Start Nazr Now

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Running alongside Duncan tonight, he's looking freakin' solid.

6 points, 5 boards, 3 blocks, a steal, and a Spursesque 0-2 from the FT line.

And according to some random NY Knick fans Whott quoted to death, he can't play D. :spin

[picnroll]

Nazr D is coming on fast. He's been outstanding on man on and help D tonight. Best interior defender against Gasol and Wright just gives up the ball with Nazr on him.

[picnroll]

That said Rasho should still start if he's healthy. Millionth time, it's the end of the game that matters.

[Rummpd]

All of you bandwagoners never saw this guy play as much as I did on the East Coast and where were you when I and a few others kept the faith on him? Hated to lose one of my favorites, Malik, but Nazr has his own considerable strengths.

Now I got that off chest, I still not sure he should start = so effective without Duncan he is probably best at that right now. Next year = let it be an open competition and don't forget that Rasho also > play before his latest injury. Whats wrong with 2 good to very good centers?

[ZStomp]

He did start!

[Rummpd]

I think we are talking playoffs and I think Nazr willl start first few and then probably Rasho back to start but with Pop you never know.

[whottt]

Hey Aggie...where were all these posts when Nazr sucked?


S'what I thought.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Rummpd, I've been on Nazr's bandwagon since the day of the trade, but everyone just said it was because I hated Malik, and didn't even give a damn about the very real logic I was using (outside of Rose sucks) to justify myself.

I am comfortable with either of Rasho or Nazr starting, but said the day of the trade and still maintain that Rasho's skill set is not complimentary to Tim's, while Nazr's is very much so.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hey whott,

Well let's see:

Part of the time he wasn't even playing.

Part of the time I was in the process of moving to Dallas for a new job and without internet access and then on the road for training.

Sue me.

[picnroll]

Yo tambien.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Hey Aggie...where were all these posts when Nazr sucked?


S'what I thought.
That's not the point Whottt, maybe you spoke a little too early wouldn't you say? I think Nazr is going to hold his own in this team! I think he should make the playoff roster.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Nazr with his fourth block of the night.

Hey Whott, where's all your "bulletin board Knick fans tell me sucks on defense" bullshit posts?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

8 points
6 boards
5 blocks
2 steals

[E20]

Whottt fails to see the fact that a lot of people liked Nazr and had high hopes for him when he first came on the team.

--On a side note Muhammad is playing like a monster
8 Points
8 Rebounds
5 Blocks
1 TO

Hate to say it Malik but, if Nazr is playing this well it's gonna be hard missing you.

[whottt]

Hey whott,

Well let's see:

Part of the time he wasn't even playing.

Yeah...that can effect your numbers[/Malik Rose]




Part of the time I was in the process of moving to Dallas for a new job and without internet access and then on the road for training.

Sue me.

Well he sucked...he sucked hard, and he sucked bad, and it wasn't just because he was new to the team.

[E20]

Whottt weren't your rooting for Nazr to succeed?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well whoopdefuckingdoo.

Rose sucked hard and sucked bad, and he wasn't NEW to the team.

Who gives a shit what was happening a few weeks ago? I guess a player is not allowed to be better in the post-season unless their name is Malik Rose (seeings that's when all the Rose lovers seem to think he became a different player).

You've got a great point whott - why give him the run when he's playing well now, when we should be keeping him on the bench because of his play two weeks ago.

Any more brilliant logic for us?

[whottt]

Nazr with his fourth block of the night.

Hey Whott, where's all your "bulletin board Knick fans tell me sucks on defense" bullshit posts?


Um in case you were moving to Dallas or have some other excuse handy...Memhet Okur just threw down 26-15 on his ass....and prior to this game teams have been shooting abouti 50% against us...

So regardless of whatever you think is defense, you certainly don't have enough room to be going out and dishing out crow.

The scouting report by the Knicks fans was dead on and it impressed me. He's been exactly like they said he would be in terms of strengths and weaknesses.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Yeah...that can effect your numbers[/Malik Rose]





Well he sucked...he sucked hard, and he sucked bad, and it wasn't just because he was new to the team.
How the hell do you know it wasn't because he was new to the team? you're just speculating, the point is in the past few games, he has proven you wrong.

[whottt]

I know you don't get 15 shots blocked back into your face because of newness to the team...I know you don't have boards bounce of your fingertips because you are new to the team. I know you don't have a J that looks like a wounded duck because you are new to the team.

And he hasn't proven me wrong...he hasn't proven anything yet.

Like I said earlier...you guys have zero credibility because you flat out refuse to acknowledge what Malik has done in the playoffs...you refuse to acknowledge that his decline in numbers came from reduced minutes rather than an actual decline in play.

Until you acknowledge things like...Malik throwing down 25 points off the bench in the playoffs against the Mavs, after we had gone down 0-1 on our own home court...There's just really not much point in arguing about it...anyone can just flat out refuse to acknowledge things...it doesn't make them right.

[whottt]

Whottt weren't your rooting for Nazr to succeed?


I was rooting for the Spurs to suceed in winning a title this season...and I think the trade made that more difficult...I still think that.

But things definitely look better than they did a few weeks ago...not just because of Nazr's improved play but also because of the signing of the Big Dog...

I knew Nazr was going to be a good garbage man...I was incredibly pissed when he wasn't even doing that well.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The scouting report by the Knicks fans was dead on and it impressed me. He's been exactly like they said he would be in terms of strengths and weaknesses.

:lol

They said he couldn't block shots, he's got what 11 in the last 4 games (and counting).

They said he has bad hands. Let's see, he's got 6 turnovers in 9 games in April. He's averaging 1.2 since he came to the Spurs. For comparison your boy Malik has 6 TOs in the last three games, and is averaging 1.8 per game since joining the Knicks.

They said his jumper needs work. Big deal. I can count the number of times he will be shooting jumpers each game on one hand. He gets his points off garbage offensive rebounds, he doesn't need to take 5-6 jumpers a game away from our guards like Malik liked to do.

Tell you what, you can have your little NY Knick poser boy internet posts, I'll take Nazr helping this team win a title.

[whottt]

:lol

They said he couldn't block shots, he's got what 11 in the last 4 games (and counting).


He said he couldn't block shots....You act like he's been doing this his whole career...even he said he wasn't a shot blocker...

On top of that..this is a small sample size..


They said he has bad hands. Let's see, he's got 6 turnovers in 9 games in April. He's averaging 1.2 since he came to the Spurs. For comparison your boy Malik has 6 TOs in the last three games, and is averaging 1.8 per game since joining the Knicks.

He does have bad hands...and the Knicks have been given Malik minutes at SF.


They said his jumper needs work. Big deal.

Yeah..and you said it didn't....even after you saw it...exactly who should be laughing at who?



I can count the number of times he will be shooting jumpers each game on one hand.

Good.



He gets his points off garbage offensive rebounds, he doesn't need to take 5-6 jumpers a game away from our guards like Malik liked to do.

Yeah I know he is a good garbage man and 100% of the Knicks fans said he would be...but what you overlook is that he wasn't even doing that well for most of his Spurs stint.





Tell you what, you can have your little NY Knick poser boy internet posts, I'll take Nazr helping this team win a title.


Tell you what...when they give you a trophy for having big games against lottery teams I'll be right there with you.

Until then...

Malik = Proven
Nazr = Unproven

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

ou guys have zero credibility because you flat out refuse to acknowledge what Malik has done in the playoffs...you refuse to acknowledge that his decline in numbers came from reduced minutes rather than an actual decline in play.

Until you acknowledge things like...Malik throwing down 25 points off the bench in the playoffs against the Mavs, after we had gone down 0-1 on our own home court...

