General Trades Discussion

[MaNu4Tres]

I agree, I wouldnt toss in Butler as I like his upside, but blair and a future second rounder.

Spurs would have to match salaries by either throwing in Green or Butler.

[DPG21920]

I am not high on Jason Thompson. While I think he is ok and the trade is a good one, I personally haven't seen anything from him to make me believe he is going to be anything consistent. To me, a good 2 months does not outweigh all the other below mediocre performances. He has done far more "blah" than he has "wow".

Almost every player has a streak where they look damn good, which is why they are in the NBA. It's about getting something consistent and nothing I have seen with my eyes in real time or by digging into advanced stats shows me he is something to be overly excited about.

[MaNu4Tres]

I am not high on Jason Thompson. While I think he is ok and the trade is a good one, I personally haven't seen anything from him to make me believe he is going to be anything consistent. To me, a good 2 months does not outweigh all the other below mediocre performances. He has done far more "blah" than he has "wow".

Almost every player has a streak where they look damn good, which is why they are in the NBA. It's about getting something consistent and nothing I have seen with my eyes in real time or by digging into advanced stats shows me he is something to be overly excited about.

Like I said, he's not a superstar talent or anything like that, but you have to look at the off-season situation realistically. There is not much the Spurs can do in order to upgrade their front-court.

That being said, I would much rather have Jason Thompson over an Aaron Gray.

Who else is out that could be somewhat attainable?

Tyrus Thomas? Brandon Bass? What is out there? Not much if we are talking about attaining quality talent.

[TD 21]

the foul troubles are in fact the major issue about Johnson's game. but I don't see his weight as a major issue. btw. I don't think the 210 are still accurate, some players are still listed with the weight they had when they entered the league, even if they obviously have gained some weight. I think he is something like 220-225 right now. but yes, he will always struggle against bigger players in the post, but that's the price for having a PF quick enough to defend the perimeter. much like Tyrus Thomas in this regard and TT did have quite some fans on this board, when there were reports the Spurs are interested in trading for him.

Major issue might be overstating it, but it's an issue nonetheless. It's irrelevant on a team like the Raptors. On the Spurs, who are still trying to contend, he'd be their primary defender on guys like Gasol and Randolph. You're right about listed weights often being outdated. But in Johnson's case, if it is, it barely is.

I like Johnson's game though and considering the Spurs limited options, I'd trade Blair and McDyess for him. But I'd first offer the Raptors Jefferson and Blair for Johnson and Kleiza.

The Raptors might actually do this. Say what you want about Jefferson, but they'd be shipping out two overpaid players themselves, while getting an upgrade at SF and improving their league worst three-point shooting. They'd also get an inexpensive glass eater to replace Evans.

For the Spurs, Johnson's final year, at $7 million, is not guaranteed. So basically, they'd get him for 3 years and $18 million, which is reasonable. If there is a one time amnesty in the new CBA, Kleiza would be much more affordable for Holt to buy out than Jefferson. He has 4 years and $18.8 million left on his contract. But even if Holt wouldn't do so, it's still worth it. They'd essentially split Jefferson's money between a starting PF, and a backup SF, while paving the way for Leonard/Anderson to play more.

[DPG21920]

Like I said, he's not a superstar talent or anything like that, but you have to look at the off-season situation realistically. There is not much the Spurs can do in order to upgrade their front-court.

That being said, I would much rather have Jason Thompson over an Aaron Gray.

Who else is out that could be somewhat attainable?

Tyrus Thomas? Brandon Bass? What is out there? Not much if we are talking about attaining quality talent.

Like I said, the trade itself is fine, I was just commenting on what I would expect from it. It's a low risk gamble, but it's not a high reward one IMO. It's not something that I would just jump at, but I wouldn't be upset at it.

The Spurs have drafted quality nba players and to flip both of their best young assets when they are close to rebuilding for what could be mediocre young players isn't a great deal IMO. If you were to tell me that the Spurs were going to move Hill+Blair before the season, I would expect at least that RJ is gone with them and you get a pretty damn decent player back. Hill+Blair for Leonard+Thompson makes very little sense overall to me. It's a lateral move that doesn't do much to help the team legitimately compete and you lose two young players that would help you rebuild that actually have some proven NBA experience and have been productive.

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=67w3997

Darko & Splitter
Duncan & Dice
Ariza & Leonard
Manu & Webster
Parker & Neal

Strong, long, 10 deep, get rid of dead weights in Blair, RJ and Bonner. Add length strength and defense in Darko, an offensive wing player in webster and a defensive wing player in Ariza

[mystargtr34]

Darko Milicic has always been a guy i liked since he became a rotation player. He would be a huge upgrade for the Spurs and give them a true C. Top 5 shot blocker and probably a top 5 overall defensive C. Great size at 7'1' and good mobility.

[Russo21]

Same, i always felt sorry for him watching him glued to the bench in Detroit. I'm happy for him now he's a legit big man in the NBA, we could sure use his help:-)

[venitian navigator]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=67w3997

Darko & Splitter
Duncan & Dice
Ariza & Leonard
Manu & Webster
Parker & Neal

Strong, long, 10 deep, get rid of dead weights in Blair, RJ and Bonner. Add length strength and defense in Darko, an offensive wing player in webster and a defensive wing player in Ariza

you change Jhonson (Minnesota is not giving up on him so easily) with Beasley and the trade couild make a lot of sense for all the three teams involved

[venitian navigator]

re-visiting the trade, it works also so on nba trade machine :

SA takes : Ariza + Okafor
Minn takes : Jefferson + Blair + Bonner + Dice contract
N.O. takes : Milicic + Webster + Beasley


for different reasons, this could be a very good trade for all the teams included

[admiralsnackbar]

Minny doesn't need a Blair -- they have a rebound monster already. And Beasley is doing just fine as their SF, so why RJ?

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

Minny doesn't need a Blair -- they have a rebound monster already. And Beasley is doing just fine as their SF, so why RJ?

well they keep saying they want vets and signing a vet thru FA would be dumb seeing how pretty much everyone on there team is tradable & remember Kahn is still the GM.

[Ditty]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=43jttky

Spurs: Sessions,Kaman
Cavs:Mcdyess,Blair,Gomes
Clippers:Jefferson,Bonner,Varejao

Spurs get a big man who can score, not a great defender, but an upgrade over Blair, and Bonner defensively. Sessions would be the scoring back up point guard we need until Joseph develops in Austin.

Clippers get the veteran Small Forward they've been looking for, and get some help on there thin frontcourt.

Cavs get a small forward they need (Gomes), and a young power forward to back up to replace Hickson, and Mcdyess non guarnteed contract, and plus shed salary cap for the future.

Spurs go after Prince this offseason, and backup big man(Pryzbilla or Lorbek), and Dice gets boughout,and comes back during the season.

Kaman/Pyzbilla/Lorbek?
Duncan/Splitter/Mcdyess
Prince/Butler/Leonard'
Anderson/Manu/Neal
Parker/Sessions/Joseph

[Tyrone Jenkins]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=43jttky

Spurs: Sessions,Kaman
Cavs:Mcdyess,Blair,Gomes
Clippers:Jefferson,Bonner,Varejao

Spurs get a big man who can score, not a great defender, but an upgrade over Blair, and Bonner defensively. Sessions would be the scoring back up point guard we need until Joseph develops in Austin.

Clippers get the veteran Small Forward they've been looking for, and get some help on there thin frontcourt.

Cavs get a small forward they need (Gomes), and a young power forward to back up to replace Hickson, and Mcdyess non guarnteed contract, and plus shed salary cap for the future.

Spurs go after Prince this offseason, and backup big man(Pryzbilla or Lorbek), and Dice gets boughout,and comes back during the season.

Kaman/Pyzbilla/Lorbek?
Duncan/Splitter/Mcdyess
Prince/Butler/Leonard'
Anderson/Manu/Neal
Parker/Sessions/Joseph

Love the ideas - too bad it requires two other teams to be absolutely stupid to do it....

[elemento]

The problem is that we need a starting PF and the only expendable and valuable piece that we have is Blair, a PF. We would need to find a 3rd team.

With the pieces that we have, we won't be able to bring a starting PF, not a good one at least.

We should target teams with a logjam in the PF position. From what I know, the Bobcats, the Bucks and the Rockets have a logjam in the PF position

Bobcats : Thomas, Diaw, Najera, DJ White and Dante Cunningham
Rockets: Scola, Patterson, Monteijunas, Hill and Morris
Bucks: Drew Gooden, Larry Sanders Ersan Ilyasova, Jon Brockman, LRMM, Tobias Harris

Of course, the ones i like the most are the most expensive pieces. The cheap ones that could help us in my opinion are Diaw and Ilyasova.
LRMM is by far the best defender, but he can play both forward positions and don't think the Bucks will let him go. Plus, he can't shoot.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

The problem is that we need a starting PF and the only expendable and valuable piece that we have is Blair, a PF. We would need to find a 3rd team.

With the pieces that we have, we won't be able to bring a starting PF, not a good one at least.

We should target teams with a logjam in the PF position. From what I know, the Bobcats, the Bucks and the Rockets have a logjam in the PF position

Bobcats : Thomas, Diaw, Najera, DJ White and Dante Cunningham
Rockets: Scola, Patterson, Monteijunas, Hill and Morris
Bucks: Drew Gooden, Larry Sanders Ersan Ilyasova, Jon Brockman, LRMM, Tobias Harris

Of course, the ones i like the most are the most expensive pieces. The cheap ones that could help us in my opinion are Diaw and Ilyasova.
LRMM is by far the best defender, but he can play both forward positions and don't think the Bucks will let him go. Plus, he can't shoot.

i know he has a ton of character problems but the best talent we could prob get is M. Beasley. i think in an organization like the spurs he could straighten out some or maybe attempt to get A. Randolph because minnies at a logjam at the 4 and 5 as well.

[spurs10]

The problem is that we need a starting PF and the only expendable and valuable piece that we have is Blair, a PF. We would need to find a 3rd team.

With the pieces that we have, we won't be able to bring a starting PF, not a good one at least.

We should target teams with a logjam in the PF position. From what I know, the Bobcats, the Bucks and the Rockets have a logjam in the PF position

Bobcats : Thomas, Diaw, Najera, DJ White and Dante Cunningham
Rockets: Scola, Patterson, Monteijunas, Hill and Morris
Bucks: Drew Gooden, Larry Sanders Ersan Ilyasova, Jon Brockman, LRMM, Tobias Harris

Of course, the ones i like the most are the most expensive pieces. The cheap ones that could help us in my opinion are Diaw and Ilyasova.
LRMM is by far the best defender, but he can play both forward positions and don't think the Bucks will let him go. Plus, he can't shoot.
This is indeed our problem. With the addition of a good starting PF we're in pretty good shape. With the development of Tiago, Anderson, and Leonard we've got a better team than last year, if we can find a 4.....
:hat

[Tyrone Jenkins]

They drafted our 4 in the first round at pick 15 this year!:(

Leonard is NO 4. Matter of fact, he's the ANTI-4. He's a SF if there ever was one.

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3opu3x4
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3rqjxjr

Kwame Brown
Tim Duncan
Luol Deng
Manu Ginobili
Tony Parker

Something like that:-)

Kwame is massive at 6'11" 270lbs and would be good to clog the lane. One of the biggest no.1 pick busts in history. But he's massive and strong and good for 8pts 7 reb. I remember one game Duncan played against him back when he was with washington and Tim had a hard time going against him (he did still get 30pts lol but prime timmy was unstoppable)

Luol Deng is a massive upgrade over Dick Jefferson. Maybe Chicago might want a change after a poor playoff run (wishful thinking i know)

Would be 2 good additions to add size, lenth, strength, defense and versatility to go alongside Tim, Manu and Tony

[bluebellmaniac]

They drafted our 4 in the first round at pick 15 this year!:(

Sounds like an indictment of Pop's small ball ambitions.
:lol

[Tyrone Jenkins]

While I agree he is not a PF you may need to talk to Pop about that. Matt Bonner is no NBA player and def not a Center, yet pops plays him there. Blair is no Center yet again he plays there. Anderson is no SF yet he plays there...ect.

A SF if there ever was one.....A man who cant handle the ball, has avg foot speed, below avg leaper, no real jump shot and avg 15ppg against mostly poor comp.

This is your idea of an ideal SF?

While I like him and see great upside, if spurs are not able to sign a true big in the off season and Dice hangs them up, he will see alot of time at the 4.

I beg to differ - Blair IS a center. He's just undersized. When both Yao Ming and Brad Miller were injured for the Rockets, Chuch Hayes played center and did a fairly decent job given he's only 6'6". Magic Johnson was 6'9" and was a PG. Style of play determines positions - not size.

You are correct about Anderson not being a SF and Bonner not being a C. But, Bonner IS an NBA player - he's just a ROLE player. Expectations of Bonner by the fans (and Pop) are just unrealistic. He has his place in the NBA it's just not as prominent as the Spurs and Pop expect of him.

And you need to go back and look at Leonard's game tape (try youtube). The guy averaged 15 / 10 for a team that lost only 3 games but played Gonzaga, St Mary's, Utah twice, BYU 3 times, Temple and UConn. He was high scorer for his team 16 times and high rebounder 25 times - all this as a sophomore. He was considered the BEST pure SF prospect in the draft as well as one of the best defenders. He was 2nd team All-America by Assoc Press, FoxSports and Sporting News. But most importantly, his style of play is purely SF like - defensive, rebounding, hustling and jack of all trades but master or none type. If you can't see that, you don't know basketball.

With his versatility, he can play the 4 but he probably won't be great at it. He could probably even play the 2 some, but his outside shooting isn't good enough for that.

