Raptors are interested in a package deal that would involve Chris Bosh

[ducks]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=rotowire-arlosoozerntheayut&prov=rotowire&type=fantasy

Carlos Boozer: On the Way Out?


Update: Boozer has been telling confidants that he’s either going to Detroit or New Jersey, the New York Post reports.

Recommendation: Boozer is expected to opt out of his contract with the Jazz by the end of June and will become one of the more sought-after free agents in the market. It was first thought Boozer was interested in going to Miami, but the Pistons are emerging as the likely destination. However, the New York Daily News reports the Raptors are interested in a package deal that would involve Chris Bosh(notes).

[Ice009]

Why would Boozer want to play for Detroit? Is Rasheed coming back?

[lurker23]

Why would the Raptors trade Bosh for a less talented Boozer?

If you are going to trade an all star you need to trade equal value. And how would this trade work? Sign and trade? Or would Boozer not opt out and just spend his contract year in Toronto?

Either way I think Bosh will be out of Canada next year.

If the Raptors are convinced that Bosh is gone in 2010 either way, then they'd rather have Boozer for 6 years than Bosh for 1 year.

Boozer would likely opt out, then use his Bird Rights in a sign and trade to get him an extra year on his contract.

Detroit is the only team other than the Jazz who would be able to pay Boozer max money and also be a contender. However, from what I know of Boozer, if a sign and trade doesn't materialize and the Detroit offer isn't max, I would expect him to sign with a non-contender who can show him the money.

[TheDarkSide.]

soooooo...what does this mean for the spurs?

[TDMVPDPOY]

question wtf would boozer wanna play in toronto anyway if that team is going nowhere with its fkn euro scrubs

money is money, but he could get that money from another team...

[spursfaninla]

nba forum?

[ducks]

I package manu oberto bowen picks
for bosh and see if they take him
heck maybe even mason
hill,tp and duncan would be the only untouchables to get bosh
and who cares if bosh leaves
spurs would have their big shot next year to win title
then if they won bosh would want to stay

[benefactor]

I package manu oberto bowen picks
for bosh and see if they take him
Ahh...the ulterior motive for making the thread is revealed.

[taps]

DWill-Sloan-Bosh sounds scary

[montgod]

DWill-Sloan-Bosh sounds scary

Except for the fact that Bosh chokes in the playoffs just as well as Boozer did.

[johnnyblues]

I package manu oberto bowen picks

I'd do this in a heartbeat.

[samikeyp]

I'd do this in a heartbeat.

Yes and send the Red Rocket back too! :toast

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

[healthy] Manu in the Raptor's system would be scary to go up against. People don't know just how good a scorer Manu is (Of course we do, just not everyone else). If manu were traded for Bosh that would make him option 1 on their offense and Manu could come close to a scoring title.

Don't think he'd get close to a scoring title, but I agree that Manu, as a first option, would generate sick stats.Then more people would appreciate him.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It was only two years ago when Manu put up a ton of nice numbers. If Manu were to get 20 to 30 shots he could average arond 25 to 30 and have several 40 or 50 point games.

True, but his style is such that he wouldn't average too many minutes, even as 1st option, and thus wouldn't average as many shots per game as LBJ, Kobe or Wade. I'd guess his assists and especially steals numbers would be great in the Raptors system.

Anyway though, wouldn't want to see him leave.

[rascal]

True, but his style is such that he wouldn't average too many minutes, even as 1st option, and thus wouldn't average as many shots per game as LBJ, Kobe or Wade. I'd guess his assists and especially steals numbers would be great in the Raptors system.

Anyway though, wouldn't want to see him leave.

Manu is not on the same level talent wise as Kobe, James or Wade. Not even close. He is not consistent enough and has too many off nights to average big numbers as the top scorers in the league.

[ducks]

It was only two years ago when Manu put up a ton of nice numbers. If Manu were to get 20 to 30 shots he could average arond 25 to 30 and have several 40 or 50 point games.

he would last 10 games if he shot 30 shots a game before getting hurt

[rascal]

The Lakers have more of a chance to get Bosh than the Spurs do.
It would be more likely that the Lakers make a trade to land Bosh than the Spurs.