Here's your problem: you're living in the past. What does Malik's 25 point game against the Mavs have to do with us winning a title this year or in the future (even when he was on roster)? Not a fucking thing.

Malik's decrease in numbers came about because he felt he had to shoot the ball on offense every time he got it. They decreased because he stopped being the garbage man and started trying to play ball like a franchise player. And because of that play, you're right - his minutes went down the shitter.

But it wasn't because Pop woke up one day and said to himself, "self, I don't feel like playing Malik anymore, screw it." It's because Malik's play didn't justify the playing time or the money we were paying him.

Malik definitely had his moments that helped us win two rings, but this isn't '99 or '03. There's no Drob around to cover for Rose's height issues. And in case you hadn't noticed, it's 2005. When I want to reminisce about the title runs, I'll be happy to shoot the shit with you about Malik holding it down against Shaq or dropping 25 on the Mavs.

I care about rings this year, and rings in future years, neither of which did Malik have a future in with his post-big contract signing, post-restaurant business, post-moving the family to SA, post-gonna argue with the coach, and post-DRob era play (or more appropriately, lack thereof).

Get over it, Rose isn't coming back, and no amount of hating on Nazr is gonna change that (or bring more legitimacy to your "some drunken NY fan on a bulletin board somewhere told me he sucks" posts).

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Tell you what Whott, we gave Malik 7 years, why don't you give Nazr more than 7 weeks?

And if all you give a shit about is the playoffs as far as proving one's self goes, why are you bitching about some games back in March and early April, instead of waiting to see what he brings in the post-season?

[whottt]

Tell you what Whott, we gave Malik 7 years, why don't you give Nazr more than 7 weeks?


Malik did his job...and never truly stopped doing it...we made a switch for financial reasons and hindered our chances of winning a title...that's my reason for being impatient with his progess.

I have nothing against Nazr the person and never have, my problem is with the Spurs for making that trade...Nazr has always seemed to be classy and he also seems fearless, and I never been critical of his person...but that doesn't take the Spurs off the hook.

At the minimum this trade probably cost us HCA and the 1 seed, and therefore our road to a title is more difficult...I don't see how anyone that is intellectually honest can argue with that point(assuming we don't just totally luck our way back into it).

And before you start on this...I can find quotes by Pop himself saying this trade was for financial reasons and that Malik's contract was the reason he was traded.

[whottt]

Besides...if you haven't noticed, I have been giving Nazr his props for a few days now...like the since the Clipper game...and he only played 8 minutes in that game.

You called me out and are acting like he is Chambarlain again...you are getting blinded by all those Offensive rebounds...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The only financial reasons were Malik wasn't justifying his pay. Hell, he wasn't justifying the league minimum with the way he was playing.

The only thing that cost us the 1 seed is the injury of Tim and Manu at the same time.
I don't see how anyone that is intellectually honest can even begin to ignore their injuries and insist (with a straight face) that we're gonna lose out on the 1 seed because of the loss of Malik :lol

I read Pop's quotes, and like I said - Malik wasn't even justifying Sean Marks money with his play, let alone midlevel exemption money.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Where am I saying anything about Wilt?

Part of the problem with you Rose lovers is your fucking irrational arguments. I'm not saying anything about Kareem or Wilt or any other HOFer.

I am saying that Nazr is playing some great ball, and can do things thanks to his size Malik couldn't even think about doing with out a trampoline or a step ladder when it comes to playing basketball in this league.

Get over it, the trade has been over with for a good six weeks now.

Oh, and as for your whining about winning a title this year: Malik wasn't going to do anything to help that unless you count him waving a towel sitting at the end of the bench, because that's all he would have been doing this summer.

[whottt]

Forget about if Malik was earning his pay...that's not the issue...the issue is if he could do that job better than Nazr...and that he has filled in admirably for Duncan and Robinson in the past and he knew the team better than anyone...on top of that, he's got a better J, he is a better defender and he more determined...

He's also a proven and experienced playoff perfomer...

You still refuse to acknowledge the job Malik did, even last season, filling in for Duncan...how can you do that?

Nazr sucked for most of Duncan's injury...

I realize he has a good excuse for sucking...but I didn't want a good excuse for sucking...I wanted HCA and the 1 seed...

[whottt]

Where am I saying anything about Wilt?

Part of the problem with you Rose lovers is your fucking irrational arguments. I'm not saying anything about Kareem or Wilt or any other HOFer.

I am saying that Nazr is playing some great ball, and can do things thanks to his size Malik couldn't even think about doing with out a trampoline or a step ladder when it comes to playing basketball in this league.

Bigger isn't always better.




Get over it, the trade has been over with for a good six weeks now.

Um...who called who out?


Oh, and as for your whining about winning a title this year: Malik wasn't going to do anything to help that unless you count him waving a towel sitting at the end of the bench, because that's all he would have been doing this summer.

He wasn't in the doghouse this year...and he had some good games for us, off the bench, before he was traded.

[spursfan05]

fuck rasho nazr is a double double machine and just plain better than him!!

[spurster]

:yawn

Nazr sucked on the Spurs at first, but now the trade is looking good for the Spurs.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You still refuse to acknowledge the job Malik did, even last season, filling in for Duncan...how can you do that?

Again, I don't GAF about the past. The past does nothing to help us win another ring, unless the DRob of '99 suddenly shows up healthy and ready to go tomorrow.


When I want to reminisce about the title runs, I'll be happy to shoot the shit with you about Malik holding it down against Shaq or dropping 25 on the Mavs.

So what did Malik filling in for Tim get us last year in the way of a title? I mean that seems to be your absolute gauge on all this, Malik has rings, Nazr doesn't, so Malik obviously > Nazr.

Malik did such a great job filling in for Tim we ended up getting killed by LA last year. Big deal (using your absolutist logic).

You seem to be incapable of grasping the present or future in this league. We are in the transition where length, power, and athleticism inside are becoming a more common sight - even the SFs are starting to show up in the 6'10"-6'11" size range these days, and in a league where that's becoming more and more common, a 6'4" backup post player is going to be even more of a liability (especially on defense).

I for one, as critical as I am of Pop, appreciate him for recognizing that liability and acting to head it off. Maybe you should to the same instead of getting your Malik Rose underoos in such a pinch.

[whottt]

I'll eat crow when Nazr does something like this, off the bench, in the playoffs, when we are down 0-1 on our own home court, in the Conference finals:

http://www.nba.com/games/20030521/DALSAS/boxscore.html




Spurs
REBOUNDS
PLAYER POS MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS
TONY PARKER G 34 6-11 0-0 7-8 0 4 4 4 3 1 3 0 19
STEPHEN JACKSON G 34 7-14 1-4 2-2 0 5 5 5 3 2 1 0 17
TIM DUNCAN F 40 11-21 0-0 10-13 5 10 15 5 4 0 1 3 32
BRUCE BOWEN F 34 2-7 2-4 0-0 0 3 3 2 2 0 2 0 6
DAVID ROBINSON C 20 2-5 0-0 3-4 2 5 7 2 1 1 1 1 7
Emanuel Ginobili 28 3-6 1-2 0-0 1 2 3 2 2 2 2 1 7
Malik Rose 27 5-11 0-0 15-18 2 4 6 2 5 1 2 1 25
Speedy Claxton 14 3-4 0-0 0-0 0 5 5 2 1 0 0 0 6
Danny Ferry 8 0-1 0-1 0-0 0 3 3 0 1 0 2 0 0
Kevin Willis 1 0-1 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Steve Kerr DNP
Steve Smith DNP
TOTAL 240 39-81 4-11 37-45 10 41 51 24 22 7 14 6 119
48.1% 36.4% 82.2% Team Rebs: 8 Total TO: 14

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

On second thought you're right whott. Will Perdue kicked ass playing D against Shaq in that first title run, maybe we can get him out of retirement in time for the playoffs.

