Is there really any point in trying to reload this summer?

[benefactor]

Let's face reality here...Tim Duncan is done. He's done. He had played like 18 minutes before the beginning of the 4th and could not carry the team past the Nets. The night before he only played 26 minutes.

What's the point in trying again? I've said this before but it's looking more and more like a reality...the Spurs are dangerously close to becoming the early 2000's Utah Jazz. They should let Manu go and trade RJ for straight expirings. I don't even care if they get a decent draft pick in return. They should probably think about getting whatever value they can get for Parker also. I'm not sure what they do with Duncan. They should not trade him, but perhaps sitting down with him and discussing a plan for rebuilding might be a good idea. I doubt he would want to stay around if the Spurs weren't going to be competitive, so maybe they could work out a buyout for him so he could retire.

[timtonymanu]

If Tim wants to rebuild, then rebuild. If he wants one more year, then one more year.

The decision of this team should come down to him, not to Pop or the front office.

[TD 21]

No, they owe it to Duncan to try one last time next season. The man gave back significant money so that they would do that and he's won them four championships. After that, with the lockout likely to come, it'll probably eat up part of, if not all of, his final season on his contract, then he'll likely retire and the Spurs will be forced into re-building. So it's not like they have to hold out for another three years.

[rascal]

Would you be writing this had the spurs won tonight?

This place overreacts with every win and loss.

[DesignatedT]

remember before the season when duncan was suppose to be the 4th option on offense this year?

thats where we got screwed... he was the 1st option for the first half of the year and the 2nd option ever since "old manu" felt like playing.

[benefactor]

No, they owe it to Duncan to try one last time next season. The man gave back significant money so that they would do that and he's won them four championships. After that, with the lockout likely to come, it'll probably eat up part of, if not all of, his final season on his contract, then he'll likely retire and the Spurs will be forced into re-building. So it's not like they have to hold out for another three years.
He did...but that doesn't change the fact that he lost weight and came into the season in tremendous shape yet he still does not have enough gas in the tank to get through the season.

I think trying again is just going through the motions. Re-signing Manu and bringing in Splitter is not going to be enough. It will be the big three with a first year big, a second year big, a washed up McDyess, Matt Bonner, one solid wing player and a bunch of young players and washed up vet minimum players. Without a dominant Timmy, it's simply not enough.

[timtonymanu]

Honestly if Tony and Manu can just rest this summer along with Tim, this team can be so much better next season.

We know the potential they have if everyone can stay healthy. If we're gonna try one title run I would bring everyone back but Bogans Mason and McDyess.

[TJastal]

If Pop's plan next season is to re-sign and use Matt Bonner for almost 30 minutes a game, continue using Bogans as a 'centerpiece', and then proceed to dick around all year long with trying to find the next D league bargain basement player (*cough* Garrett) then yah for everyone's sake (esp Manu and Tim) its time to blow it up to ease the inevitable suffering that's guaranteed to be coming.

[SenorSpur]

They already tried reloading on the fly. It didn't work. The FO simply made the wrong choices in players. If they wanted to reload again, they should've done so at the tread deadline, when they could've burned Bonner, Mason and Finley's contracts for the likes of Tyrus Thomas and John Salmons. Some fresh productive blood that would've helped them through the stretch run and improved the overall talent level of the roster heading into the postseason and next year.

Now, I believe they should simply rebuild. Besides if Manu bolts during the summer, the FO will not have any choice. They'll be rebuilding whether they or Duncan like it or not.

[benefactor]

Would you be writing this had the spurs won tonight?

This place overreacts with every win and loss.
I've been thinking about this for a while now...and it's only been confirmed in watching this back to back. The Spurs have had a good month all things considered, but Duncan has only scored over 20 twice and has only had THREE double digit rebounding games. Instead of strengthening he is declining quickly. Believe me, I want him to prove me wrong...but I just don't see it happening.

[Lars]

Rebuild.

[baseline bum]

They should let Manu go


For nothing?


and trade RJ for straight expirings. I don't even care if they get a decent draft pick in return.

RJ is a straight expiring. RJ should be traded to a team desperate for capspace who would be willing to give up good picks or promising young players.

[TD 21]

He did...but that doesn't change the fact that he lost weight and came into the season in tremendous shape yet he still does not have enough gas in the tank to get through the season.

I think trying again is just going through the motions. Re-signing Manu and bringing in Splitter is not going to be enough. It will be the big three with a first year big, a second year big, a washed up McDyess, Matt Bonner, one solid wing player and a bunch of young players and washed up vet minimum players. Without a dominant Timmy, it's simply not enough.

I agree with you, don't get me wrong. I have no such illusions about this team winning one last championship in the Duncan era, but this is a league without a great team right now and the closest thing to do it could (though I don't think they will) lose their best player this off season, so it's not out of the question that the Spurs could be in the mix next season. Like I said, if they're not, then the re-build will start anyway, so why not give it one last shot? They'll be plenty of time to attempt to rebuild the team after next season and let's face it, it'll takes years just to get it back to this point.

If Splitter comes over, McDyess is gone. They're not paying him over $4 million to be the fourth big, plus it would leave them without a stretch four, something they're obsessed with having.

