Next Moves

[Trimble87]

I believe the salaries match if we trade Mason/Finley/Bonner for Battier. With the signing of Malik and Mcclinton I think this gives us the option to deal Mason. Battier would be a perfect fit for the spurs imho.

[anjlbitz]

I don't know. I'm kinda iffy about dealing Mason. We still need a proven 3 point shooter to spread the floor for Tim/Tony/Manu/RJ. I think his defense will improve this year too especially with a year under his belt to work on his defensive rotations.

[coyotes_geek]

I don't know. I'm kinda iffy about dealing Mason. We still need a proven 3 point shooter to spread the floor for Tim/Tony/Manu/RJ. I think his defense will improve this year too especially with a year under his belt to work on his defensive rotations.

I'm with you. If I'm going to include Mason in a deal it's got to be for someone a lot more special than the names currently being thrown around. I don't want a bench consiting of one big name and a bunch of guys with zero to one years of nba experience.

[Buddy Holly]

You can get Battier for just Finley and Bonner.

[ChumpDumper]

While I don't doubt that RC is doing his due diligence in exploring trade opportunities ultimately, I don't see a trade happening. At least not one that isn't just a salary dump of Finley and/or Bonner. I'm certainly all in favor of RC pulling something off, but in all likelihood I think the roster is pretty much set with the only task remaining being a sifting through the various youngins and league min vets to round out the last couple of roster spots.I think you're right. There might be a vet PG signing, but I don't see much else happening until training camp is sorted out.

I could certainly be wrong, but there has already been a lot of roster turnover.

[urunobili]

Charlotte may say yes to get Bonner and Fin for Raja... after all Fin and MJ are close... he is a Jordan brand athlete...

[Flux451]

I've always wished that Jeff "the Enforcer" Foster was a Spur. He's not the most talented guy out there, but he outhustles anyone. He also has a pretty slick dunk over Corey Maggette that I never get sick of seeing.

http://www.memoram.com/Forest_whiteManCanJump.jpg

as long as he isn't playing in the clutch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Mh4OswKow

[anjlbitz]

Are the Bobcats even shopping Raja Bell? I admit I'm not too familiar with the Bobcats team so I don't know how they are currently built.

[loveforthegame]

Charlotte tried to trade Bell to the Warriors for Azubuike and Belinelli right before the draft. It's more likely they'd want Mason over Finley.

[pad300]

In terms of what's next. The big question is the number of inexperienced players (rookies/players w/o at least 1 full year of NBA court time). Consider who's locked in

PG - Parker, Hill (possibly as a wing not a PG)

Wing - Jefferson, Manu, Mason, Hairston (we signed him for a reason), Finley, Williams

Big - Duncan, McDyess, Blair, Mahinmi, Haislip (he'll be given a serious chance given we spent the LLE on him, rather than the min), Bonner

Green indicates players that I think the FO would consider trade-bait. Red indicates inexperienced.
We have 14 contracts (2 unguaranteed - Williams, Hairston). Without subtractions from the roster, we have space for perhaps a PG. 5 inexperienced players already; I cannot see Pop carrying more. Without a subtraction, there will not be another inexperienced player. We only have 3 experienced bigs, and one of those is potential trade-bait. Given Pop sees Gist as a 4, back to Europe he goes. McClinton and Williams might have a competition, but unless one of them can take the 3ed PG spot, one of them is going to Europe (my bet is McClinton, so we retain his rights).

I can see the Spurs making cost-cutting moves with their trade bait contracts, or just moves to free up a roster spot (or spots). Anyone brought in will be experienced veterans. Possible targets would include former Spurs who know the system eg. Bruce (if bought out), Oberto, Rasho, KT (if bought out). I could very well see SAS moving Finley and Bonner for a trade exception, and then bringing in Bruce and KT (assuming buyouts) for the vet min. Thereby saving roughly 4 million in salary (and another 4 million in lux tax) and putting defensive roleplayers in place to support the more attack minded roster.

[scottspurs]

Last season was his first opportunity to get minutes with the Spurs. Before that he was stuck behind a logjam of bigs. By all accounts the Spurs intended for him to get minutes last season, with Bonner as the 5th big. Factor in Oberto's decline and he could very well have had a shot at being the 1st big off the bench before the Spurs added Gooden.

I fail to see how Mahinmi, coming off a successful NBDL season in 2007-08, is somehow on the way out simply because due to injury and roster limitations he hasn't progressed as fast as some fans would like.

Yeah, Mahinmi has to much Potentiel to let him go. Let him see some action then judge him.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Can Bell guard Kobe? How does Bell do against him?

[urunobili]

Can Bell guard Kobe? How does Bell do against him?

second best after Bowen

[DesignatedT]

Do we still have the LLE? i was under the impression that we have spent both the MLE(dice) and LLE(haislip) but not totally sure.


so we really have no money left for free agency but i would like to see us sign bruce back for the min. and call it an offseason and start concentrating on the young talent everyone knows that we have on our SL team and start to develop them for this upcoming season...

Everyone knows our roster looks great with Dice and RJ and Mahinmi and Haislip and Blair but people need to remember that none of these players i have listed has playedany recognizable minutes for the spurs... thats a lot of work we have to do with teaching these guys how to play with tony manu and tim.... going out and overhalling our whole lineup by getting 1 or 2 more new faces isnt the best thing to do IMO. thats why im for keeping bonner,finley and bowen. they know the system and there role SHOULD be way down from last year. which i have no problem with.


:flag:

[GooberNuts]

Do we still have the LLE? i was under the impression that we have spent both the MLE(dice) and LLE(haislip) but not totally sure.


so we really have no money left for free agency but i would like to see us sign bruce back for the min. and call it an offseason and start concentrating on the young talent everyone knows that we have on our SL team and start to develop them for this upcoming season...

Everyone knows our roster looks great with Dice and RJ and Mahinmi and Haislip and Blair but people need to remember that none of these players i have listed has playedany recognizable minutes for the spurs... thats a lot of work we have to do with teaching these guys how to play with tony manu and tim.... going out and overhalling our whole lineup by getting 1 or 2 more new faces isnt the best thing to do IMO. thats why im for keeping bonner,finley and bowen. they know the system and there role SHOULD be way down from last year. which i have no problem with.


:flag:

Agreed, I don't think the Spurs should really mix up the roster anymore. Only move they should make is possibly signing Bowen for the min, because other than that we have a lot of new players who need to learn the system. Keeping the chemistry together is an important part of any championship team. Remember when the Lakers brought in Malone and Payton and everyone thought they were a lock for the chmpionship. In the past the Spurs have one with the big 3 dominating and the role-players doing their individual parts to contribute.

[will_spurs]

Yeah, Mahinmi has to much Potentiel to let him go. Let him see some action then judge him.

Especially since the Spurs have already invested quite a bit of money in this guy, it's certainly not the time to cut him when he might finally contribute - let's rather wait a bit and see.

[Spursmania]

Do we still have the LLE? i was under the impression that we have spent both the MLE(dice) and LLE(haislip) but not totally sure.
:flag:


According to McDonald:rolleyes, Haislip will be receiving the minimum. So, the Spurs still have their LLE to spend if they so choose.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

To steal Ruff's abbreviation, Bonley for Foster would be a great pickup.

It's fitting, don't you think? :lol


I don't understand why so many Spurs fans are obsessing with the idea that the Spurs need "length to contend with the Lakers". Sure, the Lakers are a tall team but it's mostly finesse size. Gasol, Odom and Bynum aren't power players.

