Small ball = LOSS

[poop]

wtf pop has not played ratliff or mahinmi in ages, tim and mcdyess sit the whole second half as the bobcats pound the glass and dominate inside. its like hes trying to lose.

[Mal]

and he did lost

[NZ Spurs]

What player on the bobcats can Ratliff stay with on defense?

Genius.

[poop]

What player on the bobcats can Ratliff stay with on defense?

Genius.

he can do what centers do and defend the paint, challenge their easy penetration and get some rebounds.
much more effectively than a lineup of sub-6-7 guys getting their shots swatted and getting killed on the glass.
genius.

[EricB]

No effort = loss

[HarlemHeat37]

-Horrible effort..
-Shots not going down..
-No energy players to come in when the team was clearly sleepwalking..

I've never even asked for Haislip to play once this year, just before anybody says that..I've been saying he's horrible since preseason..

he clearly should play Ian or Ratliff more though, they're both high-energy guys that spark the team..as for who they were going to guard, did it matter in the end?..Diaw was torching everybody, small and big..

[Thompson]

Pop will conclude that we lost with 4 of our biggest guys on the floor; therefore, we need more small ball. :lol

And please give Ian more time, for the love of Pete. He not only had good stats when he was playing vs. New Jersey, he made good rotations (as far as I could tell). Just try a stretch with Duncan and Ian. I want to see the twin towers 2.0.

[Refocus]

No effort = loss

+1 :ihit

[EricB]

-Horrible effort..
-Shots not going down..
-No energy players to come in when the team was clearly sleepwalking..

I've never even asked for Haislip to play once this year, just before anybody says that..I've been saying he's horrible since preseason..

he clearly should play Ian or Ratliff more though, they're both high-energy guys that spark the team..as for who they were going to guard, did it matter in the end?..Diaw was torching everybody, small and big..


Yeah

5/25 from 3 doesn't help either.

[EricB]

Pop will conclude that we lost with 4 of our biggest guys on the floor; therefore, we need more small ball. :lol

And please give Ian more time, for the love of Pete. He not only had good stats when he was playing vs. New Jersey, he made good rotations (as far as I could tell). Just try a stretch with Duncan and Ian. I want to see the twin towers 2.0.

Good lord....

[TJastal]

You guys wanna judge Haislip when the guy has barely seen but a handful of minutes this year .. of course he's gonna be out of sync.

I agree however Mahinmi has some defenite potential here.. Again he shows his ability to utilize his sizne and length to score around the rim (something Blair is too short to do) and ability to intimidate people on the other end.

[EricB]

You guys wanna judge Haislip when the guy has barely seen but a handful of minutes this year .. of course he's gonna be out of sync.

I agree however Mahinmi has some defenite potential here.. Again he shows his ability to utilize his sizne and length to score around the rim (something Blair is too short to do) and ability to intimidate people on the other end.


Oh please, Haislip stinks.

He looked the same now as he did in the preseason.


The only times he looks good are in garbage time against bad teams.

That means BAD PLAYER.


Good grief.

[alchemist]

tall ball = wide open 3's (blow out)

:lol

a mix of both probably wouldn't hurt :toast

[TJastal]

We're getting killed in the paint, this team needs more Ratliff & Mahinmi. At who's expense I'm not sure but something has to give.

[45 bank shot]

actually i think pop has realized that and started playing big ball towards the end of the game

[TJastal]

Oh please, Haislip stinks.

He looked the same now as he did in the preseason.


The only times he looks good are in garbage time against bad teams.

That means BAD PLAYER.


Good grief.

Bogans couldn't shoot in the preseason and can't shoot now.. shall we conclude the same about him?

[ezau]

Wow, what a way to kill the momentum by beating the Lakers and OKC. These guys need to show up against Memphis though

[EricB]

Bogans couldn't shoot in the preseason and can't shoot now.. shall we conclude the same about him?


He's not a great shooter no.

But he plays good defense rebounds and drives the ball to the basket, rotates well and isn't in the way on offense.

All things Haislip can't due.

Trust me, coming from someone who defended mediocre to bad players for years. Rasho, Elson, Cherokee Parks.

Don't defend Haislip, its a losing cause.

[ulosturedge]

Kind of sux, but yeah no surprise here. Spurs love playing to the level of their opponent. Bad shooting night, lack of interest; they lulled themselves to sleep tonight. Atleast Mahinmi and Haslip got some burn tonight. Mahinmi seems like he still has a chance to stick around in the NBA. Blair must be rubbing off on him. I wonder if we will see Duncan on the court tomorrow or not.

[EricB]

Wow, what a way to kill the momentum by beating the Lakers and OKC. These guys need to show up against Memphis though


I think thats overstating it a bit.

Games like this happen where you just come in with a shit attitude and get outhustled.

[timvp]

The Spurs have been playing a lot of small ball since Bonner's injury.

Fail thread.

[TJastal]

He's not a great shooter no.

But he plays good defense rebounds and drives the ball to the basket, rotates well and isn't in the way on offense.

