If Sheed is in, is Bonner a goner?

[ElNono]

IF we manage to land Sheed, is Bonner expendable?
Considering we will be in lux tax territory, the Spurs would save ~$6 million, which is not chump change.
Sheed can do what Bonner does plus more. We would have Blair and Ian as second stringers, and we could always resign Oberto for the vet minimum as insurance and still save circa $4 million.

Thoughts?

[jgome21]

ferp

[Thompson]

How are you suggesting we get rid of his $3 million? Do we really want Oberto with heart problems over Bonner? Matt sucked in the playoffs for whatever reason, but he could probably help us get a few wins in the regular season (top 3 point shooter in the NBA by percentage last year, I think).

The easiest way I can think of is a sign-and-trade of Rasheed Wallace or McDyess for Bonner, if they could use a player like that and if either of those players would accept that deal. Orlando for that matter loves the 3 and might like him if Gortat would accept a $3 million dollar sign-and-trade.

[NewJerSpur]

Oberto (if waived) and Ian's health are inquestion at this point, and Blair is still a rook. Bonner's familiar with the system and can still hit the 3 if nothing else and had a pretty good 1st half shooting-wise. I understand the thinking, but I think he stays....could be wrong though, I thought Bowen would stay (though he may return later).

[dbestpro]

If you cut Bonner you still are on the books for his salary. If you trade him you have to take back salary within 10% of Bonner's salary. The only other way is for detroit to do a sign and trade of Wallace for Bonner which does not benefit Detroit and would not match what Wallace wants in salary.

[phyzik]

Naa... Bonner will stay. He was money with the 3 ball in the regular season, plus his defense on Dirk was actually pretty damn good.... at least better than I expected. Just look up dirk's numbers.

[ElNono]

If you cut Bonner you still are on the books for his salary. If you trade him you have to take back salary within 10% of Bonner's salary. The only other way is for detroit to do a sign and trade of Wallace for Bonner which does not benefit Detroit and would not match what Wallace wants in salary.

Can't he be traded for future picks and cash? I thought we did that to get rid of Jackie Butler...

[Death In June]

Bonner + Finely for Camby? His contract is like 7 mill, isn't it?

[timvp]

I wouldn't waste assets in dumping Bonner. Just stick at the end of the bench. If a team comes calling and is willing to absorb his contract for a second rounder and cash, then maybe you make that move.

Dumping Butler's contract, which was smaller than Bonner's contract is now, turned out to be a horrible trade.

Besides, as a 11th or 12th man, Bonner has decent value.

[kenson-q]

Naa... Bonner will stay. He was money with the 3 ball in the regular season, plus his defense on Dirk was actually pretty damn good.... at least better than I expected. Just look up dirk's numbers.
Are you kidding me?His defense on Dirk was pretty damn good?I don't think he can defend Erick Dampier.

[EricB]

Are you kidding me?His defense on Dirk was pretty damn good?I don't think he can defend Erick Dampier.


Outside of game 5, Dirk was nothing special.

Bonner played pretty good D on him.

Its been so long since that series I've put it out of memory.

Had he hit a couple threes here and there he wouldn't be pissed on so bad as he is right now.

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner's a very good defender. He was being asked to defend far bigger and better players all season long, and he did a commendable job of doing so. Don't blame Bonner for the fact that the Spurs had to play him out of position for heavy minutes. When you can let others do that and bring him in to score he suddenly becomes a huge weapon. Think of him as a front line version of Jack McClinton.

[EricB]

Bonner + Finely for Camby? His contract is like 7 mill, isn't it?

10 mill.

[EricB]

Bonner's a very good defender. He was being asked to defend far bigger and better players all season long, and he did a commendable job of doing so. Don't blame Bonner for the fact that the Spurs had to play him out of position for heavy minutes. When you can let others do that and bring him in to score he suddenly becomes a huge weapon. Think of him as a front line version of Jack McClinton.


Agreed.

His shooting has no excuse, but his defense was good down the stretch.

[Spurs16212]

What about Bonner and bring in Finley send them to Chicago for John Salmons......

Finley and Bonner are expiring contracts plus Chicago gets a Championship Veteran than can provide leadership from the bench......

Salmons can be another option coming off the bench....

Parker / Hill / McClinton
Ginobili / Mason / Hairston
Jefferson / Salmons / Williams
Duncan / Blair / Gist
(MLE) Big / Mahimni / Oberto?

Thoughts......

[Spurs16212]

Maybe throw in a first or second rounder in 2010 or 2011 to sweeten the deal.....

We are in a win now mode......

[Obstructed_View]

What about Bonner and bring in Finley send them to Chicago for John Salmons......

How about Bonner and Finley and the corpse of Sidney Green for Kobe.

[ElNono]

Bonner's a very good defender. He was being asked to defend far bigger and better players all season long, and he did a commendable job of doing so. Don't blame Bonner for the fact that the Spurs had to play him out of position for heavy minutes. When you can let others do that and bring him in to score he suddenly becomes a huge weapon. Think of him as a front line version of Jack McClinton.

We must have seen a different season. Bonner was routinely abused, and on top of that could not grab a board to save his life. If his shot was not falling (pretty much every game since January), then he was detriment to the team.
Then again, my point is not about his abilities. I'm wondering if he's the guy that could be moved to offset some salary now that we're going to be on lux tax territory. I don't really mind him at the end of the bench.

