I'm so excited about the Chevy Volt!

[Wild Cobra]

Govt loan picked a winner, Fox silent.
If you say so.

[CosmicCowboy]

It's a little early to call Tesla a success. Yeah, they are finally to market with a $70,000 plug in car and sold 4000 in Q1 but how much of that was pent up demand that was waiting for them to finally deliver product?

[Wild Cobra]

It's a little early to call Tesla a success. Yeah, they are finally to market with a $70,000 plug in car and sold 4000 in Q1 but how much of that was pent up demand that was waiting for them to finally deliver product?
I agree.

It's possible everyone who wanted a unique car now has one. Not many people willing to pay such prices. Still, the Tesla Roadster is real nice, and the Fisker... Really now... 38 mile range... What did anyone with half a brain expect?

[LnGrrrR]

This is INCREDIBLY smart, but it still requires some education of the public. I talk to people all the time who are getting ready to buy a vehicle and they are looking at SUVs or pickups. When I ask them why, they say "well what if I need it to help someone move" or some such excuse. Then I ask them to pile up all of those excuses and tell me how much they actually use the truck/suv "feature" of their vehicle and it is generally very little (some genuinely need a truck and I have no problems with that). I tell them they can buy a car, save money on the purchase, save money on the gas and rent a damn truck those few times a year that they need it.

We bought an SUV this year (the CX-9) and the only reason we did so was because we have two kids and are thinking about a third. (Plus, the trunks for Pontiac G6's suck balls.)

[boutons_deux]

Fox Slams Natural Gas Cars It Once Defended
Fox News' Stuart Varney portrayed a natural gas automaker as a "green energy failure," even though he pushed the federal government to make transit agencies buy vehicles from the same company only a few months prior.

Vehicle Production Group (VPG), a Michigan-based company that makes wheelchair-accessible vans, recently ceased operations (http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/05/08/vpg-auto-fisker-solyndra-tesla-doe-loan/2143201/) and closed its offices. The company, which had drawn attention (http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/09/21/new-american-car-company-debuts-vehicle-for-disabled/) for designing the first vehicle specifically (http://www.vpgautos.com/experience-mv-1/mobility-vehicle-features/) for people with disabilities, was awarded a $50 million conditional loan commitment (http://lpo.energy.gov/projects/the-vehicle-production-group-llc/) in 2010 to develop vans with natural gas engines as part of the Department of Energy's Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing (ATVM) program.

On Wednesday, Varney depicted the company as "the latest embarrassment for the [Obama administration's] green energy policy" on Fox & Friends:

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/05/08/fox-slams-natural-gas-cars-it-once-defended/193969

Fox's assholes really think everybody is a dumb and forgetful as the bubba choir they preach to.

[coyotes_geek]

The abridged version of the article: Fox anchor responds to failure of green energy automaker by labeling them a green energy failure. Mediamatters instructs boutons and other brain dead minions to be outraged.

lol mediamatters
lol boutons

[TeyshaBlue]

This calls for a Picard Facepalm.

[TeyshaBlue]

NB4 GFY

[boutons_deux]

Tesla Wows Again — 90-Second Battery Swap Unveiled (VIDEO)

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/06/21/tesla-wows-again-90-second-battery-swap-unveiled/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

Generic batteries permitting battery swapping among all EVs as well as charging has to be the future.

[boutons_deux]

Why Toyota and GM Are Pushing Fuel-Cell Cars to Market

Falling costs are making fuel-cell vehicles look like a plausible alternative to conventional cars.

Hydrogen-powered vehicles have been out of the spotlight for years, but they’re about to make a surprising comeback. Toyota says it will unveil a hydrogen fuel-cell-powered sedan later this year that will go on sale in 2015; several other automakers, meanwhile, have announced partnerships to commercialize the technology (see “Ford, Daimler, and Nissan Commit to Fuel Cells (http://www.technologyreview.com/view/510416/ford-daimler-and-nissan-commit-to-fuel-cells/)”), including GM and Honda, which announced such a collaboration this week.

While many challenges remain for hydrogen vehicles, in recent years researchers have made big improvements in the oft-maligned technology, including greatly lowering its cost. As a result, fuel-cell vehicles look poised to play a significant role in meeting ambitious vehicle emissions regulations, particularly in places such as California.

“GM, Toyota, and a couple of other automakers have done a lot of great work. Fuel cells are getting close to being viable, closer than most people might think,” says Brett Smith (http://www.cargroup.org/?module=Page&sID=brett-smith-bio), co-director for manufacturing, engineering, and technology at the Center for Automotive Research, a nonprofit in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

“Costs have come down at a pretty steady rate,” says Daniel Sperling (http://www.arb.ca.gov/board/bio/dsperling.htm), director of the Institute for Transportation Studies at the University of California at Davis and a member of California’s Air Resources Board, which oversees vehicle emissions regulations. “Most people in the auto industry think that, once in large-scale production, cost won’t be a barrier.”

