fort hood

[Crookshanks]

ceremony is over. no sign of bush, cheney or rummy.

typical.

Last night former President George W. Bush and his wife Laura made a secret visit to the devastated military families at Fort Hood.

The Bushes instructed the commander of the mourning military base that they wanted no publicity. With their Secret Service detail, Bush and his wife made the 30 mile trip unannounced from their ranch near Crawford, Texas Friday evening.

Fox News broke news of the visit this afternoon. Other sources said the former first couple spent about two hours meeting with the wounded, family and soldiers, talking quietly and at times hugging them as they did in private at other times of crisis such as post-9/11.

Typical of you clam - to jump to conclusions.

[spursncowboys]

no, he's congratulating him on his marksmanship.

too soon

[DarrinS]

Hey micca of da streets, do you really believe we are at war with all Muslims? I know some Muslims use the great Satan term for westerners, and you said as much in your post.

Do you consider all Muslims the great Satan they way some Msulsims consider westerners the great Satan?


Now I know how you achieved such a high post count -- wash, rinse, repeat.

Are you posting from work, Micca?

[spursncowboys]

ceremony is over. no sign of bush, cheney or rummy.

typical.

Did Obama give anymore shout outs?

[hope4dopes]

Nice gesture.

[DarrinS]

ceremony is over. no sign of bush, cheney or rummy.

typical.





Last night former President George W. Bush and his wife Laura made a secret visit to the devastated military families at Fort Hood.

The Bushes instructed the commander of the mourning military base that they wanted no publicity. With their Secret Service detail, Bush and his wife made the 30 mile trip unannounced from their ranch near Crawford, Texas Friday evening.




pwned

[jack sommerset]

Assbake makes no apology for trolling.

[hope4dopes]

Now I know how you achieved such a high post count -- wash, rinse, repeat.

Are you posting from work, Micca?not today.

[ChumpDumper]

Now I know how you achieved such a high post count -- wash, rinse, repeat.Folks never answer. Observe your own response to my following question.


Are you posting from work, Micca?Are you posting from work, DarrinS?

[jack sommerset]

I'm posting from somewhere!!! But not for long. I gots to get going! Nice ceremony.

[clambake]

Were Bill Clinton and Al Gore there?

they had a much bigger representative.

not much try in that effort, d.

[clambake]

Last night former President George W. Bush and his wife Laura made a secret visit to the devastated military families at Fort Hood.

The Bushes instructed the commander of the mourning military base that they wanted no publicity. With their Secret Service detail, Bush and his wife made the 30 mile trip unannounced from their ranch near Crawford, Texas Friday evening.

Fox News broke news of the visit this afternoon. Other sources said the former first couple spent about two hours meeting with the wounded, family and soldiers, talking quietly and at times hugging them as they did in private at other times of crisis such as post-9/11.

Typical of you clam - to jump to conclusions.
i'd make it a secret if i were him.

[MannyIsGod]

This forum is pretty worthless right now outside a few posters like Winehole.

[clambake]

Assbake makes no apology for trolling.

i'm sorry they weren't man enough. is that better, jack?

[spursncowboys]

This forum is pretty worthless right now outside a few posters like Winehole.

I respect the fact that you didn't add your name.

[DarrinS]

This forum is pretty worthless right now outside a few posters like Winehole.


At least you can use your shift key and punctuation.

[clambake]

At least you can use your shift key and punctuation.

does your boss appreciate your typing skills?

did he pat you on the back and say so?

or are you just giddy with excitement for when your boss might notice you again?

[clambake]

sorry about that, crooks. i forgot you don't have a boss.

[pkbpkb81]

Last night former President George W. Bush and his wife Laura made a secret visit to the devastated military families at Fort Hood.

The Bushes instructed the commander of the mourning military base that they wanted no publicity. With their Secret Service detail, Bush and his wife made the 30 mile trip unannounced from their ranch near Crawford, Texas Friday evening.

Fox News broke news of the visit this afternoon. Other sources said the former first couple spent about two hours meeting with the wounded, family and soldiers, talking quietly and at times hugging them as they did in private at other times of crisis such as post-9/11.

Typical of you clam - to jump to conclusions.



Good for them, I know a lot of you hate the bushes but that was the right thing to do and to not have any media there makes it even better imho

[jack sommerset]

Bush is a great American.

[hope4dopes]

Him doing that kinna embarasses Obama, I think we can look to see Obama doing damage control in the next couple of days.

[Crookshanks]

This is from foxnews.com
========================

The Army psychiatrist suspected of killing 13 people at Fort Hood reportedly warned senior Army physicians in 2007 that the military should allow Muslim soldiers to be released as conscientious objectors instead of fighting in wars to avoid "adverse events."

According to The Washington Post, Major Nidal Malik Hasan was supposed to make a presentation on a medical topic during his senior year as a psychiatric resident at Walter Reed Medical Center.

Instead, Hasan lectured his supervisors and two dozen mental health staff members on Islam, homicide bombings and threats the military could encounter from Muslims conflicted about fighting against other Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A source who attended the presentation told the paper, "It was really strange. The senior doctors looked really upset."

The Powerpoint, entitled, "The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military," consisted of 50 slides, according to a copy obtained by the Post.

"It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being in a military that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims," Hasan said in the presentation.

Under a slide titled "Comments," he wrote: "If Muslim groups can convince Muslims that they are fighting for God against injustices of the 'infidels'; ie: enemies of Islam, then Muslims can become a potent adversary ie: suicide bombing, etc." [sic]

The last bullet point on that page reads simply: "We love death more then [sic] you love life!"

On the final slide, labeled "Recommendation," Hasan wrote: "Department of Defense should allow Muslims [sic] Soldiers the option of being released as 'Conscientious objectors' to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events."

An Army spokesman told the Post Monday night he was unaware of the presentation, and a Walter Reed spokesman declined comment.

A classmate of Hasan, meanwhile, told FoxNews.com that the warning signs were all there — the justification of homicide bombings; spewing anti-American hatred; efforts to reach out to Al Qaeda — but that the military treated Hasan with kid gloves, even after giving him a poor performance review.

And though he was on the radar screen of at least one U.S. intelligence agency, no action was taken that might have prevented the Army psychiatrist from allegedly gunning down 13 people and wounding 29 others in the Fort Hood massacre last week.

"There were definitely clear indications that Hasan's loyalties were not with America," Lt. Col. Val Finnell, Hasan's classmate at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md. He and Hasan were students in the school's public health master's degree program from 2007-2008.

"The issue here is that there's a political correctness climate in the military. They don't want to say anything because it would be considered questioning somebody's religious belief, or they're afraid of an equal opportunity lawsuit.

"I want to be clear that this wasn't about anyone questioning his religious views. It is different when you are a civilian than when you are a military officer," said Finnell, who is a physician at the Los Angeles Air Force Base.

"When you are in the military and you start making comments that are seditious, when you say you believe something other than your oath of office — someone needed to say why is this guy saying this stuff.

"He was a lightning rod. He made his views known and he was very vocal, he had extremely radical jihadist views," Finnell said. "When you're a military officer you take an oath to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic.

"They should've confronted him — our professors, officers — but they were too concerned about being politically correct."

Finnell said the warning signs were clear to many, not just classmates. Faculty members, including many high-ranking military officers, witnessed firsthand his anti-Americanism, he said.

Finnell recalled Hasan telling his classmates and professors, "I'm a Muslim first and I hold the Shariah, the Islamic Law, before the United States Constitution."

He recalled one time when his classmates were giving presentations in an environmental health class on topics like soil and water contamination and the effects of mold. When it was Hasan's turn, he said, he got up in front of the class and began to speak about his chosen topic, "Is the War on Terror a war on Islam?"

Finnell says he raised his hand. "I asked the professor, "What does this topic have to do with environmental health?"

"When he was challenged on his views, Hasan became visibly upset. He became sweaty, he was emotional."

But despite questioning from the other students, Finnell said, the professor allowed Hasan to continue. He said Hasan's anti-American vitriol continued for two years as he worked toward his degree in public health.

There were even more warning signs that might have alerted the Army in recent months:

— In the days and weeks before the shooting, Hasan voiced his objections to Muslims fighting the war on terror to members of his mosque, the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen. Congregants at the mosque said he voiced his objections to Muslims serving in the U.S. military and to his impending deployment to Afghanistan.

— Over the summer, Hasan's comments led Osman Danquah, co-founder of the mosque, to recommend that it deny Hasan's request to become a lay Muslim leader at Fort Hood, the Associated Press reported.

— In the months before Thursday's shooting Hasan tried reaching out to people associated with Al Qaeda — and did so under the watchful eye of at least one U.S. intelligence agency. An intelligence official told FOXNews.com that "Hasan was on our radar for months."

On Sunday Sen. Joe Lieberman announced his intention to lead a congressional investigation into the Fort Hood murders, saying there were "strong warning signs" that Hasan was an "Islamic extremist."

"The U.S. Army has to have zero tolerance. He should have been gone," said Lieberman, who is chairman of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.

In interviews Sunday, Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey stressed that it was too early in the investigation to know whether these warnings signs could have spared the lives of the 13 killed, dismissing earlier reports about such signs as "speculation" based on anecdotes. "I don't want to say that we missed it," he said. More PC crap

Finnell said that once Hasan was identified as the suspect in Thursday's massacre, he reached out to the Army to tell them about his experiences with Hasan.

This time, he said, "They listened."
====================================

Are you libs still going to say this wasn't an act of terrorism?

[ChumpDumper]

Him doing that kinna embarasses ObamaHow does that embarrass Obama specifically?

[coyotes_geek]

Him doing that kinna embarasses Obama, I think we can look to see Obama doing damage control in the next couple of days.

Okay, I'll play along. Why should Obama be embarrassed?

Is he supposed to be embarrassed because Bush beat him there? It's a little easier for Bush to drop whatever he's doing, load up a couple of secret service guys in the family truckster and drive 30 minutes than it is for Obama to drop what he's doing and pack up the hundreds of people that need to accompany him into AF1 for a cross country flight.

Or is Obama supposed to be embarrassed because Bush kept his visit a secret? It's not like that's an option for Obama. He can't just disappear. He's the president of the united states, not the governor of south carolina.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you libs still going to say this wasn't an act of terrorism?As illustrated in several threads, it depends on your definition. It fits some and not others -- but I won't argue against the characterization.

As for his loyalties, do you personally put country before God?