[phyzik]

Are you kidding me?His defense on Dirk was pretty damn good?I don't think he can defend Erick Dampier.

huh?

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/forum_images/1/0/1021669.1145276548290.STFU_NEWBIE_.jpg

like I said, look up Dirk's numbers, Bonner defended his ass damn good. Dirk didnt do shit the first 3 or 4 games with Bonner being the primary defender.

[EricB]

How about Bonner and Finley and the corpse of Sidney Green for Kobe.

What the hell throw in David Greenwood too.

[ElNono]

How about Bonner and Finley and the corpse of Sidney Green for Kobe.

We'll throw in an autographed jersey of Silas to boot...

[NewJerSpur]

We must have seen a different season. Bonner was routinely abused, and on top of that could not grab a board to save his life. If his shot was not falling (pretty much every game since January), then he was detriment to the team.
Then again, my point is not about his abilities. I'm wondering if he's the guy that could be moved to offset some salary now that we're going to be on lux tax territory. I don't really mind him at the end of the bench.

He's a better perimeter than post defender....his footwork is pretty good for a dude his size but in the post he's a disappointment for the position he plays. Maybe Finley can help us out financially by calling it quits....at least that's what's included in my prayers every night before bedtime.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

10 mill.

7.2. Camby's deal was frontloaded.

[Spurs16212]

I dont think it would be a bad trade..... Chicago would receive two players whose contracts would expire next year (2010 FA) and free up approximately 6.3 million and they would get their moneys worth with Finley and Bonner......

[Spurs16212]

7.2. Camby's deal was frontloaded.

It would take Mason, Finley and Bonner for the trade to work for Camby.....

[Obstructed_View]

We must have seen a different season. Bonner was routinely abused, and on top of that could not grab a board to save his life. If his shot was not falling (pretty much every game since January), then he was detriment to the team.
Then again, my point is not about his abilities. I'm wondering if he's the guy that could be moved to offset some salary now that we're going to be on lux tax territory. I don't really mind him at the end of the bench.

If you put Duncan out on the perimeter guarding Chris Paul, don't be pissed at Duncan when Paul goes by him.

Bonner got scored on by guys like Amare, Gasol, Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony, Rasheed, Dirk, Yao, etc., and you guys are surprised? News flash: Those guys score on everybody, and Bonner was charged with defending them with no help and very little backup because he was the starting center. That's hardly his fault, as I'm sure he was never brought to this team to be a starter, much less a defender of the best bigs on the other team or even a shot blocker.

I'm quite sure that if relieved of having to cover those guys every single night, he'd quickly become an asset. His job should be to be a gunner who plays 10-20 minutes depending on the opponent and his primary job should be shooting open threes and getting cushy defensive assignments.

[EricB]

7.2. Camby's deal was frontloaded.


Damnt,

someone posted the other day it was 9.9.

Shit go ahead and pick that option up Finley and bring in Camby, sign Sheed call it an offseason.

[phyzik]

if you put duncan out on the perimeter guarding chris paul, don't be pissed at duncan when paul goes by him.

Bonner got scored on by guys like amare, gasol, lamarcus aldridge, carmelo anthony, rasheed, dirk, yao, etc., and you guys are surprised? News flash: those guys score on everybody, and bonner was charged with defending them with no help and very little backup because he was the starting center. That's hardly his fault, as i'm sure he was never brought to this team to be a starter, much less a defender of the best bigs on the other team or even a shot blocker.

I'm quite sure that if relieved of having to cover those guys every single night, he'd quickly become an asset. His job should be to be a gunner who plays 10-20 minutes depending on the opponent and his primary job should be shooting open threes and getting cushy defensive assignments.

qft

[EricB]

It would take Mason, Finley and Bonner for the trade to work for Camby.....


you only have to get within 125% to get it to happen.

Bonner makes 3.5 I believe and Finley if he picked up the option would make 2.5.

Thats 6 right there. More than enough to be within the 125% range to get it done.

[Obstructed_View]

Trading Bonner for Camby doesn't solve any problems for the Clippers.

[Spurs16212]

If you put Duncan out on the perimeter guarding Chris Paul, don't be pissed at Duncan when Paul goes by him.

Bonner got scored on by guys like Amare, Gasol, Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony, Rasheed, Dirk, Yao, etc., and you guys are surprised? News flash: Those guys score on everybody, and Bonner was charged with defending them with no help and very little backup because he was the starting center. That's hardly his fault, as I'm sure he was never brought to this team to be a starter, much less a defender of the best bigs on the other team or even a shot blocker.


I'm quite sure that if relieved of having to cover those guys every single night, he'd quickly become an asset. His job should be to be a gunner who plays 10-20 minutes depending on the opponent and his primary job should be shooting open threes and getting cushy defensive assignments.


I agree that he was played out of position.... He is not a center much less a post player.... I am not entirely sold that he is a wing either...... Its like he has the body of a post but the skills of a wing.....

And its true that guys like Gasol, Dirk, Carmelo, etc. are going to score their points but at the same sense the Spurs needed him as a big and he had his moments but in all he had his difficulty because at times he would disappear. Its not all his fault but I think with the direction the Spurs want to go in Bonner would not fit in those plans. He is a great individual and a great player but the Spurs right now in my belief needs a different type player to complement this revamped roster.

