<Insert Big Trade Proposal Here>

[Srupsog]

I got 2 trades that would put us on top, first we trade Jefferson, Malik Hairston, and 1st round pick to the bobcats for Stephen Jackson and Gerald Wallace. The bobcats were shopping wallace around earlier in the season and I don't think Jackson is in their long term plans, so this is scenario isn't totally impossibly. If I were the spurs would even throw in splitters rights to make this deal happen, also the trade saves the bobcats money after next season.

Then after that I would trade Bonner, Finley, Mason, Mahinmi, and 2nd round pick to Philedelphia for Samuel Dalembert. I know everyone in Philedelphia thinks this guy is an underachiever, but he might just be in the wrong system. Philedelphia is an offensive minded team, while Dalembert's talent and skills are on the defensive side. Put him in San Antonio and he will flourish because the spurs will get the most out of his skills and he will be appreciated here for what he does best Block shots, rebound, and finish around the rim, thus making him a more motivated player. This trade is very possible, because Philedelphia has been looking all year for anyone to take him. But I wouldn't do this trade unless we did the trade above first. Both trades work salary wise and would give the spurs what they need defense, versatility, length, offensive creativity and athletism.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Bobcats are going to trade their 2 best players on a Larry Brown-coached team for Richard Jefferson and a project player in his 2nd season?..

[dbestpro]

I would like to trade small ball for conventional ball and keep all the same players.

[TJastal]

Jefferson, Hairston, and a crummy 1st round pick for the Bobcats 2 best players?? Larry Brown would break his hand slamming the phone after hearing that proposal. Not gonna happen.

Bon, Fin, Mason, Ian for Dalambert is more reasonable but that would leave the bench paper thin.

[dbestpro]

Would you send Mason and Ian for JR Smith?

[macdude06]

What about Kevin Martin? there was rumor Dallas was trying to trade howard for him? Spencer Hawes isnt a bad Center just kinda slumping and Sacramento really likes brockman. Jason Thompson has been struggling too..but im sure he would be hard to get.

[ffadicted]

Parker and Dice for:
- Wade and Beasley of MIA.

dude, my man, thanks for providing some great laughs before I head to bed

[HarlemHeat37]

it's funny that he wrote Wade AND Beasley, as if Wade wasn't enough LOL..

[TD 21]

Spurs pull off a 12 team blockbuster giving up 2 players in return for 12 putting their pay roll at 175 million dollars.

Sadly the most likely option is Gay-Randolph. Still Zach Randolph has been the surprise of the season. after talking with some Memphis people it turns out that Z-Bo has really matured and has the right leadership mindset.

Any Spurs or trade rumors of any team you heard about recently?

The Iguodala-Dalembert trade, while it's my preference, I don't expect that one will even be discussed, much less consummated, but Camby, Haywood, etc. I fully expect the Spurs to, if not put on a full court press for, at least ask about.

Ultimately, this is what it comes down to and this is the question the front office has to ask themselves: even if we improve immensely, are we good enough, barring something unforeseen, to beat the Lakers in a playoff series? Duncan is obviously more than fine as the first big, McDyess is fine as the third big, but they still don't have that second big. The only other Spurs big who matches up with the Lakers front line is Ratliff, but I can't see him being a twenty minute plus player against them and being part of a three man big rotation. He should be the fourth guy, used for spot minutes.

[Chieflion]

Any Spurs or trade rumors of any team you heard about recently?

The Iguodala-Dalembert trade, while it's my preference, I don't expect that one will even be discussed, much less consummated, but Camby, Haywood, etc. I fully expect the Spurs to, if not put on a full court press for, at least ask about.

Ultimately, this is what it comes down to and this is the question the front office has to ask themselves: even if we improve immensely, are we good enough, barring something unforeseen, to beat the Lakers in a playoff series? Duncan is obviously more than fine as the first big, McDyess is fine as the third big, but they still don't have that second big. The only other Spurs big who matches up with the Lakers front line is Ratliff, but I can't see him being a twenty minute plus player against them and being part of a three man big rotation. He should be the fourth guy, used for spot minutes.
I think I heard something about Haywood and the Nuggets. I got some information from RealGM but I need confirmation.


Honestly, you shouldn't take that "Haywood won't be dealt" headline very seriously. It came from a reporter in Denver's twitter feed, and he probably just got word that the low ball Nuggets offer's were rejected. What he should have written would be "Denver package for bigmen hopelessly inadequate; laughed off the phone".

[TD 21]

I think I heard something about Haywood and the Nuggets. I got some information from RealGM but I need confirmation.

Splitter is probably the deal breaker for Haywood (or Camby, for that matter). Yeah, the Spurs can offer expiring contracts, but so can other teams and those guys are already on expiring contracts to begin with, so forget that, that's not going to be considered value in either of these deals.

Here's what is value...

1st round pick: True, it likely won't be a high (or low, depending on how you look at it) pick, but it has value nonetheless, even if it ultimately probably falls somewhere in the low-mid twenties.

Mahinmi: Minimal, I know and he does fall into the expiring contract category as well, but because he has intriguing physical tools, is cheap and has no guaranteed money coming to him next year, he's a worthwhile project to take on.

Splitter: He, when paired with the 1st, has to intrigue teams. A young, big, skilled, relatively athletic player who should be an instant contributor next season and will likely play on a reasonable contract.

Maybe some other contender overpays, but think about it, which one of them is desperate A) for a starting quality big man and B) for the type the Spurs need? The Nuggets will probably end up getting a backup big, such as Foster or someone of that ilk. The others? The Mavs could use one, but I've yet to hear of them being interested in one. The Cavs are in the market for a stretch four, such as Jamison, Murphy, etc. Basically, I don't see an overwhelming amount of competition.

If you're the Spurs, the 1st isn't that big a deal, but Splitter, do you sacrifice him for an in his 30s upcoming free agent (one with durability issues)? I think it depends on if they believe he's coming over this summer, how much he contributes immediately and if he takes them up a notch as a team. Personally, I don't care if two-three years from now he's producing 12/8. Within' reason, the sole goal should be to get Duncan one for the thumb. If the Spurs can get Camby/Haywood to help them (theoretically) revert to being a contender for this year and next, then I'd probably do it. Having a young big like Blair should make Splitter somewhat more expendable.

[Chieflion]

Found another one.


NBA sources said the Washington Wizards had “light conversations” about sending center Brendan Haywood(notes) to the Portland Trail Blazers for guard Andre Miller(notes), but nothing is imminent. The transition of the Wizards’ ownership has complicated any changes the team is considering making to its roster. One NBA executive said Portland still hopes it can use Miller to net a center or small forward.


However, according to Chris Tomasson's twitter account sources close to the situation expect Haywood to remain a Wizard throughout the rest of the season. Haywood, whose $6 million deal expires at the end of the year, is having one of the best seasons of his career with averages of 9 points and 10 rebounds. He'd be a nice short-term solution for the Blazers that could help them significantly in their playoff run while providing them with a mulligan of sorts for the Miller signing.

[outmap]

It might be absurd but it's possible, why? Wade will not be in Miami next season, their FO knows that and coach Erik is having problems with Beasley with his off-court antics and lack of motivation. I don't think any team is willing to offer anything better than Parker-Dice Knowing Beasley's Gooden-like attitude and the non-guarantee of Wade resigning. Unlikely, but possible.

[Mal]

It might be absurd but it's possible, why? Wade will not be in Miami next season, their FO knows that and coach Erik is having problems with Beasley with his off-court antics and lack of motivation. I don't think any team is willing to offer anything better than Parker-Dice Knowing Beasley's Gooden-like attitude and the non-guarantee of Wade resigning. Unlikely, but possible.

So Miami would even think of trading Wade ??? :lmao

[Chieflion]

Okay guys, this trade can be had. The 76ers will agree to it I am almost certain. The question is, will the Spurs do it.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygcmgn7
It is reasonable, but I expect both teams to turn it down. Not sure why, just my thought. It may be because of Iggy because the 76ers value Iggy way higher than the Spurs. Iggy is a damn good passer too.

[TimDunkem]

Okay guys, this trade can be had. The 76ers will agree to it I am almost certain. The question is, will the Spurs do it.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygcmgn7
Pssh. They should. They're going nowhere this season. Might as well dump the bad contracts and tank. :lol

[Bruno]

Trade machine is a fun tool but making trades that make at least a little sense would be a good start.

[DPG21920]

I cannot see the Spurs doing that at all. That is wayyy to big of a move that has wayyy to many financial ramifications. Not to mention, I don't think the Spurs are that far off. I think they are a good ways, but not that much.

[MaNu4Tres]

Okay guys, this trade can be had. The 76ers will agree to it I am almost certain. The question is, will the Spurs do it.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygcmgn7

No way Spurs would do that.

Substitute Dalembert for Brand and they probably would consider it then.

[Chieflion]

No way Spurs would do that.

Substitute Dalembert for Brand and they probably would consider it then.
You subsititute Brand for Dalembert, there is no way the 76ers take Jefferson's larger contract and Anotnio McDyess's contract. The main motive to move Iggy is if the 76ers think Thaddeus Young is good enough to step into Iggy's shoes and to remove Brand's contract.

[MaNu4Tres]

You subsititute Brand for Dalembert, there is no way the 76ers take Jefferson's larger contract and Anotnio McDyess's contract. The main motive to move Iggy is if the 76ers think Thaddeus Young is good enough to step into Iggy's shoes and to remove Brand's contract.

76ers wouldn't be able to move Brand's contract period.

I have too much on my hands right now to respond to such a rebuttal.

But TD 21 explained it nicely:


I know it's a long shot, but the best, at least semi-realistic trade proposal I can come up with is Jefferson,Bonner, Finley, Splitter,and/ or a 1st round draft pick for Iguodala and Dalembert.

76ers motivation: bad team, awful attendance, bloated payroll, looking to trade either Dalembert or Brand and so desperate to do so that they may part with Iguodala to accomplish that. In Jefferson, they get a huge expiring contract for next season and a lesser version of Iguodala, who could theoretically replace the majority of his production on that team in the short term. In this trade, they accomplish said goal of dealing Dalembert, gain cap flexibility for '11 and get two quality assets in Splitter and a 1st.

Spurs motivation: it's simple, the off season makeover clearly isn't working out and the two biggest needs are a stopper who can double as a fourth option (Iguodala) and an athletic big man who can rebound, block shots and protect the rim in general (Dalembert). Add these two to Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, McDyess, Hill and Blair and you theoretically have the makings of a legit championship contender for this season and next.

I know Dalembert is a sometimes malcontent and has a low basketball IQ, but he seems like a genuinely good guy, theoretically fills the Spurs front line needs (and is significantly younger and more durable than Camby) and if taking on his contract means the Spurs acquire Iguodala, then how do they say no?

[MaNu4Tres]

Another 2 cents:

76ers would clear 12 million off the books for this summer and 14-15 million in the summer of 2011. Wise move for a team that's 2nd to last in the East and looking to rebuild. IMO

[Chieflion]

Another 2 cents:

76ers would clear 12 million off the books for this summer and 14-15 million in the summer of 2011. Wise move for a team that's 2nd to last in the East and looking to rebuild. IMO
The 76ers would not have enough cap space to make a move in 2010, so there is no point in doing the trade anyway. I think they would rather watch Dalembert expire by himself and keep the better player in Iggy. That was why I thought the two teams were bad trading partners. Iggy is better off the 2nd option because of his creating abilities and slashing ability, no knock on Parker and Ginobili, but Iggy is really the underrated player of the NBA.

[Bruno]

There is not a question of if the 76ers do that, that much I know. The only question is will the Spurs pull the trigger.

Do your really think Spurs are going to take all these big contracts?
We both know the answer at that question.

And my post wasn't specifically directed at you. When there are some trade like Parker for Wade and Beasley...

