Dallas Mavericks off-season thread

[dbestpro]

Dampier will be of no interest to Atlanta. Give them Butler and Beaubois and you make get a deal. Then Johnson can become the new Kidd.

Moving Dampier will only benefit a team that wants to get under the luxury tax. That cuts out most of the big time free agents.

[Findog]

Joe Johnson can help this team way more than Dampier can. I'm not about to argue that he isn't a flawed player, but if we can get him for less than the max, I'm all for it.

[Findog]

Dampier will be of no interest to Atlanta.

No, but his contract will be.

[clambake]

if roddy is involved with a joe johnson trade.........a riot should ensue.

[Findog]

Yup, this is the realistic approach, the only drawback for you guys is if Roddy is involved in the trade.

Johnson is 29, so obviously his best days are behind him. It's really hard to gauge Roddy's potential. Compare his rookie stats to those of Marquis Daniels and tell me who had the better rookie campaign. I can see Roddy blossoming into an All-Star caliber player, but I can also see him being nothing more than a serviceable rotation player like Daniels or (once upon a time) Barbosa.

I think the Mavs would want to err on the side of caution when it comes to Roddy - youth, athleticism and an ability to penetrate into the lane are things the Mavs have been in short supply.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Johnson is 29, so obviously his best days are behind him. It's really hard to gauge Roddy's potential. Compare his rookie stats to those of Marquis Daniels and tell me who had the better rookie campaign. I can see Roddy blossoming into an All-Star caliber player, but I can also see him being nothing more than a serviceable rotation player like Daniels or (once upon a time) Barbosa.

I think the Mavs would want to err on the side of caution when it comes to Roddy - youth, athleticism and an ability to penetrate into the lane are things the Mavs have been in short supply.


The thing about Roddy is he's barely 6 feet tall. You can't expect someone like Roddy to be able to create space for himself and get a quality shot off when the game is on the line. Joe Johnson has a great mid range game so he doesn't need a small ball lineup creating space for him and he can get quality shots late in close games. As much as Parker has always been important to the Spurs, it was Manu Ginobili taking all the big shots for San Antonio when they were winning championships. I'm basically saying that trading Roddy for JJ is a gamble Dallas should make.

[clambake]

no

[clambake]

joe gettin hyped up just like rashard.

[monosylab1k]

The thing about Roddy is he's barely 6 feet tall.

No he's not, he's 6-2.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

No he's not, he's 6-2.


Whatever, my point is you can't expect someone in a point guard's body to be your main perimeter threat.

[monosylab1k]

Whatever, my point is you can't expect someone in a point guard's body to be your main perimeter threat.

Pistons did just fine with Isiah/Dumars.

[sribb43]

If Roddy is the key to getting Johnson, then I say no thanks. S&T Haywood bring in JJ then ship Damp for a big

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Pistons did just fine with Isiah/Dumars.


lol siting an example over 20 years old, who has done it since then?

PS - If Dallas ever plays the defense Detroit did back then, you're right, Roddy can be their main perimeter threat.

[monosylab1k]

lol siting an example over 20 years old, who has done it since then?

It's been done.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I agree with the trade for Johnson. Especially if it includes Dampier.
Is there any real chance that Dirk doesn't re-sign?

[monosylab1k]

lol @ sunfan, his team one year removed from missing the playoffs completely, they fluke their way into a WCF appearance and suddenly he has every answer for the Mavs.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lol @ sunfan, his team one year removed from missing the playoffs completely, they fluke their way into a WCF appearance and suddenly he has every answer for the Mavs.


lol acting like I'm trying to talk shit about the Mavs or implying that I think I know more because the Suns made the WCF. ST is dead right now and this is the best discussion going on.

[clambake]

why would the mavs even consider getting rid of their one player with lightning speed?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

It's been done.


Answer this question:

Do you think there is a realistic chance that Dallas can be the first team since the late 80's Detroit Pistons to win a championship with a point guard as their main perimeter scoring threat? I'm not trying to talk shit about Dallas here, I'd say the same thing about any other team.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Tbh I think DoK hates short people with a passion. He hates PGs, he hates short SGs, he hates short SFs.

???

I hate PGs because the point guard position is by far the least important position in basketball and people act like it's the key to winning championships.

[clambake]

Tbh I think DoK hates short people with a passion. He hates PGs, he hates short SGs, he hates short SFs.

But he's right. JJ is a better option for Dallas than Roddy right now.

no way.

[clambake]

joe would look even slower than he does already if he were a mav.

[BUMP]

As long as the Lakers are still playing basketball with the roster they have now, there is no answer.

[sribb43]

You have to like the prospects of a pick n roll/pop with Dirk and JOhnson. A true SG with handles that can shoot anywhere on the floor. How do you guard that. I know he is about to turn 30 soon but that shit won't matter a few years from now when Dirk is 36-37

However, getting JJ for me depends what it takes to get him. Fuck the mavs for signing Marion to that shit deal. I would love the combo of JJ/Butler at the. 2 and 3 spot but the Matrix i doubt could be moved

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Joe Johnson is a better option than Roddy. Roddy is lightning quick and has somewhat of a shot, but JJ's midrange game plows over Roddys quick game.


