RJ's Contract Details

[timvp]

Heard from a good source that Richard Jefferson's contract is a four-year, $40 million deal. I'm trying to get a second source to confirm. Don't take this info to the bank but it should be legit . . .

[lefty]

I would have preferred 3 years, 10 millions per year..

[coyotes_geek]

If true, that's overpaying.

[benefactor]

:bang

[scottspurs]

Overpaid if it turns out being true. I was thinking 7 to 8 million tops.

[BadOne]

Wonder if the 4th is guaranteed? Or if its a player/team option...


Hmmm...

[SpursTillTheEnd]

Heard from a good source that Richard Jefferson's contract is a four-year, $40 million deal. I'm trying to get a second source to confirm. Don't take this info to the bank but it should be legit . . .
fuck rj get this mutherfucker off of our team and you have the same source as ericBITCH, his mama

[Shastafarian]

I hope I don't run into any puppies or chubby faced babies today. Cuz if I do they're getting kicked...

[scottspurs]

Also a deal definitely must of already been in place for awhile because he wasn't getting anything close to that on the market.

[ThePop]

http://www.youknow-forkids.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/tlj.jpg

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Sounds about the going rate for a individual at his position and his stature.

[benefactor]

Seriously though...wtf? Who exactly are the Spurs competing with for his services?

[TimmehC]

Sounds like they agreed to this ahead of time. WTF was up with the waiting game, though?

[eric365]

Not that bad in a market where Barnes is close to get 5 milions/year and Rudy Gay a near max deal.

Especially if the 4th year is not guranteed.

No other choices for the SF spot anyway....

[DesignatedT]

http://i40.tinypic.com/34y3gcn.jpg

[lefty]

Seriously though...wtf? Who exactly are the Spurs competing with for his services?
With themselves

[Cane]

Lets hope there's an option on the 4th year and I wont be too upset.

Agreed. :toast

[benefactor]

With themselves
lol Spurs
lol RJ
lol 10 million per season

[Fabbs]

Seriously though...wtf? Who exactly are the Spurs competing with for his services?
:lol

Grab some Snickers bars.

[DesignatedT]

Seriously though...wtf? Who exactly are the Spurs competing with for his services?

I'm sure there were teams interested. To say he never received interest from any teams is just retarded. He's still a solid player in the eyes of the rest of league.. just not spurstalk.

[Nathan89]

Oh no! Please tell me you have the same source as Ericb.

[tp2021]

That sucks. I don't really know what else to say. A lot more than I was expecting, or at least more than I hoped.

[benefactor]

I'm sure there were teams interested. To say he never received interest from any teams is just retarded. He's still a solid player in the eyes of the rest of league.. just not spurstalk.
lol 40 million

[DesignatedT]

lol 40 million

?

[tuncaboylu]

It shouldn't be more than 4 years 32M

[CubanMustGo]

Heard from a good source that Richard Jefferson's contract is a four-year, $40 million deal. I'm trying to get a second source to confirm. Don't take this info to the bank but it should be legit . . .

http://thecheesefreak.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/funny-pictures-orange-meh-cat.jpg

[Drom John]

Very good for year one, $5M less with tax and cap implications.
Year two is cost for year one.
Years three and four ... meh.

Edit: Dr. Pepper to CubanMustGo

[benefactor]

Cue TPark justifying the amount and why the FO payed it.

[ohmwrecker]

I'm sure there were teams interested. To say he never received interest from any teams is just retarded. He's still a solid player in the eyes of the rest of league.. just not spurstalk.

Right on, man. Blind extremism rules the day at Spurstalk.

[oligarchy]

http://i42.tinypic.com/21mdhn6.gif

[DBMethos]

The Spurs were handed a Get Out of Jail Free card and promptly traded it in for that crappy one that forces you to pay fees for other people's hotels and crap.

[lefty]

That wouldnt have happened if not overpaying for fucking Matt Bonner !!! :pctoss

Basically, since RJ is better than Bonner, Spurs have to him more than the Red Rocket

[SpursTillTheEnd]

how the fuck does he get 40 million wtf is this 40 million for 6 rebounds a game hell naw man fuck this why the fuck did i log on fuck this ima go punch a tree fuck this im out

[My Fault]

Had to be deal in place before hand. Otherwise that makes no sense.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Spurs planted this contract in RJs head way back in Feb when he first mentioned opting out. It was a brilliant master plan until this summer came around: little did anyone know they would be overpaying.

EDIT/ vastly overpaying

[Blackjack]

He better have a fourth year team option for $15.2M . . .

[benefactor]

Spurs planted this contract in RJs head way back in Feb when he first mentioned opting out. It was a brilliant master plan until this summer came around: little did anyone know they would be overpaying.
Paying 40 million dollars is not...and was never a brilliant idea.

[My Fault]

how the fuck does he get 40 million wtf is this 40 million for 6 rebounds a game hell naw man fuck this why the fuck did i log on fuck this ima go punch a tree fuck this im out

Why stop there? Go kick a cop car. That will show them...

[benefactor]

He better have a fourth year team option for $15.2M . . .
:tu

[Buddy Holly]

Can't 100% confirm but my buddy says 3 years 25million optional 4th year.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_F5blIU0mkJA/S03lC2GfYpI/AAAAAAAAAro/bGGpsx1rRZ8/S1600-R/o_rly.jpg


Heard from a good source that Richard Jefferson's contract is a four-year, $40 million deal. I'm trying to get a second source to confirm. Don't take this info to the bank but it should be legit . . .

Eric needs a new fucking source. :lol

[Bruno]

:hang

[Shifty]

He better have a fourth year team option for $15.2M . . .

...and an expiring CBA...

[lefty]

Fucking Matt BONNER contract









:pctoss

[oligarchy]

I'd rather that 4th be fully non-guaranteed rather than simple team option..

[Lebowski Brickowski]

Paying 40 million dollars is not...and was never a brilliant idea.

No it's not, especially for a FB offensive sf in a 1/2 court, defensive system. But I gotta hope that the FO realized this FUBAR situation w/ RJ and tried to come out of it the best they could.

If there is a trade of the contract after 2 yrs (Or yrs 3-4 are some combo of team options and/or partial guarantees,) the FO at least breaks even on the mistake.

[Shastafarian]

The more I think about it

http://a2.pbase.com/o4/48/408148/1/59219045.steamrolled.gif

[eric365]

If i have not made a mistake the 1st yaer would be at 8,6 mil.

Do we have any margin for the luxury tax for a defensive SG/SF ?

[murpjf88]

This news wasn't worth waiting for.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I told you guys in the very first thread about this that it would be 5 years for $45M and everybody said I was crazy. I can't believe they actually signed a worse deal, unless year 4 is non-guaranteed.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

I also gotta believe that Pop thinks RJ will be better this yr, or else Pop wouldn't be able to look TD in the eyes.:ihit

EIT: JEEBUS, I sound like ErciB sticking up for the FO no matter what -- someone shoot me

[benefactor]

No it's not, especially for a FB offensive sf in a 1/2 court, defensive system. But I gotta hope that the FO realized this FUBAR situation w/ RJ and tried to come out of it the best they could.

If there is a trade of the contract after 2 yrs (Or yrs 3-4 are some combo of team options and/or partial guarantees,) the FO at least breaks even on the mistake.
For an FO that has been so good at being frugal, this is far from the best they could do.

[E-RockWill]

I'd rather that 4th be fully non-guaranteed rather than simple team option..

+1

Hell, I'll take a partial guarantee. Holy bejeezus.......

[peacemaker885]

I also gotta believe that Pop thinks RJ will be better this yr, or else Pop wouldn't be able to look TD in the eyes.:ihit

Agree with this. I think we will see a better fitting RJ next season.

[Vic Petro]

This. Fucking. Sucks.

[ohmwrecker]

Did EricB take over Timvp's account?

[Spurminator]

Oh well. I'm just glad it's done and we have an idea of what our lineup is going to look like. I have very low expectations for Jefferson but I also know that he didn't just become a shitty basketball player overnight last year. Hopefully a year in the Spurs system, and perhaps some adjustments on how he is integrated on the court, will benefit him and the team. Crossing fingers.

[Duncan2177]

I thought Pop and RC were geniuses WTF :bang

[Seventyniner]

I'd rather that 4th be fully non-guaranteed rather than simple team option..

And it had better be one of those two.

[tuncaboylu]

Let's wait the numbers until an official declaration.

[buttsR4rebounding]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_F5blIU0mkJA/S03lC2GfYpI/AAAAAAAAAro/bGGpsx1rRZ8/S1600-R/o_rly.jpg




Eric needs a new fucking source. :lol

If the 4th year is an option year then the contract's 1st 3 years are for about $28 million--not that far off.

[Nathan89]

Somehow the off season just got worst. He wants a four year contract and we want a two year contract, i guess they could not compromise on three. If this is true the opt out was a good decision.

[Gooshie]

If my math is right, this could be the rough salary structure (assuming 10.5% max raises):

2011: $8.54M
2012:: $9.44M
2013: $10.43M
2014: $11.53M

If true, I think we could stay under lux tax this year, but we couldn't use the rest of the MLE.