[DPG21920]

What type of players do yall think the Spurs need? Do most people think the Spurs need a player the caliber of Amare or will Haywood or a Camby do? What about the lower end like a Collison or Joel Anthony?

[Chieflion]

What type of players do yall think the Spurs need? Do most people think the Spurs need a player the caliber of Amare or will Haywood or a Camby do? What about the lower end like a Collison or Joel Anthony?
We really need either Haywood or Camby, we don't really need more offense. I pick Haywood over Camby only for his extra ability to not take those ineffective 20 footers when he can't, that is the offense I am looking for, someone who can grab offensive boards and put the ball into the basket, no plays needed.

[DPG21920]

But why would the Spurs do this?

[MaNu4Tres]

What type of players do yall think the Spurs need? Do most people think the Spurs need a player the caliber of Amare or will Haywood or a Camby do? What about the lower end like a Collison or Joel Anthony?

We need a perimeter player to take some load off of Parker and Manu's creating and scoring ability. Those two are having to do more than their bodies can handle. It is evident how they can't create the separation they used to in isolation and pick and roll situations. Especially in the 4th quarter. I thought RJ was going to be the answer, but I was dead wrong. The guy has been a disappointment. Luckily his contract is expiring after next year.

They also need a big with length that can defend, rebound and that's good enough to play significant minutes in front of Blair and McDyess. IMO

[TJastal]

We need a perimeter player to take some load off of Parker and Manu's creating and scoring ability. Those two are having to do more than their bodies can handle. It is evident how they can't create the separation they used to in isolation and pick and roll situations. Especially in the 4th quarter. I thought RJ was going to be the answer, but I was dead wrong. The guy has been a disappointment. Luckily his contract is expiring after next year.

They also need a big with length that can defend, rebound and that's good enough to play significant minutes in front of Blair and McDyess. IMO

Brandon Bass might be on the trading block, SVG doesn't know how to use him at all, and he loves bigs that can shoot the 3.

So he might be interested in Matt Bonner to act as a backup to Ryan Anderson and Rashard Lewis. Bonner wouldn't see much PT over there but would probably be a much cheaper alternative.

The trade works in the trade machine, and the magic would save 800K this year (more because of being over the cap) and then 8m over the next 2. Spurs would get a starting caliber PF/C that can really bang and has some experience hat Blair is lacking right now. Not to mention ACL's and a much stronger lower base that would help him defend the post much better than Blair.

Gortat otoh I think is pretty much a big part of their plans, doubt Van Gundy has any plans to let him go.

[cdcast]

Two Trades:

Trade #1:
Bonner, Finley, Mason, and a pick to Bulls
Salmons, Thomas to Spurs

If RJ and Manu continue to struggle in crunch time, Salmons can sub for
whoever's playing worse at the time. He can start at SG and move over to
SF when Manu comes in. And the Bulls get their cap relief getting rid of
Salmon's contract.

Trade #2
Thomas, Mahinmi to Wizards
Haywood to Spurs

The Wizards get two young big men to replace Haywood but they're both
expiring contracts so I doubt something like this would happen without the
Wizards getting a draft pick or finding a third team to take Blatche.

I know it's tough enough making just one NBA trade let alone two so this
is stretching it.

[Chieflion]

Two Trades:

Trade #1:
Bonner, Finley, Mason, and a pick to Bulls
Salmons, Thomas to Spurs

If RJ and Manu continue to struggle in crunch time, Salmons can sub for
whoever's playing worse at the time. He can start at SG and move over to
SF when Manu comes in. And the Bulls get their cap relief getting rid of
Salmon's contract.

Trade #2
Thomas, Mahinmi to Wizards
Haywood to Spurs

The Wizards get two young big men to replace Haywood but they're both
expiring contracts so I doubt something like this would happen without the
Wizards getting a draft pick or finding a third team to take Blatche.

I know it's tough enough making just one NBA trade let alone two so this
is stretching it.
Unless this is a 3 team deal, Tyrus Thomas cannot be packaged with another player in another deal.

[TD 21]

The 76ers would not have enough cap space to make a move in 2010, so there is no point in doing the trade anyway. I think they would rather watch Dalembert expire by himself and keep the better player in Iggy. That was wy I thought the two teams were bad trading partners. Iggy is better off the 2nd option because of his creating abilities and slashing ability, no knock on Parker and Ginobili, but Iggy is really the underrated player of the NBA.

Unfortunately, you're right. As much as I'd like to see this trade come to fruition, it almost certainly will not and this (along with the fact that it hasn't been reported that it's even been discussed between the two teams) is why.

As for what Bruno said, in terms of the Spurs not taking on that kind of money, that could be another potential stumbling block. Or they could look at it as Dalembert has a slightly smaller '11 expiring contract than Jeffersona and Iguodala, while his deal runs for a lot of years, could be a key building block going forward. Let's face it, this team is going to have trouble drafting (at least so long as Duncan is around and they're attempting to win championships, meaning they'll be picking in the 20s and they won't have substantial, if any, cap space) or acquiring a similar player to build with beyond the Duncan era.


What type of players do yall think the Spurs need? Do most people think the Spurs need a player the caliber of Amare or will Haywood or a Camby do? What about the lower end like a Collison or Joel Anthony?

The Spurs don't need Stoudemire. He's another player who needs the ball in his hands to be effective, is a terrible defender, a sub-par rebounder and a mediocre shot blocker. Collison and Anthony aren't enough. Collison is similar to what the Spurs have now, he's another slightly undersized, un-athletic 3rd big and Anthony, while a solid rim protector, is essentially a younger, lesser shot blocking version of Ratliff. Haywood and Camby are perfect. Both are 2nd bigs, both are legit bigs, both are shot blockers, rim protectors, rebounders and decent scorers. The thing I like is they can guard 4's or 5's, so Duncan wouldn't always have to be the lone true big on the court.

[My Fault]

[/B]

Brandon Bass might be on the trading block, SVG doesn't know how to use him at all, and he loves bigs that can shoot the 3.

So he might be interested in Matt Bonner to act as a backup to Ryan Anderson and Rashard Lewis. Bonner wouldn't see much PT over there but would probably be a much cheaper alternative.

The trade works in the trade machine, and the magic would save 800K this year (more because of being over the cap) and then 8m over the next 2. Spurs would get a starting caliber PF/C that can really bang and has some experience hat Blair is lacking right now. Not to mention ACL's and a much stronger lower base that would help him defend the post much better than Blair.

Gortat otoh I think is pretty much a big part of their plans, doubt Van Gundy has any plans to let him go.
This actually makes sense and would be good trade IMO

[outmap]

So Miami would even think of trading Wade ??? :lmao

Yes, because they won't have him next season. Might as well get something in return now than have him walk away getting nothing, much more it's for Parker and Dice.

[Chieflion]

Yes, because they won't have him next season. Might as well get something in return now than have him walk away getting nothing, much more it's for Parker and Dice.
There is something called the sign and trade.

[TJastal]

This actually makes sense and would be good trade IMO

Thanks, I think it makes perfect sense too. Magic is over the cap now and for the forseeable future. This trade would provide instant cap relief now and down the road.

They could resign Bonner to a smaller deal after this year. Bass is too damn good to be warming the bench over there. The spurs could really use an experienced banger like him. He would be an instant upgrade over Blair in the starting lineup.

[outmap]

There is something called the sign and trade.

But the Player has to agree with it, whereas they can send him anywhere now without his consent.

:toast

[Chieflion]

But the Player has to agree with it, whereas they can send him anywhere now without his consent.

:toast
You do get something out of a sign and trade, so it is not as if they get nothing out of it. Plus, the politics behind trading a top 5 player like Dwyane Wade will result in the fans turning on the team and affect tickeet sales, merchandise sales, etc.

[outmap]

You do get something out of a sign and trade, so it is not as if they get nothing out of it. Plus, the politics behind trading a top 5 player like Dwyane Wade will result in the fans turning on the team and affect tickeet sales, merchandise sales, etc.

Yeah, it's unlikely, but possible. We just have to make them remember Shaq with Orlando and Boozer with Cleveland. :toast

[Chieflion]

Yeah, it's unlikely, but possible. We just have to make them remember Shaq with Orlando and Boozer with Cleveland. :toast
Why is this guy even in the discussion. He made Cleveland give him a pay raise on his rookie contract, promised he would resign and then hopped to the Jazz. If LeBron has Boozer now, they are favorites to be 2010 NBA champions.

[Buddy Holly]

And this team needs to make a trade.

:depressed

http://mealsfromthegirlinthelittleblackdress.files.wordpr ess.com/2009/08/cookie-monster-wtf-is-this.jpg

[mexicanjunior]

But it's only January...

[ffadicted]

fuck the regular season, CIA Pop just trying to get the 8th seed and take out the Lakers while his crew is still fresh

[timtonymanu]

Yep they do. But honestly i dont think they can get the right player from a trade because there is a 14 million dollar piece of shit that doesnt do anything.

[alidanis]

Well we shoul be better than what's going on.. I bet we couldve had the same record with spending a boat load.. Disgusting

[androck]

Turn out the lights, the party's over.

[Dex]

http://www.techpin.com/wp-content/the-bullshit-button-panic-button-cool-gadgets-2.jpg

[Amarelooms]

call up Cuban...we'll give you Josh Howard for Manu...best deal ya gonna get :elephant

[HarlemHeat37]

I've lowered my expectations by a lot, and I don't mind these losses at all, as long as they lead to a trade, which is something this team desperately needs..if it doesn't lead to a trade, this team might not even make the playoffs..

Please stop drinking Pop, stop..

[Creation88]

to all the "it's only september, october, november, december, january" guys. go FUCK yourselves.

this ship was sinking the 1st month.

[timtonymanu]

Where are the it's only January people? notice they havent shown up in a while. some of them keep claiming the spurs will pick it up the next game, but the spurs end up losing. no more excuses.

[tp2021]

Fuck the long term contracts! Now is the time to pull this trade off!

I bet Holt feels the same way, I mean since the last big contract he took on in a trade did so well.

Then again, maybe he's okay with getting rid of the 2 big offseason acquisitions that haven't amounted to shit but a hole in his pocket.

[KuntryDude]

Bring the towers back. Bosh for any/everybody with the exception of TD & G Hill!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MaNu4Tres]

I'd offer 76ers Jefferson Bonner Mason 1st rounder and Splitter for Dalembert and Iggy right now.

[tp2021]

As it turns out Jefferson is not the defensive player we wanted him to be and he has trouble scoring without the playmaking ability of a pointguard like Jason Kidd.

Iguodala on the other hand is a top notch defender and Brand is no pushover. McDyess and Jefferson have been underachieving and are much more short term than the two contracts limiting the 76ers from completely rebuilding within a few years.

Well its a trade I would agree to, certainly.
If it would work out or not is still anybody's guess...just don't know about this team anymore.

[KuntryDude]

Luv my Spurs all all my Spurs fans, but honestly we've been in this situation several times only to be let down @ the end of Feb. Pop WILL NOT make any changes or trades. Sad but true! I've never seen a coach get overly content w/ playing his pet scrubs...

[MaNu4Tres]

The only way that Philly moves Iggy is if Brand is involved in the trade for contracts that don't go past next season. Dice is an excpetion because he only has 50% of his 5 million coming to him after next season and Philly can likely move it.

Your overrating Iggy and at the same time Brand has perhaps the worst trade value in the league. If 76ers were to trade Brand and Iggy to the Spurs for what you suggest, Spurs would demand a first round pick and probably another from them as well due to Brand's contract.

I don't see Brand being wanted by anyone even if Iggy is included.

[DPG21920]

This is not going to happen. It really makes no sense for the Spurs and I am sure the 76ers could get more young talent.

[SinBAD]

How about Amare for RJ and bonner?

[xellos88330]

Sign me to a 10 day contract! I want to sit on the bench too!

[Buddy Holly]

Which trade would you do?

With Philly:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yh6lfne

With Clips:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzbdfmh

[murpjf88]

Which trade would you do?

