Dallas Mavericks off-season thread

[Findog]

We have too many one-dimensional players: "offensive" players who can't defend and can't always hit their shots (Terry, Barea) "defensive" players who can't score consistently (Marion, Dampier, Stevenson), and other players who don't consistently play well on both sides of the ball, even though they are supposed to be two-way players (Butler, Kidd, Haywood). I shudder at the thought of Jason Kidd being our 38-yr-old starting PG.

The following is a list of what I think is out there that can be acquired. In some cases, like the premier free agents (LeBron, Wade, Amare, Bosh, Johnson), etc. I think these are slim long shots. If a player isn't listed, it's because I don't think they have any interest in trading that player to the Mavs for anything that we would want (ex. Kevin Durant and OKC).

Atlantic Division:

NYK - Tracy McGrady MLE, Al Harrington MLE
BOS - Ray Allen MLE, Nate Robinson MLE, Marquis Daniels LLE, Tony Allen LLE
PHI - Willie Green, Andre Iguodala, Elton Brand trade targets
TOR - Chris Bosh trade target

SE Division:

Atlanta: Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams trade targets, Joe Smith LLE
Charlotte: Tyson Chandler, Stephen Jackson trade targets
Miami: Dwyane Wade trade target, Quentin Richardson MLE
Orlando: Marcin Gortat trade target
Washington: Mike Miller MLE, Randy Foye trade target

Central Division:

Chicago: Kirk Hinrich trade target, Hakim Warrick LLE
Cleveland: LeBron James trade target
Detroit: Kwame Brown LLE, Will Bynum LLE, Tayshaun Prince trade target
Indiana: Troy Murphy trade target
Milwaukee: John Salmons MLE, Kurt Thomas LLE,

SW Division:

Memphis: Zach Randolph trade target, Rudy Gay trade target, Ronnie Brewer MLE

NW Division:

Minnesota: Darko Milicic LLE, Al Jefferson trade target
Utah: Carlos Boozer trade target

Pacific Division:

Golden State: Monta Ellis, Corey Maggette, Kelenna Azubuike, Anthony Morrow trade targets
LA Clippers: Baron Davis, Chris Kaman trade targets, Drew Gooden MLE, Rasual Butler LLE
Phoenix: Amare Stoudemire trade target, Louis Amundson LLE
Sacramento: Francisco Garcia trade target

Draft targets: Solomon Alabi, Jordan Crawford, Lance Stephenson, Willie Warren

[Findog]

1. Resign Dirk to 3-year extension after he opts out.
2. Resign Haywood at reasonable price.
3. ?????

[Findog]

Kirk Hinrich would be a pretty underrated pickup. He could play 26 minutes a night at PG for us - solid PG defender, can run an offense competently, I think he could complement Kidd well.

[Shank]

Who are you?

[Fpoonsie]

Gladjur back, Fin. (no homo)

[Roddy Beaubois]

We already have one of these I think. I guess this is the new one.

Im gonna wreck shit next year.

[BlackSwordsMan]

can spurs and dallas merge next year?

[Rick Carlisle]

We already have one of these I think. I guess this is the new one.

Im gonna wreck shit next year.

What. The. Fuck.
You are not ready to be a spurstalk troll. Log the FUCK out.

[Findog]

can spurs and dallas merge next year?

That team for sure could get to the Conference Finals.

[JamStone]

Man you were itching to press "post" for like two weeks, weren't you?

[Findog]

What. The. Fuck.
You are not ready to be a spurstalk troll. Log the FUCK out.

:lol

[Findog]

Man you were itching to press "post" for like two weeks, weren't you?

Not really, because I knew it would only be a 14-day "timeout." It's not like the Spurs were gonna make a deep playoff run.

[Roddy Beaubois]

What. The. Fuck.
You are not ready to be a spurstalk troll. Log the FUCK out.

Oh sory. Im vewy sorry. I guess I haven't shown you enough. I will twy bettear for now on.

[Shank]

Highly possible they revisit acquiring Gortat. I don't know 100% that they'll re-sign Haywood. He's saying all the right things now, but he's been pissing and moaning for weeks now.

Kelenna re-upped with GS this week. Darko is heading back to Europe.

I like Monta Ellis and I'm 80% certain Drew Gooden is back here.

[Shank]

Highly possible they revisit acquiring Gortat. I don't know 100% that they'll re-sign Haywood. He's saying all the right things now, but he's been pissing and moaning for weeks now.

Kelenna re-upped with GS this week. Darko is heading back to Europe.

I like Monta Ellis and I'm 80% certain Drew Gooden is back here.

[Rick Carlisle]

Oh sory. Im vewy sorry. I guess I haven't shown you enough. I will twy bettear for now on.

Fuck no you haven't shown me enough. Your disposition has been terrible, and thats been your undoing, you French faggot.

[Ghazi]

38 is just a number. Kidd is a fine starting PG in this league, especially in the regular season. What athleticism does he have left anyway? If he shoots the 3 like he did last year, it's no big deal. Just give him some athletic compliments in the back court (Beaubois, maybe a guy like Iguodala) and reduce his minutes by 5-8 minutes or so.

Its D-Whistle or bust boys.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Welcome back Findog.

2 questions

1) Is your Dad doing OK now?

and

2) How was that KFC sandwhich?

:lol

[ElNono]

Not really, because I knew it would only be a 14-day "timeout." It's not like the Spurs were gonna make a deep playoff run.

I thought you had the winner of Dallas-Spurs penciled in for the WCF? :lol
Good to see you back.

[Findog]

Highly possible they revisit acquiring Gortat. I don't know 100% that they'll re-sign Haywood. He's saying all the right things now, but he's been pissing and moaning for weeks now.

Kelenna re-upped with GS this week. Darko is heading back to Europe.

I like Monta Ellis and I'm 80% certain Drew Gooden is back here.

I like Gortat at MLE numbers for 4 years. A Gortat/Haywood tandem is about as good as you can manage if you don't have a Howard, Horford, Bogut, Ming, etc.

I wouldn't pay Haywood any more than $8 million a year for 5 years, so I would let him walk if he gets $10 million per for 5 years.

As for Ellis, I think he's a volume scorer on a bad team, and he doesn't add anything to this team that Roddy doesn't have. But then I think about Marquis Daniels rookie year and what he turned out to be, and I realize Roddy isn't a lock to make it.

[Findog]

Welcome back Findog.

2 questions

1) Is your Dad doing OK now?

and

2) How was that KFC sandwhich?

:lol

He's fine, thanks for asking.

The Double Down is horrifying. I got the grilled version, but it was missing the bacon and "zesty" sauce, and so it was just two gray chicken fillets with some white cheese glop pressed between them. Gross.

[Shank]

You got the grilled one? Did you see the nutritional numbers on it? Did you get fooled into thinking it was healthy?

[Roddy Beaubois]

Its D-Whistle or bust boys.

Dont know what your fascination with the whistler is. If were talking pipe dreams, we got a better shot at getting Lebron than Wade. Wade is either in Chicago or Miami next year imo. Joe Johnson would be a nice piece as well.

As of now we are entering the season with a Kidd/Roddy/Butler/Dirk/Haywood lineup, but I hope we get a starter with the Dust chip. But starting Roddy is an intriguing idea. He guards the PG's and slashes to the basket on offense. I honestly hope Roddy and Kidd are going 60/40 by the end of next year in terms of pg minutes.

[Findog]

Mavs I'm sure will make a hard push for one of the premier FAs, but I doubt we get any of them. That's why my list has other players that I think are available targets.

[Roddy Beaubois]

Mavs I'm sure will make a hard push for one of the premier FAs, but I doubt we get any of them.
what makes you say that?


Biggest FA pickups in Cubans tenure: Damp and Marion.


Oh, right.

[monosylab1k]

I don't know 100% that they'll re-sign Haywood. He's saying all the right things now, but he's been pissing and moaning for weeks now.

I would be too. It was pretty obvious from Day 1 that he had 1000000000000x more to offer than Dampier. For Haywood to be put on the bench behind the Big Vagina was retarded and insulting.

[monosylab1k]

Step #1 will be Rick going to Haywood, Caron, and Roddy and apologizing for being a prick to them at some (or all) parts of the season. And admitting to the rest of the team he did a shitty job coaching and promising to do better next season.

I don't see how Caron Butler has any respect for Carlisle whatsoever right now. Or really anyone else on the team besides JET and Barea.

[sribb43]

After seeing the spurs get thrashed...this thing is worse than I thought

:lmao @ Donnie "We just ran into a buzzshaw in SA"

[Man About Town]

Every team turns into a "buzzsaw" when they face the Mavs in the playoffs.

[Ghazi]

After seeing the spurs get thrashed...this thing is worse than I thought

:lmao @ Donnie "We just ran into a buzzshaw in SA"

Dumb way of looking at things. By similar logic the Hawks were closer to a title in 2008 than the Lakers. I'd still say the Mavs roster had a better shot of taking down the Lakers than the Suns, but we'll never know.

Mavs are just 1-2 pieces away. :bking

D-Whistle away from a championship. Literally, a championship

Iggy or Johnson away from being a really good team.

[Allanon]

I would be too. It was pretty obvious from Day 1 that he had 1000000000000x more to offer than Dampier. For Haywood to be put on the bench behind the Big Vagina was retarded and insulting.

Why don't you worry about you being a Vagina first and pay up your bet?


I'm a fucking coward that runs when I lose a bet

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4110682&postcount=82

Allanon- There's a date and time on it if I edited it now. I can specifically find the post where I said he was a "role player" FIRST.

You take the bet or not you pussy shit?

Mono - Ok I take that bet.

Allanon - I showed you where "role player" was. I won.

Change your sig to "I'm Allanon's bitch", Mono. :lol

[stretch]

I'm thinking the Mavericks really need to consider trading for Al Jefferson. Reports say that they offered him for Tayshaun Prince straight up, but Detroit said no. Supposedly they really want a wing player in return, but are open to other ideas.

Should the Mavs look into trading Butler and Stevenson for Al, and then use DUST to try to get Igodala to fill Butler's spot? Then let Haywood just walk, and instead sign Shaq for MLE, as he has been ? Also try to get Gooden back for vet minimum again, as he has expressed interest in returning as well.

PG - Kidd, Beaubois
SG - Beaubois, Terry
SF - Iguodala, Marion
PF - Nowitzki, Gooden
C - Jefferson, Shaq

It would definitely get the Mavs younger, more talented, and more athletic. But Iggy also has a bad contract, and who knows how well his playing style will fit in.

So perhaps would it be better if the Mavs gave the DUST chip with perhaps Stevenson and a future pick for Jefferson, kept Butler, and still pursued Shaq and Gooden.