[Obstructed_View]

If those numbers are correct, the RJ should be really happy and should play even better this season because he wasn't lowballed. In addition, he should be ready to sacrifice all his numbers in order to become a world-class defender, because a good contract was the only thing holding him back all this time. ;)

[kobyz]

now the FO remember to be lavish, where they been when we had Scola?

[Blackjack]

I'd rather that 4th be fully non-guaranteed rather than simple team option..

It's semantics.

It's like, "Hey, if you can go out and average 30 a game and lead us to a championship ... we'd love to pick up that option!"

Ain't a chance in hell they pick up a $15M dollar option on a 34-year-old RJ after Tim and Manu are gone.

[Johnny RIngo]

So the Spurs are going to be paying Bonner and Jefferson 56 million over the next four years?

:smchode:

[ElNono]

Heard from a good source that Richard Jefferson's contract is a four-year, $40 million deal.

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc302/serranobullies/thefuck.jpg

[kobyz]

If my math is right, this could be the rough salary structure (assuming 10.5% max raises):

2011: $8.54M
2012:: $9.44M
2013: $10.43M
2014: $11.53M

i think it will be better for Spurs to do the contract front-loaded

[RiverwalkParade]

If my math is right, this could be the rough salary structure (assuming 10.5% max raises):

2011: $8.54M
2012:: $9.44M
2013: $10.43M
2014: $11.53M

If true, I think we could stay under lux tax this year, but we couldn't use the rest of the MLE.

I'm ok with this as long as the 4th year in non-guaranteed so we can at least use his contract as trade bait when Manu and Tim are on their way out.

[boo_radley]

If i have not made a mistake the 1st yaer would be at 8,6 mil.

Do we have any margin for the luxury tax for a defensive SG/SF ?

I don't think so

see here: http://airalamo.com/2010/07/19/update-on-the-spurs-cap-situation/

[hsxvvd]

It's overpaying but was there really a better option? We need him and that made the price where is seems to be.

[ElNono]

I'm actually shocked that RJ thought he could get a better deal than this out there...

[DPG21920]

If this is true, this is by far, and I mean by far worst case scenario and makes this one of the worst most pointless off seasons in a long time.

Not only is that way to much money given there was no market for RJ, but he does not want to be here and does not fit.

He has now managed to do nothing to improve the Spurs chances at winning a title short-term and severely hindered the re-building process.

Then they give Bonner a 4 year deal.

I am disgusted if this is true. Absolutely disgusted.

[benefactor]

Well played, RJ...well played.

[oligarchy]

It's semantics.

It's like, "Hey, if you can go out and average 30 a game and lead us to a championship ... we'd love to pick up that option!"

Ain't a chance in hell they pick up a $15M dollar option on a 34-year-old RJ after Tim and Manu are gone.

Well, not from a trade stand point -- in so far as the summer that you would guarantee it. You might be able to trade for a not-so-terrible contract, versus someone having to keep his contract for a year. In the latter (non-guarantee) the team doesn't have to incur any salary. It's a better trade asset in that regards, but I get what you are saying.

[timvp]

Still no second source yet. Hopefully the info is wrong ............ but I doubt it.

[Muser]

Fml.

[Seventyniner]

Did the Spurs just take how much room the team has under the tax, subtract the remainder of the MLE, the LLE, and a minimum contract or two, and give the rest to RJ?

[ElNono]

The only worst case is if the contract is frontloaded and fully guaranteed.

[ElNono]

Also, for the cap/lux tax experts, how much this contract hampers the possibility of re-signing Tony?

[DesignatedT]

If this is true, this is by far, and I mean by far worst case scenario and makes this one of the worst most pointless off seasons in a long time.

Not only is that way to much money given there was no market for RJ, but he does not want to be here and does not fit.

He has now managed to do nothing to improve the Spurs chances at winning a title short-term and severely hindered the re-building process.

Then they give Bonner a 4 year deal.

I am disgusted if this is true. Absolutely disgusted.

I don' t understand what you base this on? For all we know the reports of him and pop working together trying to get this down could be absolutely true and he could be working harder than ever to try and make it work here. He never said he didn't want to be here. We all know why he opted out and that was because of the potential lockout. For all we know there could have been a deal together this whole time and both sides have agreed to this deal long before he even opted out of his contract. There is no evidence that he doesn't want to be here other than some random new york media that you obviously buy into.

[Budkin]

http://i40.tinypic.com/34y3gcn.jpg

LMAO that is the best pop gif ever.

[Chomag]

So now Spurs will have 2 players that are overpaid for 4 years? Great off-season FO!

Well, it is what it is. I guess the only thing to do now is hope for success.

[DPG21920]

I honestly don't get what the Spurs are thinking this off season. If this is "do the best you can with what you have", they should have bit the bullet focused on the future.

It makes no sense to be mediocre and saddle yourself with pointless contracts when the end is near.

At some point, you have to look in the mirror and be realistic; does this team as currently constructed have a real shot at a title?

[DesignatedT]

LMAO that is the best pop gif ever.

If I remember correctly, that was right after Mason missed yet another WIDE open 3.

[ElNono]

I don' t understand what you base this on? For all we know the reports of him and pop working together trying to get this down could be absolutely true and he could be working harder than ever to try and make it work here.

How so? Richard himself said he didn't started to work out until about a week ago.

[DPG21920]

I don' t understand what you base this on? For all we know the reports of him and pop working together trying to get this down could be absolutely true and he could be working harder than ever to try and make it work here. He never said he didn't want to be here. We all know why he opted out and that was because of the potential lockout. For all we know there could have been a deal together this whole time and both sides have agreed to this deal long before he even opted out of his contract. There is no evidence that he doesn't want to be here other than some random new york media that you obviously buy into.

RJ said himself he has only worked out a few days this summer which dispelled those Pop workout rumors.

He did say, even if indirectly, that he did not want to be here and that NY/NJ was his place. This is well known.

[DesignatedT]

I honestly don't get what the Spurs are thinking this off season. If this is "do the best you can with what you have", they should have bit the bullet focused on the future.

It makes no sense to be mediocre and saddle yourself with pointless contracts when the end is near.

At some point, you have to look in the mirror and be realistic; does this team as currently constructed have a real shot at a title?

yes. they have just as much of a shot than any other team in the league not named LA and Miami.

[purist]

Also, for the cap/lux tax experts, how much this contract hampers the possibility of re-signing Tony?

There is no way to know this at this point because of the uncertainty of the future collective bargaining agreement. It probably doesn't hinder the Spurs tendering an extension offer now, but the question is: does Tony want to commit at this point?

[DesignatedT]

RJ said himself he has only worked out a few days this summer which dispelled those Pop workout rumors.

He did say, even if indirectly, that he did not want to be here and that NY/NJ was his place. This is well known.

No its not.

[timvp]

If these are the correct contract details, it's obvious that the Spurs had this offer on the table the whole time. They probably told RJ that he can go out and try to get a better offer elsewhere ... thus the delay in re-signing.

It'd basically work out as a $25 million extension over three years for RJ.

[Muser]

So they have little to no shot.

[DPG21920]

yes. they have just as much of a shot than any other team in the league not named LA and Miami.

Not true. But even if true, that means they don't have a realistic chance to win a title because they are certainly not beating LA or MIA.

[Chomag]

With all this money being thrown out the window will the Spurs have anything near enough for what Tony Parker will be asking for?

[DesignatedT]

How so? Richard himself said he didn't started to work out until about a week ago.

It could have been right after the season for all we know then he took a break and he meant he just started working out again. who knows. nobody knows. to assume it didn't happen is just as retarded to assume it did.

[HarlemHeat37]

:rollin:rollin

I knew they were going to give him more than he was worth so they could keep him happy, but 40 million?!..for Richard fucking Jefferson?!..a 30+ year old player coming off his worst season, a player that relies on athleticism and is clearly losing it?!..wow..

The Jefferson and Bonner contracts completely negate the fact that Splitter took a lot less than he could have..:lol people in that thread were talking about how great the front office is at negotiating contracts..I guess they have a soft spot for bad fits and sandwiches..

I really hope the 4th year has some kind of stipulation to it, like a team option or partly non-guaranteed or something..having Jefferson on this team for 3 or 4 more years at 10 million a year would be disgusting..

I don't see any reason that any other team would want Jefferson..he's at a crossroads in his career, he's past his prime..he doesn't help any young teams with his "experience", because he's not that old yet and he is a low IQ player that doesn't bring leadership..

He doesn't help teams that want to win now, because his style of play doesn't fit with teams that are trying to win, unless he's a 6th man, which won't happen for the Spurs..

This clearly means there was a wink-wink deal, so I'm not as upset as I could have been, but it also means that instead of having Jefferson for 1 more year and potentially using his contract as a chip at the deadline, they're going to have him for another 4 years..he doesn't fit and he's only going to get worse with age, so it puzzles me that they would allow him to stay 4 more years.

[DPG21920]

No its not.

Yes, it is.