With Philly:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yh6lfne

With Clips:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzbdfmh

Clips by a mile. Philly deal will never happen. I have been saying they should go after kaman all along now.

[hsxvvd]

Which trade would you do?

With Philly:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yh6lfne

With Clips:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzbdfmh

No to the Philly deal, simply because I wouldn't trade Manu for anybody. He deserves to finish his career a spur.

Yes to the Kaman trade, but he wouldn't get under Pop's pre-game limbo.

But neither Philly or LA are doing either of those.

[hsxvvd]

Wolves trade?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygmqy9m

[murpjf88]

Wolves trade?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygmqy9m

Minnesota would reject that.

[TJastal]

Oh, concerning that Bass for Bonner trade idea, I bet SVG would go for it if the spurs added their 2011 1st round pick. The magic need to draft a few young poing guards to refresh the stable and adding that pick just might get it done.

At this point, its a gamble whether that pick would be useful, and I'm betting it certainly
(98% chance) wouldn't net a player better than Bass. So why not use it.

[Big P]

What does Bass do that Blair doesn't?

[TJastal]

What does Bass do that Blair doesn't?

Glad you asked.

At first glance they may appear similar but if you really look deeper they are totally different players Blair is a wide body with little athleticism who relies on great timing and long arms to corral rebounds. He has a weak lower base (probably due to not having ACL's) which makes it hard for him to guard stronger players. And he can't guard taller players either. He's pretty much a defensive liability out there.

Bass otoh.

1. Has 5 years of NBA experience playing at a high level. Mavs surely wouldn't have let him go had they realized they weren't getting Gortat. People forget that.

2. Can shoot free throws at +80%, has a GREAT midrange J as well.... Blair doesn't have a perimeter shot to speak of, and his free throw shooting is atrocious.

3. Can finish around the rim with authority. 90% of the time anything he catches in the paint will be dunked with authority. None of this tap-miss-tap-miss-tap-miss shit.

4. Has tree trunks for legs, and isn't moved very easily. Where Blair relies on weight, Bass uses muscle AND weight. This makes his post defense much better.
Has a couple inches of height over Dejuan which defenitely makes a difference too.

Pretty much all of Blair's weaknesses right now are Bass' strengths. The spurs need a starting quality big man and Bass could be that man.

[xtremesteven33]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ylct4xu

[DPG21920]

Anything that involves trading TP is not a solution.

[TheBigFundamental]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yk7adyd

Big Trade!

[lurker23]

Here you guys go, I think you'll like this one:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhkjjky

:lobt2::lol

[tp2021]

Here you guys go, I think you'll like this one:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhkjjky

:lobt2::lol

:worthy:

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Here you guys go, I think you'll like this one:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhkjjky

:lobt2::lol

:lmao

[EmantheSpursFan]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjuofqe

point guard- Tony, Hill
shooting guard-Manu, Sam Young, bogans
small forward- RJ, Finley
power forward -Tim, Blair
center-Haywood, Theo, Thabeet

I would do this trade in a heartbeat.

what do y'all think?

[Chieflion]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjuofqe

point guard- Tony, Hill
shooting guard-Manu, Sam Young, bogans
small forward- RJ, Finley
power forward -Tim, Blair
center-Haywood, Theo, Thabeet

I would do this trade in a heartbeat.

what do y'all think?
This trade isn't lopsided enough, maybe you could add O.J. Mayo in the mix?

[EmantheSpursFan]

Grizz are disappointed in thabeet and would gain a cheaper version in Ian and gain a vet to help this young team in McDyess

washington gets beloved RMJ back and a big that can help spread the floor

lol

[Chieflion]

Grizz are disappointed in thabeet and would gain a cheaper version in Ian and gain a vet to help this young team in McDyess

washington gets beloved RMJ back and a big that can help spread the floor

lol
They drafted him as a project, how is Thabeet a disappointment? That alone is lopsided. The Grizzlies are trading a 7 foot 3 center with huge potential as an elite defender and decent scorer and you call it not lopsided. I am sure the Wizards really need more scoring.

[Big P]

Glad you asked.

At first glance they may appear similar but if you really look deeper they are totally different players Blair is a wide body with little athleticism who relies on great timing and long arms to corral rebounds. He has a weak lower base (probably due to not having ACL's) which makes it hard for him to guard stronger players. And he can't guard taller players either. He's pretty much a defensive liability out there.

Bass otoh.

1. Has 5 years of NBA experience playing at a high level. Mavs surely wouldn't have let him go had they realized they weren't getting Gortat. People forget that.

2. Can shoot free throws at +80%, has a GREAT midrange J as well.... Blair doesn't have a perimeter shot to speak of, and his free throw shooting is atrocious.

3. Can finish around the rim with authority. 90% of the time anything he catches in the paint will be dunked with authority. None of this tap-miss-tap-miss-tap-miss shit.

4. Has tree trunks for legs, and isn't moved very easily. Where Blair relies on weight, Bass uses muscle AND weight. This makes his post defense much better.
Has a couple inches of height over Dejuan which defenitely makes a difference too.

Pretty much all of Blair's weaknesses right now are Bass' strengths. The spurs need a starting quality big man and Bass could be that man.


Thats great and all, but Blair @ $800k per>>>>>>Bass @ $4m per

[EmantheSpursFan]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yz8sy9x

okay how about this to offside the lopside of loosing thabeet

[EmantheSpursFan]

washington looses crittenton who lately has been a huge distraction to the team and the grizz get 3 promising young players and a defensive SG

[Chieflion]

washington looses crittenton who lately has been a huge distraction to the team and the grizz get 3 promising young players and a defensive SG
I don't really know what to say. I think Sam Young stays on the Grizzlies. Bogans stays on the Spurs. There is no need to swap them. If Hairston moves to the Wizards, it will be good, or Nick Young shouldn't be given up. If the Spurs take Thabeet in, Haywood needs to go to the Grizzlies.

[EmantheSpursFan]

Honestly i like Sam Young more than Bogans and i think he's only going to get better, he's not a superstar by any means but he can certanly become a solid rotation player.

[Chieflion]

Honestly i like Sam Young more than Bogans and i think he's only going to get better, he's not a superstar by any means but he can certanly become a solid rotation player.
I think the Grizzlies want to keep Sam Young to be part of their "core" for defensive purposes. If we want Haywood, Thabeet has to go to the Wizards.

[EmantheSpursFan]

I see, sorry last post my girlfriend called me, (its offically her birthday...midnight) blah :p
anyways that distracted me earlier and i can see what your saying about haywood and thabeet. but man one man can dream right? haha

:toast:flag:

[FeZZy]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yz92cda

NICE

[mountainballer]

Here you guys go, I think you'll like this one:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yhkjjky

:lobt2::lol

great.
hope you don't mind that I tried to upgrade it.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjctkpn

[Mal]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yz92cda

NICE

Throw Finley in to Chicago for Dudley. Bulls looking to clear their roster and have cap space for 2 all- stars. They are looking for expirings.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ygossjd

[lurker23]

great.
hope you don't mind that I tried to upgrade it.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjctkpn

:tu

Thought about that one, but figured it might make too much basketball sense to try to get Hedo back for his contract compared to RJ's. :lol

[ffadicted]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjzw9ms

Parker, Battier, Jefferson, Blair, Duncan start; Hill, Ginobili, McDyess, RMJ off the bench, 9 man rotation, huge upgrade on the perimeter D, no more small ball, insta win

Come on Houston do us a solid lol

[5in10]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjzw9ms

Parker, Battier, Jefferson, Blair, Duncan start; Hill, Ginobili, McDyess, RMJ off the bench, 9 man rotation, huge upgrade on the perimeter D, no more small ball, insta win

Come on Houston do us a solid lol

I think someone on espn actually said for ppl to look for them to trade battier to get even more under the cap for this summer...I do like this trade and would hope houston would cut either finley or bonner.

[HarlemHeat37]

Haywood is currently #3 in ESPN's DPOY rankings, which are written by Dwight Howard..I don't agree with that and it's irrelevant anyways, but Howard HAS said in the past that Haywood is probably the best defender against him, which speaks well and backs up my point about his ability inside..I don't like the hype, it'll bring more suitors..RC needs to make something happen..

[TJastal]

Thats great and all, but Blair @ $800k per>>>>>>Bass @ $4m per

So what is your point exactly? Is the object to spend as little money as possible for another 1st round exit or spend a little more for that missing piece to win a championship?

[FlAVaK]

So what is your point exactly? Is the object to spend as little money as possible for another 1st round exit or spend a little more for that missing piece to win a championship?

4 is way more than 0.8
Like five times more...

And the production of those two players is nearly the same!

So what was your point again?

[TJastal]

4 is way more than 0.8
Like five times more...

And the production of those two players is nearly the same!

So what was your point again?

lol you obviously didn't read a thing I wrote earlier.

[scottspurs]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

The only trade I would be happy with if we are going to trade Manu and/or Tony is:

Spurs get: Dwayne Wade, Lebron James, and Dwight Howard

Cavs get: Manu and Mason

Heat get: Tony and Bonner

Magic get: Jefferson and Finley

The money works (try it) and this is the only way I would want to trade two players that have done so much for the Spurs Franchise.

[Agloco]

[/B]

Brandon Bass might be on the trading block, SVG doesn't know how to use him at all, and he loves bigs that can shoot the 3.

So he might be interested in Matt Bonner to act as a backup to Ryan Anderson and Rashard Lewis. Bonner wouldn't see much PT over there but would probably be a much cheaper alternative.

The trade works in the trade machine, and the magic would save 800K this year (more because of being over the cap) and then 8m over the next 2. Spurs would get a starting caliber PF/C that can really bang and has some experience hat Blair is lacking right now. Not to mention ACL's and a much stronger lower base that would help him defend the post much better than Blair.

Gortat otoh I think is pretty much a big part of their plans, doubt Van Gundy has any plans to let him go.

Seriously?

Now Blair has a weak lower base? And that's exactly why the Magic would snap him up? :rolleyes

As for a move.........anything involving RJ would be great by me. He just doesn't work in our system unfortunately. As the weeks have progressed, I've become convinced that he's reached his peak potential with us, which is quite sad.

I'd also be in favor of trading Parker and Manu (preferably not together though)

[HarlemHeat37]

So Arenas is suspended for the season and allegedly WANTS his contract to be avoided..

So can any salary guys(Bruno, mountainballer, etc) explain how this would affect the Wizards' willingness to make a trade..

[TJastal]

Seriously?

Now Blair has a weak lower base? And that's exactly why the Magic would snap him up? :rolleyes

As for a move.........anything involving RJ would be great by me. He just doesn't work in our system unfortunately. As the weeks have progressed, I've become convinced that he's reached his peak potential with us, which is quite sad.

I'd also be in favor of trading Parker and Manu (preferably not together though)

Uh.., ya? Doesn't it makes sense...

It's clear Blair does not have good lateral movement. That is why is pick and roll defense and rotations are slow. Missing the ACL's I have to assume would be a part of this. The ACL's provide the support around his knee for making high impact / high energy explosive moves. He can only apply so much pressure on his knees (which is not alot) or risk injury.

If you haven't noticed, Blair does not jump off the floor very far either, he uses his long limbs and great timing to get rebounds. This falls right in line with his knees not having that kind of strength. Upper body wise he's a defenite load. But you don't use your upper body to hold your position you use your lower body.

[TJastal]

Oh, and my suggestion was to trade Matt Bonner, not Blair. Blair would come off the bench w/ Dice (they make a pretty formidable tandem actually), and Bass would start alongside Duncan.

Magic would save $$$$ with Bonner this year and be able to resign him next year for less than what Bass was making.

[Agloco]

Oh, and my suggestion was to trade Matt Bonner, not Blair. Blair would come off the bench w/ Dice (they make a pretty formidable tandem actually), and Bass would start alongside Duncan.