In fact, those who watched the playoffs should realize that it was the midget Rockets who gave those bigs the most trouble. 6-foot-5 Chuck Hayes was probably the best defender in the playoffs against Gasol.

To beat the Lakers, I think you need bigs with strength and quickness. You can push around their bigs a bit if you have the right personnel. I think the Spurs realized this and that's why they've talked about toughness at power forward as their goal in acquisitions rather than just going after giant centers with size.

A key for matching up against the Lakers will be Blair. If he can improve his defense and learn to be a physical defender without fouling, he has the body type to do well against both Gasol and Bynum. McDyess should be good against Gasol and Bynum. Haislip has the skillset that makes me think he was brought in with Odom in mind.

I said the same thing about Blair in the NBA forum, referencing Malik Rose's ability to guard big centres effectively. My only resefrvation is that Blair will probably be called for all kinds of phantom "rookie fouls" which might hamper his ability to guard people.

I think Dice, Blair and TD will prove very capable against Gasol and Bynum, and I hope you are right about Haislip because, if you aren't, we still lack a guy to throw at the athletic PFs like Odom and West.


Meh. I wouldn't match that if I were the Spurs. This time last year, Dahntay Jones was playing in summer league trying to keep his basketball career alive. He had a good season but his offense is highly limited.

On top of that, he was horrible at guarding Kobe in the playoffs. Kobe lit him up. He could easily shoot over Jones and also beat him to the basket. George Karl saw what was happening and rarely put Jones on Kobe in the second half of games. He'd even put AC on Kobe late in games before Jones.

Jones did fine work against CP3 but if the Spurs spend that kind of money on a perimeter defender, they have a pulse when it comes to defending Kobe.

Yeah, I just reported it trying to be helpful. :)

Only put it in here though, and forgot he had a thread of his own! :lol

Strange signing for Indy, really. Good though. At least he didn't go to a contender.

[barbacoataco]

If you look at the Lakers at as the team to beat, you need to have players in mind to limit Bryant and Gasol. I really thought Gasol was the difference this year in the playoffs. He was much better than I expected and really came up with shots when they needed it. I like the idea of Raja Bell to defend Kobe. Hopefully either Mahinmi, Blair or Haislip will prove effective. Plus they have TD and Dyess.

[loveforthegame]

Any interest in Chris Mihm?

[will_spurs]

According to McDonald:rolleyes, Haislip will be receiving the minimum. So, the Spurs still have their LLE to spend if they so choose.

Actually people thought the Spurs had spent their BAE (about $2 mil) but McDonald reports the Spurs actually signed him for the vet's minimum ($800k) which is even better. So the Spurs still have their BAE... but are over the lux tax. I'm obviously not the only one who thinks (hopes?) a trade is coming.

[Blackjack]

I don't understand why so many Spurs fans are obsessing with the idea that the Spurs need "length to contend with the Lakers". Sure, the Lakers are a tall team but it's mostly finesse size. Gasol, Odom and Bynum aren't power players.

In fact, those who watched the playoffs should realize that it was the midget Rockets who gave those bigs the most trouble. 6-foot-5 Chuck Hayes was probably the best defender in the playoffs against Gasol.

To beat the Lakers, I think you need bigs with strength and quickness. You can push around their bigs a bit if you have the right personnel. I think the Spurs realized this and that's why they've talked about toughness at power forward as their goal in acquisitions rather than just going after giant centers with size.

A key for matching up against the Lakers will be Blair. If he can improve his defense and learn to be a physical defender without fouling, he has the body type to do well against both Gasol and Bynum. McDyess should be good against Gasol and Bynum. Haislip has the skillset that makes me think he was brought in with Odom in mind.

I don't disagree with your premise that length isn't the be-all end-all but the combination of strength, technique, know-how, and respect of the whistle is a hard combination to come by; the attributes an undersized big like Hayes successfully utilizes. I think depending on a foul-prone player like Blair, who's already got his rookie status going against him, would be a very dicey proposition.

Ideally, you'd want a guy like Perkins: 6' 10'', long arms, physical, and someone who can body-up while also challenging the shot. Foster's probably the only player I've heard suggested that about meets that criteria.

I think you also have to prepare for the Bynum of mid-season last year. Sure, he's got to prove that he's capable of staying healthy but he's a guy that's definitely capable of punishing smaller defenders. He's pretty calm in his moves and able to absorb contact while finishing over smaller defenders. Guys that don't pose much of a threat to his release don't seem to bother him much when he's playing the way he's capable. Really, both Pau and Bynum are skilled and coordinated enough to finish over just about anyone when they're on their game, but with the what the Spurs have on their current roster, I'd like to see one more 6' 10'' (or greater) banger.

[bigdog]

Any interest in Chris Mihm?

I'll take Gooden before Mihm. Mihm hasn't been healthy in forever.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Any interest in Chris Mihm?

If we want a guy for 6 fouls, I think an ex-Spur (Rasho, Oberto) would be a better fit for the min.

[poeticism707]

If we want a guy for 6 fouls, I think an ex-Spur (Rasho, Oberto) would be a better fit for the min.

Let's go with Rasho!!!

[Thompson]

Yeah, Mahinmi has to much Potentiel to let him go. Let him see some action then judge him.

I remember reading some quote from a scout on Mahinmi on this website, something to the effect of 'he could be a great player for the Spurs' when Mahinmi was playing in the NBDL (remember, also, that Mahinmi was the MVP or whatever of the NBDL; that or the highest rated D-League center, I can't remember which).

There's no way you lose him just because he had a nagging injury they couldn't figure out until it was too late last year. He could be a good player, just give him a decent shot.

[poeticism707]

I remember reading some quote from a scout on Mahinmi on this website, something to the effect of 'he could be a great player for the Spurs' when Mahinmi was playing in the NBDL (remember, also, that Mahinmi was the MVP or whatever of the NBDL; that or the highest rated D-League center, I can't remember which).

There's no way you lose him just because he had a nagging injury they couldn't figure out until it was too late last year. He could be a good player, just give him a decent shot.

I agree: he should get his chance: after that, it's up to him.

[mountainballer]

Charlotte tried to trade Bell to the Warriors for Azubuike and Belinelli right before the draft. It's more likely they'd want Mason over Finley.

Bell for Azubuike plus Belinelli obviously was a try to upgrade in the first place and not to get rid of Bell.
Bell for Finley plus Bonner would be a downgrade for the Bobcats and since it doesn't have any positive effects for their payroll, it doesn't make any sense at all. (same goes for the package of Mason+Bonner). Spurs would need to add a teaser to get this done. if this needs to be a future 1st rounder, or the Splitter rights, I would pass.

btw. what about Deshawn Stevenson?
not that he is on the block, but the Wizards back court was already pretty crowded last year, even without Arenas and now the Wizards brought in two more guards (both much more talented) for 3 bigs.
at least they will be open to listen to offers for Stevenson.
(they might want Mason back, but of course this doesn't help to balance the roster)
Stevenson for Bonner makes sense if they try to save some bucks immediately, (including lux tax this saves them 1.2 million this year) and they would save next years salary of him. and Bonner would pretty much be able to take the role of Songaila.
Stevenson would be (or at least could be) the stopper the Spurs back court could use well.

[poeticism707]

According to McDonald:rolleyes, Haislip will be receiving the minimum. So, the Spurs still have their LLE to spend if they so choose.
:hat

[Bruno]

The more I think about it, the more I like the Nocioni idea.
If Holt is fine with taking another quite big contract, Nocioni would be a nice fit with current Spurs roster.

For the perimeter defense, I'm fine with Bowen for the min and Hairston as his disciple.