[clambake]

he didn't want to go. time ran out on him.

a terrorist thats a Major would have waited till he got shipped out, then pull the ultimate act on muslim soil, and go out a hero.

[rjv]

just out of curiosity, how many crackpots have had military backgrounds?

[DarrinS]

just out of curiosity, how many crackpots have had military backgrounds?


I can assure you that the number of crackpots in the military is dwarfed by the number of crackpots in the general populace.

[rjv]

actually, i just googled and got this article:

They Threaten, Seethe and Unhinge, Then Kill in Quantity

By FORD FESSENDEN; Reporting for this series was by Fox Butterfield, Ford Fessenden, William Glaberson and Laurie Goodstein, with research assistance from Anthony Zirilli and other members of the news research staff of The New York Times.

Published: Sunday, April 9, 2000


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Correction Appended
They are not drunk or high on drugs. They are not racists or Satanists, or addicted to violent video games, movies or music.
Most are white men, but a surprising number are women, Asians and blacks. Many have college degrees, but most are unemployed. Many are military veterans.
They give lots of warning and even tell people explicitly what they plan to do. They carry semiautomatic weapons they have obtained easily and, in most cases, legally.
They do not try to get away. In the end, half turn their guns on themselves or are shot dead by others. They not only want to kill, they also want to die.
That is the profile of the 102 killers in 100 rampage attacks examined by The New York Times in a computer-assisted study looking back more than 50 years and including the shootings in 1999 at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., and one by a World War II veteran on a residential street in Camden, N.J., in 1949. Four hundred twenty-five people were killed and 510 people were injured in the attacks. The database, which primarily focused on cases in the last decade, is believed to be the largest ever compiled on this phenomenon in the United States.
Though the attacks are rare when compared with other American murders, they have provoked an intense national discussion about crime, education and American culture. The Times found, however, that the debate may have largely overlooked a critical issue: At least half of the killers showed signs of serious mental health problems.
The debate was most intense last year, which began with echoes of gunfire in a Salt Lake City television station in January and ended with seven Honolulu office workers dead in November. In between there was a berserk rampage by an Atlanta day trader that left 12 dead and 13 injured. A self-styled fascist attacked a Los Angeles day care center. Seven people died as a hymn ended in a Fort Worth church.
Probably the most shocking were the shootings by two students at Columbine High School who burst into suburban classrooms and killed 13 and wounded 23. The teenage killers were much like the adults The Times studied, but with important distinctions that may bring a better understanding to the problem. [Page 29.] As the anniversary of that crime, April 20, approaches, the questions about crime and culture will inevitably reverberate again.
The Times set out to examine as many of these killings as possible in an effort to learn what factors they and the people who carried them out shared. For while many possible causes have been cited, including violent video games, a decline in moral values and the easy availability of guns, there has been little serious study of this explosive violence.
The Times included only rampage homicides -- multiple-victim killings that were not primarily domestic or connected to a robbery or gang. Serial killers were not included, nor were those whose primary motives were political.
These are among the findings:
*While the killings have caused many people to point to the violent aspects of the culture, a closer look shows little evidence that video games, movies or television encouraged many of the attacks. In only 6 of the 100 cases did the killers have a known interest in violent video games. Seven other killers showed an interest in violent movies.
*In a decade that had a sharp decrease in almost all kinds of homicides, the incidence of these rampage killings appears to have increased, according to a separate computer analysis by The Times of nearly 25 years of homicide data from the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Still, these killings remain extremely rare, much less than 1 percent of all homicides.
*Society has turned to law enforcement to resolve the rampage killings that have become almost a staple of the nightly news. There has been an increasing call for greater security in schools and in the workplace. But a closer look shows that these cases may have more to do with society's lack of knowledge of mental health issues, rather than a lack of security. In case after case, family members, teachers and mental health professionals missed or dismissed signs of deterioration.
Whether they happen in a school, in a mall, in a crowded train or in a workplace, these crimes have been characterized in a language of incomprehension -- ''senseless,'' ''random,'' ''sudden,'' ''crazy.''
By contrast, murder in the heat of domestic passion or a tavern argument, in the desperation of armed robbery or in the cold calculation of gang competition, seems to make ''sense.''
But in reviewing court records and interviewing the police, victims and sometimes the killers themselves, The Times found that these killings, too, have their own logic, and are anything but random or sudden.
The rage that boiled over into homicide was clearly building in many. Of the 100 cases reviewed by The Times, 63 involved people who made threats of violence before the event, including 54 who threatened specific violence to specific people.
Richard Farley, for example, who was fired in 1987 for harassing a female co-worker, told acquaintances he was going to kill the people who had come between him and her before storming into his former workplace, killing seven. James Calvin Brady told psychiatrists he wanted to kill people, just days before he went on a rampage in an Atlanta shopping mall in 1990.
''These are not impulsive acts,'' said J. Reid Meloy, a forensic psychologist at the University of California at San Diego. ''They are not acts of affective violence, where they drink a lot and go kill someone. There's a planning and purpose, and an emotional detachment that's very long-term.''
Yet there was often a precipitating event in addition to histories of failure and mental illness -- a spark that set off the tinder, and gave the crime the appearance of being at the same time deliberate and impulsive.
''You can see someone who is morbidly depressed for a long time, and they have a suicide plan in place, but the timing is determined by impulse,'' said Kay Redfield Jamison, a professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and author of ''Night Falls Fast: Understanding Suicide'' (Knopf, 1999).
By far the most common precipitator was the loss of a job, which was mentioned as a potential precipitator in 47 cases. A romantic issue -- a divorce or breakup -- was present in 22 cases.
''Some men see the loss of a job, or the loss of a mate, as irrevocable and catastrophic, something they can't get back or attain again,'' said David Buss, author of ''The Dangerous Passion: Why Jealousy Is as Necessary as Love and Sex'' (Free Press, 2000) and a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. ''They set out on a course to inflict the maximum cost on their rivals, even sometimes killing the woman.''
An analysis of the database found several recurring elements in rampage killings, including some that surprised the experts.
Perhaps the aspect that most set these crimes apart, aside from their spectacular nature, was this: Regular criminals try to get away with their crimes. More than a third of regular homicides went unsolved in 1997. But among the 102 killers in the Times database, not one got away. Eighty-nine never even left the scene of the crime.
In 1995, for example, after he killed three people at the Ohio trucking company where he had worked, Gerald Lee Clemons walked to the parking lot and leaned against his car calmly until the police arrived.
In 1997, Michael Carneal, a 14-year-old, killed three and wounded five at a school in Louisville, Ky. Then he laid down his gun and said, ''I'm sorry.''
More tellingly, 33 of the offenders killed themselves after their crimes. Nine tried or wanted to commit suicide, and four killed themselves later. Nine were killed by the police or others, perhaps committing what some refer to as ''suicide by cop.''
''The number of people knowingly getting killed is striking,'' Prof. Alfred Blumstein of the Heinz School of Public Policy and Management at Carnegie Mellon University said after examining the review. Professor Blumstein is the director of the National Consortium on Violence Research.
Dr. Jamison said: ''The link between suicide and homicide is a very real one, and it hasn't been studied nearly enough. It has always struck me about Columbine, people forget they committed suicide. And that's understandable -- it was the least important thing from the public point of view.''
Anthony Barbaro, a 17-year-old Regents scholar in upstate Olean, N.Y., offered a glimpse into this suicidal impulse in the note he left before he hanged himself with a knotted bedsheet in the county jail. He was awaiting trial after firing random shots out the window from the third floor of his high school, killing two passers-by and a school custodian, and wounding nine others.
''I guess I just wanted to kill the person I hate most -- myself,'' he wrote. ''I just didn't have the courage. I wanted to die, but I couldn't do it, so I had to get someone to do it for me. It didn't work out.''
One of the most remarkable insights to emerge from the survey is how much these killers differ from the typical American murderer.
Half of all murderers in this country are black. Eighty percent went to high school, and no further. Most of them killed someone they knew, or while committing another crime, like a robbery.
The rampage killers, on the other hand, were white, by far, though 18 of the 102 were black, and 7 Asian. The racial profile of the rampage killers is close to that of the entire population.
The rampage killers were overwhelmingly male -- but not entirely. Six were female, and they exhibited many of the same disturbed, aggressive characteristics of the males. Here again, however, was a distinction from regular murderers, who are about twice as likely as rampage killers to be women.
The rampage killers were far more likely to have a military background, and to kill strangers. There are intriguing age differences as well. The rampage killers were older than regular murderers, with more in their 40's and 50's and fewer in their 20's, compared with the typical killer.
Of the rampage killers who were over 25, a third had college degrees. Another third had some college education. Only nine had less than a high school diploma.
And there seemed to be no urban bias for these crimes, as there is for other violent crimes; 31 were in suburban areas, 25 were in small towns or rural areas. Forty two of those surveyed committed their crimes in urban areas.
That profile -- a group that is largely suicidal, and shows few of the demographic patterns of poverty and race associated with regular crime -- suggests that mental illness plays a huge role, psychiatrists say.
''Mental illness does not vary in different races, but socioeconomics do,'' said Dr. Lothar Adler, director of a psychiatric hospital in Muhlhausen, Germany, and author of ''Amok,'' a book on multiple murder.
The Times found much evidence of mental illness in its subjects. More than half had histories of serious mental health problems -- either a hospitalization, a prescription for psychiatric drugs, a suicide attempt or evidence of psychosis.
Of the 24 who had been prescribed psychiatric drugs, 14 had stopped taking them when they committed their crimes. Mr. Clemons, for instance, ran out of drugs a week before his crime, according to relatives.
Recent studies have shown that the mentally ill are no more violent than other people, except when they are off their medications, or have been abusing drugs or alcohol.
Indications of mental illness were far more common among the 100 cases than was evidence supporting popular explanations that emerged in the days after some of these spectacular events. Violent video games or television were mentioned in only a handful of cases. Three killers showed an interest in the occult. Racist ideas were apparent in the backgrounds of 16.
But 48 killers had some kind of formal diagnosis, often schizophrenia. Some of the diagnoses came after examinations by psychiatrists in trial preparations -- which did not usually help in their defense, as only eight avoided conviction on grounds of insanity. Twenty-five killers received diagnoses before their crimes, which illustrates another recurring issue: They do not just suddenly snap. Many have long histories not only of mental illness but of failure and dislocation.
In spite of their education levels, for instance, a striking number -- more than half -- were unemployed.
''The high education level is one thing I hadn't anticipated, and the link to unemployment is another thing I didn't realize,'' Professor Blumstein said. ''One of the things that education does is raise expectations, and raised ones are more readily frustrated.''
For people without the emotional resources to accommodate it, frustration ''can lead to rage, can lead to suicide,'' Professor Blumstein said.
These crimes are not new. Public rampage killings first entered the national consciousness with Charles Whitman, who stood on the University of Texas's tower in 1966, firing his rifle at students, killing 14 people.
Nor are they peculiarly American. The best scientific thinking, in a field that is admittedly understudied, now holds that multiple, public murder occurs at a fairly constant level across time and cultures. What some people call ''running amok,'' a term first used in Malaysia to describe frenzied, indiscriminate killing, has been observed in many cultures, with weapons as varied as grenades and tanks in addition to high-powered handguns.
''Even though homicide rates and suicide rates are very different from country to country,'' said Peter M. Marzuk, a professor in the department of psychiatry at the Weill Medical College of Cornell University, ''the rates of murder-suicide are really the same throughout the world.''
Yet there is a strong impression that they have become more common. In an effort to confirm the trend, The Times analyzed F.B.I. reports of all homicides since 1976. Each year there were 15,000 to 22,000 homicides, but very few involved three or more victims.
That universe shrank even more, to just a few dozen, when The Times weeded out those involving robbery or gang violence, and those in which the primary victim was a family member.
What is left is the closest thing there is to a census of rampage killings -- about one-tenth of one percent of all killings.
And it shows that in the 1990's, they increased.
Their number remained fairly consistent from 1976 to 1989, averaging about 23 a year, only once going above 30. But between 1990 and 1997, the last year for which data was available, the number averaged over 34, dipping below 30 only once, in 1994.
''In the early 90's, for some reason, it increased, and seems to have a different level since,'' said Steven Messner, a criminologist at the State University of New York at Albany, who reviewed the numbers at the request of The Times.
There are many possible explanations. But the shift coincides, roughly at least, with a trend of increasing availability of more lethal weapons. In the late 1980's, the production of semiautomatic pistols in the United States overtook the production of revolvers, and with their larger ammunition magazines and faster reloading, semiautomatics have added to the potential for mayhem.
The effect may be apparent in the number of deaths per murderous incident, which suddenly increased in 1993 and has remained high since, according to the analysis of F.B.I. data by The Times.
''You have drastically increased the ability to inflict death and injury,'' said Tom Diaz, author of ''Making a Killing: The Business of Guns in America'' (New Press, 1999) and a senior policy analyst at the Violence Policy Center. ''That means you can shoot more rounds faster and easier, what they call spray and pray.''
In the Times study, wielders of semiautomatics inflicted more injuries. The ratio of maimed to killed victims was 50 percent higher than for those who used other weapons. Yet, the increased availability of high-powered weapons may not explain everything. Some kinds of multiple murder have declined or remained static. Killings of three or more people to cover up another felony, like robbery, have not increased, for example. Neither have multiple killings of relatives. The number of incidents in which three or more died and the principal victim was a family member has remained fairly steady, around 30 cases a year.
''It used to be the most common type of this violence was in the family,'' said James Alan Fox, author of ''Overkill: Mass Murder and Serial Killing Exposed'' (Dell, 1996) and one of the nation's foremost experts on mass murder. ''Now it's no longer true. It's in the workplace and in the schools.''
Experts believe the crimes may be feeding on each other, particularly in an era of saturation coverage by cable television. Fourteen of the killers expressed knowledge about their predecessors.
For example, Ladislav Antalik, a Czech immigrant who killed two former co-workers and then himself after being fired from his job in Research Triangle Park, N.C., in 1994, had a newspaper article in his car describing a previous massacre.
The Columbine killers talked of doing it bigger and better than it had been done before. William Kreutzer, known as Crazy Kreutzer, as he set out to mow down a company of soldiers at Fort Bragg with an assault rifle and a semiautomatic pistol, told a friend he knew what the record number of multiple killings was.
But beyond the question of whether one event triggered the next, experts say the recent increases in these crimes strongly suggest a social contagion.
''Why do you get a lot of people doing the same thing?'' said Joseph Westermeyer, a psychiatrist at the University of Minnesota who has studied epidemics of explosive murder in other cultures. ''I think there is this copycat element.''
Dr. Adler, in his book, documented two cases of soldiers running amok with a tank in Germany in the 1980's after a widely publicized tank attack there. Army security was increased, and ''tank amok never happened in Germany again,'' Dr. Adler said.
An angry, depressed, unstable, perhaps mentally ill person picks up a gun because it has become a known alternative. ''Something that was inconceivable to many people suddenly becomes conceivable,'' Dr. Messner said.
''The transmission mechanism seems to be nothing more or less than that it's an idea that's in the air,'' said Philip Cook, a professor of public policy at Duke University, who has studied social contagions. ''So you have these kind of catastrophic consequences from what seems a minor change in the environment.''
How the Study Was Conducted
The New York Times set out to study rampage killings by assembling a detailed database of as many such crimes as could be discovered by searching news clippings in all 50 states, scientific papers and other sources.
Times researchers and reporters found 100 cases that met strictly defined criteria aimed at encompassing the kind of crimes that seem to have become more common recently. The crimes had to have had multiple victims, at least one of whom died, and to have occurred substantially at one time and in a place where people gather -- a workplace, a school, a mall, a restaurant, a train. Multiple killings that were a result of domestic strife, robbery or political terrorism were excluded, as were serial killings.
Reporters and researchers reviewed newspaper articles and court transcripts, and interviewed prosecutors, victims, families and, when possible, the killers. Reporters recorded into a database more than 90 separate pieces of information on each crime, including age, mental health histories, victim relationships, weapons used, warning signs, location, time of day and criminal records.
Ford Fessenden, a database reporter at The Times, coordinated the research.
The 100 cases include 20 shootings at schools, 11 at restaurants or shopping malls and 32 at the killer's workplace. There were 102 killers. Four hundred twenty five people were killed and 510 injured.
In some cases, it was difficult to get precise information, as news accounts and even police reports varied. And while extensive efforts were made to be as complete as possible, there is no central list of multiple murders, and the database does not include every attack of this type over the last 50 years.
Still, the experts acknowledged it to be the largest and most detailed database devoted exclusively to such murders in the United States, and suggested it should be considered an initial step in a systematic study of a largely unexamined field.
''This should be seen as a way of starting the conversation and getting good social science going,'' said Franklin Zimring, director of the Earl Warren Legal Institute at the University of California at Berkeley.
''It's not science and shouldn't be addressed as science,'' said Alfred Blumstein, director of the National Consortium on Violence Research, who was shown The Times's findings. ''But I think it's aggressive and careful.''

