I want Nick Young and the #5 pick.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Do what needs to be done, FO.

Don't screw the pooch over a dead dog.

Duncan's got 2 great years left, let us not waste them.


Regardless to what Pop thinks, young players are not evil.

RC, do what must be done to get better.


He can retire here later.

[Rover82]

I concur. The seasons are long and Manu isn't 27 anymore

I would love the 5th pick and Nick Young. After that, if there is someone the Spurs want to target mid first round, I'd even flip the 5th pick for another player and a mid round pick.

Another thought would be to trade Manu and Fab for number 5 and Butler.

[silk]

I like Nick young a lot, one of the best we could have here

but the question is, could the spurs be better next year with young and 5 than with manu ?

The answer is no, manu is a beast, and in 2010 we will add a big free agent

I'd love to have young here, but this trade do not make us better in the short term, and in long term, well, we still have hopes for a big fish

We can make all papers players comparisons we want, at the end of the day, manu is the one who will be on the winners side

[ajballer4]

ok it only makes sense to get the 5th if we get butler. The window for another title with duncan is closing therefore we need a star if we want it. the 5th pick wont be a star for a few years later however with butler and the 5th, the team would be amazing

[silk]

Well, butler has a lot less charisma than manu, but if the wizards makes us such a offer, guess we'd have to take it


I still have hopes for RC workin some magic to get us a good player, without tradin' the big 3


Time will tell. Odds are spurs stay put though, they're quite a conservative bunch...

[Ditty]

if we get butler,young and the 5th pick for manu and oberto would be nice

make mason expandable to trade

[silk]

Please, everyone know it would be nice, but can we keep the thread in the realistic realms ?

otherwise, it rubs the trades speculations off all the pleasure

[FromWayDowntown]

Nick Young and the #5 pick for Manu makes virtually no sense to me. Teams win titles because they have exceptional players who get them over that hump. Manu is the sort of exceptional player who makes that kind of a difference. Nick Young is not. And the history of the #5 pick doesn't suggest strongly to me that a guy who'd go 5th in this weak draft is going to bring any assurance of being a great player.

If you've been convinced to give up on winning titles and would just like to see the Spurs make the playoffs for a bunch of years after Duncan retires without any real chance of winning titles (sort of like the Suns have done for years) then by all means, support a trade of Manu. If you're hoping to see the Spurs maintain a hope of winning another title during the Duncan years, then trading Manu for anything other than a star in return makes absolutely no sense.

[silk]

Still, It's not impossible other teams make us what pop calls a "stupid offer" for Manu

That's why, as manu and pop themselves says, it's not impossible for manu to be traded, but won't be for young

[elbamba]

Can we be reasonable for a minute. Why would the WIzards trade their best or second best player, who does not get injured often, and the 5th pick, and Nick Young for Manu and Fab? This is unrealistic. Why not target Kobe and Gasol for Manu and our 3 second round picks?

[tim_duncan_fan]

If we stay put, we are dead. Not acting is what got us in the shape we were in this past season. It would be stupid to go into the season with the same team as last year.

That Mavs series was awfully eye-opening. I knew the time to start making changes was pretty close but I had no idea it was right on the doorstep.

You see, the time to do something like what we're talking about now was the summer of 2008 after the Lakers beat our butts but we stayed with it. This past season we got man-handled by one of the lesser teams in the playoffs. We only won one game, which means that in all practical terms of the word, we didn't even compete.

We need to trade Manu for Nick Young and #5. If for some reason they will give us Caron Butler instead of Nick Young then we do that, but in either case we would receive a good basketball player that wouldn't be totally dependent upon Tony Parker to make a shot for them and the number five we could use to draft a young big guy. Hell, anybody we draft with number five is going to be better than Mahinimi and will indubitably produce more than anything pretending Tiago Splitter is going to come over here ever will.

Just make the trade. In the worst case scenario we make the playoffs and get ousted by some crappy team like Dallas, which is the best case if we stand pat.

[Mel_13]

If we stay put, we are dead. Not acting is what got us in the shape we were in this past season. It would be stupid to go into the season with the same team as last year.

