Is Kobe going to retire with 6 rings?

[lefty]

Discuss.

And Laker fans, don't even bother to post, I already know your answers

[BRHornet45]

LOL damn son! ... Kobe is already 30 years old. I HIGHLY doubt he will win 5 more rings before his career is over. dude only has 1 ring.

[ElNono]

If he would be anywhere near as good as Jordan, he could.
But he's not, so nope.

[BRHornet45]

If he would be anywhere near as good as Jordan, he could.
But he's not, so nope.

LOL Jordan never was a "role player" like Kobe was during the Shaq era.

[ElNono]

LOL Jordan never was a "role player" like Kobe was during the Shaq era.

We all know Horace Grant carried MJ to 3 titles...

[Darrin]

He's 31 and he's got a nucleus around him that will last at least 5 years. If I had to bet if he can win 2 out of the next 5 titles, if he's healthy, I would take that action. But we'll have to see how the league shakes out after 2010's offseason.

[ElNono]

I forgot that Horace Grant actually carried Kobe and Shaq to one ring also.
I'm sorry, we can go back to Kobe now.

[spursfan09]

:wow where are all the Laker fans?

I say its possible, but you never know. Alot of things have to go right. Those very things that I hope go all wrong for the Lakers, and all right for the Spurs.

[redzero]

If he does, there will be a shitload of Lakers fans claiming that he's in discussion with Jordan as the best of all time, as if merely having six rings makes him eligible.

[BRHornet45]

:wow where are all the Laker fans?

I say its possible, but you never know. Alot of things have to go right. Those very things that I hope go all wrong for the Lakers, and all right for the Spurs.

son didn't you read the OG's post? he told Laker fans to not bother posting ... they follow the rules. respect

[Darrin]

If he does, there will be a shitload of Lakers fans claiming that he's in discussion with Jordan as the best of all time, as if merely having six rings makes him eligible.

He's already in that discussion.

[IronMexican]

If he does, there will be a shitload of Lakers fans claiming that he's in discussion with Jordan as the best of all time, as if merely having six rings makes him eligible.

No one is in that discussion.

[BRHornet45]

He's already in that discussion.

LMAO!!! ... son you have been watching too much ESPN AKA TMZ AKA WWE

[Darrin]

LMAO!!! ... son you have been watching too much ESPN AKA TMZ AKA WWE

No, I have plenty of Kobe games and plenty of Jordan games. In case you didn't notice, you can't get NBA highlights on the Disney family of networks. Too much money is tied up in College and Pro football. For instance, does NBA Fastbreak run year-round like NFL Live?

[ElNono]

He's already in that discussion.

I understand that Kobe is going Colorado on your team right now, but there's really nothing to discuss when it comes to MJ, the GOAT.

[Darrin]

I understand that Kobe is going Colorado on your team right now, but there's really nothing to discuss when it comes to MJ, the GOAT.

That's bull. He doesn't have any holes in his game. He is the most complete player I have ever seen lace them up.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

He's already in that discussion.


Not really, but bitter Pistonfan hating MJ is nothing new.

[ElNono]

That's bull. He doesn't have any holes in his game. He is the most complete player I have ever seen lace them up.

Then you haven't seen enough. I mean, it's not close.

[BRHornet45]

That's bull. He doesn't have any holes in his game. He is the most complete player I have ever seen lace them up.

ROTFLMAO!!! ... son that would be like me saying Pau Gasol is the most complete ACTOR I have ever seen! .... 455% son do you know what that is?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That's bull. He doesn't have any holes in his game. He is the most complete player I have ever seen lace them up.


You must have missed the 2004 NBA finals.

[ElNono]

FWIW, I feel I need to put a disclaimer here: I'm not dogging on Kobe. I think he's presently the best player in the association.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

FWIW, I feel I need to put a disclaimer here: I'm not dogging on Kobe. I think he's presently the best player in the association.


Agreed, but he isn't and never will be MJ.

[redzero]

ROTFLMAO!!! ... son that would be like me saying Pau Gasol is the most complete ACTOR I have ever seen! .... 455% son do you know what that is?

Didn't you hear, BR? Kobe is a better 3-point shooter, which automatically makes him more complete than MJ, regardless of who was a better overall shooter.

[ElNono]

You must have missed the 2004 NBA finals.

Or the fact that him being the 'best closer' in the game is really a myth.

[redzero]

You must have missed the 2004 NBA finals.

Or the 2008 Finals. Hell, he hasn't really peformed that well in the Finals in general.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Or the fact that him being the 'best closer' in the game is really a myth.

You'd think the "best closer" in the NBA would be able to close out a 3-1 series lead.

[redzero]

You'd think the "best closer" in the NBA would be able to close out a 3-1 series lead.

Or not blow a 20+ lead in one quarter.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Or the 2008 Finals. Hell, he hasn't really peformed that well in the Finals in general.


I mentioned 2004 finals cause it's ironic that Pistonfan is calling Kobe the most complete player ever after he threw up quantity of bricks against them in 2004 capable of housing Detroit's homeless population.

[Darrin]

You must have missed the 2004 NBA finals.

Uh...No I didn't. I didn't miss that Bryant was 26-years-old when the Pistons held him to 37% shooting. What I didn't miss was that Kobe went back to the gym. I didn't miss all the shots he put up in 2005 or the series against the Suns when he almost sent 2-time MVP Steve Nash home in the first round. I have seen him evolve over the past five years into the most complete player in today's game.

Jordan had to grow as well. I've got some good tape of him making mistakes in the '89 Conference Finals. Don't buy the myth or get blinded by the bling. Jordan was dominant, but his game was not this complete at age 31.

[ElNono]

He did improve his footwork this season. I also thought he matured as a player as far as decision making since Gasol came around.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's similar to Spurfan talking about how awesome and respectful Pistonfan is because they beat the Pistons in 2005, all the while hating Mavfan because of their recent history against Dallas.

[redzero]

I mentioned 2004 finals cause it's ironic that Pistonfan is calling Kobe the most complete player ever after he threw up quantity of bricks against them in 2004 capable of housing Detroit's homeless population.

The Sonics could have gotten a new arena with all those bricks.

[Darrin]

He did improve his footwork this season. I also thought he matured as a player as far as decision making since Gasol came around.

His footwork has grown two-fold since 2004.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

the series against the Suns when he almost sent 2-time MVP Steve Nash home in the first round.


"almost" sending someone home and getting sent home are the exact same thing. The way you talk about Nash, someone comparable to Jordan should have been able to close out a 3-1 series lead against Nash's team.

[Darrin]

"almost" sending someone home and getting sent home are the exact same thing. The way you talk about Nash, someone comparable to Jordan should have been able to close out a 3-1 series lead against Nash's team.

Stop it. He's been to the Finals twice since then and brought home the title last year with the Finals MVP in tow. He was growing as a player.

[ElNono]

There's no doubt in my mind that if you swap MJ for Kobe, at the same age, the Lakers would have won the Finals against the Celtics two seasons ago.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I didn't miss that Bryant was 26-years-old when the Pistons held him to 37% shooting.


When the fuck did 26 years old become some really young age. Give a 26 year old Michael Jordan Shaq in 1990, the Bulls take a piping hot shit on Detroit and steam role to a championship.

[redzero]

There's no doubt in my mind that if you swap MJ for Kobe, at the same age, the Lakers would have won the Finals against the Celtics two seasons ago.

They had the talent, but not the mental toughness.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Stop it. He's been to the Finals twice since then and brought home the title last year with the Finals MVP in tow. He was growing as a player.


This has nothing to do with the fact you just tried to pass of "almost sending Steve Nash home" as an accomplishment. Nash must be one heck of a player if "almost" beating him is that impressive.

[ElNono]

Stop it. He's been to the Finals twice since then and brought home the title last year with the Finals MVP in tow. He was growing as a player.

No Odom AND Gasol = no title.
We can surely argue that no Pippen = no title for MJ, but it's a lot less help.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Stop it. He's been to the Finals twice since then and brought home the title last year with the Finals MVP in tow. He was growing as a player.


How cute, he has 1 finals MVP. Jordan had 3 by Kobe's age.

[Amaso]

There's no doubt in my mind that if you swap MJ for Kobe, at the same age, the Lakers would have won the Finals against the Celtics two seasons ago.

I don't even think Michael Jordan could have prevented those cupcakes from being physically abused in the 2008 final. The Lakers didn't win cause they were missing Ariza and Bynum for the finals. The Celtics were damn good that year too.

[tlongII]

Now that the Blazers have arrived Kobe will never win another ring. NEVER!

[Amaso]

No Odom AND Gasol = no title.
We can surely argue that no Pippen = no title for MJ, but it's a lot less help.

