General Trades Discussion

[Chinook]

saw a random trade idea on twitter: Blair for Jason Collins

Isn't he starting for the Celtics right now? If so, that seems like a weird player to trade away for Blair. Boston isn't really in a position to be sizing down right now.

[TD 21]

Well then, TD 21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781) would you say that Jack and Neal for Ridnour and Williams is a good-looking deal for Minnesota? If the Spurs feel confident that someone like Gelabale can step in as the back up three or that Williams can indeed play some minutes there, that trade should give the Wolves what they want. I also think the Adelman is the type of coach that Jack can respect.

I'd still hope they move Bonner, though.

I wouldn't. Even though Williams alone may only fetch a player the caliber of Neal, Williams has starter potential, while Neal doesn't. And Jackson, despite being in a contract year, probably wouldn't be engaged and is looking perilously close to done either way.

I'm not going to pretend to have kept up with Gelabale in recent years, but I doubt the Spurs would feel confident in him stepping right in to their rotation, nor having to incorporate three players total into it on the fly. I also don't think they'd have any interest in Ridnour, who's an atrocious defender and not enough of a scoring threat to allow Ginobili to start.

Beyond the obvious, the great thing about a Williams for Neal and Bonner (and maybe a 1st or a 1st for a 2nd) swap is, despite having the potential to upgrade the team, it wouldn't change the dynamic of it. Mills, who's similar to Neal, would become a rotation player and Williams would become the fourth big/2nd stretch four.

[Chinook]

I wouldn't. Even though Williams alone may only fetch a player the caliber of Neal, Williams has starter potential, while Neal doesn't. And Jackson, despite being in a contract year, probably wouldn't be engaged and is looking perilously close to done either way.

I'm not going to pretend to have kept up with Gelabale in recent years, but I doubt the Spurs would feel confident in him stepping right in to their rotation, nor having to incorporate three players total into it on the fly. I also don't think they'd have any interest in Ridnour, who's an atrocious defender and not enough of a scoring threat to allow Ginobili to start.

Beyond the obvious, the great thing about a Williams for Neal and Bonner (and maybe a 1st or a 1st for a 2nd) swap is, despite having the potential to upgrade the team, it wouldn't change the dynamic of it. Mills, who's similar to Neal, would become a rotation player and Williams would become the fourth big/2nd stretch four.

That's always the risk with trades when you're a contending team. Even with all of the Spurs' warts, they're still a top team. It can get much worse.

Jack deserves the benefit of the doubt that he'll bounce back, but if he can't cut it for the Spurs, though, they're best served to move him. Getting the backup point situation and potentially getting a good prospect is a better use of cap space, in my opinion, than hoping to land a marquee free agent. Ridnour has flaws, but he seems able to run an offense, which is something we can't really say about Neal, De Colo or Mills. If he's playing bad defense, well, he seems right on par with the other potential back ups.

I don't want to see the Spurs shaken up unless they really show they can't hang with elite teams and that a trade can help them get there. So I definitely agree with you that Neal and Bonner for Williams is ideal. But with Jack out more time, the need for reliable wing depth is pronounced right now.

[Paranoid Pop]

Well then, TD 21 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781) would you say that Jack and Neal for Ridnour and Williams is a good-looking deal for Minnesota? If the Spurs feel confident that someone like Gelabale can step in as the back up three or that Williams can indeed play some minutes there, that trade should give the Wolves what they want. I also think the Adelman is the type of coach that Jack can respect.

I'd still hope they move Bonner, though.

I think if you replace Ridnour by Roy, it's more likely. Everyone knows he's gonna retire at this point and if we're gonna take back a bad contract, 5M/2yrs is pretty acceptable. Boris can play some 3 anyway and we have already plenty of option at backup PG.

Also I changed my mind on Hawes, we don't need another unathletic/soft big even tho I like him. We need a Williams, Ayon, Ilyasova...

Also I would still consider trading Splitter, I know it sounds outrageous to some of you but to play next to Tim, defense and rebounding are more important than being able to finish at the rim... Splitter gets what, 6 or 7 shots a night with the new rotation... Imo that's wasted ressources right there.

Something like : http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bfvvqq7

Of course the ideal solution woud be to add someone without losing one of Tiago and Boris but I'd consider something like this...

[Chinook]

I think if you replace Ridnour by Roy, it's more likely. Everyone knows he's gonna retire at this point and if we're gonna take back a bad contract, 5M/2yrs is pretty acceptable. Boris can play some 3 anyway and we have already plenty of option at backup PG.

Also I changed my mind on Hawes, we don't need another unathletic/soft big even tho I like him. We need a Williams, Ayon, Ilyasova...

Also I would still consider trading Splitter, I know it sounds outrageous to some of you but to play next to Tim, defense and rebounding are more important than being able to finish at the rim... Splitter gets what, 6 or 7 shots a night with the new rotation... Imo that's wasted ressources right there.

Something like : http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bfvvqq7

Of course the ideal solution woud be to add someone without losing one of Tiago and Boris but I'd consider something like this...

Roy is essentially an expiring contract, as next year is non-guaranteed. If it's about saving money, I think the Wolves will push for Barea, the Spurs will push for Roy, and they'll settle on Ridnour.

I think Splitter is doing fine in his new role. He gets a lot of touches from Ginobili and De Colo. Their slumps have hurt Splitter's numbers a bit. Once the Spurs figure out the guard rotation, Splitter's numbers will be better.

To me, I think it's more important to get another big that can play with both Duncan and Splitter. Duncan's shot give Splitter room to work, but the reverse is not true. A third big needs to have a shot so that he can stay out of Splitter's way but still be a threat to score.

As for your trade: I like Okafor as a defensive prospect, and I've sure he'd be great next to Duncan if he has any mobility left. Good news is that his trade value is down, because he has been having a down year, and the Wizards are probably really receptive to getting out of his contract. But the main reason why he's expendable now is because Seraphin has been playing really well. I don't think it makes sense to deal both of them. Tiago is better than Kevin right now, but he's also a free agent, and one who probably will not want to stay in that situation if he can help it. Maybe switching Bonner with Splitter and Seraphin with Singleton is a better option. If Splitter's allowed to return to the bench, then it may help balance the lineups out more.

In any event, I think Washington is definitely going to be a seller again.

[Richie]

If we do a trade which sacrifices our cap space this summer, we need to do a blockbuster to make it worth our while disrupting the team chemistry of a winning team, not for a draft bust like Williams.

Lakers are losing. Pau is the odd man out. We have everything the Lakers need to run D'Antonis system, considering we've basically been a run and gun 3's team the last few years

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aozspuc

Pau for Jackson, Bonner, Neal, Mills

The Lakers get 4 three point threats, including the all important stretch 4 in Bonner which Howard needs to operate in the paint. Mills and Neal give them better back up point guards that Steve Blake, and Jackson is a legit defender and 3 point threat to allow World Peace to rest.

Unless someone decided to give up a superstar for Gasol, I don't think they could get a better set of role players than they could get from us to fit D'Antonis system.

Spurs depth chart would read

Parker/De Colo
Green/Manu
Leonard/??
Pau/Diaw
Duncan/Splitter

[LittleCriminal]

Trade Idea.

Spurs send Blair and Bonner to The Pelicans for R.Lopez....

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=abhca7g (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=abhca7g)

Sprinkle Neal,Joesph,DeColo,Mills and or Draft Picks as a sweetener If the Spurs had to add some sugar into the mix.
Works money wise.

[Russo21]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d2udvfr

Hawes has 6 inches on Blair, better defense, better rebounding and a better shot.
Richardson still gives you 11 points 5 rebounds and 1.5 steals. A perfect backup for young Leonard.

Philli get two expiring contracts that could help massively building around their young talented team.

[Richie]

Hawes is only 24 and a quality player, why would the Sixers give him away for basically nothing? They have cap space this summer anyway with the Bynum expiring if they don't want to give him a big contact

[Paranoid Pop]

Roy is essentially an expiring contract, as next year is non-guaranteed. If it's about saving money, I think the Wolves will push for Barea, the Spurs will push for Roy, and they'll settle on Ridnour. I think Splitter is doing fine in his new role. He gets a lot of touches from Ginobili and De Colo. Their slumps have hurt Splitter's numbers a bit. Once the Spurs figure out the guard rotation, Splitter's numbers will be better. To me, I think it's more important to get another big that can play with both Duncan and Splitter. Duncan's shot give Splitter room to work, but the reverse is not true. A third big needs to have a shot so that he can stay out of Splitter's way but still be a threat to score. As for your trade: I like Okafor as a defensive prospect, and I've sure he'd be great next to Duncan if he has any mobility left. Good news is that his trade value is down, because he has been having a down year, and the Wizards are probably really receptive to getting out of his contract. But the main reason why he's expendable now is because Seraphin has been playing really well. I don't think it makes sense to deal both of them. Tiago is better than Kevin right now, but he's also a free agent, and one who probably will not want to stay in that situation if he can help it. Maybe switching Bonner with Splitter and Seraphin with Singleton is a better option. If Splitter's allowed to return to the bench, then it may help balance the lineups out more. In any event, I think Washington is definitely going to be a seller again. Singleton might be a good idea actually but I believe his value is still pretty high even tho he's getting DNPCDs right now but that might change, his value may go down, thus it could make sense for them to deal him right now. Seems like there an insider article on that very subject but I have yet to find the full article...

[Chinook]

Singleton might be a good idea actually but I believe his value is still pretty high even tho he's getting DNPCDs right now but that might change, his value may go down, thus it could make sense for them to deal him right now. Seems like there an insider article on that very subject but I have yet to find the full article...

Singleton has been better than Vesely from what I've seen. If there were a better way to make the salaries work, he would be a better piece for the Wizards to include than Singleton. But the value of saving on Okafor's contract, of getting a player like Neal, and maybe of another first-rounder may be enough for them to get pull the trigger.

[Chinook]

If we do a trade which sacrifices our cap space this summer, we need to do a blockbuster to make it worth our while disrupting the team chemistry of a winning team, not for a draft bust like Williams.

Lakers are losing. Pau is the odd man out. We have everything the Lakers need to run D'Antonis system, considering we've basically been a run and gun 3's team the last few years

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aozspuc

Pau for Jackson, Bonner, Neal, Mills

The Lakers get 4 three point threats, including the all important stretch 4 in Bonner which Howard needs to operate in the paint. Mills and Neal give them better back up point guards that Steve Blake, and Jackson is a legit defender and 3 point threat to allow World Peace to rest.

Unless someone decided to give up a superstar for Gasol, I don't think they could get a better set of role players than they could get from us to fit D'Antonis system.

Spurs depth chart would read

Parker/De Colo
Green/Manu
Leonard/??
Pau/Diaw
Duncan/Splitter

I wouldn't do that deal, even if the Lakers wanted to. The Spurs are not going into the tax this year, according to Pop, and this deal drags them almost to the apron when you factor in the minimum contracts needed to meet roster requirements. It also places a huge salary burden on the Spurs next season, which would hurt their quest to get a legitimate back up to Leonard. Also, the Spurs' depth would be gone, and there'd be little money to replace it.

Getting a player like Williams now is really a good use of cap space. Worst comes to worst, they can move him in June or July for nothing and still have the space for free agents. I don't think he's been a bust at all, though. He's had some really good games, and Pop seems to think he would've been a good fit for the system. Also, the Spurs would still have the full MLE and some S&T options under that deal, which isn't true after the proposed Gasol trade.

[szkorhetz]

I wouldn't do that deal, even if the Lakers wanted to. The Spurs are not going into the tax this year, according to Pop, and this deal drags them almost to the apron when you factor in the minimum contracts needed to meet roster requirements. It also places a huge salary burden on the Spurs next season, which would hurt their quest to get a legitimate back up to Leonard. Also, the Spurs' depth would be gone, and there'd be little money to replace it.

Getting a player like Williams now is really a good use of cap space. Worst comes to worst, they can move him in June or July for nothing and still have the space for free agents. I don't think he's been a bust at all, though. He's had some really good games, and Pop seems to think he would've been a good fit for the system. Also, the Spurs would still have the full MLE and some S&T options under that deal, which isn't true after the proposed Gasol trade.
Actually, that Gasol trade would make us the biggest contenders in the NBA. The best backcourt with the best frontcourt. I would definitely do that trade. No one could stop us... but really. Gasol is a very good passer, good mid-range shooter, great defender, other than Josh Smith, he is the best fit. I doubt Lakers would do that, but as a Spurs fan, who want to give everything to Timmy in his last seasons, this is a trade, which we should have accept in a heartbeat.

[TD 21]

That's always the risk with trades when you're a contending team. Even with all of the Spurs' warts, they're still a top team. It can get much worse.

Jack deserves the benefit of the doubt that he'll bounce back, but if he can't cut it for the Spurs, though, they're best served to move him. Getting the backup point situation and potentially getting a good prospect is a better use of cap space, in my opinion, than hoping to land a marquee free agent. Ridnour has flaws, but he seems able to run an offense, which is something we can't really say about Neal, De Colo or Mills. If he's playing bad defense, well, he seems right on par with the other potential back ups.

I don't want to see the Spurs shaken up unless they really show they can't hang with elite teams and that a trade can help them get there. So I definitely agree with you that Neal and Bonner for Williams is ideal. But with Jack out more time, the need for reliable wing depth is pronounced right now.

Yeah, but the reward isn't high enough in this case to take that risk. Plus, I think the could acquire Williams without having to resort to parting with Jackson and taking on Ridnour. By doing that, they'd only be creating a bigger hole than the one they'd be potentially fixing. Basically, it comes down to what would you prefer: Gelabale as the backup SF or Mills as the backup PG? I'd prefer the latter.

But we'll only know for certain if Jackson "can't cut it for the Spurs" in the playoffs. I'm not saying Jackson is unmovable, but he's like Green, in that if they're to move him, they've got to get a replacement back. Not just another body at SF, but someone who basically brings the exact same qualities.

[Chinook]

I don't know much about Gelabale. Bruno (or anyone else who would know), does he seem like someone who could step in an help the Spurs at small-forward this year? I'd say he has to be pretty bad to make playing Mills consistently at the backup point a better scenario.

I hope you're right about Williams. More than that, I hope Jack gets healthy soon and that the Spurs can avoid playing Green at the three. Maybe the Spurs could sign Gelabale soon as an injury fill-in, and if he performs well and Jack isn't by the deadline, they can consider trading Jack. I'd hate to see his contract go to waste.

[Chinook]

We may have to cool it on the Williams talk. Kevin Love just re-fractured his hand.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8816659/kevin-love-minnesota-timberwolves-re-fractures-right-hand

[TD 21]

To clarify, I'm not saying I'm sure the Spurs can get Williams for Neal, Bonner and maybe a 1st, I'm just saying, if they do get him, I think it would be for that.

Jackson's injury isn't serious though and they wouldn't play Gelabale ahead of him, so they wouldn't find out by the deadline whether he can be the primary backup SF or not, unless of course Leonard or Jackson get a relatively long term injury again. Even then, they'd probably do what they did the first time that happened, which was play Green and Ginobili more at SF, Neal at SG and De Colo and Mills at PG. I know what you mean though, in terms of Jackson's contract going to waste.

[Chinook]

We may have to cool it on the Williams talk. Kevin Love just re-fractured his hand.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8816659/kevin-love-minnesota-timberwolves-re-fractures-right-hand

To add to this, Williams had a good game today with 18 and 6 in 18 minutes:

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278214

He shot uncharacteristically well, though. We'll get a chance to see who Williams really is over these next few weeks.

[Bruno]

I don't know much about Gelabale. Bruno (or anyone else who would know), does he seem like someone who could step in an help the Spurs at small-forward this year?

Well, I really like Gelabale so I'm little biased but I think he could step in for a NBA team and be a solid wingman. He is a well rounded smart player that does very little mistakes. He won't have a big impact of the game because he isn't talented enough but he will give you some solid fundamentally sound minutes.

[ace3g]

Gelabale has provision in the current contract to derogate from it to 30 January this year. McCandless is confident that this time will receive an offer from the NBA. One of the teams that seriously thought about turning it into storage was Minnesota Timberwolves. Eventually, the club decided to Lazar Hayward.