[slayermin]

Bonner shot 44% from three last season. You have to keep your expectations low with Matt, then be pleasantly surprised when he drills 4 out of 6 behind the arc. He kills certain teams because in his own way, he's a tough matchup.

But if Rasheed does come, Bonner is expendable.

[NewJerSpur]

I agree that he was played out of position.... He is not a center much less a post player.... I am not entirely sold that he is a wing either...... Its like he has the body of a post but the skills of a wing.....

And its true that guys like Gasol, Dirk, Carmelo, etc. are going to score their points but at the same sense the Spurs needed him as a big and he had his moments but in all he had his difficulty because at times he would disappear. Its not all his fault but I think with the direction the Spurs want to go in Bonner would not fit in those plans. He is a great individual and a great player but the Spurs right now in my belief needs a different type player to complement this revamped roster.

The Big situation is still dicey and dude can still shoot the ball which will land you a lifetime spot on Pop's bench. I too believe that if you give him a lesser role he'd still be a good fit.

[Thompson]

Trading Bonner for Camby doesn't solve any problems for the Clippers.

They couldn't use an outside shooting big in exchange for one of their many centers? I'm curious (honest question, I don't know the difference), why do players like Kapono get massive contracts for shooting the 3, and Bonner shoots the best percentage in the NBA last year and no one wants him. I'm sure Kapono must do something else well, I just don't know what it is.

You're right that they wouldn't do that trade, though. Last year they wanted Hill (and Mason?) to do the trade, and I'm kind of glad that deal fell through.

[50 cent]

Dumping Butler's contract, which was smaller than Bonner's contract is now, turned out to be a horrible trade.



If you think about it, trading Scola allowed us to get Kurt Thomas which we turned into Richard Jefferson, so it's not all bad in hindsight.

:downspin:

[ElNono]

If you put Duncan out on the perimeter guarding Chris Paul, don't be pissed at Duncan when Paul goes by him.

Bonner got scored on by guys like Amare, Gasol, Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony, Rasheed, Dirk, Yao, etc., and you guys are surprised? News flash: Those guys score on everybody, and Bonner was charged with defending them with no help and very little backup because he was the starting center. That's hardly his fault, as I'm sure he was never brought to this team to be a starter, much less a defender of the best bigs on the other team or even a shot blocker.

I'm quite sure that if relieved of having to cover those guys every single night, he'd quickly become an asset. His job should be to be a gunner who plays 10-20 minutes depending on the opponent and his primary job should be shooting open threes and getting cushy defensive assignments.

Kurt Thomas didn't have a problem grabbing boards against those same guys.
After playing a full season, he KEPT missing defensive rotations.
What's his excuse? I'm sorry, but Pop played him in the same way that he played Horry, with the difference that Horry was a smarter defender and could still go up and block an occasional shot.
Again, should we land a guy like Rasheed, do we really need him?

[Spurs16212]

you only have to get within 125% to get it to happen.

Bonner makes 3.5 I believe and Finley if he picked up the option would make 2.5.

Thats 6 right there. More than enough to be within the 125% range to get it done.

Marcus Camby is set to make about 9.6 Million this coming year. I dont know where the 7.2 Million is coming from..... With the 6.3 Million that Bonner and Finley make combined that comes out to 152%. You need a third person in this and I would have to say it would come down to Mason......

[Spurs16212]

Kurt Thomas didn't have a problem grabbing boards against those same guys.
After playing a full season, he KEPT missing defensive rotations.
What's his excuse? I'm sorry, but Pop played him in the same way that he played Horry, with the difference that Horry was a smarter defender and could still go up and block an occasional shot.
Again, should we land a guy like Rasheed, do we really need him?

I agree....... But I do believe he had his moments though.

[Ditty]

could we trade him for a second round pick in 2020?:lol

[Dingle Barry]

You can't just look at Dirk's stats and act like Bonner is a Dirk stopper now. Dirk was choking all over the place for the majority of that series.

Bonner sucks ass at defense. That's a fact, a physical law of the universe.

[EricB]

Alright whats Camby REALLY making.

7.2 or 9.6 someone make up their mind please.

[EricB]

You can't just look at Dirk's stats and act like Bonner is a Dirk stopper now. Dirk was choking all over the place for the majority of that series.

Bonner sucks ass at defense. That's a fact, a physical law of the universe.

Ah ok.

So he chokes when does bad nothing to do with Bonner.

Does good, its cause Bonner sucks at defense.


:lol

typical childish hate of Bonner BS.

[MaNu4Tres]

Alright whats Camby REALLY making.

7.2 or 9.6 someone make up their mind please.

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/clippers.jsp

[loveforthegame]

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/clippers.jsp

Huh. Hoopshype has the same numbers as your link for everyone else but Camby.

They have him making $7,650,000

[HarlemHeat37]

Bonner is a valuable offensive player to have off your bench..he's a great 3-point shooter, and the rest of his game wouldn't look bad playing against the bench players of the opposing team..

[MaNu4Tres]

Ah ok.

So he chokes when does bad nothing to do with Bonner.

Does good, its cause Bonner sucks at defense.


:lol

typical childish hate of Bonner BS.

Bonner's defensive positioning was very good last year and he gave a commendable effort on the defensive end that was overlooked. However even with the effort he showed, he is very limited physically and athletically which still makes him a liability on the defensive end. Just like Brent Barry was for us on the perimeter. Great effort but still a liability.

