Next Moves

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs have made some major moves towards reloading their team for serious championship runs in what are expected to be the last three seasons of Tim Duncan's NBA career, with the acquisitions of Richard Jefferson and Antonio McDyess, as well as the recent drafting of All-American DeJuan Blair and Jack McClinton. The Spurs have also signed Marcus Haislip, a former NBA lottery pick in 2002 who has significantly refined his game in the Turkish Basketball League and the Spanish ACB league over the last four years.

I think it's obvious that a trade will be forthcoming. The Spurs have all but guaranteed that Blair and McClinton will be on the opening day roster. 2008 draft pick James Gist has been quoted as saying that he will be playing in SA next year after his successful Serie A season in Italy.

Here's a look at the Spurs as they stand today.

Current Team Under Contract

Points
1 Parker
1/2 Hill

Swingmen
2 Ginobili
3 Jefferson
2 Mason
2/3 Finley
2/3 Williams
2/3 Hairston

Bigmen
4 Haislip
4 Bonner
4/5 Duncan
4/5 McDyess (verbal commitment)
5 Mahinmi

2009 Draft Picks
2 McClinton
2 De Colo
4 Blair

Draft Rights Held
3 Sanikidze
4 Gist
4/5 Javtokas
5 Splitter
5 Karaulov

Once McDyess officially signs, the Spurs will have thirteen players under contract. As mentioned above, Blair, McClinton, and Gist will likely sign with the Spurs as well. That will give the Spurs sixteen players under contract. It seems likely that they will make at least one more trade this offseason. Of note is that the Spurs currently have seven players whose contracts expire after the 2009-10 season: Ginobili, Finley, Mason, Bonner, Williams, Hairston, and Haislip. Expiring contracts are a valuable commodity in today's NBA as they allow teams to shed longer term financial commitments. The three most likely Spurs from that group to be traded are Finley, Bonner, and Williams.

Looking at the roster as it stands today, I think the most obvious needs are perhaps a veteran center for the bench and a defensive minded swingman who can shoot the 3. That said, it certainly wouldn't hurt the Spurs if they were able to find a combo forward who could defend both forward positions.

There have been rumors that Bruce Bowen, part of the trade which landed Jefferson, may be returning to San Antonio. He would be fine as a backup small forward and could likely be signed for the veteran's minimum.

Looking around the league at potential defensive oriented swingmen who could be acquired by trade, we have:

http://www.nba.com/media/act_raja_bell.jpg
Raja Bell

Bell is 32 years old and has one year left on his contract at $5.25 million. He has proven to be one of the better perimeter defenders in the NBA and a solid outside shooter.


http://www.nba.com/media/act_thabo_sefolosha.jpg
Thabo Sefolosha

Sefolosha is a 25 year old swingman with decent defensive acumen and an expriring contract of his own.


On the bigman front, there are a few interesting candidates.

http://www.nba.com/media/act_jeff_foster.jpg
Jeff Foster

Foster, a San Antonio native, is a 32 year old, 10 year NBA veteran. An excellent rebounding bigman, he has spent his entire NBA career with the Indiana Pacers. He has two years and $12.7 million remaining on his contract.


http://www.nba.com/media/act_marcus_camby.jpg
Marcus Camby

Camby, a first round pick of the Raptors in 1996, has also played for the Knicks and Nuggets, and is currently with the Clippers. Camby scored 10.1 points, brought down 11.1 rebounds, and blocked 2.1 shots a game with the Clippers last season. The Spurs attempted to trade for the 35 year old center prior to last February's trade deadline. His contract expires after the end of the 2009-10 season.


http://www.nba.com/media/act_troy_murphy.jpg
Troy Murphy

Murphy, 29, is an 8 year NBA veteran who played with the Warriors before he was traded to the Pacers in the 2006-07 season. Last season he averaged 14.3 points and 11.8 rebounds in 34 minutes a contest. He also shot 45% on 358 3-point attempts. Think of him as Bonner with a pair of testicles. His contract has two years and roughly $23 million left on it.


On the combo forward front, there are two interesting candidates.

http://www.nba.com/media/act_andres_nocioni.jpg
Andres Nocioni

Ginobili's Argentinian national teammate is 29 years old and freshly deposited in Sacramento as part of the trade which eventually led the Spurs to acquire former Spur Drew Gooden. The Spurs have been interested in him for some time and missed out on drafting him when Sam forgot his age. He has proven to be a decent scorer, excellent outside shooter, and solid rebounder who brings tremendous hustle to the game during his NBA career. He has three years and $21 million remaining on his contract which ends after the 2011-12 NBA season.


http://www.nba.com/media/act_boris_diaw.jpg
Boris Diaw

Diaw, 27, was Tony Parker's best man when he married Gabby. He is a 6 year NBA veteran who has played for the Hawks, Suns, and now Bobcats. Last season he averaged 15.1 points and 5.9 boards in 37.1 minutes a night in 59 games with the Bobcats after being traded by the Suns. He also shot 41.9% on 167 3-point FG attempts. He has two years and $18 million left on his current contract.


The Spurs have truly surprised us all this offseason with their aggressive activity and were quite fortunate in the recent concluded draft, landing easily one of the top prospects in the entire draft with selection #37. At this point, I'd say there's no reason to believe that they are finished. Given the shape of the current roster, it looks like more moves will be made as the major part of free agency wraps up and other teams begin to sort out their own rosters. The potential trade targets I have mentioned above may be players of interest to the Spurs. I think the most likely trade will be for a bigman, or perhaps for a combo forward. This is a very interesting time to be a Spurs fan. So kick back, enjoy a sip of Patrón as I am doing, and savor it.

-MB

[tav1]

Dorell Wright?

[mosdef17]

Boris Diaw in a Spurs uniform has always been a dream of mine, I always thought he would be perfect on our team. The only problem was his contract was always so long and expensive I never truly wanted him. Now, with McDyess, I think someone like Marcus Camby would be a lot better suited.

[YODA]

williams under contract?? huh?
Didnt they just sign Jack Vaugn too??

[timvp]

Nice take. I hadn't thought about Bell too much but he makes a pretty good amount of sense. The Bobcats have been shopping him and may be interested in opening up playing time for younger prospects. With RC saying that the Spurs want to add a defensive piece to the perimeter, Bell would be one of the best fits in the league.

And yeah, a trade wouldn't be too surprising. The Haislip signing was somewhat odd if there wasn't more planned. Add in Gist saying he'll make the team and there very well could be something in the works.

[Ditty]

doesnt raja bell hate the spurs or ginobili?

[ducks]

I would rather have bowen then bell

[Spursmania]

Nocioni in a Spurs uniform would be my dream.

[ducks]

doesnt raja bell hate the spurs or ginobili?

he hates spurs kicking his ass out of playoffs
so he would welcome not to be playing against them in posteason

[ducks]

Nocioni in a Spurs uniform would be my dream.

3 years ago

[Spursmania]

doesnt raja bell hate the spurs or ginobili?

Not when you get to play with them:lol

[completely deck]

Boris Diaw in a Spurs uniform has always been a dream of mine

You've got some boring dreams

[BillMc]

I have to say, I think we should fine a backup point guard. That's not George Hill bashing, who I like a lot, but Hill was a 2 in college. I hope the transition works (it showed some signs last year, but also some problems) but might also look for another backup at the point, in case Pop moves Hill back to the 2 or uses him mainly in the role as a defensive specialist.

[spursfan4ever]

Hey guys, i'm one of those that usually like to read and not sign in but decided to add to this thread. I really enjoy reading everyone's takes at spurstalk! Anyway, i was thinking that the Spurs may be looking to get a point guard to help out Tony. What do you all think?

:meeting:

[BillMc]

Hey guys, i'm one of those that usually like to read and not sign in but decided to add to this thread. I really enjoy reading everyone's takes at spurstalk! Anyway, i was thinking that the Spurs may be looking to get a point guard to help out Tony. What do you all think?

:meeting:

I agree! (And welcome to the board!) :toast

[Spurtacus]

Bonner/Finley for Raja Bell works in the NBA trade machine.

We'd lose shooting with Bell instead of Finley but we need a perimeter defender especially if Bowen doesn't return.

[spursfan4ever]

I have to say, I think we should fine a backup point guard. That's not George Hill bashing, who I like a lot, but Hill was a 2 in college. I hope the transition works (it showed some signs last year, but also some problems) but might also look for another backup at the point, in case Pop moves Hill back to the 2 or uses him mainly in the role as a defensive specialist.

I agree.

:tu

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

With all credit to PHILACHAMBERLAIN from another thread, how about Finley and Bonner (and whatever else is needed - picks, cash) for Shane Battier? The trade works, he'd round out the team perfectly - defensive 3 who can play some smallball 4 and hits from deep, not to mention All-American team guy. Also, his contract ends in two years, which fits the 2011 retooling plan. That would bring the roster back to 15 and we'd have the stopper we need.

Call in the Scola favour - GET IT DONE! :ihit

[spursfan4ever]

I agree! (And welcome to the board!) :toast

Thanks!

[GSH]

Trades have to be within 125% (plus $100K). Taken the other way, it means the Spurs could take back a player making 80% of the one(s) they send to the other team. Which means they could ship out Bonner and Finley, with aggregate salaries of about $5.75M, and take back a player with a salary of $4.55M. That particular trade would save Holt $2.4M, right off the top, because of the Lux Tax match.

If the player they receive has any value at all to the team, it would be a great deal. With all the young talent in the pipeline, they can fill out a roster. Dumping a couple of million worth of expenses would be really attractive. I'm starting to think we won't see a trade unless it is something of that nature.

[Edit: this is an example, not a suggestion.] Spurs trade Bonner/Finley to Minnesota for Darius Songaila, and Holt gets to keep almost $2.5M worth of salary and Lux Tax in his bank account. If you really believe Bonner and Finley are expendable to this team, that trade would be a no-brainer. (Please... I didn't say the Wolves would do it. Just an example.)

[tav1]

Bonner/Finley for Bell would be a good move.

[franceout]

PG parker hill
SG/SF manu RJ mason Finley
pf/c td, dice, Mahinmi, bonner haislip Blair

This will be my active list, it looks they have more than enough bigmen but are short of a backup pg. I like Hill, but he seems to me more like a sg, so bonner for a vet pg (only as the 3rd pg maybe) would be a wonderful trade.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Nice work Marcus.

I thought about this after the 'Dice signing and felt it was clear a trade was forthcoming, but was too busy to do the leg work on potential targets.

I really think we try and add a backup point, with someone at the 3/4 being an option as well. I have a sneaky suspicion that Thomas and Bowen both find their ways back after things play out, which puts us at 18 players.

We could put together two packages that send out more players than we get back, and address both positions. We shall see, but it's hard to look at this roster and not think another deal is on the way (or two).

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Battier >>>>>>>>>>>> Bell

[weebo]

....just bring Bruce back and call it an offseason.

[loveforthegame]

Since so many of you think a trade is likely how long of a wait do you think we're looking at before we hear about it?

[Mr. Body]

Raja Bell pops out. Are the Cats really shopping him?

[ss1986v2]

just a not so quick rundown:

i like raja well enough. im not sure he fits a big enough need to give the asset(s) necessary to acquire him though (i doubt the cats move him for other expirings straight up).

i dont think okc is looking to move thabo. and as above, im not sure hes worth the asset(s) necessary to pull the move off.

i like foster, and if they are looking to dump him, sure. i dont see him as a need at this point though.

im not sure the clippers are too inclined to move camby after successfully dumping randolph. but he would probably be worth it even at a slightly higher cost now.

i have always liked murphy, but i dont think its fair to expect the spurs to bring in that kind of salary after everything they have already done. the same goes for both chapu and diaw (who actually has 3yrs/27 mil left on his deal). i like both of their games, but thats a good bit of cash for a team that is already spending like a drunken sailor.

[ElNono]

I like Bell. He works hard and he can knock down shots, although our offense is the least of my worries. I didn't know he was only due $5 million. For a Bowen replacement for certain matchups, I think he could work well for us.

[Nathan Explosion]

Bell would be a good defender who has shown a knack for getting in Kobe's head a bit. A flopper to boot, he'd be a natural fit on the Spurs.

Diaw is interesting because he's such a matchup nightmare and might actually counter the one advantage the Lakers will hold if Odom signs. Diaw is of similar size and height as Odom with a skill set that resembles Odom's as well.

He's been inconsistent more often than not, but, when focused, he's a hell of a player, just like Odom. That's enough to convince me.

I'd like either of those players if the Spurs are in the market for another swing player. If I had to choose, I'd take Diaw as he's only 27 and a countrymen and friend of Parker's.

I doubt that Bell hates the Spurs considering that his fellow countryman and friend plays for the Spurs, namely one Tim Duncan.

[ElNono]

Battier >>>>>>>>>>>> Bell

Sure. But I don't think Battier is available?

[loveforthegame]

So no one will complain about Bell (or whoever) taking away minutes from the youngsters?

[Solid D]

My only concern now is if TP goes down, there is no true backup at the point, offensively.

[coachmac87]

Bonner/Finley for Diaw would be amazing! I think the Spurs have enough wings...they can always get Bowen, if all else fails. Diaw would be a great option for us off the bench!

[Ditty]

Sure. But I don't think Battier is available?

Battier is available they been shopping him along with tmac its just the fact of houston trading him to us

im pretty sure battier wouldn't mind houston is just down the road

i wouldnt mind raja bell,good defender can knock down the 3

wish we could of kept this kid back in the days him and bowen would of been a scary duo with duncan in the middle :wow

[coachmac87]

Diaw Like Odom when on their game can be one of the toughest matchups in the league. And be one of the best bench player as well. He will give you twenty one night and 4 the next. But as long as its off the bench i'm fine with that.

[loveforthegame]

Is Charlotte under the cap?

[Nathan Explosion]

Finley and Bonner for Diaw doesn't work. One of our young prospects, cash considerations or draft picks, or a combination of the three may be needed to get Diaw.

Battier is also a great option, although, for the matchup reasons provided, I'd still take Diaw.

[rayray2k8]

There's no way we'd get Thabo Sefolosha.

[tav1]

James Jones?

[50 cent]

I don't think Houston's shopping Battier, but who knows with the Ariza signing.

[loveforthegame]

Finley and Bonner for Diaw doesn't work. One of our young prospects, cash considerations or draft picks, or a combination of the three may be needed to get Diaw.

