Big adjustment Pop needs to make going into game 3

[MaNu4Tres]

As you know Spurs were within margin to take to lead in the 4th quarter but the Suns prevailed in each of the first 2 games..

People want to point out Spurs need Manu to put up more points, or that Spurs need more 3 point shooters. I disagree it comes down to something more simple.

In both games Spurs closed out each of them by going small. And low and behold Spurs were unable to get a stop.

Suns repeatedly ran the Nash/Amare pick and roll every time down the floor possession after possession, pulling the Spurs' aged All-NBA defender away from the basket. This left the lane vulnerable to Amare's swift roll to the basket, which lead to Amare getting fouled, Amare getting a layup/dunk or Nash laying the ball up.

Spurs need McDyess in the game guarding Amare in the scenario, because for one he is more agile and effective than Duncan to hedge and recover more efficiently and it allows Duncan to play the help side role that has earned him All-Defensive honors year after year.

This slight adjustment needs to be made if Spurs want to be able to get stops down the stretch. IMO

NOTE: Posted later thanks to Spursfanfromafar finding this video this morning

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http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15752/has-tim-duncan-become-a-defensive-liability

[Josepatches_]

We can live with Amare (23 points 6-15) and Nash (6 assist & 5 TO)

It wasn't the key in game 2

[MaNu4Tres]

We can live with Amare (23 points 6-15) and Nash (6 assist & 5 TO)

It wasn't the key in game 2

In the 4th quarter Spurs were unable to stop the Amare/Nash pick and roll. Whether it was Amare getting fouled, Nash laying the ball up, or our wings from the weak side cheating blatantly, making an emphasis to stop Amare's roll, which made the rotations late to the shooters.

I'm not trying to point out the whole game. I'm pointing out the last 6-7 minutes of the 4th quarter.

Spurs were unable to get a stop and the beginning of each possession by the Suns was initiated by the Amare/Nash pick and roll taking Tim away from the basket.

[Spursfanfromafar]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15752/has-tim-duncan-become-a-defensive-liability only buttresses your argument.

[MaNu4Tres]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/15752/has-tim-duncan-become-a-defensive-liability only buttresses your argument.

Didn't see that thank you Spursfanfromafar :tu


That is exactly my point.

[ploto]

I really do not think it is so much Duncan being a liability because that implies that someone else on the team would better. Duncan is both helping out Parker (or Hill) and trying to rotate back to guard Amare by himself without anyone rotating over to help him. Dice would not be better at this scenario. Whomever is guarding Nash needs to put better defensive pressure on him in the first place.

[ManuTastic]

While I agree that the Nash-Amare pick-n-roll is killing us, and that we are desperate for some 3-pt shooting, I also need to point out that in the past we used to hang a bunch of stupid fouls on Amare and make him leave the game for extended periods. Amare is great on offense, but he's not a great defender or shot-blocker--that's a big point of weakness, since the suns have no other great interior defenders or shot-blockers either. Here as against Dallas, the goal must be to penetrate, penetrate, penetrate. Penetration leads to fouls and and-ones, which look like the only 3-pt plays we'll be getting this series. Tony, Manu, and Jefferson, I'm looking directly at you here. And guess what, that's what you all do!

While I do absolutely expect a monster win for SA tonight (20+ pts), if they don't remember to penetrate constantly from here on out, Suns will take this series for sure.

[SenorSpur]

Pop should realize that he's not going to out-small the Suns. By closing out the game with a small lineup, he's playing into their hands. The Spurs need to attack their weakest defensive links - Amare and Nash.

[dreamcastrocks]

Pop should realize that he's not going to out-small the Suns. By closing out the game with a small lineup, he's playing into their hands. The Spurs need to attack their weakest defensive links - Amare and Nash.

The hope that small ball brought Pop at the beginning of the 4th Quarter in Game 1 was a false positive. The Spurs erased a 10 point lead going into the 4th quarter in just a few minutes by using small ball.

[temujin]

Zone defense = no high pick and roll.
Keep Duncan inside.
Let Amare beat you on midrange jumpers, if he can.

[MaNu4Tres]

Zone defense = no high pick and roll.
Keep Duncan inside.
Let Amare beat you on midrange jumpers, if he can.

No chance on happening.

Pop hates the zone.

[bigdog]

I highly doubt Pop would go with a zone. but hey, that might help in guarding the Nash-Amare pick and roll. They just have to play better defense. Nash is dancing around and hitting open guys and Nash is getting to the basket, which should never happen. Then you have the pick and roll, where Amare will kill you or Nash could hit a jumper. That, to me, is the only problems.