Magic would save $$$$ with Bonner this year and be able to resign him next year for less than what Bass was making.

Ahhh...makes more sense now. :toast

I thought the trade was Bass for Blair......

[TJastal]

I could totally see Van Gundy / Otis Smith doing this to save some $$$ on a player who is getting paid 4 mil a year and not seeing more than a handful of minutes every 5th game.

Not only that, the fact that they would be helping the spurs match up a little better against the lakers would be a bonus to them, as I'm fairly certain they have no love for Kobe & co.

[TJastal]

Ahhh...makes more sense now. :toast

I thought the trade was Bass for Blair......

Yah, Van Gundy loves his 3 pt shooters and seems to have designed his whole game plan around that strategy.. Bonner makes sense for him to have in that regard.

[mountainballer]

So Arenas is suspended for the season and allegedly WANTS his contract to be avoided..

So can any salary guys(Bruno, mountainballer, etc) explain how this would affect the Wizards' willingness to make a trade..

Bruno can give the more accurate answer, but I try.
if I checked right, the suspension of Arenas will be for 50 games overall. this means he looses 9.8 million of his 16.1 million salary. 50% (4.9M) of this number will be removed from the 78.7 M payroll, so finally the Wizards will be about 3.9M over the threshold. to dump this number doesn't seem impossible and I'm pretty sure this will be their priority till deadline. first they will try to get a TE and likely offer some nice teaser. first they will put Fab on the market (likely add his remaining salary as the teaser, maybe a 2nd rounder as well)). about 10 teams have a TE good enough for this. one will bite.
next step might be a bigger trade, that brings back less salary. minus 2 million is realistic. (for example Jamison plus Crittenton plus Mcguire for Z would work and put them under the threshold) whever offers them such a deal, will get the price IMO.
(a package of Haywood, Blatche and McGuire for Mason, Bonner and Ratliff would work either to put them under the threshold btw., if there are only 2 million to dump after a Fab for TE trade)

[Blackjack]

(a package of Haywood, Blatche and McGuire for Mason, Bonner and Ratliff would work either to put them under the threshold btw., if there are only 2 million to dump after a Fab for TE trade)

You just had to throw McGuire in there (my James Jones, so to speak :lol).

The problem I have from a basketball standpoint is, who's going to space the floor and knock down a three consistently? Could Manu, Hill, Jefferson and the carcass of Finley get done what the team in '04 couldn't (a team comprised of scorers more than dead-eyes on the perimeter)?

Is there a feasible way to address such an issue if this trade came to fruition?

[Bigzax]

i'd love to swap richard jefferson for maggette and raja bell...:flag:

[mountainballer]

You just had to throw McGuire in there (my James Jones, so to speak :lol).

The problem I have from a basketball standpoint is, who's going to space the floor and knock down a three consistently? Could Manu, Hill, Jefferson and the carcass of Finley get done what the team in '04 couldn't (a team comprised of scorers more than dead-eyes on the perimeter)?

Is there a feasible way to address such an issue if this trade came to fruition?

youre welcome:toast
but I can't answer your concerns. yes, the team would lack shooters.
I'm to tired (it 0:30 here) to work out a trade that brings in Mike Miller either.
(well THAT's something I would love. but then we don't have the contracts left for a move like Haywood)
however, the question was, what will be the effect of the Arenas suspension and I think the answer is, that the Wizards will look even harder for short term dump trades, because now they can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[Blackjack]

i'd love to swap richard jefferson for maggette and raja bell...:flag:

One of the better options available.

I'll let mountainballer's words do it justice, though:

RJ+Fin+Ian+Haislip+ (1st rounder 2011 if needed)
for
Maggette+Randolph+Bell

why do the Warriors bite?
they save money long term, but the major point is, that RJ's contract expires 2011, then they would become a major player in the 2011 free agency.
RJ should give them similar production like Maggette till then.
the class of 2011 isn't as shining as 2010, but there will still be some interesting options (Amare, Yao, David West, maybe Melo, AK47, ), especially when considering also the RFAs. (Noah, Horford, Oden, ). 2010 and 2011 they will get lottery picks, maybe 2010 even a top 3. 2011 they will know the missing pieces and this trade will give them the flexibility to react.

why do the Spurs bite?
they save money short term, almost 5 million in taxes and salary this season plus 6 million next season,if they are still tax payer 2011. (if they re sign Manu they will be)
11 million, that's what Maggette would get in 2012-13. overall this would make the whole deal a wash financially for the Spurs.
Randolph is a top talent with star potential. Spurs usually don't get the chance to get such players. no need to talk about the upside.
(btw. I would still do the deal, if Randolph is not included)
and Bell could become a nice plus, if he in fact is back in March as reported. yes, it would only be about 20 games to work him into the rotation and into shape, but I do think he would be able to provide more help than Finley. if not, Spurs didn't lose much.

[HarlemHeat37]

Utah's play-by-play announcer has a radio show, and he was saying that the Jazz front office were discussing an offer for Haywood in exchange for their 6 million $ TE from Matt Harpring's contract..interesting..

[TJastal]

Utah's play-by-play announcer has a radio show, and he was saying that the Jazz front office were discussing an offer for Haywood in exchange for their 6 million $ TE from Matt Harpring's contract..interesting..

They have Okur/Boozer/Millsap, which are 3 starting quality bigs. WTF they need a 4th for?

[dbestpro]

i'd love to swap richard jefferson for maggette and raja bell...:flag:

RJs contract (if he doesn't progress) will be a huge bargaining chip this time next year (15 mil expiring contract) and could attract a player of the superstar caliber from a team in financial trouble.

[TD 21]

Jefferson for Maggette and Bell is a good one. If the Spurs could do that and then turn around and trade expiring contracts and a 1st round pick (it might take Splitter, as well) to acquire Camby or Haywood, that would theoretically vault them back into contender status. Possible roster...

Starters: PF- Duncan, SF- Maggette, C- Camby, SG- Bell, PG- Parker

Bench: SG- Ginobili, PF- McDyess, PG/SG- Hill, PF- Blair, SG/SF- Finley, C- Ratliff, SG- Bogans

Inactive: SG/SF- Hairston

I'm assuming Finley, if dealt, is bought out and re-signs for the remainder of the season. The team would need a third PG for depth purposes (Daniels possibly? I know he was done last year and hasn't played this year, but there's not a lot to choose from).

[crc21209]

Utah's play-by-play announcer has a radio show, and he was saying that the Jazz front office were discussing an offer for Haywood in exchange for their 6 million $ TE from Matt Harpring's contract..interesting..

Wow thats it? I think the Spurs could come up with a better offer than that for Haywood..

[Brazil]

IMO there won't be any significant trade

[dbestpro]

IMO there won't be any significant trade

Just get us a big, any big that Pop will trust to play and kill this small ball crap. That alone will allow the smalls to get back to playing their natural game. I would even be moe than happy to welcome Oberto back.

[5in10]

RJs contract (if he doesn't progress) will be a huge bargaining chip this time next year (15 mil expiring contract) and could attract a player of the superstar caliber from a team in financial trouble.

I've been thinking about that, why wouldn't a team like the 76ers trade iggy for Jefferson when his contract ends in 2011 and iggy is locked down for five years? Especially if we throw in some draft picks to help them rebuild? I understand they want to get rid of dalambert too but at this point it doesn't look like there's any buyers.Oh what's do you guys think of a finley for Ronnie brewer trade to shore up our defense and give the jazz some cap relief?

[HarlemHeat37]

Brand shows some flashes, but he has arguably the worst contract in the NBA..no thanks..

[Bruno]

With Arenas and Crittenton suspended for the year, Wizards will be $4.8M over the threshold.

They will surely trade Jamison and goes closer to the threshold but if it isn't enough Spurs could easily allow them to lower their payroll by $2M or $3M in a Haywood trade. There could have a nice trade opportunity with Wizards for Spurs.

[HarlemHeat37]

With Arenas and Crittenton suspended for the year, Wizards will be $4.8M over the threshold.

They will surely trade Jamison and goes closer to the threshold but if it isn't enough Spurs could easily allow them to lower their payroll by $2M or $3M in a Haywood trade. There could have a nice trade opportunity with Wizards for Spurs.

Nice opportunity indeed..

Assuming Jamison gets traded to the Cavs, which has been the strong rumor for a while(Big Z + Hickson), how much do you think that would affect their willingness to move Haywood?..

Also, under your scenario after the Arenas/Crittenton situations, do you think the Spurs would still most likely have to take Blatche back in a trade for Haywood?..

[Bruno]

I'm not quite sure, but doesn't the NBA give teams around 5 million dollars if they are under the tax?

This year the bonus for being under the tax will be around $4M. All in all, Wizards will save about $11M if they go jsut under the tax ($5M in luxury tax + $4M in bonus + $2M in remaining salary).

[Bruno]

Nice opportunity indeed..

Assuming Jamison gets traded to the Cavs, which has been the strong rumor for a while(Big Z + Hickson), how much do you think that would affect their willingness to move Haywood?..

Also, under your scenario after the Arenas/Crittenton situations, do you think the Spurs would still most likely have to take Blatche back in a trade for Haywood?..

A Jamison for Big Z and Hickson trade will raise Wizards payroll by $1.3M. I doubt a Jamison to Cavs trade will be that one.

I don't think a Jamison trade will be enough to put them below the tax. There will need also to move Butler or Haywood.

Wizards wanting or no that other teams take Blatche isn't really related on thier luxury tax situation but more on what they value the most between his talent and his bad attitude.

[Bruno]

Once everything has been agreed upon by the front office and Washington owners I think the firesale will begin. However, I have a hard time seeing Jamison leaving. He is very important to the community and team. He is similar to Manu for us. It will be a tough sell for the Wizards to part with him unless they just want to be gone with everyone apart of that team.

Well, Wizards are now in rebuilding mode and keeping a 33 years old player with a big contract doesn't really make sense in that situation.

[mountainballer]

the fascinating thing about the Wizards is, that there are really a lot of scenarios that could somehow bring in a useful piece in a trade with them. a shame that a team with such a deep and talented roster can ever do that bad.

another one?
Jamison plus Haywood for Jefferson plus the 2010 1st rounder.
yes, looks a bit weired on first sight (and it's not my favorite trade proposal with them) but there are some aspects. they dump 3.4 million immediately and they save the last year of Jamison's contract. they will become a major player in the 2011 free agency.
I don't want to claim they can't find a better deal. but who knows.

Spurs? they take another huge salary back. on the other hand, they bring in a lot of talent and size for a player, who just doesn't fit. they could suddenly go from small ball to giant ball with Tim, Haywood and Jamison on the floor and that way match a Gasol, Bynum, Odom line up.
Jamison is not young, but at 33 he is still producing big numbers and doesn't have a problem to play huge minutes. should be able to deliver next season either.
and his last year, well it might be useful to have a big expiring contract at that time.

[dre783]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykh2zgn

would spurs/raps do this?

[lurker23]

Some trade-related tidbits from Marc Stein here:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/12681/blazers-search-for-size-and-other-trade-chatter

Nothing that relates directly to the Spurs, but a few that could relate indirectly.

"The Blazers have indeed registered their interest in Washington center Brendan Haywood, given Haywood’s obvious appeal as a short-term replacement – with an expiring $6 million contract – for the fallen Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla.

But one source close to the situation said that the talks didn’t go far when the Wiz indicated that they’d want both Rudy Fernandez and Nicolas Batum headlining the return package for Haywood, who’s averaging 9.8 points, 10.6 rebounds and 2.1 blocks. "

(If the Wizards wanted Fernandez and Batum for Haywood, not sure who they would want from the Spurs, nor whether San Antonio would be willing to pay that high cost.)

"It’s no secret that the Bulls want to clear as much salary-cap space as they can for this summer’s free-agent bonanza, which is why you’re hearing more and more about their willingness to move Kirk Hinrich and John Salmons as covered here last week."