Tbh Roddy has a pretty good shot but I doubt he can create space for himself and shoot off the dribble like JJ can.

Right now, LA is the team everyone else in the West should be trying to plan against, and how effective is Roddy's quickness gonna be in the half court against LA? It'll be the same as Russell Westbrook and Rajon Rondo having no trouble getting into the paint but then struggling to finish over trees. Joe Johnson's midrange game won't get weakened by all the length LA has in the paint. If any team is gonna beat LA it will be with a player who can get himself quality mid range shots.

[clambake]

joe johnson as the missing piece to contending against the lakers?

get real.

[Mavs_man_41]

joe johnson as the missing piece to contending against the lakers?

get real.

exactly, joe johnson doesn't give us what we would need. pretty much only wade or james does. it was time to rebuild after 2007.

[clambake]

exactly, joe johnson doesn't give us what we would need. pretty much only wade or james does. it was time to rebuild after 2007.

well, roddy should be a lock in any plans for the mavs. the idea of trading him for something that makes you even slower, is nuts.

[Mavs_man_41]

yeah if we give up roddy then i just renounce being a mav fan or even an nba fan and just go watch ncaa. i'm tired of the mavs pathetic failures combined with the idea of a somewhat rigged league, i think i need a break.

[BUMP]

Seriously they need to just face the music and start over. With the Lakers still dominating, and the possibility of two super teams out East, we have a less than 0% chance at winning it all.

As it stands we're probably like the 7-8th best team in the NBA and there's gonna be a HUGE gap between 3 and 4. As a Mavs fan we've already been close to the top, so if our team can't realistically win a championship with this same core we need to start over.

It would be one thing if we were a team like Charlotte and we were on the rise but we are obviously on the decline and we're just holding out hope that just isn't realistic anymore.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

joe johnson as the missing piece to contending against the lakers?

get real.


He'd do more to beat the Lakers than Roddy Beaubois would.

[monosylab1k]

No he's not. I've stood next to him. I am 6 feet tall and he was barely an inch taller, if that.

Yeah but did he give you any fashion advice? How did his facial features compare to yours?

[Mavs_man_41]

Yeah but did he give you any fashion advice? How did his facial features compare to yours?

:lmao

[BUMP]

He'd do more to beat the Lakers than Roddy Beaubois would.

We're not beating the Lakers. Period. Anything that stunts Beaubois' growth as a player at this point should not even be considered

[monosylab1k]

Seriously they need to just face the music and start over. With the Lakers still dominating, and the possibility of two super teams out East, we have a less than 0% chance at winning it all.

As it stands we're probably like the 7-8th best team in the NBA and there's gonna be a HUGE gap between 3 and 4. As a Mavs fan we've already been close to the top, so if our team can't realistically win a championship with this same core we need to start over.

It would be one thing if we were a team like Charlotte and we were on the rise but we are obviously on the decline and we're just holding out hope that just isn't realistic anymore.

So we can pencil you in as a dumbfuck who wants to see the Mavs suck for a decade?

I'm fucking sick of these retarded Mavs fans who didn't even follow the team in the 90's thinking that blowing it up is a good option. Blowing it up doesn't guarantee that a solid rebuilding process will happen. Blowing it up just guarantees your team will suck for an extended period, and if you're lucky it won't be more than 3-4 years.

If you actually followed the Mavericks through the 90's there's no way in hell you want to see them blow this up. This is heaven compared to that era.

[Mavs_man_41]

So we can pencil you in as a dumbfuck who wants to see the Mavs suck for a decade?

I'm fucking sick of these retarded Mavs fans who didn't even follow the team in the 90's thinking that blowing it up is a good option. Blowing it up doesn't guarantee that a solid rebuilding process will happen. Blowing it up just guarantees your team will suck for an extended period, and if you're lucky it won't be more than 3-4 years.

If you actually followed the Mavericks through the 90's there's no way in hell you want to see them blow this up. This is heaven compared to that era.

then can i pencil you in as a dumbfuck who's completely happy and content with mediocrity? cuz that's all you're gonna get with your gameplan.

Savvy?

[monosylab1k]

then can i pencil you in as a dumbfuck who's completely happy and content with mediocrity? cuz that's all you're gonna get with your gameplan.

Savvy?

You have no fucking clue what mediocrity actually is, you spoiled ass post-2000 Mavs fan.

[Mavs_man_41]

I'm fucking sick of these retarded Mavs fans

funny, that's the first thing i think of when i log on spurstalk. mav fans are funny guys, but have a warped sense of basketball knowledge from following this team for so long.

[clambake]

He'd do more to beat the Lakers than Roddy Beaubois would.

roddy's speed does more for other mavs.

joe's speed doesn't. haven't we seen enough of this?

[monosylab1k]

28, 22, 11, 13, 36, 26, 24, 20, 19, 40

That's the Mavs win totals each year in the 90's.

If you have a hard-on for those win totals, by all means, advocate blowing this team up.

[Mavs_man_41]

You have no fucking clue what mediocrity actually is, you spoiled ass post-2000 Mavs fan.

wouldn't that be worse than mediocrity? THIS is mediocrity. and yeah i'm not old enough to have followed them throughout the entire 90's, but i was a fan for a few of those pathetic seasons, since about 96-97. Before Dirk at least, before winning seasons, etc so get off your high horse.