[dreamcastrocks]

I highly doubt Pop would go with a zone. but hey, that might help in guarding the Nash-Amare pick and roll. They just have to play better defense. Nash is dancing around and hitting open guys and Nash is getting to the basket, which should never happen. Then you have the pick and roll, where Amare will kill you or Nash could hit a jumper. That, to me, is the only problems.

Suns have killed teams playing zone against them. You play zone against teams that don't shoot the 3 pointer well, essentially forcing them to shoot. Phoenix would have no problem with Nash, Richardson, Frye, and Dudley shooting the open 3's that the zone would bring.

[polandprzem]

McDyess covers Amare and then Tim must to go outside to cover Frye.
Not very good matchup when Timmy must to go and defend permieter.


Frankly I don't know what a big adjustments there are for the spurs to make.
They need to play better and execute better. Or making some new set plays
Big adjustments are for example changing Bowen from guarding paul to Stojakovic
That change one of the most important concepts Hornets had.

[dreamcastrocks]

McDyess covers Amare and then Tim must to go outside to cover Frye.
Not very good matchup when Timmy must to go and defend permieter.


Frankly I don't know what a big adjustments there are for the spurs to make.
They need to play better and execute better. Or making some new set plays
Big adjustments are for example changing Bowen from guarding paul to Stojakovic
That change one of the most important concepts Hornets had.

If Tim guards Frye on the perimeter, the Suns will gladly take Amare 1-on-1 vs McDyess any day of the week. Definitely pick your poison. If I am the Spurs, I dare Frye to beat us, especially when he is on the road. He shoots 7 or 8% worse on the road this year. For a while, it was 20% difference.

[MaNu4Tres]

McDyess covers Amare and then Tim must to go outside to cover Frye.
Not very good matchup when Timmy must to go and defend permieter.




Much rather have Frye take a semi-contested 3 than Amare or Nash have free easy look at point blank range.

[Obstructed_View]

Gee, you'd think the Spurs would have seen a Suns offense that runs the pick and roll with Nash and Amare surrounded by three point shooters.

[TampaDude]

Gee, you'd think the Spurs would have seen a Suns offense that runs the pick and roll with Nash and Amare surrounded by three point shooters.

+1 It's not like this is something new to Pop. :lol

[polandprzem]

I don't know if it's better to have duncan running 25ft out from the basket.
1. That's no comfort zone for Tim
2. Our defense gets lost
3. Tim is our best rebounder/ and with rebs we had quite big problems those two games when we lost

[dreamcastrocks]

Much rather have Frye take a semi-contested 3 than Amare or Nash have free easy look at point blank range.


I don't know if it's better to have duncan running 25ft out from the basket.
1. That's no comfort zone for Tim
2. Our defense gets lost
3. Tim is our best rebounder/ and with rebs we had quite big problems those two games when we lost

Exactly. If you get beat by Frye, sobeit. You can't take the interior defense and rebounding away from the perimeter.

[dreamcastrocks]

Gee, you'd think the Spurs would have seen a Suns offense that runs the pick and roll with Nash and Amare surrounded by three point shooters.


+1 It's not like this is something new to Pop. :lol

:lol

Nash is 100x the passer that Parker is in the P&R, and that's the problem that you have defending it. He makes passes that most players wouldn't even attempt.

[polandprzem]

:lol

Nash is 100x the passer that Parker is in the P&R, and that's the problem that you have defending it. He makes passes that most players wouldn't even attempt.

Nash is so good at it becuse he is a shooter as well. many time he can fake defenders shooting not shooting passing not passing. And he can pass when the play seems to be over. Then all of sudden Suns have a passing lane that ends with points for them.

[sananspursfan21]

seriously, DEATH TO THE PICK'N'ROLL!!!!!

[Agloco]

You've gotta turn Nash into a scorer......

Go under that pick every time.

[RiverwalkParade]

You've gotta turn Nash into a scorer......

Go under that pick every time.

I like this theory. Nash under ten assists usually means a loss for PHX. Go under, stay at home on the other guys, and make Nash knock jump shots all night long. I know he's a good shooter, but it keeps the other guys out of rhythm and makes Nash play out of his comfort zone and keeps him out of the paint.

[Blackjack]

In the 4th quarter Spurs were unable to stop the Amare/Nash pick and roll. Whether it was Amare getting fouled, Nash laying the ball up, or our wings from the weak side cheating blatantly, making an emphasis to stop Amare's roll, which made the rotations late to the shooters.

