Straight out of the Stevie Francis playbook

[ShoogarBear]

WTF was that last play?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The funny part was I called it to the three people I was watching the game with.

"We will put Tony out top, and put it all on him."

Shocker that it turned out that way, I tell ya...

Tony had tunnel vision all night long. He missed numerous wide open teammates looking to score by himself. Why put him in that situation at the end, when you know it's gonna play out the same tired way?

[ShoogarBear]

Over the last five years, the Spurs have got to have pissed away more fourth quarters than any team in the NBA.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But Pop's a great coach, he's got more rings than you or me [/Tpark]

That last play call was a vintage Gregg Popovich end of game special.

"Hmm, I've got five guys on the court, I'll use one of them." [/pop]

[T Park]

yeah id say he knows more about basketball than you could dream to have.


What, no more free throw coach threads until you were shut the fuck up by Kori when she told you how many coaches pop had brought in?

New thread, same bitch.

[texbumTHElife]

yeah id say he knows more about basketball than you could dream to have.


What, no more free throw coach threads until you were shut the fuck up by Kori when she told you how many coaches pop had brought in?

New thread, same bitch.


Wasnt it proven in a thread a little while back that almost every player we bring in suffers a decrease in FT % when they play for us?

Being a great coach doesnt make him perfect.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tpark, why do you always change the subject when you're getting your ass handed to you.

Gravy training on someone else's info? Kori didn't set me in my place, she made me aware of something I wasn't privvy to. Fuck dude, get over it.

Tpark, answer this: do you think that was a *smart* play we ran at the end tonight? One shot to try to tie with 17 seconds to play? I'm waiting.

[T Park]

Gee, I wonder if it might have become a "broken" play maybe.


nahhhh.

[ShoogarBear]

Sorry, T Park, there was nothing broken about it.

They just stood around. No picks for anyone, no motion. I don't think TP seriously looked for anyone during the whole time.

[T Park]

No picks for anyone

i guess Robert Horry running to the top with two guys on his ass and trying to make a pick and roll play doesn't count.


Nopers.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That wasn't part of the play set, for Horry to try and bail TP out with three seconds to go. That was a smart veteran realizing Tony was fucked and trying to bail him out.

[Kori Ellis]

The play was this ... Horry was supposed to get the ball to Barry for 3. That didn't materialize. So Tony got the ball and waited for a pick to come that never did. If you guys all think that the play was for Tony to just stand there and then chuck a shot, you are nuts.

[Rick Von Braun]

The play was this ... Horry was supposed to get the ball to Barry for 3. That didn't materialize. So Tony got the ball and waited for a pick to come that never did. If you guys all think that the play was for Tony to just stand there and then chuck a shot, you are nuts.If the play was broken and the pick never came, for whatever reason, you adapt. You don't dribble yourself out of the game ala Francis. Tony should have shaken off Najera and gone for a penetration&dish with Barry/Horry or a 2 pt play and a fast foul afterwards. Using all the clock and throwing a wild, contested, low percentage 3, using a low % 3PT player is not the first option that comes to mind to take the game into OT.

Not a big deal, but TP has at the very least shared responsabilty with Pop for that FUBAR.

[Kori Ellis]

The pick wasn't part of the original play. The original play was just Horry to Barry. That didn't happen, so Tony thought the other players would adapt and come set a pick. They didn't. He tried to get the ball to another 3 point shooter but didn't see anyone, so he took a desperation shot. I'm not saying that none of it is on Tony. Tony should have seen Devin in the corner; he didn't.


After the play — which was designed for Robert Horry to get Barry a 3-point attempt — broke down, Tony Parker held the ball on the right wing and waited for a screen that never materialized.

He misfired an off-balance 26-footer just before the buzzer.

"I was just there as a safety for Brent," Parker said. "It was just a bad play. We had nothing."

[ShoogarBear]

The last play didn't lose the game. It just provided the final icing. The game was lost during the 0-10 fiasco which preceded it.

They didn't deserve to win it. All I can say is, "basketball IQ" is highly overrated. Give me the tough SOBs who know how to seal a deal.