[Findog]

So we can pencil you in as a dumbfuck who wants to see the Mavs suck for a decade?

I'm fucking sick of these retarded Mavs fans who didn't even follow the team in the 90's thinking that blowing it up is a good option. Blowing it up doesn't guarantee that a solid rebuilding process will happen. Blowing it up just guarantees your team will suck for an extended period, and if you're lucky it won't be more than 3-4 years.

If you actually followed the Mavericks through the 90's there's no way in hell you want to see them blow this up. This is heaven compared to that era.

I'm not in any hurry to be bad. Am I optimistic that we can still win a title with Dirk as our best player, given the current composition of the Lakers roster and the Magic, LeBron's team (whoever that ends up being), Celtics and a possibly resurgent Heat team in the East? Nope, not at all. But you keep trying, and you ride that era out as long as possible. Think Hakeem dominating for years while the Rockets were pretenders. Think David Robinson being a perennial All Star while the Spurs seemingly were a second-round exit year after year. Think Kobe stuck on a Lakers team going nowhere after Shaq was traded.

Maybe at some point the Mavs get a stroke of luck and a really good player falls into their lap (Spurs drafting Duncan, Lakers getting Gasol). The way our roster is right now, we're good but not great. Which is where the Robinson Spurs and pre-Gasol Lakers were at. Rebuilding is not a guarantee of anything. The Blazers and ex-Sonics got lucky with Roy and Durant, but the Kings, Wolves and Clippers are in the lottery year after year. I don't see the logic in "blowing things up."

[Mavs_man_41]

28, 22, 11, 13, 36, 26, 24, 20, 19, 40

That's the Mavs win totals each year in the 90's.

If you have a hard-on for those win totals, by all means, advocate blowing this team up.

unless we do something, we are only going to slowly descend down the slippery slope into these types of win totals. why prolong the inevitable? dirk is going to be old before you know it, and kidd is going to be retired in a couple of years. we need to start planning for the future so we can be good again as soon as possible. now i'm not saying go ahead and trade everyone for picks and suck next season, but any plans involving moving Roddy, our only future piece, are retarded.

[Findog]

wouldn't that be worse than mediocrity? THIS is mediocrity. and yeah i'm not old enough to have followed them throughout the entire 90's, but i was a fan for a few of those pathetic seasons, since about 96-97. Before Dirk at least, before winning seasons, etc so get off your high horse.

Mediocrity is 41-41, or thereabouts. Winning 50+ every year is not mediocrity. No Mavs fan I know is satisfied with winning 50 games and losing in the first round every year, but it beats the alternative of being a suck-ass team.

[clambake]

roddy for johnson is just a stupid move to make a move.

[Mavs_man_41]

Mediocrity is 41-41, or thereabouts. Winning 50+ every year is not mediocrity. No Mavs fan I know is satisfied with winning 50 games and losing in the first round every year, but it beats the alternative of being a suck-ass team.

don't look at it so black and white by just win totals. 41-41, 50-32, whatever. mediocrity to me means not sucking ass, yet having ABSOLUTELY NO SHOT at a championship, which is right where we are. kobe could fall out of bed and sprain his dick and be injured for life tomorrow and the mavs STILL wouldn't have a shot in hell at a title. we are a perennial first round exit team. that is as "mediocre" as it gets.

[Mavs_man_41]

now i'll agree that mav fans were spoiled back when we at least had an outside chance at a championship every year from about 2002-2007. but that window has closed, and although our yearly win totals are somewhat similar, it's just not the same because everyone knows that we have no shot at going all the way. none. nada. savvy?

[Findog]

don't look at it so black and white by just win totals. 41-41, 50-32, whatever. mediocrity is not sucking ass, yet having ABSOLUTELY NO SHOT at a championship, which is right where we are. kobe could fall out of bed and sprain his dick and be injured for life tomorrow and the mavs STILL wouldn't have a shot in hell at a title. we are a perennial first round exit team. that is as "mediocre" as it gets.

Go back to 1987. If you don't have Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal or Kobe Bryant, then you're not winning a championship. Those 8 guys have had a hand in like 22 out of the last 24 titles. Winning an NBA title is exceedingly hard. I'd rather be one of the top 8 teams in the league with a remote, outside shot at a title than no chance at all.

[Findog]

now i'll agree that mav fans were spoiled back when we at least had an outside chance at a championship every year from about 2002-2007. but that window has closed, and although our yearly win totals are somewhat similar, it's just not the same because everyone knows that we have no shot at going all the way. none. nada. savvy?

So the Mavs had a chance at a title in 2002, 2004 and 2005, but not now? Explain your logic.

[clambake]

i don't think its closed, but if you start making trades like roddy for johnson......you might as well brick it up.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

roddy's speed does more for other mavs.

joe's speed doesn't. haven't we seen enough of this?


Not sure what you mean here but really how important is having a ton speed and athleticism? Speed and athleticism can win a lot in the regular season but once you start playing elite defenses in the playoffs that rotate well and have length, that speed and athleticism becomes a lot less effective.