That Mavs series was awfully eye-opening. I knew the time to start making changes was pretty close but I had no idea it was right on the doorstep.

You see, the time to do something like what we're talking about now was the summer of 2008 after the Lakers beat our butts but we stayed with it. This past season we got man-handled by one of the lesser teams in the playoffs. We only won one game, which means that in all practical terms of the word, we didn't even compete.

We need to trade Manu for Nick Young and #5. If for some reason they will give us Caron Butler instead of Nick Young then we do that, but in either case we would receive a good basketball player that wouldn't be totally dependent upon Tony Parker to make a shot for them and the number five we could use to draft a young big guy. Hell, anybody we draft with number five is going to be better than Mahinimi and will indubitably produce more than anything pretending Tiago Splitter is going to come over here ever will.

Just make the trade. In the worst case scenario we make the playoffs and get ousted by some crappy team like Dallas, which is the best case if we stand pat.

Are you actually working under the assumption that such a deal is on the table and is only awaiting approval from the Spurs?

[weebo]

:wgaf: ...what you want

[EricB]

tim duncan fan needs to be rug out into the middle of I 37.

[silk]

The alternative is not between stay'in pat and trading Manu

Last year, we nearly had camby, we have some trade assets, our big three i still put a lot of faith in it, manu will be well rested for the last years of duncan contract

Just hope for the usual, overachieving role players, diamond in the rough, and good surprises in the free agent signings

Team system and big three are the things we must keep on buildin' on

[FromWayDowntown]

we would receive a good basketball player that wouldn't be totally dependent upon Tony Parker to make a shot for them

Are you saying that Ginobili is not a good basketball player or that he is totally dependent upon Tony Parker to make a shot for him?

[elbamba]

With a healthy Manu, we probably beat LA in 2008. You forget that he could hardly walk, he stayed at the top of the key and shot three pointers.

This year we did not have that option for us. That is why we lost. With a healthy Manu we destroy Dallas and we probably beat Denver as well. I don't know that we can beat LA as we are right now.

However, we are closer than farther. We don't need an overhaul, we need 2-3 additions of solid role players.

[meestahmeestah]

Manu was a beast. And he was one of the funnest, most exciting, gutsiest competitors I've seen.

He's done, though. 32 year old guards with a lot of miles on the tires AND he's got 2 bad wheels? The Spurs would be unbelievably, incredibly lucky to get post-ankle surgery Grant Hill type numbers out of Manu in the next couple of years.

Sure, he'll put up a 28 point/3 steals/8 assist game against Indianapolis on a random December night in the next year or two, but we need 15-20 points a game from him in May and June, and that's not going to happen anymore. The 2003-2007 Manu Ginobili is one of my all-time favorite players to watch, but that guy's gone. I root for the Spurs as a team, I don't root for individuals. If trading Manu makes the team better, I'm for that.

Here's something I'll throw out there....you take the number of all-star type seasons Manu has from now until the end of his career. I'll take the number of seasons he plays less than 60 games. I'm pretty sure I'm coming out on top of that one, and it won't even be close.

[FromWayDowntown]

With a healthy Manu, we probably beat LA in 2008.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, but the fact that the Spurs went out so easily with Manu injured in 2008 and couldn't get anything done in 2009 against the Mavs sans Manu is certainly what fuels the Chicken Little side of this debate. Had a healthy Manu aided the Spurs in taking the Lakers to 6 or 7 in 2008, I wonder if the belief that the Spurs' salvation lies in dealing Manu would be as great.

[Mel_13]

Manu was a beast. And he was one of the funnest, most exciting, gutsiest competitors I've seen.

He's done, though. 32 year old guards with a lot of miles on the tires AND he's got 2 bad wheels? The Spurs would be unbelievably, incredibly lucky to get post-ankle surgery Grant Hill type numbers out of Manu in the next couple of years.

Sure, he'll put up a 28 point/3 steals/8 assist game against Indianapolis on a random December night in the next year or two, but we need 15-20 points a game from him in May and June, and that's not going to happen anymore. The 2003-2007 Manu Ginobili is one of my all-time favorite players to watch, but that guy's gone. I root for the Spurs as a team, I don't root for individuals. If trading Manu makes the team better, I'm for that.

