Messi=GOD

[Bynumite]

This wasn't a team award

No shit sherlock... i'm just saying the best player in the world can't go ghost in back to back games, the two most important games of the season vs elite teams and stat pad vs mediocre La Liga teams and call it a season.

[ElNono]

No shit sherlock... i'm just saying the best player in the world can't go ghost in back to back games, the two most important games of the season vs elite teams and stat pad vs mediocre La Liga teams and call it a season.

But #2 did too, and more than in just back to back games.... last I checked, Tristaldo didn't win the CL last season either (or the last few seasons for that matter). They had that fluke La Liga win which, as seen right now, was just a fluke. Portugal keeps being a second-class team in Europe.

Midget only has to be better than the competition. And he was.

[Venti Quattro]

Manita next year?

[Bynumite]

But #2 did too, and more than in just back to back games.... last I checked, Tristaldo didn't win the CL last season either (or the last few seasons for that matter). They had that fluke La Liga win which, as seen right now, was just a fluke. Portugal keeps being a second-class team in Europe.

Midget only has to be better than the competition. And he was.

When Ronaldo and Messi were in direct confrontation for last season's La Liga title at Camp Nou, Ronaldo had a clutch performance scoring the goal that gave Real the W and shut down Barca's title hopes. Meanwhile the midget was nowhere to be found, same vs Chelsea.

During Euro 2012, Ronaldo took Portugal to a stage of the competition (semis) Messi never could with Argentina, even when playing the Copa America. Which is basically a weaker 3 team competition between Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay.

[ElNono]

When Ronaldo and Messi were in direct confrontation for last season's La Liga title at Camp Nou, Ronaldo had a clutch performance scoring the goal that gave Real the W and shut down Barca's title hopes. Meanwhile the midget was nowhere to be found, same vs Chelsea.

And Messi started last year pushing Tristaldo's shit in, per the usual, in Copa del Rey... and don't tell me those don't matter, because there's not a single RMAO-Barca game that doesn't matter. Midget scored in both of those games. Ronaldo? He went hiding. :lol


During Euro 2012, Ronaldo took Portugal to a stage of the competition (semis) Messi never could with Argentina, even when playing the Copa America. Which is basically a weaker 3 team competition between Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay.

Copa America was in 2011... and if we're going to look back, Ronaldo was already fishing when Messi was playing against Germany in the 2010 WC...

And for all the fuzz, dude only score 5 goals all of 2012 for Portugal (14 games)

[ElNono]

On a serious note, this is a good read, BTW, Bynumite should check it out:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/dcunited/column-ballon-dor-should-have-gone-to-cristiano-ronaldo-not-worlds-best-player-leo-messi/2013/01/07/acb31032-5916-11e2-b8b2-0d18a64c8dfa_story.html

[Bynumite]

And Messi started last year pushing Tristaldo's shit in, per the usual, in Copa del Rey... and don't tell me those don't matter, because there's not a single RMAO-Barca game that doesn't matter. Midget scored in both of those games. Ronaldo? He went hiding

Ronaldo scored in Madrid's last 6 games vs Barca. He's definitely "hiding" :lmao


Copa America was in 2011... and if we're going to look back, Ronaldo was already fishing when Messi was playing against Germany in the 2010 WC...

I brought up the Copa America because Messi never reached the semis with Argentina, even in the weaker Copa America.

Are you seriously bringing up a quarterfinals game where Germany completely annihilated Argentina with 4 goals to 0? :lmao

[TDMVPDPOY]

shoudlve given it to torres, didnt he win EUCL, EURO2012...he only played in important matches only...lol

ronaldo clearly got robbed of that award.....got over the hurdle to win la liga, dunno about the galatica games h2h record for that year...but its better than padding goals for meaningless records with nothing to show for it...

[Venti Quattro]

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/37077_10151616369749745_1811320830_n.jpg

[DAF86]

I brought up the Copa America because Messi never reached the semis with Argentina, even in the weaker Copa America.

Are you seriously bringing up a quarterfinals game where Germany completely annihilated Argentina with 4 goals to 0? :lmao

If you're going to defend a stupid argument at least do your research. Messi has gotten to the final of Copa America with Argentina. He won a Gold medal too, something every self respecting sportmen should have.

[Venti Quattro]

Bynumite crying :cry INJUSTICIA :cry in this thread. :lmao :lmao :lmao

[DAF86]

I dropped dem truth bombs tbh. The reality is, the argument spurfan uses against Kobe, could just as easily be used against the midget.

Messi had a great individual season, lots of stat padding playing against scrub La Liga teams but the player you claim to be the best, choked when it mattered most vs Chelsea (CL semi) and Real (near the end of La Liga). Midget outshined in football's biggest stages.

There's a slight difference son. Messi clearly had the best stats of any individual, Kobe didn't even come close to that.

[Venti Quattro]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAB6b_OCIAAmiPC.jpg:large

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2012/08/Summer-Olympics-Weekend-Recap-Maroney-Faults-On-Vault-Serena-Crip-Walks-To-Gold-As-Usain-Bolts-To-The-Finish/_jcr_content/par/cn_contentwell/par-main/cn_blogpost/cn_float_container/cn_image.size.s-kayla-maroney.jpg

[sonic21]

well deserved this year. I was hoping Iniesta would win it though coz he deserved one in 2010.

[lefty]

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/37077_10151616369749745_1811320830_n.jpg

Lol Messi trying to imitate Diego the same way Kobe tries yo be like Mike

[romain.star]

Messi gets the FIFA Ballon d’Or in all logic since he’s probably the best human being to ever play this game.

However, there’s one player who never gets any credit despite being the incarnation of classiness, elegance and fair play. Last season, the guy has made 87,5% of his passes (2.947 out of 3.368), most of which were things of pure beauty. It led to 141 clear and direct goal opportunities. No one matches those numbers in any of the 5 big European Leagues. Andrea Pirlo is not even in the FIFA starting XI...

[lefty]

Messi gets the FIFA Ballon d’Or in all logic since he’s probably the best human being to ever play this game.


:lmao

[romain.star]

:lmao

I said probably which leaves room to discussion.

Anyway, glad to make you laugh

[ElNono]

Ronaldo scored in Madrid's last 6 games vs Barca. He's definitely "hiding" :lmao

But it doesn't translate to wins. During those 6 games, RMAO only won 2 games, lost other 2, and drew the last 2.

Midget is 11-6-5 against RMAO...


I brought up the Copa America because Messi never reached the semis with Argentina, even in the weaker Copa America.

Are you seriously bringing up a quarterfinals game where Germany completely annihilated Argentina with 4 goals to 0? :lmao

OMG, midget reached further in the competition = Messi GOD. :lol

This is what happens when the tables are turned on the haters that come up with arbitrary benchmarks...

Tristaldo didn't score 12 for Portugal last season?! OMG he sucks! crofl

[Brunodf]

well deserved this year. I was hoping Iniesta would win it though coz he deserved one in 2010.

Wut? Sneijder deserved it in 2010, lead his NT to WC finals, won the UCL and Serie A.

[lefty]

Wut? Sneijder deserved it in 2010, lead his NT to WC finals, won the UCL and Serie A.

this

[Jodelo]

:lmao

Agree.

[Jodelo]

:toast Bynumite! Some good posts i have to say.

[Bynumite]

But it doesn't translate to wins. During those 6 games, RMAO only won 2 games, lost other 2, and drew the last 2.

Midget is 11-6-5 against RMAO...

Scoring in the last 6 games vs Barca still is pretty good for someone that was allegedly "hiding".

Now that you mentioned "goals that don't translate to wins". Remember how Messi scored 91 in 2012 and had no CL or La Liga to show for it. Midget is the king of stat padding in meaningless games against scrub competition period.


OMG, midget reached further in the competition = Messi GOD. :lol

This is what happens when the tables are turned on the haters that come up with arbitrary benchmarks...

Tristaldo didn't score 12 for Portugal last season?! OMG he sucks! crofl

Still shit opposition though. People talk about the midget's WC aspirations and he can't even get it done in the Copa America, a 3 team competition.

[Bynumite]

There's a slight difference son. Messi clearly had the best stats of any individual, Kobe didn't even come close to that.

So? Kobe is currently putting up MVP type stats and will probably end up winning the scoring title but he won't win the MVP award. Obviously because the Lakers have a shit record, same for Barca's performance last season in top competitions.

[sonic21]

^lol scoring title

[ElNono]

Scoring in the last 6 games vs Barca still is pretty good for someone that was allegedly "hiding".

Now that you mentioned "goals that don't translate to wins". Remember how Messi scored 91 in 2012 and had no CL or La Liga to show for it. Midget is the king of stat padding in meaningless games against scrub competition period.

:lol midget has more hardware than Tristialdo ever will. Talk about wannabes. Midget also simply won more games in 2012 both with Argentina and Barca than Tristialdo did with RMAO and Portugal. Fact.


Still shit opposition though. People talk about the midget's WC aspirations and he can't even get it done in the Copa America, a 3 team competition.

midget already played a Copa America final... people just have short memory... Did Roflaldo ever get that far in the Euro? Didn't think so. :lol

lol made up benchmarks come back to bite you in the ass

[lefty]

But Messi = GOD !!!!!!!

[Relevancy]

:toast Bynumite! Some good posts i have to say.You seem like that kid who's waiting to get beat up on the street but nobody pays attention to because his not worth it.

[Bynumite]

midget has more hardware than Tristialdo ever will. Talk about wannabes. Midget also simply won more games in 2012 both with Argentina and Barca than Tristialdo did with RMAO and Portugal. Fact.