Battier is also a great option, although, for the matchup reasons provided, I'd still take Diaw.

That's why I asked if they were under the cap.

Just Finley/Bonner isn't enough. I had to add Mason and Williams to make it work. It's possible they would have to add Mahinmi instead of Williams.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Not much enthusiasm for Battier... WTF? He's EXACTLY what we need, the trade works for Finley and Bonner (and throw in a pick to get it done), and apparently he's available. I'd jump all over that shit! He'd be our guy to throw at Kobe/Pierce/VC/Roy/etc.

Once again, it was PHILACHAMBERLAIN'S idea (I never steal cred):


This is actually not out of the question. battier is in his 30s and has 2 years left on his contract. With the Rockets possibly losing yao forever they will likely want to get a 2010 free agent and need to create that space. So I am thinking battier or Scola or both will be in trade talks for this up coming season. I just hope the Rockets will help us out.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130786&page=4

[mudyez]

Since so many of you think a trade is likely how long of a wait do you think we're looking at before we hear about it?


I wouldnt expect them to do anything before february...at that point, there will be teams, that want to call it a season and trade for expirings, because they su§$ed more than they thought.


My only concern now is if TP goes down, there is no true backup at the point, offensively.

if TP goes down in the regular season we should be good enough to reach the playoffs nontheless...if he goes down in the playoffs, we will not go all the way anyway!

I'd like to add one more big via trade: Diaw or Camby are perfect...I dont like us signing Bell...rather give those minutes to Hill (and maybe Malik/McClinton)...and if not that, we have to take Bruce over Bell!

[EricB]

Not much enthusiasm cause the rockets aren't dumb enough to trade a good plAyer within the division.

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

What about Dahntay Jones? He made $797,581 last year, maybe he would come over for the LLE. (He is an UFA)

[tomtom]

Bell would be great especially if he clothes lined kobe again :lol

[Kori Ellis]

I think Battier is probably the most overrated defender in the league. He had one good game against Kobe two years ago and it became legendary. That said, of course you trade Finley and Bonner for him. :lol He also fits the Spurs personality and has the same agent as Tim in Lon Babby.

I think they might trade for a point guard though. We have a bunch of guys who can play backup point in a pinch, but the Spurs may want more than that.

[ss1986v2]

Not much enthusiasm for Battier... WTF? He's EXACTLY what we need, the trade works for Finley and Bonner (and throw in a pick to get it done), and apparently he's available. I'd jump all over that shit! He'd be our guy to throw at Kobe/Pierce/VC/Roy/etc.

Once again, it was PHILACHAMBERLAIN'S idea (I never steal cred).

i love battier, but dont see that hes available; not for what we have to offer (expirings + low value assets), and especially not to us (doubtful they pick the spurs as a trade partner if value is even close somewhere else). just cant see it happening.

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

What about Dahntay Jones? He made $797,581 last year, maybe he would come over for the LLE. (He is an UFA)


Nevermind he has singed with the Pacers.... :(

[Nathan Explosion]

Believe me, I'd love to have Battier. There's something to be said for a player who was as accomplished as Battier in college and received as many accolades as Battier did, despite not being the most talented player on the team.

Having said that, I like Diaw because his size and skill set are the exact counter to what the Lakers have in Odom. Having Diaw would level the playing field when Odom is out there, and would give the Spurs a big frontline to contend with the Lakers frontline of Bynum, Gasol and Odom, should the Lakers choose to do so.

I'd go as far as to say that the only team that could matchup better against the Lakers than the Spurs (with Diaw) is Boston with a frontline of Perkins, Sheed, and KG.

Battier is a much more consistent player by far though.

I guess Diaw is option 1 and Battier is option 1A in my book. Now, if we could convince Charlotte or Houston's front office to do business then it's a go.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

As for backup point, I think that can be handled by a combination of Hill and Manu. And you never know, maybe Williams is in the race for a few minutes there too given that he ran the Toros towards the end of last season.

Backup points aren't hard to find, so I'm far more focussed on grabbing Battier!

[loveforthegame]

Yeah, I don't see Houston doing us any favors by trading Battier to us.

[weebo]

Not much enthusiasm for Battier... WTF? He's EXACTLY what we need, the trade works for Finley and Bonner (and throw in a pick to get it done), and apparently he's available. I'd jump all over that shit! He'd be our guy to throw at Kobe/Pierce/VC/Roy/etc.

Once again, it was PHILACHAMBERLAIN'S idea (I never steal cred):



http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130786&page=4

Unless the rockets just plan to tank the season, why would they make that trade?

[bishopospurs]

I wouldn't mind Finley/Bonner for Posey. What about Dalembert? Doesn't Philly want to dump his salary, not sure what we would need to do to get him, but getting salaries could move bodies to fill some holes with the minimum.

[timvp]

Morey wouldn't consider trading Battier to the Spurs.

[Mr. Body]

I'd love a pass-first back up point guard. But who is that player?

[Nathan Explosion]

One more thing about Diaw, if needed, he can pull a little point-forward action the way KG used to do back in Minny and Odom does every now and then. You know, just for a different look.

[poeticism707]

Not much enthusiasm for Battier... WTF? He's EXACTLY what we need, the trade works for Finley and Bonner (and throw in a pick to get it done), and apparently he's available. I'd jump all over that shit! He'd be our guy to throw at Kobe/Pierce/VC/Roy/etc.

Once again, it was PHILACHAMBERLAIN'S idea (I never steal cred):



http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130786&page=4

I've been I WISHING the Spurs had Battier for years: he's a legit two way threat, professional and classy, and NO ONE DEFENDS BRYANT BETTER.

If the Spurs somehow traded expirings for Battier, the Spurs would DESTROY THE LAKERS. Bryant would seriously need to 20 shots to get 20 points with Battier guarding him, and that's a recipe for victory for the Spurs.

[bishopospurs]

I'd love a pass-first back up point guard. But who is that player?
Jared Jordan.... :lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Not much enthusiasm cause the rockets aren't dumb enough to trade a good plAyer within the division.

Given that they aren't going to contend next year, trading a good player who is over 30 within the division isn't going to hurt them. What's more, 2010 capspace (6.8mil from Bonner and Finley) and a pick, probably mean more to them than keeping him. Make the deal sweet enough and you might be able to get it done.

[Mr. Body]

I think Battier is probably the most overrated defender in the league. He had one good game against Kobe two years ago and it became legendary. That said, of course you trade Finley and Bonner for him. :lol He also fits the Spurs personality and has the same agent as Tim in Lon Babby.

I think they might trade for a point guard though. We have a bunch of guys who can play backup point in a pinch, but the Spurs may want more than that.

Battier has the knack Bowen used to have of hitting key three pointers at pivotal moments of the game. His intangibles are through the roof -- he'll get you plays that don't show up on the stat sheet. He may not be at Bowen's level defensively in total, but he's pretty awesome. I'd love to have him.

[SA210]

....just bring Bruce back and call it an offseason.

[FvckMavs]

I'd love a pass-first back up point guard. But who is that player?

Pop likes shoot-first PG.

[Kori Ellis]

Battier has the knack Bowen used to have of hitting key three pointers at pivotal moments of the game. His intangibles are through the roof -- he'll get you plays that don't show up on the stat sheet. He may not be at Bowen's level defensively in total, but he's pretty awesome. I'd love to have him.

Oh, I think he fits really well for the Spurs. I just think his D is grossly overrated.

[timvp]

On the free agent market, Anthony Carter makes some sense. He's like a bigger Vaughn with more left in the tank. He's a pretty damn good passer and his range is improving.

Boring name but as a third point guard for minimum, I don't see a better option.

[timvp]

Given that they aren't going to contend next year, trading a good player who is over 30 within the division isn't going to hurt them. What's more, 2010 capspace (6.8mil from Bonner and Finley) and a pick, probably mean more to them than keeping him. Make the deal sweet enough and you might be able to get it done.

If the Spurs are serious about Battier, it'd probably take something like Finley, Bonner, Splitter and a pick. Spurs fans might implode if the Rockets end up with both S**** and Splitter.

[poeticism707]

On the free agent market, Anthony Carter makes some sense. He's like a bigger Vaughn with more left in the tank. He's a pretty damn good passer and his range is improving.

Boring name but as a third point guard for minimum, I don't see a better option.

I've admired Carter's game for a long time: he is the BENCHMARK FOR THE BACK UP POINT GUARD.

However, if the Spurs could trade for a big, ie Gadzuric, or elite two way wing, ie Bell or Battier, then I'd do those trades first.

I think Hill will continue to improve at the back up point, so it is not as pressing a need as the others.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Unless the rockets just plan to tank the season, why would they make that trade?

Yao is probably out, T-Mac is probably gone, so they aren't going anywhere next year. They have to know that. They also need to make time for Ariza at the 3 (if he ends of goin there, which seems like it's not a done deal). A pick and 2010 capspace would be looking good to them right now, surely?


Morey wouldn't consider trading Battier to the Spurs.

They owe us one for Scola. ;)

[Mr. Body]

Pop likes shoot-first PG.

We have Parker and maybe McClinton. With the mark of this roster becoming a diverse group of talents, getting a passer could help.

[Nathan Explosion]

On the free agent market, Anthony Carter makes some sense. He's like a bigger Vaughn with more left in the tank. He's a pretty damn good passer and his range is improving.

Boring name but as a third point guard for minimum, I don't see a better option.

I'm sure Trevor Ariza would agree with you on that one.

And Carter used to play for the Spurs, before the Spurs found out he was hiding an injury when they signed (or was it traded) for him. Plus, like Vaughn, Carter's jumper is useless.

[weebo]

If a perimeter defender is what is missing, just wait out Bowen. I think we already have to many new guys on the team, not to mention a couple that haven't really played all that much (Hill and Ian). I like the idea of having new blood on the team but lets not over do it either. Don't forget that most players new to the Spurs always have a hard time adjusting to the way Pop runs things on the court.

[ElNono]

On the free agent market, Anthony Carter makes some sense. He's like a bigger Vaughn with more left in the tank. He's a pretty damn good passer and his range is improving.

Boring name but as a third point guard for minimum, I don't see a better option.

He was a Spur in 03-04, and he only played 5 games. Maybe Pop knows something we don't.

[poeticism707]

If the Spurs are serious about Battier, it'd probably take something like Finley, Bonner, Splitter and a pick. Spurs fans might implode if the Rockets end up with both S**** and Splitter.

If you can get Battier for Splitter's rights, Bonner, Finley, and a first round 2010 pick Spurs don't won't to pay for, YOU DO IT.

YOU DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

[Nathan Explosion]

The Rockets may roll with Ariza at the 2 and Battier at the 3. Ariza is of similar build as TMac. If TMac is gone, then I'd definitely see Ariza taking up the 2 spot, leaving a defensive tandem similar to Artest and Battier of last year.

Plus, can you imagine the Rockets throwing Battier and Ariza at Kobe for the next few years?

I just don't think getting Battier is possible, but you never know.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

We have Parker and maybe McClinton. With the mark of this roster becoming a diverse group of talents, getting a passer could help.

RC and Pop have both said unequivocally that McClinton is not a point.

Houston wouldn't trade us Battier for our scraps, so scratch that.

Bell or Diaw from Charlotte are intriguing options...

[ElNono]

I still honestly believe Pop thinks Mason can play the point. He can be a stubborn guy.

[bishopospurs]

pass on Carter, we can do better

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

On the free agent market, Anthony Carter makes some sense. He's like a bigger Vaughn with more left in the tank. He's a pretty damn good passer and his range is improving.

Boring name but as a third point guard for minimum, I don't see a better option.

Carter didn't make a go of it in his first shot as a Spur, think he can this time? He's a strange guy - has had his best season as a 33-4yo.


If the Spurs are serious about Battier, it'd probably take something like Finley, Bonner, Splitter and a pick. Spurs fans might implode if the Rockets end up with both S**** and Splitter.

Would you do that? I hate the idea of losing Splitter, but we're talking about going all out for a ring or two over the next two seasons before Timmy rides off into the dust in 2012, so I think I would. It's all-in time, no point dicking around with a half-pot bet. ;)

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If you can get Battier for Splitter's rights, Bonner, Finley, and a first round 2010 pick Spurs don't won't to pay for, YOU DO IT.

YOU DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.


Um, hell yeah you think about sending them Splitter, not to mention a pick.

Splitter's a guy the Spurs brass was thinking could come in next year, start next to Tim, and start with Tony once Tim retires. You don't give that up when you already shipped them Scola.

That, and Battier is overrated.

[bishopospurs]

Finley, Bonner, Splitter, and first rounder for Battier, I would pass, I still have hope for Splitter. If you take out splitter I would say yes without question.

[poeticism707]

Um, hell yeah you think about sending them Splitter, not to mention a pick.

Splitter's a guy the Spurs brass was thinking could come in next year, start next to Tim, and start with Tony once Tim retires. You don't give that up when you already shipped them Scola.

That, and Battier is overrated.

You're mistaken on this one, friend.

Put Battier on Bryant for a series, with this Spurs team minus Bonner and Finley, and the Spurs win that series 4-1, or 4-2 at worse.

No one in the league defends Bryant better than Battier: add in his clutch and timely shooting from the 3, unselfishness and team mentality, and you just got a better, two way version of Bowen, only about 5 years younger.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If you can get Battier for Splitter's rights, Bonner, Finley, and a first round 2010 pick Spurs don't won't to pay for, YOU DO IT.

YOU DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

It'd have to be a 2011 pick, but yeah, it's all-in time.


RC and Pop have both said unequivocally that McClinton is not a point.

Houston wouldn't trade us Battier for our scraps, so scratch that.

Bell or Diaw from Charlotte are intriguing options...

Not scraps - nearly 7mil in 2010 capspace, a pick and the rights to Splitter.

No way Charlotte gives up Diaw, although Bell is not a bad idea.

[Big P]

You're mistaken on this one, friend.

Put Battier on Bryant for a series, with this Spurs team minus Bonner and Finley, and the Spurs win that series 4-1, or 4-2 at worse.

No one in the league defends Bryant better than Battier: add in his clutch and timely shooting from the 3, unselfishness and team mentality, and you just got a better, two way version of Bowen, only about 5 years younger.

Maybe, but he is not worth including Splitter .

[Blackjack]

Very nice writeup, MB.:tu

We're definitely on the same page after that OP, and I had the same thought of a trade following the signing of 'Dyess.