Mickael Gelabale, who in late 2012, he moved to the Croatian Cedevity to Valencia, Spain, wants to return to the NBA. Agent Bill McCandless said basketball all 30 teams from the league that his client is ready to accept up to 10-day contract.

http://probasket.sk/news/hiszpania-gelabale-chce-wrocic-do-nba-47151?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter


(http://probasket.sk/news/hiszpania-gelabale-chce-wrocic-do-nba-47151?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter)

forgot I already posted that in the old Gelabale thread:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180924&p=6258780&viewfull=1#post6258780

[Paranoid Pop]

Yeah, but the reward isn't high enough in this case to take that risk. Plus, I think the could acquire Williams without having to resort to parting with Jackson and taking on Ridnour. By doing that, they'd only be creating a bigger hole than the one they'd be potentially fixing. Basically, it comes down to what would you prefer: Gelabale as the backup SF or Mills as the backup PG? I'd prefer the latter. But we'll only know for certain if Jackson "can't cut it for the Spurs" in the playoffs. I'm not saying Jackson is unmovable, but he's like Green, in that if they're to move him, they've got to get a replacement back. Not just another body at SF, but someone who basically brings the exact same qualities. I completely disagree. Diaw can play SF, he's not any slower than Sjax... and Manu can play SG with the first unit and a second unit of De Colo Neal or Mills is perfectly fonctionnal. We have internal solutions for theses "holes" that are very good or very promising. The Lovie injury is indeed very bad news and tbh I'm not hopeful we'll get anything of worth without trading the untradable Green and Splitter... But since they are untradable they will win us a championship so I don't worry.............................................

[Paranoid Pop]

If I was the FO I'd try to do Green (+Bonbon) for Ilyasova no matter what it takes pick wise.

[szkorhetz]

Are you still high on Ilya?

[Paranoid Pop]

Are you still high on Ilya? Yes, he's pretty much the perfect PF to play next to Tim.

[look_at_g_shred]

Trade Idea.

Spurs send Blair and Bonner to The Pelicans for R.Lopez....

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=abhca7g (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=abhca7g)

Sprinkle Neal,Joesph,DeColo,Mills and or Draft Picks as a sweetener If the Spurs had to add some sugar into the mix.
Works money wise.

I saw this guy <b>Jimmy Butler</b> Friday night against the Heat, and man was I impressed. He played outstanding defense on Lebron; not to mention, his rebounding capablities (offensive and defesnsive). I would trade Blair for this guy in a heartbeat. The Trade Machine said it was a Success. Thoughts? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=belrawx

[Mel_13]

I saw this guy <b>Jimmy Butler</b> Friday night against the Heat, and man was I impressed. He played outstanding defense on Lebron; not to mention, his rebounding capablities (offensive and defesnsive). I would trade Blair for this guy in a heartbeat. The Trade Machine said it was a Success. Thoughts? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=belrawx

What's in it for Chicago?

[look_at_g_shred]

What's in it for Chicago?

Maybe nothing, but who knows it's worth a call right? They may like Blair enough to do it.

[ace3g]

Sources say the Cavs and Timberwolves have talked about a Varejao trade. (http://morningjournal.com/articles/2013/01/05/sports/doc50e8d8d14a41c254310133.txt?viewmode=4) Minnesota would probably want the Cavs to take back forward Derrick Williams, which could be a deal-breaker. The Cavs could have interest in center Nikola Pekovic, a bruising 6-11, 290-pounder. Before anyone gets excited, forward Kevin Love is not available.
http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba/48895/cavs-and-timberwolves-have-talked-about-a-varejao-trade.html

[LittleCriminal]

I saw this guy <b>Jimmy Butler</b> Friday night against the Heat, and man was I impressed. He played outstanding defense on Lebron; not to mention, his rebounding capablities (offensive and defesnsive). I would trade Blair for this guy in a heartbeat. The Trade Machine said it was a Success. Thoughts? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=belrawx

I don't think the Spurs need a SF right now... IMO The Spurs need a Defensive Minded 6'10" or taller, young/vet, C/PF...
I also don't see why the Bulls would send us Butler who can guard L.James for Lamont who can't Guard anybody.
But, If the Spurs made any trade for Lamont I'd be happy... Lamont SUCKS!!

[look_at_g_shred]

I don't think the Spurs need a SF right now... IMO The Spurs need a Defensive Minded 6'10" or taller, young/vet, C/PF...
I also don't see why the Bulls would send us Butler who can guard L.James for Lamont who can't Guard anybody.
But, If the Spurs made any trade for Lamont I'd be happy... Lamont SUCKS!!

I see your point. That dude Samardo Samuels is available. He would provide a spark off the bench. Vicious on the boards as well. lol why do you guys call him Lamont?

[szkorhetz]

Sources say the Cavs and Timberwolves have talked about a Varejao trade. (http://morningjournal.com/articles/2013/01/05/sports/doc50e8d8d14a41c254310133.txt?viewmode=4) Minnesota would probably want the Cavs to take back forward Derrick Williams, which could be a deal-breaker. The Cavs could have interest in center Nikola Pekovic, a bruising 6-11, 290-pounder. Before anyone gets excited, forward Kevin Love is not available.


http://www.sportando.net/eng/usa/nba/48895/cavs-and-timberwolves-have-talked-about-a-varejao-trade.html

Then what about http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=annncyn after the trade we sign Samuels and go back to the finals..


Cavs got to non guarenteed deals.

[LittleCriminal]

I see your point. That dude Samardo Samuels is available. He would provide a spark off the bench. Vicious on the boards as well. lol why do you guys call him Lamont?

In this Video Below you will See The Dejuan Blair:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai7p4J2qRYg

The guy in the #45 Spurs Uniform who sits on the Bench and Plays Like Garbage In Garbage Time Is Lamont.

[LittleCriminal]

Then what about http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=annncyn after the trade we sign Samuels and go back to the finals..


Cavs got to non guarenteed deals.

I'd Say that's a dam good trade Idea!!

[Paranoid Pop]

Then what about http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=annncyn after the trade we sign Samuels and go back to the finals.. Cavs got to non guarenteed deals. With Neal instead of Blair and a first round pick, maybe it could work.

[Paranoid Pop]

Pick up the phone and do it Buford! Getting Derrick Williams without giving up Tiago Green would be a scenario that would exceed my expectations by a lot tho.

[Chinook]

With Neal instead of Blair and a first round pick, maybe it could work.

My thoughts exactly. The Cavs have no reason to take back Blair, so adding Neal (or Joseph, Mills or De Colo) makes it worthwhile.

[Chinook]

What's in it for Chicago?

Not that I'm saying this would be enough of a reason, but Chicago may want to save some money by getting Blair's expiring contract. They're going to be near the apron for a few years unless they amnesty Boozer. If they don't have plans for Butler, then they may want to use that million on someone else. It's also possible to revisit this if the Spurs find a way to get a trade exception for Blair. Taking back no salary may be really appealing.

I think they'd rather save some money by moving someone else, but perhaps a sweetener (the rights to Hanga or Bertans or a couple of second-rounders) can persuade them.

[TD 21]

The Love injury obviously and unfortunately means a Williams trade is far more unlikely, at least for what the Spurs have to offer. Williams might still get dealt as part of a bigger trade though.

A smaller trade, like the Ayon one I suggested, is probably the way they were going to end up going anyway, for two reasons . . .

1. It would probably take a player with the upside and the potential to be a very good fit, of Williams, for them to give up Neal and there's not exactly a lot of them available; even less for what the Spurs would offer. Also, it's clear from Pop's comments about him the past few months that they value him more than a lot of the fans do. Probably because they know, defensive improvement or not, to beat the Thunder, Heat and possibly Clippers, they're going to have to overwhelm them with their depth. Mills may be similar to Neal, but it's not just about backing up Parker. It's about Ginobili (consistency or lack there of), Green (confidence or lack there of) and Jackson (what, if any, is left?), too. Neal is capable of taking on a bigger role in the playoffs, if need be.

2. Now that Splitter and Diaw are in roles commensurate with their production, they really only need a solid fourth big anyway. Sure, it would be nice to have someone above that, but a lot of the names that get thrown around wouldn't play ahead of either of them anyway.

[Paranoid Pop]

The Love injury obviously and unfortunately means a Williams trade is far more unlikely, at least for what the Spurs have to offer. Williams might still get dealt as part of a bigger trade though. A smaller trade, like the Ayon one I suggested, is probably the way they were going to end up going anyway, for two reasons . . . 1. It would probably take a player with the upside and the potential to be a very good fit, of Williams, for them to give up Neal and there's not exactly a lot of them available; even less for what the Spurs would offer. Also, it's clear from Pop's comments about him the past few months that they value him more than a lot of the fans do. Probably because they know, defensive improvement or not, to beat the Thunder, Heat and possibly Clippers, they're going to have to overwhelm them with their depth. Mills may be similar to Neal, but it's not just about backing up Parker. It's about Ginobili (consistency or lack there of), Green (confidence or lack there of) and Jackson (what, if any, is left?), too. Neal is capable of taking on a bigger role in the playoffs, if need be. I won't say it's not what's going on in Pop's head because I don't know but that's pretty illogical. First we're not deep we're unbalanced, we'd be deep with another big. Secondly Neal will help us/be needed vs the Clippers and that monster named Bledsoe they have playing backup PG??? I don't think so.
2. Now that Splitter and Diaw are in roles commensurate with their production, they really only need a solid fourth big anyway. Sure, it would be nice to have someone above that, but a lot of the names that get thrown around wouldn't play ahead of either of them anyway. We won't see the Thunder again before the trade deadline but I don't think Tiago and Boris in their current roles are gonna cut it. We gave up like 20 offensive board and couldn't defend their PF... Obviously Ilyasova would the only one Pop might directly insert in the starting lineup but I'm not convinced at all we only need a fourth big...

[look_at_g_shred]

Then what about http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=annncyn after the trade we sign Samuels and go back to the finals..


Cavs got to non guarenteed deals.

C'mon Pop pull the damn trigger :)

[Chinook]

The Love injury obviously and unfortunately means a Williams trade is far more unlikely, at least for what the Spurs have to offer. Williams might still get dealt as part of a bigger trade though.

I was of this mind, but now I'm starting to wonder if a player like Bonner would appeal to Adelman even more now. He likes playing veterans, and Bonner is solid in three-point shooting, which the Wolves really need. Maybe now that there are minutes for another big, Minnesota may not think taking back Bonner's contract is a bad thing. Bonner and Neal may fill two of the biggest holes still remaining on that team (outside of Kirilenko's backup, of course).

I think a straight deal is still unlikely, but if a team like the Cavs really do consider Williams a bad commodity and the Spurs don't, then it is possible that Derrick can get shipped to San Antonio for expirings and a pick and other sweeteners. If Minnesota is truly after Varejao, I imagine they'll be even more inclined to try to close the deal now. They're in too precarious of a position to risk waiting five weeks for Love to come back.

[TD 21]

I won't say it's not what's going on in Pop's head because I don't know but that's pretty illogical. First we're not deep we're unbalanced, we'd be deep with another big. Secondly Neal will help us/be needed vs the Clippers and that monster named Bledsoe they have playing backup PG??? I don't think so.

It's inarguable that the Spurs possess strong scoring depth and that's what is going to be required if they're to beat those teams in the playoffs.

I said "possibly Clippers". Either way, Neal can still help against them, he just shouldn't bring the ball up against Bledsoe. It's not as if Mills/De Colo would do any better against him, though.


We won't see the Thunder again before the trade deadline but I don't think Tiago and Boris in their current roles are gonna cut it. We gave up like 20 offensive board and couldn't defend their PF... Obviously Ilyasova would the only one Pop might directly insert in the starting lineup but I'm not convinced at all we only need a fourth big...

Again, I'm talking about the playoffs. Splitter and Diaw may not cut it as second and third bigs, but nonetheless, given what they're likely to be willing to give up, they probably can't do better than that and that's why they'll probably make a move for a fourth big.


Chinook, I could see Adelman still being interested (he's old, has no past ties to the organization and deep down probably could care less about their long term future), but I'm not sure how much say he has in personnel matters. Kahn, I doubt would do that trade now (maybe he wouldn't have in the first place; who knows?). He probably envisions this as a final chance for Williams to up his trade value in advance of the deadline.

As far as Varejao, any trade involving him probably happens close to or at the deadline. The Cavs aren't in any hurry to deal him and unless they have some level of interest in Williams, it's difficult to envision a deal getting done anyway.

[LittleCriminal]

Boston on the Verge Of a Blockbuster Trade with... you saw it here First!!!

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bc48qvn (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bc48qvn)

I'm just goofing around but They are probably trading for Cousins from Sac..

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Y! Sources: Cleveland Cavaliers forward Omri Casspi, the first Israeli-born NBA player, has requested a trade. http://tinyurl.com/a35gcjz (http://t.co/6nReYZR4)

[Seventyniner]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA) Y! Sources: Cleveland Cavaliers forward Omri Casspi, the first Israeli-born NBA player, has requested a trade. http://tinyurl.com/a35gcjz (http://t.co/6nReYZR4)

aaaaaaand cue the Casspi + Varejao for Jax + filler/picks ideas!

I can't imagine Cleveland wanting what the Spurs are willing to offer btw.

[szkorhetz]

aaaaaaand cue the Casspi + Varejao for Jax + filler/picks ideas!

I can't imagine Cleveland wanting what the Spurs are willing to offer btw.
Actually, they will still be a lottery team next year. They don't need varejao's performance..
(OK, it won't happen)

[Paranoid Pop]

aaaaaaand cue the Casspi + Varejao for Jax + filler/picks ideas! I can't imagine Cleveland wanting what the Spurs are willing to offer btw. No but it would make a three way trade with Minny and Cleveland even more interesting for us but it's still very unlikely... Something like : http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aczwr97 with Green instead of Bonner. I'd love it because it would force Pop to play bigger.

[Paranoid Pop]

Wft is wrong with the forum? can't put any smiley anymore or do any kind of formating to your posts...

[Chinook]

No but it would make a three way trade with Minny and Cleveland even more interesting for us but it's still very unlikely... Something like : http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aczwr97 with Green instead of Bonner. I'd love it because it would force Pop to play bigger.

I don't like the idea of the Spurs playing any bigger than they are already. The league is about speed now, and there's no reason to try to play big wings when 6-4 players are considered shooting-guards. But trading Green would force the Spurs to go smaller, not bigger. It would mean more Neal and De Colo at the two, as Jack and Leonard lack the quickness to play the two consistently. That would mean that Jack, Kawhi and Casspi would all be trying to get minutes at the three. If Pop is going to play all of them, he'll need to use them at the four, which is obviously a down-sizing.

Add that to my feeling that Casspi is not half the player Green is, and you can see why I don't support that type of trade. I don't see any reason to bring Casspi unless Jack is dealt, and even then, I don't think Omri has any value right now.

[look_at_g_shred]

So I read that Memphis are also shopping Z-Bo. So what do you guys think of this http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=adnpbdk Thoughts?

[Mel_13]

So I read that Memphis are also shopping Z-Bo. So what do you guys think of this http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=adnpbdk Thoughts?

Did you read why the Grizz are shopping Randolph?

[look_at_g_shred]

Did you read why the Grizz are shopping Randolph?

Financial reasons. Here's the link http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/21520826/report-grizzlies-also-considering-trading-zach-randolph

[look_at_g_shred]

Did you read why the Grizz are shopping Randolph?

I think Z-Bo might be worth a phone call RC (hint hint)

[Mel_13]

I think Z-Bo might be worth a phone call RC (hint hint)

So you didn't read why the Grizz are shopping Randolph.

[look_at_g_shred]

So you didn't read why the Grizz are shopping Randolph.

Did u see the link?

[Mel_13]

Did u see the link?

Yes. Your trade proposal indicates that you didn't.

[Chinook]

Cliff notes version for why Memphis is trying to trade any player this season (for reference in this thread): Memphis desperately wants to get under the tax this season. The Grizzlies will only trade Randolph if they can save about $4 Million in salary, which is possible in a normal trade scenario where the other team is under the apron and all that. But the Spurs can only take about about a million more in salary (Pop says going over the tax is not an option this season), so they alone can't give Memphis a good enough deal.

If the Spurs managed to move Bonner to a team with cap for nothing through some means, then they would be able to do a worthwhile trade with Memphis. Until then, neither team is match for the other.

[Richie]

Cliff notes version for why Memphis is trying to trade any player this season (for reference in this thread): Memphis desperately wants to get under the tax this season. The Grizzlies will only trade Randolph if they can save about $4 Million in salary, which is possible in a normal trade scenario where the other team is under the apron and all that. But the Spurs can only take about about a million more in salary (Pop says going over the tax is not an option this season), so they alone can't give Memphis a good enough deal.

If the Spurs managed to move Bonner to a team with cap for nothing through some means, then they would be able to do a worthwhile trade with Memphis. Until then, neither team is match for the other.

We have absolutely nothing to offer them in terms of talent for ZBo.

I don't get why they don't salary dump some of their lesser players if they care so much. Just give away Marreese Speights for example, he's owed $8.7m/2yr. Must be more to it that just a tax issue.

[MaNu4Tres]

would be nice to have someone that could do this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyeZH7gGw_Y

Spurs have a handful of guys on the team that can streak down an open lane, jump, grab, and dunk an uncontested rebound with no one around them.

Not that impressive tbh.

