M. Obama vacation-30 rms at 5 star hotel

[MaNuMaNiAc]

yeah, but you know, Cosmic's use of the word "pilgrimage" was just a "coincidence".

[Wild Cobra]

Flat out history. That you guys didnt know. Take a seat class, bell is about to ring.

Southern states tried to claim that the Constitution was not the law of the land...that the Articles governed.

Can anyone tell me why?

Class?

Thats right...because it was their way of sidestepping the protections in the constitution that would eventually give rights to all men. They wanted the right to keep slavery in their own states, they wanted to keep on bigot'in as they saw fit. The Articles were the ultimate authority if your aim was to secure states' supremacy over the fed gov's progressive ways at the time.

Homework for tonight: read up on this topic and I expect a report by tomorrow.
So you are saying they argued States Rights of the 10th amendment, and the federal government violated it. Right? What part of the constitution did they say was wrong?

Again, show me instead of being a Kool-Aid drinking lemming, repeating what you leaned in an institution of indoctrination.

If you know such things, you should be able to key word search the claim.

[spursncowboys]

Regardless, its a valid question. It would clarify just what the fuck Cosmic, Cobra and you are trying to imply!

so... what exactly is the answer? or are you going to refuse to answer under the guise of another bullshit excuse?
what exactly am I trying to imply? You want me to explain why I'm not a bigot. You effin idiot.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

to commemorate it-no. Is it a valid question though? I don't know much about michelle obama. barry was raised by commies. thought it ok for blacks to seperate from american society. Condemned his grandmother for being a typical white person. Chose to hang out with marxists. Went to a black theology church with Rev Wright for 20 years. I think it is a valid question. Although it's ridiculous to think you can get a real answer, even if you get past his obamabots, from this administration.

Its a valid question if you seek to score cheap political points in an attempt to paint the Obama's as something its already been proven they are not. In other words, you're making up bullshit to back up a bullshit claim that the Obama's are somehow tied to the muslim faith, which in and of itself seems to be a dirty word in America now a days.

Though again, you give a two way answer. You don't think they went there because of some pilgrimage to commemorate muslim history but you think its a valid question? You are so transparent.

[Wild Cobra]

to commemorate it-no. Is it a valid question though? I don't know much about michelle obama. barry was raised by commies. thought it ok for blacks to seperate from american society. Condemned his grandmother for being a typical white person. Chose to hang out with marxists. Went to a black theology church with Rev Wright for 20 years. I think it is a valid question. Although it's ridiculous to think you can get a real answer, even if you get past his obamabots, from this administration.
Yes, with their known associates, it's a valid question.

MaNuMaNiAc...

Why is it OK for the left to race-bait, but not the right?

And why is point to a culture considered race? Isn't it cultural?

[ChumpDumper]

what exactly am I trying to imply?That's what we're asking you.

Why did you edit after you wrote a long answer?

yeah, but you know, Cosmic's use of the word "pilgrimage" was just a "coincidence".It's a coexistence!

[spursncowboys]

Its a valid question if you seek to score cheap political points in an attempt to paint the Obama's as something its already been proven they are not. In other words, you're making up bullshit to back up a bullshit claim that the Obama's are somehow tied to the muslim faith, which in and of itself seems to be a dirty word in America now a days.
that's cuz your a lil bitch. What did I make up exactly? Just because you liberals are scared of the muslim word doesn't mean anything. You guys are racist.

[ChumpDumper]

Yes, with their known associates, it's a valid question.Which known associates are demanding the Muslim reconquest of Spain?

Let's stick to this visit.


MaNuMaNiAc...

Why is it OK for the left to race-bait, but not the right?So, are you race baiting?

Yes or no.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Yes, with their known associates, it's a valid question.

MaNuMaNiAc...

Why is it OK for the left to race-bait, but not the right?

Its NOT ok for the left or the right to race bait. You know what else is not ok? to act like a child and play the "they did it first" crap as if that was a valid argument. I disagree that every criticism of Obama is tantamount to racism, just as much as I disagree with this bullshit claim that somehow Michelle Obama visited Alhambra on some kind of pilgrimage.

[spursncowboys]

That's what we're asking you.

Why did you edit after you wrote a long answer?
It's a coexistence!

cuz I remembered manumaniac is troll like you. I find it funny how you liberal trolls have hijacked this into name calling to us. race baiters are the biggest cowards. Instead of debating the issue, you focus on shutting it down. Because he put michelle in the wrong light. :lol you guys are the racist ones. I wonder what you could say if it was Hillary.

:lmao making fun of coincidence. who would have expected it?

[spursncowboys]

Its NOT ok for the left or the right to race bait. You know what else is not ok? to act like a child and play the "they did it first" crap as if that was a valid argument. I disagree that every criticism of Obama is tantamount to racism, just as much as I disagree with this bullshit claim that somehow Michelle Obama visited Alhambra on some kind of pilgrimage.
Is this moron playing middle man. Hey buddy thanks for the advice but you just called them, and possibly me, racist. Talk about child games.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Come on Cobra! Are you seriously going to sit there and pretend the word muslim hasn't acquired a negative connotation in politics now a days? (Regardless of how wrong I think that is, its a reality). Furthermore, are you seriously going to pretend you and the rest of the right in this forum doesn't throw accusations of muslim faith to paint the Obama's in precisely that negative light?

Seriously, what do you take people for?

[ChumpDumper]

cuz I remembered manumaniac is troll like you. I find it funny how you liberal trolls have hijacked this into name calling to us. race baiters are the biggest cowards. Instead of debating the issue, you focus on shutting it down. Because he put michelle in the wrong light. :lol you guys are the racist ones. I wonder what you could say if it was Hillary.Remember, I said you were an idiot first. You are proving to be a race baiter as well. I gave you the benefit of the doubt.


:lmao making fun of coincidence. who would have expected it?CC said it was not a coincidence. You have been implying it was not a coincidence.

This is why we are asking you what the hell you are trying to say. You're just too much of a pussy to come out and say it.

[ChumpDumper]

Is this moron playing middle man. Hey buddy thanks for the advice but you just called them, and possibly me, racist. Talk about child games.I am calling you and CC race baiters because you are race baiting.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

cuz I remembered manumaniac is troll like you. I find it funny how you liberal trolls have hijacked this into name calling to us. race baiters are the biggest cowards. Instead of debating the issue, you focus on shutting it down. Because he put michelle in the wrong light. :lol you guys are the racist ones. I wonder what you could say if it was Hillary.

:lmao making fun of coincidence. who would have expected it?

I'm a troll? :lol

I have yet to insult anyone in this thread and so far you've called me a little bitch and a moron. So who the fuck is actually trying to shut down the debate here?

and I didn't call you a racist, I said what is being done in this thread by Cosmic and yourself is race baiting. It is what it is. You feeling insulted by that accusation doesn't make it any less true.

[Wild Cobra]

Its a valid question if you seek to score cheap political points in an attempt to paint the Obama's as something its already been proven they are not. In other words, you're making up bullshit to back up a bullshit claim that the Obama's are somehow tied to the muslim faith, which in and of itself seems to be a dirty word in America now a days.

"My Muslim Faith." Slip of the tongue?

"57 states." isn'rt that a number used in the Muslim world for established Muslim countries?

According to Ali Abunimah (http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1426), The Obama's were well known to him and the Palestinian community in Chicago.

What does this mean to you lefties:

In the late 1990s, Abunimah met Barack Obama when the latter was a representative in the Illinois state senate. “He [Obama] impressed me as progressive, intelligent and charismatic,” says Abunimah. “I distinctly remember thinking, ‘if only a man of this caliber could become president one day.’”

In 2001 and 2002, the Woods Fund of Chicago, whose Board of Directors included Obama, made grants totaling $75,000 to Abunimah’s AAAN.

According to journalist John Batchelor, Abunimah “has remembered Mr. Obama’s speaking in 1999 against ‘Israeli occupation’ at a charity event for a West Bank refugee camp; and Mr. Abunimah … has also recalled Mr. and Mrs. Obama at a fundraiser held for the then-Congressional candidate Obama in 2000 at Rashid and Mona Khalidi’s home, where Mr. Obama made convincing statements in support of the Palestinian cause.” “[Obama] came with his wife,” Abunimah said. “That’s where I had a chance to really talk to him. It was an intimate setting. He convinced me he was very aware of the issues [and] critical of U.S. bias toward Israel and lack of sensitivity to Arabs.... He was very supportive of U.S. pressure on Israel.”

Said Abunimah in March 2007, “Over the years since I first saw Obama speak, I met him about half a dozen times, often at Palestinian and Arab-American community events in Chicago including a May 1998 community fundraiser at which Edward Said was the keynote speaker. In 2000, when Obama unsuccessfully ran for Congress I heard him speak at a campaign fundraiser hosted by a University of Chicago professor. On that occasion and others, Obama was forthright in his criticism of U.S. policy and his call for an even-handed approach to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.”

In June 2007 Abunimah said, “When Obama first ran for the Senate in 2004, the Chicago Jewish News interviewed him on his stance regarding Israel’s security fence. He accused the Bush administration of neglecting the ‘Israeli-Palestinian’ situation and criticized the security fence built by Israel to prevent terror attacks: ‘The creation of a wall dividing the two nations is yet another example of the neglect of this administration in brokering peace,’ Obama was quoted as saying.”

In January 2008, Abunimah told interviewer Amy Goodman: “I knew Barack Obama for many years as my state senator -- when he used to attend events in the Palestinian community in Chicago all the time. I remember personally introducing him onstage in 1999, when we had a major community fundraiser for the community center in Deheisha refugee camp in the occupied West Bank. And that’s just one example of how Barack Obama used to be very comfortable speaking up for and being associated with Palestinian rights and opposing the Israeli occupation.”


Then there are also Michelle's college day remarks concerning Muslims. Out of time for now, but remind me to look for it if someone else doesn't find it first.

[spursncowboys]

I've stated what I take you for. If you liberals are secretly hating muslims them that is on you. You libs are the ones who threw out the muslim shit. Parker calling someone such a effed up word, so nonchalantly, and sitting back and enjoying someone having to defend themselves. That is some sick shit.

[ChumpDumper]

Come on Cobra! Are you seriously going to sit there and pretend the word muslim hasn't acquired a negative connotation in politics now a days? (Regardless of how wrong I think that is, its a reality). Furthermore, are you seriously going to pretend you and the rest of the right in this forum doesn't throw accusations of muslim faith to paint the Obama's in precisely that negative light?

Seriously, what do you take people for?SnC says we are currently at war with Barbary corsairs in the year 1450.

[spursncowboys]

I'm a troll? :lol

I have yet to insult anyone in this thread and so far you've called me a little bitch and a moron. So who the fuck is actually trying to shut down the debate here?
the debate: michelle obama taking an entourage on her 8th vacation this year? When you want to talk about that? troll.