My two points of concern would definitely be a defensive-wing (preferably 6' 6'' or over) and another capable defensive 5. (preferably 6' 10'' or over)

I've mentioned McGuire and Sefolosha incessantly on this board and have suggested trying to snag Battier after Houston's signing of Ariza and their misfortune with Yao, but Bogans seems like the type of player the Spurs would acquire. I think Sefolosha and Battier would be the best gets for a win now team, though. Sefolosha is basically a more physical Christie-type player, someone who could potentially run the point next to Hill, and Battier, like McDyess, is just one of those guys that scream "Spur" in character/professionalism. (Not to mention he's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league)

Splitter deciding to come over would be absolutely perfect to fill that 5 role, but this offseason really can't go that well, can it? I've always liked Foster and it would be nice to see the local guy have a chance to win a ring in his hometown (ala Devin) but I'm not sure where his game is at, at this point. I just haven't seen enough of him lately to make a good, honest assessment. If he's anywhere where he was 2 to 3 years ago he'd definitely be an asset and one I'd like to see the Spurs try an acquire.

I'm absolutely in disbelief at what the Spurs have done but with the way the contenders are loading up, filling that 5 and/or wing defender role might be an absolute must..

This upcoming season's playoffs are going to be absolutely bananas.:wow

[mudyez]

if we can get Battier for expirings and Splitter I would do it in a heartbeat...come on....its about the next 2 years and we have Dyess now...Battier can do much more for us in those years

[phxspurfan]

I would love me some Sefolosha. Dude was money when guarding DWade a couple years back. I don't know why he's so undervalued but think he's a potential buy-low.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'm eagerly awaiting timvp's reply on this one.

Splitter, Splitter, Splitter... what about 7mil in 2010 capspace, 2011 first rounder, 2010 2nd rounder and 3 mil? Nah, they'd make it Splitter's rights or no deal, wouldn't they? What about 7mil in 2010 capspace and Splitter's rights, no picks? Wonder if they'd go for that?

This is all pie-in-the-sky stuff anyway. I'm very happy with the team as constituted, I just think Battier would be a perfect fit to back up RJ and be our new cooler for two seasons. We'd also then have about 28mil (RJ, Dice, Battier) coming off the cap at the end of 2011, which is intriguing.

[Nathan Explosion]

I wouldn't trade Splitter, especially is Splitter is a more than capable big man in this league. If Splitter becomes a borderline superstar (big if I know) then the Spurs would have some blocks to build with in Parker and Splitter when Duncan retires.

[bishopospurs]

I am thinking it is more about the next three, shoot for the three championships and let Duncan ride off into the sunset. You bring Splitter in and have Duncan and McDyess groom him, while finding a defensive SF. The trade would need to be for someone like a Posey or Battier. Who knows what is happening with Splitter, every detail that comes from that camp is cryptic and misleading.

[poeticism707]

if we can get Battier for expirings and Splitter I would do it in a heartbeat...come on....its about the next 2 years and we have Dyess now...Battier can do much more for us in those years

Agreed.

Splitter might do much for the team in 2or 3 years: but that's pretty much the end of Duncan's window.

If those role players + Splitter net you Battier, you do it. Because this is about the now: there is no more long term in Duncan's career.

[Mr. Body]

Problem with Antony Carter is he's still a shitty shooter.

[timvp]

Carter didn't make a go of it in his first shot as a Spur, think he can this time? He's a strange guy - has had his best season as a 33-4yo.Carter was hurt last time. The question is if the Spurs are still mad at him for signing with a gimpy knee.


Would you do that? I hate the idea of losing Splitter, but we're talking about going all out for a ring or two over the next two seasons before Timmy rides off into the dust in 2012, so I think I would. It's all-in time, no point dicking around with a half-pot bet. ;)
Hmmm. Probably. I still don't think Morey would do it unless he could get Splitter over this year.

(and the Spurs could hypothetically give them a 2010 first round pick)

[bishopospurs]

Problem with Antony Carter is he's still a shitty shooter.
Problem with anthony carter is he is taking up space and thought on these boards we could be using on players that would be good for this team.:lol

[Thompson]

I would love to get Battier for Finley and Bonner along with next year's 1st rounder (can we do that since we traded last year's 1st?), but I would not include Splitter. He's the long defender I've wanted to see play alongside Duncan, and there's a chance he's coming over next year.

[phxspurfan]

Um, hell yeah you think about sending them Splitter, not to mention a pick.

Splitter's a guy the Spurs brass was thinking could come in next year, start next to Tim, and start with Tony once Tim retires. You don't give that up when you already shipped them Scola.

That, and Battier is overrated.

AHF you really think Splitter would be good enough to warrant TP staying here after Duncan retires?


I think, realistically, Parker bolts for LA as soon as Duncan leaves. He will be fondly remembered in SATown.

[bishopospurs]

Why give up a potential starting center for an over 30 backup specialist? Splitter isn't untouchable, but trade him if it is something really worth it.

[Nathan Explosion]

If we could keep Splitter and take Bell, I'd do that over trading Splitter to Houston for Battier.

Now, if we could get Battier without Splitter being in the deal, then you do it.

But I still like Diaw on this team. I think the leadership both on and off the court can help Diaw thrive. Can you imagine Diaw and Gino coming off the bench to take over the scoring for Parker and Duncan when they for a rest?

[poeticism707]

AHF you really think Splitter would be good enough to warrant TP staying here after Duncan retires?


I think, realistically, Parker bolts for LA as soon as Duncan leaves. He will be fondly remembered in SATown.

Which is just another reason why you trade Splitter and role players for Battier, so you can win what ever titles you can now.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're mistaken on this one, friend.

Put Battier on Bryant for a series, with this Spurs team minus Bonner and Finley, and the Spurs win that series 4-1, or 4-2 at worse.

No one in the league defends Bryant better than Battier: add in his clutch and timely shooting from the 3, unselfishness and team mentality, and you just got a a better, two way version of Bowen, only about 5 years younger.

Um, no. Battier didn't do shit other than put his hand in Kobe's face while he was shooting.

Battier's defense of Kobe is such a myth. Let's take a look at the first two rounds of the playoffs for Kobe this year (vs. Utah, then vs. Houston and the 'great' Shane Battier):

vs. Utah: 40.6 MPG, .466 FG%, 27.4 PPG, 3.8 TO/G.

vs. Hous: 38 MPG, .453, 27.4 PPG, 1.57 TO/G.

So, in two less minutes per game than what he played against Utah, he was able to match his scoring average from round 1, and cut his turnovers per game by more than half. His shooting percentages went down a whopping 1.3%.

Yep, Kobe stopper indeed!

And let's not even get into regular season (okay, let's!):

Teams Kobe had a lower shooting percentage against in the regular season than Houston (I only included teams that he played 4 times to make it a true, fair comparison - larger sample size):

Denver, Golden State, Clippers, Minnesota, New Orleans, Phoenix, Portland. Out of ten teams the Lakers played four times this past regular season, SEVEN of the teams held Kobe to lower FG% than Houston and the great Shane Battier.

In short, pass.

[DrHouse]

There is no such thing as Kobe stopper. It takes a solid team defense to truly contain him.

[poeticism707]

If we could keep Splitter and take Bell, I'd do that over trading Splitter to Houston for Battier.

Now, if we could get Battier without Splitter being in the deal, then you do it.

But I still like Diaw on this team. I think the leadership both on and off the court can help Diaw thrive. Can you imagine Diaw and Gino coming off the bench to take over the scoring for Parker and Duncan when they for a rest?

Agreed! That would be a very nice lineup.

Very unorthodox, and therein would lie it's strength.

[Nathan Explosion]

Everyone assumes that Parker bolts for LA once Duncan retires, citing that Eva lives there. However, Eva is a Spurs fan with a home here as well, and Parker is a big star in France and going to LA won't make him a bigger star there.

I don't see Parker becoming a bigger star here in the US. In 2012 Parker will be 30, and unless you're Steve Nash, you usually are as big a star as you're going to get once you hit 30.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Very nice writeup, MB.:tu

We're definitely on the same page after that OP, and I had the same thought of a trade following the signing of 'Dyess.

My two points of concern would definitely be a defensive-wing (preferably 6' 6'' or over) and another capable defensive 5. (preferably 6' 10'' or over)

I've mentioned McGuire and Sefolosha incessantly on this board and have suggested trying to snag Battier after Houston's signing of Ariza and their misfortune with Yao, but Bogans seems like the type of player the Spurs would acquire. I think Sefolosha and Battier would be the best gets for a win now team, though. Sefolosha is basically a more physical Christie-type player, someone who could potentially run the point next to Hill, and Battier, like McDyess, is just one of those guys that scream "Spur" in character/professionalism. (Not to mention he's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league)

Splitter deciding to come over would be absolutely perfect to fill that 5 role, but this offseason really can't go that well, can it? I've always liked Foster and it would be nice to see the local guy have a chance to win a ring in his hometown (ala Devin) but I'm not sure where his game is at, at this point. I just haven't seen enough of him lately to make a good, honest assessment. If he's anywhere where he was 2 to 3 years ago he'd definitely be an asset and one I'd like to see the Spurs try an acquire.

I'm absolutely in disbelief at what the Spurs have done but with the way the contenders are loading up, filling that 5 and/or wing defender role might be an absolute must..

This upcoming season's playoffs are going to be absolutely bananas.:wow

Nice post.

Bogans for cheap would be okay, but we really need to offload Finley if he's coming here. I think the Wiz like McGuire, and same with OKC and Thabo - unlikely we have a shot at them.

Foster looked fine last year, although he is greatly overpaid at 6mil per. We could swap Bonner/Finley for him, but he's really 6 fouls/Mahinmi insurance isn't he? That's a lot to pay for insurance, and would leave us a bit thin on outside shooting. I'd rather go with someone like Rasho for the min or I was going to suggest trading for someone cheap like Tony Battie... I thought he was on 2.5mil or somesuch, but he's making 6.2mil next year! :wow :lol

[phxspurfan]

I'm going to sound like a broken record to some, but how bout some Tayshaun Prince? He's like a Battier clone at a much lower premium.

[bishopospurs]

AHF you really think Splitter would be good enough to warrant TP staying here after Duncan retires?


I think, realistically, Parker bolts for LA as soon as Duncan leaves. He will be fondly remembered in SATown.
Way to rain on the parade... wy the F would TP go to LA? Kobe is going to be ancient when Tim hangs them up.

[superbigtime]

On the free agent market, Anthony Carter makes some sense. He's like a bigger Vaughn with more left in the tank. He's a pretty damn good passer and his range is improving.

Boring name but as a third point guard for minimum, I don't see a better option.

No. Fucking. Way.

They are both GARBAGE.

[Nathan Explosion]

I'm going to sound like a broken record to some, but how bout some Tayshaun Prince? He's like a Battier clone at a much lower premium.

I've been looking at Prince for a long time too. His height and those long arms make for a great small ball line up. Not to mention he's an amazing defender.

Detroit just signed Villanueva, so I'd imagine Prince may be had for the right price.

[FvckMavs]

If we want a defensive specialist, why not just bring back Bruce(if he is released)?

[bishopospurs]

I'm going to sound like a broken record to some, but how bout some Tayshaun Prince? He's like a Battier clone at a much lower premium.
Trade wise it is prince or posey. I totally forgot about prince, good point.

[Thompson]

I'm going to sound like a broken record to some, but how bout some Tayshaun Prince? He's like a Battier clone at a much lower premium.

Actually, according to hoopshype, Prince is making 10 million this year and 11 million next year. Battier is less than 7 million.

[mudyez]

Way to rain on the parade... wy the F would TP go to LA? Kobe is going to be ancient when Tim hangs them up.

you know? TD is pushing for trades coz he wants to show, that he can win a ring without Parker, Robinson, Manu! ;)

[phxspurfan]

Way to rain on the parade... wy the F would TP go to LA? Kobe is going to be ancient when Tim hangs them up.

Two words and they rhyme with Pleasedon'tva Leavemegori-a.

[timvp]

Um, no. Battier didn't do shit other than put his hand in Kobe's face while he was shooting.

Battier's defense of Kobe is such a myth.

Agreed. Kobe has always destroyed Battier. There was that one regular season game where Kobe had a bad game against him but Battier has repeatedly gotten lit up by Kobe worse than most defenders.

Bell >>>>>>>>>>> Battier at defending Kobe.

Hell, Anthony Carter = Shane Battier at defending Kobe. :lol

[mudyez]

There is no such thing as Kobe stopper. It takes a solid team defense to truly contain him.

agree, but its not like the Spurs aren't a team, that knows how to play teamdefense.

[Thompson]

Another trade mentioned previously would be Finley/Bonner/1st for John Salmons, who has 2 years remaining between 5 and 6 million per year. This would also give the Bulls more capspace in 2010.

[Ditty]

lol at me mentioning battier like a week or so ago

damn stuff spreads

but wouldnt mind raja on the team

talk to bobcats RC

we need some defesnive wings

[bishopospurs]

Two words and they rhyme with Pleasedon'tva Leavemegori-a.
Does anyone here honestly believe an athlete would follow his wife to play for a bitter rival, money and legacy be damned?

[bdictjames]

If we could get Boris Diaw

That would be great.

The guy is like a smarter Lamar Odom.

[Mr. Body]

I'll take Raja Bell.

The guy is kind of a cock and you need defenders like that.

[mudyez]

Another trade mentioned previously would be Finley/Bonner/1st for John Salmons, who has 2 years remaining between 5 and 6 million per year. This would also give the Bulls more capspace in 2010.

I dont think Salmons is what we are seeking...I like him and basically he would fit in, but now that we have RJ I dont see, why we should trade for him, rather than other mentioned players

[J.T.]

This is a very interesting time to be a Spurs fan. So kick back, enjoy a sip of Patrón as I am doing, and savor it.

-MB

I had a sip of wine myself as a tip of the hat to Pop.

[bishopospurs]

agree, but its not like the Spurs aren't a team, that knows how to play teamdefense.
agreed, on top of that I don't think Kobe looked like Kobe for 75% of these last playoffs, and that is playing against weak competition

[Marcus Bryant]

Why on Earth would the Spurs give Houston Splitter's rights, next year's 1st rounder, and $6 million in expiring contracts to use before next February's trade deadline?

We are discussing improving the NBA franchise in San Antonio, are we not?

Spurs need to deal with Charlotte and LB or with Indiana for one of their Caucasians.