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516711/why-toyota-and-gm-are-pushing-fuel-cell-cars-to-market/ (http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516711/why-toyota-and-gm-are-pushing-fuel-cell-cars-to-market/)

So govt policies spur, accelerate research and innovation that would not happen in a "free market". dubya fucked up, no surprise (and very probably with lobbying from BigAg), by switching support from fuel cell to the laughably disastrous biofuels.

[TDMVPDPOY]

they might be cheap alternative

but where can you go and refuel/re-energize them batteries at a station? not many stations dont want invest in shit that costs them

[boutons_deux]

they might be cheap alternative

but where can you go and refuel/re-energize them batteries at a station? not many stations dont want invest in shit that costs them

battery? :lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell

[Big Empty]

If a wind turbine spins and creates energy, i dont see why the same mechanism cant be done with spinning wheels of a car so that very little gas or electricity from a plug is needed

[AntiChrist]

If a wind turbine spins and creates energy, i dont see why the same mechanism cant be done with spinning wheels of a car so that very little gas or electricity from a plug is needed


Uh, not sure if serious.

[TeyshaBlue]

Uh, not sure if serious.

From the article.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/427360/hydrogen-storage-could-be-key-to-germanys-energy-plans/

[boutons_deux]

will it scale?

MIT create an artificial leaf that can split water, power fuel cells (http://www.geek.com/geek-pick/mit-create-an-artificial-leaf-that-can-split-water-power-fuel-cells-1425635/)


Aresearch team at MIT has managed to create a self-contained artificial leaf that can split water into oxygen and hydrogen (http://www.geek.com/articles/tagged/hydrogen/)using solar power (http://www.geek.com/articles/tagged/solar-power).

The artificial leaf can be seen to work just by dropping it into a glass of water and placing it in direct sunlight. The solar cells the leaf contains go to work generating energy, which is then used to release the oxygen and hydrogen from the water surrounding it.

The leaf is created from earth-abundant materials and is very cheap to manufacture. At its core is a sheet of solar cells made from silicon. This is what generates the required electrical energy for the process to happen. On one side of the leaf the outer layer is coated in a cobalt catalyst that releases the oxygen from the water. On the other side of the leaf is a nickel-molybdenum-zinc alloy that takes care of releasing the hydrogen.

Now that the leaf has been developed and proven to work, two challenges remain. The first is to come up with a solution for collecting the hydrogen produced. The gas can then be used to power a fuel cell (http://www.geek.com/articles/tagged/fuel-cell), but just as importantly, it does so after being collected in a completely green way, using only the sun and water as part of the production process.

The second challenge is to improve the efficiency of the artificial leaf, which currently only manages to use 2.5% of the solar energy collected for hydrogen production.

http://www.geek.com/geek-pick/mit-create-an-artificial-leaf-that-can-split-water-power-fuel-cells-1425635/

[Wild Cobra]

Why Toyota and GM Are Pushing Fuel-Cell Cars to Market

Falling costs are making fuel-cell vehicles look like a plausible alternative to conventional cars.

Hydrogen-powered vehicles have been out of the spotlight for years, but they’re about to make a surprising comeback. Toyota says it will unveil a hydrogen fuel-cell-powered sedan later this year that will go on sale in 2015; several other automakers, meanwhile, have announced partnerships to commercialize the technology (see “Ford, Daimler, and Nissan Commit to Fuel Cells (http://www.technologyreview.com/view/510416/ford-daimler-and-nissan-commit-to-fuel-cells/)”), including GM and Honda, which announced such a collaboration this week.

While many challenges remain for hydrogen vehicles, in recent years researchers have made big improvements in the oft-maligned technology, including greatly lowering its cost. As a result, fuel-cell vehicles look poised to play a significant role in meeting ambitious vehicle emissions regulations, particularly in places such as California.

“GM, Toyota, and a couple of other automakers have done a lot of great work. Fuel cells are getting close to being viable, closer than most people might think,” says Brett Smith (http://www.cargroup.org/?module=Page&sID=brett-smith-bio), co-director for manufacturing, engineering, and technology at the Center for Automotive Research, a nonprofit in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

“Costs have come down at a pretty steady rate,” says Daniel Sperling (http://www.arb.ca.gov/board/bio/dsperling.htm), director of the Institute for Transportation Studies at the University of California at Davis and a member of California’s Air Resources Board, which oversees vehicle emissions regulations. “Most people in the auto industry think that, once in large-scale production, cost won’t be a barrier.”

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516711/why-toyota-and-gm-are-pushing-fuel-cell-cars-to-market/ (http://www.technologyreview.com/news/516711/why-toyota-and-gm-are-pushing-fuel-cell-cars-to-market/)

So govt policies spur, accelerate research and innovation that would not happen in a "free market". dubya fucked up, no surprise (and very probably with lobbying from BigAg), by switching support from fuel cell to the laughably disastrous biofuels.
Cool.