All things Haislip can't due.

Trust me, coming from someone who defended mediocre to bad players for years. Rasho, Elson, Cherokee Parks.

Don't defend Haislip, its a losing cause.

It's not really defending him, just saying he's hardly seen enough time to make a good judgement.

And in today's NBA game where offense is king, what you described as Bogans' attributes doesn't cut it nowadays. This 1-7 shit is becoming all too common for him.

[ChumpDumper]

Haislip goes in the deep freeze until he's traded or maybe "gets it" next season.

Ian is doing ok, but he's not going to make his teammates hit open shots tonight.

[StoneBuddha]

Oh please, Haislip stinks.

He looked the same now as he did in the preseason.


The only times he looks good are in garbage time against bad teams.

That means BAD PLAYER.


Good grief.

Yeah, even the way Haslip moves on the court-- he doesn't look like a basketball player or even an athlete. The way he moves makes Bonner look like an athlete. Are we sure that guy is athletic?

Scrounge me up some Bonner... Play Ian or Ratliff. Even in the very short minutes, Ian looks a lot better than Haslip.

[HarlemHeat37]

I didn't base my judgment of Haislip on how he looked tonight..I didn't judge him in preseason based on his shooting or how he looked within the team..

I didn't really care that he was missing, that shit happens, guys go through slumps..my problem with him in preseason was that he was physically overmatched by all of the post players that he was guarding, they were pushing him around with ease..when he was guarding on the perimeter he was getting torched as well..he blocks some shots once in a while, I'll give him credit there..

His problem offensively is that he doesn't shoot well enough to make him a legit 3-point shooting big man and he was also having trouble dribbling past his opponent every time and he has no post up game at all..if you have those types of problems, you better be around the mid 40s in 3PT% to have an impact in this league, which is why Bonner gets PT..so his only hope of playing on this team would be to play ahead of Bonner, and he doesn't do anything better than Bonner other than dunk..

[EricB]

I didn't base my judgment of Haislip on how he looked tonight..I didn't judge him in preseason based on his shooting or how he looked within the team..

I didn't really care that he was missing, that shit happens, guys go through slumps..my problem with him in preseason was that he was physically overmatched by all of the post players that he was guarding, they were pushing him around with ease..when he was guarding on the perimeter he was getting torched as well..he blocks some shots once in a while, I'll give him credit there..

His problem offensively is that he doesn't shoot well enough to make him a legit 3-point shooting big man and he was also having trouble dribbling past his opponent every time and he has no post up game at all..if you have those types of problems, you better be around the mid 40s in 3PT% to have an impact in this league, which is why Bonner gets PT..so his only hope of playing on this team would be to play ahead of Bonner, and he doesn't do anything better than Bonner other than dunk..


Anthony Tolliver 2.0

[TJastal]

Haislip goes in the deep freeze until he's traded or maybe "gets it" next season.

Ian is doing ok, but he's not going to make his teammates hit open shots tonight.

But he helps protect the rim and keeps the spurs in the game with his defense.

[pjjrfan]

-Horrible effort..
-Shots not going down..
-No energy players to come in when the team was clearly sleepwalking..

I've never even asked for Haislip to play once this year, just before anybody says that..I've been saying he's horrible since preseason..

he clearly should play Ian or Ratliff more though, they're both high-energy guys that spark the team..as for who they were going to guard, did it matter in the end?..Diaw was torching everybody, small and big..
I agree totally, small ball, big ball, blue ball wouldn't have made any difference. Our main 3 guys couldn't even stay on thier feet they kept falling down and turning over the ball. Every one but Blair followed suit.

[poop]

The Spurs have been playing a lot of small ball since Bonner's injury.

Fail thread.

sometimes it can work for small stretches...but thats it. and there hasnt been as much small ball lately as there was today....during the third quarter(we were in the game up to then), pop went almost the whole quarter with a sub 6-7 lineup and it was exactly during that time than we went from being down 2 to being down 13-15 (game over).

no coincidence, as in that stretch they 'just happened' to dominate us in the paint and on the boards.

pop didnt put in tim or anyone tall until we were in a 15 point hole.

[ChumpDumper]

But he helps protect the rim and keeps the spurs in the game with his defense.I said he's doing fine.

Would you say the Spurs hit more or fewer open shots than usual?

[TJastal]

I didn't base my judgment of Haislip on how he looked tonight..I didn't judge him in preseason based on his shooting or how he looked within the team..

I didn't really care that he was missing, that shit happens, guys go through slumps..my problem with him in preseason was that he was physically overmatched by all of the post players that he was guarding, they were pushing him around with ease..when he was guarding on the perimeter he was getting torched as well..he blocks some shots once in a while, I'll give him credit there..

His problem offensively is that he doesn't shoot well enough to make him a legit 3-point shooting big man and he was also having trouble dribbling past his opponent every time and he has no post up game at all..if you have those types of problems, you better be around the mid 40s in 3PT% to have an impact in this league, which is why Bonner gets PT..so his only hope of playing on this team would be to play ahead of Bonner, and he doesn't do anything better than Bonner other than dunk..