[ChumpDumper]

I've stated what I take you for. If you liberals are secretly hating muslims them that is on you. You libs are the ones who threw out the muslim shit. Parker calling someone such a effed up word, so nonchalantly, and sitting back and enjoying someone having to defend themselves. That is some sick shit.CC brought up the Muslim angle.

Why do you need to lie about that?

[Wild Cobra]

Come on Cobra! Are you seriously going to sit there and pretend the word muslim hasn't acquired a negative connotation in politics now a days? (Regardless of how wrong I think that is, its a reality). Furthermore, are you seriously going to pretend you and the rest of the right in this forum doesn't throw accusations of muslim faith to paint the Obama's in precisely that negative light?

Seriously, what do you take people for?
You're right. It's fun to say "Barack Hussein Obama." Not because of any racial connotations, but because people take it as such and make fools of themselves in doing so.

[ChumpDumper]

the debate: michelle obama taking an entourage on her 8th vacation this year? When you want to talk about that? troll.Why are you running away from the black Muslim angle you were so eager to embrace earlier?

[ChumpDumper]

"My Muslim Faith." Slip of the tongue?

"57 states." isn'rt that a number used in the Muslim world for established Muslim countries?Aren't you a complete idiot?


According to Ali Abunimah (http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1426), The Obama's were well known to him and the Palestinian community in Chicago.

What does this mean to you lefties:It means Obama met a dude.


Then there are also Michelle's college day remarks concerning Muslims. Out of time for now, but remind me to look for it if someone else doesn't find it first.What are you trying to say?

Spit it out.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I've stated what I take you for. If you liberals are secretly hating muslims them that is on you. You libs are the ones who threw out the muslim shit. Parker calling someone such a effed up word, so nonchalantly, and sitting back and enjoying someone having to defend themselves. That is some sick shit.

:lol @ the bullshit! You seriously think you're fooling anyone?

and I couldn't give two shits what Parker called you or anyone else. I'm not the forum nanny, if he called you names take it up with him. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[spursncowboys]

I never called you a nanny.
Topic you asked. What am I trying to assume right? I'm just saying that what CC said was not racist and it should be ok to ask michelle's first visit in spain was, coincidentally, also a very popular moor site. It probably has nothing to do with Michelle's degree in African American studies probably covered it. Wait should we be talking about this? Sorry, I'll tip the next black waitress more.
-M5G2nWP3xY

wtf you talking about? fooling who?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

the debate: michelle obama taking an entourage on her 8th vacation this year? When you want to talk about that? troll.

yeah, that's it, shift the focus of the conversation, that'll make everyone forget about the idiocy displayed in the past 7 pages of this thread.

but I'll give you an answer

Honestly, I'd have to agree with Manny on this. Its a pretty fucking insensitive thing to do at this point in time and a pretty damn idiotic thing to do from the political angle.

See how easy it is to give a straight answer?

[spursncowboys]

yeah, that's it, shift the focus of the conversation, that'll make everyone forget about the idiocy displayed in the past 7 pages of this thread.

but I'll give you an answer

Honestly, I'd have to agree with Manny on this. Its a pretty fucking insensitive thing to do at this point in time and a pretty damn idiotic thing to do from the political angle.

See how easy it is to give a straight answer?
Your trolling. that is the op. why don't you let me know what you think about michelle spending and taking 40 friends?

[ChumpDumper]

I never called you a nanny.
Topic you asked. What am I trying to assume right? I'm just saying that what CC said was not racist and it should be ok to ask michelle's first visit in spain was, coincidentally, also a very popular moor site. It probably has nothing to do with Michelle's degree in African American studies probably covered it. Wait should we be talking about this? Sorry, I'll tip the next black waitress more.CC said it was no coincidence.

You said a coincidence is a coexistence, then you implied Obama's choice was no coincidence.

Then you repeatedly lied about what CC said.

[ChumpDumper]

Your trolling. that is the op. why don't you let me know what you think about michelle spending and taking 40 friends?He just did, you idiot.

You quoted it.

Here is the link to the post where you quoted it:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4567571&postcount=277

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Just to clarify, I'm a lot less liberal than you give me credit for. Not that it matters since your favorite passtime is to call anyone that disagrees with you a dirty lib and leave the others to figure out what the hell you're talking about.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Your trolling. that is the op. why don't you let me know what you think about michelle spending and taking 40 friends?

Is this a joke?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

He just did, you idiot.

You quoted it.

Here is the link to the post where you quoted it:

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4567571&postcount=277

:lol

[spursncowboys]

when parker first started with calling cc racist, I put

a bigot for bring up the coincidence? I find it much worse to just put your head in the sand. do non trolls get it?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

when parker first started with calling cc racist, I put
do non trolls get it?

except Cosmic was saying it was NOT a coincidence. Its RIGHT THERE in his posts! Go back and reread.

[ChumpDumper]

when parker first started with calling cc racist, I put

do non trolls get it?Yes, they get that you don't get that CC's entire argument was that it was not a coincidence.

It was an angle you decided to play to until asked point blank if you thought she made her visit to commemorate black Muslim power.

You posted "no" -- then edited that post so there was no answer to the question. You then attempted to walk back from the racial/religious angle because you knew you were race baiting and now you feel kind of stupid about it.

Do you finally realize that CC was saying it was not a coincidence?

[spursncowboys]

except Cosmic was saying it was NOT a coincidence. Its RIGHT THERE in his posts! Go back and reread.
Am I cosmic? The entire time I was posting that people should be able to question. I used coincedence to stay neutral bcuz I don't know much about michelle except she was raised in and worked for the daly chicago machine.

[spursncowboys]

I was also commenting on how chump, mig, and parker are fucked up for calling people these names that should be held for real reasons of bigotry and racism. Not to shut down conversation.

[spursncowboys]

Funny how something like that has to be restated instead of people paying attention to my post if they are going to condemn me for something.

[ChumpDumper]

Am I cosmic? The entire time I was posting that people should be able to question. I used coincedence to stay neutral bcuz I don't know much about michelle except she was raised in and worked for the daly chicago machine.You don't even know what you said, much less what other posters said.

[ChumpDumper]

I was also commenting on how chump, mig, and parker are fucked up for calling people these names that should be held for real reasons of bigotry and racism. Not to shut down conversation.I said CC and you were race and religion baiting because you were.

I called you an idiot after you did something idiotic.

And a hypocrite after you made a hypocritical post.


Funny how something like that has to be restated instead of people paying attention to my post if they are going to condemn me for something.You said CC was talking about a coincidence when he was clearly saying it was not a coincidence.

You said a coincidence is a coexistence.

[ChumpDumper]

I absolutely think it was racially motivated and you guys are just too knee jerk politically correct to even consider that blacks can think about race too.Funny how something like that has to be restated instead of SnC paying attention to his post before declaring that CC said it was a coincidence.

[spursncowboys]

chump :lol
always showing how stupid you are. I honestly believe you don't get it. There's nothing I can do about that.

[ChumpDumper]

chump :lol
always showing how stupid you are. I honestly believe you don't get it. There's nothing I can do about that.snc:lol
always showing how stupid you are. I honestly believe you don't get it. There's nothing i can do about that.

CC said it was not a coincidence.

You said a coincidence is a coexistence.

[Blake]

these douchbags use words we consider vile, like bigot and racist, as ways to shut you up from asking questions.


:lmao
What a fucking moron.


You are on my ignore and anytime I actually read your post, it reaffirms my reasoning for ignoring you in the first place. effin allstar.


what exactly am I trying to imply? You want me to explain why I'm not a bigot. You effin idiot.


that's cuz your a lil bitch. What did I make up exactly? Just because you liberals are scared of the muslim word doesn't mean anything. You guys are racist.


cuz I remembered manumaniac is troll like you. I find it funny how you liberal trolls have hijacked this into name calling to us. race baiters are the biggest cowards. Instead of debating the issue, you focus on shutting it down. Because he put michelle in the wrong light. :lol you guys are the racist ones. I wonder what you could say if it was Hillary.



Is this moron playing middle man.


When you want to talk about that? troll.


I was also commenting on how chump, mig, and parker are fucked up for calling people these names that should be held for real reasons of bigotry and racism. Not to shut down conversation.

so what are your reasons for name calling?

fwiw, I still don't think you know how the ignore feature works. You might ask MiamiHeat or Phenomanul for guidance.

[Parker2112]

Am I cosmic? The entire time I was posting that people should be able to question. I used coincedence to stay neutral bcuz I don't know much about michelle except she was raised in and worked for the daly chicago machine.

I never aimed the bigot word at you SnC. I dont like you defending the shit, but whatthefuckever.

As for calling him out, I do enjoy outing bigots who spout out disparaging remarks about Obama, couched in the minimally required PC, but who are finally revealed to be bigots. Thats CC. Fuck him. For now and for good. His goose is cooked in my book.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yet, somehow he lives.

[Parker2112]

in my book, as in, with me. His words no longer even warrant consideration from me. He gets no respect from me either.

[Marcus Bryant]

I wonder how he'll sleep at night.

[Parker2112]

makes no difference

[MannyIsGod]

I used to think Darrin was the dumbest political forum poster. I was wrong. I think Darrin can correctly use a dictionary.

Congrats, SnC.

[spursncowboys]

Mig. That's so ironic coming from u. watched ur fail so many times. Keep it up professor.

[MannyIsGod]

I leave it to the judges in the court of public opinion, SnC.

[CosmicCowboy]

So lets phrase this another way.

Do you guys think that Michelle Obama is post-racial?

That is, that race has absolutely nothing to do with her opinions, what she chooses to do and how she views the world?

[MannyIsGod]

So lets phrase it a different way that completely changes the angle and ignores what you said in several posts?

There is a complete difference between assuming the main, foremost or only reason someone goes somewhere is due to religious and racial reasons (specifically black or African Muslims conquering White Europeans) or if they consider race in any of their views.

You're not just moving goalposts, you're changing the game.

[ChumpDumper]

So lets phrase this another way.

Do you guys think that Michelle Obama is post-racial?

That is, that race has absolutely nothing to do with her opinions, what she chooses to do and how she views the world?So lets phrase this another way.

Do you guys think that Michelle Obama is exclusively racial?

That is, that race has absolutely everything to do with all her opinions, everything she chooses to do and every view she has of the world?

[CosmicCowboy]

Why don't you guys just answer the question?

Yes or No.

It's really not that hard.

[CavsSuperFan]

Fish don't fry in the kitchen,
Beans don't burn on the grill.
Took a whole lotta tryin'
Just to get up that hill.
Now we're up in the big leagues,
Gettin' our turn at bat!
As long as we live,
It's you and me, baby!
There ain't nothin' wrong with that!


