Can we officially say Ian = bust?

[cheguevara]

Dude is gone for good IMO. won't crack the rotation ever. Might go to europe next year?

[WildcardManu]

Still young to be a bust.

[Mel_13]

The 28th pick, by definition, cannot be a bust.

[benefactor]

The 28th pick, by definition, cannot be a bust.
I'm trying to figure out why this is so hard for Spur fan to understand.

[cheguevara]

The 28th pick, by definition, cannot be a bust.

not a bust by conventional standard. But here in spurstalk for 2 years, he was projected to be starting center next to Duncan. So yeah, bust.

[Mel_13]

not a bust by conventional standard. But here in spurstalk for 2 years, he was projected to be starting center next to Duncan. So yeah, bust.

Ok, not an NBA bust, a SpursTalk bust. :lol

[TheProfessor]

not a bust by conventional standard. But here in spurstalk for 2 years, he was projected to be starting center next to Duncan. So yeah, bust.
So, a bust in the eyes of a bunch of unrealistic fanboys.

(To be fair, I was one of them.)

[EricB]

not a bust by conventional standard. But here in spurstalk for 2 years, he was projected to be starting center next to Duncan. So yeah, bust.

So yeah no.

[rjv]

he was always and still is an NBA project.

[cheguevara]

So, a bust in the eyes of a bunch of unrealistic fanboys.

(To be fair, I was one of them.)

not quite. knowledgeable posters too. Timvp, bruno, cheguevara (:)),etc, etc.

not to mention the Spurs FO and Pop banked and expected him to be the starting Center by now.

[ChumpDumper]

Can we officially start duplicate threads?

[EricB]

not quite. knowledgeable posters too. Timvp, bruno, cheguevara (:)),etc, etc.

not to mention the Spurs FO and Pop banked and expected him to be the starting Center by now.

Uh link showing the interview or whatever stating this please? Thanks.

[Whisky Dog]

If he somehow cracks the rotation this year and contributes forcing the Spurs to get a new deal for him then no. If he does jack and is washed out of SA after this year then he is a Spurs 1st round project bust for sure.

[z0sa]

Whether or not he's living up to expectations depends solely upon those same expectations, which differ from person to person.


Bust.

[Whisky Dog]

Uh link showing the interview or whatever stating this please? Thanks.

I don't know about the starting center exactly but logic tells you the Spurs using a 1st round pick on the guy in 2005 would indicate they would expect him to be a contributor in 2009 - not declining the option on a guy who is in a suit behind the bench.

[lennyalderette]

this guy wont get good ..if ever until hes almost 30. slowly but surely he'll work his way up there. i think we could use him as trade bait though

[Flux451]

I'm trying to figure out why this is so hard for Spur fan to understand.

Probably because of the high hopes and expectations

[EricB]

I don't know about the starting center exactly but logic tells you the Spurs using a 1st round pick on the guy in 2005 would indicate they would expect him to be a contributor in 2009 - not declining the option on a guy who is in a suit behind the bench.

End of the first round picks are just like second rounders. Gambles.

A gamble does not =bust.

[beachwood]

Ok, not an NBA bust, a SpursTalk bust. :lol

Yup, a SpursTalk bust. I was one who had high hopes for the guy. I still hope he pans out in some fashion. But after watching him in Summer League, he just didn't look good at all. And having the toughness of Mr. Glass doesn't help his case at all. I'd be surprised if the Spurs pick up his option.

[cheguevara]

Sounds like the Spurs' match for Amare Stoudemire. Stoudemire is going to be a top three player in the league soon, so the Spurs had to go out and get someone of his athletic build.

How can you doubt the Spurs draft brass? They always pull off gems.

If the Spurs feel good enough about him to give him guaranteed money, I'm guessing this is going to be a solid pick.


Damn LJ beat me to it.

His frame and skill set sound like a future Amare clone.


this guy rebounds better then scola

scola never gets 10 rebound games


:lol

[Flux451]

:lol

Diggin deep

[ElNono]

A gamble does not = bust.

A gamble gone bad does...
I don't care if they drafted him #55 in the second round. The Spurs believed in this guy enough to invest millions of dollars on him, including waiting him out for years, and odds are they're simply not going to get that investment back because he's simply not good enough.
I don't blame the Spurs one bit in drawing the line here. But at the same time, Ian had every opportunity to make this team and take advantage of the opportunities given to him, and because he IS a bust, he did not.

[EricB]

So Sam Presti failed at this draft pick then?

[EricB]

A gamble gone bad does...
I don't care if they drafted him #55 in the second round. The Spurs believed in this guy enough to invest millions of dollars on him, including waiting him out for years, and he's simply not going to get that investment back because he's simply not good enough.
I don't blame the Spurs one bit in drawing the line here. But at the same time, Ian had every opportunity to make this team and take advantage of the opportunities given to him, and because he IS a bust, he did not.