PG - Kidd, Beaubois
SG - Beaubois, Terry
SF - Butler, Marion
PF - Dirk, Gooden
C - Jefferson, Shaq

Or perhaps should the Mavs go after someone like Joe Johnson instead of Jefferson, and re-sign Haywood. Then they could roll a lineup of...

PG - Kidd, Beaubois
SG - Johnson, Terry
SF - Butler, Marion
PF - Dirk, Gooden
C - Shaq, Haywood

Thoughts?

[stretch]

IMO, the 1st lineup is best for future. But currently leaves guards are thin in terms of size. May take another year for them to truly gel. But also tons of potential to be beastly.

2nd lineup is most balanced, with talent, "win-now", and future. Guards still lack size though.

3rd lineup is going all out with the "win-now" mentality. Most balanced team on the floor, but the future is questionable. They would probably have a 2-3 year window at most to compete for a title.

[Findog]

If Jefferson is on the block, the Mavs need to make a play for him. Dirk has played alongside a lot of different kind of players, but he's never had a lock-down low-post scorer. Of course, a front line of Al and Dirk would be a layup line for the other team.

[Edward]

Al Jefferson has the right attitude, his shitty defense has more to do with the huge load he has to carry offensively. Put him on a team where pressure gets taken off him offensively and he'll improve.

[Venti Quattro]

question: why is shaq in the "best lineup moving foward" scenario?

[stretch]

Jefferson's defense has improved quite a bit over the past couple years. Also, playing on a team that's actually competent may help him quite a bit, much the way going to the Lakers has suddenly made Pau Gasol look like a solid defensive post presence, when in his past years with the Grizzlies, he looked awful shitty on defense. Good team defense goes a long way into how an individual looks defensively, ESPECIALLY when it comes to post defenders. It's tough when they have to both man the paint because no one can keep their man in front of them, and go around guarding guys like Dirk, Duncan, or Gasol. I think he would be just fine. Beside, going back to the Lakers, Gasol and Bynum both are not very good individual defenders, but they defend decently as a team. Truth is, the Mavs having a much more consistent, efficient offense will feed a lot into them having better defense, the way it does for the Lakers, even though they really aren't all that spectacular defensively.

[stretch]

question: why is shaq in the "best lineup moving foward" scenario?

I doubt Shaq gets more than a 1 year contract. But with Haywood, he is probably going to be expensive, and also ask for several years. Unfortunately, he is going to get that contract somewhere, whether its with the Mavs or not, because quality big men in the NBA are hard to find. Same way Dampier got his contract. Mavs would be a lot worse off down the road if they had to have Haywood's contract on hand.

[Findog]

question: why is shaq in the "best lineup moving foward" scenario?

I have no interest in Shaq, not even in a 15 mpg for the vet minimum role. Of course, Cuban loves his big names past their prime (Kidd, Marion, Terry) so Shaq will probably end up in Dallas.

[stretch]

al jefferson has the right attitude, his shitty defense has more to do with the huge load he has to carry offensively. Put him on a team where pressure gets taken off him offensively and he'll improve.

+1

[Edward]

I have no interest in Shaq, not even in a 15 mpg for the vet minimum role.


Don't worry, the day Shaq has to take that role is the day he'll just retire.

[Findog]

I doubt Shaq gets more than a 1 year contract. But with Haywood, he is probably going to be expensive, and also ask for several years. Unfortunately, he is going to get that contract somewhere, whether its with the Mavs or not, because quality big men in the NBA are hard to find. Same way Dampier got his contract. Mavs would be a lot worse off down the road if they had to have Haywood's contract on hand.

I can't see Haywood getting more than 5/60. That's not a terrible contract if you're in win-now mode. You'd only have to pay him the first four years and then other teams would want him. Trading for Gortat, a Gortat/Haywood combo is pretty good for the C position if you don't have a Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut or Al Horford.

[Findog]

Don't worry, the day Shaq has to take that role is the day he'll just retire.

Honestly he should've retired two years ago. I think the only reason he still plays is because he's gonna get cleaned out in his divorce.

[stretch]

I have no interest in Shaq, not even in a 15 mpg for the vet minimum role. Of course, Cuban loves his big names past their prime (Kidd, Marion, Terry) so Shaq will probably end up in Dallas.

I don't understand that. For a year? You get someone who can still give you 15 points a game while only playing around 20-25 minutes a game, and is still better than probably 80% of the other centers in the NBA, for dirt cheap, who is probably now motivated to get his 5th and do so by knocking Kobe and the Lakers out of the playoffs. There isn't any better options out there.

[Edward]

Honestly he should've retired two years ago. I think the only reason he still plays is because he's gonna get cleaned out in his divorce.


He looked like he had plenty left after the 2009 season, but then he went right back on his off season KFC diet and now looks done. If he stayed in shape and did what the Phoenix trainers told him to do he would be getting a decent contract this summer.

[stretch]

I can't see Haywood getting more than 5/60. That's not a terrible contract if you're in win-now mode. You'd only have to pay him the first four years and then other teams would want him. Trading for Gortat, a Gortat/Haywood combo is pretty good for the C position if you don't have a Dwight Howard, Andrew Bogut or Al Horford.

And how exactly are the Mavs going to get Gortat? Who would they be trading?

[Findog]

And how exactly are the Mavs going to get Gortat? Who would they be trading?

I don't think the Magic want to continue paying that guy the full MLE to play 10 mpg as Dwight's backup.

[Findog]

I don't understand that. For a year? You get someone who can still give you 15 points a game while only playing around 20-25 minutes a game, and is still better than probably 80% of the other centers in the NBA, for dirt cheap, who is probably now motivated to get his 5th and do so by knocking Kobe and the Lakers out of the playoffs. There isn't any better options out there.

I don't think Shaq is better than 80% of the other centers in the league, and I am not interested in teams p'n'rolling us to death with him on the floor. I think Haywood is better, and I'm willing to give him 5/60. That's fine, though, we can disagree on that.

[stretch]

I don't think Shaq is better than 80% of the other centers in the league, and I am not interested in teams p'n'rolling us to death with him on the floor. I think Haywood is better, and I'm willing to give him 5/60. That's fine, though, we can disagree on that.

Haywood is better defensively, no question. I'm just saying, if the Mavs are really in win now mode, and they have no other centers that they can get other than Haywood, I say get Shaq. Obviously I would mostly like to have a Jefferson/Haywood combo, but who knows how that would work. If Haywood goes back to pouting on the bench, I'd rather have Shaq, because at least Shaq will give us 10-15 points.

[stretch]

I don't think the Magic want to continue paying that guy the full MLE to play 10 mpg as Dwight's backup.

Still, who would the Mavs give up? If they can trade Stevenson, Carroll, or Barea for him, cool. Anything else is too much unless they do a 3-way trade and get some other pieces back. If the Mavs could find a way get Brandon Bass back along with Gortat, that would be pretty cool though, lol.

[Findog]

Still, who would the Mavs give up? If they can trade Stevenson, Carroll, or Barea for him, cool. Anything else is too much unless they do a 3-way trade and get some other pieces back. If the Mavs could find a way get Brandon Bass back along with Gortat, that would be pretty cool though, lol.

Stevenson has 1 year left on his deal. If the Magic didn't care about getting talent back, that would be a way to get pure cap relief.

[stretch]

Stevenson has 1 year left on his deal. If the Magic didn't care about getting talent back, that would be a way to get pure cap relief.

True. If Mavs can pull of sending him and a 2nd rounder or something for Gortat, that would be pretty nice.

[stretch]

nothing short of lebron or wade to dallas is going to matter, who gives a fuck

dont be gay

[stretch]

just not giving a fuck about pointless shit i'm not supposed to give a fuck about, no surprises here..:depressed

dont be gay

[stretch]

tbh our only hope is getting jefferson and iggy, having gooden come back, resigning haywood, and the emergence of roddy so that maybe we can round up enough talent by committee to compete and have all things go the right way.

my ideal (and reasonable) lineup for 2010-2011

PG - Kidd, Beaubois/Terry
SG - Beaubois, Terry/Butler
SF - Butler, Marion
PF - Dirk, Gooden
C - Jefferson, Gortat

A part of me wishes we could have Iggy instead of Butler, because of the added athleticism and youth, but I don't like his contract, and I really like Butler, his style, and he's a pretty clutch player too. Plays hard, doesn't try to do too much. Plus Butler only has 1 year on this contract, so I'm sure Mavs can resign him for cheaper next year.

[Edward]

tbh teams should be lining up if Minny wants to trade Jefferson. ACL replacements take awhile to recover from but it's a pretty high success rate of recovery, the Lakers should have shown everyone by now size wins in the playoffs, and right now all the Western teams are trying to catch LA in size.

[monosylab1k]

According to an article on dallasbasketball.com, the Mavs are reluctant to go after Andre Iguodala because he, Butler, and Marion are "basically the same player".

If anyone in the Mavs front office really truly believes that, we're completely fucked. That means they can't scout or evaluate talent for dick.

[monosylab1k]

anyways, we won't see any big trades this offseason because the Mavs front office knows how to play things. I'm starting to think the DUST chip will go unused.

They can play the start of this season as "see what happens when Caron/Haywood have a full training camp! Team chemistry out the ass!"

Then as the team fades away around the trade deadline "we've got expiring contracts, we can make a move now!"

Then when the team makes a deadline trade, has to retool on the fly, and isn't prepared for the playoffs and lose in the first round "we ran into a buzzsaw"

Rinse, repeat.

[Edward]

Wow, that is really fuckin stupid. Caron Butler is nothing like Iggy or Marion. Other than athleticism Iggy isn't similar to Marion at all given that one loves to have the ball in his hands and the other gets nervous whenever the ball is near him.

[monosylab1k]

we would essentially be the early 2000's mavericks, all offense and absolutely no defense except less talent on the perimeter and more in the post.

you act like this team plays any defense now.

[monosylab1k]

lets see, undersized SG's and a PF with no defensive presence playing center..hmm..i guess now when beaubois and terry get their asses busted and took to the hole we won't even have damp or haywood in the paint to alter the shot. this lineup is a recipe for disaster.

okay brah, and next season I don't want to hear you bitching about how "we need someone who can score in the post!" like Mavs fans have been bitching about for like 30 years now.

Every year it seems like Mavs fans say "the missing piece is a low post scorer!" then a low post scorer becomes available and it turns into "yeah but he's not the right low post scorer :cry"

[Edward]

IMO Beaubois should start at the point for Dallas with Kidd off the bench. He doesn't have the size to ever play SG, so they might as well force him to learn PG on the fly, and Kidd can play a role with less pressure as the 6th man who can set things up for the 2nd unit. Everyone knows how much I hate volume assist PGs so I think if Roddy learns to pass the ball early if it's not there for him their offense will have a good flow, they won't have to worry about Beaubois being a ball hog. Terry/Marion also rely on Kidd's playmaking so they'll be better with him on the 2nd unit.