[NewJerSpur]

You can't just look at Dirk's stats and act like Bonner is a Dirk stopper now. Dirk was choking all over the place for the majority of that series.

Bonner sucks ass at defense. That's a fact, a physical law of the universe.

Well, when Dirk went against a Bonner-less Nugget team his numbers increased dramatically....though he was in explicably missing some open shots against SA. Don't think anyone has mentioned Matt as being a "Dirk-stopper", but his defense was solid.

Again, the main question asked of the thread is will he be back if we sign a big like Sheed....I say yes.

[ss1986v2]

Huh. Hoopshype has the same numbers as your link for everyone else but Camby.

They have him making $7,650,000

never use hoopshype for salaries. its like going to hoopsworld for credible rumors.

[Dingle Barry]

Ah ok.

So he chokes when does bad nothing to do with Bonner.

Does good, its cause Bonner sucks at defense.


:lol

typical childish hate of Bonner BS.

Wrong. It's typical analysis of the defense Bonner actually played. Although children do hate Bonner BS, as do puppies and Jesus.

[Cry Havoc]

I'd much rather have Bonner than having to cut him, take a penalty, and then resign Fabs.

[Chieflion]

Keep him. At least if you know he sucks, you can fire the water boy.

[lefty]

If Sheed is in, we're getting a Boner




So it's a win-win :tu

[angelbelow]

im good either way, but he had his moments though. if hes riding the end of the bench i dont see him being a bad back up option. 3 mill is a lot but hes not a bad player.

[Obstructed_View]

Keep Bonner just in case. NBA Finals 2010 Spurs vs. Celtics, Matt Bonner finals MVP.

[Mal]

NBA Finals 2010 Spurs vs. Celtics, Matt Bonner finals MVP.

Scal would demolish him

[afireinside20]

If we get Sheed, then yea it's time to can Bonner's ass!!! I swear this dude is just plain garbage, where was he in the playoffs? It's like a sick dying horse that wants to keep going on, just put it out of it's fucking misery already. See ya Bonner.

[VivaPopovich]

IF we manage to land Sheed, is Bonner expendable?

Yes.


Thoughts?

Bonner is a SF not PF. If he wants to stay he better start playing defense and grabbing rebounds instead of being a one trick pony.

[Obstructed_View]

Scal would demolish him

Not in Boston.

[Bruno]

If you can salary dump Bonner without giving assets, ti's a no brainer but I doubt Spurs will be able to do it.

I would be fine with Spurs having Duncan, Sheed, Bonner, Blair, Mahinmi and Gist as front line for the start of the season. If the young players suck, you can always do a trade for a good big before the trade deadline with expiring contracts and future round picks as main assets.

[DBMethos]

Bonner's been here long enough that he knows the system better than any of the new guys we're bringing in. He can play good minutes during the regular season to keep our other bigs fresh for the playoffs. I don't see why we don't keep him as an 11th or 12th man.

[diego]

I agree that bonner will look better with reduced minutes and that his knowledge of the system and acquired chemistry give him some added value over all the new guys (mahinmi included). but he is not a good defender. he is mobile for his size, but he doesnt anticipate well, is often out of place, and makes at least 2 stupid fouls per game. by the same token, he is not a good rebounder. he's ok as a 3pt specialist, but he is most definitely a one trick pony.

and the series stats against dirk mean nothing. 1st, because 19.2 on 49% is good. and 2nd, because the spurs were focusing on dirk while letting howard go off. tim is the anchor, and he isnt what he used to be, but the rest has to rotate quickly and to the right place around him. the dallas frontline killed us in large part because bonner, finley and KT did a poor job of that. dirk's scoring went up against denver? well, howard and dampier went way down against them. I wonder if dampier didnt average a career high ppg for a playoff series against the spurs.

its ok to value bonner, but there is no need to make him out to be a dirk stopping defensive player when he is not.

[Agloco]

IF we manage to land Sheed, is Bonner expendable?
Considering we will be in lux tax territory, the Spurs would save ~$6 million, which is not chump change.
Sheed can do what Bonner does plus more. We would have Blair and Ian as second stringers, and we could always resign Oberto for the vet minimum as insurance and still save circa $4 million.

Thoughts?

IMO Bonner is expendable regardless.

But even more so with Sheed in the mix.

[Dunc n Dave]

Damnt,

someone posted the other day it was 9.9.

Shit go ahead and pick that option up Finley and bring in Camby, sign Sheed call it an offseason.

Shamsports and draft express both have Camby at $9.65 million this year.

hoopshype is the only one listing him at $7.65 million. They are alos known for being very slow in updating contract extensions when changes are made (like 6 months later)

You decide who is right...

[kobyz]

it's $9,650,000
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p04two3w1E2ZHhzBoBSzXQQ&gid=14

[45 bank shot]

no, he won't be a goner, instead a boner

[vander]

I wouldn't waste assets in dumping Bonner. Just stick at the end of the bench. If a team comes calling and is willing to absorb his contract for a second rounder and cash, then maybe you make that move.

Dumping Butler's contract, which was smaller than Bonner's contract is now, turned out to be a horrible trade.

Besides, as a 11th or 12th man, Bonner has decent value.

a known quantity at 10-15 is always a waste IMO. you need upside and potential in those spots.