I'm not trying to point out the whole game. I'm pointing out the last 6-7 minutes of the 4th quarter.

Spurs were unable to get a stop and the beginning of each possession by the Suns was initiated by the Amare/Nash pick and roll taking Tim away from the basket.

With the Spurs at home, this definitely has merit; Frye's going to have to prove he can hit those big shots on the road. So I'd definitely lean towards seeing more of this to close games, and I'd definitely like to see more of 'Dyess -- it's death to try and out-small Phoenix ... I'd rather they play their best players late (which 'Dyess has proven to be in these playoffs).

It's pick-your-poison, as you and timvp discussed in the other thread, but it is what it is. At home, I'd rather make Frye beat me (and you could change a defensive rotation or a make a tweak in the last 6-minutes to your defensive play-call that could bring a small over to get Frye off the line -- whom you rotate off of would be determined by the lowest percentage shooter on the floor or the success they had during the game).

[temujin]

No chance on happening.

Pop hates the zone.

You can tell that by the pathetic way the Spurs attacked the mediocre 2-3 of the Mavs. That almost cost G3.

Seriously I think that would work, expecially with manu and Hill chasing the guards and Amare.

[MaNu4Tres]

With the Spurs at home, this definitely has merit; Frye's going to have to prove he can hit those big shots on the road. So I'd definitely lean towards seeing more of this to close games, and I'd definitely like to see more of 'Dyess -- it's death to try and out-small Phoenix ... I'd rather they play their best players late (which 'Dyess has proven to be in these playoffs).

It's pick-your-poison, as you and timvp discussed in the other thread, but it is what it is. At home, I'd rather make Frye beat me (and you could change a defensive rotation or a make a tweak in the last 6-minutes to your defensive play-call that could bring a small over to get Frye off the line -- whom you rotate off of would be determined by the lowest percentage shooter on the floor or the success they had during the game).

Even if Frye is on the floor with Amare, Hill, Nash, Richardson. Dice could guard Amare in the bread and butter that is the Nash/Amare pick and roll. Tim could guard Hill that way Tim doesn't have to close out as hard to the 3 point line as if he would checking Frye. Spurs could get away with Jefferson guarding Frye and Jefferson can close out to Frye faster and get there to contest more adequately than Duncan would.

If Suns were to try to exploit the Hill match up on Duncan so be it. I'll take Hill attempting 15-20 foot hesitation jumpers slightly contested by Tim than the latter.

[Blackjack]

Even if Frye is on the floor with Amare, Hill, Nash, Richardson. Dice could guard Amare in the bread and butter that is the Nash/Amare pick and roll. Tim could guard Hill that way Tim doesn't have to close out as hard to the 3 point line as if he would checking Frye. Spurs could get away with Jefferson guarding Frye and Jefferson can close out to Frye faster and get there to contest more adequately than Duncan would.

If Suns were to try to exploit the Hill match up on Duncan so be it. I'll take Hill attempting 15-20 foot hesitation jumpers slightly contested by Tim than the latter.

Or that ... I agree. :tu (I just woke up from a nap before posting and wasn't exactly seeing the whole picture. :lol)

Grant is absolutely money when he's able to take a couple of attack dribbles and pull up for the midrange jumper but I'd venture to say he's not as good of a shooter off the catch-and-shoot (even if he's still pretty good from the midrange). Regardless, I'd much rather that than a Nash layup, Amar'e dunk or an unaltered (not uncontested ... because just getting in the picture of a 6-10 three-point shooter doesn't mean a whole lot) three from Frye in the guts of a game.

But if the Spurs are up 1 and the Spurs have to choose between Hill or Frye hitting their respective shot in the clutch, I'd definitely take my chances with Frye over Hill. Again, he's going to have to prove that he can replicate the confidence to be a dead-eye on the road; I know Hill has what it takes.

[Bender]

I just woke up from a nap...
you take naps?

[Blackjack]

you take naps?

Today I did. I'd recommend it, too, if I had planned it (since it was probably more classifiable in the 'passing out' department).

[polandprzem]

What's the idea now?

Play TD at the point?

[MaNu4Tres]

What's the idea now?

Play TD at the point?


Where does it say switch the pick and rolls?

Cute try though.

[polandprzem]

it's still the effect of forcing Tim to defend perimeter guys

[MaNu4Tres]

it's still the effect of forcing Tim to defend perimeter guys

Never did it say for Tim to guard the point guards.

Nice try again.