[monosylab1k]

Remember how everybody was bitching that the Mavs were going after Zach Randolph?

"he sucks and he'll kill this team :cry"

[monosylab1k]

IMO Beaubois should start at the point for Dallas with Kidd off the bench. He doesn't have the size to ever play SG, so they might as well force him to learn PG on the fly, and Kidd can play a role with less pressure as the 6th man who can set things up for the 2nd unit. Everyone knows how much I hate volume assist PGs so I think if Roddy learns to pass the ball early if it's not there for him their offense will have a good flow, they won't have to worry about Beaubois being a ball hog. Terry/Marion also rely on Kidd's playmaking so they'll be better with him on the 2nd unit.

tbh roddy will always have some ballhog tendencies to him. I think he can control those tendencies, but he'll always be a bit of a ballhog and chucker. His playmaking ability offsets that tho imo.

[monosylab1k]

ps brah..exactly what low post scorers have we ever had? seriously

exactly. every time the mavs look into getting one, mavs fans get all asshurt.

Chris Kaman
Zach Randolph
Al Jefferson

always an excuse why they shouldn't get a low post scorer on the trading block. then a bunch of bitching and moaning the next season about how they need a low post scorer.

[MavDynasty]

tbh I miss Gooden. He could actually score in the post and wasn't scared to bang down low either. Will be happy to see him come back even though he might be a little irritating with his 1v5 offense but it seemed like it worked. He made some ridiculous bullshit last year that I thought there was no chance of going. He hustled like crazy too, I remember Ortegal on his Dick every night about the heart and hustle he gave.

[monosylab1k]

right. just don't bring in another PF to do it, we already have a PF..our franchise player. we need a 7 ft center

then tbh if i see you bitch once next season about how a low post scorer is what this team needs, i'll go Guiseppe on your ass.

[monosylab1k]

Chris Kaman gets hurt too much :cry

Zach Randolph will kill team chemistry :cry

Al Jefferson doesn't play defense :cry

Either you want someone who can get you points down low or you don't.

[Edward]

tbh roddy will always have some ballhog tendencies to him. I think he can control those tendencies, but he'll always be a bit of a ballhog and chucker. His playmaking ability offsets that tho imo.


Nothing worse than Tony Parker who has proven to run an offense effectively. Roddy shoots a high % from the field, and doesn't dominate the ball looking for assists, ball hogging won't be a huge problem for him.

[monosylab1k]

mono..you're confusing building a great fantasy team with building a winning team in the real world.

So getting a player who can get you 15-20 easy points down low every night isn't building a winning team?

Sorry I guess you want the Mavs to continue jacking up 20 footers all night and praying they go in.

[Edward]

Chris Kaman gets hurt too much :cry

Zach Randolph will kill team chemistry :cry

Al Jefferson doesn't play defense :cry

Either you want someone who can get you points down low or you don't.


I think he's saying he doesn't.

[MavDynasty]

Sorry I guess you want the Mavs to continue jacking up 20 footers all night and praying they go in.

sounds like the mavs of the past decade.

I want to see some fucking points in the paint.

[Edward]

I know this will get butthurt responses, but if you want points in the paint and less jump shooting, then the elephant in the room preventing that is the fact your team is built around a 7 footer who gets no points in the paint.

[monosylab1k]

we do need a post scorer

agreed


but

no buts. either we need one or we don't. if you're looking for the perfect post scorer, he's not available. The post scorers available have warts. Either you want a post scorer and you accept those warts, or you really don't want a post scorer, you'd rather see this team live and die by the jumper, and you have no right to ever bitch about this team not having low post scoring next season.

[BadOdor]

I know this will get butthurt responses, but if you want points in the paint and less jump shooting, then the elephant in the room preventing that is the fact your team is built around a 7 footer who gets no points in the paint.

oh no you didn't!

[monosylab1k]

I know this will get butthurt responses, but if you want points in the paint and less jump shooting, then the elephant in the room preventing that is the fact your team is built around a 7 footer who gets no points in the paint.

pairing him with the mentally retarded Erick Dampier for 6 years hasn't helped.

[Edward]

agreed



no buts. either we need one or we don't. if you're looking for the perfect post scorer, he's not available. The post scorers available have warts. Either you want a post scorer and you accept those warts, or you really don't want a post scorer, you'd rather see this team live and die by the jumper, and you have no right to ever bitch about this team not having low post scoring next season.


He's saying that combining Dirk's warts with someone like Al Jefferson's warts is a recipe for disaster, and that's why he doesn't want to accept those warts. You're making the issue too black and white, there are shades of gray you're ignoring. It's not as simple as "You either want a low post scorer or you'd rather see this team live and die by the jumper". Adding Al Jefferson to Dallas does take away their need for a low post scorer, but it creates new needs and weaknesses for them, which is why you're making it too simple.

[monosylab1k]

He's saying that combining Dirk's warts with someone like Al Jefferson's warts is a recipe for disaster, and that's why he doesn't want to accept those warts. You're making the issue too black and white, there are shades of gray you're ignoring. It's not as simple as "You either want a low post scorer or you'd rather see this team live and die by the jumper". Adding Al Jefferson to Dallas does take away their need for a low post scorer, but it creates new needs and weaknesses for them, which is why you're making it too simple.

Yeah because having a big defensive body with the offensive ability of a retarded eight year old at center for 6 years has worked great :jack

[monosylab1k]

You can teach defense. You can teach Al Jefferson to be in the right spots, you can teach him how to defend the pick and roll, and you can teach him to be competent defensively. Not great, but competent.

You can't teach world-class post offense. Either a player has that gift or he doesn't.

[monosylab1k]

can you teach him in one offeason? cite one example where a player of al's age has suddenly gone from a poor defender to a great one.

he's only 25, he's still very teachable.

You can't go from a poor defender to a great defender. You can go from a poor defender to a decent defender, a defender who doesn't make stupid mistakes and who at least is always in position.

My example is Dirk, who went from one of the worst defenders in the league to a decent defender in the league after one offseason with Avery.

[monosylab1k]

Al + Dirk is a recipe for disaster and you know it Mono.

Have fun watching jumpers all season.

[Edward]

Yeah because having a big defensive body with the offensive ability of a retarded eight year old at center for 6 years has worked great :jack


Again dude, you're making it too black and white. He never said that has worked great, all he said jefferson and dirk up front won't work. His overall point is that they can't have a 2 PF lineup for defensive reasons, so regardless of how nice Dirk-Jefferson looks offensively, it is too weak defensively.

My interpretation of all of it is that Dallas has run out of routes to take that don't present major weaknesses or concerns (other than getting Lebron or Wade which no one expects to happen), and that they should consider rebuilding. Maybe you're not ready to give up on this group and I don't blame you because it's been good for so long, but that's just my opinion.

[monosylab1k]

fine, just don't bitch next season about how the Mavs need a low post scorer. There's one available and you don't want him.

[monosylab1k]

compared with watching a layup line get run on us all season

again, you act like the Mavs played good defense last season :lmao

[monosylab1k]

at times we did, at least for stretches.

too bad none of those stretches included the playoffs.

Erick Dampier has been so badass for the Mavs! We need someone just like him!

[monosylab1k]

gortat/haywood at center and bringing in another scoring option besides dirk who can create in the halfcourt is our only hope

i don't mind gortat, but you do realize that he got his shit pushed in by Boston right? Every night there was 3-4 highlights of Rondo making him look stupid.

[Veterinarian]

tbh Jefferson is so much better than Haywood/Damp that the whole concept of even having this argument is retarded.

[Edward]

tbh Jefferson is so much better than Haywood/Damp that the whole concept of even having this argument is retarded.


No one ever said he wasn't.

[stretch]

Jefferson isn't any worse of a defender than Gasol or Bynum. And the Lakers won a championship with them manning the middle. Mavs would be fine.

[monosylab1k]

then go have him instead of haywood on your fantasy team then, bump. but this is the nba and playoff games are won by getting stops and creating in half court sets. you can't get any stops with a 2 pf lineup, both of which happen to be average or poor defenders.

They aren't getting any stops in the playoffs now.

At least with Jefferson they have alot more halfcourt options besides "give it to dirk in the high post and pray his jumper goes in"

[Edward]

Jefferson isn't any worse of a defender than Gasol or Bynum.


Jefferson plays Amare Stoudemire level defense if not worse. I still think his defense would improve on a team with better offensive players, but right now his defense is a giant abortion, worse than Gasol's defense ever was on LA or Memphis.

[monosylab1k]

ok retard brothers, this is the part where i dip. constructive argument is no longer effective, peace.

okay brah, go log into m>s or Mavs man 41 and support your trolls argument.

[Veterinarian]

bump

lol try again

[Greg Oden]

okay brah, go log into m>s or Mavs man 41 and support your trolls argument.

crofl

[monosylab1k]

[QUOTE=twhottt;4444813] bump[QUOTE]

lol try again

tbh if i had a guess, i'd say BadOdor. You scoff God talk and always pop up when DoK posts.

[Rogue]

dirk + jefferson = fail defensively

[monosylab1k]

anyway neither donnie nor carlisle are as stupid as you

brah I have a record of every trade offer they turned down that I would have taken, and my lineup of players would be curbstomping the league right now.

[monosylab1k]

dirk + jefferson = fail defensively

:lol rogue gave you his password. smart move tbh.

[Mavs_man_41]

brah I have a record of every trade offer they turned down that I would have taken, and my lineup of players would be curbstomping the league right now.

as do i and jefferson isn't a part of that lineup, is he?

[Veterinarian]

tbh if i had a guess, i'd say BadOdor. You scoff God talk and always pop up when DoK posts.

Nope. tbh my main accoount is no one special or well known here, so you wouldn't guess ever.

[stretch]

Jefferson plays Amare Stoudemire level defense if not worse. I still think his defense would improve on a team with better offensive players, but right now his defense is a giant abortion, worse than Gasol's defense ever was on LA or Memphis.

People are still living off his rep as an awful defender back from 2007, much like people still live off of Dirk's bad defensive rep from early 2000s. both have improved considerably. Jefferson isn't great, but hes worlds better than he was in 2007. in fact i recall in several of the games this year against Minny, he played some damn good defense on Dirk, and definitely made a difference in the paint, a bigger difference than I have ever seen Amare make.

And as you say, when he has less load on him, and a more competent defensive team, it will help him as well.

[Rogue]

:lol rogue gave you his password. smart move tbh.
did you a stretch exchange passwords as you were swordfighting last night?

