RJ's Contract Details

[Kori Ellis]

For everyone flipping out...
RJ was a bad fit last season, but the Spurs aren't crazy. They must have had some indicator that he would change. He ruined the spacing most of the time when he was on the court. That's the major thing that needs to change - not his scoring or defense.

I know everyone is flipping out because the Spurs didn't make big changes this summer, but despite the sweep - I don't think the Spurs needed to change that much.

A healthy Parker will make a huge difference. You guys somehow are forgetting how good he was when healthy the season before. He was one of the best players in the league.

Splitter will make a big difference (hopefully). His size will obviously be a big asset. Plus they won't have to overuse Bonner. Despite the Bonner hate on the forum, as a role player, he's not atrocious. He just isn't a starting center or a guy who should be relied on in the clutch. Splitter's presence will also allow the Spurs to manage McDyess's minutes. He obviously wakes up in the second half of the season, so the Spurs can limit him early on.

Though I think the George Hill point guard experiment failed, many of you don't. I think he'll continue to be used as a combo guard - more so an off guard. He should continue to develop on both ends of the court and becoming increasingly important to the team. He obviously believes in the Spurs' mantra and is a worker. So I expect him to continue making strides.

If Tony is healthy, then Manu/Tim won't get so worn down throughout the season. Last year, they had to do too much - Tim early in the season and Manu in the second half of the year. By the playoffs, they were both often losing their legs during games.

Blair can beast. You know he can. He just needs to get some more defensive basics down and he'll be a big asset to this team.

And don't throw in the towel on any other changes...just maybe not right now. If the Spurs start losing a lot during the season, they have a big trading chip in Parker.

[MaNu4Tres]

I agree Bogans and Mason sucked and I'm glad they're gone... but Bogans averaged a grand total of 7 mins in the playoffs, and Mason 10 mins.

Which should tell you how non-existent the Spurs' bench was. (Huge weakness; part of it was Pop's fault for investing in the wrong players (Mason, Bogans, Bonner to an extent over Blair).

This was a main reason the Spurs' execution wasn't up to par in the 4th quarters against Phoenix. Pop investing in the wrong players (Mason, Bogans) going into the playoffs and in the playoffs hurt the Spurs chances in the end because Manu, Parker, Hill all had to play too many minutes because the players Pop invested in continued being atrocious. Which left the main play-makers on the perimeter (Parker, Manu and Hill) winded with their hands on their knees in the 4th quarters against Phoenix and even Dallas.

This next year Spurs will have Splitter and Blair (hopefully) over Bonner. Anderson and Hairston over Bogans and Mason (which should be an instant improvement if they are just healthy).

[DPG21920]

If the Spurs have to trade TP the run is over. No matter what happens, RJ's contract hurts the Spurs.

The Spurs aren't dumb, but they make plenty of mistakes. I think the mistake here was making this pre-arranged deal with RJ thinking he would get at least this on the open market. They mis-judged the market and ended up doing something they did not have to. They could have not talked RJ into opting out and had his services for this year and could cut their losses next year or use him as a trade chip this year to improve.

Now if things don't work out, it means losing TP, not RJ.

I am making assumptions here that the Spurs and RJ had a deal in place, which could be wrong. But this contract points to them having a deal.

[ElNono]

Which should tell you how non-existent the Spurs' bench was. (Huge weakness; part of it was Pop's fault for investing in the wrong players (Mason, Bogans, Bonner to an extent over Blair).

This was a main reason the Spurs' execution wasn't up to par in the 4th quarters against Phoenix. Pop investing in the wrong players (Mason, Bogans) going into the playoffs and in the playoffs hurt the Spurs chances in the end because Manu, Parker, Hill all had to play too many minutes because the players Pop invested in continued being atrocious. Which left the main play-makers on the perimeter Parker, Manu and Hill winded with their hands on their knees in the 4th quarters against Phoenix and even Dallas.

This next year Spurs will have Splitter and Blair (hopefully) over Bonner. Anderson and Hairston over Bogans and Mason (which should be an instant improvement if they are just healthy).

Whatever turns out to be, I'll be watching... getting agitated and cursing when Bonner sees the floor... the usual stuff...
Good deal, bad deal, we're just burning time until the season starts, then we get glued to the TV (or the seats)...

If people renege about some of these deals, it's because they're also eager to see a lot of the new and young talent waiting in the wings. Ultimately, we'll see whatever Pop wants us to see, so by the time the whistle blows, we'll just sit back and watch.

[nbaman99]

For everyone flipping out...
RJ was a bad fit last season, but the Spurs aren't crazy. They must have had some indicator that he would change. He ruined the spacing most of the time when he was on the court. That's the major thing that needs to change - not his scoring or defense.

I know everyone is flipping out because the Spurs didn't make big changes this summer, but despite the sweep - I don't think the Spurs needed to change that much.

A healthy Parker will make a huge difference. You guys somehow are forgetting how good he was when healthy the season before. He was one of the best players in the league.

Splitter will make a big difference (hopefully). His size will obviously be a big asset. Plus they won't have to overuse Bonner. Despite the Bonner hate on the forum, as a role player, he's not atrocious. He just isn't a starting center or a guy who should be relied on in the clutch. Splitter's presence will also allow the Spurs to manage McDyess's minutes. He obviously wakes up in the second half of the season, so the Spurs can limit him early on.

Though I think the George Hill point guard experiment failed, many of you don't. I think he'll continue to be used as a combo guard - more so an off guard. He should continue to develop on both ends of the court and becoming increasingly important to the team. He obviously believes in the Spurs' mantra and is a worker. So I expect him to continue making strides.

If Tony is healthy, then Manu/Tim won't get so worn down throughout the season. Last year, they had to do too much - Tim early in the season and Manu in the second half of the year. By the playoffs, they were both often losing their legs during games.

Blair can beast. You know he can. He just needs to get some more defensive basics down and he'll be a big asset to this team.

And don't throw in the towel on any other changes...just maybe not right now. If the Spurs start losing a lot during the season, they have a big trading chip in Parker.

Also looks like James Anderson is good pick from the draft, so if you really think about it, we are much better than the last year. Plus, it been said that Pop coaching Jefferson privately, so i guess he is ready to play like the way he can. If the guy score 2 to 5 more points than last year and improve his defence we're ok. Specially now we have Tiago also.

[lurker23]

Great post, Kori. Agree with you on pretty much everything. While I think Hill is better at the 2 than at the 1, I don't think it's that detrimental to the team to have him run point 10-15 mpg. Also, if Pop is really as high on Temple as he's been in the media, I still think there's a chance he gets most of the backup pg minutes, allowing Hill to focus more on sg. Of course, it's hard to say if that option runs into the same combo-guard-as-pg issues.

[Agloco]

2005 roster people:
HtWtBirth DateExpCollege

17 Brent Barry
12 Bruce Bowen
23 Devin Brown
21 Tim Duncan
20 Manu Ginobili
Dion Glover
5 Robert Horry
43 Linton Johnson
4 Sean Marks
34 Tony Massenburg
2 Nazr Mohammed
8 Rasho Nesterovic
9 Tony Parker
33 Glenn Robinson
31 Malik Rose
14 Beno Udrih
Mike Wilks


All NBA Type stuff huh??????

Yes as a matter of fact, thanks for pointing that out. :rolleyes



Team game people that extends past one player or another. Lets let RJ show us he is a complete coward befor we burn him to the stake :nope

Problem is that now you've replaced key people like Bowen, Barry and Horry with the likes of RJ and Bonner and Mason. Add to that the fact that that Manu and Timmy are not the same players anymore and you get why the Spurs are in decline (and why Splitter, Anderson, etc, etc. won't make any sort of difference). At least "Money Mase" wont be around to rob us of another years salary. Too bad the same can't be said for the other two amigos.

[Kori Ellis]

Great post, Kori. Agree with you on pretty much everything. While I think Hill is better at the 2 than at the 1, I don't think it's that detrimental to the team to have him run point 10-15 mpg. Also, if Pop is really as high on Temple as he's been in the media, I still think there's a chance he gets most of the backup pg minutes, allowing Hill to focus more on sg. Of course, it's hard to say if that option runs into the same combo-guard-as-pg issues.

Neither do I, as long as Manu is in the game, because then he's not really running it :)

[HarlemHeat37]

Meh, the contender talk is kind of pointless IMO..

The Spurs should definitely be better, just sit back and watch, while hoping for a bunch of IFs to come through..they were going to try and win in Duncan's last few years anyways, I guess this is the best they can realistically come up with..they do have some major upgrades if they stay healthy..

As far as I'm concerned, Miami will easily win the title, barring injuries, so I'm just going to enjoy the Spurs and Duncan's last years, while hoping for the best..

[Big P]

Jeff McDonald: RJ's deal: 2010-11 ($8.4 million); 2011-12 ($9.282 million); 2012-13 ($10.164 million); 2012-13 ($11.046 million). Twitter

[DPG21920]

Kori, what did you mean when you said if the Spurs start losing they have a trade chip in TP?

Do you think that signifies the official end of the run or do you think they can trade TP and actually get better next year?

[Kori Ellis]

Also looks like James Anderson is good pick from the draft, so if you really think about it, we are much better than the last year. Plus, it been said that Pop coaching Jefferson privately, so i guess he is ready to play like the way he can. If the guy score 2 to 5 more points than last year and improve his defence we're ok. Specially now we have Tiago also.

Well Jefferson said he hasn't been working out at all - so I don't know if that's true.

But yeah, I think the Spurs improved this summer. Even just with Tony's health and the acquisition of Splitter, that's a step up. Will it be enough to contend? I guess we'll find out.

[Agloco]

He picks that option up, Spurs trade him or buy him out. Sure, it might be his own decision, but he doesn't really get to stay with the team. He will get the money and then look for another new contract.

So my question would be, why the hell does this kind of option exist anyway? It has no meaningful purpose at all because it is definitely guaranteed that Jefferson will pick up the option. They aren't fooling anyone here.

Just as he picked up this one.

[Kori Ellis]

Kori, what did you mean when you said if the Spurs start losing they have a trade chip in TP?

Do you think that signifies the official end of the run or do you think they can trade TP and actually get better next year?

They could get better - I have no idea who they would trade for though. Personally, I don't think the team is going to be as horrible as some people think. RJ just needs to watch A LOT of tape.

[DPG21920]

They could get better - I have no idea who they would trade for though. Personally, I don't think the team is going to be as horrible as some people think. RJ just needs to watch A LOT of tape.

It is hard for me to fathom trading TP and getting better short term. Long term I can certainly see though.

I don't think anyone thinks the Spurs are going to be terrible. Everyone knows they will be good, better than last year, but that is not the goal for the Spurs & Tim.

[DMX7]

Stupidest move this franchise has ever made, ever.

[DesignatedT]

Our supporting cast of RJ,Hill,Blair,Splitter,Dyess,Anderson is one of the best we have ever had. People saying were done have every right to believe that but to say its because of resigning RJ or even Bonner is just plain retarded. If we are indeed "done" than its because our big 3 aren't good enough. plain and simple. Our last title we had a supporting cast that is no where near as talented as the one we have now. We had an aging Bowen and Finley rounded out by guys like Oberto, Jacque Vaughn and Francisco Elson.

You can make the argument of "well they fit in the system" all you want. RJ is the best SF we have had since Elliott and the cast we have is plenty good to win a championship. Whether it happens or not will be on our big 3. maybe they are done, who knows but its always been up to those 3 guys.

[ElNono]

Well Jefferson said he hasn't been working out at all - so I don't know if that's true.

But yeah, I think the Spurs improved this summer. Even just with Tony's health and the acquisition of Splitter, that's a step up. Will it be enough to contend? I guess we'll find out.

My head tells me I don't think it will be enough. My heart will make me invest in League Pass + ticket for a couple of games + make me cheer for them anyways. :lol

[DPG21920]

RJ's signing signifies why the Spurs run is over imo. It is not "him", but he is what they did not need coming off a sweep when the goal is to win a title. They needed to get creative and pull off a ballsy move.

[elemento]

people still claiming that Pop has coached Jefferson privately ROFL

They haven't done shit !!

It's such a bad contract that it makes me sad to be honest. Too much money and too long.

Do you guys really think Parker is going to resign for less then the max ? And to play with guys like Bonner and RJ ?

I mean, RJ got a 40m/4y playing like shit. Of course Parker is going to want much more than that.And he deserves it.

This bad contract is going to affect Spurs future in a bad way. Mark my words. Parker is not going to resign with the Spurs.

[DesignatedT]

RJ's signing signifies why the Spurs run is over imo. It is not "him", but he is what they did not need coming off a sweep when the goal is to win a title. They needed to get creative and pull off a ballsy move.

like what? lol

[ElNono]

Our supporting cast of RJ,Hill,Blair,Splitter,Dyess,Anderson is one of the best we have ever had.

I don't agree. At all.

[DPG21920]

like what? lol

Like not going back to the well that got them swept. Staying pretty much status quo we all know would not cut it.

Signing Tiago + a rookie is not enough and they know it.

But they got under the tax line and they will be competitive.

[DesignatedT]

I don't agree. At all.

you give that cast to duncan in 04 and in 06 and they win it all.

[DPG21920]

This is not 04 and 06 and Pau/Kobe & Wade/Bron/Bosh weren't playing together.

[DesignatedT]

Like not going back to the well that got them swept. Staying pretty much status quo we all know would not cut it.

Signing Tiago + a rookie is not enough and they know it.

But they got under the tax line and they will be competitive.

soooooo like what?

[objective]

Over 9 million a year for a 30 year old who was sat down in crunch-time for about half the playoff games, averaged about 9 points a game in the playoffs, and who only had about 3 good playoff games out of 10, and lost his supposed 4th scorer responsibilities to George Hill and even got benched in the regular season . . .

I can see why some people aren't jumping for joy.