I'm one of Bonner's biggest supporters, but if Sheed is here, we've no need for Bonner, he won't crack the playoff rotation, and we'll make the playoffs with or without him. give his spot to some young guy

[Mavs<Spurs]

Originally Posted by ElNono View Post

We must have seen a different season. Bonner was routinely abused, and on top of that could not grab a board to save his life. If his shot was not falling (pretty much every game since January), then he was detriment to the team.

+ 1

:repost:

[4RINGS]

Bonner's days in SA are numbered, his defense is garbage, so he is really just a role player, 3 point specialist. He should come off the bench and not start. We need to replace him at Center ASAP. Sheed would fit nicely at the spot.

[The Truth #6]

IF we can somehow package Bonner and Finley in a trade to acquire a productive veteran post player, then yes pull the trigger. Otherwise I think it's wise to hold on to him until the mid-season trade deadline. I would consider him insurance. To begin the season I would rather play Blair, Ian, and Gist over Bonner. If for whatever reason those 3 players can't contribute (which unfortunately is a dooms day scenario) then Bonner could then get minutes. However, Bonner went into a shell when Drew Gooden arrived so it's hard for me to imagine him handling next season well at all no matter what happens.

The more I think about...maybe we should dump him as soon as we can?

[HarlemHeat37]

I disagree with O_V about Bonner's defense..I don't think he's bad or anything, but I don't really see how anybody can call him a good defender..he's average..

Matt Bonner had ONE problem last year..it wasn't his lack of balls, it wasn't his rebounding, and it wasn't his defense..the problem with Bonner was that he was turned into our starting big man..Matt Bonner is NOT a starter..

if you put him on the bench, he's a SIGNIFICANT asset..the guy was shooting around 50% from 3s at a late part of the season..he's a lights-out shooter..if he's coming off the bench, he has little pressure, and he doesn't have to rebound or defend against the other teams best big men..he can simply stick to playing against the other team's bench, which will make him look a lot better..

If you can trade him for something positive, do it, but if not, then he's a good bench player..I'd at least keep him until the season, at least until I see what Mahinmi/Blair/Gist can give us..if 2 of those 3 guys are significantly productive in the frontcourt, then you can trade him..but as of right now, they are all unknowns..

[Muser]

Keep Bonner, say what you will about him but I welcome his 3 point shooting for a few minutes a night.

[coyotes_geek]

I disagree with O_V about Bonner's defense..I don't think he's bad or anything, but I don't really see how anybody can call him a good defender..he's average..

Matt Bonner had ONE problem last year..it wasn't his lack of balls, it wasn't his rebounding, and it wasn't his defense..the problem with Bonner was that he was turned into our starting big man..Matt Bonner is NOT a starter..

if you put him on the bench, he's a SIGNIFICANT asset..the guy was shooting around 50% from 3s at a late part of the season..he's a lights-out shooter..if he's coming off the bench, he has little pressure, and he doesn't have to rebound or defend against the other teams best big men..he can simply stick to playing against the other team's bench, which will make him look a lot better..

Couldn't agree more. Bonner was forced into a role that required more than he was capable of giving. As a role player, Bonner would be a nice piece to this team.

[galvatron3000]

Bonner defended Amare well, some of those calls were very questionable.

Anyway, I'm concerned now that Carter is in Orlando, Sheed may rejoin his UNC alumni so where does that leave the Spurs?

[lotr1trekkie]

Bonner only needs some attitude correction. Numerout times this season I observes him take fouls and give up the basket. Shoot, Bonner is built like a tight end and should hammer people in ther lane. Maybe Blair will rub off on him and we can have Bruise Brothers II. He might be a perfect fit in NY.

[Mr. Body]

Bonner is just crap.

[4RINGS]

Bonner is just crap.


I agree. Let's move him IF we can. I know we WILL NOT re-sign him next summer.

[Obstructed_View]

Bonner only needs some attitude correction. Numerout times this season I observes him take fouls and give up the basket. Shoot, Bonner is built like a tight end and should hammer people in ther lane. Maybe Blair will rub off on him and we can have Bruise Brothers II. He might be a perfect fit in NY.

He's more likely to go for a block or to take a hard foul if he's not starting and being expected to stay in for 30 minutes a night. His entire reason for existing changes with the role change from starter.

I look at the upcoming season for Bonner the same way I do for Tony Romo: We just removed all your reasons for failure, now go out and do your job and the results are on you.

[EricB]

Bonner is just crap.


:lol

Says the fan of Josh McRoberts.

[Obstructed_View]

Crap that shoots 44 pecent from three point range.

[Mugen]

if sheed is gone, then my boner is a goner.

[manu_maniac]

Bonner is worth what we're giving him, even if we land Sheed.

Also, I think it's a problem that we only have one true center on our roster in Mahinmi, even if we got Sheed, because I don't like Duncan being forced into the position. Camby would fix that, but 9.6 mil is tough to deal with.

[Mr. Body]

:lol

Says the fan of Josh McRoberts.

Hey, I thought he was an alright pick in the 2nd that year. So what? I've been right about exactly everything else.

Also, Bonner is still crap.

[ElNono]

Crap that shoots 44 pecent from three point range.

Except when it matters...