[Carnac]

Over the last five years, the Spurs have got to have pissed away more fourth quarters than any team in the NBA.

And they've probably got the best record of any NBA team in that same five-year stretch. So, they've probably held on to a few leads too, me thinks.

[Kori Ellis]

They have the best record in all of the major sports over the last eight years. Spurs fans should be more thankful.

[ShoogarBear]

Best regular season record over that time. But not most championships. Not even the most NBA championships.

The reason? Inability to executte down the stretch. It was a direct causes of the 2002 playoff loss; slighly less so in 2004. (And it's was something the had to overcome to win in 2003.)

And all indications are it's going to be a problem in 2005.

[Kori Ellis]

And all indications are it's going to be a problem in 2005.

All indications?

Because of two losses without Manu and Tim? Are you planning on not having them in the postseason?

The Spurs have only lost 15 games this season -- better record than any other Spurs team in history at this time of the season. A few of those losses were due to poor 4th quarter execution. I don't know if that's a strong indicator of anything.

[Kori Ellis]

All I can say is, "basketball IQ" is highly overrated. Give me the tough SOBs who know how to seal a deal.

Is that ShoogarBear codespeak for Jax > Barry? :)

[ShoogarBear]

*sigh*

spilt milk, Kori.

[picnroll]

Parker was effectively stopped by Najera jumping the pick in the 4th. For four year now I've wondered why when Parker's been handled on P&R by aggressively jumping the pick driving him wide the Spurs don't go to flattening the offense on the baseline and have Parker isolate on his man at the top of the key, take him off the dribble to the basket, not always just rely on the pic & roll. Spurs will do it rarely but effectively as the last play at end of quarters but that's about the only time I see it.

[boutons]

"Spurs will do it rarely"

In the win @PHX, Manu was given the ball alone many times at the top of the key while everybody else cleared out.

[picnroll]

Rarely with Parker

[T Park]

apolgies bitches??



there was nothing broken about it


?????


salute

[ShoogarBear]

So, you're agreeing that Pop completely fucked up, T Park?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What were you right about? Pop fucked up. He even admitted he fucked up. Salute that bitch.

Who only draws up one option for an end of game play. If the defense covers it, then what? Oh yeah, Parker dribbles out the clock and we lose.

Kori - here's the problem with Parker - all night long he was missing wide open players to take it on himself to score. You touched on it - Devin was wide open in the corner.

As for the last play, if Parker wanted a pick set, why can't he call on someone to come set it for him? Instead he dribbled out the clock and threw up a half-hearted attempt to win at the end. You're the point guard, the starting point guard no less - speak up.



And they've probably got the best record of any NBA team in that same five-year stretch. So, they've probably held on to a few leads too, me thinks.

Well that's just fine and dandy, now if only we can get David Stern to start awarding the trophy for regular season victories, we'd be set.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori - here's the problem with Parker - all night long he was missing wide open players to take it on himself to score.

I'm pretty sure that he was told to look to score instead of looking to pass last night. I'm not giving that as an excuse for the final play, of course. That was just a fuck-up all the way around. But I think that's normally the plan when Manu/Tim are out -- for Tony to look to shoot first.

Tony had an awesome first half -- so I don't think anyone would complain about him not passing as much in the first half. The reason that things changed so dramatically in the second half is because of George Karl's adjustment (putting Buckner on him).

[boutons]

"George Karl's adjustment"

.. and the Spurs failed to score 20 points in either quarter in the second half, after scoring 25 in qtrs 1 and 2 each.

[Kori Ellis]

.. and the Spurs failed to score 20 points in either quarter in the second half, after scoring 25 in qtrs 1 and 2 each.

Correct. Because the Spurs did nothing to counter Karl's adjustment. Just like they did nothing to counter Phil's adjustment last postseason.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That's pathetic too. Go back to the Nets - they took Parker out of his game by throwing a longer Kerry Kittles on him.

Two years later, Pop still can't adjust to that, pretty damn disturbing. And you can bet teams will recognize it and utilize that defensive tactic more and more on him, especially come playoff time.