"Midget has more hardware"? How is that even relevant? So suddenly the ballon d'or became a career award and not something awarded every year :lol

But now that you mention hardware, last season Ronaldo did win the most important trophy in spanish football while the midget underperformed when it mattered most.


midget already played a Copa America final... people just have short memory... Did Roflaldo ever get that far in the Euro? Didn't think so. :lol

lol made up benchmarks come back to bite you in the ass

Comparing the level of competition in european football with american football :lol

When the midget finally faced a good team in Brazil during the Copa America final, just like in the WC against Germany, he got his shit pushed in big time by Brazil with 3 goals to 0 :lol

[ElNono]

http://i48.tinypic.com/mr3fhf.jpg

[Relevancy]

"Midget has more hardware"? How is that even relevant? So suddenly the ballon d'or became a career award and not something awarded every year :lol

But now that you mention hardware, last season Ronaldo did win the most important trophy in spanish football while the midget underperformed when it mattered most.



Comparing the level of competition in european football with american football :lol

When the midget finally faced a good team in Brazil during the Copa America final, just like in the WC against Germany, he got his shit pushed in big time by Brazil with 3 goals to 0 :lolContinue on with your arguing, but at the end of the you have to realize Messi won it and not Ronaldo, the coaches and the captains were the ones that voted, those are the one's knowledgeable enough to make the decision, not you or me.

[ElNono]

"Midget has more hardware"? How is that even relevant? So suddenly the ballon d'or became a career award and not something awarded every year :lol

But now that you mention hardware, last season Ronaldo did win the most important trophy in spanish football while the midget underperformed when it mattered most.

You keep saying the dude is a stat padder and his goals don't amount to wins. Well, they do.

If we're going to hand out the ballon d'or on who won the most important trophy in 2012, then Iniesta should've won it. Either way, it's not Tristaldo :lol


Comparing the level of competition in european football with american football :lol

When the midget finally faced a good team in Brazil during the Copa America final, just like in the WC against Germany, he got his shit pushed in big time by Brazil with 3 goals to 0 :lol

Most american players that matter play in Europe and also play in Copa America... heck, the 4x Ballon d'or winner plays in Copa America :lol

[ElNono]

http://i50.tinypic.com/ztjhjm.jpg

[Relevancy]

http://i50.tinypic.com/ztjhjm.jpgMessi hasn't aged at all.

[Bynumite]

You keep saying the dude is a stat padder and his goals don't amount to wins. Well, they do.

Just because you keep repeating that, doesn't make it true. You're the one that mentioned wins, any stacked team can easily trample the Osasunas and Espanyols of the world for easy W's

I talked about the correlation between goals and major trophies, as opposed to stat padding in meaningless games.


Most american players that matter play in Europe and also play in Copa America... heck, the 4x Ballon d'or winner plays in Copa America

So that's why Argentina's road to the Copa America final was a war against the likes of Peru, USA etc. because american teams are so unbelievably stacked :lol

[lefty]

:lol Messi
:lol Cant even dribble a TOSB player who is not even a defender


http://dc370.4shared.com/img/Kh5cRho3/s7/messi_vs_raul.gif

[it's me]

:lol Messi
:lol COULDN'T even dribble a TOSB player who is not even a defender


http://dc370.4shared.com/img/Kh5cRho3/s7/messi_vs_raul.gif

Fixed.... lol midget haters have to resort to thousand years old gifs

[lefty]

:lol at "fixed"

[it's me]

Cristina doesn't even need a TOSB defender...he takes care of it himself..... :lmao


http://cadfael.tv/image/src/1354400642347.gif

[it's me]

:lol at "fixed"

:lmao true

[ElNono]

Just because you keep repeating that, doesn't make it true. You're the one that mentioned wins, any stacked team can easily trample the Osasunas and Espanyols of the world for easy W's

I talked about the correlation between goals and major trophies, as opposed to stat padding in meaningless games.

But if La Liga is shit, then it's shit for both midget and Tristiano. You can't claim only missi stat pads. :lol

In the same league agains the same rivals, messi scores more, assists more and wins more.


So that's why Argentina's road to the Copa America final was a war against the likes of Peru, USA etc. because american teams are so unbelievably stacked :lol

American teams do fairly good. Don't forget Europe only has one more World Cup win than America.

And who's unbelievable stacked in Europe outside of Spain? :lol

[it's me]

""I'm a troll and just can't acknowledge greatness"""

let me help you...

Barcelona

La Liga: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12; Runner-up 2010–11
Supercopa de España: 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011; Runner-up 2012
UEFA Champions League: 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011; Runner-up 2006
FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011

Argentina

Olympic Gold Medal: 2008
FIFA U-20 World Cup: 2005

Runner-up:

Copa America: 2007

Third place:

U20 South American Youth Championship: 2005

Individual

FIFA Ballon d'Or (3): 2010, 2011, 2012. Created in 2010.
Ballon d'Or (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2009.
FIFA World Player of the Year (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2009.
World Soccer Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008.
World Soccer Player of the Year (3): 2009, 2011, 2012.
Onze d'Or (3): 2009, 2011, 2012. No winner in 2010.
IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer (2): 2011, 2012.[273]
IFFHS World's best Top Division Goal Scorer (1): 2012.[274]
Goal.com Player of the Year (2): 2009, 2011.
El País King of European Soccer (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.[275]
ESPY Best International Athlete (1): 2012.
European Golden Shoe (2): 2010, 2012.
UEFA Best Player in Europe Award (1): 2011. Created in 2011.
UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2010.
UEFA Team of the Year (4): 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011.
UEFA Champions League Top Goalscorer (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.
UEFA Champions League Forward of the Year (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2010.
UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match (1): 2011.
FIFA U-20 World Cup Player of the Tournament (1): 2005.
FIFA U-20 World Cup Top Goalscorer (1): 2005.
FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball (2): 2009, 2011.
FIFA FIFPro World XI (6): 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.
FIFPro World Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008.
ESM Team of the Year (6): 2005–06, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2011–12.
Pichichi Trophy (2): 2010, 2012.
Copa del Rey Top Goalscorer (1): 2010–2011.
La Liga Player of the Year (3): 2009, 2010, 2011.
La Liga Foreign Player of the Year (3): 2007, 2009, 2010. Ceased to exist in 2010.
La Liga Ibero-American Player of the Year (5): 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.
LFP Best Player (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.
LFP Best Forward (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.
Marca Leyenda (1): 2009.
Bravo Award (1): 2007.
Copa América Young Player of the Tournament (1): 2007.
European Golden Boy (1): 2005.
Olimpia de Oro (1): 2011.
Olimpia de Plata (7): 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.[276]

Records

World

Most Ballon d'Or awards: 4
Guinness World Records title for the most goals in a year: 91 goals.
Most international goals in a year (club and national team): 25 goals (shared with Vivian Woodward)
Most goals scored in FIFA Club World Cup: 4 goals (held jointly with Denilson and Mohamed Aboutrika)

Europe

Most goals scored in a season (club): 73 goals
Most goals scored in a year (club): 79 goals
Most goals scored in a European Cup season: 14 goals (held jointly with José Altafini)
Most European Cup top scorer awards: 4 (shared with Gerd Müller)
Highest scorer in a European Cup game: 5 goals (held jointly with ten other players)

Argentina

Most goals scored in a year (national team): 12 goals (shared with Batistuta)

Spain

Most goals scored in La Liga in a season: 50 goals
Most La Liga hat-tricks in a season: 8 hat-tricks
Most goals scored in the Supercopa de España: 10 goals
Most consecutive La Liga matches scored in: 10 matches (shared with Ronaldo and Mariano Martín)

Barcelona

Top scorer in official competitions: 289 goals
Top scorer in La Liga: 196 goals
Top scorer in UEFA Champions League: 56 goals
Top scorer in European competitions: 57 goals
Top scorer in international competitions: 61 goals
Most all competitions hat-tricks overall: 21 goals
Most La Liga hat-tricks overall: 15 goals

[Bynumite]

But if La Liga is shit, then it's shit for both midget and Tristiano. You can't claim only missi stat pads.

In the same league agains the same rivals, messi scores more, assists more and wins more.

Not really discussing the quality of the league. More the fact that Ronaldo still managed to put up great numbers, win the biggest trophy in spanish football and clinched said trophy with a good performance vs Barca and Messi... that's my point.

Like i said, correlation between major trophies and goals.


American teams do fairly good. Don't forget Europe only has one more World Cup win than America.

And who's unbelievable stacked in Europe outside of Spain?

A few euro teams have great world class individual stars. Which doesn't mean they're gonna gel and make a deep competition run... that's another story.

[Bynumite]

let me help you...

Thanks wikipedia, appreciate the wall of text but i'm discussing last season. Like i said, the ballon d'or is not a career prize.

[sonic21]

true story : being the Portugal captain, ronaldo should have voted for the ballon d'or, he can't vote for himself. So to have an extra vote he let bruno alves vote instead of him.

[ElNono]

true story : being the Portugal captain, ronaldo should have voted for the ballon d'or, he can't vote for himself. So to have an extra vote he let bruno alves vote instead of him.

true story: Casillas voted for Ramos over Tristaldo :lol

[sonic21]

and the algerian captain voted for benzema. Maybe they're all homers, not just lefty

[Brunodf]

People are still arguing about this? Messi won, didn't deserve but won, just accept it.

[Relevancy]

People are still arguing about this? Messi won, didn't deserve but won, just accept it.Look guys, according to a guy named Brunodf Messi did not deserve the award:lol

[Venti Quattro]

People are still arguing about this? Messi won, didn't deserve but won, just accept it.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAB6b_OCIAAmiPC.jpg:large

[TDMVPDPOY]

messi the most overrated hack...seems like fifa jews and nike are doing whatever to make him look like jordan with consecutive straight player of the year awards to sell the game...