Faulty logic, but whatever makes you feel better.

[ElNono]

So Sam Presti failed at this draft pick then?

I don't think the pick was necessarily bad. Most of the time you don't know what you are going to get.
However, whoever looked at this guy later on and decided he was anything more than NBDL material screwed up, IMHO.

[cheguevara]

A bust by definition is just another word for failure. So far, Ian has been a failure in the NBA.

[ElNono]

Faulty logic, but whatever makes you feel better.

What's faulty about it?

[Mel_13]

A bust by definition is just another word for failure. So far, Ian has been a failure in the NBA.

:lol

[EricB]

What's faulty about it?

A pick that low in the draft is never thought to be anything other than "If he contributes in a few years great if not oh well"

The only reason he was given the contract he was given was because it was REQUIRED.

Hell if they could've given him a minimum ungauranteed deal they would've....

I just don't see how a pick that low in the draft a gamble on top of it can be considered a bust.

A bust is someone you draft in the lottery, put high hopes on and he stinks out and out.

Olowakandi, Adam Morrison, Sam Bowie.


Thats a bust.

A guy picked at the very end of the first round is not.

[wildbill2u]

When a rookie big with no ACLs and only 6'5" can come in and look like he's capable of getting into the rotation every night and does a double double in his first game, then you have to think it's time for Ian to find another team he might be able to persuade to wait for his development.

[ChumpDumper]

I wouldn't say "wait" for his development more than "accommodate" it. He needs to play. He won't play for the Spurs.

[Agloco]

Dude is gone for good IMO. won't crack the rotation ever. Might go to europe next year?

28th pick = Bust?

ok.

[ElNono]

A pick that low in the draft is never thought to be anything other than "If he contributes in a few years great if not oh well"

I don't disagree with this. Shouldn't take more than a couple of years to know what you have though.


The only reason he was given the contract he was given was because it was REQUIRED.

Not true. Nobody forced the Spurs to pick up his third year option last season.



Hell if they could've given him a minimum ungauranteed deal they would've....


They could have for this season.



I just don't see how a pick that low in the draft a gamble on top of it can be considered a bust.

A bust is someone you draft in the lottery, put high hopes on and he stinks out and out.

Olowakandi, Adam Morrison, Sam Bowie.

Thats a bust.

A guy picked at the very end of the first round is not.

To me, a gamble is Hairston...

Mahinmi is the kind of guy we actually invested in and turned out to be a bust...

[dbestpro]

Now that all of you are done piling on can we please get back to trading Bonner and Finley for Wade, Bosh or James?

[EmptyMan]

Ian=Bust was declared SEASONS ago.

Few wanted to admit reality.

[diego]

the label is not important. what matters is that we've needed frontcourt help the past 2-3 years and Ian was unable to provide that help. He is still young and still as the chance to become that player we all hoped for but, as a spur, he failed to give us anything more than hope and disappointment. Its not necessarily his fault, but you have to believe the FO wasted his roster spot waiting on him to develop

[EmptyMan]

Players don't learn toughness.

They either have it or they don't.

[Obstructed_View]

He's a bust because the Spurs released him. Don't you guys follow the news?

[TIMMYD!]

It's not a bad pick, he has a lot of potential and is good trade bait.

[Mel_13]

Now this is a bust:

After drafting forward Joe Alexander(notes) with the eighth overall choice in the 2008 NBA draft, the Milwaukee Bucks will make him the highest pick ever to have his rookie contract option declined, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Friday.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AtdNY2XTMPXm2YuoBIQDVve8vLYF?slug=aw-alexanderbucks103009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

[TDMVPDPOY]

wasted 3m on him, nothing to show....

ROE = shit

[galvatron3000]

So did he get released yet?

[intlspurshk]

If SPURS trade Ian, I hope SPURS can trade him + RM to OKC for Sefolosa

[CGD]

So did he get released yet?

Let's everyone get on the same page. What happened here was that the Spurs did not pick up the option on Ian's contract for an ADDITIONAL year. As for this year, Ian is still under contract and the current roster. Ian in no way was "waived" or "released" as a result of the recent announcement.

At this point, Ian's best chances at sticking with the Spurs beyond this year (assuming he's not traded), are:

(1) one of our other bigs gets hurt, Ian capitalizes on increased playing time, and turns heads; or
(2) Splitter for whatever reason decides to stay in Europe next summer, the Spurs decide Ian is still the best 6th big option, and the Spurs sign him as a FA next summer.

[it's me]

Dude doesn't even qualify for bust.... he's just plain bad..... too soft for the NBA.

[Obstructed_View]

Let's everyone get on the same page. What happened here was that the Spurs did not pick up the option on Ian's contract for an ADDITIONAL year. As for this year, Ian is still under contract and the current roster. Ian in no way was "waived" or "released" as a result of the recent announcement.

