Ilgauskas for Jax - freakin obvious!

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

This has to be the most obvious yet-to-be-consummated trade in the NBA right now.

From what I've read, the Zombie Warriors like Big Z and his big expiring and WANT TO DO THE DEAL, but Cleveland are baulking. WTF??? Epic GMing fail!!!!!! :bang

Jax is exactly what Cleveland needs - a ferocious, big shot making animal to play Artest to LBJ's Kobe. Sure, you take on 3 expensive years of Jax, but I have a feeling LBJ is GONE unless they make the Finals this year. He's sick of carrying the whole load and watching his teammates miss big shots. The Mo Williams experiment failed last April, and the Shaq experiment was doomed from the beginning. You already have solid Varejao, the parody of his former self Shaq, and a blooming Hickson in the frontcourt, so you deal Z for Jax and watch Jax thrive as LBJ's beta-dog. Doesn't it seem obvious?

[Riverwalkman]

Link of the source?

[KidCongo]

Maybe if Powe was fit and healthy they'd do it straight away and AV would play as the back up C. The rumour keeps popping up across the net doesn't it.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I don't need to link the source, it's common knowledge, been discussed in multiple articles over a fortnight, but here's one for instance:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/category/_/name/marc-stein-contributors

PS Jax's salary 7.65m, Big Z is 11.5m, but you can easily fill in that deal with one other player.

Warriors also need to sell the team to an owner who cares and get a new coach in. That team and organisation is utterly cancerous right now and needs a new culture.

[TDMVPDPOY]

no way the cavs do this

if they win or not, labron is gone anyway...

and they are stuck with jax for the remainder of his contract, and who knows if he causes another misfit wants a trade....

[Riverwalkman]

I think Cavs should love to make this move. Why not? They need another player who can HANDLE the ball and CREATE shot. Mo Williams as 2nd scorer is kind of ridiculous, they've got too many single-functional players, they need a versatile SF.

[Thunder Dan]

Cavs want a backup for Shaq if he gets hurt. I can see what they are doing as big men are hard to find come playoff time. It's not as obvious as everyone thinks as this is the NBA, not fantasy basketball

[JamStone]

I think Cavs... need a versatile SF.

:lol

[Findog]

Cavs want a backup for Shaq if he gets hurt. I can see what they are doing as big men are hard to find come playoff time. It's not as obvious as everyone thinks as this is the NBA, not fantasy basketball

This.

[My Fault]

With Shaq already clogging up the lane. Cavs need a 4 that can space the floor.

[Thunder Dan]

With Shaq already clogging up the lane. Cavs need a 4 that can space the floor.

J.J. Hickson

[SamoanTD]

J.J. Hickson:lmao

[AussieFanKurt]

I guess its too late now

[Thunder Dan]

:lmao

averaging 13 ppg since put into the starting lineup. Everyone can laugh at JJ because he isn't a household name, but he is a good player. Scored 18 the other night in Miami and 20 Saturday. He can hit the 15 foot jumper which is all the Cavs need from him

Leads the Cavs in +/- and the Cavs are 4-0 with him as a starter.

[admiralsnackbar]

Shaq's too old for them to thin-out their front-court.

[hater]

you're basically betting your entire season on Shaq's knees. Not a good bet IMO

[Thunder Dan]

you're basically betting your entire season on Shaq's knees. Not a good bet IMO

both Shaq and Z are old, so they go well together. If they are both healthy, they play around 20 minutes a night, if one gets traded they other has to play much more, which means they are more prone to being run down or hurt. 2 old centers are better than 1 in this case. They are insurance policies on eachother

[Flux451]

They can't break up the TWIN TOWERS. :nope

When I see those two drudging along, it reminds me of the TREES from Lord of the Rings.

[nkdlunch]

They can't break up the TWIN TOWERS. :nope

When I see those two drudging along, it reminds me of the TREES from Lord of the Rings.

:lmao

[My Fault]

J.J. Hickson
We're talking about Shaq here... JJ Hickson does not space the floor.

[mogrovejo]

The Cavs should have S&T Wally and fillers (West?) or Z for Jackson.

I can't see how can they get the big they need for Z (Troy Murphy? Is he worth the trouble?). What kind of big the Cavs need, anyway?

An athletic, perimeter orientated, defensively capable - and I don't see anyone available for what they have to offer.

So, what should Ferry do?

Answer: trade Z for a versatile wing.

Why?

Because at least they cover one of their flaws: another quality perimeter player that can make plays.