Guy has played a total of 30 minutes so far this year. He was 3-3 from the arc coming into this game. Too small of a sample size to make a judgement.

[EricB]

sometimes it can work for small stretches...but thats it. and there hasnt been as much small ball lately as there was today....during the third quarter(we were in the game up to then), pop went almost the whole quarter with a sub 6-7 lineup and it was exactly during that time than we went from being down 2 to being down 13-15 (game over).

no coincidence, as in that stretch they 'just happened' to dominate us in the paint and on the boards.

pop didnt put in tim or anyone tall until we were in a 15 point hole.

Its been played for long stretches.

Miss the Thunder and Laker games?

[EricB]

Guy has played a total of 30 minutes so far this year. He was 3-3 from the arc coming into this game. Too small of a sample size to make a judgement.


General Custard

Stop.

[ChumpDumper]

Anthony Tolliver 2.0I think I'd like him better than Haislip at this point. He's been working on other parts of his game.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Spurs would have lost either way based on how the big3+1 played, but Pop SHOULD have brought in Ian or Ratliff when it was clear that the team was sleepwalking..it doesn't even have to be for their skills, at least just to provide energy, which helps teams all the time..

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs would have lost either way based on how the big3+1 played, but Pop SHOULD have brought in Ian or Ratliff when it was clear that the team was sleepwalking..it doesn't even have to be for their skills, at least just to provide energy, which helps teams all the time..That's what Haislip was supposed to do tonight.

[TJastal]

General Custard

Stop.

eh? Can't handle logic huh

[objective]

Tolliver was a nice passer

[HarlemHeat37]

That's what Haislip was supposed to do tonight.

When the lead was double-digits with 8 minutes left in the 4th?..

They were sleepwalking waaay before that..

[objective]

That's what Haislip was supposed to do tonight.

I don't think that's a good situation for him, ice cold until a few minutes gone by in the 4th, down double digits. What were they, down 13, 15?

No matter who, be it Ratliff, Ian, or MH, they could have been used for energy in the change-up in the first half, when the Spurs were just as sloppy and listless but were just hitting jumpers they'd later miss.

[EricB]

eh? Can't handle logic huh


No, look in the mirror when you say that.

Haislip. Stinks. accept it, move on.

[ChumpDumper]

When the lead was double-digits with 8 minutes left in the 4th?..

They were sleepwalking waaay before that..13 point lead at 9:16 that Haislip brought down to 11 eight seconds later.

Too bad he sucked horribly after that.

[TD 21]

Pop hasn't figured this out yet. It's like he's trying to dispel everything people have thought of the Spurs to be and show that he's a versatile coach or something. Either that, or he thinks he's coaching the re-incarnation of the mid-decade Suns. Someone needs to enlighten him so that he realizes that (athletically) Duncan isn't Stoudemire, (style-wise) Jefferson isn't Marion and (style-wise) Parker isn't Nash. The Spurs are built differently (thankfully) and as such should be playing to their strengths. What's most baffling about this is Pop coached the very team that repeatedly snuffed out the Suns attempts to win a championship playing that way. Yet, despite all this evidence that suggests that the Spurs should not be playing small, Pop inexplicably is.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't think that's a good situation for him, ice cold until a few minutes gone by in the 4th, down double digits. What were they, down 13, 15?Then waive him. He won't be of any use if he isn't ready to play.

[poop]

Its been played for long stretches.

Miss the Thunder and Laker games?

the lakers game there was ALWAYS a true big or two in the game...in fact pop pulled blair early on because the lakers have too much size and length. if not tim we had mcdyess and raliff in there at least. and for OKC, their interior is very weak so Blair sufficed. in tonights game they have big strong guys down lowand all-round more athletic players and pop played two 6-7 guys inside the entire 3rd hence them getting rebounds and getting to the line by simply pushing it inside where there was no one to contest .

[Thompson]

General Custard


Custer.

[poop]

also ...Haislip should be the LAST guy off the bench..hes clearly the most raw guy on the team. Ratliff and mahinmi should have been in there much earlier.

[TJastal]

No, look in the mirror when you say that.

Haislip. Stinks. accept it, move on.

Bogans. Stinks. accept it, move on.

[objective]

Then waive him. He won't be of any use if he isn't ready to play.

waiving him is fine by me.

But having a team play sloppy and listless the entire game and wait until 9 minutes left down double digits to go to an out-of-rotation player for a game winning spark is a questionable coaching decision.

[ChumpDumper]

waiving him is fine by me.

But having a team play sloppy and listless the entire game and wait until 9 minutes left down double digits to go to an out-of-rotation player for a game changing spark is a questionable coaching decision.Yes, you're better than Pop.

You're all better.

Send in your resumes.

I just think the players should play better. I certainly can't play better than they can.