At this point, Ian's best chances at sticking with the Spurs beyond this year (assuming he's not traded), are:

(1) one of our other bigs gets hurt, Ian capitalizes on increased playing time, and turns heads; or
(2) Splitter for whatever reason decides to stay in Europe next summer, the Spurs decide Ian is still the best 6th big option, and the Spurs sign him as a FA next summer.

Shh. Don't tell people he's still on the team or we can't call him a bust.

[ShoogarBear]

If we can't agree on Ian, can we all agree on this?

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/41/43/salma-hayek-cleavage-3.0.0.0x0.400x532.jpeg

[ploto]

I am actually fine with Ian as a draft pick, but the Spurs brought him in too soon. I think with their fear at the time about securing players after their time in Europe, the Spurs decided to try a different route with Ian and sign him earlier and lock him in as a Spur. It backfired; Ian should have stayed in Europe.

[Riverwalkman]

Yeah a guy with 28th pick could not be called a bust, BUT how about a guy who has been cultivated for 4 years?

[Bukefal]

Yes we can

[ceperez]

Here are the promising players that drafted lower in 2005 than Ian:

David Lee
Brandon Bass
Ronny Turiaf
Von Wafer
Monta Ellis
Andray Blatche
Marcin Gortat

and undrafted:

Jose Calderon
Kelenna Azubuke
Chuck Hayes
Josh Powell

So from this prospective, if Ian doesn't play for the Spurs, it'll be a complete bust because the damn front office decided to get creative and draft a completely unknown and unproven player.

[sonic21]

Here are the promising players that drafted lower in 2005 than Ian:

David Lee
Brandon Bass
Ronny Turiaf
Von Wafer
Monta Ellis
Andray Blatche
Marcin Gortat


So from this prospective, if Ian doesn't play for the Spurs, it'll be a complete bust because the damn front office decided to get creative and draft a completely unknown and unproven player.

lol, that's why they were picked in the 2nd round :rolleyes

[Mel_13]

Here are the promising players that drafted lower in 2005 than Ian:

David Lee
Brandon Bass
Ronny Turiaf
Von Wafer
Monta Ellis
Andray Blatche
Marcin Gortat

and undrafted:

Jose Calderon
Kelenna Azubuke
Chuck Hayes
Josh Powell

So from this prospective, if Ian doesn't play for the Spurs, it'll be a complete bust because the damn front office decided to get creative and draft a completely unknown and unproven player.

Pick any draft and I'll find you a similar list of 2nd rounders and undrafted players that went on to have better career than some first rounders. It's a real fun game to play.

IF you stopped to think about it, you would see that lists like yours PROVE what a crapshoot the draft is. The further you get from the top, the greater the uncertainty.

[ceperez]

Pick any draft and I'll find you a similar list of 2nd rounders and undrafted players that went on to have better career than some first rounders. It's a real fun game to play.

IF you stopped to think about it, you would see that lists like yours PROVE what a crapshoot the draft is. The further you get from the top, the greater the uncertainty.

2005 was a very rich draft. Okay, just for comparison, let's look at 2004, let's see which players in the 2nd round developed into NBA players:

Varejao
Ariza

Just two players! So you can be excused for drafting Beno Udrih at 28th because (1) he's still an NBA player (2) chances are you couldn't have drafted any better.

okay.... let's look even earlier... 2003. Damn rich draft.

Spurs draft Barbossa and trade him. Here's the 2nd round:

Kapono
Walton
Blake
Pachulia
Bogans
Bonner
Mo Williams
Kyle Korver

compare this list to the 2005 list and you'll realize quickly how big a missed opportunity it was.

[Mel_13]

2005 was a very rich draft. Okay, just for comparison, let's look at 2004, let's see which players in the 2nd round developed into NBA players:

Varejao
Ariza

Just two players! So you can be excused for drafting Beno Udrih at 28th because (1) he's still an NBA player (2) chances are you couldn't have drafted any better.

okay.... let's look even earlier... 2003. Damn rich draft.

Spurs draft Barbossa and trade him. Here's the 2nd round:

Kapono
Walton
Blake
Pachulia
Bogans
Bonner
Mo Williams
Kyle Korver

compare this list to the 2005 list and you'll realize quickly how big a missed opportunity it was.

As usual, you miss the point. The missed opportunities are only visible with the advantage of hindsight.

[ceperez]

As usual, you miss the point. The missed opportunities are only visible with the advantage of hindsight.

No, you missed the point. It's all about probabilities.

2003 was a mistake because there was no better player than Barbosa.
2004 was a not a mistake because the likelihood ( 7 out of 100 ) of drafting would be plain luck.
2005 was a mistake because drafting a better player had the odds of 7/30 or roughly 1 out of 4.