[Bruno]

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090710/SPORTS0102/907100397/1127/SPORTS0102/Jonas-Jerebko-shines-in-scrimmage


There's a good chance the Pistons are looking to clear another $2 million off their payroll. That would give them close to $4 million to pursue another frontcourt player in the wake of Antonio McDyess going to the San Antonio Spurs. Brandon Bass (Dallas Mavericks) and Glen Davis (Boston Celtics) are two possibilities.

To clear the space, the Pistons most likely will try to move Arron Afflalo and Sharpe.

Spurs can offer Marcus Williams non-guaranteed contract for Afflalo.

[mountainballer]

just read something very interesting:

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090710/SPORTS0102/907100397/1127/SPORTS0102/Jonas-Jerebko-shines-in-scrimmage


There's a good chance the Pistons are looking to clear another $2 million off their payroll. That would give them close to $4 million to pursue another frontcourt player in the wake of Antonio McDyess going to the San Antonio Spurs. Brandon Bass (Dallas Mavericks) and Glen Davis (Boston Celtics) are two possibilities.

To clear the space, the Pistons most likely will try to move Arron Afflalo and Sharpe.

the most interesting point for the Spurs and the Pistons:
Afflalo could be traded straight for Williams and (as far as I know) the contract of Williams isn't guaranteed, so he could be waived and the Pistons clear 1.1 million $ cap space.
(confirmation Bruno? Coyote Geeks?)
this would be a very nice move to get the younger version of Raja Bell.
Afflalo showed some nice improvement last season, shot 40% from outside and played decent in the POs. (except his 3pt shot wasn't falling)
he is as much Spurs material as any player and he has all the tools to become the future perimeter stopper for the Spurs. (could be an ' or 2 taller though).
still young at 23, but meanwhile some experience (2 seasons).
Spurs could add some teasers like future 2nd rounders or DeColo rights if needed.

edit::lol while I wrote someone did have the same idea.....

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Bell for Azubuike plus Belinelli obviously was a try to upgrade in the first place and not to get rid of Bell.
Bell for Finley plus Bonner would be a downgrade for the Bobcats and since it doesn't have any positive effects for their payroll, it doesn't make any sense at all. (same goes for the package of Mason+Bonner). Spurs would need to add a teaser to get this done. if this needs to be a future 1st rounder, or the Splitter rights, I would pass.

btw. what about Deshawn Stevenson?
not that he is on the block, but the Wizards back court was already pretty crowded last year, even without Arenas and now the Wizards brought in two more guards (both much more talented) for 3 bigs.
at least they will be open to listen to offers for Stevenson.
(they might want Mason back, but of course this doesn't help to balance the roster)
Stevenson for Bonner makes sense if they try to save some bucks immediately, (including lux tax this saves them 1.2 million this year) and they would save next years salary of him. and Bonner would pretty much be able to take the role of Songaila.
Stevenson would be (or at least could be) the stopper the Spurs back court could use well.

Agree about Bell but I don't think trading Bonner for Stevenson makes much sense for the Spurs. It'd leave our frontcourt very thin and I'm not sure we'd be able to find a good veteran for the min or LLE ( maybe Rasho? ). Haislip, Blair and Mahinmi are too inexperienced and while some of them might be able to become a significant part of the rotation there are too many question marks and risks, so a decent 4th/5th swingman like Stevenson is not worth it IMO.

Bonner, while not great , is a solid big who knows our system and would ease the rookies' transition into the rotation, giving them time and room for mistakes. It's also worth noting that bringing too many new faces at the same time might take a while until they all fit in and this is another risk.

Stevenson would also limit Hill's chance to play off the ball and Pop has stressed a few times already that this is a role Hill might find himself in quite a lot. Bowen, of course , is still an option as a defensive wing ( I hope ).

[spurspokesman]

Nice take. I hadn't thought about Bell too much but he makes a pretty good amount of sense. The Bobcats have been shopping him and may be interested in opening up playing time for younger prospects. With RC saying that the Spurs want to add a defensive piece to the perimeter, Bell would be one of the best fits in the league.

And yeah, a trade wouldn't be too surprising. The Haislip signing was somewhat odd if there wasn't more planned. Add in Gist saying he'll make the team and there very well could be something in the works.

+1000 Tim. Somebody is going packing.

[spurspokesman]

second best after Bowen

agree partially. Battier runs a close first with bell.

[Mark in Austin]

I'm not sure what it'd take. The Bobcats have been trying to use his expiring contract to get players other teams may want to salary dump. It'd be tricky because both teams would be offering expiring contracts :lol

Maybe send a pick? The best hope is probably Bell telling the Bobcats that he wants a legit chance at a championship and LB liking Bonner and Finley for some whatever reason. Sometimes LB likes to trade just to trade so there's a chance . . .

yeah... looking at it last night there wasn't a two team trade that made sense for the Bobcats. Looks like they're already at or slightly over the cap, so unless the Spurs send a chunk of cash the Bonner + Finley trade would mean the Bobcats would be taking in more salary than they send out. Unless they really feel like the owe Bell, I just don't see them going for it.

Maybe the Van Horn loophole is still open and Horry hasn't officially retired yet? The Spurs sign him to a 1year, 4.1 million dollar contract & send him to Charlotte with a pick. Not sure if its possible but if they only did a partially guaranteed 1-yr deal it might make it more attractive for Bob Johnson. But that adds another 10+million in salary and lux tax to a payroll already in luxury tax territory, and I think that's more than even the new big spending Spurs can absorb.

[urunobili]

The more I think about it, the more I like the Nocioni idea.
If Holt is fine with taking another quite big contract, Nocioni would be a nice fit with current Spurs roster.

For the perimeter defense, I'm fine with Bowen for the min and Hairston as his disciple.

:drool::drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:

[Marcus Bryant]

The more I think about it, the more I like the Nocioni idea.
If Holt is fine with taking another quite big contract, Nocioni would be a nice fit with current Spurs roster.

Well, that's the question. Are the Spurs planning on simply letting Finley and Bonner's contracts expire to keep the growth in payroll down a little from the 2009-10 season to 2010-11? They'll have Ginobili to re-sign next summer and I suppose Splitter will be brought in as well. I don't believe Manu's salary will change that much (perhaps a couple million less than this season).

Nocioni would fit very well indeed.




For the perimeter defense, I'm fine with Bowen for the min and Hairston as his disciple.

That might be the plan.

[tp2021]

If the Spurs are still talking to Oberto, wouldn't the FO need another 2-1 or 3-1 trade to have enough space for Oberto AND Bowen on the roster?

[hater]

I don't think it's a good idea to bring Gooden. We already have tons of big guys fighting for minutes, Gooden would just disrupt it all.

IMO, we need a veteran backup PG. Bobby Jackson someone mentioned, would be perfect. We need some PG insurance.

Then I'd sign Bowen and call it an offseason.

Midseason would try to move Bonner, and 1 or 2 other guys for a big name. If necessary

[GSH]

The problem with some of these trade ideas is how much they would cost, since the team is already in the lux tax. Any of these deals where the incoming salary is more than that of the player(s) sent out would be damned expensive.

Use the trade of Bonner+Finley for Battier, for example. (Never mind whether Houston would do it.) The salaries are within 125%, so the trade would work. But if we got Battier's $6.8M salary, and then filled the roster spot with Marcus Williams, the out-of-pocket cost to Holt would be about $3.9 Million. That's right... Holt could have Bonner and Finley on the roster, or Battier and Williams + 3.9 Milllion bucks in the bank.