[InK]

Dont get why everyone seems so eager to rip this team apart, the lottery is gonna be there waiting for us when this core is gone anways. We shouldn't be reloading yeh, but no way we just blow this team up. Parker lost an entire season to injuries, it took Manu half the season to get back into game form, and Tim had to carry way to much load for way to much time. We gotta give it one more shot even if nothing good happens in the PO this years. We sign Manu to an extention and just cross our fingers that TP and him are gonna be healthy next year...

[kaji157]

It al comes down to Duncan and to some Point to Jefferson. If the think they are due 40 millions for 2 years (Duncan) and 15 for 1 (Jefferson) then we are done and Manu will be likely gone.
If they think they need to give up some money to have a chance to win, then we might try for 2 more years.
And the FO needs to stop putting their heads in the sand and cover some of the various mistakes they did the last 3 years.
(Ginobili, Scola, McDyess, Jefferson... etc)
They were right with Hill, and lucky with Blair... that´s all they´ve done.

[ElNono]

There is a point. But Tim needs to play 20 or less minutes a night for the first half of the season. It really boils down to that. This is something I thought the coaching staff would do this season, but for a number of reasons it didn't happen. Hopefully we'll rid ourselves of a lot of dead weight too (Bonner, Mason and Bogans) and we can get a few competitive guys that fill out those spots.
As far as this season, as soon as we lock that 8th seed, I would sit TD ASAP until the playoffs start. Give those knees some rest.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Would you be writing this had the spurs won tonight?

This place overreacts with every win and loss.

:tu

[spurs10]

If Tim hadn't played so hard the first half of this season, can you imagine what our record would look like. We wouldn't make the 8th seed, that's for sure. Bogans and Dice played horrible tonight. I was pretty optimistic after the win last night...how quickly things can change.

[kaji157]

If Tim hadn't played so hard the first half of this season, can you imagine what our record would look like. We wouldn't make the 8th seed, that's for sure. Bogans and Dice played horrible tonight. I was pretty optimistic after the win last night...how quickly things can change.

A lot here say that Manu is worth less than what he is being payed because he plays half a season. So Duncan must receive the same treatment.
Posters here need to be a little more consistent on what they think about players, merits and paycheck.

I think Duncan should be playing well tonight, because we needed a win, yet he played as if he didn´t care much. And don´t tell me the "it´s tired" i am 100% sure that Duncan won´t be tired in the PO.

[TDMVPDPOY]

td
blair
ghill3

rest of team is expendable...rebuild for the future

[spurs1990]

td
blair
ghill3

rest of team is expendable...rebuild for the future

Not sure about TD. He could conceivable digress to an imposter of his former self.

His last two seasons could get oogly.:(

[mingus]

let's see how he does come playoffs. historically Duncan has stepped up to a whole other level in the playoffs. they'll need him, that's for sure. if he can't score at a 50% clip in the playoffs, then we can honestly say he's done.

i don' thiink he's playing for seeds right now. he's aware of the fact that no matter what seed they get right they're going to have to play LA. he might just be trying to rest his body.

i'm not going to give up on the guy, though, no matter what. not before the playoffs. i think people are jumping the gun. last year, against Dallas, it was pretty much the same story, then he exploded in that series. so i'm going to stick with history and hope it sticks.

[mingus]

i can see TD renegotiating his contract, though. it depends on how much emphasis he will put on going out with a champioship. it's clear they need to bring in somebody - a big - that can score and be a defense presense. Dice isn't a good enough defensive player to really relieve and help Duncan. Tiago Splitter is a guy that could change this team.

i'm not saying TD isn't worth his money, guys. dude has accomplished a lot and done a lot for this franchise. when you look at other players in this league and what they get paid, and then compare it to what they've actually accomplished, it's laughable, and in that respect he is worth it and earned his paycheck.

but it's very likely the Spurs won't win a thing with him making what he's making the next two years. they need an addition to this team and the team is already way over the cap.

[jestersmash]

Why on earth would you get rid of parker though? He's literally a one man wrecking crew for the spurs, he doesn't NEED anybody else on the team to function properly in his scoring in the paint/scoring in fast break-role.

[eyeh8u]

bosh next year

[Johnny RIngo]

They already tried reloading on the fly. It didn't work. The FO simply made the wrong choices in players. If they wanted to reload again, they should've done so at the tread deadline, when they could've burned Bonner, Mason and Finley's contracts for the likes of Tyrus Thomas and John Salmons. Some fresh productive blood that would've helped them through the stretch run and improved the overall talent level of the roster heading into the postseason and next year.


I don't think the FO would be stupid enough NOT to make that move. The Bulls either didn't like our pieces or Holt didn't want to take on anymore salary.

[benefactor]

For nothing?

Of course the best case scenario in this is a sign and trade for a decent player/decent picks, but I don't see that happening. I think he will either re-sign or walk.


RJ is a straight expiring. RJ should be traded to a team desperate for capspace who would be willing to give up good picks or promising young players.
My fingers and brain weren't really working together when I said that. :)

Honestly, I don't see the Spurs being able to move him. I'd like to see him dumped for whatever they could get, but I think the only chance they have is to take back another less financially crippling deal in return that might be a little longer...and there are very few of these going into the 2010 offseason. If GS wanted to get out from under Biedrins' deal that could be an option(RJ for Biedrins/VladRad?).