Well we're movin' on up!
To the east side!
To a dee-luxe apartment in the sky,
We're movin' on up!
To the east side!
Community Organizers got a BIG piece of the pie.

[MannyIsGod]

Why don't you guys just answer the question?

Yes or No.

It's really not that hard.

Of course race factors into her views. Race factors into almost everyone's views.

That is NOT what you said however. Its not even close. Saying that race factors into someone's views isn't the same as someone choose to go to this place because they want to commemorate African Muslims taking over Europe.

[ChumpDumper]

Why don't you guys just answer the question?

Yes or No.

It's really not that hard.I don't think that is an either/or question in the case of the Alhambra visit. Sure, race may shape some of the choices she makes and the way she thinks -- but your contention that she could only choose to visit a place for racial reasons when millions of people of all races and religions visit the same place is categorically stupid. It says far more about how race influences your thinking than anyone else's.

So the answer to your question is "Cosmic Cowboy is definitely not post-racial."

[balli]

No. I don't think M. Obama is post-racial. Nor do I think she should be. There are millions of Americans who would just assume see her sitting back up on the porch. Post-racialism can't combat the hatred of conservatism.

[ChumpDumper]

Fish don't fry in the kitchen,
Beans don't burn on the grill.
Took a whole lotta tryin'
Just to get up that hill.
Now we're up in the big leagues,
Gettin' our turn at bat!
As long as we live,
It's you and me, baby!
There ain't nothin' wrong with that!


Well we're movin' on up!
To the east side!
To a dee-luxe apartment in the sky,
We're movin' on up!
To the east side!
Community Organizers got a BIG piece of the pie.What is that even supposed to mean?

[MannyIsGod]

CC, you never said race factored in to her decision. You said race (and religion) WAS the reason she visited.

You may not understand the difference for whatever reason, but the difference in that implication is about as wide as the grand canyon.

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh clearly every thought and act of FLOTUS is not race based. As hard as you try I don't think you will find anywhere that I made that claim.

However, this IS the woman that was ashamed of her country her whole life right up until it nominated her husband for POTUS.

It certainly seems like in her own words race is a huge factor in how she views her country and her world.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh clearly every thought and act of FLOTUS is not race based. As hard as you try I don't think you will find anywhere that I made that claim.

However, this IS the woman that was ashamed of her country her whole life right up until it nominated her husband for POTUS.

It certainly seems like in her own words race is a huge factor in how she views her country and her world.Why are you building yet another straw man, CC?

You said the only reason she went to Alhambra Palace was racial.

Just own that.

[ChumpDumper]

It certainly seems like in her own words race is a huge factor in how she views her country and her world.You proved that race is a huge factor in how you view the world.

[ChumpDumper]

And you misremebered the "ashamed of her country" bit -- but that's probably because of the way you view race.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh clearly every thought and act of FLOTUS is not race based. As hard as you try I don't think you will find anywhere that I made that claim.

However, this IS the woman that was ashamed of her country her whole life right up until it nominated her husband for POTUS.

It certainly seems like in her own words race is a huge factor in how she views her country and her world.

No one said you made that claim. You made the claim that the only reason she visited Alhambra was because of its racial and religious significance or more specifically the conquering of Europeans by African Muslims and that she was there to honor that.

YOU said that. Its in this thread. No one put those words in your mouth and no one assumed thats what you insinuated because thats what you said.

[CosmicCowboy]

And you misremebered the "ashamed of her country" bit -- but that's probably because of the way you view race.

Oh please.

If she's "not proud of" that only leaves two choices.

Ambivalent? Just didn't care one way or the other?

She was the politically active/aware wife of a US Senator. I think we can rule that one out.

You and I both know what she was saying.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh please.

If she's "not proud of" that only leaves two choices.

Ambivalent? Just didn't care one way or the other?

She was the politically active/aware wife of a US Senator. I think we can rule that one out.

You and I both know what she was saying.Your views on race have led you to your conclusion here.

Cosmic Cowboy is not post-racial.

[MannyIsGod]

I suggest to you that if you're this ashamed of your bigoted comments then you should just stop being stubborn and accept why your view is so fucked up and do your best to adapt. Otherwise just embrace this shit and stop trying to justify it as something other than what it is.

[Wild Cobra]

Fish don't fry in the kitchen,
Beans don't burn on the grill.
Took a whole lotta tryin'
Just to get up that hill.
Now we're up in the big leagues,
Gettin' our turn at bat!
As long as we live,
It's you and me, baby!
There ain't nothin' wrong with that!


Well we're movin' on up!
To the east side!
To a dee-luxe apartment in the sky,
We're movin' on up!
To the east side!
Community Organizers got a BIG piece of the pie.
That was a fun show to watch. I used to watch it in the 70's when it came out.

About the community organizer. What does one do other than keep the stereotypes alive, in an organized manner, rather than actually improving it?

[MannyIsGod]

Oh please.

If she's "not proud of" that only leaves two choices.

Ambivalent? Just didn't care one way or the other?

She was the politically active/aware wife of a US Senator. I think we can rule that one out.

You and I both know what she was saying.

Do you know how Rorschach tests work? Perceptions on certain inkblots can tell a lot about how a person views and analyzes things.

Well, some might say that the way you perceive Michelle Obama's words and actions might say a lot about how you analyze and view certain people.

[CosmicCowboy]

None of us know her. None of us can know what her true motives were.

We do know that in what writings/dissertations that are available from her college days that black vs. white was a principal and reoccurring subject.

If I choose to suspect that a primary reason she chose to vacation at Alhambra is because of it's significance in black world history that in and of itself is not racist.

Plus I really could give a shit what you guys think about me. The fact that I can't even mention or discuss the issue without the "thought police" screaming racist says more about you than me.

[jack sommerset]

The Obongos are huge hypocrites. They rip the "fat cats" yet they act just like them.

[ChumpDumper]

None of us know her. None of us can know what her true motives were.You just said you did.


We do know that in what writings/dissertations that are available from her college days that black vs. white was a principal and reoccurring subject.

If I choose to suspect that a primary reason she chose to vacation at Alhambra is because of it's significance in black world history that in and of itself is not racist.It proves that race influences your thought as much as or more than you claim it influences Obama. Cosmic Cowboy is not post-racial.


Plus I really could give a shit what you guys think about me. The fact that I can't even mention or discuss the issue without the "thought police" screaming racist says more about you than me.Yes, you have spent many pages explaining just how much you don't care about what other people think about what you posted.

[ChumpDumper]

The Obongos are huge hypocrites. They rip the "fat cats" yet they act just like them.They are fat cats. Both were millionaires before they became the first couple. Why do you hate people who are more successful than you?

[MannyIsGod]

None of us know her. None of us can know what her true motives were.

We do know that in what writings/dissertations that are available from her college days that black vs. white was a principal and reoccurring subject.

If I choose to suspect that a primary reason she chose to vacation at Alhambra is because of it's significance in black world history that in and of itself is not racist.

Plus I really could give a shit what you guys think about me. The fact that I can't even mention or discuss the issue without the "thought police" screaming racist says more about you than me.

LOL thought police. Poor Cosmic Cowboy. He just wants to discuss - in his words - Michelle Obama's Black Pride History Tour in an objective manner.

You will find a lot of people at KKK meeting who are willing to have the type of discussions you'd entertain.

You've backtracked quite a bit. Now its a primary reason. Too bad thats not what you said earlier in this thread. However, the backtracking to that point is an acknowledgement that what you said to start off this thread was wrong. I just wish you were man enough to actually admit it.

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL @ Manny talking shit about "being a man".

[MannyIsGod]

No shit talking. I just honestly wish you had manned up in this thread instead of backtracking the way you did. I wasn't kidding early on when I said I pitied the way you reacted to these things. Judging by you posts in the follow pages you're not very proud either.

[clambake]

cowboy, right about now would be a good time to bow out of this thread.

[jack sommerset]

They are fat cats. Both were millionaires before they became the first couple. Why do you hate people who are more successful than you?

Dumper of Chumps. You are trying to hard lately. Obongos are hypocrites and this has nothing to do with me. Go fuck yourself, fag.

[clambake]

pretty easy to read your mind, jack.

[ChumpDumper]

Dumper of Chumps. You are trying to hard lately. Obongos are hypocrites and this has nothing to do with me.They are fat cats, so they are talking about ending their own tax cuts.

I'll venture a guess that they are planning on keeping yours in place.


Go fuck yourself, fag.U mad?

[CosmicCowboy]

No shit talking. I just honestly wish you had manned up in this thread instead of backtracking the way you did. I wasn't kidding early on when I said I pitied the way you reacted to these things. Judging by you posts in the follow pages you're not very proud either.

Could you point out the specific reprehensible post that you claim I'm backtracking from?

[ChumpDumper]

pretty easy to read your mind, jack.Jack's a hypocrite because all he thinks about is dudes having sex.

[Wild Cobra]

The Obongos are huge hypocrites. They rip the "fat cats" yet they act just like them.

And use the government expenditures as if they were royalty.

No other president comes to mind that has used so much in tax payer dollars for vacations. I don't mean the number of days, but rather the expenses involved of where they went. I have no problem with required security, but this is going overboard. I at least hope the government didn't pay a dime for Michelle's entourage.

[ChumpDumper]

And use the government expenditures as if they were royalty.

No other president comes to mind that has used so much in tax payer dollars for vacations. I don't mean the number of days, but rather the expenses involved of where they went. I have no problem with required security, but this is going overboard. I at least hope the government didn't pay a dime for Michelle's entourage.Do you have all the expenses of each president for comparison, or are you just making shit up again?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Could you point out the specific reprehensible post that you claim I'm backtracking from?

How about this one?


:lol

Manny and I agree! Amazing!

And I found it EXTREMELY interesting that the FIRST place she visited was the Alhambra Castle. It's not particularly significant architecturally but is historically significant as the seat of power when the Moors (non-white Muslims from North Africa) invaded Spain and almost conquered all of Europe in 711AD.

Ain't THAT some shit?

...or this one


Oh REALLY?

You don't find it the least bit interesting that of all the places in world she could have vacationed she chooses the city that was the capital of the Moorish Empire in Europe and the first place she visits is the Moorish Castle?

You REALLY don't see the irony of a little Black Pride History Tour on the taxpayer dime?

or maybe this one


I absolutely think it was racially motivated and you guys are just too knee jerk politically correct to even consider that blacks can think about race too.

aaah, maybe its this one


I pointed out a fact.

She picked the spot to vacation.

Her first stop was a pilgrimage to Alhambra Castle.

Making that observation does NOT make me a racist.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

yeah, you're not implying that Michelle Obama's sole reason for visiting Alhambra is to commemorate black muslim power.