I think that any trade that increases the overall size of the payroll would have to give a clear-cut, immediate improvement to the team's chances of winning it all next year. Considering the number of minutes each would play, would Battier+Williams really be a $3.9M improvement over Bonner+Finley?



If the Spurs are still talking to Oberto, wouldn't the FO need another 2-1 or 3-1 trade to have enough space for Oberto AND Bowen on the roster?


Bowen could be signed for a 1-year, league minimum contract now. Minimum contracts can be offered even if the team is over the cap. And, since he's been in the league 10+ years, that would be $1.3M. BUT... the league would pick up all but $825K of his salary. And only the $825K would apply to the team salary for lux tax purposes. The way I see it, he would be a bargain right now.

[mfanatic]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kvjpyy

GSW Get a younger SG that expires, and a "big man" that expires that can stretch the floor.

Tony/Hill/Mcclinton
Manu/Jackson/
Jefferson/Haistron
Duncan/Blair/Gist
Big Mike/Ian/Hailsip

[Darkwaters]

Who is Big Mike?

[ajballer4]

Big Mike is mcdyess

[Darkwaters]

Big Mike is mcdyess


Well I figured it out. But I've never heard him called that.

[Knoxxx]

I don't believe Manu's salary will change that much (perhaps a couple million less than this season).

Everyone loves Manu so we need to find a way to keep him, assuming of course he returns to form.

My hope there is that he takes a bit less pay for extra years on the deal, and/or a declining $ contract. In any event, I think he shapes up (again, if healthy) to be a much better deal than say RJ at $15 million per. Of course, the economics of the league have changed considerably, so RJ perhaps we can resign at $10 million/year, Manu $8 million.

The biggest question is does TP command the max salary, and if so will we be willing and able to pay it? Important sidenote, does Duncan stay on after 2012, and if so for how much? Things could remain interesting if the new "core four" stick around, remain productive, but are willing to play for reasonable salaries. Duncan at the Veteran's min anyone?

[tp2021]

Bowen could be signed for a 1-year, league minimum contract now. Minimum contracts can be offered even if the team is over the cap. And, since he's been in the league 10+ years, that would be $1.3M. BUT... the league would pick up all but $825K of his salary. And only the $825K would apply to the team salary for lux tax purposes. The way I see it, he would be a bargain right now.

I wasn't talking about financial reasons keeping Bruce out. I meant that the Spurs can only take 15 guys into the season.

Tim
Manu
Tony
DeJuan Blair
Matt Bonner
Michael Finley
Malik Hairston
Marcus Haislip
George Hill
Richard Jefferson
Ian Mahinmi
Roger Mason
Jack McClinton
Antonio McDyess
Marcus Williams
James Gist

If Gist stays in Italy for 1 more year, and the Spurs waive Williams, that leaves 1 roster spot open. So if Oberto is offered a contract, Finley+Bonner for one player would be needed for Bruce to have a spot. Everyone else seems set, except mainly Hairston and perhaps Haislip. EDIT: McClinton is also a player most likely to be cut.

[tp2021]

Duncan at the Veteran's min anyone?

If Timmy's game ever declined to the point where that was an acceptable salary, he would have retired long before that.

[Darkwaters]

I think Hairston and McClinton might be fighting over the same roster spot. I just don't see how all the roster spots will work.

[Knoxxx]

If Timmy's game ever declined to the point where that was an acceptable salary, he would have retired long before that.

I was talking more about a Karl Malone-type situation, where he really is worth more but just doesn't need the dough. Assume he's still having fun logging 20-25 mins a night, maybe giving 12 and 8 or so. Wants another ring or two, that type of deal.

I just notice on Hoopshype he is down for $21.3 million salary in 2011/12. Sure he deserves it for career achievement and taking less than he could have, but still YUCK!!!!!!! No way we can have two guys on the roster making $20 million+ (TP) at the same time, can we?

[kbrury]

I think Hairston and McClinton might be fighting over the same roster spot. I just don't see how all the roster spots will work.

Depends on if they trade Bonner and Finley, but I think they'll evaluate the abilities of the rookies and the results will dictate what they will target with a trade. but who knows

[tp2021]

No way we can have two guys on the roster making $20 million+ (TP) at the same time, can we?

You can when they are the present and future of your franchise.

[Knoxxx]

You can when they are the present and future of your franchise.

Duncan is not likely to be the present of the franchise in 2012 and worth $21 million. Oh well, at least we don't have another 2-3 years of paying him $20 million after that, like Shaq keeps getting. Will be interesting to see how much longer Shaq sticks around, and for what kind of pay. Veteran's min for Shaq anyone?

[pad300]

I was talking more about a Karl Malone-type situation, where he really is worth more but just doesn't need the dough. Assume he's still having fun logging 20-25 mins a night, maybe giving 12 and 8 or so. Wants another ring or two, that type of deal.

I just notice on Hoopshype he is down for $21.3 million salary in 2011/12. Sure he deserves it for career achievement and taking less than he could have, but still YUCK!!!!!!! No way we can have two guys on the roster making $20 million+ (TP) at the same time, can we?


TP won't get 20 million. The only reason Duncan can get it is that his contract is an extension of one under the previous CBA. Also, TP's contract won't be under the current CBA, rather there will be a new CBA negotiated by then. Manu's expiring (after this season) will likely be the last major contract the Spurs negotiate under the current CBA.

[DaBears]

NO!!!!! time too let Bowen GO........... RIP BOWEN..... You dont have to go home but you cant stay here!!!
Anyone know whats up with the Ime Udoka drama is he on his way or or stayin put...

[Knoxxx]

TP won't get 20 million. The only reason Duncan can get it is that his contract is an extension of one under the previous CBA. Also, TP's contract won't be under the current CBA, rather there will be a new CBA negotiated by then. Manu's expiring (after this season) will likely be the last major contract the Spurs negotiate under the current CBA.

Lucky for us, that may enable a long and bright future for TP with the Spurs!

The league does need to lower the max salary, there is too much disparity, IMO. The rich are getting too rich at the expense of some other solid team players without the big name recognition. Then you have those contracts like Finley's, where the player ends up being worth 50% or less the last couple of years of the deal. I think the league has already put in some kind of "over 35" rule to prevent that from happening much in the future.

[DaBears]

What if!! and this is a big What if, there was a trade that would involve Bonner, Finley and Ime Udoka for Tmac would anyone do this trade.

[DaBears]

Dont crucify me just thinking of ways for us to get TMAC here....

[Knoxxx]

Problem is TMac made $20 million last I checked. Salaries would then be too far off to even consider. No brainer other than that little detail that is a deal breaker.

[gmanrulz]

what about stackhouse

[Pucho!!!]

what about stackhouse

Could be an ironic move by the Spurs? Get Stack on the cheap, trade Fin and Bonner...Who knows this summer is full of surprises :flag:

[duncan228]

Grizzlies waived Stackhouse.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130980

[poeticism707]

Grizzlies waived Stackhouse.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130980

I guess that means the Lakers will sign him for the minimum...

[coyotes_geek]

These days Jerry Stackhouse is nothing more than Michael Finley with a worse 3 point stroke and a bad attitude.

[robert1886]

mase can shoot from inside the arc...what he is not good at is driving to the hoop

[coyotes_geek]

I really don't get the Mason hate that goes on here. He's a shooter. If he were a shooter, a slasher, a point guard, a defender and whatever else people are bitching about him not being he wouldn't be here. He'd be off somewhere else making $10 mil a year. Yes, he had an awful playoff series against Dallas. But for crying out loud, who in the NBA was under more pressure than he was last postseason? He comes here to be a role player and then all of a sudden he finds all of the Spurs playoff hopes depending on him being able to become Manu Ginobili. He wasn't up to the task of becoming Manu and now people hate him for it. That's pretty unfair.