[4RINGS]

I love Bonner's 3 point shot, but I hate his hacking defense. He is a liability on D for sure(watch his play against Dirk in the Playoffs), plus Sheed can shoot the 3, Bonner is expendable.

[my2sons]

huh?

http://tnation.tmuscle.com/forum_images/1/0/1021669.1145276548290.STFU_NEWBIE_.jpg

like I said, look up Dirk's numbers, Bonner defended his ass damn good. Dirk didnt do shit the first 3 or 4 games with Bonner being the primary defender.

May be a noob, but he is correct. He frustrated and annoyed the hell out of Dirk. Plus I believe he now becomes a valuable asset. He now comes off the bence, clears space for sheed or timmy inside and works his azz off. I think, he is an ultimate role player and not a starter.

[4RINGS]

Wow, Dirk only avg. 19 points in 37 min per game. I guess Bonner did stop him. Bonner is a lock down defender, my bad, let's sign him to a long term deal.

[Obstructed_View]

Except when it matters...
When exactly did it matter last season?

[Obstructed_View]

Wow, Dirk only avg. 19 points in 37 min per game. I guess Bonner did stop him. Bonner is a lock down defender, my bad, let's sign him to a long term deal.

Dirk's PPG regular season: 25.9
Dirk's PPG against Denver: 34.4

How about we just let him be a shooting specialist off the bench, since there seems to be no evidence in your statistic that he's a terrible defender.

[rascal]

Bonner is a valuable offensive player to have off your bench..he's a great 3-point shooter, and the rest of his game wouldn't look bad playing against the bench players of the opposing team..

Why the need for the center to shoot the 3 pointer when the spurs have many other options to shoot the 3 and now McClinton will be a great 3 pt. shooter.

A defensive center who can get rebounds and score around the basket and finish in transition would be more valuable than Bonner.

[rascal]

Bonner is worth what we're giving him, even if we land Sheed.

Also, I think it's a problem that we only have one true center on our roster in Mahinmi, even if we got Sheed, because I don't like Duncan being forced into the position. Camby would fix that, but 9.6 mil is tough to deal with.

Duncan plays like a center even if you don't want to call him a center.

[4RINGS]

Dirk's PPG regular season: 25.9
Dirk's PPG against Denver: 34.4

How about we just let him be a shooting specialist off the bench, since there seems to be no evidence in your statistic that he's a terrible defender.

Agreed, I love Bonner coming off the bench. Or staying on the bench, either way I'm good.:sleep

[ElNono]

When exactly did it matter last season?

The playoffs?

[ElNono]

Dirk's PPG regular season: 25.9
Dirk's PPG against Denver: 34.4

How about we just let him be a shooting specialist off the bench, since there seems to be no evidence in your statistic that he's a terrible defender.

Why do you avoid to point out that we double and sometimes even triple teamed Dirk because his defender couldn't handle him one on one? Or are you gonna deny our gameplan was to cover Dirk and let everyone else score?

[GSH]

Bonner was a decent energy guy off the bench. Scrapping for boards, knocking down a shot or two, and using up some fouls to harass the hell out of the other team.

I think that kind of player is valuable, and I hope that Bonner still has it in him. The team was sort of forced to put him in a position that he wasn't suited for - or at least wasn't ready for.

[Obstructed_View]

Why the need for the center to shoot the 3 pointer when the spurs have many other options to shoot the 3 and now McClinton will be a great 3 pt. shooter.

A defensive center who can get rebounds and score around the basket and finish in transition would be more valuable than Bonner.

You don't need a starting center to shoot three pointers. Having a big who can come in and shoot three pointers at a 40 percent clip from either the 4 or the 5 position and give you spot minutes as a gunner is great to have at the end of your bench.

[Mel_13]

Duncan plays like a center even if you don't want to call him a center.

And Bonner played like a forward even though you called him a center.

[Obstructed_View]

Why do you avoid to point out that we double and sometimes even triple teamed Dirk because his defender couldn't handle him one on one? Or are you gonna deny our gameplan was to cover Dirk and let everyone else score?

The Spurs spent most of that series leaving people open, because they chased the ball around the floor. The Mavericks' offense doesn't, nor has it ever, started with Dirk and you fucking know it. The biggest disruptor of the Spurs' defense was JJ Barea's penetration. And the reality of Kidd, Howard, Terry and anyone else under six and a half feet tall being wide open throughout the series had more to do with Mason and Finley's horrible defense coupled with Pop's refusal to play either Bowen or Hill until it was too late.

[4RINGS]

And Bonner played like a forward even though you called him a center.

That is why he needs to come off the bench, he is a PF behind Duncan and maybe even Blair.

[Mel_13]

That is why he needs to come off the bench, he is a PF behind Duncan and maybe even Blair.


Of course he does. I don't think the most enthusiastic Bonner supporter here believes he should start.

[manu the best]

bonner should be out even if sheed does not come to SA ..

[4RINGS]

bonner should be out even if sheed does not come to SA ..

I agree, we should have traded Bonner and kept K. Thomas. At least he plays D and gets a few rebounds.:flag:

[TimDunkem]

Of course he does. I don't think the most enthusiastic Bonner supporter here believes he should start.

I'm sure that red-headed kid with a Bonner jersey at all the Spurs games would disagree with that.

[4RINGS]

I'm sure that red-headed kid with a Bonner jersey at all the Spurs games would disagree with that.