The dude is a 3.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

With his reach he was drafted long term to take over the 3 but short term to help at the 4 when teams go small as RJ cannot defend pf, and has a hard time defending sf's.

Completely agree w/ that. I'm hoping the Spurs won't play small ball all that often but we'll ahave to see what their other options are.

Your mentioning of a SF scoring mostly off of putbacks, etc...he didn't average 15 a game off of just putbacks. He doesn't have a GREAT midrange game but it's not completely non-existent. Even if it was, a SF's job in the Spurs system isn't to score a whole bunch of points. I would be happy if he scored 12 a game next year and only two of those points were from midrange. His job is more important to the team in other areas much like Ron Artest, Tashaun Prince, etc.

The Spurs value the SF position so much, they drafted 3 of them this past draft....

[ChuckD]

Completely agree w/ that. I'm hoping the Spurs won't play small ball all that often but we'll ahave to see what their other options are.

Your mentioning of a SF scoring mostly off of putbacks, etc...he didn't average 15 a game off of just putbacks. He doesn't have a GREAT midrange game but it's not completely non-existent. Even if it was, a SF's job in the Spurs system isn't to score a whole bunch of points. I would be happy if he scored 12 a game next year and only two of those points were from midrange. His job is more important to the team in other areas much like Ron Artest, Tashaun Prince, etc.

The Spurs value the SF position so much, they drafted 3 of them this past draft....

What? They drafted one SF, one PG, and one SG.

[mountainballer]

What? They drafted one SF, one PG, and one SG.

he's right, if you count Hanga as SG/SF. (which is accurate, considering he is 6'7'')
Leonard and Bertans are SFs.
that's 3.

[mountainballer]

totally unnecessary trade proposal #82623753:

thinking about the Raptors and their needs. thought about two scenarios:
#1: RJ + Blair for Johnson + Kleiza.

why the Raptors do it:
no matter if Valanciunas comes over this year or next summer, the core of their front court of the future will be Valanciunas-Bargnani-Davis and this looks pretty damn good. Johnson did well, but you don't want a player on a long term contract at 6 million when this player is just the #4 of your big rotation and a younger and less costly player (Davis) provides most of the qualities this player brings in.
Blair gets them the same production on the boards like Evans, but is a much better offensive player. (and younger) so they will like him. Valanciunas-Bargnani-Davis-Blair looks even better long term, considering none is older than 25.
Kleiza was a disappointment this season, they might think about getting rid of him. They need 3pt shooting desperately, RJ might be somehow intriguing. they won't like his big contract, but they get rid of more guaranteed money overall, so it's not a bad decision financially.

Spurs do it:
they bring in two not so good contracts for one bad contract. let's call it a wash. Johnson brings in qualities the Spurs desperately need. (defense, athleticism and mobility for the front court). they offered him a nice contract some years ago, so they liked him then. and he did improve significantly.
Kleiza+Leonard looks nice (at least on paper) for the SF spot. Kleiza is more versatile than RJ and probably also a better fit for a slower pace.

scenario #2:
RJ + Bonner + Blair + Joseph
for
Johnson + Kleiza + Bayless

Raptors might have some interest in a very young PG, who is from Toronto. Bonner is kind of a local guy either and a fan fav. he brings some more 3pt shooting, even considering his role would be very limited alongside Bargnani.

Bayless would give the Spurs a decent back up PG, he was a disappointment considering he was a lottery pick, but he isn't that bad. decent defender, would compensate for the loss of defense that Hill provided. has still nice upside at 22.

that trade would give us a depth chart:

Tony-Bayless-Manu
Manu-Neal-Anderson-Bayless
Kleiza-Leonard-Anderson-Butler
Johnson-Kleiza-(Dice?)-(Richards?)
Tim-Splitter-(Richards?)

fk. what a waste of time. fk the lock out!

[Bruno]

^ Kleiza has had a big knee surgery last February. He is out for 9-12 months. it will be hard to expect some kind of production from him in 2011-2012.

[admiralsnackbar]

it will be hard to expect some kind of production from him in 2011-2012.

Same may ultimately be said about the NBA season, so perhaps that isn't a pressing concern -- especially with our sudden depth at the 3 in the event the lock-out happens to conclude before Kleiza has fully recovered.

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3baoeu9

Gasol 18pps 10rpg long with good defense
Duncan
Artest- Tough, great defense. 35% 3PTFG
Ginobili
Stuckey 15ppg 5apg Ispg Finished the season on a tear averaging 25pts 9ast in his last 5 games.

Thats solid. Going from an undersized shit front court to a tall, strong, defensive front court

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3tgnefy

McGee 10ppg 8rpg 2.4bpg
Duncan
Dudley 11ppg 4rpg 1 spg 41% 3pfg
Manu
Nash 15ppg 11apg 40% 3pfg

Frontcourt gains size and defense and rebounding and presence, get one of the best distributers and shooters in history and a very solid SF who can hit the corner 3 ball and defense.

[jesterbobman]

Neither Detroit or Washington does either of those trades. In fact, I think they hang up the phone, and get all future calls blocked.

[Big P]

rj + cash + pick or prospect to Minnesota for Webster and A. Randolph works salary wise.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

rj + cash + pick or prospect to Minnesota for Webster and A. Randolph works salary wise.

they dont want anymore prospects. they want vets. so maybe a 2nd round pick or 2. dont want the spurs to give up a 1st round pick just to move RJ. but this is Kahn we are talking about so maybe they take rj straight up for webster & randolph or tolliver.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

I like the spurs going after Webster and Randolph,2 guys they should have been after for years. Randolph has put on wt, and could be really a nice pc beside TD. Webster can play the 2 or 3, solid all around.

I would see if Minn would take RJ and a pick for the two, as they are looking for vets and are going to an up tempo game that RJ does well in.

It would be real nice if we could get Darko who they seem to want off the books in the deal for say RJ, Anderson and a pick.

We add size and youth upfront, get better on D, dump RJ and have a bigger guy to start at sg, while making room for Kawhi to take over at SF.

TP Manu
Webster Neal
Kawhi Manu
Randolph Splitter
TD Darko

I like the look of that.

We must grab a Center and upgrade the 4 or the year is a waste.

this is one of a few realistic trades that would make us better but i would rather move blair than anderson.

Tp/neal
anderson/manu
Kawhi/webster
randolph/splitter/bonner
TD/Darko/mcdyess

and then a signing of a cheap PG like Carlos arroyo or telfair for insurance and they can push open the window for 1 last season before they enter the dreaded rebuild mode.

[venitian navigator]

this is one of a few realistic trades that would make us better but i would rather move blair than anderson.

Tp/neal
anderson/manu
Kawhi/webster
randolph/splitter/bonner
TD/Darko/mcdyess

and then a signing of a cheap PG like Carlos arroyo or telfair for insurance and they can push open the window for 1 last season before they enter the dreaded rebuild mode.

I like the trade, but I see minny more interested in eliminating big contracts...they will probably prefer to trade Beasley (and all his weed problems) than randolph, that has a "good" contract...

I can see a deal as the following

RJ+Dice contract+DSButler+Blair for Beasley + Webster+ Milicic(Pekovic)

it works on the nba trade machine...

than we have :

Parker-Neal-Joseph
Anderson-Manu-Green
Leonard-Webster-x
Duncan-Beasley-Bonner
Splitter-Milicic(Pekovic)-Richards

[TD 21]

totally unnecessary trade proposal #82623753:

thinking about the Raptors and their needs. thought about two scenarios:
#1: RJ + Blair for Johnson + Kleiza.

why the Raptors do it:
no matter if Valanciunas comes over this year or next summer, the core of their front court of the future will be Valanciunas-Bargnani-Davis and this looks pretty damn good. Johnson did well, but you don't want a player on a long term contract at 6 million when this player is just the #4 of your big rotation and a younger and less costly player (Davis) provides most of the qualities this player brings in.
Blair gets them the same production on the boards like Evans, but is a much better offensive player. (and younger) so they will like him. Valanciunas-Bargnani-Davis-Blair looks even better long term, considering none is older than 25.
Kleiza was a disappointment this season, they might think about getting rid of him. They need 3pt shooting desperately, RJ might be somehow intriguing. they won't like his big contract, but they get rid of more guaranteed money overall, so it's not a bad decision financially.

Spurs do it:
they bring in two not so good contracts for one bad contract. let's call it a wash. Johnson brings in qualities the Spurs desperately need. (defense, athleticism and mobility for the front court). they offered him a nice contract some years ago, so they liked him then. and he did improve significantly.
Kleiza+Leonard looks nice (at least on paper) for the SF spot. Kleiza is more versatile than RJ and probably also a better fit for a slower pace.

scenario #2:
RJ + Bonner + Blair + Joseph
for
Johnson + Kleiza + Bayless

Raptors might have some interest in a very young PG, who is from Toronto. Bonner is kind of a local guy either and a fan fav. he brings some more 3pt shooting, even considering his role would be very limited alongside Bargnani.

Bayless would give the Spurs a decent back up PG, he was a disappointment considering he was a lottery pick, but he isn't that bad. decent defender, would compensate for the loss of defense that Hill provided. has still nice upside at 22.

that trade would give us a depth chart:

Tony-Bayless-Manu
Manu-Neal-Anderson-Bayless
Kleiza-Leonard-Anderson-Butler
Johnson-Kleiza-(Dice?)-(Richards?)
Tim-Splitter-(Richards?)

fk. what a waste of time. fk the lock out!

This guy beat you to the punch (4th post) . . . http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5339918&

Two things that should be changed in that post. 1) Johnson's final season is $5 million guaranteed, which brings the total guaranteed money remaining to $23 million. That doesn't include his 5% trade kicker and performance bonuses, which he's unlikely to attain. 2) Kleiza only has 3 years and just over $13.5 million remaining on his contract. The final season is a player option, but considering how overpaid he is, it would be an upset of epic proportions were he not to exercise it.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is not only the most likely trade, but the only trade. If they can't pull it off, I could see them standing pat, for the simple fact that I don't see another realistic trade that makes sense on so many levels.

Two more reasons why the Raptors might make this trade. 1) Colangelo is not afraid to make big trades and take chances. 2) Colanegelo only got a two year extension, with a mandate to start winning.

Bruno, Kleiza's injury is irrelevant, he's just a necessary evil in the trade. The value lies in getting rid of Jefferson and acquiring Johnson. If he's not ready to go to start the season, then that's more minutes for the young guys. If he is ready, he'd probably start, at least until or unless Leonard showed he was ready to start.

Johnson/Bonner
Kleiza/Leonard/Butler
Duncan/Splitter
Ginobili/Anderson
Parker/Neal/Joseph

Add in a fifth big (Shelden Williams?) and a depth PG (Ivey?) and they'd be set.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

This guy beat you to the punch (4th post) . . . http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5339918&

Two things that should be changed in that post. 1) Johnson's final season is $5 million guaranteed, which brings the total guaranteed money remaining to $23 million. That doesn't include his 5% trade kicker and performance bonuses, which he's unlikely to attain. 2) Kleiza only has 3 years and just over $13.5 million remaining on his contract. The final season is a player option, but considering how overpaid he is, it would be an upset of epic proportions were he not to exercise it.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is not only the most likely trade, but the only trade. If they can't pull it off, I could see them standing pat, for the simple fact that I don't see another realistic trade that makes sense on so many levels.

Two more reasons why the Raptors might make this trade. 1) Colangelo is not afraid to make big trades and take chances. 2) Colanegelo only got a two year extension, with a mandate to start winning.

Bruno, Kleiza's injury is irrelevant, he's just a necessary evil in the trade. The value lies in getting rid of Jefferson and acquiring Johnson. If he's not ready to go to start the season, then that's more minutes for the young guys. If he is ready, he'd probably start, at least until or unless Leonard showed he was ready to start.

Johnson/Bonner
Kleiza/Leonard/Butler
Duncan/Splitter
Ginobili/Anderson
Parker/Neal/Joseph

Add in a fifth big (Shelden Williams?) and a depth PG (Ivey?) and they'd be set.

IDK i still believe that there are possible trades to move RJ to minnie or the clippers. trade to toronto does seems most likely but Kahn is in idiot and the clippers front office isnt much better.

[TD 21]

IDK i still believe that there are possible trades to move RJ to minnie or the clippers. trade to toronto does seems most likely but Kahn is in idiot and the clippers front office isnt much better.

I don't see a logical trade with the Timberwolves. Kahn has said they'd like to get some veterans, but I don't see them trading Randolph, unless they can get an upgrade at C or a wing scorer. Milicic is a plodding C, which is not what the Spurs are looking for.

The Clippers, maybe. But only if they don't sign Prince, Battier, Hill, Butler or Kirilenko. Unfortunately, there's no reason to think they won't.

Those thinking up trade proposals that include plodding C's are ignoring what Pop/Buford said and how the game is played today. Only one team essentially plays two C's together and that's the Lakers. They've done it in recent years because Gasol could defend PF's and because he and Bynum have been a dominating, overwhelming combination. Even they're not immune to the issues that comes with that though, as evidenced by the Mavs series. And it'll only become a more glaring issue as Gasol ages.

The only way the Spurs join them as the second team to play two C's together, is if they fail to acquire the type of PF they covet and come to the obvious conclusion that Splitter is the best in house option to start. If that comes to fruition, I could see them taking a flier on someone like Clark to be the fifth big.

[TD 21]

Wolves have no room for Randolph. With Love and Williams at the 4 Randolph will be a pine rider. If Nelson takes over as coach he is no fan of Randolph so be sure he will be out the door.