I'm not saying JJ guarantees a series win against the Lakers, it's just my opinion of all realistic things Dallas can do, Joe Johson + resigned Haywood + acquired Gortat gives them their best chance at beating LA, albeit it's not a great chance.

[clambake]

Not sure what you mean here but really how important is having a ton speed and athleticism? Speed and athleticism can win a lot in the regular season but once you start playing elite defenses in the playoffs that rotate well and have length, that speed and athleticism becomes a lot less effective.

I'm not saying JJ guarantees a series win against the Lakers, it's just my opinion of all realistic things Dallas can do, Joe Johson + resigned Haywood + acquired Gortat gives them their best chance at beating LA, albeit it's not a great chance.

the only problem i have with johnson is the idea that you give up roddy to get him.

don't get me wrong........the FO is stupid enough to do this.

[Mavs_man_41]

So the Mavs had a chance at a title in 2002, 2004 and 2005, but not now? Explain your logic.

we were just a better team during those years, and the current day lakers didn't exist, along with the super team that stern is about to create out east. those old teams took more of a load off dirk than his current supporting cast. nick van exel was capable of going off for 30+ any night and did it many times in the playoffs in his stint with us. Jet and Josh Howard used to be good players. for years now the team has just felt "out of sync."

[Findog]

we were just a better team during those years, and the current day lakers didn't exist, along with the super team that stern is about to create out east. those old teams took more of a load off dirk than his current supporting cast. nick van exel was capable of going off for 30+ any night and did it many times in the playoffs in his stint with us. Jet and Josh Howard used to be good players. for years now the team has just felt "out of sync."

The Mavs did not have a shot at winning a title in those years listed. They got dismantled by a Kings team in 2002 that went on to lose in the next round. Same thing in 2004. In 2005 they were decisively beaten by a Suns team that went on to lose in the next round. In 2003 and 2006 they came close with roster tweaks, not roster overhauls.

The Mavs have trade chips and assets to leverage in the hopes of getting better. Which incidentally is how the Lakers and Celtics managed to make themselves relevant again, as opposed to signing a marquee free agent. The Mavs are better off (and perhaps destined) to ride the Dirk Era to its conclusion like the Jazz did with Stockton and Malone.

[clambake]

The Mavs have trade chips and assets to leverage in the hopes of getting better. Which incidentally is how the Lakers and Celtics managed to make themselves relevant again, as opposed to signing a marquee free agent. The Mavs are better off (and perhaps destined) to ride the Dirk Era to its conclusion like the Jazz did with Stockton and Malone.

i'm with you on this, but, the idea that johnson is worth the max is crazy. and a s&t for him that includes roddy is crazy.

[Mavs_man_41]

The Mavs did not have a shot at winning a title in those years listed. They got dismantled by a Kings team in 2002 that went on to lose in the next round. Same thing in 2004. In 2005 they were decisively beaten by a Suns team that went on to lose in the next round. In 2003 and 2006 they came close with roster tweaks, not roster overhauls.

man stop painting things so black and white. we got beat by a kings team that rightfully won the damn championship in 2002 if not for stern and his collusion. in 2005 we lost to the suns, but once again you're taking it out of context. The suns, spurs, and mavs always had a 3 way battle in those years where the suns couldn't beat the spurs, but they owned us, and we matched up decently with the spurs while poorly with phoenix. The suns beating us and losing to the spurs in the next round was no surprise, it was expected because of the way the teams matched up. So we were just all of the sudden irrelevant and had no shot in 2005, but in 2006 were the favorites and (according to some opinions) screwed out of a title? cmon findog, get real.

[clambake]

oh, and i guarantee you that joe thinks he's max worthy.

[Findog]

man stop painting things so black and white. we got beat by a kings team that rightfully won the damn championship in 2002 if not for stern and his collusion. in 2005 we lost to the suns, but once again you're taking it out of context. The suns, spurs, and mavs always had a 3 way battle in those years where the suns couldn't beat the spurs, but they owned us, and we matched up decently with the spurs while poorly with phoenix. The suns beating us and losing to the spurs in the next round was no surprise, it was expected because of the way the teams matched up. So we were just all of the sudden irrelevant and had no shot in 2005, but in 2006 were the favorites and (according to some opinions) screwed out of a title? cmon findog, get real.

Should the Lakers have traded Kobe for picks, cash and a young player in 2007 since they were going nowhere and were a perennial first-round exit?

Should the Celtics have done the same with Paul Pierce?

[Mavs_man_41]

Should the Lakers have traded Kobe for picks, cash and a young player in 2007 since they were going nowhere and were a perennial first-round exit?

Should the Celtics have done the same with Paul Pierce?

if you're going to bring in the type of pieces needed to build a contender, then of course you do it. that's what those guys did. but sitting around with your thumb up your ass and doing NOTHING, or making half ass moves that don't change the end result (lol first round exit) is kind of pointless.

the mavs FO has a choice to make. either get on the ball and turn this ship around and put together a contender, or give up on the present and start making moves strictly planning for the future.