The spurs front office don't make deals that land stars.

[DPG21920]

Manu is not on the same level talent wise as Kobe, James or Wade. Not even close. He is not consistent enough and has too many off nights to average big numbers as the top scorers in the league.

This is correct. Manu is a very talented player, but he has far too many 8 point, 4 point, 10 point nights to be in the same scoring class as Kobe, Wade or Lebron.

His per minute stats are not accurate because he truly could not play that many minutes, whereas Kobe, Wade and Lebron all play closer to their per 48 minute mark.

[rascal]

This is correct. Manu is a very talented player, but he has far too many 8 point, 4 point, 10 point nights to be in the same scoring class as Kobe, Wade or Lebron.

His per minute stats are not accurate because he truly could not play that many minutes, whereas Kobe, Wade and Lebron all play closer to their per 48 minute mark.


I don't pay any attention to per stats, those are not real stats but based on ifs (if a player were to play the entire game). There are backups and end of the bench players with impressive per stats that are meaningless in reality because they won't be effective if given the added minutes.

[DPG21920]

I don't pay any attention to per stats, those are not real stats but based on ifs (if a player were to play the entire game). There are backups and end of the bench players with impressive per stats that are meaningless in reality because they won't be effective if given the added minutes.

True in some cases, not in all. Manu you can clearly tell would never reach his per 48 numbers. Kobe and Lebron and Wade are more accurate because they play closer to 48 minutes and at a consistent high level.

The stats are useful but by no means the only indicator of performance.

[Phenomanul]

The Manu haters don't know how to value efficiency....

:rolleyes

[rascal]

The Manu haters don't know how to value efficiency....

:rolleyes

Your more efficient if you can get on the court and play.

[DPG21920]

In a way I agree, but then again Manu is either the second or third option on nights with the Spurs. When Manu becomes the first option for the Spurs he puts up rediculous numbers. If Kobe were the second to third option he might put up Manu numbers, but he is the star in his system.

Those 8 point nights are most likely nights when Tim was option number 1 (as he almost always is) and Tony was option number 2. As the point guard Tony really has the power to say if Manu is going to have a chance to take over.

If Manu and Wade were to switch places the numbers would switch as well. At least that is my opinion.

Maybe, but I doubt it. You are confusing the cause and effect imo. Manu is the third option and Kobe and Wade and Lebron are the first because of abilities. If those guys were paired with Duncan & Parker instead of Manu, they would not be the third option.

[ducks]

manu might be able to put up 20 conistently if first or second option

I think pop swtiched the big three at times to try to keep them fresher
also depends on matchups

[ducks]

Maybe, but I doubt it. You are confusing the cause and effect imo. Manu is the third option and Kobe and Wade and Lebron are the first because of abilities. If those guys were paired with Duncan & Parker instead of Manu, they would not be the third option.
duncan would be the first option
establish inside first then james

[DPG21920]

Duncan was not the first option offensively this year and Wade, Kobe and Lebron are all better than TP.

[ducks]

Duncan was not the first option offensively this year and Wade, Kobe and Lebron are all better than TP.

there was times duncan was

[DPG21920]

Those times would be few and far between if the Spurs had Lebron or Kobe or Wade. But, back the issue, it would be a gamble to trade Gino for Bosh.

1) if Gino is healthy, I would rather have TP+Gino+TD
2) if Gino is not, I would rather have Bosh
3) it could very well end up being a one year rental with Bosh, so then you would lose Manu and Bosh, especially if Manu was traded and was healthy at the same time
4) I do not think there is any way Toronto listens to the Spurs if the offer is Manu anyways. Manu probably would not want to play in Toronto either, so he would be gone.