As far as Milicic, he quicker than TD and can play out on the floor. Hes still better than any big we have outside TD. He wouldnt fit the up tempo game Nelson wants to play.

Pops and RC can say what they want to but fact remains they have not improved the PF spot at all. If you want to get more athletic, which we need to on the back end, you need to make a trade, and so far we have failed to due that.

Thomas, Randolph, Smith have all been put on the market and we did little to attempt to get.

Be real nice to see the spurs take a chance this year and grab a young big who can run and defend. Smith would be perfect for us.

There is room. Kahn has talked about Randolph essentially playing backup C against most teams. That would leave the forward minutes to be split between Love, Beasley and Williams. Short of a trade that would fill one of their two needs, such as the Nets accepting Williams/Milicic for Lopez or the Pacers accepting Williams/Pekovic for Granger, look for them to build around Love, Williams, Milicic and Randolph on the front line. They'd probably like to move Beasley, who's redundant and Pekovic, who there's no room for.

Nelson probably won't get the job. He's old, expensive and clearly hasn't cared for years. They'll probably go cheap.

Whether Milicic is slightly quicker than Duncan or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that he can't defend PF's. If they're not thrilled with playing Splitter next to Duncan, then there's zero chance they pair him with a plodder.

They've barely had a chance to make moves and they won't have a chance to again until the lockout is over.

[TD 21]

Milicic was drafted as a PF, and can defend PF as he does very well against TD. As for Kahn, in no way can Randolph at 215 lbs defend NBA centers. He is rail thin and will never be able to hold much wt.

Kahn also has no idea what the hell he is doing. Drafting multiple pg one year to trade them away and come away with almost nothing. Then drafting multiple SF the next year, again comming away with nothing.

Then this year drafting a guy who plays the same spot as your two best players.

Im not sure Randolph can even be a full time player at the PF spot in the NBA, he would just be a nice fit with Blair, splitter and TD.

SA doesnt like Splitter and TD together not due to speed but the fact Tiago cannot play away from the basket so Tim gets jammed. Milicic can shoot. Milicic Runs the floor very well better than most PF in the NBA inclueding Love.

So was Pachulia, O'Neal, Noah, Varejao, Mahinmi, Andersen, Wallace, Biedrins, Okafor, Turiaf, Perkins, Howard, Camby, Splitter, Bargnani, Jefferson, Okur and Thomas. All of them now play C, some out of necessity, but most because of how the game has evolved over the past decade.

Milicic is 7-1, 275. In today's game, there's no way he can defend PF's on a consistent basis, even if he does move well for his size. Milicic had success against Duncan last season because of his declining mobility and the fact that he's 2 inches smaller and 20 pounds lighter. In other words, Duncan has no physical advantage over him. In his salad days, he'd have had Milicic in foul trouble early and often.

Kahn is an idiot, no question, but he's also their GM, so I'll take his word for it when he says Randolph is going to play a lot of backup C. Obviously, he won't be defending the Howard's and Bynum's of the world, but at 6-11, 225, if he adds 5-10 pounds this off season, he'd be virtually the same size as Noah, Mahinmi, Andersen, Biedrins, Camby, Splitter, etc. And with the way the game is played today, he can definitely be a full time PF.

They don't like it for the lack of spacing and because they don't seem to view Splitter as someone who can consistently defend PF's.

[mountainballer]

even if the Spurs did have a big hole at C, I wouldn't want Milicic. this guy is just dumb. (I rather take Pekovic, if the Wolves want to get rid of a center). he is one of the least efficient offensive players in the league (it's a bit of a myth that he can shoot. he hits them ocassionally and it looks nice, but overall his output is below average.) and 3 years / 15 million left isn't a great deal either. however, I agree that he isn't an option for the 4 and only has some value as a defensive 5.

Randolph would be a very intriguing thing. he might never get his shit together, but he still offers that kind of potential, that would be worth the risk. considering what he showed on some occasions at the end of last season (like a 31-11 game vs the Mavs or a 24-15 game vs. the Thunder) I'm not sure the Wolves see him as redundant, even with Williams comming in. and if they wanted to trade him, they will get better offers than what the Spurs have to offer.

[stephen jackson]

rj & bonner for rip & wilcox
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3qzmhre
whenever the league starts:bang

[MaNu4Tres]

Keep a look out for Caveman to SA for cash, RJ and Blair. SA has made Shane B Top FA target!

Texas 2 Step is...

The Ultimate Insider...:rolleyes

[objective]

Spurs sending cash in a deal with anyone for any reason? :lol

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Who is Caveman? Robin Lopez?

[monkeypunk]

I thought he meant Chris Kaman who would be a welcome addition for sure. Big body, plays defense... Not sure what his contract status is or that they would take RJ's contract back. Would suck to lose Blair's energy but Kawhi should provide a lot. That is, if Pop actually plays him.

[Russo21]

Who cares, the Spurs have no shot at a title. Sad but True

[Ditty]

Phew I thought Russo was back posting about his unrealistic trades.

[timtonymanu]

Phew I thought Russo was back posting about his unrealistic trades.

:lol

[Roger Freemason Jr.]

Okay so, who is Caveman?

[Ice009]

Okay so, who is Caveman?

Chris Kaman

[benefactor]

Who cares, the Spurs have no shot at a title. Sad but True
I will hold the sword so you can run on it.

[lurker23]

For what it's worth, it looks like Paul Millsap may be available:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/53006493-62/millsap-pacers-jazz-nba.html.csp

Only way I see the Spurs getting involved is if we heat up the Tony Parker rumor mill again, but figured I'd at least mention it considering the Spurs need for another big man.

[MaNu4Tres]

For what it's worth, it looks like Paul Millsap may be available:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/53006493-62/millsap-pacers-jazz-nba.html.csp

Only way I see the Spurs getting involved is if we heat up the Tony Parker rumor mill again, but figured I'd at least mention it considering the Spurs need for another big man.

Pass..

Doesn't fit what the Spurs need. (IMO)

[MaNu4Tres]

Watch for a Jason Thompson deal. Could really help the spurs up front and Sac does not want him anymore. Beno and Thompson for RJ, be a solid trade for us. .

:lol

[lurker23]

Pass..

Doesn't fit what the Spurs need. (IMO)

Yeah, I agree that Millsap's skillset isn't really what the Spurs are looking for. Not that I wouldn't want to have him, as he's talented, can score, and is currently on a relatively cheap contract. But a 4/5 who can defend and rebound is probably a much higher priority than a 3/4 who can shoot.

[Bill_Brasky]

Watch for a Jason Thompson deal. Could really help the spurs up front and Sac does not want him anymore. Beno and Thompson for RJ, be a solid trade for us. Then we can use some money on a flyer like Ajinca, or Fes.


:rollin

[sasffl]

Watch for a Jason Thompson deal. Could really help the spurs up front and Sac does not want him anymore. Beno and Thompson for RJ, be a solid trade for us. Then we can use some money on a flyer like Ajinca, or Fes.
Beno has been traded to Bucks

[Bruno]

If Utah makes a bigman available, I think it will be Al Jefferson and not Millsap. Utah could also be a little interested in RJ if they can't re-sign Kirilenko.

A trade like RJ+Dice+Blair+1st round pick for Al Jefferson would be a nice deal for Spurs but I doubt Utah will make such a move.

[MaNu4Tres]

If Utah makes a bigman available, I think it will be Al Jefferson and not Millsap. Utah could also be a little interested in RJ if they can't re-sign Kirilenko.

A trade like RJ+Dice+Blair+1st round pick for Al Jefferson would be a nice deal for Spurs but I doubt Utah will make such a move.

Love that deal. :tu

Only time will tell.

[yavozerb]

If Utah makes a bigman available, I think it will be Al Jefferson and not Millsap. Utah could also be a little interested in RJ if they can't re-sign Kirilenko.

A trade like RJ+Dice+Blair+1st round pick for Al Jefferson would be a nice deal for Spurs but I doubt Utah will make such a move.

I think this trade has about 1% chance of happening..Would be nice though

[mountainballer]

Watch for a Jason Thompson deal. Could really help the spurs up front and Sac does not want him anymore. Beno and Thompson for RJ, be a solid trade for us. Then we can use some money on a flyer like Ajinca, or Fes.

grat idea. this franchise really went down after Beno was traded away 2007.

[TD 21]

If Utah makes a bigman available, I think it will be Al Jefferson and not Millsap. Utah could also be a little interested in RJ if they can't re-sign Kirilenko.

A trade like RJ+Dice+Blair+1st round pick for Al Jefferson would be a nice deal for Spurs but I doubt Utah will make such a move.

I think they'll trade Jefferson if/when Kanter proves he can be their starting center. I think trading Millsap is more likely now, because not only can Jefferson play power forward, but more importantly, it would open up minutes for Favors.

I heard months ago that the Jazz think shooting guard might be Hayward's best position. If that's true, given their already limited dept at small forward, they may consider Jefferson, if they can't re-sign Kirilenko. Even in decline, he'd be their best wing scorer in a long time and he's the type of vet who'd seemingly be good to have around young players.

As a potential sweetner, the Spurs could throw in Butler or Green and take Bell off their hands. Then add whichever of Butler or Green is left over to Bell and offer that for Pietrus.

[DPG21920]

Not that it means anything, but I like Kanter. I think he will be a solid player.

[Brazil]

If Utah makes a bigman available, I think it will be Al Jefferson and not Millsap. Utah could also be a little interested in RJ if they can't re-sign Kirilenko.

A trade like RJ+Dice+Blair+1st round pick for Al Jefferson would be a nice deal for Spurs but I doubt Utah will make such a move.

Where do I sign ?

[DPG21920]

I used to be really high on Al, but I've cooled on him and his impact. I'm not sure how he would do on the Spurs, but I guess at worst we are getting all around talent up front where we need it.

[Brazil]

I used to be really high on Al, but I've cooled on him and his impact. I'm not sure how he would do on the Spurs, but I guess at worst we are getting all around talent up front where we need it.

I have my doubts too especially defensively but for RJ+Dice+Blair and a 1st round, you cannot not take it

[DPG21920]

I'm not saying I wouldn't want it to happen because in all honesty that is much bigger of a move than I can see realistically happening, but I'm simply stating I wouldn't expect it to make the Spurs a legit contender (would definitely put the Spurs closer than they are currently however.)

Also, I don't see Utah not getting much better offers if he's made available for certain :lol

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

I'm not saying I wouldn't want it to happen because in all honesty that is much bigger of a move than I can see realistically happening, but I'm simply stating I wouldn't expect it to make the Spurs a legit contender (would definitely put the Spurs closer than they are currently however.)

Also, I don't see Utah not getting much better offers if he's made available for certain :lol
if i remember correctly the mavs won a title with a defensive minded center in chandler and a offenisve PF in Dirk. seems like the same Frontline build the spurs would have with al jefferson & duncan.

& i agree utah would prob be offered monta ellis or possibly Danny Granger.

[Uriel]

If Utah makes a bigman available, I think it will be Al Jefferson and not Millsap. Utah could also be a little interested in RJ if they can't re-sign Kirilenko.

A trade like RJ+Dice+Blair+1st round pick for Al Jefferson would be a nice deal for Spurs but I doubt Utah will make such a move.

Meh, I'm not too high on Al Jefferson; at least, not high enough to give up a first round pick in THIS draft.

[ChuckD]

Meh, I'm not too high on Al Jefferson; at least, not high enough to give up a first round pick in THIS draft.

:lol

I've seen this sentiment about 20 or 30 times. I have a question: who do you think is better, available, and that we can get without parting with one of the Big Three? I'm all ears...

Al J isn't perfect, but he's clearly better than any other big on our roster not named Tim. He's a two time 20/10 player, a term that is massively abused. Every year, there's normally 3 to 4 guys who pull the real 20/10 for the season.

My favorite quality, though, is that he played 82 games last year at a 36 minute clip per game. In baseball, there is a pitching term: innings eater. You don't have to be a great pitcher to be an innings eater, you just have to be effective enough to start every time and not get knocked out early. If we get Al, we'll need him to be a minutes eater, an effective big that we can plug in and forget who can both score in the post and rebound. I really think Pop is going to NOT PLAY Tim in the middle game of any B2B2Bs, and rest him liberally on any B2Bs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

spurs should trade blair for a bigger player, whatever happen to that backup center for the magic....

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

spurs should trade blair for a bigger player, whatever happen to that backup center for the magic....
Ryan anderson? if thats who your talking about then i would do that trade in a heartbeat.

[portnoy1]

spurs should trade blair for a bigger player, whatever happen to that backup center for the magic....
If your talking about the Polish Hammer Marcin Gortat he is playing with the phoenix suns.

[Uriel]

:lol

I've seen this sentiment about 20 or 30 times. I have a question: who do you think is better, available, and that we can get without parting with one of the Big Three? I'm all ears...

Al J isn't perfect, but he's clearly better than any other big on our roster not named Tim. He's a two time 20/10 player, a term that is massively abused. Every year, there's normally 3 to 4 guys who pull the real 20/10 for the season.

My favorite quality, though, is that he played 82 games last year at a 36 minute clip per game. In baseball, there is a pitching term: innings eater. You don't have to be a great pitcher to be an innings eater, you just have to be effective enough to start every time and not get knocked out early. If we get Al, we'll need him to be a minutes eater, an effective big that we can plug in and forget who can both score in the post and rebound. I really think Pop is going to NOT PLAY Tim in the middle game of any B2B2Bs, and rest him liberally on any B2Bs.

Yes, I understand that. But let's look at things from a big picture perspective.

Suppose the Spurs were able to pull of Bruno's trade, then what would be the implications? Would the Spurs be more competitive this season? Without a doubt. But take a look at what happens beyond that.