[BUMP]

Anyone who would pass on Big Al is completely retarded. This twhottt troll is acting like hakeem olajuwon's and ben wallace's are all over the market. Getting a 20 ppg low post scorer is something we can't pass up at all. Who else is fucking out there? Seriously. Gortat?:rollin:rollin:rollin

This guy sounds like SpurFan who said they would rather have Splitter over Amare and even that argument makes more sense than this one

[monosylab1k]

I'm just saying, if I was GM right now, we'd be rolling with a lineup of

Baron Davis
Corey Maggette
Gerald Wallace
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Kaman

and a bench consisting of:
Shawn Marion
Rashad McCants
Roddy Beaubois
Drew Gooden
Tim Thomas
Erick Dampier
Matt Carroll

I would have taken the Davis/Kaman for Kidd trade.
I would have done J-Ho for G-Force
I would have done the Marion trade (one thing Donnie did right)
I would have traded JET for Maggette
I would have traded JJ Barea for a blow job

this lineup still amazes me.

this doesn't even factor in that I would have done the Kobe/Dirk trade.

which means this -


actually I need to edit this^ to make myself look even better.

this would be the starting 5

Baron Davis
Kobe Bryant
Gerald Wallace
Shawn Marion
Chris Kaman

I would have traded Kobe for Dirk when he was on the table.

Hello 5 straight titles!

[Mavs_man_41]

Anyone who would pass on Big Al is completely retarded. This twhottt troll is acting like hakeem olajuwon's and ben wallace's are all over the market. Getting a 20 ppg low post scorer is something we can't pass up at all. Who else is fucking out there? Seriously. Gortat?:rollin:rollin:rollin

This guy sounds like SpurFan who said they would rather have Splitter over Amare and even that argument makes more sense than this one

let me log into pussyface so i can say "and now we have the dumb opinion.."

i've always wanted to say that

[Veterinarian]

Anyone who would pass on Big Al is completely retarded. This twhottt troll is acting like hakeem olajuwon's and ben wallace's are all over the market. Getting a 20 ppg low post scorer is something we can't pass up at all. Who else is fucking out there? Seriously. Gortat?:rollin:rollin:rollin

This guy sounds like SpurFan who said they would rather have Splitter over Amare and even that argument makes more sense than this one

:tu

[Mavs_man_41]

and mono..tbh those lineups aren't winning any titles. you're a smart guy but being a mav fan for so long has distorted and flawed you view of basketball. you come up with some great ideas but you have no clue how to construct a winning basketball team. stick to fantasy :tu

[stretch]

This guy sounds like SpurFan who said they would rather have Splitter over Amare and even that argument makes more sense than this one

:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

[Edward]

Nope. tbh my main accoount is no one special or well known here, so you wouldn't guess ever.


symple19?

[BUMP]

i must've missed the point where Haywood/Gortat=championship front line

[stretch]

and mono..tbh those lineups aren't winning any titles. you're a smart guy but being a mav fan for so long has distorted and flawed you view of basketball. you come up with some great ideas but you have no clue how to construct a winning basketball team. stick to fantasy :tu

LMAO thinking a guard duo of Baron Davis and Corey Maggette is going to win a title. the two of them would be taking 40+ shots a game, combined. No bueno.

[Mavs_man_41]

i must've missed the point where Haywood/Gortat=championship front line

don't be so simple minded. they would still need to bring in another creator in the halfcourt to compliment dirk. all i'm saying is a 2 pf lineup = layup line against a team like LA.

[Mavs_man_41]

LMAO thinking a guard duo of Baron Davis and Corey Maggette is going to win a title. the two of them would be taking 40+ shots a game, combined. No bueno.

:lmao

[Edward]

All m>s is saying is Jefferson isn't gonna be what puts Dallas over the top. He never said it won't be an improvement over Damp/Haywood, he said it wouldn't work, and he'd prefer the idea of Haywood/Gortat at center and getting a SG who can score in the halfcourt so Dallas has a player other than Dirk who can.

[monosylab1k]

LMAO thinking a guard duo of Baron Davis and Corey Maggette is going to win a title. the two of them would be taking 40+ shots a game, combined. No bueno.

yeah there's nothing shittier than a backcourt featuring a PG who is a strong defender, great passer, has balls of steel, and hits clutch shots, coupled with a SG who attacks the basket relentlessly and gets to the FT line 8-10 times a game.

[BUMP]

All m>s is saying is Jefferson isn't gonna be what puts Dallas over the top. He never said it won't be an improvement over Damp/Haywood, he said it wouldn't work, and he'd prefer the idea of Haywood/Gortat at center and getting a SG who can score in the halfcourt so Dallas has a player other than Dirk who can.

But Dallas isn't gonna get a SG better than Butler so its a moot point

IMO, this whole argument is pointless cause nobody is stopping LA from getting to the Finals anyway

[Mavs_man_41]

All m>s is saying is Jefferson isn't gonna be what puts Dallas over the top. He never said it won't be an improvement over Damp/Haywood, he said it wouldn't work, and he'd prefer the idea of Haywood/Gortat at center and getting a SG who can score in the halfcourt so Dallas has a player other than Dirk who can.

:tu someone gets it

you should get an award. ps i think u meant MM41

[monosylab1k]

All m>s is saying is Jefferson isn't gonna be what puts Dallas over the top. He never said it won't be an improvement over Damp/Haywood, he said it wouldn't work, and he'd prefer the idea of Haywood/Gortat at center and getting a SG who can score in the halfcourt so Dallas has a player other than Dirk who can.

name all the world class SG's who can create their own offense that are available.

[monosylab1k]

:tu someone gets it

you should get an award. ps i think u meant MM41

nigga QUIT FRONTIN we all know you're m>s

[Edward]

But Dallas isn't gonna get a SG better than Butler so its a moot point

IMO, this whole argument is pointless cause nobody is stopping LA from getting to the Finals anyway


Butler is a SF tbh, one way a legit SG helps Dallas is Butler gets to move back up to SF. They might be able to get Joe Johnson since ATL probably has no inclination to think he's headed back there and would prolly do a S'n'T for Damp's contract + draft picks

[Mavs_man_41]

nigga QUIT FRONTIN we all know you're m>s

i know m>s in real life, we are pretty good friends. i'm the one who told him about this board. that's probably why you think our posting styles are similar.i was on this board long before ms, though.

[Edward]

name all the world class SG's who can create their own offense that are available.


It's mere speculation but Joe Johnson.

[Veterinarian]

tbh Maggette's insane annual 58-60 TS% makes him different than your average chucker who shoots too much.

[monosylab1k]

Butler is a SF tbh, one way a legit SG helps Dallas is Butler gets to move back up to SF. They might be able to get Joe Johnson since ATL probably has no inclination to think he's headed back there and would prolly do a S'n'T for Damp's contract + draft picks

:lmao after a month ago arguing that nobody will do a s/t with Dallas for a legit star, now you're throwing Joe Johnson out there?

[Greg Oden]

It's mere speculation but Joe Johnson.

world class SG's and Joe Johnson don't belong in the same sentence after his awesome display of suck he showed in the playoffs.

[Edward]

:lmao after a month ago arguing that nobody will do a s/t with Dallas for a legit star, now you're throwing Joe Johnson out there?


I said Lebron James, I never said nobody, don't make stuff up. Two completely different situations. Lebron is his own special case since his team's entire future is invested in him resigning with them.

[Mavs_man_41]

the mavs would do better with ray allen signed for the mle and iggy at the 2/3 than bringing in jefferson

kidd/allen/iggy/dirk/gortat is better than anything else propose so far.

[BUMP]

Butler is a SF tbh, one way a legit SG helps Dallas is Butler gets to move back up to SF. They might be able to get Joe Johnson since ATL probably has no inclination to think he's headed back there and would prolly do a S'n'T for Damp's contract + draft picks

Joe Johnson? Another jumpshooter that disappears in the playoffs?

I can already see MavFans now calling for his head next year when we're bounced from the 1st round after he pulls what he did in Atlanta this year

[Mavs_man_41]

or even start beaubois and bring kidd off the bench and see how we do.

[stretch]

yeah there's nothing shittier than a backcourt featuring a PG who is a strong defender, great passer, has balls of steel, and hits clutch shots, coupled with a SG who attacks the basket relentlessly and gets to the FT line 8-10 times a game.

flawed reasoning.

you're talking about what they have the POTENTIAL to do. not what they actually give on a nightly basis.

Davis gives half-assed efforts, can be a turnover machine, and bricks 5 or 6 threes in a single game just as often as he has those nights where he is "a strong defender, great passer, has balls of steel, and hits clutch shots". its pretty evident by his average 3 TOs a game 27% from 3, and 40% from the field.

Maggette had a strong year this year, but typically has mediocre shooting % as well, and takes a lot of bad shots and forces dumb drives, often pushing other scorers out of their comfort zone as he forces dumb offense.

[Edward]

Joe Johnson? Another jumpshooter that disappears in the playoffs?

I can already see MavFans now calling for his head next year when we're bounced from the 1st round after he pulls what he did in Atlanta this year


If he was on Dallas he wouldn't be the biggest threat on the court, defenses wouldn't be able to key in on him, he'd shoot a lot better.

[Veterinarian]

Maggette had a strong year this year, but typically has mediocre shooting % as well, and takes a lot of bad shots and forces dumb drives, often pushing other scorers out of their comfort zone as he forces dumb offense.

Maggette's TS% is in the insane for a go to scorer 58-60% rate annually.

[Edward]

If he was on Dallas he wouldn't be the biggest threat on the court, defenses wouldn't be able to key in on him, he'd shoot a lot better.


Plus he might not have the best coach in the world, but Carlisle's offense is at least better than Mike Woodson's "everyone take turns going 1 on 5" iso offense.

[sribb43]

Haywood won't resign here. RC dicked around with him to much down the stretch and in the playoffs. If another center is brought into Dallas like Gortat, Shaq, Al etc... No way Wood will want to return and split time. Some team with cap space who missed out on the top free agents will blow there load thinking they must spend there $$$ on someone and give it to Wood. I see Wood as one of those guys who gets his $$$, similar to Damp and goes on cruise control and teases us with 20/20 games

[BUMP]

If he was on Dallas he wouldn't be the biggest threat on the court, defenses wouldn't be able to key in on him, he'd shoot a lot better.

That sounds good and all, but we've been saying the same thing about Terry, Kidd, Marion, etc. This moves makes us a better team no doubt, BUT

If I'm the Mavs GM, i know the road through the West goes through LA so i have to build a team to counter them. The best chance to counter them is to build a strong front court. If you have Bynum and Pau constantly guarding two 20 pt scorers, then that will wear them down considerably. Jefferson and Dirk would be just as dynamic if not more than Pau and Bynum.