Them, they need to keep starting Hickson alongside Shaq - like Jones for the Nuggets last season (except Hickson won't play for his defence - he will create better balance in the rotation). The Cavs should then use Varejao as their first big off the bench and play him comparable minutes to Shaq or perhaps more (while limiting his minutes alongside Shaq).

After watching 8 of their games, I'm positively convinced that Varejao, Shaq and Ilgauskas playing alongside one another aren't going to be effective enough as a grouping to give Cleveland a large enough contribution in the paint.

So, they should use James as their 4th big - playing 10 minutes per game or so (depending on Hickson) at the 4. If they don't add another quality wing, they'll suddenly become a weak rebounding and defensive team. Hence, they trade Z for that wing.

Big man rotation:

Shaq: 28-30 minutes a night
Varejao: 34-38 minutes a night as the first big off the bench.
Hickson: 20-25 minutes depending on his success in the coming weeks.
LeBron James playing 13-16 minutes as the fourth big in the rotation
Darnell Jackson as the fifth string.

James can still play 25-30 minutes at his best position. Parker is good another 30 mpg. This leaves 35 mpg for the new wing and Moon gets the scraps.

[Thunder Dan]

We're talking about Shaq here... JJ Hickson does not space the floor.

JJ isn't a 3 point shooter, but he can step out and hit shots, he is like a Boozer type

[lefty]

http://www.failpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/fail_thread.jpg

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Cavs want a backup for Shaq if he gets hurt. I can see what they are doing as big men are hard to find come playoff time. It's not as obvious as everyone thinks as this is the NBA, not fantasy basketball

Even trading Z, you still have 3 solid bigs, and you need a clutch second scorer far more than you do Z's 6.5/5.8. Shaq isn't working out anyway, so better to play him 20-25mins and use a scrub for 6 fouls (if necessary).


The Warriors did not want to give Jack what he wanted an trade him to a contender.

:tu


http://www.failpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/fail_thread.jpg

Not my fault that Ferry is weak (here's an excerpt from Mark Stein dated a few hours before the trade):

"Dealing Jackson for a Szczerbiak-West combo, depending what other minor pieces might be added to the deal from both sides, would at least relieve Golden State of a financial burden in future seasons in exchange for their former captain. Given the in-house tension that has been generated by Jackson's trade demand late in the summer, Jackson's subsequent two-game suspension early in the exhibition season after a sideline blowup with coach Don Nelson during the exhibition season and the recent blasting of Nelson by Jackson's agent Mark Stevens, payroll relief must sound pretty good to the Warriors.

The bigger obstacle would appear to be the Cavs' willingness to make such a bold move so early, no matter what form the deal takes, since any desperation Cleveland was feeling after its 0-2 start was undoubtedly eased by last week's road sweep of Orlando and Miami."

So, instead, Jax gets shipped to Larry B and the Cats. That should be interesting. Hope he changes their season and they make the 8-spot while Cleveland fall in the 2nd round again.

Bye bye, LBJ.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

And Hollinger is spot-on:

"John Hollinger | ESPN.com

What a humiliating about-face. Less than a year after the Warriors' dysfunctional management proudly signed team captain Stephen Jackson to a cap-crippling three-year, $28 million extension negotiated behind then-general manager Chris Mullin's back, they gave away the disgruntled veteran for cap relief on Monday by dealing him and Acie Law to Charlotte for Raja Bell and Vladimir Radmanovic. Radmanovic's own contract is bad enough that the Lakers gave him away at the trade deadline a year earlier, speaking volumes about the Warriors' gaffe with Jackson.

What makes this even worse is that it appears Golden State took the second-best offer on the table. Multiple league sources told me the Cavaliers were ready to move ahead with a deal featuring a signed-and-traded Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West and perhaps some ancillary flotsam in return for Jackson, a deal that would have been visibly superior to the Charlotte deal from both a cap-management and talent perspective.

Let's run through the math. Bell is a productive player -- but at a much lower level than Jackson -- and is on the final year of his contract, making the primary benefit of the deal for Golden State the fact it clears $9.2 million in cap space in 2011. The Warriors are now a potential player in that year's free-agent market, depending on future moves.