[ALVAREZ6]

messi the most overrated hack...seems like fifa jews and nike are doing whatever to make him look like jordan with consecutive straight player of the year awards to sell the game...
Nike doesn't even sponsor Messi, that would be Adidas. Nike = Trisiano :cry





LOL you clowns can't be serious with Ronaldo deserving the award. In my opinion, if Real won the Champions League, Ronaldo would have won, and rightfully so. But on teams so stacked like Barca and Real, you can't just say, "well, whoever wins 1 trophy, as long as it's La Liga or UCL, that player deserves it". The chances for Barca or Madrid to win La Liga from the beginning of the season are about 50/50, both teams are uber stacked, both are capable of handling the rest of the league. Maybe you can say that if both teams are inspired and healthy, Barca has a 55% shot at winning La Liga and Madrid a 45% shot. Overcoming that 5% and winning isn't that big of a deal, especially when tons of world class players contributed.

If the star player's team wins 2 major trophies, such as the UCL and domestic league, that's a different story. Sure, Ronaldo's team won a more important trophy than Messi's, but Messi's insane consistency for club and country over the past year outweighs the difference in importance of La Liga and Copa del Rey. Messi had an insane year, broke a record that had been around forever. He also always has more assists than Ronaldo, a fact. On top of all of this, football/soccer isn't entirely a stats sport. If any unbiased soccer fan watches both Messi and Ronaldo play, they will undoubtedly tell you Messi impacts the game more than Ronaldo.


If you believe Messi unfairly won in a previous year, fine. But you can't neglect him this year, he had an insane season that will probably not be replicated again/in a long time (by any player), and if so, no more than anywhere from 1-5 times in the next 100 years. It's the rarity that makes this season so great, it's not merely an exchange with 2 seasons ago when Ronaldo won the Spanish Cup and Messi won La Liga (of course they also won the UCL that year), while both having similar amount of goals. Ronaldo has never done something like this, nor has anyone in several decades.

[ALVAREZ6]

You guys are basically saying that while Messi and Ronaldo are at their respective clubs and assuming neither wins the Champions League that particular year, whoever wins La Liga should be defacto Ballon D'Or winner. That's basically what it all boils down to.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Ronaldo is awful. He's finished.

[lefty]

People are still arguing about this? Messi won, didn't deserve but won, just accept it.

[lefty]

and the algerian captain voted for benzema. Maybe they're all homers, not just lefty
Yeah I saw that :lmao

Bougherra is such a dumbfuck
Its only a matter of time before Vahid finds someone better and kicks that fatass out of the team

[ALVAREZ6]

Soccer, more so than most sports, is heavily dependent on the entire team (11 players) and its chemistry. You don't typically win a major domestic title or European title without having a very solid team, ground up. You need a very good keeper, very strong, consistent defenders, many skilled attacking players, and a deep bench. Championships are not individual accomplishments, they are team accomplishments. Madrid were champs of Spain, fair and square, just like Chelsea were champs of Europe. Championships are obviously the metric we have to establish the best team of whichever competition it is.

The Ballon D'Or is an individual award. Putting too much weight on any 1 team championship to decide this award is inherently flawed. That's why we consider many factors in deciding the player of the year. In 2012, it was Lionel Messi, hands down.


Did Madrid have greater La Liga success over Barcelona mainly due to Ronaldo, or was it more so the combination of David Villa being out all year, many injuries to the back four and other key players, and Pep Guardiola growing bored of his dominance and thus fucking with the lineup, trying 3-4-3 formations, testing players like Cuenca and Tell:lol, etc? Madrid had a great year in conjunction with the above factors and Barca possibly not being as inspired as in years past, having already won everything many times.


Madrid was better than Barca, Messi was better than Ronaldo.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Why are people still feeding the trolls? Its become painfully obvious that Bynumite knows absolutely nothing about football and is just trolling the shit out of you. Let the jackasses whine about Messi winning. Ain't going to change a thing. He won it, he deserved it and that's plain for anybody to see.

[DAF86]

Messi deserved every single ballon d'or he has won, this award isn't about who won the most important trophies, it's about who performed better individually. And Messi has performed better than any individual in each of the past 4 years. Just deal with it and stop being a hater and/or an uneducated poster.

I have spoken.

[romain.star]

Yeah I saw that :lmao

Bougherra is such a dumbfuck
Its only a matter of time before Vahid finds someone better and kicks that fatass out of the team

Good luck with that

[lefty]

Good luck with that

Oh he will find someone better; dont worry

[MB20]

This is very simple to me.

If I have to build a team from scratch today, which player would I pick first (all of them available)? That´s the best player on the world and award winner.

[lefty]

I would pick Iniesta TBH

[romain.star]

Oh he will find someone better; dont worry

I'm not worried my friend but this is Algeria we're talking about so once again... good luck with that

[romain.star]

This is very simple to me.

If I have to build a team from scratch today, which player would I pick first (all of them available)? That´s the best player on the world and award winner.

Regardless of the age, I’ll build my team around Iniesta, Xavi or Pirlo.
IMO, Messi is the best player in the world but he does not make the others much better (same logic applies to Ronaldo)

[Brunodf]

I would pick Iniesta TBH

Xavi is the centerpiece tbh

[lefty]

I'm not worried my friend but this is Algeria we're talking about so once again... good luck with that

And good luck winning another WC without an Algerian playmaker



Gooooooooooooooooooood luck

Gourcuff :lmao

The "next Zidane" :lmao

White French players :lmao

[Jodelo]

Regardless of the age, I’ll build my team around Iniesta, Xavi or Pirlo.
IMO, Messi is the best player in the world but he does not make the others much better (same logic applies to Ronaldo)


Xavi is the centerpiece tbh

This!

I take Xavi.

[resistanze]

If Xavi couldn't win the award over Messi in 2010 no way in hell they're giving it to someone like Iniesta this time around.

[DAF86]

I bet you guys would also pick Pippen over Jordan on the NBA of the 90's.

[MB20]

I bet you guys would also pick Pippen over Jordan on the NBA of the 90's.

...Or one of Gerson-Tostao-Rivelino-Jairzinho over Pele in the 70´s.

[lefty]

Damn Tostao was good

[Brunodf]

I bet you guys would also pick Pippen over Jordan on the NBA of the 90's.

Fail. Neither is a playmaker or makes everybody else much better.

[DAF86]

Fail. Neither is a playmaker or makes everybody else much better.

So you would take John Stockton over Jordan.

P/S: lol at not being a playmaker. Nobody had more assists than Messi in the last 4 years. But go ahead and talk out of your ass. :lol

[Brunodf]

So you would take John Stockton over Jordan.

P/S: lol at not being a playmaker. Nobody had more assists than Messi in the last 4 years. But go ahead and talk out of your ass. :lol

Wut? wtf are u smoking? I said that neither Pippen or Jordan are playmakers. Stop being so butthurt. Iverson vs Kidd would be a better comparison

[DAF86]

Wut? wtf are u smoking? I said that neither Pippen or Jordan are playmakers. Stop being so butthurt. Iverson vs Kidd would be a better comparison

In what World is AI comparable to Messi? :lol

[Brunodf]

In what World is AI comparable to Messi? :lol

Can be Kobe vs Kidd if u want, whatever.

[DAF86]

Can be Kobe vs Kidd if u want, whatever.

Ok, so you would take Kidd over Kobe. :lol

Still, I would like to know when has Kobe lead an assists table.

[Brunodf]

Ok, so you would take Kidd over Kobe. :lol

Still, I would like to know when has Kobe lead an assists table.

To built a team around, of course i would take Kidd over Kobe.

[DAF86]

Thanks for making clear that your sports related opinions aren't very good. :tu

[Brunodf]

:lmao Build a team around Kobe> build a team around Kidd:lol

[DAF86]

Team around Kobe= 2 championships
Team around Kidd= 0 championships

If I wouldn't have seen you posting around in other forums all serious and shit I would be pretty damn sure you're trolling.

[Brunodf]

Team around Kobe= 2 championships
Team around Kidd= 0 championships

If I wouldn't have seen you posting around in other forums all serious and shit I would be pretty damn sure you're trolling.

:lolNow i get it, you are really dumb. We are not talking about who has/had a better career, we are talking about who would be better to build a team around, Kidd never had half of the supporting cast that Kobe had. :donkey:lmao

I would never rank Kidd above Kobe. Or Xavi above Messi :bang

[romain.star]

And good luck winning another WC without an Algerian playmaker



Gooooooooooooooooooood luck

Gourcuff :lmao

The "next Zidane" :lmao

White French players :lmao

Do you have a problem with the notion of non-white French people?

[lefty]

Do you have a problem with the notion of non-white French people?

You seem to have one

[DAF86]

:lolNow i get it, you are really dumb. We are not talking about who has/had a better career, we are talking about who would be better to build a team around, Kidd never had half of the supporting cast that Kobe had. :donkey:lmao

I would never rank Kidd above Kobe. Or Xavi above Messi :bang

Ok so you would never rank Kidd over Kobe or Xavi over Messi but if you had to choose a player to start a team from scratch you would pick Kidd over Kobe and Xavi over Messi and build your teams around those guys right?

[resistanze]

lol I love Xavi but that's insane, especially when if you say regardless of age. Messi is still 25 and scored almost 100 goals and is the most unstoppable player on the planet. And he's on roids.

Easy decision.

[Brunodf]

Ok so you would never rank Kidd over Kobe or Xavi over Messi but if you had to choose a player to start a team from scratch you would pick Kidd over Kobe and Xavi over Messi and build your teams around those guys right?

Yeah, it's just who is the right player for that job, Xavi/Kidd makes everybody else much better, Messi/Kobe need a great team around them... Give a D-League team to Kidd and he will make some players look like all stars and maybe make the playoffs, give a D-League team to Kobe and they will look like a D-League team with a great player.