Who here is going to own the first fuel cell Pinto?

[Wild Cobra]

Uh, not sure if serious.
I hate to say this, but I think he is...

[boutons_deux]

how about super nano-graphene capacitors for electrical storage rather than batteries?


Graphene Micro-Supercapacitors for On-Chip Energy


http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Graphene_Micro-Supercapacitors_for_On-Chip_Energy_Store.php

[Wild Cobra]

how about super nano-graphene capacitors for electrical storage rather than batteries?


Graphene Micro-Supercapacitors for On-Chip Energy


http://www.i-sis.org.uk/Graphene_Micro-Supercapacitors_for_On-Chip_Energy_Store.php


Sure... until you short circuit them, and have this massive arc-flash.

Exploding Pinto anyone? i would have a difficult time trusting such instantaneous power in a vibrating, moving object, subject to collisions with other vehicles.

With a power density of 200 W cm-3, that's based on single layers of a material that my be hard to layer and cool for large storage purposes. It otherwise looks pretty promising.

[RandomGuy]

If a wind turbine spins and creates energy, i dont see why the same mechanism cant be done with spinning wheels of a car so that very little gas or electricity from a plug is needed

Because that would violate the immutable laws of thermodynamics?

Efficiency losses due to mechanical friction and heat would mean that any wind power mounted on the car would return you less energy than it took to overcome the friction.

Hybrids do use the braking system to generate power already. (spinning magnets in a coil = electricity). You can't run wind through wheels and get energy out of them.

[RandomGuy]

Cool.

Who here is going to own the first fuel cell Pinto?

Meh. no more dangerous than having a vehicle powered by highly flammible volatiles.

Sign me up, if the cost comes down.

[RandomGuy]

they might be cheap alternative

but where can you go and refuel/re-energize them batteries at a station? not many stations dont want invest in shit that costs them

You might be able to get utility companies to install the charging stations for fast charging for the right price. Probably cost a premium though.

Alternately, if you could charge the car overnight, it would flatten out usage, since power demand dips a lot at night.

Currently our power grid probably couldn't handle supplying all the raw energy needed for the physical work of movign people and vehicles in the US.

Upgrade the grid and increased demand for electricity would make renewable energy and nuclear a lot more feasible. But then, you can say the same about coal. The Koch brothers should be all over this shit.

[RandomGuy]

From the article.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/427360/hydrogen-storage-could-be-key-to-germanys-energy-plans/


Siemens says its electrolyzers are about 60 percent efficient; 40 percent of the energy generated by a wind turbine would be lost making hydrogen gas. Then at least 40 percent of the energy in the hydrogen would be lost in generating electricity in gas-fired power plants or fuel cells. So only about a third of the original energy would be retained. But Weinhold says the system would make hydrogen from electricity that couldn’t otherwise be used on the grid and therefore would be wasted without such a storage system.

In addition to being inefficient, the system could be expensive. The high cost of fuel cells is a key reason they haven’t been used widely in cars. But Weinhold says Siemens is working to bring down costs. Siemens is conducting pilot demonstrations of the technology this year, and it plans to sell two-megawatt systems by 2015 and to build systems as large as 250 megawatts by 2018. The largest plants could harness the power produced by about 100 wind turbines.

Going to be a lot of disruptive technologies coming online in the next 10 years.

Once the infrastructure is in place, renewables become less expensive than the fossil fuels they replace.

Germans are going to pay through the nose, but be well insulated from the energy inflation the world will experience as Asian and African standards of living get to the point where they start consuming more energy, which they are both really beginning to do now.

[Wild Cobra]

Meh. no more dangerous than having a vehicle powered by highly flammible volatiles.

Sign me up, if the cost comes down.
Well, I disagree. I will contend that hydrogen explosions are more dangerous than gasoline fires.

[Wild Cobra]

Germans are going to pay through the nose, but be well insulated from the energy inflation the world will experience as Asian and African standards of living get to the point where they start consuming more energy, which they are both really beginning to do now.
This is a distinct possibility, but I still wouldn't bank on it.

[RandomGuy]

Well, I disagree. I will contend that hydrogen explosions are more dangerous than gasoline fires.

I don't think you are anywhere near qualified to be able to make that claim if you are trying to say the specific technology in question is more dangerous than gas engines now.

To meet the level of proof for that, you would have to have crash data for gas powered vehicles, as well as specific extensive crash data for the kinds of technologies being proposed.

You might be able to find the former, but I know you don't have the latter.

You will, however, blather on about chemical energy, as if that means fuckall though. Sure, hydrogen, per weight, has more chemical energy, if I recall correctly.

So fucking what?

Do you have any crash data about the tech these people are talking about?

[RandomGuy]

This is a distinct possibility, but I still wouldn't bank on it.

If your energy mix includes proportionately less fuel whose price is increasing, you will spend less overall.

