Brent VS Devin: The numbers speak for themselves

[whottt]

Here's the numbers:

Average minutes played in wins:
Brent - 21.3
Devin - 17.6

Average minutes played in losses:
Brent - 20.1
Devin - 21.1

Team record when scoring > 10 points:
Brent - 20-2
Devin - 14-6

Team record when scoring < 10 points:
Brent - 31-17
Devin - 36-11

Just for Chump...
Record when playing < 10 minutes:
Brent - 3-3(motherfucker! How hard is it to seeeeeeee)
Devin - 12-2

FG%
2pt FG%:
Brent - 530%(second best on the team to Manu)
Devin - 444%(second worst on the team to Bowen)

3pt FG%:
Brent - 357%
Devin - 372%

Devin seems to be better...until you realize Barry takes over twice the amount of 3 shots that Devin does...Devin has gone stretches of 6 or 7 games this season without even attempting a 3. Barry has made nearly twice as many 3's as Devin.

PPS:
Brent - 1.29(tied with Duncan for third on the team behind Manu and Horry)
Devin - 1.21(only Rasho and Bowen get fewer PPS than Devin out of the regular rotation)

It goes on and on and on...if you look at clutch statistics you see Barry has been the best(or among them) on the team while Devin has been among the worst...Barry is the guy that hit clutch shots this season...Devin is the guy that didn't even stand still to take a foul and win a game.

On defense? Barry has played heavy minutes in our lowest scoring games of the season...

If he can't play D he at least knows how to nutride the hell out of guys who do.

Offense? Our biggest margin of victory this season came when Barry started for Manu.


It's gets even deeper...if you look at how they play against teams we are likely to meet in the playoffs...Barry shoots very well against just about all of those teams(althouh not always from 3), while Devin shoots absolutely awful against some of them(like Phoenix).

It's time to stop playing games with this and realize that this team is an awesome team when Barry is playing well and relied upon.....while Devin playing well seems to not matter at all.

End the competition between them and give Barry about 25 mins per game(but make him a part of the damn offense or else it means nothing)...since we are nearly unbeatable when we do that.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

nice research whottt, how exactly did you find all these stats though im curious?

[whottt]

I found the minutes and PPG stats At ESPN.com.

Check it out for yourself...

Devin (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/profile?statsId=3673)

Brent (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?statsId=3017)

To check out the minutes and PPG stats click on the game logs...

To see how they have performed against the teams we are likely to face in the post season click on season splits.


The clutch stats can be found here:
82 Games (http://www.82games.com/0405SAS.HTM)

There was an even more revealing stat site that Nikos showd me(that is down right now for some reason)...

It had a points per posession stat that measured how many points a team would score if a certain player handled the ball for 100 posessions...

In the heart of his slump...in probably the most miserable season of his career...Brent Barry was #1 on the team in that stat. Meaning, if all the guys on the team got the ball for 100 posessions...we'd score more points with Barry handling the ball than any other player.

And this was when he was slumping...

This guy is an amazingly efficient offensive player...even this year when he's struggling. It's stunning how high he grades out when you get into these really detailed efficiency stats....and the win-loss and PT record reflects it.

The only real question about this guy is how he will perform in the playoffs...but even there he is a career 40% 3 point shooter playing for teams like the Clippers and the Bad Sonics...how many guys can say that?

I am bigger fan of this guy now than I was when I first heard they signed him, in spite of his struggles...I wasn't really that high on him at first.

[polandprzem]

Whottt a statistics.

Like stats- they are not saying everything.

But those gives us a little hmm thinking. Maybe Brent is not so bad.
For me Brent always was an important player. Now --when brown is out- he can show his potential. And we hope to have that Brent to the rest of the season.

Ps. I thinh Whottt is thinking about that "Posterer of the year" award.
Am I wrong ?
Keep up the good writing.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

jeese whottt, that's a lot of time and energy you put into this, i would have just said

1) Devin makes bad mistakes at important times in the game
2) Barry can do more things offensivley, and even as a mediocre defender in a swing position, the rest of the guys on the team can easily cover for him, and do.
3) He costs more money and plays well when given consistant minutes, so Barry should have the consistant time.
4) during the last three games he has out played Manu in less minutes.

[ducks]

the one problem I have with barry was he was passing open shots up
even if they were two point shots
THAT IS HORSESHIT!

[ducks]

Whottt a statistics.

Like stats- they are not saying everything.

But those gives us a little hmm thinking. Maybe Brent is not so bad.
For me Brent always was an important player. Now --when brown is out- he can show his potential. And we hope to have that Brent to the rest of the season.

Ps. I thinh Whottt is thinking about that "Posterer of the year" award.
Am I wrong ?
Keep up the good writing.

he already won one
longest post award goes to him :angel

[ducks]

oh by the way I would hope barry would make better decesions then a guy that has not been in the league as long or has played as many minutes
barry I would bet played atleast twice as many minutes as devin has

[tonillo]

Just having the opportunity to get out and play, you start to feel more comfortable and it‘s been nice to do that,” said Barry recently.

what does it mean???
i think only one person don't understand this--coach pop--

barry >>>>>>>brown

simple barry know the games
pop and brown.......

[kskonn]

jeese whottt, that's a lot of time and energy you put into this, i would have just said

1) Devin makes bad mistakes at important times in the game
2) Barry can do more things offensivley, and even as a mediocre defender in a swing position, the rest of the guys on the team can easily cover for him, and do.
3) He costs more money and plays well when given consistant minutes, so Barry should have the consistant time.
4) during the last three games he has out played Manu in less minutes.


I think Whott has said it that way about 1000 times(literally). Other Posters have said that it was bullshit. Now he has the numbers. The numbers really validate everything he has been stating over the last few months.

Whott, Nice stats-- I was always one of the guys fighting the battle for Barry and Like you I am now a bigger fan. It really makes me hope that Pop keeps giving him the consistent Minutes and gives Devin the spot minutes when he is ready to come back.

[whottt]

he already won one
longest post award goes to him :angel


Don't be hater ducks...I don't force anyone to read them and some people like long posts.

I personally like long posts by other posters, and tend to post less when other people are writing a bunch of them...they are like news articles...I like articles.

[whottt]

jeese whottt, that's a lot of time and energy you put into this, i would have just said

1) Devin makes bad mistakes at important times in the game
2) Barry can do more things offensivley, and even as a mediocre defender in a swing position, the rest of the guys on the team can easily cover for him, and do.
3) He costs more money and plays well when given consistant minutes, so Barry should have the consistant time.
4) during the last three games he has out played Manu in less minutes.

Took me about 20 minutes...most of it I already knew to begin with since this is the same information that lead me to support Barry in the first place( I seriously wasn't that crazy about the signing at first).

And really...the only stat I really needed to post is this one:


Just for Chump...
Record when playing < 10 minutes:
Brent - 3-3(motherfucker! How hard is it to seeeeeeee)
Devin - 12-2

That pretty much says it all right there and actually I am cheating Barry...

