Turnovers a problem for the Spurs

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

28 frigging turnovers against the Bobcats?

Is it me or the Spurs havent been protecting the rock well this season and thats a big cause of our problems as well.

[HarlemHeat37]

I haven't noticed..

[angelbelow]

A handful of them are from the players being too unselfish. The other turnovers...

[gospursgojas]

They're costing wins against good teams, and keeping bad teams in the game.

Its getting ridiculous.

I say its bc of all the new faces, but even more its with the constant changing lineups. Never in the tim, tony, manu era have there been so many different line ups game to game

[duncan228]

Duncan, post game.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x282/duncan228/2009-2010/12-11-09postq3.jpg

http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/091211_duncan.html

[VI_Massive]

This just in! Breaking news!

[SenorSpur]

I've said it before and it bears repeating. There is absolutely no excuse for a veteran team, like the Spurs, to amass the rash of turnovers that they do from game-to-game. I don't give a shit about new players and system familiarity, because it seems the longest-tenured players are making the most mistakes. Parker in particular.

The book is out on the Spurs as being a turnover-prone team. Which means that every team opponent will continue to make attempts to strip, swipe, rake and whatever else they must do to force them into turnovers. This doesn't take in account for the stupid, bone-headed, unforced turnovers the Spurs make on their own.

This team needs to concentrate more on making good decisions and minimize the careless mistakes.

[easy7]

Well, it helped that the Bobcats had 20+ turnovers also, but the good teams will not give you that luxury.

[SpurNation]

Bobcats 3rd in the league in defensive efficiency had some to do with that. Plus Parker learning (yeah "learning") to be a better distributor. I'll accept that "learning" curve if it helps the team become a better ball movement team in the near future.

If this is still a problem by the end of February...then I'd be very concerned.

[SpursRulez4eVeR]

A handful of them are from the players being too unselfish. The other turnovers...

yea...i noticed serveral times dice kicks it out when he's right underneath the basket...sometimes he finds people but most of time it results in turnovers :nope

[wildbill2u]

28 frigging turnovers against the Bobcats?

Is it me or the Spurs havent been protecting the rock well this season and thats a big cause of our problems as well.


Most turnovers are sloppy, unfocused play. Duncan had several bad passes last night. Tony is losing the ball with regularity. 28 turnovers in one night is a joke. Spurs teams used to have that many in a week or a month.

Sometimes it feels like these guys don't have the intensity a team with a deep bench needs to play with night after night. There is no killer instinct, just a bunch of guys out there playing.

Maybe they sub-consciously think they are better and don't try as hard. Pop better get them focused like the 1999 club. That team was focused. Even when behind in the 4th you somehow had the feeling that they would pull it out every time.

This team is sloppy and it shows in the w/l column.

[exstatic]

Well, it helped that the Bobcats had 20+ turnovers also, but the good teams will not give you that luxury.

That, and the fact that the Spurs shot lights out, kept us up most of the night, and allowed us to pull away.

Tony has gotten terrible on the kickout pass. There have been a number of times there's a man open on the wing, he drives in, and kicks out a pass...that is SO HIGH Shawn fucking Bradley wouldn't have caught it. Memo to Tony: Bogans is 6'4" and Manu is 6'6".

[LOL@MavsFan]

28 frigging turnovers against the Bobcats?

Is it me or the Spurs havent been protecting the rock well this season and thats a big cause of our problems as well.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/avatars/avaparker.jpg (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=650) <------7 by this prick alone. I swear he has to have at least 15 turnovers the past couple games. He needs to get his fucking head in the game and stop thinking about Eva banging his bro.:bang

[mookie2001]

parker cannot not travel 4 times a game

at least last year he only traveled 3 times a game

[exstatic]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/images/avatars/avaparker.jpg (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=650) <------7 by this prick alone. I swear he has to have at least 15 turnovers the past couple games. He needs to get his fucking head in the game and stop thinking about Eva banging his bro.:bang

Maybe Pop needs to take the reins back and call the plays for a while. Tony just isn't making good decisions. His asst/TO ratio of 1.82 isn't even acceptable for a shooting guard, and is the lowest of his career.

[benefactor]

I haven't noticed..


This just in! Breaking news!

[The Truth #6]

If the team practices running the break then hopefully some off these mistakes will come down. Then again, maybe they already are and we just completely suck at fastbreaking.

As boring as it sounds I think the team should just grind the game down and make it ugly and focus on perfecting the half-court offense. A lot of these mistakes seem to come from pushing the tempo. I'm not sure if we have anyone who can direct the break properly.

I think we should continue to focus RJ on the offense but I'm torn about us trying to get "easy" baskets because it seems to be causing us problems, and perhaps, taking us away from a defensive priority.

[thispego]

I say its bc of all the new faces, but even more its with the constant changing lineups. Never in the tim, tony, manu era have there been so many different line ups game to game

:lmao are you kidding me? i know you've been around but you must not have been paying attention the last several years

[Spursfan092120]

Turnovers? No way...not buying it.