Hand-wavy dismissals are not something I would ever bank on, either.

[TeyshaBlue]

:lol


Do you have any crash data about the tech these people are talking about?

http://www.baminvestor.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Hindenburg.jpg

[pgardn]

If you say so.
The loan is repayed.

Thats a failure?

And to the poster above, you altered my avatar...

[Wild Cobra]

I can plug it in at my house and now the energy to run my car can come from coal instead of gasoline!
OK, now is three years later...

You have solar panels...

Any change in thoughts?

[CosmicCowboy]

OK, now is three years later...

You have solar panels...

Any change in thoughts?

Not really. There are only about 1000 residential solar PV systems installed in SA and besides, my house already uses all the energy it produces.

[RandomGuy]

Not really. There are only about 1000 residential solar PV systems installed in SA and besides, my house already uses all the energy it produces.

So you got it installed about three years ago, do you think it has been worth it?

From everything I have been able to tell, as an investment the returns tend to be pretty good, since they are tied to electricity price inflation.

[boutons_deux]

texas lags way behind in distributed solar, typical for such a retrograde Repug red state

California solar installations jumped 26% in 2012California had a banner year in solar installations in 2012, bringing the state 391 megawatts closer to its goal to install 3,000 megawatts by 2017.

According to a California Solar Initiative progress report by the Public Utilities Commission, those additions represent a 26% growth from 2011. The state is now equipped to produce 1,629 megawatts of solar energy across completed projects at nearly 168,000 sites -- enough to power 150,000 homes.

Evan Gillespie, a deputy director with the Sierra Club’s Beyond Coal Campaign, said the progress was significant. “We had our largest year ever for rooftop solar with nearly 400 megawatts. That’s more than most states have to date,” he said. “That in itself is critical.”

The initiative is a rebate program for the state’s investor-owned utilities -- Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas and Electric -- with the broad goal of making solar a self-sustaining market in California. It’s the largest program of its kind in the U.S., with a budget of nearly $2.4 billion, according to the report.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/5/article/p2p-76635228/

There's huge battle between utilities with their centralized power generation business model against Human-Americans wanting distributed solar.

[Th'Pusher]

Sorry about the Think Progress source, but I find it amusing the Koch brother are now at odds with the baggers over solar.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/07/09/2267051/koch-brothers-fund-effort-to-undermine-tea-party-support-of-solar-energy-in-georgia/?mobile=wp

[Wild Cobra]

Doesn't sound like a real Tea Party organization to me, but one of the several stealing the name concept.

They want mandates and price controls on the solar energy.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Doesn't sound like a real Tea Party organization to me, but one of the several stealing the name concept.

They want mandates and price controls on the solar energy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

[CosmicCowboy]

So you got it installed about three years ago, do you think it has been worth it?

From everything I have been able to tell, as an investment the returns tend to be pretty good, since they are tied to electricity price inflation.

I just put it on line in January.

I was out of pocket a little less than 10 grand and it saves me about $90 a month at current rates. It will pay for itself in 9 years and continue to produce energy for 25. Assuming no major equipment failures it's a good deal IMHO.

[TeyshaBlue]

texas lags way behind in distributed solar, typical for such a retrograde Repug red state that leads the nation in wind generated power

fify, idiot.

[boutons_deux]

fify, idiot.

the future is DISTRIBUTED solar in competition with centralized power generation, IDIOT stalker.

[TeyshaBlue]

Don't confuse mocking with stalking, moron.
I really don't think about you very often.:lmao

lol retrograde.

[Th'Pusher]

Doesn't sound like a real Tea Party organization to me, but one of the several stealing the name concept.

They want mandates and price controls on the solar energy.

Don't be ridiculous. Just looking at her you can tell she's a bagger.

[Th'Pusher]

http://ibdp.huluim.com/video/60239148?size=512x288

[Th'Pusher]

^^ That's a T-bag if I've ever seen one.

[TeyshaBlue]

Parts of me completely disappeared.:depressed

[Wild Cobra]

I just put it on line in January.

I was out of pocket a little less than 10 grand and it saves me about $90 a month at current rates. It will pay for itself in 9 years and continue to produce energy for 25. Assuming no major equipment failures it's a good deal IMHO.

If you're interested in more green energy, consider one of these:

mpUPlHx_2gw

[boutons_deux]

I was thinking about a small wind turbine, but after lots of resarch, I don't have enough wind

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Wind/WindResource.htm

http://www.windspireenergy.com/news/9-things-to-know-about-small-wind-power/

One of the big scams is these vertical turbines that are sold as starting "turning even at low wind speeds", but there's no significant wind energy at low speeds. Fine for trickle charging a starter battery or running lights on a yacht, but insufficient for residential.

So I'm sticking 4.5 Kw of solar panels, which should give about 3.7 Kw after inversion in peak hours.