If Tim hadn't played so hard the first half of this season, can you imagine what our record would look like. We wouldn't make the 8th seed, that's for sure. Bogans and Dice played horrible tonight. I was pretty optimistic after the win last night...how quickly things can change.
It was nice to get those wins, but I feel like wins like that are fools gold at this point when gauging whether or not this team can be a contender. Duncan's numbers in March are the elephant in the room right now.

Why on earth would you get rid of parker though? He's literally a one man wrecking crew for the spurs, he doesn't NEED anybody else on the team to function properly in his scoring in the paint/scoring in fast break-role.
He's not going to want to re-sign if the Spurs are in rebuild mode. IIRC, he has already voiced his opinion about this. I certainly don't think they trade him for nothing, but if they can get a solid rotation player and a high first round pick then I'd be for moving him.

[Muser]

I wouldn't be against rebuilding from scratch, but I highly doubt the Spurs blow it all up.

[Bruno]

Duncan's problem is that his knees can't hold for a whole season. Duncan was great this year before the ASG.

This year, he takes more rest during the summer and Pop did a very good job at limiting his minutes but it seems that it wasn't enough.
Next year, Spurs should do all they can to have a fresh Duncan for the playoffs. He should play 20mpg with no back to back during the regular season.

The key to limit that much Duncan's minutes is to have a very solid roster at PF/C. If Spurs can do that, Duncan could still make some noise during a playoffs run.

[smeagol]

Would you be writing this had the spurs won tonight?

This place overreacts with every win and loss.

This is the first time I agree with you in over 6 years of posting at ST

[Whisky Dog]

Resign Manu, make a run for Splitter, and try to improve this summer. Put Duncan on the Roger Clemens plan from a couple years ago and basically only play him very spot minutes until after the all star break. If you can't make it competitively in a position to make a push by then unload Manu at deadline along with whatever else you can get for guys like Parker.

[da_suns_fan]

No, they owe it to Duncan to try one last time next season. The man gave back significant money so that they would do that and he's won them four championships. After that, with the lockout likely to come, it'll probably eat up part of, if not all of, his final season on his contract, then he'll likely retire and the Spurs will be forced into re-building. So it's not like they have to hold out for another three years.

:rolleyes

Geezus..they owe Duncan NOTHING. THey are paying him freaking million and millions of dollars to play basketball. He should be willing to do whatever they want.

[dbestpro]

Pop should be forced to wear a brown paper bag over his face for the way he has handled Timmy this year. The were so worried about Parker and Manu yet they have thrown the franchise to the wolves. It is apparent that the lack of help from Dice and Pops small ball has almost turned the greatest PF in the history of the NBA into an on court invalid. To not provide support and in fact remove big support at the trade deadline is an epic failure far worse than the Scola trade or anything else that has happened. Yes, it is true Timmy is nearing the end and it did not have to come this soon.

[Dex]

http://www.mytinyphone.com/uploads/users/kiveya/150901.gif

[Johnny RIngo]

Pop should be forced to wear a brown paper bag over his face for the way he has handled Timmy this year. The were so worried about Parker and Manu yet they have thrown the franchise to the wolves. It is apparent that the lack of help from Dice and Pops small ball has almost turned the greatest PF in the history of the NBA into an on court invalid. To not provide support and in fact remove big support at the trade deadline is an epic failure far worse than the Scola trade or anything else that has happened. Yes, it is true Timmy is nearing the end and it did not have to come this soon.

Holt's fault. He was pinching pennies with Scola and, more than likely, told the team to shed salary when they dumped Ratliff on the Bobcats.

[raspsa]

Rebuilding the team is going to happen sooner or later. The only reason why Holt wouldn't rebuild is if he was selling the team. Otherwise, the team will add/remove players to try and remain competitive, same as all the rest. Timmy will eventually be gone, just a question of when. But the Spurs will still be around long after he's gone.

[elbamba]

I don't get it. This team is finally playing well. We dropped a game to the Nets, big deal. We were down two players. Are the Spurs going to win the championship, probably not. But we have pieces that could really come together next year. R.J. is finally playing well and taking the ball to the basket. If he had played like he does not 2 weeks into the season, the Spurs would have 5-6 more wins. If Manu had played like he is playing now in the first half, the Spurs would have 10 more wins.

The point is that if all our key players rest this summer, this team will be dangerous. We will have 6 solid proven players in Duncan, Manu (if resigned), Tony, Hill, Blair, R.J. We will have Harriston to help build, we could have Splitter and another 1st round draft pick. This team will be a contender next year, if they stay healthy. Remember that the Spurs have not really been healthy or conditioned together all year long.

[Whisky Dog]

I don't get it. This team is finally playing well. We dropped a game to the Nets, big deal. We were down two players. Are the Spurs going to win the championship, probably not. But we have pieces that could really come together next year. R.J. is finally playing well and taking the ball to the basket. If he had played like he does not 2 weeks into the season, the Spurs would have 5-6 more wins. If Manu had played like he is playing now in the first half, the Spurs would have 10 more wins.