We play Seattle, and you'll have Antonio shutting down Tony. Phoenix and it'll be Joe Johnson. And others have already touched on it - in that situation you flatten out the offense and iso Tony out top. But instead, Pop thinks pick and roll is the way to go, but unfortunately it brings another defender into the picture that can hedge on Tony and slow him down.

Sad, really.

And Kori - Tony missed Barry WIDE open on one offensive possession where he got stuffed going one on five, and Pop was yelling at him to see the whole court because he had a man wide open. So while I think he definitely had the green light to score, I don't think it excuses him from taking the whole court into consideration.

[Frenchise player]

That's pathetic too. Go back to the Nets - they took Parker out of his game by throwing a longer Kerry Kittles on him.

Two years later, Pop still can't adjust to that, pretty damn disturbing. And you can bet teams will recognize it and utilize that defensive tactic more and more on him, especially come playoff time.

We play Seattle, and you'll have Antonio shutting down Tony. Phoenix and it'll be Joe Johnson. And others have already touched on it - in that situation you flatten out the offense and iso Tony out top. But instead, Pop thinks pick and roll is the way to go, but unfortunately it brings another defender into the picture that can hedge on Tony and slow him down.

Sad, really.

And Kori - Tony missed Barry WIDE open on one offensive possession where he got stuffed going one on five, and Pop was yelling at him to see the whole court because he had a man wide open. So while I think he definitely had the green light to score, I don't think it excuses him from taking the whole court into consideration.
That's well known that Tony struggles against SG with long arms defending on him, but that frees Ginobili because he will be against a PG. Remember that it will be the first time Ginobili will start in the playoff along with Parker, I don't think coaches will get confortable throwing their best defender on Parker and letting Manu against their PG.
You are right about Parker not looking for his partners as much as he should have, but apart of this he was great for the last two games with AI type of stats and with less TO. The really big problem was his 4th quarter performances.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Coaches don't have to throw their best defender on Tony, just a taller guard with some quickness. Kittles wasn't exactly all-NBA defense, but his long arms and height did the job.

[picnroll]

I rewatched the second half to see what hindered Parker. It wasn't Buckner per se. Parker has learned to deal with long, strong guards like Kittles since his first go around when Finley and Kittles gave him so much trouble in the playoffs.

The problem in this game was in part Parker wasn't as aggressive in the second half but mostly the Spurs were setting absolutely horrid picks. They were setting up way to early, rolling way too early, Not setting up for a repick, when Parker was getting jumped instead of the pick (Horry) rolling to the basket giving Parker an easy pass the pick faded to the sideline leaving Parker high and dry. That was one putrid game that Horry played last night.

[Kori Ellis]

In re-watching, did you see exactly when Parker got injured? He supposedly took a knee to the thigh and could barely walk at practice. But I don't remember seeing it happen in the game.

[picnroll]

Didn't see it. Didn't see him limping at any point. At first I thought it was the play where Miller and Martin banged knees but it looked like he came through that contact clean.

[Carnac]

Best regular season record over that time. But not most championships. Not even the most NBA championships.

The reason? Inability to executte down the stretch. It was a direct causes of the 2002 playoff loss; slighly less so in 2004. (And it's was something the had to overcome to win in 2003.)

And all indications are it's going to be a problem in 2005.

OK, they don't have the most championships, but they have the second most championships. You demand a title a year, or what? The Spurs are the NBA's model of consistancy.
The Spurs didn't lose because of an inability nto execute down the stretch. They lost because the Lakers had Shaq and Kobe who were both at the peaks of their games. The Spurs couldn't match that firepower every season. And we shouldn't have expected them to.

[ShoogarBear]

OK, they don't have the most championships, but they have the second most championships. You demand a title a year, or what? The Spurs are the NBA's model of consistancy.
The Spurs didn't lose because of an inability nto execute down the stretch. They lost because the Lakers had Shaq and Kobe who were both at the peaks of their games. The Spurs couldn't match that firepower every season. And we shouldn't have expected them to.

Maybe you didn't see the 2002 WC semifinals, when the Spurs led the Lakers in every 4th quarter but only won 1 of 5.

And anything less than making it to the Finals this year, when they have been the favorities almost since Day One, would be considered a disappointment.