Defensive Question - True or False?

[timvp]

X/2 > Y

X = Bowen's perimeter defense at age 37

Y = The defense of the second best perimeter defender on the team

[Joe Schmoogins]

X/2 < Y

Bowen's great STILL... but I have a hard time saying that he is TWICE as good as anyone else on the team.

[HarlemHeat37]

I can't really see who is close to him, I'd have to agree..

Manu is a good help defender and gambler, but not great 1 on 1..Hill is a good defender, so he might break that..

[Kobulingam]

X/2 > Y

X = Bowen's perimeter defense at age 37

Y = The defense of the second best perimeter defender on the team

1.2Y <= X <= 1.4Y

[timvp]

Before Bowen checked into the game, Carter had scored 19 points in the last nine and a half minutes. In the next 17 and half minutes after Bowen entered, Carter scored four points.

:smchode:

[Spursfanfromafar]

Thats easy. True!

[Mal]

Bruce still can, be I won`t say that he is twice as good as Gino`s or even Hill`s defens

[Dex]

True.

Please give me my 100 so I can magnet it to the fridge.

[it's me]

Bowen is the man.... I'm 100% sure Pop is saving this guy for the PO

[texbound]

Before Bowen checked into the game, Carter had scored 19 points in the last nine and a half minutes. In the next 17 and half minutes after Bowen entered, Carter scored four points.

:smchode:

What's so funny is that I told my 12 yr old daughter to watch Bruce on Carter and count how many times VC takes the ball to the basket. I told her that VC would settle for only outside shots. The answer: 1/2 (She gave VC 1/2 because he made a floater just inside the FT line and Tim blocked another similar shot).

[lrrr]

So when do you think Bowen will be back into the starting lineup, or at least playing starters minutes?

I can't help but think that Finley's big minutes are for the sole purpose of keeping Bruce fresh for the post season. I would have thought that it would have been around the time of the RRT...

As much as was made about Ginobili's ankle against LA, I think Bruce was also gassed in that series and hence couldn't keep up with Kobe. Actually Timmy probably was as well considering his sub par performance against Gasol.

[DieMrBond]

That equation isn't fair, because Bruce cancels out Vince. ;)

[roycrikside]

It's patently false. All we remember is the last thing that happened and Bruce had a good defensive night tonight so the temptation is to immediately say he hasn't lost a step or anything. But the fact of the matter is that Bruce has had off nights defensively here and there and has struggled mightily with certain guys.

Obviously in one-on-one situations Bruce gets beat less often than Manu does, but you're not taking into account Ginobili's defensive playmaking ability. He gets steals, blocks, deflections, and draws charges too. Bruce makes more stops on average, but all that come from them is a Duncan rebound and the team crawling up the floor. When Manu makes a stop, it's often two quick points the other way and a big momentum turning sequence.

[it's me]

It's patently false. All we remember is the last thing that happened and Bruce had a good defensive night tonight so the temptation is to immediately say he hasn't lost a step or anything. But the fact of the matter is that Bruce has had off nights defensively here and there and has struggled mightily with certain guys.

Obviously in one-on-one situations Bruce gets beat less often than Manu does, but you're not taking into account Ginobili's defensive playmaking ability. He gets steals, blocks, deflections, and draws charges too. Bruce makes more stops on average, but all that come from them is a Duncan rebound and the team crawling up the floor. When Manu makes a stop, it's often two quick points the other way and a big momentum turning sequence.

What???:lol

[bugmenot]

What???:lol

+1 :lmao

Manu is playing the worst defense of his career right now.. if a player gets any type of momentum against Manu it looks like Manu's feet are in cinder blocks. Ray Allen of all people toasted Manu and tonight Manu turned VCarter into Michael Jordan himself. Roger and Georgie are much better defenders right now than Manu. Manu and Tone can't defend their own shadow right now.

Jesus Christ I have no idea what some Spurs fans are watch.. Manu is a play-maker on defense ----- for the other team :rollin

[xtremesteven33]

+1 :lmao

Manu is playing the worst defense of his career right now.. if a player gets any type of momentum against Manu it looks like Manu's feet are in cinder blocks. Ray Allen of all people toasted Manu and tonight Manu turned VCarter into Michael Jordan himself. Roger and Georgie are much better defenders right now than Manu. Manu and Tone can't defend their own shadow right now.

