Nazr has the worst hands on the team.

[Experiment2100]

Not trashing the guy, i still think he was a good pickup, but damn, we gotta put glue on his hands or something cause too many slip through his fingers

[xcoriate]

So did Malik :)

[Dex]

At least Malik finished inside on occasion and could hit a jumpshot.

I'm really trying to give Mohommad the benefit of the doubt, and I have since the trade went through, but he really needs to step it up and start showing us something on the court.

[Ishta]

I don't like feeling like this about any Spur, But I've noticed when he is put in the Game it really pisses me off.. He plays like crap most of the time. How long does it take to get settled in? I think we've been pretty patient he needs to start showing he can play.http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smidepressed.gif http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smidepressed.gif http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smidepressed.gif

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Patient? Dude's been here for one month. Other Spur fan favorites have taken over a year to get the system down (with the benefit of pre-season training camp). Now Nazr's supposed to figure out all new teammates, coaches, and gameplans in 4 weeks?

What's everybody's excuse for Malik? He was here what, eight years, and played as bad this year as you are ragging on Nazr for.

[Ishta]

I understand.. It's just irritating. I don't hate the guy or anything.. I guess as a Spurs fan we're just spoiled, and have very high expectations. I hope he starts doing well. :angel

[MannyIsGod]

Malik would be making a killer difference on this team right now.

I don't think Nazr is going to make a positive impact this year at all. He just keeps regressing every damn game. I really honestly believe he's going to be left off the playoff roster.

I'll give him a full year to drop the Charles Smith Jr. label, but so far he's playing the part incredibly well.

[exstatic]

Malik would be making a killer difference on this team right now.

:lmaoX1 billion. I had to stop right there. Fucking St. Malik. Other than last night, MOST of the Spurs problems, minus Tim, have been on the defensive end, something a scrappy 6'5" forward is going to do nothing to effect. I, for one, don't forget guards just shooting right in his face, and over the top.

[BronxCowboy]

What's everybody's excuse for Malik? He was here what, eight years, and played as bad this year as you are ragging on Nazr for.

Wrong.

[davi78239]

Don't worry. The Spurs will win tonight after pop rips in to them.

[timvp]

Patient? Dude's been here for one month. Other Spur fan favorites have taken over a year to get the system down (with the benefit of pre-season training camp). Now Nazr's supposed to figure out all new teammates, coaches, and gameplans in 4 weeks?

:lol

This coming from the guy who said Nazr was going to average 10 and 10 the rest of the season.

The only 10 and 10 Nazr is going to average is ten ineffective minutes and ten Spurs fans wondering why this guy sucks when he put up numbers in New York.

Has Nazr played up to your expectations?

Don't lie.


What's everybody's excuse for Malik? He was here what, eight years, and played as bad this year as you are ragging on Nazr for.

You know this is BS.

[timvp]

:lmaoX1 billion. I had to stop right there. Fucking St. Malik. Other than last night, MOST of the Spurs problems, minus Tim, have been on the defensive end, something a scrappy 6'5" forward is going to do nothing to effect. I, for one, don't forget guards just shooting right in his face, and over the top.

Look at the numbers St. Malik put up as a starter. Now look at what Baby Hakeem is doing as a Spur. You can't tell me St. Malik wouldn't help.

But I guess if you bash a Spur on his way out, you have to defend the player who arrives. Even if he plays like a handicapped version of Samaki Walker.

[exstatic]

I like Malik, but just don't see his game the way the rest of you do, i.e. "Rose" colored glasses. Oh, and if you want a valid comparison, look at Horry's numbers, not Nazr's. He's the replacement starter, and erstwhile replacement "Malik".

[timvp]

Yeah but the Spurs could have been starting Rose and then have Horry coming off the bench for a solid three bigman rotation.

Now the Spurs are forced to start Horry and have either Marks, Massenburg or Samaki Walkammed come off the bench.

Can you honestly say that Nazr has lived up to expectations? Is this what you expected from him?

[Ishta]

Can you honestly say that Nazr has lived up to expectations? Is this what you expected from him?
1. NO
2. God I hope not

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'll be the first to admit Nazr isn't playing at the level I thought he would. Why that is, I don't know.

I think ex is right that Nazr might not do anything for us this year, but with a summer of training under his belt will contribute significantly IMO next year.