The 2012 free agent crop will include, among others, names like Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, and Chris Paul -- franchise cornerstones. Now, I'm not saying we would definitely be able to acquire any of those players in the first place, but if we coupled Duncan's $21.7M expiring contract with using the amnesty clause on RJ, we would suddenly have a gargantuan amount of cap room to instigate a proper rebuilding project. A first round pick in what will be one of the strongest and deepest draft classes of all time would only serve to further that cause.

The fact is, acquiring Al Jefferson and his contract as well as giving up a first round pick at this point only helps us in the short term. In the long run, he is not the kind of player whom we can eventually build our team around. His presence in and of itself would also derail our chances at landing a high lottery pick, which is theoretically another route the Spurs could take in returning to relevance.

All in all, acquiring him then could certainly revive our championship hopes this season. But it could potentially cripple them in the years to come.

[ChuckD]

Yes, I understand that. But let's look at things from a big picture perspective.

Suppose the Spurs were able to pull of Bruno's trade, then what would be the implications? Would the Spurs be more competitive this season? Without a doubt. But take a look at what happens beyond that.

The 2012 free agent crop will include, among others, names like Deron Williams, Dwight Howard, and Chris Paul -- franchise cornerstones. Now, I'm not saying we would definitely be able to acquire any of those players in the first place, but if we coupled Duncan's $21.7M expiring contract with using the amnesty clause on RJ, we would suddenly have a gargantuan amount of cap room to instigate a proper rebuilding project. A first round pick in what will be one of the strongest and deepest draft classes of all time would only serve to further that cause.

The fact is, acquiring Al Jefferson and his contract as well as giving up a first round pick at this point only helps us in the short term. In the long run, he is not the kind of player whom we can eventually build our team around. His presence in and of itself would also derail our chances at landing a high lottery pick, which is theoretically another route the Spurs could take in returning to relevance.

All in all, acquiring him then could certainly revive our championship hopes this season. But it could potentially cripple them in the years to come.

I can tell you we're definitely not getting any of those FAs. A Jefferson trade would be only to keep the window open a paper thickness crack for about 2-3 more years. I'm personally not in any hurry to push Tim out the door. His per minute numbers are still really good. Having Al allows him to play less without us sucking. I recognize that we definitely have to blow it up at some point, but I'm wanting that NOT to be next summer. I'm not sure that you realize that it takes 2-3 years of shit before you come out the other side. There are no quick fixes.

The big FA thing almost never works anyway. Name the last champion, besides the 2000-2002 Lakers who signed Shaq in 1996, who built their team around a marquee FA signed to be the cornerstone of a franchise.

[Uriel]

I can tell you we're definitely not getting any of those FAs. A Jefferson trade would be only to keep the window open a paper thickness crack for about 2-3 more years. I'm personally not in any hurry to push Tim out the door. His per minute numbers are still really good. Having Al allows him to play less without us sucking. I recognize that we definitely have to blow it up at some point, but I'm wanting that NOT to be next summer. I'm not sure that you realize that it takes 2-3 years of shit before you come out the other side. There are no quick fixes.

The big FA thing almost never works anyway. Name the last champion, besides the 2000-2002 Lakers who signed Shaq in 1996, who built their team around a marquee FA signed to be the cornerstone of a franchise.

http://www.criticalthinking.org.uk/unit2/fundamentals/logicalfallacies/appealtohistory/

[ChuckD]

Nice, but inapplicable to the limited marketplace of the NBA, and San Antonio's lack of appeal to marquee players and their endorsement companies. Peter Holt didn't help himself during the CBA negotiations, either.

If we couldn't pull a big FA in 2003 with cap room AND a prime Tim Duncan, it's just never going to happen. You forgot this part, too


The big FA thing almost never works anyway. Name the last champion, besides the 2000-2002 Lakers who signed Shaq in 1996, who built their team around a marquee FA signed to be the cornerstone of a franchise.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

OK Sports Fans,

Here's a trade that you need to THINK about. That is, take a few minutes, internalize the meaning, think about the impacts 2-5 years from now and consider the 2013 Spurs team after TD has retired and they are $30 mil under the salary cap.

TRADE: Richard Jefferson, Tony Parker and DeJuan Blair

for

Kirk Hinrich, Josh Smith and their 1st round pick next year.

What the Spurs lose - notably is TP and his 18 pts, 6 assists and 2 steals a game but more important is his control of the game and decision making. RJ leaving is addition through subtraction and Blair leaving is essentially the loss of a "niche" player who's undersized to play any of the positions he able to play.

What the Spurs gain - notably the PF of the future. Splitter has proven to be a player who can complement a scorer w/ his rebounding, defense and back to the basket offense. Kirk Hinrich is a game manager, a 3 pt threat and fairly decent passer. He's no use defensively but at least the loss of offensive production from TP will be made up by Josh Smith.

Plus, that give the Spurs 2 1st round picks next year when they have the financial resources to trade up and get a fairly high priced player.

That would leave the Spurs with:

PG - Hinrich, Neal, Joseph
SG - Ginobili, Anderson, Butler)
SF - Leonard, Butler, Green
PF - Smith, Splitter, McDyess, Bonner, Novak
C - Duncan, Splitter, McDyess

Scoring will come from the SG, PF and C positions while defensive will be from the SG, SF, PF, and C positions (perfect for matching up w/ OKC, LA, NO and Memphis).

[ChuckD]

There are players the Spurs will never acquire. Josh Smith is one of them. He's a mean mugging fake tough guy who has no idea how to actually win. He bitches and grouses if plays aren't run for him, in spite of the fact that he's probably the second worst jump shooter in the NBA, behind Rondo, who plays heavy rotation minutes. He'd be fantastic if he'd just stick to doing the things he does well, but that's not who he is. A good analogy would be that he thinks he's Michael Jordan, but he's actually Scotty Pippen. Being Scotty Pippen is a good thing if you understand that's who you are. If you're Pippen, but you think you're Jordan, that's trouble for coaches, team mates, and you.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs would have to do that trade if presented IMO, but I don't see anyway ATL goes for that.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

There are players the Spurs will never acquire. Josh Smith is one of them. He's a mean mugging fake tough guy who has no idea how to actually win. He bitches and grouses if plays aren't run for him, in spite of the fact that he's probably the second worst jump shooter in the NBA, behind Rondo, who plays heavy rotation minutes. He'd be fantastic if he'd just stick to doing the things he does well, but that's not who he is. A good analogy would be that he thinks he's Michael Jordan, but he's actually Scotty Pippen. Being Scotty Pippen is a good thing if you understand that's who you are. If you're Pippen, but you think you're Jordan, that's trouble for coaches, team mates, and you.

You actually may be right...

But Josh Smith won't need to be a jump shooter in Pop's system as he would be the focus down low. I think a lot of Smith's whining is due to being on a team that has no credible chance of making it to the Conf finals much less a championship.

The biggest challenge for the Spurs is finding a PF that can be a PF. Right now, they have multiple centers and the one guy who could play PF (Blair) is a defensive liability due to size.

[ChuckD]

You actually may be right...

But Josh Smith won't need to be a jump shooter in Pop's system as he would be the focus down low. I think a lot of Smith's whining is due to being on a team that has no credible chance of making it to the Conf finals much less a championship.

The biggest challenge for the Spurs is finding a PF that can be a PF. Right now, they have multiple centers and the one guy who could play PF (Blair) is a defensive liability due to size.

Everyone in Pop's system, except Tim, has to be a jump shooter, and if you want meaningful rotation minutes, you'd better be able to stick the three.

Smith whines because he is a whiner.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

You actually may be right...

But Josh Smith won't need to be a jump shooter in Pop's system as he would be the focus down low. I think a lot of Smith's whining is due to being on a team that has no credible chance of making it to the Conf finals much less a championship.

The biggest challenge for the Spurs is finding a PF that can be a PF. Right now, they have multiple centers and the one guy who could play PF (Blair) is a defensive liability due to size.
we never know Pops plans on how he will play his players. we all thought RJ was going to be playing a slasher but instead just stood in the corner.

wouldnt be surprised if pop would run the same play set for Smith as he does Bonner b/c he knock down a 3 here and there.

But if the trade has a chance they have to pull the trigger.

[ChuckD]

we never know Pops plans on how he will play his players. we all thought RJ was going to be playing a slasher but instead just stood in the corner.

wouldnt be surprised if pop would run the same play set for Smith as he does Bonner b/c he knock down a 3 here and there.

But if the trade has a chance they have to pull the trigger.

Speak for yourself. The only slashers on this team are Tony and Manu. Everyone else is either a pick and pop player or a spot up shooter. Too many slashers or post up players crowds the paint and makes the opponents playing D too easy. It's all about the spacing.

[underdawg]

Speak for yourself. The only slashers on this team are Tony and Manu. Everyone else is either a pick and pop player or a spot up shooter. Too many slashers or post up players crowds the paint and makes the opponents playing D too easy. It's all about the spacing.

not being able to get offensive rebounds helps the d too. If the Spurs had a chance at this deal, they would be stupid not to pull the trigger.

[ChuckD]

not being able to get offensive rebounds helps the d too. If the Spurs had a chance at this deal, they would be stupid not to pull the trigger.

Help me! Do people here even watch this team? Pop has NEVER stressed offensive rebounding. On the contrary, he pretty much abandons them to have the Spurs get back on D and prevent easy points on run outs. That's why Pop places a premium on good shot selection and ball movement. You GET good high percentage shots, and DENY your opponents the same. If you understand this, you understand why Josh Smith will never be a Spur.

[underdawg]

Help me! Do people here even watch this team? Pop has NEVER stressed offensive rebounding. On the contrary, he pretty much abandons them to have the Spurs get back on D and prevent easy points on run outs. That's why Pop places a premium on good shot selection and ball movement. You GET good high percentage shots, and DENY your opponents the same. If you understand this, you understand why Josh Smith will never be a Spur.

I won't argue that pop stresses transition d, but is it a coincidence that after '05 as the off rebounds dropped so did the defense?

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6tek58u

Duncan
Smith
Williams
Manu
Parker

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7xlo5cb

Asik
Duncan
Deng
Manu
Parker

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cgzajne

Duncan
Varejao
Casspi
Manu
Tony

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=844ltew

Duncan
Anderson
Turkoglu
Manu
Tony

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=72xefwa

Anderson
Duncan
Ganiilinari
Manu
Tony J.R Smith

[Russo21]

SCOLA POST!

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ccaxcoa

Duncan
Scola
Kevin Martin
Manu
Goran Drajic

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=77kbc6h

Kamaan
Duncan
Aminu/ Gomez
Manu
Tony

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7cvhf8m

Okafor
Duncan
Ariza
Manu
Tony

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Help me! Do people here even watch this team? Pop has NEVER stressed offensive rebounding. On the contrary, he pretty much abandons them to have the Spurs get back on D and prevent easy points on run outs. That's why Pop places a premium on good shot selection and ball movement. You GET good high percentage shots, and DENY your opponents the same. If you understand this, you understand why Josh Smith will never be a Spur.

Now that I think about it, I think I lean more toward your thinking than my original. However, I think you and I both agree that no matter what the Spurs do, they will not be a championship team until they get a better inside scoring presence than TD.

That may happen this year, it may happen after TD is gone or it may never happen. But, until it does, the Pop system won't work.

[ChuckD]

Now that I think about it, I think I lean more toward your thinking than my original. However, I think you and I both agree that no matter what the Spurs do, they will not be a championship team until they get a better inside scoring presence than TD.

That may happen this year, it may happen after TD is gone or it may never happen. But, until it does, the Pop system won't work.

Tim is still fine in the post, he's just limited in his minutes, and this year, the games that he can play. We need an additional post scorer for that other 20 minutes per game that Tim doesn't play, and the games he's going to have to miss on B2Bs and B2B2Bs this year.

[EmantheSpursFan]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=77kbc6h

Kamaan
Duncan
Aminu/ Gomez
Manu
Tony

I believe Aminu might be on the block since the Clips just acquired Caron Butler. I wonder what it would take to get him

[Russo21]

I believe Aminu might be on the block since the Clips just acquired Caron Butler. I wonder what it would take to get him

Think he might be. He'd be fantastic

[EmantheSpursFan]

This would make my offseason

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=caqmuvd

well maybe add another big like Kwame


Tony-Neal-Ford-Joseph
Manu-Anderson-Neal
Leonard-Aminu
Tim-Bonner-Kwame?
Kaman-Tiago-Kwame?

We would get younger and a lot bigger in the paint. Clippers would save some money to re-sign jordan and get a cheap backup for blake in blair.

:toast

[5in10]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6u2lhee
Bullshit trade I know, but one can dream.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7bemmaz
Athletic big, ideal for face up power forwards. Not sure how he gets along with Silas.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cft7kd8

Amir Johnson would give us a big who could block shots, hit the midrange sometimes.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6ln5swl

Bargs would give us the big we need to space the floor and play pick n pop, of course he would have to give more effort on D.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d9b3s9v

Varejao is a good pick and roll defender and also has a decent midrange jumper.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=btdm9lv

Not sure how much we need big AL, considering floor spacing is already a problem

[spectator]

i have not seen much of chicago for the past 2 seasons, so forgive my ignorance when i ask how much is taj gibson worth to the spurs?

1. blair + 2 second round picks
2. blair + neal
3. blair + 1 first round pick
4. blair + ja + 1 first round pick

i know that most of these are probably too much, but you have to be willing to take a hit to make chicago bite.

from what i've researched, the dude is a legit 6'9, so he may be able to help more than blair on defense. i do not know. this is just a thought. what do you guys think?