One of those wins we got when he played less than 10 mins was the first Detroit game where he came in and hit the clutch Free Throws when everyone else was choking them...we probably lose that game if not for Barry...and truthfully we probably a 2-4 record with him playing less than 10 minutes.

In contrast...when he plays over 25 minutes a game and Duncan is healthy? We have a 19-2 record.

The win-loss record never lies.

[Rummpd]

I have no problem with this and your analysis to skew the minutes to Barry (esp if his confidence continues to improve) but an obvious solution is play both at times as back ups to Manu and Bowen (or on the floor with Manu, Barry, and Brown together) Despite your statistics there is no denying that when healthy Devin is the Spurs primary "energy guy".

[whottt]

Whottt a statistics.

Like stats- they are not saying everything.

But those gives us a little hmm thinking. Maybe Brent is not so bad.
For me Brent always was an important player. Now --when brown is out- he can show his potential. And we hope to have that Brent to the rest of the season.

Ps. I thinh Whottt is thinking about that "Posterer of the year" award.
Am I wrong ?
Keep up the good writing.


I use stats in arguments all the time, a lot of times they help me form my opinion...it's just I usually use them on about the 10th page of a thread that everyone else is tired of reading in the middle of a 2000 word post :fro

But you are right sometimes the stats do lie...but when you use them with other stats and they are backed by the win loss column...you just can't get much more accurate...anything else is unproven speculation.

And nah...you can't try to win a poster of the year award, and there are too many great posters at this site and I am dickhead a lot of the time...besides I really do think NBAdan deserves it if anyone does :)

[ducks]

Don't be hater ducks...I don't force anyone to read them and some people like long posts.

I personally like long posts by other posters, and tend to post less when other people are writing a bunch of them...they are like news articles...I like articles.


I actually like long post to whott
one liners do not mean alot to me
I try to write more but to do not have the time

[Rummpd]

Give SeguSpur and LakerGod Co-Posterior of the Year Award (and no that is no mispelling, I am talking about a gluteus maximus award)

[kskonn]

I have no problem with this and your analysis to skew the minutes to Barry (esp if his confidence continues to improve) but an obvious solution is play both at times as back ups to Manu and Bowen (or on the floor with Manu, Barry, and Brown together) Despite your statistics there is no denying that when healthy Devin is the Spurs primary "energy guy".


I agree that Devin is the Primary energy guy. However that is how he should be used. If the spurs are flat bring him in, if we are letting guys get easy buckets bring him in. for us to have the best chance to win in the playoffs,the majority of the minutes need to go to Brent. Brent is the thing we have that no else has off the Bench. he makes us a different team and a more efficient team. Devin just changes the style of play at his position and does not change the style of the team. He does hustle and inspire other guys to hustle, and don't get me wrong sometimes we need that. But other times his style disrupts the flow of the game and hurts the spurs offense. We need to avoid those times.

[whottt]

I have no problem with this and your analysis to skew the minutes to Barry (esp if his confidence continues to improve) but an obvious solution is play both at times as back ups to Manu and Bowen (or on the floor with Manu, Barry, and Brown together) Despite your statistics there is no denying that when healthy Devin is the Spurs primary "energy guy".

I didn't skew anything...

I don't have personal bias in favor of Barry, I wanted to start Devin in the offseason, he was the only guy that showed up really against LA...

And he is an energy guy..but he also is very inexperienced and does disrupt the Spurs offense and defense almost as much as he does it to our opponents...

You can go look at any stats you want and get them as detailed or generic as you want and the only ones you'll find Devin better at is rebounding and 3 point PCT...and he doesn't have that big of a margin in either of those categories...And the W-L record is totally in Barry's favor.

The only thing I am skewed towards is winning a title this season...and I don't like Devin enough to want to see him get minutes ahead of a guy that helps the team more, even if that guy is shooting poorly from 3 by his own standard and no one elses'.

[whottt]

I think Whott has said it that way about 1000 times(literally). Other Posters have said that it was bullshit. Now he has the numbers. The numbers really validate everything he has been stating over the last few months.

Whott, Nice stats-- I was always one of the guys fighting the battle for Barry and Like you I am now a bigger fan. It really makes me hope that Pop keeps giving him the consistent Minutes and gives Devin the spot minutes when he is ready to come back.


Thank you bro for getting it...and thanks for noticing I had said it about 1000 times lmao...I finally gave up and just busted out the numbers :)

You should post more...you seem to be an observant guy and I would like to see your thoughts on the team more often.

[whottt]

I actually like long post to whott
one liners do not mean alot to me
I try to write more but to do not have the time

ducks, you're perfect just as you are...don't go changin'


Although you might want to lose the Malik/Barry hate before you wind up vbuckless :)

[Spurminator]

It's not that I don't believe Barry is a better player than Brown - he is - but some of those stats present chicken/egg questions.

For instance, are we losing because we're not playing Barry 10 minutes or more... or are we not playing Barry 10 minutes because he is sucking and contributing to our losing the game?

[210born]

HAHAHAHAH-PATHETIC
-my how the tide always turns when a guy has a couple good games, you people on here flip flop when the wind blows. Now when Barry has a couple of bad games the post begging for Devin to come back will mysteriously start to appear :blah . Lets see how long the barry wave will last

[whottt]

I thought about that...I remember most of the games and the details and I bitched about them at the time but in a nutshell...

Barry didn't make FG in the first half of any of those games and he didn't get any PT in the second half except to come in and hit the game saving FT's in the Detroit game...and the pass that Devin choked on in the first Houston game...

I wonder why he started pressing from 3....

In any case...you can't blame him for any of the losses, since he wasn't given an opportunity in the second half,but you can give him partial credit for at least one of the wins.

The games were:
VS Det 6 mins of PT Won 80-77
VS Sea 6 mins of PT Loss 102-96
@ Hou 9 mins of PT Loss 81-80
VS Cle 8 mins of PT Win 116-97
VS Orl 2 mins of PT Win 94-91 <<< this one was the genesis of that stupid bet with Chump
@ Orl 7 mins of PT Loss 93-87

You can't blame Barry for any of those losses...look, none of those losses were by more than 6 points...nearly all of them we blew a lead or stagnated in the 4th quarter...

Remember what Barry just did against Houston in the 4th quarter...he didn't get that chance against those teams...

I wish I could find the stat for what he has shot in the second half of games VS the first half...because I am 99% certain he has shot much better in the second halves of games...He didn't do crap in the first half of the big Phoenix win...those threes he bombed late...he'd only made like 1 shot the entire game before those.


That's another stat in his favor...when he gets a lot of PT we have a huge margin of victory and when he doesn't we barely seem to win except for that Cleveland game.

I don't think there is any denying that early int he season when we looked so good...Barry was averaging 30 mins per game...and he was still confident even though his shot hadn't come around yet...but that's when our passing game was so awesome.

Thiis last slump he was just afraid to do anything because he didn't want to get yanked.

Pop has yanked him for missing shots...Pop yanked him in 1 game for a turn over and it was his only turn over of the game.