Quote:

Originally Posted by AHF



What's everybody's excuse for Malik? He was here what, eight years, and played as bad this year as you are ragging on Nazr for.



You know this is BS.

How is it BS? Malik didn't play up to ANYONE's expectations after signing his big contract. This year he was particuarly bad, hell he had more DNP-CDs than he had games played.

Malik's ONLY competition for playing time was 95 year old Tony Massenberg and 63 year old Robert Horry, and yet he still couldn't get off the pine.

BS? I'll tell you what's BS - thinking Malik was ever going to contribute another fucking thing besides community service awards to this franchise.

BTW timvp, you crack on me for throwing out excuses for Nazr, when you yourself led the brigade on this site that offered up countless excuses for Malik Black Hole Rose over the last two years.

I mean if Pop's falling out with Rose and Peter Holt's wallet tightening were valid concerns for why Rose never got to play (and was ultimately traded), then shouldn't Nazr defenders be able to play the 4 weeks in the system card? It's only fair.

Too many people here are too enamored with Rose bugging Shaq a little 6 years ago with David, Tim, and Will Perdue having his back to realize the last two years big men just jumped and reached over his head for rebounds, bowled him over for easy buckets, etc.

And of course everyone also seems to forget that everytime he guarded someone taller than him the last two years they just simply shot over his outreached hands.

The other highlights of the last two seasons that all the Rose colored glasses folks seem to gloss over in remembrance of their fallen hero was Rose being the black hole that never passed on offense in favor of bad shot after bad shot, and his incessant "why me" whining to the refs when opponents overcame his hustle and he was forced to foul.

But hey, like I said, for a two week period 6 years ago and another three years ago with Dave and Tim having his back, he bothered Shaq for a few days, and that should obviously trump his shitty play the last two seasons. ;)

[exstatic]

I'm not any more sold on Nazr than I was on Malik. :) Who's to say that Nazr is the end product? He may pan out next year, or he may be moved, with his deal going into the last year. I wonder if the Lakers would be stupid enough to do a Nazr/Barry for Odom trade? He and Kobe don't mesh, and I think they will be moving him. He's also versatile enough to play any of 4 positions, and can rebound and block shots. Barry, in his current form, is replaceable by any of a score of FA, low cost guards.

[timvp]

I'll be the first to admit Nazr isn't playing at the level I thought he would. Why that is, I don't know.


Because he put up good stats on bad teams and now that he's on a good team, he's overmatched.

Nah ... too easy, right?



How is it BS? Malik didn't play up to ANYONE's expectations after signing his big contract. This year he was particuarly bad, hell he had more DNP-CDs than he had games played.

:lol

WTF did you come up with that stat? See, that's the type of Rose hate that makes you lose all credibility when talking in a topic like this.


Malik's ONLY competition for playing time was 95 year old Tony Massenberg and 63 year old Robert Horry, and yet he still couldn't get off the pine.

Same competition that has Nazr Mohammed riding the pine. But Malik was averaging more minutes than any bigman on the bench not named Rasho or Tim.

Oops.


BS? I'll tell you what's BS - thinking Malik was ever going to contribute another fucking thing besides community service awards to this franchise.

Look at his stats. Don't go by memory.


BTW timvp, you crack on me for throwing out excuses for Nazr, when you yourself led the brigade on this site that offered up countless excuses for Malik Black Hole Rose over the last two years.

What excuses? That he didn't play? All I ever said is I think Pop should play Rose. I'd like to know what "excuses" I made.

Please provide an answer.

Thanks.


I mean if Pop's falling out with Rose and Peter Holt's wallet tightening were valid concerns for why Rose never got to play (and was ultimately traded), then shouldn't Nazr defenders be able to play the 4 weeks in the system card? It's only fair.

Rose played. Try again.

Nazr put up the best stats of career in the two half seasons he played after being traded. Oops.


Too many people here are too enamored with Rose bugging Shaq a little 6 years ago with David, Tim, and Will Perdue having his back to realize the last two years big men just jumped and reached over his head for rebounds, bowled him over for easy buckets, etc.

Same things happen to Nazr. How many times IN A ROW did Stephon Marbury go up and over him in that Knick loss? The Knicks ran the same play like 10 possessions in a row knowing that Nazr wasn't going to do anything to stop it.