[DPG21920]

soooooo like what?

I am not a GM. You want me to come up with some random idea? I have a concept, but to give specific players is difficult.

[DPG21920]

you give that cast to duncan in 04 and in 06 and they win it all.

Talk about opinion :lol

[ElNono]

you give that cast to duncan in 04 and in 06 and they win it all.

Two rookies that have not played a single NBA minute? Really?

There's a lot of 'potential' in your take, but little really grounded in reality.

[DesignatedT]

This is not 04 and 06 and Pau/Kobe & Wade/Bron/Bosh weren't playing together.

I understand this but then you sit up here like you were expecting kobe fucking bryant to sign here this summer or for us to look into getting bosh and wade to san antonio. I mean I don't understand what you wanted. The team we have is good. It's a really good team and it has a shot. What did you want them to do besides not bringing back RJ (I understand this, I think the whole damn board knows you didn't want RJ) so who did you want?

[DesignatedT]

Two rookies that have not played a single NBA minute? Really?

There's a lot of 'potential' in your take, but little really grounded in reality.

:lol yeah yeah.

[Marcus Bryant]

:lol

Oh my. Since when are Spurs fans such cheapskates? Hey, the Spurs saved a lot of effing money with that Scola trade. Man, that was awesome.

If you find yourself worked up about this contract, drink.

[DesignatedT]

my point was more of this supporting cast is plenty good for the big 3 to win. or atleast it would have been a couple years back.

[ElNono]

I understand this but then you sit up here like you were expecting kobe fucking bryant to sign here this summer or for us to look into getting bosh and wade to san antonio. I mean I don't understand what you wanted. The team we have is good. It's a really good team and it has a shot. What did you want them to do besides not bringing back RJ (I understand this, I think the whole damn board knows you didn't want RJ) so who did you want?

I tell you what we could have done. We could have actively looked for teams that wanted Bonner or RJ, and worked on a S&T to bring an actual defensive specialist in the wing who is not soft as hell, and potentially another good shooter or two who don't happen to choke in the playoffs.

[objective]

Duncan in 04 had his own version of RJ, a choking afraid-to-shoot wing player named Hedo Turkoglu.

Difference between then and now is that Hedo was 24 with his best years ahead of him whom the Spurs weren't even offering the MLE. RJ is 30 with his best years behind him who is getting over 9 per. And also Hedo was even worse than RJ PER-wise.

[yavozerb]

RJ's signing signifies why the Spurs run is over imo. It is not "him", but he is what they did not need coming off a sweep when the goal is to win a title. They needed to get creative and pull off a ballsy move.

Maybe, maybe not...It might have been over years ago, we will find out soon enough. I honestly believe RJ will be much better in the coming season. I guess when you say "ballsy move" I guess you are referring to move like trading a couple of trash contracts for legit sf to help...It is never that easy and the spurs in my opinion in the championship years never had the most talent on one team, they just simply became the best TEAM. These guys just simply have to stay healthy and play together (which they could not do last season) to have any chance (yes, they have a chance)at another championship

[ElNono]

:lol

Oh my. Since when are Spurs fans such cheapskates? Hey, the Spurs saved a lot of effing money with that Scola trade. Man, that was awesome.

If you find yourself worked up about this contract, drink.

Come on Marcus.

If we would have addressed some of the problems we had last playoffs, then this would be hardly noticed. But not only we stick with what hasn't been working for a while now, we're also jeopardizing extending Parker because of it.

[Marcus Bryant]

What exactly are the Spurs saving money for at this point? In two years it's back to playing the lottery.

[ohmwrecker]

Like not going back to the well that got them swept. Staying pretty much status quo we all know would not cut it.

Signing Tiago + a rookie is not enough and they know it.

But they got under the tax line and they will be competitive.

RJ is not the only reason the Spurs got swept (or the reason that the Spurs struggled all year for that matter). Nobody on the team showed championship effort in that Suns series and it is no surprise they got their asses kicked. The Spurs struggled all year, never came together for any significant stretch, snuck into the playoffs and blew their wad on the Dallas Mavericks. They had nothing left for Phoenix and it showed.

The Spurs are going to try and tweak the line-up for another run this season and as fans, we should give them the benefit of the doubt and not hang them out to dry before a single game is played.

C'mon, Dude. You're bumming me out.

[MaNu4Tres]

I tell you what we could have done. We could have actively looked for teams that wanted Bonner or RJ, and worked on a S&T to bring an actual defensive specialist in the wing who is not soft as hell, and potentially another good shooter or two who don't happen to choke in the playoffs.

What defensive specialist was available?..We've gone down this road before..


Trading Richard Jefferson's contract for a "better fit" is virtually impossible to do.

There's less than a handful of guys out there to begin with that are a great fit for the Spurs. Three criteria exists for such a player IMO:
1) Defensive oriented- great one on one perimeter defender
2) Can hit the three with consistency
3) Long enough to be as effective guarding the longer, taller wings in the league such as( Melo, Durant, LeBron, Roy, Kobe, Joe Johnson ect.)

Wings 6'7 and above (exception Lee)on the top of my head that exhibit one criteria (defensive oriented):In order IMO

1. Thabo Sefolosha
2. Luc Mbah a Moute
3. Trevor Ariza
4. Gerald Wallace
5. Shane Battier
6. Stephen Jackson
7. Courtney Lee
8. Nicolas Batum
9. Ronnie Brewer
10. Martell Webster

Now you filter those guys into the category: Can spread the floor by shooting the 3 ball with consistency.

1. Thabo Sefolosha (barely)
3. Trevor Ariza
5. Shane Battier
6. Stephen Jackson
7. Courtney Lee
8. Nicolas Batum
10. Martell Webster

Now lets see how available these 7 guys are:

1. Thabo Sefolosha- Signed a very cheap-valued extension with the Thunder that runs through 2014. Virtually impossible to pry away from Thunder. Only makes roughly 3 million a year. Virtually untouchable.
2. Trevor Ariza- IMO was underpaid by the Rockets with the MLE. Highly doubt Rockets are looking to trade him due to his relatively cheap contract for the amount of production he puts on the court on both ends. Most likely not available
3. Shane Battier - Could be available at the trade deadline if Rockets aren't in contention due to his expiring contract. Won't know his availability til mid-February. Even so it's less likely Morey gives such a valuable piece to a division rival.
4. Stephen Jackson- Leading the Bobcats to the playoffs for the first time makes him virtually untouchable being owned by Jordan's competitive spirit, unless Bobcats are the Nets of the league by the trading deadline. Then Bobcats may consider parting ways with their long-term expensive contracts. (Won't know his availability til mid-February)
5. Courtney Lee - Still on a very cheap rookie scale salary. His productivity output surpasses his salary by a wide margin. Making his availability less likely.
6. Nicolas Batum- See above
7. Martell Webster- Has a contract that pays him 4.8 next year and 5.2 the next with a team option for the 3rd year in 2013. Could be trade-able with the improvement of Batum, if they draft a wing with the 22nd pick. They were interested in Jefferson at the 2009 trading deadline. Jefferson plus 20th pick for Webster+Pryzbilla's expiring(player value insignificant with torn patella tendon)+ maybe Fernandez or Cunningham may get the Blazers to think for at least a second. (Possibly available)

As you can see there's virtually no "better fit's" out there that are realistically possible for the Spurs to attain.

All in all, Spurs fan's underestimated the value Bruce Bowen brought to the Spurs. He was a key component in the efficient well-oiled machine on both ends of the court that lasted from 2003 to 2008. Looking for such a player will be virtually impossible to attain.


IMO With this reasoning Spurs are better off keeping Jefferson. Perhaps a summer with Chip can do wonders for his confidence and revitalize the 40% clip he shot from the distance with the Bucks just a year ago.


In regard of the thread...

IMO These things need to happen for Spurs to have a better chance at competing for a championship:

1. Sign Splitter

2. Find a 5th wing to step up and be consistent on both ends night in and night out. ( Through the draft, free agency or have Hairston or Gee really improve and step up to the plate.) *Preferably a wing with height and length*

3. The improvement of Richard Jefferson. Sick Chip Engelland on him the entire summer and revamp his confidence. A more consistent Jefferson on the offensive end would do wonders for his overall hustle and activity on the defensive end.

4. The improvement of Blair and Hill.

Those 4 things plus Manu and Tony having the summer off to rest and work on their respective games can catapult the Spurs into contention for number 5. IMO

In other words....A fresh coat of paint

[DesignatedT]

I tell you what we could have done. We could have actively looked for teams that wanted Bonner or RJ, and worked on a S&T to bring an actual defensive specialist in the wing who is not soft as hell, and potentially another good shooter or two who don't happen to choke in the playoffs.

I just see this being really damn hard to accomplish. Just because we pick up the phone and call a good shooter doesn't mean they are willing to come here for such little money we have. S&T I am sure could be a possibility but I'm a little confused thinking about a defensive specialist wing who isn't soft as hell that could come in and pick up the system and be better than RJ will be this upcoming year. Oh and then when we do find a player that might fit well, the team that were going to trade to has to agree to trading a SF for a SF.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Like not going back to the well that got them swept. Staying pretty much status quo we all know would not cut it.

Signing Tiago + a rookie is not enough and they know it.

But they got under the tax line and they will be competitive.

How people forget we beat the second seed.

[Vic Petro]

For everyone flipping out...
RJ was a bad fit last season, but the Spurs aren't crazy. They must have had some indicator that he would change.

My worry is that they were just painted into a corner. They acquired RJ as a two year gamble knowing they could completely retool again in 2011. When RJ opted out, however, they were stuck. RJ and his agent knew that the Spurs couldn't acquire a veteran replacement they'd have confidence in, and essentially played a game of chicken.

"RJ would definitely be open to returning. Make us an offer. {offer made}. Listen, RJ liked it there, he really did. But he was a little uncomfortable. He's going to look around and see what kind of deal he can get. "

And let the Spurs sweat. Sure, there was a chance they'd just sign a vet with their LLE and roll with him and Hairston, but it was unlikely given that they are in such a "win now" mode for Tim. The agent and RJ know how Pop/RC feel about Duncan, and gambled that they wouldn't let him go into what could be his 2nd to last season surrounded by kids.

So they called the Spurs' bluff. They strung San Antonio along, maybe even overplayed RJs desire to go elsewhere just to squeeze more money out of them. And Pop/RC knew this had to be the guy because he was the only one available to them. That's why they didn't lower their offer even though the market for RJ dipped well below. If they had to "convince" him to come back, they might've even sweetened their offer to get him to agree. :depressed

A two year gamble turns into a five year gamble, and the FO is willing to take on a bad contract (or two) for Tim's sake. They'll just work their ass off to help Jefferson and the kids improve, and hope that's enough.

I'm not claiming this is definitely how it went down. It's a pretty shitty scenario, but certainly a plausible one.

[My Fault]

Jefferson isn't a lock down defender but that wasn't the problem last year. It was interior defense and overall team defense. Everybody was confused and missed rotations leaving shooters wide open. Not to mention a bench that had Bogens and Mason. Boston didn't have a lock down defender but played great team defense. I think Jefferson was overpaid but not to the extreme everyone is implying. He is still a very talented player who played very good at times last year.

[Marcus Bryant]

When TD's deal is up, that will free $20 million in cap room, so give it a rest already.

[DesignatedT]

People that keep objecting this signing continue to make no sense... unless you would rather have blown the team up. Because there is no way in hell what he have or what we could have gotten is better than what RJ is and could be.

[Brazil]

To make a long story short, this signing is:
- Good for the short term
- Bad for the long term

[DesignatedT]

How people forget we beat the second seed.

it doesn't matter to them... that series was a "toss up".

[Marcus Bryant]

In the long term the Spurs will be playing the lottery. So who cares?

[Brazil]

To make a long story short, this signing is:
- Good for the short term
- Bad for the long term


In the long term the Spurs will be playing the lottery. So who cares?

winner !

[Chomag]

How people forget we beat the second seed.

I thought Spurs were playing for championships.

[ElNono]

What defensive specialist was available?..We've gone down this road before..

I'll take any of these guys over a 4/$40m RJ...

Mike Miller
Kyle Korver
Raja Bell

And yes, you can work out a S&T if you find a team with cap space that wants RJ or Bonner. I'm not saying it's guaranteed you could land those guys (they can always decide not to come play for us), but we didn't actively try. Bonner was signed up a day after the market opened.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'll take any of these guys over a 4/$40m RJ...

Mike Miller
Kyle Korver
Raja Bell


Spurs couldn't afford them with the 2.635 million that was available from the MLE.

:lol and two of those options aren't even close to being defensive oriented.



And yes, you can work out a S&T if you find a team with cap space that wants RJ or Bonner. I'm not saying it's guaranteed you could land those guys (they can always decide not to come play for us), but we didn't actively try. Bonner was signed up a day after the market opened.

There was no defensive specialist realistically available to even try to work a sign and trade. Go read my last post.

Just because a team has cap space doesn't mean you can work out a sign and trade. The other team has to have a need for the player you are signing and trading. Pretty much all of the teams with significant cap space already had a valuable starting small-forward (which takes R.J out of the picture).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I thought Spurs were playing for championships.

Of course we are but the point is that while we got swept by the Suns we did beat a very good Dallas team. People want to make it seem that last years squad was light years away from doing anything.

[ElNono]

I just see this being really damn hard to accomplish. Just because we pick up the phone and call a good shooter doesn't mean they are willing to come here for such little money we have. S&T I am sure could be a possibility but I'm a little confused thinking about a defensive specialist wing who isn't soft as hell that could come in and pick up the system and be better than RJ will be this upcoming year. Oh and then when we do find a player that might fit well, the team that were going to trade to has to agree to trading a SF for a SF.