:drunk

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hey, Jaren Jackson once had 6 threes in a playoff game against the Lakers, he'd obviously make a great addition to this team in the playoffs this year and for years to come.

[/whott logic]

[ChumpDumper]

Nazr did his best job of post defense as a Spur tonight. Props for his work on Gasol.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

And Gasol used to be one of those matchups that gave this team fits (even with Rose).

[whottt]

Again, I don't GAF about the past. The past does nothing to help us win another ring, unless the DRob of '99 suddenly shows up healthy and ready to go tomorrow.

You need to look at what Malik was doing the week he was traded...off the bench.




So what did Malik filling in for Tim get us last year in the way of a title? I mean that seems to be your absolute gauge on all this, Malik has rings, Nazr doesn't, so Malik obviously > Nazr.

Malik is the one guy on the team you cannot blame for our failure to win a title last year. He wasn't let off the bench against the Lakers...inspite of having some of the best games of his career last season.


Malik did such a great job filling in for Tim we ended up getting killed by LA last year. Big deal (using your absolutist logic).

It's not Malik's fault Pop can be a prick...ask Brent Barry.


You seem to be incapable of grasping the present or future in this league. We are in the transition where length, power, and athleticism inside are becoming a more common sight - even the SFs are starting to show up in the 6'10"-6'11" size range these days, and in a league where that's becoming more and more common, a 6'4" backup post player is going to be even more of a liability (especially on defense).

So why didn't Shawn Marks ever beat Malik out?




I for one, as critical as I am of Pop, appreciate him for recognizing that liability and acting to head it off. Maybe you should to the same instead of getting your Malik Rose underoos in such a pinch.

LMAO you called me out...I haven't been bashing Nazr lately and as long as he continues to do his garbage work well and stay out of the way on offense I will probably be pretty muted about him. Like I said...the Glen Robinson signing helped offset that trade too.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Seriously.

If the only thing that's going to change your mind is the playoffs, why don't you quit bitching until after they are over?

[whottt]

Hey, Jaren Jackson once had 6 threes in a playoff game against the Lakers, he'd obviously make a great addition to this team in the playoffs this year and for years to come.

[/whott logic]


This is what Malik did, this season, off the bench, the week and a half before he was traded...

2/3: 19 points, 11 boards VS the Lakers
2/9: 19 points, 7 boards VS the Wizards
2/16: 12 points, 15 boards VS the Hornets


Who is the one who isn't in the present?

You are stuck in last season, but only the parts you want to be stuck in...and that's the only season you can use to even make a remotely strong argument in favor of this trade helping us win a title this year...and even that's more due to lack of PT than an actual decline in Malik's play.

[whottt]

Seriously.

If the only thing that's going to change your mind is the playoffs, why don't you quit bitching until after they are over?

LMAO! You called me out!

[whottt]

Just remember, Nazr hasn't proven he can do anything off the bench other than suck ass....and he has virtually no post season experience.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So because Malik had three good games in a row, that somehow trumps the rest of the season and last?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

he has virtually no post season experience.

Neither did Buckets. Neither did the Golden Child Rose when he first got here. Neither did Manu when he helped lead us to the '03 title.

Pop apparently should have sat their asses too, right?

Just remember, unless Nazr averages a triple double he'll never be good enough for the Rose Colored Glasses crowd.

[ducks]

I am not sure if Nazr has proved enough to start over Rasho yet
but I know if RASHO plays like a idiot pop could start Nazr over him in the second half and get good results now

[picnroll]

Malik didn't play a single game this year as well as a defender, particularly as an interior defender, as Nazr did tonight. That's why Nazr is a better fit if he can keep bringing that D. Malik can't bring the D like Nazr can. If you can't see that Whott you're blind.

[whottt]

So because Malik had three good games in a row, that somehow trumps the rest of the season and last?

Coming from the guy talking endless shit after Nazr has 3 good games...

Ahh the fucking irony.

[whottt]

Neither did Buckets.

We didn't have a choice.


Neither did the Golden Child Rose when he first got here. Neither did Manu when he helped lead us to the '03 title.

Didn't have a choice and didn't have choice...Smitty had proven he sucked.


Pop apparently should have sat their asses too, right?

What?


Just remember, unless Nazr averages a triple double he'll never be good enough for the Rose Colored Glasses crowd.

Link?

[whottt]

Malik didn't play a single game this year as well as a defender, particularly as an interior defender, as Nazr did tonight.

What do you mean, in terms of blocking shots? Basically this is an unprovable point.


That's why Nazr is a better fit if he can keep bringing that D. Malik can't bring the D like Nazr can. If you can't see that Whott you're blind.

:jack


All I want from Nazr right now is just to keep doing his garbage work at the level he has been doing it at recently...I expect that...because being on a new team doesn't give him an excuse to suck at that.

[picnroll]

No. In terms of shutting down bigs, from Gasol to Wright. Holding positon. Getting rebounds to complete the defense. Holding off players so others could get the rebound. Blocking shots and altering shots. Weak side shot challenging. Not committing ba on defense. Rotating for timely help defense and then getting back to his man. This was a 2002 David Robinsonesque defensive effort.


All I want from Nazr right now is just to keep doing his garbage work at the level he has been doing it at recently Sounds like what a lot of people kept saying about Malik which Malik often stopped doing.

[whottt]

This was a 2002 David Robinsonesque defensive effort.


Malik was more effective than DRob at times during the playoff run to our last title.

Drob really wasn't much of a factor against the Mavs...and the Suns series was 50-50.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Gasol used to tear us apart. Nazr made him take bad shot after bad shot tonight. If it's that hard for you to grasp, maybe we shouldn't even be having this conversation.


Coming from the guy talking endless shit after Nazr has 3 good games...

Where is the endless shit? Looks to me like we're talking the benefits of Nazr vs. Rose.

All I said originally was Nazr is playing great, which you can't argue, and that Nazr can do things that Rose could never hope to do for this squad unless he got to play on stilts or a step ladder.

You're the one taking every positive comment about Nazr and parlaying it into Nazr > Wilt and all the other stupid ass straw man argument bullshit you're trying to use to prove you're right (and failing miserably at).

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Drob really wasn't much of a factor against the Mavs

Good lord, neither was Rose. It took Tim Duncan asking Pop to pull his head out and play Kerr. Rose was lit up every bit as bad as Drob in that series.

[whottt]

Gasol used to tear us apart. Nazr made him take bad shot after bad shot tonight. If it's that hard for you to grasp, maybe we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

1 game...where have I said Nazr sucked tonight?

He also made Mehmet Okur look like Shaq the other night.




Where is the endless shit? Looks to me like we're talking the benefits of Nazr vs. Rose.

All I said originally was Nazr is playing great, which you can't argue, and that Nazr can do things that Rose could never hope to do for this squad unless he got to play on stilts or a step ladder.

You simply refuse to acknowledge Malik had good games for us...this season, last season, the last time we won a title.





You're the one taking every positive comment about Nazr and parlaying it into Nazr > Wilt and all the other stupid ass straw man argument bullshit you're trying to use to prove you're right (and failing miserably at).

LMAO...you were saying Nazr is a good passer, has a good J and hands...No strawman to it.

And now you are taking one good defensive performance and acting like he has been playing that way for a few games now...he hasn't been...he's been improved(as is in not awful) since the Clips game and I have been giving him credit for improvement, but tonight was his first truly good defensive game as a Spur...Period.

And because of it you want to start him over Rasho.

You also act like he's been playing this well off the bench.

I could just do what you do...and not acknowledge valid points or ignore a players good games....

