he had still had to work on both ends of the court.

I'm not gonna dumb myself down.

FWIW...I don't think Nazr is a stiff after reading the comments...the only thing we are arguing about now is retroactively altering the type of player Malik was...and I'm not gonna do it.

The new guy will get respect(like I am sure he cares anyway) when he earns and not before then. Malik had earned it...

The trade looks good...even this guy is supposed to do well against Shaq...and obviously he will make him work on D...but I am not gonna sign off on it until I get a better look at this guy.

SequSpur

03-01-2005, 09:09 PM

Whottt,

Malik did NOTHING last year. That wasn't a fluke. Malik shoulda been traded last year but Pop got hosed. The Lakers were the better team last year.

Lets see........ Shaq vs. Rasho??????????

Lakers all the time.

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 09:14 PM

Don't tell me he would not have made a difference in that series.Difference? Sure.

Enough? Not sure.

I like that Nazr has done well against some good teams, teams we could easily see in the playoffs. But yeah, he's got to prove it.

whottt

03-01-2005, 09:16 PM

You know, they didn't look like the better team in the first two games of that series...

Phil Jackson said in his book that he didn't think it was possible to beat the Spurs last year...especially 4 times in a row.

Rasho didn't have to be our only option against Shaq...we had others...others that had worked very effctively on the way to two other championships...I didn't ever see one of those options cease to work...I saw us stop using it...because we didn't want to mess up our rotation.

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 09:19 PM

Enough? Not sure.

SequSpur

03-01-2005, 09:22 PM

whottt

03-01-2005, 09:22 PM

Difference? Sure.

Enough? Not sure.

Well I am not sure either...but geeesh we dominated them the first two games and then lose 4 in a row? Might have been a good idea to try some of our older options. I'm one of the biggest Horry defenders on the board...but he was mismatched on Shaq. That was fugly.

I like that Nazr has done well against some good teams, teams we could easily see in the playoffs. But yeah, he's got to prove it.

I haven't heard that he's done good against good teams...I've heard that he's done well against the guys he is supposed to do well against(weak fronts), and has a habit of disappearing in big games...The exception to the rule is Shaq, he is supposed to play Shaq well and it's supposed to be a trend going back 3 or 4 years...

I'll give him a pass for now on the disappearing in big games with the Knicks though...he has won an NCAA title before...and with the way the Knicks offense is structured this season, I can kinda understand why he wouldn't get many scoring opportunities in a big game.

whottt

03-01-2005, 09:25 PM

You and Phil can believe whatever you want. If you check the scoreboard, the Spurs lost.

Lakers > Spurs.

The Scoreboard said so and actually if most of you would realize, thats all that matters.

Yeah, they got scoreboard...but we didn't try everything we could have tried...and that is the truth...We did not make Shaq work on D other than Manu. Parker maybe could have done more...but he wanted no part of that paint after Malone and O'Neal smacked him around a couple of times.

SequSpur

03-01-2005, 09:27 PM

Then just repeat after me,

"POP is a fucking turd"

That solves the problem right there. Until he wins another one and then validates it without David Robinson, he is about the same as Bob Hill.

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 09:28 PM

I haven't heard that he's done good against good teams.I just checked the game log. I think some observers you queried might have an east coast bias, but seeing that he seems to have done well against Dallas, Sacramento and Houston (1 out of 2 games for each one, but there you go) makes me think he could do the same for us.

whottt

03-01-2005, 09:30 PM

I don't think he's a turd, he's probably the best at what he does in the NBA, he's just not as good as I would be :fro

...and I'm just not gonna blindly endorse alla his damn moves because he's almost done some stupid ones. Chris (choking, plays 43 games a season, bitch) Webber...

SequSpur

03-01-2005, 09:33 PM

He's good because of Tim Duncan. Get the credit in the right place.

whottt

03-01-2005, 09:33 PM

I just checked the game log. I think some observers you queried might have an east coast bias, but seeing that he seems to have done well against Dallas, Sacramento and Houston (1 out of 2 games for each one, but there you go) makes me think he could do the same for us.

I think Sac and Dallas could be considered the types of lines you would expect him to well against...

Houston is surprising...but if he plays Shaq and Yao well...then it's easy to see why Pop was willing to give up two #1's and Malik to get him.

I don't suppose you know how he did against Detroit do you?

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 09:42 PM

His stats were pretty mediocre against Detroit. None of the Detroit bigs really went off; Detoit basically smothered everyone else offensively in their big win.

Houston doesn't surprise me too much if he kept the pace up against Yao. He and Rasho should do quite well tiring him out on opposite sides of the court and Nazr on boards that require more than just reaching. I think Nazr will help prevent a guy like Juwan Howard from going off like he did last time. You'd have to like that.

whottt

03-01-2005, 09:49 PM

It sounds to me that the Spurs are building a plan of attack for Yao and Shaq similar to how they attacked Kobe...Remember in 03 they had Bowen working Kobe on D and Manu and Jax working him on O...Unlike previous years when Kobe didn't have to play D...there was never any let up on Kobe for that entire series, and it showed, Kobe was worn down by the end of that series...

In this situation you got Rasho being the defender and Nazr being the attacker, and Horry I guess being the stretcher.....Yao and Shaq are not going to get a free pass on O or D for the entire game.

ChumpDumper

03-01-2005, 09:59 PM

Really, I'm just pleased that we can speculate about how a Malik replacement might do, instead of knowing that he'll never see the floor like a straight salary dump. I also like that there is at least some overlap into the Scola era in case he sucks or is slow to develop. Not a slam dunk by any means, but the Spurs could have done far worse -- and I'm sure they considered it.

Kori Ellis

03-02-2005, 01:41 AM

Nazr talking at practice today.

http://video.woai.com/launcher/89311,565/

whottt

03-02-2005, 01:47 AM

You'd have to like that.

I'd like Juwan to be taken out for good...guy has no business playing in the NBA, and I've seen him deliberately injure enough players.

Aggie Hoopsfan

03-02-2005, 02:46 AM

I was concerned about his propensity for fouling in the first game Monday, but now I read he hadn't even practiced with the team prior to the game.

That's no longer a concern for me.

whottt

03-02-2005, 03:26 AM

I was concerned about his propensity for fouling in the first game Monday, but now I read he hadn't even practiced with the team prior to the game.

That's no longer a concern for me.

He averages 3.1 fouls per game...that's a pretty steep number of fouls...and that's without trying to play D. He's no Danny Fortson, but he is foul prone.

wildbill2u

03-02-2005, 01:11 PM

He averages 3.1 fouls per game...that's a pretty steep number of fouls...and that's without trying to play D. He's no Danny Fortson, but he is foul prone.

I'm not as concerned with how many fouls he averaged as what kind of fouls? If he's playing in the paint with some toughness and letting players know they can't roam through his territory with impunity, then I'm down with it. We could use a little enforcement on the Spurs, especially against Wade if it comes to Miami/Spurs

If he's getting silly touch fouls because he's not moving his feet or really trying to play D, then that's another story.

But I hear he's pretty agile around the basket, so I'm hoping for the best.

PM5K

03-02-2005, 01:50 PM

Well we can't really use his first game to judge how foul prone he may be, all of our big men got in foul trouble in that game, I guess we'll get a better idea of that tonight....

Dario

03-02-2005, 02:25 PM

When seeing cavaliers game, rasho is to nazr what duncan is to rasho = a superstar :) But its like many of you said, you can't judge him by first couple of games, i think he will do just fine, although i still believe this trade isn't a win win situation, imo nazr will watch most of the playoffs from warm pops doghouse :)