Honestly, I ask again, who the fuck do you think you're fooling??

[MaNuMaNiAc]

And use the government expenditures as if they were royalty.

No other president comes to mind that has used so much in tax payer dollars for vacations. I don't mean the number of days, but rather the expenses involved of where they went. I have no problem with required security, but this is going overboard. I at least hope the government didn't pay a dime for Michelle's entourage.

so do you know the exact numbers behind that assertion? that the Obama's have spent more tax payer money than any other president on vacations? just asking.

[CosmicCowboy]

Shit...I'm not backtracking from those statements.

I think that a highly educated FLOTUS who has expressed very polarizing black/white beliefs in the past and is very conscious of her black heritage took her young black daughter on a vacation to a spot that is HUGE in black world history.

Do you guys think she doesn't have a right to share that black history with her daughter?

[CosmicCowboy]

Y'all are fucking hilarious.

[ChumpDumper]

Shit...I'm not backtracking from those statements.

I think that a highly educated FLOTUS who has expressed very polarizing black/white beliefs in the past and is very conscious of her black heritage took her young black daughter on a vacation to a spot that is HUGE in black world history.What are her polarizing black/white beliefs? that stuff you made up because race influences your thinking so significantly?


Do you guys think she doesn't have a right to share that black history with her daughter?There is an inexhaustible supply of straw on your ranch.

[ChumpDumper]

Y'all are fucking hilarious.And you're a race baiter.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Shit...I'm not backtracking from those statements.

I think that a highly educated FLOTUS who has expressed very polarizing black/white beliefs in the past and is very conscious of her black heritage took her young black daughter on a vacation to a spot that is HUGE in black world history.

Do you guys think she doesn't have a right to share that black history with her daughter?

:lmao you're so full of shit

oh I see, so you were just being nonchalant about it. No big thing. Just a black person taking her young daughter to a significant black history site.

so what exactly do you find "extremely interesting" about it? what exactly is that shit you were talking about when you said "ain't that some shit"? what about it do you find "ironic"??

[CosmicCowboy]

What are her polarizing black/white beliefs? that stuff you made up because race influences your thinking so significantly?

Even if you forgive her writings in college as being "the idealism and radicalism of youth" you simply can't talk your way out of the fact that she couldn't be proud to be an American her whole life until they nominated her Black husband to be POTUS.


There is an inexhaustible supply of straw on your ranch.

So shouldn't she be able to teach/show her daughter black world history?

Yes or No?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Y'all are fucking hilarious.

no, you know what's fucking hilarious. You thinking that you fool anyone with all the bullshit you throw around to cover up for the bullshit you threw before.

Just so you know, the bullshit doesn't disappear it just piles up.

[ChumpDumper]

Even if you forgive her writings in college as being "the idealism and radicalism of youth" you simply can't talk your way out of the fact that she couldn't be proud to be an American her whole life until they nominated her Black husband to be POTUS.So you can't really provide any examples.

That's what I thought.


So shouldn't she be able to teach/show her daughter black world history?

Yes or No?Straw man.

You are trying to walk back from your race baiting yet again.

It's not working.

[CosmicCowboy]

so what exactly do you find "extremely interesting" about it? what exactly is that shit you were talking about when you said "ain't that some shit"? what about it do you find "ironic"??

Mainly the knee jerk reaction of you lib progressives on this board.

We are up to what...14 pages now of you guys accusing me of being a racist for noticing and pointing out that Alhambra Castle is an important monument in black world history?

[Wild Cobra]

so do you know the exact numbers behind that assertion? that the Obama's have spent more tax payer money than any other president on vacations? just asking.

No. I think it's pretty obvious that the places the Obama's have gone and the number of times require far more money that our previous presidents primarily going home for vacation.

Don't you?

[ChumpDumper]

Mainly the knee jerk reaction of you lib progressives on this board.

We are up to what...12 pages now of you guys accusing me of being a racist for noticing and pointing out that Alhambra Castle is an important monument in black world history?Yes, you have spent 12 pages race baiting and making straw men in an attempt to walk back from your race baiting, all the time saying you don't care what we think.

You sure showed us.

[ChumpDumper]

No. I think it's pretty obvious that the places the Obama's have gone and the number of times require far more money that our previous presidents primarily going home for vacation.

Don't you?So you are just making shit up again.

Thanks.

[Wild Cobra]

Mainly the knee jerk reaction of you lib progressives on this board.

We are up to what...14 pages now of you guys accusing me of being a racist for noticing and pointing out that Alhambra Castle is an important monument in black world history?
Like I said. It's OK for liberals to bring up race, but not us conservatives. i thought you leaned by now how hypocritical these board libtards are.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes, you have spent 12 pages race baiting and making straw men in an attempt to walk back from your race baiting, all the time saying you don't care what we think.

You sure showed us.

Actually I wasn't even here for about 6 of those pages. I went to the ranch yesterday/last night and don't get on the computer there.

[ChumpDumper]

Like I said. It's OK for liberals to bring up race, but not us conservatives. i thought you leaned by now how hypocritical these board libtards are.Conservatives can race bait all they want.

They shouldn't be pussies about it.

[ChumpDumper]

Actually I wasn't even here for about 6 of those pages. I went to the ranch yesterday/last night and don't get on the computer there.Yet here you are, race baiting, trying to walk back and making straw men.

You picked up right where you left off.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Mainly the knee jerk reaction of you lib progressives on this board.

We are up to what...14 pages now of you guys accusing me of being a racist for noticing and pointing out that Alhambra Castle is an important monument in black world history?

that's not what I asked you and you know it.

explain what you meant in this post


Manny and I agree! Amazing!

And I found it EXTREMELY interesting that the FIRST place she visited was the Alhambra Castle. It's not particularly significant architecturally but is historically significant as the seat of power when the Moors (non-white Muslims from North Africa) invaded Spain and almost conquered all of Europe in 711AD.

Ain't THAT some shit?

what is "extremely interesting" about it??

[George Gervin's Afro]

Actually I wasn't even here for about 6 of those pages. I went to the ranch yesterday/last night and don't get on the computer there.

Why are you so concerned about race?

[CosmicCowboy]

And again, I'm not backing away from shit.

I think she chose Alhambra as her vacation spot for it's significance in world history and specifically from her black perspective on world history.

I did not say I thought that was wrong other than to point out she pissed off a lot of taxpayer dollars doing it.

You and the rest of the thought police made assumptions/statements that I simply didn't say.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Like I said. It's OK for liberals to bring up race, but not us conservatives. i thought you leaned by now how hypocritical these board libtards are.

oh stop with the bullshit! the forum isn't run by liberals. You can do whatever the fuck you want, which includes calling out liberals when they race bait. Ofcourse, you don't seem to have a problem with Cosmic doing it... I wonder why?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

And again, I'm not backing away from shit.

I think she chose Alhambra as her vacation spot for it's significance in world history and specifically from her black perspective on world history.

I did not say I thought that was wrong other than to point out she pissed off a lot of taxpayer dollars doing it.

You and the rest of the thought police made assumptions/statements that I simply didn't say.

Bullshit!

you said it was "EXTREMELY interesting" and "ain't THAT some shit"!!

Again, what exactly do you find extremely interesting about it? and what's this shit you're talking about?

can you give a straight answer??

[ChumpDumper]

And again, I'm not backing away from shit.

I think she chose Alhambra as her vacation spot for it's significance in world history and specifically from her black perspective on world history.

I did not say I thought that was wrong other than to point out she pissed off a lot of taxpayer dollars doing it.

You and the rest of the thought police made assumptions/statements that I simply didn't say.I said you were race baiting; you clearly were.

I said you tried to walk back from your race baiting, which you did and continue to do.

I said you made several straw men in an attempt to distract from your race baiting, which you did and continue to do.

[Wild Cobra]

oh stop with the bullshit! the forum isn't run by liberals. You can do whatever the fuck you want, which includes calling out liberals when they race bait. Ofcourse, you don't seem to have a problem with Cosmic doing it... I wonder why?
Do you know what "hypocrisy" is?

That has been my major point.

Can you show otherwise?

[George Gervin's Afro]

And again, I'm not backing away from shit.

I think she chose Alhambra as her vacation spot for it's significance in world history and specifically from her black perspective on world history.

I did not say I thought that was wrong other than to point out she pissed off a lot of taxpayer dollars doing it.

You and the rest of the thought police made assumptions/statements that I simply didn't say.

You think? Maybe she likes spain....

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Do you know what "hypocrisy" is?

That has been my major point.

Can you show otherwise?

Hypocrisy runs rampant in this forum. It always has. Including your sorry ass, so exactly what are you accusing people of? certainly not something your innocent of doing.

[ChumpDumper]

Do you know what "hypocrisy" is?

That has been my major point.

Can you show otherwise?you tried to say conservatives can't race bait on this board.

CC has been race baiting for two days.

Therefore, conservatives can race bait on this board.

You have no point.

[Wild Cobra]

Hypocrisy runs rampant in this forum. It always has. Including your sorry ass, so exactly what are you accusing people of? certainly not something your innocent of doing.
The arguing of it. It is taking away from any serious arguments.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

you tried to say conservatives can't race bait on this board.

CC has been race baiting for two days.

Therefore, conservatives can race bait on this board.

You have no point.

His point is liberals race bait and don't like when conservatives do it. I'd say he's right about a lot of people in this board.

ofcourse, he doesn't like it when libs do it but has no problem when conservatives do it... so why exactly is he accusing people for.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

The arguing of it. It is taking away from any serious arguments.

I agree. Now, do you or do you not think Cosmic's race baiting takes away from the original argument of this thread??

[ChumpDumper]

The arguing of it. It is taking away from any serious arguments.I think CC inadvertently contributed to quite a serious argument about how race influences an individual's thinking -- he just illustrated that it influences his thinking when he tried to ascribe that influence to Obama's thinking.

[CosmicCowboy]

I said you were race baiting; you clearly were.

I said you tried to walk back from your race baiting, which you did and continue to do.

I said you made several straw men in an attempt to distract from your race baiting, which you did and continue to do.

You accuse me us using a "straw man" in virtually every post and you clearly don't understand what a straw man is.

FYI, a Straw man is when:

#1 Person A has position X.
#2 Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
#3 Person B attacks position Y.
#4 Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

That clearly doesn't apply here.

So I have an opinion. I think her interest in black world history influenced her decision on her vacation destination.

SO WHY DOES CHUMPDUMPER THINK MICHELLE OBAMA CHOSE ALHAMBRA CASTLE FOR HER VACATION DESTINATION?

FOR ONCE GIVE A DIRECT ANSWER TO A DIRECT QUESTION.