It's amazing how people still underrate how good Pippen was.

[ElNono]

Actually, what differentiates MJ from the MJ's wannabe are that the later ones have all these 'almost', while MJ doesn't.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

MJ has a career shooting percent of 49.7%. Kobe has yet to have a season where he shoots at that clip.

[Darrin]

When the fuck did 26 years old become some really young age. Give a 26 year old Michael Jordan Shaq in 1990, the Bulls take a piping hot shit on Detroit and steam role to a championship.

Okay. You win the big hypothetical.

The reality is that Michael Jordan was watching the Pistons play in the Finals at the age of 26. Believe me, I have the whole series; he was not a complete player in 1989.

[ElNono]

It's amazing how people still underrate how good Pippen was.

How am I underrating him if I'm saying that no Pippen = no title?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

The reality is that Michael Jordan was watching the Pistons play in the Finals at the age of 26. Believe me, I have the whole series; he was not a complete player in 1989.


He was a lot more complete than Kobe was at that age.

[ElNono]

Okay. You win the big hypothetical.

The reality is that Michael Jordan was watching the Pistons play in the Finals at the age of 26. Believe me, I have the whole series; he was not a complete player in 1989.

I'm not saying MJ came into the league and dominated.
But I'm definitely saying that one he started to dominate, there were no if, buts or almosts...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's amazing how people still underrate how good Pippen was.


Not nearly as amazing as how much people discount the fact 3 of Kobe's 4 titles were won on a team with a top 3 center of all time as the best player on the team who won finals MVP all 3 years and received more MVP votes than Kobe all 3 years.

[ElNono]

WOW... did you guys see Maxiel's block on Shannon Brown?
Sorry for the interruption... :lol

[Darrin]

He was a lot more complete than Kobe was at that age.

That's not true. He was a slasher who had no court vision who made his living slashing to the rim. He lacked the ability to slice up a team with both the inside-and-outside game. Kobe had more of a grasp of that than Jordan did at that age.

[MiamiHeat]

Okay. You win the big hypothetical.

The reality is that Michael Jordan was watching the Pistons play in the Finals at the age of 26. Believe me, I have the whole series; he was not a complete player in 1989.

That's funny, because in 1988-89 season, Jordan won the league MVP AND the Defensive player of the year in the same season.

[MiamiHeat]

That's not true. He was a slasher who had no court vision who made his living slashing to the rim. He lacked the ability to slice up a team with both the inside-and-outside game. Kobe had more of a grasp of that than Jordan did at that age.

lmao, it's apparent now that Darrin is full of shit

[Darrin]

WOW... did you guys see Maxiel's block on Shannon Brown?
Sorry for the interruption... :lol

No, I turned off the game.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

If Dwayne Wade is a 1 and Michael Jordan is a 10, Kobe is somewhere between 2-5. He's a lot closer to being Dwayne Wade than he is to being Michael Jordan.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lmao, it's apparent now that Darrin is full of shit


Or just an average Pistonfan who hates Jordan.

[ElNono]

That's not true. He was a slasher who had no court vision who made his living slashing to the rim. He lacked the ability to slice up a team with both the inside-and-outside game. Kobe had more of a grasp of that than Jordan did at that age.

What the fuck are you talking about? He was bricking shots left and right and didn't even want to feed Shaq inside.

[ElNono]

No, I turned off the game.

You should check it out tomorrow

[Darrin]

That's funny, because in 1988-89 season, Jordan won the league MVP AND the Defensive player of the year in the same season.

Voted by the sports writers.

[redzero]

What the fuck are you talking about? He was bricking shots left and right and didn't even want to feed Shaq inside.

He wanted to be the man and failed miserably.

[MiamiHeat]

really, i am sick and tired of wasting time arguing with kobe jockers

they are ignant'

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Voted by the sports writers.


There's a reason why they have a vote and bitter Pistonfan doesn't.

[ElNono]

It's actually aggravated by the fact that Shaq at the time was still in his prime and is probably going to retire as one of the Top 3 best centers ever to play the game.

[Darrin]

He wanted to be the man and failed miserably.

You're right--the Pistons defense had nothing to do with it. They only set a record for opponents PPG and opponents FG&. They only held 5 CONSECUTIVE teams under 70 points and had a 12 PPG margin of victory with Rasheed Wallace.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That's not true. He was a slasher who had no court vision who made his living slashing to the rim. He lacked the ability to slice up a team with both the inside-and-outside game.


LMAO I'm sure that's why he won MVP and DPOY.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You're right--the Pistons defense had nothing to do with it. They only set a record for opponents PPG and opponents FG&. They only held 5 CONSECUTIVE teams under 70 points and had a 12 PPG margin of victory with Rasheed Wallace.


This was the same Pistons team that got shredded by Manu Ginobili a year later.

[Darrin]

It's actually aggravated by the fact that Shaq at the time was still in his prime and is probably going to retire as one of the Top 3 best centers ever to play the game.

His prime? Shaq hasn't scored over 22.9 ppg since that time (He averaged at least 27 a game in his prime and that was with Kobe). His defense had a fall-off from 2001-02 to 2002-03 so drastic that the Lakers were under .500 in December and considering the Lakers didn't have a power forward, they were bounced in the second round as defending Champions. That's why Shaq recruited Karl Malone and he spear-headed the defense of the Lakers in 2003-04.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

This was the same Pistons team that got shredded by Manu Ginobili a year later.

Who happens to be better than Jordan, Kobe, Wade and any of those other scrubs named in this thread so far. :drunk

[Darrin]

LMAO I'm sure that's why he won MVP and DPOY.

Sports writers.

[redzero]

This was the same Pistons team that got shredded by Manu Ginobili a year later.

Not to mention that Jordan still went off against the Bad Boys double teams.

[MiamiHeat]

I still believe Kobe is a product of HYPE and Shaq.

If Shaq doesn't deliver 3 rings, Kobe doesn't have the clout to jack up 40 shots a game and score 81, or demand a trade which got him Gasol/Odom/Fisher/Bynum on his team.

Show me what has Kobe done in the 08 or 09 Finals that is so special?

Absolutely nothing.

He had TWO teammates in Gasol and Bynum who SACRIFICE their games and take like 4 shots (in odom's case) a game even though they both shoot 50% FG....

while kobe regurlaly shoots like 43% or lower int he finals

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

His defense had a fall-off from 2001-02 to 2002-03 so drastic that the Lakers were under .500 in December and considering the Lakers didn't have a power forward, they were bounced in the second round as defending Champions.


it was a lot better than their record in November when Shaq was injured.

[MiamiHeat]

You're right--the Pistons defense had nothing to do with it. They only set a record for opponents PPG and opponents FG&. They only held 5 CONSECUTIVE teams under 70 points and had a 12 PPG margin of victory with Rasheed Wallace.

yeah, then the next year and in 2006, Dwyane Wade shredded and took a huge dump all over your Piston defense. Wade shot 70% in the ECF in 2006 I think?

sure.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Who happens to be better than Jordan, Kobe, Wade and any of those other scrubs named in this thread so far. :drunk


Apparently he is. Anyone capable shredding THE GREAT Piston defense is comparable to MJ.

[ElNono]

His prime? Shaq hasn't scored over 22.9 ppg since that time (He averaged at least 27 a game in his prime and that was with Kobe). His defense had a fall-off from 2001-02 to 2002-03 so drastic that the Lakers were under .500 in December and considering the Lakers didn't have a power forward, they were bounced in the second round as defending Champions.

I remember that. We kicked them out.
But a year later they were hungry again. They got Payton and Malone. They did make it to the Finals again, didn't they?
And Shaq certainly had enough to win another ring two years later with Wade.
That's what you do when you're Duncan or Shaq at the top of your game. You dominate.

Dumb Kobe wanted to be the man and instead of playing inside out, he was chucking up bricks.

I really don't care how good the Pistons defense was. MJ would have shredded them to pieces. I mean, that series didn't even make it seven games. How could you claim the best ever didn't even at least force 7 games in the Finals?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Sports writers.


Yeah, it was sports writers. I'm sure it had nothing to do with his 33.6 PPG at 52% shooting, 6.9 rebounds, 6.3 assists, and 2.8 steals. Nope, it was all sports writers.

[ElNono]

And FWIW, MJ didn't finish games the Bulls were leading by 15+ to pad stats like Kobe just did.

[Ghazi]

D-Whistle > Kobe right now and if you switch the rosters that would be more widely accepted.

However, Kobe has 4 rings, D-Whistle has 0.

[Darrin]

yeah, then the next year and in 2006, Dwyane Wade shredded and took a huge dump all over your Piston defense. Wade shot 70% in the ECF in 2006 I think?

sure.