[ChumpDumper]

I can assure you that the number of crackpots in the military is dwarfed by the number of crackpots in the general populace.Sheer numbers, sure. How about percentage-wise?

I think the political correctness angle falls flat if it's true that Hasan actively tried to get out of the service. It might be more of a matter of the armed forces' working to retain service members beyond the point of logic or safety at a time when manpower is at a premium.

[doobs]

he didn't want to go. time ran out on him.

a terrorist thats a Major would have waited till he got shipped out, then pull the ultimate act on muslim soil, and go out a hero.

If it's as simple as he didn't want to go, then why didn't he just kill himself?

Why do you think he tried to kill dozens of soldiers at a US base . . . and NOT kill himself?

Why would a jihadist prefer killing US troops overseas to killing US troops at a major Army base in the heart of America?

Or are you just making shit up?

[clambake]

If it's as simple as he didn't want to go, then why didn't he just kill himself?
maybe he was pissed.


Why do you think he tried to kill dozens of soldiers at a US base . . . and NOT kill himself?
maybe he was pissed....at the army.


Why would a jihadist prefer killing US troops overseas to killing US troops at a major Army base in the heart of America?
i don't know. why would he?


Or are you just making shit up?
i never said it was fact.

[doobs]

maybe he was pissed.


maybe he was pissed....at the army.


i don't know. why would he?


i never said it was fact.

So you're full of shit. OK.

[clambake]

So you're full of shit. OK.

so, you're on record as saying he wasn't pissed?

who's full of it?

[LnGrrrR]

Has anyone brought up the fact that this guy might have just been
insane? Good ol' fashioned crazy? We might not be able to ascribe a rational reason for his decision making.

[DarrinS]

Has anyone brought up the fact that this guy might have just been
insane? Good ol' fashioned crazy? We might not be able to ascribe a rational reason for his decision making.


IMO, people that have the urge to kill after seeing a cartoon of their favorite "invisible God" are, by definition crazy.

All evidence suggests that this guy is an Islamic extremist. Why is that such a difficult pill to swallow? I don't see how this is a left/right issue. If it turns out that this guy is just good ol' fashioned crazy (and not influenced one bit by his religious beliefs), then so be it.

[clambake]

he'll be in a military court, found guilty of crimes against the nation, and eventually executed.

that should be it.

[DarrinS]

Sheer numbers, sure. How about percentage-wise?

I think the political correctness angle falls flat if it's true that Hasan actively tried to get out of the service. It might be more of a matter of the armed forces' working to retain service members beyond the point of logic or safety at a time when manpower is at a premium.


I'm just curious. How many non-muslim Army officers have sprayed bullets into a crowd of their fellow soldiers before deployment?


This was Hasan's FIRST deployment. No PTSD applies.

[doobs]

so, you're on record as saying he wasn't pissed?

who's full of it?

You're an idiot.

[clambake]

I'm just curious. How many non-muslim Army officers have sprayed bullets into a crowd of their fellow soldiers before deployment?


This was Hasan's FIRST deployment. No PTSD applies.

why does it just have to be about officers?

[DarrinS]

why does it just have to be about officers?


Any non-mulslim of any rank from any branch of the military.

Is that general enough?

Got any examples?

[clambake]

Any non-mulslim of any rank from any branch of the military.

Is that general enough?

Got any examples?

yeah, it's called fragging.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm just curious. How many non-muslim Army officers have sprayed bullets into a crowd of their fellow soldiers before deployment?


This was Hasan's FIRST deployment. No PTSD applies.I never said it did, so you made a straw man.

[LnGrrrR]

IMO, people that have the urge to kill after seeing a cartoon of their favorite "invisible God" are, by definition crazy.

All evidence suggests that this guy is an Islamic extremist. Why is that such a difficult pill to swallow? I don't see how this is a left/right issue. If it turns out that this guy is just good ol' fashioned crazy (and not influenced one bit by his religious beliefs), then so be it.