[duncan228]

Although Carlos Boozer could be headed to Detroit in a free-agent deal in July, there's a chance he'll end up going to Toronto in a package for Chris Bosh. The Bulls remain interested in Bosh, but Luol Deng would have to be part of a package going to the Raptors. The Raptors, privately, are acknowledging for the first time that they might need to trade Bosh, rather than risk losing him to free agency in 2010.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/2009/05/30/2009-05-30_these_lakers_ready_for_knockout.html?page=1

[ducks]

Those times would be few and far between if the Spurs had Lebron or Kobe or Wade. But, back the issue, it would be a gamble to trade Gino for Bosh.

1) if Gino is healthy, I would rather have TP+Gino+TD
2) if Gino is not, I would rather have Bosh
3) it could very well end up being a one year rental with Bosh, so then you would lose Manu and Bosh, especially if Manu was traded and was healthy at the same time
4) I do not think there is any way Toronto listens to the Spurs if the offer is Manu anyways. Manu probably would not want to play in Toronto either, so he would be gone.

it might be a gamble to lose bosh
but you have a year to prove to him how much you like him
and he would enjoy winning:flag:

[DPG21920]

Spurs would have a major hole a SG.

You have to ask yourself which scenario you like better:

TP+Manu with Mason/Hill as back up+SF+Tim+Bonner/KT/Ian

or

TP+Mason with Hill as back up+SF+Tim+Bosh

Then you have to ask yourself if scenario 2 was better, what would be the odds of Bosh staying and then calculate if the risk of Bosh leaving is worth the gain in scenario 2 over 1.

[DPG21920]

I just think Toronto will pull a Detroit a la Sheed and not trade him unless they get an equal talent. I know people say that no one wants to play in Toronto, but if they have the money, someone will sell out for sure.

So why trade for pennies on the dollar, when you could just wait and see how things shake out and sign a FA who would be better than just a salary dump.

[DPG21920]

Ya, but Fish is not a FA apples-to-apples comparison. A guy like Boozer, if he was offered max money would go to Toronto. Money talks in this league and if Bosh walks and they have his money to sign another FA, they could probably get something better than they could get via trade from a position of weakness.

I agree that Toronto will open to trading Bosh, but only if they get a pretty comparable talent.

[Rogue]

If I were colongelo I would trade Bosh for Josh Howard rather than Carlos Boozer, Boozer won't do anything to the Raptors but holding this team back with is outrageous contract about to be signed this summer. Carlos boozer had better not opt out his contract, other wise he would become the last person for any team to consider signing. Even Josh Howard is more attractive to the Raptors IMHO, and everyone knows how little I evaluate the Smokey.

[21_Blessings]

Why would Boozer want to play for Detroit? Is Rasheed coming back?

Detroit will most likely have enough cap space to go after Wade in 2010. And the only way a player like Wade would consider going to Detroit is if they were good enough to win it. Stuckey/Boozer/Wade core is a monster in a weak Eastern Conference.

[sananspursfan21]

how come this hasn't been redirected to the nba forum yet cuz this really has nothing to do with the spurs

[my2sons]

In a way I agree, but then again Manu is either the second or third option on nights with the Spurs. When Manu becomes the first option for the Spurs he puts up rediculous numbers. If Kobe were the second to third option he might put up Manu numbers, but he is the star in his system.

Those 8 point nights are most likely nights when Tim was option number 1 (as he almost always is) and Tony was option number 2. As the point guard Tony really has the power to say if Manu is going to have a chance to take over.

If Manu and Wade were to switch places the numbers would switch as well. At least that is my opinion.

Why would toronto do a trade involving manu, wouldn't they want parker instead or are they logjammed at the point

[ploto]

Some players don't want to play in Toronto because of high taxes and the very high cost of living. Sometimes the Raptors have to overpay to compensate for this.

[rascal]

Spurs would have a major hole a SG.

You have to ask yourself which scenario you like better:

TP+Manu with Mason/Hill as back up+SF+Tim+Bonner/KT/Ian

or

TP+Mason with Hill as back up+SF+Tim+Bosh

Then you have to ask yourself if scenario 2 was better, what would be the odds of Bosh staying and then calculate if the risk of Bosh leaving is worth the gain in scenario 2 over 1.