Here's something I'll throw out there....you take the number of all-star type seasons Manu has from now until the end of his career. I'll take the number of seasons he plays less than 60 games. I'm pretty sure I'm coming out on top of that one, and it won't even be close.


If he's done what do you expect to get for him?

[silk]

I root for the Spurs as a team, I don't root for individuals. If trading Manu makes the team better, I'm for that.


Me too, but it's precisely the reason why most manu trades proposals should be rebuffed


You have a good point about 32 year old guard with a lot of miles. Yet, I'm quite sure Manu still has at least two solid years in him. Years he should be able to play at a level very few can.

[DMX7]

I would do it but I doubt the Wiz would.

[benefactor]

FWDT needs to restart his "members to be traded to other teams" list.

[Marcus Bryant]

Hells yeah let's make some trades!!!111

[Johnny RIngo]

With a healthy Manu, we probably beat LA in 2008. You forget that he could hardly walk, he stayed at the top of the key and shot three pointers.

Faulty logic. LA wasn't healthy either.


However, we are closer than farther. We don't need an overhaul, we need 2-3 additions of solid role players.

This is I agree with. Spurs never had a chance to compete with garbage like Vaughn, Udoka, Oberto, Bonner, and Finley on our bench. The Spurs FO shot themeselves in the foot the past two years and the team's suffering as a result.

[silk]

Spurs never had a chance to compete with garbage like Vaughn, Udoka, Oberto, Bonner, and Finley on our bench. The Spurs FO shot themeselves in the foot the past two years and the team's suffering as a result.

We're beatin' a dead horse there. Glad you're not mentionning "the one who should not be named".

Constructive thoughts someone ?

[tim_duncan_fan]

tim duncan fan needs to be rug out into the middle of I 37.

Really, for what? Not worshiping Giniobili?

Look, he was a good player. He was in that middle tier of NBA shooting guards for about 3 years. But he's old and injured now and isn't going to come back and be an all-star.

[ffadicted]

Anyone in this thread who has agreed to just Nick Young and #5 for Manu is a complete idiot and should now proceed to ban themselves.

Thanks

[rascal]

If we stay put, we are dead. Not acting is what got us in the shape we were in this past season. It would be stupid to go into the season with the same team as last year.

That Mavs series was awfully eye-opening. I knew the time to start making changes was pretty close but I had no idea it was right on the doorstep.

You see, the time to do something like what we're talking about now was the summer of 2008 after the Lakers beat our butts but we stayed with it. This past season we got man-handled by one of the lesser teams in the playoffs. We only won one game, which means that in all practical terms of the word, we didn't even compete.

We need to trade Manu for Nick Young and #5. If for some reason they will give us Caron Butler instead of Nick Young then we do that, but in either case we would receive a good basketball player that wouldn't be totally dependent upon Tony Parker to make a shot for them and the number five we could use to draft a young big guy. Hell, anybody we draft with number five is going to be better than Mahinimi and will indubitably produce more than anything pretending Tiago Splitter is going to come over here ever will.

Just make the trade. In the worst case scenario we make the playoffs and get ousted by some crappy team like Dallas, which is the best case if we stand pat.

Agree. Finally someone thinking with logic instead of letting emotion and past memories cloud logic.

[silk]

I think we can also use logic to support the side "don't trade manu you stupid" , even if emotion rules this side of the Second Global Spurs talk war :ihit ( the first one being Tony vs Manu) ^^


Too lazy to search, but what side are TimVp and kori on ? they're usually spot on

[Bukefal]

if we stay put, we are dead. Not acting is what got us in the shape we were in this past season. It would be stupid to go into the season with the same team as last year.

That mavs series was awfully eye-opening. I knew the time to start making changes was pretty close but i had no idea it was right on the doorstep.

You see, the time to do something like what we're talking about now was the summer of 2008 after the lakers beat our butts but we stayed with it. This past season we got man-handled by one of the lesser teams in the playoffs. We only won one game, which means that in all practical terms of the word, we didn't even compete.