[resistanze]

Yeah, it's just who is the right player for that job, Xavi/Kidd makes everybody else much better, Messi/Kobe need a great team around them... Give a D-League team to Kidd and he will make some players look like all stars and maybe make the playoffs, give a D-League team to Kobe and they will look like a D-League team with a great player.

Great take, 10/10, will read again.

[ALVAREZ6]

I think Brunodf is making sense right now, didn't read posts on previous pages if there are any. He's saying Messi>Xavi which is true, but he'd rather build a team around Xavi. Nothing wrong with that tbh, he's entitled to that opinion as there is logic there. However, no one is entitled to the opinion that Ronaldo got snubbed and he deserved the Ballon. That's just stupid.

[Venti Quattro]

And he's on roids.

Easy decision.

Please wait for your turn. Antonella will be up all over your post in a moment...

[DAF86]

Yeah, it's just who is the right player for that job, Xavi/Kidd makes everybody else much better, Messi/Kobe need a great team around them... Give a D-League team to Kidd and he will make some players look like all stars and maybe make the playoffs, give a D-League team to Kobe and they will look like a D-League team with a great player.

Yeah, I'm really dumb. How can I not get an argument that is so clear and makes so much sense.

[Bynumite]

The ballon d'or is a joke and nothing more than a popularity contest since the midget years. When Kaka won the award in 2007, he didn't have the best numbers. But Kaka ended up winning the award, which is fine in my opinion because of the positive impact he had on that Milan team, the hardware he won that year and the excellent champions league campaign he had, 2 goals in the semi-final against United and that year's ballon d'or runner up Ronaldo.

Some people just have no business voting for this award, their criteria is shady as fuck and they will continue to bend it to fit whatever Messi wins or scores during a particular season.

Besides, there's already an award for what Messi did last season, it's called the golden boot. The ballon d'or should not be treated like a scoring title.

Instead, voters should try to find a balance between stats and trophies, not who scored a handful of goals in meaningless games against the league's bottom feeders, while being surrounded by a stacked team.

[Relevancy]

The ballon d'or is a joke and nothing more than a popularity contest since the midget years. When Kaka won the award in 2007, he didn't have the best numbers. But Kaka ended up winning the award, which is fine in my opinion because of the positive impact he had on that Milan team, the hardware he won that year and the excellent champions league campaign he had, 2 goals in the semi-final against United and that year's ballon d'or runner up Ronaldo.

Some people just have no business voting for this award, their criteria is shady as fuck and they will continue to bend it to fit whatever Messi wins or scores during a particular season.

Besides, there's already an award for what Messi did last season, it's called the golden boot. The ballon d'or should not be treated like a scoring title.

Instead, voters should try to find a balance between stats and trophies, not who scored a handful of goals in meaningless games against the league's bottom feeders, while being surrounded by a stacked team.I think your not rightfully treating Messi like he should be, it might be because I always see you in every Barcelona related-thread and you always want to downplay whatever he achieves, so decide what you want to be- a troll or a reasonable poster, you have different internet personas and I find that annoying, on this post you sounded reasonable enough to have a discussion with but in some you sound the opposite, so please, decide what you want to be.

[Venti Quattro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTIpvemOID0

[ALVAREZ6]

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Best commercials Messi has ever done.

[DAF86]

10th straight game scoring, new Barca record per the usual, par, etc.

[Relevancy]

He got that in a loss, not nearly as impressive, thb

[DAF86]

They gotta lose sometime, imho.

[Libri]

Messi drinking Coca Cola. Pepsi is not going to be happy about this. :lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5vY274jao4&feature=player_embedded

[Venti Quattro]

Messi for Esquire, March 2013

http://www.swide.com/binaries/content/gallery/swide2/article-inside/2013/02/07/esquire-magazine-football-and-fashion-with-leo-messi-shot-by-domenico-dolce/leo-messi-esquire-dolce-gabbana-inside-3.jpg

http://www.swide.com/binaries/content/gallery/swide2/article-inside/2013/02/07/esquire-magazine-football-and-fashion-with-leo-messi-shot-by-domenico-dolce/leo-messi-esquire-dolce-gabbana-inside-2.jpg

http://www.swide.com/binaries/content/gallery/swide2/article-inside/2013/02/07/esquire-magazine-football-and-fashion-with-leo-messi-shot-by-domenico-dolce/leo-messi-esquire-dolce-gabbana-inside-1.jpg

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[lefty]

The fuck

He has hobbit feet

Too much HGH imo

[Libri]

Esquire must be advertising for little people.

[TDMVPDPOY]

someone PS him with a turban on his head, or that kobe scarfe on his head...fck this clown

[ALVAREZ6]

The fuck

He has hobbit feet

Too much HGH imo
:lol

he takes some retarded pics in retarded clothes that's for sure

[Relevancy]

update because I think Messi will have an outstanding game today against Granada, probably score 5 goals:p:

[lefty]

update because I think Messi will have an outstanding game today against Granada, probably score 5 goals:p:
More IMO

[DAF86]

‘Inmessionante’: Lionel Messi Added To Spanish Dictionary


In today’s ‘Just how far can we slide our collective tongues up Lionel Messi’s back passage’ news, the Barcelona demigod’s name has now been included in the Spanish Dictionary, with ’inmessionante’ (adj.) defined as…

1.) The perfect way to play football, an unlimited ability to self-improve.

2.) Describes the best player of all time

E.g, “Lionel Messi is really quite inmessionante when it comes down to it.”


http://estaticos04.marca.com/imagenes/2013/02/16/futbol/equipos/barcelona/1361020202_extras_noticia_foton_7_1.jpg

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/barcelona/156349/inmessionante-lionel-messi-added-to-spanish-dictionary.html

It would be something like "Amessing" :lol

[Relevancy]

I was somewhat right, but Messi still fell short:p:

[lefty]

GOD my ass :lmao


Scores 4 goals/game only vs LOL Liga shitty teams :lmao


Nowhere to be seen vs Milan

Or Chelsea :lmao


:rollin

[Relevancy]

You know what Lefty, your right. I'm very positive that he won't show up for 2nd game, he'll score none.

[lefty]

You know what Lefty, your right. I'm very positive that he won't show up for 2nd game, he'll score none.
I think he will score on a penalty

I dont know why but I have the feeling its gonna happen

[Bynumite]

Where is your God now? Nothing to see here tbh, just the midget going MIA in big games vs elite competition per par. Still gonna win another ballon d'or next year though.

[Relevancy]

Where is your God now? Nothing to see here tbh, just the midget going MIA in big games vs elite competition per par. Still gonna win another ballon d'or next year though.As it stands right now Ronaldo has a greater chance on winning it than Messi, deservedly so.

[ElNono]

lol haters/Madrid butthurt fans coming out of the woodwork per par

[Bynumite]

In 9 games vs italian teams, Messi scored 3 goals and all from penalty... midget choker :lmao

In the 2nd leg, barcuefa and the midget will have their penalty per par, like lefty said.

[TDMVPDPOY]

clown cant win without xavi and ineasta

so what happens when he has them both and still cant win?

[ALVAREZ6]

clown cant win without xavi and ineasta

so what happens when he has them both and still cant win?
good point tbh :tu


great players never lose games. never.

[Bynumite]

lol haters/Madrid butthurt fans coming out of the woodwork per par

Still think it's just hate? :lol Are you gonna act like Ronaldo isn't the superior player at the moment?

Crucial games where Messi had unacceptable performances for a 4x ballon d'or winner in the span of 2 seasons:

vs Real, game that sealed the La Liga title for Madrid
vs Chelsea, Barca eliminated form the CL
vs AC Milan, 2-0 loss at San Siro
vs Real, both legs of the Copa del Rey

That's 5 games, how many more big games vs elite competition do you need to watch to realize that the midget is living off his reputation and the multiple goals he scores against terrible La Liga teams? Then the retards voting for the ballon d'or winner, give him the award like it's just a scoring title a la golden boot :lol

Meanwhile, Ronaldo is currently on a streak of 6 games in a row always scoring vs Barca at Camp Nou. When you've said before that Ronaldo scoring vs Barca was an anomaly, especially at Camp Nou :lol

BTW, Elnono wrong about det dude Ronaldo :lol

[ElNono]

Still think it's just hate? :lol Are you gonna act like Ronaldo isn't the superior player at the moment?

Crucial games where Messi had unacceptable performances for a 4x ballon d'or winner in the span of 2 seasons:

vs Real, game that sealed the La Liga title for Madrid
vs Chelsea, Barca eliminated form the CL
vs AC Milan, 2-0 loss at San Siro
vs Real, both legs of the Copa del Rey

That's 5 games, how many more big games vs elite competition do you need to watch to realize that the midget is living off his reputation and the multiple goals he scores against terrible La Liga teams? Then the retards voting for the ballon d'or winner, give him the award like it's just a scoring title a la golden boot :lol

Meanwhile, Ronaldo is currently on a streak of 6 games in a row always scoring vs Barca at Camp Nou. When you've said before that Ronaldo scoring vs Barca was an anomaly, especially at Camp Nou :lol

BTW, Elnono wrong about det dude Ronaldo :lol

What did Ronaldo win in that span? One La Liga? :lol

Missi hasn't been playing well lately, yet he's the sole reason Barça has the lead they do in La Liga and will win it this season... tbh, the entire team just isnt playing well...

:lol and don't hate on me, I don't vote for the ballon d'or...

[Bynumite]

What did Ronaldo win in that span? One La Liga?

Yep, Real won the last La Liga, now tell me what Barca won last season that it was so great? :lol


Missi hasn't been playing well lately, yet he's the sole reason Barça has the lead they do in La Liga and will win it this season... tbh, the entire team just isnt playing well...