[whottt]

Good lord, neither was Rose. It took Tim Duncan asking Pop to pull his head out and play Kerr. Rose was lit up every bit as bad as Drob in that series.

Selective memory...Malik was awesome in that series...he was awesome....even in the games where he didn't score big...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

All I want from Nazr right now is just to keep doing his garbage work at the level he has been doing it at recently

If Rose continued to do that, I wouldn't have had a problem with him.

Nazr has had 3 or more blocks in three of his last four games, when did Rose ever even sniff three blocks in a game?


You simply refuse to acknowledge Malik had good games for us...this season, last season, the last time we won a title.

I've said it twice in this thread that he played some good ball for us in the past, you simply refuse to acknowledge anything other (apparently) than me promising to name my first born after him.

I don't have any selective memory about the Dallas series. It took Kerr's hot outside shooting to bail us out.

Some of you treat some hustle play by Rose like he was Wilt in his prime or something.

Rose's play has done nothing but regress since 2003, there's a lot of reasons for that but people want to blame it all on Pop *shrugs*

Nazr's had 4 really good if not great games in a row, and you sit here and say that's not good enough for you. But it is good enough for you to hold up as proof that Malik was playing great ball this year.

But like everything else for the Rose dick suckers on this site, Nazr will never be good enough unless he's averaging a triple double in points, blocks, and boards, and consistently hitting his jumper from 20 feet out.

[whottt]

I don't have any selective memory about the Dallas series. It took Kerr's hot outside shooting to bail us out.

In one game...in another Malik stepped up huge.


Some of you treat some hustle play by Rose like he was Wilt in his prime or something.

Rose's play has done nothing but regress since 2003, there's a lot of reasons for that but people want to blame it all on Pop *shrugs*


Robert Horry is the reason, when Pop has options he has a quick hook...what hypocracy coming from a guy with "let him play" under a picture of Brent Barry in his sig.


Nazr's had 4 really good if not great games in a row, and you sit here and say that's not good enough for you. But it is good enough for you to hold up as proof that Malik was playing great ball this year.

Show me where I said it wasn't good enough for me lmao...you called me out.

And you got a string of good games as a starter to back up your points about Nazr...I got a string of them from this year, last year, and the last time we won a title to back up my points.




But like everything else for the Rose dick suckers on this site, Nazr will never be good enough unless he's averaging a triple double in points, blocks, and boards, and consistently hitting his jumper from 20 feet out.

How about if he can just outplay Shawn Marks on a consistent basis? I think Malik was able to do that even by your hating standards...so is that too much to ask?

I don't think you realize how badly Nazr sucked prior to his recent surge...you insult Malik's entire family tree by saying he ever played as poorly as Nazr was playing the past few weeks...Yes he had an excuse...but as I said earlier...I don't want an excuse for sucking or justification for a gambling trade, because that doesn't win games and it doesn't win titles.

[Mr. Body]

Now I understand why whoottt has so many posts. Does anybody read this stuff?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

you insult Malik's entire family tree by saying he ever played as poorly as Nazr was playing the past few weeks.

LOL, now I know you've lost it. Rose had some downright shitty stretches of basketball himself, but the RCG folks gloss those over.


Yes he had an excuse.

So what's the excuse for Rose throwing passes into the fifth row?

[T Park]

What was his excuse for yanking his jersey over his head.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What was his excuse for yanking his jersey over his head.

It's a new kind of hustle play.

[T Park]

ahhh.


Didnt get to see the game tonight but.

8 8 and 5 BLOCKS?????


holy cow.


Guess Nazr CAN play well next to Duncan.


Start Nazr, let Rasho come off the bench.

It will work out PERFECTLY!!!!

Rasho will play better without Duncan in there, Nazr will play better with DUncan IN there.

Absolutely perfect.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol

I figured for anyone with a brain they'd see he started tonight. This thread wasn't about tonight, it was about the rest of the season, the playoffs, the Finals, next year, the rest of Duncan's prime, etc.

[whottt]

What was his excuse for yanking his jersey over his head.


If anything exemplifies the asshole qualities of the Malik haters I'd say this does it....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Asshole qualities? You're the one whining about Nazr being on a new team, with new teammates, new coaches, new system, new playbook, etc., yet insisting Malik should get a free pass because he busted his ass in '99.

[whottt]

Yeah I am complaining about trading a proven veteran for an inexperience one, for financial reasons, in the middle of the best run in team history...

Fuck yeah that pissed me off.

Even still...I haven't ripped Nazr since the Clippers game...you called me out.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Your proven veteran was sitting on the fucking pine behind 85 year old Tony Massenberg and 72 year old Robert Horry.

He was a black Jack Hailey for this team this year, get over it.

[timvp]

Major props to Nazr for his defensive work against the Grizzlies. If he can play defense like that, the Spurs will be able to use him for extended minutes in the playoffs.

[whottt]

Your proven veteran was sitting on the fucking pine behind 85 year old Tony Massenberg and 72 year old Robert Horry.

He got beat out by Horry...Horry's good.


He was a black Jack Hailey for this team this year, get over it.


LMAO ahh the hypochrisy:


And according to some random NY Knick fans Whott quoted to death, he can't play D. :spin

Who was dwelling on the past?

Don't run get over it smack when you are the one bringing up past issues and arguments...if you bring them up I am gonna argue about them.

And 4 games as a starter doesn't prove shit...

Hedo had 4 good games as a starter too...

No matter you may want to believe...Nazr hasn't been admitted to the HOF yet...and we don't have a trophy yet.

1 good defensive game does not mean he is a good defensive player.

Basically he's done what he was supposed to do with regards to o boards and has had 1 good game on D...he hasn't been good off the bench yet and you can't say that he will be...yet.

[pjjrfan]

The thing I always liked about Malik was and is his toughness. He is a guy whose tenacity helped this team win 2 titles. I have had a big problem with Nazr and I admit that he has had a great run this last four games, but that may come and go, what has made me change my mind about Nazr is his toughness. Starting with the Mav's loss he came in the second half and just started to push people around, and kicking ass, and he has contined to do this while settling into his role and not trying to do more than what is asked of him. When he flipped Prysbilla like a rag doll I realy started liking him more. This team doesn't need another scorer so much as a guy who will come out and fight, the way Malik did. Rasho has a tendency to wilt against physical play, but Nazr seems to thrive on it, and as a Spurs fan I gotta like that.

I still think Nazr has no balance on his shots, which makes even an easy jumper look hard for him, but he is excellent at put backs, and dunks when he is open unlike Rasho who has to gather himself before making his move and thus allows defenders to close the gap and make it hard for him to score. And I guess he has another Malik trait, butterfingers. But I forgave Malik for that as long as he brought that toughness and physical play, so I can do the same for Nazr, I just wish he would work on his footwork, like that nifty move he made to go between two Grizz for an easy layup.

But I still don't think he should start over Rasho, Rasho's knowledge of our schemes and his familiarity with the starters doesn't make it a feasible move IMO.

[Mark in Austin]

Hey whottt, wasn't one of you cornerstone arguements the post-trade records of the two teams? Whenever somebody brought up injuries to thr Spurs lineup, you responded with "I don't care, look at the records." Have you looked at the records lately post trade? This was one of your major points about why the trade sucked.

Knicks record post-trade: 11-14
Spurs Record post-trade: 17-9

No excuses. Scoreboard was the only thing that mattered according to you.

[T Park]

What was his excuse for yanking his jersey over his head.





If anything exemplifies the asshole qualities of the Malik haters I'd say this does it....

it makes me an asshole for asking a question??

Cause I brought up the boneheaded of bonehead plays?


Your are in serious Malik Roseitis delusion.

Nice Post MIA.


WHott will throw out, well well well well, WE STILL LOST GAMES EARLY!!!!