[Xevious]

There's plenty of blame to go around, but it has to start with Tony. The double-dribbling, traveling, and sloppy passing has got to stop. He can't be firing passes ten feet above people's heads, there's no excuse.

[pjjrfan]

If it's not Tony, It's Timmy, or it's Manu. Our big three are the guys who set the tone, and they usually take turns leading the team in turnovers. And it's always the same kind, Tim throwing it to no one in particular, or turning into a pack of defenders and flailing his arms without the ball. With Tony he drives it in and comes up flailing without the ball, or he dribbles into the paint gets stuck and travels. And with Manu it's the lean back almost falling bounce pass to the other team or his trying to break through a double team without the ball which is usually going the other way. It's like deja vu, or the matrix going haywire.

[Xevious]

If it's not Tony, It's Timmy, or it's Manu. Our big three are the guys who set the tone, and they usually take turns leading the team in turnovers. And it's always the same kind, Tim throwing it to no one in particular, or turning into a pack of defenders and flailing his arms without the ball. With Tony he drives it in and comes up flailing without the ball, or he dribbles into the paint gets stuck and travels. And with Manu it's the lean back almost falling bounce pass to the other team or his trying to break through a double team without the ball which is usually going the other way. It's like deja vu, or the matrix going haywire.

:lol

Those all piss me off, especially since they all lead to a fast break the other way.

[Chomag]

If it's not Tony, It's Timmy, or it's Manu. Our big three are the guys who set the tone, and they usually take turns leading the team in turnovers. And it's always the same kind, Tim throwing it to no one in particular, or turning into a pack of defenders and flailing his arms without the ball. With Tony he drives it in and comes up flailing without the ball, or he dribbles into the paint gets stuck and travels. And with Manu it's the lean back almost falling bounce pass to the other team or his trying to break through a double team without the ball which is usually going the other way. It's like deja vu, or the matrix going haywire.

I have been noticing this alot the past 2 seasons and it seems to be getting worse now. rather then trying to protect the ball when an opponent gets a hand on the ball they just flair their arms strait in the air.

Hopefully they will eventually see this when they watch game footage and try to adjust it.

[exstatic]

If the team practices running the break then hopefully some off these mistakes will come down. Then again, maybe they already are and we just completely suck at fastbreaking.

There were maybe 6-7 blown breaks. That still leaves 20+ turnovers, which is unacceptable. It's much more than just TOs on the break.

[EVAY]

If it's not Tony, It's Timmy, or it's Manu. Our big three are the guys who set the tone, and they usually take turns leading the team in turnovers. And it's always the same kind, Tim throwing it to no one in particular, or turning into a pack of defenders and flailing his arms without the ball. With Tony he drives it in and comes up flailing without the ball, or he dribbles into the paint gets stuck and travels. And with Manu it's the lean back almost falling bounce pass to the other team or his trying to break through a double team without the ball which is usually going the other way. It's like deja vu, or the matrix going haywire.

This.

[ElNono]

If it's not Tony, It's Timmy, or it's Manu. Our big three are the guys who set the tone, and they usually take turns leading the team in turnovers. And it's always the same kind, Tim throwing it to no one in particular, or turning into a pack of defenders and flailing his arms without the ball. With Tony he drives it in and comes up flailing without the ball, or he dribbles into the paint gets stuck and travels. And with Manu it's the lean back almost falling bounce pass to the other team or his trying to break through a double team without the ball which is usually going the other way. It's like deja vu, or the matrix going haywire.

Those turnovers don't really worry me THAT much because you can chalk those up to the other team defense taking a gamble and being succesful. It's part of their defense. Plus in all instances, if it's not a turnover, it most likely ends up in points in the basket due to a big advanatge (For example, Manu splitting the screen).
The actual turnovers that really have no excuse are the traveling on the fast break, or passing the ball too high or low or to some area where we don't even have a player at. I think those are very correctable, and really reflect a lack of focus.

[DPG21920]

This should be a very tough match up for the Spurs. Spurs have to find a way to keep Wallace off of the boards and they have to force this Bobcat team into shooting a lot of jumpers.

Boris Diaw is a guy who always gives the Spurs trouble. It will be very interesting to see who starts out on Jax/Wallace/Boris. That is a difficult match up for the Spurs. Spurs, if they take care of and move the ball, should get good looks inside and out. Spurs will get into to a lot of trouble if the ball sticks and they try and force things on the perimeter. The Cats perimeter defense is pretty solid.

The turnovers are surprising, but not completely unexpected. This is what I said before the game even started. Duncan is correct, the teams they have been playing as of late have hawks on them (Rondo, Ronnie Brewer, Gerald Wallace...).

[Blackjack]

Turnovers are nothing more than Pop's newest way of getting more repetition for his defense; practice makes perfect..