[Findog]

if you're going to bring in the type of pieces needed to build a contender, then of course you do it. that's what those guys did. but sitting around with your thumb up your ass and doing NOTHING, or making half ass moves that don't change the end result (lol first round exit) is kind of pointless.

And all you're doing is playing Monday Morning Quarterback. You've got an owner with deep pockets committed to improving the roster (bringing in Kidd, Butler and Haywood). We can argue the wisdom of those moves, but not the attempt to get better. I'd rather Cuban and Donnie keep taking swings instead of quitting. I'm not in any hurry to watch this team go 32-50.

[Mavs_man_41]

And all you're doing is playing Monday Morning Quarterback. You've got an owner with deep pockets committed to improving the roster (bringing in Kidd, Butler and Haywood). We can argue the wisdom of those moves, but not the attempt to get better. I'd rather Cuban and Donnie keep taking swings instead of quitting. I'm not in any hurry to watch this team go 32-50.

you keep holding out for some false hope that eventually they will get it right and bring in the right players to contend, but by then Dirk will be old and no longer the 3rd or 4th best player in the nba (or the best like he was in 2007) and it will be too late for him to carry a team.

i'm not saying that we go all crazy and blow it up and take joy in going 30-52, but all moves made need to be good for the future. no more sacrificing tomorrow to stay "mediocre" today. all i am saying is that i am against trades likes such as roddy for joe johnson which do nothing but maybe make us slightly better today (but still not nearly good enough) while destroying our future.

[clambake]

does nobody think other teams are interested in dirk?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

And all you're doing is playing Monday Morning Quarterback. You've got an owner with deep pockets committed to improving the roster (bringing in Kidd, Butler and Haywood). We can argue the wisdom of those moves, but not the attempt to get better. I'd rather Cuban and Donnie keep taking swings instead of quitting. I'm not in any hurry to watch this team go 32-50.


I think he's saying that Kidd, Butler and Haywood are half assed attempts at "taking swings". The problem is all they seem to do is beef up the role players around Dirk expecting him to go 2003 Duncan or 1994 Olajuwon carrying a supporting cast of role players to a title, when they should be looking to give Dirk all star level players to help.

[Mavs_man_41]

I think he's saying that Kidd, Butler and Haywood are half assed attempts at "taking swings". The problem is all they seem to do is beef up the role players around Dirk expecting him to go 2003 Duncan or 1994 Olajuwon carrying a supporting cast of role players to a title, when they should be looking to give Dirk all star level players to help.

why is it that DoK always gets it, while nobody else ever does? the way the IQ level of spurstalk has dropped in recent years is alarming..:wow

[Findog]

I think he's saying that Kidd, Butler and Haywood are half assed attempts at "taking swings". The problem is all they seem to do is beef up the role players around Dirk expecting him to go 2003 Duncan or 1994 Olajuwon carrying a supporting cast of role players to a title, when they should be looking to give Dirk all star level players to help.

Who says they're not trying to get those All Star level players? We have a report out in ESPN today that says they're trying to acquire Joe Johnson. Does that not count as an All Star level player? They reportedly turned down Deng for Damp's contract. Does that not count as refusing to settle for another role player?

It's easy to say that Kidd, Butler and Haywood were "half-assed" attempts to get better. We can debate the wisdom of the Kidd trade until the cows come home, but there was nothing "half-assed" to me about trading Josh Howard and Drew Gooden for Butler/Haywood.

I want my team to do everything in its power to maximize the results of the Dirk Era....then we can rebuild when he's done.

[Mavs_man_41]

Who says they're not trying to get those All Star level players? We have a report out in ESPN today that says they're trying to acquire Joe Johnson. Does that not count as an All Star level player? They reportedly turned down Deng for Damp's contract. Does that not count as refusing to settle for another role player?

It's easy to say that Kidd, Butler and Haywood were "half-assed" attempts to get better. We can debate the wisdom of the Kidd trade until the cows come home, but there was nothing "half-assed" to me about trading Josh Howard and Drew Gooden for Butler/Haywood.

quit being stubborn and just answer one question. do you support trading roddy to bring in joe fucking johnson? here comes the real IQ test.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I just don't get why everyone says "Look what Boston and LA did!" (Suns fans do this a ton) and never question how willing their front office is to go out and get KG or Pau Gasol. After 2007, the Suns shoulda been willing to trade anyone not named Steve Nash and the Mavs shoulda been willing to trade anyone not named Dirk Nowitzki to get KG, yet neither team did. After each team's core peaked in 2007 and it became obvious they would need improvements to stay in contention, each front office has been perfectly content with a 50 win team that doesn't have much of a chance at winning it.

[Findog]

quit being stubborn and just answer one question. do you support trading roddy to bring in joe fucking johnson? here comes the real IQ test.

I'd be inclined to turn it down, but stop acting like Roddy is the second coming of Michael Jordan. He had about the same impact his rookie season as Marquis Daniels. Compare their rookie stats and tell me who was better. I like Roddy, but it's defensible either way to trade him for Johnson...or not.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

quit being stubborn and just answer one question. do you support trading roddy to bring in joe fucking johnson? here comes the real IQ test.