The point is that if all our key players rest this summer, this team will be dangerous. We will have 6 solid proven players in Duncan, Manu (if resigned), Tony, Hill, Blair, R.J. We will have Harriston to help build, we could have Splitter and another 1st round draft pick. This team will be a contender next year, if they stay healthy. Remember that the Spurs have not really been healthy or conditioned together all year long.

Dangerous in December. In April when it matters TD will be broken. Gotta sit him til ASB and only play him a 40 game season.

[Cane]

Duncan's tired as hell. This has probably been the busiest and craziest schedule the Spurs have had in years and he's on a team where no on else averages a shotblock a game other than him.

He's just tired and in a bad funk offensively and opposing teams still throw a lot of defenders at him. He still has a defensive presence, alters shots, rebounds, passes, etc on a high level lately though despite having to carry the frontcourt.

[VBM]

Define "reload." You still have Parker who (hopefully) will rest up this summer. You have Hill (who has these expectations of carrying the team when in reality he's a second-year player...cut him some slack). Blair will improve, RJ will know the system. If Manu comes back, you still have a top 5 backcourt in the NBA with Parker and Ginobili (if both are healthy) and a solid wing in Jefferson.

Duncan isn't the best player on this team anymore. Like every other big man before him, he's slowing down. To pretend like it wasn't ever going to happen is stupid. That said, he still commands double-teams, he still spaces the floor with the attention he garners. If people like Mason and Bogans could knock down the wide-open shots that Duncan's presence gets them, it wouldn't be a big issue.

Keep Parker, sign Ginobili if he is willing to do a reasonable deal, and either increase Jefferson's role or turn his contract into something good. The team isn't done...but Tim Duncan as #1 option, well, that's been dunzo for awhile

[elbamba]

Dangerous in December. In April when it matters TD will be broken. Gotta sit him til ASB and only play him a 40 game season.

If we have a healthy team, I have no doubt that next year, we will lean less on Tim. If Manu and Tony had not sucked the first half, things would be different. If they decide to rest this summer instead of playing for their countries, the Spurs will have a great chance next year.

[mingus]

this is just such a stupid, pessimistic thread. probably the most bafflingly stupid i've read on ST in recent memory.

i can't get over why anyone would want to give up on a team that has three top-5 players at their respective positions, much less right after a loss to NJ, in which they could've won if Manu played.

Manu is playing like the second best SG in the league, and TP was considered top-3 last year, and an MVP candidate. they both score at an amazingly goof rate - probably the best for their position.
and Duncan is still a top-5 pf.

this team just beat the best team in the league, a great team in Boston, when toe-to-toe with Atlanta on their court, and were in it against LA for much of the 4th - ALL WITHOUT A PLAYER MANY CONSIDER TO BE THE BEST ON THIS TEAM IN TP.

Christ's sake.

[benefactor]

Rebuilding the team is going to happen sooner or later. The only reason why Holt wouldn't rebuild is if he was selling the team. Otherwise, the team will add/remove players to try and remain competitive, same as all the rest. Timmy will eventually be gone, just a question of when. But the Spurs will still be around long after he's gone.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3166/2429948367_345483ea4c.jpg

And what is all this about Duncan being tired? Bruno said it best...Pop limited his minutes more than ever and he is still looking like he's played 40 minutes a night since the beginning of the year.

It's not about Duncan being tired. He can't play a whole season of basketball anymore...period. He's done, not tired. It is what it is and anything else is just denial. I don't see the Spurs dropping his minutes to 20 a game and I certainly don't see them shutting him down for big chunks of the season to try to squeeze another playoff run out of him.

Seriously folks...it's been great, but it's time to let go.

[SenorSpur]

Whatever type of justification Pop and RC gave to Holt as the reason they needed to aggressive upgrade the roster this summer, has now vanished. We've already seen evidence that they're now back to the penny-pinching strategy of fiscal responsibility. If that is the case, they have no choice but to rebuild.

[Hooks]

:rolleyes

Geezus..they owe Duncan NOTHING. THey are paying him freaking million and millions of dollars to play basketball. He should be willing to do whatever they want.


W/out Duncan the Spurs prolly wouldn't even be in San Antonio anymore, there are no championships w/out him, he even took a pay cut so that the Spurs could get someone good. They owe him A LOT.

[kaji157]

Whatever type of justification Pop and RC gave to Holt as the reason they needed to aggressive upgrade the roster this summer, has now vanished. We've already seen evidence that they're now back to the penny-pinching strategy of fiscal responsibility. If that is the case, they have no choice but to rebuild.

Well if they sign n trade Manu, and Trade Tony, Duncan and Jefferson now, they might have quite a few pick to be competitive after the next 3 years. I would try to trade them to lower market teams and not all picks for this year´s draft as most likely this draft won´t be very deep.

But there you got, 4 picks for your 4 stars. Maybe another for a good role player. Keep Hill, keep Blair, change your coach, Keep Mahinmi, Hairston and Gee. And with 2 bad years of bad basketball that´s 2 other lotery picks.
6 good first round pick´s in exchange for all your hopes seems unfair, but could guarantee you another good decade.

[jjktkk]

Whatever type of justification Pop and RC gave to Holt as the reason they needed to aggressive upgrade the roster this summer, has now vanished. We've already seen evidence that they're now back to the penny-pinching strategy of fiscal responsibility. If that is the case, they have no choice but to rebuild.