Jesus Christ I have no idea what some Spurs fans are watch.. Manu is a play-maker on defense ----- for the other team :rollin

:wow

[Cry Havoc]

+1 :lmao

Manu is playing the worst defense of his career right now.. if a player gets any type of momentum against Manu it looks like Manu's feet are in cinder blocks. Ray Allen of all people toasted Manu and tonight Manu turned VCarter into Michael Jordan himself. Roger and Georgie are much better defenders right now than Manu. Manu and Tone can't defend their own shadow right now.

Jesus Christ I have no idea what some Spurs fans are watch.. Manu is a play-maker on defense ----- for the other team :rollin

I could not disagree with you more. At all.

[The Truth #6]

Bowen was great tonight. Playing against Vince woke him up and brought out extra energy and motivation. Perhaps there aren't as many players that motivate him like in years past?

[Thompson]

Bowen is the man.... I'm 100% sure Pop is saving this guy for the PO

About this idea; does this mean that as soon as the playoffs hit, Bowen will be getting around 30 minutes a night (or near that)? If so, will Pop gradually start increasing his minutes toward the end of the year, or just throw him in for 30 during the playoffs? Won't he have to improve his conditioning (I know Bruce keeps himself in great shape no matter what, but I always hear actual gameplay is different)? Will Bowen be able to give 30+ for 16 or so games? I hope so, I just don't know.

[Dex]

This being said,

X/2 > Z

where Z = most players in the league.

Even I'm surprised Bowen's minutes have been curtailed, but I fully expect him to be around on the floor come playoff time.

[it's me]

About this idea; does this mean that as soon as the playoffs hit, Bowen will be getting around 30 minutes a night (or near that)? If so, will Pop gradually start increasing his minutes toward the end of the year, or just throw him in for 30 during the playoffs? Won't he have to improve his conditioning (I know Bruce keeps himself in great shape no matter what, but I always hear actual gameplay is different)? Will Bowen be able to give 30+ for 16 or so games? I hope so, I just don't know.

Don't know about "30 min" but he can give you some quality defensive time on key situation... against key players, we will need that come PO time.

I think he will start playing more a couple of weeks before playoffs

[HarlemHeat37]

Manu's D has actually been a pleasant surprise for me..his help D has been outstanding this season..

I can't wait until the playoffs come around..it's interesting that Pop is saving Bowen's body for the playoffs, but he's playing old man Finley big minutes every game..maybe he's trying to give himself an excuse to bench his precious Michael more in the playoffs, since he obviously wouldn't be able to help himself otherwise..

[K-State Spur]

It's been better since they have used him strictly as a cooler off the bench.

Earlier in the season, when he was still playing 30 minutes a game, I thought there was a noticeable drop-off from the last few years - albeit still better than anybody else on this team and most guys on every other team.

[HarlemHeat37]

I disagree with that..Bowen was playing big minutes in the stretch without Tony and Manu, and those 7 games were the best D we've played as a team all year long..

I think you're thinking about the first 5 games of the season, where the whole team looked horrible defensively..

[K-State Spur]

About this idea; does this mean that as soon as the playoffs hit, Bowen will be getting around 30 minutes a night (or near that)? If so, will Pop gradually start increasing his minutes toward the end of the year, or just throw him in for 30 during the playoffs? Won't he have to improve his conditioning (I know Bruce keeps himself in great shape no matter what, but I always hear actual gameplay is different)? Will Bowen be able to give 30+ for 16 or so games? I hope so, I just don't know.

Think about it like this. The last couple years, Kobe (usually) likes to use the early portion of the game to get his teammates involved. Against the Spurs at least, he doesn't typically turn on the scoring jets until midway through the 3rd.

So you bring a fresh Bruce into the game to man-up on him around that time. Bruce only plays about 10-12 minutes, but he's rested and guarding the best perimeter player at the most important time in the game.

[Kobulingam]

Manu's ankle is not 100% yet.