(Notable since a lot of people here were advocating Salmons and/or Thomas.)


"Another recent topic discussed in this cyberspace: Philadelphia's attempts to interest Cleveland in a deal for Andre Iguodala.

....

Iguodala, though, is difficult for Philly to move because of all that money he’s still owed. Not as difficult as moving Elton Brand or Samuel Dalembert, but all of the teams that like Iguodala – Houston, Dallas and Cleveland are known to have shown varying degrees of interest – have reservations about taking on a deal that big. "

(Only notable because a couple people, including Phila_Chamberlain, have mentioned trades involving Iggy. Honestly, I didn't feel there was much chance that Philly would seriously want to move him; I'll certainly admit that I was wrong in that regard. Still, I think a trade involving Iggy to the Spurs is still less likely than most.)

[Admidave50]

no way in hell the Blazers will send young talents such as Rudy or Batum for Haywood. Blazers won't go to Conf. finals this year and they'll get Prizbilla and Oden next year, same players as Haywood!

[portnoy1]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykh2zgn

would spurs/raps do this?I woudnt wanna give up blair, and I also wouldnt wanna give up Parker if were not gonna get a PG back.

[HarlemHeat37]

I really hope the Wizards aren't seriously asking for that high of a price..Haywood is a rental right now, and the Wizards aren't going anywhere as a team, so it doesn't make sense for them to be asking for a package like that..IMO, they're just trying to hold their ground since teams are probably trying to lowball/take advantage of them with all the drama going on in Washington..

[5in10]

whats the deal between the 76ers and timberwolves?

[mystargtr34]

A cool stat i saw on ESPN earlier, from Elias Sports Bereau.

The Clippers' Chris Kaman, edged out of an All-Star berth by Randolph, recently became just the fifth center in the league to post two 20-point games in the same season in head-to-head starts against Washington's Brendan Haywood. The others: Shaquille O'Neal (2004-05 season and 2005-06), Orlando's Dwight Howard (2006-07), Milwaukee's Andrew Bogut (2007-08) and Phoenix's Amare Stoudemire (2007-2008).

[MaNu4Tres]

Parker Bonner Splitter 1st rounder for Bosh and Jack?

[Blackjack]

Without giving it much thought.. :tu

[MaNu4Tres]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykt8vdb

Throw in Splitter and a first rounder.

PG Hill
SG Bogans
SF Jefferson
PF Duncan
C Bosh

6th man SG/SF- Manu
PG- Jack
PF/C- Blair
PF/C- McDyess
SG- Mason
C- Ratliff
SF/SG- Hairston

[Blackjack]

What about Hamilton for Jefferson?

[MaNu4Tres]

What about Hamilton for Jefferson?

No thank you.

[Bruno]

What about Hamilton for Jefferson?

Taking a contract that goes beyond 2012 isn't a good idea for Spurs. IMO, They will only do it if in a no-brainer deal and RJ for Hamilton isn't.

[MaNu4Tres]

Taking a contract that goes beyond 2012 isn't a good idea for Spurs. IMO, They will only do it if in a no-brainer deal and RJ for Hamilton isn't.

What about the proposal at the bottom of last page?

[DPG21920]

I have to agree with no on the RH trade. Not only a bad contract, but a bad fit imo.

[Bruno]

I really hope the Wizards aren't seriously asking for that high of a price..Haywood is a rental right now, and the Wizards aren't going anywhere as a team, so it doesn't make sense for them to be asking for a package like that.

Haywood isn't a rental. He is still a quite young player and a lot of teams are surely seeing him as a player they could re-sign him next summer and who could be a big part of their future. Haywood will likely be out Spurs' price range because of that.

Spurs have a way better chance to get a player like Camby. After back to back losses to Nets and Wolves, Clippers could finally decide to give up on this season. A trade like Bonner + Finley + Mahinmi + Ratliff + 1st round pick for Camby + Skinner is a quite good one for both sides.

[Blackjack]

Taking a contract that goes beyond 2012 isn't a good idea for Spurs. IMO, They will only do it if in a no-brainer deal and RJ for Hamilton isn't.

Even if it nets them a cut in their luxury-tax this year and next and he's only got one more guaranteed year after?

[Bruno]

What about the proposal at the bottom of last page?

IMO, it isn't realistic at all. I don't see Spurs doing a that big trade.

[Blackjack]

I have to agree with no on the RH trade. Not only a bad contract, but a bad fit imo.

Take salary out of the equation, or more specifically, the extra year at $12.5.

Do you like him better than RJ as a fit?

[DPG21920]

Take salary out of the equation, or more specifically, the extra year at $12.5.

Do you like him better than RJ as a fit?

No, and that was my main train of thought. I don't think RJ is the best fit, but I can see how he can work. I don't see how Rip's game fits.

[MaNu4Tres]

Rips strength is coming off screens and his mid-range game. That's not a need. Besides Mason and Finley can do that just fine with the scarce opportunities there is for that to happen.

[Bruno]

Even if it nets them a cut in their luxury-tax this year and next and he's only got one more guaranteed year after?

The problem is that Spurs will enter in rebuilding mode and given the size of the SA market, being in rebuilding mode too long isn't at all a good thing.
Having a 35 years old Hamilton paid $12.5M isn't the best way to start a rebuilding process.

I also think Pop is in the mindset of "I've been lucky as hell to have had Duncan. One of my priority is to let the franchise in a great state when I will retire with Duncan because my successor likely won't have the chance to get a that great player."

For the same reasons, I also don't think Spurs will offer trade assets like 2013 or 2014 first round picks while they are very valuable assets.

[Blackjack]

See, I'd much rather have my bigger money invested in the 2-guard and find the defensive specialist for the 3.

Hamilton's ability to to keep a defense honest and on the move with the action created by his off the ball movement, would be a welcomed addition, imo. He's not a lock-down defender by any means, but I'd rate him a better one than RJ per the position.

I actually think he and his game would fit quite nicely on this team; he creates the play with his movement so Tony only needs to know where he's coming off the next screen to find him and his shot only helps to keep the floor spaced, as he has to be respected. Plus, and I really hope it doesn't come to this, he'd be a nice insurance policy should Manu decide to go elsewhere (or the Spurs decide to move on).

[DPG21920]

He does not have a lot of range and his offense comes from things that the Spurs don't really run. He is no longer an efficient shooter, although that might change on the Spurs, but I disagree that he is a better defender than RJ. At least his ceiling is lower.

[Blackjack]

Rips strength is coming off screens and his mid-range game. That's not a need. Besides Mason and Finley can do that just fine with the scarce opportunities there is for that to happen.

It's not about need, imo, when you're comparing RJ and Rip; the Spurs didn't need RJ, as much as they wanted to upgrade their talent (it was a no-brainer of a deal, value-wise).

I just happen to think this team would be better served having Rip's skill set and proven game than what RJ brings to the table. I'd much rather have someone like Iguodala, but that just doesn't seem likely to happen; Detroit would most likely do an RJ trade, as it helps them to clear their books sooner.

We've both agreed that the Spurs could really use a more well-rounded player at the 2, and I think Hamilton would suffice.

[DPG21920]

But at the cost of having no one to play the 3? Having Rip and Manu would be a net loss over Manu & RJ imo. I am still on the bandwagon that RJ can fit what this team needs. Does not look great as of today, but I am holding firm. He has the skill set. Much better than RIP imo.

[Blackjack]

He does not have a lot of range and his offense comes from things that the Spurs don't really run. He is no longer an efficient shooter, although that might change on the Spurs, but I disagree that he is a better defender than RJ. At least his ceiling is lower.

The Spurs don't run a lot of action the way you're used to seeing Rip do his thing, but that's because they don't have someone to do it with; they do it in small doses with Fin and others.

I honestly don't believe you can win a Championship with RJ if he's being asked to play the way he is and is taking up $14.2M in cap space (not that I hold his salary against him, just that it means you've got lesser players on the bench). He's not someone that unequivocally needs to be on the court when the game's on the line (his salary might dictate it, but not necessarily his game) and I don't like the idea of needing lesser players to be bailing players and teams out.

[Blackjack]

But at the cost of having no one to play the 3? Having Rip and Manu would be a net loss over Manu & RJ imo. I am still on the bandwagon that RJ can fit what this team needs. Does not look great as of today, but I am holding firm. He has the skill set. Much better than RIP imo.

I'm afraid I've already conceded the Spurs not winning this year (hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the Spurs winning a Championship having to play on the road for all but a round of the playoffs; assuming they're in them), so I'm looking at this as a two-year window. You obviously can't just throw away the year when you've got Tim playing the way he is, so I'm not suggesting tanking, but I don't think trying to fit a square peg, RJ, in a round hole is the answer either.

If given only the choice of RJ or Rip over the next two years (I'm not sold on this being the best or a must-do scenario), I'd like my chances better with Hamilton and whomever I could find or promote from within to be my defensive 3.

I think you'd get a better fit and talent distribution that way.

[Boss]

Hey Bruno, I highly respect your opinion on this site. just wondering how A trade like Bonner + Finley + Mahinmi + Ratliff + 1st round pick for Camby + Skinner is a quite good one for both sides. Is the 1st round pick what would be most appealing or can Finley or Bonner be bought out so Clippers can save money?

[HarlemHeat37]

Haywood isn't a rental. He is still a quite young player and a lot of teams are surely seeing him as a player they could re-sign him next summer and who could be a big part of their future. Haywood will likely be out Spurs' price range because of that.


Any team that acquires him has to face the risk that he won't re-sign with them though..it's obviously a possibility..the team that trades for him will probably have the better shot at retaining him next season and beyond, but it's obviously still a risk..

So I would classify that as a potential rental player..definitely not something I would give up both Batum and Fernandez for..

[Blackjack]

Finley, Bonner, Mahinmi and Ratliff are expiring contracts, the carrot would be the first-rounder and Mahinmi (more so the first-rounder, though).

[lurker23]

Hey Bruno, I highly respect your opinion on this site. just wondering how A trade like Bonner + Finley + Mahinmi + Ratliff + 1st round pick for Camby + Skinner is a quite good one for both sides. Is the 1st round pick what would be most appealing or can Finley or Bonner be bought out so Clippers can save money?


Finley, Bonner, Mahinmi and Ratliff are expiring contracts, the carrot would be the first-rounder and Mahinmi (more so the first-rounder, though).

Also, that combination of players would save the Clippers roughly $1 mil for the rest of the year.

[Bruno]

Hey Bruno, I highly respect your opinion on this site. just wondering how A trade like Bonner + Finley + Mahinmi + Ratliff + 1st round pick for Camby + Skinner is a quite good one for both sides. Is the 1st round pick what would be most appealing or can Finley or Bonner be bought out so Clippers can save money?

It's mainly the first round pick that would attract Clippers. It would be a similar trade to the Kurt Thomas trade Spurs made with Seattle.

[Boss]

Camby would be a great addition but w/ knowing the Spurs almost got him last yr at the deadline for bowen fab and george hill, I think the Clippers would want Hill to be included in any upcoming deal. I can't see the Spurs parting w/ GHill especially w/ Parker's injury issues.

[TJastal]

Camby is 35 years old and injury prone. Trading away half the bench for this guy would be a risky move. If he went down (or McDyess/etc) what would the spurs do? They would be screwed.

I don't like that deal at all.

[FkLA]

Parker and picks for Bosh...

Do it RC.

[HarlemHeat37]

Can timvp or Kori do the automated system shit they do when somebody mispells Elliott, except for when anybody mentions Bosh here?

[Blackjack]

Camby is 35 years old and injury prone. Trading away half the bench for this guy would be a risky move. If he went down (or McDyess/etc) what would the spurs do? They would be screwed.

I don't like that deal at all.

Of the proposed players, only Bonner can be thought of as having a significant role when healthy and according to one GM, this could be one of the greatest buyout seasons ever.