Gortat and Haywood ain't gonna get it done :nope

[sribb43]

Maggette's TS% is in the insane for a go to scorer 58-60% rate annually.

If Maggs is your 6th/7th man I'm fine with that for scoring off the bench. I want no part of him playing 35 min a night, plus the guy is made of glass

[Mavs_man_41]

That sounds good and all, but we've been saying the same thing about Terry, Kidd, Marion, etc. This moves makes us a better team no doubt, BUT

If I'm the Mavs GM, i know the road through the West goes through LA so i have to build a team to counter them. The best chance to counter them is to build a strong front court. If you have Bynum and Pau constantly guarding two 20 pt scorers, then that will wear them down considerably. Jefferson and Dirk would be just as dynamic if not more than Pau and Bynum.

Gortat and Haywood ain't gonna get it done :nope

it ain't all about the offensive end. what do you not understand about the concept of a layup line? teams will get easy shots on us all game long, whenever they want, and especially in crunch minutes. an undersized SG and empty space will be all that's separating the kobe's and wade's from the rim. playoff games are won with defensive stops down the stretch.

[BUMP]

it ain't all about the offensive end. what do you not understand about the concept of a layup line? teams will get easy shots on us all game long, whenever they want, and especially in crunch minutes. an undersized SG and empty space will be all that's separating the kobe's and wade's from the rim. playoff games are won with defensive stops down the stretch.

Are Gortat and Joe Johnson supposed to turn us into the 2004 Pistons or something?

[Sisk]

What. The. Fuck.
You are not ready to be a spurstalk troll. Log the FUCK out.

:lmao

[Donnie Nelson]

Fellas, we've got alot of scenarios on our plate right now. Just understand that while silence isn't inactivity, it also doesn't mean we think swift action is the proper course.

We love the team we've got currently assembled. That doesn't mean we won't add to it. There's certain bullet points we've got in mind. When those bullet points are reached, then the possibility of action is possible. When the possibility of action becomes a possibility, then we'd certainly look at all avenues to understand the nuances of action within our silence.

[Edward]

Are Gortat and Joe Johnson supposed to turn us into the 2004 Pistons or something?


No but they'd help them a lot defensively while making Dallas a better half court offensive team. Butler and JJ are both good-great perimeter defenders, while Gortat's interior D is underrated. With JJ, Butler could go back to being a defense first player and expend a lot more energy on that side of the court, while JJ also provides a good option to run the 2 man game with Dirk.

People are underrating JJ right now because he sucked in the playoffs, and at the end of the regular season people were overrating him saying he's just as good as Kobe. He can easily be a member of a "big 3" similar to the big 3's that have won championships recently. Unfortunately for Dallas they don't have a 3rd star to pair with Dirk and JJ but together Beaubois and Butler might give them that.

[Donnie Nelson]

Are Gortat and Joe Johnson supposed to turn us into the 2004 Pistons or something?

Gortat is an incredible basketball player. I cream my pants every time I see his sexy bald head. He's a lock for the HOF when it's all said and done. We will be doing everything in our power to add Gortat to the Boys In Blue, even if it means trading Dirk.

Joe Johnson is another story. We don't feel he has the veteran savvy or NBA experience to help this team. We are, however, looking at getting Jerry Stackhouse back. His savvy is what propelled the Bucks to their incredible playoff run.

[BUMP]

No but they'd help them a lot defensively while making Dallas a better half court offensive team. Butler and JJ are both good-great perimeter defenders, while Gortat's interior D is underrated. With JJ, Butler could go back to being a defense first player and expend a lot more energy on that side of the court, while JJ also provides a good option to run the 2 man game with Dirk.

People are underrating JJ right now because he sucked in the playoffs, and at the end of the regular season people were overrating him saying he's just as good as Kobe. He can easily be a member of a "big 3" similar to the big 3's that have won championships recently. Unfortunately for Dallas they don't have a 3rd star to pair with Dirk and JJ but together Beaubois and Butler might give them that.

Eh, i guess we'll just agree to disagree then. I'm not gonna sit here and say i know everything, cause you've probably watched both more than i have so there is no right or wrong its all hypothetical.

One thing i know is that the Mavs are gonna choke in some epic entertaining fashion as usual next postseason, and i for one cannot wait:toast

[BUMP]

Gortat is an incredible basketball player. I cream my pants every time I see his sexy bald head. He's a lock for the HOF when it's all said and done. We will be doing everything in our power to add Gortat to the Boys In Blue, even if it means trading Dirk.

Joe Johnson is another story. We don't feel he has the veteran savvy or NBA experience to help this team. We are, however, looking at getting Jerry Stackhouse back. His savvy is what propelled the Bucks to their incredible playoff run.

:toast

Sounds good as long as we can get Devean George and his championship savvy back

[Findog]

exactly. every time the mavs look into getting one, mavs fans get all asshurt.

Chris Kaman
Zach Randolph
Al Jefferson

always an excuse why they shouldn't get a low post scorer on the trading block. then a bunch of bitching and moaning the next season about how they need a low post scorer.

At this point I'd do the Kaman/Baron Davis trade. I really dislike Davis' injury and quitter history, but if we're talking trying to make the most of Dirk's remaining window, maybe Davis stays healthy and motivated for an entire year. 2007 is what happens when he does. Kaman would be the real jewel however: he's exactly what we need to pair alongside Dirk on the block.

[sribb43]

Fact is the mavs can't get kareem, hakeem, 25 yr old Shaq, Ewing, Robinson to play center. Big Al would be a huge upgrade, I know he is not a true C but other than Dwight, who the fuck is... Problem is Minny would like a 1st rounder in a deal as well as clearing cap space

[sribb43]

At this point I'd do the Kaman/Baron Davis trade. I really dislike Davis' injury and quitter history, but if we're talking trying to make the most of Dirk's remaining window, maybe Davis stays healthy and motivated for an entire year. 2007 is what happens when he does. Kaman would be the real jewel however: he's exactly what we need to pair alongside Dirk on the block.

Davis is absolute garbage, that would be like taking on Brand's contract to get Iggy

[MarkCuban]

Gortat is an incredible basketball player. I cream my pants every time I see his sexy bald head. He's a lock for the HOF when it's all said and done. We will be doing everything in our power to add Gortat to the Boys In Blue, even if it means trading Dirk.

Joe Johnson is another story. We don't feel he has the veteran savvy or NBA experience to help this team. We are, however, looking at getting Jerry Stackhouse back. His savvy is what propelled the Bucks to their incredible playoff run.

I agree bro. Gortat, although he doesn't have a championship, is a true champion who can win at every level. We need to trade Dirk for some aging veterans who bring championship experience who can also help out our future guys like JJ Barea and Matt Carroll. Do you think Derrick Coleman, Glen Rice, and Vin Baker are willing to come out of retirement?

[Edward]

At this point I'd do the Kaman/Baron Davis trade. I really dislike Davis' injury and quitter history, but if we're talking trying to make the most of Dirk's remaining window, maybe Davis stays healthy and motivated for an entire year. 2007 is what happens when he does. Kaman would be the real jewel however: he's exactly what we need to pair alongside Dirk on the block.


Just outa curiosity, how far do you want the Mavs going to make the most outa Dirk's remaining window? They've overpaid a lot of 3rd and 4th tier players (Marion, Kidd as examples from just last year) to keep Dallas competitive with Dirk and their cap situation basically sucks because of it. At what point do you want them to stop shelling out longterm money to complimentary players like Haywood and giving up on winning with Dirk?

I ask because IMO you're talking about giving Brendan Haywood a 5 year deal while being open to absorbing some bad contracts and I'm just curious if you've considered that it might make the rebuilding process worse and longer once Dirk's window is closed if you have a bunch of overpaid role players jamming up the salary cap.

[BUMP]

Fact is the mavs can't get kareem, hakeem, 25 yr old Shaq, Ewing, Robinson to play center. Big Al would be a huge upgrade, I know he is not a true C but other than Dwight, who the fuck is... Problem is Minny would like a 1st rounder in a deal as well as clearing cap space

We could always raise George Mikan from the dead

[Findog]

Davis is absolute garbage, that would be like taking on Brand's contract to get Iggy

Don't you think he's an upgrade over Kidd? He can score in the 1/2 court. I've talked myself into the whole "He'll be motivated on a good team" line. But I hate the way his career has developed. He's a loser.

[Findog]

Just outa curiosity, how far do you want the Mavs going to make the most outa Dirk's remaining window? They've overpaid a lot of 3rd and 4th tier players (Marion, Kidd as examples from just last year) to keep Dallas competitive with Dirk and their cap situation basically sucks because of it. At what point do you want them to stop shelling out longterm money to complimentary players like Haywood and giving up on winning with Dirk?

I ask because IMO you're talking about giving Brendan Haywood a 5 year deal while being open to absorbing some bad contracts and I'm just curious if you've considered that it might make the rebuilding process worse and longer once Dirk's window is closed if you have a bunch of overpaid role players jamming up the salary cap.

I don't care if we end up repeating the nineties. I'd endure that again for a title.

[monosylab1k]

Davis is absolute garbage

now we have the dumb opinion.

Davis is still a great defensive PG, he's still a terrific passer, he still has the ability to get to the rim, and he's still a great shooter when he sets his feet properly. He'll chuck up a few bad shots every game, but that's no different than anybody on the Mavs.

Davis right now is a definite upgrade over Kidd. Kidd's biggest qualities over Davis are his supposed leadership and ability to run the offense. I really haven't seen Kidd do dick to lead the team, and he's just as incompetent running a half-court set as anyone else on the team. Anybody can pass it in to Dirk and stand behind the 3pt line watching.

[monosylab1k]

In fact, Davis can definitely run the offense better than Kidd, because even in fast break opportunties (supposedly Kidd's strong suit) Davis has the ability to finish at the rim, and we all have seen plenty of times where Kidd passes up a wide open layup so that Jason Terry can brick another 3.

[Edward]

I don't care if we end up repeating the nineties. I'd endure that again for a title.


I'd also endure a decade of shit for the Suns to win it all, but that really wasn't my question.

I was asking when in your book, does the risk of absorbing long term outweigh the reward? Haywood for example, when do you stop thinking about the immediate impact he can make to help Dallas and start thinking about how much he'll hurt your cap situation several years down the road?

Obviously Dallas is in win now mode, so they're willing to sacrifice future cap flexibility and draft picks to do whatever it takes to help improve the team short term. I was just asking when you will no longer want Cuban to have that mentality because their chances at winning it all with Dirk are too slim and when you'll want him to start building for the future.

[dallaskd]

Marion is being shopped heavily via ESPN

[Edward]

I'd also endure a decade of shit for the Suns to win it all, but that really wasn't my question.