You expected Rose to be David Robinson or Tim Duncan. He wasn't.

Now you will see Nazr isn't, either.


And of course everyone also seems to forget that everytime he guarded someone taller than him the last two years they just simply shot over his outreached hands.

Same with Nazr.


The other highlights of the last two seasons that all the Rose colored glasses folks seem to gloss over in remembrance of their fallen hero was Rose being the black hole that never passed on offense in favor of bad shot after bad shot, and his incessant "why me" whining to the refs when opponents overcame his hustle and he was forced to foul.

Nazr whines just as much and has three technical fouls this season. Rose has averaged more assists in a season than Nazr ever has.

Next.


But hey, like I said, for a two week period 6 years ago and another three years ago with Dave and Tim having his back, he bothered Shaq for a few days, and that should obviously trump his shitty play the last two seasons. ;)

Yeah, Rose never did anything. Nice history recap.

Check the stats and go back and look at what really happened.

Or else, just continue to believe that Rose sucked and Baby Hakeem is just coming into his own.

It's up to you.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Most of this is just difference of opinion but...


WTF did you come up with that stat? See, that's the type of Rose hate that makes you lose all credibility when talking in a topic like this.

It's called exaggeration.


How many times IN A ROW did Stephon Marbury go up and over him in that Knick loss? The Knicks ran the same play like 10 possessions in a row knowing that Nazr wasn't going to do anything to stop it.

And of course, piddly little six foot five in heels Malik Rose would have been stopping Stephon. :lol Yeah right!



You expected Rose to be David Robinson or Tim Duncan. He wasn't.

All I ever expected of Rose was for him to hustle, to get rebounds, and to play like a hustle player (remember how Najera kicked our ass last night? Malik USED to do that, back before he signed the big deal and started opening up restaurants/trying to score 20 a night).

The Malik Rose that a lot of folks (myself included) fell in love with - the one who hustled, dove for loose balls, got rebounds, got garbage buckets, did the little things, etc. has been MIA for a good two years now.

I never expected him to be like Dave. Never expected him to be like Tim either (though he sure seemed to have it in his head that he was). I expected him to at least bring the energy night in and night out like what we saw from superscrub Eddie Najera last night, but we got that Malik Rose about once every 20 games the last two years.

The fact is from the end of 2003 on Rose was never the same as he was. Now whether it was the new contract going to his head, Drob retiring and not having his back on defense, his family moving to SA, him opening restaurants, his blossoming relationship with Spursgal, or any other host of reasons or combination thereof that caused the deterioration in his play, I don't know. But there is a clear line of demarcation in Rose's play at the Summer of 2003, and it's the reason he is no longer a Spur today.

[timvp]

Nice to see you ignore all mentions of Nazr in your response. But yeah, I don't envy your position of having to defend Samaki Walkammed.

[Manu20]

Nazr only played 6 minutes tonight and had 2 points 4 rebounds.

[timvp]

He played no minutes in the second half because he was in the way offensively and was getting outrebouned by the likes of Jumaine Jones. For as good of an offensive rebounder Nazr is, he's that bad of a defensive rebounder.

However, his offensive rebounds are inflated because half of them are just him getting the ball blocked back into his grill.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I ignore all mentions of Nazr because it's obvious we're never gonna agree. You and I were at polar opposites when it came to Malik's um "skill level", and Nazr is the replacement and will never be good enough in the eyes of the Rose Colored Glasses crowd.

[timvp]

Is he good enough for you?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I already said he's not playing at the level I thought he would, but I'm willing to cut him some slack, it's not like he's been here for 7 years.

[Kori Ellis]

Nazr sucks.

He gets in people's way on offense and he's a defensive liability. Picking up a couple boards off your own misses to go along with a dunk here and there is not what I expected from him. I didn't think he would be this bad. I'm sick of watching our guards waving frantically at him to move. Sean Marks hadn't played in an NBA game in a long, long time and as soon as he came off IR, he moved ahead of Nazr in the rotation. That should tell you something.

[Manu20]

Like Kori said in the Round Table Nazr is HORRIBLE! :lol
I'm really dissipointed in him but there is still time for him to turn it around.

[Kori Ellis]

but there is still time for him to turn it around.

True. He might get better when Duncan returns. Or he might just get cut out of the rotation all together; we'll see.