/end rant

[poeticism707]

I really don't get the Mason hate that goes on here. He's a shooter. If he were a shooter, a slasher, a point guard, a defender and whatever else people are bitching about him not being he wouldn't be here. He'd be off somewhere else making $10 mil a year. Yes, he had an awful playoff series against Dallas. But for crying out loud, who in the NBA was under more pressure than he was last postseason? He comes here to be a role player and then all of a sudden he finds all of the Spurs playoff hopes depending on him being able to become Manu Ginobili. He wasn't up to the task of becoming Manu and now people hate him for it. That's pretty unfair.

/end rant

Agree: Mason will be much better this year in his proper role.

He was asked to do too much last year, and he did a pretty admirable throughout the season.

[MmP]

I'd love to have Nocioni. He's such a great player. He's being wasted in bad taems.

[poeticism707]

I'd love to have Nocioni. He's such a great player. He's being wasted in bad taems.

Yep, Noc would be great on the bench.

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

Pop and RC had at one time deeply coveted John Salmons as the long athletic 2/3 who is prolific scorer averaging 18.3 pts last year, but just as importantly he is well known as a more then capable defensive player not your Kobe stopper but then again there aren't many of those.

His salary is 5.1 mill per year but what may make this unworkable is that he has a 15% trade clause that would cost the acquiring team $2mill as a bonus for Salmons.

Back in Feb, the Spurs were offering Bruce and Udoka to the Kings before Chicago snatched him.

I don't know if a trade for him now would be feasible with the usual cast of characters mentioned in this thread, but if not would getting Nocioni be feasible? That would complete an awesome off season for the Spurs.

[kbrury]

He'll stay in Chicago especially after losing Ben Gordon.

[tmtcsc]

If you can get Battier for Splitter's rights, Bonner, Finley, and a first round 2010 pick Spurs don't won't to pay for, YOU DO IT.

YOU DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

:lol You have to be kidding. You give up 2 Bigs a 1st round pick and Finley for 1 player ? Give the Clippers a call. They could always use another GM.

[poeticism707]

:lol You have to be kidding. You give up 2 Bigs a 1st round pick and Finley for 1 player ? Give the Clippers a call. They could always use another GM.
:lol

That's how glad I'd be to be to get a perimeter defender for the likes of Kobe, Pierce, Lebron, etc.

Remember, the Spurs are in win now mode.

And Splitter might never come over, or come over and be terrible.

[Slinkyman]

:lol

That's how glad I'd be to be to get a perimeter defender for the likes of Kobe, Pierce, Lebron, etc.

Remember, the Spurs are in win now mode.

And Splitter might never come over, or come over and be terrible.

I'd offer Finley+Bonner and maybe a 2nd round pick and i'd throw in some cash for Battier. Houston is in full rebuild mode and would take the 7 million extra in cap space next season. You don't give 2 first rounders away for shane battier.

[poeticism707]

I'd offer Finley+Bonner and maybe a 2nd round pick and i'd throw in some cash for Battier. Houston is in full rebuild mode and would take the 7 million extra in cap space next season. You don't give 2 first rounders away for shane battier.
:toast

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Who is Big Mike?

Exactly.

Since his name is ANTONIO MCDYESS, which bears no resemblance to "Michael" or "Mike", why don't we all agree not to refer to him as "Big Mike"? :rolleyes :lol


Dont crucify me just thinking of ways for us to get TMAC here....

Why? Why not crucify you? Part of you obviously thinks T-Mac, first round veteran, would somehow fit here. He wouldn't... in any way. Bad, baaaaaad call.

Consider yourself gently crucified.


what about stackhouse

You should also be crucified, but I can't be bothered.

The name doth NOT maketh the man.


I would be shocked if Williams is a spur this year, Hasilip too. Bonner and Mason are no doubt on the block. I can see the spurs going hard after Camby who the Clips dont need or Kaman.

I can also see us looking at making a deal with Portland for Webster who is not in Portlands plans.

I guess it depends on if and what we use the LLE for. If we get a big we will likely trade for a SG/SF type........Maggette would be nice starting while Manu remains on the bench.

I am hoping for Camby, he gives us that rangy shot blocker we need who could teach Ian a thing or two about D.

If the Spurs dont upgrade at the 2 I will be a bit concerned. Mase just cannot defend, cannot get to the rim and cant shoot inside the arc!!!

Clips will probably keep Camby for the moment - Kaman, Camby, Griffin is their big rotation since Randolph was shipped. He might become available towards the deadline if they like what DeAndre Jordan is showing them.

Webster is pretty much a spot up shooter, earns ~5mil, contract goes to end of 2012. What do you see as his role?

Maggette, no freakin way, even if we had the contracts to get him. Overpaid until 2013 (9-11mil per) and breaking down as we speak. Also, one-dimensional. We traded for RJ, yeah? ;)

I don't get the Mason-bashing either. Dead-eye from 3, can spot up from 2. I remember him draining plenty of spot ups, and his Hot Spot chart confirms it. His D will improve after a year in the system - that happens with just about every new Spur.


Pop and RC had at one time deeply coveted John Salmons as the long athletic 2/3 who is prolific scorer averaging 18.3 pts last year, but just as importantly he is well known as a more then capable defensive player not your Kobe stopper but then again there aren't many of those.

His salary is 5.1 mill per year but what may make this unworkable is that he has a 15% trade clause that would cost the acquiring team $2mill as a bonus for Salmons.

Back in Feb, the Spurs were offering Bruce and Udoka to the Kings before Chicago snatched him.

I don't know if a trade for him now would be feasible with the usual cast of characters mentioned in this thread, but if not would getting Nocioni be feasible? That would complete an awesome off season for the Spurs.


He'll stay in Chicago especially after losing Ben Gordon.

Spot on. Let Gordon go, so they're going to trade their other starting SG?

[poeticism707]

He'll stay in Chicago especially after losing Ben Gordon.

True.

[exstatic]

If you can get Battier for Splitter's rights, Bonner, Finley, and a first round 2010 pick Spurs don't won't to pay for, YOU DO IT.

YOU DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

The only problem with that is that they can't actually trade that 2010 first rounder until after the selection is made. They traded their 2009 first rounder for Thomas, and you can't trade your actual pick two years in a row. That's why the Spurs usually set up a deal in advance, pick the player for the other team, and then trade that player's rights after they are picked. At one point, a former owner of the Cavs had traded like his next 4-5 first rounders for a bunch of has been drug addict players and the league stepped in to stop teams from completely mortgaging their futures.

[poeticism707]

The only problem with that is that they can't actually trade that 2010 first rounder until after the selection is made. They traded their 2009 first rounder for Thomas, and you can't trade your actual pick two years in a row. That's why the Spurs usually set up a deal in advance, pick the player for the other team, and then trade that player's rights after they are picked. At one point, a former owner of the Cavs had traded like his next 4-5 first rounders for a bunch of has been drug addict players and the league stepped in to stop teams from completely mortgaging their futures.
:lol

Well, trade them every other year for the next century!

No but seriously, I'd trade Bonner, Finley, Splitter and first, not all together but some combination, for an elite wing defender, but two way player as well.

First on the list is Raja Bell,

Second is Shane Battier.

I'd do it in a second.

That would really give the Spurs the edge against the Lakers.