The dude has been abused, he damn sure hasn't been coddled. He's been the team bitch.

And I'd say 99% of it is because Pop doesn't like his D...but ironically, statistically our defense doesn't suffer when he is in the game...so he evidently knows how to nutride the greatness of other defensive players.

I think it's more because we don't miss as many shots when he is in the game and there aren't as many turnovers.

[whottt]

HAHAHAHAH-PATHETIC
-my how the tide always turns when a guy has a couple good games, you people on here flip flop when the wind blows. Now when Barry has a couple of bad games the post begging for Devin to come back will mysteriously start to appear :blah . Lets see how long the barry wave will last

You are kidding right?

I wish this board would flip flop after Barry has a good series of games...that aint what's happening...the Barry bashers are stubborn to come around.

[samikeyp]

I think Devin does things that are important that do not appear in a box score...but statistically.....the numbers don't lie. Personally, I am glad the Spurs have them both.

As someone who also likes to crunch numbers....I tip my hat to you, Whottt. Well done.

[whottt]

Thansk Mikey...I like Devin too but it seems as if the Spurs are forcing it to be one of the other, and I gotta go with Barry..they are totally different players though...I really don't see the problem with giving Barry 25 mins and Devin 15 mins...about what they were getting when we got off to the best start in team history.

There's another pretty interesting stat...Devin and Barry seem to play well together...up until this recent surge by Devin...their best games came in the same games...and it makes sense if you remember that most of Devin's best games came in games where Barry started him off with an awesome feed for a dunk...

Devin plays better in an uptempo game too...it's not just Barry. But I do think Devin is more acclimated to the slow offense than Barry...I think he definitely shoots threes in that offense better than Barry...but I don't think our team is better in that offense.

[bigzak25]

i love dev, but if brent keeps playing like this, it's a no brainer who should get the bulk of minutes...but will brent's nuts shrink again when he sees a healthy dev on the bench? i wonder...but i hope not.

[Jimcs50]

Why do we have to choose???

Can we not have two quality backup 2-3's?

[spurster]

Good stats.

I think the whole idea from the beginning of the season was Barry > Brown. We all have been hoping that Barry would snap out of it.

Now to comment about a couple of the stats.



Team record when scoring > 10 points:
Brent - 20-2
Devin - 14-6

...

Devin seems to be better...until you realize Barry takes over twice the amount of 3 shots that Devin does...Devin has gone stretches of 6 or 7 games this season without even attempting a 3. Barry has made nearly twice as many 3's as Devin.


Devin is not supposed to be a big scorer on our team. Devin getting more than 10 points is as likely a sign of trouble as not because that is not his role.

Barry on the other hand is supposed to open the offense by scoring on the perimeter. Barry scoring points means that defenses can't sag on the Spurs. Barry getting more than 10 points is a very good sign because that is his role. It is supposed to be Barry > Brown.

[whottt]

ZAk, I don't think it's because of Devin,...I think Barry is stepping up when he is needed...

It's not like it's easier to step up with Duncan out in the midst of a home court push is it? Isn't that greater pressure...Everyone said Barry needed to step up and he did and now everyone wants to act like it's easier for him now...maybe in some ways it is...but most everyone else on our team would have a problem doing so.

I don't think it's nut shriveling...it might be an ego trip or something but...it's not like's playing afraid or anything...

I think the difference is the way we are running our offense...and I don't think it's that bad an option for the rest of the season...we laid a flat out asskicking on the Rockets in that 4th quarter, and they wanted that game...it only gets better when you add Duncan's d and rebounding to it.

[kskonn]

This boost is what Brent needed. It gave him his confidence back. More importantly it showed Pop that even though he does no knock down his first 2 or 3 shots he can still be an intracle part of the game later. The team and Pop are believing in him more, that will be contagious. Pop will not be as quick to yank him because of a missed shot. Pop will hopefully take the Ginobli approach with him and quit taking the "S Jax approach".

[boutons]

"Why do we have to choose"

Come on, Jim, haven't you heard that the world has been divided by right-wing, "Christian" extremist dumbsh!ts into good vs evil, black vs white, "yer fer us or yer agin us", be a Christian or go to hell?

Inclusive world-views, nuanced analyisis, a humble ability to tolerate apparent contradictions and complexities have all been lost, even demonized. :)

Whott's pro-Brent campaign MUST nuke Devin. THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBILITY. :)

In honor of Johnny C: "If Brent fits, Devin must sit"

[kskonn]

"Why do we have to choose"

Come on, Jim, haven't you heard that the world has been divided by right-wing, "Christian" extremist dumbsh!ts into good vs evil, black vs white, "yer fer us or yer agin us", be a Christian or go to hell?

Inclusive world-views, nuanced analyisis, a humble ability to tolerate apparent contradictions and complexities have all been lost, even demonized. :)

Whott's pro-Brent campaign MUST nuke Devin. THERE IS NO OTHER POSSIBILITY. :)

In honor of Johnny C: "If Brent fits, Devin must sit"


I don't think that is what was being said. It has been stated that the spurs played best when they split minuted Barry 25 Devin 15. I believe Whott also said that the stats showed that Barry and Devin Both had their best games during the same game. This indicates that they play well togethor. The fact is if it comes down to who gives us the best chance to win in the playoffs, I take Brent playing the way he is right now. Brent changes the whole facet of the game. Devin does not, He may change the energy of the game but he does not have the ability to change the entire facet of the game.

[samikeyp]

I really don't see the problem with giving Barry 25 mins and Devin 15 mins...about what they were getting when we got off to the best start in team history.

Amen. If Barry's good play carries into the playoffs, keep him out there. With Duncan back, there will be even more perimeter shot opportunities...if he can knock them down...damn.

[ChumpDumper]

Just for Chump...
Record when playing < 10 minutes:
Brent - 3-3(motherfucker! How hard is it to seeeeeeee)
Devin - 12-2Still sore about losing that bet? Priceless.

Barry played like shit in those games. That's why he didn't get ten minutes.

Motherfucker! How hard is it to seeeeeeeee.

Nobody went into this season thinking Devin would ever beat out Barry. He did. Fortunately for Barry, everyone got injured, and he started playing like a man -- not the huge pussy he was that got him beat out.

Not hard to seeeeeeeeeee at all.

[ChumpDumper]

Funny that you've been reduced to posting things like this to try to prove what everyone thought was self-evident at the beginning of the season. We know you can't blame Barry for his poor play even though that is just as self-evident. All about the agenda.

[whottt]

Chump...Barry has sucked in the first half of a lot of games...so has Devin Brown. soas Tim Duncan, so Michael Jordan, so has virtually every player in history...You cannot blame those losses on Barry. He sucked int he first half of that Phoenix game...evidently Brent Barry is the only player in NBA history not allowed to have a bad first half on a new team. What an asshole you are.

And people wonder why I layng the cold hard facts about Devin Brown out on the table for all to see...look at what the Barry haters say.