[whottt]

Hey whottt, wasn't one of you cornerstone arguements the post-trade records of the two teams? Whenever somebody brought up injuries to thr Spurs lineup, you responded with "I don't care, look at the records." Have you looked at the records lately post trade? This was one of your major points about why the trade sucked.

Knicks record post-trade: 11-14
Spurs Record post-trade: 17-9

Right. And I've also been saying the trade didn't hurt the team as badly as I feared due to the improved play of Nazr recently.

Matter of fact, prior to being called out in this thread by those who flatly refuse to admit how badly Nazr sucked up until a week ago...by those that don't seem to realize that he was behind Marks not too long ago...I hadn't bashed Nazr or the trade since the Clipper game...

In fact I had been giving Nazr props for his improved play at the same time giving the Spurs credit for signing Glenn Robinson, and saying those two things decreased the negative impact of the trade...

Those acting like I had done nothing but non-stop bitch are still suffering from the same observational defficiencies that lead them to conclude this trade had no negative impacts in the first place .








No excuses. Scoreboard was the only thing that mattered according to you.

Yeah...and that's why I haven't been doing any bashing since the Clipper game..until getting called out by those that are acting like Nazr has torn it up the entire time here...

[T Park]

Those acting like I had done nothing but non-stop bitch

YOU HAVE done nothing but non stop bitch, wtf are you talking about.




Side note.


Guess all the jackasses that said "Mohammed is NOT better than Sean Marks"

Last night's game spoke volumes.

Mohammed kickin ass, takin names, playing well, and Marks, doing what hes done his WHOLE CAREER.

Sittin on the fuckin pine.

[whottt]

YOU HAVE done nothing but non stop bitch, wtf are you talking about.

That's simply not true.

I want you to find a post by me bitching about Nazr, that was made prior to this AHF calling me out...since the Clipper game. If you are gonna make that accusation back it up.

But we both know you can't and you won't...instead you'll just talk unsubstantiated shit.





Side note.


Guess all the jackasses that said "Mohammed is NOT better than Sean Marks"

Last night's game spoke volumes.

Yeah and it's amazing how quickly you guys forgot about all the excuses you made for him...injured, new to the team, and now when I use the same reasons for why the trade did impact our W-L record...you guys say those things were a non factor.




Mohammed kickin ass, takin names, playing well, and Marks, doing what hes done his WHOLE CAREER.

Sittin on the fuckin pine.

Marks was playing better...alot better. Take it up with Pop...Pop was the one that had moved Marks ahead of Nazr in the rotatation...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Matter of fact, prior to being called out in this thread by those who flatly refuse to admit how badly Nazr sucked up until a week ago.

LOL, who gives a shit about a couple of weeks ago. Yeah he was playing bad. We should bench his ass I guess, because we all know we should go off his play 3 weeks ago, and not how he's playing right now headed into the playoffs.

Maybe one day, should Nazr manage to average a triple double, he'll be good enough for the Rose for the Hall of Fame crowd.

[whottt]

Here's how full of shit you guys are...This is me after the Double OT Clippers win...



In response to the original post...

I actually thought Nazr played well when he was in the game tonight...he did blow a dunk but his D actually looked pretty good to me.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13345&page=3&pp=26


That was a game where he only played 8 minutes in a double OT ..and I saw the change in him in that brief time...

Meanwhile...AHF's total backing of Mohammed in that thread was arguing he should be on the playoff roster because he's got 6 good fouls to give.

And now you call me out and when I correctly point out how that trade hurt us you say I am the one who won't drop it.

Don't make me laugh...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

How did the trade hurt us?

Go ahead and hang on to your gay little "wins in late March matter" nonsense, I'll take a better post presence for this team in the playoffs, a more complimentary player to Tim than Rose was, and our starting center for the rest of Tim Duncan's prime, none of which you could say about Rose.

The six fouls thing was tongue in cheek, but I guess that gets lost on people who are losing arguments while clinging to how a player was playing 3 weeks ago as justification for why trading away Mr. DNP-CD for him was a bad idea.

[whottt]

How did the trade hurt us?

Go ahead and hang on to your gay little "wins in late March matter" nonsense,

It does matter when your goal is the best record in the NBA and HCA throughout the playoffs...which is part of the goal of every team that considers itself a title contender.

In case you haven't noticed...we haven't been a very good road team this year...even with Duncan healthy...probably the poorest road team of the Pop era...I'm not going to poohpooh HCA given that fact.



I'll take a better post presence for this team in the playoffs, a more complimentary player to Tim than Rose was, and our starting center for the rest of Tim Duncan's prime, none of which you could say about Rose.

Nazr's improved play has a chance to offset the damage done by that trade...As does the fact that he is supposed to play very well against Shaq(it was those "stupid" Knicks fans that told me that)...As does the signing of Robinson.

But Malik was a good compliment to Tim Duncan...he was the one big guy that could put up bigt numbers playing next to Duncan...and you don't have a leg to stand when arguing against that. He could also put up big numbers off the bench...

Nazr hasn't done that yet...so what you have here could be a situation very similar to Hedo from last year...who knows, Nazr might have turned the corner and he might be effective off the bench now...but he wasn't...he hasn'
t been yet...he hasn't ever been in his career up to this point...

And his D is not good enough to replace Rasho in the starting lineup.







The six fouls thing was tongue in cheek, but I guess that gets lost on people who are losing arguments while clinging to how a player was playing 3 weeks ago as justification for why trading away Mr. DNP-CD for him was a bad idea.

I wasn't losing the argument when I made those comments..I was fucking owning it...I didn't have to make those comments, the fact that Nazr got 8 minutes in a double OT game with no Duncan and Rasho getting injured pretty much shows how bad I was owning that argument...

I didn't have to make any positive comments about Nazr...but I saw a change from the way he been playing in those 8 minutes....and that's why I made them.

The fact is that Nazr sucked assssssssssssssssssssssssssssss up until a week ago, way more than Malik ever did on his worst day, and your refusal to admits that hurts your credibility...as for me...when he stopped sucking, and the team improved it's play, I stopped ripping the trade...Pay attention.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Whatever Whott.

What it boils down to is until Nazr starts averaging a triple double he will never be good enough for the Rose Dick Lovers of America.

[whottt]

Chithead...did you or did you not just see that quote of me giving Nazr unsolicited props?

It's not even Nazr that I was pissed at...I never said the dude was a bad guy, in fact from the get go I said I think he's a fearless player...and that was just listening from listening to his interviews...

The difference between you and I is that you hated Malik because wasn't Robinson or Duncan...I don't hate Nazr...I just think that trade was a stupid one to make when you are tyring to win a title.

Bu the fact is that Duncan got injured, and Nazr sucked ass, and was injured and couldn't even take the floor at times, and that hurt us...Maybe Nazr's improvment will make it a moot point...and when it does I will be the first to admit it...but we aren't at that point yet.

We aren't at that point yet. Nazr still has something to prove...unlike Malik.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Your props have been conditional "for the time being", "at least for the moment", etc. etc.

I hated Malik because of his play on the court. He was a great guy, but his play sucked.

He wasn't doing the little things that got him the contract (you know, hustling, getting garbage buckets, etc.).

He wasn't working in the flow of the offense. The motion stopped when Rose got the ball. He had this complex on offense where he thought he had the jumper of Kerr and the low post game of Duncan, when in reality he had neither.

I got tired of watching taller big men just shoot over him, and watching the same big men just snatch rebounds from above his head because he was too fucking short.

Now, if he was still hustling, getting Orebounds, and diving for loose balls like he used to, I would have overlooked all that.

But he wasn't, and when Pop sat his ass, he got grumpy. So yeah that pissed me off. I'm sorry you can't comprehend any of that.


We aren't at that point yet. Nazr still has something to prove...unlike Malik.