He shot .606 in 2006...with Flip Saunders as coach.

[Darrin]

D-Whistle > Kobe right now and if you switch the rosters that would be more widely accepted.

However, Kobe has 4 rings, D-Whistle has 0.

He has one.

[ElNono]

Some people also forget that there was no hand-check bullshit rules back when MJ was playing. It's a guard game now, but back then big men ruled.

[Darrin]

Yeah, it was sports writers. I'm sure it had nothing to do with his 33.6 PPG at 52% shooting, 6.9 rebounds, 6.3 assists, and 2.8 steals. Nope, it was all sports writers.

And Steve Nash is as good as Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson.

[redzero]

D-Whistle > Kobe right now and if you switch the rosters that would be more widely accepted.

However, Kobe has 4 rings, D-Whistle has 0.

http://thebasketballoracle.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dwyane-wade-of-the-miami-heat.jpg

This must have been photoshopped then.

[ElNono]

BTW, Kobe just recoded his 100th 40+ points game... 73 more to go before he can catch up with MJ. Better hurry padding those stats Kobe!

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And Steve Nash is as good as Magic Johnson and Oscar Robertson.


You really just compared MJ to Steve Nash?

If MJ didn't deserve it in 1990, who the fuck did?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

BTW, Kobe just recoded his 100th 40+ points game... 73 more to go before he can catch up with MJ. Better hurry padding those stats Kobe!


MJ was just a one dimensional slasher who couldn't shred teams from inside and out. Actual statistics and evidence are irrelevant.

[Darrin]

You really just compared MJ to Steve Nash?

If MJ didn't deserve it in 1990, who the fuck did?

First of all, we're talking about 1988-89, when Jordan was 26, and he didn't win MVP--Magic Johnson did.

[Darrin]

You really just compared MJ to Steve Nash?



No, I just compared him to the other two point guards with multiple MVPs. Postseason awards mean nothing.

[ElNono]

MJ was just a one dimensional slasher who couldn't shred teams from inside and out. Actual statistics and evidence are irrelevant.

72 wins you say? Please, anybody can pull that one off...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

First of all, we're talking about 1988-89, when Jordan was 26, and he didn't win MVP--Magic Johnson did.


I'll interpret the fact you just dodged that question as, "MJ deserved it, I'm talking out of my ass."

[MiamiHeat]

Kobe isn't even the best Laker of all time.

Magic
Kareem
Wilt
Shaq

all better than him.

[Darrin]

MJ was just a one dimensional slasher who couldn't shred teams from inside and out. Actual statistics and evidence are irrelevant.

You want stats? 27-98 from downtown. That's .276 from downtown.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No, I just compared him to the other two point guards with multiple MVPs. Postseason awards mean nothing.


I'm not talking about Nash. Stay on topic.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

You want stats? 27-98 from downtown. That's .276 from downtown.


So everything else is irrelevant, 3 point shooting alone makes Kobe > MJ. Gotcha. The fact nowhere near as many 3 point shots were attempted when MJ played doesn't matter.

[Donkeybong]

Darrin :toast

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Postseason awards mean nothing.


Apparently not when someone with 1 finals MVP is comparable to someone with 6.......or is that something to do with sportswriters as well?

[Darrin]

I'll interpret the fact you just dodged that question as, "MJ deserved it, I'm talking out of my ass."

Interpret it anyway you want. The fact is, he didn't win MVP.

[Darrin]

Apparently not when someone with 1 finals MVP is comparable to someone with 6.......or is that something to do with sportswriters as well?

He hasn't played in 6 NBA Finals and he had Shaq on his team.

[Darrin]

So everything else is irrelevant, 3 point shooting alone makes Kobe > MJ. Gotcha. The fact nowhere near as many 3 point shots were attempted when MJ played doesn't matter.

No, it means that he didn't develop his jumper until later in his career. I was alive to see him nail those triples over Cliff Robinson and the should shrug. Do you know why he shrugged? Because it wasn't a staple of his game yet. That's how on fire he was.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No, it means that he didn't develop his jumper.


That's got nothing to do with the fact MJ w/o a 3 point shot > Kobe w/ a 3 point shot.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

He hasn't played in 6 NBA Finals

So the fact Jordan has and he hasn't doesn't matter?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

By that logic, you can't hold the fact Nash doesn't have a finals MVP against Nash since he's never played in the finals.

[Darrin]

So the fact Jordan has and he hasn't doesn't matter?

Jordan's career is over. Go back to my original post. Odom, Gasol, Bryant are all 30-years-old or there abouts. Andrew Bynum is 22. He has a nucleus that could last another 5 years. We'll have to see how the league shakes out after next summer, but it looks like he'll get at least one more Finals under his belt, and then he will have played in six. The book isn't closed on him yet and Jordan's is. But even if he gets 6 Finals MVPs, it doesn't mean he's as good as Jordan. If he fails to get 6, it doesn't exclude him from this talk, either.

[Darrin]

By that logic, you can't hold the fact Nash doesn't have a finals MVP against Nash since he's never played in the finals.

I don't hold that against him. I hold the fact he's never been to the Finals against him.

[ElNono]

So everything else is irrelevant, 3 point shooting alone makes Kobe > MJ. Gotcha. The fact nowhere near as many 3 point shots were attempted when MJ played doesn't matter.

Plus is this even true? A quick glance shows both Kobe and MJ to be 33% 3 point average in the playoffs...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Jordan's career is over. Go back to my original post. Odom, Gasol, Bryant are all 30-years-old or there abouts. Andrew Bynum is 22. He has a nucleus that could last another 5 years. We'll have to see how the league shakes out after next summer, but it looks like he'll get at least one more Finals under his belt, and then he will have played in six. The book isn't closed on him yet and Jordan's is.


Neat, so he'll have 2-3 while Jordan still has 6.

[MiamiHeat]

You want stats? 27-98 from downtown. That's .276 from downtown.

Has Bryant ever shot 42% from 3PT? Bryant's highest 3pt % is 38%.

Jordan did, he shot 42% :)

1995-1996 : 111-260 for 42% 3pt

also

Jordan shot 32% career 3pt. Bryant? 34%

not much of a difference there brah.

[MiamiHeat]

Plus is this even true? A quick glance shows both Kobe and MJ to be 33% 3 point average in the playoffs...

lmao

nice :)

darrin is a dumb fuck with an agenda.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

LMAO Jordan career 32.7% 3 point shooter, Kobe 34% 3 point shooter

Kobe's 3 is SOOOOOOOOOOO much better.

[Darrin]

Has Bryant ever shot 42% from 3PT? Bryant's highest 3pt % is 38%.

Jordan did, he shot 42% :)

1995-1996 : 111-260 for 42% 3pt

also

Jordan shot 32% career 3pt. Bryant? 34%

not much of a difference there brah.

Jordan shot .500 from behind the long line one year. Kobe's career isn't over. When it is, then we can compare stats, okay?

[MiamiHeat]

owned :)

[Darrin]

Plus is this even true? A quick glance shows both Kobe and MJ to be 33% 3 point average in the playoffs...

For his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1989.html

Take a look.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Jordan shot 32% career 3pt. Bryant? 34%

not much of a difference there brah.


2% is a huge difference. The 2% difference makes it blatantly obvious Jordan was an incomplete scrub who never developed a jumper while Kobe is the most complete player to ever play with an amazing jumper.

[Darrin]

owned :)

owned :)

Hey look, I can do that, too.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

For his career.


I thought we were comparing careers?

[Darrin]

2% is a huge difference. The 2% difference makes it blatantly obvious Jordan was an incomplete scrub who never developed a jumper while Kobe is the most complete player to ever play with an amazing jumper.

Not ever. They both developed their games. At the age of 26, he didn't have a jumper. Kobe did.

[MiamiHeat]

For his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1989.html

Take a look.

:lol

i just looked at kobe's 3pt percentages

he has some horrible years in there.

at least MJ shot 42% from the 3pt in 96 :) with 260 attempted shots, which is a nice big amount to make the season worth mentioning :)

[MiamiHeat]

not ever. They both developed their games. At the age of 26, he didn't have a jumper. Kobe did.

lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

At the age of 26, he didn't have a jumper. Kobe did.


Neat. Jumper or no jumper, MJ shot a much higher percentage than Kobe did at age 26, while having less NBA experience.

[Darrin]

I thought we were comparing careers?

No, did you get lost? The last I checked you were saying that Kobe's done because the Pistons held him to 37% shooting at the age of 26. I said I've seen him work on his game, I went back to comparable stats, and said that Kobe had a more complete game then, and I've watched him SINCE THAT TIME, become the most complete player in the league.