But they could have cleared even more cap space with Cleveland's offer. Such a deal would have given the Warriors full, immediate relief from Jackson's deal after the season once they waived West (whose contract isn't guaranteed for next year) and Szczerbiak (whose contract wouldn't be guaranteed beyond this year in a sign-and-trade)."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-091116live

Z, Wally, West - who was sent matters little, it's getting Jax that was important. And Ferry screwed it. The East must be rejoicing! :lol

[mogrovejo]

And Hollinger is spot-on:

"John Hollinger | ESPN.com

What a humiliating about-face. Less than a year after the Warriors' dysfunctional management proudly signed team captain Stephen Jackson to a cap-crippling three-year, $28 million extension negotiated behind then-general manager Chris Mullin's back, they gave away the disgruntled veteran for cap relief on Monday by dealing him and Acie Law to Charlotte for Raja Bell and Vladimir Radmanovic. Radmanovic's own contract is bad enough that the Lakers gave him away at the trade deadline a year earlier, speaking volumes about the Warriors' gaffe with Jackson.

What makes this even worse is that it appears Golden State took the second-best offer on the table. Multiple league sources told me the Cavaliers were ready to move ahead with a deal featuring a signed-and-traded Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West and perhaps some ancillary flotsam in return for Jackson, a deal that would have been visibly superior to the Charlotte deal from both a cap-management and talent perspective.

Let's run through the math. Bell is a productive player -- but at a much lower level than Jackson -- and is on the final year of his contract, making the primary benefit of the deal for Golden State the fact it clears $9.2 million in cap space in 2011. The Warriors are now a potential player in that year's free-agent market, depending on future moves.

But they could have cleared even more cap space with Cleveland's offer. Such a deal would have given the Warriors full, immediate relief from Jackson's deal after the season once they waived West (whose contract isn't guaranteed for next year) and Szczerbiak (whose contract wouldn't be guaranteed beyond this year in a sign-and-trade)."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-091116live

Z, Wally, West - who was sent matters little, it's getting Jax that was important. And Ferry screwed it. The East must be rejoicing! :lol

I think Ferry is rolling the dice on getting a better player available later on. It sure is a risky strategy though.

[KidCongo]

I think you're overrating the impact that Jackson would have had in Cleveland.

[mogrovejo]

I think you're overrating the impact that Jackson would have had in Cleveland.

Jackson is a bit too inefficient as a scorer and especially as a jump-shooter to put the Cavs over the top (his ball-handling skills would be redundant). I'm not sure if a better player than him will become available though.

[Thunder Dan]

the Cavs don't need Jackson, and not getting him makes no difference to the 2010 situation with Lebron. If anything, it helps not getting him because they won't owe a 31 year old Jackson (who plays the same position as Lebron) 3 years and 20 something million. The Cavs need to get younger, not older. Trading for Jackson may help the situation right now, but it doesn't help at all for the future.

If the Warriors took the deal on the Cavs terms (West and Wally) that is one thing, but don't trade Z. Z is a valuable asset to the Cavs- even though a bunch of people who don't even follow the Cavs don't think so- and they need him, and his 20,000,000 coming off the books. The Cavs made the offer that best suited them (West and Wally) and Charlotte made a better one. That is how it works, but saying Lebron is leaving because they didn't get Stephen Jackson is crazy. Look at Stephen Jackson, he gets 18 ppg by shooting like 40%, if Delonte West took the number of shots SJAX did he would average 18 a game and Delonte is what 4 years younger than SJAX.


And while I'm on it. The Cavs are 4-0 with Hickson in the lineup. They won 2 very tough games on the road on a back to back. They look very good right now, so all you saying that Shaq sucks and they need more are ridiculous. They may need a little here and there, but they don't need major changes, and they surely don't need to trade away depth for a gamble. They are fine. The offense looks good, and the defense will be there.

[Thunder Dan]

Z, Wally, West - who was sent matters little, it's getting Jax that was important. And Ferry screwed it. The East must be rejoicing! :lol

the deal the Cavs were offering was West and Wally.....Z is untradeable at this point. Laugh all you want, but 7 foot guys are hard to find. He is slow, but most 7'1 guys are. He is valuable to the team as long as there are 70 something more games to play

[KidCongo]

Jackson is a bit too inefficient as a scorer and especially as a jump-shooter to put the Cavs over the top (his ball-handling skills would be redundant). I'm not sure if a better player than him will become available though.

Exactly and I like Parker in the starting line-up with Mo, LJ and Shaq. He has his niche and plays it well. I doubt Jackson would want to come off the bench.

Dan is right in saying the Cavs need an athletic big-man to match up with Dwight, Bynum etc.