You midget dick riders crack me up :lmao

By "lately" you mean since last season and against the best euro clubs, where you expect a player with the midget's individual accolades to not underperform the way he did multiple times :lol

Midget dick rider discrediting the midget's stacked supporting cast per par :lmao

If the midget is the "sole reason" Barca will win La Liga this season and Xavi, Iniesta and all the other "scrubs" around the midget seem to be so irrelevant to Barca's success, what's stopping the midget from winning a title with Argentina? :lol

Just a guess but maybe it's the lack of Xavi, Iniesta and all the other Barca "scrubs" when the midget plays for Argentina :lol You're simply not making any sense right now.

[ElNono]

Yep, Real won the last La Liga, now tell me what Barca won last season that it was so great? :lol

:lol they're winning La Liga THIS season. So, by your own measure, he's currently going to pull off THIS season what the alleged better player pulled off last season :lol


You midget dick riders crack me up :lmao

By "lately" you mean since last season and against the best euro clubs, where you expect a player with the midget's individual accolades to not underperform the way he did multiple times :lol

Midget dick rider discrediting the midget's stacked supporting cast per par :lmao

If the midget is the "sole reason" Barca will win La Liga this season and Xavi, Iniesta and all the other "scrubs" around the midget seem to be so irrelevant to Barca's success, what's stopping the midget from winning a title with Argentina? :lol

Just a guess but maybe it's the lack of Xavi, Iniesta and all the other Barca "scrubs" when the midget plays for Argentina :lol You're simply not making any sense right now.

Nobody is discrediting anybody, they're simply not playing as well as a few years ago. It is, after all, pretty much the same supporting cast.

lol @ RMAOfan saying that when Barça was winning it was Xavi and Iniesta, when they're not, it's Missi :lol

And Missi is doing great with Argentina. IIRC, they haven't lost a game in like a year or two. The titles will eventually come if they keep playing like that.

BTW, how's Ronaldo doing with Portugal? How many titles did he get there? crofl

[Bynumite]

they're winning La Liga THIS season. So, by your own measure, he's currently going to pull off THIS season what the alleged better player pulled off last season

Still doesn't change the fact that the best player in the world chokes in big games, costs his team the titles relevant to the football elite but that doesn't seem to cost him individual accolades.


Nobody is discrediting anybody, they're simply not playing as well as a few years ago. It is, after all, pretty much the same supporting cast.

lol @ RMAOfan saying that when Barça was winning it was Xavi and Iniesta, when they're not, it's Missi

And Missi is doing great with Argentina. IIRC, they haven't lost a game in like a year or two. The titles will eventually come if they keep playing like that.

BTW, how's Ronaldo doing with Portugal? How many titles did he get there? crofl

You're the one that said the midget is the "sole reason" Barca will win La Liga this season, apparently the midget can carry a team to a title all by himself in your opinion, i never said that about Ronaldo.

So i ask again, what stopped the midget from winning a WC with Argentina? Since in your opinion he has the power to carry teams to titles.

[ElNono]

Still doesn't change the fact that the best player in the world chokes in big games, costs his team the titles relevant to the football elite but that doesn't seem to cost him individual accolades.

Not sure if you're talking about Ronaldo or Missi here, but in Ronaldo's case that's certainly been the case for his entire career. For Missi, only lately.


You're the one that said the midget is the "sole reason" Barca will win La Liga this season, apparently the midget can carry a team to a title all by himself in your opinion, i never said that about Ronaldo.

I'm saying he's the sole reason they're winning La Liga this season because he's scoring every crucial goal out there that turn draws or losses into wins. If you're been watching La Liga this season, this isn't really arguable.


So i ask again, what stopped the midget from winning a WC with Argentina? Since in your opinion he has the power to carry teams to titles.

:lol I said he's the sole reason Barça is winning La Liga this season. Quote where I said anything about carrying Argentina to anything? Oh, wait, I didn't.

[Relevancy]

Messi has been great with Argentina, as soon as Sabella took over the reigns the team has been great, Messi especially, so Bynumite can't really use that argument anymore, well he can use it if Messi doesn't play well this upcoming WC:lol I don't think they can overcome the Germans or Spain, but they will be there at the end, make no mistake about it. But if Messi plays like he has played these past two games, Argentina is getting kicked out in the first round.

Messi is clearly the best player, when you see both Ronaldo and Messi play every game you'll quickly realize who's the best, well at least to those who aren't bias. Unfortunately he has performed way below his standards these past two games, they were the most important matches also.. not really good. But I'm confident he'll bounce back when they play Milan again, if he doesn't, well than we can worry.

[Bynumite]

Not sure if you're talking about Ronaldo or Missi here, but in Ronaldo's case that's certainly been the case for his entire career. For Missi, only lately.

Ronaldo simply helped Real win the Copa del Rey and La Liga when he scored in big games vs Barca to seal those titles, meanwhile the midget was always a non-factor in those games.

Let's not forget the champions league and premier league titles Ronaldo helped United win.

Did i mention he always scored in the last 6 games at Barca's home? Choking doesn't get any worse than that tbh :lol

"Ronaldo choking in big games throughout his entire career" :lol You're delusional as fuck and just because you keep repeating that, doesn't make it true :lol


I'm saying he's the sole reason they're winning La Liga this season because he's scoring every crucial goal out there that turn draws or losses into wins. If you're been watching La Liga this season, this isn't really arguable.

I said he's the sole reason Barça is winning La Liga this season. Quote where I said anything about carrying Argentina to anything? Oh, wait, I didn't.

You have some serious comprehension issues, i didn't say you said anything about Argentina. But you did say Messi is the "sole reason" Barca is winning La Liga this season, which implies the midget can single-handedly carry teams to titles regardless of the quality of his supporting cast. So i simply applied your own logic to the argie team Messi plays in, why isn't the midget winning any titles with Argentina if the players around Messi are irrelevant since he can get a trophy all by himself like you said?

It's a valid question tbh that you keep trying to spin and fail.

[ElNono]

Ronaldo simply helped Real win the Copa del Rey and La Liga when he scored in big games vs Barca to seal those titles, meanwhile the midget was always a non-factor in those games.

Let's not forget the champions league and premier league titles Ronaldo helped United win.

Did i mention he always scored in the last 6 games at Barca's home? Choking doesn't get any worse than that tbh :lol

"Ronaldo choking in big games throughout his entire career" :lol You're delusional as fuck and just because you keep repeating that, doesn't make it true :lol

If you're going to look at the past, Missi simply won much more, and scored much more in crucial games. He scored on both of his CL finals (one that included Ronaldo as the scoreless loser). So that's really an argument you can't win.

You really need to stick to his current slump, tbh.


You have some serious comprehension issues, i didn't say you said anything about Argentina. But you did say Messi is the "sole reason" Barca is winning La Liga this season, which implies the midget can single-handedly carry teams to titles regardless of the quality of his supporting cast. So i simply applied your own logic to the argie team Messi plays in, why isn't the midget winning any titles with Argentina if the players around Messi are irrelevant since he can get a trophy all by himself like you said?

You're the one that jumped to conclusions. As I've stated, he is the sole reason Barça is winning La Liga this season thanks to his timely goals every weekend that end up being game-winners (don't have to look past last weekend to see that).

Dude scored 38 goals for Barça this season, the next Barça guy with most goals is Villa with 7. Not sure how you want to spin that one.

If anything, I'm applying the same logic you're applying to Ronaldo by stating he won La Liga for RMAO last season.


It's a valid question tbh that you keep trying to spin and fail.

I never made the claim that Missi can carry Argentina on his own, not sure why you want me to answer a claim I never made. He should clearly be the best player in the Argentina NT, and he has been since Sabella has been the coach.

[TDMVPDPOY]

damn was xavi and iniesta playin last night? lol cant even win with the 2 tosb

[Bynumite]

If you're going to look at the past, Missi simply won much more, and scored much more in crucial games. He scored on both of his CL finals (one that included Ronaldo as the scoreless loser). So that's really an argument you can't win.

I wasn't comparing hardware, i was simply disagreeing with what you said, that Ronaldo keeps choking in big games throughtout his career, which is simply not true.


You really need to stick his current slump, tbh.

Current slump :lol Barcafan makes it seem like Messi choked just in the last 2 games vs Real. When in reality his underperformances started late last season vs Real and Chelsea if not earlier and continued throughtout this season when Barca played against other elite euro clubs :lol Sorry but his scoring records vs scrubs La Liga teams can't erase those choke jobs.


If anything, I'm applying the same logic you're applying to Ronaldo by stating he won La Liga for RMAO last season.

It's a fact, Ronaldo won La Liga last season but he wasn't the sole reason for Real's success in that competition, like you're saying about Messi.


You're the one that jumped to conclusions. As I've stated, he is the sole reason Barça is winning La Liga this season thanks to his timely goals every weekend that end up being game-winners (don't have to look past last weekend to see that).

Dude scored 38 goals for Barça this season, the next Barça guy with most goals is Villa with 7. Not sure how you want to spin that one.

I never made the claim that Missi can carry Argentina on his own, not sure why you want me to answer a claim I never made. He should clearly be the best player in the Argentina NT, and he has been since Sabella has been the coach.

You said it, Messi is light years ahead of his Barca teammates in the goal scoring department. Why does he fail to translate that dominance into national team football? And i'm talking about dominating final stages of national team competitions, not friendly matches or qualification stages. The only reason i can find is the excellent Barca midfield behind him that can keep ball possession at high values and completely annihilate defenses with a few quick passes.