[Darrin]

Neat. Jumper or no jumper, MJ shot a much higher percentage than Kobe did at age 26, while having less NBA experience.

He was a slasher. Those are high-percentage shots.

[ElNono]

The problem with stats is that Kobe is so desperate to catch up, he fucking pads like there's no tomorrow. Take tonight's game. Lakers were up close to 30 points at some point.
Did you really need to trot out Kobe, who is nursing a groin injury, in order to win that game?
No, he just wanted to add another 40 point game against a Piston team that already have given up.

I'm actually fortunate to have seen both play, and it's really not close.

[Chieflion]

:lol

i just looked at kobe's 3pt percentages

he has some horrible years in there.

at least MJ shot 42% from the 3pt in 96 :) with 260 attempted shots, which is a nice big amount to make the season worth mentioning :)
Oh, you mean the year when the line was closer to the hoop.

[j.dizzle]

bump this shit in 2014 & we'll know then haha

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

He was a slasher. Those are high-percentage shots.


Regardless, the player who can get the highest percentage shot is the best player. 26 YO MJ > 26 YO Kobe

[iggypop123]

you already know my answer

[Darrin]

:lol

i just looked at kobe's 3pt percentages

he has some horrible years in there.

at least MJ shot 42% from the 3pt in 96 :) with 260 attempted shots, which is a nice big amount to make the season worth mentioning :)

.173
.167
.276
.182
.132
.276

That's Jordan's 3-point percentage in the first 6 seasons--to the age of 26.

[redzero]

He was a slasher. Those are high-percentage shots.

Your point? It all still counted the same. Jordan scored more points at a better rate.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Your point? It all still counted the same. Jordan scored more points at a better rate.


You must have not got the memo a jump shot counts for more than a layup.

[j.dizzle]

The problem with stats is that Kobe is so desperate to catch up, he fucking pads like there's no tomorrow. Take tonight's game. Lakers were up close to 30 points at some point.
Did you really need to trot out Kobe, who is nursing a groin injury, in order to win that game?
No, he just wanted to add another 40 point game against a Piston team that already have given up.

I'm actually fortunate to have seen both play, and it's really not close.

:lol phil started his garbage time players in the 4th & they slashed the lead in half so he had to put in kobe to guarantee the win..He should thank phil for his wack ass rotations year after year.

[ElNono]

For his career.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1989.html

Take a look.

what part of 'he didn't dominate since he started playing' you don't understand?
Also what part of 'once he started to dominate, there were no if, buts or almosts' you dont get?

And BTW, that year he started to show he was going to be a monster...

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Mehmet Okur is better than Shaq for the simple reason he developed a jumper and Shaq didn't.

[MiamiHeat]

.173
.167
.276
.182
.132
.276

That's Jordan's 3-point percentage in the first 6 seasons--to the age of 26.

.515
.457
.482
.535
.538
.526
.539
.519
.495

That's Jordan's FG% in the first 9 seasons .

[Darrin]

Your point? It all still counted the same. Jordan scored more points at a better rate.

He didn't have a 27 ppg scorer on his team. The highest a Jordan teammate ever got was 19. Jordan never played second-bannana.

And the point was what I said earlier--that Jordan couldn't shred a team with an inside-outside attack at the age of 26. He had room to grow and he did. Kobe has done the same. I was challenged on this point because Michael Jordan is God and never had a hole in his game. That is my point.

[Darrin]

.515
.457
.482
.535
.538
.526
.539
.519
.495

That's Jordan's FG% in the first 9 seasons .

My point is that he didn't have a jumper until 1990, at the age of 27. I have tape to prove it, but I can't put it online.

[ElNono]

:lol phil started his garbage time players in the 4th & they slashed the lead in half so he had to put in kobe to guarantee the win..He should thank phil for his wack ass rotations year after year.

It was still a 15 point game with 2 minutes to go... I mean, come on

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Jordan couldn't shred a team with an inside-outside attack at the age of 26.


Neither could Shaq, while Mehmet Okur could. Okur > Shaq

[MiamiHeat]

lmao

darrin isn't even worth arguing with

If God came down to play basketball, and dunked the ball every change he could get, shot 50% for his career,

according to Darrin, he is incomplete because he dunks so much. He should settle for some long range low percentage 3pters.

lmao

[Darrin]

Fortunately for him his inside attack was so dominant that didn't matter.

But it wasn't until he rounded into form that he made the Finals. It wasn't until the team could win 60 games.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

My point is that he didn't have a jumper until 1990, at the age of 27.


If that's the only point you've been trying to make the last 5 pages then fine, have your stupid point. It still does nothing to debunk the obvious reality MJ >>> Kobe.

[Darrin]

If that's the only point you've been trying to make the last 5 pages then fine, have your stupid point. It still does nothing to debunk the obvious reality MJ >>> Kobe.

No, it does. You said 'since when is 26 young' to say that Kobe didn't add to his game and didn't round out.

[MiamiHeat]

the only teams that bounced the Bulls were the Bird Celtics in 86, who went on to become NBA Champs, and the bad boy pistons for a couple years, also went on to become 2 time back to back champs. both teams among the best in NBA history, especially on defense.

and this is considering that MJ was drafted into a shitty lottery Bulls team, yet MJ immediately dragged them to the playoffs as soon as he got there. didn't take long for MJ to become unstoppable.

[ElNono]

Let's put it this way, at 29 years old, Jordan was kicking ass and taking names. And he didn't look back after that. At 30 years old, Kobe was still getting his ass kicked in an NBA Finals with a superior surrounding cast.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

But it wasn't until he rounded into form that he made the Finals. It wasn't until the team could win 60 games.


Jordan shot 27.6% from 3-land in 1989. He shot 31.2% from long range in 1991. Are you saying that the gargantuan 3.6% improvement from long range is the reason he made the finals in 1991?

[MiamiHeat]

Show me AN INSTANCE WHERE KOBE HAS "DOMINATED" an elite team. SHOW ME!

81 point game? Raptors LMAO!! Jalen Rose lmao!!!!

Finals? what he ever done? really, what has kobe ever done?


anyway, i am finished eating my lasagna. it was delicious. im off for now :)

[Darrin]

Jordan shot 27.6% from 3-land in 1989. He shot 31.2% from long range in 1991. Are you saying that the gargantuan 3.6% improvement from long range is the reason he made the finals in 1991?

No. It isn't the three-pointer, it's the jumper.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No, it does. You said 'since when is 26 young' to say that Kobe didn't add to his game and didn't round out.


So what's your point?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No. It isn't the three-pointer, it's the jumper.


The jumper obviously wasn't much better in 1991, this is evident by the minimal change in 3PT%.

[MiamiHeat]

No. It isn't the three-pointer, it's the jumper.

.515
.457
.482
.535
.538
.526
.539
.519
.495

That's Jordan's FG% in the first 9 seasons . You fail.

Kobe hasn't ever SNIFFED 50% fg. Jordan did it in his rookie year, and then a string of FIVE CONSECUTIVE SEASONS of 50% FG!

epic fail.

[ElNono]

I gotta go to sleep. Really, bitter Piston fan is delusional here.
Again, and back on topic, if Kobe would be anything close to MJ, he could get 6.
But he's not, so his chances of winning 5 more (even 2) are really dim.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

.515
.457
.482
.535
.538
.526
.539
.519
.495

That's Jordan's FG% in the first 9 seasons . You fail.

Kobe hasn't ever SNIFFED 50% fg. Jordan did it in his rookie year, and then a string of FIVE CONSECUTIVE SEASONS of 50% FG!

epic fail.


Since Kobe can shoot jumpers, his 45.5% career FG% is better than MJ's 49.7% career FG%. You should have learned that in this thread.

[MiamiHeat]

Since Kobe can shoot jumpers, his 45.5% career FG% is better than MJ's 49.7% career FG%. You should have learned that in this thread.

that 49.7% isn't even fair.

You are counting the 2 washington wizard years.

I only count the Bulls years. All of MJ's averages go up.

[dirk4mvp]

damn this thread took off

lol piston fan bitter over jordan

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No. It isn't the three-pointer, it's the jumper.


.173
.167
.276
.182
.132
.276

That's Jordan's 3-point percentage in the first 6 seasons--to the age of 26.


Try and pick a lane and stick with a please. I know it might be hard when any argument claiming Kobe = MJ can be torn apart rather easily.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

that 49.7% isn't even fair.

You are counting the 2 washington wizard years.

I only count the Bulls years. All of MJ's averages go up.


MJ's seasons with the Wizards are actually more impressive than his Bulls' career because he developed a more reliable jumper for those years.

[Donkeybong]

I admire Darrin. He entered the Lion's Den with a bunch of Jordan jockers and held his own.