• Buyouts (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/ian_thomsen/01/29/countdown.trade.deadline/index.html). "This might be one of the greatest buyout seasons ever,"
another GM said. "Think about your savings: You have a $10 million player, and you save $800,000 by buying him out so he can go play for a contender. That $800,000 is going to mean a lot to teams these days, especially if you're paying a luxury tax on that guy."

Nothing too sexy out there but players sent for Camby could possibly come back; former Spurs Nesterovic, Thomas and Oberto are among a few that could potentially be bought out as well (I know that has the masses salivating).

[Blackjack]

Can timvp or Kori do the automated system shit they do when somebody mispells Elliott, except for when anybody mentions Bosh here?

They'd have to make it happen when Bosh and Manu were used within proximity of a couple of words, or something to that effect..

I'd support it.:tu

[AFBlue]

Kevin Martin has started rounding into shape (two 30+ point games in a row), but the Kings are still losing. I'm willing to bet that the Kings will make Kevin Martin available before the deadline to see if they can get a nice young piece and more importantly, immediate cap space.

Spurs could work one of two deals:

Spurs trade Ginobili and Mahinmi or 1st rd pick for Martin

Spurs trade Ginobili, Bonner, Finley and Mahinmi or 1st rd pick for Martin, Nocioni and fillers (Rodriguez/Brockman/Greene)

__________________________________________________

Obviously the Spurs would prefer option #1, not having to take on the additional salary of Nocioni...but it may be necessary to do if they're not willing to give up better young talent (Hill or Blair).

The Kings' main motivation for this move would be to put them in a position to be MAJOR players in what promises to be one of the best FA summers ever. They'd have the space to go after a difference-making big man like Stoudamire, Bosh or Boozer and possibly enough (under scenario 2) to make a big offer to someone like Rudy Gay. Oh, and they'd also have the inside track (bird-rights) to sign Ginobili if they so chose to do so.

In short, the Kings could basically remake their team this summer around Evans/Casspi and the immense talent available this off-season.

For the Spurs the motivation is simple...when healthy, Martin is one of the best pure scorers in the league. He's young-but-proven and is under contract through his prime. Obviously the biggest risk is with his injury history, but the Spurs would assume the same thing with Ginobili going forward if they chose to re-sign him...and he's on the wrong side of 30 too.

Makes sense to me...anyone else on board?

[ElNono]

We need better defense, not offense.I wouldn't mind a guy like Martin, but he ain't going to solve our weak defense inside or on the perimeter. If I wanted to take a gamble, I would give Raja Bell a shot and see if he can be what Bogans looked like he was going to be, but failed to deliver...

[AFBlue]

We need better defense, not offense.I wouldn't mind a guy like Martin, but he ain't going to solve our weak defense inside or on the perimeter. If I wanted to take a gamble, I would give Raja Bell a shot and see if he can be what Bogans looked like he was going to be, but failed to deliver...

I hear what you're saying, but I was trying to live up to the OPs thread title...namely the "big" part. While Bell and guys like Camby, Haywood and Dalembert are nice pieces, I'm just not sure they fill the "big" requirement.

Martin, on the other hand, is a swing-for-the-fences type of acquisition that considers the present and future.

[timvp]

Martin makes sense, though the Kings would likely want more than Manu and Mahinmi or a first rounder. At the very least, it'd probably cost Manu, Splitter, Mahinmi and/or a first.

Would I pull the trigger? That'd be a tough one to turn down. Getting a 26-year-old guard who can score 20 points in his sleep without taking a lot of shots doesn't happen everyday. It probably hurts the championship odds this year but could possibly extend the window.

[FkLA]

Honestly I wouldnt even trade Manu straight up for Martin...much less add Mahinmi, Splitter's rights, and picks. He's an explosive scorer but not much else and we've witnessed how well scorers adjust to our team with RJ.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't want Martin, but he's a much more versatile scorer than RJ..he can create his own shot consistently, he gets to the line as well as anybody in the NBA, AND he can shoot the J better than RJ..

Jefferson's problem isn't that he's just a scorer, it's that his type of scoring doesn't necessarily fit as well here..

[FkLA]

I think his poor play has made some people forget RJ's game, dude is capable of more he just hasnt fit in/been implemented correctly for whatever reason. If Im not mistaken RJ once led the league in FTA...and his last two years he attempted around 550 and 650 FTs respectively. So he has always been more than capable of driving and creating his own shot. And while I wont argue that Martin is the better scorer, I do think he would be turned into a glorified jumpshooter like RJ has been.

[ElNono]

Is Martin a good spot up shooter? Can he score without having the ball in his hands?
A lot of us thought the Spurs would change their offense a bit now that TD and Manu are declining, in order to integrate a guy like RJ in, but none of that happened. What makes you think it would be any different with a guy like Martin?

[TMTTRIO]

Might not be a bad trade. Even if Manu gets his shooting touch back we'd still be getting a younger guard who can really score and isn't on the wrong side of 30. Besides I don't think Manu's going to come back next year so it might be good to get something for him now.

[AFBlue]

Martin makes sense, though the Kings would likely want more than Manu and Mahinmi or a first rounder. At the very least, it'd probably cost Manu, Splitter, Mahinmi and/or a first.

Would I pull the trigger? That'd be a tough one to turn down. Getting a 26-year-old guard who can score 20 points in his sleep without taking a lot of shots doesn't happen everyday. It probably hurts the championship odds this year but could possibly extend the window.

Sounds about right...

The Kings supposedly turned down an offer from the Mavs for Martin and Nocioni that had Josh Howard, Drew Gooden (expiring) and JJ Barea.

While my Spurs bias would have me believe that the Kings would be more interested in Ginobili (consider signing long-term) than Howard, I agree that it might take something like Splitter's rights to get it done.

That'd be a tough pill to swallow, but it defintely would merit consideration.

[Bruno]

Heh. Just thought I'd share. After taking forever I finally got a response on the question of the Chris Paul/Tony Parker trade. Never even brought up by either front office. The hornets were really surprised CP3 was even considered in trade rumors.

Are you really surprised, it came from Hoopsworld...

[AFBlue]

Is Martin a good spot up shooter? Can he score without having the ball in his hands?
A lot of us thought the Spurs would change their offense a bit now that TD and Manu are declining, in order to integrate a guy like RJ in, but none of that happened. What makes you think it would be any different with a guy like Martin?

Martin's main appeal is that he can score from anywhere in anyway. He's a crafty player that works both on and off the ball to get his shot off...and he converts or gets to the foul line alot.

[FkLA]

RJ was able to get to the foul line just as much as K-Mart before he came to San Antonio. Always shot a high percentage from the field and been around 35% from three. I could see Martin being slightly more succesful because he has a better shot but I would expect the rest of his game to drop off just like RJ, he would turn into a glorified shooter.

There is no appeal there. Especially if it means losing our best playmaker.

[AFBlue]

Getting a guy like Kevin Martin for Ginobili also has the benefit of avoiding a situation with Manu this summer.

Let me explain...

Because the Spurs are over the cap and can only sign a player for up to the MLE, and because losing a player like Ginobili decreases the chances that the Spurs can legitimately contend, he'll have all the bargaining power in negotiations.

That means Manu could essentially hold the Spurs hostage this summer and the end result is likely to be unfavorable anyway you look at it...Spurs end up overpaying/signing for too many years or Spurs lose "contender" status because Manu walks.

With that in mind, I'd also consider trading Ginobili for Iguadola or either of Jamison/Butler.

[Cane]

The biggest trade I see happening involves trading some of our roleplayers for new ones. Bogans, Mason, and Ian being the most likely candidates especially if there's a legitimate perimeter defender/3-point specialist around.

[AFBlue]

RJ was able to get to the foul line just as much as K-Mart before he came to San Antonio. Always shot a high percentage from the field and been around 35% from three. I could see Martin being slightly more succesful because he has a better shot but I would expect the rest of his game to drop off just like RJ, he would turn into a glorified shooter.

There is no appeal there. Especially if it means losing our best playmaker.

RJ is an athletic slasher who has extended his shooting range over the past few years...but he's not a great shooter.

Martin is an all-around scorer that can really shoot the basketball. He can iso, catch-and-shoot or drive and finish. He's just a much better all-around offensive player.

And while I don't deny that it would hurt the Spurs to lose Ginobili's playmaking, they still have two all-star calibur playmakers in Parker and Duncan.

[TJastal]

I saw Kevin Martin play recently in person and all I can say is the guy is a skinny little twig who doesn't do anything more than shoot 3's. I'd much rather have Tyreke Evans.

I have to back FkLa here, there is no way I'd give up Manu for this skinny little twerp much less the Mahinmi, Splitter and picks.

[mountainballer]

Kevin Martin has started rounding into shape (two 30+ point games in a row), but the Kings are still losing. I'm willing to bet that the Kings will make Kevin Martin available before the deadline to see if they can get a nice young piece and more importantly, immediate cap space.

Spurs could work one of two deals:

Spurs trade Ginobili and Mahinmi or 1st rd pick for Martin

Spurs trade Ginobili, Bonner, Finley and Mahinmi or 1st rd pick for Martin, Nocioni and fillers (Rodriguez/Brockman/Greene)

__________________________________________________

Obviously the Spurs would prefer option #1, not having to take on the additional salary of Nocioni...but it may be necessary to do if they're not willing to give up better young talent (Hill or Blair).

The Kings' main motivation for this move would be to put them in a position to be MAJOR players in what promises to be one of the best FA summers ever. They'd have the space to go after a difference-making big man like Stoudamire, Bosh or Boozer and possibly enough (under scenario 2) to make a big offer to someone like Rudy Gay. Oh, and they'd also have the inside track (bird-rights) to sign Ginobili if they so chose to do so.

In short, the Kings could basically remake their team this summer around Evans/Casspi and the immense talent available this off-season.

For the Spurs the motivation is simple...when healthy, Martin is one of the best pure scorers in the league. He's young-but-proven and is under contract through his prime. Obviously the biggest risk is with his injury history, but the Spurs would assume the same thing with Ginobili going forward if they chose to re-sign him...and he's on the wrong side of 30 too.

Makes sense to me...anyone else on board?

Martin obviously isn't on the block, right?
(just because the Mavs inquired about his availability doesn't mean he is)
and 10 posts from you that start to sound almost as if the Kings had offered him to the Spurs don't change this either.
ever thought that there was a reason why they drafted Evans? look at it and you see that Evans is exactly the player you want alongside a player like Martin in the back court, if you want to balance his flaws.
they were able to play just about a dozen games together this season. why should the Kings blow what might become one of the best back courts in the league before they even had the chance to see what they could do together? they are maybe not the smartest franchise in the league, but they are not completely idiots.

btw. Manu bird rights....
ever heard about cap hold? Manu's rights cost 16 million in cap space for 2010. if they want to become a player in the free agency they of course have to renounce his rights. if their main motivation to dump Martin is to become a free agency player, why counteract this by keep Manu's rights? again, they are not super smart, but this would be an absolutely insane scenario.

and don't always come up with the 2010 free agency myth. there are likely some super stars available and there are for sure some teams with enough cap space to bid for them.
Sacramento isn't exactly the team and place this guys would choose when NY, Miami and Chicago are calling as well.

[024]

martin is good when healthy, which he has barely been the last few years. guy plays average defense at best, injury prone, but can score. it's clear ginobili can no longer fulfill the role of being the third big three. it would be refreshing to see a parker/martin backcourt instead of watching ginobili clank his shots.

martin doesn't solve the spurs' defensive woes though so it'll be a scary thought when the spurs have to go against melo or kobe.

[Chieflion]

Kevin Martin runs off screens to get himself open. He can shoot threes very well, get to the line a lot for a guy who is known as a jumpshooter but is just a scorer mainly. Isn't known for his defense and is mostly injured. He is one of the most efficient scorers in the league. Doesn't take to many shots to light up the scoreboard. I am not sure about what to think about this guy, he doesn't fit well with Tyreke Evans so far, does nothing but score, although at an elite level.