[TD 21]

I've dredged up another theory and at first blush, it'll likely sound half-insane, but bear with me...maybe Pop doesn't like having all of these half-enticing options at his disposal; maybe he likes being the little team that could, both figuratively and literally. From the playing small, to the blatant underutilization (close enough to a word) of the majority of the new guys, to the not playing either of the two lengthy, athletic, rim protectors. Maybe he's so caught up with having won with limited talent, limited athleticism ( not to mention doing so in a small-market), it's like he doesn't want to break out of that mold.

[objective]

Yes, you're better than Pop.

You're all better.

Send in your resumes.

I just think the players should play better. I certainly can't play better than they can.

lol @ your crap

So now Pop is a perfect human? Is he Jesus reborn?

Or is it possible that Pop can have a decision that's questionable?

IS THAT POSSIBLE ?

And re: players should play better.

Yes they should. Some nights the rotation guys don't have it. That's the way it is. Nothing wrong with inserting a possible spark in the first half when it's clear in the first 5 minutes how off those rotation guys are.

[ChumpDumper]

lol @ your crap

So now Pop is a perfect human? Is he Jesus reborn?

Or is it possible that Pop can have a decision that's questionable?

IS THAT POSSIBLE ?He's the worst coach ever.


He's never done one thing right.

I agree with you.


And re: players should play better.

Yes they should. Some nights the rotation guys don't have it. That's the way it is. Nothing wrong with inserting a possible spark in the first half when it's clear in the first 5 minutes how off those rotation guys are.They were off because the Bobcats were much better.

And the Spurs shot 5-25 from the arc.

Haislip and Ian were not going to help that.

[poop]

lol @ your crap

So now Pop is a perfect human? Is he Jesus reborn?

Or is it possible that Pop can have a decision that's questionable?

IS THAT POSSIBLE ?

And re: players should play better.

Yes they should. Some nights the rotation guys don't have it. That's the way it is. Nothing wrong with inserting a possible spark in the first half when it's clear in the first 5 minutes how off those rotation guys are.

this

[ChumpDumper]

thisPop should have made all those threes.

I question his three-making ability.

[thOOdee]

bonner < small ball = no championship

[objective]

He's the worst coach ever.


He's never done one thing right.

I agree with you.



what a clown :lol

[ChumpDumper]

what a clown :lolNo, I agreed with you.

When the Spurs lose, it's is and always will be Pop's fault.

When they win, it is and always will be in spite of Pop.

Good talk.

[objective]

No, I agreed with you.

When the Spurs lose, it's is and always will be Pop's fault.

When they win, it is and always will be in spite of Pop.

Good talk.

you're confusing me with other posters, save your smug sarcasm for the guys who post about Pop needing to be fired, Tony being traded, etc

but to act like you are when there's reasoned discussion over whether a move was 'questionable' . . . is lame.

I didn't write it as a 'dumb' move, or an 'insane' move, or a 'deserves to be fired' move.

Save it for the over-the-line or unreasonably kneejerk posters.

[TJastal]

Chump

Pop's ultimately responsible when the team is playing out of sync & missing shots. That's the bottom line.

[spursbird]

Bogans sucks ass. Bench him.

[ChumpDumper]

Chump

Pop's ultimately responsible when the team is playing out of sync & missing shots. That's the bottom line.Is a player ever responsible for missing a shot?

Yes or no.

[ChumpDumper]

you're confusing me with other posters, save your smug sarcasm for the guys who post about Pop needing to be fired, Tony being traded, etc

but to act like you are when there's reasoned discussion over whether a move was 'questionable' . . . is lame.

I didn't write it as a 'dumb' move, or an 'insane' move, or a 'deserves to be fired' move.

Save it for the over-the-line or unreasonably kneejerk posters.There is plenty of my smug sarcasm to go around.

That's also Pop's fault.

[TJastal]

Is a player ever responsible for missing a shot?

Yes or no.

Yes, but Pop is the one ultimately responsible when the whole team can't make shots.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, but Pop is the one ultimately responsible when the whole team can't make shots.Why?

They were open shots and all the three point shooters took them.

Why is their missing open shots Pop's responsibility?

[TJastal]

Why?

They were open shots and all the three point shooters took them.

Why is their missing open shots Pop's responsibility?

He is the coach. Are you really that stupid?

[objective]

Chump

Pop's ultimately responsible when the team is playing out of sync & missing shots. That's the bottom line.

I'm not even particularly bothered by the loss. The stars didn't have it tonight, nor the roleplayers. They were sloppy and disjointed from start to finish. The heavy minutes last game combined with it being from a back-to-back plus travel . . . hey, that happens.

Guys being sluggish, not much Pop can do except chew them out or take them out.

Even with MH or Ian or Ratliff playing earlier it might not have made a difference in this game. But if the rotation guys don't have it early, maybe don't wait until the 9 minutes left down 13 to get a spark.

[ChumpDumper]

He is the coach. Are you really that stupid?A coach are responsible for his players' not making open shots they normally make.

Not the players.

Yes, I see your logic now.

You explained it so well.