[ace3g]

^

Out of the 2 guys (Bonner and Blair) he would most likely replace in the rotation if things went according to plan, which of those can dunk regularly on different types of plays: put backs, alley oops, fast breaks, etc?

Also he can shoot 3s, so he has value in the Spurs offense, something Blair can't do and has a quicker release than Bonner. Granted he could go cold in the playoffs like Bonner does, but that is a risk I would take.

[MaNu4Tres]

^

Out of the 2 guys (Bonner and Blair) he would most likely replace in the rotation if things went according to plan, which of those can dunk regularly on different types of plays: put backs, alley oops, fast breaks, etc?

Also he can shoot 3s, so he has value in the Spurs offense, something Blair can't do and has a quicker release than Bonner. Granted he could go cold in the playoffs like Bonner does, but that is n a risk I would take.

I agree that anything is better than Bonner and Blair. I was just stating that play wasn't very impressive. DWill would probably be even better than Jack tbh.

[Chinook]

Richie When I talk about trading Bonner for nothing, I mean the Spurs would have to shed that much salary to do any trade with Memphis that gets the Grizzlies what they really want. From a basketball perspective, it would be hard to match Randolph's talent, but that's going to be true regardless of the potential trade partner. Any player Memphis ships out is going to be at a discount to the other team.

All this Memphis trade talk has everything to do with their cap situation. It's much easier said than done to "just give away Speights." From what I've read, they've been trying to trade away him or Darrel Arthur for a while now. They can't find anyone who is willing to just give them an exception and picks for those players. The problem with those types of deals is that the Grizzlies can only take back like a million in salary if they want to get under the tax, whereas they have more leniency with larger contracts. It's easier to send out $16 Million and get $12 Million back than it is to send out $4 Million and get nothing back.

Moreover, trading a big contract like Randolph or Gay for smaller contracts helps prevent future tax problems. Trading away Speights or Arthur for nothing might alleviate the burden this year, but with increases in salaries and draft picks, the Grizzlies would be right back in tax hell next season. It might be less desirable to send away a "star" player, but that savings may be what Memphis needs to re-sign Tony Allen.

The new ownership knows that their predecessors were foolish for signing three players to max deals (in addition to signing Mike Conley for $40 Million) after working so hard to get under the cap. It wouldn't surprise me if they are willing to sacrifice a slim chance to win now in order to remake the team.

[ace3g]

Not sure if he would be better than Jack mainly because his defense is a question mark. That is the key and question I've been asking myself, what type of player are the Spurs looking for?

1. Versatile mobile PF like DW who has more offensive potential.

2. Defensive mobile PF/C with some offense.

[Chinook]

My whole take on Williams is this: If try to get him, that means he sees potential and is going to work to get Williams to be a good player this season and in the future. If the Spurs don't try, it probably means that Williams' wouldn't have been much of a contributor to what the Spurs are trying to do, anyway. I have faith in Pop's ability to develop players that he likes.

[Chinook]

Not sure if he would be better than Jack mainly because his defense is a question mark. That is the key and question I've been asking myself, what type of player are the Spurs looking for?

1. Versatile mobile PF like DW who has more offensive potential.

2. Defensive mobile PF/C with some offense.

I'd imagine that it really depends on how they see Diaw. If they see him as a fine third-string center, then I could see them going more for a combo-forward like Williams. If they think Diaw should only be a forward, then I think they'd try to get a big that could play the five.

Pop has been willing to play Diaw as a center in lieu of giving Duncan and Splitter more minutes, which seems to imply that he feels okay with that situation. He also plays Bonner over Blair, which adds to the idea that another center may not be necessary. Furthermore, the Spurs passed up on drafting a center (Sacre) and only brought one additional center (Curry) into camp while bringing in numerous forwards. So I think that the Spurs are probably looking for the first option.

Personally, I would try to get a forward by trading Bonner and/or Blair, and then try to sign a third-string center. Diaw can hold the fort fine in most cases, but I'd like to see a young big come in during crunch time instead.

[ace3g]

early in the season, but DW is 22/55 (40%) from 3

[Chinook]

I'd imagine that it really depends on how they see Diaw. If they see him as a fine third-string center, then I could see them going more for a combo-forward like Williams. If they think Diaw should only be a forward, then I think they'd try to get a big that could play the five.

Pop has been willing to play Diaw as a center in lieu of giving Duncan and Splitter more minutes, which seems to imply that he feels okay with that situation. He also plays Bonner over Blair, which adds to the idea that another center may not be necessary. Furthermore, the Spurs passed up on drafting a center (Sacre) and only brought one additional center (Curry) into camp while bringing in numerous forwards. So I think that the Spurs are probably looking for the first option.

Personally, I would try to get a forward by trading Bonner and/or Blair, and then try to sign a third-string center. Diaw can hold the fort fine in most cases, but I'd like to see a young big come in during crunch time instead.

Well that analysis didn't really work out :lol. I think signing Baynes shows the Spurs really want Diaw to play only as a forward for extended minutes. I imagine any big the Spurs acquire would be a four now. Right now, Bonner or Jack have to play the fourth big role. I see that as risky. If Williams is available, and the Spurs want him, I see those minutes being a good way to get his feet wet.

[Mel_13]

We have absolutely nothing to offer them in terms of talent for ZBo.

I don't get why they don't salary dump some of their lesser players if they care so much. Just give away Marreese Speights for example, he's owed $8.7m/2yr. Must be more to it that just a tax issue.

Dur to the structure of his contract, Speights can veto any trade. So it's even more complicated than most salary dumps, which are already complicated as Chinook explained.

[Paranoid Pop]

To me it would be intriguing to flip Splitter for a better "off the ball" PF now that we have a true backup center but I'm probably greedy.

If they want Williams then they should trade Sjax and play him SF, I'm not sure he's on the short list of player you trade Tiago for but who knows, I just don't think Tiago is gonna be worth the money he will command this summer for this team, not that he isn't good, just not a great fit imo.

I'm just not sure what kind of PF you can get with a package built around Splitter who is a free agent this summer... My two dream acquisitions would be McGee and Ilyasova, but neither seem really possible, then there's high ceiling prospects like Derrick Williams and Singleton...

All things considered I fully expect them to keep him anyway.

Neal + Blair could be the package if they make a (small) move, for Casspi maybe, after the French and Australian connections, Pop will use his Jewish connection...

[Chinook]

Baynes' deal pretty much cuts the Spurs' room under the tax in half. That will make it more difficult to do trades that require San Antonio to take back more salary. A Neal/Bonner for Williams deal would now put the Spurs right up against the tax (as little as 163k away), with barely enough room to sign rookies to 10-days and one to a rest-of-season deal. They might have to wait until March to do so.

[ABC]

Jackson, Splitter, and Blair for Boozer?

[pad300]

Assumption, just before the deadline, the T-wolves are in a lousy position to make the playoffs...

AK47
for
Sjax + Picks (depending on what the Twolves hold out for, up to 2013 and 2015 first round picks - top 5 protection on the 2015 pick.)

[Chinook]

Assumption, just before the deadline, the T-wolves are in a lousy position to make the playoffs...

AK47
for
Sjax + Picks (depending on what the Twolves hold out for, up to 2013 and 2015 first round picks - top 5 protection on the 2015 pick.)

No terrible, but I'm not sure if Kirilenko has been good enough this year to warrant the picks.

[Paranoid Pop]

The twin tower experiment is close to official failure imo. Got to get a pf who can shoot, ideally a starting pf because I really like Baynes-Diaw off the bench.

I'd trade Tiago, Neal, Sjax and some picks to get it, Green probably too but only if it gets us Ilyasova.

Maybe we send Tiago Neal for Derrick Williams, maybe we add Blair for financial reasons and ask for a first rounder. Hes not a proven starter but he got the exact skillset we need basically.

For Ilyasova, I think we'd have to send Green and Tiago and I'm not even sure they'd even think about moving him now that they replaced their coach...

[Russo21]

With Blair as good as gone and Jackson acting like a fuckwit i hope those 2 are on the chopping block and gone some time soon. Both have expiring contracts so i wander if anyone would take them together. Maybe a team wanting to tank would trade a good player on a long contract for us, hopefully :)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=amdapa9
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aqy3kh6
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wfevdy
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=alhg4mj
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b6gffos
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=akfjaqf
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bcjphcj
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c6prblt

So which shitty team wanting to tank and receive expiring contracts wants to deal with us ? Could be a busy trade deadline around the league and i hope we're involved in the mayhem.

[Russo21]

Then what about http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=annncyn after the trade we sign Samuels and go back to the finals..


Cavs got to non guarenteed deals.

That's interesting. I say all 3 teams improve in that to.

[Chinook]

The more I think about it, the less I'd be surprised if the Spurs' plan is to try to trade Bonner on draft night. Especially if the Spurs don't like anyone who's there at their pick, I could see them moving Bonner's mostly non-guaranteed deal to a team that wants to cut salary. If Minnesota hasn't found a taker for Williams then, they may be willing to part with him for Bonner and the first. A team like Washington may actually be willing to give away a second to trade Vesely.

Moveover, the Spurs could trade Bonner for about $6 Million in return salaries next year, whereas they can only take back about $4 Million right now. That makes a big difference, since adding those $2 Million would include players who got the full MLE, which teams often regret giving to players later. Trading for Bonner could potentially save teams $5 Million dollars in salary going into the off-season, which could be a big deal to teams looking to get in on the free-agent bonanza. I think Bonner's value is maximized then. I'd rather trade him for $6 Million than keep him and save $2.6 Million by waiving him.

[Mel_13]

The more I think about it, the less I'd be surprised if the Spurs' plan is to try to trade Bonner on draft night. Especially if the Spurs don't like anyone who's there at their pick, I could see them moving Bonner's mostly non-guaranteed deal to a team that wants to cut salary. If Minnesota hasn't found a taker for Williams then, they may be willing to part with him for Bonner and the first. A team like Washington may actually be willing to give away a second to trade Vesely.

Moveover, the Spurs could trade Bonner for about $6 Million in return salaries next year, whereas they can only take back about $4 Million right now. That makes a big difference, since adding those $2 Million would include players who got the full MLE, which teams often regret giving to players later. Trading for Bonner could potentially save teams $5 Million dollars in salary going into the off-season, which could be a big deal to teams looking to get in on the free-agent bonanza. I think Bonner's value is maximized then. I'd rather trade him for $6 Million than keep him and save $2.6 Million by waiving him.

I'd guess that you're assuming that the Spurs won't take back any significant extra salary if they trade Bonner now (3.6M out, 4M back), whereas they could get take back 150% of Bonner's 4M 2013-14 salary (4M out, 6M back). The only problem with that scenario is that the decision on paying off Bonner for 2013-14 must be made by June 29, 2013. After that date, his full 2013-14 salary is guaranteed. Trades made before June 30th use the 2012-13 numbers and rules.

[Chinook]

I'd guess that you're assuming that the Spurs won't take back any significant extra salary if they trade Bonner now (3.6M out, 4M back), whereas they could get take back 150% of Bonner's 4M 2013-14 salary (4M out, 6M back). The only problem with that scenario is that the decision on paying off Bonner for 2013-14 must be made by June 29, 2013. After that date, his full 2013-14 salary is guaranteed. Trades made before June 30th use the 2012-13 numbers and rules.

Thanks for that clarification. Why the hell did they set that date for guaranteeing the contract? It seems idiotic to take away that option for your team, and I doubt Bonner would have minded the extra day of uncertainty.

Still, it's a negligible difference. The point still stands that the Spurs can get more back by waiting until after the tax snapshot date to trade him. Since the draft is earlier than the 29th this year, the Spurs can still do a draft-night trade, but they can only take back $5.5 Million.

EDIT: Or do the tax rules still apply even after the snapshot date has passed?

[Mel_13]

Thanks for that clarification. Why the hell did they set that date for guaranteeing the contract? It seems idiotic to take away that option for your team, and I doubt Bonner would have minded the extra day of uncertainty.

Still, it's a negligible difference. The point still stands that the Spurs can get more back by waiting until after the tax snapshot date to trade him. Since the draft is earlier than the 29th this year, the Spurs can still do a draft-night trade, but they can only take back $5.5 Million.

EDIT: Or do the tax rules still apply even after the snapshot date has passed?

Well, I checked with Coon's FAQ and now I'm confused. He says that:

When determining the amount of tax a team owes, the league uses its team salary (see question number 14) on the date of its last regular season game (i.e., if a player is traded away before the end of the season, then none of his salary is taxed), with the following adjustments:

Any "unlikely bonuses" (see question number 72) that were actually earned are added to the team salary.
Any "likely bonuses" (see question number 72) that were not earned are subtracted from the team salary.
Any trade bonuses (see question number 95) for players received in trade after the last regular season game are added to the team salary.
Any amounts from settlements of grievances are added to the team salary.
For players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks) under the current CBA, and make less than the two-year minimum salary, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is used in place of their actual salary.
For minimum salary players whose salary is partially paid by the league (see question number 16) only the amount paid by the team (the two-year minimum salary) is taxed.
The salaries of players waived via the Amnesty provision (see question number 67) are exempt from the luxury tax.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

Still pretty sure that any trade made before June 30th uses the 2012-13 salaries, but now I'm not sure how such a trade would affect the 2012-13 tax calculation. Although, thinking back to the RJ trade, the Spurs did take back more salary, but I'm not sure if that extra amount would have put them over the threshhold.

Probably have to wait for Bruno to weigh in.

[Chinook]

Although, thinking back to the RJ trade, the Spurs did take back more salary, but I'm not sure if that extra amount would have put them over the threshhold.

They did? I thought including Ford's deal took care of that extra amount.

[Mel_13]

They did? I thought including Ford's deal took care of that extra amount.

When they acquired him from the Bucks. The trade was made on June 23, 2009. 11.8M went out and 13.2M came back in 2008-09 salaries.

[Chinook]

When they acquired him from the Bucks. The trade was made on June 23, 2009. 11.8M went out and 13.2M came back in 2008-09 salaries.

Oh, you meant THAT trade. Sorry. I like to remember the Spurs getting rid of him a lot more than them acquiring him :lol.

Bruno would know more about this than I would, but I think the snap shot date means the Spurs did not have to play taxes for the 2008-2009 season (or at least any extra tax due to Jefferson's deal). They didn't have to pay his salary that year, so it would surprise me if they had to pay the tax for it.

I don't think trading Bonner for more money in June would affect the tax payment for this season. I was more wondering about trade-exception rules when asking. If the rule still apply, then the Spurs can take back only about $4.6 Million (125 percent plus 100k). If they don't, then the Spurs can take back about 900k more. I don't think they have to worry about paying tax on the additional salary, either way.

[Mel_13]

Oh, you meant THAT trade. Sorry. I like to remember the Spurs getting rid of him a lot more than them acquiring him :lol.

Bruno would know more about this than I would, but I think the snap shot date means the Spurs did not have to play taxes for the 2008-2009 season (or at least any extra tax due to Jefferson's deal). They didn't have to pay his salary that year, so it would surprise me if they had to pay the tax for it.

I don't think trading Bonner for more money in June would affect the tax payment for this season. I was more wondering about trade-exception rules when asking. If the rule still apply, then the Spurs can take back only about $4.6 Million (125 percent plus 100k). If they don't, then the Spurs can take back about 900k more. I don't think they have to worry about paying tax on the additional salary, either way.

I think you're right about the tax, but I believe that they're limited by the 125% rule until July.

Bruno?

[Bruno]

So, If Spurs do a trade in June, it won't impact their luxury tax situation since, as Mel_13 said, the luxury tax is calculated at the end of the regular season. However, Spurs would still had to respect trade/CBA rules: if the trade put him over the tax, they won't be able to get more than 125%+100K and they will still have a hard cap $4M above the tax.

[Chinook]

Thanks, Bruno. That means the Spurs are limited to trading Bonner for about $4.6 Million on draft night... Unless, of course, they salary dump Blair before then, in which case they can go right up to the tax. Without Blair and with no new contracts on the roster, the Spurs could take back about $5 Million in salary (maybe a little more depending on Baynes' deal). That's still a good deal of money, and it would be enough to get Williams.

[Mel_13]

Thanks, Bruno.

[Paranoid Pop]

They should trade Green+any midget for Derrick Williams already, play KY at the 2 and start Boris at the 3.

TP
KY
Boris
Williams or Tiago depending of the matchup
Tim

Bench :

whoever
Manu
Sjax
Williams or Tiago
Baynes

At the 2 KY would be a monster, plus it's more convenient to switch him on both PGs and SFs.

[look_at_g_shred]

Only if this could happen ..Sanders and Baynes coming off the bench would be sick!!!http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d6ytnay

[look_at_g_shred]

Or this http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aovbap4

[Strategic]

Or this http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aovbap4

Like it, just too bad these things don't happen. Maybe if the Spurs added in Blair for a future consideration?