His TS% this season is 55.3%, well below his average since he averaged 20 points in the league.

In his last 3 seasons,

2006-2007: 20.2 points on 61.4% TS%, gets to the free throw line 7.1 times (incredible). He played 80 games that season. 20.1 PER.

2007-2008: 23.7 points on 61.8% TS%, gets to the free throw line 9.5 times (WTF). He only played 61 games. 21.0 PER.

2008-2009: 24.6 points on 60.1% TS%, gets to the free throw line 10.3 times (Impossible, do the superstars even go to the line that much.) He only played 51 games. 19.2 PER. Worst record in the league.


Conclusion: Other than him, no one else on the Kings can score in 2008-2009 season, he carries the load and manages to be so efficient. However, he does not show much on defense and people call him a loser because he is stuck on a bad team. Still can't get a good read on him. His downside is injuries. Positive impact: Gets the calls he wants with his flops or whatever you call it, shoots a lot at the line and converts at a 86% rate or so.

On the trading block: The Kings may want to move past the ailure of the Kevin Martin era. After Martin's prime, Tyreke Evans, Jason Thompson, Spencer Hawes, Omri Casspi, would only then reach their prime, by then, Kevin Martin would be on the decline. Trade talks surrounding Martin include the Mavs. I could also very well see him in a Cavs uniform. He would fit damn well beside LeBron.

[Halberto]

I'm surprised so many of hoping the Spurs get another scorer. All I'm hoping for is someone that can actually play a lick of defense, preferrably the paint. Hell, getting back Nesterovic, Oberto or Kurt Thomas would have me jumping up and down.

[Bruno]

A player who could be interesting to trade for is Biedrins. He is in Nellie's doghouse and Warriors could be interested to dump him because they try to sell the team. His contract is very long but he has a reasonable salary.

[mountainballer]

A player who could be interesting to trade for is Biedrins. He is in Nellie's doghouse and Warriors could be interested to dump him because they try to sell the team. His contract is very long but he has a reasonable salary.

makes sense because in general teams try to dump as much contracts as possible before they sell.
on the other hand, if the buyer is in fact Larry Ellison (who once again stated he wants to buy the Warriors 4 days ago: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4864390 ) I assume that a guy, who's capital currently is estimated 2 to 3 times as much as Paul Allen's and who would become the by far richest owner in the NBA, might be more interested in a competitive team. and therefore to sacrifice a 23 years old 7 footer, who was in all-star consideration just one year ago, might not be a move in the upgrade direction. not unless it brings in someone like Amare.

[edgar]

The bobcats are in a logjam in bigmen..could we make a trade for one of their big..Nazr Mohammed or Diop? We dont need offense from either, just defense. Nazr knows the Spurs system.

[VivaPopovich]

Bonner for Amare

[Bruno]

makes sense because in general teams try to dump as much contracts as possible before they sell.
on the other hand, if the buyer is in fact Larry Ellison (who once again stated he wants to buy the Warriors 4 days ago: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4864390 ) I assume that a guy, who's capital currently is estimated 2 to 3 times as much as Paul Allen's and who would become the by far richest owner in the NBA, might be more interested in a competitive team. and therefore to sacrifice a 23 years old 7 footer, who was in all-star consideration just one year ago, might not be a move in the upgrade direction. not unless it brings in someone like Amare.

Ric Bucher said few days ago that Warriors are looking to dump salaries:
http://twitter.com/RicBucher/status/8255947316

If I was the Warriors GM, I wouldn't trade Biedrins and I would build a team around Warriors young core (Ellis, Biedrins, Curry, Wright, Randolph).
Now, it's a strange franchise with a GM who is said to be Nellie's puppet. Since it looks like Nellie doesn't like Biedrins, I guess there is a good chance they trade him.

[Admidave50]

Wow, heard about the Wizards blowing up the team and the Tmac for Butler + Haywood? Now way in the hell, the fuckin' Rockets get this trade! We better get a hold on Haywood!!

How is Caron Butler playing this year?

[Bigzax]

Ric Bucher said few days ago that Warriors are looking to dump salaries:
http://twitter.com/RicBucher/status/8255947316

If I was the Warriors GM, I wouldn't trade Biedrins and I would build a team around Warriors young core (Ellis, Biedrins, Curry, Wright, Randolph).
Now, it's a strange franchise with a GM who is said to be Nellie's puppet. Since it looks like Nellie doesn't like Biedrins, I guess there is a good chance they trade him.


time to get maggette and bell for richardson. improve the scoring and defense. take our best shot this year and then pray for Splitter next year.

Ellis is a pipe dream and if the spurs want to trade for any big man of consequence, they better be willing to deal tony.

[5in10]

time to get maggette and bell for richardson. .

richardson=Jefferson?

[ginobili fan]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yfvonjx

[dbestpro]

richardson=Jefferson?

He wants to trade RJs son. Wait a minute. He doesn't have a son, or does he?

[Admidave50]

He wants to trade RJs son. Wait a minute. He doesn't have a son, or does he?


I dunno about having a son but he surely gots Man
calling him Daddy! Lol

[jdev82]

McDyess/Mason Jr. for Ray Allen.
or Finely/Mason Jr. Bonner for Ray
first one makes the most sense, as the contracts match better. maybe throw in some draft picks. idk. point is, contracts, plus mason(allen replacement) for ray

[Bigzax]

yeah, jefferson...sorry bout dat.

[dbestpro]

Ray Allen is making 18 million dollars, he is not being shopped the Celtics are just interested in what they might get for him. If the Spurs offered RJ a first rounder and Splitters rights for Ray Allen and Tony Allen I'd be for it. After matching the salaries of course.

That would make me shut off the TV set for years to come. RJs value remains as an expiring contract for next year. You trade now for a Ray Allen when you might get a Jefferson (Min) or other young stud that won't resign due to a team's financial collapse, next year.

[DPG21920]

Does anyone actually see the Spurs FO moving either Manu or TP? I don't. I can see them grasping to hang onto them with the hopes that they can make a small move to help their chances. Because I believe (with no real reason to point to) that the Spurs FO believes they have enough as is even if they cannot swing a deal for some help only using expiring contracts (Bonner, Finley, Mason...).

[ElNono]

I think the FO will stand pat until some team gets desperate near the deadline to dump some contracts for expirings, and only at that point the Spurs will see if they can snipe a good deal...

[AFBlue]

Martin obviously isn't on the block, right?
(just because the Mavs inquired about his availability doesn't mean he is)
and 10 posts from you that start to sound almost as if the Kings had offered him to the Spurs don't change this either.
ever thought that there was a reason why they drafted Evans? look at it and you see that Evans is exactly the player you want alongside a player like Martin in the back court, if you want to balance his flaws.
they were able to play just about a dozen games together this season. why should the Kings blow what might become one of the best back courts in the league before they even had the chance to see what they could do together? they are maybe not the smartest franchise in the league, but they are not completely idiots.

btw. Manu bird rights....
ever heard about cap hold? Manu's rights cost 16 million in cap space for 2010. if they want to become a player in the free agency they of course have to renounce his rights. if their main motivation to dump Martin is to become a free agency player, why counteract this by keep Manu's rights? again, they are not super smart, but this would be an absolutely insane scenario.

and don't always come up with the 2010 free agency myth. there are likely some super stars available and there are for sure some teams with enough cap space to bid for them.
Sacramento isn't exactly the team and place this guys would choose when NY, Miami and Chicago are calling as well.

Not sure how I pissed you off, but your tone is awfully condescending and argumentative.

I didn't write the trade proposal thinking it was a foregone conclusion or that the Spurs would make that deal...and for the record, my follow-up posts were about Martin's ability, not reaffirming my original post about the proposal itself. I saw some articles that questioned the chemistry between Martin and Evans, saw that they were still losing and suggested that they might make him available if both factors remained unchanged.

As for the bird rights, I didn't realize that extending them to Manu puts a $16M cap-hold on the Kings FO as they negotiate deals for other FAs. My bad...but again, no need to be condescending.

Finally, I'm not sure why I can't use free agency this summer as a reason they'd be willing to deal. They're already going to have enough cap space to sign one player, and IF (not saying it's inevitable) they deem the Evans/Martin isn't going to work, they'd have enough cap space to go after another player they think would work with him.

Not sure if you were just having a bad day or what, but hopefully the next time you respond it doesn't come off the way your last post did.

[DPG21920]

Phila, I am assuming you have heard nothing up until this point.

[5in10]

Not that I would ever want k. Martin on our team, but to back you up, there has been rumors about the kings willing to part with kmart because they don't see Martin and Evans as a fit in the backcourt. Most logical people also see Evans as a 2 not a 1 which of course is the same position kmart and why the kings would be willing to part with kmart for the right price.

[Truckules]

Ray Allen is making 18 million dollars, he is not being shopped the Celtics are just interested in what they might get for him. If the Spurs offered RJ a first rounder and Splitters rights for Ray Allen and Tony Allen I'd be for it. After matching the salaries of course.

I don't think acquiring Ray Allen (Edit: or Kevin Martin) would do much for this team. They need a 7 footer that is a good defender and rebounder and not a liability on offense. I don't really like Amare because he's not a great defender or rebounder.

Biedrins and Haywood are probably the two best options as of right now. Getting Biedrins would probably require Finley, Mason, and Bonner. Getting Haywood would require Finley, Bonner, and a draft pick/rights to Splitter. I think either of those trades helps tremendously, especially in the playoffs.

[FeZZy]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yl58akg

HAHA keep timmy and manu trade everyone else

[024]

for those who want brendan haywood, the wizards wanted batum AND fernandez for him. if blazers agree to even just one of them, then they have effectively outbid the spurs. i would not give up george hill for haywood, and the spurs would probably have to give up blair and splitter/1st round. may or may not be worth it to outbid the blazers.

[Flux451]

Like I said earlier, I have heard nothing from the Spurs. Which worries me.

Means the wheels are turning...and gerbils aren't the ones pushing.

[ElNono]

Is there any shenanigans we can pull to land Gerald Wallace? Larry and Pop are pals, can he do us a favor?

[5in10]

Is there any shenanigans we can pull to land Gerald Wallace? Larry and Pop are pals, can he do us a favor?

this would be my dream.

[bigdog]

Is there any shenanigans we can pull to land Gerald Wallace? Larry and Pop are pals, can he do us a favor?

I could cry for a month straight from happiness.

[024]

rjeff for gerald wallace! just do it!!!

[MaNu4Tres]

rjeff for gerald wallace! just do it!!!


While we're at it...


Jefferson for Lebron...Let's go Ferry!

[rayray2k8]

Why do these fucking noobs keeping opening new threads when this shit is here??

[024]

since paul is injured, hornets should just tank. james posey anyone? his contract is horrible but he adds overall toughness and defense.

[024]

since paul is injured, hornets should just tank. james posey anyone? his contract is horrible but he adds overall toughness and defense.
this actually got me thinking. spurs can do a last all in move.

richard jefferson + dead weight of bogans/finley + ratliff for okafor and posey.

NO might even have to throw in a pick or two because okafor and posey have horrible contracts. but in the end, this would give NO a serviceable scorer in paul's absence, keep them in the playoff hunt because the last thing they want to do is deal the finishing blow to their franchise by returning to the lottery, and jefferson's contract is like gold compared to posey and okafor's.

for the spurs, they will drastically improve in defense with okafor's interior dominance and posey's mid-range defense.

[mountainballer]

Not sure how I pissed you off, but your tone is awfully condescending and argumentative.

I was to harsh. sorry for that. I got impatient.

[ElNono]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjlb9f5

Do it RC!!

[MaNu4Tres]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yjlb9f5

Do it RC!!

Even better...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=madqll

[ElNono]

Nobody wants RJ's bad contract, that's why I only used expirings...