[DesignatedT]

Not true. But even if true, that means they don't have a realistic chance to win a title because they are certainly not beating LA or MIA.

so everyone besides LA and Miami should just blow up the roster. they don't have a realistic chance.

[ElNono]

There is no way to know this at this point because of the uncertainty of the future collective bargaining agreement. It probably doesn't hinder the Spurs tendering an extension offer now, but the question is: does Tony want to commit at this point?

Well, there's the possibility that the new CBA also drastically lowers the lux tax line, or even replaces it with a hard cap, which basically would mean we're SOL to re-sign tony. I mean, we don't even know if the MLE or Bird rights will survive.

[boo_radley]

Did the Spurs just take how much room the team has under the tax, subtract the remainder of the MLE, the LLE, and a minimum contract or two, and give the rest to RJ?
No, that would have left a much lower starting figure

[Baseline]

Do Pop and RC think we won a championship last year?

RJ and Bonner were our two worst playoff perfomers, yet they both got long extensions. I don't get it.

[DPG21920]

If these are the correct contract details, it's obvious that the Spurs had this offer on the table the whole time. They probably told RJ that he can go out and try to get a better offer elsewhere ... thus the delay in re-signing.

It'd basically work out as a $25 million extension over three years for RJ.

WTF would they do this? What makes them think a bad fit who does not want to be here deserves an extension? Especially with only a 1 year window?

[ElNono]

It could have been right after the season for all we know then he took a break and he meant he just started working out again. who knows. nobody knows. to assume it didn't happen is just as retarded to assume it did.

I can find a quote of RJ saying he just started working out... can you find a quote of RJ saying he was working out with Pop?

[DPG21920]

so everyone besides LA and Miami should just blow up the roster. they don't have a realistic chance.

Nope. But the Spurs aren't everyone and everyone is not in the Spurs situation. There is a difference in "blowing up your roster" and not signing RJ and Bonner to long term deals.

[MullinFan]

It shouldn't be more than 4 years 32M

This is what im thinking....

[angelbelow]

Oh wow...

[ElNono]

If these are the correct contract details, it's obvious that the Spurs had this offer on the table the whole time. They probably told RJ that he can go out and try to get a better offer elsewhere ... thus the delay in re-signing.

It'd basically work out as a $25 million extension over three years for RJ.

To save $7m in tax money? smh

I'm still hoping it's not fully guaranteed and there's a team option there for the last season.

[tp2021]

Shit, there better be a team option for this season.

[DPG21920]

I cannot believe the Spurs FO is this foolish. In fact, I know they aren't. These moves have to be working toward something else.

[DPG21920]

I could care less about the money (to a certain degree), it is the years that piss me off.

[ElNono]

I cannot believe the Spurs FO is this foolish. In fact, I know they aren't. These moves have to be working toward something else.

They can always package RJ and Bonner into a trade for Shaq in February... I mean, you want worse, there's always worse... :lol

[crc21209]

I'd rather have an overpaid RJ > some D-league scrub. Let's face it. It was RJ...or nothing really. The same people who are in here hating on him are going to be the ones sucking him off when he has a highlight worthy dunk..

[Duncan2177]

Do Pop and RC think we won a championship last year?

RJ and Bonner were our two worst playoff perfomers, yet they both got long extensions. I don't get it.

:tu

[DesignatedT]

Nope. But the Spurs aren't everyone and everyone is not in the Spurs situation. There is a difference in "blowing up your roster" and not signing RJ and Bonner to long term deals.


I honestly don't get what the Spurs are thinking this off season. If this is "do the best you can with what you have", they should have bit the bullet focused on the future.

what is that supposed to mean then? focusing on the future...? I don't understand. You think there are many teams who have a better shot at winning a title than the Spurs? We knocked out #2 seed Dallas with RJ and Bonner.

Dallas is better suited to win a ring though? with mahinmi i guess..

[Muser]

I cannot believe the Spurs FO is this foolish. In fact, I know they aren't. These moves have to be working toward something else.

Like what though? I don't see a move which would require re-signing Bonner and RJ to bad long term deals.

[ElNono]

I'd rather have an overpaid RJ > some D-league scrub. Let's face it. It was RJ...or nothing really. The same people who are in here hating on him are going to be the ones sucking him off when he has a highlight worthy dunk..

Maybe for this upcoming season... but 4 more years????

[DPG21920]

I'd rather have an overpaid RJ > some D-league scrub. Let's face it. It was RJ...or nothing really. The same people who are in here hating on him are going to be the ones sucking him off when he has a highlight worthy dunk..

Why? Does having RJ increase your chances to win a title? He might, and I say *might be able to keep you from sliding backwards, but he does nothing to move you forward imo.

If that is the case, D-League scrub as you put it, who could arguably at least defend better than RJ makes more sense.

[Muser]

I'd rather have an overpaid RJ > some D-league scrub. Let's face it. It was RJ...or nothing really. The same people who are in here hating on him are going to be the ones sucking him off when he has a highlight worthy dunk..

You won't be saying this in 4 years.

[DPG21920]

Like what though? I don't see a move which would require re-signing Bonner and RJ to bad long term deals.

:lol I know. It was just a mini melt down.

[dbestpro]

Think of it this way. RJ was going to cost the Spurs 22 mil for one year (salary and penalty). Spurs make a deal and basically give that whole amount to RJ (which was going to be spent anyway) and an additional 3 years at 6 mil per. Total cash outlay 40 mil divided over 4 years.

When Holt looks in his wallet he spends the same amount of money plus he gets a starting SF for 6 mil per year for an additional 3 years that will be trade bait at 10mil on the 4th year.

The only thing that is left is now to get RJ to effectively play his position. That means RJ playing SF the way we need him, Spur players also playing to RJs strengths and coach Pop not playing RJ out of position anymore.

[ohmwrecker]

Ihave not seen anything that would supersede this as a firm indication of how RJ has spent, at least, part of his summer.

Jefferson staying in S.A.?
Richard Jefferson’s decision to opt out of the final $15 million season of his contract might not be a sign he’s willing to leave the San Antonio Spurs.
Sources said Spurs coach Gregg Popovich has been personally working out Jefferson in San Antonio. The free-agent forward could re-sign with the team at a number that lowers the franchise’s luxury-tax hit while guaranteeing him more money on the back end of a multiyear contract.
– Adrian Wojnarowski, June 30, 10:30 ET


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Aije5AsvnhNeyZEso0XYzL68vLYF?slug=ys-freeagentbuzz063010

Can anyone post a link that debunks this?

[LongtimeSpursFan]

I honestly don't get what the Spurs are thinking this off season. If this is "do the best you can with what you have", they should have bit the bullet focused on the future.

It makes no sense to be mediocre and saddle yourself with pointless contracts when the end is near.

At some point, you have to look in the mirror and be realistic; does this team as currently constructed have a real shot at a title?


As far as Miami:

Duncan > Bosh
Parker = Wade
Ginobili = LeBron

RJ, Splitter, Hill, Blair, Bonner > Miami scrubs

So yes I think we have a chance at a title.

[ElNono]

what is that supposed to mean then? focusing on the future...? I don't understand. You think there are many teams who have a better shot at winning a title than the Spurs? We knocked out #2 seed Dallas with RJ and Bonner.

Dallas is better suited to win a ring though? with mahinmi i guess..

Dallas unloaded contracts and picked up Chandler... they're targeting CP3 next offseason, and I think they'll get him. So they're indeed building to make a move in the near future.

[oligarchy]

People are confusing this upcoming year with the other three that are on this contract.

[Muser]

:lol I know. It was just a mini melt down.

I think we're all entitled to one of those if these figures are true. :depressed

[coyotes_geek]

Parker = Wade
Ginobili = LeBron


Oh dear Lord.......

[DPG21920]

what is that supposed to mean then? focusing on the future...? I don't understand. You think there are many teams who have a better shot at winning a title than the Spurs? We knocked out #2 seed Dallas with RJ and Bonner.

Dallas is better suited to win a ring though? with mahinmi i guess..

You aren't understanding. The Spurs are in the same spot this year with or without RJ for the most part.

If that is the case, don't sign his ass to a LTD. Spurs got swept. There are plenty of teams better or as good as the Spurs if you use logic and LA and the Heat are head and shoulders above the Spurs.

[crc21209]

Maybe for this upcoming season... but 4 more years????

True. I would have taken him for 2-3 years max, but maybe just maybe the 4th year is an option. But hey no one ever really wins in contract negotiations. I'm sure the Spurs wanted to give less money and or years, but at the same time the player has to watch out for himself and long term security, thus the contract they ended up at...

[tp2021]

Ginobili = LeBron


Not without Bowen on the roster, he's not.

[timvp]

:lol @ The ESPN, Yahoo and AOL basketball guys scrambling for RJ's contract info. Everyone is calling the same people and no one knows for sure. We should get confirmation on these figures but it's going to be later tonight . . . .

[benefactor]

Think of it this way. RJ was going to cost the Spurs 22 mil for one year (salary and penalty). Spurs make a deal and basically give that whole amount to RJ (which was going to be spent anyway) and an additional 3 years at 6 mil per. Total cash outlay 40 mil divided over 4 years.