The Spurs won't rebuild because in order to do that they would have to trade Duncan, or force him to retire. Won't happen. In the off season, I see the Spurs resigining Ginoboli and signing Splitter. I am interested to see if Gist can make the team next year. Gist's skill set, being a combo pf/sf, is something the Spurs could use. Depending on who they pick up in the draft, I see the Spurs trying to upgrade the sf position, or C position.

[NFGIII]

let's see how he does come playoffs. historically Duncan has stepped up to a whole other level in the playoffs. they'll need him, that's for sure. if he can't score at a 50% clip in the playoffs, then we can honestly say he's done.

i don' thiink he's playing for seeds right now. he's aware of the fact that no matter what seed they get right they're going to have to play LA. he might just be trying to rest his body.

i'm not going to give up on the guy, though, no matter what. not before the playoffs. i think people are jumping the gun. last year, against Dallas, it was pretty much the same story, then he exploded in that series. so i'm going to stick with history and hope it sticks.

Hopefully you're right about this. TD does go to another level come playoff time so right now I'll be optimistic about TD.

And getting to the Finals means going through LA - that's pretty much seems to be the case IHMO. And I really don't see them getting upset so I expect them to be in the WCF. And if anyone thinks that the Spurs might make the WCF and face them then why not in the 1st round? With the way the NBA schedules the 1st round the Spurs and TD will get more rest than they would in the WCF. I believe that there are several days off between games in the 1st round but only one day come WCF IIRC. That would at least make it more competitive and give the Spurs a better chance of beating them.


Whatever type of justification Pop and RC gave to Holt as the reason they needed to aggressive upgrade the roster this summer, has now vanished. We've already seen evidence that they're now back to the penny-pinching strategy of fiscal responsibility. If that is the case, they have no choice but to rebuild.

that's sad since as you stated earlier they could have at least made a run at Thomas/Salmons but didn't or there was no evidence that they did.
But Holt is a businessman and that may have kicked in and the old saying came home - Screw me once and its your fault but screw me twice...

Holt may have felt that the RJ gamble wasn't going to pay off so might as well cut his losses and not put up any more :greedy.


The Spurs won't rebuild because in order to do that they would have to trade Duncan, or force him to retire. Won't happen. In the off season, I see the Spurs resigining Ginoboli and signing Splitter. I am interested to see if Gist can make the team next year. Gist's skill set, being a combo pf/sf, is something the Spurs could use. Depending on who they pick up in the draft, I see the Spurs trying to upgrade the sf position, or C position.

Really don't know what is going to happen. If the Spurs totally melt down in the 1st round and get embarassed then anything could happen. I think they would try to re-sign Manu but with the lockout looming Splitter may decide to wait until that blows over to sign with the Spurs. If that happens then TD is once more in a position of having to play more minutes without a quality 5 making him a 5 and taking a beating.

Whether Gist can be productive remains to be seen. I really haven't kept up with him overseas so if someone has please jump in with an update as to if he or can't cut it. But if he could then maybe Bonner could be packaged with RJ and others for a nice addition or something to that effect.

[TD 21]

:rolleyes

Geezus..they owe Duncan NOTHING. THey are paying him freaking million and millions of dollars to play basketball. He should be willing to do whatever they want.

At the time Duncan signed his extension, he was still widely regarded by many publications entering that season as the best player in the league, so if the Spurs didn't pay him "millions or dollars", I know 29 other teams that would have. The reality is he could have been making significantly more ($5.5 million a season more for his final 2 years) if he wanted to. He didn't not take that money so that the organization could pocket it, he did it so that they could get him more help as he entered the twilight of his career.

And by more help, I have a hard time believing that consisted of a 6-9 old man who can't run, jump or help him protect the rim or a 6-6 rookie, who also can't help him protect the rim (not that he wasn't a steal). The organization has failed him and because of this and the fact that he had to carry the entire team for half a season, he's predictably breaking down again. They have one final chance to get him legit help this summer (it starts with signing Splitter) and yes, they owe it to him to do so. For all he's done for this organization, they at least owe it to him to keep their word and not do a 180 and re-build, just because he's no longer all world.

[kaji157]

At the time Duncan signed his extension, he was still widely regarded by many publications entering that season as the best player in the league, so if the Spurs didn't pay him "millions or dollars", I know 29 other teams that would have. The reality is he could have been making significantly more ($5.5 million a season more for his final 2 years) if he wanted to. He didn't not take that money so that the organization could pocket it, he did it so that they could get him more help as he entered the twilight of his career.

And by more help, I have a hard time believing that consisted of a 6-9 old man who can't run, jump or help him protect the rim or a 6-6 rookie, who also can't help him protect the rim (not that he wasn't a steal). The organization has failed him and because of this and the fact that he had to carry the entire team for half a season, he's predictably breaking down again. They have one final chance to get him legit help this summer (it starts with signing Splitter) and yes, they owe it to him to do so. For all he's done for this organization, they at least owe it to him to keep their word and not do a 180 and re-build, just because he's no longer all world.
Quite arguably, as Duncan contract could be negotiated as we speak, the Spurs rushed a lot to resign him, for whatever reason, if the started negotiations right now they could have signed him for cheaper price, risky, but probable.