[ChumpDumper]

His point is liberals race bait and don't like when conservatives do it. I'd say he's right about a lot of people in this board.

ofcourse, he doesn't like it when libs do it but has no problem when conservatives do it... so why exactly is he accusing people for.Right. Everyone can race bait and everyone else can call them out on it.

CC is making it interesting by squirming so much after being called out.

[Wild Cobra]

I agree. Now, do you or do you not think Cosmic's race baiting takes away from the original argument of this thread??
I think in order to discuss it, we should see that side, and take it as information rather than attack the assumed racial message as racist.

There is established facts that the Obama's have been involved with both radical leftists and have at least sympathy for Muslim ways. Michelle is on record as to supporting sharia law. Are these facts, the reasons why people want to cloud this and focus this as race baiting, to obfuscate facts?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

hey Cosmic,


Bullshit!

you said it was "EXTREMELY interesting" and "ain't THAT some shit"!!

Again, what exactly do you find extremely interesting about it? and what's this shit you're talking about?

can you give a straight answer??

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I think in order to discuss it, we should see that side, and take it as information rather than attack the assumed racial message as racist.

There is established facts that the Obama's have been involved with both radical leftists and have at least sympathy for Muslim ways. Michelle is on record as to supporting sharia law. Are these facts, the reasons why people want to cloud this and focus this as race baiting, to obfuscate facts?

so you're saying he wasn't race baiting?

[CosmicCowboy]

hey Cosmic,

Oh fuck off pissant. I already answered multiple times why I thought it was interesting.

[Wild Cobra]

I agree. Now, do you or do you not think Cosmic's race baiting takes away from the original argument of this thread??
More...

Take away from the original argument? No. Facts are that she went there, and it is fair to assume and debate possibilities.

I only agree that it is race baiting because that is how political correctness treats it.

[CosmicCowboy]

so you're saying he wasn't race baiting?

I was progressive baiting. We have already established that race influences our thoughts, perceptions, and actions.

[ChumpDumper]

You accuse me us using a "straw man" in virtually every post and you clearly don't understand what a straw man is.

FYI, a Straw man is when:

#1 Person A has position X.
#2 Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
#3 Person B attacks position Y.
#4 Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

That clearly doesn't apply here.Of course it does. You are so desperate to distract from your race baiting, you don't even realize how many straw men you have constructed.

It's really pretty pathetic. You need to go back and look at your posts. Every time I call you out for making a straw man, it's because you made a straw man.

Case it point:


So shouldn't she be able to teach/show her daughter black world history?That is a straw man. That is the "position Y" you presented.

I can't believe you have become such a bald-faced liar in this thread.


So I have an opinion. I think her interest in black world history influenced her decision on her vacation destination.

SO WHY DOES CHUMPDUMPER THINK MICHELLE OBAMA CHOSE ALHAMBRA CASTLE FOR HER VACATION DESTINATION?

FOR ONCE GIVE A DIRECT ANSWER TO A DIRECT QUESTION.I already said or intimated this several times, I think it was for the same reason most of the 2,000,000 other people visit Alhambra: it's quite scenic.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Oh fuck off pissant. I already answered multiple times why I thought it was interesting.

oh I'm sorry, could you please repeat it? 'cause I can't seem to find it anywhere in this thread

[ChumpDumper]

Oh fuck off pissant. I already answered multiple times why I thought it was interesting.Not really.

For once give a direct answer to a direct question.

[Wild Cobra]

so you're saying he wasn't race baiting?
See, here we are on this instead of the topic.

I don't think race baiting was intentional. When the left does it, it normally is intentional. Making race the focus for this nations past transgressions, or using it as an excuse to justify something.

Can you say with certainty that bringing known facts is race baiting? As long as that is the perception, we will never have equality between our races.

[ChumpDumper]

see, here we are on this instead of the tooic.

I don't think race baiting was intentional. When the left does it, it normally is intentional. Making race the focus for this nations past transgressions, or using it as an excuse to justify something.

Can you say with certainty that bringing known facts is race baiting? As long as that is the perception, we will never have equality between our races.Damn, this is stupid. Even for you.

If CC's race baiting was unintentional, then it simply indicates that the influence of race on his thinking runs deep into his psyche, as deep or deeper than the influence he claims people like Obama must have, which is worth discussion in itself.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I was progressive baiting. We have already established that race influences our thoughts, perceptions, and actions.

I can honestly say that I've never, EVER visited a tourist site on any country I've been to on the bases of race. EVER. So, no, race doesn't influence everybody in the way you seem to think. It sure does seem to in your case though.

[CosmicCowboy]

Of course it does. You are so desperate to distract from your race baiting, you don't even realize how many straw men you have constructed.

It's really pretty pathetic. You need to go back and look at your posts. Every time I call you out for making a straw man, it's because you made a straw man.

Case it point:

That is a straw man. That is the "position Y" you presented.

Bullshit. Try to follow here. I'm A and I presented both X AND Y.

You argued X and then ran like a little bitch from Y.




I already said this several times, I think it was for the same reason most of the 2,000,000 other people visit Alhambra: it's quite scenic.

OK...we agree to disagree. Just a total random scenic choice? uhhhhh OK.

[George Gervin's Afro]

See, here we are on this instead of the topic.

I don't think race baiting was intentional. When the left does it, it normally is intentional. Making race the focus for this nations past transgressions, or using it as an excuse to justify something.

Can you say with certainty that bringing known facts is race baiting? As long as that is the perception, we will never have equality between our races.

Facts? :lmao

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but cc acknowledged it was his opiniion. So by you're definition it was race baiting. Nice job proving your argument wrong

[Wild Cobra]

Bullshit. Try to follow here. I'm A and I presented both X AND Y.

You argued X and then ran like a little bitch from Y.



OK...we agree to disagree. Just a total random scenic choice? uhhhhh OK.
Reasons like that's why I placed that pile of shit on IGNORE.

[ChumpDumper]

Bullshit. Try to follow here. I'm A and I presented both X AND Y.

You argued X and then ran like a little bitch from Y.:lmao

You have to be a bit frenzied now. You don't even know you just admitted making the straw man.

If you really need your straw men flowcharted for you, you are as ignorant as you are dishonest.


OK...we agree to disagree. Just a total random scenic choice? uhhhhh OK.It wasn't random. They were close by on the Spanish coast. It's like taking a vacation in Austin and making a side trip to see the Alamo.

Millions of people do it.

Give me a direct answer to this direct question:

Why do you think her reason for visiting Alhambra have to be racial?

[clambake]

the other bad thing in this thread is your supporting cast.

don't you wish they would go away, cowboy?

[ChumpDumper]

Reasons like that's why I placed that pile of shit on IGNORE.How would you even know what that argument was if you can't read my posts?

[CosmicCowboy]

*sigh*

Try to follow here chump.

I will repeat it one more time...A straw man is when:

#1 Person A has position X.
#2 Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
#3 Person B attacks position Y.
#4 Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

What you are calling a straw man is:

Person A has position X
Person B attacks position X
Person A also presents position Y
Person B runs like a little bitch from position Y and yells straw man.
Person B doesn't know the definition of straw man.

[clambake]

actually, there is no argument in this thread.

the verdict's out.

[clambake]

and this continued back peddling is embarrassing.

[ChumpDumper]

You accuse me us using a "straw man" in virtually every post and you clearly don't understand what a straw man is.

FYI, a Straw man is when:

#1 Person A has position X.
#2 Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
#3 Person B attacks position Y.
#4 Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.#1 ChumpDumper's position is that Obama did not necessarily visit Alhambra for racial reasons.

#2 CC presents the position that ChumpDumper is against Obama's teaching her daughter about black history.

#3 CC attacks the position he presented that ChumpDumper is against Obama's teaching her daughter about black history.

#4 CC claims ChumpDumper's position that Obama did not necessarily visit Alhambra for racial reasons is false/incorrect/flawed.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't believe I had to spell it out like that.

I have trouble believing you are that stupid, CC. After the past couple of days, it's simply easier to believe you are being dishonest.

[CosmicCowboy]

#1 ChumpDumper's position is that Obama did not necessarily visit Alhambra for racial reasons.

CC agrees that is Chumpdumpers right to have that opinion.


#2 CC presents the position that ChumpDumper is against Obama's teaching her daughter about black history.

CC has no idea what Chumpdumpers position on the direct question is because he ran like a little bitch from the question and refused to answer it. Chumpdumper incorrectly whined strawman instead, showing his complete lack of understanding of the concept.


#3 CC attacks the position he presented that ChumpDumper is against Obama's teaching her daughter about black history.

Chumpdumper was too big of a pussy to answer the question so CC did no such thing.


#4 CC claims ChumpDumper's position that Obama did not necessarily visit Alhambra for racial reasons is false/incorrect/flawed.

CC specifically stated that CD was entitled to his opinion just like CC was.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

ok, I'm going to extricate myself from this thread 'cause frankly, Cosmic is flinging so much bullshit around that I'm afraid I'll be neck deep in it if I don't.

Good luck people

[CosmicCowboy]

ok, I'm going to extricate myself from this thread 'cause frankly, Cosmic is flinging so much bullshit around that I'm afraid I'll be neck deep in it if I don't.

Good luck people

That's just overflow from your diaper pissant.

[ChumpDumper]

CC agrees that is Chumpdumpers right to have that opinion.How magnanimous of you.

I wasn't asking for permission, I was describing a position in an argument.


CC has no idea what Chumpdumpers position on the direct question is because he ran like a little bitch from the question and refused to answer it. Chumpdumper incorrectly whined strawman instead, showing his complete lack of understanding of the concept.I didn't answer it because it was a straw man which had nothing to do with our original positions in the argument.


Chumpdumper was too big of a pussy to answer the question so CC did no such thing.Yes, I didn't let you get away with your straw man argument. Making a straw man like that is the act of a pussy.


CC specifically stated that CD was entitled to his opinion just like CC was.Now you don't even know what a position in an argument is.

Maybe you are that stupid.

[CosmicCowboy]

Fail, Chump.

See previous definition of Straw Man.

[ChumpDumper]

Fail, Chump.

See previous definition of Straw Man.I already spelled them out for you.

You are either being dishonest about understanding this or you really are stupid.

At this point I will accept either explanation. You have exhibited both quite clearly in this thread.

[CosmicCowboy]

I already spelled them out for you.

You are either being dishonest about understanding this or you really are stupid.

At this point I will accept either explanation. You have exhibited both quite clearly in this thread.

As have you. You clearly don't like someone playing the little "question" game back on you.

Fucking runaway pussy. You and your little "straw man" whine...

[ChumpDumper]

As have you. You clearly don't like someone playing the little "question" game back on you.I answered questions in this thread that did not come from your construction of straw men. Did you want a link to the answer I gave to the last non-straw question you asked?