[Knoxxx]

By my count we have 12 slots filled on the roster. I thought we could only carry 13, but maybe I am wrong and the number is 14. I'm quite sure it is not 15.

So the 12 we have:

PG: Parker/Hill
SG: Manu/Mason
SF: Jefferson/Finley/Bonner
PF: Duncan/Blair/Haislip
C: Ian/Dice

Maybe either Bonner or Haislip can play some SF I figure. If Haislip can play some 3 that will be nice because we may then see little if any of Bonner/Finley.

That leaves only 1-2 more spots. So i think it's Hairston/Williams/Gist/McClinton vying for those. Only way to avoid leaving 2-3 of them off the roster is trade Bonner/Finley/and possibly Mason for 1-2 (fewer players).

Main point here is absent a trade of two of those three, we probably only have one more roster spot, two at the most. Hairston/Williams/Gist/McClinton are longshots to make the team. Assuming no trade, I'd say we roster one of them and then another may get some 10-day looks, if I am understanding the situation correctly.

That's really a stacked looking roster to me. Still a possibiity of bringing in a veteran center via a trade. Would like to keep Mason around if possible, even if a McClinton were to emerge at SG. Should be fun to see who gets the last few roster spots, possible that no more deals happen.

Amazing that only 7 remain from last year, and that number could drop to even 4 or 3. Not saying I expect a Mason or Hill trade, but I'd say that number could easily drop to 5, 50/50 that Bonner/Finley stay with the team.

Unless/until Ian pans out or we get a replacement C, we need to hang onto Splitter's rights one more year and try to bring him in 2010. We're relying on some young and unproven players for C/PF depth, making the Dice signing all the more critical. Until Ian/Blair/Haislip question marks are answered, I'll be leaning towards more depth at C before I worry about SF. The big Lakers front line, after all, is our main obstacle at this point. I'd agree that Bell and Battier would be nice additions though, and to take them if we could.

[poeticism707]

By my count we have 12 slots filled on the roster. I thought we could only carry 13, but maybe I am wrong and the number is 14. I'm quite sure it is not 15.

So the 12 we have:

PG: Parker/Hill
SG: Manu/Mason
SF: Jefferson/Finley/Bonner
PF: Duncan/Blair/Haislip
C: Ian/Dice

Maybe either Bonner or Haislip can play some SF I figure. If Haislip can play some 3 that will be nice because we may then see little if any of Bonner/Finley.

That leaves only 1-2 more spots. So i think it's Hairston/Williams/Gist/McClinton vying for those. Only way to avoid leaving 2-3 of them off the roster is trade Bonner/Finley/and possibly Mason for 1-2 (fewer players).

Main point here is absent a trade of two of those three, we probably only have one more roster spot, two at the most. Hairston/Williams/Gist/McClinton are longshots to make the team. Assuming no trade, I'd say we roster one of them and then another may get some 10-day looks, if I am understanding the situation correctly.

That's really a stacked looking roster to me. Still a possibiity of bringing in a veteran center via a trade. Would like to keep Mason around if possible, even if a McClinton were to emerge at SG. Should be fun to see who gets the last few roster spots, possible that no more deals happen.

Amazing that only 7 remain from last year, and that number could drop to even 4 or 3. Not saying I expect a Mason or Hill trade, but I'd say that number could easily drop to 5, 50/50 that Bonner/Finley stay with the team.

Unless/until Ian pans out or we get a replacement C, we need to hang onto Splitter's rights one more year and try to bring him in 2010. We're relying on some young and unproven players for C/PF depth, making the Dice signing all the more critical. Until Ian/Blair/Haislip question marks are answered, I'll be leaning towards more depth at C before I worry about SF. The big Lakers front line, after all, is our main obstacle at this point. I'd agree that Bell and Battier would be nice additions though, and to take them if we could.

Excellent write up!

Do you think Ian is guaranteed to make the roster? It seems if he does not seriously show something this SL, he may be cut. I hope he does.

Let's say Ian earns a roster spot. I would think Hairston would have a spot as well as he's already been partially guaranteed, but I don't like the idea of McClinton not making the team, unless he totally bombs in SL.

Of course, if Ian doesn't prove himself, then both Hairston and McClinton will likely make the team, but we'll still with Ian had as well.

Anyway, I hope they all have such a PHENOMENAL performance, that Pop is forced to make one or two 2 for 1 deals just to make room!

[Slinkyman]

Just because Matt Bonner plays small doesn't make him a small forward.

[poeticism707]

Just because Matt Bonner plays small doesn't make him a small forward.

Bonner is mostly solid, but not more.

[AFBlue]

By my count we have 12 slots filled on the roster. I thought we could only carry 13, but maybe I am wrong and the number is 14. I'm quite sure it is not 15.

So the 12 we have:

PG: Parker/Hill
SG: Manu/Mason
SF: Jefferson/Finley/Bonner
PF: Duncan/Blair/Haislip
C: Ian/Dice

Maybe either Bonner or Haislip can play some SF I figure. If Haislip can play some 3 that will be nice because we may then see little if any of Bonner/Finley.

That leaves only 1-2 more spots. So i think it's Hairston/Williams/Gist/McClinton vying for those. Only way to avoid leaving 2-3 of them off the roster is trade Bonner/Finley/and possibly Mason for 1-2 (fewer players).

Main point here is absent a trade of two of those three, we probably only have one more roster spot, two at the most. Hairston/Williams/Gist/McClinton are longshots to make the team. Assuming no trade, I'd say we roster one of them and then another may get some 10-day looks, if I am understanding the situation correctly.

That's really a stacked looking roster to me. Still a possibiity of bringing in a veteran center via a trade. Would like to keep Mason around if possible, even if a McClinton were to emerge at SG. Should be fun to see who gets the last few roster spots, possible that no more deals happen.

Amazing that only 7 remain from last year, and that number could drop to even 4 or 3. Not saying I expect a Mason or Hill trade, but I'd say that number could easily drop to 5, 50/50 that Bonner/Finley stay with the team.

Unless/until Ian pans out or we get a replacement C, we need to hang onto Splitter's rights one more year and try to bring him in 2010. We're relying on some young and unproven players for C/PF depth, making the Dice signing all the more critical. Until Ian/Blair/Haislip question marks are answered, I'll be leaning towards more depth at C before I worry about SF. The big Lakers front line, after all, is our main obstacle at this point. I'd agree that Bell and Battier would be nice additions though, and to take them if we could.

You can carry 15 on a team and up to 12 can dress and are eligible to play each night. The 12 can be different night in and night out.

You should factor that 15 number into your analysis, though it won't necessarily apply if you start talking about who you actually think will get playing time (likely 9 or 10 with regular minutes).

[AFBlue]

Excellent write up!

Do you think Ian is guaranteed to make the roster? It seems if he does not seriously show something this SL, he may be cut. I hope he does.

Let's say Ian earns a roster spot. I would think Hairston would have a spot as well as he's already been partially guaranteed, but I don't like the idea of McClinton not making the team, unless he totally bombs in SL.

Of course, if Ian doesn't prove himself, then both Hairston and McClinton will likely make the team, but we'll still with Ian had as well.

Anyway, I hope they all have such a PHENOMENAL performance, that Pop is forced to make one or two 2 for 1 deals just to make room!

Ian has more guaranteed money owed to him this year than McClinton, Gist, Hairston, Williams, and even Haislip...he's not getting cut.

And I don't think anyone without a fully guaranteed contract playing in the summer league outside of probably Blair is "guaranteed" to make the roster....that includes Hairston, Williams, Gist, and McClinton.