When Holt looks in his wallet he spends the same amount of money plus he gets a starting SF for 6 mil per year for an additional 3 years that will be trade bait at 10mil on the 4th year.

The only thing that is left is now to get RJ to effectively play his position. That means RJ playing SF the way we need him, Spur players also playing to RJs strengths and coach Pop not playing RJ out of position anymore.
Worst reasoning ever. Everyone that read this is now dumber.

[TimmehC]

It's semantics.

It's like, "Hey, if you can go out and average 30 a game and lead us to a championship ... we'd love to pick up that option!"

Ain't a chance in hell they pick up a $15M dollar option on a 34-year-old RJ after Tim and Manu are gone.

A big, unguaranteed, expiring contract could be a great trade chip, though.

[DPG21920]

As far as Miami:

Duncan > Bosh
Parker = Wade
Ginobili = LeBron

RJ, Splitter, Hill, Blair, Bonner > Miami scrubs

So yes I think we have a chance at a title.

I love the Spurs to my man.

[Duncan2177]

Think of it this way. RJ was going to cost the Spurs 22 mil for one year (salary and penalty). Spurs make a deal and basically give that whole amount to RJ (which was going to be spent anyway) and an additional 3 years at 6 mil per. Total cash outlay 40 mil divided over 4 years.

When Holt looks in his wallet he spends the same amount of money plus he gets a starting SF for 6 mil per year for an additional 3 years that will be trade bait at 10mil on the 4th year.

The only thing that is left is now to get RJ to effectively play his position. That means RJ playing SF the way we need him, Spur players also playing to RJs strengths and coach Pop not playing RJ out of position anymore.

Yea like putting RJ at PF wtf was up with that? :lol

[oligarchy]

As far as Miami:

Duncan > Bosh
Parker = Wade
Ginobili = LeBron

RJ, Splitter, Hill, Blair, Bonner > Miami scrubs

So yes I think we have a chance at a title.

Is the blue missing?

[crc21209]

Why? Does having RJ increase your chances to win a title? He might, and I say *might be able to keep you from sliding backwards, but he does nothing to move you forward imo.

If that is the case, D-League scrub as you put it, who could arguably at least defend better than RJ makes more sense.

I highly doubt that Hairston or Gee would be able to put up 12 ppg like RJ did last year. That, and Hairston is even more undersized than RJ. RJ has nowhere to go but up from here with the Spurs. I'm pretty sure the guy will be motivated to show that he isnt a bust here in San Antonio...

[underdawg]

what is that supposed to mean then? focusing on the future...? I don't understand. You think there are many teams who have a better shot at winning a title than the Spurs? We knocked out #2 seed Dallas with RJ and Bonner.

Dallas is better suited to win a ring though? with mahinmi i guess..

and then got swept by the #3 seed with RJ and Bonner; Dallas could be better with some of their players new to the team last year getting better, but it's OK City and Portland that should be better.

[DesignatedT]

Dallas unloaded contracts and picked up Chandler... they're targeting CP3 next offseason, and I think they'll get him. So they're indeed building to make a move in the near future.

that wasn't the question but alright. good for dallas "Targeting" cp3. While I'm sure the Spurs would love to target some future free agents it's going to be no use when they come here (which is a long shot at best, its obvious we have to get players via the draft and no FA) and manu and duncan are already 35 and retired.

If you would have rather the Spurs blew it up than re-sign RJ than say that. That's what DPG is saying. Fuck it. Let Duncan play with Hairston, Gee and Gary fucking Neal.

fact is the Spurs are still better than Dallas... and most other teams in the league

[Muser]

Why would RJ be motivated? He just got a big fat paycheck.

[ElNono]

Think of it this way. RJ was going to cost the Spurs 22 mil for one year (salary and penalty). Spurs make a deal and basically give that whole amount to RJ (which was going to be spent anyway) and an additional 3 years at 6 mil per. Total cash outlay 40 mil divided over 4 years.

It's arguable that RJ is worth $6m/season right now. He's only getting older and he's a guy that completely relies in his athleticism. If you would have told me that Holt broke even, or ended up paying about MLE money for him after all the math is done, then I could understand. But that is not this.

[crc21209]

You aren't understanding. The Spurs are in the same spot this year with or without RJ for the most part.

If that is the case, don't sign his ass to a LTD. Spurs got swept. There are plenty of teams better or as good as the Spurs if you use logic and LA and the Heat are head and shoulders above the Spurs.

The only teams the Spurs really have to worry about in the West are L.A and possibly OKC. I still do not trust teams like the Mavs...

[benefactor]

RJ has nowhere to go but up from here with the Spurs. I'm pretty sure the guy will be motivated to show that he isnt a bust here in San Antonio...
Over 30 forwards that rely primarily on their athleticism normal head down.

[DPG21920]

I highly doubt that Hairston or Gee would be able to put up 12 ppg like RJ did last year. That, and Hairston is even more undersized than RJ. RJ has nowhere to go but up from here with the Spurs. I'm pretty sure the guy will be motivated to show that he isnt a bust here in San Antonio...

Nope, but a combo of Malik + Filler could get close enough imo and the defense would be a hell of a lot better. Along with the energy.

I know RJ is clearly a superior player over those guys, but that impact is not felt on the Spurs because of fit. RJ is still a talented player though.

It's hard to be motivated when you get paid 40M for doing nothing for a team. It's not all his fault, the fit is just not right.

[mingus]

wow. that's a lot of money. maybe Pop thinks RJ will somehow do a 180 for next season. otherwise, they're just way overpaying for him. and with that kind of contract, SA is going ot have a hard time trading him if it doesn't pan out.

[crc21209]

and then got swept by the #3 seed with RJ and Bonner; Dallas could be better with some of their players new to the team last year getting better, but it's OK City and Portland that should be better.

Portland? OKC yes but Portland has guys like Oden and Roy (although I like Roy) who cant stay healthy for shit..

[DesignatedT]

and then got swept by the #3 seed with RJ and Bonner; Dallas could be better with some of their players new to the team last year getting better, but it's OK City and Portland that should be better.

and we couldn't? Splitter, Anderson? Blair and Hill developing? RJ getting more familiar?

we have by no means taken a step in the wrong direction. It might not have been the great leap we all wanted but fact is that wasn't possible, but we have no doubt set ourselves up with a better team this year. I don't understand how people don't see this.....

4 years down the road.... I don't know. I don't care. Duncan will be gone and it will all have to start over anyway.

[Johnny RIngo]

As far as Miami:

Duncan > Bosh
Parker = Wade
Ginobili = LeBron

RJ, Splitter, Hill, Blair, Bonner > Miami scrubs

So yes I think we have a chance at a title.

HUh? Parker and Ginobili have NEVER been equal to Wade or Lebron in terms of playing ability.

[HarlemHeat37]

Parker = Wade
Ginobili = LeBron



:wow
:bang
:smchode:

[Seventyniner]

No, that would have left a much lower starting figure

So either the Spurs are going into the tax, or choosing not to spend one of the MLE remainder and the LLE?

[ElNono]

that wasn't the question but alright. good for dallas "Targeting" cp3. While I'm sure the Spurs would love to target some future free agents it's going to be no use when they come here (which is a long shot at best, its obvious we have to get players via the draft and no FA) and manu and duncan are already 35 and retired.

If you would have rather the Spurs blew it up than re-sign RJ than say that. That's what DPG is saying. Fuck it. Let Duncan play with Hairston, Gee and Gary fucking Neal.

fact is the Spurs are still better than Dallas... and most other teams in the league

You can keep telling yourself that. Fact is Dallas at worst stayed the same, at best improved a little with Chandler. But when you look at the numbers, they just unloaded a couple of really bad contracts, and Chandler is also an expiring. So looking forward, they actually do look great to target Melo/CP3 or whoever else.
We, on the other hand, just loaded up on large, long term contracts just to keep the status quo.

[mingus]

the only thing that gives me confidence is that for 1 whol year he shot 39% from three. maybe there's a chance we see that again. otherwise, i see no possible postives from this. they should've just pursued Barnes harder and given him a 2-year deal like Toronto.

[DPG21920]

that wasn't the question but alright. good for dallas "Targeting" cp3. While I'm sure the Spurs would love to target some future free agents it's going to be no use when they come here (which is a long shot at best, its obvious we have to get players via the draft and no FA) and manu and duncan are already 35 and retired.

If you would have rather the Spurs blew it up than re-sign RJ than say that. That's what DPG is saying. Fuck it. Let Duncan play with Hairston, Gee and Gary fucking Neal.

fact is the Spurs are still better than Dallas... and most other teams in the league

No. That is not what I am saying. That is what you are saying. Not signing RJ to a long term deal is not blowing it up. In fact, I argued the Spurs could be better off short term with Malik/filler/possible trade mid season. The fit would be better imo. Even if not, the difference in them having a legit shot at a title does not change very much at all with or without RJ, so why do it. That is what I am saying.