None of that. And we could have spent just as much as we spent on RJ.
It's called a double sign and trade. We sign RJ for whatever contract the team that wants him offers him, the other team signs the player we've offered a contract and agreed to come over, then you simply trade. You balance off the contract with whatever smaller contracts.

Has nothing to do with little money, trading a SF for a SF. It's about getting creative and actively looking for deals and a partner instead of handing out silly contracts the first day of free agency.

I believe this is perfectly legal, but people can feel free to correct me.

[Spurs Brazil]

RJ is the best SF we have had since Elliott and the cast we have is plenty good to win a championship.

Bruce Bowen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>RJ

[DPG21920]

I understand this but then you sit up here like you were expecting kobe fucking bryant to sign here this summer or for us to look into getting bosh and wade to san antonio. I mean I don't understand what you wanted. The team we have is good. It's a really good team and it has a shot. What did you want them to do besides not bringing back RJ (I understand this, I think the whole damn board knows you didn't want RJ) so who did you want?

No. No one expected Kobe or Bosh. But no one expected to sign a bad fit long-term.

They also expected the Spurs to really try and pursue winning a title. Even if that meant paying luxury tax and taking on a bad contract.

They didn't. The cheap skated under the luxury tax and still took on a shit contract that does nothing to help win a title.

If they wanted to win, they could have traded for Iggy or someone like that. His contract sucks to, but it would have shaken things up and given the Spurs a better chance at winning (more than likely).

Something like that.


RJ is not the only reason the Spurs got swept (or the reason that the Spurs struggled all year for that matter). Nobody on the team showed championship effort in that Suns series and it is no surprise they got their asses kicked. The Spurs struggled all year, never came together for any significant stretch, snuck into the playoffs and blew their wad on the Dallas Mavericks. They had nothing left for Phoenix and it showed.

The Spurs are going to try and tweak the line-up for another run this season and as fans, we should give them the benefit of the doubt and not hang them out to dry before a single game is played.

C'mon, Dude. You're bumming me out.

I never said RJ is the only reason the Spurs lost or got swept. What I am saying is that knowing he did not fit and the team's goal was winning a title, but ended up in being swept in the 2nd round, they HAD to do something different. Anything. The only thing they could not do imo is exactly what they did. Overpay a bad fit who does nothing to *realistically help now or later.

His upside now was not worth the risk they took on long term. Other players, like Iggy for example (whom most think is available for cheap) at least have upside to their bad contracts.

[Spurs Brazil]

JMcDonald_SAEN
Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

[My Fault]

People that keep objecting this signing continue to make no sense... unless you would rather have blown the team up. Because there is no way in hell what he have or what we could have gotten is better than what RJ is and could be.
They want a player that doesn't exist. There's not another Bowen and nobody like him available. Like MB said what will it matter long term as the team will be nothing more than a lottery team.

[ElNono]

Spurs couldn't afford them with the 2.635 million that was available from the MLE.

:lol and two of those options aren't even close to being defensive oriented.


See this post:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4528986&postcount=557

And Korver and Miller are simply better fits. Better spot up shooters and as good or better defenders than RJ.

[DPG21920]

:lol Stop saying that "if you don't like this signing, you want them to blow it up".

They are not mutually exclusive. The Spurs are not likely true contenders with or without RJ. Same spot in our book because the goal is to win a title. We know RJ is not that guy.

[anakha]

Stupidest move this franchise has ever made, ever.

Easy there, Seabiscuit.

[MaNu4Tres]

See this post:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4528986&postcount=557


That scenario is about as far-fetched as it can possibly be.
Unrealistic and extremely far fetched.

Spurs would have to of wanted a specific player and the team to which the player comes from has to want and have a need for the player you are signing and trading. That is not a simple trade by any means.

That is a far-fetched scenario.

[elemento]

Sad to see people happy just because we beat the biggest choker team in NBA. who cares if we beat the 2nd seed ! It's the mavs. Everyone can beat them in the playoffs. They're chokers. Just ask GSW !

We got swept after we beat them ! Last time it happened was against the Lakers with Shaq in his prime and Kobe.

Now we have the same team with 2 rookies. One starter is clearly a bad fit (has never been a good defender and has never been a good 3-point shooter) and our best 3-point shooter can't hit crap in it matters.

Why should we be happy?

[SouthTexasRancher]

When TD's deal is up, that will free $20 million in cap room, so give it a rest already.

:tu :toast

[dbestpro]

My prediction is everyone will be kissing RJs ass when he is averaging 17 ppg come January. Everyone will act like it was the other guy that was whining about RJ.

[My Fault]

I'll take any of these guys over a 4/$40m RJ...

Mike Miller
Kyle Korver
Raja Bell

And yes, you can work out a S&T if you find a team with cap space that wants RJ or Bonner. I'm not saying it's guaranteed you could land those guys (they can always decide not to come play for us), but we didn't actively try. Bonner was signed up a day after the market opened.

IF you find a team with cap space that WANTS them and IF those players wanted to come to the Spurs. You mention the two reason why the Spurs couldn't land those players but failed to see why they didn't?

[SouthTexasRancher]

Sad to see people happy just because we beat the biggest choker team in NBA. who cares if we beat the 2nd seed ! It's the mavs. Everyone can beat them in the playoffs. They're chokers. Just ask GSW !

We got swept after we beat them ! Last time it happened was against the Lakers with Shaq in his prime and Kobe.

Now we have the same team with 2 rookies. One starter is clearly a bad fit (has never been a good defender and has never been a good 3-point shooter) and our best 3-point shooter can't hit crap in it matters.

Why should we be happy?



Well whiner, I doubt that anything can make you happy. All you ever do is bitch, bitch and bitch some more. Go out and get a job so that you can then work on getting a life!!! :ihit

[Chomag]

Of course we are but the point is that while we got swept by the Suns we did beat a very good Dallas team. People want to make it seem that last years squad was light years away from doing anything.

About every playoff team beats the Mavs, they are like the official NBA playoff wiping boys. Just about every playoff team loves it when they get to match up against the Mavs.

Ask, Sacramento, Phoenix, Miami, Golden State, New Orleans, and Denver. Other then the Spurs all teams that have beaten the Mavs in just the last 10 years.

Beating them just dosn't seem like a whole lot to write home about. Need we not forget we were not only beaten but we were swept by the Suns. If the goals are just to make the playoffs and do well sure, but Spurs goals right now are championship or bust, so anything less is a complete disapointment.

[DesignatedT]

None of that. And we could have spent just as much as we spent on RJ.
It's called a double sign and trade. We sign RJ for whatever contract the team that wants him offers him, the other team signs the player we've offered a contract and agreed to come over, then you simply trade. You balance off the contract with whatever smaller contracts.

Has nothing to do with little money, trading a SF for a SF. It's about getting creative and actively looking for deals and a partner instead of handing out silly contracts the first day of free agency.

I believe this is perfectly legal, but people can feel free to correct me.

why dont we see other teams doing it?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

About every playoff team beats the Mavs, they are like the official NBA playoff wiping boys. Just about every playoff team loves it when they get to match up against the Mavs.

Ask, Sacramento, Phoenix, Miami, Golden State, New Orleans, and Denver. Other then the Spurs all teams that have beaten the Mavs in just the last 10 years.

Beating them is not a whole lot to write home about. Need we not forget we were not only beaten but we were swept by the Suns. If the goals are just to make the playoffs and do well sure, but Spurs goals right now are championship or bust, so anything less is a complete disapointment.

Whatever, you guys go ahead and have your crying meltdown. Ciao.

[MaNu4Tres]

why dont we see other teams doing it?

Because it's a fantasy- far-fetched- unrealistic scenario.

[ElNono]

That scenario is about as far-fetched as it can possibly be. Unrealistic and extremely far fetched.

Spurs would have to of wanted a specific player and the team to which the player comes from has to want and have a need for the player you are signing and trading. That is not a simple trade by any means.

That is a far-fetched scenario.

Not far fetched at all. Was contemplated at least twice this offseason alone:

Example one (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-boshwade062910):
If Bosh settles on the New York Knicks, the Raptors would try to engage in a double sign-and-trade that sends Knicks forward David Lee(notes) to Toronto

Example two (http://www.foxsportshouston.com/06/30/10/Double-Sign-and-Trade-between-Mavs-and-C/landing.html?blockID=263978&feedID=3742):
Brian Windhorst of Cleveland.com reports that Dallas and Cleveland could be entertaining the idea of a double sign-and-trade between Haywood and Cavs center Shaquille O'Neal.

And no, the only thing you need is to find a team that wants one of your players and that both players get offered a good enough contract they're willing to sign (I mean, we're paying Bonner the same Raja Bell signed up for).
The only impediment really is that you'll be crazy to find a team willing to pay RJ 4/$40m...

[ohmwrecker]

I never said RJ is the only reason the Spurs lost or got swept. What I am saying is that knowing he did not fit and the team's goal was winning a title, but ended up in being swept in the 2nd round, they HAD to do something different. Anything. The only thing they could not do imo is exactly what they did. Overpay a bad fit who does nothing to *realistically help now or later.

His upside now was not worth the risk they took on long term. Other players, like Iggy for example (whom most think is available for cheap) at least have upside to their bad contracts.

There are other factors to consider in the "RJ doesn't fit" theory that cannot be shouldered solely by Jefferson. The multitude of injuries led to Pop forcing a lot of line-ups that did not work and resulted in Jefferson playing out of position for a good amount of the year. He had to leave a team where he was the #1 option to a new team where he had to defer to three all-star level players. The starting line-up changed a unbelievable number of times for one season. Tony, because of his injuries, and RJ never got to develop a relationship and Hill is too green a PG to take over a team in that sense. An on court relationship between TP and RJ is vital to the Spurs success, and it never developed.
The major, and only real mistake RJ made was letting his frustration with an understandably difficult situation effect his play. This year the pressure is off. Tony will come in healthy. RJ won't have to play under the same pressure he did last season. I expect better results and there is absolutely no reason not to.

[ElNono]

why dont we see other teams doing it?

Because you don't read...

Two examples here.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4529026&postcount=575

Heck, there's a July 1 thread right here in Spurstalk about it.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157690

[migs21]

Jefferson's opt out pays off in new deal with Spurs

-Sources tells TNT's David Aldridge that forward Richard Jefferson's new contract with the San Antonio Spurs, officially announced on Wednesday, is for four years and $38.8 million, with a player option for the final season at a little more than $11 million.

Jefferson had opted out of the final year of his contract with the Spurs, which would have paid him $15 million next season, in order to test free agency. But most league officials believed the 30-year-old Jefferson would re-sign with the Spurs, who acquired him from Milwaukee last summer in a deal with the Bucks for Bruce Bowen and Kurt Thomas. Jefferson struggled for much of last season with the Spurs as he learned Gregg Popovich's system, averaging just 12.3 points, his lowest average since his rookie season.

But veteran players usually take at least a year or two to fully pick up the Spurs' complex offensive and defensive systems, and tend to improve greatly in their second or third season. The Spurs anticipate that Jefferson, a career 47 percent shooter, will return to his normal form next season.

Jefferson will make back all of the $15 million he gave up this year -- he will earn more than $27 million in the first three years of the deal -- and now has some security that he will not be a free agent in a summer where the possibility of a lockout by owners to get a new Collective Bargaining Agreement is increasingly likely.

By bringing Jefferson back for almost $7 million less than than he was scheduled the make, the Spurs were also able to bring over their 2007 first-round pick, Brazilian center Tiago Splitter -- considered the best big man in Europe -- and re-sign forward Matt Bonner for less in total than what they would have paid for Jefferson alone under his old deal. Splitter, who should be a significant part of the rotation next season, agreed to a three-year, $10 million deal, and Bonner returned to San Antonio on a four-year deal.

Spurs owner Peter Holt has committed to paying luxury tax again next season and in 2011-12, the final two years of star center Tim Duncan's contract. After that, San Antonio is likely to rebuild around Splitter -- who will be up for a new deal by then -- guards George Hill and Manu Ginobili, whom the team signed to a three-year, $38 million extension last season, and second-year forward DeJuan Blair.

-- posted 7/21/10, 7:35 p.m.

[Pauleta14]

For everyone flipping out...
RJ was a bad fit last season, but the Spurs aren't crazy. They must have had some indicator that he would change. He ruined the spacing most of the time when he was on the court. That's the major thing that needs to change - not his scoring or defense.

I know everyone is flipping out because the Spurs didn't make big changes this summer, but despite the sweep - I don't think the Spurs needed to change that much.

A healthy Parker will make a huge difference. You guys somehow are forgetting how good he was when healthy the season before. He was one of the best players in the league.

Splitter will make a big difference (hopefully). His size will obviously be a big asset. Plus they won't have to overuse Bonner. Despite the Bonner hate on the forum, as a role player, he's not atrocious. He just isn't a starting center or a guy who should be relied on in the clutch. Splitter's presence will also allow the Spurs to manage McDyess's minutes. He obviously wakes up in the second half of the season, so the Spurs can limit him early on.

Though I think the George Hill point guard experiment failed, many of you don't. I think he'll continue to be used as a combo guard - more so an off guard. He should continue to develop on both ends of the court and becoming increasingly important to the team. He obviously believes in the Spurs' mantra and is a worker. So I expect him to continue making strides.

If Tony is healthy, then Manu/Tim won't get so worn down throughout the season. Last year, they had to do too much - Tim early in the season and Manu in the second half of the year. By the playoffs, they were both often losing their legs during games.

Blair can beast. You know he can. He just needs to get some more defensive basics down and he'll be a big asset to this team.

And don't throw in the towel on any other changes...just maybe not right now. If the Spurs start losing a lot during the season, they have a big trading chip in Parker.

:toast

[elemento]

Well whiner, I doubt that anything can make you happy. All you ever do is bitch, bitch and bitch some more. Go out and get a job so that you can then work on getting a life!!! :ihit

U mad?:ihit

Actually Splitter signing was the happiest part of this offseason. Don't u think so ?