I'm perfectly fine with him being crazy and killig for religious beliefs. I don't think the two are exclusive.

[LnGrrrR]

Additionally, even if he shouted "I'm killing everyone due to my religious beliefs!", I still don't think it would justify excluding Muslims from the military, anymore so that I would want to exclude scientologists, Christians, Jewish, or any other religious affiliated person.

[panic giraffe]

Additionally, even if he shouted "I'm killing everyone due to my religious beliefs!", I still don't think it would justify excluding Muslims from the military, anymore so that I would want to exclude scientologists, Christians, Jewish, or any other religious affiliated person.

but yet you still can't be an open and practicing satanist damnit!

[sook]

I'm just curious. How many non-muslim Army officers have sprayed bullets into a crowd of their fellow soldiers before deployment?


This was Hasan's FIRST deployment. No PTSD applies.

Have you ever taken a psychology/ statistics course...ever?

Whats the number one rule when making conjectures?


CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION.


Just because a lot of terrorists are muslims, and you find that "A" is present along with "B" killing doesn't mean that in this case A causes B to happen.

Its a multitude of things. There are millions of muslims in the U.S how often have you heard of them doing this? What holds them back? The same thing that holds everybody else back, sanity. If he did in fact act on this b.c of his religon, then just about every one of the million muslims should act this way as well.

We are all humans. We don't like to kill our own kind, take our own life, and throw everything we ever worked for down the drain. That is a universal interest. A person in good conditions will not do that, which is why you see it in poorer countries. Everybody living in this nation has been blessed with living such a high life style that they are above all that. For a person to do this they would have to InFuckingSane.

[jack sommerset]

Politics have made it too easy on the criminals. That my friends is a fact. It rains hardcore in this case.

[ChumpDumper]

Politics have made it too easy on the criminals. That my friends is a fact. It rains hardcore in this case.How? Everyone here says he is going to get the death penalty.

[jack sommerset]

How? Everyone here says he is going to get the death penalty.

"How,how,how" you little whinny bitch.:lol

He should have been kicked out. TONS of reasons why. You go google them and put the pieces together. I'm going to fuck my wife. Good night.

[ChumpDumper]

"How,how,how" you little whinny bitch.:lol

He should have been kicked out. TONS of reasons why. You go google them and put the pieces together. I'm going to fuck my wife. Good night.My condolences to her.

If there was a law or policy he clearly broke before the Ft. Hood tragedy, you should say what it is. I'm sure you can't since you are incapable of making any real argument. I think he should have been allowed to leave if, as it has been reported, he asked to leave.

[Ignignokt]

My condolences to her.

If there was a law or policy he clearly broke before the Ft. Hood tragedy, you should say what it is. I'm sure you can't since you are incapable of making any real argument. I think he should have been allowed to leave if, as it has been reported, he asked to leave.

He wanted to leave.. how's that?

[ChumpDumper]

He wanted to leave.. how's that?If there is a law against wanting to leave, I haven't seen it.

[sook]

If there is a law against wanting to leave, I haven't seen it.

you satirical fucking bastard :lmao


Why do you have to play these games :ihit

[Wild Cobra]

I'm just curious. How many non-muslim Army officers have sprayed bullets into a crowd of their fellow soldiers before deployment?


This was Hasan's FIRST deployment. No PTSD applies.

Well, I heard on the news this morning the authorities are leaning towards him acting as a Jihadist. I guess they are uncovering some damning evidence on him.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I don't get the faux outrage by the resident dead enders. Clearly the guy is guilty and will pay for actions. What else is there to say? I know these morons want to make an issue out of it, but the guy will pay for this. Unlike the conservatives on this board I choose to wait until more informaiton becomes clear and verified before I run down the street yelling he's a terrorist and victim of political correctness.

[Cry Havoc]

This forum is pretty worthless right now outside a few posters like Winehole.

Seriously. There is so much idiocy being thrown around that it makes this thread maddening to read.

[DarrinS]

Have you ever taken a psychology/ statistics course...ever?

Whats the number one rule when making conjectures?


CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION.


Just because a lot of terrorists are muslims, and you find that "A" is present along with "B" killing doesn't mean that in this case A causes B to happen.

Its a multitude of things. There are millions of muslims in the U.S how often have you heard of them doing this? What holds them back? The same thing that holds everybody else back, sanity. If he did in fact act on this b.c of his religon, then just about every one of the million muslims should act this way as well.

We are all humans. We don't like to kill our own kind, take our own life, and throw everything we ever worked for down the drain. That is a universal interest. A person in good conditions will not do that, which is why you see it in poorer countries. Everybody living in this nation has been blessed with living such a high life style that they are above all that. For a person to do this they would have to InFuckingSane.



As of May, 2009, there are 1,445,000 active duty military personnel. In this population, there are about 3500 muslims, or 0.24 percent. Of that very tiny fraction, there have been three separate incidents of "unfriendly" fire. That's not a very promising statistic.

[DarrinS]

An interesting graphic

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/NA-BB809_MILMUS_NS_20091106191616.gif

[DarrinS]

Even meek, mild-manored RINO, David Brooks, thinks the media whitewashed this attack.

The Rush to Therapy (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/opinion/10brooks.html?_r=1)





We’re all born late. We’re born into history that is well under way. We’re born into cultures, nations and languages that we didn’t choose. On top of that, we’re born with certain brain chemicals and genetic predispositions that we can’t control. We’re thrust into social conditions that we detest. Often, we react in ways we regret even while we’re doing them.

But unlike the other animals, people do have a drive to seek coherence and meaning. We have a need to tell ourselves stories that explain it all. We use these stories to supply the metaphysics, without which life seems pointless and empty.

Among all the things we don’t control, we do have some control over our stories. We do have a conscious say in selecting the narrative we will use to make sense of the world. Individual responsibility is contained in the act of selecting and constantly revising the master narrative we tell about ourselves.

The stories we select help us, in turn, to interpret the world. They guide us to pay attention to certain things and ignore other things. They lead us to see certain things as sacred and other things as disgusting. They are the frameworks that shape our desires and goals. So while story selection may seem vague and intellectual, it’s actually very powerful. The most important power we have is the power to help select the lens through which we see reality.

Most people select stories that lead toward cooperation and goodness. But over the past few decades a malevolent narrative has emerged.

That narrative has emerged on the fringes of the Muslim world. It is a narrative that sees human history as a war between Islam on the one side and Christianity and Judaism on the other. This narrative causes its adherents to shrink their circle of concern. They don’t see others as fully human. They come to believe others can be blamelessly murdered and that, in fact, it is admirable to do so.

This narrative is embraced by a small minority. But it has caused incredible amounts of suffering within the Muslim world, in Israel, in the U.S. and elsewhere. With their suicide bombings and terrorist acts, adherents to this narrative have made themselves central to global politics. They are the ones who go into crowded rooms, shout “Allahu akbar,” or “God is great,” and then start murdering.

When Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan did that in Fort Hood, Tex., last week, many Americans had an understandable and, in some ways, admirable reaction. They didn’t want the horror to become a pretext for anti-Muslim bigotry.

So immediately the coverage took on a certain cast. The possibility of Islamic extremism was immediately played down. This was an isolated personal breakdown, not an ideological assault, many people emphasized.

Major Hasan was portrayed as a disturbed individual who was under a lot of stress. We learned about pre-traumatic stress syndrome, and secondary stress disorder, which one gets from hearing about other people’s stress. We heard the theory (unlikely in retrospect) that Hasan was so traumatized by the thought of going into a combat zone that he decided to take a gun and create one of his own.

A shroud of political correctness settled over the conversation. Hasan was portrayed as a victim of society, a poor soul who was pushed over the edge by prejudice and unhappiness.

There was a national rush to therapy. Hasan was a loner who had trouble finding a wife and socializing with his neighbors.

This response was understandable. It’s important to tamp down vengeful hatreds in moments of passion. But it was also patronizing. Public commentators assumed the air of kindergarten teachers who had to protect their children from thinking certain impermissible and intolerant thoughts. If public commentary wasn’t carefully policed, the assumption seemed to be, then the great mass of unwashed yahoos in Middle America would go off on a racist rampage.

Worse, it absolved Hasan — before the real evidence was in — of his responsibility. He didn’t have the choice to be lonely or unhappy. But he did have a choice over what story to build out of those circumstances. And evidence is now mounting to suggest he chose the extremist War on Islam narrative that so often leads to murderous results.

The conversation in the first few days after the massacre was well intentioned, but it suggested a willful flight from reality. It ignored the fact that the war narrative of the struggle against Islam is the central feature of American foreign policy. It ignored the fact that this narrative can be embraced by a self-radicalizing individual in the U.S. as much as by groups in Tehran, Gaza or Kandahar.

It denied, before the evidence was in, the possibility of evil. It sought to reduce a heinous act to social maladjustment. It wasn’t the reaction of a morally or politically serious nation.

[DarrinS]

Hasan's 50-PAGE PowerPoint presentation

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/gallery/2009/11/10/GA2009111000920.html?sid=ST2009110903704

[admiralsnackbar]

Even meek, mild-manored RINO, David Brooks, thinks the media whitewashed this attack.

The Rush to Therapy (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/opinion/10brooks.html?_r=1)


I don't have a problem with much of what this guy says: the media has depicted the situation as a crazy rampage before all the facts were in.

In their defense, if this were a terrorist attack, you have to wonder what the strategic purpose of killing the victims was. I don't want to diminish the tragedy of their murder but it doesn't seem the victims were symbolically meaningful, so there's grounds for the assumption that this was an isolated incident.

[EmptyMan]

lol @ Obama using harsher language about the Tiller Adult Abortion than the conehead.

[admiralsnackbar]

lol @ Obama using harsher language about the Tiller Adult Abortion than the conehead.

Are you surprised? One murderer clearly belonged to a terrorist movement, another doesn't yet appear to.

[DarrinS]

lol @ Obama using harsher language about the Tiller Adult Abortion than the conehead.


Actually, I was quite pleased with what Obama said about this. He was much harsher than the willingly blind MSM.

Obama also seemed to acknowledge what many on this forum will not.




It may be hard to comprehend the twisted logic that led to this tragedy. But this much we do know - no faith justifies these murderous and craven acts; no just and loving God looks upon them with favor. And for what he has done, we know that the killer will be met with justice - in this world, and the next.