[Sisk]

this is just such a stupid, pessimistic thread. Probably the most bafflingly stupid i've read on st in recent memory.

I can't get over why anyone would want to give up on a team that has three top-5 players at their respective positions, much less right after a loss to nj, in which they could've won if manu played.

Manu is playing like the second best sg in the league, and tp was considered top-3 last year, and an mvp candidate. They both score at an amazingly goof rate - probably the best for their position.
And duncan is still a top-5 pf.

This team just beat the best team in the league, a great team in boston, when toe-to-toe with atlanta on their court, and were in it against la for much of the 4th - all without a player many consider to be the best on this team in tp.

Christ's sake.

+1

[FeZZy]

fuck it up

[ChumpDumper]

Tyrus Thomas and John Salmons:rollin

[SenorSpur]

The Spurs won't rebuild because in order to do that they would have to trade Duncan, or force him to retire. Won't happen. In the off season, I see the Spurs resigining Ginoboli and signing Splitter. I am interested to see if Gist can make the team next year. Gist's skill set, being a combo pf/sf, is something the Spurs could use. Depending on who they pick up in the draft, I see the Spurs trying to upgrade the sf position, or C position.

Agree on most of your points. If Gist is good enough to finally crack the roster, he'll give provide skills needed as the stretch 4 that Pop has tried so desparately to fill with lesser-qualified players.

The SF position really should be THE position of need that is filled via the NBA draft. Personally, I believe they should be able to get a good SF (Paul George - Fresno State, perhaps), who can run behind RJ next year, then assume the mantle in his sophomore season.

At this point, I don't think any of us can bank on either Splitter or Manu for next year. Again, if Manu bolts, for whatever reason, the rebuilding WILL clearly be underway.

[ezau]

Duncan is being asked to anchor the defense and score an All-Star level day in, day out. He's been carrying the team whole season long and you're still complaining? He'l be fine

[BackHome]

I like Paul George alot and think he would be a good fit for us since we are going to have to replace RJ in a year. If we can pick him up and if we can bring over Splitter then things start looking alot better from my view point.

If we don't pick up Splitter then we have to get an athletic shot blocker/rebounder who can help Timmy on defense. I hate it when Timmy goes to the bench and then we move Bonner to center!

We still have Gist and Nando the French kidd who could come in and maybe help out our bench. Either way we need to find replacments for Mason and Finley. I am not sold on Harriston yet........

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

We have TD under contract until 2012, and quite frankly I think we keep him and rebuild. I don't think we have to trade him. If the franchise went to him and explained that it's time to go with youth and they want him to mentor the youngsters, which may help to speed up the development, I actually think he's the kind of guy who might be cool with that.

[SenorSpur]

We have TD under contract until 2012, and quite frankly I think we keep him and rebuild. I don't think we have to trade him. If the franchise went to him and explained that it's time to go with youth and they want him to mentor the youngsters, which may help to speed up the development, I actually think he's the kind of guy who might be cool with that.

I agree. I simply can't see Tim wanting out, depsite whatever direction the Spurs FO decide to go in.

[TD 21]

We have TD under contract until 2012, and quite frankly I think we keep him and rebuild. I don't think we have to trade him. If the franchise went to him and explained that it's time to go with youth and they want him to mentor the youngsters, which may help to speed up the development, I actually think he's the kind of guy who might be cool with that.

Keep in mind that the seemingly inevitable lockout is looming in '11, so really we're talking about one more year most likely, not two (at least full years). What's wrong with trying one more time (in a league that doesn't have a great team)? Plenty of time to re-build after that. You know what the point of re-building is? To get back -- and hopefully exceed -- the Spurs current level, but if they're already at it, why wouldn't you try to win? It's unlikely, but it's not completely out of the question that with a couple of shrewd moves (of course health permitting) that this team is back in contention next season.

They owe this to Duncan, I don't care what anyone says. This guy gave back $11 million over 2 years so that they'd add pieces, not re-build. How can they justify doing this to a player who's meant so much to the franchise? If he had another three years and there was no lockout looming, I get it, but we're talking about one year.

[TDMVPDPOY]

We have TD under contract until 2012, and quite frankly I think we keep him and rebuild. I don't think we have to trade him. If the franchise went to him and explained that it's time to go with youth and they want him to mentor the youngsters, which may help to speed up the development, I actually think he's the kind of guy who might be cool with that.

wtf is he going to mentor? we currently have no big that can fill his shoes or be the face of this franchise in the future, mahinmi no...splitter could be a possibility but everyday it seems like his getting away from our hands...

im down for a trade where we can get a big return to build around...

[Xevious]

this is just such a stupid, pessimistic thread. probably the most bafflingly stupid i've read on ST in recent memory.

i can't get over why anyone would want to give up on a team that has three top-5 players at their respective positions, much less right after a loss to NJ, in which they could've won if Manu played.

Manu is playing like the second best SG in the league, and TP was considered top-3 last year, and an MVP candidate. they both score at an amazingly goof rate - probably the best for their position.
and Duncan is still a top-5 pf.

this team just beat the best team in the league, a great team in Boston, when toe-to-toe with Atlanta on their court, and were in it against LA for much of the 4th - ALL WITHOUT A PLAYER MANY CONSIDER TO BE THE BEST ON THIS TEAM IN TP.