That would actually be a decent trade for Dallas since JJ would be their best post-2007 attempt at giving Dirk capable help. What would you rather your team do, make a gamble like that and fill the hole Dallas has had at shooting guard since Michael Finley, or listen to a press conference about how no off season moves are needed because "the growth of Roddy Beaubois and the improved team chemistry" will be the difference maker this year?

I know personally, I'm sick and tired of the Suns doing nothing in the off season and then reading an article written by someone wrapped around Sarver's thumb about how they didn't need roster improvements because Barbosa and Diaw would improve while Amare would start playing defense.

[Findog]

I just don't get why everyone says "Look what Boston and LA did!" (Suns fans do this a ton) and never question how willing their front office is to go out and get KG or Pau Gasol. After 2007, the Suns shoulda been willing to trade anyone not named Steve Nash and the Mavs shoulda been willing to trade anyone not named Dirk Nowitzki to get KG, yet neither team did.

In the case of the Suns, my understanding is that they DID offer Amare for KG and there were two problems. First, KG was not interested in going to Phoenix if it meant he didn't get to play with Amare (meaning the Suns would've had trouble securing an extension from him) and second, McHale was more impressed with Al Jefferson than Amare. So I have a hard time faulting Phoenix for not landing KG. The Mavs didn't have an offer that trumped a package centered around Jefferson, and that along with McHale's Boston ties means I have a hard time faulting either the Suns or Mavs for not getting him. And we can all agree that the Lakers benefited from collusion (and the appeal of Kwame Brown's massive expiring contract to Memphis' penny-pinching ownership) in getting Gasol.


After each team's core peaked in 2007 and it became obvious they would need improvements to stay in contention, each front office has been perfectly content with a 50 win team that doesn't have much of a chance at winning it all

Maybe that's true of Sarver, but not Cuban. Like I said, we can debate the wisdom of Cuban's moves but not his desire or financial commitment to winning a title.

[stretch]

Getting Joe Johnson would definitely help the Mavs a lot. Sure, he tends to be more of a shooter, but truth is, the Mavs need some better shooting. They are not that great of a 3pt shooting team anymore, and he would definitely help to improve that, and create a lot better spacing for guys like Dirk, Butler, and Roddy to attack. Keep in mind, he will also be playing 2nd fiddle to Dirk. I'd put money on it that he would become a much more efficient scorer, and player in general here in Dallas, not being relied upon so much for scoring. He can go back to what he was for Phoenix - a damn good shooter and defender, and a very well rounded player. When he had a legit superstar creating for him (Nash), the guy shot a sick 48% from the 3pt line. I think having guys like Kidd and Dirk being able to take attention away will help him tremendously. People who think that the Mavs would still have no chance at contending against the Lakers are nuts. Remember, the Lakers were an offensive rebound away from being taken 7 games by the 8th seed Thunder, and the Lakers only won 2 more games than the Mavs did through the season, despite the Mavs having quite a few more injuries to deal with, as well as a midseason trade. They were some bad coaching and better chemistry away from being in the 2nd round, and possibly in the WCF. The Mavs are not far off at all, and a full offseason to allow Joe Johnson, Roddy B, and Brendan Haywood to all get used to the Mavs and their system could really put the Mavs over the top. Then if they can add Gooden and a better backup such as Shaq or Gortat, they could be pretty damn scary.

[clambake]

They are not that great of a 3pt shooting team anymore, and he would definitely help to improve that, and create a lot better spacing for guys like Dirk, Butler, and Roddy to attack.

this i could live with.

[Mavs_man_41]

That would actually be a decent trade for Dallas since JJ would be their best post-2007 attempt at giving Dirk capable help. What would you rather your team do, make a gamble like that and fill the hole Dallas has had at shooting guard since Michael Finley, or listen to a press conference about how no off season moves are needed because "the growth of Roddy Beaubois and the improved team chemistry" will be the difference maker this year?

i'd rather that player help, rather than add to the problem. we don't need another pussy jumpshooter that's easy to close out on in the halfcourt and will choke in the playoffs. we need a guy that can penetrate and create offense for himself. i mean i would take him but not at the cost of our only young guy with potential, no way.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

In the case of the Suns, my understanding is that they DID offer Amare for KG and there were two problems. First, KG was not interested in going to Phoenix if it meant he didn't get to play with Amare (meaning the Suns would've had trouble securing an extension from him) and second, McHale was more impressed with Al Jefferson than Amare. So I have a hard time faulting Phoenix for not landing KG. The Mavs didn't have an offer that trumped a package centered around Jefferson, and that along with McHale's Boston ties means I have a hard time faulting either the Suns or Mavs for not getting him. And we can all agree that the Lakers benefited from collusion (and the appeal of Kwame Brown's massive expiring contract to Memphis' penny-pinching ownership) in getting Gasol.


There are rumors of McHale turning down a KG Amare deal (rumors started up by the Phoenix media when fans started to question why it wasn't done), but the part about him wanting to play with Amare is bullshit. During Amare's rookie season Marbury decided it would be smart to call KG and tell him how much better Amare would be than he is and how much more potential he has, since then Amare and KG have been at each other's throats when they play each other. KG wanted to go play with Steve Nash who was one of his best friends at the time.