We need to trade manu for nick young and #5. If for some reason they will give us caron butler instead of nick young then we do that, but in either case we would receive a good basketball player that wouldn't be totally dependent upon tony parker to make a shot for them and the number five we could use to draft a young big guy. Hell, anybody we draft with number five is going to be better than mahinimi and will indubitably produce more than anything pretending tiago splitter is going to come over here ever will.

Just make the trade. In the worst case scenario we make the playoffs and get ousted by some crappy team like dallas, which is the best case if we stand pat.

+1

[Bukefal]

Really, for what? Not worshiping Giniobili?

Look, he was a good player. He was in that middle tier of NBA shooting guards for about 3 years. But he's old and injured now and isn't going to come back and be an all-star.

:toast

[FromWayDowntown]

If he's done what do you expect to get for him?

Indeed. This is the part of the argument that begins to make absolutely no sense to me.

Suppose, for those of you who are of a mind that Manu is done and that the Spurs should deal him, that the best deal the Spurs can get is one that involves the Lakers sending Lamar Odom (via a sign-and-trade) and something else to San Antonio for Manu. Are those of you who are cool with trading Manu down with trading him to LA?

[rayray2k8]

Good for you!!

[tim_duncan_fan]

Indeed. This is the part of the argument that begins to make absolutely no sense to me.

Suppose, for those of you who are of a mind that Manu is done and that the Spurs should deal him, that the best deal the Spurs can get is one that involves the Lakers sending Lamar Odom (via a sign-and-trade) and something else to San Antonio for Manu. Are those of you who are cool with trading Manu down with trading him to LA?

The thing about Odom is that he can be really shaky in the playoffs.

[silk]

Young and 5 assures us more quantity of play-off years

Manu assures us more quality on, supposedly, less play-off years

I take the quality, i want the championship, not just bein in the play-off for bein' in the play-off

I hope Pop thinks the same, like Julius Caesar "better to be 1st in some muddy town with a muddy river than 2nd in Roma "

[FromWayDowntown]

The thing about Odom is that he can be really shaky in the playoffs.

And those concerns don't exist with Nick Young or whoever might be the #5 pick?

Look, I'm talking about a deal for what the Spurs really need. We know that the Spurs need a big man who can rebound and defend athletic bigs and an wing who can shoot the ball, right? Odom is definitely a long big who can rebound and defend athletic players. Supposing the deal the Lakers offered the Spurs was a sign-and-trade with Odom with Vujacic and a pick for Manu, Oberto, and Mahinmi.

Do you take that deal and allow Manu to go to LA?

[silk]

You make houston better than you, then you make laker's virtually unbeatable for you ?


Great trade , it would certainly change for the worst the spurs FO reputation

[TD4THREE]

Manu assures us more quality on, supposedly, less play-off years

I take the quality, i want the championship, not just bein in the play-off for bein' in the play-off

That's if Manu returns to form, which after coming off severe injuries to both ankles at his age is a big if. If next year is just a repeat of last year for him, then where does that leave the spurs? Worse than where we are now, and then they're still going to have to make the descision on whether or not to extend him.

[silk]

It's a risk worth taking

If he breaks down, he's a free agent, so we can just use money to get a player who will have more of an impact than young and 5

[SenorSpur]

Nick Young? Good, young player - no question.

I'd rather the Spurs, keep Manu, trade up into the middle or end of the 1st round and draft Sam Young.

Also, because this is such a weak draft, there is no need for the Spurs to acquire the 5th pick.

[elbamba]

Faulty logic. LA wasn't healthy either.


Bynum being out would be like us losing Finley to injury. A noticeable piece but ultimately irrelevant.

If they were missing Gasol/Kobe then it would have been equal.

[DMX7]

This trade would also give us 5-6 million of extra cap space

[Mel_13]

This trade would also give us 5-6 million of extra cap space

If you're talking about 2010, it would reduce cap space by at least 6M.

If you're talking about 2009, it will add at least 1M-3M to the payroll and make it more difficult to use the MLE.

[DMX7]

If you're talking about 2009, it will add at least 1M-3M to the payroll and make it more difficult to use the MLE.

Explain that to me.