[Drachen]

Boutons is a red state bubba vrwc mic abc easy 123 felatio fellater since he is copying what CosmicCowboy is doing

[RandomGuy]

I just put it on line in January.

I was out of pocket a little less than 10 grand and it saves me about $90 a month at current rates. It will pay for itself in 9 years and continue to produce energy for 25. Assuming no major equipment failures it's a good deal IMHO.

The converter will probably need to be replaced in about 15 years, the panels themselves will crank out appreciable amounts of power for 50 or more, albeit at a slowly declining rate.

--based on everythign I have researched, and I do care about all the system costs.

[RandomGuy]

I just put it on line in January.

I was out of pocket a little less than 10 grand and it saves me about $90 a month at current rates. It will pay for itself in 9 years and continue to produce energy for 25. Assuming no major equipment failures it's a good deal IMHO.

My gut says electricity costs in Texas will go up a tad faster than overall inflation. I would guess that will shorten your payback time by a few months.

The rolling brownouts and droughts will force companies to expand capacity, and that ain't cheap. At least all the wind power they are building doesn't use water.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://ibdp.huluim.com/video/60239148?size=512x288

Is that James Carville in drag?

[Drachen]

I think I'd bang james carville before that.

[Drachen]

looks more like patrick swayze in drag...

not this
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_UIVdImZTmgA/Sq8T-g0OO_I/AAAAAAAADOM/1iGXUt1shaw/s400/Patrick+()+-+To+Wong+Fu+Thanks+For+Everything+Julie+Newmar.jpg

I mean patrick swayze TODAY in drag.

[boutons_deux]

The converter will probably need to be replaced in about 15 years, the panels themselves will crank out appreciable amounts of power for 50 or more, albeit at a slowly declining rate.

--based on everythign I have researched, and I do care about all the system costs.

many systems don't use a single INVERTER (not converter) because the weakest output panel brings the entire array down, but an inverter per panel.

Enphase's warranty:

The Enphase limited warranty (“Limited Warranty”) covers defects in workmanship and materials of the Enphase Microinverter (“Defective Product”) for a period of twenty-five (25) years

http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/07/M215_Warranty.pdf

The upcoming M250 (for 300W panels) will probably be better.

So it sounds like inverters last about as long as the panels.

[Wild Cobra]

The converter will probably need to be replaced in about 15 years, the panels themselves will crank out appreciable amounts of power for 50 or more, albeit at a slowly declining rate.

--based on everythign I have researched, and I do care about all the system costs.

The only failing components in the inverter that I'm aware of should be the capacitors, and that's if they are under a lot of energy stress. Just do a time change out every 10 years of them. Such electronics should otherwise last forever. What do you know that I don't?

As for panels, like I mentioned, pay someone with a thermal imaging camera now, and in a few more years. My understanding is solar cells also last a lot longer than previously thought to.

http://www.flir.com/uploadedImages/CS_EMEA/Application_Stories/Electrical-Mechanical/Images/Red_Spots.png (http://www.flir.com/cs/apac/en/view/?id=41872)

[RandomGuy]

many systems don't use a single INVERTER (not converter) because the weakest output panel brings the entire array down, but an inverter per panel.

Enphase's warranty:

The Enphase limited warranty (“Limited Warranty”) covers defects in workmanship and materials of the Enphase Microinverter (“Defective Product”) for a period of twenty-five (25) years

http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/07/M215_Warranty.pdf

The upcoming M250 (for 300W panels) will probably be better.

So it sounds like inverters last about as long as the panels.

Inverter, sorry. I was going from memory of something I read, rather than having it right in front of me at the time.

If someone is offering a 25year warranty, that would strongly imply that my data is a bit dated then. If you amortize THAT cost over 25 years, that would increase the rate of return for the system, markedly.

[RandomGuy]

The only failing components in the inverter that I'm aware of should be the capacitors, and that's if they are under a lot of energy stress. Just do a time change out every 10 years of them. Such electronics should otherwise last forever. What do you know that I don't?

As for panels, like I mentioned, pay someone with a thermal imaging camera now, and in a few more years. My understanding is solar cells also last a lot longer than previously thought to.

http://www.flir.com/uploadedImages/CS_EMEA/Application_Stories/Electrical-Mechanical/Images/Red_Spots.png (http://www.flir.com/cs/apac/en/view/?id=41872)

I would guess you probably know more about the mechnanics of such things that I do. Happily acceeded.

I would also agree that from what I have been able to read up on, the life span is a lot longer than many assume.

Between longer inverter life, and longer panel life, I think CC may have gotten a better deal than even he thinks. :)

[boutons_deux]

CC "consuming all he generates" could mean he doesn't run the meter backwards with excess generation, so gets no CPS credit to use during no-sun-hours

[Wild Cobra]

Between longer inverter life, and longer panel life, I think CC may have gotten a better deal than even he thinks. :)

I completely agree. I just hope he had someone use an IR camera to spot installation defective cells, and does so again before his warrant expires.