[timvp]

:lol @ AHF cutting Nazr some slack. If Rose was playing this bad, you would have killed him.

Nazr is worthless at this point.

[MI21]

I'll give him to through the playoffs to see if he can contribute.

It's not looking good though.

[grjr]

You've all heard of the Allstate "good hands" award, right? So far, Nazr is headed more for the Cadillac (Anderson) "stone hands" award.

I'm really warming up to Marks though. I hope he sticks around on the playoff roster.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Why shouldn't I cut him slack LJ? You did it for Rose, and he'd been here for seven years, not four weeks.

Or hell, maybe Nazr should be a ball hog, call out Pop, and shoot it every time he gets it on offense, then when he doesn't play we can all say he's in Pop's doghouse and use that as an excuse for him.

Sean Marks should look more comfortable in the Spurs system, he's basically been here for two full seasons.

[T Park]

hes bad on offense, maybe because, he doesn't know the plays???


Of course, I knew from Day 1 of who he got traded for, that he would get zero slack, and if he didn't play like an all star from day 1, LJ, Whottt, and the rest of the Rose Brigade would be eating him alive.

I remember Mohammed played quite well with Tim Duncan in there little time together.

But once again, dnt mention that, becuase, Mohammed should play fantastic even if Duncan isn't around.

Once again, zero patience for the guy.

[T Park]

Or hell, maybe Nazr should be a ball hog, call out Pop, and shoot it every time he gets it on offense, then when he doesn't play we can all say he's in Pop's doghouse and use that as an excuse for him.

Dont forget pull the jersey over his head, curse back at his coach for the coach yelling at him for playing stupid.



But once again, nazr is the new whipping boy.

Hes taken Rasho and Barry's whipping boy role.

[Kori Ellis]

curse back at his coach for the coach yelling at him

Why are you making stuff up?

I'm not expecting Nazr to be very far along in the system, but I am expecting that he learn the basics. Each game he seems to regress. Hopefully that will change very soon.

[T Park]

Why are you making stuff up?


your telling me Kori,

you never saw Malik Rose yell back at pop ina timeout.

Wave his hand at him, pouts at the end of the bench?


If you haven't then I apologize, but that happened from about 02 to now.

[Kori Ellis]

You said "curse back at his coach". I'd venture to say that probably never happened. I don't think that he even yelled at Pop. Disagreed with .. yes. Pout? No. To this day Pop will tell you that Malik was the biggest cheerleader on the team when he was riding the pine and handled it with dignity, respect and was extremely well behaved when he wasn't getting playing time.

You can say whatever you want about Malik making bonehead moves on the court, about the one time that he broke a play, etc. But to say he disrespected Pop or behaved badly on the bench is ridiculous.

I understand you want Nazr to succeed, but utter hate of Malik isn't going to accomplish that.

[T Park]

Boy then I guess, when walking back to the huddle last year when pop yelled at him and he yelled back and pop walked to the huddle early to chide him and the team was a figment of about 18 thousand people's imagination.

Once again, Ive seen that happened more than once with my own eyes.

But once again, Malik is god, sorry to say something bad about him.

[Kori Ellis]

You said "curse". Did you hear him curse at Pop? If you say yes, then you are a big liar. He talked back to him, but he didn't yell in his face and he didn't curse at him.

[T Park]

oh im sure he said

darn it pop. dag nab it.

Gosh Darn it all.


I mean Im sure he didnt say "thats bullshit" or " Fuck that"

Some of his favorite sayings on the court.

But, once again, I give up.

THe Nazr Fans are at a disadvantage here and we might as well just roll with the punches, and wait till next year.

Amazing, anytime I become a fan of someone, the majority always has to rip that guy's ass.

[Kori Ellis]

I mean Im sure he didnt say "thats bullshit" or " Fuck that"

Some of his favorite sayings on the court.

:lol

You do realize that Malik very rarely cusses, right?

That's why the notion that he cussed at Pop is ridiculous. Well that ... and that none of the Spurs players make a habit of cussing at the coaching staff.

[grjr]

[QUOTE=Kori Ellis Well that ... and that none of the Spurs players make a habit of cussing at the coaching staff.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, they leave that to us fans. :elephant

[Frenchise player]

Nazr seems to be the new scape goat around here.
Timvp found another Spurs to bash after Brent Barry step up his game. Nothing wrong with it, just hope that he will recognize his mistakes if Nazr contributes in the playoffs what Malik didn't do last May.