As far as Gasol, we can cry collusion all we want. But until I have proof the Suns offered a package that got rejected equivalent or better than LA's package, I'm gonna place the blame at their feet for not doing anything to prevent LA from getting Pau. Unfortunately I know for a fact they didn't try to get Gasol since the expiring contract and two first rounders they gave to Seattle for nothing + draft rights to a Spanish league star they traded for nothing was similar to the package LA gave for Gasol. Since Nelson and Cuban haven't said anything about an offer they made, I'm willing to bet they didn't make an effort to get Gasol either.


EDIT: I don't question Mark Cuban's financial commitment, but I question how much time, effort, and energy he wants to spend getting Dallas a championship, and how willing he is to make changes that aren't absolutely necessary. It doesn't seem like Cuban ever makes changes before it becomes so obvious that Ray Charles can see that a change needs to be made (Robert Sarver is the same in this respect).

It just seems to me that if Cuban was really investing time and effort into trying to improve Dallas, it wouldn't have taken him so long to see the problem Josh Howard was, or how much of a problem Avery Johnson was, or how bad Antoine Wright and Devean George were, along with other things.

[monosylab1k]

does nobody think other teams are interested in dirk?

Everybody knows he's not going anywhere. If other teams thought Dirk might actually leave Dallas, the line would form to the left for his services.

[clambake]

Everybody knows he's not going anywhere. If other teams thought Dirk might actually leave Dallas, the line would form to the left for his services.

nobody thinks he'll even try to make contact with others?

[Findog]

nobody thinks he'll even try to make contact with others?

Because of the age difference (he's 32, guys like Bron, Bosh, Wade and Amare are all in their mid-twenties), every team with cap space and looking to sign a marquee free agent has Dirk as probably Plan D or E. So a team like the Knicks is going to sign Dirk after Bron, Wade, Bosh and Amare turn them down, whereas to the Mavs he is Priority #1? And when the Knicks can't offer him as much money as the Mavs?

Dirk is only leaving the Mavs to go to a better situation. If Bron recruits Dirk as his #2 guy to play with him in Chicago or New York, that might change things. Otherwise, 99.9% certain he's coming back to the Mavs.

[monosylab1k]

nobody thinks he'll even try to make contact with others?

Well Dirk is obviously a lot more low key than any of the other big name attention whores. he's not going to twitter all day about his FA status, or have World Wide Wes tell the media 18 different stories a day.

I don't think he has any intentions of leaving Dallas. Jason Kidd said Dirk just wants the Mavs to "wine and dine" him, I guess just show that they're committed to winning for the rest of his career and that they want to compensate him accordingly.

If Mark Cuban does the unthinkable and tries to give him an insulting lowball offer, that's the only way I see Dirk walking away from Dallas. But that won't happen. The Mavs front office will show him how much they appreciate him, give him a max contract and a no trade clause, and this will be over with.

[badfish22]

We shouldn't have to trade Roddy to get Johnson. Fuck that.

Also, there has been a lack of Lebron dreamin in this thread

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=owners-100628 (with vid)

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nba/news/story?id=5334365

http://sports.espn.go.com/blog/dallas/mavericks/post/_/id/4669648/mavs-trying-to-get-seat-at-lebrons-table

[clambake]

We shouldn't have to trade Roddy to get Johnson. Fuck that.

:toast

[badfish22]

Is the proposed trade Roddy+Damp for Johnson?
Maybe if there were absolutly no other good offers for Damp I would consider it. But our best trade chip and our best young player (maybe our third best player overall) for a guy who looked like Jason Terry in the playoffs last year is a bit much.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Wow, he looked like Jason Terry as the #1 option defenses were keying on, Jason Terry looked like Jason Terry missing a bunch of open shots. Why are people acting like the 2010 playoffs are how Johnson has played his entire career?

[badfish22]

Wow, he looked like Jason Terry as the #1 option defenses were keying on, Jason Terry looked like Jason Terry missing a bunch of open shots. Why are people acting like the 2010 playoffs are how Johnson has played his entire career?

I said a few pages back that I would love Johnson here. But Roddy+Damp is too much to give up for him, imho.

[BUMP]

So we can pencil you in as a dumbfuck who wants to see the Mavs suck for a decade?

I'm fucking sick of these retarded Mavs fans who didn't even follow the team in the 90's thinking that blowing it up is a good option. Blowing it up doesn't guarantee that a solid rebuilding process will happen. Blowing it up just guarantees your team will suck for an extended period, and if you're lucky it won't be more than 3-4 years.

If you actually followed the Mavericks through the 90's there's no way in hell you want to see them blow this up. This is heaven compared to that era.

:lol I give up in this thread. Every time I post i get a response like this

Its a shame Mono isn't the gm of the Mavs, otherwise we would have atleast 3 rings right now

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I said a few pages back that I would love Johnson here. But Roddy+Damp is too much to give up for him, imho.


What exactly is it you expect Beaubois to become that makes him a deal breaker for someone who was a 3rd all NBA guard this year and has made the all star game the last 4 years?

[monosylab1k]

:lol I give up in this thread. Every time I post i get a response like this

don't post ignorant ass post-2000 mavs fan bullshit then.