[TJastal]

A coach are responsible for his players' not making open shots they normally make.

Not the players.

Yes, I see your logic now.

You explained it so well.

thank you

[ChumpDumper]

thank youYou need to read the sarcasm FAQ.

You didn't explain anything.

There is no logic in your argument.

I don't agree with you.

Yours is a fantastically stupid argument.

[TJastal]

You need to read the sarcasm FAQ.

You didn't explain anything.

There is no logic in your argument.

I don't agree with you.

Yours is a fantastically stupid argument.

:lol

So you don't agree the coach is ultimately responsible when the players don't perform up to expectations?

[ChumpDumper]

:lol

So you don't agree the coach is ultimately responsible when the players don't perform up to expectations?No.

[TJastal]

No.

:lol

[ChumpDumper]

:lolOr rather, yes -- I don't agree.

[Boss]

I bet Pop is really regretting all those seasons he could of played:
C-Malik Rose
PF-Steve Smith
SF-Antonio Daniels
SG-Steve Kerr
PG-Avery Johnson

[Obstructed_View]

Haislip goes in the deep freeze until he's traded or maybe "gets it" next season.

Ian is doing ok, but he's not going to make his teammates hit open shots tonight.

Having him in the game could possibly help the Spurs not to settle for a thousand outside jump shots, though. Missing jumpers is a sign of tired legs, so maybe shortening up the rotation the other night while Duncan rested instead of playing Ian caught up on them. In short, there's no sound logic behind his not getting minutes at this point.

[Obstructed_View]

A coach are responsible for his players' not making open shots they normally make.

Not the players.

Yes, I see your logic now.

You explained it so well.

See "tired legs".

[ChumpDumper]

Having him in the game could possibly help the Spurs not to settle for a thousand outside jump shots, though. Missing jumpers is a sign of tired legs, so maybe shortening up the rotation the other night while Duncan rested instead of playing Ian caught up on them. In short, there's no sound logic behind his not getting minutes at this point.If they can't recover with a day's rest, they should all be waived.

[ChumpDumper]

See "tired legs".See "waive them all."

[Obstructed_View]

If they can't recover with a day's rest, they should all be waived.

Timmy didn't seem to recover despite the extra rest everyone else didn't get, so Pop's plan seems to have extra helpings of fail, much like most of your posts.

[murpjf88]

Some people are taking this criticism for pop too far. Some of you act like the players are 24-0 while Pop is 0-14. Pop never gets credit for the win, but he's always the first one being blamed for the loss. Is it Pops fault the spurs can't sink open shots? NO! Is it Pops fault the Spurs are throwing the ball all over the court? NO! Is it Pops fault bogans is on the damn court? YES! In other words, the player should be held accountable for their own actions. This was an ugly, UGLY basketball game.

[ChumpDumper]

Timmy didn't seem to recover despite the extra day over everyone else, so Pop's plan seems to have extra helpings of fail, much like most of your posts.So playing anyone who didn't play wouldn't have made any difference since every player who did or didn't play was tired.

More great logic from you. :tu

Ian could have hit those 20 missed threes tonight! He had fresh legs! But he was still tired because he didn't play!

[Obstructed_View]

So playing anyone who didn't play wouldn't have made any difference since every player who did or didn't play was tired.

More great logic from you. :tu

I know a strawman is the only one you have a shot against, but he's kickin' your ass again. You've suggested over the last few posts that everyone on the team should be released, including Tim Duncan. Not really the best time to be calling someone out on their logic.

Teams that are tired settle for jumpers rather than going inside.

Teams with tired legs miss jumpers.

Teams that have to play overtime games without a superstar on a shortened rotation get tired.

Ian's not only not tired, he can score inside, limiting the number of jumpers the team takes.

Any of this starting to get through?

[ChumpDumper]

I know a strawman is the only one you have a shot against, but he's kickin' your ass again. You've suggested over the last few posts that everyone on the team should be released, including Tim Duncan. Not really the best time to be calling someone out on their logic.Sarcasm FAQ.


Teams that are tired settle for jumpers rather than going inside.

Teams with tired legs miss jumpers.

Teams that have to play overtime games without a superstar on a shortened rotation get tired.

Ian's not only not tired, he can score inside, limiting the number of jumpers the team takes.

Any of this starting to get through?:lmao

The Bobcats were much better than the rested Spurs tonight.

Ian would not have saved them.

[TJastal]

I tend to agree with Obstructed_View on this.

Pop's decision to hold Duncan out of the thunder game seems to have had the opposite effect intended for Tim Duncan. He seemed slow and lethargic.. he had too much rest IMO.

And it was plainly obvious the rest of the team was mentally and physically exhausted by that game they would most likely have coasted to victory if Duncan plays his usual 20-25 minutes.

[SpurNation]

Sounds like the whole team sucked tonight. I can understand a couple of players having a bad game...but the whole team?

Sometimes there are games like this during the season. What I can't understand is how?

IMO...in situations like this...it's everyone's fault on the team...players and coaches.