[look_at_g_shred]

Like it, just too bad these things don't happen. Maybe if the Spurs added in Blair for a future consideration?

Yeah maybe.

[look_at_g_shred]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cnd8kv8

[TheCerebral1]

What about trading for a guy like Tobias Harris. I'm not sure what could lure him in but something around Neal/Joseph and Blair.

[szkorhetz]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cnd8kv8
The bucks would not give up Sanders for nothing, not even for a hell lot of talent.

[Werdsniper2]

REGGIE EVANS:
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nba/players/full/1828.png&w=350&h=254

Spurs are ranked 21st overall in rebounding. Why not grab a rebounding mastermind in Evans, especially when he seems so readily available?

I feel like Blair + someone cheap could do the trick.

[Paranoid Pop]

REGGIE EVANS:
http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nba/players/full/1828.png&w=350&h=254

Spurs are ranked 21st overall in rebounding. Why not grab a rebounding mastermind in Evans, especially when he seems so readily available?

I feel like Blair + someone cheap could do the trick.

Don't see it and even then we now have Baynes on the way who is a great rebounder himself with better size, we need a PF now I think, someone who ideally can shoot/rebound/defend.

[Richie]

Don't see it and even then we now have Baynes on the way who is a great rebounder himself with better size, we need a PF now I think, someone who ideally can shoot/rebound/defend.

Big men who can shoot, rebound and defend command max salaries these days.

[Obiwonginobili]

what about derrick favors? something to this extent: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a8mpm6x Utah is short on PG's, derrick favors isn't getting any PT behind millsap and jefferson. They get something in return plus 3pt scoring.

[Chinook]

No to Evans: The Net traded for him in the off-season, and he's been one of their most underrated players. I don't think they'd give him up for spare parts.

Favors is getting a lot of playing time right now, to the extent that Millsap is supposedly unhappy that he's losing some himself. The Jazz traded Deron Williams for him; they're not likely to give him up for the Spurs' trash, either.

[pad300]

My proposal continues to be a swap of Sjax's expiring + picks for Kirilenko at the deadline. His versatility to split between PF and SF would be very useful.

[Richie]

what about derrick favors? something to this extent: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a8mpm6x Utah is short on PG's, derrick favors isn't getting any PT behind millsap and jefferson. They get something in return plus 3pt scoring.

I know people like to come up with trade scenarios, but everyone needs to stop throwing in Blair and Bonner as if anybody would want them. As a rule of thumb, take them out of the trade and then see if it looks good. This trade does not.

A trade like this is the equivalent of the Lakers offering Sacre/Clark/Blake for Kawhi.

[Mel_13]

No to Evans: The Net traded for him in the off-season, and he's been one of their most underrated players. I don't think they'd give him up for spare parts.

Favors is getting a lot of playing time right now, to the extent that Millsap is supposedly unhappy that he's losing some himself. The Jazz traded Deron Williams for him; they're not likely to give him up for the Spurs' trash, either.


I know people like to come up with trade scenarios, but everyone needs to stop throwing in Blair and Bonner as if anybody would want them. As a rule of thumb, take them out of the trade and then see if it looks good. This trade does not.

A trade like this is the equivalent of the Lakers offering Sacre/Clark/Blake for Kawhi.

:lol

1. Identify players on the Spurs you think are worthless.

2. Identify players on other teams you think make the Spurs much better.

3. Propose trading players from Group 1 for players in Group 2.

4. Complain when the FO isn't smart enough to pull off such trades.

5. Rinse and repeat.

[Chinook]

:lol

1. Identify players on the Spurs you think are worthless.

2. Identify players on other teams you think make the Spurs much better.

3. Propose trading players from Group 1 for players in Group 2.

4. Complain when the FO isn't smart enough to pull off such trades.

5. Rinse and repeat.

Those are the types of trades that were rejected back in the good old days of NBA Live. :lol 2K ruining people's understandings of reality with its override feature.

[Mel_13]

Mozgov on the market:

League sources said the Denver Nuggets are looking to deal center Timofey Mozgov, who has been unable to get much playing time on a deep team and has an expiring contract. Mozgov is aware he could be moved by the Feb. 21 trade deadline.

http://www.foxsportsflorida.com/01/14/13/Heat-could-pursue-big-man-Timofey-Mozgov/landing_heat.html?blockID=849199&feedID=10140

Denver is 28th in 3P%. If the Nuggs are looking to unload Mozgov, and they're certainly not playing him, they might actually have an interest in Bonner. The trade would work under the CBA.

[Chinook]

Mozgov on the market:

League sources said the Denver Nuggets are looking to deal center Timofey Mozgov, who has been unable to get much playing time on a deep team and has an expiring contract. Mozgov is aware he could be moved by the Feb. 21 trade deadline.

http://www.foxsportsflorida.com/01/14/13/Heat-could-pursue-big-man-Timofey-Mozgov/landing_heat.html?blockID=849199&feedID=10140

Denver is 28th in 3P%. If the Nuggs are looking to unload Mozgov, and they're certainly not playing him, they might actually have an interest in Bonner. The trade would work under the CBA.

It would work, and I think the Nuggets would have interest. I can't see how the Spurs would, though. They don't need four centers.

[Mel_13]

It would work, and I think the Nuggets would have interest. I can't see how the Spurs would, though. They don't need four centers.

One of them is being used as a PF and one has never played in the NBA.

Bonner's days are clearly numbered. He barely plays and he'll be traded or waived by June 29th. Mozgov would just be added to the mix of possibilities. While that's not much, it's more than Bonner is worth if waived. You lose the trade chip, but there's hardly any guarantee of getting a better asset than Mozgov for Bonner's contract.

Anyway, there are very few teams that may be interested in Bonner as a player. Denver could be one of them.

[Chinook]

One of them is being used as a PF and one has never played in the NBA.

Bonner's days are clearly numbered. He barely plays and he'll be traded or waived by June 29th. Mozgov would just be added to the mix of possibilities. While that's not much, it's more than Bonner is worth if waived. You lose the trade chip, but there's hardly any guarantee of getting a better asset than Mozgov for Bonner's contract.

Anyway, there are very few teams that may be interested in Bonner as a player. Denver could be one of them.

Trade him for Randolph, then. The salaries don't have to match, as Denver has a huge trade exception. That would be best, I think, because it would create a $1.9 Million TE for San Antonio, if they play their cards right. Plus, it'd create more room under the tax to do other moves (this season or in June).

[Chinook]

Honestly, Denver needs to stop fooling around and play Gallo at the four, Iggy at the three, and find a two they like. A guard like Neal may really appeal to them, but I don't see a deal that makes sense there.

[Mel_13]

Trade him for Randolph, then. The salaries don't have to match, as Denver has a huge trade exception. That would be best, I think, because it would create a $1.9 Million TE for San Antonio, if they play their cards right. Plus, it'd create more room under the tax to do other moves (this season or in June).

That would make more sense for the Spurs. No reports, however, that Denver wants to offload Randolph. Even though they haven't used him this season, he's still very young and is locked up for two more seasons for a total of 3.5M.

[Chinook]

That would make more sense for the Spurs. No reports, however, that Denver wants to offload Randolph. Even though they haven't used him this season, he's still very young and is locked up for two more seasons for a total of 3.5M.

In my opinion, Denver is a year away from being in Memphis' situation. They just keep re-signing every body. If they keep Brewer like they want to, they'll be right up against the tax next year. Even though Randolph is cheap, the Nuggets might have interest in moving his long-term deal for an expiring one. If they don't plan on using him, it's kind of a disservice to keep him. In a couple of years, he'll be the new Mozgov. (That's not really a justification of this trade, but rather just an observation on their management.)

Bonner will have his highest value in June. I don't think they Spurs should sell that chip for a player who at best is going to take away developmental minutes from Baynes. Saving the extra million bucks is hardly a sweetener to me, either.

[Paranoid Pop]

Honestly, Denver needs to stop fooling around and play Gallo at the four, Iggy at the three, and find a two they like. A guard like Neal may really appeal to them, but I don't see a deal that makes sense there.

Green + Tiago + Bonner as filler for McGee tbh... They get a starting caliber SG and Center, although lower level ones but on great contracts. We get all the monkeyballing we need...

[Chinook]

Green + Tiago + Bonner as filler for McGee tbh... They get a starting caliber SG and Center, although lower level ones but on great contracts. We get all the monkeyballing we need...

Not the worst idea I've ever heard. But I'd be nervous about losing Green until/unless Joseph or Neal showed some real consistency. I like the idea of getting McGee if Pop thinks he can really use him. But his lack of BBIQ makes hard to know. Also, Denver would have to add a player or two to make the numbers work, and that would push the Spurs right up against the tax.

I can't wait until tomorrow. It'll be so much easier when these BYC players can get put in the trade machine.

[Paranoid Pop]

Seriously the combined D of Tim KY and McGee would be incredible, if we're gonna sacrifice the spacing at least let's get the athletic freak with the biggest wingspan around... KY+McGee would put us on the same level of lengh as the Thunder basically.

[Mel_13]

In my opinion, Denver is a year away from being in Memphis' situation. They just keep re-signing every body. If they keep Brewer like they want to, they'll be right up against the tax next year. Even though Randolph is cheap, the Nuggets might have interest in moving his long-term deal for an expiring one. If they don't plan on using him, it's kind of a disservice to keep him. In a couple of years, he'll be the new Mozgov. (That's not really a justification of this trade, but rather just an observation on their management.)

Bonner will have his highest value in June. I don't think they Spurs should sell that chip for a player who at best is going to take away developmental minutes from Baynes. Saving the extra million bucks is hardly a sweetener to me, either.

True enough, unless Iggy opts out and they let him walk. I see the Mozgov/Randolph calculus differently when considering Denver's situation. It makes for sense to me for them to choose to keep Randolph over Mozgov.

As to the Spurs and Bonner, they may very well see it the way you suggest. The Spurs are typically patient. Holding Bonner's contract until June makes sense. You retain the possible of a significant move while the worst case scenario is paying him the 1M to go away.

[Mel_13]

Seriously the combined D of Tim KY and McGee would be incredible, if we're gonna sacrifice the spacing at least let's get the athletic freak with the biggest wingspan around... KY+McGee would put us on the same level of lengh as the Thunder basically.

Denver's not trading McGee, at least not for what the Spurs could offer.

[Chinook]

Denver's not trading McGee, at least not for what the Spurs could offer.

I agree that they shouldn't. But damn if they aren't constantly trading their players right now. It reminds me of Houston. If they don't think McGee can be a long-term starter, then moneyballing him for a highly efficient back up center and a starting two-guard is not the worst thing they could do. I imagine Splitter actually as a ton of value to knowledgeable front offices around the league. Everyone's looking for the next Gortat/Asik.

[Chinook]

True enough, unless Iggy opts out and they let him walk. I see the Mozgov/Randolph calculus differently when considering Denver's situation. It makes for sense to me for them to choose to keep Randolph over Mozgov.

As to the Spurs and Bonner, they may very well see it the way you suggest. The Spurs are typically patient. Holding Bonner's contract until June makes sense. You retain the possible of a significant move while the worst case scenario is paying him the 1M to go away.

In a binary sense, it does make sense to keep Randolph over Mozgov. But I think they should just trade Randolph and let Mozgov walk. Randolph is the type of signing that looks great from a value standpoint but really adds up in your cap math and seems pointless down the road. They should never have signed him. Mozgov's a free agent after this year, so there's no reason why they need to consider him a necessary piece if they move Randolph. They better not try to re-sign him if he lasts until the off-season. They really messed up with Chandler. With Brewer out playing him (Chandler has been hurt, though) they find themselves in a position where they may have to give up an asset just to send him away.

I'd only trade Bonner for either someone who is pretty sure to help this season or someone with potential to help later who may get snatched up if I wait. I don't consider Mozgov either of those types of players.

[Mel_13]

I agree that they shouldn't. But damn if they aren't constantly trading their players right now. It reminds me of Houston. If they don't think McGee can be a long-term starter, then moneyballing him for a highly efficient back up center and a starting two-guard is not the worst thing they could do. I imagine Splitter actually as a ton of value to knowledgeable front offices around the league. Everyone's looking for the next Gortat/Asik.

I'd agree, but I don't see trading for Splitter as a moneyball move, if that's what you meant. They have McGee for 3yrs/34M and don't have to negotiate or risk losing him in free agency.

I'm still of the opinion that the Spurs don't have the right assets to pry McGee from Denver.

[Mel_13]

In a binary sense, it does make sense to keep Randolph over Mozgov. But I think they should just trade Randolph and let Mozgov walk. Randolph is the type of signing that looks great from a value standpoint but really adds up in your cap math and seems pointless down the road. They should never have signed him. Mozgov's a free agent after this year, so there's no reason why they need to consider him a necessary piece if they move Randolph. They better not try to re-sign him if he lasts until the off-season. They really messed up with Chandler. With Brewer out playing him (Chandler has been hurt, though) they find themselves in a position where they may have to give up an asset just to send him away.

I'd only trade Bonner for either someone who is pretty sure to help this season or someone with potential to help later who may get snatched up if I wait. I don't consider Mozgov either of those types of players.

You make good points, but I don't agree about Randolph. Salary dumping a 1.7M player with his potential doesn't make sense to me. Someone has to occupy the roster spot and the potential savings are small.

[Chinook]

I'd agree, but I don't see trading for Splitter as a moneyball move, if that's what you meant. They have McGee for 3yrs/34M and don't have to negotiate or risk losing him in free agency.

I'm still of the opinion that the Spurs don't have the right assets to pry McGee from Denver.

Re-signing Splitter is made easier thanks to him being an RFA. The way I see it, McGee's contract is the the absolute max they can expect to have to pay to keep Splitter. Most likely, he'll be getting Asik money. So Splitter at $8 Million a year and Green at $3.65 Million would be almost equal to McGee's contract alone. Getting Green means they don't have to worry about re-signing Brewer, who really could get a big pay raise. So you take away about $5 Million for not having to keep Brewer and you have a savings of almost $4 Million. Even if you have to pay Splitter a ton of money, that still makes you break even. With the wing position secured, they can trade Chandler with no worries about having no one behind Gallo. That could save them even more.

So I do think it can be a smart financial move to send away McGee for players like Splitter and Green. I don't see a better deal out there if the Nuggets don't plan on rebuilding. You add the fact that the team should be better after than deal and there is definitely the possibility that the they end up doing something like this down the road. I don't think they'll consider moving him until next year, though. They still have to figure out their front-court, and they'll probably give everyone another off-season to adjust.

[Chinook]

You make good points, but I don't agree about Randolph. Salary dumping a 1.7M player with his potential doesn't make sense to me. Someone has to occupy the roster spot and the potential savings are small.

I was under the impression that trading for Bonner would be a move that could help them this year. It's not like I'm proposing trading Blair for Randolph. If they need three-point shooting that badly, then it might be worth giving up a player they have no plans to use. I'm sure they'd prefer to trade Mozgov, but I don't think that's good enough for the Spurs, unless they have a hell of an free-agency plan set up.

[Mel_13]

Re-signing Splitter is made easier thanks to him being an RFA. The way I see it, McGee's contract is the the absolute max they can expect to have to pay to keep Splitter. Most likely, he'll be getting Asik money. So Splitter at $8 Million a year and Green at $3.65 Million would be almost equal to McGee's contract alone. Getting Green means they don't have to worry about re-signing Brewer, who really could get a big pay raise. So you take away about $5 Million for not having to keep Brewer and you have a savings of almost $4 Million. Even if you have to pay Splitter a ton of money, that still makes you break even. With the wing position secured, they can trade Chandler with no worries about having no one behind Gallo. That could save them even more.

So I do think it can be a smart financial move to send away McGee for players like Splitter and Green. I don't see a better deal out there if the Nuggets don't plan on rebuilding. You add the fact that the team should be better after than deal and there is definitely the possibility that the they end up doing something like this down the road. I don't think they'll consider moving him until next year, though. They still have to figure out their front-court, and they'll probably give everyone another off-season to adjust.

Perhaps the Spurs do have the pieces to pry McGee away, after all. That, however, begs the next question. If all the highlighted statements are assumed to be true, why do the Spurs make the deal?

[Paranoid Pop]

Perhaps the Spurs do have the pieces to pry McGee away, after all. That, however, begs the next question. If all the highlighted statements are assumed to be true, why do the Spurs make the deal?

Well I don't know you Karl and their FO view McGee but I've yet to see any Denver fan even think about trading McGee, they mostly love him, so I'm not sure we really have the pieces but it's an idea.

[Mel_13]

I was under the impression that trading for Bonner would be a move that could help them this year. It's not like I'm proposing trading Blair for Randolph. If they need three-point shooting that badly, then it might be worth giving up a player they have no plans to use. I'm sure they'd prefer to trade Mozgov, but I don't think that's good enough for the Spurs, unless they have a hell of an free-agency plan set up.