It's really difficult to compare the two players due to so many variables, such as rules changes, level of competition, focul point of the offense.

Are they the best players of their respective eras? Yes
Did they each have a good supporting cast of players? Yes

The only thing I find funny, is how untouchable you make Jordan seem. I believe Jordan is the GOAT, but Kobe's career isnt over yet and he'll have something to say by the end of it.

[Donkeybong]

Show me AN INSTANCE WHERE KOBE HAS "DOMINATED" an elite team. SHOW ME!

81 point game? Raptors LMAO!! Jalen Rose lmao!!!!

Finals? what he ever done? really, what has kobe ever done?


anyway, i am finished eating my lasagna. it was delicious. im off for now :)

Kobe 62 Mavs 61

[Darrin]

Try and pick a lane and stick with a please. I know it might be hard when any argument claiming Kobe = MJ can be torn apart rather easily.

I did. You asked for a stat, I gave you one. I have tape, but I can't put it online.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Are they the best players of their respective eras? Yes
Did they each have a good supporting cast of players? Yes


There have been countless debates and arguments about whether Duncan or Kobe was more dominant during the 2000's, I don't understand why it's a sure thing Kobe was the best player in his respective era. There's not even a question about which player dominated the 1990's.

[Darrin]

You must have not got the memo a jump shot counts for more than a layup.

It's about spacing. It's about making yourself complete and unguaradable, which Jordan did. It about evolving and growing in your game.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

In the decade MJ dominated, he had 4 MVPs and 6 finals MVPs. No other player had more than 1 MVP or more than 2 finals MVPs.

In the decade Kobe supposedly "dominated", he had 1 MVP and 1 finals MVP, while another player had 2 MVPs and 2 finals MVPs.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's about spacing. It's about making yourself complete and unguaradable, which Jordan did. It about evolving and growing in your game.


The player who scores more points at a more efficient rate is the more unguardable player. Plain and simple.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I did. You asked for a stat, I gave you one.


And then said it didn't matter.

[Darrin]

In the decade MJ dominated, he had 4 MVPs and 6 finals MVPs. No other player had more than 1 MVP or more than 2 finals MVPs.

In the decade Kobe supposedly "dominated", he had 1 MVP and 1 finals MVP, while another player had 2 MVPs and 2 finals MVPs.

By that argument, Steve Nash and Tim Duncan are the best players of the decade. Do you really think that's true? He dominated the opinions of his time. Wow, what an accomplishment. Postseason Awards mean nothing.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

By that argument, Steve Nash and Tim Duncan are the best players of the decade.


Really? Nash has two finals MVP's? I didn't know that.

2 rings, faggot.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Postseason Awards mean nothing.


I wasn't aware you made the rules about which awards mean something/nothing

[Purple & Gold]

In the decade MJ dominated, he had 4 MVPs and 6 finals MVPs. No other player had more than 1 MVP or more than 2 finals MVPs.

In the decade Kobe supposedly "dominated", he had 1 MVP and 1 finals MVP, while another player had 2 MVPs and 2 finals MVPs.

While MJ is better than Kobe, mainly because he kept improving every single year and was a better defensive player. He played in the watered down 90's. The League is much harder now. I don't see Jordan winning as many titles now as he did then. Kobe will probably get his 6 Rings because his goal is to pass Jordan over anything. If he wins 7 then we can start the discussion.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

While MJ is better than Kobe, mainly because he kept improving every single year and was a better defensive player. He played in the watered down 90's. The League is much harder now. I don't see Jordan winning as many titles now as he did then. Kobe will probably get his 6 Rings because his goal is to pass Jordan over anything. If he wins 7 then we can start the discussion.

:lmao

[Purple & Gold]

90's were watered down by expansion.

[Shaquille O'Neal]

the early part of the era was pretty ugly, with basically 3 or 4 good teams, LA, San Antonio, Sacramento, Portland/Dallas.

[Purple & Gold]

And the East wasn't much better. Magic got sick, Bird retired, Isiah got old. All the stars faded and only Jordan remained. Then add in expansion and Phil Jackson and it was over.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And the East wasn't much better. Magic got sick, Bird retired, Isiah got old. All the stars faded and only Jordan remained. Then add in expansion and Phil Jackson and it was over.


The 2000 Pacers, 2001 76ers, 2002 Nets and 2009 Magic are WAY worse than any team MJ played in the finals.

[cobbler]

If he does, there will be a shitload of Lakers fans claiming that he's in discussion with Jordan as the best of all time, as if merely having six rings makes him eligible.

It's been discussed ad naseum already. The more he wins the more it will be brought up.

And the answer to the OP is NO. He will end up with more than 6. Count on it.

[Purple & Gold]

The 2000 Pacers, 2001 76ers, 2002 Nets and 2009 Magic are WAY worse than any team MJ played in the finals.

Yeah but getting out of the West was murder. Portland, Sacramento, Spurs, Lakers those were some very good teams. Much harder then the Cavs and Knicks.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yeah but getting out of the West was murder. Portland, Sacramento, Spurs, Lakers those were some very good teams. Much harder then the Cavs and Knicks.


Later on though the East was plenty hard with Orlando, Miami and New York. The competition level is close enough you can't easily give one player advantage over another.

[cobbler]

It's actually aggravated by the fact that Shaq at the time was still in his prime and is probably going to retire as one of the Top 3 best centers ever to play the game.

Not even in the top 5.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Not even in the top 5.


Lazy or not, there really isn't anyone other than Kareem or Wilt who accomplished more than Shaq. His problem is he's been a journeyman his entire career. It's kinda sad the 5th all time scoring leader has no team to associate with.

[cobbler]

Some people also forget that there was no hand-check bullshit rules back when MJ was playing. It's a guard game now, but back then big men ruled.

Some people also forget the league was watered down then too with the expansion and the Lakers and Detroit teams beginnign to retool.

[cobbler]

Lazy or not, there really isn't anyone other than Kareem or Wilt who accomplished more than Shaq. His problem is he's been a journeyman his entire career. It's kinda sad the 5th all time scoring leader has no team to associate with.

Kareem
Wilt
Akeem
Russell
Mikan

...in no particular order all accomplished more.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Kareem
Wilt
Akeem
Russell
Mikan

...in no particular order all accomplished more.


Hakeem has not accomplished more than Shaq.

[Purple & Gold]

Later on though the East was plenty hard with Orlando, Miami and New York. The competition level is close enough you can't easily give one player advantage over another.

Shaq left in 96 Miami and the Pacers stepped up, but the Cavs fell off. In the West the suns and Dallas came up. The League overall is harder now because players are just more talented. The boost from the Euroleagues after the Dream Team has been a main reason. There's just a bigger talent pool and better players out there now.

[cobbler]

The problem with stats is that Kobe is so desperate to catch up, he fucking pads like there's no tomorrow. Take tonight's game. Lakers were up close to 30 points at some point.
Did you really need to trot out Kobe, who is nursing a groin injury, in order to win that game?
No, he just wanted to add another 40 point game against a Piston team that already have given up.

I'm actually fortunate to have seen both play, and it's really not close.

Did you actually watch the game? The 2nd string dwindled the lead down to 8 and would have been 6 had the Pistons converted 2 free throws.

If you are going to make a point... you should at least do your homework.

And the piston team never gave up. Your Kobe hater glasses obviously clouded your vision.

[Darrin]

Lazy or not, there really isn't anyone other than Kareem or Wilt who accomplished more than Shaq. His problem is he's been a journeyman his entire career. It's kinda sad the 5th all time scoring leader has no team to associate with.

Why? The former 5th All-time Leading scorer played for 8 teams. He's Moses Malone, not Wilt Chamberlain. He's not that great. I'd take Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Robert Parish, Bob Lanier, and Dave Cowens over him. He talks like he's the most dominant ever, and he really didn't show it. He had a good three-year run and that was about it.

[duhoh]

the GOAT discussion is untouchable right now.

we'll see when it's all said and done for kobe though

[cobbler]

Show me AN INSTANCE WHERE KOBE HAS "DOMINATED" an elite team. SHOW ME!

81 point game? Raptors LMAO!! Jalen Rose lmao!!!!

Finals? what he ever done? really, what has kobe ever done?


anyway, i am finished eating my lasagna. it was delicious. im off for now :)

Spurs in 2004 conference semis

Utah and spurs 2008 conference semis and WCF

just off the top of my head.


Now STFU.

[MiamiHeat]

He did not dominate ANY of those teams

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I'd take Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Robert Parish, Bob Lanier, and Dave Cowens over him.

:lmao

[cobbler]

Hakeem has not accomplished more than Shaq.

He won 2 titles practically on his own. He used Shaq just about every time they played. He was a better player than Shaq with less size and less in terms of team.