I was asking when in your book, does the risk of absorbing long term outweigh the reward? Haywood for example, when do you stop thinking about the immediate impact he can make to help Dallas and start thinking about how much he'll hurt your cap situation several years down the road?

Obviously Dallas is in win now mode, so they're willing to sacrifice future cap flexibility and draft picks to do whatever it takes to help improve the team short term. I was just asking when you will no longer want Cuban to have that mentality because their chances at winning it all with Dirk are too slim and when you'll want him to start building for the future.


I didn't wanna come off as making fun Dallas or sounding like I wanted to start an argument but here's what I'm basically saying: Dallas has lost in the 1st round 3 of the last 4 years, and they seem to still have faith in this group to win it all. At what point do you give up on their current core ever winning a championship and decide to blow it up and start over?

[monosylab1k]

Marion is being shopped heavily via ESPN

:lol good luck with all that. the whole point of signing him to that big ass contract was to keep him from getting emo-depressed like he did in Phoenix when he wasn't the center of attention. Now they want to ruin that by openly shopping him and his ridiculous contract?

[Edward]

:lol good luck with all that. the whole point of signing him to that big ass contract was to keep him from getting emo-depressed like he did in Phoenix when he wasn't the center of attention. Now they want to ruin that by openly shopping him and his ridiculous contract?


God only knows how emo he'll get with that. When the Suns were shopping him he was the highest paid player on the team and maybe more overpaid than he is right now. He might get even more butthurt as a role player who they are shopping.

[dallaskd]

:lol good luck with all that. the whole point of signing him to that big ass contract was to keep him from getting emo-depressed like he did in Phoenix when he wasn't the center of attention. Now they want to ruin that by openly shopping him and his ridiculous contract?

ESPN said there was little interest around the league, but Marion is most likely to be packaged with Damp and Damp to return with the vet minimum once he is released by his new team.

[monosylab1k]

the only source I see right now about Marion being shopped is HoopsWorld. I think we can definitely say that he's not being shopped.

[monosylab1k]

ESPN said there was little interest around the league, but Marion is most likely to be packaged with Damp and Damp to return with the vet minimum once he is released by his new team.

If a team wants Damp to dump salary, there's no reason they'd take on Marion's contract with it.

[Findog]

Marion is being shopped heavily via ESPN

Haha...good luck getting rid of that contract.

[dallaskd]

the only source I see right now about Marion being shopped is HoopsWorld. I think we can definitely say that he's not being shopped.

turn on your tv sometime..

[Basketballgirl25]

I didn't wanna come off as making fun Dallas or sounding like I wanted to start an argument but here's what I'm basically saying: Dallas has lost in the 1st round 3 of the last 4 years, and they seem to still have faith in this group to win it all. At what point do you give up on their current core ever winning a championship and decide to blow it up and start over?

well I'm no Mavs fan, but that's a pretty good question to ask people

[Edward]

turn on your tv sometime..


hey, whats up man!

[monosylab1k]

turn on your tv sometime..

Provide some proof beyond "it was on tv I promise".

It's some made up hoopsworld bullshit, nothing more.

[sribb43]

now we have the dumb opinion.

Davis is still a great defensive PG, he's still a terrific passer, he still has the ability to get to the rim, and he's still a great shooter when he sets his feet properly. He'll chuck up a few bad shots every game, but that's no different than anybody on the Mavs.

Davis right now is a definite upgrade over Kidd. Kidd's biggest qualities over Davis are his supposed leadership and ability to run the offense. I really haven't seen Kidd do dick to lead the team, and he's just as incompetent running a half-court set as anyone else on the team. Anybody can pass it in to Dirk and stand behind the 3pt line watching.

You lost me at Davis is still a great defensive Pg.

[monosylab1k]

You lost me at Davis is still a great defensive Pg.

Davis has always been solid defensively, I'm not sure how you can even dispute that. Considering you think he's "garbage" proves you really don't know shit about basketball anyways.

[monosylab1k]

well I'm no Mavs fan, but that's a pretty good question to ask people

stop posting.

[stretch]

What are yall's thoughts on CP3 and Okafor? Perhaps Mavs could trade something like Damp, Terry, and maybe some picks or Barea for them. Resign Haywood and get Gooden to back Dirk up.

PG - CP3, Kidd
SG - Butler, Beaubois
SF - Marion, Stevenson
PF - Nowitzki, Gooden
C - Haywood, Okafor

Damn good lineup.

[sribb43]

Davis has always been solid defensively, I'm not sure how you can even dispute that. Considering you think he's "garbage" proves you really don't know shit about basketball anyways.

I guess you base someone being a good defensive player by looking at steals. You probably think AI and Larry Hughes are great defenders too. You dropping the word great tells me he should be on the All-defensive team consistently

[stretch]

I guess you base someone being a good defensive player by looking at steals. You probably think AI and Larry Hughes are great defenders too. You dropping the word great tells me he should be on the All-defensive team consistently

again, Mono is arguing off POTENTIAL. no question, Davis has the ability to be a damn good defender. not just talking about steals, but he can straight up lock people up. he just doesnt do it very often is the problem. Baron Davis might be the most gifted PG ever, but is a model of inconsistency.

[Edward]

The problem with Davis is that he only plays hard on both ends when he has the freedom to chuck 3's with 22 seconds on the shot clock. I don't see him ever being successful on a team that isn't build around him.

[Findog]

No Mav fan on Mav fan violence, unless we're talking about thedong.

[Edward]

No Mav fan on Mav fan violence, unless we're talking about thedong.


What's wrong with thedong? You didn't like his Dirk Nowitzki Channing Frye comparison :lol

[Findog]

What's wrong with thedong? You didn't like his Dirk Nowitzki Channing Frye comparison :lol

One's a spot-up 3-ball shooter and nothing more, the other is a dynamic and versatile #1 scoring option that takes one 3-pointer a game. Yeah, they're exactly alike. :lol

[sribb43]

again, Mono is arguing off POTENTIAL. no question, Davis has the ability to be a damn good defender. not just talking about steals, but he can straight up lock people up. he just doesnt do it very often is the problem. Baron Davis might be the most gifted PG ever, but is a model of inconsistency.

Most of the guys in the NBA have the potential to be great defenders but chose to be a bunch of lazy fucks when it comes to the defensive end. J-Ho has the potential to be a great defender but I'm not going say he is one merely based of potential.

[monosylab1k]

again, Mono is arguing off POTENTIAL. no question, Davis has the ability to be a damn good defender. not just talking about steals, but he can straight up lock people up. he just doesnt do it very often is the problem. Baron Davis might be the most gifted PG ever, but is a model of inconsistency.

On bad teams he's proven he doesn't give a shit and plays like it.

On good teams he's proven he can be a top 3 PG in the league.

Last I checked, the Mavericks are a good team.

[Basketballgirl25]

stop posting.

no thanks, but love that you are asking very kind

[stretch]

On bad teams he's proven he doesn't give a shit and plays like it.

On good teams he's proven he can be a top 3 PG in the league.

Last I checked, the Mavericks are a good team.

I think only once or twice he's really proven he can be a top 3 PG in the league. Even then, he did exactly what you said... proven he CAN BE. Not that he actually was. I've always been a huge B-Diddy fan, but the dude has never been consistent for his whole career. Not sure if its because he's lazy, or because of the plethora of injuries he's dealt with.

[Chubby_Love]

can spurs and dallas merge next year?
Oh, God! I hope not!

[mikeschy55]

It's this simple guys....

Dirk needs a low post scorer that's not a defensive liability. Andrew Bynum would be great, but probably impossible to get. Dirk also needs a point guard that could at least guard my grandmother so that other teams point guards wouldn't repeatedly rape us in the paint. If Dirk has that, you can plausibly compete with such a team. Until this happens, Dirk will continue to waste away in his prime.

[stretch]

It's this simple guys....

Dirk needs a low post scorer that's not a defensive liability. Andrew Bynum would be great, but probably impossible to get. Dirk also needs a point guard that could at least guard my grandmother so that other teams point guards wouldn't repeatedly rape us in the paint. If Dirk has that, you can plausibly compete with such a team. Until this happens, Dirk will continue to waste away in his prime.

Great ideas! :tu

Unfortunately it's kinda hard to build a dream team that has no weaknesses. The best teams are teams that find ways to mask their weaknesses as much as possible. In the Mavs case, getting a consistent post scorer will make their offensive CONSIDERABLY more efficient, which in turn will lead to increased efficiency on defense. What killed the Mavs most was that they would constantly go through dead stretches where they wouldn't score for 5+ minutes, resulting in a lot of chances for the opponent to get out in transition and get easy buckets. If the Mavs can score with more efficiency, their defense will improve tremendously, the way it did back from 05-07. They were decent defensively, but not great. But having the most efficient offense in the NBA, along with a slower, more calculated offense helped that tremendously. Now, they try to get out and do a lot more running, but often end up taking bad shots, which hurts them a lot on defense and rebounding. They really are not a great running team, and need to slow things down more on offense. The only guy that really should be getting out on the break regularly is Beaubois, and at times, Kidd, as long as others run the floor with him. Terry often was a HUGE reason that the offense would stagnate, as he would settle for and miss long jumpers, without even using much clock up and allowing the offense to try to look for a better shot first. I have said for years now, that the offense truly is the Mavericks weakest link.

[stretch]

Jason Kidd, Rodrigue Beaubois
Caron Butler, Dominique Jones
Lebron James, Shawn Marion
Dirk Nowitzki, Drew Gooden
Brendan Haywood, Marcin Gortat

82-0 :lobt2:

[sribb43]

Cubes basically got back the pick we gave to the nets in the Kidd trade and actually improved 2 spots from #27 to #25. Jones appears to be a proven player who excelled in the best conference in the nation. Very happy with the pick considering what we went into the draft with.

Summer league should be fun this year with Roddy at PG and Jones at Sg

[mavs>spurs2]

we staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacked

[spursfan1000]

we staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacked


Mavericks were last year too.

[MavDynasty]

Mavericks were last year too.

stacked when roddy played, its hard to win playoff games when a 5'9 midget with t rex arms gets curbstomped over and over again on defense. When carlisle actually used roddy, we all saw what happened.

[spursfan1000]

stacked when roddy played, its hard to win playoff games when a 5'9 midget with t rex arms gets curbstomped over and over again on defense. When carlisle actually used roddy, we all saw what happened.


I love how Mavs fans hype that guy up like he is Lebron.

[Shank]

Ok.

[dallasmavsnfuego214]

I love how Mavs fans hype that guy up like he is Lebron.

Its pretty clear that he is 20X better than Barea. SpurFan should know that considering he ran circles around your team when he played in game 6.