My chiropractor had the same surgery and he told me that the "last 10%" of recovery takes a long time to come back, and that it would take about a year for full recovery.

Manu's ability to react quickly on defense in 1-1 situations will be affected by this, moreso than his offense.

[SequSpur]

Before Bowen checked into the game, Carter had scored 19 points in the last nine and a half minutes. In the next 17 and half minutes after Bowen entered, Carter scored four points.

:smchode:

when are the spurs going to meet the Nets in a playoff game?

Kobe rubbed his nuts all over bowen last year and damn near averaged 40 a game while bowen didn't score at all.....

I disagree. Kobe will get his, Bowen doesn't know how to get his, so you're wrong again. Someone else playing in that position is more important.

[Obstructed_View]

No, because Bowen hasn't shown the ability to do it night in and night out. He might still be great on occasion, but it averages out. When his game is on, he's still the best combination of team and individual defender by far that the Spurs have.

[Blackjack]

Originally Posted by timvp

Before Bowen checked into the game, Carter had scored 19 points in the last nine and a half minutes. In the next 17 and half minutes after Bowen entered, Carter scored four points.

That was definitely some vintage Bruce, but the team D, and the coaches adjustment on how they played in the post with doubles and off the dribble, had a lot to do with the second half success.

Bowen is still the best on-ball perimeter defender on this team by a pretty considerable margin, but Hill and Hairston are giving me some hope, that with a little seasoning and repetition, that gap could also close considerably. (Did you notice Vince's frustration/barking for a foul after two great contests on his jumper by Malik? He couldn't really shake him without a screen, and when he looked to be open for his jumper, there was Malik, with that great ability to recover and contest.)



Manu's D has actually been a pleasant surprise for me..his help D has been outstanding this season..

:tu

Manu's defense has been more than adequate as of late, and the notion that he somehow played terribly against the C's the other day, has been greatly exaggerated.

Sure, Allen got on the board quickly, after a lapse or two on Manu's behalf, but he's a gifted scorer who scored on some very nice contests by Manu too.

Yeah, the lapses can lead to a shooter to finding a rhythm, thus nullifying good defense, but it sure seemed that Allen cooled off considerably in the second half with Manu on him, didn't it?

Contrary to what I've seen posted on this board, I've actually been encouraged with Manu's movement and since of purpose that he's shown on the defensive end, as of late. The physical part of the injury is obviously back near 100%, but he seems to have turned that corner, mentally, to where he's cutting, stopping, going, and exploding, with little to no hesitation.



Think about it like this. The last couple years, Kobe (usually) likes to use the early portion of the game to get his teammates involved. Against the Spurs at least, he doesn't typically turn on the scoring jets until midway through the 3rd.

So you bring a fresh Bruce into the game to man-up on him around that time. Bruce only plays about 10-12 minutes, but he's rested and guarding the best perimeter player at the most important time in the game.

It's not ideal, to have a guy who makes that much of a difference-maker on the defensive end playing limited minutes, but it's the best way to utilize Bowen at this point of his career. Pop knows what he's doing.:tu

[Solid D]

Bowen was tremendous tonight. He didn't stop Carter by himself, though. The Spurs changed-up their defense for Carter in the 2nd half by trapping him off the screen-rolls more and whenever he posted up, he had 2 guys on him.

[Blackjack]

when are the spurs going to meet the Nets in a playoff game?

Kobe rubbed his nuts all over bowen last year and damn near averaged 40 a game while bowen didn't score at all.....

I disagree. Kobe will get his, Bowen doesn't know how to get his, so you're wrong again. Someone else playing in that position is more important.

Except that, he didn't. At least he didn't get the better of Bowen because of Bruce's inability to play Kobe as well as in the year prior, what changed was the strategy and the way Pop chose to utilize Bruce.

The defensive gameplan put forth by Pop, and the coaching staff, pretty much went the way they drew it up. They took away the free-throws from Kobe and allowed him to go to town on the mid-range jumpers. Bruce, for the most part, executed what Pop wanted done. Whether you agree with the strategy or not, it is what it is. Besides, the Spurs didn't lose that series on account of their defense.