And that's is what this discussion is all about. Was drafting Ian a mistake?
Barbossa clearly a mistake. Beno wasn't one. Ian if he doesn't stick with the Spurs will be a mistake.

[Mel_13]

No, you missed the point. It's all about probabilities.

2003 was a mistake because there was no better player than Barbosa.
2004 was a not a mistake because the likelihood ( 7 out of 100 ) of drafting would be plain luck.
2005 was a mistake because drafting a better player had the odds of 7/30 or roughly 1 out of 4.

And that's is what this discussion is all about. Was drafting Ian a mistake?
Barbossa clearly a mistake. Beno wasn't one. Ian if he doesn't stick with the Spurs will be a mistake.

You only know these things with the benefit of hindsight. In hindsight, better choices were available. On the day those drafts were held, it was all conjecture.

The title of this thread poses the question of whether or not Ian is a bust, not whether or not drafting him was a mistake. Those are two very different questions, at least to me.

My understanding of the word bust when used in connection with NBA/NFL draft scenarios does not include a case like Ian's.

As I stated earlier in this thread:

The 28th pick, by definition, cannot be a bust.

At least as I understand the meaning of the word.

[booonkers]

I dunno I mean the past couple of years lots of people here kinda expected him to be a part of the rotation by this time, so I guess he is a Spurstalk bust.

[ceperez]

You only know these things with the benefit of hindsight. In hindsight, better choices were available. On the day those drafts were held, it was all conjecture.

The title of this thread poses the question of whether or not Ian is a bust, not whether or not drafting him was a mistake. Those are two very different questions, at least to me.

My understanding of the word bust when used in connection with NBA/NFL draft scenarios does not include a case like Ian's.

As I stated earlier in this thread:

The 28th pick, by definition, cannot be a bust.

At least as I understand the meaning of the word.

Maybe for most other teams, like say the Clippers, you wouldn't call it a bust.

But for the Spurs standards, it could be one. Consult all our drafts since 2000 and it'll be hard to argue if anyone of them were busts. Plain and simple, the Spurs rarely if ever have busts.

And how do you know if someone was a bust, well obviously only hindsight will tell you! Duh!

Let's just say this though, Ian is till a Spur for this year, so it is too early to tell if he was a bust. All I'm saying is that if he doesn't play, then he would be a bust.

[Mel_13]

Maybe for most other teams, like say the Clippers, you wouldn't call it a bust.

But for the Spurs standards, it could be one. Consult all our drafts since 2000 and it'll be hard to argue if anyone of them were busts. Plain and simple, the Spurs rarely if ever have busts.

And how do you know if someone was a bust, well obviously only hindsight will tell you! Duh!

Let's just say this though, Ian is till a Spur for this year, so it is too early to tell if he was a bust. All I'm saying is that if he doesn't play, then he would be a bust.

I'm speechless

[manu_maniac]

Jeez, he hasn't even played yet this season. I think he should get some time in today in exchange for Ratliff, since we're playing the friggin' Kings off a back-to-back, lol. Maybe, then maybe we can start to judge if he's a bust.

[bluebellmaniac]

Yeah a guy with 28th pick could not be called a bust, BUT how about a guy who has been cultivated for 4 years?

He wasn't cultivated last year thanks to being misdiagnosed on his injury.

This is now a contract year for Ian. By declining next year's option, Pop is lighting a fire under him and seeing how he responds. He has nothing to lose now, so if he doesn't throw himself into the mix and dive for loose balls and start unleashing "the beast within", then he knows where he won't be next year.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know about the starting center exactly but logic tells you the Spurs using a 1st round pick on the guy in 2005 would indicate they would expect him to be a contributor in 2009 - not declining the option on a guy who is in a suit behind the bench.

Exactly.

I don't know if "bust" is the right word. But if you guys don't think Pop, Ian and everyone else associated with the Spurs isn't disappointed at where Ian is right now, you are crazy.

I'm not saying the Spurs expected him to be starting by now. However, I'm sure they didn't expect him to be chronically injured and a wasted pick either. They had probably hoped at this point, he'd be earning some minutes in the regular rotation.

If he hadn't been hurt all last year, then maybe that would have been the time for him to carve a niche here. But now with Duncan/McDyess/Blair/Bonner/Ratliff ahead of him, even if he's stellar in practice, it would be a long long road to consistent minutes.

[Mel_13]

He wasn't cultivated last year thanks to being misdiagnosed on his injury.

This is now a contract year for Ian. By declining next year's option, Pop is lighting a fire under him and seeing how he responds. He has nothing to lose now, so if he doesn't throw himself into the mix and dive for loose balls and start unleashing "the beast within", then he knows where he won't be next year.

If he does unleash the beast, he won't be here next year.