In fact even though he barely played he managed to get a 40 point game as our 11th man :wow

[spursfan1000]

Its pretty clear that he is 20X better than Barea. SpurFan should know that considering he ran circles around your team when he played in game 6.

In fact even though he barely played he managed to get a 40 point game as our 11th man :wow


Ok I can almost gurantee he was not in the scouting report and that he caught the Spurs off guard. I guess if Spurs would have played Blair more then Bonner, we are a championship team :toast

[Andrew Bynum]

Jason Kidd, Rodrigue Beaubois
Caron Butler, Dominique Jones
Lebron James, Shawn Marion
Dirk Nowitzki, Drew Gooden
Brendan Haywood, Marcin Gortat

82-0 :lobt2:

What has anyone on that team ever won? Nothing, they're all choking pussies, especially Dirk and Lebron. That team doesn't get out of the West. We do. Cause we stacked. We got rings to prove it, bitch.

[sribb43]

What has anyone on that team ever won? Nothing, they're all choking pussies, especially Dirk and Lebron. That team doesn't get out of the West. We do. Cause we stacked. We got rings to prove it, bitch.

Sounds like a scarred Laker fan who knows a 3 peat won't happen due to the Dallas Mavericks

[MavDynasty]

lol scared

[Shank]

Ok I can almost gurantee he was not in the scouting report and that he caught the Spurs off guard. I guess if Spurs would have played Blair more then Bonner, we are a championship team :toast

They didn't scout Beaubois? Not buying it.

[MavDynasty]

:lmao just like they didn't scout Barea, Bass, and Hollins back in 09

as well as Dirk, Terry, Jho, Devin, Diop back in '06

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

lol spurfan scared that beaubois is here to rape them for the next few seasons

[spursfan1000]

Why would Spur Fan think a good excuse is "our scouting department is full of incompetent assholes who didn't do their job"?



:lmao warriors

[spursfan1000]

:lmao just like they didn't scout Barea, Bass, and Hollins back in 09

as well as Dirk, Terry, Jho, Devin, Diop back in '06

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

lol spurfan scared that beaubois is here to rape them for the next few seasons


I find it hard to believe beabois will even step on the court.

[MavDynasty]

:lmao warriors

lol what a dumbfuck this guy is

[The Third Man]

ESPN said there was little interest around the league, but Marion is most likely to be packaged with Damp and Damp to return with the vet minimum once he is released by his new team.

So, the other team gets a cap break for taking Dampier and cutting him, but also gets a lousy deal for a washed up player in return? Are the Mavericks targeting Gilbert Arenas?

[D-Wade #3]

This thread never expires :lol

[Shank]

So, the other team gets a cap break for taking Dampier and cutting him, but also gets a lousy deal for a washed up player in return? Are the Mavericks targeting Gilbert Arenas?

Marion may not be much of an offensive threat, but he's still a top-notch defender. In that regard, he's far from washed-up. Overpaid, likely, but he's not worthless.

[Come_On_Now]

I believe Jefferson was mentioned in this thread.

David Aldridge mentioned the Wolves shopping for Jefferson's replacement, preferably a defensive center. He specifically named our own Brendan Haywood as a possible target. So isn't it somewhat feasible that we could sign and trade Haywood for Jefferson. Maybe package up our favorite 5'10 Puerto Rican and ship him off with Brendan?

If that were to happen, I would then trade Damp for Okafor, his post-defense could prove valuable if Jefferson is as truly bad defensively as some have professed here, and start Roddy at the 2. Resign Damp after he is cut so we have some bulk and height at the C. We still retain Butler and our two young players to package at the deadline just in case.

Kidd / Roddy / Jones
Roddy / Terry / Jones
Butler / Marion / Stevenson
Dirk / Marion / Okafor
Jefferson / Okafor / Dampier

[MavDynasty]

Was Mavfan actually serious in thinking they would get Lebron? Wow! The accumulation of heart breaking defeats must have really fucked them up in the head. Why else would they be wearing gold teeth while sucking a German's nuts...lol.

lol stinky paki

[DPG21920]

Mavs could easily get Al Jefferson for the Damp contact. Don't know how good of a fit that would be, but talent wise, not a bad grab.

[Ghazi]

Don't think Jefferson would help us much.

[DPG21920]

I also can't believe Mav fan is trying to argue against Joe Johnson. That would be an ideal fit for the Mavs and give them exactly what they need. So now JJ's value is completely derailed because of one bad playoff?

He would not even need to be the main man because you have Dirk. Plus JJ, as he showed in this playoffs, is an underrated defender.

[sribb43]

I also can't believe Mav fan is trying to argue against Joe Johnson. That would be an ideal fit for the Mavs and give them exactly what they need. So now JJ's value is completely derailed because of one bad playoff?

He would not even need to be the main man because you have Dirk. Plus JJ, as he showed in this playoffs, is an underrated defender.

I would love JJ but mavs fans soured on him after his debacle in this years playoffs. I like him as a better fit than Iggy. A pick n pop with JJ would be killer

[DPG21920]

That is what I am saying. Why are Mavs fans devaluing him so bad just because of this one bad playoff? I don't get it. This is an ultimate buy low situation of everyone is doing the same thing.

[monosylab1k]

if the whole point is to shoot less jumpers, Joe Johnson is definitely not the answer.

[Goran Dragic]

if the whole point is to shoot less jumpers, Joe Johnson is definitely not the answer.


If you don't want Dallas to be a jump shooting team then you should want them to trade Dirk and rebuild. Any team built around Dirk is gonna be a jump shooting team.

[mikeschy55]

That is what I am saying. Why are Mavs fans devaluing him so bad just because of this one bad playoff? I don't get it. This is an ultimate buy low situation of everyone is doing the same thing.


It's also because he's 29 yrs old. We'll probably be grossly over paying him the last 3 years of his contract. I'd love him on our team, but only if he's a fall back option.

[BUMP]

If you don't want Dallas to be a jump shooting team then you should want them to trade Dirk and rebuild. Any team built around Dirk is gonna be a jump shooting team.

Goran's right to be honest.

Although i've been saying for years that Dallas can't win a championship with Dirk as their leader. IMO, they should just blow it up, but i know that the FO still thinks they can get by LA (:lmao) and will try and squeeze in every bit of talent they can, just delaying the inevitable

[monosylab1k]

If you don't want Dallas to be a jump shooting team then you should want them to trade Dirk and rebuild. Any team built around Dirk is gonna be a jump shooting team.

Every team in the league is a jump shooting team. Making jumpers is essential. Dallas just shoots too many. You can remedy that. Get a guy like Al Jefferson who can play down low and get easy buckets in the post. Get another slasher. The point isn't to eliminate jump shooting, it's not to replace the franchise player whose style of play took them to the Finals, it's to complement him with players who can play off his style.

[monosylab1k]

Goran's right to be honest.

Although i've been saying for years that Dallas can't win a championship with Dirk as their leader. IMO, they should just blow it up, but i know that the FO still thinks they can get by LA (:lmao) and will try and squeeze in every bit of talent they can, just delaying the inevitable

There was a time when I agreed with this philosophy, but now I see it as completely fucking ignorant and retarded.

People of the "just blow it up" ilk assume that in 3-4 years the team will be rebuilt a la Portland. 99 times out of 100 it doesn't work like that in the NBA.

Most of the time when a team blows up it, they end up like Minnesota. Complete ass for years and years and years.

I'd rather the Mavs milk this for as long as they can, try to push the right buttons and hope they get lucky, than see them blow it up and watch them suck for another decade.

[Goran Dragic]

Every team in the league is a jump shooting team. Making jumpers is essential. Dallas just shoots too many. You can remedy that. Get a guy like Al Jefferson who can play down low and get easy buckets in the post. Get another slasher. The point isn't to eliminate jump shooting, it's not to replace the franchise player whose style of play took them to the Finals, it's to complement him with players who can play off his style.


Dirk got Dallas to the finals taking it to the hole a lot more often than he does these days. Just look at the play that sent game 7 against San Antonio to overtime as example.

I agree Big Al would help them a ton offensively, but that front line is just too weak to have a championship level defense. They'd undoubtedly have a championship level offense, but defensively they'd come up short.

[monosylab1k]

Dirk got Dallas to the finals taking it to the hole a lot more often than he does these days.

Not really. It's gone down some, but not a significant amount. The difference is that Josh Howard, Devin Harris, and Jerry Stackhouse attacked the basket alot more in 06 than they ever did after that. 06 was the last year J-Ho was primarily a slasher, and it shows. The year he fell in love with his jump shot was the year the Mavs started being a regular first round exit.

[Goran Dragic]

Dallas can easily contend as a "jump shooting" team built around Dirk and Joe Johnson, I think you're confusing taking too many jumpers with the wrong players taking jumpers. First off, JJ is one of the best post up shooting guards in the NBA, he just went into jumper mode for the playoffs because Mike Woodson is a lazy dumbass who doesn't hold him team accountable for settling.

If Dallas signs JJ, it has a positive domino effect. Caron Butler gets to move back to small forward where he can play more off ball as a slasher and focus more energy on D. JJ has the creating ability to basically play point while Roddy could play more as a scorer, and when Kidd is in the game JJ can act as the stud spot up shooter he was with Nash. Most importantly, JJ has the midrange game that isn't compromised when there are big bodies like Dampier and Haywood clogging the lane. If they were to sign JJ, trade for Gortat and resign Haywood I'd consider them a contender.

[Goran Dragic]

Not really. It's gone down some, but not a significant amount. The difference is that Josh Howard, Devin Harris, and Jerry Stackhouse attacked the basket alot more in 06 than they ever did after that. 06 was the last year J-Ho was primarily a slasher, and it shows. The year he fell in love with his jump shot was the year the Mavs started being a regular first round exit.


Butler and Beaubois could easily do that imo. Dallas really didn't utilize Butler effectively last season and they would if they had JJ. I'd still call LA the favorite over that team, but it has all the ingredients of a contender. Having Butler and SF and JJ at SG would also make Dallas an elite perimeter defensive team that could give Kobe fits.

[monosylab1k]

I wouldn't cry if JJ was on the Mavs. The team would undoubtedly be better.

I just would rather get a low post guy is all.

[Goran Dragic]

I actually just realized, Al Jefferson could work perfectly for them if they were to get Ray Allen or Mike Miller for the MLE as a defender and spacer. I just think they need to do something about the SG position moreso than anything else.

[mikeschy55]

Dirk and Jefferson would amount to the worst interior defense in the league. We should get Jefferson and package him in a 3 way.

[Basketballgirl25]

I'd rather the Mavs milk this for as long as they can, try to push the right buttons and hope they get lucky, than see them blow it up and watch them suck for another decade.

and if they don't get lucky and keep losing at least you'd be ready for when they do suck. Good thinking.