I like scenario 2. The spurs are not winning anything with a weak frontline and Manu. Bosh is younger and already better than Manu and he is also a star front line player. The spurs won't be getting anyone that good on the front line.

You get Bosh and find a way to keep him after next year.

[rascal]

The Spurs are interested in making Bosh their 2010 FA. If we could get him a year early in a trade that would certainly be interesting.

Trading for a star is the best way to get him. Relying on a free agent signing is fools gold. The spurs have been down that road before and struck out.

[DPG21920]

I like scenario 2. The spurs are not winning anything with a weak frontline and Manu. Bosh is younger and already better than Manu and he is also a star front line player. The spurs won't be getting anyone that good on the front line.

You get Bosh and find a way to keep him after next year.

Spurs have won with Manu and a weak front line before (Rasho, Elson...). Rolling with Mason and Hill as the only SG's would be terrible. Not to mention, they would probably want hill to go along with Gino in a trade.

I am not saying Bosh would not help, I just do not know if it is better or by how much to risk a possible 1 year rental.

[ducks]

Spurs have won with Manu and a weak front line before (Rasho, Elson...). Rolling with Mason and Hill as the only SG's would be terrible. Not to mention, they would probably want hill to go along with Gino in a trade.

I am not saying Bosh would not help, I just do not know if it is better or by how much to risk a possible 1 year rental.

mason was not terrible tell he tried to play point guard and lost his confidence

[DPG21920]

Where did I say he was terrible? He would be asked to play the Manu role and he would fail. He is a spot up shooter who relies on others to get his shot.

Just because you hate Manu, does not mean Mason could fill that void. At all.

[ducks]

Where did I say he was terrible? He would be asked to play the Manu role and he would fail. He is a spot up shooter who relies on others to get his shot.

Just because you hate Manu, does not mean Mason could fill that void. At all.

yeah those game winners failed
how many did he miss

[ducks]

Where did I say he was terrible? He would be asked to play the Manu role and he would fail. He is a spot up shooter who relies on others to get his shot.

Just because you hate Manu, does not mean Mason could fill that void. At all.

bosh and tp could make those free throws down the stretch not just manu

duncan has made alot also
ps did you realize tp was more clutch then manu was last year

[ducks]

Where did I say he was terrible? He would be asked to play the Manu role and he would fail. He is a spot up shooter who relies on others to get his shot.

Just because you hate Manu, does not mean Mason could fill that void. At all.
hopefully bosh would make up for alot of it
mason would not have to

[DPG21920]

yeah those game winners failed
how many did he miss

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/roger_mason/index.html


bosh and tp could make those free throws down the stretch not just manu

duncan has made alot also
ps did you realize tp was more clutch then manu was last year

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/roger_mason/index.html

Yes I noticed TP playing a lot more. I also noticed TP being clutch and scoring 40 and getting bounced in the first round. Would Bosh have helped? Of course. Would it have been enough to get by the Mavs? I do not know, but it certainly would not have been enough to win a title.


hopefully bosh would make up for alot of it
mason would not have to

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/roger_mason/index.html


To put this in perspective, Mason was sandwiched between Bonner (+3) and Finley (+7) in playoff efficiency.

[ducks]

bosh,tp, duncan
might have gotten the job done

bosh has been great in his 11 playoff games

bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manu

did you also think denver would have given the lakers so much trouble?
did you think houston without ming and mcgrady took them to 7 games?

did you think cavs would not have been in the finals?

if bosh could guard howard
mavs would easily get beat
howard always goes off even if manu is playing

[ducks]

I know mason sucked in the playoffs
he hit late clutch shots (like manu)
how many game winners did manu make this year?

mason's confidence in the playoffs was shot do to trying to play point guard

or and I think manu's stat line looked like alot like mcgreedy and ai this postseason

[ducks]

oh just because you a manu homer
does not mean spurs can not win a title without him
they need three stars and one of the other players to step up in a game
this year they had duncan and tp and no one else