[Chomag]

Nobody wants RJ's bad contract, that's why I only used expirings...

I guess it's safe to say that we were the suckers...

[dbestpro]

Nobody wants RJ's bad contract, that's why I only used expirings...

RJs contract is a great contract as it expires next year verses a player who has a contract for 3-5 years. (Okafor - 5 years)

[ElNono]

RJs contract is a great contract as it expires next year verses a player who has a contract for 3-5 years. (Okafor - 5 years)

The length of the contract is relative if the player delivers what he's being paid for. Whois going to pick up the tab for $14 mill/year for a guy averaging 12PPG?

And people here think Ginobili is overpaid...

[024]

i read on espn insider that andre iguodala is still in play. what would be worth giving up? ginobili + picks/splitter? my idea of jefferson + filler for iguodala and dalembert? ginobili + filler for iguodala and dalembert? out of all the players rumored to be available, i think only iguodala wold dramatically improve this team. the question is at what price.

[mountainballer]

but we also hear that half the Wizards roster is for sale. just for the sake of discussion:
wouldn't a Caron Butler + Haywood duo help out as much or more than Iggy + Dalembert?
for probably a lower asking price and less costs long term?

[HarlemHeat37]

I would say it depends on what they want..

For impact, you could go either way, and it depends who we would have to give up..I really don't think Butler and Jefferson would fit together at all, so for me it would depend on whether or not RJ is involved..Butler has been a poor defender this season, which might be unusual for him, and he also can't really shoot 3s..I would take him, but I don't know how well he would fit..the thing I'm worried about with Butler would be that the FO would be banking on him to defend like he used to, which is what they tried to do with RJ too, and that obviously hasn't worked out..for the record, I am definitely a fan of Butler, I'm just saying..

Iguodala would be a good fit here, regardless of whether it's Manu or RJ involved in the trade IMO..he's one of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA..he doesn't shoot the 3 at a good clip, but that's partly due to shooting too many and the fact that he isn't suited to be a #1 option that has to consistently create his own shot, but he CAN make the 3 at a decent rate when he's in a rhythm..he's also a solid passer and still extremely athletic, so I think he would be a very good fit with the Spurs..

Haywood is my personal preference, I've been watching most of the Wizards games this season, I'm always impressed with his ability as a role player..Dalembert might put up sexier stats, but Haywood is definitely the bigger and better post defender..he's also much less of a bonehead..

I would be happy with either deal though, there isn't much of a difference between the 2 groups..it would completely be up to what they're asking for IMO..I'm assuming Washington will continue to play it tough and not let other teams lowball them since other teams probably feel like the Wizards are vulnerable with all the drama going on..I'm assuming Philly is going to act like they want teams to take back Brand if they want Iguodala..

I'm sure the right deal can be made around the deadline..the question for me is whether the Spurs are willing to give up Manu, Splitter and/or Hill or Blair, whether the Spurs FO is scared to attempt to pull off another "big" trade, and whether or not the Spurs FO feels like our current roster will be enough with gelling and health..

[5in10]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yf42fsg

[Zarko's Ghost]

This is not a big or sexy trade, but I think it could help the spurs.

Spurs get Raja Bell and Ronny Turiaf

Golden State gets Mason OR Finley, Bonner, Ian, and a draft pick (and Theo if his money is needed to make deal work).

Give up offense for defense without cutting into core or taking on too much long term money. Low risk and potentially good return.

[024]

butler is too much like rj for me to want him on the spurs. having both of them would be redundant. iguodala is a great two way player the spurs need. he'll come in to score and defend on the other end. unlike jefferson, iguodala is a proven defender.

also, the sixers are most likely dangling iguodala in order to get rid of dalembert's contract as well. they won't want to deal iguodala by himself so the spurs will have to take back dalembert's contract to get the good player. dalembert is servicable though, he gets rebounds and blocks but i don't think he's a good low post defender. still, he would be better than mcdyess (currently) and the seldom seen but needed ratliff.

[FatBeaner]

championship!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/inburrito/championship.jpg

[dbestpro]

I actually like this except Arenas is suspended for the year.

[Bruno]

BTW, am I The only one who fear that Manu is traded at the deadline?

I thought that keeping Manu was a no-brainer for Spurs but I'm now not that sure about that. Between the Stoudamire rumor, Manu talking a lot about his future FA status, Manu not playing well, it starts to make a lot of negative signs. I would hate to see Manu being traded but I'm starting to be ready at that idea.

[Brazil]

championship!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y239/inburrito/championship.jpg

Arenas in a spurs jersey ? are you crazy ? it could happen if Pop quits or retires

[024]

BTW, am I The only one who fear that Manu is traded at the deadline?

I thought that keeping Manu was a no-brainer for Spurs but I'm now not that sure about that. Between the Stoudamire rumor, Manu talking a lot about his future FA status, Manu not playing well, it starts to make a lot of negative signs. I would hate to see Manu being traded but I'm starting to be ready at that idea.
spurs won't trade manu unless they get someone that dramatically improves them. they won't make a wild gamble in stoudemire so it'll have to be a player the spurs can't turn down like bosh. ginobili is hurting the team with his poor shooting but not playing like complete trash to warrant a trade. he still creates plays and plays defense.

[HarlemHeat37]

I disagree about needing a player of the caliber of a Bosh to make the trade..Bosh is a top 12ish player in the NBA, that's a stretch to expect that, and I highly doubt it would take somebody of that caliber for a Manu trade..

I agree that the Spurs won't trade Manu for anything that could be a lateral move or a huge risk though..I wouldn't do that either, which is why I'm not necessarily "fearing" a Manu trade, even though I love him as a player..if he is traded, I would expect it to be for a good package..

If Philly doesn't want RJ but would take Manu + expirings and/or fillers for an Iggy/Dalembert package, would the Spurs reject that?..it would fill 2 needs..that type of trade would be interesting and possibly intriguing for the FO..

[TMTTRIO]

BTW, am I The only one who fear that Manu is traded at the deadline?

I thought that keeping Manu was a no-brainer for Spurs but I'm now not that sure about that. Between the Stoudamire rumor, Manu talking a lot about his future FA status, Manu not playing well, it starts to make a lot of negative signs. I would hate to see Manu being traded but I'm starting to be ready at that idea.

I would not be surprised if it happens. I always use to think that Manu would retire with the Spurs but like you said the way he is struggling along with the team the Spurs may need to do something big. Another thing is since he's going to be a Free Agent this summer why not get talent out of him now instead of letting him walk this summer. Also lately the way he's been talking such as how he now knows it's a business and that he has a lot of respect for Pop even if he's playing somewhere else kind of points to him being gone soon.

[Muser]

BTW, am I The only one who fear that Manu is traded at the deadline?

I thought that keeping Manu was a no-brainer for Spurs but I'm now not that sure about that. Between the Stoudamire rumor, Manu talking a lot about his future FA status, Manu not playing well, it starts to make a lot of negative signs. I would hate to see Manu being traded but I'm starting to be ready at that idea.

I would be okay with trading Manu as long as the Spurs got real good quality in return, I love Manu and everything he's done but i'd rather have what's best for the team.

[Muser]

But you have to remember the Spurs would only trade Manu if they got some real good talent in return, i'm too lazy to see who could be gotten but i'm sure Manu + other expirings could get a nice return.

[DPG21920]

I would be very surprised to see Manu traded. I think the FO office believes they have a shot with this core with or without another trade. Just my gut feeling.

[MaNu4Tres]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykwp99h

Throw in the rights to Splitter.

And if necessary have an agreement under the table where Finley is bought out.

[Bruno]

I would be okay with trading Manu as long as the Spurs got real good quality in return, I love Manu and everything he's done but i'd rather have what's best for the team.

If Spurs do a trade (with or without Manu), it will be of course with the goal to improve the team.

I'm using the word "fear" because, as a fan, it would damn sucks to see Manu leaving Spurs, like it sucked with Bruce this summer.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Bowen trade is exactly why it wouldn't surprise me if Manu got traded..even though the circumstances were different, if you told me in 2007 that Bruce Bowen would be traded at any point, I wouldn't have believed you..yes, Bowen was much older, but I always thought that Bowen would retire as a Spur..

Now if Finley got traded and didn't return, THAT would surprise me..Pop would never allow it though..

[MaNu4Tres]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ykwp99h

Throw in the rights to Splitter.

And if necessary have an agreement under the table where Finley is bought out.

Spurs really need Marks back.

[DPG21920]

Not to mention that the less risky, presumably cheaper option is to keep Manu.

[5in10]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yf42fsg

helps us now and help builds for the future, although that would be a lot of people to incorporate before playoffs. Throw in the rights to splitter if you have to and if people want raja bell you can mix and match.

[HarlemHeat37]

I would prefer to keep Manu too if we can trade expirings/Splitter/1st round pick for something, or a package of Jefferson + assets for something..

There's obviously a chance that Manu may have to go if we want something though..I'm obviously hoping we can make a good trade without involving him, as I'm sure most Spurs fans are too..

[DPG21920]

I would absolutely be crushed if Manu is traded. It is a risky move because if it does not pay off, then you are going to have a lot of hard feelings.

[5in10]

I would absolutely be crushed if Manu is traded. It is a risky move because if it does not pay off, then you are going to have a lot of hard feelings.

Completly agree, it would be heart breaking, and I might even tear up.

[Bruno]

I seriously doubt Spurs have talked with Sixers about a trade.

There is a Sixers poster with inside sources on realgm and he hasn't mentioned Spurs as a team that has talked with Philly.

[DPG21920]

I find any trade like the Philly one hard to believe. It makes sense from our point-of-view, but not real life. You hardly ever see moves like that, especially with regards to the Spurs. I simply have no idea what this front office is thinking right now. There are plenty of things that make sense in theory, but I cannot even begin to act like I know what the Spurs are trying to do.


My gut tells me though that they will stand pat with the big 3.

[AFBlue]

BTW, am I The only one who fear that Manu is traded at the deadline?

I thought that keeping Manu was a no-brainer for Spurs but I'm now not that sure about that. Between the Stoudamire rumor, Manu talking a lot about his future FA status, Manu not playing well, it starts to make a lot of negative signs. I would hate to see Manu being traded but I'm starting to be ready at that idea.

I wrote about how it might make sense to trade Ginobili earlier in the thread and have re-posted below.


Let me explain...

Because the Spurs are over the cap and can only sign a player for up to the MLE, and because losing a player like Ginobili decreases the chances that the Spurs can legitimately contend, he'll have all the bargaining power in negotiations.

That means Manu could essentially hold the Spurs hostage this summer and the end result is likely to be unfavorable anyway you look at it...Spurs end up overpaying/signing for too many years or Spurs lose "contender" status because Manu walks.

With that in mind, I'd also consider trading Ginobili for Iguadola or either of Jamison/Butler.

The "fear" for me is that any trade including Ginobili will more than likely put the Spurs farther from championship contention in the short term. You don't just take away someone THAT integral to the offense and replace them, no matter how talented the player is the Spurs receive in return.

Still, if the Spurs don't feel like they can get over the top this year with their current roster and a trade comes along that makes sense in the long-term, I think it's entirely possible Manu is dealt.

Having said that, I'd still put long odds on something that big coming together before deadline day.

[HarlemHeat37]

I doubt the Philly trade happens too, I was just pointing out an example of a deal that would give us a good return..

I really have no idea what they will do, but I think there will be a trade..if there isn't, I will be extremely disappointed..I can't possibly imagine that the Spurs FO can believe that this current team is enough to even make the WCF..if they don't make a deal, I take it that the Spurs have given up on this season and will hope that Splitter and minor signings can make a difference for next year..there's also RJ on an expiring contract..there's also the whole lockout possibility, so that might change things as well..

I would understand that type of mentality and the mentality that they don't want to take on any further risks that can hurt the Spurs long-term since the RJ deal was risky enough(hasn't worked out like we wanted), but it would still disappoint me..