I already agreed that Randolph makes more sense for the Spurs. I still see value for the Spurs in a Bonner for Mozgov deal. You do, however, make a case for Denver to do the deal for Randolph.

[Mel_13]

Well I don't know you Karl and their FO view McGee but I've yet to see any Denver fan even think about trading McGee, they mostly love him, so I'm not sure we really have the pieces but it's an idea.

When you look at the way each franchise usually operates, it does seem unlikely.

[Chinook]

Perhaps the Spurs do have the pieces to pry McGee away, after all. That, however, begs the next question. If all the highlighted statements are assumed to be true, why do the Spurs make the deal?

Haha, I don't think they do. I wouldn't, provided that I believed in my reasoning above. The Spurs could feel differently, of course. This may be a different story in the off-season, if the Spurs lose Splitter and have cap room lying around. A player like McGee would be helpful them. I just made the argument for trading for McGee because I feel like they could if they wanted to.

I'll say this though: There are things that make it easier for the Spurs to have McGee instead of Splitter and Green that aren't there for the Nuggets:

Wing security: They have Kawhi and De Colo locked up and can re-sign Neal. If Manu and/or Jack come back, there'd be a struggle to find minutes for everyone even minus Green.

Cap prognosis: They don't have as much money committed long-term as the Nuggets do. Making that trade doesn't even eat all of San Antonio's cap space, let alone push them toward the tax.

Rotation: There's no reason why Duncan would not be able to start with McGee. (We now know he can spread the floor :lol.) So McGee would probably start for the Spurs. A big reason why the Nuggets would be better is because they'd get Green, who'd allow everyone to slide over to their natural positions. Losing Green doesn't have the same effect for the Spurs.

These may seem like tiny differences, but I do think they're big enough that it's not clear cut that the Spurs and Nuggets would be equally affected by this swap.

[Mel_13]

Haha, I don't think they do. I wouldn't, provided that I believed in my reasoning above. The Spurs could feel differently, of course. This may be a different story in the off-season, if the Spurs lose Splitter and have cap room lying around. A player like McGee would be helpful them. I just made the argument for trading for McGee because I feel like they could if they wanted to.

I'll say this though: There are things that make it easier for the Spurs to have McGee instead of Splitter and Green that aren't there for the Nuggets:

Wing security: They have Kawhi and De Colo locked up and can re-sign Neal. If Manu and/or Jack come back, there'd be a struggle to find minutes for everyone even minus Green.

Cap prognosis: They don't have as much money committed long-term as the Nuggets do. making that trade doesn't even eat all of San Antonio's cap space, let alone pushes them toward the tax.

Rotation: There's no reason why Duncan would not be able to start with McGee. (We now know he can spread the floor :lol.) So McGee would probably start for the Spurs. A big reason why the Nuggets would be better is because they'd get Green, who'd allow everyone to slide over to their natural positions. Losing Green doesn't have the same effect for the Spurs.

These may seem like tiny differences, but I do think they're big enough that it's not clear cut that the Spurs and Nuggets would be equally affected by this swap.

Good stuff and plenty of food for thought. One thing for sure, a trade along those lines would make this place explode.

[TD 21]

I don't think either team would do Splitter/Green for McGee and McGee couldn't play next to Duncan, because neither can defend PF's. I also don't think the Nuggets would do Mozgov for Bonner. Sure, they need a stretch four, but with Chandler back, Gallinari will play PF more often, so Bonner wouldn't play anyway. Even if he did, they can do better. Randolph for Bonner, maybe, but if it were to happen, it would probably be around the draft. The Spurs would probably prefer to hold onto Bonner's contract and see if they can't do better between now and July 1st and if the Nuggets were willing to do that now, then chances are they will be then.

With the Baynes signing, other than trading Blair for essentially nothing, I no longer expect a move at the deadline . . . and it's not because I think Baynes will be in the rotation, either. I just think they accomplished their primary goal, which was getting a backup C, while avoiding the tax. I hope I'm wrong though, because they still need another big.

[Paranoid Pop]

I don't think either team would do Splitter/Green for McGee and McGee couldn't play next to Duncan, because neither can defend PF's.

McGee is faster than Tiago and even if their speed was comparable, McGee has twice the wingspan so I garantee you he would challenge shots better than Tiago and Boris...

[Chinook]

It's a big day for you, Paranoid Pop . Green's finally eligible to be traded.

So all the trades you were theorizing about like:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d9pylb3

and:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c4tu6yy

and now:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cvh8ylp

are available. I wonder if there will be any more movement now that this last major blockage in trades is lifted. Will the Nets make another run at Howard now that they can trade Lopez?

[Chinook]

I don't think either team would do Splitter/Green for McGee and McGee couldn't play next to Duncan, because neither can defend PF's. I also don't think the Nuggets would do Mozgov for Bonner. Sure, they need a stretch four, but with Chandler back, Gallinari will play PF more often, so Bonner wouldn't play anyway. Even if he did, they can do better. Randolph for Bonner, maybe, but if it were to happen, it would probably be around the draft. The Spurs would probably prefer to hold onto Bonner's contract and see if they can't do better between now and July 1st and if the Nuggets were willing to do that now, then chances are they will be then.

With the Baynes signing, other than trading Blair for essentially nothing, I no longer expect a move at the deadline . . . and it's not because I think Baynes will be in the rotation, either. I just think they accomplished their primary goal, which was getting a backup C, while avoiding the tax. I hope I'm wrong though, because they still need another big.

I honestly think that the Nuggets' best lineup would be Lawson, Player X, Iguadola, Gallinari, McGee. Once they stop trying to play big, everyone will be better off. They need a three-point specialist to play the two, but I could see them potentially making a move for Rip Hamilton this year.

I don't think they'd have interest in trading Randolph for Bonner in June, because all that would accomplish is saving about 350k. They need shooting this season, which could make Bonner worth it, but I doubt they'd want to pay him that much next season as well. So if they waived him, they'd be trading Randolph's $1.7 Million for Bonner's $1 Million buyout. Add in a roster charge, and it's almost no savings.

[Paranoid Pop]

I honestly think that the Nuggets' best lineup would be Lawson, Player X, Iguadola, Gallinari, McGee. Once they stop trying to play big, everyone will be better off. They need a three-point specialist to play the two, but I could see them potentially making a move for Rip Hamilton this year.


Faried is the one cockblocking McGee, they can't start two monkeyballers in the frontcourt and Karl seems to like Faried better.

[Paranoid Pop]

Would be interesting to know about Ilyasova's situation, he's now tradeable but with the coaching change they will probably wait to see how the season turns out despite his underwhelming start that led him back to the bench...

[Paranoid Pop]

It's a big day for you, Paranoid Pop (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=29467) . Green's finally eligible to be traded.


:lol

You'll have your revenge when next season everyone will call for Boris Diaw to be traded for any scrub that will shoot the ball.

[Mel_13]

Would be interesting to know about Ilyasova's situation, he's now tradeable but with the coaching change they will probably wait to see how the season turns out despite his underwhelming start that led him back to the bench...

I believe they'll be receptive to offers for Ilyasova. They're going to have have to spend big money to keep Jennings and Ellis, so I believe they'll look to dump one of their more expensive bigs. They'd obviously prefer to move Gooden, but they'd probably have to add sweeteners to generate interest for him. Ilyasova may well be obtainable for a package like the one you suggested.

[Chinook]

Faried is the one cockblocking McGee, they can't start two monkeyballers in the frontcourt and Karl seems to like Faried better.

I think it has more to do with there being no power-forward on the team besides Faried (not counting Gallo). McGee isn't a four, and neither are Koufus and Mozgov. So Faried is going to play, and if he can't do effectively that with McGee on the court, then someone else needs to be at the five. Putting Gallo at the four would probably let McGee play the five, and Faried and Koufus could dominate most bench bigs.

[Chinook]

I believe they'll be receptive to offers for Ilyasova. They're going to have have to spend big money to keep Jennings and Ellis, so I believe they'll look to dump one of their more expensive bigs. They'd obviously prefer to move Gooden, but they'd probably have to add sweeteners to generate interest for him. Ilyasova may well be obtainable for a package like the one you suggested.

Mbah a Moute is likely, too. Right now, he's playing the four, but with Harris and Henson pushing for more minutes, I don't know how long he'll hold on to a spot in the rotation. Bonner and Blair may be enough to get it done. He's signed really long-term, and I doubt the Bucks really want to keep him around for that much.

Ilyasova is possible, but I don't think it makes sense to trade Green for him. He'd also eat almost all of Jack's minutes, making the Good Captain expendable. I'd rather the Spurs pursue him as a trade target if they have cap space this off-season. That may be attractive to Milwaukee if they are really trying to go all-in in the free-agent market.

[Mel_13]

Mbah a Moute is likely, too. Right now, he's playing the four, but with Harris and Henson pushing for more minutes, I don't know how long he'll hold on to a spot in the rotation. Bonner and Blair may be enough to get it done. He's signed really long-term, and I doubt the Bucks really want to keep him around for that much.

Ilyasova is possible, but I don't think it makes sense to trade Green for him. He'd also eat almost all of Jack's minutes, making the Good Captain expendable. I'd rather the Spurs pursue him as a trade target if they have cap space this off-season. That may be attractive to Milwaukee if they are really trying to go all-in in the free-agent market.

1. He would take Jack's small ball minutes at the 4 (82games.com says he gets less than 30% of his minutes at the 4), but with Green gone there would be more minutes available at the wings.

2. So I don't believe that acquiring Ilyasova would make Jack expendable, although he would certainly be even more available than he is right now.

[Chinook]

1. He would take Jack's small ball minutes at the 4 (82games.com says he gets less than 30% of his minutes at the 4), but with Green gone there would be more minutes available at the wings.

2. So I don't believe that acquiring Ilyasova would make Jack expendable, although he would certainly be even more available than he is right now.

I didn't account for Green's minutes being available, but I don't think that they're going to either Jack or Ilyasova. Some could go to Leonard, but I think most would go to Neal, with Mills and De Colo taking the rest (in addition to taking some minutes at the point, of course). Joseph would probably get two-guard minutes ahead of Jack right now. I almost consider him a combo-forward now, which is exactly the role Ilyasova would have. I'd like to see Jack moved for a younger wing if this trade were to go through.

[Mel_13]

I didn't account for Green's minutes being available, but I don't think that they're going to either Jack or Ilyasova. Some could go to Leonard, but I think most would go to Neal, with Mills and De Colo taking the rest (in addition to taking some minutes at the point, of course). Joseph would probably get two-guard minutes ahead of Jack right now. I almost consider him a combo-forward now, which is exactly the role Ilyasova would have. I'd like to see Jack moved for a younger wing if this trade were to go through.

IMO, if Jack is on the team when the playoffs begin, Pop will have him in the rotation. Certainly ahead of players like Mills, De Colo, and Joseph.

[Chinook]

IMO, if Jack is on the team when the playoffs begin, Pop will have him in the rotation. Certainly ahead of players like Mills, De Colo, and Joseph.

He'll have to show he can consistently play at the two still. Otherwise, Leonard may be the starting off-guard.

[Mel_13]

He'll have to show he can consistently play at the two still. Otherwise, Leonard may be the starting off-guard.

I don't see Jack losing any minutes as the backup SF, but I also don't see him playing at the 2. Leonard is much more likely to get some minutes at SG, and I don't see any reason why they couldn't play together as the wings in a big line-up.

[Chinook]

I don't see Jack losing any minutes as the backup SF, but I also don't see him playing at the 2. Leonard is much more likely to get some minutes at SG, and I don't see any reason why they couldn't play together as the wings in a big line-up.

I imagine that's what Pop would have to do in the playoffs.

I don't see how the Spurs could make such a big commitment to Ilyasova if they don't intend to play him big minutes. He's too young to just split minutes with Diaw and Splitter. I think he'd play a lot of minutes at the four. He'd either start at the three and move over when the bench plays or start at the four and move down.

[Mel_13]

I imagine that's what Pop would have to do in the playoffs.

I don't see how the Spurs could make such a big commitment to Ilyasova if they don't intend to play him big minutes. He's too young to just split minutes with Diaw and Splitter. I think he'd play a lot of minutes at the four. He'd either start at the three and move over when the bench plays or start at the four and move down.

Or they go back to Diaw in the starting line-up and bring Ilyasova off the bench with Splitter.

I don't think they would have to make Ilyasova a starter immediately. He would go right into the rotation, as a 4 almost exclusively IMO, but his youth and length of contract make him an acquisition for the future (Diaw and Splitter could both sign elsewhere this summer) as much as the present.

[Chinook]

Or they go back to Diaw in the starting line-up and bring Ilyasova off the bench with Splitter.

I don't think they would have to make Ilyasova a starter immediately. He would go right into the rotation, as a 4 almost exclusively IMO, but his youth and length of contract make him an acquisition for the future (Diaw and Splitter could both sign elsewhere this summer) as much as the present.

Duncan, Baynes, Ilyasova and Williams would make a pretty good rotation for the future.

[Seventyniner]

The Bucks do seem like a natural trading partner for the Spurs. Unfortunately, if the Bucks want to dump salary like you say, the best piece the Spurs can offer is Jax, who is toxic to them.

Maybe something based around Jax to Utah, Mo Williams and Danny Green (or better, Neal) to Milwaukee, Ilyasova and Mbah a Moute to San Antonio?

Yeah it's a salary dump for Milwaukee, but it might be the best they can do. They might demand a pick in there somewhere. Sprinkle in Bonner or Blair as needed.

[elemento]

Utah has no reason to trade Mo for Jack. Not only Mo is cheaper but he also has more value than Jack. If MIL wants to dump Ersan and Moute, they would be able to find better offers quite easily. This trade only helps the Spurs.

[Seventyniner]

Utah has no reason to trade Mo for Jack. Not only Mo is cheaper but he also has more value than Jack. If MIL wants to dump Ersan and Moute, they would be able to find better offers quite easily. This trade only helps the Spurs.

Yeah, and the Jazz are in the running for a playoff spot, and that trade would be for a team who has given up. The same can be said for Milwaukee.

I was just seeing if there was a way to find a somewhat large expiring on a third team so the Bucks wouldn't take Jax back.

The more I look at that trade idea, the more of a 2-post gnsf I seem. Just shoot me now.

[Mel_13]

The more I look at that trade idea, the more of a 2-post gnsf I seem. Just shoot me now.

This is the trade idea that was being discussed:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c4tu6yy

The Bucks relieve themselves of an expensive, long term deal and get back a rotation player on a very reasonable contract. I'm not sure what trade idea you're referring to, but the one under discussion when you joined in doesn't fit the description in the quoted post.

[Chinook]

Mo Williams is injured right now. It's also rumored that the Jazz want a younger point guard. So trying to get a player like Jennings makes sense. They have Mo to offer to the Bucks as a player who can help for the stretch run when he gets healthy. The Bucks would probably demand that the Jazz take back Gooden's contract for Jennings in addition to offering sweeteners. My recommendation to you, Seventyniner is this: you want to see about how San Antonio can get in on that trade, start with this base:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cspbx9u

and work from there.

[Chinook]

This is the trade idea that was being discussed:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=c4tu6yy

The Bucks relieve themselves of an expensive, long term deal and get back a rotation player on a very reasonable contract. I'm not sure what trade idea you're referring to, but the one under discussion when you joined in doesn't fit the description in the quoted post.

He means the one he proposed earlier that involves trading Jack to the Jazz.


Maybe something based around Jax to Utah, Mo Williams and Danny Green (or better, Neal) to Milwaukee, Ilyasova and Mbah a Moute to San Antonio?

That's more far-fetched than the one you're talking about.

[Mel_13]

He means the one he proposed earlier that involves trading Jack to the Jazz.



That's more far-fetched than the one you're talking about.

Ok. He was mocking himself. I didn't catch that on first read. Thanks.

[Seventyniner]

Would the Spurs be more interested in Ilyasova or Mbah a Moute, given the choice? Which of the two would Milwaukee prefer to move if they could only move one?

Personally, I think the Spurs could use Mbah a Moute more as someone to throw against Durant in a smallball lineup (with the big 3 and Kawhi or Green).

Is this what you meant, Chinook? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d7etw2z
Then again, Utah probably says no to that, and I don't think there are enough draft picks or sweeteners the Spurs could put in to change Utah's mind.

I tried a few that involved the Spurs getting Ilyasova, Mbah a Moute, and Gooden, but that that puts the Spurs into the tax this year (I couldn't send enough salary out without completely gutting the team).

I'll have to put a lot more thought into a third team that makes sense. I don't think Utah can get it done.

[Chinook]

Would the Spurs be more interested in Ilyasova or Mbah a Moute, given the choice? Which of the two would Milwaukee prefer to move if they could only move one?