[crc21209]

Nope, but a combo of Malik + Filler could get close enough imo and the defense would be a hell of a lot better. Along with the energy.

I know RJ is clearly a superior player over those guys, but that impact is not felt on the Spurs because of fit. RJ is still a talented player though.

It's hard to be motivated when you get paid 40M for doing nothing for a team. It's not all his fault, the fit is just not right.

I'm pretty sure you stick any guy who was used to dominating the ball on a team and he will fail. It takes some getting used to. And I firmly believe in the "failing in 1st yr as a Spur only to bounce back the 2nd yr" theory. Fin didnt do so hot in his 1st year as a Spur, and improved the next year. As did Big Shot Rob...

[benefactor]

So either the Spurs are going into the tax, or choosing not to spend one of the MLE remainder and the LLE?
Now that they have dropped a bunch of cash on bullshit, they will not spend anything else to stay out of the tax.

[Fabbs]

HUh? Parker and Ginobili have NEVER been equal to Wade or Lebron in terms of playing ability.
2005 Finals my friend.
2007 Finals.

GNob and Parker were as good as can be.
Wades 2006 Finals it's a bit hard to gauge as he got 50% of the Kobe treatment.

[HarlemHeat37]

So I guess Jefferson will be the new Finley here in a year or 2..

[ohmwrecker]

Dallas unloaded contracts and picked up Chandler... they're targeting CP3 next offseason, and I think they'll get him. So they're indeed building to make a move in the near future.

Would you trade RJ, Bonner & Splitter for Chandler & Mahinmi?

And CP3 is gon' be in NYC next year ballin' wif Melo & Amare cuz.

[crc21209]

You can keep telling yourself that. Fact is Dallas at worst stayed the same, at best improved a little with Chandler. But when you look at the numbers, they just unloaded a couple of really bad contracts, and Chandler is also an expiring. So looking forward, they actually do look great to target Melo/CP3 or whoever else.
We, on the other hand, just loaded up on large, long term contracts just to keep the status quo.

Lets get real now though, no "big" name free agent has ever gone to Dallas. :lol After all they did have that big Dampier "trade chip" that was supposed to land them something big, and instead they landed an injury prone Tyson Chandler...:lol

[underdawg]

Portland? OKC yes but Portland has guys like Oden and Roy (although I like Roy) who cant stay healthy for shit..

you're probably right, but they could be dangerous

NUM PLAYER POS HT WT DOB FROM YRS
12 LaMarcus Aldridge F 6-11 240 07/19/1985 Texas 4
11 Luke Babbitt F 6-9 225 06/20/1989 Nevada-Reno R
88 Nicolas Batum F 6-8 200 12/14/1988 Lisieux, France 2
4 Jerryd Bayless G 6-3 200 08/20/1988 Arizona 2
21 Marcus Camby C-F 6-11 235 03/22/1974 Massachusetts 14
33 Dante Cunningham F 6-8 230 04/22/1987 Villanova 1
27 Travis Diener (FA) G 6-1 175 03/01/1982 Marquette 5
5 Rudy Fernandez G 6-6 185 04/04/1985 Palma de Mallorca, Spain 2
Armon Johnson ** G 6-3 195 02/23/1989 Nevada-Reno R
2 Wesley Matthews G 6-5 220 10/14/1986 Marquette 1
24 Andre Miller G 6-2 200 03/19/1976 Utah 11
8 Patrick Mills (FA) G 6-0 185 08/11/1988 St. Mary's (CA) 1
52 Greg Oden C 7-0 285 01/22/1988 Ohio State 2
31 Jeff Pendergraph F 6-9 240 04/29/1987 Arizona State 1
10 Joel Przybilla C 7-1 245 10/10/1979 Minnesota 10
7 Brandon Roy G 6-6 211 07/23/1984 Washington 4
9 Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ Williams G 6-5 180 06/20/1989 Memphis R

[baseline bum]

If that's what the Spurs promised, then they had to live up to it. But fuck, that was incredibly stupid to promise him that deal if they did. I would have much rather used his expiring deal to steal a player or two from a financially strapped team or let him walk to New Jersey for a trade exception. As it stands, this is a Raptors-esque signing. :pctoss

[angelbelow]

Well the positives.. RJ has apparently been working out with Pop... and Pop is no idiot. Perhaps RJ will be a positive surprise next season.

Also, if RJ was lowballed to a 6-7 million dollar contract, he would likely not give a shit about improving. And just play lazy style basketball. At least this way he gets a contract that he likes which may help his motivation to transition into a player that will better fit the system.

[Pauleta14]

There is no way to know this at this point because of the uncertainty of the future collective bargaining agreement. It probably doesn't hinder the Spurs tendering an extension offer now, but the question is: does Tony want to commit at this point?

the question isn't "does he want to stay?", why wouldn't he?
It's easier to stay in a club you know, where you're confortable, with a coach who knows you (and how to use you), in a city where you built your house... rather than starting again elsewhere!

I think only the spurs FO has the "cards" to decide...
Do they want TP on the long term? How much are they willing to offer? Will Holt agree to to pay the tax for a few more years? ...

I don't think next year CBA will have that much impact, because players will always want to be paid in comparaison to the other players of the same level! (sorry 4 my english). It's almost a matter of respect, you don't pay Tony for instance 10m$/year if the other elite PG are averaging 17M$/year!
Whatever the new CBA is...

It's up to Holt IMO...

[DesignatedT]

So I guess Jefferson will be the new Finley here in a year or 2..

year or 2? more like now.

[spursbird]

If it was not Splitter signing 3yrs 10mil, the Spurs FO would totally suck this summer. Two garbage contracts.

[crc21209]

well the positives.. Rj has apparently been working out with pop... And pop is no idiot. Perhaps rj will be a positive surprise next season.

Also, if rj was lowballed to a 6-7 million dollar contract, he would likely not give a shit about improving. And just play lazy style basketball. At least this way he gets a contract that he likes which may help his motivation to transition into a player that will better fit the system.

+1

[mingus]

this off-season was very oxmoronic. we get Splitter... and re-sign RJ. i wanna jump up and cry at the same time.

[Chomag]

I cannot believe the Spurs FO is this foolish. In fact, I know they aren't. These moves have to be working toward something else.

I wish it was this, but what team would want these long term bloated contracts that Spur' FOs have given Bonner and RJ? Unfortunately I feel this will only guarantee locking these players up as spurs for a very long while.

What has gotten it in the heads of our FO that these said players deserve this is what I honestly would like to know.

It's gonna be a long 4 years. :lol

[Mhak]

hahaha!! Don't make fun of LongtimeSpursFan.. He is just a kid.. He is clearly stating this as a real spursfan..

[DPG21920]

It's also funny how you say "f*ck it, let Tim play with Malik, Gee and Neal" while the Spurs before RJ & Dice said "f*ck it, let Tim play with Bonner, Mason & Udoka" :lol.

Spurs might be worse off without RJ back, but not enough where it justifies a long term deal. You don't sign bad fits to stupid contracts to get marginally better when your goal is to give yourself a legit shot to win a title.

You can spout off all you want about how we beat the Mavs, but the fact is that series could have gone either way. The Suns flat out swept our ass and you keep ignoring that fact and saying "the Spurs weren't far off from the other teams".

There are a lot of teams that can easily be argued ahead of the Spurs, with a small handful that are true contenders above everyone.

[crc21209]

you're probably right, but they could be dangerous

NUM PLAYER POS HT WT DOB FROM YRS
12 LaMarcus Aldridge F 6-11 240 07/19/1985 Texas 4
11 Luke Babbitt F 6-9 225 06/20/1989 Nevada-Reno R
88 Nicolas Batum F 6-8 200 12/14/1988 Lisieux, France 2
4 Jerryd Bayless G 6-3 200 08/20/1988 Arizona 2
21 Marcus Camby C-F 6-11 235 03/22/1974 Massachusetts 14
33 Dante Cunningham F 6-8 230 04/22/1987 Villanova 1
27 Travis Diener (FA) G 6-1 175 03/01/1982 Marquette 5
5 Rudy Fernandez G 6-6 185 04/04/1985 Palma de Mallorca, Spain 2
Armon Johnson ** G 6-3 195 02/23/1989 Nevada-Reno R
2 Wesley Matthews G 6-5 220 10/14/1986 Marquette 1
24 Andre Miller G 6-2 200 03/19/1976 Utah 11
8 Patrick Mills (FA) G 6-0 185 08/11/1988 St. Mary's (CA) 1
52 Greg Oden C 7-0 285 01/22/1988 Ohio State 2
31 Jeff Pendergraph F 6-9 240 04/29/1987 Arizona State 1
10 Joel Przybilla C 7-1 245 10/10/1979 Minnesota 10
7 Brandon Roy G 6-6 211 07/23/1984 Washington 4
9 Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_ Williams G 6-5 180 06/20/1989 Memphis R

You can scratch Rudy from that list. Dude doesnt wanna play for the Blazers or anywhere in the NBA for that matter...

[benefactor]

Spur fans are lipsticking the pig in this thread at an epic level.