[timvp]

Kobe has scored 45 or more points on Battier six times. Kobe has scored 53 or more points on Battier three times. To compare, Kobe has never scored more than 45 on Bowen and only once against Bell.

Scratch that idea of sending Splitter and a pick for Battier. Bell is cheaper and has a much better history of not getting curbstomped by Kobe.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I think, realistically, Parker bolts for LA as soon as Duncan leaves. He will be fondly remembered in SATown.

Duncan retires at the end of 2011-12, TP's contract is up in 2010-11 along with RJ, Dice (and Battier). What TP does when his contract is up is a complete mystery to me, although I'll also point out that he'll be turning 29 during the 2010-11 playoffs. As a guy who relies on his quickness, and will have been in the NBA 11 years by then, isn't that about the time he's going to start to slow down?

What I'm getting at is we have 2009-10 and 2010-11 to challenge for the title, and given the moves the FO has already made, it's time to lay it all on the line.


But I still like Diaw on this team. I think the leadership both on and off the court can help Diaw thrive. Can you imagine Diaw and Gino coming off the bench to take over the scoring for Parker and Duncan when they for a rest?

Why would they give Diaw to us, and where's the 9mil you need to trade for him coming from? Also, he's more a 4 than a 3, and a defensive wing is what we need.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Diaw fan, but I just don't see how he fits here.


Um, no. Battier didn't do shit other than put his hand in Kobe's face while he was shooting.

Battier's defense of Kobe is such a myth. Let's take a look at the first two rounds of the playoffs for Kobe this year (vs. Utah, then vs. Houston and the 'great' Shane Battier):

vs. Utah: 40.6 MPG, .466 FG%, 27.4 PPG, 3.8 TO/G.

vs. Hous: 38 MPG, .453, 27.4 PPG, 1.57 TO/G.

So, in two less minutes per game than what he played against Utah, he was able to match his scoring average from round 1, and cut his turnovers per game by more than half. His shooting percentages went down a whopping 1.3%.

Yep, Kobe stopper indeed!

And let's not even get into regular season (okay, let's!):

Teams Kobe had a lower shooting percentage against in the regular season than Houston (I only included teams that he played 4 times to make it a true, fair comparison - larger sample size):

Denver, Golden State, Clippers, Minnesota, New Orleans, Phoenix, Portland. Out of ten teams the Lakers played four times this past regular season, SEVEN of the teams held Kobe to lower FG% than Houston and the great Shane Battier.

In short, pass.


There is no such thing as Kobe stopper. It takes a solid team defense to truly contain him.

AHF, how does House's observation fit with yours? Surely Battier would be able to be more effective in the Spurs system?

Question to all - at this point in their careers, who is the better defender of elite wings: Battier or Bell?

[Vic Petro]

Battier isn't happening. There is no chance that Morey trades him to the Spurs, and I think somebody would beat our cap relief offer anyway.

I also don't think they commit money to Anthony Carter or trade for a backup point. It's only a big problem if Tony gets hurt. Otherwise Hill and Ginobili can handle it, and you know Pop thinks Mason can handle it too. He can get by with what he has on the roster now. They can always sign a DLeague PG like Blake Ahearn if the need arises. Other than Carter, I don't think a street FA would be markedly worse than what's available now anyway.

The most likely scenario, IMO, is Finley and Bonner get shipped out for the best big the team can acquire. The 2 for 1 opens up a spot for Bruce, who comes back for defense/continuity sake.

Parker-Hill
Mason-Ginobili-McClinton-Hairston
Jefferson-Bowen-Gist
McDyess-Haislip-Blair
Duncan-{BIG}-Mahinmi

*fixed

[mudyez]

Kobe has scored 45 or more points on Battier six times. Kobe has scored 53 or more points on Battier three times. To compare, Kobe has never scored more than 45 on Bowen and only once against Bell.


if someone runs hot, he runs hot...aside from some unfair stuff, there isn't much more you can do if Kobe gets hot! I don't think you can tell a good defender by these stats coz its mor like having luck not playing him that night. overall I think defense can't be messured in any stat. Battier is a great defender. in terms of Bowen great? No! but as far as you can get at this moment!

[Darkwaters]

Kobe has scored 45 or more points on Battier six times. Kobe has scored 53 or more points on Battier three times. To compare, Kobe has never scored more than 45 on Bowen and only once against Bell.

Scratch that idea of sending Splitter and a pick for Battier. Bell is cheaper and has a much better history of not getting curbstomped by Kobe.

Realistically, what do you send to get Bell? Expirings? Is that all Larry Brown will want?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I'm going to sound like a broken record to some, but how bout some Tayshaun Prince? He's like a Battier clone at a much lower premium.


I've been looking at Prince for a long time too. His height and those long arms make for a great small ball line up. Not to mention he's an amazing defender.

Detroit just signed Villanueva, so I'd imagine Prince may be had for the right price.

Huh? Prince is due 22mil over the next two years, Battier 13mi.

We've already brought in RJ to be the SF, where are we finding time and money for Tayshaun from?

The beauty of Battier is that he's reasonably priced and doesn't mind coming off the bench. Prince doesn't fit that at all.

[will_spurs]

I would love to se Diaw (or Noah) in a Spurs jersey but I don't feel like it's going to happen.

However I thought Chicago wanted to "get rid" of Tyrus Thomas and Finley+Bonner vs Thomas works. That's 2 expiring contracts for Chicago to get in a better spot in 2010.

[Darkwaters]

Tyrus Thomas sucks. Period.

[timvp]

Realistically, what do you send to get Bell? Expirings? Is that all Larry Brown will want?

I'm not sure what it'd take. The Bobcats have been trying to use his expiring contract to get players other teams may want to salary dump. It'd be tricky because both teams would be offering expiring contracts :lol

Maybe send a pick? The best hope is probably Bell telling the Bobcats that he wants a legit chance at a championship and LB liking Bonner and Finley for some whatever reason. Sometimes LB likes to trade just to trade so there's a chance . . .

[mudyez]

btw.:
why expect anything more to happen?
we have done great!

now just lets see how its working and come trade deadline explore our needs and chances!
its not like we are a big market team...these expirings could be nice for us, just to save some money! especially if the team looks good come february.

so basically all I want to see is bringing back Bruce (and maybe Kurt)

(I know, its fun doing trades and so on...but the Spurs never were one of these fantasy league type of teams)

[timvp]

I think Diaw sticks with the Bobcats. He's a big favorite of LB and he fits perfectly next to Okafor.

[phxspurfan]

if someone runs hot, he runs hot...aside from some unfair stuff, there isn't much more you can do if Kobe gets hot! I don't think you can tell a good defender by these stats coz its mor like having luck not playing him that night. overall I think defense can't be messured in any stat. Battier is a great defender. in terms of Bowen great? No! but as far as you can get at this moment!

Ok, then there's too much to give up (as proposed) for this type of contribution from Battier.

[MaNu4Tres]

We stand pat til we get close to the trading deadline.

If our young big men don't live up to the bill, Camby would make a lot of sense.

If your young bigs do live up to the bill, then we could turn our attention towards a wing like Raja Bell.

Our team doesn't need a 3rd string point guard. That would just eat up a roster spot.

[weebo]

Duncan retires at the end of 2011-12, TP's contract is up in 2010-11 along with RJ, Dice (and Battier). What TP does when his contract is up is a complete mystery to me, although I'll also point out that he'll be turning 29 during the 2010-11 playoffs. As a guy who relies on his quickness, and will have been in the NBA 11 years by then, isn't that about the time he's going to start to slow down?

What I'm getting at is we have 2009-10 and 2010-11 to challenge for the title, and given the moves the FO has already made, it's time to lay it all on the line.



Why would they give Diaw to us, and where's the 9mil you need to trade for him coming from? Also, he's more a 4 than a 3, and a defensive wing is what we need.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Diaw fan, but I just don't see how he fits here.





AHF, how does House's observation fit with yours? Surely Battier would be able to be more effective in the Spurs system?

Question to all - at this point in their careers, who is the better defender of elite wings: Battier or Bell?

On this current Spurs team? Bowen.

[Thompson]

I'm not sure what it'd take. The Bobcats have been trying to use his expiring contract to get players other teams may want to salary dump. It'd be tricky because both teams would be offering expiring contracts :lol

Maybe send a pick? The best hope is probably Bell telling the Bobcats that he wants a legit chance at a championship and LB liking Bonner and Finley for some whatever reason. Sometimes LB likes to trade just to trade so there's a chance . . .

Plus that #*@$@ owes us for the Jackie Butler signing and all the garbage that resulted from it.

[phxspurfan]

I wonder if Buford has staff reading this site for ideas...

[Nathan Explosion]

Why would they give Diaw to us, and where's the 9mil you need to trade for him coming from? Also, he's more a 4 than a 3, and a defensive wing is what we need.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Diaw fan, but I just don't see how he fits here.

If Charlotte is out of the playoff race, offering them cap space for the summer might be a good jumping off point.

Pop has a good rapport with Larry Brown, so there's also a start. I never said it was likely, but we were talking about targets we would like to see with the team.

But if I'm the Spurs, I'm calling the Bobcats almost every day starting in December/January asking them what they want for Diaw or Bell.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Kobe has scored 45 or more points on Battier six times. Kobe has scored 53 or more points on Battier three times. To compare, Kobe has never scored more than 45 on Bowen and only once against Bell.

Scratch that idea of sending Splitter and a pick for Battier. Bell is cheaper and has a much better history of not getting curbstomped by Kobe.

Okay, you (and Kori and AHF) have sold me, no Battier. Them's some pretty damning numbers. :lol

Bell's only earning 5.25 mil, so Finley and Bonner works. Has Bell got much left in the tank though?

[timvp]

Looking at it, I'd take Bell over Battier. Battier is a good defender but not that good of a defender against Kobe. Bell shoots much better and scores almost twice as many points per minute as Battier. Battier's scoring has dipped down into Bowen range.

Bell is also with a team that will work with the Spurs. Battier is on a team that will require the Spurs to overpay. Plus, you could start Bell at shooting guard and keep RJ at small forward to form one hell of a defensive tandem.

I'm not sure how to do it but Bell sounds like a damn good fit now that I think about it.

[poeticism707]

Okay, you (and Kori and AHF) have sold me, no Battier. Them's some pretty damning numbers. :lol

Bell's only earning 5.25 mil, so Finley and Bonner works. Has Bell got much left in the tank though?

Yeah, those numbers are tough to argue with.

However, with the Spurs team backing him up, as Bowen has throughout his illustrious career, I still think Battier could fare MUCH BETTER.

In essence, Battier is being underrated because of the teams he played on.

Nonetheless, Bell might still be a better pickup.

[Russ]

Plus that #*@$@ owes us for the Jackie Butler signing and all the garbage that resulted from it.

Yep, Pop layed a dime on LB when he steered Raja Bell his way for nothing. His repayment -- Little Jackie Papers.

[murpjf88]

what ever we can do to unload Bonner, I would be greatful.

[MaNu4Tres]

Question to all - at this point in their careers, who is the better defender of elite wings: Battier or Bell?

Bell is a better defender against quicker wings. Battier is a better defender against bigger wings.

Bell has been through more wars than Battier and always has performed and is aggressive. Battier is more of a passive defender than Bell. ( If that makes any sense).

You can't go wrong with either. Both would be an upgrade to Finley/ Mason.

I just think Bell is the more realistic solution and he has been to Normandy, Gettisburg, Bunker Hill, ect. With his battles against Lakers/ Spurs/ Mavs.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If Charlotte is out of the playoff race, offering them cap space for the summer might be a good jumping off point.

Pop has a good rapport with Larry Brown, so there's also a start. I never said it was likely, but we were talking about targets we would like to see with the team.

But if I'm the Spurs, I'm calling the Bobcats almost every day starting in December/January asking them what they want for Diaw or Bell.

We don't have enough capspace that I can see. We can't give up Bonner, Fin AND Mason (we actually need to keep a shooter or two!), and beyond that we'd have to give up Bonner, Fin and two of Hill/Mahinmi/Williams which just isn't happening. Besides, Diaw was fantastic for the Bobcats last year - he finally looked like the guy he'd always threatened to be.

Bell I can see, Diaw not so much.

[jcrod]

No way on Shane, I really like the Bell idea. As mentioned, better scorer and better defender.

And don't forget ex-spur traning campie who Pop recommend to Larry Brown in Philly.

[Darkwaters]

I'm not sure what it'd take. The Bobcats have been trying to use his expiring contract to get players other teams may want to salary dump. It'd be tricky because both teams would be offering expiring contracts :lol

Maybe send a pick? The best hope is probably Bell telling the Bobcats that he wants a legit chance at a championship and LB liking Bonner and Finley for some whatever reason. Sometimes LB likes to trade just to trade so there's a chance . . .

Ahh, I just saw that. So why did Marcus post a bunch of expirings on his write-up? They're not really good targets for us. Better targets would be guys with 2-3 years left so that we could give immediate cap relief to the team giving the player up.

[Nathan Explosion]

We don't have enough capspace that I can see. We can't give up Bonner, Fin AND Mason (we actually need to keep a shooter or two!), and beyond that we'd have to give up Bonner, Fin and two of Hill/Mahinmi/Williams which just isn't happening. Besides, Diaw was fantastic for the Bobcats last year - he finally looked like the guy he'd always threatened to be.

Bell I can see, Diaw not so much.

Again, I never said it was easy or likely. But giving up expiring contracts along with picks, cash considerations, Euro/NBA prospects or some combination of the like would have to do.

The Spurs are over the cap and Holt said it doesn't matter, so claiming that the Spurs don't have the cap space really isn't a valid argument in a trade. Just matching the contracts would be the key.

[Darkwaters]

Looking at it, I'd take Bell over Battier. Battier is a good defender but not that good of a defender against Kobe. Bell shoots much better and scores almost twice as many points per minute as Battier. Battier's scoring has dipped down into Bowen range.

Bell is also with a team that will work with the Spurs. Battier is on a team that will require the Spurs to overpay. Plus, you could start Bell at shooting guard and keep RJ at small forward to form one hell of a defensive tandem.

I'm not sure how to do it but Bell sounds like a damn good fit now that I think about it.

This is starting to get like an NBA video game where you trade around the league and build your ultimate team.

Richard Jefferson
Antonio McDyess
DeJuan Blair

...and potentially a guy like Raja Bell....

Just 12 months ago this was an absolute dream.