Here:
I already said or intimated this several times, I think it was for the same reason most of the 2,000,000 other people visit Alhambra: it's quite scenic.See?


Fucking runaway pussy. You and your little "straw man" whine...Fucking pussy making straw men after running away from his race baiting.

[Wild Cobra]

As have you. You clearly don't like someone playing the little "question" game back on you.

Fucking runaway pussy. You and your little "straw man" whine...

As much as I hate this arguing against him, nice seeing you rip him a new one.

[George Gervin's Afro]

As much as I hate this arguing against him, nice seeing you rip him a new one.

I thought you had him on ignore?:lmao

[ChumpDumper]

As much as I hate this arguing against him, nice seeing you rip him a new one.Eh, he's just getting mad because his race baiting, straw man making and dishonesty is being exposed.

You react the same way, except you're an even bigger pussy with this IGNORE (caps yours) business.

[Wild Cobra]

I thought you had him on ignore?:lmao
I see the quoted words still.

God, you continue to reveal yourself as an absolute idiot.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I see the quoted words still.

God, you continue to reveal yourself as an absolute idiot.

sincerely,


the guy who thinks all blacks are racists

[ChumpDumper]

sincerely,


the guy who thinks all blacks are racistsEspecially the surgeons.

[Wild Cobra]

sincerely,


the guy who thinks all blacks are racists
No. I just think most are. Now I do incorrectly apply racist, but am using it in the same way most others do.

What's up.

Change the subject when I expose your stupidity?

Don't you see the quotes?

[George Gervin's Afro]

No. I just think most are. Now I do incorrectly apply racist, but am using it in the same way most others do.

What's up.

Change the subject when I expose your stupidity?

Don't you see the quotes?

So you and cc allow for race to permeate your thought process.....


but criticize others for not allowing you to interject race into any discussion when it comes to Obama and his family.... nice job:toast

[CosmicCowboy]

So you and cc allow for race to permeate your thought process.....


but criticize others for not allowing you to interject race into any discussion when it comes to Obama and his family.... nice job:toast

And race plays absolutely no part in your thought process? Or the Obamas?

:lmao

fucking hypocrite.

[Wild Cobra]

So you and cc allow for race to permeate your thought process.....
I wouldn't say that. However, if race is eliminated from obvious events, we ignore the facts. Don't we?

but criticize others for not allowing you to interject race into any discussion when it comes to Obama and his family.... nice job:toast
When race is used against reason, then yes.

Look at the Jena six. It was OK for them to act as they did because they were black.

Am I wrong? Look at how many people said those animals were justified in their revenge of whites. Who the fuck is using racial attitudes there, as a defense. Things like this are wrong. It is not right to use race as an excuse, or justification. I will stand by my decision to call those people racists.

If a white man attacks a black, it is automatically assumed it's for racist reasons. If a black man attacks a white, he has reason.

Fuck that moral superiority. Fucking racists.

[boutons_deux]

"Most of the attacks are based on the premise that the First Lady’s trip is costing American taxpayers money. Glenn Bleck told listeners that the trip “is costing you $75,000 a day,” and Tarantos claimed that Michelle Obama was bringing along “40 of her ‘closest friends.’”

Because the right wing has propagated so much misinformation about the size and cost of the First Lady’s trip, the Chicago Sun-Times’ Lynn Sweet published an article setting the record straight today. First, Michelle Obama brought only Sasha (Malia is at summer camp) along with two close friends, each of whom also brought their daughters. Second, the entire group paid for their own lodging and personal expenses. The New York Times reported that Michelle even reimbursed the government for the equivalent of two first-class commercial tickets for the flight on Air Force Two. (Her friends flew separately, on commercial flights). Finally, most of the rooms booked at her hotel in Spain belonged to Secret Service agents, and as Sweet wrote, “No matter where she goes — domestic or international — any first lady gets protection and she does not decide how many agents are needed.”"

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/09/michelle-vacatoin/

========

Anybody right-wing scumbags here have their own "facts" to refute the above?

[George Gervin's Afro]

"Most of the attacks are based on the premise that the First Lady’s trip is costing American taxpayers money. Glenn Bleck told listeners that the trip “is costing you $75,000 a day,” and Tarantos claimed that Michelle Obama was bringing along “40 of her ‘closest friends.’”

Because the right wing has propagated so much misinformation about the size and cost of the First Lady’s trip, the Chicago Sun-Times’ Lynn Sweet published an article setting the record straight today. First, Michelle Obama brought only Sasha (Malia is at summer camp) along with two close friends, each of whom also brought their daughters. Second, the entire group paid for their own lodging and personal expenses. The New York Times reported that Michelle even reimbursed the government for the equivalent of two first-class commercial tickets for the flight on Air Force Two. (Her friends flew separately, on commercial flights). Finally, most of the rooms booked at her hotel in Spain belonged to Secret Service agents, and as Sweet wrote, “No matter where she goes — domestic or international — any first lady gets protection and she does not decide how many agents are needed.”"

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/09/michelle-vacatoin/

========

Anybody right-wing scumbags here have their own "facts" to refute the above?

This should end the thread. nice job

[CavsSuperFan]

The 1st lady racked up over a million dollars in expenses on this quaint mini vacation…Paid for by the tax payers…I think this is wasteful….I guess this makes me a racist…

[Chomag]

The 1st lady racked up over a million dollars in expenses on this quaint mini vacation…Paid for by the tax payers…I think this is wasteful….I guess this makes me a racist…

Ya, pretty much have to just get with the times where if you are not of color yourself disagreeing with what a black man says or does labels you a racist.

[George Gervin's Afro]

The 1st lady racked up over a million dollars in expenses on this quaint mini vacation…Paid for by the tax payers…I think this is wasteful….I guess this makes me a racist…

No it makes you a dumbass because the total bill is no where near that

[CosmicCowboy]

No it makes you a dumbass because the total bill is no where near that

So what was the total cost?

[boutons_deux]

"just get with the times"

... which are polluted with Repugs', conservatives', hate media's race-baiting. eg, BecKKK's recent reference likening USA to Planet of the Apes, a dog-whistle to his racist listeners indicating the apes in the White House ruling over the whites.

[CosmicCowboy]

So what was the total cost?

*crickets*

[CavsSuperFan]

The cost was well over a million dollars just because the 1st lady wanted to show her fellow community organizers how to live it up on the working class dime…I am glad they had so much fun & they can now go back to Chicago & Yuk it up with Reverend Wright…

Change you can believe in…

[CavsSuperFan]

Hotel Villa Padierna, a Ritz-Carlton resort in the mountains outside Marbella… The resort boasts two golf courses, a posh spa with Turkish baths, views of the Mediterranean Sea and a high-end restaurant specialising in avant-garde fare… Private pool, 24-hour butler service, Al Gores favorite massage therapists flown in, private jets, extra secret service for fellow community organizers, fleet of Secret Service Suburbans flown in, C130’s, 747’s, Fighter jets, Cobras…. Mrs. Obama has taken eight such vacation trips…

Yea just a liitle weekend away at Motel-6 like most of us do every now & then…:lmao

[clambake]

i'd travel more if i were her. keep my kids away from southern fried dipshits as much as possible.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So what was the total cost?

I didn't make the claim so ask the guy who posted it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Hotel Villa Padierna, a Ritz-Carlton resort in the mountains outside Marbella… The resort boasts two golf courses, a posh spa with Turkish baths, views of the Mediterranean Sea and a high-end restaurant specialising in avant-garde fare… Private pool, 24-hour butler service, Al Gores favorite massage therapists flown in, private jets, extra secret service for fellow community organizers, fleet of Secret Service Suburbans flown in, C130’s, 747’s, Fighter jets, Cobras…. Mrs. Obama has taken eight such vacation trips…

Yea just a liitle weekend away at Motel-6 like most of us do every now & then…:lmao


How did they end up at the five star Villa Padierna, part of the Ritz-Carlton chain? Because of security concerns, there were just some places they could not go. Agents were able to secure Villa Padierna and the nearby beach area.

Do you take issue with the Secret Service now? You are a dumbass..

[in2deep]

:lmao

with this shit staying in the news, this country is more and more resembling a 3rd world country

[coyotes_geek]

:lmao

with this shit staying in the news, this country is more and more resembling a 3rd world country

Not really. It's just status quo. Back when Bush was prez his vacations were very important to blue team but no big deal to red team. Now that Obama is prez red team magically discovered concern for presidential vacations and blue team's concern mysteriously vanished. democrats = republicans

[DarrinS]

:lmao

with this shit staying in the news, this country is more and more resembling a 3rd world country



The media never complained about Bush vacations and his playing golf.

[CavsSuperFan]

Somehow I feel that the Obama’s overindulgence & wasteful spending is George Bush's fault…

[CosmicCowboy]

I didn't make the claim so ask the guy who posted it.

So you had no basis in disputing the numbers he quoted?


No it makes you a dumbass because the total bill is no where near that

[CosmicCowboy]

Do you take issue with the Secret Service now? You are a dumbass..

You do realize don't you that the Secret Service has multiple job functions besides babysitting Michelle Obama?

Would you agree that it costs the Secret Service much less to secure FLOTUS safety in Washington DC (or anywhere else in the US) than it does in Spain?

Your logic that "well, they have to have secret service anyway so that shouldn't count" is flawed.

[boutons_deux]

Laura Dubya travelled around with the usual SS entourage. Where was the outrage?

[CosmicCowboy]

Laura Dubya travelled around with the usual SS entourage. Where was the outrage?

I think the perceived difference is that when Laura Bush took her annual vacation without her husband it was always hiking with friends in various US National Parks, not jetsetting off to Mediterranean Spain on AF2.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So you had no basis in disputing the numbers he quoted?

so you have no idea either...and attaching your bandwagon to a guy who makes stuff up is par for the course..

[CosmicCowboy]

so you have no idea either...and attaching your bandwagon to a guy who makes stuff up is par for the course..


Look dumbass, I can certainly shed some light on some cost components...

Lets just talk about the plane alone...

From your own progressive defense piece:


Michelle even reimbursed the government for the equivalent of two first-class commercial tickets for the flight on Air Force Two.

Big fucking deal. So she reimbursed $3000 for the plane ride.

The C-32A (Boeing 757) operates at a Department of Defense reimbursement rate of $11,351 per hour.

So a 6.5 hour flight to Spain would run $73,781.50 - double for the round trip not counting anything for sitting on the runway in Spain, security, etc.

Saying she paid her own way is extremely disingenuous.

Then you will say "Well Republicans did THAT..."

So fucking what.

She is clearly out of touch with average people and their perception of what is and is not excessive. Own it bitch.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Look dumbass, I can certainly shed some light on some cost components...

Lets just talk about the plane alone...

From your own progressive defense piece:



Big fucking deal. So she reimbursed $3000 for the plane ride.