[MiamiHeat]

Hakeem was not better than Shaq.

[Darrin]

:lmao

That's about how I feel about Shaq being in the all-time greatest discussion.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

He won 2 titles practically on his own. He used Shaq just about every time they played. He was a better player than Shaq with less size and less in terms of team.


Maybe 1 title on his own. The other 1 he had Drexler.

[Darrin]

Hakeem was not better than Shaq.

They're different players, but Hakeem was a lock-down defender with better footwork than the Diesel could ever dream of.

[Darrin]

Maybe 1 title on his own. The other 1 he had Drexler.

And they turned back Shaq. Shaq always had Kobe or Wade by that argument.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And they turned back Shaq. Shaq always had Kobe or Wade by that argument.


The Kobe Shaq had in 2000 was nothing.

[cobbler]

Why? The former 5th All-time Leading scorer played for 8 teams. He's Moses Malone, not Wilt Chamberlain. He's not that great. I'd take Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Robert Parish, Bob Lanier, and Dave Cowens over him. He talks like he's the most dominant ever, and he really didn't show it. He had a good three-year run and that was about it.

He could have gone down as the best ever. He was too lazy and couldn't keep away from his own ego to do so.

He is not in the top 5 no matter what the BS hype.

I love how a lot of guys on here argue points about games and eras they were not even alive for or walking around in diapers. It's all about media perception etc... Just as awards like MVP's are.

MJ was a great player. Kobe is a great player. Kobe hasnt fininshed and so the argument cannot be made either way. It's absurd to compare eras anyway.

Phil has gone on record as saying Kobe is a more skilled offensive player and Jordan was a better defender. He continued on to say the only advantage he felt MJ had over Kobe was his big mitts. But hey... all you guys obviously know more than PJ. :lol

[cobbler]

He did not dominate ANY of those teams

Look it up moron. He dominated the series. Ask Pop and the spurs fans who owned them... Shaq or Kobe.

[cobbler]

Hakeem was not better than Shaq.

Hakeem USED Shaq on a regular basis. Sent him home with a sweep in his first finals and it never changed after that. Shaqs happiest moment was when Akeem retired.

[cobbler]

The Kobe Shaq had in 2000 was nothing.

http://www.kobebryantshoes.com/game_logs/2000_playoffs_game_log.htm

That's a bit more than nothing!

[Purple & Gold]

http://www.kobebryantshoes.com/game_logs/2000_playoffs_game_log.htm

That's a bit more than nothing!

I don't think there's a comeback for this one :toast

[ElNono]

I admire Darrin. He entered the Lion's Den with a bunch of Jordan jockers and held his own.

It's really difficult to compare the two players due to so many variables, such as rules changes, level of competition, focul point of the offense.

Are they the best players of their respective eras? Yes
Did they each have a good supporting cast of players? Yes

The only thing I find funny, is how untouchable you make Jordan seem. I believe Jordan is the GOAT, but Kobe's career isnt over yet and he'll have something to say by the end of it.

I gather reading is not your thing?

Kobe will have something to say by the time he retires: I can't touch MJ with a 10 foot pole.

[ElNono]

By that argument, Steve Nash and Tim Duncan are the best players of the decade. Do you really think that's true? He dominated the opinions of his time. Wow, what an accomplishment. Postseason Awards mean nothing.

LOL @ Tim Duncan 'dominating the opinions of the time'. Are you gonna argue that Duncan has better press than Kobe? :lmao

[ElNono]

Some people also forget the league was watered down then too with the expansion and the Lakers and Detroit teams beginnign to retool.

Wow... just wow. Kobe lost to a Pistons team that had no superstar. I mean, if that's not the definition of watered down, I don't know what to tell you. The Spurs rolled through the 2007 playoffs also pretty much uncontested, against watered down competition.
Even right now, you have maybe 3 or 4 true contenders, and that's about it.
Sorry, but the watered down bullcrap is just that, bullcrap.

[wanggi]

All of NBA fans at least know two things: The Lakers aren't Title contender if Gasol isn't there and no matter how many rings Coldbee can get he's still a Rapist/wife cheater.

:lol

[ElNono]

Look it up moron. He dominated the series. Ask Pop and the spurs fans who owned them... Shaq or Kobe.

In 2004? We couldn't buy a bucket from outside and we couldn't score inside because you guys had Shaq and Malone. Kobe had very little to do with it.
I would actually tell you Malone was MVP of that series. Shame he got injured in it and couldn't play the Finals.

It's also actually interesting that you bring up the two years where Kobe purportedly dominated, and followed that with a quick exit on the NBA Finals.

[ElNono]

http://www.kobebryantshoes.com/game_logs/2000_playoffs_game_log.htm

That's a bit more than nothing!

If you're trying to make our point that the games where he scored the most his team lost, you're doing a great job. Because that's what that chart is telling me.

[ElNono]

Did you actually watch the game? The 2nd string dwindled the lead down to 8 and would have been 6 had the Pistons converted 2 free throws.

If you are going to make a point... you should at least do your homework.

And the piston team never gave up. Your Kobe hater glasses obviously clouded your vision.

I did watch the game... from the recap:

From the 3rd quarter:

06:36 [LAL 69-47] Bryant Jump Bank Shot: Made (25 PTS)
06:36 [LAL 70-47] Bryant Free Throw 1 of 1
01:54 [LAL 85-61] Bryant Turnaround Fade Away shot: Made (33 PTS)

4th quarter:

05:58 [LAL 95-78] Bryant Fade Away Jumper Shot: Made (37 PTS)


From there on out, he started to clank them. It's also funny that lakerfan says scrubs wasted the lead when Kobe was playing the entire time. He missed all his shots until the 3 pointer at the very end, when the game was decided.

[wanggi]

I did watch the game... from the recap:

From the 3rd quarter:

06:36 [LAL 69-47] Bryant Jump Bank Shot: Made (25 PTS)
06:36 [LAL 70-47] Bryant Free Throw 1 of 1
01:54 [LAL 85-61] Bryant Turnaround Fade Away shot: Made (33 PTS)

4th quarter:

05:58 [LAL 95-78] Bryant Fade Away Jumper Shot: Made (37 PTS)


From there on out, he started to clank them. It's also funny that lakerfan says scrubs wasted the lead when Kobe was playing the entire time. He missed all his shots until the 3 pointer at the very end, when the game was decided.

Kobe = MSP = self-centred :hat

[Donkeybong]

I did watch the game... from the recap:

From the 3rd quarter:

06:36 [LAL 69-47] Bryant Jump Bank Shot: Made (25 PTS)
06:36 [LAL 70-47] Bryant Free Throw 1 of 1
01:54 [LAL 85-61] Bryant Turnaround Fade Away shot: Made (33 PTS)

4th quarter:

05:58 [LAL 95-78] Bryant Fade Away Jumper Shot: Made (37 PTS)


From there on out, he started to clank them. It's also funny that lakerfan says scrubs wasted the lead when Kobe was playing the entire time. He missed all his shots until the 3 pointer at the very end, when the game was decided.

Elnono is the worst debater ever.

0:00Detroit offensive rebound63-88 0:00End of the 3rd Quarter

Notice the score before Kobe enters

8:07 76-91 Official timeout 8:07 76-91Kobe Bryant enters the game for Ron Artest
We only managed to score 3 points in about 4 minutes of play. If you think he only re-entered to pad his stats than I cant help you with your Kobe issues. We needed scoring and stabilizer out there.



And for those of you who missed it:

qJt-pEj2wSo

[Chieflion]

Elnono is the worst debater ever.

0:00Detroit offensive rebound63-88 0:00End of the 3rd Quarter

Notice the score before Kobe enters

8:07 76-91 Official timeout 8:07 76-91Kobe Bryant enters the game for Ron Artest
We only managed to score 3 points in about 4 minutes of play. If you think he only re-entered to pad his stats than I cant help you with your Kobe issues. We needed scoring and stabilizer out there.



And for those of you who missed it:

qJt-pEj2wSo
Up by 26, before the basket, Kobe was still in the game. That is all you need to know.

[Donkeybong]

Up by 26, before the basket, Kobe was still in the game. That is all you need to know.

To display Kobe's greatness. I agree. He was on a role and was making almost every shot. Any coach would keep his hottest player in the game up until the end of the quarter. You haters never cease to amaze me.

[ElNono]

To display Kobe's greatness. I agree. He was on a role and was making almost every shot. Any coach would keep his hottest player in the game up until the end of the quarter. You haters never cease to amaze me.

You suck at this, just stop.

Even lakerfans have been asking in game threads this season WTF is Kobe doing out there when the game is clearly over.