[boutons_deux]

Inverter, sorry. I was going from memory of something I read, rather than having it right in front of me at the time.

If someone is offering a 25year warranty, that would strongly imply that my data is a bit dated then. If you amortize THAT cost over 25 years, that would increase the rate of return for the system, markedly.

Climate denying whores love to say wind + solar energy uses dirty coal/nuclear electricity in manufacturing, but the comeback is that wind + solar rapidly payback that electricity cleanly, and do so for decades.

[Wild Cobra]

Climate denying whores love to say wind + solar energy uses dirty coal/nuclear electricity in manufacturing, but the comeback is that wind + solar rapidly payback that electricity cleanly, and do so for decades.
You need to learn how to separate the arguments.

[CosmicCowboy]

CC "consuming all he generates" could mean he doesn't run the meter backwards with excess generation, so gets no CPS credit to use during no-sun-hours

I run it big time backwards in the cooler months. Keeping Ms. CC cool in the summer, however pretty much uses everything it produces and then some.

[Wild Cobra]

I run it big time backwards in the cooler months. Keeping Ms. CC cool in the summer, however pretty much uses everything it produces and then some.

I'm glad it doesn't get so hot where I live. My last bill is $93.62 for 857 kwh. In the winter, my highest was $112.62. Not bad compared to many people in other places.

[boutons_deux]

Electric car ‘Silver Streak’ has 400-mile range on a single charge

EV2

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/19/electric-car-silver-streak-has-400-mile-range-on-a-single-charge/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[boutons_deux]

While waiting for the big breakthrough in battery, or other, technology ...

Efficiency, Imported From Europe

The makers of plug-in hybrids and E.V.’s have reaped billions of dollars in federal loans and energy grants. Buyers of the electrically enabled vehicles have also been given bountiful perks, from tax credits and the privilege of high-occupancy vehicle lanes to home charging units underwritten by taxpayers.

Yet vehicles that were once the antithesis of eco-friendly are making far deeper inroads with mainstream consumers: fuel-sipping, ultralong-range diesel cars.

Attracted by newly quiet and clean-running engines that deliver some 15 to 30 percent better mileage than their gasoline counterparts, Americans flocked to diesels in 2012. Sales of diesel passenger cars and S.U.V.’s jumped by nearly 26 percent from 2011. That’s despite the stubbornly high price of diesel fuel that, at $3.87 a gallon on average, is 23 cents more than regular gas (but a penny less than premium grade).

“Diesel is far less expensive than plug-ins and E.V.’s, with better range and performance. This technology is available today.”

the new Chevrolet Cruze Diesel, carrying a 46-m.p.g. federal highway rating, is officially the highest-mileage nonhybrid sold in America.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/automobiles/efficiency-imported-from-europe.html?from=homepage

[boutons_deux]

Ford Announces Free Enhancements and Increased Electrified Car Growth
http://carnewscafe.com/2013/07/ford-announces-free-enhancement-and-increased-electrified-car-growth/

[Sportcamper]

Chevy drops price of the Volt 5k for 2014

GM and other electric car makers are slashing prices to move more vehicles off dealer lots as gas prices stabilize and more efficient gasoline engines increase competition from conventional vehicles.

http://www.designntrend.com/articles/6903/20130806/volt-2014-price-drop-chevy-slashes-5k.htm

[Wild Cobra]

Chevy drops price of the Volt 5k for 2014

GM and other electric car makers are slashing prices to move more vehicles off dealer lots as gas prices stabilize and more efficient gasoline engines increase competition from conventional vehicles.

http://www.designntrend.com/articles/6903/20130806/volt-2014-price-drop-chevy-slashes-5k.htm

Yep.

For half the price, you can get a 40 MPG Ford Fusion.

[TeyshaBlue]

Um, a $17.5k Fusion?

Not so much.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2013/ford/fusion/pricing/

[TeyshaBlue]

Chevy drops price of the Volt 5k for 2014

GM and other electric car makers are slashing prices to move more vehicles off dealer lots as gas prices stabilize and more efficient gasoline engines increase competition from conventional vehicles.

http://www.designntrend.com/articles/6903/20130806/volt-2014-price-drop-chevy-slashes-5k.htm

This is what happens as the production line matures and methodology is refined. Costs will continue to drop as economies of scale are finally applied and sales figures increase.

[Wild Cobra]

Um, a $17.5k Fusion?

Not so much.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2013/ford/fusion/pricing/
I saw it, but didn't save the link. I'll bet that's the reduced 2013 price to make room for the 2014's. It was $16,xxx.

Now their hybrid for $27k... Better than the Volt now, isn't it...

[CosmicCowboy]

This is what happens as the production line matures and methodology is refined. Costs will continue to drop as economies of scale are finally applied and sales figures increase.