Meh...it's done...time to move on.

[lennyalderette]

look just cause pops a stubborn old fart doesnt mean he all of a sudden sucks at what hes doing!! believe me i get super furious when he insists on playing our worst defenders on the leagues best scorers, esp during critical game time. but he does something we dont do here at spurs talk, he has an over all goal already, whatever the hell that is im sure he has a good reason for it so you gotta have some faith, i think hes got so much pressure to make it work he isnt going to make a stupid move purposely!!! theres too much money riding on this team, and you know pop once he lets go of a player they no longer exist so he is prob making sure he know what everyone is capable of.and by the way i think he should play haislip and mahinmi a shit load more!!!! they would have helped out if they had some nba exp. by now, i mean i dont understand that

[Bruno]

An interesting stat is the evolution of the minutes percentage played by Spurs with a small ball lineup (1 big and 4 small) during the past few years:

04-05: 8.1%
05-06: 9.6%
06-07: 13.7%
07-08: 27.4%
08-09: 21.7%
09-10: 24.6%

That's a quite significant raise. Spurs are now a team that plays about a quarter per game with a small ball lineup.

Pop has simply changed his philosophy regarding playing small.
In the past, it was a last resort option. A player was destroying our bigmen and Spurs had to go small.
Now, It's a common solution. As soon as Pop saw a bigman with some mobility (like a fat Diaw), he goes small. Pop seems fine with playing small.

I'm not against Spurs playing small in some specific cases but a quarter per game is way too much. To me, it's a sign of a ill Spurs' team.

[TJastal]

An interesting stat is the evolution of the minutes percentage played by Spurs with a small ball lineup (1 big and 4 small) during the past few years:

04-05: 8.1%
05-06: 9.6%
06-07: 13.7%
07-08: 27.4%
08-09: 21.7%
09-10: 24.6%

That's a quite significant raise. Spurs are now a team that plays about a quarter per game with a small ball lineup.

Pop has simply changed his philosophy regarding playing small.
In the past, it was a last resort option. A player was destroying our bigmen and Spurs had to go small.
Now, It's a common solution. As soon as Pop saw a bigman with some mobility (like a fat Diaw), he goes small. Pop seems fine with playing small.

I'm not against Spurs playing small in some specific cases but a quarter per game is way too much. To me, it's a sign of a ill Spurs' team.

Yes, I love the stat work too, Bruno. :)

It's a good bet the # of points in the paint the team is giving up is increasing in similar fashion.

[Bruno]

It's a good bet the # of points in the paint the team is giving up is increasing in similar fashion.

No, it isn't.

[TJastal]

No, it isn't.

Uh, okay. My eyes tell me differently, but if you say so, your the stat guy. If the spurs aren't giving up easy points in the paint with small-ball then how is it a sign of an ill spurs team?

[Johnny RIngo]

An interesting stat is the evolution of the minutes percentage played by Spurs with a small ball lineup (1 big and 4 small) during the past few years:

04-05: 8.1%
05-06: 9.6%
06-07: 13.7%
07-08: 27.4%
08-09: 21.7%
09-10: 24.6%

That's a quite significant raise. Spurs are now a team that plays about a quarter per game with a small ball lineup.

Pop has simply changed his philosophy regarding playing small.
In the past, it was a last resort option. A player was destroying our bigmen and Spurs had to go small.
Now, It's a common solution. As soon as Pop saw a bigman with some mobility (like a fat Diaw), he goes small. Pop seems fine with playing small.

I'm not against Spurs playing small in some specific cases but a quarter per game is way too much. To me, it's a sign of a ill Spurs' team.

Those numbers are very telling. It's probably safe to assume that a championship is out of the question this year if Pop is going to continue going to small ball as much as your statistics indicate.

[Bruno]

Uh, okay. My eyes tell me differently, but if you say so, your the stat guy. If the spurs aren't giving up easy points in the paint with small-ball then how is it a sign of an ill spurs team?

I haven't full stats of points in the paint but the few I get didn't show it.

It could be explained by the sample size. When Spurs goes from playing 10% to 25% of small ball, it means that they still play 85% of their minutes whit the same lineup than before and goes 15% of their minutes from big to small ball lineup. Even if they are doing significantly worse at defending the paint during these 15%, it's hidden with a small change during the other 85% of the minutes.

[pjjrfan]

Well this year the team hasn't been lay-up city like the last 2 or 3 seasons. I don't know if it's Tim with Blair or what. But last year there were so many games where people just kept getting to the rim effortlessly this year it is different.

[poop]

i gotta say, Chumper Dump is maybe the most smug ass douchebag on this site, and is a complete moron as well.

[EmptyMan]

This was just one of those black hole games.

Spurs took 10 steps forward and one back. It's not a big deal. You could tell from the start no one was playing normally.

[ChumpDumper]

i gotta say, Chumper Dump is maybe the most smug ass douchebag on this site, and is a complete moron as well.Coming from you that means -- well, pretty much nothing.