The only guy who has pussed out this season is Devin...see the Houston choke fucking job. There is your folding under pressure you complete dumbass.

Now, please shut the fuck up...I have seen you do every thing from wanting to see Ron Mercer play point guard, to saying Hedo>Manu, thinking Charlie Ward was good, just endless shit...

You being stupid does not = me being wrong.

Figure it the fuck out.

[bigzak25]

whottt, i agree with alot of what your saying, and those stats you provided seem pretty clear...it's hard to pinpoint brent's recent improvement...he's seems relaxed enough to hit shots now...cuz of dev's absence or TD's? i dunno, but as long as he keeps it up, that's all that matters.

[ChumpDumper]

You are such a fucking idiot. I was the one saying Brent would improve. Not you. He did. You were wrong. Your stats prove it.

[whottt]

The only thing you defended was yanking him so we could lose.

Those stats have been that way the entire season...he's always had more of a positive impact on the team than Devin. The trend has been there all season.

All you did was defend what the Spurs did that fucked him, and Devin, and our team and our bench up...Some of those things still aren't fixed.


You sucking Pop in no way constitutes you supporting Barry...and the only thing you were right about was what Pop was going to do...and you didn't even go out on a big limb on that.

Get fucked.

[ChumpDumper]

All you did was defend what the Spurs did that fucked him, and Devin, and our team and our bench up...Some of those things still aren't fixed.Bench players are supposed to produce. If one doesn't produce you go with someone who does. Devin could. Now Barry can.
You sucking Pop in no way constitutes you supporting Barry.I have always supported Barry. My expecting him to do more than the shit you tried to pass off as his best game simply proves I believe in him, his abilities and his capacity to play Spurs basketball well more than you, you excuse-making piece of shit.

[whottt]

You're an idiot...you sign a career 40% shooter and then yank him for missing shots in the first half, then don't play him the second half, and then wonder why the fuck he goes into a slump? That's fucking stupid.

And you are wrong...Barry has been a statistically superior player to Devin all season that's why my argument has never changed.

And I will argue about Devin's production as well....he really hasn't out produced Barry...and I bet he's had more scoreless games.

[ChumpDumper]

You're an idiot...you sign a career 40% shooter and then yank him for missing shots in the first halfWhat shots? He wasn't shooting wide open shots. You sign a career 40% shooter and tolerate watching him pass up open shot after open shot. You're an idiot.

Yes, slumps are never the fault of the shooter. Ever. They are so frail and fragile and mentally weak they have to have their hands held and butts patted and their minutes extended every time they pass up a wide open shot and pass it to a guy who ends up taking a worse shot being defended. We know your agenda would never have Brent playing badly or Devin ever playing well.

Devin is a piece of shit and should be waived immediately. Devin has never made any difference as a Spur.

[whottt]

What shots? He wasn't shooting wide open shots. You sign a career 40% shooter and tolerate watching him pass up open shot after open shot. You're an idiot.

The first game he was yanked:

0-4 in 6 minutes. Yanked.

Now exactly how many open shots do you think a guy gets in 6 minutes?

And furthermore...the open shot thing is bull shit anyway, number 1 prove it...I don't think you know what an open shot is, but you are stupid if you think teams just sit there daring Brent Barry to shoot, I gurantee you even now he's draws more attention on the 3 point line than any player on our team...and every player on the team passes open shots on occasion for whatever stupid reason...I saw Bowen do it in the Houston game.

The only guy that takes more 3 pointers per game is Manu.



Yes, slumps are never the fault of the shooter. Ever. They are so frail and fragile and mentally weak they have to have their hands held and butts patted and their minutes extended every time they pass up a wide open shot and pass it to a guy who ends up taking a worse shot being defended.

The guy averages more shots per game than fucking Rasho does and Rasho is a starter...I think he averages almost as many as Bowen does....our starting shooter.

And shooting is confidence...you don't ever yank a shooter for missing shots and that's what Pop did...because he didn't like his defense.

And didn't give him a chance to redeem himself in the second half.



We know your agenda would never have Brent playing badly or Devin ever playing well.

Tell me Einstein...what is my agenda...why do I favor Barry? C'mon tell me...what's my agenda...dumbfuck.

You are the one defending losses...your agenda should be in question.




Devin is a piece of shit and should be waived immediately. Devin has never made any difference as a Spur.

Well to be fucking totally blunt about it...he hasn't except for a loss to Houston..that's the only game deciding play I've ever seen him make...

I've seen him come in, and look good, and put points up in games we eventually lost...but as far as turning the game around?

I've never seen him do it yet...please tell me the game he did it.


Anyone can come in and put up points when the team is going good...anyone can put them up when the team is losing bad...but how many do it in a way that matters? That's the difference.

[ChumpDumper]

And furthermore...the open shot thing is bull shit anyway, number 1 prove it.Prove it? Ask anyone who has seen the Spurs this year. Brent Barry passed up a ton of open shots this year. to deny this is the stupidest thing you have ever done -- and you've done very stupid things.
what is my agenda.Making sure Devin looks like complete shit who has never done anything for the Spurs and Barry is the shining ray of hope for this season who is now succeeding in spite of big bad ol Pop and the most horrible, vile despicable choker in the history of basketball, Devin Brown -- and who will guarantee a championship if we turn Tim Duncan into Raef LaFrentz and just keep him out of the way of our the best guard core ever to play the game of basketball, even though their memebers can't seem to put together decently consistent fourth quarters or practices or seasons.
[Devin] hasn'tThat says it all right there. Waive him. Never let him darken (hmm--maybe that's the reason) the floor again.

[MannyIsGod]

You know what I just realized, the epic Ghost v Marcus battles have been replaced by the newly epic Whottt v Chump battles.

Nice!

[whottt]

Prove it? Ask anyone who has seen the Spurs this year. Brent Barry passed up a ton of open shots this year. to deny this is the stupidest thing you have ever done -- and you've done very stupid things.

You miss the point entirely...when he started getting yanked it was for missing shots and the fact that he can't play D...if he can't hit Pop wasn't going to leave him out there to play shitty D...that would produce a hesitation to shoot...I don't deny Barry has passed open shots...but you fail to acknowledge is that every fucking player on the Spurs passes open shots...

You prove to me that he is passing up more than anyone...to deserve the yanking...that's what you have to prove.

And you are full of shit if you think the people criticizing Barry are criticizing him for passing up open shots...they are criticizing him for daring to shoot under 40% from 3. Including you.






Making sure Devin looks like complete shit who has never done anything for the Spurs

The numbers speak for themselves...if you have some to post in Devin's favor then do so...

I'll give you a hint...don't looking at W-L statistics.



and Barry is the shining ray of hope for this season who is now succeeding in spite of big bad ol Pop

He is succeeding in spite of Pop...you know why? Because Pop doesn't have any other fucking options.

Same as the year we won the title.

Same as the year Steve Kerr actually got some fucking PT on this team when Claxton was injured....