[DesignatedT]

Spurs didn't take a step backwards is all im trying to say. We are by far a better team than we were last season while a lot of other teams got worse. Is this move the best 3 years down the road? Probably not, but with Duncan retiring I'm not particularly worried about that. To say the Spurs have no shot at contending for the title is just retarded. You might as well tell every other team not named LA, ORL and MIA the same thing. There are a lot more positives to look forward to on our team than negatives this upcoming season.

[Das Texan]

Awesome.


We got fucked. Holt cat though at least keeps some of that lux tax cash.


Perhaps he can go buy a new tractor or two with it.

[Chomag]

Well the positives.. RJ has apparently been working out with Pop... and Pop is no idiot. Perhaps RJ will be a positive surprise next season.

Sorry to say, but this rumor has been debunked by RJ himself.

[Muser]

We got swept by the Suns and the Lakers beat the Suns in 6, who then beat Boston in 7. Yeah this team isn't anywhere near a title.

[ElNono]

Lets get real now though, no "big" name free agent has ever gone to Dallas. :lol After all they did have that big Dampier "trade chip" that was supposed to land them something big, and instead they landed an injury prone Tyson Chandler...:lol

It's all fun and games to laugh at mavfan. But if you actually take a closer look at the deal they pulled, they basically kicked the ball to the next offseason. Chandler is expiring. They unloaded Matt Carroll and his horrendous contract.
And as we like to gloat about Hill and Blair improving, Roddy is a terrific kid for them who will also have a season under his belt.

[oligarchy]

Bonner is going to be so much better next year knowing he is going to get paid.

[DPG21920]

and we couldn't? Splitter, Anderson? Blair and Hill developing? RJ getting more familiar?

we have by no means taken a step in the wrong direction. It might not have been the great leap we all wanted but fact is that wasn't possible, but we have no doubt set ourselves up with a better team this year. I don't understand how people don't see this.....

4 years down the road.... I don't know. I don't care. Duncan will be gone and it will all have to start over anyway.

I don't think people are saying the Spurs got worse. What we are saying is the goal is to win a title and the Spurs did nothing to put themselves in a spot to do so.

They got marginally better when they needed to get significantly better. So with that in mind, it makes no sense to saddle yourself with long term deals for bad fits and playoff chokers.

[crc21209]

It's also funny how you say "f*ck it, let Tim play with Malik, Gee and Neal" while the Spurs before RJ & Dice said "f*ck it, let Tim play with Bonner, Mason & Udoka" :lol.

Spurs might be worse off without RJ back, but not enough where it justifies a long term deal. You don't sign bad fits to stupid contracts to get marginally better when your goal is to give yourself a legit shot to win a title.

You can spout off all you want about how we beat the Mavs, but the fact is that series could have gone either way. The Suns flat out swept our ass and you keep ignoring that fact and saying "the Spurs weren't far off from the other teams".

There are a lot of teams that can easily be argued ahead of the Spurs, with a small handful that are true contenders above everyone.


True. But the Suns swept our ass with Amare and Nash runnin' the P&R while opening up the 3 pt shot for idiots like Frye and Dudley. Now with Amare gone, and Hedo in...the Suns should slide down...:lol

[Sisk]

any confirmation yet?

[SenorSpur]

Do Pop and RC think we won a championship last year?

RJ and Bonner were our two worst playoff perfomers, yet they both got long extensions. I don't get it.

:tu :tu

Reward for sucktitude? It's really hard to understand what the Spurs were thinking regarding both these guys.


:bang

[crc21209]

I don't think people are saying the Spurs got worse. What we are saying is the goal is to win a title and the Spurs did nothing to put themselves in a spot to do so.

They got marginally better when they needed to get significantly better. So with that in mind, it makes no sense to saddle yourself with long term deals for bad fits and playoff chokers.

I think when the PO's come around, we will hardly see Bonner anyway. We have too many guys who are better than him and are more clutch than him at that position...TD, Dice, Blair, and now Splitter. Bonner is the 5th big and should only be brought in for 10-15 mpg at the most...

[teeclark]

It baffles me how everyone acts as if this roster is substandard in talent to previous rosters the spurs have fielded! We don't win with names in san antonio; we rely on cohesion and attention to detail. We will be fine moving forward even if we never really know what fueled this latest signing.:lobt2:

[DPG21920]

It's all fun and games to laugh at mavfan. But if you actually take a closer look at the deal they pulled, they basically kicked the ball to the next offseason. Chandler is expiring. They unloaded Matt Carroll and his horrendous contract.
And as we like to gloat about Hill and Blair improving, Roddy is a terrific kid for them who will also have a season under his belt.

That Mavs move was for this year no doubt. Even if Chandler, Carroll & Eddie's contracts are off the books, Mavs are still over the cap next year.

This move bought them more time to trade an expiring contract at the deadline for someone who shakes loose.

[ElNono]

I think when the PO's come around, we will hardly see Bonner anyway.

Famous last words... :lol

[Mhak]

I think when the PO's come around, we will hardly see Bonner anyway. We have too many guys who are better than him and are more clutch than him at that position...TD, Dice, Blair, and now Splitter. Bonner is the 5th big and should only be brought in for 10-15 mpg at the most...

He will play bonner more than Blair and Splitter.. I guarantee it..

[024]

so.. no team wanted to pay jefferson more than $6 million a year and the spurs go ahead and give him a $10 million/yr contract? wtf? so un-spurslike. are the spurs really going to pay $10 million a year for a guy that averages 12 pts, can't make consistent 3's, nor play consistent defense?

[Cane]

We got swept by the Suns and the Lakers beat the Suns in 6, who then beat Boston in 7. Yeah this team isn't anywhere near a title.

Mainly depends on health imo. Tony Parker went from being a top player in the league to just average and missed out on a lot of games due to health and Ginobili got his nose broken in the playoffs. Lakers also only finished 2 wins higher than the Mavs and without HCA and having a core roster thats played as many minutes as they have in the past few years; WCF is within the realm of possibility. Odom's also playing for Team USA in the summer so its about time that those miles really started to catch up with another team :stirpot:

[Nathan89]

As far as Miami:

Duncan > Bosh
Parker = Wade
Ginobili = LeBron

RJ, Splitter, Hill, Blair, Bonner > Miami scrubs

So yes I think we have a chance at a title.

Dear Kori Ellis

Can you please remove this guy from the forum? This act on your part will improve the quality of this forum for the other members. As a result more people will want to become members.

Sincerely
Nathan89

[underdawg]

and we couldn't? Splitter, Anderson? Blair and Hill developing? RJ getting more familiar?

we have by no means taken a step in the wrong direction. It might not have been the great leap we all wanted but fact is that wasn't possible, but we have no doubt set ourselves up with a better team this year. I don't understand how people don't see this.....

4 years down the road.... I don't know. I don't care. Duncan will be gone and it will all have to start over anyway.

There's always hope, but I just can't see his defense improving by leaps and bounds based on last years effort. The open shots will come with confidence, but that also has to change dramatically from last year.

Hill will be better and Blair will be better, but if Butler and Haywood are significantly better along with Roddy getting playing time - Dallas will be much more improved.

Splitter and Anderson's progress depends a lot on Pop's willingness to give them the minutes needed for them to grow.

[DesignatedT]

I don't think people are saying the Spurs got worse. What we are saying is the goal is to win a title and the Spurs did nothing to put themselves in a spot to do so.

They got marginally better when they needed to get significantly better. So with that in mind, it makes no sense to saddle yourself with long term deals for bad fits and playoff chokers.

That's just were we disagree. We improved our team the best we could without having to blow up the big 3 which would just be a disaster. There is a lot of potential in our young guys to turn into really good players in this league which could help put us over the top.

I would have rather gotten "marginally better" than give up, get worse, and start looking towards the future when we still have #21 on the roster. just my opinion of course.

[DPG21920]

I'm pretty sure you stick any guy who was used to dominating the ball on a team and he will fail. It takes some getting used to. And I firmly believe in the "failing in 1st yr as a Spur only to bounce back the 2nd yr" theory. Fin didnt do so hot in his 1st year as a Spur, and improved the next year. As did Big Shot Rob...

That is because those guys had obvious, proven skill sets that fit the Spurs. 3 PT shooting.

[Ginnoobbllee]

dbestpro has got it right.

However, he is not even counting the money that the Spurs would miss out on in the luxury tax pool ... likely another 2 - 3 million.

i.e. if RJ stayed on his contract, the cost would be $15 mill + 7 mill luxury tax + 3 mill missed from luxury tax rebate: $25 mill RJ cost for 2010-11.

he leaves, you have to pay some new small forward $5 mill/year for 3 years to break even. Who would you get for that amount? Total $40 mill

or

instead of paying all of those luxury tax penalties to the league, you pay RJ the $40 mill and you have a SF for 4 years.

bottom line, RJ's salary hit this year was going to leave the Spurs on the hook for a cost of about $25 mill this year. Might as well pro rate it and get more bang for your buck. Hopefully, there is still some bang left in RJ.
:greedy

[ElNono]

That Mavs move was for this year no doubt. Even if Chandler, Carroll & Eddie's contracts are off the books, Mavs are still over the cap next year.