Christ's sake.
When was the last time those "three top-5 players at their respective positions" have played healthy together? The 2007-08 season?

Look at Tim's numbers. He has scored 20 points exactly two times in the last 16 games. People made a big deal about his second-half decline last season. This year is much worse. And that's without some publicized injury like tendonosis. Tony carried the team last year at this time, Manu is doing it this year.

I'm not suggesting anybody be let go or traded. But the health of these guys will always be suspect. In Tim's case he just doesn't have the mileage left to be a 20-10 player all season. That's no knock on him, everybody ages. It's extremely unlikely these three win a title together again, which is why people are throwing out the idea of trades.

[jestersmash]

I think the spurs should take a day or two watching reruns of their championship years, paying particular attention to their impeccable hustle on the defensive end. The rotations were so god damned crisp and quick back then with every player expending large amounts of energy hounding whoever they were guarding.

Honestly these days the only player who seems to give a shit about playing lockdown defense is ginobili. I dare say ginobili is actually a better defender than keith "can't shoot a 3" bogans.

If bogans is going to be a useless sack of meat out there on the offensive end, he better be willing to hustle his ass off and get a shit load better at lateral movement come playoff time. where the fuck is bruce when you need him..seriously.

[benefactor]

We have TD under contract until 2012, and quite frankly I think we keep him and rebuild. I don't think we have to trade him. If the franchise went to him and explained that it's time to go with youth and they want him to mentor the youngsters, which may help to speed up the development, I actually think he's the kind of guy who might be cool with that.
I don't have any problems with them keeping Duncan. He has earned the right to have the final say in what happens in these last years his career. I just worry about how he will feel about continuing to play if he can't perform at a high level any longer...especially if the FO decides to cut thier losses and head into rebuilding mode.

Even though I don't agree with it, I think that the Spurs will do what most people here think they will do...re-sign Manu, bring over Splitter, draft someone who they think can help in the first round and go once more unto the breach. I guess if they don't succeed they still have what Whisky Dog mentioned...which is a couple of big expiring deals that they can use for prospects and future draft picks.

[all_heart]

Duncan is going anywhere, he doesn't want to, Spurs don't want him to go anywhere, why would another team take on his contract with only 2 yrs left max. It's not like we are talking Duncan of 2005.

I still say we need to re-sign Manu, let Mason walk and trade TP. Trade TP for a legit NBA proven big man, somebody that has a low post game that is not 30 yet. Even if we need to include Blair, I love Blair he's got an excellent future, but he's a bit undersized, but if it brings another 7 footer that can help TD, I'll be for it. Lakers will be tough to beat with their size and F'kn Kobe.

[Xevious]

So who's expiring this offseason? Ginobili, Mason, Bonner, Mahinmi, and Bogans? Then of course, Fin's salary comes off the books.

Ginobili is (hopefully) the only one of those guys that gets resigned, which will put the team right back into the luxury tax if Jefferson is still around. Then we'd still need one more big and a wing to have a ten-man rotation. Question is, how much more money is Holt willing to spend to chase this last title?

[ohmwrecker]

Duncan is not done. He actually looked pretty springy and agressive in that first half. Dude is tired. He carried this team the first half of the season when Tony and Manu were not contributing at a high level and the rest of the team was either new to the system or just playing horribly. This is just another reactionary thread started by another doomsday defeatist with nothing positive or constructive to say. I am going to choose to believe that this team is the one that just beat the Cavs and the Celtics and I am not going to let a disappointing loss to the Nets make me give up on my team.

[benefactor]

Duncan is not done. He actually looked pretty springy and agressive in that first half. Dude is tired. He carried this team the first half of the season when Tony and Manu were not contributing at a high level and the rest of the team was either new to the system or just playing horribly. This is just another reactionary thread started by another doomsday defeatist with nothing positive or constructive to say. I am going to choose to believe that this team is the one that just beat the Cavs and the Celtics and I am not going to let a disappointing loss to the Nets make me give up on my team.

The Spurs have had a good month all things considered, but Duncan has only scored over 20 twice and has only had THREE double digit rebounding games. Instead of strengthening he is declining quickly. Believe me, I want him to prove me wrong...but I just don't see it happening.


And what is all this about Duncan being tired? Bruno said it best...Pop limited his minutes more than ever and he is still looking like he's played 40 minutes a night since the beginning of the year.

:wakeup

[Cane]

benefactor is looking like an attention whoring idiot, this is the busiest part of the Spurs schedule and Duncan still looks good defensively and rebounding wise. No amount of resting would've made an old and high mileage big not feel fatigue under these circumstances. The rest earlier in the season was to prevent injury which seems to be working.

[VBM]

I wonder if Timmy is focused on his legacy like Shaq is in regards to titles. If Kobe ends up with more rings than him, it's one thing (dif. positions, dif. comparisons). Shaq and Duncan are from the same era, and if the Cavs win a ring this season, I think it'll be that much more important to Timmy to hold off on rebuilding...