I don't think there's any realistic chance he's here next year, but if he plays really well then there's no chance.

[bluebellmaniac]

Jeez, he hasn't even played yet this season. I think he should get some time in today in exchange for Ratliff, since we're playing the friggin' Kings off a back-to-back, lol. Maybe, then maybe we can start to judge if he's a bust.

I would love to see Ian get playing time to prove himself, but I think the fact of the matter is that the proof happens out of the public eye: in PRACTICE. He is gonna have to kick butt in practice and prove he DESERVES to play before we ever see him on the court. He is going to have to try to become Blair's nightmare, and that is obviously asking a lot!!! We'll see, 82 games is a hell of a grind and a ton of time for Ian to come around in his mindset about his approach to the game.

Hell, we usually don't start to gel as a team anyway until after the rodeo trip. So a 4 month window of opportunity is ticking, after that Pop usually has his rotation down and there isn't much chance to break the rotation, barring injury.

[bluebellmaniac]

If he does unleash the beast, he won't be here next year.

I don't think there's any realistic chance he's here next year, but if he plays really well then there's no chance.

Even though we declined his option year, wouldn't we still have restricted free agent rights? Or does that go out the window with the declined option year?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

^^He'll be an unrestricted free agent.

[Mel_13]

Even though we declined his option year, wouldn't we still have restricted free agent rights? Or does that go out the window with the declined option year?

By the CBA, the Spurs can offer no more than Ian would have received if the Spurs had picked up the option. It's a provision designed to keep teams from subverting the CBA by declining an option on a great player in order to sign him to new long-term deal 1-2 years earlier than normal.

So the maximum the Spurs can offer Ian this summer is 1.78M.

If he plays very well this season, that won't be enough to keep him.

The more likely scenario is that he is traded as a part of a package for a roster improvement or is moved in a lux tax saving transaction.

[exstatic]

A bust by definition is just another word for failure. So far, Ian has been a failure in the NBA.

That's your definition. Mine has always been someone who was highly touted, a high pick or FA signing, and then stiffs.

[Bruno]

By the CBA, the Spurs can offer no more than Ian would have received if the Spurs had picked up the option. It's a provision designed to keep teams from subverting the CBA by declining an option on a great player in order to sign him to new long-term deal 1-2 years earlier than normal.

So the maximum the Spurs can offer Ian this summer is 1.78M.

If he plays very well this season, that won't be enough to keep him.

The more likely scenario is that he is traded as a part of a package for a roster improvement or is moved in a lux tax saving transaction.

Spurs can offer Mahinmi more than $1.78M but they had to use the MLE to do so.

And I agree with you, it's almost sure than Ian won't be a Spur next year.

[Extra Stout]

All 28th picks are a crap shoot. Even by ceperez's rather twisted logic, if there is only a 1 in 4 chance of selecting a better player, then there is a 3 in 4 chance of not. No team is going to hit on every pick. The Spurs, not counting picks made for other teams as part of trades, are by my count 3 out of 7 with draft picks from the mid-20's to mid-30's in the Tim Duncan era, which is not a bad hit rate overall.

Hits:
Parker
Hill
Blair

Misses:
Udrih
Mahinmi
Williams

Undetermined:
Splitter

The Spurs apparently thought Mahinmi was a steal of a pick when they got him. They were wrong; he hasn't panned out. Even though Mahinmi is still really young, if he had "it," "it" would have shown up by now even if in unpolished form. The reason he hasn't gotten any playing time is because he hasn't demonstrated that he deserves any.

But the hype in Spurstalk regarding Mahinmi is just business as usual. There are always two camps here.

One is the large homer camp which believes that any player the Spurs draft is a genius pick who will be a superstar once he develops, and keep believing that as long as the team holds his rights, but then immediately forget the player ever existed, or at least dismiss him as stupid, lazy, and evil, once the Spurs release him. Hell, there are still people here burning a candle for Robertas freaking Javtokas.

The second is the smaller group with an irrational hatred for Gregg Popovich who hates every pick the Spurs make, points out some other player the Spurs should have drafted even when the one they did get is good (sometimes even if that player was already gone when the Spurs picked), harps on all busts as proof that Pop is a moron, but then when the busts get released starts lionizing them and calling their release a huge mistake.

The everlasting struggle between these two legions of knuckleheads is why the rather prosaic story of a late first-round pick not panning out turns into this drawn-out saga here.

[Mel_13]

Spurs can offer Mahinmi more than $1.78M but they had to use the MLE to do so.

And I agree with you, it's almost sure than Ian won't be a Spur next year.

My CBA knowledge increases yet again.

I had this sentence stuck in my head:

In other words, teams can't decline the option in order to get around the salary scale and give the player more money.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q19

Closer inspection shows that only applies to the Bird exception, not the Mid-Level exception.