Like I said, Jaren Jackson proved he had huevos in the playoffs a few years back, let's bring him back, bring Rose back, and bring Perdue back to deal with Shaq, and we're set.[/whott logic]

[whottt]

Jaren Jackson over Steve Smith in 02? You damn right.

Dunno why you bring up Perdue...

Malik over Nazr? Let's see what happens.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I bring up Jaren and Will because back in the day they played well in the playoffs, which seems to be your absolute criteria for Rose - he played good two years ago in the playoffs, so he'd be the man today.

So bring them back, can't hurt, right? I mean that is the logic you're using...

[whottt]

Except for the fact that Malik is still in the NBA and the other two aren't...

I know why you brought up Jaren Jackson and I would have taken him back at any point prior to our last title, over the sacless wonders we were trotting out there to choke...


I might still take him over Hedo.

But what can I say...guys like you enjoy brutal destructions like we got in 01...and guys like me don't.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I don't enjoy any of the destructions we've suffered, it's why I am critical of Pop's offensive schemes.

It's also why I lost faith in Malik. He stopped doing all the little thing we all used to know and love and appreciate (well, every once in a while he'd start hustling again for 2-3 games and then all the Rose lovers would be satiated for the next two months until it happened again).

[pjjrfan]

Malik and David were awesome in the Playoffs in 2000, until Rose tore up his knee, and he was also a great contirbutor in 2001 and 2002, putting in good mins and backing up Tim and David. People have such short memories about a guy who may not have been an all-star but who did his job and Malik like Tim and David has always been a slow starter, and he was a major reason for that theory that the spurs play better as the season wears on. You all talk like you just started following the Spurs 2 years ago when Malik wound up in Pop's imaginary dog house. I still remember Kerr's quote in game 6 against the Laker's when the spurs got eliminated, after Malik came in and in one min. got 5 offensive rebounds, " Malik played one min. and got 5 off. rebounds and now he's sitting on the bench, maybe he should have gotten 6."

As much as I love Pop I still think his stubborness in not playing Malik in the Laker series cost the team the series and I'll believe that till I die.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

pjjrfan,

You touched on one of my points regarding Rose's effectiveness - he's never been the same since '03 when he all of a sudden didn't have DRob around to clean up his mess defensively.

#50 leaving is one of the contributing factors, IMO, to Malik's regression the last year and a half, but some seem unable to grasp that without a seven foot tall defensive beast around to watch his back, a 6'4" guy suddenly becomes a very real defensive/rebounding liability in the Western Conference.

[pjjrfan]

well, that's a possibility, Drob covered up a lot of mistakes even for TD, and Rasho does the same thing, IMO, that's why I 'm not too keen on replacing him outright at this point, but arguing aside, if Nazr can maintain this level of play, and bring that toughness and hardnosed attitude, he is going to help the team, and in the end that's all I want from anyone on the team, to do their jobs and help get us that 3rd ring.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It's not that I don't like what Rasho's been doing for us, it's that I feel Nazr is a better complimentary player to Tim than Rasho, and Rasho (and our second unit) would be better off with him getting some run out there sans Duncan.

[Louae]

Chithead...did you or did you not just see that quote of me giving Nazr unsolicited props?

It's not even Nazr that I was pissed at...I never said the dude was a bad guy, in fact from the get go I said I think he's a fearless player...and that was just listening from listening to his interviews...

The difference between you and I is that you hated Malik because wasn't Robinson or Duncan...I don't hate Nazr...I just think that trade was a stupid one to make when you are tyring to win a title.

Bu the fact is that Duncan got injured, and Nazr sucked ass, and was injured and couldn't even take the floor at times, and that hurt us...Maybe Nazr's improvment will make it a moot point...and when it does I will be the first to admit it...but we aren't at that point yet.

We aren't at that point yet. Nazr still has something to prove...unlike Malik.

Just quit arguing with him. Logic escapes AHF. You're takes have been solid and his takes have been weak. He's trying to totally slam you for your unhappiness with the Nazr-Malik trade and it's been totally warranted. I totally agree with you. It's nice to see that Nazr has been playing well as of late, but I won't believe it until I see it in the games that really matter. So far, the Nazr-Malik trade hurt us in getting homecourt advantage throughout the playoffs.

[T Park]

would be better off with him getting some run out there sans Duncan.

getting some touches off the bench wouldn't hurt either

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Logic escapes AHF. You're takes have been solid and his takes have been weak.

:lol How anyone can lecture anybody about logic, and then in the next sentence say Malik being traded cost the Spurs home court (when their two All-Stars were out for several games), is beyond me.

There's a lot more people on this thread than just me chiming in against Whott, but I guess you RCG folks stick together.

[whottt]

And why can't you realize that Malik could have filled in better for Duncan at that point than fucking Nazr, who couldn't take the fucking court for some of those games either? Do I need to get some more boxscores for you from last season when he did just that?

We are gonna miss out on home court by 2 games...

You want to losses?

#1.The first game after the trade. Nazr didn't play that game, and Malik had been putting up double doubles off the bench for the previous week...

Everyone from Tony Parker to Pop himself has said that the trade was the main reason we lost that game.

#2.@ the Knicks...when Malik fucking punked Nazr...and not only that he was sitting there in the huddle telling everyone what plays we were going to run...you don't think that after 8 years on the team he knows our tendencies? And he punked Nazr in that game..and Malik was playing for a new team too.

And Manu himself has said Malik was the main reason we lost that game.

There's you two losses and if you make me I can go find the quotes from players to back that up...if Narz not even playing in one of the games and getting punked in the other, doesn't prove that for you.

There's HCA right there...

And contrary to your spin...Nazr has only contributed signifigantly towards winning like 2 of the 20 games he's played for us...The GS game and last nights game vs the Grizz.

[Louae]

:lol How anyone can lecture anybody about logic, and then in the next sentence say Malik being traded cost the Spurs home court (when their two All-Stars were out for several games), is beyond me.

There's a lot more people on this thread than just me chiming in against Whott, but I guess you RCG folks stick together.

I said it hurt our chances, not cost us homecourt advantage. there is a difference, you know. And yes, logic does escape you. Don't you think Malik would've been handy instead of an injuried Mohammad while our two all-stars were out? Please, tell me no. I double dog dare you.

You expect Whott to say that he was wrong for being upset about a trade that brought in an injured player late in the season for a player who was healthy and familiar with the system. Especially when that player was playing like a dog until a week ago. Damn, logic and AHF are not in the same room. you're not even in the same ballpark. Look, I hope Nazr can help us in the playoffs. I hope he continues to play like he has. I'm still not holding my breath. I've seen more of him play like a dog than play like he has to put my nerves at ease.

You're arguments have been weak and your takes have been weak. As far as I'm concerned Whott has been slamming you in this thread. You're living in your own little twilight zone if you think otherwise.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Who gives a shit about those two games?

The only way they even matter is if we go on to lose to Phoenix 4-3 at some point down the road in the playoffs.

This is like whining about the end of the world when it hasn't even come yet. If we get to Phoenix, and lose 4-3 with both teams holding court at home, then feel free to bitch.

Until then you come off as a whiny nag bitter about a trade that for all relative appearances made this team better for the playoffs and definitely for next year inside.

[whottt]

With all due respect Louae Louae...the smackdown I have been been laying on the Aggie for 4 pages pales in comparison to what you just did to him in that one post...Do try and leave a piece for me :D

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah you got me. If I'm living in a twilight zone on Nazr vs. Rose, at least I've got picnroll, Tpark, pretty much all the league GMs and coaches who have been asked about it, anyone with a brain, etc. with me.

Rough life...