I guess only Bruno can say the truth in ST and don't get blamed ..

the rest has to say AMEN to everything that the FO does, right?

and i do have job =) not right to fight

[MaNu4Tres]

Not far fetched at all. Was contemplated at least twice this offseason alone:.

I disagree.

Please name me 3 trades as such in the past 15 years. Where two free agents are signed and traded and swapped from team to team.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

At least the short bus crew of this forum can rejoice, with Parker's extension looking like it's in major jeopardy.


This.

I'm telling you people, this FO is living off juice from years ago....it's consistently had horrible FA summers for the longest time now.


Fucking bonner and RJ guarantee and we may lose Parker to spurs politics...... :pctoss

[DesignatedT]

Because you don't read...

Two examples here.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4529026&postcount=575

Heck, there's a July 1 thread right here in Spurstalk about it.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157690

? how about an example that actually happened :lol

[DesignatedT]

Because it's a fantasy- far-fetched- unrealistic scenario.

oh okay. thanks for clearing that up :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

http://www.woai.com/media/lib/12/1/a/6/1a6fdcbd-e3df-47b5-ae44-2cb1ff85b5ed/Story.jpg

http://offtherecordsports.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/brucebowen1.jpg

[My Fault]

Not far fetched at all. Was contemplated at least twice this offseason alone:

Example one (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-boshwade062910):
If Bosh settles on the New York Knicks, the Raptors would try to engage in a double sign-and-trade that sends Knicks forward David Lee(notes) to Toronto

Example two (http://www.foxsportshouston.com/06/30/10/Double-Sign-and-Trade-between-Mavs-and-C/landing.html?blockID=263978&feedID=3742):
Brian Windhorst of Cleveland.com reports that Dallas and Cleveland could be entertaining the idea of a double sign-and-trade between Haywood and Cavs center Shaquille O'Neal.

And no, the only thing you need is to find a team that wants one of your players and that both players get offered a good enough contract they're willing to sign (I mean, we're paying Bonner the same Raja Bell signed up for).
The only impediment really is that you'll be crazy to find a team willing to pay RJ 4/$40m...
Yes but you both teams and players wanting to make the switch. So four parties have to agree and want the switch. Highly unlikely to find such deal going down. Is it really that hard to comprehend?

[SouthTexasRancher]

U mad?:ihit

Actually Splitter signing was the happiest part of this offseason. Don't u think so ?

I guess only Bruno can say the truth in ST and don't get blamed ..

the rest has to say AMEN to everything that the FO does, right?

and i do have job =) not right to fight


See, now don't you feel better! Take a deep breath once in a while...it'll help you live longer! Stress is not good...! :toast

[Das Texan]

I want Dick to prove me wrong.


I also fully expect Tony to sign his extension before New Years.


If Blair can add a consistent mid range jumper and Dick can stop being virtually useless, this team is going to go places, as long as everyone stays healthy (which applies to every team in this league)

[ElNono]

I disagree.

Please name me 3 trades as such in the past 15 years.

- Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins for Grant Hill
- Chicago trading Eddy Curry to New York
- Toronto trades Marion, Humphries, Jawai, 2nd round pick in 2016, and cash in exchange for Turkoglu, Wright, and George (this was actually a 4 team trade, with double sign and trade involved)

[ElNono]

? how about an example that actually happened :lol

I just listed 3.

They happen for teams that look for them. We're obviously not that kind of team.

[ElNono]

Yes but you both teams and players wanting to make the switch. So four parties have to agree and want the switch. Highly unlikely to find such deal going down. Is it really that hard to comprehend?

I'm not going to tell you that it's simple and that you can pull it off. But if you sign your guy right away, you can't do a sign and trade later. And you simply are cutting short your own options.

[rmt]

Stupidest move this franchise has ever made, ever.

I still think Scola was the worst. Subtract Bonner, add Scola (no need for Dice) and instead use the MLE last year for Ariza (long SF who can defend and hit the 3) - therefore no RJ. Scola, Ariza, Splitter (only newbie) - I think Spurs can beat the Lakers and a first-year Bosh/Wade/Lebron/no bench team.


Over 9 million a year for a 30 year old who was sat down in crunch-time for about half the playoff games, averaged about 9 points a game in the playoffs, and who only had about 3 good playoff games out of 10, and lost his supposed 4th scorer responsibilities to George Hill and even got benched in the regular season . . .

I can see why some people aren't jumping for joy.

I totally agree. No one's mentioning the drop in RJ's production in the playoffs in more minutes:
RS 12.3 in 31.1mins. 32 3pt%
Playoffs 9.4 in 33.4mins. 20 3pt% (RJ's defender sagged off him & clogged the lane)

In contrast, George Hill had 13.4 in 34.4mins (38 3pt%) - 4 more points in 1 more minute. And no one had to run plays for Hill or make accommodations for him. I guess Hill must be much smarter than RJ if a 2nd year player can figure it out but the 8 year veteran can't.


Of course we are but the point is that while we got swept by the Suns we did beat a very good Dallas team. People want to make it seem that last years squad was light years away from doing anything.

The Dallas series was very close. Dice played out of his mind guarding Dirk and Roddy B. was not played enough. Either one of those things changes and it's another first round loss. The sweep by the Suns was downright embarrassing.


Bruce Bowen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>RJ

I really, really appreciate Bowen now and how well the 07 Spurs team was seamlessly constructed - not much talent but all the pieces fit. RJ can neither defend nor hit the 3. Why does anyone think that he'll be motivated to play better now he's got a nice, fat (undeserving) 4 year contract?

[ElNono]

This is water under the bridge anyways. RJ is here and we're rolling with him. Same with Bonner. I'd just like to stop hearing 3 things that are simply not true:

1) We couldn't have done anything else
2) Pop was working up RJ during the summer
3) Ian Mahinmi is not a scrub (lol mavfan :lol)

[Obstructed_View]

Now they can pick up Bogans for the rest of the LLE and they're all set.

[ohmwrecker]

I'd just like to stop hearing 3 things that are simply not true:

2) Pop was working up RJ during the summer

This has already been debated and you can't prove it's not true.

[Obstructed_View]

This has already been debated and you can't prove it's not true.

If you don't cite RJ's quote where he specifically says that he's out of shape and has only been working out a few days, it's probably fairly hard to prove.

[Danny.Zhu]

Oh no. 36m is the most I could accept.

[elemento]

This is water under the bridge anyways. RJ is here and we're rolling with him. Same with Bonner. I'd just like to stop hearing 3 things that are simply not true:

1) We couldn't have done anything else
2) Pop was working up RJ during the summer
3) Ian Mahinmi is not a scrub (lol mavfan :lol)

FTW :lobt2:

Now the deal is done. I just hope RJ can prove me wrong !!

From Bonner as just expect to see him in bench as much as possible !!

Hopefully Splitter's game translates well to NBA !! Anderson's game too. I have a feeling Anderson is going to become our new official 3-point shooter.

[DesignatedT]

Now they can pick up Bogans for the rest of the LLE and they're all set.

:lol

[DPG21920]

Can we start a "4 more years" presidential chant for RJ?

[galvatron3000]

I don't have a problem with Rj resgning because I do believe he will improve being in his second season, my problem is I didn't want his contract to be bad and he just doesn't fit. Now I can live with his contract and he should fit better this year I still would like at least a backup Sf and if Temple can be the player I think he can at point then perhaps Hill may need to be traded, either way I am overall pleased because the RJ contract was under my (Hopeful) 39 million and fell to a lil over 38, so I'm pleased. Mostly because he may be easier to move if need be with that deal.

[ohmwrecker]

If you don't cite RJ's quote where he specifically says that he's out of shape and has only been working out a few days, it's probably fairly hard to prove.

I have yet to see anyone cite that specific quote with any kind of reliable source and, at best, it's a meaningless comment that is wide open to interpretation.

[ohmwrecker]

Can we start a "4 more years" presidential chant for RJ?

That's the spirit!

[ElNono]

I have yet to see anyone cite that specific quote with any kind of reliable source and, at best, it's a meaningless comment that is wide open to interpretation.

You mean the NY Post is making up RJ quotes?

[ohmwrecker]

You mean the NY Post is making up RJ quotes?

No, I'm saying I have not seen it, no one can produce it, and it doesn't prove anything.

[ElNono]

No, I'm saying I have not seen it, no one can produce it, and it doesn't prove anything.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nike_pro_city_notebook_richard_jefferson_n5dqd0vWE HHVd3AHPSSgWL

[Kori Ellis]

No, I'm saying I have not seen it, no one can produce it, and it doesn't prove anything.

From July 14: “Awesome, I wish it was sanctioned by the league,” he said of his experience at Nike Pro City. “It was good competition – great competition. I’ve only been working out for two or three days and these guys were really getting up and down the court.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nike_pro_city_notebook_richard_jefferson_n5dqd0vWE HHVd3AHPSSgWL#ixzz0uNRzdlkv

So ... you don't believe him?

[Das Texan]

Well Dick needs to get his fucking ass to the gym.


or at least to the video room.

[TD 21]

I agree with dbestpro. It's obvious this was pre-arranged.

This is how I think it went down...

There's no way that this was what the market would bear, which means the Spurs laid out the framework of this a while ago and most likely, if not convinced, at least played a part in Jefferson opting out. Jefferson and his agent told them that they'll accept the offer if after testing the market first they can't find a better fit or secure a better offer. When they realized they couldn't, they called them up and accepted their offer.

Even though the Spurs know they're overpaying, it's not by as much as it initially seems. As dbestpro pointed out, the Spurs are paying about $15.5 million for 3 years extra service (final season not even fully guaranteed, which makes him a valuable trade chip) when you factor in what they would have paid him next season originally on top of the luxury tax bill.

Could they have, when he finally agreed to accept the offer, lowered it? Sure, but that's unethical. Also, this allows him to save face and takes away the possibility of him pouting over his contract going forward.

So all things considered, is it an overpayment? Of course. But such was the price of playing a part in his decision to opt out. He did them a favor and in return, they did him one by giving him a contract he wasn't going to get anywhere else. In the end, when you factor in those things, I don't think it's quite as much an overpayment as it initially seems.

[tlongII]

Horrible Horrible Horrible deal for the Spurs. Unbeavable.

[21_Blessings]

And Spur fan had the gall to shit talk Bynum's contract (last year team option). The San Antonio front office has turned into pure shit ever since Presti bailed. :lol

[ohmwrecker]

From July 14: “Awesome, I wish it was sanctioned by the league,” he said of his experience at Nike Pro City. “It was good competition – great competition. I’ve only been working out for two or three days and these guys were really getting up and down the court.”

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_sports/nike_pro_city_notebook_richard_jefferson_n5dqd0vWE HHVd3AHPSSgWL#ixzz0uNRzdlkv

So ... you don't believe him?

He could have meant in preparation for the Nike event. It's pretty open to interpretation and it still doesn't disprove Wojnarowski's claim.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

If the Spurs start losing a lot during the season, they have a big trading chip in Parker.

I agree with almost everything you wrote.

However, the RJ spacing issue, I think it's big, very big, and I think you put unwarranted optimism there. I HOPE RJ has the wherewithal (BBIQ) to change that, but that remains to be seen.

Also, the Spurs were losing big b4 the trade deadline in 2007, how'd that turn out? This season, the Spurs are going to be working in new players (Splitter + Dleague promotee,) so I think they might have some growing pains like last year (though not as bad w/ Dyse fully incorporated and RJ back.) I'd hate to give up TP because of that.

[Leetonidas]

I don't know if this was posted, but looks like timvp was about right; 4 years, 38.8 million with a player option for year 4.


Sources tells TNT's David Aldridge that forward Richard Jefferson's new contract with the San Antonio Spurs, officially announced on Wednesday, is for four years and $38.8 million, with a player option for the final season at a little more than $11 million.

Jefferson had opted out of the final year of his contract with the Spurs, which would have paid him $15 million next season, in order to test free agency. But most league officials believed the 30-year-old Jefferson would re-sign with the Spurs, who acquired him from Milwaukee last summer in a deal with the Bucks for Bruce Bowen and Kurt Thomas. Jefferson struggled for much of last season with the Spurs as he learned Gregg Popovich's system, averaging just 12.3 points, his lowest average since his rookie season.

But veteran players usually take at least a year or two to fully pick up the Spurs' complex offensive and defensive systems, and tend to improve greatly in their second or third season. The Spurs anticipate that Jefferson, a career 47 percent shooter, will return to his normal form next season.

Jefferson will make back all of the $15 million he gave up this year -- he will earn more than $27 million in the first three years of the deal -- and now has some security that he will not be a free agent in a summer where the possibility of a lockout by owners to get a new Collective Bargaining Agreement is increasingly likely.

http://www.nba.com/news/features/aldridge.2010.freeagency/

[Lebowski Brickowski]

He could have meant in preparation for Nike event. It's pretty open to interpretation and it still doesn't disprove Wojnarowski's claim.

Agree. Seems like he's talking about conditioning. His work with Pop on Spurs' schemes probably didn't come into play at the Nike camp. :lol

[Leetonidas]

Jefferson's opt out pays off in new deal with Spurs

-Sources tells TNT's David Aldridge that forward Richard Jefferson's new contract with the San Antonio Spurs, officially announced on Wednesday, is for four years and $38.8 million, with a player option for the final season at a little more than $11 million.

Jefferson had opted out of the final year of his contract with the Spurs, which would have paid him $15 million next season, in order to test free agency. But most league officials believed the 30-year-old Jefferson would re-sign with the Spurs, who acquired him from Milwaukee last summer in a deal with the Bucks for Bruce Bowen and Kurt Thomas. Jefferson struggled for much of last season with the Spurs as he learned Gregg Popovich's system, averaging just 12.3 points, his lowest average since his rookie season.