Personally, I think the Spurs could use Mbah a Moute more as someone to throw against Durant in a smallball lineup (with the big 3 and Kawhi or Green).

Is this what you meant, Chinook? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d7etw2z
Then again, Utah probably says no to that, and I don't think there are enough draft picks or sweeteners the Spurs could put in to change Utah's mind.

I tried a few that involved the Spurs getting Ilyasova, Mbah a Moute, and Gooden, but that that puts the Spurs into the tax this year (I couldn't send enough salary out without completely gutting the team).

I'll have to put a lot more thought into a third team that makes sense. I don't think Utah can get it done.

That's better, but I'd still have a couple of concerns:

1) After Baynes' deal gets done, the Spurs will have less room under the tax. That trade does put them over. If Milwaukee wanted Mills instead of Neal, that would keep the Spurs under (it's really close), but that's probably not the case.

2) This trade gives the Bucks tons of cap space, but not much in the way of incentives. Jennings himself would probably require two first-round picks to get the Bucks to part with him. Ilyasova makes the potential cost a lot higher. Switching Neal and Blair may help this factor, or maybe even switching Blair for De Colo or Joseph if they have any value for Milwaukee.

All in all, it's a pretty well-balanced trade. I don't know if any of the teams would think that it is a good deal for them, but I don't think anyone really gets screwed (provided Milwaukee gets two or three first-rounders). If the Bucks are desperate for cap space and are not sold on giving Jennings a max offer, they may consider moving him for that package.

Maybe something like this: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=avphunb

It's an idea, but to me it seems like too big of a trade for the Spurs to do. Also, it'd be hard to see how Kawhi, Splitter, Mbah a Moute, Iylasova and Diaw could all get court time. I honestly couldn't see the Spurs wanting to get both of those players. I think Mbah a Moute would be more likely, as I don't see him having a big price tag at all. I think this could get it done:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wzsdlq

I think he'd be a fine fit with the Spurs if he can shoot better than he has been recently. He's a good defender, but he hurts the offense a lot when he's on the floor.

EDIT: I think Milwaukee would rather move Mbah a Moute, as they still have hope that Ilyasova can play the three. Mbah a Moute is a four, and that makes him a lot less value, due to the rise of Henson.

[Seventyniner]

That's better, but I'd still have a couple of concerns:

1) After Baynes' deal gets done, the Spurs will have less room under the tax. That trade does put them over. If Milwaukee wanted Mills instead of Neal, that would keep the Spurs under (it's really close), but that's probably not the case.

2) This trade gives the Bucks tons of cap space, but not much in the way of incentives. Jennings himself would probably require two first-round picks to get the Bucks to part with him. Ilyasova makes the potential cost a lot higher. Switching Neal and Blair may help this factor, or maybe even switching Blair for De Colo or Joseph if they have any value for Milwaukee.

All in all, it's a pretty well-balanced trade. I don't know if any of the teams would think that it is a good deal for them, but I don't think anyone really gets screwed (provided Milwaukee gets two or three first-rounders). If the Bucks are desperate for cap space and are not sold on giving Jennings a max offer, they may consider moving him for that package.

I can definitely say this: your posts show that quality is better than quantity. I hadn't considered the Baynes signing and tax hit. You're right that the Bucks would need a lot to part with Jennings. There are two other aspects to that, though.

1) Jennings is about to be a RFA, and the Bucks might think that he'll get an offer they won't want to match.
2) Having Millsap at the end of the season is beneficial in two ways: you get to offer him 7.5% raises and a 5th year instead of 4.5% raises and only 4 years (if you want to keep him), and if he really wants to leave, you can sign-and-trade him to his preferred destination and get a fat trade exception out of the deal. That second factor might be enticing to the Bucks.


Maybe something like this: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=avphunb

It's an idea, but to me it seems like too big of a trade for the Spurs to do. Also, it'd be hard to see how Kawhi, Splitter, Mbah a Moute, Iylasova and Diaw could all get court time. I honestly couldn't see the Spurs wanting to get both of those players. I think Mbah a Moute would be more likely, as I don't see him having a big price tag at all. I think this could get it done:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wzsdlq

I think he'd be a fine fit with the Spurs if he can shoot better than he has been recently. He's a good defender, but he hurts the offense a lot when he's on the floor.

EDIT: I think Milwaukee would rather move Mbah a Moute, as they still have hope that Ilyasova can play the three. Mbah a Moute is a four, and that makes him a lot less value, due to the rise of Henson.

Good point about the almost embarrassing depth at forward that first trade would create. It would certainly move Splitter back to the bench (except against LAL or MEM) and make the Baynes signing much less useful in the short term.

Your second deal is an orgasm waiting to happen for gnsfs. I had really thought that Mbah a Moute was a SF, though. If his only value is as a smallball 4, it limits his usefulness. If he can defend mobile or small 4s well (afaik he's a defensive specialist), he could fit alongside scorers like Manu, Neal, and Jackson off the bench.

It's also hard to imagine the Spurs making a major deal without trying to address backup PG. I thought about trying to work Earl Watson to the Spurs in those trades with the Jazz and Bucks. If his defense hasn't slipped, he'd be an ideal backup, like a better, more experienced version of Cory Joseph, with better passing and worse scoring.

[MaNu4Tres]

In the Spurs eyes, I highly doubt Ersan is held in a high enough regard to justify taking back his dumb contract.

[Mel_13]

In the Spurs eyes, I highly doubt Ersan is held in a high enough regard to justify taking back his dumb contract.

2011-12 Ersan earned that contract. 2012-13 Ersan has yet to live up to it, but 3yrs/24M for the 2011-12 version isn't a bad deal. He'll be turning 29 at the end of that 3rd year, so you're buying what should be his best years.

[Chinook]

According to the numbers Mbah a Moute has never really been that good of a defender. I know stats don't really capture the value of a defensive specialist, but according the Basketball Reference (which has some weird ways to calculating advanced stats, I've heard) he has a defensive rating of 105, which is about middle of the road. He doesn't stand out in total rebound percentage (156/440), block percentage (212), steal percentage (229) or defensive win shares (187). Add that to his poor offensive rating (bottom quarter) and low true shooting percentage (he is one of the lowest-ranked rotation players), and you can see why I think the Bucks may want out of his deal.

But the Bucks gave him that contract because he has been really strong on both sides of the ball in previous years. His offensive rating was actually pretty good (132/442) in 2009-2010. He was above average in rebounding (140th in TRB%), blocks (143rd in Blk%) and … very strong in DWS (53rd ). He was even able to post an average TS% (214th). He also shot 35 percent from three that year.

It was those numbers that convinced the Bucks that he could play the three in the NBA. But that has really not been the case. He couldn’t even play spot minutes there when Dunleavy was hurt earlier this season. Since it looks like Ilyasova is going through a similar situation right now, Mbah a Moute is someone to watch. If Ilyasova has to move to the four, then that makes the big rotation very crowded. Henson has played too well to get pushed out of the rotation by Mbah a Moute, and Ilyasova is still putting up good enough numbers to where he’d probably start next to Sanders.

Matching Denver’s offer seems to have backfired on the Bucks. It’s only a matter of time before Mbah a Moute is pushed out of the rotation. He just doesn’t have much value, even as a defensive specialist, now that Skiles is gone. But the San Antonio, he might return to form. If he could get back to shooting 35 percent from three, he’d be an asset. I’ve heard he can defend at least three positions, and that’s always of value against the Thunder and Heat. I’d make a deal for Bonner, Neal, and maybe a second-round pick or the rights to Hanga. I wouldn’t go beyond that; there’s just too big of a risk that he’d be a liability.

[Chinook]

In the Spurs eyes, I highly doubt Ersan is held in a high enough regard to justify taking back his dumb contract.

I think his contract is fine. I just don't think the Spurs are willing to give up Green to get him.

If the Spurs have cap room this summer, I fully expect them to fill it with trades instead of with signings. There will be some good players available for teams trying to get into the free-agent fest that's going to happen in July.

[Mel_13]

If Ilyasova has to move to the four

You've made frequent reference to Ilyasova as a 3. Are you basing this on watching a lot of Bucks games? I haven't, so I would defer to someone who has, but when you look at the line-ups when he has started, it looks like he's being using as a 4. Also, when you check 82games (I know it's not perfect), they show Ilyasova playing all his minutes at the 4 while Mbah a Moute is shown as splitting his minutes equally between the 3 and the 4.

[Chinook]

You've made frequent reference to Ilyasova as a 3. Are you basing this on watching a lot of Bucks games? I haven't, so I would defer to someone who has, but when you look at the line-ups when he has started, it looks like he's being using as a 4. Also, when you check 82games (I know it's not perfect), they show Ilyasova playing all his minutes at the 4 while Mbah a Moute is shown as splitting his minutes equally between the 3 and the 4.

I've watch a couple of Bucks games to scout, but no where near enough to be considered an authority on the matter. They were right after everyone was starting to come back from injury, so that may have shaken up the lineups. But I do know that right now Mbah a Moute starts at the four and Ilyasova the three, but since they often share the court together, it's possible that such a distinction doesn't matter. Since Ilyasova does more of the ball-handling and shooting, I'd consider him the three. And Mbah a Moute is usually not paired too long with two other bigs.

If they've made the transition to Ilyasova at the four already, then I think it's just a matter of time. With a new coach, I imagine everyone's trying to see what works. It's possible they don't trust their wings enough. I still think Mbah a Moute is struggling too much from the perimeter to actually be considered a wing, though. We'll see what happens.

[Mel_13]

Thanks.

[Chinook]

In the Lakers game right now, Mbah a Moute is guarding Howard. That's interesting, and it would be more impressive if Dwight weren't dunking on him.

EDIT: And they're using Nash to guard him ... and he isn't really doing anything against him, even though their giving him the ball every time down the court.

[DPG21920]

Mozgov on the market:

League sources said the Denver Nuggets are looking to deal center Timofey Mozgov, who has been unable to get much playing time on a deep team and has an expiring contract. Mozgov is aware he could be moved by the Feb. 21 trade deadline.

http://www.foxsportsflorida.com/01/14/13/Heat-could-pursue-big-man-Timofey-Mozgov/landing_heat.html?blockID=849199&feedID=10140

Denver is 28th in 3P%. If the Nuggs are looking to unload Mozgov, and they're certainly not playing him, they might actually have an interest in Bonner. The trade would work under the CBA.

I can't believe McGee is not openly on the market. They gave him big contract and he's buried on the bench too. He can't be happy at all. With Wilson Chandler healthy now too, could get worse (small ball)

[Chinook]

Bruno is there any specific procedure to go through to set up a Trade Target thread? I see there used to be some on here, and it may help and it may help if there were specific ones for people like Williams, Mbah a Moute, Ilyasova and the rest.

[Mel_13]

Bruno is there any specific procedure to go through to set up a Trade Target thread? I see there used to be some on here, and it may help and it may help if there were specific ones for people like Williams, Mbah a Moute, Ilyasova and the rest.

Anyone can submit a thread in the Think Tank, you just won't see it posted until a mod approves it. Just use one of the old Trade Target threads for the format and start threads on the players you named. As long as it makes sense, it will be approved and posted.

[Chinook]

Anyone can submit a thread in the Think Tank, you just won't see it posted until a mod approves it. Just use one of the old Trade Target threads for the format and start threads on the players you named. As long as it makes sense, it will be approved and posted.

Thanks. I'll work on some tomorrow. Any requests for targets?

[Mel_13]

Thanks. I'll work on some tomorrow. Any requests for targets?

Just went through the rosters to make a list of PGs with some NBA experience that might be available. Didn't go the next step of trying to imagine realistic trades, but here's a list to start brainstorming from:

Devin Harris
Nate Robinson
Beno :lol
Ridnour or Barea
Seb Telfair
Nolan Smith or Ronnie Price
John Lucas III or Lowry or Calderon

There should be a reasonable target or two in there somewhere.

[Chinook]

Just went through the rosters to make a list of PGs with some NBA experience that might be available. Didn't go the next step of trying to imagine realistic trades, but here's a list to start brainstorming from:

Devin Harris
Nate Robinson
Beno :lol
Ridnour or Barea
Seb Telfair
Nolan Smith or Ronnie Price
John Lucas III or Lowry or Calderon

There should be a reasonable target or two in there somewhere.

I'll see what I can do.

[Bruno]

Bruno is there any specific procedure to go through to set up a Trade Target thread? I see there used to be some on here, and it may help and it may help if there were specific ones for people like Williams, Mbah a Moute, Ilyasova and the rest.

No specific procedure. You can start a thread and I'll approve it, you can post in this thread a list of trade targets with a mention for me like you just did, you can pm me...

If you start of a thread, no need to bother formatting it because it only takes me few seconds doing it. If you aren't a well recognized poster, I'll start a new thread instead of approving yours. It's nothing personal or me wanting to take credit for your find. It's just that, if you end up being put on the all ignore list, the thread and all its content will disappear.

PS: There is a thread where all the "Trade Target" are listed: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124694
For example, Ilyasova still has a "Trade Target" thread about him.

[ABC]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/225614/Josh_Smith_Kicked_Out_Of_Practice_Suspended_One_Ga me

Josh Smith was kicked out of Tuesday's practice by Larry Drew, according to a source.

Smith is suspended for Wednesday's game for conduct detrimental to the team.

:)

[szkorhetz]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=af8syps

Do it, Pop.

[ace3g]

Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS (https://twitter.com/KBergCBS) Smith's agent speaks with Danny Ferry, stops short of trade request. In other words, let the Josh-a-palooza begin. #NBA (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NBA&src=hash) http://cbsprt.co/UtSAlD (http://t.co/ohilIqdp)

[Chinook]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=af8syps

Do it, Pop.

Pushes the Spurs above the tax. That's the only think keeping this from being a good trade for both teams.

[Chinook]

Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS (https://twitter.com/KBergCBS) Smith's agent speaks with Danny Ferry, stops short of trade request. In other words, let the Josh-a-palooza begin. #NBA (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23NBA&src=hash) http://cbsprt.co/UtSAlD (http://t.co/ohilIqdp)

Smith's not going to the Spurs. But this is an interesting time. There could be a lot of movement soon, and the Spurs with assets like Neal, Blair and Bonner and Jacks' expiring contracts can get some nice things if they act as facilitators. We'll see what happens. Too bad Varejao is injured, or else it'd be getting crazy.

[EmantheSpursFan]

Hey how about Samuel Dalembert, he seems like he could be a reasonable target since he's just rotting away in Milwaukee. Trade Bonner Blair for him.

[Chomag]

Hey how about Samuel Dalembert, he seems like he could be a reasonable target since he's just rotting away in Milwaukee. Trade Bonner Blair for him.

Would much rather try to get Larry Sanders from Milwaukee. Neal and Blair could it done but I would not be so sure that Milwaukee would like it.

[pookenstein]

You think the Spurs are among the teams interested in J.J. Hickson? Maybe a trade involving Green and Mills/Joseph to give Portland somee depth? Not sure if Portland would bite, probably not, but would the Spurs do it?

[Chinook]

The Spurs don't need a center; they have three already. They need a power-forward, preferably one who can also play some minutes at the three. There's no reason to give up assets for Dalembert (the salaries of the proposed trade don't even match) or Hickson. If the Spurs like them, they can sign them outright in the off-season if Splitter leaves. Sanders is obviously worth trading for, but Milwaukee wouldn't do if for that deal.

I'd rather the Spurs stand pat than trade for another center.

[Bruno]

With Splitter starting and the Baynes signing, Spurs don't really need another bigman. They can go with a primary rotation of Duncan/Splitter/Diaw. To complement it, Baynes could give some minutes if one of Splitter or Duncan is in foul troubles and Spurs can play some small ball with Jack or Kawhi at the 4.

I can really see Spurs doing close to nothing at the trade deadline. If Blair wants to be traded and if there is a team interested in him, Spurs could trade him for nothing. Aside of that Spurs could stand pat. I personally would like to see Spurs clear their logjam of guards and maybe getting a young forward but it's far from sure Spurs' FO see it that way.

[Paranoid Pop]

Yeah they don't need anyone but could use someone a SF-PF.

Aside from the backup PG situation starting SG is the weakest position but it could be fixed by a SF since KY can guard 2s.

I would still be very interested in guys like Ilyasova or Williams with Green and Sjax being the only assets I'd be willing to part with.

It's still very much in doubt that we have the mobility to defend the Ibakas of the league and the Pnr in general.

[Paranoid Pop]

McGee would still be awesome and worth parting with Tiago's expiring contract as well.

[elemento]

Yeah I agree with Chino

We have no reason to get another Center. Considering that we have Splitter starting now, the front-court situation is not as bad as it was before. Splitter/Timmy/Diaw with Baynes getting some backup minutes at the 5 is good enough IMO. But it clears some room to get a young BIG prospect. That's why I think SA should try to grab a guy like Williams using Bonner's semi-expiring + Blair and Neal.