[whottt]

Yeah you got me. If I'm living in a twilight zone on Nazr vs. Rose, at least I've got picnroll, Tpark, pretty much all the league GMs and coaches who have been asked about it, anyone with a brain, etc. with me.

Rough life...


Stupidity is common, intelligence is rare. :fro


What's the average shelf life for a GM? How successful are they? By my reckoning there have only been 6 sucessful GM's in the past 30 years or so.

Most of these guys that "agree" with you are the same ones that sign marginal stars to max deals...

But Fratello has your back at least...and he's won...........nothing, he defines retread almost as much as Del Harris does.

And one man's picnroll and Tpark is another man's clown who said Nazr had a J and...well just loose the hate or your gonna get owned.

[Louae]

Yeah you got me. If I'm living in a twilight zone on Nazr vs. Rose, at least I've got picnroll, Tpark, pretty much all the league GMs and coaches who have been asked about it, anyone with a brain, etc. with me.

Rough life...

When you're beating your chest and claiming victory regarding Mohammad after four decent games against three lottery teams and an eight seed finishing a four game road trip and 5 games in 7 nights. Then yes, you're living in the twilight zone. Especially when you're comparing that sampling with many of the performances Rose has provided in championship years against top notched competition in the past.

Again, I hope Nazr can help this team in the playoffs when the games matter and the opponents aren't playing for ping-pong balls or are tired as hell.

[Louae]

Who gives a shit about those two games?

These are the kind of weak ass takes that's killing your credibiilty. Instead of saying the equivalent of "whatever times a million", you should try to dish out a take that explains why you think those two games are worthless to Whott's argument. But no, all we get is :blah


The only way they even matter is if we go on to lose to Phoenix 4-3 at some point down the road in the playoffs.

This is like whining about the end of the world when it hasn't even come yet. If we get to Phoenix, and lose 4-3 with both teams holding court at home, then feel free to bitch.

No, that would be a worst case scenario and has no relevance to this argument. Whott's entire argument is that the trade unnecessarily jeopardized our chances of winning a title THIS YEAR. I definately can't agrue against that. And I'm sure we can both agree that it's better to have homecourt advantage than to not have it. So it would be safe to assume that Whott's argument appears logical.

There's no denying the Rose-Nazr trade hurt our chances of securing homecourt advantage throughout the playoffs. Denying that would be saying an injured and ineffective Nazr was better than the Malik Rose who was averaging 9.6 rebounds and 13 points a game in the five games before getting traded. I hope you can agree on this point. Otherwise, the twilight zone is in your future if not already in your present.


Until then you come off as a whiny nag bitter about a trade that for all relative appearances made this team better for the playoffs and definitely for next year inside.

There's nothing wrong with seeing reality and complaining about it. It's a whole lot better than sticking our heads in the ground like an ostrich and hoping four good performances against three lotto teams and an eight seed is evidence of what the playoffs hold for us from Nazr.

[ducks]

what a fourth quarter by nazr so far tonight

[T Park]

8 points 15 boards 2 blocks??

Oh yeah Louae.


The guy is horrible.



Bring back the steakman.

[Useruser666]

The debate in this thread has lost all meaning.

[Louae]

8 points 15 boards 2 blocks??

Oh yeah Louae.

The guy is horrible.

Bring back the steakman.

If Nazr was playing like this before, you never would've heard anything about the trade and we'd likely have homecourt advantage. But it's nice to see him playing better than before.

I hope he can keep it up for the playoffs. But Whott's argument still holds water.

[Louae]

The debate in this thread has lost all meaning.

The debate in this thread was stupid to begin with. AHF was trying to slam Whott for bitching about the trade. Whott was bitching about the trade b/c it unnecessarily jeopardized our chances to win a title this year by causing the spurs to lose homecourt advantage for financial reasons. That's still a valid argument b/c we have lost homecourt advantage. With Timmy going down, Malik Rose would've been an important cog in maintaining the ship instead of an ineffective and injured Mohammad who was unfamiliar with the system. Whether having Rose or not actually affected the spurs from losing homecourt advantage, we'll never know. But it certainly would've improved our chances. And that's the argument that Whott has maintained from the get go. Rose haters lose sight of that.

I certainly hope Mohammad can keep this up. I wasn't expecting that from him this year. Especially after seeing him suck donkey balls for the first month.

[whottt]

Louae Louae, what they aren't telling you is that Nazr blew his defensive assignment on the last play of last nights game...that one where Miller was left wide open...

Bring it up and they'll tell you that it's because he's still new to the team...

Tell them that doesn't change the fact that we lost because of it and they'll call you a whiner and turnaround and say his inexperience hasn't hurt us.

That's called audacity...

Somehow they think there is some mystical change that is going to happen once the post season begins and his inexperience will no longer be a factor...

And no matter what else he does, no matter how costly(like that foul in OT against GS that sent us into double OT), as long as he has 6 offensive rebounds and a nice dunk(to go with 5-14 shooting), he's going to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Malik.

That's called cluelessness.

[T Park]

So its Nazr's fault they lost the game last night???


Malik Rose never blew a defensive assignment either right.



Didn't know Nazr had to be perfect.

[MadDog73]

Question: What makes a Spurs fan a Spurs fan?

If you are a Malik fan, shouldn't you now root for the Knicks?

Once Malik was traded, for better or for worse, you have to either:

a. accept the change and continue being a Spurs fan, rooting on Nazr no matter how you hate him.

b. resist the change, and blame ANY failing on Pop or the rest of the Spurs on Mohammed and use this as an excuse to bail on the team if they lose this year.

Now, maybe I'm being unfair, but that just seems like crap to me. Yes, you have a right to criticize Pop's move. Duly noted.

But the Playoffs are starting, and at a certain point, you're either WITH us, or against us, right?

[whottt]

Question what makes a Spurs Fan a Spurs Fan?

Sucking Pop's nuts dry no matter what he does makes you a Pop sucker not a Spursfan...Because Pop isn't the fucking Spurs.

And more than likely it means you are bandwaggoner who climbed on after we won a title.

[ca®lo]

agree.

im with the spurs.

BELIEVE!

[whottt]

Question: What makes a Spurs fan a Spurs fan?

If you are a Malik fan, shouldn't you now root for the Knicks?

Once Malik was traded, for better or for worse, you have to either:

a. accept the change and continue being a Spurs fan, rooting on Nazr no matter how you hate him.

b. resist the change, and blame ANY failing on Pop or the rest of the Spurs on Mohammed and use this as an excuse to bail on the team if they lose this year.

Now, maybe I'm being unfair, but that just seems like crap to me. Yes, you have a right to criticize Pop's move. Duly noted.

But the Playoffs are starting, and at a certain point, you're either WITH us, or against us, right?



And BTW...I'm not the one having a vaginal discharge over facing the Nuggets.

[Ishta]

I too am WITH the SPURS..


BELIEVE

[T Park]

And more than likely it means you are bandwaggoner who climbed on after we won a title

been goin to games in the arena since 88 for christ sake.


So you STFU with your bullshit.

[Ishta]

I don't know if I am just being crazy or what, but I am not worried about playing the Nuggets. They have had a great record since the all star break and have been playing great ball. The Spurs are a better team.


The Spurs will prevail.

So it is written so it will be done........

Believe

[Useruser666]

You're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[T Park]

Welcome to Nazr Mohammed's life as a Spur now User.

[Ishta]

The arena was scary.... The few times i went we sat in the nosebleed, and I do mean nosebleed section.. So I have been a fan for a while myself :spin
I get very pissed off at fair weathered fans..:pctoss
Yes, i know this had nothing to do with anything....couldn't stop myself!!

[MadDog73]

And BTW...I'm not the one having a vaginal discharge over facing the Nuggets.

Are you talking to me?