But veteran players usually take at least a year or two to fully pick up the Spurs' complex offensive and defensive systems, and tend to improve greatly in their second or third season. The Spurs anticipate that Jefferson, a career 47 percent shooter, will return to his normal form next season.

Jefferson will make back all of the $15 million he gave up this year -- he will earn more than $27 million in the first three years of the deal -- and now has some security that he will not be a free agent in a summer where the possibility of a lockout by owners to get a new Collective Bargaining Agreement is increasingly likely.

By bringing Jefferson back for almost $7 million less than than he was scheduled the make, the Spurs were also able to bring over their 2007 first-round pick, Brazilian center Tiago Splitter -- considered the best big man in Europe -- and re-sign forward Matt Bonner for less in total than what they would have paid for Jefferson alone under his old deal. Splitter, who should be a significant part of the rotation next season, agreed to a three-year, $10 million deal, and Bonner returned to San Antonio on a four-year deal.

Spurs owner Peter Holt has committed to paying luxury tax again next season and in 2011-12, the final two years of star center Tim Duncan's contract. After that, San Antonio is likely to rebuild around Splitter -- who will be up for a new deal by then -- guards George Hill and Manu Ginobili, whom the team signed to a three-year, $38 million extension last season, and second-year forward DeJuan Blair.

-- posted 7/21/10, 7:35 p.m.

Okay it was posted, my bad. :toast

[slick'81]

damn nice deal for rj fuck

[Lebowski Brickowski]

This off-season is basically an extension of the gamble the FO took on RJ last yr, but w/ better financing.

Spurs now have Bonner (Pop's not gonna get rid of [I]him[I],now, please) RJ, and Splitter all for the price of what RJ would have cost had he NOT opted out. And now the Spurs are under the tax line.

The gamble now is if RJ can improve his awareness and spacing, like Kori says.

Here's to hoping Pop can work some magic. :lol

[NRHector]

this shit makes me sick:vomit:

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If this is true it is by far the worst FO move since the Scola fiasco.

Fuck. Way to lock the team into mediocrity. :rolleyes

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Why even put in a player option? Like he is ever going to walk away from 11mil... not.

Fucking terrible contract.

This mofo better be fan-fucking-tastic for the next four years... the problem is, we all know he won't excel, he'll be just as patchily shithouse as he was for most of last year. He'll be the same average fucking player, only losing his legs a little each year as we pay him more.

WTF was the FO thinking? This is the sort of crappy move they usually avoid. What's worse, that contract is completely untradeable. Welcome to the declining years of RJ in a Spurs uniform. :rolleyes

This shit really pisses me off. :pctoss

[EricB]

:lol yeah cause 2014 will matter

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

:lol yeah cause 2014 will matter

Laugh it up, fucktard. The FO just locked us into mediocrity for the next 4 years.

[DPG21920]

:lol like 2010/2011 will matter. No title. Spurs will be better this year though.

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs fans really need to understand something when it comes to the thinking behind this team.

There
Is
No
Long
Term

You have a coach who will likely retire when his main star retires within 3 years. You have the franchise who will more than likely retire within 3 years. You have a point guard who may very well leave for a new challenge in a year. You have a lot of young players who could possibly fill roles, but no true prospect to become the franchise outside of your point guard who may shortly leave as mentioned above. You have an owner who likely wanted very much to avoid the luxury tax this year and would rather pay 40 million over 4 years than 20 million over one year.

Overpaying could come back to bite the Spurs this year. There's no doubt about that. Maybe even next year, but there is also no doubt that the Spurs could not replace RJ with anything better than Malik Hariston and that was a worse option than taking a shot again with RJ.

DPG you can argue the opposite all you want but everyone you mentioned picking up for the LLE or something similar earlier this off season signed for more than we could have given them.

It comes down to the Spurs being in a shitty situation and maximizing their chances this year at the cost of years 2-4. You guys may not like reality, but reality is what reality is.

There
Is
No
Long
Term.

[NRHector]

hey we still have the draft in 2016

[Chomag]

Why even put in a player option? Like he is ever going to walk away from 11mil... not.

Fucking terrible contract.

This mofo better be fan-fucking-tastic for the next four years... the problem is, we all know he won't excel, he'll be just as patchily shithouse as he was for most of last year. He'll be the same average fucking player, only losing his legs a little each year as we pay him more.

WTF was the FO thinking? This is the sort of crappy move they usually avoid. What's worse, that contract is completely untradeable. Welcome to the declining years of RJ in a Spurs uniform. :rolleyes

This shit really pisses me off. :pctoss

I wonder if they are already pre-clearing up a spot in the rafters for his jersey retirement. :downspin:

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So we overpay and extend our two biggest playoff chokers. :pctoss

I'm with DPG on this one, subbing in scrubs for RJ's minutes would not have made any difference from the title-perspective.


What we've witnessed with Spurs securing Bonner and RJ for four years is this FO realizing we are not contenders and just want to continue to be a playoff team. They're content with us being in the playoffs and not winning titles. That is the goal from now on.


Can't really blame them, I can sense the pragmatism behind their logic. But please stop kidding yourself thinking they are making these moves with titles in mind.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Spurs fans really need to understand something when it comes to the thinking behind this team.

There
Is
No
Long
Term

You have a coach who will likely retire when his main star retires within 3 years. You have the franchise who will more than likely retire within 3 years. You have a point guard who may very well leave for a new challenge in a year. You have a lot of young players who could possibly fill roles, but no true prospect to become the franchise outside of your point guard who may shortly leave as mentioned above. You have an owner who likely wanted very much to avoid the luxury tax this year and would rather pay 40 million over 4 years than 20 million over one year.

Overpaying could come back to bite the Spurs this year. There's no doubt about that. Maybe even next year, but there is also no doubt that the Spurs could not replace RJ with anything better than Malik Hariston and that was a worse option than taking a shot again with RJ.

DPG you can argue the opposite all you want but everyone you mentioned picking up for the LLE or something similar earlier this off season signed for more than we could have given them.

It comes down to the Spurs being in a shitty situation and maximizing their chances this year at the cost of years 2-4. You guys may not like reality, but reality is what reality is.

There
Is
No
Long
Term.

This is true. It's hard to accept, but we are what we are. These moves were made to maximize possibilities for maximum success the rest of the Duncan Era. It's just hard to swallow we're not swinging for the fences every FA these days to make a title run.

[NRHector]

So we overpay and extend our two biggest playoff chokers. :pctoss

I'm with DPG on this one, subbing in scrubs for RJ's minutes would not have made any difference from the title-perspective.


What we've witnessed with Spurs securing Bonner and RJ for four years is this FO realizing we are not contenders and just want to continue to be a playoff team. They're content with us being in the playoffs and not winning titles. That is the goal from now on.


Can't really blame them, I can sense the pragmatism behind their logic. But please stop kidding yourself thinking they are making these moves with titles in mind.:toast this, they are thinking about saving money

[Chomag]

:lol yeah cause 2014 will matter

What do you find so funny about mediocrity? Is there something that says all life for the spurs has to end when TD retiers? Although the odds are against it who is to say that the spurs wont be a good team after the Duncan years?

I choose life my friend, and life does go on.

[MannyIsGod]

If this is true it is by far the worst FO move since the Scola fiasco.

Fuck. Way to lock the team into mediocrity. :rolleyes

I know you're a drama queen but this is over the top even for you. Duncan's decline along with injuries have locked this team into mediocrity.

[TJastal]

Seriously though...wtf? Who exactly are the Spurs competing with for his services?

Themselves?

:lol

[DPG21920]

There is no short term either. This team has no legit shot at a title.

[benefactor]

I'm still trying to figure out how RJ is a win now move...to the point where they thought he needed almost 40 million. Oh yeah, players get better their second year. :jack

[MaNu4Tres]

Laugh it up, fucktard. The FO just locked us into mediocrity for the next 4 years.

How did it lock the Spurs into mediocrity?

Are you aware if Spurs let R.J walk, Spurs wouldn't have enough cap space to sign a significant player in the next 2 years anyway (mainly due to Duncan and Manu still being under contract at a very expensive price)? Only significant player they would be able to sign is Parker because of his bird rights; and Spurs will still be able to sign Parker even with Jefferson.) So he doesn't necessarily lock the Spurs into mediocrity.

There's still a chance the deal is partially guaranteed. It would be nice if this can be clarified because so far we are hearing different things from different sources.

JMcDonald_SAEN
Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

If that is the case, going into his third season R.J's expiring will be a tradeable asset to a team trying to shave money off their cap or to a team in contention for a title. (Teams will value his expiring).

[MannyIsGod]

Its not about who the Spurs were bidding against. Anyone with half a brain instantly can see that this offer was what it took to get RJ to opt out in order to save Holt luxury tax money. We've all been mocking RJ for opting out this entire time but he obviously had this offer before he did so. This is likely why we didn't hear of much interest for RJ. RJ showing up with a 40 million dollar price tag isn't going to look very good at all.

Sure, after it was apparent there was no market for him the Spurs could have reversed Boozered him but I think we know the Spurs are far too professional for that.

[MannyIsGod]

There is no short term either. This team has no legit shot at a title.

Probably not, but they're rolling the dice with Jefferson because thats a better option than Malik Hairston starting as your 3.

It is what it is, but the amount of angst generated by a deal is over the top.

[DPG21920]

Also, again, I disagree you are guaranteed a step back w no RJ because there are always trades. I disagree as well that there is no future. If there was no future they would not have cared about paying tax one more year with RJ instead of agreeing to a ltd with him.

[ohmwrecker]

There is no short term either. This team has no legit shot at a title.


Fuck it. Let's all go home.

[DPG21920]

Probably not, but they're rolling the dice with Jefferson because thats a better option than Malik Hairston starting as your 3.

It is what it is, but the amount of angst generated by a deal is over the top.

It's not like I am losing sleep :lol. But when dicussing the spurs this deal sucks on all levels. The excuse that he is better than Malik holds no water bc the goal is title or bust.

[MannyIsGod]

Also, again, I disagree you are guaranteed a step back w no RJ because there are always trades. I disagree as well that there is no future. If there was no future they would not have cared about paying tax one more year with RJ instead of agreeing to a ltd with him.

There is no future. When Duncan retires we're a lottery team - Jefferson or no Jefferson doesn't change that. The Spurs don't have much to trade outside of Parker and if Parker is traded then the run is over.

[DesignatedT]

It's not like I am losing sleep :lol. But when dicussing the spurs this deal sucks on all levels. The excuse that he is better than Malik holds no water bc the goal is title or bust.

time to get out of this thread dpg. you have spent to much time in here :lol

[MannyIsGod]

It's not like I am losing sleep :lol. But when dicussing the spurs this deal sucks on all levels. The excuse that he is better than Malik holds no water bc the goal is title or bust.

Nah you're not losing sleep but this thread is pretty damn big and the majority of the replies are OMG THEY'RE SO DUMB.

Its not a great contract but the reasons behind it are obvious to anyone who wants to actually understand it:

1) Saves a lot of money
2) Gives the Spurs the best chance to win this year (I never said it was good - just that it was the best out of shitty options)

[MaNu4Tres]

But when dicussing the spurs this deal sucks on all levels. The excuse that he is better than Malik holds no water bc the goal is title or bust.

You obviously are unaware of the reality of the situation for at least the next 2 years.

Read the bold.


How did it lock the Spurs into mediocrity?

Are you aware if Spurs let R.J walk, Spurs wouldn't have enough cap space to sign a significant player in the next 2 years anyway (mainly due to Duncan and Manu still being under contract at a very expensive price)? Only significant player they would be able to sign is Parker because of his bird rights; and Spurs will still be able to sign Parker even with Jefferson.) So he doesn't necessarily lock the Spurs into mediocrity.

There's still a chance the deal is partially guaranteed. It would be nice if this can be clarified because so far we are hearing different things from different sources.

JMcDonald_SAEN
Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

If that is the case, going into his third season R.J's expiring will be a tradeable asset to a team trying to shave money off their cap or to a team in contention for a title. (Teams will value his expiring).

[Stringer_Bell]

Think of it this way...if RJ is a dud again, everyone will hate him by the time he gets to the 4th year player option. It's 11m by then, but is it REALLY worth it to stick around someplace everyone hates your underacheiving ass when you already made 20m+?

I'm jus' sayin' - think about it!

[DPG21920]

Fuck it. Let's all go home.

I am still going to root for them but I am being realistic. Spurs are still a damn good team. I just don't want to hear this all in b.s. bc this team did not go all in. They got themselves under the lt and made no where near the moves they needed to.

I am ok w not going all in, but not somewhat hurting the future at the same time.

[benefactor]

Its not about who the Spurs were bidding against. Anyone with half a brain instantly can see that this offer was what it took to get RJ to opt out in order to save Holt luxury tax money. We've all been mocking RJ for opting out this entire time but he obviously had this offer before he did so.
IIRC, the Spurs FO stated they were surprised that RJ opted out.

[baseline bum]

Why even put in a player option? Like he is ever going to walk away from 11mil... not.

Fucking terrible contract.

This mofo better be fan-fucking-tastic for the next four years... the problem is, we all know he won't excel, he'll be just as patchily shithouse as he was for most of last year. He'll be the same average fucking player, only losing his legs a little each year as we pay him more.

WTF was the FO thinking? This is the sort of crappy move they usually avoid. What's worse, that contract is completely untradeable. Welcome to the declining years of RJ in a Spurs uniform. :rolleyes

This shit really pisses me off. :pctoss

Yeah, this is the worst case scenario. Jefferson may be somewhat decent in another system, but with the Spurs he's a terrible player who contributes negative utility to the team just like Bonner. There's nothing Jefferson does well for this team, and I hate continually hearing the he's a warm body argument (e.g., he's a SF and better than nothing - bullshit). Imagine if the Spurs didn't have the balls to roll the dice and play an unknown named Stephen Jackson when they had a declining once-big-name player in Steve Smith who could have been getting those minutes. Committing four years to this guy is the nightmare scenario. I would have rather lost him for nothing.