Same as Malik Roses' entire career prior to the arrival of Robert Horry.




and the most horrible, vile despicable choker in the history of basketball, Devin Brown

I wouldn't go that far...but people are acting like Barry is the choker...when Devin is the only one who has choked this season.

I am still waiting for that game he came in and turned around by the way...instead of whining like a little bitch...just give me the fucking game and maybe I'll acknowledge you have a point.

I want to win a title this year...that's why I bitch about losses that are stupid and things I think are hurting the team.

That is my agenda.



-- and who will guarantee a championship if we turn Tim Duncan into Raef LaFrentz and just keep him out of the way of our the best guard core ever to play the game of basketball,

I think we are better as a guard oriented up tempo team...I think even Duncan wants that...you act like Duncan enjoyes doing it all by himself...you are a fucking idiot if you think that.




even though their memebers can't seem to put together decently consistent fourth quarters or practices or seasons.

Maybe that's because they don't get enough opportunities...



Never let him darken (hmm--maybe that's the reason) the floor again.

LMAO there is nothing stupider in this world than accusing a basketball fan of being a racist, it also shows how thoroughly assfucked you are in this debate. You are truly a fucking idiot of the highest order...I do believe if I was a racist I would not watch so much basketball since that would seem to be a conflict of interests...

That's a new level of stupidity even for you.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't deny Barry has passed open shots.You just did.
And you are full of shit if you think the people criticizing Barry are criticizing him for passing up open shots...they are criticizing him for daring to shoot under 40% from 3. Including you.
Show me where I have said he shouldn't take an open shot. Show me. You'll find consistently say that shooters shoot, and a guy with a makeable open shot has to take it. I said that about Malik when everyone was saying "I never want to see Malik take another jumper ever," I say it about Rasho in the key and I said it about Barry. We didn't hire Barry to pass up open shots, and hell yes a shooter -- not just any Spur -- a shooter who was specifically hired to shoot -- who refuses to should should be pulled until he quits playing scared.
He is succeeding in spite of Pop.Yes, big bad ol Pop doesn't want to win.
I think we are better as a guard oriented up tempo teamThen we're wasting money on Duncan. Get rid of him.
Maybe that's because they don't get enough opportunities.I would say Parker has had myriad opportunities to not flame out in fourth quarters and Manu has has ample opportunities to play over 30 minutes without being exhausted. Barry has had many opportunities to hit open shots being the great shooter he is. There are very real limits on our guards that you refuse to acknowledge, that will come to the fore in the playoffs, as will weaknesses in Duncan's game. I never had any problem with mixing up the offense. It's the people who act like championships have been won in spite of Duncan and Pop who know nothing about how things went down.
LMAO there is nothing stupider in this world that accusing a basketball fan of being a racistNah, prejudices are very, very real.

[GoSpurs21]

so unlike Kerr, Barry needs many minutes just to get warmed up (that is when he gets warmed up). Too bad he can't just come in cold and hit shots like Kerr could. I guess we just have to hope that Barry gets better as the playoffs get closer and won't need as much playing time to heat up. Somehow I dont think there will be much available in the playoffs.

It would be nice to get instant offense from Barry, but I guess Barry is who he is.

[whottt]

You just did.

Idiot.


Show me where I have said he shouldn't take an open shot. Show me.

Idiot.



who refuses to should should be pulled until he quits playing scared.

At last a response to something I actually said...

I just showed you the first game he was pulled was a game he took 4 shots in 6 minutes. You prove he was yanked that game for passing up open shots.


Yes, big bad ol Pop doesn't want to win.

Big bad ol Pop fucks up on occasion.



Then we're wasting money on Duncan. Get rid of him.

Idiot.



I would say Parker has had myriad opportunities to not flame out in fourth quarters and Manu has has ample opportunities to play over 30 minutes without being exhausted.

Wow...you'll hate on every one to defend another one of your chokers won't you...you Hedo sucking bitch.



There are very real limits on our guards that you refuse to acknowledge, that will come to the fore in the playoffs, as will weaknesses in Duncan's game. I never had any problem with mixing up the offense. It's the people who act like championships have been won in spite of Duncan and Pop who know nothing about how things went down.

I don't think championships have been won in spite of Duncan...I think the over-reliance on the inside outside offense...specifically in the 4th quarters of games...is predictable, is one of the main reason the Lakers were able to beat us, and dependence upon it is more a refusal to move on from a past era than it is a necessity on this team.




Nah, prejudices are very, very real.
Oh I know prejudices are real...I am heavily prejudiced against idiots in case you haven't noticed...as for the race thing...just shut the fuck up Chump if you can't bring any better points...at least call me something I am...

Just call me a liar like you usually do when you are getting your butt kicked in an argument...it's less offensive.

Still waiting on that game Devin turned around by the way...

[Supergirl]

I agree with Whottt's analysis, but I think the biggest difference between Brown and Barry is experience and basketball intelligence. Brown is still very inexperienced, and makes bad decisions and poor shot selection. This will improve over the next couple years. He's already so much smarter with the ball than he was last year.

I'm glad to see Barry coming into his own.

[ChumpDumper]

I just showed you the first game he was pulled was a game he took 4 shots in 6 minutes.Good shots? Open shots? You simply proved they were shots, which by itself means nothing. I'm sure you will contend he never took a bad shot in his career as well.
You prove he was yanked that game for passing up open shots. lol. Passing up shots wasn't the only way he has sucked this season. I know you live in denial of that as well.
Still waiting on that game Devin turned around by the way.Are you serious?

Barry never played a bad game as a Spur and Devin never contributed to a win as a Spur.

This is truly what you believe.

Idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

I mean the whole point of this thread is Barry > Devin.

Well damn, should that ever have been in question this year?

It was, and Barry is far from blameless for that situation. Deny that.

[kskonn]

Yea, He has passed up open shots. He was afraid of getting yanked out of the game. Pop has been trying to pull the same method he used on Jax. Pull him out of the game, get him pissed off and hope he comes back in and lights it up. That does not work with Barry. He needs to be treated like we treated Manu Last year. Let him play through missed shots and let him get the defense down. His defense has been much improved over the last few games when he has had consistent playing time.

[ChumpDumper]

He was afraid of getting yanked out of the game.Then he's a pussy. It's amazing how little Barry's alleged supporters really think of him.

[kskonn]

I mean the whole point of this thread is Barry > Devin.

Well damn, should that ever have been in question this year?

It was, and Barry is far from blameless for that situation. Deny that.


I thought the Point was that when Barry is on the floor we have a better chance to win. Especially since he is now playing at the level that he should be. I have said it before and will say it again. barry has the ability to come in to a game and control the game, change the entire facet of how that game is being played. Devin does not yet have that ability. He brings energy to the floor and makes his position more athletical, but he does not have the ability to control the flow of the game.

[kskonn]

Then he's a pussy. It's amazing how little Barry's alleged supporters really think of him.


Yea i never said it was the right way for him to think. I was just saying that is how he thinks. It is obvious that he plays better when he is not thinking about getting yanked. I honestly feel Pop will not do that now that he has seen what he can do if he gets longer stretches of playing time. His recent play will make Pop a little more patient in giving him the yank.