Thanks

[J Mack]

:ihit i say let him lace them up and play in some meaningful games and see what he has. come on Pop its early in the season.

[easy7]

I hope Ian can still show some signs of life.

[ceperez]

Hits:
Parker
Hill
Blair

Misses:
Udrih
Mahinmi
Williams

Undetermined:
Splitter


You can't judge a pick without taking into account the drafting class that he was in. Some years the pickings are slim, other years they aren't

Udrih was not a miss because if you looked at that class, there was likey you would pick a miss anyway.

M. Williams was drafted in the 2nd round and there are only 2 other players that were drafted lower and are still in the NBA. Davis and Gasol. Why we missed on Marc Gasol is anybody's guess.

In short, you can't consider a pick a miss when the pickings are slim.

[spurtech09]

Ian hasn't play that much to consider him a bust.....If i were pop ...add him to the line up

[CGD]

So the maximum the Spurs can offer Ian this summer is 1.78M.

If he plays very well this season, that won't be enough to keep him.

The more likely scenario is that he is traded as a part of a package for a roster improvement or is moved in a lux tax saving transaction.

Considering the limited playing time he'll get this year, I'm not sure he'll command the value to his option. If the Spurs really want to keep Ian for what ever reason next summer (i.e., no Splitter, no better 6th Big Option) then they should get a bargain.

[Obstructed_View]

Seems too bad that the team doctors failed to find the bone chip in the guy's ankle that ended up costing him a year of development and then the team won't pick up his option because he didn't play well enough in the pre-season, but that's the way it works out. It ain't the National Basketball Charity. Kid will probably get maybe one or two more shots. He'd better be ready to step up.

[rascal]

You only know these things with the benefit of hindsight. In hindsight, better choices were available. On the day those drafts were held, it was all conjecture.

The title of this thread poses the question of whether or not Ian is a bust, not whether or not drafting him was a mistake. Those are two very different questions, at least to me.

My understanding of the word bust when used in connection with NBA/NFL draft scenarios does not include a case like Ian's.

As I stated earlier in this thread:

The 28th pick, by definition, cannot be a bust.

At least as I understand the meaning of the word.

On draft night with proper foresight you make the right pick. Without the right foresight you make the wrong "bust" pick.

[Mel_13]

On draft night with proper foresight you make the right pick. Without the right foresight you make the wrong "bust" pick.

By that logic, the majority of all draft picks made by all teams in all leagues could be labeled a bust.

Of course, that would be ridiculous.

[Manufan909]

Seems too bad that the team doctors failed to find the bone chip in the guy's ankle that ended up costing him a year of development and then the team won't pick up his option because he didn't play well enough in the pre-season, but that's the way it works out. It ain't the National Basketball Charity. Kid will probably get maybe one or two more shots. He'd better be ready to step up.

One of the most logical posts in this thread, and a idea we were both trying to harp on to no avail last season. How in the hell is it Ian's fault that the first 7 scans didn't find the problem? If even the third one had worked, he probably have played 20+ mpg for the 2nd half of the season, and maybe even worked out his foul issues. Tim/Bonner/Fab/Kurt from last season only had 50 quality minutes in them, so if Ian could learn to not foul out in less than half an hour, he'd be the 3rd at worst big in the rotation this year, and Pop might not have gone after Haislip and/or Theo. Especially not Theo if Ian had proven decent at blocking shots.

I really need to find a machine that can cross dimensions, so I can go to a parallel universe where Ian started all of '08-'09, Scola had been signed instead of Bonner, and Mason never had to handle any of the PG duties unless both Tony and Hill were hurt.:king

[afireinside20]

Can we "OFFICIALLY" close this shit already?! I'm so tired of hearing about this guy, he's never going to do anything for us. He's always hurt or recovering from something, just drop it already. The Spurs need to dump this guy away already.

[rayray2k8]

By not picking up Ian's option for next year might say that he is a bust..

[UnWantedTheory]

I don't think the pick was necessarily bad. Most of the time you don't know what you are going to get.
However, whoever looked at this guy later on and decided he was anything more than NBDL material screwed up, IMHO.

Like a box of Chocolates?

[UnWantedTheory]

How about we just say..."This particular experiment is not working out. We had high hopes for this young man, but he has thus far been a dissapointment. All of you Ian fans are not to worry because he will get other opportunities, they just might not be with the Spurs organization." :)

[Kamnik]

If we can't agree on Ian, can we all agree on this?

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/41/43/salma-hayek-cleavage-3.0.0.0x0.400x532.jpeg

AGREED! :toast

[Muser]

A bust is a lottery pick, Kwame Brown/Olowokandi/Adam Morrision/Darko are busts.