[spectator]

per hoopdata, blair and gibson are very similar in scoring percentages this season (both played 9 games):

blair - gibson
rim: 60% - 72.7%
3-9 ft: 41.4% - 41.7%
10-15 ft: 25% - 25%
16-23 ft: 0% - 25%

[spectator]

if we are to use PER, blair wins the race by a landslide; however, we all know bowen did not have a great PER, while being the 4th best player on a championship team.

i am NOT saying gibson is bowen on defense. i am only suggesting that he may be better than blair and the spurs are already stacked at shooting guard, so sending blair + 1 shooting guard + 1-2 second rounders would be ok with me as long as gibson would be a significant improvement at PF

[ace3g]

Grizz still trying to trade OJ:

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Nets-Grizzlies talks included scenarios for Anthony Morrow and a pick for O.J. Mayo, but discussions have lost traction, sources tell Y!

[CGD]

Grizz still trying to trade OJ:

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Nets-Grizzlies talks included scenarios for Anthony Morrow and a pick for O.J. Mayo, but discussions have lost traction, sources tell Y!

Wow, OJ's value has drop significantly! Marrow + Pick...

[dylankerouac]

That's nuts. The hype around him was pretty big earlier in his career if I remember correctly. I also remember he was cold blooded during the playoffs and another one of those Griz players that couldn't miss a shot.

[Mel_13]

Wow, OJ's value has drop significantly! Marrow + Pick...

Memphis knows, and so does everyone else, that there's no way they'll be able to keep him this summer when his rookie contract expires. Their owner has said that they'll avoid the luxury and they have a fortune tied up in the contracts of Gay/ZBo/Gasol/Conley. They probably won't even be able to risk tendering the necessary QO (over 7M) to make him a restricted FA.

[CGD]

Memphis knows, and so does everyone else, that there's no way they'll be able to keep him this summer when his rookie contract expires. Their owner has said that they'll avoid the luxury and they have a fortune tied up in the contracts of Gay/ZBo/Gasol/Conley. They probably won't even be able to risk tendering the necessary QO (over 7M) to make him a restricted FA.

Good point. I think its interesting to see teams that for a long time were just stocking up young talent, now actually have to pay to retain them. OKC, Memphis and Portland are a few that come to mind with the Twolves entering in that realm in a few years.

[Russo21]

Leonard has already made RJ expendable. He is a better rebounder and defender then RJ by far, Danny Green has let the spurs know what he can do. When Manu comes back we really don't have a need for RJ as Leonard and Green have been so good. I wander if there is any team out there willing to swap RJ for a big...

[Mel_13]

Leonard has already made RJ expendable. He is a better rebounder and defender then RJ by far, Danny Green has let the spurs know what he can do. When Manu comes back we really don't have a need for RJ as Leonard and Green have been so good. I wander if there is any team out there willing to swap RJ for a big...

Doubtful, but if Leonard and Green prove out over the course of a full season then it makes it more likely that the Spurs use the amnesty on RJ in July.

[nickdaquick]

What about Blair and Anderson for Jason Thompson or JJ Hickson? Would Sacto go for Thompson? Would Hickson be an improvement over Blair?

[Bruno]

What about Blair and Anderson for Jason Thompson or JJ Hickson? Would Sacto go for Thompson? Would Hickson be an improvement over Blair?

I rather take JJ Hickson than Thompson. Hickson had some really good stretches with the Cavs.

More generally, Spurs will have to make some choices with their bigmen regarding next year. They have a lot of options: Duncan, Splitter, Blair, Bonner, Lorbek, draft pick , free agent...
Blair might very well be caught in a number game and end up as the deep end of the bench. Trading him at the trade deadline or this summer might be the best thing to do for Spurs.

[jesterbobman]

Is Hickson gettable? I would have thought it would take a lot, given what Sacramento gave up for him, and they'd require a 1st round pick in exchange. Hickson's a better player, but I think I'd like the price for Thompson more.

[DPG21920]

Hickson wouldn't help at all IMO.

[elemento]

Don't wanna any part of Hickson. Head-case, stat-padder and poor defender. This guy thought he deserved a max contract from CLE when he was there. :lmao

I'd rather Jason Thompson easily and since he is not in SAC future plans i guess he would come cheap. Not a future star, not a high bbiq player, but a glue guy that gets the job done. Coachable, Good size, good athleticism and decent defender.

That's what we need right now.

[Bruno]

Right now, Jason Thompson is starting for Sacramento while Hickson is on the bench getting less minutes. It's unclear who is in Kings' long term plan and who has the most trade value.

The situation should be more clear at the trade deadline when the season will be more advanced. What looks likely is that one of them could be available.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

been wanting J Thompson on the spurs for a couple years now.

Hicksons just as dumb as blair but at least he has size & would be a slight improvment over blair.

[Mal]

Will Denver Nuggets have any rights to Wilson Chandler ?

[dbestpro]

Will Denver Nuggets have any rights to Wilson Chandler ?

He is RFA.

[ace3g]

didn't know where to post this: but I was searching "Spurs trade" on twitter and this came up

Baustin213 Ben Austin
Just saw Spurs head of player personnel in TD Garden. Are there some trade rumors I haven't heard about?

---

https://twitter.com/#!/Baustin213/status/164842203024343041

Celtics are playing the Raptors tonight, not sure if this is a normal thing, we aren't playing either team soon. Something to think about

[yavozerb]

didn't know where to post this: but I was searching "Spurs trade" on twitter and this came up

Baustin213 Ben Austin
Just saw Spurs head of player personnel in TD Garden. Are there some trade rumors I haven't heard about?

---

https://twitter.com/#!/Baustin213/status/164842203024343041

Celtics are playing the Raptors tonight, not sure if this is a normal thing, we aren't playing either team soon. Something to think about

Bargnani and Davis are really the only 2 players would interest me from either team..Probably nothing though

[Bruno]

It's likely some advance scouting.

Raptors have a new coach and Spurs will play them in a couple of weeks. Spurs' scout was at the game to see Raptors' new offensive and defensive scheme.

[angelbelow]

Bargnani and Davis are really the only 2 players would interest me from either team..Probably nothing though

I'm sure Timvp would love to have him as well.

[ace3g]

It's likely some advance scouting.

Raptors have a new coach and Spurs will play them in a couple of weeks. Spurs' scout was at the game to see Raptors' new offensive and defensive scheme.

You are most likely correct, I didn't go far enough through the schedule to see that we play the Raptors on the 15th.

[mountainballer]

It's likely some advance scouting.

Raptors have a new coach and Spurs will play them in a couple of weeks. Spurs' scout was at the game to see Raptors' new offensive and defensive scheme.

your estimation makes sense, but it doesn't make fun, so I play the devil's advocate a bit.

if they are just preparing for their meeting with the Raptors, why do they scout a game, when their best player isn't playing? (it was reported a day before, that Bargnani won't travel to Boston).

why do they scout a road game, when they will play the Raptors in Toronto?

if they wanted to see them against a team like the Celtics (who are somehow comparable to the Spurs), why don't they scout the game in Toronto next weeks, when they play them at home with Bargnani back in the line up?

so let's play the what if game...
what if the Spurs in fact scouted a player, either from the Raptors or the Celtics? who makes sense?

Spurs once tried hard to get Amir Johnson. he would likely make the most sense (mobile big man defender, shot blocker), but the contract numbers are hard to match, unless the Raptors take Bonner. (there is quite a close relationship of Matt to the Raptors). Johneson is somehow redundant in Toronto with Davis providing the same qualities (on lower cost and more upside). he already slipped in the rotation. Bonner plus JA would work. (Raptors might be pretty interested in JA as well, could take Butlers spot, who played quite bad this season).

Kleiza could be another option. (Spurs would use him as small ball PF) the Spurs package could be the same. Kleiza is back from his injury, looks healthy and played pretty well in some games. (but he didn't play in Boston!)

James Johnson would also fit the small ball PF profile. he might be the odd man out, now that Kleiza is back.
what about JA for James Johnson? Raptors might see more use for Anderson than they have for Johnson. btw. Johnson has a lot of flaws, but he showed some quite impressive shot blocking.

and to not only look at the Raptors: what about Brandon Bass?
Blair+Bonner for Bass would work. if Celtics think Blair will give them the same production, they might be interested, Bonner adds some more depth. the overall costs for the Celtics are the same. Spurs might see bass as a better fit alongside Tim and Tiago, because he is more mobile and has a better range than Blair.

a minor option could be JaJuan Johnson for JA.

[DPG21920]

I'm sure the Spurs are trying to move Blair (by sure I mean in my opinion). His level of play plus his contract situation (upcoming) decision should have him on the trade block.

Amir would be a very solid addition to the team and would add another talented youngster to the Spurs. However he eats into cap space the next 3 years. The question really becomes would you rather pay Amir the 6m or Blair whatever he will command (prob 3-4m) or is the cap space more valuable? Tough question.

[mountainballer]

Blair's contract doesn't end before 2013, so this isn't a cap space issue this summer.
assuming Amir Johnson can only be acquired with the Bonner contract, the cap implication for 2012 isn't that dramatic as well. he eats 2.4 million cap space compared to the situation before the trade. considering we won't get a premium FA and would need to overpay a player of Amir's level to come here anyhow, this isn't a bad deal as well.
just a guess: Spurs do the trade, amnesty RJ, re sign Tim for 8, bring in Lorbek for 3 per, this still leaves about 3-4 million for another FA.
Tim-Tiago-Lorbek-Johnson-Blair looks like a high quality front court rotation. much better than what we currently have.

so yes, I would do it.

[DPG21920]

I find it unlikely they move Bonner, it would be Blair IMO.

[DPG21920]

Also Blair will be looking for a contract and his final year is fully Non-guaranteed.

[yavozerb]

Best case scenario is that the spurs could move RJ for a big then use the amnesty on Bonner in the offseason..

[Mel_13]

Blair's contract doesn't end before 2013, so this isn't a cap space issue this summer.
assuming Amir Johnson can only be acquired with the Bonner contract, the cap implication for 2012 isn't that dramatic as well. he eats 2.4 million cap space compared to the situation before the trade. considering we won't get a premium FA and would need to overpay a player of Amir's level to come here anyhow, this isn't a bad deal as well.
just a guess: Spurs do the trade, amnesty RJ, re sign Tim for 8, bring in Lorbek for 3 per, this still leaves about 3-4 million for another FA.
Tim-Tiago-Lorbek-Johnson-Blair looks like a high quality front court rotation. much better than what we currently have.

so yes, I would do it.

Yeah, Bonner+JA for Amir Johnson? I'd do it, too.



Also Blair will be looking for a contract and his final year is fully Non-guaranteed.

Which means the Spurs don't have to talk to him until 2013.

If Blair is traded, I would expect something similar to the Hill trade where the Spurs get a low lottery pick in return.

[5in10]

Blair for Gustavo ayon.

[TD 21]

Blair's contract doesn't end before 2013, so this isn't a cap space issue this summer.
assuming Amir Johnson can only be acquired with the Bonner contract, the cap implication for 2012 isn't that dramatic as well. he eats 2.4 million cap space compared to the situation before the trade. considering we won't get a premium FA and would need to overpay a player of Amir's level to come here anyhow, this isn't a bad deal as well.
just a guess: Spurs do the trade, amnesty RJ, re sign Tim for 8, bring in Lorbek for 3 per, this still leaves about 3-4 million for another FA.
Tim-Tiago-Lorbek-Johnson-Blair looks like a high quality front court rotation. much better than what we currently have.

so yes, I would do it.

Good point.

But I'm not sure the Spurs would be willing to include Bonner in a Johnson trade and I actually think the Raptors might be more interested in Jefferson, if they first fail to sign Chandler, that is. They desperately need a starting caliber SF, outside shooting and credible veterans. He fits the bill on all counts. And because they'd dump Johnson's contract in the trade, have a lot of cap space and are willing to spend, his contract wouldn't be the financial burden for them that it is for the Spurs. The Spurs should offer Jefferson and Blair for Johnson and Gray, then waive Thomas. This would drop approximately $4.3 million from their payroll and give them a more balanced roster.

[mountainballer]

big game from Johnson last nicht. (18-13-3)
in this form he would definitely be a nice acquisition.
before that game he delivered a stretch of multiple weak games. it was reported, that some personal off court issues might be the reason for his lack of effort. well, whatever is going on off court, sometimes a change of scenery is seen as a chance to solve such issues. maybe the Raptors think the same way?

[angelbelow]

I know absolutely nothing about Amir other than he was drafted by the pistons with Maxiel and both were hyped as contributors and is now with the Raptors. In case anyone else is in my shoes, here some info I dug up on the guy:

Amir Johnson is only 24 years old but this is actually his 6th season. This guy isn't the complete package but provides some nice assets. Hes a legit 6'10 and hes super athletic. Last season he played a career high 25.7 minutes which led to him producing career highs in ppg (9.6) rebounding (6.4) and FT% (78% with 2.2FTA). One disappointing statistic is his BPG, in 2007/08, he averaged 1.3 on just 12 MPG. Last season he averaged 1.2 BPG. BPG is one of those situation stats though.. not always beneficial to the team so not a big deal.

Beyond statistic, does anyone know what his gameplay/style is like?

[mountainballer]

with Bargnani playing PF, Johnson is moved to center more often than he should. likely a reason why he struggles this season. he is to small and light for that. he is a pure PF. limited on offense, not much range, but can play a decent P&R and is a very good offensive rebounder. finishes well at the rim and used to score quite efficient. (not this season)
good help defender, average man defender.
hard working hustle player.