[urunobili]

bosh,tp, duncan
might have gotten the job done

bosh has been great in his 11 playoff games

bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manu

did you also think denver would have given the lakers so much trouble?
did you think houston without ming and mcgrady took them to 7 games?

did you think cavs would not have been in the finals?

if bosh could guard howard
mavs would easily get beat
howard always goes off even if manu is playing


I know mason sucked in the playoffs
he hit late clutch shots (like manu)
how many game winners did manu make this year?

mason's confidence in the playoffs was shot do to trying to play point guard

or and I think manu's stat line looked like alot like mcgreedy and ai this postseason


oh just because you a manu homer
does not mean spurs can not win a title without him
they need three stars and one of the other players to step up in a game
this year they had duncan and tp and no one else

:wgaf::wgaf::wgaf::wgaf::wgaf:

[DPG21920]

oh just because you a manu homer
does not mean spurs can not win a title without him
they need three stars and one of the other players to step up in a game
this year they had duncan and tp and no one else

Please show me where I said this? I simply said look at the scenarios. Mason sucked terribly and if his confidence was shot in the regular season, how do you expect him to perform in the clutch in the playoffs?

I asked is Bosh with the same supporting casts and the options available better than Manu. That in no way insinuated that Manu could not be traded.

Who cares who hits more regular season game winners between Mason and Manu? Who has performed better in their careers in the playoffs? Who is a champion, Mason or Manu?

[ducks]

Please show me where I said this? I simply said look at the scenarios. Mason sucked terribly and if his confidence was shot in the regular season, how do you expect him to perform in the clutch in the playoffs?

I asked is Bosh with the same supporting casts and the options available better than Manu. That in no way insinuated that Manu could not be traded.

Who cares who hits more regular season game winners between Mason and Manu? Who has performed better in their careers in the playoffs? Who is a champion, Mason or Manu?

mason has not not played on a good team tell this year
manu would not have won in any rings had he gone to the clippers instead of the clippers



and horry has more rings then manu does that make horry>manu

[DPG21920]

bosh,tp, duncan
might have gotten the job done

bosh has been great in his 11 playoff games

bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manu

did you also think denver would have given the lakers so much trouble?
did you think houston without ming and mcgrady took them to 7 games?

did you think cavs would not have been in the finals?

if bosh could guard howard
mavs would easily get beat
howard always goes off even if manu is playing

Might have is not doing it. So that is a lot of risks to take for a potential 1 year rental, then you have no Manu and no Bosh and you screwed Duncan and TP.

Yes I thought Denver would give some trouble, but like everyone else (besides you) I knew the Lakers would easily win if they just played at 80% energy level.

Same for Houston and LA. LA coasting was the reason the series was close, not the Rockets.

Cavs were the favorites, but not by that much.

[ducks]

keeping manu is more of a gamble if you can get bosh for him
why he has not been healthy the last 2 playoffs
oh and if spurs do win
keeping bosh is more possible duncan,tp and pop can talk to him all year

[DPG21920]

mason has not not played on a good team tell this year
manu would not have won in any rings had he gone to the clippers instead of the clippers



and horry has more rings then manu does that make horry>manu

No, it is not just rings, it is numbers. Take rings out of the equation, look at Mason's playoff numbers vs Manu's. Same with Horry vs Manu. Then tell me who performs better.

Mason averaged 6.6 points and 1.6 rebounds and 1.8 assists this year in the PO. The year before he averaged 8 points, 1 rebound and 1 assist, while Manu averaged 18 points, 4 rebounds and 4 assist.

Manu did not even play this year in the playoffs and he was closer to Mason's numbers than Mason was to Manu in Mason's best year ever in the PO.

[DPG21920]

keeping manu is more of a gamble if you can get bosh for him
why he has not been healthy the last 2 playoffs
oh and if spurs do win
keeping bosh is more possible duncan,tp and pop can talk to him all year

Manu was healthy and helped get the Spurs to the WCF last year. Healthy Mason took the Spurs no where with essentially the same cast.