[poeticism707]

Ian has more guaranteed money owed to him this year than McClinton, Gist, Hairston, Williams, and even Haislip...he's not getting cut.

That's going to be rough on a few guys.

[AFBlue]

That's going to be rough on a few guys.

Eh...not really. They'll still get a decent shot at making the roster.

Vaughn hasn't been re-signed, so there's a chance for McClinton to take that backcourt spot (even though he'd be a SG not a PG).

Udoka hasn't been re-signed, so there's a chance for Hairston to take that wing spot.

Fab hasn't been re-signed, so there's a chance for Gist to take a frontcourt spot.

There's also a chance that Marcus Williams isn't brought back, so there's another potential spot.

Having said that, if the Spurs don't think all or any of those respective guys are ready, I'm sure they won't hesitate to try and bring back a reliable veteran like Vaughn, Bowen, Udoka or Fab.

But as of right now...it's all in their hands.

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

Exactly.

Since his name is ANTONIO MCDYESS, which bears no resemblance to "Michael" or "Mike", why don't we all agree not to refer to him as "Big Mike"? :rolleyes :lol



Why? Why not crucify you? Part of you obviously thinks T-Mac, first round veteran, would somehow fit here. He wouldn't... in any way. Bad, baaaaaad call.

Consider yourself gently crucified.



You should also be crucified, but I can't be bothered.

The name doth NOT maketh the man.



Clips will probably keep Camby for the moment - Kaman, Camby, Griffin is their big rotation since Randolph was shipped. He might become available towards the deadline if they like what DeAndre Jordan is showing them.

Webster is pretty much a spot up shooter, earns ~5mil, contract goes to end of 2012. What do you see as his role?

Maggette, no freakin way, even if we had the contracts to get him. Overpaid until 2013 (9-11mil per) and breaking down as we speak. Also, one-dimensional. We traded for RJ, yeah? ;)

I don't get the Mason-bashing either. Dead-eye from 3, can spot up from 2. I remember him draining plenty of spot ups, and his Hot Spot chart confirms it. His D will improve after a year in the system - that happens with just about every new Spur.





Spot on. Let Gordon go, so they're going to trade their other starting SG?



The way the team is constructed now and with what the Spurs have to offer - NO! But maybe a 3rd team could get involved. It's not like it's never happened before.

I'm just throwing what I think may be plausible and doing the old brain or blame storming thing. My GM and head coach experience is limited solely to what I read on this forum.

Pipe dream, but what caught my eye other then I've loved Salmons game from the time the Spurs drafted him and traded his rights away. What really surprised me is that according Hoyle Hollinger, Salmons PER is higher then players like, oh I don't know, like Ron Artest, Trevor Ariza and this guy named Richard Jefferson. The guy is a baller and for those who have watched him I'm sure will agree.

But like the poster noted, after losing Gordon it would take a lot, probably much more then what the Spurs can offer to make this happen. Too bad because that would have been the answer to the long, athletic 3 who can score in bunches but mainly is a more then capable defender.

I was wondering how Salmons matched up against Kobe, but I don't know where the player vs player web site is. Can anyone help out on old altar boy?:toast

[benefactor]

I know its a pipe dream, but Bonner+Finley for Gortat is not all that impossible.

Magic get more depth at the 2/3 and some experience to go with their young playoff team. Bonner to stetch the defense.

How great would it befor the Mavs to lose him and the Spurs to pick him up.
I would probably want Foster over Gortat because of his shorter contract...but yes, it would be fun to bring him in and give Cuban the finger.

[mystargtr34]

I know its a pipe dream, but Bonner+Finley for Gortat is not all that impossible.

Magic get more depth at the 2/3 and some experience to go with their young playoff team. Bonner to stetch the defense.

How great would it befor the Mavs to lose him and the Spurs to pick him up.

Magic have their own version of Matt Bonner in Ryan Anderson, who can develop into something more.

They would probably sign a Finley for the vet min if he were avilable, he would probably be of some value to them.

But in a trade the Magic would definately want some size back, which the Spurs havent got outside of Duncan.

[TFloss32]

Does anyone envision the Spurs revisiting the Camby trade from last February if Ian has a bad summer league? Or trading for the likes of Jeff Foster or Gortat (now that his offer from the Mavs has been matched)? And when the hell does Dice get into town? I haven't heard anything about this yet.

[Ace9]

I would probably want Foster over Gortat because of his shorter contract...but yes, it would be fun to bring him in and give Cuban the finger.


Ick, Gortat. I would not want to trade Bonner and Finley for Gortat... :lol

[bishopospurs]

or Foster

[Thompson]

Ick, Gortat. I would not want to trade Bonner and Finley for Gortat... :lol

Wait, just imagine the Mav fans' meltdown if that happened. It might be worth it just for that. :lol

[poeticism707]

Wait, just imagine the Mav fans' meltdown if that happened. It might be worth it just for that. :lol
:lol

[raspsa]

Exactly.

Since his name is ANTONIO MCDYESS, which bears no resemblance to "Michael" or "Mike", why don't we all agree not to refer to him as "Big Mike"? :rolleyes :lol
?

Or better still, why not "Big Mac"?:flag:

[Calavera]

I would say MC DICE :), like mc hammer :downspin:

[Marcus Bryant]

The case of the disappearing roster spots.

1
Parker
Hill

2
Ginobili
Mason
Hairston
McClinton

3
Jefferson
Finley
Williams

4
Duncan
Blair
Bonner
Haislip
Gist

5
McDyess
Mahinmi

That's 16 players. Yes, Blair and McClinton have yet to sign and Williams' contract is non-guaranteed for next season, but at least the early indications are that the Spurs intend on having each one on the roster next season (otherwise the press conference for McClinton was a cruel joke). Gist reportedly said that he was going to be with the Spurs this season and would make for a fine Toro, as would McClinton.

All signs are pointing to some kind of trade on the Spurs' part, with the two most likely candidates being Bonner and Finley. I think they'll look for a 2 for 1 deal, though they could include Williams and make it a 3 for 1, which could be enticing for a trade partner looking to cut payroll this season. Still, one wonders if the Spurs would go with two young players like Hairston and Williams as their 4th and 5th swingmen to open the season. The Spurs have yet to use their LLE and apparently have $1.3 mil of their MLE to use as well. You'd think they would look at using one of those to sign Blair and the other to find some kind of defensive minded swingman.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

From Mark Stein:

"• The Milwaukee Bucks continue to make Bruce Bowen's $4 million expiring contract available, but word is no trade is close. If the Bucks don't strike a deal in the next two weeks, Bowen will be waived by Aug. 1 at a cost of just $2 million, making him a free agent sure to interest various rivals of the San Antonio Spurs since Bowen is not expected to return to the silver and black. "

So it was Stein who I read that from before. I wonder where he's getting that from.

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

I was wondering if someone could explain something to me; Bonner & Fin both have expiring contracts right? I would think that teams that want to clear cap space in order to be ready for all the elite FA's in 2010 would have their noses so far up RC's behind trying to get a trade done. Once the trade is done & Bonner and Fin pass their physicals their new team could either use these two serviceable players, they could cut them or trade them.

If that is correct then a trade of Bonner, Fin and Williams to the Kings for Nocioni would work, provided Kings management is all for it. I'd love to keep Mason because he's about 5 or 6 yrs younger and frankly at this point I think he is a better offensive player.

Defensively, is there a way or web site where a players defensive efficiency can be measured.



I'd appreciate the help, some of you guys are freaking GM's and understand the nuances and dynamics of understanding and manipulating players and money within the CBA in the process of trying to build a better team.