[MaNu4Tres]

Outside of a Blair dump for a 2nd rounder, I don't see Spurs doing much else.

I'd love for them to pursue Luc Mbah a Moute (Blair/Bonner+2nd for Moute?). I don't think Luc would get significant minutes on this years team, but I think there's a place for him in the rotation the next 2 years as the back up 3/4-- if/when Jack is gone.

[Paranoid Pop]

With the Magic reportedly very very motivated to make a move, here's a random idea :

Hedo + Harkless for SJax + Green + Bonner

Magic get cap space to get some nice FA this summer (there's even a crazy Dwight rumor but whatever), the point is that they want to stop sucking quickly. After that move they can still trade Reddick + someone like McRob for Derrick Williams and filler, that would put them in a pretty good situation imo.

Spurs get the much wanted defensive minded high ceiling 3 (or 4) while getting better by subtraction at the 2.

Big problem is the cap space situation, it's basically a move that would make resigning Manu kinda tricky.

That said I like the idea of having a big expiring next year better than betting on free agency fantasies for the current team.

Maybe the same kind of scenario with a bit smaller contract to take back.

[szkorhetz]

With the Magic reportedly very very motivated to make a move, here's a random idea :

Hedo + Harkless for SJax + Green + Bonner

Magic get cap space to get some nice FA this summer (there's even a crazy Dwight rumor but whatever), the point is that they want to stop sucking quickly. After that move they can still trade Reddick + someone like McRob for Derrick Williams and filler, that would put them in a pretty good situation imo.

Spurs get the much wanted defensive minded high ceiling 3 (or 4) while getting better by subtraction at the 2.

Big problem is the cap space situation, it's basically a move that would make resigning Manu kinda tricky.

That said I like the idea of having a big expiring next year better than betting on free agency fantasies for the current team.

Maybe the same kind of scenario with a bit smaller contract to take back.
Hedo? No thanks!

[Paranoid Pop]

I also like the idea of something like Green + Bonner + pick for Prince.

[szkorhetz]

I also like the idea of something like Green + Bonner + pick for Prince.
I like that too. BTW, I don't see any interest in that trade from Detroit.

[Seventyniner]

I also like the idea of something like Green + Bonner + pick for Prince.

You mean Tayshaun Prince? The one playing with a fork in his back the last few seasons? I wouldn't even trade Bonner for him straight up.

Well actually I would (CBA doesn't allow it anyway). But definitely not giving up Green or the pick.

[Chinook]

Well just suffice to say I wouldn't trade Green for any of these players straight up. Not a single one of them improves this team, in my opinion. The Spurs only need another small-forward if they trade Jack.

[Paranoid Pop]

I feel like I'm alone in an alternate universe where Prince is shooting the 3 better than Green this year and that's the only thing Green is kinda good at... On a lot fewer shots but still Prince brings so much more...

[Chinook]

Haha, no. You're just in the universe where playing everyone out of position makes sense in the playoffs.

[Paranoid Pop]

Haha, no. You're just in the universe where playing everyone out of position makes sense in the playoffs.

Isn't the most successful move if the season playing Tiago out of position at PF to get bigger/longer?

That said the stats for KY at Sg don't look excellent and rebounding is one of his big strength so I'm not close minded regarding his position tbh, he might be better at SF, I'm not sure.

[Chinook]

Isn't the most successful move if the season playing Tiago out of position at PF to get bigger/longer?

That said the stats for KY at Sg don't look excellent and rebounding is one of his big strength so I'm not close minded regarding his position tbh, he might be better at SF, I'm not sure.

The most successful thing was getting Kawhi back, which upgraded two positions at once.

[Paranoid Pop]

Another random idea : would you do something like Green-KY+picks for Jennings-Harris?

Jennings would have to play SG a lot, where he'd be pretty undersized... But no more problem about backup PG, we could have a short rotation with 3 great guards. The problem would be SF... Either it becomes Sjax-Harris or they find a way to play Boris some minutes at the 3 if Baybes is good enough right away.

Feels like it puts more importance on SJax's level of play but I would probably do it.

[Strategic]

Would it be legal/possible to trade Matt Bonner and DeJuan Blair to the Boston Celtics for their 2015 second round pick and their 2016 first round pick? Boston could use Blair's rebounding and they might find a use somewhere for Matt. lol Spurs may have to throw in a future consideration?

[Richie]

Would it be legal/possible to trade Matt Bonner and DeJuan Blair to the Boston Celtics for their 2015 second round pick and their 2016 first round pick? Boston could use Blair's rebounding and they might find a use somewhere for Matt. lol Spurs may have to throw in a future consideration?

A first round pick for Blair and Bonner? You can't be serious.

[look_at_g_shred]

Another random idea : would you do something like Green-KY+picks for Jennings-Harris?

Jennings would have to play SG a lot, where he'd be pretty undersized... But no more problem about backup PG, we could have a short rotation with 3 great guards. The problem would be SF... Either it becomes Sjax-Harris or they find a way to play Boris some minutes at the 3 if Baybes is good enough right away.

Feels like it puts more importance on SJax's level of play but I would probably do it.

Hell no!

[Paranoid Pop]

Ilyasova ended any trade talk with his last monster game, lol at people who weren't even interested..........

[elemento]

Yeah that's really random Paranoid. It makes 0 sense for SA.

[Paranoid Pop]

I think I want a SG-SF or a point guard.

Getting rid of Green or/and Sjax would be a plus.

A intriguing option could be Tyreke Evans, who could start at SG and play backup PG, unlike Jennings he has the size, only problem is his shooting is kinda bad for a SG but I have faith in Chip's abilities.

Wouldn't give up too much to get him tho, maybe something like :

Green + Sjax + picks for Evans + Garcia

Garcia's contract will be expiring next year and could be a decent trade chip.

Ticks all the boxes for me, Kings probably wouldn't do it but whatever...

[Paranoid Pop]

I also think Cousins and Sjax need to be in the same locker room, it's too intriguing not to happen.

[FireMicoHalili]

Any way we can swing DeJuan and CoJo for Randolph/Fournier + Quincy Miller?

[Russo21]

Tristan Thompson, Robin Lopez and Emeka Okafor are 3 blokes i hope the Spurs have tabs on.

[FireMicoHalili]

Also, we can trade Bonner if we can absorb Jon Leuer's contract for Ford's trade exception. Leuer has range, can be our stretch four. Maybe Blair + CoJo for Casspi and Leuer? Then we can swing Bonner to any team who needs redheads

[FireMicoHalili]

If Blair is going to be a rental of sorts then this makes sense: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b8wvatq

[FireMicoHalili]

Or a trade to Boston: Green, Neal, Blair, Joseph for Lee, Barbosa, and Melo http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=apyfo35

[ace3g]

general "trade deadline" deals starting to happen:

Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS (https://twitter.com/KBergCBS) League source confirms Grizzlies agree to send Marreese Speights, Josh Selby to Cavs for Jon Leuer. There is a pick involved in deal.

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN)
Deal would potentially save Grizzlies more than $4 million and take them below the luxury tax.

**Update:

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN) Wayne Ellington also going to Cavs as part of deal. Will save Grizzlies $6 million, get them safely under tax line.

[NickiRasgo]

^

[NickiRasgo]

general "trade deadline" deals starting to happen:

Ken Berger ‏@KBergCBS (https://twitter.com/KBergCBS) League source confirms Grizzlies agree to send Marreese Speights, Josh Selby to Cavs for Jon Leuer. There is a pick involved in deal.

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN)
Deal would potentially save Grizzlies more than $4 million and take them below the luxury tax.

**Update:

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN) Wayne Ellington also going to Cavs as part of deal. Will save Grizzlies $6 million, get them safely under tax line.

Oh. I was about to post about the trade. :lol

[Paranoid Pop]

Decent move, trading Randolph would have been mind boggling.

[Bruno]

So, Memphis signed Speights in July and 6 months later they used a first round pick to salary dump him and go under the tax. I know Memphis got a new owner but that's a weird move.

Grizz would be about the same on the court. Vujacic and/or West will replace Ellington and Arthur will play more minutes to compensate Speights departure. If Arthur got injured again, they will be in deep trouble.

For Spurs, consequences will be firstly financial ones. The luxury tax pie will be smaller by about $4M and there will have one more team to take a part of it. All in all, with this deal, Spurs will get about $150K less when the luxury tax money will be redistributed. Even if Spurs plan to stay below the tax, this deal make it less painful to go over it since it lowered the reward to teams below the tax.

Finally, even if I doubt it, maybe this deal will be the first domino and will generate some movements right now.

[Bruno]

293558616307412993

On the paper, Spurs could have what Lakers want with their expiring contracts (Jack, Bonner, Splitter..) but a trade that big between Spurs and Lakers is highly unlikely.

Regardless of Spurs, I hope Pau will land with a good team. He is a tremendous player and, between Bryant throwing him under the bus and D'Antoni atrocious coaching, what happens to him with lakers isn't deserved.

[ace3g]

293558616307412993

On the paper, Spurs could have what Lakers want with their expiring contracts (Jack, Bonner, Splitter..) but a trade that big between Spurs and Lakers is highly unlikely.

Regardless of Spurs, I hope Pau will land with a good team. He is a tremendous player and, between Bryant throwing him under the bus and D'Antoni atrocious coaching, what happens to him with lakers isn't deserved.

Yeah when Woj tweeted that I tweeted back a trade idea to him, lol, but like you said the chances of the Spurs and Lakers making a deal with each other, not very likely.

I don't know what I would do if he did join the Spurs because I have always hated him for "Pau Yell" but he is still a great player.

[ace3g]

Considering some of the small contracts involved in this trade, hopefully it creates a market value for Blair and our other trade assets.

[ace3g]

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN) Much like Rockets-Raptors trade for Kyle Lowry last summer, pick Grizzlies sent Cavs is protected from 1-5 & 15-30.

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN)
To make trade work. the Cavs waived Jeremy Pargo.

[elemento]

That's a good move for CLE

This trade shows us how much of a steal SA got sending Dick Jefferson (sheeding 11m in the process) to GS for a really late 1st round pick.

[Darius Bieber]

I posted this elsewhere and I was redirected to this thread:


Okay what if we did this straight up??


http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b7ans3p


The worst thing that can happen is that we get another great Towel-Waver a la Patrick Mills and that Splitter/Duncan have a big body to work against during Practice.

[Russo21]

New Orleans are tied for last in the West. And they have 2 very good 24 year old bigs in Ryan Anderson and Robin Lopez.

Do you reckon they'd be considering building a contender around Davis, Gordon, Anderson and Lopez, which will take longer then theyd want, if ever, considering they're last and suck bad this year or theyd wanna tank repeatedly the next few years to build around Davis, Vasquez and Gordon with good early draft picks?

We can certaintly help them tank.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bet6dp9


Gives us two bigs that could help us contend for the title this year and next. Gives a strong interior presence and a very good all around big man that can shoot lights out. Gives the Hornets 11 million in expiring contracts and the gaurentee they'll hardly win another game the rest of the season and get some high lottery picks for the next few years.

Then we somehow try and solve our backup SF situation when people start getting waived as per usual after the trade frenzy.

[Mel_13]

New Orleans are tied for last in the West. And they have 2 very good 24 year old bigs in Ryan Anderson and Robin Lopez.

Do you reckon they'd be considering building a contender around Davis, Gordon, Anderson and Lopez, which will take longer then theyd want, if ever, considering they're last and suck bad this year or theyd wanna tank repeatedly the next few years to build around Davis, Vasquez and Gordon with good early draft picks?

We can certaintly help them tank.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bet6dp9


Gives us two bigs that could help us contend for the title this year and next. Gives a strong interior presence and a very good all around big man that can shoot lights out. Gives the Hornets 11 million in expiring contracts and the gaurentee they'll hardly win another game the rest of the season and get some high lottery picks for the next few years.

Then we somehow try and solve our backup SF situation when people start getting waived as per usual after the trade frenzy.

Why people who hate Bonner would want to trade for Anderson never ceases to amaze me. Anderson's dropoff from regular season to the playoffs makes Bonner look clutch. For the Spurs, his contract is absurd for someone who has choked so hard in the playoffs.

[Chinook]

New Orleans are tied for last in the West. And they have 2 very good 24 year old bigs in Ryan Anderson and Robin Lopez.

Do you reckon they'd be considering building a contender around Davis, Gordon, Anderson and Lopez, which will take longer then theyd want, if ever, considering they're last and suck bad this year or theyd wanna tank repeatedly the next few years to build around Davis, Vasquez and Gordon with good early draft picks?

We can certaintly help them tank.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bet6dp9


Gives us two bigs that could help us contend for the title this year and next. Gives a strong interior presence and a very good all around big man that can shoot lights out. Gives the Hornets 11 million in expiring contracts and the gaurentee they'll hardly win another game the rest of the season and get some high lottery picks for the next few years.

Then we somehow try and solve our backup SF situation when people start getting waived as per usual after the trade frenzy.

Trading Davis and Gordon would allows them to tank better, too...

That's not the point though. The Pelicans have no reason to move either player. They're getting great production out of Anderson and Lopez while still managing to lose a bunch of games. They have this whole tanking thing down pat.

I think they'll be a playoff team next year if they can find a good wing in the draft or free agency. Even when Davis is hurt, they look like they can win 45 games.

[elemento]

Realistically the only players SA would put on the table to get an upgrade are Blair, Bonner and maybe Neal depending on the player they're getting back. Add to that our 1st round pick (a late 1st again) and we can try to find the best possible option for that package.

I am on the Derrick Williams bandwagon (I think Bruno, Chino and some other fellows have the same opinion). Any other decent targets for this kind of package ? Maybe Patterson for Blair + Neal.

Any other realistic options ?

[Bruno]

A quick little personal overview of what to watch at the trade deadline regarding Spurs.

The backup PG spot:
Spurs started the season with 4 potential players (Mills, Neal, De Colo and Joseph) to backup Parker. After 45 games, none has really pan out in that role and the backup PG is still a question mark. Is the answer within Spurs roster or should a trade be made to acquire a PG?

The logjam of guards:
Spurs have 7 guards on the roster. That's a lot and it could create issues. Some players might not be happy about their playing time and hurt the team chemistry while the younger players won't get the necessary playing time to develop their game.

Stephen Jackson:
Jack has been good this season. He hasn't shot the ball well and he seems slow on the court. Is it mainly because he is coasting in the Robert Horry mold or is it mainly because he is aging? If Spurs thinks that it's somewhat unlikely that he would be able to raise his level for the playoffs, they need an insurance for him. This insurance could be had without a trade by playing 3 guards lineups but Spurs might want to have another SF on their roster.

Getting another quality big:
It was a big need earlier this season but this need has been lowered a lot with pop starting Splitter and going with a 3 bigmen rotation of Duncan, Splitter and Diaw. To complement that rotation, Pop can use small ball, Bonner, Blair and Baynes. It's now debatable whether or not Spurs end to get another quality big. If they get one, it should likely be a PF who will have a shot at taking away some minutes at Diaw who has been so-so this season.

DeJuan Blair:
Blair has already asked to be traded and has complained about his playing time. This season for the third season in a row, he went from starter to end of the bench player. With the Baynes signing, he will be in an even more complicate situation. A trade seems to be the best solution for both Blair and Spurs.

[CGD]

^ I think the Spurs are pretty set right now to make their playoff push after the Baynes signing, so I wont be disappointed if we stand pat at the deadline.

That said, the Blair-Spurs relationship should end based on the off-court stuff. I'd welcome a 2nd rounder at this point. The guard logjam, while not fatal to the Spurs' chances this year imo is potentially problematic down the line. If Spurs are able to move someone for a back-up SF prospect to eventually replace Sjax, I'd be happy; though, I dont see that player contributing to this year's team.

[pad300]

A quick little personal overview of what to watch at the trade deadline regarding Spurs.

The backup PG spot:
Spurs started the season with 4 potential players (Mills, Neal, De Colo and Joseph) to backup Parker. After 45 games, none has really pan out in that role and the backup PG is still a question mark. Is the answer within Spurs roster or should a trade be made to acquire a PG?

The logjam of guards:
Spurs have 7 guards on the roster. That's a lot and it could create issues. Some players might not be happy about their playing time and hurt the team chemistry while the younger players won't get the necessary playing time to develop their game.

Stephen Jackson:
Jack has been good this season. He hasn't shot the ball well and he seems slow on the court. Is it mainly because he is coasting in the Robert Horry mold or is it mainly because he is aging? If Spurs thinks that it's somewhat unlikely that he would be able to raise his level for the playoffs, they need an insurance for him. This insurance could be had without a trade by playing 3 guards lineups but Spurs might want to have another SF on their roster.