[ducks]

Manu was healthy and helped get the Spurs to the WCF last year. Healthy Mason took the Spurs no where with essentially the same cast.

he was hurt in the wcf
mason played decent in regular season especially before allstar break



ps duncan was not 100% this year
manu won before when duncan was healthy
mason did not have a healthy duncan this year in the playoffs
still should have played better then he did though

[DPG21920]

But the point is not to knock Mason to build up Manu. The point is saying that based on the risks of signing Bosh and the actual talent on the team, it would be shifting the problem from the front court to the back court if the Spurs traded Manu for Bosh.

As of right now, the Spurs need a SF and C. The SG position is filled nicely with Manu, Hill and Mason. The Center position has Bonner, KT and Oberto and Ian.

If you get Bosh by trading Manu, you now have a need for a legit starter at SG and still at SF. The difference it that the only depth you have a SG is Hill and Mason.

So you can see although you patch up the C positon with Bosh, you make an even bigger hole at SG because of the lack of depth.

[ducks]

you would be improving the team alot in another area
sure you would lose some with manu
but I think you make up for the upgrade in the other area then what you lose
ofcourse there are no guarantees
but keeping the same team intake is not going to get it done next year

[DPG21920]

he was hurt in the wcf
mason played decent in regular season especially before allstar break



ps duncan was not 100% this year
manu won before when duncan was healthy
mason did not have a healthy duncan this year in the playoffs
still should have played better then he did though

I know he was hurt in the WCF, point is when he was healthy the Spurs made it that far.

Who cares if Mason played well before the all-star break? Spurs need playoff performers. It was not Mason's fault, he was put in a role where he could not succeed. That will be the role he has to play if Manu is gone and you do not get someone of equal talent to replace him.

Duncan averaged 20 points, 8 boards, 3 assist and had an eff rating of +22 in the playoffs.

[Stump]

If the Spurs are working out a trade with Toronto, can't they negotiate a contract extension with Bosh before he is even traded? As I remember, that is exactly what Boston did in the KG trade.

If that's the case, and Bosh is assured to remain a Spur, I think you have to make that trade.

[ducks]

I think hill will be better next year also

[DPG21920]

you would be improving the team alot in another area
sure you would lose some with manu
but I think you make up for the upgrade in the other area then what you lose
ofcourse there are no guarantees
but keeping the same team intake is not going to get it done next year

What adds more value to a team with regards to depth?

Mason + Hill

or

Bonner + Oberto + KT + Ian

Bosh is an excellent player and if you could get him for Manu, that would be the absolute best you could hope for, but there are risks and other factors that make the decision a difficult one.

[DPG21920]

But the point is moot anyways. If everyone here "knows" Manu is always injured and can no longer be effective, then why would the Raptors trade Bosh for him?

Especially when other teams could offer the same cap relief and more talent. Spurs would be in the far back of possible realistic suitors for Bosh.

[Mel_13]

But the point is mute anyways. If everyone here "knows" Manu is always injured and can no longer be effective, then why would the Raptors trade Bosh for him?

Especially when other teams could offer the same cap relief and more talent. Spurs would be in the far back of possible realistic suitors for Bosh.

It is indeed a moot point. If the Raptors put Bosh on the market they will get many offers far better than Manu/filler/Hill/future picks.

But in the fantasy world where the Raptors are willing to trade Bosh for Manu plus other assets, then the Spurs have to make that trade. The potential rewards are too great and the worst case scenario is actually much better than what you have laid out to this point.

[DPG21920]

Thanks for the "moot" correction, stupid rush typing.

How so? Worst case scenario is the Spurs trade Manu (he turns out to be healthy) get Bosh and do not have the money to upgrade the spots of need without going way over the luxury tax.

In that scenario, the Spurs likely are an early out again, Bosh would probably walk, then the Spurs are stuck with no Manu and no Bosh for Duncan's final years.