In 2009, Nick Young will make $1.7 million & the #5 Draft Pick will make $2.7 million. Ginobili will make $10.8 million in 2009.

Do the math, it saves us $6.4 million.

[FromWayDowntown]

Explain that to me.

In 2009, Nick Young will make $1.7 million & the #5 Draft Pick will make $2.7 million. Ginobili will make $10.8 million in 2009.

Do the math, it saves us $6.4 million.

Unless Washington is under the cap for 2009-10 (which would absolutely shock me with Arenas, Jamison, and Butler under contract), they'll have to send back more salaries than just Young and the #2 pick -- they'll have to match what they take in, more or less.

[Mel_13]

Explain that to me.

In 2009, Nick Young will make $1.7 million & the #5 Draft Pick will make $2.7 million. Ginobili will make $10.8 million in 2009.

Do the math, it saves us $6.4 million.

They will have to send around 7M in additional contracts to make the trade work under the CBA.

[DMX7]

They will have to send around 7M in additional contracts to make the trade work under the CBA.

Ok, then the money being exchanged is even not adding 1-3M. We're getting at least 3 players too so that means we have more to spend on the remaining players.

[Spurtacus]

One player (the #5 pick) doesn't mean an instant championship. It WOULD be nice to get some youth into the lineup though.

[Mel_13]

Ok, then the money being exchanged is even not adding 1-3M. We're getting at least 3 players too so that means we have more to spend on the remaining players.

Its more complicated than that. The 7M is on the low end of what can be sent back in addition to Young, it could be as much as 11.7M. The players and the size of the contracts would factor into the deal, but the CBA allows a fairly wide range in a deal like this.

You will be better able to comment on such things by familiarizing yourself with the information presented here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#94

[exstatic]

Really, for what? Not worshiping Giniobili?

Look, he was a good player. He was in that middle tier of NBA shooting guards for about 3 years. But he's old and injured now and isn't going to come back and be an all-star.

You really think of Ginobili as "middle tier"? No wonder you want to trade his ass.

[DMX7]

Its more complicated than that. The 7M is on the low end of what can be sent back in addition to Young, it could be as much as 11.7M. The players and the size of the contracts would factor into the deal, but the CBA allows a fairly wide range in a deal like this.

You will be better able to comment on such things by familiarizing yourself with the information presented here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#94

You should probably explain your assumptions then... especially if the difference could go either way.

[objective]

Its more complicated than that. The 7M is on the low end of what can be sent back in addition to Young, it could be as much as 11.7M. The players and the size of the contracts would factor into the deal, but the CBA allows a fairly wide range in a deal like this.

You will be better able to comment on such things by familiarizing yourself with the information presented here:

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#94

exactly

[MarHill]

Agree. Finally someone thinking with logic instead of letting emotion and past memories cloud logic.

No actually...he is not thinking with logic.

Let's see...the Spurs had the 2nd best record in the league most of the year. They won 54 games and won the toughest division in basketball!! Hmmm....

The year before they made it to WCF and won 56 games!! I could see if the Spurs had mediocre records for the last two seasons....then you make an argument somewhat!!!

The key is health and when they are healthy...the Spurs are still one of 5 best teams in the league.

Furthermore....Manu creates a dynamic that makes the Spurs a championship caliber ball club. There are very few players who have that quality (Jordan and Pippen, Shaq and Kobe, Pierce, Garnett, and Allen, and now Kobe, Pau, and Odom) and Manu creates that dynamic with Tim and Tony.

It seems some Spurs fans forget that....those facts. Not emotion or sentiment or wishful thinking.

To trade for a young player like Nick Young....who hasn't even smelt the playoffs and has never made big shots when it counted or got a key steal or block or dominate a quarter and go toe to toe with Kobe or Wade or Lebron in a game. (Manu has done all of those things) And getting the number 5 pick....is no guarantee either.

It is absolutely mind-boggling and utterly ridiculous for the Spurs to make that trade and for some Spurs fans who are ready discard Manu...I just shake my head in total disbelief!!

Unbelievable!!!!! :bang

[MarHill]

Really, for what? Not worshiping Giniobili?