[benefactor]

benefactor is looking like an attention whoring idiot, this is the busiest part of the Spurs schedule and Duncan still looks good defensively and rebounding wise. No amount of resting would've made an old and high mileage big not feel fatigue under these circumstances. The rest earlier in the season was to prevent injury which seems to be working.
I actually like realist over attenion whoring idiot, but whatever makes your hair blow back.

[Cane]

I actually like realist over attenion whoring idiot, but whatever makes your hair blow back.

Does your reality acknowledge that this has been one of the busiest and most demanding schedules the Spurs and Duncan have seen in their career? Duncan has been underpar offensively but just about everything else he's still pretty good. He said he's feeling fine, he's just tired from the usual wear and tear from the NBA season.

"Is there really any point in trying to reload this summer" = attention whoring troll bait

[benefactor]

Does your reality acknowledge that this has been one of the busiest and most demanding schedules the Spurs and Duncan have seen in their career?

It's 82 games...just like last year and every year before that. Did I mention his minutes have been the least he has played in his entire career?


Duncan has been underpar offensively but just about everything else he's still pretty good. He said he's feeling fine, he's just tired from the usual wear and tear from the NBA season.

Go count the double/double's in January and February. Now count the double/double's in March(Hint: Scoring is not where the double digits are missing).


"Is there really any point in trying to reload this summer" = attention whoring troll bait
No, it's an opinion. It's one that says you can blow sunshine up your own ass and everyone else around you all you want, but don't come back here with an emofest when it all comes crashing down.

[Cane]

It's 82 games...just like last year and every year before that. Did I mention his minutes have been the least he has played in his entire career?

Are you just being stupid to make your poor argument look stronger? Look at how many games the Spurs have been playing recently, the strength of those teams, and the amount of back to backs. Show me a stretch in any season that is as or more difficult than the one the Spurs have faced and still are.



No, it's an opinion.

Its dumbass trolling to suggest that the Spurs should buyout Duncan or to say that he's done to the point where the Spurs should just lay over and give up entirely. And yea that is an "opinion" I suppose.


It's one that says you can blow sunshine up your own ass and everyone else around you all you want, but don't come back here with an emofest when it all comes crashing down.

This thread = emofest. From the OP: "What the point in trying again?" God damn thats some loser bullshit.

[Cane]

this is just such a stupid, pessimistic thread. Probably the most bafflingly stupid i've read on st in recent memory.

I can't get over why anyone would want to give up on a team that has three top-5 players at their respective positions, much less right after a loss to nj, in which they could've won if manu played.

Manu is playing like the second best sg in the league, and tp was considered top-3 last year, and an mvp candidate. They both score at an amazingly goof rate - probably the best for their position.
And duncan is still a top-5 pf.

This team just beat the best team in the league, a great team in boston, when toe-to-toe with atlanta on their court, and were in it against la for much of the 4th - all without a player many consider to be the best on this team in tp.

Christ's sake.

+2

[benefactor]

Are you just being stupid to make your poor argument look stronger? Look at how many games the Spurs have been playing recently, the strength of those teams, and the amount of back to backs. Show me a stretch in any season that is as or more difficult than the one the Spurs have faced and still are.

Go back to the beginning of the month and look at the game through the 17th. There is only one back to back. Now tell me how many double digit rebounding games he had in that stretch.

All in all it just a cop out. The fact remains that he has played less minutes and is still showing signs of running out of gas late in the season.


Its dumbass trolling to suggest that the Spurs should buyout Duncan or to say that he's done to the point where the Spurs should just lay over and give up entirely. And yea that is an "opinion" I suppose.

There is a time when giving up and starting over is necessary. Teams that don't look like Utah did in the early 2000's...and that's where the Spurs are headed. I'm not suggesting anything that hasn't been done many times in NBA history.

[Muser]

Why are people against rebuilding? To become serious contenders again we need a serious talent infusion and that just isn't happening.

[Cane]

Go back to the beginning of the month and look at the game through the 17th. There is only one back to back. Now tell me how many double digit rebounding games he had in that stretch.

All in all it just a cop out. The fact remains that he has played less minutes and is still showing signs of running out of gas late in the season.


Where did I say he had double digit rebounding games? I said he still looks good on that end, his offense and minutes have been his biggest problems when it comes to stats. Lets not forget that earlier in the season Duncan set a career high in rebounding and almost met it again shortly after.

Cop-out? Why disregard how difficult of a stretch the Spurs have had? They probably had the most difficult amount of games in this last stretch of the season. Probably one of the most difficult schedules any NBA team has seen.

To not expect Duncan to start falling off during this stretch given his injury history, mileage, and age is simply rediculous especially with Parker and Ginobli out.


Go back to the beginning of the month and look at the game through the 17th. There is only one back to back.

Why the hell stop at the 17th? There's been two back to backs in the month of March and a lot of the other games were tightly packed and against good to great teams.



There is a time when giving up and starting over is necessary. Teams that don't look like Utah did in the early 2000's...and that's where the Spurs are headed.

This isn't Utah in the early 2000's.


I'm not suggesting anything that hasn't been done many times in NBA history.

Actually I think you are. What other team with as much talent as this team with guys still playing well actually bought out their franchise player who was considered the best at his position?

[benefactor]

Strong start to April. 23/8 in 24 minutes. Here's to Timmy proving me wrong.
:toast