The offense was the Spurs' downfall.

Whether it was Manu's injury, the team being literally out of gas, the every-other-day schedule, (that never allowed them to recover physically and get their legs under them) or all of the above being the reason for the offensive ineptitude? I suppose everyone has their theories. But, the demise of the Spurs against the Lakers, came at the hands of their offense.

[Spurs Brazil]

X/2 > Y

X = Bowen's perimeter defense at age 37

Y = The defense of the second best perimeter defender on the team

Very true.

We have nothing close to Bruce

What he did yesterday was a defense clinic

[kace]

+1 :lmao

Manu is playing the worst defense of his career right now.. if a player gets any type of momentum against Manu it looks like Manu's feet are in cinder blocks. Ray Allen of all people toasted Manu and tonight Manu turned VCarter into Michael Jordan himself. Roger and Georgie are much better defenders right now than Manu. Manu and Tone can't defend their own shadow right now.

Jesus Christ I have no idea what some Spurs fans are watch.. Manu is a play-maker on defense ----- for the other team :rollin

you will have a hard time trying to say something bad about manu here.

but that's the truth, manu's one-on-one D has been very weak lately and has never been very good. but manu is very active on the court so he still manages to get some steals, rebounds and very often very clutch ones.

even Tim isn't a great one-on-one defensor, even if a master at anchoring our D.

indeed, we have very few great one-on-one defensor outside Bowen, who is by far the best, and maybe KT. The spurs D is all about team defense.
Which is a good thing because there are so great offensive talents in this league, and the rules are so favorable for them, that it's almost impossible to contain an offensive star on one-on-one.

that's why when Bruce does this, it's so impressive. his D against LBJ in 2007 was unbelievable: straight in his face, conceeding nothing. a great moment from the real 4th player of our Big 4.

[I Love Me Some Me]

This is Vince Carter we're talking about. He's not exactly in the prime of his career, and even then he was never on the level of guys like Kobe and LeBron. It was abundantly clear in the WCF last year that he's no longer effective. What he brings defensively is no longer worth the dropoff on offense when he's on the floor.

[timvp]

+1 :lmao

Manu is playing the worst defense of his career right now.. if a player gets any type of momentum against Manu it looks like Manu's feet are in cinder blocks. Ray Allen of all people toasted Manu and tonight Manu turned VCarter into Michael Jordan himself. Roger and Georgie are much better defenders right now than Manu. Manu and Tone can't defend their own shadow right now.

Jesus Christ I have no idea what some Spurs fans are watch.. Manu is a play-maker on defense ----- for the other team :rollinThis is a bit harsh but I do agree that Manu's individual defense is shaky right now. His feet aren't as quick as usual, which is causing him to have to go for a lot more steals. Thankfully he's been picking up steals at a good pace so it's been able to even out some of his shortcomings.

Who is the second best perimeter defender on the Spurs right now? Hard to say. RMJ has a good case because he typically gets the assignments Bowen used to get. He's good at guarding players in one-on-one situations, however he struggles with picks and isn't a very good help defender. Manu is the opposite. Not having much success in one-on-one situations but he's a dangerous help defender. Parker, when he wants to, can play very good one-on-one defense. But we haven't seen it much from him in the last few months.

Hill is a bit inconsistent but he definitely has the ability to become the second best perimeter defender on the team. Udoka is the best perimeter defender on the Spurs on the block .... but in every other aspect he has been pretty bad this year.

[Nathan Explosion]

I saw someone say that Duncan isn't a good one on one defender? It's harder for a post player to be labeled a good one on one defender because of the proximity to the basket. Offensive players shoot better the closer they get.

Duncan is good at keeping people a few feet further from the basket than they'd like. Also, he's a good shot blocker and a great rebounder. Not to mention a great help defender.

Bruce may be the best perimeter defender, but Duncan is the anchor and easily the second best defender on the team.

As for the perimeter, Hill has been great at time and a rookie at others. But how many shots does he block with those long arms that some PGs just couldn't get too?

[baseline bum]

lg(X) > Y

(i.e., Bruce's defense on the perimeter is exponentially better than anyone else's on the team)