[MannyIsGod]

IIRC, the Spurs FO stated they were surprised that RJ opted out.

Link?

Actually it wouldn't matter. Since any agreement for RJ like this to opt out would technically be against the CBA I would expect to hear exactly that from the Spurs front office. They know how to handle these things (like when Barry came back) unlike other franchises whom blabber too much about these things (Dallas - etc).

[DPG21920]

I get it all. I get your points. They just don't add up. I stated why. I'm not the only one.

[MaNu4Tres]

I am ok w not going all in, but not somewhat hurting the future at the same time.

Please explain how it hurts the future?

You obviously are not aware of the reality of the situation the Spurs have for the next 3-4 years.

[DPG21920]

There is no future. When Duncan retires we're a lottery team - Jefferson or no Jefferson doesn't change that. The Spurs don't have much to trade outside of Parker and if Parker is traded then the run is over.

This is silly. I care about the spurs future. They will exist after Tim and Pop.

[MannyIsGod]

I get it all. I get your points. They just don't add up. I stated why. I'm not the only one.

No offense but you also stated earlier this summer the Spurs would be able to fill the void with players who got paid much more than you anticipated while others like myself told you it was RJ or scraps.

I get that people hate RJ because he didn't swoop in and save the Spurs last year but he's the best they could do.

[bigfan]

Ok, Im done with the roster shit, let the season begin.

[ohmwrecker]

I am still going to root for them but I am being realistic. Spurs are still a damn good team. I just don't want to hear this all in b.s. bc this team did not go all in. They got themselves under the lt and made no where near the moves they needed to.

I am ok w not going all in, but not somewhat hurting the future at the same time.

I know, Dude, but at some point, we just have to play the cards we are dealt. If you go all in with the Lakers and the Heat at the table you are going to lose. I think the Spurs are trying to play it cool and stay in the game a little longer. It may or may not work, but we did not have the cards to play with the chip leaders this off season.

Could I use some more poker metaphors?

[MannyIsGod]

This is silly. I care about the spurs future. They will exist after Tim and Pop.

Sure but a lottery team is a lottery team. When the Spurs are struggling to win 25 games are you really going to be so pissed off about RJ getting 11 million?

[DPG21920]

Please explain how it hurts the future?

You obviously are not aware of the reality of the situation the Spurs have for the next 3-4 years.

:lol just bc you keep saying that does not make it true or your points more valid. I am fully aware. Bruno and others see some of the same things. You aren't aware of what bad contracts do to teams rebuilding process.

You can say screw the future all you want, but you look silly doing so when your team has no shot at a title now IMHO.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

There is no short term either. This team has no legit shot at a title.


Umm...Spurs just made the Western Conference SemiFinals (eight teams reach this point) and now we just added the best big man from Europe plus a shooting guard that should be able to contribute right away.

The Lakers were just a .500 ballclub until they added Paul Gasol. Im not saying Splitter is as good as Gasol but this Spurs team is better than the Lakers prior to Gasol.

I know you are a not a big fan of Jefferson but this is a small forward that is one of the better players at his position. And despite he was not the focal point of our offense he still managed over 12 points and 4 rebounds a game. His stats are better than Artest and Artest got a 5 year deal.

[DPG21920]

No offense but you also stated earlier this summer the Spurs would be able to fill the void with players who got paid much more than you anticipated while others like myself told you it was RJ or scraps.

I get that people hate RJ because he didn't swoop in and save the Spurs last year but he's the best they could do.

No offense, but many thought certain players would be available. And my logic did not have anything to do w a certain player(s) but a concept. I don't fault the spurs for the trade, but the stupid extension.

If the spurs only cared about this year, why not just let RJ keep his 15m, give it one last shot, then go your separate ways?

[MannyIsGod]

Because that meant paying the Luxury Tax and like I said 40 million over 40 years is obviously a better deal than 20 for one year.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Sure but a lottery team is a lottery team. When the Spurs are struggling to win 25 games are you really going to be so pissed off about RJ getting 11 million?

Spurs have been a lottery team only once in the past 20 years (of course David Robinson was out almost the whole year) and have been one of the most successful franchises in the past 30 years. I trust this organization to maintain a successful pedigree for years to come. Splitter, Blair, Hill, Parker, Anderson and to some extend Jefferson are some great components to build around.

[ElNono]

Please explain how it hurts the future?

You obviously are not aware of the reality of the situation the Spurs have for the next 3-4 years.

What reality? Do you know what the next CBA is going to look like?

Looking at it with thr current rules, this was a money saving move for the short term. They won't be paying lux tax on those $15m he walked out of this season, but they'll end up paying more on the long run. In exchange, they'll end up with less financial flexibility going forward, since if they would have paid RJ his $16m this season he would have come off the book entirely at season's end.
BTW, if you want to talk about valuable trading chip, his $15m expiring was better than his 4th year deal for a team trying to shred salary.

It is what it is. They decided to do it this way and from a fan's perspective, let's hope he can produce. Because if we're really looking at the win now and he doesn't fit the bill this season again, we might have to package him with some actual good, cheap talent we have in order to dump his contract for something else.

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

Spurs have been a lottery team only once in the past 20 years (of course David Robinson was out almost the whole year) and have been one of the most successful franchises in the past 30 years. I trust this organization to maintain a successful pedigree for years to come. Splitter, Blair, Hill, Parker, Anderson and to some extend Jefferson are some great components to build around.

Exactly, I honestly don't think that we will fall of THAT much

[Whisky Dog]

This was a deal the Spurs put out if Jefferson would opt out and he couldn't find a better deal. It was guaranteed from the start, and did it to save Holt the 16 mil in lux tax money. Instead of paying 32 mil for one season he's paying 40 mil for 4.

I can't blame them. They took their chance last season, it didn't work out, so now they're resigning to sail off into the sunset of mediocrity. It was a great run.

[DPG21920]

Because that meant paying the Luxury Tax and like I said 40 million over 40 years is obviously a better deal than 20 for one year.

Why? There is no future. If there is no future, 20m sure looks better than 40m to me.

[ohmwrecker]

It's really depressing in here.

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs have been a lottery team only once in the past 20 years (of course David Robinson was out almost the whole year) and have been one of the most successful franchises in the past 30 years. I trust this organization to maintain a successful pedigree for years to come. Splitter, Blair, Hill, Parker, Anderson and to some extend Jefferson are some great components to build around.

Trust me - unless we draft another David Robinson or Tim Duncan by some fluke lottery ball mojo we're going to be a lottery team once again the moment Duncan retires.

I know Spurs fans think amazing big men grow on trees but thats a really bad misconception.

[MaNu4Tres]

I am fully aware. You aren't aware of what bad contracts do to teams rebuilding process.

No you are not aware.

R.J's new deal won't hinder their rebuilding process with Manu and Tim making double his salary the next 2 seasons. Spurs wouldn't be able to afford a significant free agent anyway the next 2 years with or without R.J's new deal.

His new deal doesn't handcuff them in any potential signings or take away their future 1st round picks either.

I also care about the future, but I'm fully aware R.J's contract (when it won't be as valuable to other teams --the first 2 seasons) won't hurt the Spurs from adding anything because of cap situation with Manu, Tim, Splitter, Bonner, Anderson, Blair, Hill, McDyess, Gee, Temple under contract. They will still only have around 5-7 million to make additions via MLE/ LLE with or without R.J's new deal.

Entering his 3rd season, Tim's contract comes off the books for 20 million and Spurs will have valuable expiring contracts ( Manu and R.J's) to make a move(s) for the future.

[ElNono]

Spurs have been a lottery team only once in the past 20 years (of course David Robinson was out almost the whole year) and have been one of the most successful franchises in the past 30 years. I trust this organization to maintain a successful pedigree for years to come. Splitter, Blair, Hill, Parker, Anderson and to some extend Jefferson are some great components to build around.

So you think the organization had anything to do with the ping pong balls landing us Duncan?

Okay

[MannyIsGod]

Why? There is no future. If there is no future, 20m sure looks better than 40m to me.

Of course 20 is better than 40 if you don't factor in years. Holt was going to pay someone during those lottery years so thats why it doesn't matter but the savings this year matter.

[DPG21920]

Spurs have nice young pieces already to rebuild with: Tiago, Blair, Hill and Anderson

[AFBlue]

I'm sure R.C is fully aware of those numbers as well. I don't think he would resign R.J to this deal without having the flexibility to resign Parker.

Parker, Duncan, Manu and R.J under contract this season will be slighlty below the luxury tax. If Parker is giving an extension that is back-loaded, Spurs can certainly stay slightly under the tax again for the 2011-2012 (If he is resigned).

After the 2011-2012 season Duncan's 21 million comes off the books and gives the Spurs some breathing room (even though I can see Duncan resigning for one more year at half the price to give it one more run).

Duncan gets a $3M raise, Ginobili $1M and now RJ $1M. Bonner, Splitter, Hill and Blair are also due raises. Even if the Spurs only pay the partial salary of Dice, I'm pretty sure they're at lux tax.

I understand that Holt may dip into his pockets for the extra cash if he feels like Parker is the player that will carry this franchise in the post-TD era...but I think he'll most certainly weigh that against the current roster situation (to include players at the position and yes, current payroll situation).

Like with the other dude, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this. You think it won't be a consideration, I think it will.

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs have nice young pieces already to rebuild with: Tiago, Blair, Hill and Anderson

Blair will never be a franchise player. Hill has even less of a chance to be teh franchise player anywhere. I'll fully admit we may be surprised by Anderson but I really really really really doubt either he or Tiago is going to be a Franchise player.

Without a true great player the jobs of other "good" players on teams get relaly difficult.

Parker is the only Spur outside of Duncan capable of being a franchise.

[DPG21920]

:lol church it up all you want, his contract hurts the spurs future. You can argue who cares, but not that it doesn't hurt.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Trust me - unless we draft another David Robinson or Tim Duncan by some fluke lottery ball mojo we're going to be a lottery team once again the moment Duncan retires.

I know Spurs fans think amazing big men grow on trees but thats a really bad misconception.


'87 - David Robinson

'97 - Tim Duncan

'07 - Tiago Splitter???

[DPG21920]

Blair will never be a franchise player. Hill has even less of a chance to be teh franchise player anywhere. I'll fully admit we may be surprised by Anderson but I really really really really doubt either he or Tiago is going to be a Franchise player.

Without a true great player the jobs of other "good" players on teams get relaly difficult.

Parker is the only Spur outside of Duncan capable of being a franchise.

So you don't think the spurs will sign TP and/or other FAs along the way?

[MaNu4Tres]

:lol church it up all you want, his contract hurts the spurs future. You can argue who cares, but not that it doesn't hurt.

Well you surely explained why his contract hurts the Spurs' future pretty thoroughly.

Good job :tu

[MaNu4Tres]

So you don't think the spurs will sign TP and/or other FAs along the way?

:lol

After I just get done explaining...Wow you just don't get it.

[MannyIsGod]

So you don't think the spurs will sign TP and/or other FAs along the way?

You can't just sign a player - they have to agree. I think there is a very good chance TP bolts for a different city.

And yeah, with or without RJ the Spurs didn't have room for a good free agent until Duncan's deal comes off the books.

[DPG21920]

You can't just sign a player - they have to agree. I think there is a very good chance TP bolts for a different city.

And yeah, with or without RJ the Spurs didn't have room for a good free agent until Duncan's deal comes off the books.

I guess he does not get it either bc he thinks tp is gone.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

No you are not aware.

R.J's new deal won't hinder their rebuilding process with Manu and Tim making double his salary the next 2 seasons. Spurs wouldn't be able to afford a significant free agent anyway the next 2 years with or without R.J's new deal.

His new deal doesn't handcuff them in any potential signings or take away their future 1st round picks either.

I also care about the future, but I'm fully aware R.J's contract (when it won't be as valuable to other teams --the first 2 seasons) won't hurt the Spurs from adding anything because of cap situation with Manu, Tim, Splitter, Bonner, Anderson, Blair, Hill, McDyess, Gee, Temple under contract. They will still only have around 5-7 million to make additions via MLE/ LLE with or without R.J's new deal.

Entering his 3rd season, Tim's contract comes off the books for 20 million and Spurs will have valuable expiring contracts ( Manu and R.J's) to make a move(s) for the future.

Excellent post. I wish more posters had this vision.

[DPG21920]

Well you surely explained why his contract hurts the Spurs' future pretty thoroughly.

Good job :tu

It has been explained. Even before the deal was released.

[MaNu4Tres]

It has been explained. Even before the deal was released.

Post it.

[DPG21920]

Search it.

[MaNu4Tres]

Search it.

Don't have to...


No you are not aware.

R.J's new deal won't hinder their rebuilding process with Manu and Tim making double his salary the next 2 seasons. Spurs wouldn't be able to afford a significant free agent anyway the next 2 years with or without R.J's new deal.

His new deal doesn't handcuff them in any potential signings or take away their future 1st round picks either.

I also care about the future, but I'm fully aware R.J's contract (when it won't be as valuable to other teams --the first 2 seasons) won't hurt the Spurs from adding anything because of cap situation with Manu, Tim, Splitter, Bonner, Anderson, Blair, Hill, McDyess, Gee, Temple under contract. They will still only have around 5-7 million to make additions via MLE/ LLE with or without R.J's new deal.

Entering his 3rd season, Tim's contract comes off the books for 20 million and Spurs will have valuable expiring contracts ( Manu and R.J's) to make a move(s) for the future.

[DPG21920]

That is you churching it up. Just like saying he will be an expiring asset down the road. Some of what you say is valid but you completely ignore some of the potential rammifications.