Look, he was a good player. He was in that middle tier of NBA shooting guards for about 3 years. But he's old and injured now and isn't going to come back and be an all-star.


Middle tier shooting guards....what planet are you on????? :wow

Outside of Kobe and Wade.....Manu is one of the best shooting guards in the league.

When healthy (that's your only argument)......he gives the Spurs a dynamic to be a championship caliber ballclub!! There are very few players in the league like that.

How do you know....he isn't going to come back. That's pure spectulation on your part!!!

Sheesh!!!!

[LionZion]

Really, for what? Not worshiping Giniobili?

Look, he was a good player. He was in that middle tier of NBA shooting guards for about 3 years. But he's old and injured now and isn't going to come back and be an all-star.

Regarding the bolded part, you should watch more NBA. More teams, more players from past and recent years. None of the Big 3 are in the middle tier of anything lol. Not in the playoffs.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I don't mean to say he was just average.

I'm just saying he's not even with Kobe and Wade.

[MarHill]

I don't mean to say he was just average.

I'm just saying he's not even with Kobe and Wade.

Ok...I can accept that!

But, outside of Kobe and Wade...those are the only 2 shooting guards I would take over Manu!

His energy, competitiveness, balls, and desire are unmatched except Kobe. Even Kobe has acknowledge that publicly!!

No way....Manu stays!!!

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't mean to say he was just average.

I'm just saying he's not even with Kobe and Wade.

What do you think of my hypotheticals involving a trade to LA that nets Odom, Vujacic, and a pick. Deal addresses two significant needs for the Spurs. Are you making it?

[TMTTRIO]

What do you think of my hypotheticals involving a trade to LA that nets Odom, Vujacic, and a pick. Deal addresses two significant needs for the Spurs. Are you making it?

If Manu gets healthy like I think he will that would be crazy for now anyways. Can you imagine Manu teaming up with Kobe and them having two of the most competitive guys in the league and the Lakers adding another closer to play for them.

[tim_duncan_fan]

What do you think of my hypotheticals involving a trade to LA that nets Odom, Vujacic, and a pick. Deal addresses two significant needs for the Spurs. Are you making it?

I think you do make it.

[ElNono]

I think you do make it.

A closing game lineup of: Ginobili, Bryant, Ariza, Gasol and Bynum? How do you beat that?

Who is going to play 2 guard for us? Sasha or Mason, neither of which can create their own shot?

[tim_duncan_fan]

A closing game lineup of: Ginobili, Bryant, Ariza, Gasol and Bynum? How do you beat that?

Who is going to play 2 guard for us? Sasha or Mason, neither of which can create their own shot?

Odom is our third option.

Mason gets to do what he does best: Play off the main guys, make the open jumpers and occasionally get hot and score 15-20.

[ElNono]

Odom is our third option.

Good luck with that...


Mason gets to do what he does best: Play off the main guys, make the open jumpers and occasionally get hot and score 15-20.

Just like in the series with Dallas? That worked out real well...

[daslicer]

I honestly believe Manu is done and he will never be the player he once was. The guys ankles are fucked up and usually players don't comeback from those type of injuries a hundred percent. Manu without his mobility is not a game changer. This is probably the best the spurs can get for him so they need to do it. I don't believe in this 2010 crap that the spurs will get some bigtime FA like Lebron,Wade,Bosh, etc. Realistically they will get some very good role players, a borderline all-star player but nothing more.

[ElNono]

The guys ankles are fucked up and usually players don't comeback from those type of injuries a hundred percent.

From a fracture? I gather you're not a doctor?

[ducks]

From a fracture? I gather you're not a doctor?

are you?

[daslicer]

From a fracture? I gather you're not a doctor?