This isn't production efficiency. It is desperation. They had a five month supply of 2012 and 2013 volts sitting on dealers lots and they are ready to start production on 2014's. With so much of their reputation riding on the success of the Volt they will continue to dump them at a loss if they have to.

[TeyshaBlue]

This isn't production efficiency. It is desperation. They had a five month supply of 2012 and 2013 volts sitting on dealers lots and they are ready to start production on 2014's. With so much of their reputation riding on the success of the Volt they will continue to dump them at a loss if they have to.

“The lower price and cost savings from driving on electricity provide Volt owners an unmatched balance of technology, capability and cost of ownership,” said Don Johnson, U.S. vice president, Chevrolet sales and service. “We have made great strides in reducing costs as we gain experience with electric vehicles and their components.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130806/AUTO0103/308060026#ixzz2bDmKaJVg

[TeyshaBlue]

According to The Detriot News, Chevrolet spokeswoman Michelle Malcho said that GM has a 140-day supply of Chevy Volts, which is double the amount that many analysts say is “healthy,” and even then, 70 days worth of inventory is still on the high side to some car dealerships. Obviously, this isn’t a good sign for the Volt.

http://www.slashgear.com/chevy-volt-sales-stall-leaves-inventory-double-healthy-levels-11286012/



So it's a bit of both.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.plugincars.com/gm-offers-deals-chevy-volt-reduce-bloated-inventory-127474.html


Loss-making, but not by much

In reality, Lutz says that the Volt is nearer to variable break-even, or maybe even on the cusp of positive gross profit margin.

That still doesn't cover other fixed costs, depreciation and amortization, so as GM's Doug Parks pointed out yesterday, the Volt is still making a loss--but it's a much, much smaller loss than some industry analysts have predicted.

[Wild Cobra]

TB...

Does GM pay you to do their commercials?

Do you really trust what GM officials say?

Care to buy some Wild Cobra Snake Oil?

[TeyshaBlue]

WC....I read on the automontive industry constantly. I subscribe to 6 trade mags. I'm a huge car enthusiast and I've learned to read between the lines. Also, 2 old friends of mine were very high up in Ford and GM. I trust their outlook and perspective, and I ass whip them to death everytime I see them.:lol

Feel free to point out anything I've brought up in error. But since you can't, I'll just leave you to those 17k 40mpg Fusions.:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

WC....I read on the automontive industry constantly. I subscribe to 6 trade mags. I'm a huge car enthusiast and I've learned to read between the lines. Also, 2 old friends of mine were very high up in Ford and GM. I trust their outlook and perspective, and I ass whip them to death everytime I see them.:lol

Feel free to point out anything I've brought up in error. But since you can't, I'll just leave you to those 17k 40mpg Fusions.:lmao
Good for you.

I'll still sell you some Wild Cobra Snake Oil if you like!

[Wild Cobra]

Feel free to point out anything I've brought up in error. But since you can't, I'll just leave you to those 17k 40mpg Fusions.:lmao
The link I saw may have been incorrect, and now I can't find it. It was just a couple days ago. Many things on the internet are incorrect. I did see it though. Other searches tend to show the base model can be found for that little, but only their hybrid get 40 MPG.

[boutons_deux]

General Motors (GM (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=GM)) has plenty of good reasons for its decision today to slash $5,000 (http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2013/Aug/0806-volt-pricing.html) off the sticker price of its hybrid Chevrolet Volt, a model that analysts say already sells for a loss.

The company needs the model to stay competitive (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-06/gm-cuts-chevy-volt-price-by-5-000-to-spur-sales.html) with the Nissan (NSANY (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=NSANY)) Leaf and Toyota (TM (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=TM)) Prius. It has found some ways to build Volts more cheaply in roughly four years of production. It wants to help save the world.

But one reason trumps those all: Chevy is slashing Volt prices because it has been selling a ton of pickups (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-02/overhauled-chevys-close-the-pickup-gap-with-ford) and wants to keep doing so. That probably makes no sense to most car buyers, but the seemingly separate models are linked in the minds of federal regulators and, correspondingly, GM executives.

Through a complicated formula that accounts for various models, weights, and the size or “footprint” of each car, the U.S. government derives a single mileage number for each carmaker—dubbed the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (http://www.nhtsa.gov/fuel-economy)—CAFE for acronym lovers.

The current standard falls around 26 miles per gallon for a combined fleet of cars and light trucks. Under this complex regulatory net, a company that is selling too many gas guzzlers and not enough fuel-sipping compacts faces steep fines. Meanwhile, carmakers that beat their number can book credits to sell or use later. Not only do hybrid cars like the Volt score great mileage points in the federal system, but also in a few years each one will count as two vehicles thanks to a generous loophole in the latest rules.

To date, the penalties have fallen inordinately on foreign carmakers that haven’t been too worried about pushing small, efficient models to U.S. buyers. Uncle Sam just collected a handsome $16.3 million check from Mercedes (DAI:GR (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/snapshot/snapshot.asp?ticker=DAI:GR)), because the company was so focused on über-sedans it blew right by its mileage limit.