The C-32A (Boeing 757) operates at a Department of Defense reimbursement rate of $11,351 per hour.

So a 6.5 hour flight to Spain would run $73,781.50 - double for the round trip not counting anything for sitting on the runway in Spain, security, etc.

Saying she paid her own way is extremely disingenuous.

Then you will say "Well Republicans did THAT..."

So fucking what.

She is clearly out of touch with average people and their perception of what is and is not excessive. Own it bitch.

so i was right when stating it was no near 1 million dollars. thanks for proving me right again..:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

so i was right when stating it was no near 1 million dollars. thanks for proving me right again..:lmao

I didn't make the million dollar claim.

You didn't prove anything. I addressed ONE VERIFIABLE COMPONENT of the trip. It is impossible to address the Secret Service cost component as that is classified information.

Neither one of us can give a verifiable total.

Just don't try to sell that bullshit that she "paid her own way"

Congress pulls that shit constantly (both Republicans and Democrats) and it's deceptive and dishonest.

[DMX7]

"First Lady Michelle Obama took a lot of grief for her decision to vacation in Spain last week, a glitzy getaway that prompted one New York Daily News columnist to liken her to Marie Antoinette. But now we're learning more about the trip, which, despite the furor over its alleged excess, seems to have been launched with good intentions.

According to the Chicago Sun-Times' Lynn Sweet, the first lady made the trip because she wanted to spend time with her best friend, Chicago physician Anita Blanchard, who lost her father this summer. Blanchard (who is married to President Obama's best friend, Marty Nesbitt) planned a Spanish vacation with her daughter and invited the first lady and her daughters to come along. Michelle, who missed Blanchard's father's funeral in July, agreed and brought along her 9-year-old daughter, Sasha. The first couple's older daughter, Malia, is away at camp.
According to Sweet, one other mutual friend came along with her own two daughters. And according to the White House, all parties paid for their own hotel rooms and personal expenses.

Speaking of the hotel: As The Upshot speculated last week, it was the Secret Service that booked the Obama group's rooms at the luxury Hotel Villa Padierna, in part because agents could guard the perimeter of the property much better than they could at rival facilities."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100810/pl_yblog_upshot/first-lady-went-to-spain-to-spend-time-with-grieving-friend

[LnGrrrR]

As much as I hate this arguing against him, nice seeing you rip him a new one.

Not really. CC's contention that Chump should have to answer his question doesn't mean that CC's position is tenable.

[LnGrrrR]

The 1st lady racked up over a million dollars in expenses on this quaint mini vacation…Paid for by the tax payers…I think this is wasteful….I guess this makes me a racist…

Do you know if other Presidents have gone on vacation to another country? If so, how much did that cost?

[LnGrrrR]

I didn't make the million dollar claim.

You didn't prove anything. I addressed ONE VERIFIABLE COMPONENT of the trip. It is impossible to address the Secret Service cost component as that is classified information.

Neither one of us can give a verifiable total.

Just don't try to sell that bullshit that she "paid her own way"

Congress pulls that shit constantly (both Republicans and Democrats) and it's deceptive and dishonest.

I find it EXTREMELY INTERESTING that CC doesn't think Michelle paid her own way.

[hater]

The media never complained about Bush vacations and his playing golf.

the media complained about Bush's vacation length, not cost.

when media and population starts to complain of cost of vacation for the wife of a president = 3rd world country kinda shit

[LnGrrrR]

The C-32A (Boeing 757) operates at a Department of Defense reimbursement rate of $11,351 per hour.

So a 6.5 hour flight to Spain would run $73,781.50 - double for the round trip not counting anything for sitting on the runway in Spain, security, etc.

Saying she paid her own way is extremely disingenuous.

Is it your contention that she should pay for all of the above?

Or that she shouldn't take vacations abroad?

You have to believe one of the two.


Then you will say "Well Republicans did THAT..."

So fucking what.

She is clearly out of touch with average people and their perception of what is and is not excessive. Own it bitch.

Most Presidents are out of touch with average people. Most Presidents are not average people.

[ChumpDumper]

I think the perceived difference is that when Laura Bush took her annual vacation without her husband it was always hiking with friends in various US National Parks, not jetsetting off to Mediterranean Spain on AF2.Laura Bush went on several international trips without her husband.

[DMX7]

The Obama's total wealth is not that much. They can't afford to be paying their own way for every vacation.

Not that we can afford it either, but where were these complainers during the Bush years?

[hater]

dayum! 4 posts in d same thread at the same time!

[DMX7]

I think the perceived difference is that when Laura Bush took her annual vacation without her husband it was always hiking with friends in various US National Parks, not jetsetting off to Mediterranean Spain on AF2.

That's just factually wrong. But at least it confirms you're living in a different universe.

[CosmicCowboy]

That's just factually wrong. But at least it confirms you're living in a different universe.

prove it

[Chomag]

"First Lady Michelle Obama took a lot of grief for her decision to vacation in Spain last week, a glitzy getaway that prompted one New York Daily News columnist to liken her to Marie Antoinette. But now we're learning more about the trip, which, despite the furor over its alleged excess, seems to have been launched with good intentions.

According to the Chicago Sun-Times' Lynn Sweet, the first lady made the trip because she wanted to spend time with her best friend, Chicago physician Anita Blanchard, who lost her father this summer. Blanchard (who is married to President Obama's best friend, Marty Nesbitt) planned a Spanish vacation with her daughter and invited the first lady and her daughters to come along. Michelle, who missed Blanchard's father's funeral in July, agreed and brought along her 9-year-old daughter, Sasha. The first couple's older daughter, Malia, is away at camp.
According to Sweet, one other mutual friend came along with her own two daughters. And according to the White House, all parties paid for their own hotel rooms and personal expenses.

Speaking of the hotel: As The Upshot speculated last week, it was the Secret Service that booked the Obama group's rooms at the luxury Hotel Villa Padierna, in part because agents could guard the perimeter of the property much better than they could at rival facilities."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100810/pl_yblog_upshot/first-lady-went-to-spain-to-spend-time-with-grieving-friend


Back peddling much? The Obamas are really becomming masters at this.

[ChumpDumper]

Back peddling much? The Obamas are really becomming masters at this.How are they backpedaling?

[coyotes_geek]

The Obama's total wealth is not that much. They can't afford to be paying their own way for every vacation.

Right. They're only millionaires. Maybe we need some tax cuts so that millionaires can afford to take vacations.


Not that we can afford it either, but where were these complainers during the Bush years?

The same place where those who complained about Bush's vacations are now.

[CavsSuperFan]

Wow, such compassion from Miss M… Now that there is criticism, we get to hear the touchy feely reasons she had to go on a lavish trip with her fellow community organizers… She could have seen her "friend" who was grieving in the White House…How boring… She could have gone to the lady's home in Chicago…Windy City in August is hot & muggy…I think not…...Instead she wasted millions of dollars in taxpayer money to go to Spain with her possie…To visit a grieving friend who lives in Chicago?…All makes perfect sense now…. She may hate America, but boy can "Michelle Antoinette" Obama spend taxpayer’s money…No wonder why this is the first time in her life she is proud to be an American…

[ChumpDumper]

prove it[/QUOTE=Fox News, May 2002]WASHINGTON — Laura Bush is focusing on education and women's issues as she begins her first solo trip overseas representing the president -- a coming out on the international stage for the first lady.

Mrs. Bush and her daughter Jenna, 20, arrived in the rainy twilight Monday evening in Paris, first stop on a 10-day tour that also includes the capitals of Hungary and the Czech Republic....

....Mrs. Bush's itinerary is on the light side, with some days kept free for private sightseeing.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52667,00.html

I look forward to the forthcoming hair-splitting.

[LnGrrrR]

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/history/faculty/TROYWEB/LauraBushpreparesforfirstsolotripabroad.htm



WASHINGTON – Laura Bush takes in Paris in the springtime this week – and Budapest and Prague, too.
It will be her first extended solo trip abroad as first lady and, in many ways, an inevitable new step on a long trail blazed by her predecessors.
Jacqueline Kennedy did it with a splash 40 years ago with high-profile visits to India and Pakistan. And Hillary Rodham Clinton regularly traveled the world, promoting education, health care and micro-loan programs designed largely to help poor women.
On this trip, Mrs. Bush will be more low-key, though no less ambitious in her own businesslike way.
She will discuss education and health care, two issues that she has long advocated. And, in an unusual venue, she will direct a 15-minute address to Afghanistan on the Radio Free Europe network.
"It's a good opportunity for her to use a global stage to talk about something that's important," said the first lady's press secretary, Noelia Rodriguez, summing up the 10-day trip. "She's very much looking forward to it."
Mrs. Bush's daughter, Jenna, a 20-year-old student at the University of Texas, also will make the trip, along with one of President Bush's top aides, counselor Karen Hughes.


Of course, you could call it a "working vacation". Not sure if Michelle is doing something like this while abroad.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.arts.mcgill.ca/history/faculty/TROYWEB/LauraBushpreparesforfirstsolotripabroad.htm



Of course, you could call it a "working vacation". Not sure if Michelle is doing something like this while abroad.

You certainly don't have to take my word on it...


White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs last week tried to dismiss questions about the first lady's trip by saying, "She is a private citizen and is the mother of a daughter on a private trip."


White House adviser David Axelrod said Monday on CNN television, "Yes, she is the first lady of the United States. She's also a mom. She wanted to take her daughter on a trip. They went with some friends of the family to celebrate another little girl's birthday. There aren't all that many places to go where you get privacy. Wherever you go, security is going to come, not because she asked for it, but because that is a nature of her — of her position in life."

[LnGrrrR]

Anyways CC, my question still holds: Do you think that Michelle shouldn't be allowed to take an international vacation while her husband is President? Or do you think she should be able to pay the Secret Service, etc etc expenses as well?

[CosmicCowboy]

But certainly keep looking dude...As best as I remember you will also find a Laura Bush solo working trip to the Middle East to discuss breast cancer and womens rights. As I remember it pretty well pissed Saudi Arabia off...

And you will find that when she took PERSONAL TRIPS WITH FRIENDS she vacationed at various National Parks just like I said when you called me a liar.

[LnGrrrR]

But certainly keep looking dude...As best as I remember you will also find a Laura Bush solo working trip to the Middle East to discuss breast cancer and womens rights. As I remember it pretty well pissed Saudi Arabia off...

And you will find that when she took PERSONAL TRIPS WITH FRIENDS she vacationed at various National Parks just like I said when you called me a liar.

When did I call you a liar?

[Winehole23]

@ CC:

So then it's not the principle of the thing (vacations on the public dime), but instead the size of the bill that bothers you.

Correck?