[clambake]

everyone but you understands that, darrin.

[DarrinS]

I would add that the media was much quicker to point out the religious and/or political beliefs of the man who "assasssinated" George Tiller. They were even willing to make Bill O'Reilly an accomplice.

The media also quickly latched onto the "right-wing" political philosphy of that Von Brunn dude that shot the security guard at the Holocaust museum -- ignoring the fact that the man was a 911 twoofer and dispised the Bush-Cheney admin.

[clambake]

darrin likes to argue with himself.

[admiralsnackbar]

I would add that the media was much quicker to point out the religious and/or political beliefs of the man who "assasssinated" George Tiller. They were even willing to make Bill O'Reilly an accomplice.
Again, because Tiller's murderer fell within a direct and demonstrable sphere of influence from day 1, and because this particular sphere of influence has high visibility in this country and is associated with hot-button political issues. As far as we know so far, the Ft. Hood shooter was curious about Muslim extremism, but not explicitly involved with the movement.



The media also quickly latched onto the "right-wing" political philosphy of that Von Brunn dude that shot the security guard at the Holocaust museum -- ignoring the fact that the man was a 911 twoofer and dispised the Bush-Cheney admin.

I don't care how you shuck it, man -- neo-nazis are classified as right-wingers by most. There was no journalistic failure in the coverage of Von Brunn.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Actually, I was quite pleased with what Obama said about this. He was much harsher than the willingly blind MSM.

Obama also seemed to acknowledge what many on this forum will not.

many of us choose to wait until all of the facts are in before jumping to a conclusion. I know that's a foreign concept to the obama haters so it may be difficult for you , or the other dead enders for that matter, to understand this.

[doobs]

That poor Marine who attacked the Greek priest must have been suffering from PTSD.

[Winehole23]

That poor Marine who attacked the Greek priest must have been suffering from PTSD.'Roid rage would seem to be the hasty conclusion in this case.

[doobs]

'Roid rage would seem to be the hasty conclusion in this case.

Poor guy.

[MannyIsGod]

Obama also seemed to acknowledge what many on this forum will not.

:lol

What part of that is unacknowledged by most here?

[MannyIsGod]

So I looked over the slides, I don't see what would paint him a religious extremist based on those slides.

[clambake]

they can't find comfort without the label, manny.

[DarrinS]

So I looked over the slides, I don't see what would paint him a religious extremist based on those slides.

None so blind as those who will not see

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/reality/2004/images/1002/monkey3.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Maybe you can explain it to me then Darrin.

[DarrinS]

Maybe you can explain it to me then Darrin.


Well, for starters, he was supposed to giving a medical presentation and instead presented that.

According to those in attendence, when he was challeneged on some of his ideas, he was visibly upset and just stared the person down.

I like what it says on slide 46 (or is it 48?).


"We love death more than you love life."

Who is "we"?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not talking about the presentation Darrin. I'm not able to see what he or others said in those slides, am I? When I look at the slides I don't get some sort of video camera into the actual presentation, do I?

As for the we love death, I believe that is a quote or a misquoted Osama Bin Laden saying. If its attributable to Hasan then more depends on the context of what he was trying to say, but if its just a quote then in the reference of the other slides he's framing how Muslims may view the war.

Its quite possible the entire presentation was given not out of religious extremism but out of a desire to not server given what he viewed as a personal conflict. In fact given the presentation and the aftermath, I find that far more likely.

[DarrinS]

Its quite possible the entire presentation was given not out of religious extremism but out of a desire to not serve given what he viewed as a personal conflict. In fact given the presentation and the aftermath, I find that far more likely.


Then he should have declared himself a conciensious objector rather than yelling out "Allahu Akbar" and murdering 13 people.

Actually, a true conciensious objector would have difficulty murdering anyone.

[DarrinS]

Manny,


If something looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, why are you so reluctant to say it's probably a duck?

[MannyIsGod]

Then he should have declared himself a conciensious objector rather than yelling out "Allahu Akbar" and murdering 13 people.

Actually, a true conciensious objector would have difficulty murdering anyone.

I agree Darrin, he should have taken a different route and not killed anyone. Really, that's an amazing stance you've brought up.

I wonder if we can get others to agree that Hasan murdering people was bad?

[MannyIsGod]

I should know better by now. I know you're incapable of having a nuanced conversation so why am I surprised when we're discussing a group of slides and you jump to WELL MURDER IS BAD?

[MannyIsGod]

Manny,


If something looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, why are you so reluctant to say it's probably a duck?

Because I want to actually see if its a duck. Why are you in such a hurry to call it a duck? Does it change anything? Are the victims any less dead? Why is the discussion focused on Hasan and not on what the Army may have failed to do?

[jack sommerset]

Why is the discussion focused on Hasan and not on what the Army may have failed to do?

Army equals government. Our politicians have failed us not the Army.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Army equals government. Our politicians have failed us not the Army.

The Army dropped the ball jack. it happens..it's ok.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Manny,


If something looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, why are you so reluctant to say it's probably a duck?

why are you so reluctant to wait until all of the facts are out before making stupid claims?

[admiralsnackbar]

Army equals government. Our politicians have failed us not the Army.
Is anybody else having trouble understanding this statement?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Is anybody else having trouble understanding this statement?

He rarely makes much sense in fact he's taken aback how politicians don't live up to their campaign promises. he's short bus special.. but we love him nonetheless

[johnsmith]

I still fail to understand why it's anyone elses fault other then the crazy guy that shot everyone?

We have an accountability issue in this country.

[DarrinS]

Because I want to actually see if its a duck. Why are you in such a hurry to call it a duck?

If I smell smoke in my house, my fire alarm goes off, and then I see flames outside my window, I might just think there's a fire -- but that's just me.



Does it change anything? Are the victims any less dead? Why is the discussion focused on Hasan and not on what the Army may have failed to do?


The Army made mistakes -- the main one being that they couldn't recognize Hasan for what he is. There's that saying, what is it, something about connecting the dots?

By the way, calling the 911 hijackers jihadists, islamic extremists, or terrorists doesn't change 911 and doesn't make the victims of 911 any less dead. BUT, learning to recognize our enemy may prevent future terrorist attacks and that is PRECISELY the point.

[DarrinS]

I still fail to understand why it's anyone elses fault other then the crazy guy that shot everyone?

We have an accountability issue in this country.


It's the feminization and psycho-babble-ization of America, and, more specifically, the American left.

[Cry Havoc]

Army equals government. Our politicians have failed us not the Army.

Uh. Wow. :wow

[ChumpDumper]

It's the feminization and psycho-babble-ization of America, and, more specifically, the American left.:lmao let's work in some more buzzwords that mean nothing. It's a nice replacement for actual analysis.

[ChumpDumper]

I still fail to understand why it's anyone elses fault other then the crazy guy that shot everyone?

We have an accountability issue in this country.The right is desperately trying to politicize this and make the left accountable. Darrin's posts prove it.

[jack sommerset]

He rarely makes much sense in fact he's taken aback how politicians don't live up to their campaign promises. he's short bus special.. but we love him nonetheless

:lmao You are so fucking stupid, it is not even funny! I hope you are just some douchebags troll. But the fact is, there are dumbasses like you out there.

It's easy to understand. Our Army does what our government wants. You get that part, right. Lets say it again. Our Army does what our government wants. (makes the CIA BS Obama is doing even more stupid everyday)

This douchebag should have never been in the Army. BUT the politicians make the rules and they had no choice but to put him in and as they learn about him, keep him!. Could you imagine a German in the US Army durning WWII saying " I am German first"

"Lets let the fat ass become a police officer even though he can't run" :lol

"Lets not give anyone a promotion because no minorities past the test."

This thinking makes our country weak! Dumbass.

[Oh, Gee!!]

You could conclude that the act was an act of terrorism given that:
[A] he commited a dangerous act or crime (mass murder)
[B] against civilians/non-combatants (enlisted men at home, not armed, and not yet deployed for battle)
[C] with the apparent intent to cause a shift in policy (to force the US Army to change its current policy on non-deployment of Muslim enlisted men who like the shooter would ask not to be forced to fight other Muslims).

[ChumpDumper]

Could you imagine a German in the US Army durning WWII saying " I am German first" I see Christians often proclaiming God before country. That's no excuse for Hasan's actions, but it is true.

[DarrinS]

The right is desperately trying to politicize this and make the left accountable. Darrin's posts prove it.



Your problem is -- you can't read, you stupid fuck.


I was addressing johnsmith's point about there being a lack of accountability in this country, specifically PERSONAL accountability.

[jack sommerset]

I see Christians often proclaiming God before country. That's no excuse for Hasan's actions, but it is true.

It does not bother you 13 are dead and many more hurt because of this radical muslim. Real nice there buddy.

[spursncowboys]

Who knows maybe Hasan in thirty years will hold a fundraiser for a future President.

[ChumpDumper]

Your problem is -- you can't read, you stupid fuck.


I was addressing johnsmith's point about there being a lack of accountability in this country, specifically PERSONAL accountability.Nah, you're the one who can't read.

I said posts.

with an S.

That means more than one post.

[ChumpDumper]

It does not bother you 13 are dead and many more hurt because of this radical muslim. Real nice there buddy.Straw man.

I never said I was not bothered by this.

Real nice there buddy.

Are you a Christian? Do you puit God before country?

I know you won't answer.

[ChumpDumper]

Who knows maybe Hasan in thirty years will hold a fundraiser for a future President.No he won't.

You're an idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

http://checkuptoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/God-family-community-country-300x225.jpg

According to jack, the man holding this sign needs to be investigated and definitely never allowed into the armed forces.

There were definite reasons to investigate Hasan, but just saying he put God before country isn't one of them -- unless you believe in double standards.

[DarrinS]

Very good article.


Dr. Phil and the Fort Hood Killer (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574525831785724114.html?m od=rss_com_mostcommentart)





It can by now come as no surprise that the Fort Hood massacre yielded an instant flow of exculpatory media meditations on the stresses that must have weighed on the killer who mowed down 13 Americans and wounded 29 others. Still, the intense drive to wrap this clear case in a fog of mystery is eminently worthy of notice.

The tide of pronouncements and ruminations pointing to every cause for this event other than the one obvious to everyone in the rational world continues apace. Commentators, reporters, psychologists and, indeed, army spokesmen continue to warn portentously, "We don't yet know the motive for the shootings."