[angelbelow]

with Bargnani playing PF, Johnson is moved to center more often than he should. likely a reason why he struggles this season. he is to small and light for that. he is a pure PF. limited on offense, not much range, but can play a decent P&R and is a very good offensive rebounder. finishes well at the rim and used to score quite efficient. (not this season)
good help defender, average man defender.
hard working hustle player.

Then the question begs would they prefer to get more size/center in return for Johnson?

I want to say the best trade scenario for us is Bonner and JA because then our cap flexibility wouldn't be affected at all. But realistically it would probably take Blair too.

From your insight, he sounds to be an instant upgrade over Blair.. but whether hes a 5 million dollar upgrade would be the big question. For Bonner and James Anderson this is a no brainer though.

[DPG21920]

Mel, since Blair is non-guaranteed, do you not think the Spurs will view him as an expiring to open up additional cap space next year? If they know they want cap space and that Blair will want to extend, would trading him this year not make sense?

[Mel_13]

Mel, since Blair is non-guaranteed, do you not think the Spurs will view him as an expiring to open up additional cap space next year? If they know they want cap space and that Blair will want to extend, would trading him this year not make sense?

He barely makes the minimum, so there is no real cap space to be gained.

Trading him seems a strong possibility. Much like with Hill, they get three very cheap years and then trade him before they have to pay him. A similar trade for a draft pick wouldn't surprise me.

[DPG21920]

I know he's cheap but depending on Tim they might need every bit of cap space they can get. It will be interesting to see his trade value considering his extremely valuable, albeit small, contract.

[Mel_13]

I know he's cheap but depending on Tim they might need every bit of cap space they can get. It will be interesting to see his trade value considering his extremely valuable, albeit small, contract.

I can't see it, but I didn't see the sense behind allowing the options on Mahinmi and Anderson to lapse either.

As to his value, who knows? It just takes one GM to like him. As much as he's fallen out of favor on ST, he is still an NBA rotation-quality player that has a year left on a very cheap contract.

[will_spurs]

Isn't tonight the deadline when unguaranteed contracts become guaranteed?

[Mel_13]

Isn't tonight the deadline when unguaranteed contracts become guaranteed?

Yes, that's why Malcolm Thomas was waived this morning.

[MaNu4Tres]

Mel, since Blair is non-guaranteed, do you not think the Spurs will view him as an expiring to open up additional cap space next year? If they know they want cap space and that Blair will want to extend, would trading him this year not make sense?

I think Spurs want to trade him sooner, rather than later, due to their intentions of not having the desire to pay him 4-5 million per year in a few years. ( I don't think they believe he's worth that; considering his size/limited ceiling and due to the questionable longevity and durability of his ligaments (sans ACLs) that have been overworking themselves.

The reason why the sooner the better, may not have much to do with cap-space IMO. But much more to do with getting the highest return in value. If they wait til next year to trade him, they will get less value back because he'd likely be a half-year rental/showcase essentially. I'm willing to bet Blair will be gone by the 2012 draft, if Spurs can find a deal they like.

[Mel_13]

I think Spurs want to trade him sooner, rather than later, due to their intentions of not having the desire to pay him 4-5 million per year in a few years. ( I don't think they believe he's worth that; considering his size/limited ceiling and due to the questionable longevity and durability of his ligaments (sans ACLs) that have been overworking themselves.

The reason why the sooner the better, may not have much to do with cap-space IMO. But much more to do with getting the highest return in value. If they wait til next year to trade him, they will get less value back because he'd likely be a half-year rental/showcase essentially. I'm willing to bet Blair will be gone by the 2013 draft, if Spurs can find a deal they like.

If you meant 2012, I agree. The Hill formula.

[MaNu4Tres]

If you meant 2012, I agree. The Hill formula.

Fixed. That's what I meant.

[yavozerb]

My masterplan:

RJ+JA+Joseph (if needed)+1st rd pick for Kaman..
Trade Blair in offseason for late 1st rd pick (maybe Boston)
Amnesty Bonner in the offseason

This would allow the core group to remain for a title and keep core young players. Also free up an additional 15 mil for the offseason..Just a thought

[Mel_13]

My masterplan:

RJ+JA+Joseph (if needed)+1st rd pick for Kaman..
Trade Blair in offseason for late 1st rd pick (maybe Boston)
Amnesty Bonner in the offseason

This would allow the core group to remain for a title and keep core young players. Also free up an additional 15 mil for the offseason..Just a thought

Zero chance that the league lets the Hornets take back RJ's contract.

[yavozerb]

Zero chance that the league lets the Hornets take back RJ's contract.

I would never say zero, but I agree the chances are not good..Just a best case scenario

[Mel_13]

I would never say zero, but I agree the chances are not good..Just a best case scenario

True, but I don't even see a reason why NOH does that deal even if the league let them.

We'd be asking them to take on two years of RJ for 21M and sweetening the deal with Joseph, Anderson, and a late first round pick. They'd be better off just buying Kaman out.

[angelbelow]

I can't see it, but I didn't see the sense behind allowing the options on Mahinmi and Anderson to lapse either.

As to his value, who knows? It just takes one GM to like him. As much as he's fallen out of favor on ST, he is still an NBA rotation-quality player that has a year left on a very cheap contract.

Its just an exaggeration.. most of the knowledgeable posters acknowledge both his pros and cons.

I agree with you about trading Blair. Doesn't make a lot of sense from the Spurs perspective. Ideally we'd want to trade Blair for another big... one with more size. Hard to see anyone trading a player with size for Blair unless that player was terrible.

Late first rounder is also risky.. it might cost more to keep the pick and we may end up with a player with less potential and doesn't pan out.

Trading Blair would likely end up being a salary dump for a 2nd round.. that would be terrible IMO.

[SpurNation]

Jefferson (once again) seems to be flaming out after another hot start. Green and Leonard poised to take over on the wing. Spurs system doesn't provide R.J. to play at his full potential being he is always going to be 4th option in the offense.

Heard in the past (not sure about now) Cleveland looking to part with Varejao.

Also read somewhere at one time this year Wizards wanting to part with Blatche.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6wjrdkn

Spurs get something of value (in an area they need help) for Jefferson instead of just amnestying. Though longer in duration, Varejao's contract is less per year.

Wizards get in Jefferson a player that could possibly produce better in a style more conducive to R.J.'s strengths plus give the Wizards much needed help in their close to the bottom of the league 3 point shooting percentage. (Wizards will be able to draft, in a draft loaded with big man talent) a talented young prospect.

Cleveland get in Blatche a player similar to Varejao but pay appx. 1.5 mil less per year plus would also be in the mix in next years draft to get another young big with potential.

The start of the RRT has begun. Yet that schedule is the most conducive (be it not by much) this year to helping get any new player acclimated to the system being it is the time they have the most time off between games this entire season. Varejao at 7.5 mil is relatively inexpensive for a quality big man in this league and definitely shores up one of it's weakest areas of the team.

[Mel_13]

Jefferson (once again) seems to be flaming out after another hot start. Green and Leonard poised to take over on the wing. Spurs system doesn't provide R.J. to play at his full potential being he is always going to be 4th option in the offense.

Heard in the past (not sure about now) Cleveland looking to part with Varejao.

Also read somewhere at one time this year Wizards wanting to part with Blatche.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6wjrdkn

Spurs get something of value (in an area they need help) for Jefferson instead of just amnestying. Though longer in duration, Varejao's contract is less per year.

Wizards get in Jefferson a player that could possibly produce better in a style more conducive to R.J.'s strengths plus give the Wizards much needed help in their close to the bottom of the league 3 point shooting percentage. (Wizards will be able to draft, in a draft loaded with big man talent) a talented young prospect.

Cleveland get in Blatche a player similar to Varejao but pay appx. 1.5 mil less per year plus would also be in the mix in next years draft to get another young big with potential.

The start of the RRT has begun. Yet that schedule is the most conducive (be it not by much) this year to helping get any new player acclimated to the system being it is the time they have the most time off between games this entire season. Varejao at 7.5 mil is relatively inexpensive for a quality big man in this league and definitely shores up one of it's weakest areas of the team.

Nice try.

I'm sure the Spurs would do RJ for Andy, but I think you know that the Cavs wouldn't. That's why you added Blatche, but the Cavs wouldn't want him either. Nor would the Spurs want an overpaid, underachiever like Blatche.

Basically, if you've come up with a trade where RJ leaves and the Spurs get a better player in return, at least one other team is getting the shaft.

We all want to make RJ disappear, moreso with the emergence of Leonard and Green. That's what the amnesty is for.

[Bruno]

My masterplan:

RJ+JA+Joseph (if needed)+1st rd pick for Kaman..
Trade Blair in offseason for late 1st rd pick (maybe Boston)
Amnesty Bonner in the offseason

This would allow the core group to remain for a title and keep core young players. Also free up an additional 15 mil for the offseason..Just a thought

Trading Bonner for an expiring and amnestying RJ is way more easier to do than the opposite. If Spurs want to open a lot of cap space, doing that way is more logical than doing your plan.

[yavozerb]

Trading Bonner for an expiring and amnestying RJ is way more easier to do than the opposite. If Spurs want to open a lot of cap space, doing that way is more logical than doing your plan.

That way may be easier to the general public, but not on the spurs..The spurs would still be on the hook for majority of RJ's contract if amnestied rather than traded..I understand your point though...

[jesterbobman]

The only way we could move RJ would be to a team with a horrendous contract that has already used the amnesty provision, otherwise both teams are bette off just using amnesty provision.
Magic Don't do a Hedo swap, Knicks wouldn't do Amare/Melo/Chandler(their only big contracts), Cavs wouldn't do Varejao, Nets would trade D-Will and Blazers wouldn't trade anyone for RJ.

Only reasonable team is an RJ-Biedrins offer, and we might be better off using amnesty. Could attempt it if it allowed some sort of Blair based swap(For Udoh OR Rush?), but even then it's not a surefire way to get better.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The only way we could move RJ would be to a team with a horrendous contract that has already used the amnesty provision, otherwise both teams are bette off just using amnesty provision.
Magic Don't do a Hedo swap, Knicks wouldn't do Amare/Melo/Chandler(their only big contracts), Cavs wouldn't do Varejao, Nets would trade D-Will and Blazers wouldn't trade anyone for RJ.

Only reasonable team is an RJ-Biedrins offer, and we might be better off using amnesty. Could attempt it if it allowed some sort of Blair based swap(For Udoh OR Rush?), but even then it's not a surefire way to get better.

While Biedrins may well be the only somewhat realistic trade option, I don't think the Spurs do it, as it would eat $9 million from this summer's cap space ( assuming RJ gets amnestied ), which the Spurs seem to value highly. Thus IMO : The only way we could move RJ would be to a team with a big expiring contract that has already used the amnesty provision, otherwise both teams are better off just using amnesty provision.

Makes it that much harder to move him and it shows why they've been shopping him for so long to no avail. He'll be amnestied.

[TDMVPDPOY]

While Biedrins may well be the only somewhat realistic trade option, I don't think the Spurs do it, as it would eat $9 million from this summer's cap space ( assuming RJ gets amnestied ), which the Spurs seem to value highly. Thus IMO : The only way we could move RJ would be to a team with a big expiring contract that has already used the amnesty provision, otherwise both teams are better off just using amnesty provision.

Makes it that much harder to move him and it shows why they've been shopping him for so long to no avail. He'll be amnestied.

the money we save

is it better to upped ford and blairs salary? or sign FA?

[MaNu4Tres]

I still want the Spurs to look into Jason Thompson.

A Blair, Anderson and rights to De Colo may be able to sway the Kings into a deal.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7bc4kxm

[jesterbobman]

I think if I'm doing that trade with the Kings, I would look at trying Blair + Anderson + 1st Round pick for Thompson + Kings 2nd round pick, with some level of protection built in.(Lottery/Top 20 or similar) I'm not sure We'll continue to hold #2 in the West, but a good record is looking more likely which would push us up to #25 or so in the draft. Trading down from 25 to 35 might be a decent deal. I think I'd rather have de Colo and 35 than 25, and the Kings would probably prefer 25 to 35 and de Colo. Also, The Spurs may well pick a guy at 25 who they could've got at 35.

[Russo21]

Stephen Jackson wants out of Milwauke. He'd be a welcome addition in my oppinion. He's getting a bit old but he's fearless and a heck of a competitor. Some people call him a nutcase but every team needs a player with fire and attitude.

The following from Yahoo/NBA

"Milwaukee Bucks wing Stephen Jackson has a reputation as a hothead, but he's also one of the best teammates in the NBA -- [/URL]Tim Duncan has even said so much. He tends to believe in the team cause for a while, even if things eventually go sour and he demands a trade. If there's a reason to stay engaged, like the possibility of the playoffs, then he'll give it his all."

I'd love to see him back in SA for another shot at the title.

[URL]http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6ow8z3h (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jackson#Personal_life_and_reputation)

[Russo21]

Ersan Ilyasova is a bit of an underrated player in my op.

8.3ppg, 7.7rpg, 0.6 bpg & spg

Him and Jackson would be a big upgrade over Fag and Fatty

[Mel_13]

Stephen Jackson wants out of Milwauke. He'd be a welcome addition in my oppinion. He's getting a bit old but he's fearless and a heck of a competitor. Some people call him a nutcase but every team needs a player with fire and attitude.

The following from Yahoo/NBA

"Milwaukee Bucks wing Stephen Jackson has a reputation as a hothead, but he's also one of the best teammates in the NBA -- [/URL]Tim Duncan has even said so much. He tends to believe in the team cause for a while, even if things eventually go sour and he demands a trade. If there's a reason to stay engaged, like the possibility of the playoffs, then he'll give it his all."

I'd love to see him back in SA for another shot at the title.