[CosmicCowboy]

Anyways CC, my question still holds: Do you think that Michelle shouldn't be allowed to take an international vacation while her husband is President? Or do you think she should be able to pay the Secret Service, etc etc expenses as well?

Dude the only thing I have said is that she is clearly out of touch and doesn't understand the perception that such a trip leaves.

How can you possibly argue that? I'm not the one writing all these stories in the papers and don't blame it on Fox either...The New York Times (HARDLY a conservative paper) led the charge...

[CosmicCowboy]

When did I call you a liar?

Sorry. That was DMX7. You answered for him.

[ChumpDumper]

But certainly keep looking dude...As best as I remember you will also find a Laura Bush solo working trip to the Middle East to discuss breast cancer and womens rights. As I remember it pretty well pissed Saudi Arabia off...Why should the taxpayers pay for breast cancer awareness in the Middle East?

Wouldn't it have been cheaper to stay at home and make a video?

If all were talking about is money....


And you will find that when she took PERSONAL TRIPS WITH FRIENDS she vacationed at various National Parks just like I said when you called me a liar.Ah, the hair-splitting commences.

She never went anywhere else with one friend? I find that difficult to believe.

[CosmicCowboy]

@ CC:

So then it's not the principle of the thing (vacations on the public dime), but instead the size of the bill that bothers you.

Correck?

I keep saying that she is out of touch and doesn't understand the perception of the things she does.

Quit trying to make it where I said something else...

[Winehole23]

Dude the only thing I have said is that she is clearly out of touch and doesn't understand the perception that such a trip leaves.In this thread, perhaps. In a very recent thread you suggested the FLOTUS was celebrating Islamic rule in Spain and inspiring her daughter with negritude (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/negritude/) (or the like.)

[Winehole23]

Do you still think so?

[CosmicCowboy]

Why should the taxpayers pay for breast cancer awareness in the Middle East?

Wouldn't it have been cheaper to stay at home and make a video?

If all were talking about is money....

Ah, the hair-splitting commences.

She never went anywhere else with one friend? I find that difficult to believe.

I have already said I don't like "working" junkets whether they are done by republicans or democrats. Congress does it all the time and it sucks.

[CosmicCowboy]

Do you still think so?


There are about 10 pages in this thread you can easily review where my position on THAT subject is clearly stated.

Next?

[ChumpDumper]

There are about 10 pages in this thread you can easily review where my position on THAT subject is clearly stated.I don't think you ever explained why you thought it was so goldarn interesting.

[Winehole23]

There are about 10 pages in this thread you can easily review where my position on THAT subject is clearly stated.

Next?Lots of tergiversation (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tergiversation) and backpedalling to be found there, but precious little clarity IMO.

Love how you've gone from race-baiting and islamophobia to touting the most uncontroversial platitudes, tho. :tu

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't think you ever explained why you thought it was so goldarn interesting.

You and your progressive buddies MADE it interesting with your frenzied and passionate denouncements.

Dead Horse.

Next?

[ChumpDumper]

You and your progressive buddies MADE it interesting with your frenzied and passionate denouncements.
And I found it EXTREMELY interesting that the FIRST place she visited was the Alhambra Castle. It's not particularly significant architecturally but is historically significant as the seat of power when the Moors (non-white Muslims from North Africa) invaded Spain and almost conquered all of Europe in 711AD.

Ain't THAT some shit?The emphasis is yours.

[nkdlunch]

oh noes!!! his wife is out of touch!

impeach him!

[CosmicCowboy]

Neither one of us are Privy to Michelle Obamas inner motivation in making Alhambra the centerpiece of her vacation.

I clearly stated my opinion/speculation

You clearly tried to refute my opinion/speculation and when that failed just played the bigot card.

We will never agree with each other on this one and all reasonable arguments from both sides have been covered.

That horse is dead.

Next?

[ChumpDumper]

Neither one of us are Privy to Michelle Obamas inner motivation in making Alhambra the centerpiece of her vacation.

I clearly stated my opinion/speculation

You clearly tried to refute my opinion/speculation and when that failed just played the bigot card.

We will never agree with each other on this one and all reasonable arguments from both sides have been covered.

That horse is dead.

Next?Again, you never stated why you found it so "EXTREMELY" interesting.

Surely you can talk about your own reasons for being capital-letter interested.

[CosmicCowboy]

Again, you never stated why you found it so "EXTREMELY" interesting.

Surely you can talk about your own reasons for being capital-letter interested.

You quoted it 3 posts back. Read the second sentence.

I trolled, lit the firestorm, played for 10 pages or so, and you are still trying to relight it. I'm bored with this one.

Next?

[ChumpDumper]

You quoted it 3 posts back. Read the second sentence.

I trolled, lit the firestorm, played for 10 pages or so, and you are still trying to relight it. I'm bored with this one.

Next?I agree it's pretty boring, but no, you didn't say why you found it so interesting. Of course it would have to do with your perception that she was celebrating black Muslim power. You did affirm that you can't know that was her reason, but it has to be the reason you found it so interesting -- with everything that would imply. That is how innuendo works, after all.

[clambake]

it's not uncommon for old people to forget things.

[LnGrrrR]

Dude the only thing I have said is that she is clearly out of touch and doesn't understand the perception that such a trip leaves.

How can you possibly argue that? I'm not the one writing all these stories in the papers and don't blame it on Fox either...The New York Times (HARDLY a conservative paper) led the charge...

I expect Presidents, and wives of Presidents, to have the freedom to take vacations at times. Should they be gone for lengthy amounts of time? Of course not. But I won't begrudge a vacation, personally. It's not like she can just wave the Secret Service off or anything.

Edit: Not to mention the whole "Alhambra" thing.

[Winehole23]

The Alhambra: no architectural significance.:lol

[boutons_deux]

This entire Michelle Antoinette in Spain false outrage is nothing but Repug/hate media, rabble rousing noise, which they'd rather crank up than make positive contributions to the nation's problems, like tell us EXACTLY what spending cuts the Repugs say will reduce the (Repug) deficit significantly.

[jack sommerset]

Great. She is spending all that taxpayer cash in another country no less to help a friend grieve because she lost her papa. Give us a freaken break. You rip our country off,tell other people where to go on their vacations and how to spend their money then you throw out the sympathy card a week later because you are getting some bad press for it. Cry me a fucking river.

[LnGrrrR]

Great. She is spending all that taxpayer cash in another country no less to help a friend grieve because she lost her papa. Give us a freaken break. You rip our country off,tell other people where to go on their vacations and how to spend their money then you throw out the sympathy card a week later because you are getting some bad press for it. Cry me a fucking river.

You know that the Secret Service are being paid to protect her whether she goes overseas or not, right?

[Blake]

Great. She is spending all that taxpayer cash in another country no less to help a friend grieve because she lost her papa. Give us a freaken break. You rip our country off,tell other people where to go on their vacations and how to spend their money then you throw out the sympathy card a week later because you are getting some bad press for it. Cry me a fucking river.

The First Lady is taking a vacation to Spain, needs security because of who she is and that makes you upset.

Keep crying your fucking river.

[jack sommerset]

The First Lady is taking a vacation to Spain, needs security because of who she is and that makes you upset.


Yes and everything else I said about it.

[jack sommerset]

You know that the Secret Service are being paid to protect her whether she goes overseas or not, right?

Yup

[ChumpDumper]

Why do you hate those who are more successful than you, jack?

[LnGrrrR]

Yup

So then, assuming there wasn't a greater than normal amount of secret service, the only things that the taxpayer are on the dime for (more than the normal amount that is) is the cost of flying the plane/gas (which would be incurred for a trip within the states, but to a lesser amount). Am I right, or did I miss something?

[jack sommerset]

I would say you missed alot. "Do as I say not as I do" It gets tiresome with this administration. It does cost more to travel overseas. America is hurting money wise. And yes we should not have to pay for the Obongos to fat cat around the globe becasue she wants to help a friend grieve.

[ChumpDumper]

I think any administration, of any party, would love for people who have money to spend money on travel -- or anything really.

[jack sommerset]

Unless of course you want to go to Vegas.

[LnGrrrR]

I would say you missed alot. "Do as I say not as I do" It gets tiresome with this administration. It does cost more to travel overseas. America is hurting money wise. And yes we should not have to pay for the Obongos to fat cat around the globe becasue she wants to help a friend grieve.

But you're not paying for the Obamas to travel across the globe, you're paying for them to travel ANYWHERE they go. It's slightly more to go overseas, but doubtful that it's more than a few thousand.

Now, if you want to rail on the hypocrisy thing, feel free. But it seems silly to complain about taxpayers paying for Secret Service (because they do anyways) or where they stayed (since they paid for the hotels).

[jack sommerset]

But you're not paying for the Obamas to travel across the globe, you're paying for them to travel ANYWHERE they go. It's slightly more to go overseas, but doubtful that it's more than a few thousand.

Now, if you want to rail on the hypocrisy thing, feel free. But it seems silly to complain about taxpayers paying for Secret Service (because they do anyways) or where they stayed (since they paid for the hotels).

If you feel we should pay for her to vacation overseas to help a friend, feel free to do that. If you think it's ok to tell people one thing but do another, feel free to do so.

[ChumpDumper]

Unless of course you want to go to Vegas.No, they would like that as well.

[ChumpDumper]

If you feel we should pay for her to vacation overseas to help a friend, feel free to do that. If you think it's ok to tell people one thing but do another, feel free to do so.Is Michelle Obama telling people who have money to not travel?

Link.

[LnGrrrR]

If you feel we should pay for her to vacation overseas to help a friend, feel free to do that. If you think it's ok to tell people one thing but do another, feel free to do so.

But we're not paying for her vacation overseas by an amount significantly more than the amount we pay her to travel within the United States. Since we as taxpayers pay for her Secret Service already, and since she's paying for the hotels, the only extra thing the American taxpayer seems to be covering is the costs of the plane. I'm not going to get too worked up over $100,000 or so when we have so much other waste that could be eliminated. But other people are free to, of course.

[Wild Cobra]

This should end the thread. nice job
LOL...

You believe Think Pregress...

LOL...

Lol...

LOL...

[Wild Cobra]

You know what I want to know...

Why isn't Michael Moore making a big deal of it?

[Wild Cobra]

Great. She is spending all that taxpayer cash in another country no less to help a friend grieve because she lost her papa. Give us a freaken break. You rip our country off,tell other people where to go on their vacations and how to spend their money then you throw out the sympathy card a week later because you are getting some bad press for it. Cry me a fucking river.
If the first couple really cared about this nation, they wouldn't have it spend so much over them.

And disagreements?

[ChumpDumper]

If the first couple really cared about this nation, they wouldn't have it spend so much over them.So the Bushes and Reagans and all other first couples didn't care about the nation.

You said it.