This move bought them more time to trade an expiring contract at the deadline for someone who shakes loose.

Nobody was touching that Carroll contract except Jordan and only by unloading the DUST chip. They're on a position now where they can make a nice package with Chandler expiring and a few not so horrible contracts and go for CP3 in February. You know Cuban has the hots for him and he'll throw the kitchen sink at him if he has to.

[oligarchy]

That Mavs move was for this year no doubt. Even if Chandler, Carroll & Eddie's contracts are off the books, Mavs are still over the cap next year.

This move bought them more time to trade an expiring contract at the deadline for someone who shakes loose.

Agreed, nobody was biting the DUST chip; Tyson prolongs it until the trade deadline when some people may want to dump some contracts.

[crc21209]

Lets face it. The Spurs window is only 2-3 years at the max anyway, so RJ's contract is going to mean shit by the time we get to the third and 4th year anyway. This team just needs to focus on staying healthy and gunning for one more title RIGHT NOW. The most important part of this Off-season wasnt even signing Splitter or anyone...but the fact that our Big 3 are all resting up as we speak for this upcoming season..which IMO means more to this team than signing or not signing someone out there...

[ohmwrecker]

this off-season was very oxmoronic. we get Splitter... and re-sign RJ. i wanna jump up and cry at the same time.

Bold prediction time! RJ will exceed expectations more than Splitter this season.

Feel free to bump this and bash me around All-Star break.

[oligarchy]

dbestpro has got it right.

However, he is not even counting the money that the Spurs would miss out on in the luxury tax pool ... likely another 2 - 3 million.

i.e. if RJ stayed on his contract, the cost would be $15 mill + 7 mill luxury tax + 3 mill missed from luxury tax rebate: $25 mill RJ cost for 2010-11.

he leaves, you have to pay some new small forward $5 mill/year for 3 years to break even. Who would you get for that amount? Total $40 mill

or

instead of paying all of those luxury tax penalties to the league, you pay RJ the $40 mill and you have a SF for 4 years.

bottom line, RJ's salary hit this year was going to leave the Spurs on the hook for a cost of about $25 mill this year. Might as well pro rate it and get more bang for your buck. Hopefully, there is still some bang left in RJ.
:greedy

He opted out. He would've cost them nothing.

[DesignatedT]

Nobody was touching that Carroll contract except Jordan and only by unloading the DUST chip. They're on a position now where they can make a nice package with Chandler expiring and a few not so horrible contracts and go for CP3 in February. You know Cuban has the hots for him and he'll throw the kitchen sink at him if he has to.

sounds like a great reliable plan to start the season. "shit, we might be able to get cp3 around february if we're lucky"

[DPG21920]

That's just were we disagree. We improved our team the best we could without having to blow up the big 3 which would just be a disaster. There is a lot of potential in our young guys to turn into really good players in this league which could help put us over the top.

I would have rather gotten "marginally better" than give up, get worse, and start looking towards the future when we still have #21 on the roster. just my opinion of course.

I have already explained why letting RJ walk does not make the Spurs significantly worse THIS YEAR. It is not giving up when you have a chance to be better off than the year before.

Having RJ or not having RJ, I think the Spurs have close to the same shot. When you factor in TP bouncing back and Tiago, the Spurs did the same thing without the shitty RJ contract.

[boo_radley]

Now that they have dropped a bunch of cash on bullshit, they will not spend anything else to stay out of the tax.

I think this signals that they are willing to pay the tax again. The only want to make a starting salary for RJ anything more than 6.75 mil and avoid the tax is to fill out the roster with young mimimum contract types.

I did some looking at it, and if the Spurs kept two of the 4 Toros and spent the rest of the MLE on another player that's all they could give RJ and stay under the tax line. However, if they kept the 4 Toros then they could give RJ a deal like this.

What that would mean is that the FO thinks that Anderson and Splitter are enought to put the Spurs over the top...which, they probably aren't by themselves.

[DesignatedT]

I have already explained why letting RJ walk does not make the Spurs significantly worse THIS YEAR. It is not giving up when you have a chance to be better off than the year before.

Having RJ or not having RJ, I think the Spurs have close to the same shot. When you factor in TP bouncing back and Tiago, the Spurs did the same thing without the shitty RJ contract.

That's your opinion. Just because you have "Explained" why the spurs would be just as good with Hairston than RJ doesn't mean its true. I happen to disagree with you and think RJ is exceptionally better than Hairston and still even has greater potential for us than Hairston

[teeclark]

None of us will never know how good we are or can be THIS year until the boys get back at it! Look at our 07 roster and you would have been hard press to place your mortgage on us winning the title with that cast of characters. In hindsight it easy to act as if we had it all figured out....:lol

[DPG21920]

He opted out. He would've cost them nothing.

Yeah, but this contract shows the only reason he opted out was because this deal was agreed to before hand.

[ElNono]

sounds like a great reliable plan to start the season. "shit, we might be able to get cp3 around february if we're lucky"

Their current plan is no different than ours. They're basically coming back with all their same guys, but with Chandler instead of Damp. If it's not enough to win it all, they have options to get better going forward. We don't have those options.

[oligarchy]

sounds like a great reliable plan to start the season. "shit, we might be able to get cp3 around february if we're lucky"

Funny. They didn't have room to sign anyone outright, they only had trade chips. They couldn't find a deal that fit them right then, and then prolonged it to see if they could find a deal by the deadline.. nothing wrong with that

It's about as funny as everyone presuming that RJ will be easy to move in his last year simply because he is expiring.

[DPG21920]

That's your opinion. Just because you have "Explained" why the spurs would be just as good with Hairston than RJ doesn't mean its true. I happen to disagree with you and think RJ is exceptionally better than Hairston and still even has greater potential for us than Hairston

So you honestly thing they could not have replaced RJ's shitty 3 PT shooting, bad defense and 12 PPG?

[DesignatedT]

Their current plan is no different than ours. They're basically coming back with all their same guys, but with Chandler instead of Damp. If it's not enough to win it all, they have options to get better going forward. We don't have those options.

trading parker is definitely an option.

[Trill Clinton]

$40 mil?!!!!

http://i745.photobucket.com/albums/xx100/MABOcho/delhomme.gif

[ElNono]

That's your opinion. Just because you have "Explained" why the spurs would be just as good with Hairston than RJ doesn't mean its true. I happen to disagree with you and think RJ is exceptionally better than Hairston and still even has greater potential for us than Hairston

He's the 5th option on this team. I don't care how exceptional you think RJ is, our championship chances don't hinge on him at all.

[teeclark]

James Anderson = no impact? He will be better overall than Roger in my opinion. You have to want to win and hate to lose to succeed in life or the NBA. This guy will impress if and when he comes back from his injury.....book it!

[DPG21920]

trading parker is definitely an option.

So their plan was to trade Damp and ours Parker? I like their plan better.

[RollingBlackOut]

Mysa.com has this AP article buried in there site

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BKN_SPURS_JEFFERSON_TXOL-?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Jul 21, 3:39 PM EDT

Jefferson back with Spurs after opting out of deal

By PAUL J. WEBER
Associated Press Writer


Advertisement


SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- Richard Jefferson is returning to the San Antonio Spurs after opting out of his old contract that would have paid him $15 million next season.

The Spurs announced Wednesday they have re-signed the veteran swingman. Terms were not disclosed, though Jefferson was willing to part with his bloated deal that expired next summer for longer-term security.

Jefferson struggles with the Spurs after being traded from Milwaukee. The Spurs took on his hefty contract hoping the 30-year-old would bring a jolt to their championship core of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.

Jefferson's 12.3 scoring average was the lowest since his rookie year, though coach Gregg Popovich has stood by him.

[oligarchy]

Yeah, but this contract shows the only reason he opted out was because this deal was agreed to before hand.

I'm not saying it did, I'm just saying you can't equate the savings. They didn't HAVE to resign him. "Hey let's make deal... on second thought, fuck you." A reverse-boozer.

[DesignatedT]

So you honestly thing they could not have replaced RJ's shitty 3 PT shooting, bad defense and 12 PPG?

I think RJ still has a lot more upside than what he showed last season. His defense improved as the season went on and by the time we were done it really wasn't bad. I think if both sides work on it his offense will definitely get better. RJ definitely has the potential to be much better ion this team than Hairston does this season. Yes, I do believe that.

[DPG21920]

He's the 5th option on this team. I don't care how exceptional you think RJ is, our championship chances don't hinge on him at all.

5th option is RJ's ceiling :lol. It could very easily go lower if Tiago or Anderson surprises.

No question Tim, Hill, Manu & TP are ahead of RJ

[Johnny RIngo]

Do Pop and RC think we won a championship last year?

RJ and Bonner were our two worst playoff perfomers, yet they both got long extensions. I don't get it.

Spurs can no longer laugh at the Hedo/Marion contracts. In fact, I'd probably prefer either player to RJ.

Bonner being here for four more years is even more depressing because the two contracts(his and RJ's) practically guarantees we'll be a pretender for four more years instead of going ahead with the much needed rebuilding process.