:toast

[elbamba]

No effort = loss

I pin it on the coach if there is no effort. Put in players that want to play. I can assure you, the Spurs have plenty that would love a shot.

[ChumpDumper]

I pin it on the coach if there is no effort. Put in players that want to play. I can assure you, the Spurs have plenty that would love a shot.Every available player played, didn't they?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

i gotta say, Chumper Dump is maybe the most smug ass douchebag on this site, and is a complete moron as well.

I dunno, I like the guy

[Yogurt210]

Chalk it down with another loss, with SMALL ball play. Pop is fucking stupid, I swear

[L.I.T]

Chalk it down with another loss, with SMALL ball play. Pop is fucking stupid, I swear

Blair 5 fouls.
Ian 4 fouls.

Haislip was crap. May more Theo, but...meh. Dice, injured.

Who pray tell were they going to run out for big ball when the bigs can't stay out of foul trouble? The only player you could argue was Theo.

[exstatic]

They're not losing because of small ball. They're losing because Parker was a dumb fuck and played NT ball this summer and is now broken. They miss those easy points he used to get in the paint, in addition to drawing the defense for easy 3 point shots.

2-8 shooting, 4 pts, 3 assts, 30 minutes.

Congratulations, Tony. You're now about the 5th best guard on the team. Viva le France.

[L.I.T]

An interesting stat is the evolution of the minutes percentage played by Spurs with a small ball lineup (1 big and 4 small) during the past few years:

04-05: 8.1%
05-06: 9.6%
06-07: 13.7%
07-08: 27.4%
08-09: 21.7%
09-10: 24.6%

That's a quite significant raise. Spurs are now a team that plays about a quarter per game with a small ball lineup.

Pop has simply changed his philosophy regarding playing small.
In the past, it was a last resort option. A player was destroying our bigmen and Spurs had to go small.
Now, It's a common solution. As soon as Pop saw a bigman with some mobility (like a fat Diaw), he goes small. Pop seems fine with playing small.

I'm not against Spurs playing small in some specific cases but a quarter per game is way too much. To me, it's a sign of a ill Spurs' team.

That's a depressing and telling stat.

Aside from what most people would say (Pop's an idiot! Boo!) I wonder what the philosophy behind the move could be?

1. The Spurs believe that modern defensive rules lend to having a small ball lineup
2. Market costs and availability. There just aren't that many bigs out there to have.

Or

3. They have tried to find bigs, but keep striking out (overall). Drafted: Ian Mahinmi, Tiago Splitter, Dejuan Blair (lucky pick yes...but they did) Signed/Traded: Kurt Thomas, Theo Ratliff, Jacky Butler, Dice.

[hitmanyr2k]

It's a shame that after a back to back game and then another they are mentally exhausted. I'd hate to see this team in a 7 game playoff series or any real type of obstacle in their way.

I've always wondered if Popovich's inconsistent rotation pattern and the limited minutes he gives to players is actually a detriment to their conditioning. It seems instead of being refreshed from limited minutes the players have just gotten lazier. How are they supposed to be prepared for a hard playoff push when they can't even sustain energy from one game to the next?

[Johnny RIngo]

3. They have tried to find bigs, but keep striking out (overall). Drafted: Ian Mahinmi, Tiago Splitter, Dejuan Blair (lucky pick yes...but they did) Signed/Traded: Kurt Thomas, Theo Ratliff, Jacky Butler, Dice.

I remember more than few posters on spurstalk dismissing Marc Gasol when someone suggested drafting him. I think one poster described him as lazy and too slow for the NBA. Seeing how Splitter fucked us over by passing on the NBA it probably would have been a good idea to take a chance on Gasol(it's not like Marcus Williams panned out anyway).

[Johnny RIngo]

I've always wondered if Popovich's inconsistent rotation pattern and the limited minutes he gives to players is actually a detriment to their conditioning. It seems instead of being refreshed from limited minutes the players have just gotten lazier. How are they supposed to be prepared for a hard playoff push when they can't even sustain energy from one game to the next?

I know it's probably a longshot but maybe the afternoon practices are having an effect?

[Obstructed_View]

If the Spurs had drafted Marc Gasol he'd be sitting on the bench while a lineup of four guards and Timmy put up 30 three pointers a game.

[L.I.T]

I remember more than few posters on spurstalk dismissing Marc Gasol when someone suggested drafting him. I think one poster described him as lazy and too slow for the NBA. Seeing how Splitter fucked us over by passing on the NBA it probably would have been a good idea to take a chance on Gasol(it's not like Marcus Williams panned out anyway).

I agree.

Back then I was actually thought he would have been a decent draftee; if only on the basis of his genes. But, I do remember that the consensus (even among other scouts) was he was never going to be a strong rotational play and that there were serious doubts about if he had NBA-level athleticism. Part of the outcry over the Gasol for Gasol trade was that, at that time, everyone thought Marc was never going to be even a mid-tier center.