What a puzzle this piece of vacuity must be to audiences hearing it, some, no doubt, with outrage. To those not terrorized by fear of offending Muslim sensitivities, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's motive was instantly clear: It was an act of terrorism by a man with a record of expressing virulent, anti-American, pro-jihadist sentiments. All were conspicuous signs of danger his Army superiors chose to ignore.

What is hard to ignore, now, is the growing derangement on all matters involving terrorism and Muslim sensitivities. Its chief symptoms: a palpitating fear of discomfiting facts and a willingness to discard those facts and embrace the richest possible variety of ludicrous theories as to the motives behind an act of Islamic terrorism. All this we have seen before but never in such naked form. The days following the Fort Hood rampage have told us more than we want to know, perhaps, about the depth and reach of this epidemic.

One of the first outbreaks of these fevers, the night of the shootings, featured television's star psychologist, Dr. Phil, who was outraged when fellow panelist and former JAG officer Tom Kenniff observed that he had been listening to a lot of psychobabble and evasions about Maj. Hasan's motives.

A shocked Dr. Phil, appalled that the guest had publicly mentioned Maj. Hasan's Islamic identity, went on to present what was, in essence, the case for Maj. Hasan as victim. Victim of deployment, of the Army, of the stresses of a new kind of terrible war unlike any other we have known. Unlike, can he have meant, the kind endured by those lucky Americans who fought and died at Iwo Jima, say, or the Ardennes?

It was the same case to be presented, in varying forms, by guest psychologists, the media, and a representative or two from the military, for days on end.

The quality and thrust of this argument was best captured by the impassioned Dr. Phil, who asked us to consider, "how far out of touch with reality do you have to be to kill your fellow Americans . . . this is not a well act." And how far out of touch with reality is such a question, one asks in return—not only of Dr. Phil, but of the legions of commentators like him immersed in the labyrinths of motive hunting even as the details of Maj. Hasan's proclivities became ever clearer and more ominous.

To kill your fellow Americans—as many as possible, unarmed and in the most helpless of circumstances, while shouting "Allahu Akbar" (God is great), requires, of course, only murderous hatred—the sort of mindset that regularly eludes the Dr. Phils of our world as the motive for mass murder of this kind.

As the meditations on Maj. Hasan's motives rolled on, "fear of deployment" has served as a major theme—one announced as fact in the headline for the New York Times's front-page story: "Told of War Horror, Gunman Feared Deployment." The authority for this intelligence? The perpetrator's cousin. No story could have better suited that newspaper's ongoing preoccupation with the theme of madness in our fighting men, and the deadly horrors of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, than this story of a victim of war pressures gone berserk. The one fly in the ointment—Maj. Hasan had of course seen no war, and no combat.

Still, with a bit of stretching, adherents of Maj. Hasan-as-war-victim theme found a substitute of sorts—namely the fears allegedly provoked in him by his exposure, as an army psychiatrist, to the stories of men who had been deployed. The thesis then: Maj. Hasan's mental stress, provoked by the suffering of Americans who had been in combat, caused him to go out and butcher as many of these soldiers as he could. Let's try putting that one before a jury.

By Sunday morning, Gen. George Casey Jr., Army chief of staff, confronted questions put to him by ABC's George Stephanopolous—among them the matter of the complaints about Maj. Hasan's anti-American tirades that were made by fellow students in military classes, as well as other danger signs ignored by officials when they were reported, apparently for fear of offense to a Muslim member of the military.

These were speculations, Gen. Casey repeatedly cautioned. We need to be very careful, he explained, "We are a very diverse army." Mr. Stephanopolous then helpfully summarized matters: This case then was either a case of premeditated terror—or the man just snapped.

The general was not about to address such questions. He was there to recite the required pieties, and describe the military priorities . . . which are, it appears, a concern above all for the sensitivities of a diverse army, a concern so great as to render even the mention of salient facts out of order, as "speculation.'" "This terrible event," Gen. Casey noted, "would be an even greater tragedy if our diversity becomes a casualty."

To hear this, and numerous other such pronouncements of recent days, was to be reminded of all those witnesses to the suspicious behavior of the 9/11 hijackers who held their tongues for fear of being charged with discrimination. It has taken Maj. Hasan, and the fantastic efforts to explain away his act of bloody hatred, to bring home how much less capable we are of recognizing the dangers confronting us than we were even before September 11.

[DarrinS]

Nah, you're the one who can't read.

I said posts.

with an S.

That means more than one post.


Nice edit.

I still haven't blamed the left for this atrocity. I just don't like how they're whitewashing it.

[ChumpDumper]

Nice edit.
It wasn't an edit. You quoted the plural.

Nice try.

[DarrinS]

Who knows maybe Hasan in thirty years will hold a fundraiser for a future President.

Or ghost write a book for him.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Very good article.


Dr. Phil and the Fort Hood Killer (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574525831785724114.html?m od=rss_com_mostcommentart)

This is an opinion piece? Oh wait, that's all conservatives need. Never mind..

[DarrinS]

It wasn't an edit. You quoted the plural.

Nice try.


Did you find the post(s) where I implicate the left for the killings at Ford Hood?

[ChumpDumper]

You guys will never miss a chance to try to tie this to Obama, will you?

[ChumpDumper]

Did you find the post(s) where I implicate the left for the killings at Ford Hood?Did you not mention political correctness as a factor is his not being investigated?

[DarrinS]

This is an opinion piece? Oh wait, that's all conservatives need. Never mind..


There's nothing wrong with op-eds. Do you have a specific problem with the arguments made? Or are you just babbling?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Nice edit.

I still haven't blamed the left for this atrocity. I just don't like how they're whitewashing it.

who's whitewashing--there's a difference between waiting for facts and equivocating

[DarrinS]

Did you not mention political correctness as a factor is his not being investigated?


Well, the political correctness was in place during the Bush years -- this guy was sending out red flags since 2007. So, I could just as easily blame the right.

But, if you've been paying attention, what's really to blame is an individual's adherence to a twisted, evil form of Islam.

Am I being too vague?

[rjv]

amazing how much more conclusive some of the posters on this forum are. perhaps they should turn over all the evidence they have to the FBI and military so as to speed along their investigations.

[DarrinS]

who's whitewashing--there's a difference between waiting for facts and equivocating


CNN and MSNBC were discussing PTSD before the shooter was even identified. Did they wait for facts?

[Oh, Gee!!]

CNN and MSNBC were discussing PTSD before the shooter was even identified. Did they wait for facts?

Were they discussing possibilities, or were they saying that a the shooting was caused by PTSD? If they were assuming PTSD, then I agree with you that it was bad journalism. I think that at first nobody really knew any specifics about the shooter's identity at all, so I doubt CNN and MSNBC would go out on a limb and commit to the shooting being caused by PTSD.

[jack sommerset]

Straw man.

I never said I was not bothered by this.

Real nice there buddy.

Are you a Christian? Do you puit God before country?

I know you won't answer.

You are wrong again, pussy. :lol

I have told you this before, I am not religious. My country comes first.

You have to know you are very annoying. We all know this is just a game to you. You take peoples opinions and try to break them down in order to support your boy Obama. You hide behind this fact. You will say anything to anyone to get them to play your game.

I will speak for myself, I will answer your dumbass questions if I want to. You being a little whinny bitch is besides the point.

[iilluzioN]

I think we need to gather up all the muslims in the world and nuke them

[jack sommerset]

I think we need to gather up all the muslims in the world and nuke them

You should never ever post a pic of yourself again. You are one ugly looking queer.

[admiralsnackbar]

I think we need to gather up all the muslims in the world and nuke them

Spoken like a true imbecile.

[Oh, Gee!!]

You should never ever post a pic of yourself again. You are one ugly looking queer.

no shit. nice gosselin hair, illusional

[ChumpDumper]

You are wrong again, pussy. :lol

I have told you this before, I am not religious. My country comes first.Before God? OK.

So you do believe that anyone that puts God before country should be investigated and not allowed into the armed forces.


You have to know you are very annoying. We all know this is just a game to you. You take peoples opinions and try to break them down in order to support your boy Obama. You hide behind this fact. You will say anything to anyone to get them to play your game.Nah, he's not my boy. I just see horrible weaknesses and double-standards in your arguments, so they are easy to point out.


I will speak for myself, I will answer your dumbass questions if I want to. You being a little whinny bitch is besides the point.thanks for being a whiny bitch when it comes to answering questions.

[jack sommerset]

Before God? OK.

So you do believe that anyone that puts God before country should be investigated and not allowed into the armed forces.

Nah, he's not my boy. I just see horrible weaknesses and double-standards in your arguments, so they are easy to point out.

thanks for being a whiny bitch when it comes to answering questions.

You are wrong dumbass. Again I am so glad you are giving an opinion other than asking more questions. :toast But you are wrong. I never said God before country. I don't believe in God. What a stupid conclusion and Obama is your boy.


Again, speaking for myself, I am not here for you. If I don't want to answer one of your 100,000 questions, I am not. I am telling you I don't answer every fucking question you give (i'm having a meltdown,haha) because you are annoying and you never stop asking and even when I do you ask again. And they just keep coming player.:lol

[spursncowboys]

Not all religion is the same. Christians don't teach hate. If a Christian does something in the name of Jesus, Christian leadership will denounce it. Not the case with Muslims.

[admiralsnackbar]

Not all religion is the same. Christians don't teach hate. If a Christian does something in the name of Jesus, Christian leadership will denounce it. Not the case with Muslims.

Bullshit.

[spursncowboys]

Bullshit.

Good job.

[admiralsnackbar]

Good job.

I suppose you expect me to parse the ignorance of your statement for you?

Tell you what: find a muslim, share your enlightened position with them, then come back and tell us what you learned from the experience.

[spursncowboys]

I suppose you expect me to parse the ignorance of your statement for you?

Tell you what: find a muslim, share your enlightened position with them, then come back and tell us what you learned from the experience.

ignorant people like yourself should stop compounding all religions into one group.

[admiralsnackbar]

ignorant people like yourself should stop compounding all religions into one group.

What? :lol

Kindly find a place where I've suggested any such thing. I took issue with your abysmal failure in describing Islam, but that's different than what you're bringing up here.

[jacobdrj]

Tragedy.

[hope4dopes]

Bullshit. wanna flesh that out a bit.

[Winehole23]

ignorant people like yourself should stop compounding all religions into one group.Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Three Abrahamic traditions.

Why such contention throughout history between the three?






The narcissicism of small differences.