[jcrod]

Shit I'll do Mason and Bonner for Bell.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Looking at it, I'd take Bell over Battier. Battier is a good defender but not that good of a defender against Kobe. Bell shoots much better and scores almost twice as many points per minute as Battier. Battier's scoring has dipped down into Bowen range.

Bell is also with a team that will work with the Spurs. Battier is on a team that will require the Spurs to overpay. Plus, you could start Bell at shooting guard and keep RJ at small forward to form one hell of a defensive tandem.

I'm not sure how to do it but Bell sounds like a damn good fit now that I think about it.


Bell is a better defender against quicker wings. Battier is a better defender against bigger wings.

Bell has been through more wars than Battier and always has performed and is aggressive. Battier is more of a passive defender than Bell. ( If that makes any sense).

You can't go wrong with either. Both would be an upgrade to Finley/ Mason.

I just think Bell is the more realistic solution and he has been to Normandy, Gettisburg, Bunker Hill, ect. With his battles against Lakers/ Spurs/ Mavs.

Yeah, you guys are right, Bell does sound like a better move. I had written him off because I remember a lot of talk about him being done when he recovered slowly from that injury last year, but he came on after that and did a good job. :tu

So, for the perfect off-season, an absolute 10/10, Finley and Bonner (and a 2nd rounder if necessary) for Bell to fill our final need (a wing defender), and to remove from Pop's grasp the temptation of playing Fin/Bonner too much! :lol Sounds good to me.

If not, well, we've already been spoiled. :D

PS Guys - at this point, honestly, rather have Raja or Bruce? I want ot say Bruce, but at 38 I'm just not sure he can do the job we need him to any more.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Again, I never said it was easy or likely. But giving up expiring contracts along with picks, cash considerations, Euro/NBA prospects or some combination of the like would have to do.

The Spurs are over the cap and Holt said it doesn't matter, so claiming that the Spurs don't have the cap space really isn't a valid argument in a trade. Just matching the contracts would be the key.

Again, we don't have the contracts is exactly my point.

Take a look for yourself. We just don't have the dollars to give them.

[Blackjack]

Spurs need to deal with Charlotte and LB or with Indiana for one of their Caucasians.


Scratch that idea of sending Splitter and a pick for Battier. Bell is cheaper and has a much better history of not getting curbstomped by Kobe.

Those made me :lol



Question to all - at this point in their careers, who is the better defender of elite wings: Battier or Bell?

I'd say Battier is the better more versatile defender but when it comes to guarding someone like Kobe, I'd lean more to Bell.

The problem with Battier's defense against Kobe isn't his ability to get to the right spots or technique, Kobe usually has to make a shot over a good contest and usually doesn't get bailed out by bad fouls, the problem with Shane is that he doesn't get into Kobe's head at all. Kobe isn't worried about getting undercut or being preoccupied with grabbing or holding, so he's free to get to his spots and feel comfortable. Kobe feels he can play his game and not have to worry about anything questionable because he knows Shane isn't going to do much that wouldn't be considered "above board."

Some call it dirty, others call it having an edge, but whatever you call it? It's what all the greats are noted for.

Bruce had it in spades and Raja, although never as great of a defender as Bowen, has it as well.

In the end, Kobe's going to get his. But, if you can get a guy that can get him a little too riled up or focusing on the wrong things at the right time, you tend to have a little more success against him.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Shit I'll do Mason and Bonner for Bell.

You're insane then! We can do FINLEY and Bonner for Bell! :lol

[DJB]

I would poop my pants if we could trade Bonner, Mason and Finley for Camby.

[timvp]

I agree with the notion that Battier is a little to "nice" when he goes against Kobe. As we've seen, Bell isn't afraid to clothesline Kobe if that's what it takes. :smokin

As for Bowen, I'd obviously be ecstatic if the Spurs bring him back. But I don't think he'd end up being more than the bit player he was last year. Besides, RC said the Spurs needed to add a perimeter defender -- even if Bowen is brought back.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The problem with Battier's defense against Kobe isn't his ability to get to the right spots or technique, Kobe usually has to make a shot over a good contest and usually doesn't get bailed out by bad fouls, the problem with Shane is that he doesn't get into Kobe's head at all. Kobe isn't worried about getting undercut or being preoccupied with grabbing or holding, so he's free to get to his spots and feel comfortable. Kobe feels he can play his game and not have to worry about anything questionable because he knows Shane isn't going to do much that wouldn't be considered "above board."

Some call it dirty, others call it having an edge, but whatever you call it? It's what all the greats are noted for.

Bruce had it in spades and Raja, although never as great of a defender as Bowen, has it as well.

In the end, Kobe's going to get his. But, if you can get a guy that can get him a little too riled up or focusing on the wrong things at the right time, you tend to have a little more success against him.

Great points. We absolutely need a guy who is going to get into Kobe's cranium, and there's no-one around who can do that better than Bell. Last year I got the feeling that Kobe isn't bothered by Bruce any more... just a feeling, but a strong one I felt when we played the Lakers.

[jcrod]

You're insane then! We can do FINLEY and Bonner for Bell! :lol

I don't know, Mason really disappointed me on the defense side. Sure he hit some clutch shots, but he was way to erratic on the offense side. Bell gives you very good defense with a reliable 3. I don't think Fin and Bonner can do it, that's why I'm saying i would do Mason.

[Tully365]

Very nice writeup, MB.:tu

We're definitely on the same page after that OP, and I had the same thought of a trade following the signing of 'Dyess.

My two points of concern would definitely be a defensive-wing (preferably 6' 6'' or over) and another capable defensive 5. (preferably 6' 10'' or over)

I've mentioned McGuire and Sefolosha incessantly on this board and have suggested trying to snag Battier after Houston's signing of Ariza and their misfortune with Yao, but Bogans seems like the type of player the Spurs would acquire. I think Sefolosha and Battier would be the best gets for a win now team, though. Sefolosha is basically a more physical Christie-type player, someone who could potentially run the point next to Hill, and Battier, like McDyess, is just one of those guys that scream "Spur" in character/professionalism. (Not to mention he's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league)

Splitter deciding to come over would be absolutely perfect to fill that 5 role, but this offseason really can't go that well, can it? I've always liked Foster and it would be nice to see the local guy have a chance to win a ring in his hometown (ala Devin) but I'm not sure where his game is at, at this point. I just haven't seen enough of him lately to make a good, honest assessment. If he's anywhere where he was 2 to 3 years ago he'd definitely be an asset and one I'd like to see the Spurs try an acquire.

I'm absolutely in disbelief at what the Spurs have done but with the way the contenders are loading up, filling that 5 and/or wing defender role might be an absolute must..

This upcoming season's playoffs are going to be absolutely bananas.:wow

:toast Nice post. I'm a fan of McGuire too. He'd be cheap, and he's buried in the depth chart in Washington.

He falls an inch short of your criteria, but what do you think of Shelden Williams as a defensive PF/C if Mahinmi doesn't look like he's ready yet? Again, he'd probably be an inexpensive pick up.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I would poop my pants if we could trade Bonner, Mason and Finley for Camby.

So you'd trade our 3 best outside threats for a guy whose potential position was just filled by signing Dice and drafting your namesake? Hmmmm... no. I think not.

[MaNu4Tres]

PS Guys - at this point, honestly, rather have Raja or Bruce? I want ot say Bruce, but at 38 I'm just not sure he can do the job we need him to any more.

It all depends on our young big situation. As of now we have Tim/ McDyess/ Bonner as the only big's who are proven. If our young big's live up to expectations by spurnation and earn a spot in the rotation then Bell would make a lot of sense.

If our young bigs ( Blair/ Mahimni/ Haislip/ Gist) don't end up living up to expections ( ie Mahimni/ Butler) then we would trade for a player like Camby to solidify the frontline. That's when I'd rather have Bowen than Bell.

Problem is Spurs have to make a decision on Bowen before that scenario plays out. Therefore lets hope Bowen has a change of heart about a possible player/ coach/ Lindsey Hunter role. That would be in a perfect world.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I don't know, Mason really disappointed me on the defense side. Sure he hit some clutch shots, but he was way to erratic on the offense side. Bell gives you very good defense with a reliable 3. I don't think Fin and Bonner can do it, that's why I'm saying i would do Mason.

Fair enough, I disagree about Mason though. I think Pop screwed with his confidence by playing him out of position, and I think his defence will improve after a year in the system (as seems to happen with most new Spurs).

I think, with the added scoring punch of RJ and thus a big 4, that Mo Money is going to bury 3s galore this year. All the pressure will be off him, and he'll be able to just spot up and shoot, which is what he does beautifully. In fact I'll go as far as to say that I think he'll be in the top 3 3pt shooters by % this year, and will knock down more than 2.5 a game.

Also, we really need to move Fin so Pop isn't tempted to overplay him! :lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

It all depends on our young big situation. As of now we have Tim/ McDyess/ Bonner as the only big's who are proven. If our young big's live up to expectations by spurnation and earn a spot in the rotation then Bell would make a lot of sense.

If our young bigs ( Blair/ Mahimni/ Haislip/ Gist) don't end up living up to expections ( ie Mahimni/ Butler) then we would trade for a player like Camby to solidify the frontline. That's when I'd rather have Bowen than Bell.

Problem is Spurs have to make a decision on Bowen before that scenario plays out. Therefore lets hope Bowen has a change of heart about a possible player/ coach/ Lindsey Hunter role. That would be in a perfect world.

Good points.

Like everything, it's about balancing risk - take Raja now and your young bigs have to come through or you're in trouble with no-one to trade for a guy like Camby at the deadline, or stand pat and keep your trading flexibility but lose out on teaching a guy like Bell the system. It's a tough one.

[MaNu4Tres]

Good points.

Like everything, it's about balancing risk - take Raja now and your young bigs have to come through or you're in trouble with no-one to trade for a guy like Camby at the deadline, or stand pat and keep your trading flexibility but lose out on teaching a guy like Bell the system. It's a tough one.

That's why Spurs more than likely will stand pat til later on, perhaps til late December- February and see how that young big situation plays out.

[GSH]

This is a trade that could actually get done. Think about it for a few seconds, before flaming:

Mason and Bonner to Detroit for Allen Iverson. It would be a sign and trade for Detroit, for about $5.6M. Iverson is talking about playing for Milwaukee for around $5M, so the money isn't a problem. It would save the Spurs almost $3M in cash this season, counting the Lux Tax. I think Iverson would jump at the chance to get a ring - the Spurs could probably get a team option on a second year at a reduced rate, in case he works out.

I know all the arguments against him. But he can still put up a shitload of points. And we were seriously considering Rasheed Wallace. Tell me he doesn't have at least as much baggage.

[Blackjack]

Great points. We absolutely need a guy who is going to get into Kobe's cranium, and there's no-one around who can do that better than Bell. Last year I got the feeling that Kobe isn't bothered by Bruce any more... just a feeling, but a strong one I felt when we played the Lakers.

Yeah, I liked the natural fit of a Battier on the Spurs but I'm starting to talk myself out of it.:lol

Bell is definitely looking better to me, but I've been touting Sefolosha and McGuire since they were both drafted. (Williams over McGuire still baffles me) I'd just love to see the Spurs find a way to acquire one of them. They've both got that "dog" (in the good way) in 'em. They're both versatile long defenders with some point-forward instincts, and they've still got some upside.

I haven't taken a hard look at each of their teams situation but the Wiz seemed to have added a good amount of swing-players this offseason. And the Thunder taking Harden, combined with who they've got at their swing already, might not leave too many minutes for Thabo.. Again, I haven't looked all that hard but a man can hope.:smokin

[timvp]

This is a trade that could actually get done. Think about it for a few seconds, before flaming:

Mason and Bonner to Detroit for Allen Iverson.
Pistons renounced AI and don't have the cap room to S&T him.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Pistons renounced AI and don't have the cap room to S&T him.

And anyway, just no. He showed how cancerous he can be, and we have enough scoring. Why take the risk?

[MaNu4Tres]

And anyway, just no. He showed how cancerous he can be, and we have enough scoring. Why take the risk?

Word is Memphis is seriously considering adding Iverson.

Imagine Iverson and Randolph both fighting to see who can out dribble/ shoot the other.

My condolences to Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo if that situation plays out.

[GSH]

Pistons renounced AI and don't have the cap room to S&T him.

Not that it matters, but I didn't think they had inked Charlie V yet. Maybe they have.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Word is Memphis is seriously considering adding Iverson.

Imagine Iverson and Randolph both fighting to see who can out dribble/ shoot the other.

My condolences to Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo if that situation plays out.

Yeah. Stay away from those guys in fantasy too. Weird team now:

Conley-Mayo-Gay-Randolph-M Gasol-AI

Sheesh! How the hell is that going to work!?!? :lmao

[SenorSpur]

Nice summary, MB. :tu

Bell is a good option, but I believe his defensive prowess has slipped a bit as he's become a much better offensive player, over the past couple of years. He's still a good defender - when he wants to be. I just think he's a bit overrated at this point in his career. I believe the time spent in PHX had something to do with that. I remember reading a piece on him about a year ago where he claimed he "wanted to be known for more than just being a defender." He also went onto say that he was concerned that as his kids got older, he didn't want them hearing about how their "daddy having a reputation as an on-court thug". That said, if I needed someone to go up against Kobe and not back down, he'd be the guy.

Battier is a good option and perfect potential Spurs player, in every way. Capable defender, a slight bit taller and longer than Bell. Can shoot the 3-ball with consistency. Smart, intelligent. If there was any one player molded to be a Spur - it'd be Battier. He'd fit right in. However as others have stated, Houston would be big fools to trade him within the division. I just can't see Daryl Morey (Houston GM) doing that.

Sefolosha is a young, improving player. Very athletic. Superb defender. Although I wouldn't say he's got the edge or the attitude to check a guy like Kobe. He be a wonderful defensive stopper, but desparately needs work on his shooting.

Diaw would also be a perfect fit on the team, but somehow I don't see LB turning him loose. Also now that he's a starter, does anyone expect him to want to be relegated to being a bench player?

AC Carter would also be a good option as a 3rd PG. He's solid on both sides of the ball, but has a tendency to be a bit shot-happy. The only issue I see with him is that last year with Denver, he was the 2nd banana to Chauncey. I just can't see him coming back to S.A. for a demotion - unless, of course, we get to Novemeber and he's run out of options.