[Mr. Body]

I was wondering if someone could explain something to me; Bonner & Fin both have expiring contracts right? I would think that teams that want to clear cap space in order to be ready for all the elite FA's in 2010 would have their noses so far up RC's behind trying to get a trade done. Once the trade is done & Bonner and Fin pass their physicals their new team could either use these two serviceable players, they could cut them or trade them.

If that is correct then a trade of Bonner, Fin and Williams to the Kings for Nocioni would work, provided Kings management is all for it. I'd love to keep Mason because he's about 5 or 6 yrs younger and frankly at this point I think he is a better offensive player.

Defensively, is there a way or web site where a players defensive efficiency can be measured.



I'd appreciate the help, some of you guys are freaking GM's and understand the nuances and dynamics of understanding and manipulating players and money within the CBA in the process of trying to build a better team.

It's possible that Pop wants both of them on the roster.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

^Yep that trade works.

[DPG21920]

What you have to keep in mind are a few things:

1) Do the salaries match
2) Does it meet both teams needs
3) Are there basketball reasons to do a trade
4) Are there financial reasons to do a trade
5) Are there both
6) Can other teams offer a better package/similar package
7) Are there mutual benefits for both teams that would make them agree to a trade
8) What are the main goals for both teams / do multiple teams need to get involved

[tav1]

The case of the disappearing roster spots.

1
Parker
Hill

2
Ginobili
Mason
Hairston
McClinton

3
Jefferson
Finley
Williams

4
Duncan
Blair
Bonner
Haislip
Gist

5
McDyess
Mahinmi

That's 16 players. Yes, Blair and McClinton have yet to sign and Williams' contract is non-guaranteed for next season, but at least the early indications are that the Spurs intend on having each one on the roster next season (otherwise the press conference for McClinton was a cruel joke). Gist reportedly said that he was going to be with the Spurs this season and would make for a fine Toro, as would McClinton.

All signs are pointing to some kind of trade on the Spurs' part, with the two most likely candidates being Bonner and Finley. I think they'll look for a 2 for 1 deal, though they could include Williams and make it a 3 for 1, which could be enticing for a trade partner looking to cut payroll this season. Still, one wonders if the Spurs would go with two young players like Hairston and Williams as their 4th and 5th swingmen to open the season. The Spurs have yet to use their LLE and apparently have $1.3 mil of their MLE to use as well. You'd think they would look at using one of those to sign Blair and the other to find some kind of defensive minded swingman.

Has the 1.3 of leftover MLE been confirmed? To my knowledge, that's an open question.

From where I sit, the depth chart is pretty obvious:

Parker/Hill/Williams
Mason/Gino/Hairston
Jefferson/Finley
McDyess/Blair/Haislip
Duncan/Mahinmi/Bonner

and Gist and McClinton are fighting for the final spot. The loser will get an invitation to Austin and the winner an allocation.

I agree with you about the 2 for 1 swap. But that's easier said than done.

[raspsa]

or Foster
Would love Foster but unfortunately he's going to retire a Pacer.

[mountainballer]

some here mentioned they expect the signing of a veteran PG and after thinking a bit about it, I agree with this estimation.
ironically the reason might have to do with the good play of some young Spurs players in the summer league.
right now it looks highly likely that the Spurs will carry 5 youngsters (rookie or sophomore) on the roster (Blair, Hill, Ian, Hairston, Williams) and Haislip is also somehow a dark horse.
I really can't see the Spurs carry even more rookies, even if Gist and McClinton miraculously started to play good.
so a veteran PG on a vet. min contract likely does make the most sense and there are also a few interesting options out there. (I don't mention Vaughn)
Bobby Jackson has been mentioned, Anthony Carter, Jason Hart, Brevin Knight, Tyronn Lue, Damon Jones and some more.
and maybe this list will grow in the next weeks. reportedly a lot is going on in New Orleans, they really struggle financially and George Shinn also stated a few days ago, that they have to somehow get out of lux tax hell.
I have the gut feeling, one step will be to buy out Antonio Daniels, who doesn't have a future there and moved to the end of the bench. (if he takes a buy out of let's say 3.5 million, the Hornets save 5 million overall)
would he be an option?
other buy out candidates will be Rafer Alston, Marko Jaric, Speedy Claxton, Mike James.

[coyotes_geek]

some here mentioned they expect the signing of a veteran PG and after thinking a bit about it, I agree with this estimation.
ironically the reason might have to do with the good play of some young Spurs players in the summer league.
right now it looks highly likely that the Spurs will carry 5 youngsters (rookie or sophomore) on the roster (Blair, Hill, Ian, Hairston, Williams) and Haislip is also somehow a dark horse.
I really can't see the Spurs carry even more rookies, even if Gist and McClinton miraculously started to play good.
so a veteran PG on a vet. min contract likely does make the most sense and there are also a few interesting options out there. (I don't mention Vaughn)
Bobby Jackson has been mentioned, Anthony Carter, Jason Hart, Brevin Knight, Tyronn Lue, Damon Jones and some more.
and maybe this list will grow in the next weeks. reportedly a lot is going on in New Orleans, they really struggle financially and George Shinn also stated a few days ago, that they have to somehow get out of lux tax hell.
I have the gut feeling, one step will be to buy out Antonio Daniels, who doesn't have a future there and moved to the end of the bench. (if he takes a buy out of let's say 3.5 million, the Hornets save 5 million overall)
would he be an option?
other buy out candidates will be Rafer Alston, Marko Jaric, Speedy Claxton, Mike James.

I've been in the camp expecting the Spurs to bring in a vet PG for a long time, and I'm still leaning that way, but there's a huge unknown to this situation. The faith the Spurs have in Williams ability to play backup PG at the NBA level. If the Spurs believe that Williams is good enough insurance behind Hill at that spot then I think we see Hairston & Williams on the roster without the Spurs bringing in a vet PG. If the Spurs aren't comfortable with Williams at PG then I think the Spurs do find a vet and Hairston & Williams find themselves in a head to head battle.

[mountainballer]

I've been in the camp expecting the Spurs to bring in a vet PG for a long time, and I'm still leaning that way, but there's a huge unknown to this situation. The faith the Spurs have in Williams ability to play backup PG at the NBA level. If the Spurs believe that Williams is good enough insurance behind Hill at that spot then I think we see Hairston & Williams on the roster without the Spurs bringing in a vet PG. If the Spurs aren't comfortable with Williams at PG then I think the Spurs do find a vet and Hairston & Williams find themselves in a head to head battle.

even if they want to see how Williams handles PG duties, they might still go for a vet PG. Williams would be another inexperienced PG.

I guess the question if either Hairston or Williams or both stay will be their defense. if the Spurs believe, they can both defend at NBA level. if not, they will look for a vet. wing stopper. if yes, they could very well think about playing them both alongside. the advantage would be, that the lengthy Williams can compensate for the lack of size of Hairston and they can switch spots on offense and defense.

[coyotes_geek]

even if they want to see how Williams handles PG duties, they might still go for a vet PG. Williams would be another inexperienced PG.

I guess the question if either Hairston or Williams or both stay will be their defense. if the Spurs believe, they can both defend at NBA level. if not, they will look for a vet. wing stopper. if yes, they could very well think about playing them both alongside. the advantage would be, that the lengthy Williams can compensate for the lack of size of Hairston and they can switch spots on offense and defense.

They certainly could go that way. JMO, but keeping both Williams and Hairston on the roster seems a bit redundant to me if there's both a vet PG and Michael Finley on the roster. But there's plenty of offseason left so who knows whether or not the roster situation will be the same in October as it is in July.