[DPG21920]

TP could very well be gone bc of this and your "explanation" does nothing to truly refute that. It is purely your opinion, like this is many of ours.

[mudyez]

can someone tell me where we are regarding the lux tax?

if not above, we should be right there, arent we?

that said: it will hinder us, using the MLE ect., coz I dont see Holt paying the lux dollar for dollar with such a slight chance of winning a title.

[MaNu4Tres]

TP could very well be gone bc of this and your "explanation" does nothing to truly refute that. It is purely your opinion, like this is many of ours.

With R.J, Splitter, Bonner, Anderson and Neal now signed Spurs will be close to 58 million for the 2011/2012 season without Parker.

With Parker, if his deal is back loaded, they may be able to fit him under the luxury tax (70.37 million; current lux-level; most likely to change) still if he doesn't look for a max-deal.

If he does look for a max-deal, I don't expect Parker to be resigned especially if he has a so so year for his standards and if Hill and Temple continue to show significant progress.

[mudyez]

With R.J, Splitter, Bonner, Anderson and Neal now signed Spurs will be close to 58 million for the 2011/2012 season without Parker.

With Parker, if his deal is back loaded, they may be able to fit him under the luxury tax (70.37 million; current lux-level; most likely to change) still if he doesn't look for a max-deal.

If he does look for a max-deal, I don't expect Parker to be resigned especially if he has a so so year for his standards and if Hill and Temple continue to show significant progress.

so hope that wont go down as basically a Parker for RJ trade!

[MaNu4Tres]

so hope that wont go down as basically a Parker for RJ trade!

This next year will be very telling, if Parker has a great year and shows signs that he is still a top 3 PG, the Spurs could resign him at the deal he wants (close to the max or the max) and Spurs will be able to afford it under the luxury tax by trading McDyess next off-season even with R.J.

If Parker doesn't have a great year, and Hill and Temple do have a great season. Spurs can sign and trade Parker to a team of his choice, so Spurs can net back value at other positions( If Hill and Temple prove to be the guys at PG).

[Cant_Be_Faded]

God, the possible reality of TP leaving San Antonio has made me too damn sad.

Peace out. Hurry up and start the damn season already.

[mudyez]

This next year will be very telling, if Parker has a great year and shows signs that he is still a top 3, the Spurs could resign him at the deal he wants (close to the max or the max) and Spurs will be able to afford it under the luxury tax by trading McDyess next off-season even with R.J.

If Parker doesn't have a great year, and Hill and Temple do have a great season. Spurs can sign and trade Parker to a team of his choice, so Spurs can net back value at other positions( If Hill and Temple prove to be the guys at PG).

so hope that wont go down as basically a McDyess for RJ trade! ;)

[MaNu4Tres]

so hope that wont go down as basically a McDyess for RJ trade! ;)

McDyess is set to retire anyway but he still has a partially guaranteed contract, as a farewell thank you.

[HarlemHeat37]

Dick just made out like a bandit.:lmao

How's everything, Luv?..

[Chieflion]

How's everything, Luv?..

It is about time for him to cook his curry.

[Chieflion]

Look at this sensitive gook. You better pull ya panties up.:lol

Says the Post-Gasol Paki insecure Laker fan who comes on to a Spurs board looking for some recognition. It is about time to cook your curry, then feed and wash your goat.

[Chieflion]

I feel proud to be Asian, unlike some guy from Pakistan who pretends to be an American black athlete online.

[toki9]

I feel proud to be Asian, unlike some guy from Pakistan who pretends to be an American black athlete online.

Isn't Pakistan considered to be part of South Asia?

[Chieflion]

Isn't Pakistan considered to be part of South Asia?

There is a difference. He is a fake black American on the internet. And I am not from Pakistan.

[Chieflion]

Pakistani doesn't seem to get the fact my skin is not dark in color and not from Pakistan washing goats and cooking curry.

[Chieflion]

Are you a chic? I like gook pussy. If so, PM me.

No. I am not female. I am sure Culburn hasn't had his way with a young Pakistani male before. If you are desperate, look for him in Arizona.

[Chieflion]

Hey, what part of Asia are you from?

I am sorry, I don't do homo or in the ass. Look for Culburn for that.

[toki9]

Let me have fun with him for a moment. I think he's confused into thinking only gooks are considered Asian.

FYI, I'm also Asian...and I used to get called that a lot in school...in fact, i even got chased down while returning from work at night by a bunch of Italian-American teenagers in Brooklyn because they thought I didn't belong in their neighborhood...

[Darkwaters]

I currently live in Asia.

Go me.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

LOL at this bullshit meltdown. Blaming the FO when not paying enough for talent, then blaming them when overpaying for the best possible option. Fickle much?

Who gives a damn about RJ's 3rd and 4th year? Really, if you think about it, it doesn't make sense to flip out at all, as the Spurs will suck badly anyway and will be lottery bound with or without RJ, this could only eventually concern Holt, but to bitch about it right now is just taking the piss for the sake of it. His 4th year? Partially guaranteed and an eventual valuable trading chip at a time when the Spurs will be rebuilding? oh NOES!

He's the best option for the next two years, realistically. He gives the Spurs the best chance to contend until Tim retires, so re-signing him, while ALSO staying under the threshold is a brilliant move and I'm sure the Spurs have discussed this with him long before he opted out.

When the Spurs end up just under the lux tax, then you must know they've had it all go their way.

[jesterbobman]

On net, The deals are fine. We underpaid for Splitter, (Even if you take MLE minus his contract, in reality I'd say he could've got more on an open market. Probably around 7 million. So we saved like 3.6 million(Or 2.4 With the MLE), RJ's deal probably would've seemed fair at 3 years 25 million, so the overpayment in the 1st year is around 1.5 million. Splitters deal shouldn't matter, but it is a silver lining in the overall financial maangement. Also, RJ had some pretty good ammunition in the contracts that guys like Travis Outlaw got, the deal offered to Barnes and the fact that the Spurs kind of needed to sign him, there wasn't another real option. Sure, They paid more than they should've, but they had to. As much as We all want Hairston and Gee to be productive, It's unlikely that they'd be able to replicate RJ's production, and Not a logical risk to take considering the goal is to win a title.

Are we top contenders now? Probably not, The Heat and Lakers are. But If we go back to having 3 of the Top 10 in PER(As Tim, Tony and Manu were for a few seasons), and our supporting cast as it is(Probably the most talented in the Big 3 era, though maybe not the best fit) We're good enough to get to the final 4, Then hope it falls our way. we can't expect to win a title, But RJ gives us a chance to grab a seat at the table.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Spurs fans really need to understand something when it comes to the thinking behind this team.

There
Is
No
Long
Term

You have a coach who will likely retire when his main star retires within 3 years. You have the franchise who will more than likely retire within 3 years. You have a point guard who may very well leave for a new challenge in a year. You have a lot of young players who could possibly fill roles, but no true prospect to become the franchise outside of your point guard who may shortly leave as mentioned above. You have an owner who likely wanted very much to avoid the luxury tax this year and would rather pay 40 million over 4 years than 20 million over one year.

Overpaying could come back to bite the Spurs this year. There's no doubt about that. Maybe even next year, but there is also no doubt that the Spurs could not replace RJ with anything better than Malik Hariston and that was a worse option than taking a shot again with RJ.

DPG you can argue the opposite all you want but everyone you mentioned picking up for the LLE or something similar earlier this off season signed for more than we could have given them.

It comes down to the Spurs being in a shitty situation and maximizing their chances this year at the cost of years 2-4. You guys may not like reality, but reality is what reality is.

There
Is
No
Long
Term.

I know that as well as you, I just don't think RJ does anything to improve us in either the short or long term.

Fuck! The guy does not fit! You rail against playing the youth, but who is to say that Gee or Hairston can't be the next Matthews or Morrow? Obviously not Morrow, as neither is a true shooter, but you get the point, right? PLAY THE YOUTH... certainly ahead of playing a massively overpaid 30yo non-fit like RJ! Get a cheap vet like Simmons in to play half a game, and give the other half to the best of those two young guys to show us their ceiling. Seems obvious to me... and DPG... and baseline... and a lot of others.

BTW, I'm not calling you stupid because you're a very smart guy, I'm just saying that there are two pretty clear views on this, and only time will tell who was right. I say build, especially if the other choice is also-ran, which is what RJ is for this team. He stifles the development of youth while offering nothing that will take us over the top.

If I am wrong, please bump this thread and I will readily admit it. However, I don't think I am. I say roll the dice with young, energetic, talented players and see if they have it in them to outperform. That is our only chance at the end of the Duncan era, and our best option to pursue in rebuilding the team.


I wonder if they are already pre-clearing up a spot in the rafters for his jersey retirement. :downspin:

:lol Please no! :lmao


I know you're a drama queen but this is over the top even for you. Duncan's decline along with injuries have locked this team into mediocrity.

The drama queen comment is out of line - I was one back before about 2007, but since then I've actually been far more moderate and a generally steadying influence around here (check my posts if you disagree)... except for the odd bout of stoneposting... :smokin :lol


Probably not, but they're rolling the dice with Jefferson because thats a better option than Malik Hairston starting as your 3.

It is what it is, but the amount of angst generated by a deal is over the top.

Not unreasonable, but I think this is a clash of ideology - some of us want to go young, others want the old guard.


Yeah, this is the worst case scenario. Jefferson may be somewhat decent in another system, but with the Spurs he's a terrible player who contributes negative utility to the team just like Bonner. There's nothing Jefferson does well for this team, and I hate continually hearing the he's a warm body argument (e.g., he's a SF and better than nothing - bullshit). Imagine if the Spurs didn't have the balls to roll the dice and play an unknown named Stephen Jackson when they had a declining once-big-name player in Steve Smith who could have been getting those minutes. Committing four years to this guy is the nightmare scenario. I would have rather lost him for nothing.

Thank you. No really, dude, thank you. Exactly. We are brothers of the mind. :toast


I get it all. I get your points. They just don't add up. I stated why. I'm not the only one.

You and me on this one, bra... :D


Exactly, I honestly don't think that we will fall of THAT much

That is not the goal... falling a little means a first round exit. Is that what we're happy to aim for? I'm not. Play the youth, roll the dice for a real improvement or missing the playoffs. Just fuckin advance the cause of the franchise.

[MaNu4Tres]

That is not the goal... falling a little means a first round exit. Is that what we're happy to aim for? I'm not. Play the youth, roll the dice for a real improvement or missing the playoffs. Just fuckin advance the cause of the franchise.

There was no realistic scenario the Spurs could have done to put them in a better position the next two years. At least realistically.

I'm all for giving the young guys an opportunity as well.

And next year even with Jefferson, the young guys will have a significant opportunity with Finley, Mason and Bogans all gone. (10-20 MPG at the 2; 15-18 MPG at the SF position.)

So saying you rather give the young players an opportunity instead of re-signing R.J doesn't make sense.


To my understanding you have been pretty damn adamant on the Spurs letting R.J go and signing a player like Simmons, Nachbar, Hayes (best case signings) to play 24-28 minutes a night.

Do you understand that scenario (instead of the current scenario; R.J re-signed) just gives the young players 6-8 more minutes a night?

So you'd be willing to sacrifice significant talent at the starting SF position (Jefferson for Simmons, Nachbar, Hayes at best*) in order to free up a measly 6-8 minutes a night for the young wings? That makes no sense.

As I said already, the young players will still be given a significant opportunity with the newly re-signed R.J because of Mason, Bogans and Finley all gone.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

There was no realistic scenario the Spurs could have done to put them in a better position the next two years. At least realistically.

I'm all for giving the young guys an opportunity as well.

And next year even with Jefferson, the young guys will have a significant opportunity with Finley, Mason and Bogans all gone. (10-20 MPG at the 2; 15-18 MPG at the SF position.)

So saying you rather give the young players an opportunity instead of re-signing R.J doesn't make sense.


To my understanding you have been pretty damn adamant on the Spurs letting R.J go and signing a player like Simmons, Nachbar, Hayes (best case signings) to play 24-28 minutes a night.

Do you understand that scenario (instead of the current scenario; R.J re-signed) just gives the young players 6-8 more minutes a night?

So you'd be willing to sacrifice significant talent at the starting SF position (Jefferson for Simmons, Nachbar, Hayes at best*) in order to free up a measly 6-8 minutes a night for the young wings? That makes no sense.

As I said already, the young players will be still be given a significant opportunity with the newly re-signed R.J because of Mason, Bogans and Finley all gone.

Yup, call me crazy, but I would rather have gone vet/Gee/Hairston and kept a toxic 10mil salary out of our cap at a time when the cap is sure to contract and major changes are underfoot in the CBA.

Richard Jefferson is highly unlikely to be the difference for this team. He commits us to patchy play unsuited to the Spurs' system at the SF. You can't change an average player like RJ at 30. MJ could adjust his game from driving to the fadeaway as his athleticism waned, RJ not so much. Dumb fuckin move.

Anyway, agree to disagree. You make a convincing case. I just think the counter-case is stronger. Peace, brother SpursTalker. :toast :)

[Solid D]

I hope RJ can stay focused and engaged defensively. He may or may not end up under contract with the Spurs but RJ needs to become more of a key contributor. At $8M or 9M per year, the Spurs need value.

Look at what value the Lakers get from Ron Artest. He plays the same position and is contracted to make $10M less than RJ over the next 4 seasons:
2010-11.........2011-12........2012-13......2013-14
$6,322,320....$6,790,640...$7,258,960...$7,727,280

The Spurs get great value from the contracts of Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and many other role players, so if RJ stays...that value/$ needs to increase.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I hope RJ can stay focused and engaged defensively. He may or may not end up under contract with the Spurs but RJ needs to become more of a key contributor. At $8M or 9M per year, the Spurs need value.