[ChumpDumper]

The point is Devin never did any good as a Spur and should be waived.

You simply can't like one Spur without hating another. God forbid you might think everyone can contribute to a championship.

[whottt]

Good shots? Open shots? You simply proved they were shots, which by itself means nothing.
And what the fuck have you proved in this entire argument?

Prove something.



I'm sure you will contend he never took a bad shot in his career as well.lol.

And I am still sure you are an idiot.



Passing up shots wasn't the only way he has sucked this season.

Um...I do believe I said the reason Pop had no patience for him missing shots was because of his defense...a non idiot would realize that is an admission on my part of other flaws in his game.




Barry never played a bad game as a Spur and Devin never contributed to a win as a Spur.

This is truly what you believe.

Idiot.

[whottt]

Then he's a pussy. It's amazing how little Barry's alleged supporters really think of him.

Chump has discovered that every player in the entire NBA are pussies...including Devin Brown.

[kskonn]

The point is Devin never did any good as a Spur and should be waived.

You simply can't like one Spur without hating another. God forbid you might think everyone can contribute to a championship.

The point is that Devin has done good things, last year vs La for example, but barry playing at his normal level has the ability to do much greater things for this team.

[whottt]

I mean the whole point of this thread is Barry > Devin.

Well damn, should that ever have been in question this year?

No, it shouldn't have been...it never was to me...yet it was to the Spurs and most of the board...and it still is...inspite of overwhelming statisitical evidence to the contrary...backed up by wins and losses.




It was, and Barry is far from blameless for that situation. Deny that.

Ummm...Pop made Devin afraid to shoot also with the yankings...Pop is probably the main reason Devin choked in that Houston game and he has even admitted he handled that badly.

[kskonn]

Chump has discovered that every player in the entire NBA are pussies...


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[ChumpDumper]

Prove something.You first. Prove the shots were good open shots and he did everything else right.
And I am still sure you are an idiot.Nonresponsive. I'll take that as an admission you're wrong.
I do believe I said the reason Pop had no patience for him missing shots was because of his defense.So Pop approves of Barry's passing up open shots. Where's your proof of that?
Idiot.Nonresponsive. i'll take that as an admission that I'm correct regarding your opinions of Barry and Devin.

[whottt]

Pop has also said he doesn't just want guys standing around jacking up 3 pointers if they can get a higher PCT shot...

[ChumpDumper]

Pop made Devin afraid to shoot also with the yankings.Where's you're proof of that?
Ummm...Pop made Devin afraid to shoot also with the yankings...Pop is probably the main reason Devin choked in that Houston game and he has even admitted he handled that badly.Ummmm....Devin was supposed to not shoot in that situation. If Pop was supposed to scare him into inactivity, we would've won that game. That's funny.

But I understand your points of view. Players you like are beyond any reproach. They should never work on their games or try to fit into a system. We should never say anything bad about players we like and only reserve criticism for players who might compete with them for playing time, as they are worse than shit and should never see any playing time ever.

Have you said one critical thing about Barry this year without making an excuse for him?

[ChumpDumper]

Pop has also said he doesn't just want guys standing around jacking up 3 pointers if they can get a higher PCT shot.He said this about Barry?

Link.

[whottt]

You first. Prove the shots were good open shots and he did everything else right.

Um...I started this thread out by proving something...something you have yet to be able to refute with anything other than personal attacks and lame accusations of everything from hidden agendas to racism.

You prove something...or at least disprove something...





Nonresponsive. I'll take that as an admission you're wrong.

And that makes you an idiot...you taking it as something other than it is...it is an admission that you are an idiot and nothin else and I will continue to admit it every time you twist.... Or try to put me on the defensive by accusing me of saying something I didn't say. Stop being so fucking weak.




So Pop approves of Barry's passing up open shots. Where's your proof of that?

I don't think Pop approves of any player passing up open shots, but I have heard him say he wants guys getting a higher PCT shot if they can, if it's there...and that isn't why he got yanked originally...it was because he was missing them...and he had been in a mini slump and Pop wasn't going to leave Barry in the game to play weak D if he wasn't hitting shots..and then the problems compounded and our team and bench have never looked as good.

Barry was in a slump on his own...Pop's heavy handedness exacerbated the situation...that is on Pop.



Nonresponsive. i'll take that as an admission that I'm correct regarding your opinions of Barry and Devin.

If you think my opinion of Barry and Devin are that Barry>Devin and Barry playing up to potential is more important to this team this year based on what has happened in the regular season...you sir are correct. If you think I think Devin is more of a choker than Barry, you are also correct...if you think I don't think Devin has stepped up to change the tide of a game from a loss to a win...you are correct once again.

If you think anything else, whether it be I am racist or am saying we should waive Devin Brown...you are an idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

I started this thread out by proving something.And now you just quit? if you can't take your assertions being challenged, don't make them. You said he was benched for missing 4 open shots. You were asked to prove they were open. You then wet your pants.
Stop being so fucking weak. Stop wetting your pants and being unresponsive.
I don't think Pop approves of any player passing up open shots.Then don't act like it.
but that is why he got yanked originally...it was because he was missing them.You still have yet to prove this. No wetting.

I understand you think Devin should never play and never did anything to help the Spurs win a game.

[whottt]

Where's you're proof of that?Ummmm....Devin was supposed to not shoot in that situation. If Pop was supposed to scare him into inactivity, we would've won that game. That's funny.

Pop reamed his ass before that play and Devin played like the green player he is...had nothing to do with shooting...but Devin did take a lot of bad shots in fact he was almost a ball hog until Pop changed him to a tentative shooter...he was just rebounding from that when he got injured.


But I understand your points of view. Players you like are beyond any reproach. They should never work on their games or try to fit into a system.

Chump...did it ever occur to you that the stats I posted at the beginning of this thread are why I think Barry is better?

Losing does that to me...I am sorry.






We should never say anything bad about players we like and only reserve criticism for players who might compete with them for playing time, as they are worse than shit and should never see any playing time ever.

Oh please shut the fuck up Barry has been fucking ripped to shreds on this board and Devin has been given a free pass...I post some informantion backing my stance and you whine and throw a tantrum like a little bitch.

No player on this entire team has been ripped like Barry has so please shut the fuck up.


Have you said one critical thing about Barry this year without making an excuse for him?

Actually I wasn't that crazy about the singing in the first place...look back if you can...it's in the thread where they announced he was going to be signed...

Go find the fucking thread where I was in favor of starting Devin Brown...it was TimP's thread.

The reason it seems like I am such a staunch defender of Barry is because there is such a double fucking standard and high expectation...it makes me want to puke..and on top of that...we fucking win more when Barry gets more minutes, contrary to what is widely believed on the forum...it is not arguable. I like winning...we win more when Barry plays well...we win more when he has a big role...we havwe all season since the first fucking game of the seaon....that's my agenda...I like winning more than stats, I like it more than Devin Brown...I like it more than defense....sue me.