[lefty]

Now that the Blazers have arrived Kobe will never win another ring. NEVER!
I was expecting that one :lol

[lefty]

Hakeem was not better than Shaq.
What ? :lmao :rollin

[TheMACHINE]

Sorry to post in here since i am a Lakers fan...this will be my only post...but props to Darrin for putting up a fight agianst the biggest Kobe haters on this board. He pretty much crashed a "kobe hater party". Its like a "crip" going to a "blood" party.

[Donkeybong]

You suck at this, just stop.

Even lakerfans have been asking in game threads this season WTF is Kobe doing out there when the game is clearly over.

Show me an example of an example of a lakerfan getting upset over Kobe being out on the floor in the 3rd of this last game. Our bench has dwindled leads like clockwork this season. And it's not like Kobe was on the floor to start the 4rth. He was calling it a night before Detroit went on a run. Try again.

[ElNono]

Show me an example of an example of a lakerfan getting upset over Kobe being out on the floor in the 3rd of this last game. Our bench has dwindled leads like clockwork this season. And it's not like Kobe was on the floor to start the 4rth. He was calling it a night before Detroit went on a run. Try again.

Bullshit.
What part of this:



4th quarter:

05:58 [LAL 95-78] Bryant Fade Away Jumper Shot: Made (37 PTS)


you don't understand?

That's a 17 point lead midway through the 4th. That's when the Lakers actually started to lose their lead. And Kobe was in the middle of it, missing shots until the 3 pointer at the end.

05:35 Bryant Foul : Offensive (5 PF)
04:17 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
03:03 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
01:59 Bryant Layup Shot: Missed

Here's the game log: LINK (http://www.nba.com/games/20091117/DETLAL/gameinfo.html)

Did you actually watch the game? You don't get to rewrite history because your lips are stuck on Kobe's dick.

[Donkeybong]

Bullshit.
What part of this:



you don't understand?

That's a 17 point lead midway through the 4th. That's when the Lakers actually started to lose their lead. And Kobe was in the middle of it, missing shots until the 3 pointer at the end.

05:35 Bryant Foul : Offensive (5 PF)
04:17 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
03:03 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
01:59 Bryant Layup Shot: Missed

Here's the game log: LINK (http://www.nba.com/games/20091117/DETLAL/gameinfo.html)

Did you actually watch the game? You don't get to rewrite history because your lips are stuck on Kobe's dick.


Lakers started to lose their lead at the beginning of the 4rth before Kobe came in. Did you conveniently forget how i mentioned there was a 4 minute period where we only scored 3 points at the beginning of the 4rth quarter, where detroit made a run to cut the lead in half? Kobe re-entered the game and Lakers made a little run of their own. Try again dumbfuck.

[ElNono]

Lakers started to lose their lead at the beginning of the 4rth before Kobe came in. Did you conveniently forget how i mentioned there was a 4 minute period where we only scored 3 points at the beginning of the 4rth quarter, where detroit made a run to cut the lead in half? Kobe re-entered the game and Lakers made a little run of their own. Try again dumbfuck.

They had a 15 point lead when Kobe went back in, hardly a dire situation.
It actually didn't improve at all with him in there. Lakers actually ended up pulling away at the 1:38 mark when Shannon Brown hit his free throws.

You're arguing with the play by play log at this point... so, STFU and stay quiet please.

[DrHouse]

Clearly Donkeybong watched the game and ElNono didn't.

Kobe was in the game because Phil did not trust the bench. And he was right because they damn near blew the lead. He was not in there to stat pad.

[ElNono]

Clearly I had to come in the aid of my fellow Kobe cockgobbler, being one myself.

[YellowFever]

This thread is funny as hell.

Like it or not Jordan jock sniffers, Kobe WILL be mention in the same breath as Jordan in the next few years because that's what sports writers do.

And you all will be pissed off......yes the same way Magic fans were when Jordan was starting to be mentioned in the same breath as Magic......the same way Chamberlin fans were piss off when Magic was being compared to him.....the same way Russell fans were pissed when Chamberlin was beginning to be compared to Rusell...etc....etc.

Yes the same way Kobe fans are pissed now when Lebron or Wade is being compared to Kobe now.

This argument has been invented right after sports was invented.

So stop wasting your time.

[ElNono]

And Laker fans, don't even bother to post, I already know your answers

[YellowFever]

Elnino...watch the fucking game next time...you're making a fool of yourself.

[ElNono]

Elnino...watch the fucking game next time...you're making a fool of yourself.


And Laker fans, don't even bother to post, I already know your answers

[TheMACHINE]

lefty knows the Lakers fan answers of "will he retire with 6 rings"...not if Kobe pads his stats. ;)

[Strike]

Only if he wins 2 more. Otherwise, no.

[Darrin]

Wow... just wow. Kobe lost to a Pistons team that had no superstar. I mean, if that's not the definition of watered down, I don't know what to tell you. The Spurs rolled through the 2007 playoffs also pretty much uncontested, against watered down competition.
Even right now, you have maybe 3 or 4 true contenders, and that's about it.
Sorry, but the watered down bullcrap is just that, bullcrap.

Jordan came into the league 23 teams and when he retired in 2003, there were 29.

Vancouver Grizzlies and Toronto Raptors (1995-96, the year the Bulls won 72)
The Bulls were a combined 5-1 against the expansion teams that year. Notable players the could've been on other rosters include Damon Stoudamire (Rookie of the Year), Bryant Reeves, Doug Christie, Tony Massenberg, Tracy Murray, Greg Anthony, and Byron Scott.

Minnesota Timberwolves (1989-90)
In Jordan's time in the league, notable players include Kevin Garnett, Pooh Richardson, Tom Gugliotta, Christian Laettner, Stephon Marbury, Sam Mitchell, Luc Longley, Isaiah Rider and Donyell Marshall.

Charlotte Hornets (1988-89)
In Jordan's time in the league, notable players include Larry Johnson, Alonzo Mourning, Dell Curry, Mugsy Bogues, Rex Chapman, Johnny Newman, Kobe Bryant, David Wesley, and Bobby Phills.


Miami Heat (1988-89)
Kevin Edwards, Glen Rice, Rony Seikley, Grant Long, Steve Smith, Matt Geiger, Voshon Lenard, Kurt Thomas, Bruce Bowen,


Orlando Magic (1989-90)
In Jordan's time in the league, notable players (read like a Hall-of-Fame ballot) Shaquille O'Neal, Chris Webber, Anfernee Hardaway, Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson, Scott Skiles, Terry Catledge, Brian Williams, Darrell Armstrong and Bo Outlaw.

[ElNono]

Jordan came into the league 24 teams and when he retired in 2003, there were 29.

Vancouver Grizzlies and Toronto Raptors (1995-96, the year the Bulls won 72)
The Bulls were a combined 5-1 against the expansion teams that year. Notable players the could've been on other rosters include Damon Stoudamire (Rookie of the Year), Bryant Reeves, Doug Christie, Tony Massenberg, Tracy Murray, Greg Anthony, and Byron Scott.

This is the only team added to the league since he started to dominate (1991).

You're telling me that Stockton, Malone, DRob, Hakeem, Drexler, Isiah, Ewing, Pippen, Barkley, Dumars were a piece of cake to play against night in and night out? They didn't play in games Jordan played?

And I'm just listing mostly HOFs. I'm missing a bunch of second tier, very talented players also, and other HOFs coming from the 80's (Magic, Bird).
That was his competition and he flat out dominated.

[ElNono]

lefty knows the Lakers fan answers of "will he retire with 6 rings"...not if Kobe pads his stats. ;)

If dropping 81 on a shit Toronto team doesn't really tells you the story, then you need to have yourself checked...

[ElNono]

So lefty, is this the next obstacle to deny Kobe his due? He has to win 6?

I thought Kobe got his due already. Being League MVP, Finals MVP and doing all that without Shaq's shade. Most every fan will tell you he's the best player in the game right now.

What else is due?

[TheMACHINE]

If dropping 81 on a shit Toronto team doesn't really tells you the story, then you need to have yourself checked...

i held my tongue the whole thread but ur a fucking idiot if you think the Lakers didnt need him to go nuts to even get back into that game.

[TheMACHINE]

also...u shouldnt use the 81 point game as an example cuz everyone and thier mom (except for haters) wanted him to pad thoses after he hit 60 points.

[DrHouse]

i held my tongue the whole thread but ur a fucking idiot if you think the Lakers didnt need him to go nuts to even get back into that game.

I think deep down he knows he is wrong but he backed himself into a corner early on in this thread.

[Darrin]

This is the only team added to the league since he started to dominate (1991).