[iilluzioN]

can we "officially" close this shit already?! I'm so tired of hearing about this guy, he's never going to do anything for us. He's always hurt or recovering from something, just drop it already. The spurs need to dump this guy away already.

i agree

[symple19]

I'm so sick of seeing threads about this bust

Give it up people

[montgod]

And just like in any draft where hindsight is 20/20, look what could have been if Ian wasn't selected in favor of one of these players:

#30 David Lee
#33 Brandon Bass
#37 Ronny Turiaf
#40 Monta Ellis
#45 Louis Williams
#49 Andray Blatche (talented, but a total bonehead)
#50 Ryan Gomes
#57 Marcin Gortat

[montgod]

By not picking up Ian's option for next year might say that he is a bust..

A couple of other more valid assumptions:

1. Spurs are already stacked at his PF position with Duncan, Blair, McDyess, Ratliff, Haislip, and possibly Splitter.

2. Due to the current cap, the Spurs wanted to cut their losses now and focus on Splitter for next year.

3. Just saw that it would be more trouble than it was worth to keep "teaching" Ian for another year or two at over 1.5 million per year (double that when already over the cap).

4. In understanding all this, the Spurs were just being professional and helpful in allowing Ian to find another team to get more minutes and more of an opportunity (i.e. Scola trade).

[DPG21920]

I am going to b*tch slap the next person who talks negatively about my avatar. I dare you.

[JustinJDW]

How can he be a bust? It's not like we were expecting him to bring our Team to Championships or anything. Ain't he like a late 1st Round Pick?

Tiago Splitter. Now there is a guy I am looking forward to. :toast

[Sigz]

I am going to b*tch slap the next person who talks negatively about my avatar. I dare you.

Fuck your avatar.

Fuck Ian and his glassgina.

Fuck your 20 post per day average.

Get a fucking life.

[TIMMYD!]

And just like in any draft where hindsight is 20/20, look what could have been if Ian wasn't selected in favor of one of these players:

#30 David Lee
#33 Brandon Bass
#37 Ronny Turiaf
#40 Monta Ellis
#45 Louis Williams
#49 Andray Blatche (talented, but a total bonehead)
#50 Ryan Gomes
#57 Marcin Gortat
They're all pretty good but we can't say if they were with us they would have developed as well because they mostly went to mediocre teams.

[DPG21920]

Fuck your avatar.

Fuck Ian and his glassgina.

Fuck your 20 post per day average.

Get a fucking life.

lol your avatar would get dunked on by mine.

lol you liking WNBA players.

lol looking at my profile.

lol guy on a message board telling another guy on a message board to get a life.

[mystargtr34]

If he is a bust, then that will make him the first Pick 26 in NBA history to be considered one.

[superbigtime]

Yes he's a bust, failure, disappointment, project gone badly, whatever you want to call it... can't you knuckleheads fucking accept that?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

---the salma hayek pic was unfair, my porn server is down

---this is a non issue....he obviously sucks taint if his option was not picked up

---dammit extra stout why do you always gotta separate the herd in such bleak terms

Honestly though, I mean in my opinion, unless Pop and RC are fucking morons, we should put Ratliff on the IR to just keep him healthy for a stretch. I don't know if it will be in December, or February. It probably depends on how fast Pop trusts him to know the system. When that happens Ian will take his place. When that happens, he will get a little PT. That's hit last chance ever as a spur.

Really, the bottom line is it sucks ASS that we have so many new players to break in this year. Noone, not even the grey's lord and savior timvp knows what pop is going to do in regards to playing time and rotation. There's a strong chance Pop will keep Ratliff active and blocking shots all damn season. Personally, due to him being insanely old and fragile, I hope that's not the case. But can you blame him if he does this? He's brand spankin' new. Such a Catch 22 here in regards to these old big acquisitions this offseason.

[Sigz]

lol your avatar would get dunked on by mine.

lol you liking WNBA players.

lol looking at my profile.

lol guy on a message board telling another guy on a message board to get a life.


lol my avatar could cross the shit out of Ian and his glassgina, resulting in another trip to the IR

lol not looking at my profile

lol 20 ppd average. Find a woman!

[ElNono]

All 28th picks are a crap shoot. Even by ceperez's rather twisted logic, if there is only a 1 in 4 chance of selecting a better player, then there is a 3 in 4 chance of not. No team is going to hit on every pick. The Spurs, not counting picks made for other teams as part of trades, are by my count 3 out of 7 with draft picks from the mid-20's to mid-30's in the Tim Duncan era, which is not a bad hit rate overall.

Hits:
Parker
Hill
Blair

Misses:
Udrih
Mahinmi
Williams

Undetermined:
Splitter

The Spurs apparently thought Mahinmi was a steal of a pick when they got him. They were wrong; he hasn't panned out. Even though Mahinmi is still really young, if he had "it," "it" would have shown up by now even if in unpolished form. The reason he hasn't gotten any playing time is because he hasn't demonstrated that he deserves any.