Look at what value the Lakers get from Ron Artest. He plays the same position and is contracted to make $10M less than RJ over the next 4 seasons:
2010-11.........2011-12........2012-13......2013-14
$6,322,320....$6,790,640...$7,258,960...$7,727,280

The Spurs get great value from the contracts of Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and many other role players, so if RJ stays...that value/$ needs to increase.

Totally agree, but is it likely? Not so much. I give RJ a 20% chance of being a significant piece in the hypothetical improvement of this team next year.

Dreams are all we have at this stage.

[MaNu4Tres]

Yup, call me crazy, but I would rather have gone vet/Gee/Hairston and kept a toxic 10mil salary out of our cap at a time when the cap is sure to contract and major changes are underfoot in the CBA.

Do you realize if Spurs signed Simmons or Hayes with the remainder of the MLE for say 3 years, the difference between their contract and R.J's is not close to 10 million?


1st year: (R.J's)8.4 million- (F.A) 2.365 million = 6.04 million
2nd year: 9.28 million- 2.55 million = 6.78 million
3rd year: 10.16 million- 2.74 million = 7.42 million

Even if it was 10 million extra in cap space like you say, which it is obviously not, the Spurs would still not be able to afford a significant free agent anyway with or without R.J the next two seasons, which was stated here




R.J's new deal won't hinder their rebuilding process with Manu and Tim making maximum salary the next 2 seasons. Spurs wouldn't be able to afford a significant free agent anyway the next 2 years with or without R.J's new deal.

His new deal doesn't handcuff them in any potential signings or take away their future 1st round picks either.

I also care about the future, but I'm fully aware R.J's contract (when it won't be as valuable to other teams --the first 2 seasons) won't hurt the Spurs from adding anything because of cap situation with Manu, Tim, Splitter, Bonner, Anderson, Blair, Hill, McDyess, Gee, Temple, Neal, 2010 MLE SF signing all under contract. They will still only have around 5-7 million to make additions via MLE/ LLE with or without R.J's new deal.

Entering his 3rd season, Tim's contract comes off the books for 20 million and Spurs will have valuable expiring contracts ( Manu and R.J's) to make a move(s) for the future.




Richard Jefferson is highly unlikely to be the difference for this team. He commits us to patchy play unsuited to the Spurs' system at the SF. You can't change an average player like RJ at 30. MJ could adjust his game from driving to the fadeaway as his athleticism waned, RJ not so much. Dumb fuckin move.

We can agree to disagree on this. :toast

There were no signs to suggest that R.J's athleticism was declining and I don't think he's an average player. In fact, he has a high talented ceiling to reasonably believe he has the ability to improve to be more efficiently effective in a multitude of ways (not just one way like Mason(shooting) or Bogans(decent defense)).

If he didn't have such a proven resume and if he was one-dimensional with a low ceiling like a Mason or Bogans then I'd agree with you. But that is not the case with Jefferson. IMO

So to say he can't change from last year, when he's proved year in and year out to be a top 10 small forward in the league doesn't make sense to me.

Spurs had much bigger issues and weaknesses last year, such as a horrid nucleus of a bench in Mason, Bogans, to an extent Bonner over Blair (which they have already improved simply by having Anderson and Hairston on the roster in place of Mason, Bogans).

The second major weakness was the fact that the interior defense had deteriorated and was the worst it had ever been in the Duncan era (which they improved by signing Splitter).


I give RJ a 20% chance of being a significant piece in the hypothetical improvement of this team next year.


Spurs are spending 6.04 million more in year one /6.78 million more in year 2/7.42 million more in year 3 because they don't want the team to regress as a whole with new additions (Splitter, Anderson, fresh Parker/Manu, improved Blair/Hill, Hairston finally getting an opportunity).

If the Spurs decided to save the 6.04 million+, the Spurs wouldn't have improved as much with the new additions because of the significant difference between Jefferson and Simmons or Hayes (best case scenario)starting.

By spending the money, Spurs are only significantly improving.

[lurker23]

JMcDonald_SAEN

One correction to RJ deal. Fourth year IS fully guaranteed, with a player option. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19254953735

A little funny, considering earlier...

Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19217235825

[Chieflion]

JMcDonald_SAEN

One correction to RJ deal. Fourth year IS fully guaranteed, with a player option. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19254953735

A little funny, considering earlier...

Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19217235825

I want to punch somebody right now. I don't exactly feel comfortable about this.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Do you realize if Spurs signed Simmons or Hayes with the remainder of the MLE for say 3 years, the difference between their contract and R.J's is not close to 10 million?


1st year: (R.J's)8.4 million- (F.A) 2.365 million = 6.04 million
2nd year: 9.28 million- 2.55 million = 6.78 million
3rd year: 10.16 million- 2.74 million = 7.42 million

Even if it was 10 million extra in cap space like you say, which it is obviously not, the Spurs would still not be able to afford a significant free agent anyway with or without R.J the next two seasons, which was stated here

I have never debated this on pure numbers - my concern has always been that this locks us into an aging RJ with an unmovable contract. He was barely worth the MLE, so no-one is likely to want to take him with this albatross. We've got him for 3-4 years.


We can agree to disagree on this. :toast

There were no signs to suggest that R.J's athleticism was declining and I don't think he's an average player. In fact, he has a high talented ceiling to reasonably believe he has the ability to improve to be more efficiently effective in a multitude of ways (not just one way like Mason(shooting) or Bogans(decent defense)).

If he didn't have such a proven resume and if he was one-dimensional with a low ceiling like a Mason or Bogans then I'd agree with you. But that is not the case with Jefferson. IMO

So to say he can't change from last year, when he's proved year in and year out to be a top 10 small forward in the league doesn't make sense to me.

How many 30yo SF have a double peak in their career? Name one. I very much doubt RJ can improve his game from here. Last year and fading is what we'll get from now on. If I'm wrong about that I'll be happy.


Spurs had much bigger issues and weaknesses last year, such as a horrid nucleus of a bench in Mason, Bogans, to an extent Bonner over Blair (which they have already improved simply by having Anderson and Hairston on the roster in place of Mason, Bogans).

The second major weakness was the fact that the interior defense had deteriorated and was the worst it had ever been in the Duncan era (which they improved by signing Splitter).

Agreed.


Spurs are spending 6.04 million more in year one /6.78 million more in year 2/7.42 million more in year 3 because they don't want the team to regress as a whole with new additions (Splitter, Anderson, fresh Parker/Manu, improved Blair/Hill, Hairston finally getting an opportunity).

If the Spurs decided to save the 6.04 million+, the Spurs wouldn't have improved as much with the new additions because of the significant difference between Jefferson and Simmons or Hayes (best case scenario)starting.

By spending the money, Spurs are only significantly improving.

How do you know that Gee or Hairston mightn't bloom with playing time? We'll never know now that Pop will have to play RJ 32-36mins a night.

Well argued, my friend. We shall see. I hope you are right, not me. :toast

[Dr. Gonzo]

People care too much. Just watch, cheer and move on with life.

[tuncaboylu]

4th year as player option...

I think that our FO is assuming that RJ will opt out again another 10M+ contract :)

[Texas_Ranger]

JMcDonald_SAEN

One correction to RJ deal. Fourth year IS fully guaranteed, with a player option. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19254953735

A little funny, considering earlier...

Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19217235825

:depressed

[Lebowski Brickowski]

JMcDonald_SAEN

One correction to RJ deal. Fourth year IS fully guaranteed, with a player option. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19254953735

A little funny, considering earlier...

Which reports? I trust our sources. RT @AirAlamo some reports are saying that the last year is a player option, what's the deal?

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19217235825

well that's strange :lol

[Seventyniner]

4th year fully guaranteed? Ouch! Why not make it a 5 year deal with an unguaranteed final year, then? That's why I originally thought that the 4th year was at most a partial guarantee, so the Spurs could get a trade asset, and it wouldn't matter to RJ anyway.

[panic giraffe]

I get it now. RC wants to leave, but doesn't want to seem like the douche who left just for more money, so he's trying to get fired on purpose by making shitty contracts. Instead though he's turned into that dude from office space, and accidentally doing some good like the splitter contract.

[elemento]

hahahahaha

And it's getting worse

RJ's agent is a god !!

[Nathan89]

Hey buford :flipoff, maybe you should work on your negotiating skill during the regular season because you suck. Cant believe the spurs gave jefferson everything he could have realistically ask for.

Jefferson went up to Rc with demanding some unrealistic amount of money so the spurs would counter and offer exactly what he wanted in the first place. The spurs just got played.

I thought we were the best in the business all this contract has made me reconsider.:depressed

[Tp9gospursgo]

Heres to hoping he has a better 2nd year with the Spurs :toast

[ElNono]

lol '3-year-contract'
lol trading chip
lol TP needs RJ's agent

[ElNono]

:depressed

[ElNono]

JMcDonald_SAEN

One correction to RJ deal. Fourth year IS fully guaranteed, with a player option. #spurs

http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/19254953735


Aldrige was right all along then...

[ElNono]

:hang

[elemento]

and people say it won't affect our future.

If RJ coming from the worst season evah gets this amount of money fully guaranteed, i just can't imagine how TP is going to stay in SA for less then the max.

This is one of the worst contracts of the offseason.

[DesignatedT]

give it a rest. no way im going through this again today :lol

[ElNono]

give it a rest. no way im going through this again today :lol

I'm bored and the season is 4 months away... let me vent :lol

[Obstructed_View]

and people say it won't affect our future.

If RJ coming from the worst season evah gets this amount of money fully guaranteed, i just can't imagine how TP is going to stay in SA for less then the max.

This is one of the worst contracts of the offseason.

That's one way of looking at it. Another way to look at it is the Spurs should just go ahead and offer Parker a max extension now and put the ball firmly into his court with no drama.

[ElNono]

That's one way of looking at it. Another way to look at it is the Spurs should just go ahead and offer Parker a max extension now and put the ball firmly into his court with no drama.

But then the longer he takes to decide, the bigger the drama and the speculation, which can easily drag into the season. I expect them to do the same as with Manu. Wait until after the trade deadline, and then offer a max deal.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That's one way of looking at it. Another way to look at it is the Spurs should just go ahead and offer Parker a max extension now and put the ball firmly into his court with no drama.

I think it's clear from the details that the Spurs and RJ made this deal prior to him opting out.

Some will question the long delay, but honestly - why the rush to get it signed? Spurs probably told him that they would give him the deal he just re-signed for, and if something better came along he could take it.

[4>0rings]

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/988.gif?w=500&h=288

[RiverwalkParade]

and people say it won't affect our future.

If RJ coming from the worst season evah gets this amount of money fully guaranteed, i just can't imagine how TP is going to stay in SA for less then the max.

This is one of the worst contracts of the offseason.

IMO this signals that TP will be traded this season, if not this offseason. If we can get a servicable back up PG and a PF/C for the future when Tim is gone, that would be a perfect trade.

TP and picks to POR for Pryz, Oden, Rudy, and Eli0tt Williams iswhat I can see happening

[MaNu4Tres]

lol '3-year-contract'
lol trading chip
lol TP needs RJ's agent

Lol pessimistic unrealistic moron

[ElNono]

Lol pessimistic unrealistic moron

lol stuck on stupid
lol 'R.J will have no say in the 4th year.' :lmao

[benefactor]

Fully guaranteed player option. Unfuckingbelievable.

But hey..he will be better because it's his second year!!! And who gives flying fuck about the years after Duncan anyway!!!11!1!11!11!!!!

[Cane]

Lol pessimistic unrealistic moron

:toast

[DesignatedT]

Fully guaranteed player option. Unfuckingbelievable.

But hey..he will be better because it's his second year!!! And who gives flying fuck about the years after Duncan anyway!!!11!1!11!11!!!!

Exactly. Now you're coming around....

[gilmor]

This next year will be very telling, if Parker has a great year and shows signs that he is still a top 3 PG, the Spurs could resign him at the deal he wants (close to the max or the max) and Spurs will be able to afford it under the luxury tax by trading McDyess next off-season even with R.J.

If Parker doesn't have a great year, and Hill and Temple do have a great season. Spurs can sign and trade Parker to a team of his choice, so Spurs can net back value at other positions( If Hill and Temple prove to be the guys at PG).

Doesn't matter about Parker. Both Tim and Manu will decline. The window is 2 years before Spurs become a lottery team, whether Parker is going to be here or not.

If Parker is off after this year, or he stays (which I think he won't), Spurs is still going to be a lottery team once the 2-year window is up.

[PDXSpursFan]

LMAO at people thinking RJ was fool when he opted out

[21_Blessings]

2-year window is up.

The window been shut since 2008 brah.

[benefactor]

LMAO at people thinking RJ was fool when he opted out
I was one of them. The only fool now is the people that offered him the contract.

[HankChinaski]

Wasn't expecting 4 yr 40 mil. But FO has to have faith in the man to offer him the money.

I'll never understand the constant bitching and whining from fans who think they could make a better GM. It's a god damn roller coaster ride with you people. Its pathetic.

[HarlemHeat37]

I hope everybody in the media issues Jefferson an apology, they were all clowning on him hard:lol..

[Chomag]

I hope everybody in the media issues Jefferson an apology, they were all clowning on him hard:lol..

But clowning RJ is just way to much fun.:lol

[rmt]

To mortgage the team's future for a player such as RJ who does not fit the team is beyond horrible. Is his 9 point output in the playoff worth $40mil? It's not like he's a fan favorite (Manu) or that he's been a core of championship teams (like Duncan or Parker). This will strap the team when it comes time to rebuild.

Parker will expect nothing less than the maximum extension and going by the contracts they've handed out, he will deserve it since he doubles RJ's output. So we'll have 2 players on long-term deals whose games rely on athleticism and speed (not that I begrudge Parker his as he is younger than RJ and means much, much more to the team).