Face it, Pop IS the current Spurs. He's the GM who built it, and he's the coach who keeps it running.

Without Pop, we are nowhere near two titles, I fucking guarantee it.

[whottt]

Are you talking to me?

Face it, Pop IS the current Spurs. He's the GM who built it, and he's the coach who keeps it running.

Without Pop, we are nowhere near two titles, I fucking guarantee it.

Pop the GM is a genius(I can say this inspite of my criticism of the Malik trade because Pop himself has admitted the trade was for financial reasons, not talent or to improve our title chances)

Pop the coach is another thing entirely...he's probably one of the greatest defensive minds ever...

But as an offensive coach? He is a fucking moron. He doesn't like or respect the offensive side of the game.

And his military background and tendencies in his coaching tend to break confidence moreso than build it...most of the guys we have that are confident had that confidence on their own...even Jack...

Yes he's great at building discipline, but his breakem down and buildem up approach to getting offensive guys to play D has yet to be effective in terms of winning a title...

And um.....Tim Duncan is the current Spurs and David Robinson was the previous Spurs...

Now I give Pop full credit for coaching the Spurs to the worst record in team history, to get Tim Duncan...

But without Tim Duncan Pop is probably long since gone from this team...............

You act like having Duncan and Robinson is an obstacle to winning a title.

[MadDog73]

But without Tim Duncan Pop is probably long since gone from this team...............

You act like having Duncan and Robinson is an obstacle to winning a title.

No. And I think with a healthy Tim and David we would have won more.

Are you saying Tim and David won their titles DESPITE Coach Pop?

If so, who would you have as Coach?

[whottt]

Hmmm coaches I'd rather have over Pop....

Phil Jackson is the only one that comes to mind that I can say for certain is a better coach than Pop...I think he's the greatest coach ever...even if he is an asshole.

[MadDog73]

Hmmm coaches I'd rather have over Pop....

Phil Jackson is the only one that comes to mind that I can say for certain is a better coach than Pop...I think he's the greatest coach ever...even if he is an asshole.

I will miss those classic matches between the Spurs and Lakers. Part of me wishes the Lakers didn't implode like they did, so we could have a chance of beating Phil Jackson again. (the other part of me is happy as Hell) :)

Phil is obviously a very good coach, but he either lost it in the end, or his player just didn't care anymore. Either way, he was beat in 2003 by Pop, and in 2004 by Brown.

Which in my mind sets the 2 best current coaches as Brown and Pop. I wonder how Brown would do with the current Spurs?

[flacoflee]

Now I give Pop full credit for coaching the Spurs to the worst record in team history, to get Tim Duncan...


Bob Hill deserves some credit for the the worst record in team history. The Spurs went an impessive 3-15 before pop fired his ass. Pop went 17-47.

[Spurminator]

You act like having Duncan and Robinson is an obstacle to winning a title.


Phil Jackson is the only one that comes to mind that I can say for certain is a better coach than Pop...I think he's the greatest coach ever

[whottt]

Explain the relevance Spurm...it goes over my head.

I think you are saying that I am giving Phil too much credit and that he had talent as well...

We swept LA in 98-99...

They added Phil Jackson and the next season and won 67 games and became NBA champions...

The scoreboard reads:
Phil Jackson - 9 rings, 3 without Pippen and Jordan, 6 without Kobe and Shaq
Shaq and Kobe - 3 rings, none without Phil Jackson
Pippen and Jordan - 6 rings, none without Phil Jackson

What is overlooked is that those titles all had other guys step up and hit championship swinging shots...

John Paxon
Steve Kerr
Brian Shaw
Robert Horry
Derek Fisher

And so on and so forth...Phil Jackson was the guy who made the correct call to give those guys the chance to hit those shots.

He's a great coach...his teams never lack confidence, ever.

Yes he's had talent...and yes he's done what you are supposed to do with talent...win titles, every year he's had that talent except for 3 years out of 12.

Del Harris couldn't do it...Neither could Doug Collins...

[MadDog73]

I can't speak for Spurm, but maybe he's pointing out a slight inconsistency in your argument. That is, you imply that Pop is not a great coach, but then you say he's second only to Phil.

That's a pretty high compliment, if I'm reading you correctly!

[whottt]

Show me where I said Pop wasn't a great coach?

Being critical does not mean I think he sucks...

I just don't think he's the embodiment of perfection and beyond questioning...

I know he's not when it comes to offense. I think I understand more about offense than he does. He's not good at it...

[MadDog73]

Well, I said you implied it, but these certainly don't make Pop sound great:


But as an offensive coach? He is a fucking moron. He doesn't like or respect the offensive side of the game.


Now I give Pop full credit for coaching the Spurs to the worst record in team history

Are you saying these are compliments?!? :lol

Ahh, never mind I guess I can see these as "criticisms."

Anyway, what the Hell are we arguing about? We both agree Pop is one of the best current coaches in the playoffs. Correct?

[whottt]

I also said this:


Pop the GM is a genius(I can say this inspite of my criticism of the Malik trade because Pop himself has admitted the trade was for financial reasons, not talent or to improve our title chances)


Pop the coach is another thing entirely...he's probably one of the greatest defensive minds ever...

But as an offensive coach? He is a fucking moron. He doesn't like or respect the offensive side of the game.


See I basically say one negative thing about him and that's what gets pounced on...




And he did coach the team to the worst record in history...I happen to think it was deliberate...if it wasn't then he sucked(and so does AJ)...pick your poison....

The thing is...if I say it happened because he sucked I get pounced...and if I say it was deliberate I get pounced on...

It's got to be one or the other...You can't have it both ways...and the refusal to acknowledge that....That's called Popsucking....he's not perfect, I think his strenghts and flaws are very obvious.

He traded Steve Kerr and it took media callouts and Tim Duncan to get him to put Kerr in the game the year we won the title.

[whottt]

Anyway, what the Hell are we arguing about? We both agree Pop is one of the best current coaches in the playoffs. Correct?

Evidently we don't...evidently a great number of us think George Karl is better...

A great number of us seem to think that in half a season Karl can forge a team with less talent, and a worse work ethic and attitude than the Spurs, into a team capable of beating the Spurs on the road.

And if does turn out to be true then most certainly Karl>>>>>>>>>>>>Pop...and those that fear Denver will be right.

[MadDog73]

Well, hold on. Even IF the Nuggets beat us (and I've never thought they really could), then it'll be more than just Pop's fault. It will also be because Tim is hurting, Manu is tired, Tony is playing crappy, or a dozen other events i can imagine.*

Now, Pop can't be held accountable for all that, can he?

In any case, I think Avery Johnson and D'Antoni are better coaches than Karl...


*Please don't mis-understand me. I'm not saying these things WILL happen. Just imagining "worse case" scenarios.

[whottt]

Well, hold on. Even IF the Nuggets beat us (and I've never thought they really could), then it'll be more than just Pop's fault. It will also be because Tim is hurting,

A hurting Duncan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Melo+Camby



Manu is tired,
Manu won't be tired when the playoffs begin.



Tony is playing crappy,

Karl had 15 guys that were playing crappy and got them all turned around...that won't be a good enough excuse.



or a dozen other events i can imagine.*

There's nothing wrong with us that isn't also wrong with the Nuggets...Carmelo also played international ball this summer.

We have the more talented and experienced team and we also have HCA.




Now, Pop can't be held accountable for all that, can he?

A coach's job is to instill confidence in his team and prepare them to play...

There is no way we lose this series(with no further injuries) if Pop does his job. No way.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pop's defensive coaching is brilliant. It's the offense I have a problem with.

If Pop could find his own Tex Winter to run the Spurs offense (I still hold out hope that we'll tap the Argentinian coaching staff for this) we'd probably win 6-7 titles straight.