[z0sa]

Parker had 7 TOs last night, but I'm not here to bash him, quite the contrary..

The Frenchman has noticeably changed his attitude essentially overnight, and the last two games come out of the gate with getting others involved his primary concern. He took only 7 shots last night to go with his 10 assists... but we won by double digits and had a strong defensive game, other than the 3rd quarter (where a large portion of our TOs came, IIRC). If Parker plays more of an equal opportunity PG role, as opposed to score first (or even pass first), this team fires on all cylinders.

7 TOs is unacceptable, but I'll take them if Parker can adjust into a role where both 1) he is comfortable and 2) the rest of the team is getting good shots.

[SenorSpur]

Agreed. The 7 TO's is totally unacceptable. Less turnovers means more possessions and an increase in scoring opportunities.

That said, I am happy to see Tony seemingly change his approach toward being a floor leader in that it appears he's now looking to involve others in the offense, besides Tim and Manu.

As someone mentioned in another thread, the more assists he tallies, the less pounding he will have to take. Having players like RJ and Hill next to him, will help alleviate the offensive burden he's been carrying for the past 2 years.

[JustinJDW]

We finally got a good rotation.

We are finally making our shots.

RJ is getting good.

Manu is getting good.

Everybody is getting healthy.

Now that we finally got our shit together, we start turning over the ball like crazy. Imagine how good we could be if we just valued the ball.

Damn.

[DPG21920]

I am concerned short term about the 81's, but not in the long term. This team has been very good at taking care of the ball. I expect that to return.

[z0sa]

As someone mentioned in another thread, the more assists he tallies, the less pounding he will have to take. Having players like RJ and Hill next to him, will help alleviate the offensive burden he's been carrying for the past 2 years.

I think this is an underrated, or possibly even overlooked characteristic of being a predominantly playmaking point guard. While that's not the role I want Parker playing (we need his scoring and that'd be operating outside of Pop's system anyway), it could be a way to get more rest for his body. He shouldn't have that drive drive drive and score mentality anymore, anyway - we have the players now for him to take it easy on nights others are rolling.

[Blackjack]

It's a process for Tony and it's not gonna happen overnight.

I'm just hoping to not see the Kobe-esque inability/stubbornness to find the happy medium of a couple years ago..

[Flux451]

Unacceptable. No more excuses. If Spurs can't fixed this problem then we won't become elite...nor deserve elitism.

[Chieflion]

This was about the worst outing the Spurs can have out of a blowout win. We can't expect to go red hot from the field all season long and turn the ball over.

[The Truth #6]

I was curious why Pop was inciting the team to keep the pace up last night, even when we were obviously out of control. Maybe Pop is experimenting with the fast break and wants the team to get as much experience as they can early in the season, even if the turnovers occur. I'm not saying I believe that, but the situation is curious.

[Solid D]

Prior to the Philadelphia game, through the first 14 games, the Spurs were 8-6 and ranked 1st in the NBA in FEWEST Turnovers (11.7 per game). Since that game the Spurs have committed 17 against Phila., 18 vs. Boston, 19 vs. Denver, 15 vs. Utah, 13 vs. Sac, and 28 vs. Charlotte. That's an avg. of 18.3 per game over the past 6 games.

Although the Spurs are starting to get used to each other, it seems the opposition have picked up on how to bother San Antonio. Get up into them, strip Parker on his drives, poke at the ball when Ginobili crosses over to his right hand, and watch for skip passes to the wing.

[The Truth #6]

The other teams are doing their part but to me it still feels like we're making idiotic mistakes like double dribbling, passing into the third row, passing to the other team.

I hope that this isn't somehow a product of getting RJ involved. Is it really that bad? By trying to play the team game, are we really that thrown out of our rhythm?

The odd thing is, in the past, typically it was Tim who would often give up silly turnovers from double teams in the post but that hasn't been the issue with this latest streak.

This team is not that bad. We've shown streaks of great play. They're mature enough and have a strong enough coach where this shouldn't continue.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'd actually say that the MAJORITY of the turnovers have been the team's own doing and not the opponent's, at least IMO..

A lot of them are just really stupid turnovers..stupid decisions to force it inside, guys trying to make passes that they just can't make(Hill and Bonner in particular IMO), Tony driving into 3 defenders and being unable to make a play time and time again, Duncan occasionally trying to force a pass inside from the top of the key without looking for another option, Manu always has his Manu moments..we've even seen A NUMBER of turnovers with guys throwing it to the corner to another guy that was cutting, resulting in a ball thrown out of bounds..I've seen that turnover at least 5 times in the last 4 games, IIRC 2 times in the 1st quarter vs. Boston alone..

[DPG21920]

Also a lot of the TO's, at least from TP seem to be coming from his mind trying to do what his body cannot. He is not healthy and as a result, he has looked considerably slower. He is trying to make the moves he used to, which were always difficult, but now that he has lost a step early on he is getting ripped more. Should get better as his health improves and his explosiveness is back.