[ChumpDumper]

You are wrong dumbass. Again I am so glad you are giving an opinion other than asking more questions. :toast But you are wrong. I never said God before country. I don't believe in God.So you think anyone who puts God before country should be investigated and not allowed to enter the armed forces.

OK


What a stupid conclusion and Obama is your boy.Nope.



Again, speaking for myself, I am not here for you. If I don't want to answer one of your 100,000 questions, I am not. I am telling you I don't answer every fucking question you give (i'm having a meltdown,haha) because you are annoying and you never stop asking and even when I do you ask again. And they just keep coming player.:lolAgain, thanks for whining like a bitch at simple questions.

[johnsmith]

Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Three Abrahamic traditions.

Why such contention throughout history between the three?






The narcissicism of small differences.

I think Bart Simpson said it best in the episode that he becomes Catholic:


Easy on the zeal Churchos… I've got something to say. Don't you get it? It's all Christianity, people! The little stupid differences are nothing next to the big stupid similarities!

[DarrinS]

Fort Hood suspect contacted Muslim extremists (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/12/officials-say-fort-hood-suspect-had-islamist-ties/)





Fort Hood shooting suspect Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan had been in contact with numerous Muslim extremists -- some of whom are under federal investigation -- before last week's rampage, two U.S. officials told The Washington Times on Wednesday.

Maj. Hasan made some of the contacts while visiting known jihadist chat rooms on the Internet, according to one of The Times' sources, a senior FBI official. He said that several people with whom Maj. Hasan was in contact had been the focus of investigations by the FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force.

The other source, a military intelligence official, said those in contact with Maj. Hasan are located both in the U.S. and overseas. The official said they are "broadly known and characterized as Islamic extremists if not necessarily al Qaeda."

Both officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case, said some of the names of those with whom Maj. Hasan was in contact will likely be released soon.

The FBI official said that could happen during pending congressional hearings into the massacre.

These ties are in addition to Maj. Hasan's already-reported links to radical Imam Anwar al-Awlaki, who called Maj. Hasan a "hero" on a blog post about last week's Fort Hood shooting, which left 13 dead and 29 wounded.

The military intelligence official said, "Those connections, except for Awlaki, could be explained innocently. But all of them together form a very concerning picture."

"I may run into contact with shady people through coincidence, through social events, etc.," he said. "But at some point you start saying like, 'Huh? Why are you coming in contact with all these charming people?' "

Questions still lingered Wednesday over whether more should have been done in response to Maj. Hasan's contacts with Mr. al-Awlaki, who served as the imam at mosques in San Diego and in Falls Church -- both of which were attended by Maj. Hasan.

Mr. al-Awlaki, who now lives in Yemen, was in contact with Maj. Hasan as many as 20 times beginning in December 2008, according to the FBI.

A Joint Terrorism Task Force knew about the contacts because it had Mr. al-Awlaki's communications under surveillance.

Several senior investigative officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity earlier this week, said the task force conducted a "preliminary assessment" into Maj. Hasan but didn't open a full-fledged investigation because the contacts were innocuous.

They said the contacts related to research that Maj. Hasan was doing in his job as a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center last year.

The task force never formally told the Pentagon about Maj. Hasan's contact with Mr. al-Awlaki because the content of the e-mails did not relate to terrorism or other crimes.

Several news organizations, including the Associated Press and the Wall Street Journal, cited anonymous Pentagon officials on Wednesday as saying they never learned of the al-Awlaki contacts from the task force.

The task force includes an active military member, though another senior official involved in the investigation said that neither the military member nor any other person on the task force requested permission to tell the Pentagon's top leadership about the contacts.

FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III has ordered a full review of the case. An FBI statement issued Tuesday said the review will "determine all of the facts and circumstances related to this tragedy and whether, with the benefit of hindsight, any policies or practices should change based on what we learn."

A retired FBI agent said the case highlights an underlying problem vexing terrorism investigations.

"The further we get away from 9/11, the less on guard as a nation we become," said Ken Piernick, who worked as an acting chief in one of the FBI's counterterrorism sections.

Mr. Piernick said he suspects that investigators have become fatigued after years of chasing down countless tidbits of information and now may look at tips with less scrutiny.

"The problem with that is the concept of 'hiding in plain sight' and a bunch of things come into play," he said.

ABC News first reported Wednesday that Maj. Hasan had "more unexplained connections" to people being tracked by the FBI in addition to Mr. al-Awlaki.

Although the FBI has dismissed the e-mails between Maj. Hasan and Mr. al-Awlaki as "explainable," the imam has been under investigation by U.S. authorities for several years. He was identified shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon as the "spiritual adviser" of two of the terrorist hijackers, Nawaf Alhamzi and Hani Hanjour.

Alhamzi, a Saudi national admitted to the United States on a tourist visa in January 2001, and Hanjour, also a Saudi national admitted to the country in December 2000 on a student visa, had listened to Mr. al-Awlaki preach at the Masjid Al Ribat Al Islami mosque in San Diego and the Dar al-Hijrah Islamic Center in Falls Church.

Maj. Hasan also had attended the San Diego mosque in 2001 to hear Mr. al-Awlaki preach, and later turned up at the Falls Church mosque, although it is unclear whether he met with Alhamzi or Hanjour.

Maj. Hasan who is recovering from gunshot wounds -- a civilian police officer shot him to end the rampage -- has not been officially charged. The FBI has said he will be charged in a military court.

Investigators say there is no indication Maj. Hasan acted in concert with others or as part of a larger terrorist plot.

But the military intelligence official who spoke to The Times remained skeptical.

"It's way too early" to be saying Maj. Hasan acted alone, the military intelligence official said, though he acknowledged that Maj. Hasan may just have been inspired by al Qaeda or other Muslim jihad groups without being under their operational control.

"There is definitely a need for a fresh look" at the intelligence breakdown, said the official, who described the case as "an intel debacle."

The official used an analogy with the Mafia to explain the singular importance of as many as 20 e-mails with Mr. al-Awlaki, a man of huge stature within jihadist circles.

"It's one thing to know people in the Mafia. It's something else again to be in regular correspondence with John Gotti," he said.

[clambake]

you know, if you think about it, pat robertson and his ilk are extremist.

i'm beginning to warm up to this.

[doobs]

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjlkY2YwNzkxY2Q2NzRmYjlmODYxMzA2ZTIxOTA5ZTI=

[George Gervin's Afro]

Maj. Hasan made some of the contacts while visiting known jihadist chat rooms on the Internet, according to one of The Times' sources, a senior FBI official. He said that several people with whom Maj. Hasan was in contact had been the focus of investigations by the FBI-led Joint Terrorism Task Force.

So his terrorist contacts have been in anonymous online chatrooms?

[DarrinS]

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjlkY2YwNzkxY2Q2NzRmYjlmODYxMzA2ZTIxOTA5ZTI=


The secondhand smoke of psychobabble: "secondary/vicarious traumitization"


:rolleyes

[hope4dopes]

Why are they making this guy's "personal delimma" the focus,while the people he killed are muted into the background, as the faceless, and affordable price of cultural sensitivtiy.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Why are they making this guy's "personal delimma" the focus,while the people he killed are muted into the background, as the faceless, and affordable price of cultural sensitivtiy.

I thought you wanted to know why he did it?

[LnGrrrR]

As of May, 2009, there are 1,445,000 active duty military personnel. In this population, there are about 3500 muslims, or 0.24 percent. Of that very tiny fraction, there have been three separate incidents of "unfriendly" fire. That's not a very promising statistic.

3 of 3500 isn't promising? Really? How come you didn't post the amount of friendly fire incidents in total, or compared to other populations?

What's funny is that even IF the rate were higher, what would that mean? That we should discriminate against Muslims in the military?

[LnGrrrR]

Not all religion is the same. Christians don't teach hate. If a Christian does something in the name of Jesus, Christian leadership will denounce it. Not the case with Muslims.

Oh yeah? Because I remember a whole bunch of Christians in New Orleans the weekend before Huuricabe Gustav hit, holding signs and proclaiming that God was bringing the hurricane because there were gay people and hedonists living there. Not only were they claimig that, but they were hoping that it would sweep the gays out of New Orleans.

Didn't see much love in that group.

[DarrinS]

3 of 3500 isn't promising? Really?


If that is an acceptable figure to you, then multiply (3/3500) times the number of non-muslim active duty and you'd have 12,356 murders. Is that rate still acceptable to you?



How come you didn't post the amount of friendly fire incidents in total, or compared to other populations?


You consider Hasan's act "friendly fire"? I don't.




What's funny is that even IF the rate were higher, what would that mean? That we should discriminate against Muslims in the military?


No, but if they are actively trying to engage the enemy, then they should be under intense scrutiny.

[hope4dopes]

No, I think what he might be saying is that we tell islamist apoligists to go fuck themselves,recognize it is likely that terrorists use the West's strongest weapon(enlightenment) against them, like any enemy would,look the problem honestly in the face, and err on the side of caution.I mean did we discriminate against pro-facists during the second world war.

[George Gervin's Afro]

No, I think what he might be saying is that we tell islamist apoligists to go fuck themselves,recognize it is likely that terrorists use the West's strongest weapon(enlightenment) against them, like any enemy would,look the problem honestly in the face, and err on the side of caution.I mean did we discriminate against pro-facists during the second world war.

This suggestion should be taken with a grain of salt since you have acknowledged that you don't wait for all of the facts before making a decision.. maybe all of your posts should always be caveated that you don't need to know all of the facts in order to post an opinion..

[George Gervin's Afro]

The FBI has said that its investigations indicates the "alleged gunman acted alone and was not part of a broader terrorist plot."

[DarrinS]

^And? ...

[DarrinS]

Fort Hood shootings suspect may have wired money to Pakistan

Hmmmmm.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/111209dnproshooter.3f20c43.html

[doobs]

Fort Hood shootings suspect may have wired money to Pakistan

Hmmmmm.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/111209dnproshooter.3f20c43.html

People sure do strange things when suffering from pre-PTSD.

[DarrinS]

People sure do strange things when suffering from pre-PTSD.


I hate when I accidentally create 50-page powerpoint presetations on Islam and I accidentally email radical imams multiple times, and when I accidentally wire money to Pakistan.

[doobs]

I hate when I accidentally create 50-page powerpoint presetations on Islam and I accidentally email radical imams multiple times, and when I accidentally wire money to Pakistan.

I usually only do that when someone hurts my feelings by calling me a bad name.