I didn't know Bonner had a son.... :lmao:lmao:lmao

[ElNono]

The Spurs spent most of that series leaving people open, because they chased the ball around the floor. The Mavericks' offense doesn't, nor has it ever, started with Dirk and you fucking know it. The biggest disruptor of the Spurs' defense was JJ Barea's penetration. And the reality of Kidd, Howard, Terry and anyone else under six and a half feet tall being wide open throughout the series had more to do with Mason and Finley's horrible defense coupled with Pop's refusal to play either Bowen or Hill until it was too late.

I'm sure everybody has their theories of who, what or why Dallas beat us.
The point is that suggesting that Bonner is the sole reason Dirk averaged 19 PPG against us is asinine. And extrapolating that to assume he's anything but a terrible interior defender is a flat out lie.
At the end of the day, both Barea and Howard beat us by finishing at the rim. We should have had two persons defending the paint, but only had one. And when Matt did manage to be there, he got abused even by freaking Dampier.
Do you need me to remind you the ridiculous flop he tried to pull on Erica instead of fouling him? That's Matt Bonner the interior defender.

Pop wanted a Horry replacement, and he thought he had it in Matt. Pop was flat out wrong.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Dirk didn't have to score. Howard, Terry, and Barea treating Finley and Mase as turnstyles all series long took care of that.

[Spursmania]

We got our asses handed to us by the Mavs. Yes, we were limping along and didn't have all our big three healthy. This year there should be no more excuses. And, we need some real presence.

Bonner's role was too big for him. The Spurs should either trade Bonner in an exchange that only benefits the team as a whole or they sit his ass on the bench, and hope he shoots the way he did regular season. He needs to get that scared look out of his face and produce. Hopefully, Pop will put him in less important situations, otherwise we're screwed.

Please I don't want to hear how great Bonner was during the regular season. Who gives a rats ass about the regular season. If you can't produce during the playoffs-gtfo. This is a business. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

[Ace9]

We got our asses handed to us by the Mavs. Yes, we were limping along and didn't have all our big three healthy. This year there should be no more excuses. And, we need some real presence.

Bonner's role was too big for him. The Spurs should either trade Bonner in an exchange that only benefits the team as a whole or they sit his ass on the bench, and hope he shoots the way he did regular season. He needs to get that scared look out of his face and produce. Hopefully, Pop will put him in less important situations, otherwise we're screwed.

Please I don't want to hear how great Bonner was during the regular season. Who gives a rats ass about the regular season. If you can't produce during the playoffs-gtfo. This is a business. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Dam straight. We should definitely improve on our weakest links. If we acqiure Wallace, then I would have no problem with Bonner out. Maybe we could package something together and strike a deal, perhaps. Anything to improve.

[z0sa]

We must have seen a different season. Bonner was routinely abused, and on top of that could not grab a board to save his life. If his shot was not falling (pretty much every game since January), then he was detriment to the team.
Then again, my point is not about his abilities. I'm wondering if he's the guy that could be moved to offset some salary now that we're going to be on lux tax territory. I don't really mind him at the end of the bench.

LMAO @ Bonner's shots not falling after January. He was nailing shots til the very end of the season, and did so in game 2 of the Mavs series as well.

Bonner will not be gone, ladies. To those who know the game best, he more than exceeded expectations for last season - the fact he "choked" in the playoffs had much, much more to do with him burning the Mavs in game 2. They made sure to run him off the 3pt line from that point on, we all know he's a fairly one dimensional player who knew he would get himself into trouble trying to dribble. For a first round curbstomping (yeah, that's what the Mavs did in case you forgot) Bonner's first real playoffs were hopeful, IMO.



Package/Trade him for something better? Absolutely. But as a bench cog bigman, he could prove invaluable, especially with his knowledge of the system. Additionally, ignore the blatant lying like above. Bonner WILL hit shots. You CANNOT leave him open. That is a great asset, in a bigman, to have.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm sure everybody has their theories of who, what or why Dallas beat us.
The point is that suggesting that Bonner is the sole reason Dirk averaged 19 PPG against us is asinine. And extrapolating that to assume he's anything but a terrible interior defender is a flat out lie.
At the end of the day, both Barea and Howard beat us by finishing at the rim. We should have had two persons defending the paint, but only had one. And when Matt did manage to be there, he got abused even by freaking Dampier.
Do you need me to remind you the ridiculous flop he tried to pull on Erica instead of fouling him? That's Matt Bonner the interior defender.

Pop wanted a Horry replacement, and he thought he had it in Matt. Pop was flat out wrong.

I never suggested Bonner was the sole reason Dirk averaged 19 ppg, but he's been a good defender all year long, and there's nothing from the Mavs series that changes that, even failing to wrap up Dampier on a single play. You seem to be suggesting that Bonner's not worth being on the team because people scored in the paint.

My contention is that Bonner shouldn't have been the one playing critical minutes being counted on to block shots, which he clearly cannot do. That's not a failure by Bonner, it's partially a failure by the people that put the team in the position where he was being asked to do so many things that are outside his skillset, and partially bad luck that Oberto developed heart problems. If the Spurs can get people to do those other jobs, Bonner suddenly becomes a gigantic asset to this team. Don't pretend like he can't shoot.