Hypothetical question:
As we were all awaiting the start of free agency and were tossing around possible Spurs FA targets, most of us never dreamed Trevor Ariza would leave the Fakers. Obviously, his departure came after the RJ trade. In hindsight and looking at the events that took place, does anybody wish the Spurs could've somehow managed to wrestle him away from the Fakers? If so, would the RJ trade still have been necessary?

[timvp]

Hypothetical question:
As we were all awaiting the start of free agency and were tossing around possible Spurs FA targets, most of us never dreamed Trevor Ariza would leave the Fakers. Obviously, his departure came after the RJ trade. In hindsight and looking at the events that took place, does anybody wish the Spurs could've somehow managed to wrestle him away from the Fakers? If so, would the RJ trade still have been necessary?

RJ is a better player than Ariza. And if the Spurs would have gone after Ariza, there wouldn't have been room for McDyess.

RJ + McDyess >>> Ariza

[SenorSpur]

This is a trade that could actually get done. Think about it for a few seconds, before flaming:

Mason and Bonner to Detroit for Allen Iverson. It would be a sign and trade for Detroit, for about $5.6M. Iverson is talking about playing for Milwaukee for around $5M, so the money isn't a problem. It would save the Spurs almost $3M in cash this season, counting the Lux Tax. I think Iverson would jump at the chance to get a ring - the Spurs could probably get a team option on a second year at a reduced rate, in case he works out.

I know all the arguments against him. But he can still put up a shitload of points. And we were seriously considering Rasheed Wallace. Tell me he doesn't have at least as much baggage.

Don't even have to read the details of your trade proposal. Were you not watching the Pistons last year, when AI single-handedly caused that team to implode on itself? He refused to modify his style to suit the Pistons team concepts, never fit in (on or off the court and supposedly never talked to anyone while there), and finally he refused to blend in by coming off the bench.

Even now that he's a man without a country, he's offering conditions:
1. Refuses to play for the veterans minimum
2. Refuses to come off any team's bench.

AI has always played ball for AI - nothing more & nothing less. Sure, he's always played hard. He's always relied on his natural, god-given scoring abilities to get him over. It's worked up until that past year or so. It's just at this point in career, his skills and his FG% are declining, yet he still dominates the ball too much and continues jacking up shots at his usual incredible rate. He's basically a bad fit anywhere. STAY AWAY! :bang

[SenorSpur]

RJ is a better player than Ariza. And if the Spurs would have gone after Ariza, there wouldn't have been room for McDyess.

RJ + McDyess >>> Ariza

+1.
No question about it. I'd say it worked out pretty well.

[Blackjack]

Sefolosha is a young, improving player. Very athletic. Superb defender. Although I wouldn't say he's got the edge or the attitude to check a guy like Kobe. He be a wonderful defensive stopper, but desparately needs work on his shooting.

Don't be fooled, Thabo's fearless and pefectly capable of getting under ones skin. The best way I know to describe Thabo is D. Christie with balls. He's not the finished/polished player Christie was at his prime but he's got a similar ability to play the point-forward role (similar not as good) and he brings similar length and versatility. But, he also brings a physicality and toughness that maybe only Doug's wife might've had. (She's one tough dude) His offense is pretty decent inside the 3-point arc but he'd be greatly helped by some consistency in a good structure system where he knew where his shots were coming from. His 3-ball definitely does need some improving.(Although, he seemed to hit them against the Spurs in OKC:lol)

IOW, I should really be his agent.:king

[mathbzh]

I have a real problem with Diaw. He is one of my favorite player in the NBA (I am french).
But I don't think he is a player who can be effective playing for a contender. He needs the ball in his hands to be effective. He is great for a Bobcat team without a true leader or for the Suns without Stoudemire.
But if he had to be the 5th option behind Parker/Duncan/Jefferson/Ginobili I am afraid he would disappear like he did with the Suns once Amare came back.
Moreover, 9M$ a year for a 5th option sounds a bit excessive.

[MaNu4Tres]

Don't be fooled, Thabo's fearless and pefectly capable of getting under ones skin. The best way I know to describe Thabo is D. Christie with balls. He's not the finished/polished player Christie was at his prime but he's got a similar ability to play the point-forward role (similar not as good) and he brings similar length and versatility. But, he also brings a physicality and toughness that maybe only Doug's wife might've had. (She's one tough dude) His offense is pretty decent inside the 3-point arc but he'd be greatly helped by some consistency in a good structure system where he knew where his shots were coming from. His 3-ball definitely does need some improving.(Although, he seemed to hit them against the Spurs in OKC:lol)

IOW, I should really be his agent.:king

I doubt Presti traded a 1st rounder for a one year rental of Thabo. He will stay a Thunder even when his rookie scale contract runs out. No reason to trade him from Presti's perspective.

[poeticism707]

You're insane then! We can do FINLEY and Bonner for Bell! :lol
:king

[Blackjack]

I doubt Presti traded a 1st rounder for a one year rental of Thabo. He will stay a Thunder even when his rookie scale contract runs out. No reason to trade him from Presti's perspective.

Let's not let logic get in the way of my love-fest.:hat

[scottspurs]

I think the Spurs are doing whatever they can to dump the salaries of Bonner and Finley. It may not result in anything of value coming to the spurs, but it will open up roster spots.

[montgod]

I actually think the Spurs will be going in the direction of a 3rd pg. Hill and Mason (I hope Pop decides against using him in this spot) are okay... but not true pgs just yet. JJack would be a perfect addition, but maybe a little overkill for a 3rd pg. Price, Carter, and Hunter are decent cheap 3rd pgs also.

[MaNu4Tres]

I actually think the Spurs will be going in the direction of a 3rd pg. Hill and Mason (I hope Pop decides against using him in this spot) are okay... but not true pgs just yet. JJack would be a perfect addition, but maybe a little overkill for a 3rd pg. Price, Carter, and Hunter are decent cheap 3rd pgs also.

3rd pg is irrelevant. There's no minutes available for such a player anyway.

McClinton will be the 3rd PG , just for solely defending the opposing PG's and hitting down the open shot while Manu/ Hill/ RJ are doing the creating off the dribble offensively.

Jared Jack would be a great back up. Spurs already have that in Hill. No need to waste money/ roster spot on that. Especially with how many promising young cheap 2nd round picks we have all working their tails off to earn a spot on the roster.

[poeticism707]

Let's not let logic get in the way of my love-fest.:hat
:lol

[Kamnik]

And anyway, just no. He showed how cancerous he can be, and we have enough scoring. Why take the risk?

+1

I wouldn't want AI on this team even if he paid 1 mil to be here.

[mystargtr34]

I think Battier is probably the most overrated defender in the league. He had one good game against Kobe two years ago and it became legendary. That said, of course you trade Finley and Bonner for him. :lol He also fits the Spurs personality and has the same agent as Tim in Lon Babby.

I think they might trade for a point guard though. We have a bunch of guys who can play backup point in a pinch, but the Spurs may want more than that.

I think he might be slightly over rated in general. But hes still the ultimate glue guy and role player any team would like to have. After the playoff series between Houston and the Lakers, i dont think he's that over rated as a defender. There hasnt really been anyone who has defended Kobe better since Bruce Bowen back in about 2004. He was awesome defensively in that series.

[Bruno]

Among players presented by MB, Foster and Nocioni are the most interesting and realistic.

I also liked Collison but with the McDyess signing and with Collison's lack of shooting, he is clearly behind a player like Foster.

Between getting a C like Foster and a SF/PF like Nocioni, I'm not sure what is the best because it depends on what some of the players (Haislip, Hairston, Mahinmi..) will do next year. Spurs' FO has a better idea about that than us and if they are quite sure about their evaluations, they won't have to wait SL or the training camp to do a move.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

News flash - Dahntay Jones to the Pacers, 11mil/4yrs.

[alamo50]

Awesom post MB.
I'll take Sefolosha.

[mystargtr34]

Personally, i would go with another big first. The team still only has one true '7 footer' in Timmy. If he gets into foul trouble, there's not much size their to defend and rebound against teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Cavs and even the Blazers.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Manu4Tres made a really good point about Bonner/Finley and our current big rotation, and it goes like this... premises:
* in the bigman rotation, we currently have 3 proven vets in TD, Dice (and Bonner), and 3 unknown quantities in Mahinmi, Blair and Haislip,
* Bonner+Finley+Williams (or other small contract), plus pick/cash = guys like Foster and Camby.

So, is it wiser to trade Bon/ley and shore up the big rotation now with another vet just in case our 3 younguns fail, or better to hold on to Bon/ley as trade chips for closer to the deadline when we could make a similar move if things don't work out?

There are other variables here like whether or not we could currently trade for a guy like Camby (unlikely), what the hell we are going to do with Gist (Toros? Defensive 3?), what about the wing stopper we badly need, and how many bloody players are we going to sign this year (?), but let's stick to the central question.

My 2c:

(1) Keep Finley (as a shooter in spot minutes, and mentor), and Bonner (as a matchup/situational player), and both as trade chips for later in the season in case we need to trade for another big. Sign a cheap stopper (like Bowen) now. Play lots of the youngsters early in the season and DO NOT rely on Bonner and (especially) Finley for more than occasional duty (can we trust Pop to do this?).

Unfortunately, this means no Bell/other stopper.

OR

(2) Trade for Bell/other stopper right now and cross your fingers that the younguns fill out the big rotation as expected.

I'm torn. but leaning towards the second option - we spent money on Haislip, I believe Mahinmi has talent, and Blair looks to be a beast (but for the ACLs, he would have gone lottery). We need a stopper more than anything else, and it removes from Pop the temptation to fall back on his vets. In other words, BELIEVE in the youth! ;)

However, tough choice.

Comments?

[Spurs da champs]

I think Battier is probably the most overrated defender in the league. He had one good game against Kobe two years ago and it became legendary. That said, of course you trade Finley and Bonner for him. :lol He also fits the Spurs personality and has the same agent as Tim in Lon Babby.

I think they might trade for a point guard though. We have a bunch of guys who can play backup point in a pinch, but the Spurs may want more than that.

Thank you.

But why trade for a point guard, we've got george hill? They need somebody at the small foward a solid back up for RJ.

[mountainballer]

as good as the Spurs front court looks, it still lacks some size. either to compete with the Lakers, as well as the Celtics or Cavs in the possible finals.
we also shouldn't totally ignore the Mavs, adding Gortat, Marion and (in an under the rader move) Ross will make them a deep and versatile team.
so Foster would help a lot. he is the guy you can put on Gasol, Dirk, KG, Sheed as well as on Shaq. I agree that a player like Collison no longer makes much sense with McDyess on the roster.

I mention a possible move, that many of you will call pathetic, but I carelessly still mention it:

Matt Bonner for Kwame Brown.

that's just two guys with few or no future with their current teams swap places, with the small chance that they fill more needs in their new place.
pistons might like it, because that way they increase their cap space for about 750K.
I don't know exactly how much room they have left (we discussed in a lot because of the potential McDyess offers), it should be somewhere between 2 and 3 million $.
it does make a huge difference for them, if they could for example offer a target like Brandon Bass a contract starting at 3.2 instead of 2.5 million. (that's additional 2.5 million over 3 years) and that way finally get him.
the upside for the Spurs would be, that we get a guy with the size, athleticism and mobility we will need. Kwame did have some moments in the past, when he looked as if he could develop into a helpful defender. if there is potential in this department, Pop will discover it.

[poeticism707]

as good as the Spurs front court looks, it still lacks some size. either to compete with the Lakers, as well as the Celtics or Cavs in the possible finals.
we also shouldn't totally ignore the Mavs, adding Gortat, Marion and (in an under the rader move) Ross will make them a deep and versatile team.
so Foster would help a lot. he is the guy you can put on Gasol, Dirk, KG, Sheed as well as on Shaq. I agree that a player like Collison no longer makes much sense with McDyess on the roster.

I mention a possible move, that many of you will call pathetic, but I carelessly still mention it:

Matt Bonner for Kwame Brown.

that's just two guys with few or no future with their current teams swap places, with the small chance that they fill more needs in their new place.
pistons might like it, because that way they increase their cap space for about 750K.
I don't know exactly how much room they have left (we discussed in a lot because of the potential McDyess offers), it should be somewhere between 2 and 3 million $.
it does make a huge difference for them, if they could for example offer a target like Brandon Bass a contract starting at 3.2 instead of 2.5 million. (that's additional 2.5 million over 3 years) and that way finally get him.
the upside for the Spurs would be, that we get a guy with the size, athleticism and mobility we will need. Kwame did have some moments in the past, when he looked as if he could develop into a helpful defender. if there is potential in this department, Pop will discover it.

I like that trade! Spurs need all the help they can get in the frontcourt.

[TJastal]

I think Popovich will keep Bonner around for his 3pt shooting. If they had signed Wallace instead of McDyess then I could see dealing Bonner, but as it stands, he is the lone proven 3pt shooter among the bigs and I think Pop will enjoy being able to use him situationally as needed.

[Darkwaters]

Manu4Tres made a really good point about Bonner/Finley and our current big rotation, and it goes like this... premises:
* in the bigman rotation, we currently have 3 proven vets in TD, Dice (and Bonner), and 3 unknown quantities in Mahinmi, Blair and Haislip,
* Bonner+Finley+Williams (or other small contract), plus pick/cash = guys like Foster and Camby.

So, is it wiser to trade Bon/ley and shore up the big rotation now with another vet just in case our 3 younguns fail, or better to hold on to Bon/ley as trade chips for closer to the deadline when we could make a similar move if things don't work out?

There are other variables here like whether or not we could currently trade for a guy like Camby (unlikely), what the hell we are going to do with Gist (Toros? Defensive 3?), what about the wing stopper we badly need, and how many bloody players are we going to sign this year (?), but let's stick to the central question.

My 2c:

(1) Keep Finley (as a shooter in spot minutes, and mentor), and Bonner (as a matchup/situational player), and both as trade chips for later in the season in case we need to trade for another big. Sign a cheap stopper (like Bowen) now. Play lots of the youngsters early in the season and DO NOT rely on Bonner and (especially) Finley for more than occasional duty (can we trust Pop to do this?).

Unfortunately, this means no Bell/other stopper.

OR

(2) Trade for Bell/other stopper right now and cross your fingers that the younguns fill out the big rotation as expected.