[MavDynasty]

and if they don't get lucky and keep losing at least you'd be ready for when they do suck. Good thinking.

stop posting

[Mavs_man_41]

stop posting

"no thanks, but thanks for asking so politely!"

/bballbitch

[MavDynasty]

lol what an ugly bitch though seriously crofl


lol cruises

[Goran Dragic]

lol wearing a Nets jersey to a bar

[LOL@MavsFan]

LOL Mavs

[Ghazi]

I disagree that a team built around Dirk has to be a jump shooting team. KG was pretty much a jump shooter in 2008, Kobe was pretty much a jump shooter in 2010. I know their games are different than Dirks, and Dirk takes more jumpers than them. I'm just saying. But Boston/LA were not jump shooting teams.

It just so happens Dirk's been flanked by a lot of jump shooting talent lately... Kidd, Terry, Butler, Bass, Howard.

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with Dirk's jump shooting. The particular shots he takes he is the best in the league at. efficiency isn't an issue.

[Goran Dragic]

I disagree that a team built around Dirk has to be a jump shooting team. KG was pretty much a jump shooter in 2008, Kobe was pretty much a jump shooter in 2010. I know their games are different than Dirks, and Dirk takes more jumpers than them. I'm just saying. But Boston/LA were not jump shooting teams.



The 08 Celtics were a jumpshooting team, I think that with the right players you can win a title as a "jump shooting team".

[Ghazi]

The 08 Celtics were a jumpshooting team, I think that with the right players you can win a title as a "jump shooting team".

True sorta, they got good paint production / FTattempts though, and splendid ball movement. Mavs have been bottom 5 in these 2 categories for the past 4 years, and have very "meh" team passing resulting in a lot of stagnant/wasted possessions.

[timvpimp]

I wouldn't cry if JJ was on the Mavs. The team would undoubtedly be better.

I just would rather get a low post guy is all.
low post what? you need a guy scoring at low-post that's what you mean I guess, but that's not the point of matter I'm afraid to say. Mavs have never built their offense on/around low-post since the team was first founded, and they've stuck to their style ever since.

I think the low-post defense isn't what you meant to point out because the Mavs already play good defense there, with Damp and Haywood as the main guys. As much a crap in offense as he is, Damp is a solid player around the low-post at defensive end and you never see him getting blown out by even the best-ever centers around the league like DH and a younger&healthier Mr. Shite.

[timvpimp]

Every team in the league is a jump shooting team. Making jumpers is essential. Dallas just shoots too many. You can remedy that. Get a guy like Al Jefferson who can play down low and get easy buckets in the post. Get another slasher. The point isn't to eliminate jump shooting, it's not to replace the franchise player whose style of play took them to the Finals, it's to complement him with players who can play off his style.
not really. Mavs jumpshoot too many and they also miss too many, that's the crux IMHO. Mavs just need some more reliable shooters for whom we've got to start with Joe Johnson, or Lebron James for the ideal scenario, not another overrated fucking length like Al.

[Basketballgirl25]

lol what an ugly bitch though seriously crofl


lol cruises

talking about yourself again, that's not very nice don't put yourself down like that.

And what's so funny about cruises? I don't get that part. Maybe it's because I'm not like you and actually get out in the world and travel and don't just watch and talk about stupid basketball teams, but lol at cruises isn't really funny, most people would think what the fuck is that person talking about.

[Basketballgirl25]

lol wearing a Nets jersey to a bar

lol guess you won't wear and Suns or Mavs jersey to a bar? Both teams must suck more then I think:toast

[Basketballgirl25]

stop posting

when you stop I will stop:toast

[Veterinarian]

when you stop I will stop:toast

tbh I'll stop if you stop. Literally, like all of my accounts. Whatever it takes. I would enjoy just lurking here and never posting again more than posting here and having you around. I'll even tell everyone all my troll names.

I'm being dead serious btw. No joking.

[Goran Dragic]

True sorta, they got good paint production / FTattempts though, and splendid ball movement. Mavs have been bottom 5 in these 2 categories for the past 4 years, and have very "meh" team passing resulting in a lot of stagnant/wasted possessions.


That you can blame on coaching. They don't run any half court set other than isoing Dirk, Carlisle shoulda tried running plays to try to free Terry up with off ball screens or plays where Marion is used as a cutter since that's about the only thing he does well in the halfcourt.

[Basketballgirl25]

tbh I'll stop if you stop. Literally, like all of my accounts. Whatever it takes. I would enjoy just lurking here and never posting again more than posting here and having you around. I'll even tell everyone all my troll names.

I'm being dead serious btw. No joking.

I'll stop when the Mav fans stop, we got a deal? I actually just add the people that I disagree with to the ignore list:lol

[Roddy Beaubois]

Dirk got Dallas to the finals taking it to the hole a lot more often than he does these days.

No tbh

http://www.82games.com/0910/09DAL13.HTM
http://www.82games.com/0506/05DAL12A.HTM

[Roddy Beaubois]

Id be happy with Jefferson or Johnson tbh. Both good players. Id probably prefer Johnson.

Kidd/Roddy
Johnson/fuckface
Butler/Marion
Dirk/Gooden
Haywood/center

good lineup. Probably won't win a ring though.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Sources: Mavs to pursue Johnson


Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban will pursue a sign-and-trade to lure Atlanta Hawks free agent Joe Johnson(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Mavericks are unlikely to engage the Cleveland Cavaliers into a sign-and-trade for LeBron James(notes), but Johnson has emerged as a realistic target for the Mavericks. Johnson, is more likely to embrace a sign-and-trade to the contending Mavs than sign a free-agent contract with New York or Chicago, sources said.

“New York is far from his first option,” one source with knowledge of Johnson’s thinking said.

Johnson will meet with New York officials on Thursday in Los Angeles, but sources warn that Johnson is unlikely to choose the Knicks unless he’s joining them as part of a star tandem. He isn’t built – physically or psychologically – to carry a franchise and the prospect of trying to play the part of savior for New York is unrealistic.

The Knicks will turn swiftly to a Plan B that includes Johnson once they believe they’re completely out of the chase for James.

Johnson turned down a four-year, $60 million extension from the Hawks before the season, and it could take an offer in the neighborhood of $90 million to keep him in Atlanta. Johnson had a fine season for the Hawks – averaging 21 points – but faded to 12.8 points per game in the Orlando Magic’s sweep of the Hawks in the Eastern Conference semifinals.

Johnson was raised in Arkansas and has a comfort level living in the Southwest. Johnson, 28, is facing the final major contract of his career, and sources believe he’s far less likely to sign with a team under the cap and cost himself millions than having his agent Arn Tellem aggressively pursue a sign-and-trade. Johnson is determined to get the sixth guaranteed season on a contract that could only come with re-signing in Atlanta or a sign-and-trade arrangement, sources say.

The Mavericks have a pool of talent that could entice Atlanta general manager Rick Sund into making a deal for Johnson. The Mavericks believe they’ll re-sign Dirk Nowitzki(notes), who is expected to opt-out of his contract. They’re intrigued with a lineup that would include Johnson as the shooting guard.

The Hawks are still expected to try and sign Johnson, but sources don’t believe they’ll offer a maximum contract to him. So far, Toronto Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo is the only executive who has suggested he’s willing to do a sign-and-trade for his star. Colangelo will try to get some return on the inevitable loss of All-Star forward Chris Bosh(notes).


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-johnsonmavericks062810

[clambake]

great. even more jumpshots.

[Findog]

Turning Dampier into Joe Johnson is a win. We're not getting LeBron or Wade, and I don't want Bosh. By all means, call Bron and Wade's agent, and when they hang up on us, turn to Johnson.

[clambake]

i sense the front office getting raped.....very soon.

[mavsfan1000]

Joe Johnson will get overpaid and he is very overrated.

[Come_On_Now]

Sources: Mavs to pursue Johnson


Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban will pursue a sign-and-trade to lure Atlanta Hawks free agent Joe Johnson(notes), league sources told Yahoo! Sports.

The Mavericks are unlikely to engage the Cleveland Cavaliers into a sign-and-trade for LeBron James(notes), but Johnson has emerged as a realistic target for the Mavericks. Johnson, is more likely to embrace a sign-and-trade to the contending Mavs than sign a free-agent contract with New York or Chicago, sources said.

“New York is far from his first option,” one source with knowledge of Johnson’s thinking said.

Johnson will meet with New York officials on Thursday in Los Angeles, but sources warn that Johnson is unlikely to choose the Knicks unless he’s joining them as part of a star tandem. He isn’t built – physically or psychologically – to carry a franchise and the prospect of trying to play the part of savior for New York is unrealistic.

The Knicks will turn swiftly to a Plan B that includes Johnson once they believe they’re completely out of the chase for James.

Johnson turned down a four-year, $60 million extension from the Hawks before the season, and it could take an offer in the neighborhood of $90 million to keep him in Atlanta. Johnson had a fine season for the Hawks – averaging 21 points – but faded to 12.8 points per game in the Orlando Magic’s sweep of the Hawks in the Eastern Conference semifinals.

Johnson was raised in Arkansas and has a comfort level living in the Southwest. Johnson, 28, is facing the final major contract of his career, and sources believe he’s far less likely to sign with a team under the cap and cost himself millions than having his agent Arn Tellem aggressively pursue a sign-and-trade. Johnson is determined to get the sixth guaranteed season on a contract that could only come with re-signing in Atlanta or a sign-and-trade arrangement, sources say.

The Mavericks have a pool of talent that could entice Atlanta general manager Rick Sund into making a deal for Johnson. The Mavericks believe they’ll re-sign Dirk Nowitzki(notes), who is expected to opt-out of his contract. They’re intrigued with a lineup that would include Johnson as the shooting guard.

The Hawks are still expected to try and sign Johnson, but sources don’t believe they’ll offer a maximum contract to him. So far, Toronto Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo is the only executive who has suggested he’s willing to do a sign-and-trade for his star. Colangelo will try to get some return on the inevitable loss of All-Star forward Chris Bosh(notes).


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-johnsonmavericks062810
They can have their choice of Dampier (obviously), Barea, Stevenson, Najera, and Terry.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Turning Dampier into Joe Johnson is a win. We're not getting LeBron or Wade, and I don't want Bosh. By all means, call Bron and Wade's agent, and when they hang up on us, turn to Johnson.


Yup, this is the realistic approach, the only drawback for you guys is if Roddy is involved in the trade. If Dallas gets Joe Johnson and resigns Haywood it's a successful off season for them. If they do those things without having to give Beaubois up while also getting a backup center like Gortat it's a very successful off season.