[clambake]

What exactly is it you expect Beaubois to become that makes him a deal breaker for someone who was a 3rd all NBA guard this year and has made the all star game the last 4 years?

he has the potential to be a real dagger.

johnson has the potential to be just another mav standing around.

[badfish22]

Its not just about Roddy, its about Damp as well. Damp can turn into a number of good players (jefferson, gay). Is Johnson worth Roddy plus another good player? I don't think he is. Like I said earlier, if the Dust chip brings no other good offers I would consier it.

[monosylab1k]

I would do a DUST for Deng trade before a DUST/Roddy for Johnson trade.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Is Johnson worth Roddy plus another good player?


Yes but that's an opinion I don't expect any Mavs fan on this site to agree with. There are only so many complete shooting guards in the NBA who can shoot off the dribble or catch, create for themselves and others, and defend well. There are a bevy of NBA players with a skill set comparable to Beaubois'.

[BUMP]

don't post ignorant ass post-2000 mavs fan bullshit then.

everytime somebody posts a different view than yours, you respond like we insulted your family or something. And i'll be the first to say i'm not the most knowledgable fan. I can always accept different views.

FinDog made a logical point that was different than mine earlier without throwing a tantrum. What a concept!

[Muser]

Johnson or Deng won't put the Mavs over the top, I don't know if there is any realistic trade that could.

[MavDynasty]

2 sources say that Dwyane Wade has the Mavs, Knicks, and Bulls on a 3-team interview list.

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=3187

:lmao if Whistle comes to Dallas, how ironic.

[BUMP]

If we have a shot at Wade, fuck everything I said about blowing up the team :lol:lol

[Ghazi]

Yes but that's an opinion I don't expect any Mavs fan on this site to agree with. There are only so many complete shooting guards in the NBA who can shoot off the dribble or catch, create for themselves and others, and defend well. There are a bevy of NBA players with a skill set comparable to Beaubois'.

Mavs need all the depth and talent they can get in order to compete for a championship. Losing Beaubois and adding Johnson may not be enough... having both and therefore relegating Terry to his rightful 15-20 minute role could be enough.

Although, adding Johnson would really reduce JET's role anyway. but I digress.

IMO the Mavs need to add talent to reduce the roles of Terry, Kidd, and Marion. Good role players, not good 30-35 minute players.

[D-Wade #3]

Good God Mav fans are dumb. They wouldn't trade Roddy B for Johnson, I guess that skullfucking in 06 took a major toll on their already retarded asses

[MiamiHeat]

If we have a shot at Wade, fuck everything I said about blowing up the team :lol:lol

well, i remember wade saying that the owner and management is very very important to him.

Wade said that team loyalty to players and how they treat their players now and when they retire is important to him, so he notices that Mark Cuban treats his guys right and is very loyal and all that

plus, Mavs arent scared to spend money to win titles...

but the Knicks? who the F wants to play for No defense D'antoni?

i would suspect the knicks need to fire D'antoni if they expect to land any big star. everyone knows defense blah blah championships.

[Ghazi]

Good God Mav fans are dumb. They wouldn't trade Roddy B for Johnson, I guess that skullfucking in 06 took a major toll on their already retarded asses

Beaubois may be a better player than Johnson in as early as 2-3 years...

[Ghazi]

also dok i hate to give credit to cpwhistles gutless quitting asss but if hes not hurt Johnson doesnt make all-NBA 3rd team.

So really he's not an all-NBA caliber player, just an all-star caliber player.

[Basketballgirl25]

Beaubois may be a better player than Johnson in as early as 2-3 years...

he could, and then again he might not. This year will prob be the better year to judge since he should be playing more mins

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Beaubois may be a better player than Johnson in as early as 2-3 years...


Beaubois is never gonna make 4 straight all star teams.

[badfish22]

Kidd/Roddy
Wade/fuckface
Marion/?
Dirk/Gooden
Haywood/Gooden

bend over

[Ghazi]

Beaubois is never gonna make 4 straight all star teams.

youre right, he might make 6 straight

staaaaaaaaacked

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

youre right, he might make 6 straight


Just like a month ago Lebron might sign with Dallas, right :lmao

lol 7 point ecstasy being too good to trade for someone who has been in the last 4 AS games

[monosylab1k]

And i'll be the first to say i'm not the most knowledgable fan.

And I'll be the second to say you're not the most knowledgable fan.

[Ghazi]

crucify him mono, send that BUMP ass to the tree of woe.

[Findog]

Please fellas....First rule of Mavs Krew: No Mav fan on Mav fan violence, unless it's thedong.

[MavDynasty]

Where is that bitch tbh?

[Shank]

Sup faggots?

[thedong]

Please fellas....First rule of Mavs Krew: No Mav fan on Mav fan violence, unless it's thedong.


LOL @ this clown, no one give a fuck about u and ur retarded girlfriend, we aint down for your ''cause'' fool.

[badfish22]

Please fellas....First rule of Mavs Krew: No Mav fan on Mav fan violence, unless it's thedong.

whats up with you and thedong?

[4>0rings]

Who gives a shit, another 50+ win season and nothing to show for it but a scrub that the coach didn't want to play.