I'm torn. but leaning towards the second option - we spent money on Haislip, I believe Mahinmi has talent, and Blair looks to be a beast (but for the ACLs, he would have gone lottery). We need a stopper more than anything else, and it removes from Pop the temptation to fall back on his vets. In other words, BELIEVE in the youth! ;)

However, tough choice.

Comments?

This is why I'm advocating for Andres Nocioni. He can play both on the perimeter and on the block. Plus his rapport with Ginobili already makes him a little more useful from day 1.

[stéphane]

A lot of people are including Finley in packages but I would be honestly surprised to see the spurs letting him go. They value him too much as a veteran and a solid piece on and off the court.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

as good as the Spurs front court looks, it still lacks some size. either to compete with the Lakers, as well as the Celtics or Cavs in the possible finals.
we also shouldn't totally ignore the Mavs, adding Gortat, Marion and (in an under the rader move) Ross will make them a deep and versatile team.
so Foster would help a lot. he is the guy you can put on Gasol, Dirk, KG, Sheed as well as on Shaq. I agree that a player like Collison no longer makes much sense with McDyess on the roster.

I mention a possible move, that many of you will call pathetic, but I carelessly still mention it:

Matt Bonner for Kwame Brown.

that's just two guys with few or no future with their current teams swap places, with the small chance that they fill more needs in their new place.
pistons might like it, because that way they increase their cap space for about 750K.
I don't know exactly how much room they have left (we discussed in a lot because of the potential McDyess offers), it should be somewhere between 2 and 3 million $.
it does make a huge difference for them, if they could for example offer a target like Brandon Bass a contract starting at 3.2 instead of 2.5 million. (that's additional 2.5 million over 3 years) and that way finally get him.
the upside for the Spurs would be, that we get a guy with the size, athleticism and mobility we will need. Kwame did have some moments in the past, when he looked as if he could develop into a helpful defender. if there is potential in this department, Pop will discover it.

Read my post above yours, brother! ;)

Foster now, or later?

Okay, I am making an assumtion here, but Blair has been pegged as the kind of guy who can come in and contribute immediately, and as a guy with shades of Malik Rose. Remember that, although way undersized, Rose used his bulk very effectively to frustrate big centres in short bursts. I'm thinking maybe Blair can do the same, although his being a rookie will count against him due to stupid officiating (I don't care who the player is, the game should be called exactly the same way for everyone! The propensity for rookies to earn more fouls simply because they are rookies, whether they actually committed them or not, annoys the hell out of me).

Ross was a good under the radar signing, but I reckon Bass will go to the Magic who currently have a huge hole in their front court (due to Battie and Gortat leaving).

[mudyez]

I wonder if Buford has staff reading this site for ideas...

no they are not...but there might be a very good chance of some hoopsworld writers making this a fact on their site

[Rover82]

Marc Gasol?

Seems the Grizz are loaded with Bigs right now.

[VivaPopovich]

excellent well written post, keep it up

[Spursmania]

Carter was hurt last time. The question is if the Spurs are still mad at him for signing with a gimpy knee.


Hmmm. Probably. I still don't think Morey would do it unless he could get Splitter over this year.

(and the Spurs could hypothetically give them a 2010 first round pick)


I think Carter is out of the question and on Pop's shit list because he played them and wasn't forthright about his knee. I just can't see him in a Spurs uniform again.

[MaNu4Tres]

Among players presented by MB, Foster and Nocioni are the most interesting and realistic.

I also liked Collison but with the McDyess signing and with Collison's lack of shooting, he is clearly behind a player like Foster.

Between getting a C like Foster and a SF/PF like Nocioni, I'm not sure what is the best because it depends on what some of the players (Haislip, Hairston, Mahinmi..) will do next year. Spurs' FO has a better idea about that than us and if they are quite sure about their evaluations, they won't have to wait SL or the training camp to do a move.

Interesting points Bruno,

It is reasonable they don't have to wait til SL or training camp to make a move. But don't you think it would make more sense to wait out and hold on to trade bait ( Bonner/ Finley draft pick) to see how the young big situation plays out?

If the young bigs turn out to be like Jackie Butler, don't you think if the Clippers are out of contention by late January, Camby could be available for as little as expirings and a 1st?

Or if the young bigs do turn out to be solid contributors to the rotation, don't you think if the Bobcats are out of contention, Bell could be available for as little as expirings and a 1st?

These scenarios I'm proposing only happen close to the trading deadline in February, once Bobcats and Clippers are out of contention.

IMO Spurs should stand pat til they know for sure what they have in their young bigs ( Mahimni/ Blair/ Haislip) and then make a move. Perhaps waiting this out and holding onto trade fodder close to the trade deadline, would give the Spurs better options ( especially with players on teams out of contention with expiring contracts) ( Camby vs. Foster) or a better contract and a better shooter/ defender at the wing ( Bell over Nocioni).

[tp2021]

Bruce>>>>>>>>>>>>Battier or Bell

[Darkwaters]

Bruce>>>>>>>>>>>>Battier or Bell

At 39 years old I'm not so sure.

[urunobili]

In order of preference of what could be done with Finley + Bonner plus William's rights:

1)
Nocioni in a Spurs uniform would be my dream.


2)
Bonner/Finley for Bell would be a good move.

3)
My only concern now is if TP goes down, there is no true backup at the point, offensively.

4)
James Jones?

5) Foster or Collison

Random appreciations...


I still honestly believe Pop thinks Mason can play the point. He can be a stubborn guy.


Looking at it, I'd take Bell over Battier.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i think we still need a thug on this team

[Darkwaters]

i think we still need a thug on this team


Visions or Horry are dancing through Suns fans heads now.

[MaNu4Tres]

Among players presented by MB, Foster and Nocioni are the most interesting and realistic.

I also liked Collison but with the McDyess signing and with Collison's lack of shooting, he is clearly behind a player like Foster.

Between getting a C like Foster and a SF/PF like Nocioni, I'm not sure what is the best because it depends on what some of the players (Haislip, Hairston, Mahinmi..) will do next year. Spurs' FO has a better idea about that than us and if they are quite sure about their evaluations, they won't have to wait SL or the training camp to do a move.

Interesting points Bruno,

It is reasonable they don't have to wait til SL or training camp to make a move. But don't you think it would make more sense to wait out and hold on to trade bait ( Bonner/ Finley draft pick) to see how the young big situation plays out?

If the young bigs turn out to be like Jackie Butler, don't you think if the Clippers are out of contention by late January, Camby could be available for as little as expirings and a 1st?

Or if the young bigs do turn out to be solid contributors to the rotation, don't you think if the Bobcats are out of contention, Bell could be available for as little as expirings and a 1st?

These scenarios I'm proposing only happen close to the trading deadline in February, once Bobcats and Clippers are out of contention.

IMO Spurs should stand pat til they know for sure what they have in their young bigs ( Mahimni/ Blair/ Haislip) and then make a move. Perhaps waiting this out and holding onto trade fodder close to the trade deadline, would give the Spurs better options ( especially with players on teams out of contention with expiring contracts) ( Camby vs. Foster) or a better contract and a better shooter/ defender at the wing ( Bell over Nocioni).

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Interesting points Bruno,

It is reasonable they don't have to wait til SL or training camp to make a move. But don't you think it would make more sense to wait out and hold on to trade bait ( Bonner/ Finley draft pick) to see how the young big situation plays out?

If the young bigs turn out to be like Jackie Butler, don't you think if the Clippers are out of contention by late January, Camby could be available for as little as expirings and a 1st?

Or if the young bigs do turn out to be solid contributors to the rotation, don't you think if the Bobcats are out of contention, Bell could be available for as little as expirings and a 1st?

These scenarios I'm proposing only happen close to the trading deadline in February, once Bobcats and Clippers are out of contention.

IMO Spurs should stand pat til they know for sure what they have in their young bigs ( Mahimni/ Blair/ Haislip) and then make a move. Perhaps waiting this out and holding onto trade fodder close to the trade deadline, would give the Spurs better options ( especially with players on teams out of contention with expiring contracts) ( Camby vs. Foster) or a better contract and a better shooter/ defender at the wing ( Bell over Nocioni).

I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense to bring in a stopper mid-season. I doubt there's enough time for the guy to learn the system (where his help is coming from and such). I think if we want a stopper other than Bruce we probably need to bring him in before training camp. OTOH, I think a big can adjust to what we need him to do more quickly.

Pity Jones went for 11mil over 4 years to Indiana - hell, we could happily have found a way to pay him that, surely?


i think we still need a thug on this team

You're not really familiar with DeJuan Blair yet, are you? :lol

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Having thought about it, my guess about what will happen is this - Bruce will be brought back for the minimum, Bonner and Finley will be kept as trading insurance. I just really hope that Pop doesn't give into the temptation to play them much. I can see 10-15 minutes for Bonner against the right matchups, but Finley... well, save him for plugging injury holes! :lol

I also think Blair is going to be better than most people expect, and Mahinmi will also outperform expectations (paticularly as an on-ball and weakside shot-blocker)... not hard when half the people around here seem to want to send him back to France. As for Haislip, I don't have a clue.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense to bring in a stopper mid-season. I doubt there's enough time for the guy to learn the system (where his help is coming from and such). I think if we want a stopper other than Bruce we probably need to bring him in before training camp. OTOH, I think a big can adjust to what we need him to do more quickly.



I agree if that player was reallly relied on and one the Spurs have to lean on. But that wouldn't be the case due to the depth on the Spurs (RJ/ Manu at the wing already taking up 65-70 minutes come playoff time) . That wing would see anywhere from 15-22 minutes a game, more than plausible.

[ElNono]

Having thought about it, my guess about what will happen is this - Bruce will be brought back for the minimum, Bonner and Finley will be kept as trading insurance. I just really hope that Pop doesn't give into the temptation to play them much. I can see 10-15 minutes for Bonner against the right matchups, but Finley... well, save him for plugging injury holes! :lol

I also think Blair is going to be better than most people expect, and Mahinmi will also outperform expectations (paticularly as an on-ball and weakside shot-blocker)... not hard when half the people around here seem to want to send him back to France. As for Haislip, I don't have a clue.

TBH, after his display in the Summer League last season (which is the last time we had a good look at him) I've downgraded my expectations a whole lot about Ian. Hope he proves me wrong this season.

[Bukefal]

I would want to see Diaw with the spurs.

[urunobili]

If Ian doesn't look well the Spurs will go out aggressively to get a 7 footer... Collison or Foster

[tp2021]

We could put together two packages that send out more players than we get back, and address both positions. We shall see, but it's hard to look at this roster and not think another deal is on the way (or two).

What packages were you thinking?

[Russ]

TBH, after his display in the Summer League last season (which is the last time we had a good look at him) I've downgraded my expectations a whole lot about Ian. Hope he proves me wrong this season.

I would imagine Mahinmi will be released after the first months of the season (unless he surprises on a number of levels).

If he had actually turned out to be what the Spurs thought he was when they drafted him, an athletic, long, defender, he could have been just what the Spurs need now. But I'm afraid the FO struck out on this gamble. Time to cut their losses and move on.

[tp2021]

Bruce>>>>>>>>>>>>Battier or Bell


At 39 years old I'm not so sure.

I meant defensively to be more specific. I just really want Bruce back, honestly.

[45 bank shot]

I meant defensively to be more specific. I just really want Bruce back, honestly.

let it go

[picnroll]

How about Spurs solving the backup PG problem once and for all.

Whatever it takes including Splitter's rights, 2010 pick, even George Hill for

Ramon Sessions. He's long enough to play SG a little even.

[Marcus Bryant]

I would imagine Mahinmi will be released after the first months of the season (unless he surprises on a number of levels).

If he had actually turned out to be what the Spurs thought he was when they drafted him, an athletic, long, defender, he could have been just what the Spurs need now. But I'm afraid the FO struck out on this gamble. Time to cut their losses and move on.

"Losses"? He hasn't had a chance to show what he can do on a NBA court. But I guess he's a 'bust' (if the 28th pick can be) at the ripe old age of 22.

[coyotes_geek]

How about Spurs solving the backup PG problem once and for all.

Whatever it takes including Splitter's rights, 2010 pick, even George Hill for

Ramon Sessions. He's long enough to play SG a little even.

Sessions would be great, but after giving away Jefferson and letting Villanueva walk I'd think the Bucks intend on keeping Sessions.

Then again, maybe the Bucks are going into Clippers mode and just don't want to pay anyone.

[antimvp]

get stephen jackson back.

[Muser]

Bell/Diaw/Nocioni would be great.

[CGD]

Bell/Diaw/Nocioni would be great.

I think Bell is the most sensible. He makes $5.2M this year and would come off the books next summer. Bell provides the Spurs with a lockdown defender on the wings in spot minute situations.

Noc -- while I'm a huge fan of the guy -- makes less sense from a cap point of view because his contract goes through 2012/13 (though the last year is a team option). I fear we might be tying our hands down when it's time to make a decision on TP/RJ in 2011 (and that assumes we don't extend Manu in 2010).

Diaw is too pricey and large part of what Larry Brown wants to do in Charlotte.

Someone suggested Camby for expirings and a 1st. This make little sense for the Clips since he too is an expiring contract, and comes off their books next summer. I'm not so convinced our first alone will be enough to entice the Clips, especially since they will probably want to use Camby's expiring contract as part of a more lucrative trade that -- get this -- is in their interest.

Collison makes sense but only if Ian is an 100% certified bust. Ian's contract is a Team Option next year (like this year), so in the event he stinks it up, we can pick up Nick this year, let Ian go next summer, and bring in Tiago without creating a log-jam with our bigs.

[SenorSpur]

on the free agent market, anthony carter makes some sense. He's like a bigger vaughn with more left in the tank. He's a pretty damn good passer and his range is improving.

Boring name but as a third point guard for minimum, i don't see a better option.

+1

[completely deck]

, and bring in Tiago without creating a log-jam with our bigs.

I honestly don't see Splitter coming over to play for us, ever.

[Russ]

"Losses"? He hasn't had a chance to show what he can do on a NBA court. But I guess he's a 'bust' (if the 28th pick can be) at the ripe old age of 22.

It's been four years.

He's about one year younger than Darko Milicic who's been in the league basically forever.

If you don't think he's a "bust," ask yourself this question and answer honestly --- If the Spurs had the '05 draft to do over would they take Mahinmi in the 1st Round? Ahead of David Lee and others.

I do not think anyone can credibly argue that the Spurs would make that pick again.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah, those numbers are tough to argue with.