[whottt]

I don't think TimVP hates Nazr...just as I don't...I think everyone realizes Nazr didn't trade himself to the Spurs...Nazr probably gets the brunt of many fans frustration with the Spurs brass for making a financial decision that jeopardized our title chances.

The danger here is that the Spurs will take the approach of many well meaning fans...and refuse to admit that Nazr is a woefully incompetent replacement for Malik Rose...both with Duncan out and in the quest of winning a title this season.

Not having Malik here hurts us, right now, and probably in the playoffs. Malik's only problem in the playoffs last season was that he didn't get played...and we lost in part due to weak interior play...Malik couldn't have done any worse than the guys we put on the court.

[whottt]

The concern over whether or not Nazr should even make the playoff roster is a legitimate one...he doesn't know what he's doing out there...and his ability to get a dunk per game is outweighed by his total cluelessness in every other facet of the game.


The thing is...regardless of whether or not Nazr deserves to be on the playoff roster is a moot point...

He will make it...becuase his failure to do so would point out just how much that trade hurt our title chances...and it would also leave the Spurs FO(and ownership) with egg on it's face and having to do a lot of explaining to the fans...so Nazr will definitely be on the playoff roster...but I seriously doubt he is going to log more PT or be a bigger factor than Marks.

[MI21]

I don't know if this is relevant or not, but surprising to me was Nazr's block total, considering he wasn't considered a shot blocker and said himself he would never be one.

13 blocks in 14 games. 0.9bpg in 14 mins compared to 1.0bpg in 28 mins in New York.

[bigbendbruisebrother]

He will make it...becuase his failure to do so would point out just how much that trade hurt our title chances...and it would also leave the Spurs FO(and ownership) with egg on it's face and having to do a lot of explaining to the fans...so Nazr will definitely be on the playoff roster...but I seriously doubt he is going to log more PT or be a bigger factor than Marks.

That may be true, but I've got a hunch that after TP's contract extension, the front office WANTED the Rose contract gone, and in that regard, they don't really care about what happens with Nazr.

I hate to root against the guy, but I hope Nazr doesn't make the playoff roster. Right now, Marks and T-Mass are doing a far more consistent job spelling the bigs.

[MannyIsGod]

There's no concern that Nazr should be on the roster. He sholdn't. Marks is playing much better than him, every single way.

[T Park]

Once again, I would hope Marks would be, hes been in the system and played with the team for 2 years, Mohammed has been here barely 4 weeks.

But, once again, the standards were set for Nazr way high just for who he was traded for.

[SequSpur]

Nazr hasn't had a chance, but I agree that he should at least be able to play basic basketball.

As for Malik cussing, I witnessed his antics first hand sitting 3 rows behind the bench last year and TPark is right on.

Malik clearly went off on Pop during one game and Pop clearly went off on Malik. Did they cuss? WGAF. Going off with or without cussing is the same thing. I didn't know that cussing was considered a different level.

Again, for the millionth time, Greg Popovich is fucking nothing without Duncan. Dude would be right along side Bob Hill at the corner panhandling if it wasn't for Duncan.

When mentioning Popovich's success or his backbone, please insert the "with Duncan" rule.

[timvp]

T Park, you are satisfied with his play? This is what you expected from him?

For someone who was willing to trade Rasho Nesterovic and Manu Ginobili for Nazr Mohammed, I'd think you'd want more than this.

[Kori Ellis]

No matter who he was traded for, he's still not acting like a guy who's been in the league seven years. He's shooting 40% from the floor (he shot 50% with the Knicks). He's averaging 3 fouls in 15 minutes per game (he averaged 3 fouls in 28 mpg in NY). And he's incredible confused on both ends of the floor.

Dion Glover seems less confused and he's only been here for a few weeks. It's not about comparing Nazr to Malik. It's just about Nazr.

[SequSpur]

Lets just face it.

Massenburg, Rasho, Mohammed and Marks have to be the worst group of assembled centers in the history of the NBA.

They are all one dimensional.

25 million in cap space two years in a row and end up with this group.

Only Pop could do that.