Getting another quality big:
It was a big need earlier this season but this need has been lowered a lot with pop starting Splitter and going with a 3 bigmen rotation of Duncan, Splitter and Diaw. To complement that rotation, Pop can use small ball, Bonner, Blair and Baynes. It's now debatable whether or not Spurs end to get another quality big. If they get one, it should likely be a PF who will have a shot at taking away some minutes at Diaw who has been so-so this season.

DeJuan Blair:
Blair has already asked to be traded and has complained about his playing time. This season for the third season in a row, he went from starter to end of the bench player. With the Baynes signing, he will be in an even more complicate situation. A trade seems to be the best solution for both Blair and Spurs.


The only other thing that I would add to this is next year's FA market. While I won't claim to be a salary cap expert, this is my current take:

If they don't trade, in the summer, they have a salary of $35 (all salaries in this post are in millions) guaranteed (Duncan, Parker, Green, Leonard, De Colo, Joseph). They have Qualifying offers of $4.9 to Splitter and $1.1 to Gary Neal. They have Bonner guaranteed $1 . They have Diaw's Player Option at $4.7 (which based current play, I think he will take up), and Patrick Mills PO at $1.1. They have cap holds of 7.5 Million for Splitter (more than his QO), $19 for Ginobili, $15 for SJax, and $2 for De Juan.

Best case, assume that they take their time about signing splitter (Cap hold 7.5), Dump De Juan, Neal, Bonner, Mills and Sjax's rights, and re-sign Manu to a cheap $7 salary. Add .85 as the cap hold for the 30th place 1st round pick, and they are at $56 committed. The Max salary this season (12/13) was $58, and will be <$60 in 13/14. They will not have cap space to bring in an FA at any number greater than the MLE.
Trading Sjax for someone expensive (say < $11 ) will still leave them space to work under the max salary, assuming Splitter signs for something sane (<$11 say)

Parker $12,500,000
Duncan $10,361,446
Diaw $4,702,500
Bonner (Buyout) $1,000,000
Splitter $11,000,000
Green $3,762,500
Leonard $1,887,840
Nando De Colo $1,463,000
Cory Joseph $1,120,920
Traded for Guy $11,000,000
1st Rounder $850,000
Manu $7,000,000

A total of $66,648,206 would give us 11 bodies, and $4 Million to spend to fill up to 4 slots. We would have the Mini MLE, the vet min, to work with. Assuming the guy we trade for is good, I like this scenario quite a bit better than having the full MLE to spend.

[pad300]

Given what I just posted, my recommendation continues to be take a run at Kirilenko for SJax + Pick(s) this deadline. There are reasons he'd be available (like he can and likely will, opt out this summer), and relatively cheap. He'd fit with Bruno's reasons of a quality big, and can also cover for KL at SF. Finally, it gives us 2 (KL and AK) close to ideal physical profiles for defending Durant and Lebron.

[ABC]

^

I like the idea of getting a player through trade this season and still being able to use exceptions during free agency. It does seem like we might be able to get more talent that way vs. just using the MLE in the off-season. I like Kirilenko too.

But I still think the Spurs will just go with what they have (except for a blair trade maybe) and resign everybody in the off-season. We'll see. Part of the reason I like the Spurs is because so many of their moves are smart (especially compared to some other organizations), so whatever they do, it'll probably be pretty good. :)

[Chinook]

The only other thing that I would add to this is next year's FA market. While I won't claim to be a salary cap expert, this is my current take:

If they don't trade, in the summer, they have a salary of $35 (all salaries in this post are in millions) guaranteed (Duncan, Parker, Green, Leonard, De Colo, Joseph). They have Qualifying offers of $4.9 to Splitter and $1.1 to Gary Neal. They have Bonner guaranteed $1 . They have Diaw's Player Option at $4.7 (which based current play, I think he will take up), and Patrick Mills PO at $1.1. They have cap holds of 7.5 Million for Splitter (more than his QO), $19 for Ginobili, $15 for SJax, and $2 for De Juan.

Best case, assume that they take their time about signing splitter (Cap hold 7.5), Dump De Juan, Neal, Bonner, Mills and Sjax's rights, and re-sign Manu to a cheap $7 salary. Add .85 as the cap hold for the 30th place 1st round pick, and they are at $56 committed. The Max salary this season (12/13) was $58, and will be <$60 in 13/14. They will not have cap space to bring in an FA at any number greater than the MLE.
Trading Sjax for someone expensive (say < $11 ) will still leave them space to work under the max salary, assuming Splitter signs for something sane (<$11 say)

Parker $12,500,000
Duncan $10,361,446
Diaw $4,702,500
Bonner (Buyout) $1,000,000
Splitter $11,000,000
Green $3,762,500
Leonard $1,887,840
Nando De Colo $1,463,000
Cory Joseph $1,120,920
Traded for Guy $11,000,000
1st Rounder $850,000
Manu $7,000,000

A total of $66,648,206 would give us 11 bodies, and $4 Million to spend to fill up to 4 slots. We would have the Mini MLE, the vet min, to work with. Assuming the guy we trade for is good, I like this scenario quite a bit better than having the full MLE to spend.


They'd also have the full MLE to spend if they wanted. The tax is probably be at about $72 Million or so. Even if it's at $70 like this season, the Spurs would get the full MLE but would then be subject to the apron for the rest of the season.

Also, don't forget to add two cap charges (I think they're like 350k each), because those have to be included in salary calculations until a team has 13 or more players on the roster.

[FireMicoHalili]

Does trading for Eric Gordon make sense for you? I think we need a fourth scorer to take the load off TP, and Green isn't that guy http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bckyxhe

[TD 21]

The backup PG spot:
Spurs started the season with 4 potential players (Mills, Neal, De Colo and Joseph) to backup Parker. After 45 games, none has really pan out in that role and the backup PG is still a question mark. Is the answer within Spurs roster or should a trade be made to acquire a PG?

I don't think the answer is necessarily within the Spurs roster, but I also don't see them making an addition.


The logjam of guards:
Spurs have 7 guards on the roster. That's a lot and it could create issues. Some players might not be happy about their playing time and hurt the team chemistry while the younger players won't get the necessary playing time to develop their game.

I don't see this as an issue for the rest of this season and come the off season, one of Neal or Mills will be gone. Either they don't trade Neal and they look to re-sign him, in which case Mills opts out, or they trade Neal and Mills opts in.


Stephen Jackson:
Jack has been good this season. He hasn't shot the ball well and he seems slow on the court. Is it mainly because he is coasting in the Robert Horry mold or is it mainly because he is aging? If Spurs thinks that it's somewhat unlikely that he would be able to raise his level for the playoffs, they need an insurance for him. This insurance could be had without a trade by playing 3 guards lineups but Spurs might want to have another SF on their roster.

Actually, with how poorly Neal has played for much of this season (even before the calf strain), they don't really have Jackson insurance. Neal was that insurance, because he could have soaked up more of the SG minutes, while Green/Ginobili soaked up more of the SF minutes.


Getting another quality big:
It was a big need earlier this season but this need has been lowered a lot with pop starting Splitter and going with a 3 bigmen rotation of Duncan, Splitter and Diaw. To complement that rotation, Pop can use small ball, Bonner, Blair and Baynes. It's now debatable whether or not Spurs end to get another quality big. If they get one, it should likely be a PF who will have a shot at taking away some minutes at Diaw who has been so-so this season.

I agree that the need has been lowered, but it still remains. Let's not forget, Splitter is an injury prone player and he's never played 30 mpg (which he's basically now doing) in a schedule this demanding.

Really, all of this is to say they need another player they can rely on. It doesn't really matter whether it's a PF, SF or PG, they just need another body, because right now, they're extremely reliant on the big three + Splitter. Outside of them, the only ones who can be counted on are one or two of Leonard, Diaw and Green, depending on the game.

[Bruno]

Either they don't trade Neal and they look to re-sign him, in which case Mills opts out

It's far from being a given.
Mills hasn't earned a lot of money in his career and by opting out he will give up a guaranteed $1.1M. Mills has been so-so this season and if he doesn't play better, I'm not sure he would even receive a fully guaranteed min contract offer next summer in free agency.



Actually, with how poorly Neal has played for much of this season (even before the calf strain), they don't really have Jackson insurance.

Well, Pop can go with a 3 wingmen rotation of Green, Ginobili and Leonard in the playoffs.

[TD 21]

It's far from being a given.
Mills hasn't earned a lot of money in his career and by opting out he will give up a guaranteed $1.1M. Mills has been so-so this season and if he doesn't play better, I'm not sure he would even receive a fully guaranteed min contract offer next summer in free agency.

There's a lot of teams who could use a backup PG (Cavaliers, Mavericks, Hornets, Magic, 76ers, Trail Blazers, Wizards), so if Neal isn't traded, why wouldn't Mills opt out? Even if he get's slightly less money, if he has an actual opportunity to play consistent minutes and show he's good enough to be a rotation player, it would lead to more money the following off season. And despite his obvious flaws, both his stats and the eye test suggest he can be (on some run of the mill team), so long as he's paired with a ball handling SG.


Well, Pop can go with a 3 wingmen rotation of Green, Ginobili and Leonard in the playoffs.

He can (though I can't imagine him doing so), but if you buy that, even in the playoffs, Ginobili maxes out as a 32 mpg player, then that leaves 64 minutes to be split between Leonard and Green, who haven't shown they're good enough to warrant that many minutes.

[Paranoid Pop]

Something like Blair+midget for Casspi would be good right now, Sjax doesn't play very well and Blair will take minutes away from Baynes if he's not moved soon, preventing us to see what we have before the playoffs.

[Bruno]

There's a lot of teams who could use a backup PG (Cavaliers, Mavericks, Hornets, Magic, 76ers, Trail Blazers, Wizards), so if Neal isn't traded, why wouldn't Mills opt out?

Maybe because these teams will look after other players than Mills to be their backup PG. Mills is looking this season more like a 3rd stringer than a player able to be a full time backup PG.



He can (though I can't imagine him doing so), but if you buy that, even in the playoffs, Ginobili maxes out as a 32 mpg player, then that leaves 64 minutes to be split between Leonard and Green, who haven't shown they're good enough to warrant that many minutes.

Well, it's sure that if you trash every single player, you will come to the conclusion Spurs need someone. If Jackson sucks, Neal sucks, Green/Leonard aren't good enough to play extended minutes, then Spurs will surely need another SG/SF. But that's a lot of assumptions.

Anyway, I guess we will just to agree at disagreeing. We just don't have the same evaluations of some Spurs players.

[CGD]

I'm torn about weather the spurs should use Jax's expiring right now. He was a great playoff performer last year, but I agree with Simmon's assessment in the ESPN halftime show last night that the Spurs are one piece away. SJax has started slow this year, and I can't tell if hes "Horrying it" or if he's on the decline.

[Paranoid Pop]

I'm torn about weather the spurs should use Jax's expiring right now. He was a great playoff performer last year, but I agree with Simmon's assessment in the ESPN halftime show last night that the Spurs are one piece away. SJax has started slow this year, and I can't tell if hes "Horrying it" or if he's on the decline.

The thing is, what kind of difference maker can SJax bring back?

I'd still be down for McGee, but I don't think Denver is selling let alone salary dumping him...

I'd also be intrigued by Bargnani as a SF, the guy doesn't have the skillset to be a frontline player, he may be too slow but I don't think so, I feel like it's the only way he could succeed... Probably not worth the gamble, especially since he probably would have to start...

Tyreke Evans would be nice as well but we would probably have to take back Salmons and we can't afford to do that.

[FireMicoHalili]

I know some of you have thought of it: Ersan Ilyasova is the perfect Spur. Do you think he's playing well because he wants out? Guy's on a fat contract, but he's making the most out of every dollar. Wonder what it takes to snag him.

[FireMicoHalili]

I'm torn about weather the spurs should use Jax's expiring right now. He was a great playoff performer last year, but I agree with Simmon's assessment in the ESPN halftime show last night that the Spurs are one piece away. SJax has started slow this year, and I can't tell if hes "Horrying it" or if he's on the decline.

Totally agree with you on this one bud, we're always 'one piece away'. I'm thinking a fourth star, one who can legitimately create his own shot and help TP with the heavy lifting. As it stands, we've got a center in Splitter, who's a system guy, and Kawhi Leonard fills in the stat sheet well even without scoring a lot of points. Methinks we have a hole in the shooting guard spot, since Manu's constantly hurt and Green is a streak shooter at best. I heard he lost weight this summer, which is good, but that improvement alone isn't going to help us much coming into the playoffs. He can't create his own shot, and is an above average defender at best. I'd like to see the Spurs make a play for a younger shooting guard, in the likes of Eric Gordon. Or possibly Danny Granger, who can be had for a PF/PG, says Hoopshype. I just don't think Danny Green is the answer at SG.

[BackHome]

SJ is not going to be able to turn it on in the playoffs he is slowing down and unless he is hurt then I don't see him giving us much. I don't think we are one player away maybe two we need another SF and a true backup PG and then we got a solid chance.

[Paranoid Pop]

I know some of you have thought of it: Ersan Ilyasova is the perfect Spur. Do you think he's playing well because he wants out? Guy's on a fat contract, but he's making the most out of every dollar. Wonder what it takes to snag him.

He won't be moved, he's too good tbh.

[TD 21]

Maybe because these teams will look after other players than Mills to be their backup PG. Mills is looking this season more like a 3rd stringer than a player able to be a full time backup PG.

Sure, but with that many openings, there's a pretty good chance he draws interest. He's lightning quick and he's a good three point shooter, which is more than can by said for the likes of Livingston, Ivey, R. Price, A.J. Price, etc. If those guys can be given full time backup PG jobs, I don't see why he couldn't.


Well, it's sure that if you trash every single player, you will come to the conclusion Spurs need someone. If Jackson sucks, Neal sucks, Green/Leonard aren't good enough to play extended minutes, then Spurs will surely need another SG/SF. But that's a lot of assumptions.

Anyway, I guess we will just to agree at disagreeing. We just don't have the same evaluations of some Spurs players.

I didn't "trash every single player" . . . and the stats back up what I said. When I said "all this is to say they need another player they can rely on", I didn't necessarily mean that has to come externally, I was more so getting at them needing a couple of players to play better.

[99 Problems]

Millsy has improved taking care of the rock and his overall defense. Naturally depends on how another coach would want to use him as the back up. Lot of Spurs fans generally underestimate the value of our bench assets. From mid range teams they would be cheap upgrades.

[FireMicoHalili]

Hoopshype said Granger could be had for a good PG and a PF. Maybe try to understand how this deal works: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a9hxgj4 (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bklv5tm)


I also noticed there'd be a glut at SG so I solved that too: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b6s8fpe
one of those deals where other teams get buttscrewed by the Spurs, but I'd do them in a heartbeat. It's got some appeal to the other teams too. Toronto gets a massive salary dump in the offseason, Utah gets a true PG, and Indiana gets what they want.

[Richie]

Hoopshype said Granger could be had for a good PG and a PF. Maybe try to understand how this deal works: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a9hxgj4 (http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bklv5tm)


I also noticed there'd be a glut at SG so I solved that too: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b6s8fpe
one of those deals where other teams get buttscrewed by the Spurs, but I'd do them in a heartbeat. It's got some appeal to the other teams too. Toronto gets a massive salary dump in the offseason, Utah gets a true PG, and Indiana gets what they want.

Please stop. These trades are so ridiculous.

[FireMicoHalili]

Please stop. These trades are so ridiculous.
ok

[ace3g]

With Rondo out, Celtics will most likely look for some guard help through trade.

[szkorhetz]

With Rondo out, Celtics will most likely look for some guard help through trade.
IMHO they will start rebuilding...

[elemento]

Maybe but I am not sure if SA could be a partner.

They have Bradley, Terry, Lee and Barbosa, but none of those guys can run a team. Other then Parker and Manu, we have nobody else to play the point effectively that we could send them in a trade.

In a way, they have a very similar situation with SA. A lot of guard depth, but nobody to run the show consistently when Rondo is out. If Parker gets hurt, SA would be in a very similar situation (we would be fucked tbh).

[Andthentherewas21]

Actually given Nate Robinson was decent in the Celtics system you could probably trade Patty (assuming he doesn't veto) and maybe someone like Blair/Bonner/ect for filler. Question is what would the Spurs get back. There's no chance of getting anyone young on a rookie contract so no Bradley, Sullinger, Fab Melo, ect. Spurs fans would kill Pop if he brought in Jason Terry (plus not sure what hes making but salaries probably wouldn't be close). Duncan and KG don't get along. Pierce is probably a lock to be a celtic for life, plus wouldn't really help at a position of need (not to mention his salary). That leaves you with the under achievers like Barbosa, Lee, and Jeff Green none of which are going to make a difference and 2 of them are overpaid.