I loved Manu when he was healthy in his prime but those days are gone. I just don't see him comming back to what he once was. He's officialy injury prone the guy has been out the last 2 years with some major injuries. We keep on playing this damn card every year that if the spurs had a healthy Manu things would have been different. I just don't believe in playing this card over and over again. Historically there hasn't been many guards who put up great numbers after the age of 32 and I don't think Manu is going to be any different. I rather have 2 young players who can contribute instead of having to rely on one guy who is consistently hurt. Manu's body is beyond repair the guy has had to many hits on it to play a full 82 games without getting some sort of injury.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I'd like to see more opinions about the fact Manu makes tons of money for the franchise. This is probably one of the reasons the FO has trouble with the idea of letting him go. In today's sport when you get a player and you are going to pay him a big salary you are also thinking not just how this player is going to get you a ring but how much money are you going to make to offset the investment and to make money on top of it. They are all investments. We also need to include this in the discussion for it to have any sense at all.

[ElNono]

are you?

Nope.

[tim_duncan_fan]

So you guys are thinking we are going to get this all-star shooting guard back when Manu returns.

Is that correct?

[sabar]

We need to trade some fans.

[TMTTRIO]

So you guys are thinking we are going to get this all-star shooting guard back when Manu returns.

Is that correct?

Well your sure not going to get an AS either if you trade him now since his trade value is low. Washington has better offers than Manu.

[ElNono]

So you guys are thinking we are going to get this all-star shooting guard back when Manu returns.

Is that correct?

Personally, not necessarily All-Star... I'll settle for a healthy 6th man of the year.

[sabar]

I can't find any data showing that an ankle impingement or ankle fracture leads to an injury-plagued career in a majority of cases.

Looking at data on MCL/ACL tears (generally, much more severe), 80% of players finish their careers and stay at 80% of their previous level if they do. Another serious procedure, microfracture surgery, also has an 80% return rate and players on average lose 0-2 off their PER.

What is the reasoning on taking on young players again? I'd love to see data that shows any reason to assume ginobili is finished. I'd like to see data that even shows it as a serious possibility.

Both the impingement and stress fracture are both minor injuries. Manu didn't tear his ACL or break his leg in half.

[21_Blessings]

Manu is still about 32 years old though. Ankle injuries are a tricky thing in basketball, very easily re-aggravated. Manu never being the player he once was is much more likely then him staying healthy the entire season playing like he was 28 years old.

[Spurs9]

Well there is alot of talk about the spurs possible trade to get a #5 pick. I've heard that the draft may not be very deep or whatnot. But think of the past in the draft. The spurs really haven't had very high picks. The spurs picked up unknowns like parker and ginobili who led them to championships. I don't recall what number they were picked at. But imagine if the spurs had the luxury of moving up to a 5th spot. No telling who they could pick with a pick relatively that high. I love Ginobili alot, but I think he may be on his last leg and wouldn't be too upset if he was traded as long as we got something that will help us fight for another championship. What are your guys thoughts? Sorry if this is trade thread #1042349423 too :lobt2:

[rayray2k8]

There is nothing in the draft for the spurs..


Sorry if this is trade thread #1042349423 too

You know this, but yet you continue to add more threads?
Still too early to be thinking about basketball.. Get another hobby. :wakeup

[sananspursfan21]

if we get butler,young and the 5th pick for manu and oberto would be nice

make mason expandable to trade


caron butler? man, that's too good to be true. i love manu but i'd trade him for tough juice any day of the week

[Yuixafun]

so much stupid reasoning (if i can call it that) in this thread its making me lose my appetite and I have a plate of filipino home cooking in front of me.

Manu is superior to a nick young and a fucking 5 pick in this shit draft. Trading him away will not make the Spurs better.

Last time I checked a guard over 30 with tons of mileage on his legs was hoisting up the Bill Rusell trophy, uhh..... yesterday. And a finals MVP trophy too.

Manu and Kobe possess similar drive, passion. Now both can say they won Olympic gold and the NBA Championship trophy in the same time span.

Manu at 45% with a busted ankle had the will and fortitude to drop 30 on the Lakers in the WCF last year. Who else is capable of doing that? Not many...

How is it so difficult to recognize Manu is a special player. He impacts the game in ways that some sad people are incapable of seeing. In a similar fashion as Garnett amps ups Boston's defense, Manu changes the Spurs.

This years Spurs team with a supposedly better bench, than its had in recent years, failed to advance past the first round without Manu playing.

If anything, that should indicate the impact he makes, how he raises the caliber of the team from barely there playoff team, to a title contender.