You're telling me that Stockton, Malone, DRob, Hakeem, Drexler, Isiah, Ewing, Pippen, Barkley, Dumars were a piece of cake to play against night in and night out? They didn't play in games Jordan played?

And I'm just listing mostly HOFs. I'm missing a bunch of second tier, very talented players also, and other HOFs coming from the 80's (Magic, Bird).
That was his competition and he flat out dominated.

You can't have it both ways. If we're using 1990-91 as a measuring stick, Magic wouldn't last past the Finals, Bird would retire a year later. Isiah Thomas, a shell of himself, and Dumars were losing in Detroit because they had no talent around them. 1990-91 is known as the last hurrah around here because it was the last time the Pistons would win a playoff series until 2001-02. They'd make the playoffs in 1992, but they wouldn't be back until Jordan was retired, unretired, and won 72 games. Barkley switched Conferences in 1992. And the rest of the players you mentioned he saw twice a year thanks to expansion (changes in the schedule).

You're lacking imagination. The Minnesota Timberwolves didn't sniff .500 until 1997. Part of the Bulls domination was against these teams.

Postseason Series Against the Bulls:
Miami (1992, 1997),
Orlando (1995, 1996),
Charlotte (1996, 1998),

The teams drained the pool of talent that affected Jordan's era. He was still dominating while these franchises were learning how to play.


And I want to be clear--this isn't to diminish what he accomplished. But the Stern-era expansion is the larger than the ABA/NBA merger. You can't say it wasn't watered-down.

[ElNono]

also...u shouldnt use the 81 point game as an example cuz everyone and thier mom (except for haters) wanted him to pad thoses after he hit 60 points.

So you agree he was padding stats... gotcha.
LOL washed up Jalen Rose...

[ElNono]

You can't have it both ways. If we're using 1990-91 as a measuring stick, Magic wouldn't last past the Finals, Bird would retire a year later. Isiah Thomas, a shell of himself, and Dumars were losing in Detroit because they had no talent around them. 1990-91 is known as the last hurrah around here because it was the last time the Pistons would win a playoff series until 2001-02. They'd make the playoffs in 1992, but they wouldn't be back until Jordan was retired, unretired, and won 72 games. Barkley switched Conferences in 1992. And the rest of the players you mentioned he saw twice a year thanks to expansion (changes in the schedule).

You're lacking imagination. The Minnesota Timberwolves didn't sniff .500 until 1997. Part of the Bulls domination was against these teams.

Postseason Series Against the Bulls:
Miami (1992, 1997),
Orlando (1995, 1996),
Charlotte (1996, 1998),

The teams drained the pool of talent that affected Jordan's era. He was still dominating while these franchises were learning how to play.

And I want to be clear--this isn't to diminish what he accomplished. But the Stern-era expansion is the larger than the ABA/NBA merger. You can't say it wasn't watered-down.

Now you're being completely disingenuous. You mention 4 expansion teams up there. How could you claim the Bulls were dominating only those teams and yet winning 72 games in a season? At MOST they were playing those teams, what, 12 games a season?

Not to mention that even if you argue talent was diluted then, it's not much better now at all. There's one more team (30 total), and there's really only 4 or 5 teams you could claim are title contenders.

I actually argue that due to the recent rule changes that favor guards, Jordan would actually have been even more dominant now than before.
Obviously, it's impossible to prove.

[Darrin]

Now you're being completely disingenuous.

No, you're missing the point.

[TheMACHINE]

So you agree he was padding stats... gotcha.
LOL washed up Jalen Rose...

i agree...after he scored around the 70 point mark, the rest was probably padding stats.

Did you think he was padding stats when he got 63 points against the mavs and sat the whole 4th?

[ElNono]

No, you're missing the point.

We got your point on page 1. You're a completely bitter Piston fan.
I can only imagine how painful the 90's were for you.

[ElNono]

i agree...after he scored around the 70 point mark, the rest was probably padding stats.

Did you think he was padding stats when he got 62 points against the mavs and sat the whole 4th?

Considering the Lakers were up 34, I would say yeah, he was definitely padding stats. And I'm fairly sure if Phil didn't have the decency to sit him down at that point, Kobe would have gladly kept on playing.

Now, don't get me wrong. It takes a lot of talent to score 30 points all by himself in a quarter. And Kobe should get all the credit for being a very talented player. That's certainly out of the question.

[HarlemHeat37]

The funniest part was that they barely double-teamed him, even when he was torching them..also that they had scrubs guarding him, but Raptors didn't really have any notable defenders anyways..

I remember how outraged the local media was in TO after the game..it was a very low-point for the Raptors, and had a big part in talks of how soft of a team they were, and how they needed a guy that would have knocked Kobe on his ass..

It was definitely stat-padding and horrible competition, but it's amazing anybody does anything like that..

his 60+ through 3 was more impressive IMO..

[Darrin]

We got your point on page 1. You're a completely bitter Piston fan.
I can only imagine how painful the 90's were for you.

They were painful as a Piston fan, but I got over it a long time ago. If you're wondering when, it was around the time Joe Dumars was trading Grant Hill to Orlando for Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins. I still had a Jordan poster on my wall in 1992. My favorite team has little-to-no effect on how I view Jordan, except I live in a town that put the 1989 Conference Finals on DVD.

[cobbler]

Bullshit.
What part of this:



you don't understand?

That's a 17 point lead midway through the 4th. That's when the Lakers actually started to lose their lead. And Kobe was in the middle of it, missing shots until the 3 pointer at the end.

05:35 Bryant Foul : Offensive (5 PF)
04:17 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
03:03 Bryant 3pt Shot: Missed
01:59 Bryant Layup Shot: Missed

Here's the game log: LINK (http://www.nba.com/games/20091117/DETLAL/gameinfo.html)

Did you actually watch the game? You don't get to rewrite history because your lips are stuck on Kobe's dick.

Did you forget they were up by more than 25? Kobe was on the bench at the start of the 4th. The announcers even made the comment that they hoped the reserves could maintain the lead so he didnt have to retrun. They didnt... he did.

Not sure why I repy to anything you post... you are a complete moron and your hatred clouds your vision.

[cobbler]

If dropping 81 on a shit Toronto team doesn't really tells you the story, then you need to have yourself checked...

Yeah... Toronto was so soft I think 5 or 6 guys dropped 80 on them that year. :lol

[Darrin]

Did you forget they were up by more than 25? Kobe was on the bench at the start of the 4th. The announcers even made the comment that they hoped the reserves could maintain the lead so he didnt have to retrun. They didnt... he did.

Not sure why I repy to anything you post... you are a complete moron and your hatred clouds your vision.

This reminds me of the 1997 game at the Palace when Doug Collins broke down in tears because the Pistons beat his former team, the Chicago Bulls. Does that make Michael less of a dominant force in 1997? No. It means he lost games in his career. One game isn't indicative of an entire career.

[ElNono]

Yeah... Toronto was so soft I think 5 or 6 guys dropped 80 on them that year. :lol

Now you're going to tell me that a washed up Jalen Rose was DPOY?
I already said there's no argument that Kobe is incredibly talented, and not everyone has the talent to drop 60+, even on a shit team. That doesn't mean that Toronto team was not crap. And that's certainly not what we're discussing here.

It's amazing to me how butthurt lakerfan gets over the realization that Kobe is simply not going to be able to match MJ. It's no knock on Kobe. I mean, the guy works hard, tries his best every night, tries to catchup to MJ's legacy on every game and he's undeniably going to retire as one of the better players to have played the game.

[Darrin]

Now you're going to tell me that a washed up Jalen Rose was DPOY?
I already said there's no argument that Kobe is incredibly talented, and not everyone has the talent to drop 60+, even on a shit team. That doesn't mean that Toronto team was not crap. And that's certainly not what we're discussing here.

The New York Knickerbockers were horrible defensively in 1962. They gave up 119.7 ppg, 6th in the league (of 9). They were 29-51. And on March 2, 1962, they gave up 100 points to Wilt Chamberlain. I was 2-months old on the 22nd anniversary of this game, so it's needless to say that I didn't see it. There's literally no tape on it. But considering those statistics, it's not Wilt was picking on the NBA Champions for his dominant individual performance.

[ElNono]

The New York Knickerbockers were horribly defensively in 1962. They gave up 119.7 ppg, 6th in the league (of 9). They were 29-51. And on March 2, 1962, they gave up 100 points to Wilt Chamberlain. I was 2-months old on the 22nd anniversary of this game, so it's needless to say that I didn't see it. There's literally no tape on it. But considering those statistics, it's not Wilt was picking on the NBA Champions for his dominant individual performance.

That tells me Wilt Chamberlain was incredibly talented, which is, again, not what we're discussing here. Wilt did much more than drop 100 on the Knicks. You and I both know that.