[ElNono]

I never suggested Bonner was the sole reason Dirk averaged 19 ppg, but he's been a good defender all year long, and there's nothing from the Mavs series that changes that, even failing to wrap up Dampier on a single play. You seem to be suggesting that Bonner's not worth being on the team because people scored in the paint.

How could you claim he's a good defender when he can't block a shot (admitted by yourself), he can't bang with the big guys (Duncan and Thomas did that all season long), he can't box out and grab a rebound to save his life (numbers don't lie). What is he exactly good at on defense?
With the exception of the start of the season when both Tony and Manu were injured, and TD played out of his mind, our interior defense has been the worse since Tim joined out team. Bonner was the starter and played the most minutes alongside Tim. You're telling me it's a coincidence?


My contention is that Bonner shouldn't have been the one playing critical minutes being counted on to block shots, which he clearly cannot do. That's not a failure by Bonner, it's partially a failure by the people that put the team in the position where he was being asked to do so many things that are outside his skillset, and partially bad luck that Oberto developed heart problems. If the Spurs can get people to do those other jobs, Bonner suddenly becomes a gigantic asset to this team.


He was given a role and he sucked at it. I do agree that Pop should have reversed course earlier, and I would even argue I don't understand why they even rented Gooden if he was not going to get some of his minutes.


Don't pretend like he can't shoot.

If he can only shoot when wide open, like Mason, Finley, Bowen, possibly the new kid we just drafted, possibly Rasheed if he comes around, etc, then that's exactly where the question that originated this thread comes about: Is a one trick pony that can only shoot when wide open and a liability on defense worth $6 million dollars?

[ElNono]

LMAO @ Bonner's shots not falling after January. He was nailing shots til the very end of the season, and did so in game 2 of the Mavs series as well.

I'm sorry, but if we have to wait to be up 25 points and the other team start gambling in order for him to take a shot, then he's not really useful.

[Obstructed_View]

With the exception of the start of the season when both Tony and Manu were injured, and TD played out of his mind, our interior defense has been the worse since Tim joined out team. Bonner was the starter and played the most minutes alongside Tim. You're telling me it's a coincidence?

:bang

Bonner is not a starter, much less a starting center. Bonner should not be defending the elite starting power forwards in this league. Bonner should not be getting extended minutes guarding the paint, or guarding the opponent's best big to keep Duncan out of foul trouble.

Put Parker in the post defending Kobe. He's going to get lit up. Is that because Parker is a horrible defender? No.

We know you don't like Bonner, but he's here. If he's in a position where he can utilize his strengths, he can contribute. He's a good shooter, a good energy guy playing spot minutes, and he can hold his own on defense. If you don't believe me just watch him this year. If he can't hack it, then he'll get Benoed.

[ElNono]

:bang

Bonner is not a starter, much less a starting center. Bonner should not be defending the elite starting power forwards in this league.


Agreed, he's simply unable do that.


Bonner should not be getting extended minutes guarding the paint, or guarding the opponent's best big to keep Duncan out of foul trouble.

Except he didn't do that. Duncan and KT guarded Shaq, KG, Gasol, Howard, etc. Matt can't guard any of them.


Put Parker in the post defending Kobe. He's going to get lit up. Is that because Parker is a horrible defender? No.


There's a difference here. Parker can keep up with guards.
Matt is too big to guard in the perimeter, and too weak to guard the interior.



We know you don't like Bonner, but he's here.


That's actually not accurate at all. I had the luck to meet him, and he seems a very personable and nice guy. He's a funny guy to boot. I don't have a problem with him on a reduced role at the end of the bench. My question is about people's opinion as to wether he's worth $6 million for that reduced role.


If he's in a position where he can utilize his strengths, he can contribute. He's a good shooter, a good energy guy playing spot minutes, and he can hold his own on defense. If you don't believe me just watch him this year. If he can't hack it, then he'll get Benoed.

I think he can only do that against lesser teams. That is, none of the teams that end up making the playoffs. We obviously disagree in this point, and I'm ok with that.

[Obstructed_View]

Except he didn't do that. Duncan and KT guarded Shaq, KG, Gasol, Howard, etc. Matt can't guard any of them.

Not exactly right. Duncan guarded Shaq, but Bonner had to guard Amare. Duncan guarded Bynum while Bonner guarded Gasol. Duncan guarded Oden while Bonner guarded Aldridge. All of them are going to overmatch him. The best thing to do in those situations is try not to give up ground, don't let them go around you and make sure there's a hand in their face when they shoot. That constitutes good defense, and Bonner does that very very well. You make a guy have to work to score on you, and Bonner's inability to shut down guys who don't get shut down was not the reason the Spurs completely sucked last year.

And no, he's clearly not worth the money he's paid. I don't agree with Pop's ridiculous blindspot to the flaws of anyone that can shoot a ball from 24 feet away, and I'd have never brought him here. That said, I absolutely refuse to sit by while the Spurs drive his value down to nothing and have to spend money to get rid of him. Instead I'd like to see him put in a position to contribute something to a championship team. If Jaren Jackson and Steve Kerr could do it, hell if Speedy Claxton could do it, I think Matt Bonner could too.

[4RINGS]

Don't worry, Bonner is on the last year of his contract and the Spurs will not re-sign him next year. If/when we add a big with out MLE his minutes will go way down just like Fab's did last year. IF he does not improve his D he could be out of the league sooner than later. Bye bye Red Rocket.