[hope4dopes]

This suggestion should be taken with a grain of salt since you have acknowledged that you don't wait for all of the facts before making a decision.. maybe all of your posts should always be caveated that you don't need to know all of the facts in order to post an opinion.. Yeah.... we know,we know... you'll get back to us in a couple of years.....

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yeah.... we know,we know... you'll get back to us in a couple of years.....

and we know you don't need all of the facts to make a decision or accusation.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah.... we know,we know... you'll get back to us in a couple of years.....I don't think it will take that long.

[hope4dopes]

and we know you don't need all of the facts to make a decision or accusation.George now you know you're not well known here as some sort of sage,with a particularly reticent and level headed make up, to try and pretend you are makes you look like your dodging the issue at best, and at worst makes you look stupid.....er.

[hope4dopes]

I don't think it will take that long. better..better..take your time.

[ChumpDumper]

better..better..take your time.Thanks for posting about me again.

[George Gervin's Afro]

George now you know you're not well known here as some sort of sage,with a particularly reticent and level headed make up, to try and pretend you are makes you look like your dodging the issue at best, and at worst makes you look stupid.....er.

so waiting for all information necessary to make an informed decision is dodging an issue?

Do you need to know all of the facts in order to make an informed decision about anything?

yes or no..


it's not that hard dummy.

[clambake]

i remember when you guys were drooling all over pakistan.

[ChumpDumper]

Really, micca of da streets -- feel free to tell us all exactly what happened, all the parties involved, and everything with which they can be charged.

We're waiting.

[hope4dopes]

Really, micca of da streets -- feel free to tell us all exactly what happened, all the parties involved, and everything with which they can be charged.

We're waiting. I told you the last time to throw a panther martin and you ignored me so you're on your own.

[clambake]

i don't think there's anything wrong with you speculating what happened, micca.

how far do you think you'll move the goal post?

[LnGrrrR]

If that is an acceptable figure to you, then multiply (3/3500) times the number of non-muslim active duty and you'd have 12,356 murders. Is that rate still acceptable to you?

You said three incidents of "unfriendly fire". That doesn't mean murder; it could have been a casualty. It wasn't clear from the post.

And I just typed friendly fire as I misread your unfriendly fire comment.




No, but if they are actively trying to engage the enemy, then they should be under intense scrutiny.

I don't think anyone arguing that. Leave it to the Army to allow a person who showed signs of suspicion, including possibly trying to connect up with al Qaeda, to maintain his job...

Somebody definitely seemed to have dropped the ball here.

[LnGrrrR]

No, I think what he might be saying is that we tell islamist apoligists to go fuck themselves,recognize it is likely that terrorists use the West's strongest weapon(enlightenment) against them, like any enemy would,look the problem honestly in the face, and err on the side of caution.I mean did we discriminate against pro-facists during the second world war.

How do you think enlightenment is our greatest strength if you also feel it could be used against us? Just curious.

[LnGrrrR]

Also, this gunman may have acted alone, and may have even had PTSD. If he did have PTSD, he probably should've had limited access to weapons. (Did he use a personal or base weapon?)

But from the limited info I've read, he certainly seems to have lost it and either sided with the terrorists or wanted to be one himself.

[DarrinS]

Also, this gunman may have acted alone, and may have even had PTSD. If he did have PTSD, he probably should've had limited access to weapons. (Did he use a personal or base weapon?)


If he had PTSD, then the "P" stands for "pre".



But from the limited info I've read, he certainly seems to have lost it and either sided with the terrorists or wanted to be one himself



Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner! This is what the MSM is so loath to admit. Chris Matthews even said (I'm paraphrasing) "it's unclear whether his religion played a factor..." WHAT?
Heraldo said (again paraphrasing) "I don't know -- he may have had a tooth ache..." WHAT?

[Shastafarian]

Fort Hood shootings suspect may have wired money to Pakistan

Hmmmmm.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/111209dnproshooter.3f20c43.html


WASHINGTON – Authorities have been examining whether Fort Hood massacre suspect Nidal Malik Hasan wired money to Pakistan in recent months, an action that one senior lawmaker said would raise serious questions about Hasan's possible connections to militant Islamic groups.

Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., said sources "outside of the [intelligence] community" learned about Hasan's possible connections to the Asian country, which faces a massive Islamist insurgency and is widely believed to be Osama bin Laden's hiding place.

Hoekstra, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, would not identify the sources. But he said "they are trying to follow up on it because they recognize that if there are communications – phone or money transfers with somebody in Pakistan – it just raises a whole other level of questions."

Much remains unknown about the 39-year-old Hasan, born in Virginia to Palestinian immigrants. He lived alone near the Army base in Killeen, Texas, and would sometimes use a neighbor's computer even though he had his own.

"With what I know about Hasan to date ... I would expect we will learn more about him that will make us concerned," Hoekstra said, "rather than information that says, 'Oh man, we got that all wrong and this had nothing to do with terrorism.' "

Sounds concrete to me!

[Shastafarian]

If he had PTSD, then the "P" stands for "pre".




Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner! This is what the MSM is so loath to admit. Chris Matthews even said (I'm paraphrasing) "it's unclear whether his religion played a factor..." WHAT?
Heraldo said (again paraphrasing) "I don't know -- he may have had a tooth ache..." WHAT?

So terrorism is directly correlated to religion. Gotcha.

[EmptyMan]

Killer's legs are paralyzed, perhaps indefinitely.

[clambake]

i think he's faking.

[DarrinS]

More evidence that Hasan was only stressed out.

He identified himself as a soldier of Allah (SoA) on his business cards. Sweet.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=9070094

[Winehole23]

This matters why?

[clambake]

darrin wants to believe that hasan shared a bed with the guy that bush said wasn't important anymore.

[George Gervin's Afro]

He carried business cards?


Yup, he's a terrorist!

[Crookshanks]

The latest is that he wanted the soldiers he counseled tried as war criminals. This dude was a self-radicalized muslim and he should've been out of the Army a few years ago.

He actually wanted to forego his doctor/patient confidentiality so he could report these soldiers and have them charged with war crimes.

Deny it all you want - his religion had everything to do with these murders and this was an act of terrorism.

[clambake]

yes, he acted alone.

[clambake]

bump

sec. of defense gates refuses to call it a terrorist attack.

[rjv]

if a skewed or irrational religious belief is the variable to determine an act of terrorism then this country has been beaten down by terroristic acts.

[doobs]

Bump. (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/major-hasans-mail-wait-join-afterlife/story?id=9130339)

[Nbadan]

Looks like the Army ignored Hasan's erratic behavior...


Two years ago, a top psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center was so concerned about what he saw as Nidal Hasan's incompetence and reckless behavior that he put those concerns in writing. NPR has obtained a copy of the memo, the first evaluation that has surfaced from Hasan's file.

Officials at Walter Reed sent that memo to Fort Hood this year when Hasan was transferred there.

Nevertheless, commanders still assigned Hasan — accused of killing 13 people in a mass shooting at Fort Hood on Nov. 5 — to work with some of the Army's most troubled and vulnerable soldiers.

The Damning Memo

On May 17, 2007, Hasan's supervisor at Walter Reed sent the memo to the Walter Reed credentials committee. It reads, "Memorandum for: Credentials Committee. Subject: CPT Nidal Hasan." More than a page long, the document warns that: "The Faculty has serious concerns about CPT Hasan's professionalism and work ethic. ... He demonstrates a pattern of poor judgment and a lack of professionalism." It is signed by the chief of psychiatric residents at Walter Reed, Maj. Scott Moran.

When shown the memo, two leading psychiatrists said it was so damning, it might have sunk Hasan's career if he had applied for a job outside the Army.

NPR (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=120540125)

[Winehole23]

You're as old as I am (if not older) -- can you name me some major Peurto Rican terrorist attacks?Came across another one today: tried to assassinate (http://www.newsinhistory.com/blog/puerto-rican-nationalists-try-assassinate-president-truman) President Truman.

[DarrinS]

Came across another one today: tried to assassinate (http://www.newsinhistory.com/blog/puerto-rican-nationalists-try-assassinate-president-truman) President Truman.

You came across this today and the first thing you do is unearth this thread? How sad.

[Winehole23]

I like to continue conversations sometimes. Admittedly, trying to discuss things with you can be pretty pitiful.

[Winehole23]

Still, your concern is touching. :cry

[DarrinS]

I like to continue conversations sometimes. Admittedly, trying to discuss things with you can be pretty pitiful.

Fair enough

[Winehole23]

Politics have made it too easy on the criminals. That my friends is a fact. It rains hardcore in this case.Trump and Barr just declined to prosecute the Saudi terror cell in Florida after one of them killed three service members. Sent them back home, without doing anything but asking the KSA to denounce them.

Lenient gun laws also played a part:


Officials reported that the perpetrator had obtained a hunting license which allows for non-immigrants on a non-immigrant visa to purchase a gun. He then legally purchased a weapon from a gun store earlier in the year.

[DMC]

Isn't "terror cell" a bit of hyperbole? What evidence do you have that there was a terror cell?

[Winehole23]

Isn't "terror cell" a bit of hyperbole? What evidence do you have that there was a terror cell?Sorry, radical Muslims receiving US military training while passing around kiddie porn and making "death to America" posts on social media.

Like one does.

Wonder where all the people worried about radical Muslims and official nonchalance about the same went.

[boutons_deux]

ARMY SERGEANTS AT FORT HOOD FEAR FOR THE SAFETY OF THEIR SOLDIERS

Noncommissioned officers at the troubled base say

they have little faith that military or congressional reviews will change the toxic leadership culture.

a toxic leadership culture at Fort Hood that tolerates

rampant drug use,

sexual harassment, and

misconduct on base,

and in some instances, has allowed

service members accused of sexual assault to remain within their ranks.

Three of the NCOs said they’ve witnessed

young soldiers in crisis who were ignored by their commanding officers and later attempted suicide.

Since January, there have been 28 deaths at Fort Hood, including five homicides and eight suicides.

“The public needs to know what’s going on here,” said one of the sergeants.

“Because I have no more faith in the federal system or the Army.”

Fort Hood has a reputation in the Army as a place

where problematic leaders from other installations are sent and “careers go to die.”

Higher-ranking officers who are caught using drugs or accused of sexual harassment or assault are often reassigned to other positions rather than punished, the NCOs said,

sending a message of impunity that stokes a climate of fear and distrust on the base.

https://theintercept.com/2020/10/23/fort-hood-army-deaths/