[Mel_13]

Thanks for the "moot" correction, stupid rush typing.

How so? Worst case scenario is the Spurs trade Manu (he turns out to be healthy) get Bosh and do not have the money to upgrade the spots of need without going way over the luxury tax.

In that scenario, the Spurs likely are an early out again, Bosh would probably walk, then the Spurs are stuck with no Manu and no Bosh for Duncan's final years.


The worst case with Bosh is much better than the worst case with Manu.

With Manu:

1. He has a great season and the Spurs have to overpay to keep a player that could break down at any time

2. He doesn't return to health and the Spurs have nothing but cap space.

With Bosh:

1. If he doesn't want to stay (although I don't know why he would walk away from a max contract) or more the likely possibility that the Spurs don't think he is worth a max extension. In that case, the Spurs still hold his Bird Rights and can sign him to a deal worth 25-30M more than other team. The three big potential fish in the summer of 2010 are James, Wade, and Bosh. Cleveland and Miami are positioning themselves to be able to add a max contract to their existing superstar and the Knicks are are trying to position themselves to sign two max contracts. If the Spurs hold Bosh's Bird rights, they can offer him in a S&T to the highest bidder. From Miami, for example, they could get Beasley, Cook, future picks and a hefty trade exception. To that you add Splitter, who you still have the money for in 2010, and that's a pretty good summer.

So if you could trade Manu plus filler for one year of Bosh, plus Beasley, Cook, future draft picks, a big trade exception and still have enough money to bring Splitter over, do you make that deal?

I think you do, but it will never come to that because Toronto could probably get that same deal from Miami right now. And because they could get a deal like that from Miami or a David Lee/Danilo Gallinari package from the Knicks, there is no way that they take a deal centering on Manu.

[DPG21920]

Yes, Bosh to SA would never happen, unless the Spurs had cap space and could pluck him via FA.

I was speaking from a the worst case side of basketball impact for the next 2-3 years. The holes it would leave by trading Manu combined with the salary ramifications of signing Bosh and the inability to upgrade without significant luxury tax would make the deal tough.

But I agree that with regard to worst case (Manu being hurt and getting no extension or having Bosh for one year) that having more cap space and a better trading chip with Bosh would be better.

[Mel_13]

Yes, Bosh to SA would never happen, unless the Spurs had cap space and could pluck him via FA.

I was speaking from a the worst case side of basketball impact for the next 2-3 years. The holes it would leave by trading Manu combined with the salary ramifications of signing Bosh and the inability to upgrade without significant luxury tax would make the deal tough.

But I agree that with regard to worst case (Manu being hurt and getting no extension or having Bosh for one year) that having more cap space and a better trading chip with Bosh would be better.


Yep, there's basically no scenario where Bosh becomes a Spur. He's going to get his max extension, either from Toronto or from whoever they trade him to. No way he signs a pure FA deal with another club and leaves 25-30M guaranteed dollars on the table when he can get all his money in a S&T. So he stays with Toronto or is traded. If he is traded, the Spurs will never be able to make the best offer.

For me, it would take a player like Bosh for it to make sense to move Manu this summer. With all the other "dream" targets (Jefferson, Carter, Kaman), I think the risks you outlined above are applicable. For a lesser player on a longer contract, I would prefer to hold on to Manu at least until the trade deadline. At that point, the Spurs will know enough about his health and TD's health to decide whether it is best to trade Manu, resign him, or simply let his contract expire.

[z0sa]

I'd 100% surely trade Manu+filler for Bosh. No second thoughts oncesoever.

Tim's - and the Spurs' - time is now, 2010. The offseason following 2010's playoffs can be addressed then. In case you all forgot, we just got bounced by a shitty team in the first round, therefore wasting - even casting an undeserved shadow upon - one of Tim's great years, a true travesty. I won't watch silently while we put Manu's fleeting health in front of Tim and the Spurs' success. If Manu can pull Bosh's value, he should be gone immediately.

[Private Joker]

Is that you John Wayne? Is this me?