[KidCongo]

And while I'm on it. The Cavs are 4-0 with Hickson in the lineup. They won 2 very tough games on the road on a back to back. They look very good right now, so all you saying that Shaq sucks and they need more are ridiculous. They may need a little here and there, but they don't need major changes, and they surely don't need to trade away depth for a gamble. They are fine. The offense looks good, and the defense will be there.

:lobt2:

The Orlando game showed what they could do with a bit of practice time.

[Thunder Dan]

Dan is right in saying the Cavs need an athletic big-man to match up with Dwight, Bynum etc.

the thing is, Dwight Howard is such a beast because there isn't anyone in the league who can match up with that. That is why Lebron is so good, there are only maybe 2 or 3 guys in the whole league who can slow him down. Same goes for Dwight, and I can't even think of one (maybe Perkins but that may be team defense). What I'm saying is, the Cavs aren't going to find a center who can match up with Howard. That is what makes Howard so valuable. That said, I think Shaq can be effective vs Howard. I think he can slow him down just enough whether it's just fouling him, or just keeping a big body on him.

The Cavs could get one of the best young centers in the league, say Brook Lopez, and he wouldn't be able to stop Dwight. So Cleveland isn't alone. That is just how it goes.

[Thunder Dan]

I don't konw. Mo Williams, Jack, LeBron and Shaq would be sick.

I truly believe that the Cavs wanted Jackson more for his defense and length than they did for his scoring. His scoring is high, but it's because he was the Warriors only option in a system that was all scoring. When Jackson played for SA and Indy he was one of the better defenders in the league. His offense isn't that great. He scores like 18ppg by jacking up 20 shots a night, someone who can shoot 40% in the NBA isn't that hard. Put him in a system where he isn't the focus, and he is scoring 8 points a game with 10-12 shots, basically Delonte West.

[KidCongo]

the thing is, Dwight Howard is such a beast because there isn't anyone in the league who can match up with that. That is why Lebron is so good, there are only maybe 2 or 3 guys in the whole league who can slow him down. Same goes for Dwight, and I can't even think of one (maybe Perkins but that may be team defense). What I'm saying is, the Cavs aren't going to find a center who can match up with Howard. That is what makes Howard so valuable. That said, I think Shaq can be effective vs Howard. I think he can slow him down just enough whether it's just fouling him, or just keeping a big body on him.

The Cavs could get one of the best young centers in the league, say Brook Lopez, and he wouldn't be able to stop Dwight. So Cleveland isn't alone. That is just how it goes.

Shaq is great in that they don't need to double him and if Cleveland can convert in their half court sets it limits Dwight's chance at getting great position.

[iggypop123]

im so glad we dont have ferry as the gm. such an easy deal to make. z is the problem he isnt a pf so get rid of him. the cavs are stupid

[JoeTait75]

I think you're overrating the impact that Jackson would have had in Cleveland.

Actually I don't agree.

Captain Jack would fit in very well here.

I kinda hope Charlotte wants to move him. I'd have given up Z for him. Love ya Z, hope you retire as a Cavalier, we'll put #11 in the rafters when you do and have a night for you and shit, but you know how it goes.

[Thunder Dan]

im so glad we dont have ferry as the gm. such an easy deal to make. z is the problem he isnt a pf so get rid of him. the cavs are stupid

so what would the Cavs do if Shaq got hurt? (which he is right now). Or what would they do when they are in the playoffs against a dominate center who Shaq will likely be in foul trouble against?

[mogrovejo]

Exactly and I like Parker in the starting line-up with Mo, LJ and Shaq. He has his niche and plays it well. I doubt Jackson would want to come off the bench.

Dan is right in saying the Cavs need an athletic big-man to match up with Dwight, Bynum etc.

It was me who said it, but I was thinking more of a mobile, perimeter-oriented, athletic big man, not exactly a post defender.

Jackson would be the ideal fit, but he'd still help the Cavs enormously.

[mogrovejo]

so what would the Cavs do if Shaq got hurt? (which he is right now). Or what would they do when they are in the playoffs against a dominate center who Shaq will likely be in foul trouble against?

Z is just too expensive to be a 4th big - what you're missing by not trading him could help you more than what he offers (especially considering he doesn't play well off the bench). If your starting center goes down, of course you're going to have problems - of course they're going to be bigger if you trade one of your bigs. But the point is if Ferry is comfortable with his chances of winning the title this season with the current roster.

[Chieflion]

Ilgauskas has done a lot for the Cavs franchise and it was very likely that the Cavs wanted the Warriors to buy Big Z out but the Warriors did not want to do so, making the deal a no go.