[ChumpDumper]

did it ever occur to you that the stats I posted at the beginning of this thread are why I think Barry is better?No, you never posted anything remotely critical of Barry this entire season without some bullshit excuse blaming everyone but Barry himself.
Oh please shut the fuck up Barry has been fucking ripped to shreds on this board and Devin has been given a free pass.Absolutely not. Kori and LJ are Devin's biggest supporters on this board and they called him out for his failings without making excuses for him. When they do that, it's accepted and no 10-page threads have to be written about any excuses.
Go find the fucking thread where I was in favor of starting Devin Brown.That's because you like Bowen even less this year and can't wait for anyone to score on him to start a new thread. I'm sure if Ray gos off on him we'll hear from you, despite of -- or perhaps because of your prediction.
we win more when Barry plays wellI'll give you that; it's just that you think he has played well ever second of the season he's been on the floor.

I'm glad you codified your agenda about "fighting injustice" for your favorite player on a message board. It helps for others to know your biases.

[whottt]

No, you never posted anything remotely critical of Barry this entire season without some bullshit excuse blaming everyone but Barry himself.

Ahh there could be a little truth to that but that's because the anti Barry vitriol runs so strong...I have however ripped Barry in chat...

Ironically I ripped his ass bad right before he hit those shots in the Phoenix game.

What I refuse to do is say he is a shitty player when he isn't...

There isn't room for me to criticize becaue there is such a dispairity in the reality of his play and the way he is portrayed on this board put me in constant defense mode...

And hey you fucking asshole...if you scroll up a post you will see me saying he doens't play good D...

I just don't buy into the gutless heartless choking pussy rhetoric...I think that's just a little overblown and is easily disproved.


Absolutely not. Kori and LJ are Devin's biggest supporters on this board and they called him out for his failings without making excuses for him.

They are? That's news to me...I have suspected as much(gee I wonder why with all obejectivity on the board) but that is the first confirmation I have gotten of it...which explains why Devin can give a game away and barely get it mentioned...and Barry can hit the biggest shots of the season and still get called a gutless choking wimp..etc..

Devin has a lot of supporters on the board...I am quite aware of it...most like him better than the better player being on the court unfortunately...and that's why I am a Barry defender...because at seasons beginning I did not prefer either player over another.





When they do that, it's accepted and no 10-page threads have to be written about any excuses.

Yeah...Devin and Barry have been ripped about the same amount on this board...go fuck yourself.



That's because you like Bowen even less this year and can't wait for anyone to score on him to start a new thread. I'm sure if Ray gos off on him we'll hear from you, despite of -- or perhaps because of your prediction.

Oh so now I hate Bowen too...



I'll give you that; it's just that you think he has played well ever second of the season he's been on the floor.

Link? I think he helped the team early in the season even when he wasn't shooting well...I don't think he was still doing that in this last slump.


I'm glad you codified your agenda about "fighting injustice" for your favorite player on a message board. It helps for others to know your biases.

Please stop speaking for others and speak for yourself ...You are by far the most obstinate person on this board, speak for yourself....

[kskonn]

I'm glad you codified your agenda about "fighting injustice" for your favorite player on a message board. It helps for others to know your biases.



Sounds like you are doing the same for Devin.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

LOL whotttt is the most hilarious poster ever


I never fell in with the crowd that totally hated brent barry, but i did fall in with those that thought he was not as productive as he should be.

Brent Barry is better than brown based on these stats, but i still expect more than him than just being better than Devin Brown, who is really in his first season of getting "consistent" minutes.

But i still like devin brown. He's a san antonio boy. He looks good, he feels good, from lake view to inglewood.

[ChumpDumper]

Sounds like you are doing the same for Devin.Nope. I criticized Devin when he became completely tentative on offense. I thought mistakes that happened in Houston were part of his development, though. Better for something like that to happen in the regular season. Alot of this argument revolves around expectations. Devin's pretty much played as was expected to this season. For whatever reason, Barry really hasn't until recently.

I'm not even expecting Devin to be back this season, so I'm not quite sure why the anti-Devin lobby is so rabid.

[whottt]

Nope. I criticized Devin when he became completely tentative on offense. I thought mistakes that happened in Houston were part of his development, though.

He's disappeared in crunch time all season...he can play outstanding for most of the game...but in the decisive moments I cannot think of one game he has been the one that made the difference..and if there is one then show me which fucking one it is...maybe I missed it.


B Alot of this argument revolves around expectations. Devin's pretty much played as was expected to this season.

I didn't expect Barry and Devin to be competing for minutes...I think it's stupid...and I think it's fucked with both players heads. I think it fucked with Robert Horry and Malik Rose's heads...all this talent the Spurs coveted they didn't know how to use it...Horry is playing well and he get an DNPCD in one game...same thing happened to Malik.

Having options is bad for a guy with Pop's temper.



For whatever reason, Barry really hasn't until recently.

He didn't shoot well early..we still got off to the best start in team history, a record pace for margin of victory, defense, opp assistrs...with Barry playing 30 minutes a game as the main bench player...and our fucking passing was outstanding. How can you ignore all that?


I'm not even expecting Devin to be back this season, so I'm not quite sure why the anti-Devin lobby is so rabid.

Well then we are probably fucked, because Devin was our energy guy after the Malik trade..he was also the best rebounder in our small ball lineup.. and while he may not have swung games with his scoring in decisive moments, he did contribute to the team...

[ChumpDumper]

He's disappeared in crunch time all season.If all you are arguing is crunch time, then say so. I said his mistakes are part of his development. Half of our lineup can't be counted on to finish games, including two starters, so what's your point?
He didn't shoot well early..we still got off to the best start in team history, a record pace for margin of victory, defense, opp assistrs...with Barry playing 30 minutes a game as the main bench player.You mean 2-0? He only played over 30 minutes off the bench the first two games. You trip yourself up on your own hyperbole. 24.9<>30.
How can you ignore all that?I didn't ignore all that, but boutons and I chose not to ignore the outside factors that contributed mightily to that streak -- namely games missed by our opponents most important players. Everyone was spoiled by our early success and didn't realize how much of it was due to that ill fortune of our opponents. One need only look to the boxscores to verify that.
Well then we are probably fuckedI won't give up on them as easily as you.

[whottt]

If all you are arguing is crunch time, then say so.
Sigh...it's not my fault you need shit hammered into you thick fucking skull.

If team is playing shitty...I've never seen Devin change the outcome...even when he has a big game, and he has come up big in some games that were big for us and the team was not playing well..but I've never seen one of those games change the outcome or stem the tide of shitty play...It's just him out there having fun. It just doesn't seem to impact the team...and he gets uncertain in crunch time...and every stat you look at says he doesn't have an impact on the team, if anything it's negative. Check the stats out...check out the W-L...find something to refute it...anything. This doesn't mean he doesn't help wins so much as it means he doesn't seem to prevent losses.