The midget not dominating national team football the same way he can dominate club football makes me think you and other people don't give Barca players not named Messi enough credit, when the midget is surrounded by players that are or recently were in the discussion for the ballon d'or and not random scrubs. In fact, you guys put Messi on a pedestal and then say nonsensic shit like "Messi is the sole reason Barca is winning certain title."

[ElNono]

I wasn't comparing hardware, i was simply disagreeing with what you said, that Ronaldo keeps choking in big games throughtout his career, which is simply not true.

:lol if he didn't he would have more hardware. You can pin whatever you want on Missi, but he contributed to every piece of hardware he has, both individual and team.


Current slump :lol Barcafan makes it seem like Messi choked just in the last 2 games vs Real. When in reality his underperformances started late last season vs Real and Chelsea if not earlier and continued throughtout this season when Barca played against other elite euro clubs :lol Sorry but his scoring records vs scrubs La Liga teams can't erase those choke jobs.

By the same rationale Ronaldo has been underperforming/choking in the CL since his Man UTD days. After all, Barça having a 16 pt lead on Madrid in the league only means Ronaldo has been underperforming even against the shitty Getafes/Valencias of the world. :lol


It's a fact, Ronaldo won La Liga last season but he wasn't the sole reason for Real's success in that competition, like you're saying about Messi.

I disagree. I think he was instrumental. It's not complicated, you can't replace either player on that team and win it. Other players you can, but not those two.


You said it, Messi is light years ahead of his Barca teammates in the goal scoring department. Why does he fail to translate that dominance into national team football? And i'm talking about dominating final stages of national team competitions, not friendly matches or qualification stages. The only reason i can find is the excellent Barca midfield behind him that can keep ball possession at high values and completely annihilate defenses with a few quick passes.

Why would Messi need to be held to that standard when Ronaldo isn't? What final stages of national team competitions has Ronaldo dominated either?

Apparently, when it comes to Ronaldo, you only have to have dominated in a single game (El Clasico) and in UK football (with Man UTD), but when it comes to Messi, it has to be complete domination at every stage :lol

Again, the claim he's supposed to carry Argentina all on his own is yours and yours alone. If you want to make that claim, go ahead, but don't ask me to defend it.

When it comes to this season's Barça league win, he has been instrumental to achieve that. There's no doubt about it.


The midget not dominating national team football the same way he can dominate club football makes me think you and other people don't give Barca players not named Messi enough credit, when the midget is surrounded by players that are or recently were in the discussion for the ballon d'or and not random scrubs. In fact, you guys put Messi on a pedestal and then say nonsensic shit like "Messi is the sole reason Barca is winning certain title."

But I don't generalize. I don't say "Everything Barça ever won is because of Missi". This La Liga season specifically is all on him. The rest of the team is struggling, especially on the scoring department.

You also have two very different standards when it comes to Missi vs Ronaldo or anybody else. Ronaldo hasn't won shit at the national team level either. Cruyff, Platini never won shit with their national teams ever. You'll never say they're not great or even the best players at some point in their careers.

[Bynumite]

When a player wins 4 ballon d'or in a row and is currently considered the best player in the world, people obviously don't hold him to the standard they hold everybody else, act like you deserved to win said trophies, simple as that.

Underperforming in multiple games with titles on the line is not an option, one game is understandable, when that situation becomes an habit, of course people will start questioning your game and eventually realize the grass is greener on the other side.

[ElNono]

Revisionist history is revisionist. Missi is only one goal away from tying DiStefano with the most goals in Clasicos. The claim that his poor play in Clasicos is an 'habit' is merely wishful thinking. All the way to last year he was scoring in Clasicos and beating Madrid out of the SuperCup (his goals vs Madrid here: http://worldsoccer.about.com/od/players/tp/Messi-Vs-Real-Madrid.htm).

That said, he should take the heat for not playing well lately... at the same time, he only needs to be better than the competition, and the competition right now has been choking to the Getafes and Valencias of the world, while accomplishing nothing on the european/national level either. You can't blame the midget for that. This would be a good time for the other worthy players to raise their games, but so far, crickets...

[FYM]

Messi knows that WC is around the corner, he is getting ready to suck

[lefty]

Messi knows that WC is around the corner, he is getting ready to suck
:lol

[DAF86]

I can't be here very often right now but is Dumbnimite really saying that Messi chokes in big games? :lol

I guess he doesn't know about Messi's records in Clasicos and finals.

Hey fag, what you have to worry about first is Penaldo getting to the WC in Brazil. :lmao

[Bynumite]

I can't be here very often right now but is Dumbnimite really saying that Messi chokes in big games? :lol

I guess he doesn't know about Messi's records in Clasicos and finals.

Hey fag, what you have to worry about first is Penaldo getting to the WC in Brazil. :lmao

Midget shitting the bed lately put FAP86 over the edge, usually he would simply regurgitate stats but the latest midget choke jobs are starting to bring out some aggressiveness and butthurtness :lmao

If you're living in the past, sure, the midget is clutch as fuck. But are you really gonna deny that he was MIA vs Chelsea and Real late last season and vs Milan and Real this season? Way too many terrible performances for a 4x ballon d'or winner in a short period of time vs elite teams, just saying.

[lefty]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpg

[Relevancy]

Maradona is just a drug addict faggot, fatso taking picture with that faggot shows that he was no loyalty to his boy Messi at all, he just sides with Messi when he's doing good.

[ALVAREZ6]

Maradona is just a drug addict faggot, fatso taking picture with that faggot shows that he was no loyalty to his boy Messi at all, he just sides with Messi when he's doing good.
True, but why can't he also be a fan of Ronaldo? I don't see a problem.

[Bynumite]

Game recognize game.

Barcafan with the oversensitive bads.

[lefty]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/484959_10151276879120614_1634713266_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313389_493828817321799_1750386653_n.jpg

[lefty]

GOD got a 4 :lmao

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6159/2301289caganerhollandec.jpg

[Relevancy]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/313389_493828817321799_1750386653_n.jpgPhotoshop

[lefty]

Yeah but the other ones arent :lol

[ElNono]

GOD got a 4 :lmao

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6159/2301289caganerhollandec.jpg

:lol Madrid newspapers

[lefty]

:lol Madrid newspapers
:lol compare Mou and Roura's facial expressions

[DAF86]

Messi is already the top scorer (alongside Distefano) in Clasicos with 18. Greatness, tbh.

[lefty]

Well, he is a GOD to Asians :lmao

Messi’s foot gets golden treatment



THE ASSOCIATED PRESS MARCH 7, 2013 12:04 AM










0






[*=center]STORY
[*=center]PHOTOS ( 1 )




http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/soccer/8058149.bin

An employee of Ginza Tanaka poses beside the golden replica of football star Lionel Messi of Argentine's left foot during its press preview in Tokyo on March 6, 2013. Priced at about 5.25 million USD, the 25-kilogram golden foot was created by Tokyo-based jewelry retailer, Ginza Tanaka, to commemorate Messi's record-breaking Ballon d'Or for four consecutive years and the world-record 91 goals he scored a calender year.Photograph by: Toshifumi Kitamura , AFP/Getty Images


TOKYO - If anyone doubts Lionel Messi has a golden foot, now there's proof.
A pure gold replica of his left foot was unveiled in Tokyo on Wednesday.
The foot, which is valued at $5.25 million, was created by Japanese jeweler Ginza Tanaka to commemorate the football player's achievements.
"It's exceptional. You can see each line in the foot. It's an impressive piece of work," Messi's brother, Rodrigo, said at the unveiling.
The jeweler said he cast Messi's foot in Spain at the end of 2012.
"We loved the sound of making the 'golden left foot,' and it being gold, it was our goal to make the project of recreating Messi's left foot a reality," said Masakazu Tanaka, president of the company that made the golden artifact.
The foot will go on sale on Thursday, with an endorsement from the Leo Messi Foundation, which helps children at risk around the world.
Other golden artifacts going on sale are Messi's golden footprint worth $94,500 and the "Golden Foot Mini," which is half the size of the actual golden foot, worth $42,000.
Part of the proceeds will go to Messi's foundation, which in turn will go to support children in areas affected by the earthquake and tsunami disaster that hit Japan in March 2011.Japan in 2011.







Read more:http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Messi+foot+gets+golden+treatment/8059965/story.html#ixzz2Mq5UYbPf

[ElNono]

:cry never shows up in important games :cry

[Relevancy]

Lefty's jinxing is a little bit rusty it seems:lmao

[DAF86]

BTW, after these two goals Messi is already second in the all-time scoring list in the CL.

[ALVAREZ6]

Great goals today...Messi's 1st and Villa with that great left-footed shot, and Alba to put in a 4th at the end was pretty cool.

[lefty]

:cry never shows up in important games :cry
Well it was about fucking time

[Bynumite]

1000 games later... FAP86 stopped hiding and started talking shit as soon as the midget shows up in a game that doesn't involve shit La Liga teams... he's the definition of a true nut hugger :lmao

[DAF86]

1000 games later... FAP86 stopped hiding and started talking shit as soon as the midget shows up in a game that doesn't involve shit La Liga teams... he's the definition of a true nut hugger :lmao

After the loses against Madrid in the Copa del Rey and La Liga:


I can't be here very often right now but is Dumbnimite really saying that Messi chokes in big games? :lol

I guess he doesn't know about Messi's records in Clasicos and finals.

Hey fag, what you have to worry about first is Penaldo getting to the WC in Brazil. :lmao


Messi is already the top scorer (alongside Distefano) in Clasicos with 18. Greatness, tbh.

Right after the loss in Milan:


Maybe I spoke too soon. :lol

lefty 's jinxing powers are just too much. :wow

Now, you can keep on making shit up. God bless son.