[ElNono]

trading parker is definitely an option.

lol... so our plan is trade one of our 3 best players... well, that's some shitty way to go about the season... at least Dallas dumped Damp...

[DesignatedT]

So their plan was to trade Damp and ours Parker? I like their plan better.

No. never said that. go back and read the posts before trying to put words in my mouth.

[DPG21920]

I'm not saying it did, I'm just saying you can't equate the savings. They didn't HAVE to resign him. "Hey let's make deal... on second thought, fuck you." A reverse-boozer.

:lol I wish. Spurs don't roll like that. They have a hard enough time getting FA's as is.

[ohmwrecker]

I have already explained why letting RJ walk does not make the Spurs significantly worse THIS YEAR. It is not giving up when you have a chance to be better off than the year before.

Having RJ or not having RJ, I think the Spurs have close to the same shot. When you factor in TP bouncing back and Tiago, the Spurs did the same thing without the shitty RJ contract.

This is the basis of contention for everyone who disagrees with you, Dude. It's the rock and proverbial hard place. You aren't going to budge just like you will never convince me that rollin' with a couple of barely capable, D-league backups is the same as what RJ brings to the table.

[yavozerb]

So you honestly thing they could not have replaced RJ's shitty 3 PT shooting, bad defense and 12 PPG?

who do you suggest the spurs could have gotten to help with those categories ?

[oligarchy]

You don't need to rebuild.. everyone will definitely want to trade RJ's expiring.... right?

[DesignatedT]

lol... so our plan is trade one of our 3 best players... well, that's some shitty way to go about the season... at least Dallas dumped Damp...

When did I say that was our plan? You said dallas has options and we don't.... well thats definitely an option... isnt it?

[ElNono]

And the only way we trade tony is if he's got a deal in place for an extension with other team. I'm not even sure we can even S&T him if he walks next summer (pending new CBA rules).

[DPG21920]

I think RJ still has a lot more upside than what he showed last season. His defense improved as the season went on and by the time we were done it really wasn't bad. I think if both sides work on it his offense will definitely get better. RJ definitely has the potential to be much better ion this team than Hairston does this season. Yes, I do believe that.

Are you serious? He had some good defensive "plays" but he was a slightly below average defender overall.

You did not answer my question. Do you truly believe that the Spurs could not have replaced RJ's production from last year?

Malik is clearly a better defender than RJ.

[Death In June]

It's only July...

[ElNono]

When did I say that was our plan? You said dallas has options and we don't.... well thats definitely an option... isnt it?

I don't know if you're aware, but Tony is much more valuable as a player than as an expiring contract. When are you going to deal him? Do you want him to be talking contracts mid-season with another team?

[Johnny RIngo]

I think RJ still has a lot more upside than what he showed last season. His defense improved as the season went on and by the time we were done it really wasn't bad. I think if both sides work on it his offense will definitely get better. RJ definitely has the potential to be much better ion this team than Hairston does this season. Yes, I do believe that.

RJ's a bad fit for this team. One more season here isn't going to change that.

[DesignatedT]

Are you serious? He had some good defensive "plays" but he was a slightly below average defender overall.

You did not answer my question. Do you truly believe that the Spurs could not have replaced RJ's production from last year?

Malik is clearly a better defender than RJ.

I don't think the Spurs could have replaced what were going to get from RJ this season.... no

[DPG21920]

This is the basis of contention for everyone who disagrees with you, Dude. It's the rock and proverbial hard place. You aren't going to budge just like you will never convince me that rollin' with a couple of barely capable, D-league backups is the same as what RJ brings to the table.

What did RJ bring to the table. All I have said is that RJ's value could have been replaced or at least they could have gotten close.

RJ is the best player available overall, but not as a fit.

[DPG21920]

I don't think the Spurs could have replaced what were going to get from RJ this season.... no

That is not what I asked. I said last season.

[oligarchy]

Also, who are you going to deal him to that wants him as a one year rental?

That is an excellent "option."

[teeclark]

When did I say that was our plan? You said dallas has options and we don't.... well thats definitely an option... isnt it?
You are pretty level headed I can tell and don't speak based off of emotion as much as others on this board.....cheers to you dude.:toast
We won titles with worse players than RJ! He might actually mesh like others have over the years.

[DPG21920]

who do you suggest the spurs could have gotten to help with those categories ?

Malik is already a better defender, so that helps there. A guy like Simmons could have replaced the 3 PT shooting and combined I think him and Malik could have gotten enough points (Maybe 8 PPG) to keep things close with improved defense and 3 PT shooting.

[DesignatedT]

I don't know if you're aware, but Tony is much more valuable as a player than as an expiring contract. When are you going to deal him? Do you want him to be talking contracts mid-season with another team?

Oh my god bro. I don't want to trade Tony and I never wanted to trade Tony and I think it would be a terrible idea to trade Tony. You were telling me that Dallas has positioned themselves in a better position to win the championship because they could "potentially" trade for cp3 around the trade deadline :lmao and then you said they left themselves with options and we have no options. I just said that trading TP would be an option. Yes, I understand its a shitty option.. but its an option correct????????

[ElNono]

Dallas has $26m expiring right now...
Spurs? $13.5m from Tony...

[DesignatedT]

That is not what I asked. I said last season.

and I told you he will be better next season.

[DesignatedT]

You are pretty level headed I can tell and don't speak based off of emotion as much as others on this board.....cheers to you dude.:toast
We won titles with worse players than RJ! He might actually mesh like others have over the years.

:toast

[024]

if the 4yrs/$40 million is true, then it's either pop really believes in jefferson or the entire FO has gone crazy. this definitely sounds like a prearranged deal, which begs the question why the spurs want jefferson locked up long term and not give him another year before offering another contract.

[DPG21920]

You are pretty level headed I can tell and don't speak based off of emotion as much as others on this board.....cheers to you dude.:toast
We won titles with worse players than RJ! He might actually mesh like others have over the years.

We have won titles with worse players than RJ no doubt. That was because they were system players.

They were players who meant more to the Spurs than they did to other teams because of the system and fit.

The whole was greater than the sum of it's parts.

[boo_radley]

Dallas has $26m expiring right now...
Spurs? $13.5m from Tony...
But that's all a bit irrelevant isn't it? At least until we have some clue what is going to happen with the CBA

[coyotes_geek]

Malik is clearly a better defender than RJ.

Based on what? The whopping 472 minutes Hairston has in his NBA career, most of which came during garbage time? I don't see how you can definitively say Malik is a better defender when he has yet to guard any of the guys Richard Jefferson has been asked to guard.

[AFBlue]

That's a lot of cheese and doesn't make a whole lot of sense if it's fully guaranteed and backloaded with standard escalations each year. Still, it's informed speculation at this point...not factual.

[DPG21920]

Oh my god bro. I don't want to trade Tony and I never wanted to trade Tony and I think it would be a terrible idea to trade Tony. You were telling me that Dallas has positioned themselves in a better position to win the championship because they could "potentially" trade for cp3 around the trade deadline :lmao and then you said they left themselves with options and we have no options. I just said that trading TP would be an option. Yes, I understand its a shitty option.. but its an option correct????????

So you are arguing the Mavs have good options and the Spurs have shitty options?

You are also arguing since the Spurs beat the Mavs, they are better than the Mavs, but the Suns who swept the Spurs just showed the Spurs weren't far off from the "pack"?

[DPG21920]

Based on what? The whopping 472 minutes Hairston has in his NBA career, most of which came during garbage time?

That and watching RJ get burnt and lost. I hate that argument btw. The "limited minutes". I know it is taking it to the extreme, but you could say "how do you know Blake Griffin is better than Tiago"...same dumb principle.

Malik has the talent on defense. He always has. That is not the reason he did not stick. It is his offense.

Just because someone is not in the league or a better player overall does not mean they cannot possess a pretty obvious advantage over an NBA player in one area.

[spursfaninla]

Dallas has $26m expiring right now...
Spurs? $13.5m from Tony...

Those expiring contracts don't get CP3. They would need to trade for him in order to do so, and no way does NO take back expiring junk for their franchise player. You take back good picks or young players. NO can get that.

Those expiring $ will be good to get a dumped player that is expensive but good, historically.

[phxspurfan]

A big assumption in all these arguments is that RJ will perform the same way next year for the Spurs. Given recent history of free agents to hit SA with a First Year of Suck, I'd say RJ can do better next year and will. He will go through another training camp with the guys all fresh (incl a rejuvenated TP hopefully) and be ready to run.

But yes, I agree the contract stinks, even if the final year is is a team option. My guess is the Spurs will be shopping him before Tim retires.

[Chomag]

Based on what? The whopping 472 minutes Hairston has in his NBA career, most of which came during garbage time?

Hairston played more defence in that 472 minutes then RJ did all season.

[teeclark]

Everyone in the business can't be wrong about our front office being stellar....can they? This is there jobs to make these decisions and I am willing to bet all dynamics have and were taken into consideration. You must know all facts before you can make informed decisions.