I said his mistakes are part of his development.
Yeah and so are Nazr's, what's the goal of this fucking season? To be a glorified NBDL team or win a title?


[quite]Half of our lineup can't be counted on to finish games, including two starters, so what's your point?[/quote]

Welcome to the NBA.


You mean 2-0? He only played over 30 minutes off the bench the first two games. You trip yourself up on your own hyperbole.

Whatever...common sense...the point remains the same. He was the main guy off the bench.


24.9<>30.I didn't ignore all that, but boutons and I chose not to ignore the outside factors that contributed mightily to that streak -- namely games missed by our opponents most important players.

You also chose to ignore all the fast breaks Barry keyed and the tone his passing set on the team in general...pay attention because it's coming back now.



Everyone was spoiled by our early success and didn't realize how much of it was due to that ill fortune of our opponents.
Bull shit..don't tell me that, I saw that fast start coming a mile away...



One need only look to the boxscores to verify that.

Wow...that's the biggest dump I've ever seen you take on Pop before...he expected a fast start too.



I won't give up on them as easily as you.

Idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

You also chose to ignore all the fast breaks Barry keyed and the tone his passing set on the team in general...pay attention because it's coming back now.Fastbreaks keyed by the defense and rebounding, which is coming around. Pay attention.
Bull shit..don't tell me that, I saw that fast start coming a mile away...You predicted all the injuries to our opponents?
he expected a fast start too. Link? He called the record fools gold.
Idiot.Nonresponsive. I'll take that as an admission you just wrote off the season in the absence of Devin Brown.

[whottt]

Fastbreaks keyed by the defense and rebounding, which is coming around.
Yeah...nothing improves defense and rebounding like Duncan and Devin being injured. Chump...



You predicted all the injuries to our opponents?Link?

Idiot.


He called the record fools gold.

And his coaching around that time made certain of it.



Nonresponsive. I'll take that as an admission you just wrote off the season in the absence of Devin Brown.

I know a better way you can take it.

[ChumpDumper]

nothing improves defenseWe didn't play defense against Houston?
Idiot.Nonresponsive. You admit the injuries were a huge factor.
And his coaching around that time made certain of it.Opponents' scouting and health made certain of it.
I know a better way you can take it.Compounding nonresponse.

[whottt]

so unlike Kerr, Barry needs many minutes just to get warmed up (that is when he gets warmed up). Too bad he can't just come in cold and hit shots like Kerr could. I guess we just have to hope that Barry gets better as the playoffs get closer and won't need as much playing time to heat up. Somehow I dont think there will be much available in the playoffs.

How did I miss this crap?

You do realize that Kerr sucekd worse than Barry his first year on this team...I know, he had no heart.

It took Kerr 5 years and 2 trades to figure it out on this team,


It would be nice to get instant offense from Barry, but I guess Barry is who he is.

Yeah...he is who he is.

[whottt]

We didn't play defense against Houston?
Idiot.


Nonresponsive. You admit the injuries were a huge factor.
Idiot.


Opponents' scouting and health made certain of it.
Idiot.



Compounding nonresponse.
And Idiot.


Would you please stop doing that so I can stop using that word?

[Spurminator]

"Whottt, you ignorant slut."

[ChumpDumper]

So like you just to give up like that, just like you have on the Spurs when faced with the possiblilty of not having the player you just spent four pages shitting on.

[whottt]

Idiot.

[knownalien]

whott, thank you for this information. it's amazing.

[ChumpDumper]

Case in point.

[whottt]

I..

[Frenchise player]

We seriously need a ChumpDumper-Whottt battle blog, it could be pretty nasty.

[whottt]

You are welcome TRKA...it's nice to have hardsought objective research appreciated and not suspected.

[GoSpurs21]

How did I miss this crap?

You do realize that Kerr sucekd worse than Barry his first year on this team...I know, he had no heart.

It took Kerr 5 years and 2 trades to figure it out on this team,

Yeah...he is who he is.Kerr had 3 championship rings and a history of one of the most accurate 3 pt shooters. Two thing which Barry does not have.

[Que Gee]

We seriously need a ChumpDumper-Whottt battle blog, it could be pretty nasty.

ChumpDumper is garbage...I don't really see much of a battle.

[whottt]

ChumpDumper is garbage...I don't really see much of a battle.

I'll agree that it wouldn't be much of a battle of course :)...but garbage? Ahh Chumps not that bad and has put up with a lot of antagonism from me and still remained relatively civil...Garbage? Nahh...A knucklehead? definitely...

[Cant_Be_Faded]

ChumpDumper is garbage...I don't really see much of a battle.


LOL!!!!

Whottt has his number like Bowen has Carter's

[ChumpDumper]

It's funny that we went 12-3 at the nadir of Barry's playing time around December when he averaged 10.8 minutes and didn't break 20.

Some idiots think that Barry sucks and always will, but other idiots think he's the only reason the Spurs have ever won a game this season.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Some idiots think that Barry sucks and always will, but other idiots think he's the only reason the Spurs have ever won a game this season.


exactly
But they all still cheer him at the SBC center when he hits a shot.

[whottt]

It's funny that we went 12-3 at the nadir of Barry's playing time around December when he averaged 10.8 minutes and didn't break 20.

Some idiots think that Barry sucks and always will, but other idiots think he's the only reason the Spurs have ever won a game this season.

And I think it's funny that we whupped on the Rockets without Duncan and Devin Brown but we lost to them with both of those guys healthy and Barry not getting any PT in the second half. With the immortal Bobby Sura healthy even!

I realize the Rockets 4th best player, Devin Brown, was injured this time around, but still...

And furthermore...just how much of a free pass are you willing to give Devin on that play...it's not like it was a complicated play...sorry but that play bordered on Webberism...and that's a never a good thing. And damn right I took note of it...

I've got no problem with Devin getting minutes, especially when we need hustle...but justifably so, he makes me nervous at the end of close games.

[ChumpDumper]

And I think it's funny that we whupped on the Rockets without Duncan and Devin Brown but we lost to them with both of those guys healthy and Barry not getting any PT in the second half.So waive Duncan? I was talking about 15 games.
And furthermore...just how much of a free pass are you willing to give Devin on that play.As much as I would give a guy getting his first year of real minutes in the NBA. He won't get it again to be sure.

[whottt]

So waive Duncan? I was talking about 15 games.

Let's talk 21 games...as in the 19-2 record the Spurs have with Barry getting over 25 minutes per game and Duncan healthy.

And don't start the waive shit again or I start idiot shit again.



As much as I would give a guy getting his first year of real minutes in the NBA. He won't get it again to be sure.

www.82games.com

[ChumpDumper]

And don't start the waive shit again or I start idiot shit again.Don't try to say the Spurs are better without Duncan.

www.82games.com

That link will confirm this is Devin's first year of real minutes in the NBA?

[whottt]

Don't try to say the Spurs are better without Duncan.


www.82games.com

That link will confirm this is Devin's first year of real minutes in the NBA?

Idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

Your pants are wet again.

Hope you have covers on your furniture.