[ElNono]

The new chosen Pope is from Argentina so he can have a direct line to god... it all makes sense now, tbh

[velik_m]

The new chosen Pope is from Argentina so he can have a direct line to god... it all makes sense now, tbh

http://metro.co.uk/2013/03/13/barcelona-take-divine-inspiration-from-papal-conclave-to-win-4-0-again-3539583/

Spooky... :lol

[Relevancy]

Argies have 2 gods representing them now, thb.

props

[ElNono]

http://i50.tinypic.com/2141oa1.png

http://i48.tinypic.com/2h8bck6.png

[resistanze]

I'd probably laugh if I uderstood Mexican, tbh.

[Relevancy]

http://i50.tinypic.com/2141oa1.png

http://i48.tinypic.com/2h8bck6.png:lol

[Venti Quattro]

312722404382224384

[IronMaxipad]

God has spoken.. PS3 >> Xbox

dealwithitfags.jpg

[DAF86]

312722404382224384

He said that he regularly gets cursed 'cause he starts playing passes backwards to waste time when he's leading. :lol

[IronMaxipad]

FIFA players that time waste are the scum of the earth. fuck messi

[DAF86]

FIFA players that time waste are the scum of the earth. fuck messi

Do you play online? You may have cursed God. :lol

[Venti Quattro]

313141452056182785

I'll be able to see God :cry :cry :cry

[Amuseddaysleeper]

313141452056182785

I'll be able to see God :cry :cry :cry

So jealous. Barca once played Toronto FC back in 2006 but I was out of the country at the time. Damn.

[DAF86]

Cassano named his son Lionel after Messi. You know you are a legend when current/fellow sportmen name childs after you, imho.

[Libri]

313141452056182785

I'll be able to see God :cry :cry :cry

Messi doesn't play for free.

[DAF86]

It doesn't say he will, tbh.

[Libri]

It doesn't say he will, tbh.

I dont' know about this game but in a previous charity game, last year I believe, it cost more to organize the event than the money that was raised. Hopefully they can raise more money in this game.

[Relevancy]

I dont' know about this game but in a previous charity game, last year I believe, it cost more to organize the event than the money that was raised. Hopefully they can raise more money in this game.That event was held in Mexico right? Seeing that La Liga MX barely fills up stadiums even when the teams are locales, it doesn't surprise me, even if this time around such a big figure was involved.

[Libri]

That event was held in Mexico right? Seeing that La Liga MX barely fills up stadiums even when the teams are locales, it doesn't surprise me, even if this time around such a big figure was involved.

Yeah. IIRC, it cost several millions to bring him over.

[DAF86]

http://i49.tinypic.com/192ul5.jpg

:lmao calft tats

I don't know if this is for real but if it is even I can't defend this shit. :lmao :lmao :lmao

[IronMaxipad]

wtf :lmao:lmao

[Relevancy]

Messi does some weird as things outside of his profession :lol

[ALVAREZ6]

:wow Please don't be real :cry :cry :cry

[Relevancy]

:wow Please don't be real :cry :cry :cryIt is real, why don't people want it to be real lol? it's just a tat

[Libri]

Messi does some weird as things outside of his profession :lol

Little people tend to do weird things, tbh.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_D-LZxhXlNXY/TCjOMVu3W2I/AAAAAAAAUTw/LOYuC9BkYz0/s400/celebrity-humor.jpg

[lefty]

http://i49.tinypic.com/192ul5.jpg

:lmao calft tats

I don't know if this is for real but if it is even I can't defend this shit. :lmao :lmao :lmao


Those are Hobbit feet

Yup it's Messi

[Venti Quattro]

This puts him on koriwhat's level.

:lmao Messi

[ALVAREZ6]

It is real, why don't people want it to be real lol? it's just a tat
calf tats...smh

[Venti Quattro]

314992112204644354

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[DAF86]

Messi on a 19 games scoring streak. He has scored against all "La Liga" teams in a row.

[velik_m]

Messi on a 19 games scoring streak. He has scored against all "La Liga" teams in a row.

Not all teams.

[DAF86]

Not all teams.

He's going to score an own goal the next week.

[Landon Donofag]

Sure Messi is great. But how would he do on a snowy night in Denver?

[Brazil]

Sure Messi is great. But how would he do on a snowy night in Denver?

who cares ?

[IronMexican]

Sure Messi is great. But how would he do on a snowy night in Denver?

:lol

[Bynumite]

Since 2010 Barca has 13 wins in the 14 games midget didn't play. Calf tats midget :lol

[lefty]

Since 2010 Barca has 13 wins in the 14 games midget didn't play. Calf tats midget :lol
:lol

DAF86,

http://www.daylol.com/images/2012/August/20/5032b25121c75.gif

[DAF86]

:lol haters hanging to anything they can get. Look at who has Barcelona beaten without Messi. Hospitalet, Bate, etc. All second or third division teams on the Copa del Rey or weak teams in meaningless UCL group stage matches.

Messi never gets injured so he only rests when the Barca coaches know they won't need him.

[ElNono]

1drdZJzLcAw#!

:lol Asians are weird, tbh

[TDMVPDPOY]

Since 2010 Barca has 13 wins in the 14 games midget didn't play. Calf tats midget :lol

whats the midgets record without both or either xavi and iniesta?

[DAF86]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFYAapWgCs0

[resistanze]

talf cats

[DAF86]

Apparently Messi agraveted his injury. Fucking World Champ wankers that couldn't do shit 'till he came in. :pctoss

[DAF86]

http://estaticos03.marca.com/imagenes/2013/04/13/futbol/equipos/barcelona/1365879690_extras_noticia_foton_7_1.jpg

[DAF86]

Any doubt whose son he is? :lol

[lefty]

Shit that midget has more muscle mass than me




*going to the gym asap *

[Relevancy]

Any doubt whose son he is? :lolI hope he turns out to be as great as his dad, or even more.

[Bynumite]

I hope he turns out to be as great as his dad, or even more.

That never happens, unless calf tats midget is already pumping up baby midget with HGH.

[Relevancy]

That never happens, unless calf tats midget is already pumping up baby midget with HGH.One can only hope:lol

[Relevancy]

Barcelona against Real Zaragoza right now.. without Messi again

[Libri]

http://p.twimg.com/A2mUobOCUAEf9YF.jpg:large

[Relevancy]

^^That picture almost looks realistic... or I hope...

[Brunodf]

That arm:wow

[lefty]

http://p.twimg.com/A2mUobOCUAEf9YF.jpg:large
http://fanoff.com/forums/download/file.php?avatar=114_1312090912.gif

[Brazil]

what a gay thread tbh, now we have the baby picture... christ

[DAF86]

I'm jelaous that Argies are better than frenchies in all the sports that matter and I like dick in my ass

[Brazil]

that's original DAF at least you don't deny your gay feelings for Diego Armando Messi...

enjoy daf

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSP5f0ut0nfYJEtKgpoWG88kZIjI9PHY 2k8EOxlJoplJLVYP_mwrA

[DAF86]

More original than saying something is gay, tbh.

[Relevancy]

Lets change the direction of this thread..

Do you guys think Neymar will find success in Barcelona? Will he become the "man" in Barsa? I know there's a lot of high expectations of him by Barsa fans, I just he meets them for his sake.

[lefty]

what a gay thread tbh, now we have the baby picture... christ
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7h9pgIYBn1rtok0go1_1280.jpg

[Brazil]

More original than saying something is gay, tbh.

what is really original is to say Manu > Dirk or posting a picture of a baby on ST not in da club when you are not a chick, that's Duncan228 level right there

[DAF86]

Yeah, well I'm not French. So at least I have that going for me.

[lefty]

what is really original is to say Manu > Dirk or posting a picture of a baby on ST not in da club when you are not a chick, that's Duncan228 level right there
:lol

[Brazil]

Yeah, well I'm not French. So at least I have that going for me.

True dat, you have 30% inflation, high poverty, one of the most corrupted government in the world, among the dumbest laws ever and , a totally fucked up economy....but u have Messi > Maradona and pele and Manu > Dirk and you are not French.

[lefty]

True dat, you have 30% inflation, high poverty, one of the most corrupted government in the world, among the dumbest laws ever and , a totally fucked up economy....but u have Messi > Maradona and pele and Manu > Dirk and you are not French.
I want to laugh at that, but I can't, because my country is fucked up too

At least we have hydrocarbures and the Mediterranean Sea

Oh well :cry

[Brazil]

I want to laugh at that, but I can't, because my country is fucked up too

At least we have hydrocarbures and the Mediterranean Sea

Oh well :cry

:lol the hell u live in Canada !!!

[lefty]

:lol the hell u live in Canada !!!
Yeah but I'm from Algeria :lol

No real beach in canada :lol
snow :lol

[DAF86]

True dat, you have 30% inflation, high poverty, one of the most corrupted government in the world, among the dumbest laws ever and , a totally fucked up economy....but u have Messi > Maradona and pele and Manu > Dirk and you are not French.

I don't have any of that you said first, tbh but I do have Messi, Maradona, Distefano > Platini, Zidane and Manu > Tony.

[lefty]

lol at Di Stefano being better than Zizou

Dont get me wrong he is a legend, and hala madrid .......... but come on

[Brazil]

I don't have any of that you said first. you don't ? Really ? Tell me a bit how so?

[DAF86]

you don't ? Really ? Tell me a bit how so?

I'm not poor, the inflation doesn't affect me 'cause at least in my case goes according to my salary raises, I like this current goverment and I don't think they are any more corrupt that any other goverment in World's history and please tell me what you consider to be "dumb" laws, tbh.

[Brunodf]

I don't have any of that you said first, tbh but I do have Messi, Maradona, Distefano > Platini, Zidane and Manu > Tony.
:lmao

[DAF86]

:lmao

Yeah, we all know that you're like Jodelo and like to overrate Zidane.