But the hype in Spurstalk regarding Mahinmi is just business as usual. There are always two camps here.

One is the large homer camp which believes that any player the Spurs draft is a genius pick who will be a superstar once he develops, and keep believing that as long as the team holds his rights, but then immediately forget the player ever existed, or at least dismiss him as stupid, lazy, and evil, once the Spurs release him. Hell, there are still people here burning a candle for Robertas freaking Javtokas.

The second is the smaller group with an irrational hatred for Gregg Popovich who hates every pick the Spurs make, points out some other player the Spurs should have drafted even when the one they did get is good (sometimes even if that player was already gone when the Spurs picked), harps on all busts as proof that Pop is a moron, but then when the busts get released starts lionizing them and calling their release a huge mistake.

The everlasting struggle between these two legions of knuckleheads is why the rather prosaic story of a late first-round pick not panning out turns into this drawn-out saga here.

Ain't you missing two argentines in that list?

[Mel_13]

Ain't you missing two argentines in that list?

He limited himself to picks from the mid 20's to the mid 30's.

[ElNono]

He limited himself to picks from the mid 20's to the mid 30's.

I see. Carry on. :toast

[bigdog]

The dude is 22 years old, and hasn't really had the chance to play. How on Earth is he a bust?

[DPG21920]

lol my avatar could cross the shit out of Ian and his glassgina, resulting in another trip to the IR

lol not looking at my profile

lol 20 ppd average. Find a woman!


Dayum Becky is fine.

Time to spank the meat.

lol creepy.

lol a guy who beats off to WNBA players telling other guys to find a girl.

lol russia.

[Sigz]

lol creepy.

lol a guy who beats off to WNBA players telling other guys to find a girl.

lol russia.

Hahaha @ going through my old posts to find something bad.

What a FUCKING tool! HAHAHA


Now little guy, why don't you run along. While you're at it, enough of the fellatio with Ian and his glassgina.

[DPG21920]

Hahaha @ going through my old posts to find something bad.

What a FUCKING tool! HAHAHA


Now little guy, why don't you run along. While you're at it, enough of the fellatio with Ian and his glassgina.

Clearly, your creepy posts about masturbating to WNBA players and constant lame shit talking makes me the tool....

[Manufan909]

Hahaha @ going through my old posts to find something bad.

What a FUCKING tool! HAHAHA


Now little guy, why don't you run along. While you're at it, enough of the fellatio with Ian and his glassgina.

Is not loving a vagina, even one made of glass, cunnilingus?

Also, props on using the only pic in existence that makes Becky look ugly.:p:

[Sigz]

Clearly, your creepy posts about masturbating to WNBA players and constant lame shit talking makes me the tool....

I'm still waiting for you to do something since I talked shiAt about your avy, little tiger.

[DPG21920]

I'm still waiting for you to do something since I talked shiAt about your avy, little tiger.

Enough girl, shhh. You look like an idiot.

[Sigz]

Stilllll waiting 'tough guy'

[DPG21920]

Yes, because I was being serious. You are such a little cunny. Not only are you obviously not tough (bc you like the WNBA), you are annoying and not very smart.

[Sigz]

Yes, because I was being serious. You are such a little cunny. Not only are you obviously not tough (bc you like the WNBA), you are annoying and not very smart.

Hahaha, yeaaaa there it is... A STRONG stand from DPG. :clap

My education is probably worth more than your life you shit talking ass fuck.

(And who the fuck said I liked the WNBA? I like one fucking player you idiot)

[DPG21920]

Hahaha, yeaaaa there it is... A STRONG stand from DPG. :clap

My education is probably worth more than your life you shit talking ass fuck.

(And who the fuck said I liked the WNBA? I like one fucking player you idiot)

Please girl. Give it up. You look like a giant, WNBA masturbating douche. What are you going to do about it?

[gm5k]

http://cdn1.knowyourmeme.com/i/9988/original/internet_serious_mf_business.jpg

[DPG21920]

I am going to b*tch slap the next person who talks negatively about my avatar. I dare you.


Fuck your avatar.

Fuck Ian and his glassgina.

Fuck your 20 post per day average.

Get a fucking life.

This all started when I posted this (and as any normal functioning non WNBA masturbating douche can see) as a joke to people saying ridiculous stuff about being a bust.

Then she keeps going on and on and on, like it is something serious. LOL at the fact I say "the next person..." and this little girl comes running along all puffed out like I would ever b*tch slap a cunny :rollin

[rascal]

How can he be a bust? It's not like we were expecting him to bring our Team to Championships or anything. Ain't he like a late 1st Round Pick?

Tiago Splitter. Now there is a guy I am looking forward to. :toast

According to the expectations of this site he is a bust. How often did we see how he was going to be a big contributor by now!