[rascal]

No, it is not just rings, it is numbers. Take rings out of the equation, look at Mason's playoff numbers vs Manu's. Same with Horry vs Manu. Then tell me who performs better.

Mason averaged 6.6 points and 1.6 rebounds and 1.8 assists this year in the PO. The year before he averaged 8 points, 1 rebound and 1 assist, while Manu averaged 18 points, 4 rebounds and 4 assist.

Manu did not even play this year in the playoffs and he was closer to Mason's numbers than Mason was to Manu in Mason's best year ever in the PO.


Your also forgetting to compare Bosh with the weak current spurs frontline outside of Duncan. Thats a huge upgrade worth Manu. With Hill as a combo 1-2 and Mason the spurs are fine at the 2.

Don't just look at what you will be trading away but look at what you will be gaining.

[DPG21920]

Your also forgetting to compare Bosh with the weak current spurs frontline outside of Duncan. Thats a huge upgrade worth Manu. With Hill as a combo 1-2 and Mason the spurs are fine at the 2.

Don't just look at what you will be trading away but look at what you will be gaining.

That is exactly what I was doing. I personally think that Bonner+Ian+KT+Tim then having Manu+TP+Hill+Mason is just as good as having Bonner+Ian+KT+Tim+Bosh then having TP+Mason+Hill.

I think that the combo of Bonner/Ian/KT can make do better than Hill/Mason. With Mason/Hill at the two, the Spurs would probably have the worst depth/skill at that position in the league. Mason nor Hill have proven they can handle the ball with any sustainable success, who will back up TP? Who else besides TP could handle the ball in crunch time?

I am not saying Bosh for Manu is a bad trade, I am saying I do not think that does anything to help the Spurs become a contender because you would still need more pieces. If Bosh were to walk, that would make it a bad deal for the Spurs.

Edit: strictly from a basketball standpoint and the depth the Spurs currently have at the position. Also assuming health and the Spurs inability to add more pieces because of the luxury tax.

[spurspokesman]

soooooo...what does this mean for the spurs?
Exactly what I wanna know

[ducks]

Yes, Bosh to SA would never happen, unless the Spurs had cap space and could pluck him via FA.

I was speaking from a the worst case side of basketball impact for the next 2-3 years. The holes it would leave by trading Manu combined with the salary ramifications of signing Bosh and the inability to upgrade without significant luxury tax would make the deal tough.

But I agree that with regard to worst case (Manu being hurt and getting no extension or having Bosh for one year) that having more cap space and a better trading chip with Bosh would be better.

manu is going to cause a hole if he is not traded or hurt or him not resigning with the spurs for cheap


spurs atleast gain something even if they "rent bosh for one year"
if manu is not healthy spurs are in worse shape

[DPG21920]

manu is going to cause a hole if he is not traded or hurt or him not resigning with the spurs for cheap


spurs atleast gain something even if they "rent bosh for one year"
if manu is not healthy spurs are in worse shape

If he does not sign with the Spurs for cheap, that would mean he is healthy. That would not be a hole, that would be the plan.

[Mel_13]

manu is going to cause a hole if he is not traded or hurt or him not resigning with the spurs for cheap


spurs atleast gain something even if they "rent bosh for one year"
if manu is not healthy spurs are in worse shape

I would trade Manu for Bosh for the reasons discussed earlier in this thread.

But the bottom line is Toronto WOULD NOT make this trade. Bryan Colangelo is not Chris Wallace. If the Raptors are looking to trade Bosh, they can get much, much more than Manu. You all may as well be talking about trading for LeBron. It has the same chance of happening. Zero.

[DPG21920]

I would trade Manu for Bosh for the reasons discussed earlier in this thread.

But the bottom line is Toronto WOULD NOT make this trade. Bryan Colangelo is not Chris Wallace. If the Raptors are looking to trade Bosh, they can get much, much more than Manu. You all may as well be talking about trading for LeBron. It has the same chance of happening. Zero.

This. The other stuff was just hypothetical.