[URL]http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6ow8z3h (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Jackson#Personal_life_and_reputation)

:rollin

Bucks aren't taking RJ back.

Nobody is taking RJ.

RJ will be a Spur until they use the amnesty on him.

[CGD]

:rollin

Bucks aren't taking RJ back.

Nobody is taking RJ.

RJ will be a Spur until they use the amnesty on him.

The very fact that everybody thinks that Spurs will amnesty RJ has further brought down any hopes of us trading him. The whole, "why trade for something I can get at reduced price this summer" thing.

What concerns me more is that if the Spurs strike out this summer with respect to any intended FA signings I can see them keeping RJ. Sure he comes off the cap, but Holt still has to pay him a sizable portion of his contract. And if the team is under or at the cap anyway, might as well have him on the roster...

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The very fact that everybody thinks that Spurs will amnesty RJ has further brought down any hopes of us trading him. The whole, "why trade for something I can get at reduced price this summer" thing.

What concerns me more is that if the Spurs strike out this summer with respect to any intended FA signings I can see them keeping RJ. Sure he comes off the cap, but Holt still has to pay him a sizable portion of his contract. And if the team is under or at the cap anyway, might as well have him on the roster...

They couldn't know they'd strike out unless they amnesty him first because otherwise they wouldn't have the money to offer to any FA.

[mountainballer]

for whatever reason (it's not an injury), Anthony Randolph has completely lost hit minutes and got his 8th DNP in February. well one reason is, that the Wolves are currently overloaded in the front court. (considering Beasely and Willimas play some PF as well)

what they need is shooting from the perimeter. so Neal should be a somehow attractive option for them. (Anderson isn't, as his resume is worse than Ellington's). Wolves still hope for a PO birth. so, if Spurs wanted to pull such a trade, this would be the moment IMO. the return of Manu makes Neal expendable and his two or three good games lately should help to make a team at least listen.

[yavozerb]

Not sure why people have been wanting Randolph over the years..Guy has been on a number of teams where he should have developed and still nothing. Time to let that ship sail, BUST...

[FirebatMIV]

Chris Andersen is apparently on the block in Denver (http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-nuggets/2012/2/17/2807033/chris-andersen-trade-rumors-denver-nuggets-nba-2012). They have a glut of frontcourt players when Nene and Mozgov comes back. They just signed Koufos to an extension and they have a younger version of Birdman in Faried.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=73k847b

Just sayin

[Mal]

And Denver is about to trade for 10 mil backup for a player they recently extend ?

[FirebatMIV]

And Denver is about to trade for 10 mil backup for a player they recently extend ?

You mean the guy that's out for a month? They have Corey Brewer, Gallinari, and Affalo on the wings, but they're much more thin on the wings than they are on the frontline.

[Mal]

You mean the guy that's out for a month? They have Corey Brewer, Gallinari, and Affalo on the wings, but they're much more thin on the wings than they are on the frontline.

They wont trade, and pay 10 mil to Dick Jefferson, for next 2 and half year.. And Galo will be back. Denver isnt going anywhere this year, so the injury doesnt mean anything. They will draft backup SF, or sign swingmen from FA, for half that Jefferson is earning.

Besides, why would Spurs trade for Birdmen ? His 4 mil, could screw whole FA plan for Spurs. If there is one.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

You mean the guy that's out for a month? They have Corey Brewer, Gallinari, and Affalo on the wings, but they're much more thin on the wings than they are on the frontline.
Have to remeber that the Nuggets are waiting for Wilson Chandlers return.

[FirebatMIV]

And Denver is about to trade for 10 mil backup for a player they recently extend ?


Have to remeber that the Nuggets are waiting for Wilson Chandlers return.

True forgot about him.

[tuncaboylu]

We can offer McDyess expiring + James Anderson to Denver in exchange of Chris Andersen. Andersen is a high energy guy who can make some impact in play-offs with his defense.

[dbestpro]

Dice is retired. Nothing to trade.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Howard + Q. Richardson's contract for Ginobili + Blair + RJ should work, and that's probably the best Orlando will get.

Not even close. They're not taking RJ's contract. They want young talent, cap relief and high picks, we've none of these.

[BackHome]

:bangTrade Cory Joseph He Sucks..........

[UnWantedTheory]

Howard + Q. Richardson's contract for Ginobili + Blair + RJ should work, and that's probably the best Orlando will get.



:lmao

[Bruno]

Between the trade deadline some amount of salary Spurs could absorb with the most likely package they will offer:

Blair + Anderson will allow Spurs to take back up to $3,161,900 in salary.
Blair + Anderson + Joseph will allow Spurs to take back up to $4,340,275 in salary.
Bonner + Anderson will allow Spurs to take back up to $6,073,150 in salary.
Bonner + Anderson + Joseph will allow Spurs to take back up $7,252,525 to in salary.

Picks and cash could be include but it weights $0 to match salaries. Spurs can to absorb players with min contracts and a player paid less $954,389 through a little trade exception they have.

Players salaries can be found here:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp

All the above should help posters to know what Spurs should trade to get a certain player they like.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Between the trade deadline some amount of salary Spurs could absorb with the most likely package they will offer:

Blair + Anderson will allow Spurs to take back up to $3,161,900 in salary.
Blair + Anderson + Joseph will allow Spurs to take back up to $4,340,275 in salary.
Bonner + Anderson will allow Spurs to take back up to $6,073,150 in salary.
Bonner + Anderson + Joseph will allow Spurs to take back up $7,252,525 to in salary.

Picks and cash could be include but it weights $0 to match salaries. Spurs can to absorb players with min contracts and a player paid less $954,389 through a little trade exception they have.

Players salaries can be found here:
http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp

All the above should help posters to know what Spurs should trade to get a certain player they like.

whatever money we save, will be offset by whatever Neal demands for his next contract anyway...theres really not much saving besides allocating those salaries to neal new contract where i think some time is going to chuck the MLE at him

[Bruno]

whatever money we save, will be offset by whatever Neal demands for his next contract anyway...theres really not much saving besides allocating those salaries to neal new contract where i think some time is going to chuck the MLE at him

WTF are you talking about?

My post has nothing to do with Spurs doing some salary saving moves. It is just a guide to do trades that respects the CBA rule of 125%+100K.

[CGD]

Read on a rumor site that the mavs were thinking abt dumping Rodrigue to avoid having to pay the last 3 years of his deal. The fact that spurs mavs are unlikely bed fellows aside, a JA for Rodrigue swap works. Does he have any upside left post foot surgery?

[Mal]

WTF are you talking about?

My post has nothing to do with Spurs doing some salary saving moves. It is just a guide to do trades that respects the CBA rule of 125%+100K.

Bonner isnt going to be traded. If Spurs are going to absorb salary, they will make trade with Dice`s contract.

[CGD]

Bonner isnt going to be traded. If Spurs are going to absorb salary, they will make trade with Dice`s contract.

There seems to be confusion on using Dice's contract despite his retirement. Could someone confirm for me whether the Spurs may or use his "expiring contract" in a trade?

If so that's kind of a big deal. Spurs could offer about 4m (per shamsports) in expiring contracts between Dice and Anderson alone, no?

[Mel_13]

There seems to be confusion on using Dice's contract despite his retirement. Could someone confirm for me whether the Spurs may or use his "expiring contract" in a trade?

If so that's kind of a big deal. Spurs could offer about 4m (per shamsports) in expiring contracts between Dice and Anderson alone, no?

The time to use Dice's contract in a trade has long passed. He was waived back in December.

"With a deadline for fully guaranteeing McDyess’ $5.22 million contract approaching at the end of the business day, the Spurs waived the 6-foot-9 forward from Alabama."

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/12/19/spurs-notebook-mcdyess-sticks-to-retirement-decision/

[Bruno]

Bonner isnt going to be traded. If Spurs are going to absorb salary, they will make trade with Dice`s contract.

Nope, you can't trade the contract of a waived player. It's not allowed by the CBA.

But I agree that Bonner likely won't be traded. Blair is way more on the hot seat than Bonner.

[elemento]

The time to trade Dice's contract has gone a long time ago.

[Bruno]

Read on a rumor site that the mavs were thinking abt dumping Rodrigue to avoid having to pay the last 3 years of his deal. The fact that spurs mavs are unlikely bed fellows aside, a JA for Rodrigue swap works. Does he have any upside left post foot surgery?

Beaubois has had some big games this year and seems to have recover well from his injury. The reason why he is in the doghouse is because Carlisle doesn't like the way he plays the point. Like George Hill, Beaubois is more a undersized SG than a true PG.

[sasffl]

RJ+JA+Blair for Stephen Jackson+Larry Sanders+Jon Brockman. SJ is a trouble for Bucks. Sanders is a good shot blocker. Brockman is a under-sized tough player. But I doubt Bucks aren't interested in Rj and JA.

[CGD]

Beaubois has had some big games this year and seems to have recover well from his injury. The reason why he is in the doghouse is because Carlisle doesn't like the way he plays the point. Like George Hill, Beaubois is more a undersized SG than a true PG.

That's unfortunate. I thought he had more PG potential than Hill. I suppose though that the spurs are not in a bad position at backup pg for the next 2 years provided Ford can stay healthy. I think he showed enough this season in limited play where it would make sense to sign him again this summer (at least for enough time to see if Joseph will pan out).

With respect to trades. The more I think about it, JA has more value to this team as an expiring contract. I just don't see a young (and available) talent worth taking on more contract years for. Maybe Randolph. I'd rather use that 1.5m toward overpaying a RFA like Brook Lopez this summer.

[DPG21920]

Does anyone think packaging RJ with 2 first rounders (this years and a future) would entice a team to take him? If so would it be worth it?

[DPG21920]

So something like RJ+fillers+2 First Round Picks for Jamison?

[yavozerb]

So something like RJ+fillers+2 First Round Picks for Jamison?

So the cavs get a terrible contract for 2 seasons and 2 picks somewhere between 25-30 for the next 2 seasons...What a bargain for the cavs, :rolleyes..If anyone is going get the worst side of an RJ trade you better believe its gonna be the spurs.

[DPG21920]

Why does the pick have to be for when the spurs still have Tim/TP/Manu? Why not 3 years from now? Either way, it was a hypothetical, no need for a roll eyes girl. You also failed to address the intent of the question. Is giving up 2 first rounders worth it to dump RJ or is that likely not enough incentive?

Also, no matter how you slice it 2 first rounders for Jamison has to be a pretty high return in a bubble, right?

[yavozerb]

Why does the pick have to be for when the spurs still have Tim/TP/Manu? Why not 3 years from now? Either way, it was a hypothetical, no need for a roll eyes girl. You also failed to address the intent of the question. Is giving up 2 first rounders worth it to dump RJ or is that likely not enough incentive?

Also, no matter how you slice it 2 first rounders for Jamison has to be a pretty high return in a bubble, right?

Would you rather have 2 very late 1st rd picks or would you want 10 mil in extra cap room for the next 2 seasons? Me personally, I will gladly take the cap room

[DPG21920]

Would you rather have 2 very late 1st rd picks or would you want 10 mil in extra cap room for the next 2 seasons? Me personally, I will gladly take the cap room

You are getting caught up in the Jamison example and not focusing on the question. Forget a guy like Jamison. Say there's a guy with a similar contract to RJ (maybe a little younger or one less year or something). In a bubble, is giving up two firsts to get rid of RJ too much? Not enough?

Also you keep saying "in the 25-30 range". While a pick this year may be there a future pick could very well be much better when Tim is gone and Manu (say 2 years from now).

[Bruno]

The amnesty rule makes a RJ trade unlikely.

The whole basis of a trade is a symmetry concept. You give up something to get something and in almost every trade, teams give up about equal value.

The amnesty rule create an asymmetrical situation with RJ. RJ's contract isn't that bad for Spurs because they can make it away of the salary cap and luxury tax with the amnesty. RJ's contract is very bad for other teams because they can't amnesty him and he will badly hit their salary cap and luxury tax situation.

The result of all this is that other teams will ask a lot to take RJ's contract and Spurs won't be fine with it because they can just amnesty him.

[Mal]

Nope, you can't trade the contract of a waived player. It's not allowed by the CBA.

But I agree that Bonner likely won't be traded. Blair is way more on the hot seat than Bonner.

Ok, didnt know. I am not a expert in trade rules. Nevertheless Bonner is going to wear Spurs` uniform in May.

[Darkwaters]

Unless it's an amazing deal, Jefferson isn't getting traded. He'll be amnestied this offseason. The numbers don't really support anything else.

[dbestpro]

Would you do Walton and Artest for Jefferson and Anderson?
LA is at the bottom of 3pt shooting (the one thing RJ an do) and Artest can't play SF anymore. He can play PF, but LA is loaded at this position. The only reason I throw Walton in is to make the deal work.

[Mel_13]

Would you do Walton and Artest for Jefferson and Anderson?
LA is at the bottom of 3pt shooting (the one thing RJ an do) and Artest can't play SF anymore. He can play PF, but LA is loaded at this position. The only reason I throw Walton in is to make the deal work.

See Bruno's post 3 posts above yours. Neither team does that trade.

[lmbebo]

JA for K. Seraphin (Washington, french big man).

Works on Paper. Not sure why Washington does it. But can't hurt?

[Spursfanfromafar]

The amnesty rule makes a RJ trade unlikely.

The whole basis of a trade is a symmetry concept. You give up something to get something and in almost every trade, teams give up about equal value.

The amnesty rule create an asymmetrical situation with RJ. RJ's contract isn't that bad for Spurs because they can make it away of the salary cap and luxury tax with the amnesty. RJ's contract is very bad for other teams because they can't amnesty him and he will badly hit their salary cap and luxury tax situation.