[Louae]

:lmaoX1 billion. I had to stop right there. Fucking St. Malik. Other than last night, MOST of the Spurs problems, minus Tim, have been on the defensive end, something a scrappy 6'5" forward is going to do nothing to effect. I, for one, don't forget guards just shooting right in his face, and over the top.

DENIAL X 1 BILLION. Malik would be making a difference with Timmy out. He's shown that in the past and I'm sure he would've been showing it now if he wasn't traded. At least the guy could hit a fuckin' jumper on the pick and roll. That's something we're severly missing right now with TP running pick and rolls.

Malik's play with TD out would be >>>>>>>> (Nazr/Marks/Mass)'s play with TD out.

Let's face it, the trade for Nazr might, and i'm stressing MIGHT, help us next year but trading for Nazr did nothing for us this year. In the short term, trading for Nazr made this team weaker. Horry starting and Malik being the first big off the bench would'be been a whole lot better than Horry starting and what we have now coming off the bench with Timmy injuried.

[SequSpur]

Pick and Roll???????????

Lets talk about this shit.. Why in the fuck would Pop run pick and roll at the top of the key with Rasho and Parker??

Rasho can't even shoot that far and he can't drive to the hole, nor can he run to the hole?

They must have ran that play 20 times against Denver and came up empty.

How about running it with someone else? Like Horry? Duh.

[T Park]

Has he been dissapointing? yes, but I obviously set the bar too high for him too.

IMO, the game against Seattle, he looked good, last night, he looked OK.

But, I think people misunderstand how long it takes to get used to the system, and get used to the defensive sets.

He obviously hasn't grasped the system yet, but to call the guy samaki walker, Charles Smith, and let me tell ya, I like Marks, IMO, Wilks should go on IR when Duncan comes back and when Brown comes back, cut Glover.


I like both Marks and Nazr.

I think though, in the playoffs, Nazr, next to Duncan will pay off HUGE dividends, and if you had seen the game IMO that showed this, was against Chicago.

Nazr and DUncan were teaming up and passing, and moving very well.


Some players play well WITH others, and WITHOUT others.

[pjjrfan]

Nazr sucks.

He gets in people's way on offense and he's a defensive liability. Picking up a couple boards off your own misses to go along with a dunk here and there is not what I expected from him. I didn't think he would be this bad. I'm sick of watching our guards waving frantically at him to move. Sean Marks hadn't played in an NBA game in a long, long time and as soon as he came off IR, he moved ahead of Nazr in the rotation. That should tell you something.
See, she took the words right out of my mouth. I like the hustle that Marks brings, the problem with Nazr is that he can't hit anything short of a dunk, and when he gets the ball he keeps it and forces shots, bad shots. Say what you will about Malik but he always came up big for the Spurs in the Playoffs, except for last year when he was used like 30 secs.

I'll take Marks over Nazr right now.

[ducks]

M. Rose 18 1-6 0-0 0-0 1 4 1 4 0 1 4 2
rose has been playing good with the the knicks

however last night he sucked worse then nazr
nazr should have caught on faster but so should have barry
barry had ALL TRAINGING CAMP!

I am wondering if NAZR is pressing more with duncan out. Barry was. MAybe Nazr is trying to hold.

[Slo spurs fan]

Why noone respond to Sequ? He will be sooooooooooooo sad! :( :cry

Is Sequ on everybodys' ignore list?
:D

[sa_butta]

So did Malik :)agreed
I feel like the trade was about even maybe
a little in our favor with some time.

I think we will get by fine with Center by
committee in the playoffs

T-Mass
Rasho
Mohommed

[Kori Ellis]

Wilks should go on IR when Duncan comes back and when Brown comes back, cut Glover.

Why would you need to cut Glover. Just put him on IR if you want. If they are wary of Devin's back, they might even keep him active.

[Rummpd]

"Lets just face it.

Massenburg, Rasho, Mohammed and Marks have to be the worst group of assembled centers in the history of the NBA.

They are all one dimensional."

Name 5 better groups of center in the NBA right now! I personally can go with Wallace and his back ups at Detroit, Shaq and crew on Heat, Rockets with Yao and the ageless Mutombo who gives the Spurs fits, and Miller and his group at Kings. Other teams like Pacers with J O'Neal and Suns with Amare are not starting true centers.

However, when you add a healthy Duncan to what Spurs have and suddenly Spurs really top 3 at worst in bigs. Stop the hate!