You don't trade a diamond for fools gold.

[TMTTRIO]

Another trade Manu thread. :sleep

Expect another thousand or so before the offseason is over. It's going to be a very long offseason.

[Mel_13]

Expect another thousand or so before the offseason is over. It's going to be a very long offseason.

You're very optimistic.

I expect the trade Manu threads to continue up until the trade deadline. At that point, they will be replaced with the "We should have traded Manu" threads.

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs do not need a pick that high. So long as they can trade into at least the middle part of the 1st round, they should be fine. Besides the cost would be cheaper.

[Rob123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4chIBSAhx0w

here's his dunk on our very own george hill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA6ELaPdVlc

Can we have him... please

All he needs is a good coach and players to look up to. The wizards organization is a joke. Look how roger mason flourished here.

[ducks]

not suprising

[ffadicted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4chIBSAhx0w

here's his dunk on our very own george hill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA6ELaPdVlc

Can we have him... please

All he needs is a good coach and players to look up to. The wizards organization is a joke. Look how roger mason flourished here.

I hope to baby jesus this poster is sarcastic or a faker

[Bukefal]

Young is a good player, potential!

[Sissiborgo]

Get Jerrels and we are getting a good scorer and a fresh young backup player!:fro

[robert1886]

sam young is a great player the spurs could get mid to late first round...i have no idea how they would get there just have to wait and see

[Chomag]

so much stupid reasoning (if i can call it that) in this thread its making me lose my appetite and I have a plate of filipino home cooking in front of me.

Manu is superior to a nick young and a fucking 5 pick in this shit draft. Trading him away will not make the Spurs better.

Last time I checked a guard over 30 with tons of mileage on his legs was hoisting up the Bill Rusell trophy, uhh..... yesterday. And a finals MVP trophy too.

Manu and Kobe possess similar drive, passion. Now both can say they won Olympic gold and the NBA Championship trophy in the same time span.

Manu at 45% with a busted ankle had the will and fortitude to drop 30 on the Lakers in the WCF last year. Who else is capable of doing that? Not many...

How is it so difficult to recognize Manu is a special player. He impacts the game in ways that some sad people are incapable of seeing. In a similar fashion as Garnett amps ups Boston's defense, Manu changes the Spurs.

This years Spurs team with a supposedly better bench, than its had in recent years, failed to advance past the first round without Manu playing.

If anything, that should indicate the impact he makes, how he raises the caliber of the team from barely there playoff team, to a title contender.

You don't trade a diamond for fools gold.

First Kobe has never been season threatening injured for long periods of time, especially not of these high mile legs you are talking about.

Jordan was the best player ever to step on a basketball court, but do you think he could do the same thing if he steped on the court today? It seems some here will run Manu until his legs fall off, and even then if it does we still might get the " Manu could be healthy again next year"

Manu is a very good player but he is not inhuman like some make him out to be. He is 32 and His style of play you love (I know I do) puts major wear and tear on his body. He is now playing on 2 bum ankles, and one has been bad since his rookie year. When your young these things don't bother you much but as you get older you don't bounce back like you once could. I say this because I'm 32 now myself, and I stay fit and in shape, but I still can't get away with anything near what I could only a few years ago. Even healthy players at his age can't compete at a high level for his position.

Manu might not be completely done and could change his game and become just an outside spot up shooter where it would put less stress on his body, but would that be the Manu we love?

Honestly, how long did you truly expect Manu to play at his level of play and now especially that he has been so injured lately?

I'm a Manu fan but I'm thinking for the good of the team. Manu might not be able to help as much as he could before on the court but he still might be helpful to the team in other ways such as a trade for younger talent.

[Chomag]

You're very optimistic.

I expect the trade Manu threads to continue up until the trade deadline. At that point, they will be replaced with the "We should have traded Manu" threads.

Might be. Especially if manu is in a suit around that time.

[DMX7]

Might be. Especially if manu is in a suit around that time.

Oh, how dare you suggest that an injury prone player is injured when we need him.

[Bukefal]

There are going to be many many more trade manu threads!! Damn I want the season to begin!!