The result of all this is that other teams will ask a lot to take RJ's contract and Spurs won't be fine with it because they can just amnesty him.

The only other plausible scenario is that the team the Spurs are dealing with have *already* used the amnesty clause on someone else and still have a bad contract which they wouldn't mind swapping. And if the Spurs feel that whoever they trade RJ for is perhaps going to contribute to the Spurs becoming a contender this year and is a redeemable project that can clog the Spurs' cap space beyond the end of this season.

I see only one player who fits that criteria and that is Andris Biedrins, with many warts and all. He is having a poor season with the Warriors, who seem to be trying to trade him now (or else they wouldn't play him as a starter over Ekpe Udoh). The Warriors have also already used up the amnesty clause on Charlie Bell. If they think they have value for RJ as a Three in a system centered around Stephen Curry, with Dorell Wright coming from the bench ..there is a possibility of a RJ-Biedrins swap.

The Spurs on the other hand, will be taking a huge risk with a center who is mortally fearful of contact - to avoid going to the FT line where he is abysmal - and has generally regressed to be a shell of what his potential could be, mostly because of some really bad coaching by Don Nelson.

ESPN Trade machine - http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5tb9y5l

[Mel_13]

The only other plausible scenario is that the team the Spurs are dealing with have *already* used the amnesty clause on someone else and still have a bad contract which they wouldn't mind swapping. And if the Spurs feel that whoever they trade RJ for is perhaps going to contribute to the Spurs becoming a contender this year and is a redeemable project that can clog the Spurs' cap space beyond the end of this season.

I see only one player who fits that criteria and that is Andris Biedrins, with many warts and all. He is having a poor season with the Warriors, who seem to be trying to trade him now (or else they wouldn't play him as a starter over Ekpe Udoh). The Warriors have also already used up the amnesty clause on Charlie Bell. If they think they have value for RJ as a Three in a system centered around Stephen Curry, with Dorell Wright coming from the bench ..there is a possibility of a RJ-Biedrins swap.

The Spurs on the other hand, will be taking a huge risk with a center who is mortally fearful of contact - to avoid going to the FT line where he is abysmal - and has generally regressed to be a shell of what his potential could be, mostly because of some really bad coaching by Don Nelson.

ESPN Trade machine - http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5tb9y5l

Yeah.

In a world with no amnesty, or one where both teams had already used it, an RJ for Biedrins trade would make perfect sense. My incredibly overpaid disappointment for your equally overpaid disappointment and we'll see if a change of scenario makes a difference. For the reasons you cite, however, it won't happen while the Spurs retain the ability to amnesty RJ.

RJ won't be traded this season.

[yavozerb]

The only other plausible scenario is that the team the Spurs are dealing with have *already* used the amnesty clause on someone else and still have a bad contract which they wouldn't mind swapping. And if the Spurs feel that whoever they trade RJ for is perhaps going to contribute to the Spurs becoming a contender this year and is a redeemable project that can clog the Spurs' cap space beyond the end of this season.

I see only one player who fits that criteria and that is Andris Biedrins, with many warts and all. He is having a poor season with the Warriors, who seem to be trying to trade him now (or else they wouldn't play him as a starter over Ekpe Udoh). The Warriors have also already used up the amnesty clause on Charlie Bell. If they think they have value for RJ as a Three in a system centered around Stephen Curry, with Dorell Wright coming from the bench ..there is a possibility of a RJ-Biedrins swap.

The Spurs on the other hand, will be taking a huge risk with a center who is mortally fearful of contact - to avoid going to the FT line where he is abysmal - and has generally regressed to be a shell of what his potential could be, mostly because of some really bad coaching by Don Nelson.

ESPN Trade machine - http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5tb9y5l

With Lorbek possible in the picture no way you take Biedrins contract. Sign Lorbek to a reasonable contract and then amnesty RJ, case closed. Agree that RJ will remain with the spurs this season.

[Spursfanfromafar]

With Lorbek possible in the picture no way you take Biedrins contract. Sign Lorbek to a reasonable contract and then amnesty RJ, case closed. Agree that RJ will remain with the spurs this season.

I basically agree. I was only to trying to say, lets hedge on the idea that the Spurs want to contend this year and that the Tim Duncan championship window is narrowing... if so, what remains.

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7l62k4w

Blair just had a good game. Get rid of him while he has some value. Let's hope RJ goes off for 50 next game and he gets some value to.

Camby/Splitter
Duncan/ Bonner
Batum/Leonard
Manu
Parker

Solid frontcourt rotation. Camby is still getting 10 rebounds and 2 blocks per game and Batum is going for 14 points 1 steal 1 block while shooting 43% from 3 (48% in his last 5 games) Go get these two fuckas.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

^ On what planet do Blazers take on RJ's contract and why the fuck would they?

[DPG21920]

I guess I'm severely overrating the value of first round picks.

[Mel_13]

I guess I'm severely overrating the value of first round picks.

If you think someone is willing to take on RJ's contract in order to get a couple of future San Antonio first rounders, then yes you are.

Bruno's post on the effect a potential amnesty has on the symmetry of potential trades is really on point.

[elemento]

Teams usually can a buy a late 1st round pick for 3M. Considering that our picks are going to be late ones, do you guys really think a team would be willing to take his 21m in remaining salary to take 2 late 1st round picks ?

I've said it many times. They only way to get rid of Jefferson is getting a bad contract back. Something like Jefferson for Charlie V from the Pistons or Josh Childress from the Suns.

[Libri]

Pacers Willing To Take On More Salary Before Trade Deadline

“We've got $15 million under the cap and I'm not afraid to make another move now to strengthen our bench or maybe even (add) one or two guys,” president of basketball operations Larry Bird said. “We're still out there looking and whatever we can do to make this team better, we're going to do.

"I'm going continue to do whatever I can to make this team better,” Bird said. “If I see a player out there I think can make us better, I'm going to go ahead and make the move. It could be a trade, but it's probably going to be picking up somebody off another team just so they can get some money off (the salary cap). We've got a lot of calls in, talked to a lot of people and we're going to try to continue to strengthen this team."

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219187/Bird_Pacers_Willing_To_Take_On_More_Salary_Before_ Trade_Deadline

[yavozerb]

Pacers Willing To Take On More Salary Before Trade Deadline

“We've got $15 million under the cap and I'm not afraid to make another move now to strengthen our bench or maybe even (add) one or two guys,” president of basketball operations Larry Bird said. “We're still out there looking and whatever we can do to make this team better, we're going to do.

"I'm going continue to do whatever I can to make this team better,” Bird said. “If I see a player out there I think can make us better, I'm going to go ahead and make the move. It could be a trade, but it's probably going to be picking up somebody off another team just so they can get some money off (the salary cap). We've got a lot of calls in, talked to a lot of people and we're going to try to continue to strengthen this team."

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219187/Bird_Pacers_Willing_To_Take_On_More_Salary_Before_ Trade_Deadline

This would be the ideal team to dump JA..Would this move free up any extra cash to spend on possible buyouts?

[MaNu4Tres]

This would be the ideal team to dump JA..Would this move free up any extra cash to spend on possible buyouts?

With Spurs being well over the cap, it would not. It would only free up relevant cap space next off-season.

[Mel_13]

This would be the ideal team to dump JA..Would this move free up any extra cash to spend on possible buyouts?

It won't change the maximum amount that they are allowed to offer to a buyout candidate, but it could change the amount that they are willing to offer.

[Spurtacus]

James Anderson & Cory Joseph for Anthony Randolph

[lmbebo]

Randolph has the tools but has never put it together.

Why would he suddenly help in SA? He's still a project. Projects don't get playing time in SA

[CGD]

Does anyone know when the $800K trade exception we got from Indiana in the Hill trade will expire?

[Mel_13]

Does anyone know when the $800K trade exception we got from Indiana in the Hill trade will expire?

One year from the date of trade (6/23/11).

[CGD]

One year from the date of trade (6/23/11).

Awesome, thx

[lmbebo]

What about Orton for JA? Both make close to the same. Both want to switch to a new team

[Mal]

What about Orton for JA? Both make close to the same. Both want to switch to a new team

Kyle Orton ? He sucks. 7ft chair could be more useful for Spurs.

[lmbebo]

kyle plays for the chiefs.

Daniel is a raw big man who came out to early. But its not like we are gonna get a lot in return for JA. I think at best we get a 2nd round pick, top 55 protected for him.

So if we can dump him for a big man project, I'm ok with that.

[Bruno]

IMO, Spurs are more interested to save money by salary dumping JA than trading him for another marginal prospect. If Spurs are intrigued by Daniel Orton, they can wait this summer when he will be an UFA.

[Mal]

kyle plays for the chiefs.

Daniel is a raw big man who came out to early. But its not like we are gonna get a lot in return for JA. I think at best we get a 2nd round pick, top 55 protected for him.

So if we can dump him for a big man project, I'm ok with that.

Yes, of course Daniel Orton. Though of Daniel Orton from Kentucky U, and wrote Kyle instead.


James Anderson is worth more than Daniel Orton, 2nd round pick, especially protected. Spurs need big men , who can help them right here , right now. Prospects, raw prospect arent needed at all.

Trade JA to Bobcats, Washington, Hornets and swap 2nd round picks.

[lmbebo]

Know we need another big who can play, but JA isn't going to bring much in return if anything.

[antarescrane]

This might seem kind of obvious, but is there any chance that we might be able to get Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap without breaking up the big three? Not that I think this is possible. But hey, the Jazz have some really young bigs, and maybe they would consider something like this. But probably not.

[SpurNation]

I don't know...maybe a three way involving New Orleans, Charlotte and San Antonio?

Okafor to Spurs. Tyrus Thomas to Hornets. Jefferson and Anderson to Bobcats.

Maybe Spurs get lucky and the Cats release Diaw who then signs with Spurs.

A limited Spurs front court now becomes options of Duncan, Splitter, Okafor, Diaw, Bonner and Blair.

[mountainballer]

kyle plays for the chiefs.

Daniel is a raw big man who came out to early. But its not like we are gonna get a lot in return for JA. I think at best we get a 2nd round pick, top 55 protected for him.

So if we can dump him for a big man project, I'm ok with that.

remember all the drama around Orton in Kentucky?
can't wait for Orton's father explaining Pop in public how to coach a basketball team.

[Darkwaters]

New Jersey is saying that if they can't get Dwight Howard they'll look to discard assets that don't tie into their future needs.

What about Shelden Williams for James Anderson plus enough cash to pay his salary?

It saves the Nets a bit of money and lets them have a look at a young swingman as well.

[ace3g]

24writer

Coach Pop on trade deadline March 15: "We kind of just fall asleep during the trade deadline," said Pop, "we get our pillows out."

One key point though to Pop's discussion on the trade deadline: "The trade will get made if it makes sense." #Spurs

[Darkwaters]

Just because Pop doesn't come out and say "________ is on the block and will be traded before the deadline" doesn't mean that he isn't thinking and planning it.

If people don't think that James Anderson is absolutely hanging by a thread and would get axed just to say a few bucks, they're fooling themselves.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Shelden Williams or go all in for Ersan Ilyasova.

[Darkwaters]

Shelden Williams or go all in for Ersan Ilyasova.

I'd much prefer Ilyasova.

[TDMVPDPOY]

someone needs to tell me about d12 situation

the magic are taking the risk holding onto him till FA...is there any benefit for the magic to do this? they can still offer more then other teams right?

i dunno why he wouldnt come here to play with a solid core that we have atm....

[roycrikside]

How about this? No, hell no or fuck no?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=76n2ybx

[DPG21920]

Spurs yes, bucks no

[TDMVPDPOY]

How about this? No, hell no or fuck no?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=76n2ybx

remove jax from the trade....

llyasova is going to get paid big time the way his playing this season in a contract year...i would love to have him on this team, but to me he looks like another KVH

[yavozerb]

remove jax from the trade....

llyasova is going to get paid big time the way his playing this season in a contract year...i would love to have him on this team, but to me he looks like another KVH

I would gladly take a young KVH...By the way, I think Illysova is notch under KVH when it comes to offense but is a better rebounder.

[Russo21]

Josh Smith still wants out of Atlanta.

But i don't see how we can get him. They already have a way overpriced SF on the roster, marvin williams at 7.5 million so they wouldnt want RJ, and we arent getting rid of tim or tony, every other contract we have are only small ones so there's not much we can do.... except...

Josh Smith for Manu straight up would work.... ?? And no i don't want to get rid of Manu.

Anyone here work out a way to realistically get Josh Smith without giving up one of the big 3? He'd certaintly give us that athletic interior defender to help with the millsaps, aldridge's griffens etc. of the league that kill us night in night out.

He wants out, how can we get him

[Anonymous Cowherd]

we can't.

[Mal]

I would gladly take a young KVH...By the way, I think Illysova is notch under KVH when it comes to offense but is a better rebounder.

No way Bucks let him go.

[Russo21]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7n9s627

[jesterbobman]

I would try and get involved as a 3rd team in a deal like this

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6ox2e5v

Pacers get Okafor, James Anderson
Hornets get Blair, Cory Joseph
Spurs get Gustavo Ayon, AJ Price.

a swap for (potentially )better fitting role players. To me, makes a bit of sense for Indiana(Okafor's contract is a little rich, depends on long term plans), NO saves a ton of money on the contract for a sale, though I'd understand if neither side was interested.

[Mal]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7785mr6


better one

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Indiana would ask for a couple of 1st round picks too at the very least.

[SamoanTD]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7nzco9l

[DPG21920]

I guess I'm severely overrating the value of first round picks.

It appears the spurs first rounder did have value :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

i wonder what would it take to get DMC here?