Hindsight is, as always, 20/20. But, on this count, I can't really fault the Spurs FO...other than drafting Marcus Williams.

[Obstructed_View]

If the Spurs had drafted Marc Gasol he'd be sitting on the bench while a lineup of four guards and Timmy put up 30 three pointers a game.

Actually, he'd be assigned to Austin about now or tearing up the Italian league.

[objective]

I remember more than few posters on spurstalk dismissing Marc Gasol when someone suggested drafting him. I think one poster described him as lazy and too slow for the NBA. Seeing how Splitter fucked us over by passing on the NBA it probably would have been a good idea to take a chance on Gasol(it's not like Marcus Williams panned out anyway).

No, it wouldn't have been a good idea, at least not a better idea without knowing how Splitter plays in the NBA.

Because Marc Gasol is on a 3-year, $10 million dollar deal.

Just like Splitter, Gasol would have been limited to a rookie deal worth about what, $1 million a year?

He would have sat out 3 years just like Splitter.

I'm surprised he's turned out this way, yes, but the salary restrictions for a late first rounder would still have ruined things.

[L.I.T]

No, it wouldn't have been a good idea, at least not a better idea without knowing how Splitter plays in the NBA.

Because Marc Gasol is on a 3-year, $10 million dollar deal.

Just like Splitter, Gasol would have been limited to a rookie deal worth about what, $1 million a year?

He would have sat out 3 years just like Splitter.

I'm surprised he's turned out this way, yes, but the salary restrictions for a late first rounder would still have ruined things.

Marc Gasol was drafted in the second round (48th overall), which I think means he wouldn't have been limited to the late 1st round scale, since the second round doesn't have a salary scale.

[objective]

Marc Gasol was drafted in the second round (48th overall), which I think means he wouldn't have been limited to the late 1st round scale, since the second round doesn't have a salary scale.

My bad.

I missed the part about Marcus Williams, I thought he meant in lieu of Splitter.

Still, Spurs wouldn't give Scola 3 years/10 million. Hard to believe them giving it to Gasol.

[Bruno]

That's a depressing and telling stat.

Aside from what most people would say (Pop's an idiot! Boo!) I wonder what the philosophy behind the move could be?


IMO, one of the reason why Spurs are now more going smaller is that they have less worst small ball PF with Udoka in 2008-2009 and Jefferson in 2010. The small ball option looks less worst than in the past.

Spurs also often face players that are quickers than their bigmen because they have really struggle to find players who have both size and mobility. When everybody is healthy, the quickest PF/C on the active roster is Matt Bonner. I'm not sure if I should be :lol or :cry to put Bonner and quick in the same sentence.

[exstatic]

Actually, the quickest PF/C is Haislip. There was a missed shot of his from the corner last night, and MEM got the rebound. I was watching the flow of transition, and he basically outran EVERYONE, guards included, to get to the other end for a contest. He's got that easy speed in transition like DRob or Rodman, where they don't look like they're going all out, but they just go past people with ease. F Mahinmi. Haislip is the one that needs the burn.

[Bruno]

Actually, the quickest PF/C is Haislip. There was a missed shot of his from the corner last night, and MEM got the rebound. I was watching the flow of transition, and he basically outran EVERYONE, guards included, to get to the other end for a contest. He's got that easy speed in transition like DRob or Rodman, where they don't look like they're going all out, but they just go past people with ease. F Mahinmi. Haislip is the one that needs the burn.

That's what I've said "quickest on the active roster".
Both Haislip and Mahinmi are quick great athletes.

[spurtech09]

no more small ball pop....plzzzzzzzzzzzz

[L.I.T]

IMO, one of the reason why Spurs are now more going smaller is that they have less worst small ball PF with Udoka in 2008-2009 and Jefferson in 2010. The small ball option looks less worst than in the past.

Spurs also often face players that are quickers than their bigmen because they have really struggle to find players who have both size and mobility. When everybody is healthy, the quickest PF/C on the active roster is Matt Bonner. I'm not sure if I should be :lol or :cry to put Bonner and quick in the same sentence.

Sad face. Definitely sad face. And that's probably the first and last time Bonner and quick will ever be that close together...unless there's a "not" between them.

What's strange is that it seemed early in Pop's career he was channeling Larry Brown with the tough nosed defensive teams...as he's gotten older it seems he's started to channel Don Nelson. Scary.


That's what I've said "quickest on the active roster".
Both Haislip and Mahinmi are quick great athletes.

Going back to the point of quicker bigger players, aside from Elson, I really can't remember a 'quick' "big" the Spurs have targeted in free agency or via trade since Robinson retired. Rasho/Kurt Thomas/Dice at the various points in their careers when they came to the Spurs were not.

I'm actually starting to come around to exstatic's idea of giving Haislip some more small ball minutes at PF. Start him out on 5 minutes and increase if he shows anything approximating a team game. He's supposed to have range, hops and athleticism...why not see if he can perform outside of garbage time?

[Agloco]

One thought on small ball:

http://i.imgur.com/Uyy8C.jpg