[ALVAREZ6]

the golden arrow is likely overrated, maybe
but yes maradona and messi are clearly > zidane

[Brunodf]

Yeah, we all know that you're like Jodelo (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=23669) and like to overrate Zidane.
Zidane had a better career than those players, nothing new, you are the one overrating them.

[DAF86]

Zidane had a better career than those players, nothing new, you are the one overrating them.

First, having better careers =/= being the better player. If that were the case Xavi > pretty much anybody else.

Second, it's very arguable that Zidane had a better career than those guys, heck Messi at age 25 already has an (very good) argument as having a better career than Zidane in his entire career.

[DAF86]

the golden arrow is likely overrated, maybe
but yes maradona and messi are clearly > zidane

The Golden arrow was the undisputed best player of his generation, same as Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi. Zidane wasn't.

[Brunodf]

First, having better careers =/= being the better player. If that were the case Xavi > pretty much anybody else.

Second, it's very arguable that Zidane had a better career than those guys, heck Messi at age 25 already has an (very good) argument as having a better career than Zidane in his entire career.
1- ???
2- What argument? Zidane played vs some very stacked Brazilian teams and still was able to win the WC and get to the Finals late in his career. Zidane is one of the smartest/most skilled/clutch players of all time and won everything.

[DAF86]

1- ???
2- What argument? Zidane played vs some very stacked Brazilian teams and still was able to win the WC and get to the Finals late in his career. Zidane is one of the smartest/most skilled/clutch players of all time and won everything.

1-Xavi: Three CLs, more domestic leagues than Zidane, 2 Euros, 1 WC. Would you say he's better than Zidane?
2-And Messi has him beat on pretty much every individual stat/award at age 25.

[ALVAREZ6]

The Golden arrow was the undisputed best player of his generation, same as Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi. Zidane wasn't.
Yea, of the 1950s...60 years ago. I tend to hold the legends from the 70s and earlier with a grain of salt, in most sports, because obviously sports are way different now. The old legends were great relative to their competition i.e. their era and environment. The great players of today (Messi, Iniesta, Lebron, etc) are great in absolute terms..the raw player. Obviously they grew up in a totally different environment which makes this so, but I'm more drawn to the best raw players, not the best relative to their era. Place Di Stefano into a current game between Barca and Madrid and he's likely not going to stand out much, despite being an undisputed top 5 player in history. Place Messi into the opposite situation and he scores 10 goals in 1 game. Obviously in such a scenario, it's taking a player made in the 40s and 50s and placing into current sports environment and it's an unfair comparison, but you can't say for sure that a great player from 60 years ago would necessarily flourish had he the advantages of the current sports industry.

I respect the old legends and like many of them, but in most sports the greats from half a century ago did not produce the same thing the current greats produce, it's not the same playing level. Bill Russell won 11 rings in 13 years as one of the most dominant centers in the game, yet he would be dominated by Lebron James in any way you want to compare the two. They're nearly the same height (Russell between 1-2 inches taller), James is probably 30 lbs heavier, stronger, faster and quicker. And can jump like crazy. And can basically do everything on the basketball court. They obviously play different positions and roles, but that's how good of a playing level James is on; he could dominate as a center in the 50s when it's not his natural position, while being likely the greatest SF ever when it's all said and done (clearly he is, it's just a matter of time before he retires and most people start appreciating what he does as a player).

[ALVAREZ6]

I went on a tangent there, but the above is my justification for placing Messi above Di Stefano, and not being entirely sure with Di Stefano vs. Zidane because I didn't see much of Zidane and none of Di Stefano, the prolific scorer who could score many goals against 2-man back lines and generally weak defenses.

[Brunodf]

1-Xavi: Three CLs, more domestic leagues than Zidane, 2 Euros, 1 WC. Would you say he's better than Zidane?
2-And Messi has him beat on pretty much every individual stat/award at age 25.
1- So u are saying that Xavi carried Messi in those championships, got it.
2- .......Not a good argument, until Messi win a WC he still in the Baggio/Zico/Figo category.

[DAF86]

Yea, of the 1950s...60 years ago. I tend to hold the legends from the 70s and earlier with a grain of salt, in most sports, because obviously sports are way different now. The old legends were great relative to their competition i.e. their era and environment. The great players of today (Messi, Iniesta, Lebron, etc) are great in absolute terms..the raw player. Obviously they grew up in a totally different environment which makes this so, but I'm more drawn to the best raw players, not the best relative to their era. Place Di Stefano into a current game between Barca and Madrid and he's likely not going to stand out much, despite being an undisputed top 5 player in history. Place Messi into the opposite situation and he scores 10 goals in 1 game. Obviously in such a scenario, it's taking a player made in the 40s and 50s and placing into current sports environment and it's an unfair comparison, but you can't say for sure that a great player from 60 years ago would necessarily flourish had he the advantages of the current sports industry.

I respect the old legends and like many of them, but in most sports the greats from half a century ago did not produce the same thing the current greats produce, it's not the same playing level. Bill Russell won 11 rings in 13 years as one of the most dominant centers in the game, yet he would be dominated by Lebron James in any way you want to compare the two. They're nearly the same height (Russell between 1-2 inches taller), James is probably 30 lbs heavier, stronger, faster and quicker. And can jump like crazy. And can basically do everything on the basketball court. They obviously play different positions and roles, but that's how good of a playing level James is on; he could dominate as a center in the 50s when it's not his natural position, while being likely the greatest SF ever when it's all said and done (clearly he is, it's just a matter of time before he retires and most people start appreciating what he does as a player).

Place Messi in the 60's and he may have not done shit 'cause he would have been 4 foot nothing. I understand your point and it's true to some extent but the absolute truth is that Distefano dominated his era, why him and not other from that era? 'Cause he was special, simple as that. Place Distefano nowadays with this new training technics and he would surely have been better than what he was.

[DAF86]

1- So u are saying that Xavi carried Messi in those championships, got it.
2- .......Not a good argument, until Messi win a WC he still in the Baggio/Zico/Figo category.

1-In football nobody carries anything, you play as a team and win as a team. Zidane certainly didn't carry shit with that overrated World Cup performance in '98.
2-The WC argument is the one that is "not good", given that 3 of the 5 most populary declared best players in history haven't won it.

[Brunodf]

1-In football nobody carries anything, you play as a team and win as a team. Zidane certainly didn't carry shit with that overrated World Cup performance in '98.
2-The WC argument is the one that is "not good", given that 3 of the 5 most populary declared best players in history haven't won it.
1-:lol. Zidane was the centerpiece and scored twice in the finals
2- What? What's your top 5?

[DAF86]

1-:lol. Zidane was the centerpiece and scored twice in the finals
2- What? What's your top 5?

All that Zidane did in '98 was score two headers, in '06 he almost misses a penalty and got himself red carded.

Not mine, the top 5 that most "pundits" give is:

Distefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi. The only undisputed best players of their generation in football history.

[ALVAREZ6]

Place Messi in the 60's and he may have not done shit 'cause he would have been 4 foot nothing. I understand your point and it's true to some extent but the absolute truth is that Distefano dominated his era, why him and not other from that era? 'Cause he was special, simple as that. Place Distefano nowadays with this new training technics and he would surely have been better than what he was.
Right, but you can't say he would be at Messi's level. If the question is greater raw player, I would go with Messi. And despite how much I love Magic Johnson the person and player (and his accomplishments), I would put Lebron over him.

[ALVAREZ6]

All that Zidane did in '98 was score two headers, in '06 he almost misses a penalty and got himself red carded.

Not mine, the top 5 that most "pundits" give is:

Distefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi. The only undispited best players of their generation in football history.
Interestingly enough Zidane fits in the playing period between Maradona and Messi, really the only significant gap in playing years between those 5 players.

[Brunodf]

All that Zidane did in '98 was score two headers, in '06 he almost misses a penalty and got himself red carded.

Not mine, the top 5 that most "pundits" give is:

Distefano, Pele, Cruyff, Maradona and Messi. The only undisputed best players of their generation in football history.
But do u truly believe those players are the top 5?

[DAF86]

Interestingly enough Zidane fits in the playing period between Maradona and Messi, really the only significant gap in playing years between those 5 players.

But Ronaldo was there too and in most people opinion (and mine too) Ronaldo was better than Zidane.

[DAF86]

But do u truly believe those players are the top 5?

The only one I have seen play live at his prime of those 5 is Messi and he's by far the best player I have seen in my life and yes I have seen Zidane play at his prime.

[Brunodf]

The only one I have seen play live at his prime of those 5 is Messi and he's by far the best player I have seen in my life and yes I have seen Zidane play at his prime.
Ok, but based on history/stats/what u heard, do u really think that they are the top 5?

[DAF86]

Ok, but based on history/stats/what u heard, do u really think that they are the top 5?

If 99% of the population say that you're the undisputed best player in the World, it's for something. So yeah, I tend to pay attention to that.

[ALVAREZ6]

But Ronaldo was there too and in most people opinion (and mine too) Ronaldo was better than Zidane.
Yup, I also think Ronaldo was amazing, but I'm in no way about to say which between the 2 (Ronaldo and Zidane) was the better player as I didn't see them enough at my current level of understanding. I was just pointing out that there's a significant gap in time there, and wonder whether I would try to place one of these 2 players with the other 5 so that the full timeline and all "generations" (very loose term, lol) are represented, or if I would keep the 5 because they aren't good enough to be propped up with the others.


Again, did Zidane and Ronaldo stand out as much as the others relative to their competition? For sure either would dominate in Di Stefano's era. This is why it's sort of a conundrum for me. You can keep the terms to relative to competition, and history's all-time greats list would omit players that clearly put a better product on the pitch.