However, with the Spurs team backing him up, as Bowen has throughout his illustrious career, I still think Battier could fare MUCH BETTER.

In essence, Battier is being underrated because of the teams he played on.

Nonetheless, Bell might still be a better pickup.

You can go back over the last two years. At various points Battier had some combination of Dikembe, Yao, Scola, etc. backing him up.

Bowen had Duncan and Bonner/Finley. Which is more damning?

[SenorSpur]

If you can get Battier for Splitter's rights, Bonner, Finley, and a first round 2010 pick Spurs don't won't to pay for, YOU DO IT.

YOU DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

Not so fast. I love Battier too. However, you DO NOT send away yet another 1st round pick. We've watched this movie play out with the KT trade. The Spurs had no pick in this most recent 2009 NBA draft. Sure, the Spurs were very, very fortunate to have had a top college player, like Blair, simply fall into their laps. They just got lucky. Even still, that didn't perclude them from desparately trying to "trade up" into the first round to target a couple of players they knew would never make it to them in the 2nd. That early 2nd round pick saved their asses.

The point is, the Spurs are about 2 years away from having to rebuild again. First round picks are solid, golden assets that are critical to building your team. We all know that it usually takes a couple of years to develop rookie talent. We also know the Spurs MUST WIN NOW. They can do that as presently constructed - with or without Battier. It would be very foolish for the Spurs to simply trade away picks as part of trade packages. If they can't get a deal done for him, or anyone else for that matter, without doing sacrificing first round picks, don't do the deal. Don't make the mistake of 2 years ago.

[benefactor]

I don't see why LB would want Finley or Bonner...so Bell is probably a serious stretch. Nocioni is interesting and his contract is decent, but unless Sacto is just desperate to dump salary for 2010 I doubt they part with him for what we are offering(they already have Spencer Hawes, why would they want Bonner?). TBQH, I don't see a lot of good trade options for a wing. I think the defensive wing issue will be preliminarily resolved by bringing back Bowen or signing Bogans. I also hope that Hairston can step up this season and give us some good minutes.

If we are going to explore a trade I see something like Foster being more realistic. I like Collison too, but in thinking about what others have said in regards to his fit now that we have McDyess I agree that he is probably not really the best option now.

[mudyez]

I believe we have to sit this out...as said: we should take a look at what the team can do with the young guns, while other teams will fall out of contention, deciding to cut payroll...sadly Bell and Camby dont make sense though, coz they are expiring themself and there should be other tradepartners, that can offer more than a low 1st rounder (essentially worse than a high 2nd rounder).

there will be options, but I dont see a player coming here, that has an expiring...saying that: we owe it to Peter Holt, that he might use these expirings himself, rather than pushing the lux tax even more

my point: try to resign Bruce (still like the idea of Kurt coming back too!) and start the season with what we have...come next year we might see other options, but intill then I like what we have at hand

[mountainballer]

Sessions would be great, but after giving away Jefferson and letting Villanueva walk I'd think the Bucks intend on keeping Sessions.

Then again, maybe the Bucks are going into Clippers mode and just don't want to pay anyone.

remember, Spurs were quite interested in Sessions 2007, they had him in twice for work outs. (didn't pick him. I guess b/c SF was more of a need and not owning 3 pt range also didn't help his case)
but in the current situation, Spurs don't have any chance to get him. so why even think about it. would be more interesting to ask: which player is on the market, who provides similar qualities AND could be had for the right price?
(to tell the truth, I have no idea)

but overall this leads to a very interesting question: if the Spurs think they still don't have the back up PG they need, what would be the consequences?
this would mean that they are totally over equipped at SG with Manu, Mason, Hill (+McClinton, ev. DeColo next year) plus Finley, Hairston, M.Williams.
this would produce the need to move some of them, even if we like all of them.
I really can see that the Spurs love McClinton and I think he will be a great steal. but what does this mean for the roster. Hill and Mason and McClinton? all of them in the back up SG role? can't see this. and even if they start some experiments with McClinton at PG, it will take years till this will be more than a pre season scenario.
IMO, if McClinton impresses in the summer league, either Mason or Hill will be on the block. both do have some value in minor trade scenarios. and Spurs will try to bring back a big veteran PG, who can defend at SG and who could play alongside McClinton and (whoever will stay) Mason or Hill. I'm thinking about a Antonio Daniels type player. (not him in person, his contract is bad. expiring though).

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

"Losses"? He hasn't had a chance to show what he can do on a NBA court. But I guess he's a 'bust' (if the 28th pick can be) at the ripe old age of 22.

Beat me to it.


It's been four years.

He's about one year younger than Darko Milicic who's been in the league basically forever.

If you don't think he's a "bust," ask yourself this question and answer honestly --- If the Spurs had the '05 draft to do over would they take Mahinmi in the 1st Round? Ahead of David Lee and others.

I do not think anyone can credibly argue that the Spurs would make that pick again.

How can the kid be a bust when he was drafted as an 18yo (basically, straight out of high school), brought over two years later, and has since been ravaged by injuries, including the ankle last year that was misdiagnosed and took him out for the season? are you gonna blame him for the misdiagnosis too? Jeez, give the kid a chance.

Comparing him to Darko, who has actually been playing for most of the time he's been in the NBA, is garbage. Mahinmi tore up the DL in 2007-8 and obviously has talent, now we'll see whether it's NBA-level talent. Think of him as a kid coming out of four-year college - that's a much better comparison than Darko.

As for the 2005 draft - hindsight is always 20/20, that says absolutely nothing about Mahinmi's potential going forward.

[Cheddz]

I've always wished that Jeff "the Enforcer" Foster was a Spur. He's not the most talented guy out there, but he outhustles anyone. He also has a pretty slick dunk over Corey Maggette that I never get sick of seeing.

http://www.memoram.com/Forest_whiteManCanJump.jpg

[tp2021]

To steal Ruff's abbreviation, Bonley for Foster would be a great pickup.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Would the Rockets even be willing to give up Battier? Mostly because him and Ariza play the same position? Those two would be beasts on the perimeter for Houston.

[Marcus Bryant]

It's been four years.

He's about one year younger than Darko Milicic who's been in the league basically forever.

If you don't think he's a "bust," ask yourself this question and answer honestly --- If the Spurs had the '05 draft to do over would they take Mahinmi in the 1st Round? Ahead of David Lee and others.

I do not think anyone can credibly argue that the Spurs would make that pick again.

Last season was his first opportunity to get minutes with the Spurs. Before that he was stuck behind a logjam of bigs. By all accounts the Spurs intended for him to get minutes last season, with Bonner as the 5th big. Factor in Oberto's decline and he could very well have had a shot at being the 1st big off the bench before the Spurs added Gooden.

I fail to see how Mahinmi, coming off a successful NBDL season in 2007-08, is somehow on the way out simply because due to injury and roster limitations he hasn't progressed as fast as some fans would like.

[coyotes_geek]

remember, Spurs were quite interested in Sessions 2007, they had him in twice for work outs. (didn't pick him. I guess b/c SF was more of a need and not owning 3 pt range also didn't help his case)
but in the current situation, Spurs don't have any chance to get him. so why even think about it. would be more interesting to ask: which player is on the market, who provides similar qualities AND could be had for the right price?
(to tell the truth, I have no idea)

but overall this leads to a very interesting question: if the Spurs think they still don't have the back up PG they need, what would be the consequences?
this would mean that they are totally over equipped at SG with Manu, Mason, Hill (+McClinton, ev. DeColo next year) plus Finley, Hairston, M.Williams.
this would produce the need to move some of them, even if we like all of them.
I really can see that the Spurs love McClinton and I think he will be a great steal. but what does this mean for the roster. Hill and Mason and McClinton? all of them in the back up SG role? can't see this. and even if they start some experiments with McClinton at PG, it will take years till this will be more than a pre season scenario.
IMO, if McClinton impresses in the summer league, either Mason or Hill will be on the block. both do have some value in minor trade scenarios. and Spurs will try to bring back a big veteran PG, who can defend at SG and who could play alongside McClinton and (whoever will stay) Mason or Hill. I'm thinking about a Antonio Daniels type player. (not him in person, his contract is bad. expiring though).

I don't see the Spurs trading for a PG, but I do think they'll look to pick someone up on a league min deal just for insurance. I'm not worried about the Spurs going into next season committed to the idea of making George Hill the backup PG. If the Spurs are going to trade I think they're going to be targeting a traditional center ala Foster, or a perimeter defender ala Raja.

While I don't doubt that RC is doing his due diligence in exploring trade opportunities ultimately, I don't see a trade happening. At least not one that isn't just a salary dump of Finley and/or Bonner. I'm certainly all in favor of RC pulling something off, but in all likelihood I think the roster is pretty much set with the only task remaining being a sifting through the various youngins and league min vets to round out the last couple of roster spots.

[mudyez]

side note:

there are some type of players, that are just looking like spurs...characterwise but also just coz of their playing style (defense players)...just those players you are trading for in 3 of 4 NBA2K seasons, coz you think, they are perfect guys for our enviroment...most of the times, exactly those guys became spurs at one point in their career...here ist the list:

hits:
latest one...Antonio McDyess
Michael Finley
Kurt Thomas
Jacque Vaughn (hate be, but I always thought he belongs here)
Charles Smith
Doc Rivers

misses:
Grand Hill
Eric Snow (I think a week shooter like him never was a good complement to Avery)
Loy Vaught (always wanted him next to Robinson)...maybe if he hadn't had these injuries problems which cut his career short


next one...Shane Battier! :-)...I'm not saying he will come here this year or next year, but my hit average is pretty good (hey more than 50% right while the spurs only own about 1/30 of the NBA players) and I see him coming here before his career ends!

[Russ]

I fail to see how Mahinmi, coming off a successful NBDL season in 2007-08, is somehow on the way out simply because due to injury and roster limitations he hasn't progressed as fast as some fans would like.

Time will tell.

I aspire to be completely wrong about Mahinmi but the tea leaves point otherwise. The French national team doesn't know he exits. No major Euro team wants him. No NBA team will trade for him. To the basketball world, he's Jackie Butler with an accent.

Spurs fans, alone, have any faith in him.

That said, hopefully he breaks out in the summer league and becomes the answer to the Spurs' search for an athletic big.

[mudyez]

Would the Rockets even be willing to give up Battier? Mostly because him and Ariza play the same position? Those two would be beasts on the perimeter for Houston.

Yeah, i think, they wuld be perfect complements next to Yao...and If Brooks can keep it up, they can either have a penetration game or an inside-out game with two of the best roleplayers in terms of shoot+defend at the wings.

I don't see a problem with them next to each other...especially if they can get another creator for T-Mac (sounds stupid, coz T-Mac should be the perfect fit himself, but cant get it done)

btw.: of course I didnt trade for Vaught in NBA2K...at that time people hat do play NBA Live :)

[tp2021]

Spurs fans, alone, have any faith in him.


Because only Spurs fans know he still exists. That has more to do with being out with injury than a proposed lack of skill by you. Unless fans of other teams watched him in France, or with the Toros, how would they even know him, let alone have faith in him?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Time will tell.

I aspire to be completely wrong about Mahinmi but the tea leaves point otherwise. The French national team doesn't know he exits. No major Euro team wants him. No NBA team will trade for him. To the basketball world, he's Jackie Butler with an accent.

Spurs fans, alone, have any faith in him.

That said, hopefully he breaks out in the summer league and becomes the answer to the Spurs' search for an athletic big.

Your making quite a few assumptions. He is under contract with an NBA team and as such no European team is going to bother trying to try and make him renege on his contract.

You also do not know how much trade value he has. The Spurs FO is notorious for keeping any and all discussions about trades and the like on the down low. For all we know, several NBA teams have inquired about his availability. He was Presti's pet cat for example.

Also not being on the French national team does not equate to them having no interest in him. Its quite possible that him playing pretty much all year long in various leagues while he develops has something to do with him not being on the national team.

[timvp]

I don't understand why so many Spurs fans are obsessing with the idea that the Spurs need "length to contend with the Lakers". Sure, the Lakers are a tall team but it's mostly finesse size. Gasol, Odom and Bynum aren't power players.

In fact, those who watched the playoffs should realize that it was the midget Rockets who gave those bigs the most trouble. 6-foot-5 Chuck Hayes was probably the best defender in the playoffs against Gasol.

To beat the Lakers, I think you need bigs with strength and quickness. You can push around their bigs a bit if you have the right personnel. I think the Spurs realized this and that's why they've talked about toughness at power forward as their goal in acquisitions rather than just going after giant centers with size.

A key for matching up against the Lakers will be Blair. If he can improve his defense and learn to be a physical defender without fouling, he has the body type to do well against both Gasol and Bynum. McDyess should be good against Gasol and Bynum. Haislip has the skillset that makes me think he was brought in with Odom in mind.


News flash - Dahntay Jones to the Pacers, 11mil/4yrs.

Meh. I wouldn't match that if I were the Spurs. This time last year, Dahntay Jones was playing in summer league trying to keep his basketball career alive. He had a good season but his offense is highly limited.

On top of that, he was horrible at guarding Kobe in the playoffs. Kobe lit him up. He could easily shoot over Jones and also beat him to the basket. George Karl saw what was happening and rarely put Jones on Kobe in the second half of games. He'd even put AC on Kobe late in games before Jones.

Jones did fine work against CP3 but if the Spurs spend that kind of money on a perimeter defender, they have a pulse when it comes to defending Kobe.

[oligarchy]

I just don't see a move. Maybe there might be a possibility close to the trade deadline. The only thing that I see that makes any sense is Raja, and I can't think of someone else with a decent contract resembling his skills that would be available.

I believe they are going to let the roster show what it can do. If they believe with that roster there are holes, they'll make a push.

The big questions are really defense related to guys like: Blair and Haislip, and if he does join, Gist. Blair most so for defense down low and what Gist/Haislip might be able to do with Dirk, Odom, etc.

The biggest hole, to me, is at a real reserve PG. I just don't see Mason or Hill carrying anything but spot minutes and I hope Mason isn't. When Tony went down last season, I don't see it as a big problem this season, so maybe it isn't really an issue. So, maybe I am wrong about a reserve PG.

Let's see what sticks first.

[loveforthegame]

Shit I'll do Mason and Bonner for Bell.

Me too. I know people want to include Finley just to get rid of both of them. But where would Mason get minutes with Bell here? He can hit the open 3 just like Mason but brings way better defense.