But CAFE standards will step up steeply (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-cafe-numbers-game-making-sense-of-the-new-fuel-economy-regulations-feature) in the next few years and almost double by 2025. With truck sales at full throttle, GM and other U.S. carmakers need to sell hybrid vehicles to keep their handsome truck profits from getting dinged by penalties. In the first seven months of this year, GM sold almost 389,000 trucks and only 11,643 Volts.

“If there was no CAFE, GM wouldn’t even be in the small-car game,” says Bloomberg Industries analyst Kevin Tynan. “They would be selling trucks all day.”

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-07/why-cheaper-volts-help-gm-sell-pickups#r=rss

[TeyshaBlue]

Good for you.

I'll still sell you some Wild Cobra Snake Oil if you like!

I've got to cut down some old trees along my fence line. Will WCSNO make a good bar oil for my chainsaw?:lol

[Drachen]

Good for you.

I'll still sell you some Wild Cobra Snake Oil if you like!

*made from real corporation sperms. He harvests it himself.

[TeyshaBlue]

*bulk erases brain*

[RandomGuy]

I run it big time backwards in the cooler months. Keeping Ms. CC cool in the summer, however pretty much uses everything it produces and then some.

Given the rolling black outs we have been experiencing in central Texas when it gets hot, the solar installation that provides power even then looks better and better.

That is one of the key features of solar PV, it makes more electricity when it is needed most.

[boutons_deux]

CPS Energy asking for rate increase

4.75 percent increase would be first since 2010

customers using 1,500 kilowatt hours of electricity a month would see their bill increase from $136.79 to $142.03, still lower than every other large city in Texas.

Wednesday's presentation suggested increases of 5.25 percent in 2016 and 4.5 percent in 2018 but both of those would have to go before the city council for approval.

http://www.ksat.com/news/cps-energy-asking-for-rate-increase/-/478452/21267620/-/153urhqz/-/index.html

City Council should push CPS to promote distributed solar by committing permanently to attractive feed in tariff and time-of-day metering. All the centralized utility arguments against distributed generation are bullshit.

[CosmicCowboy]

Given the rolling black outs we have been experiencing in central Texas when it gets hot, the solar installation that provides power even then looks better and better.

That is one of the key features of solar PV, it makes more electricity when it is needed most.

Actually it is designed so that if the power to the house goes down the solar inverter shuts down. They wouldn't want my system back feeding to the grid and potentially frying a guy repairing the CPS line.

[boutons_deux]

Strong Sales, Market Traction, Lower Battery Costs Highlight New EV Report

Plug in Electric Vehicle (PEVs) in their first 2 ½ years on the market have seen about double the sales of hybrid electric vehicles (http://greenlivingideas.com/2013/07/15/toyota-prius-rises-above-3-million-sales/) 2 ½ years after they made their debut in 2000, according to a new report.

An Electrification Coalition and Price Waterhouse Coopers study, “State of the Plug-in Electric Vehicle,” (http://electrificationcoalition.org/StateEVMarket) finds that PEVs — including Tesla’s Model S, GM Chevy Volt, and the Nissan Leaf — have dominated EV sales. More than 110,000 plug-in vehicles have been sold since January 2011. EV sales in 2013 alone (http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/25/electric-car-sales-increase-100-2013/) have increased 100% in the first half of 2013, compared to the first six months a year earlier.

the price of EV batteries is expected to decline by nearly 50% by the end of this decade, with an industry cost between $300–$325 per kilowatt-hour. Between 2010 and 2012, EV battery costs alone dropped by 40%. (http://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/08/40-drop-in-ev-battery-prices-from-2010-to-2012/)


http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/14/strong-sales-market-traction-lower-battery-costs-highlight-new-ev-report/

[AntiChrist]

Given the rolling black outs we have been experiencing in central Texas when it gets hot, the solar installation that provides power even then looks better and better.

That is one of the key features of solar PV, it makes more electricity when it is needed most.


I haven't experienced any of these rolling black outs.

[boutons_deux]

I haven't experienced any of these rolling black outs.

Then, there aren't, haven't been any black outs, right?

[AntiChrist]

Then, there aren't, haven't been any black outs, right?

The only ones I've experienced have been when lightning strikes a transformer or something.

[boutons_deux]

Southern California Edison Offers Insight Into Impact Of Electric Vehicles On Grid

There were six major discoveries from the report (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20130806005560/en/Southern-California-Edison-Offers-Insights-Electric-Vehicle):

Our approach to managing PEV-grid impact is meeting our customers’ needs: Since 2010, of all the nearly 400 upgrades we made to (or identified for) circuits that serve PEV customers, only 1 percent of that work was required due to additional power demands from PEVs. The rest of the work was required under our regular infrastructure upgrade and maintenance schedule.

Using the “end charge” time programing feature is good for EV customers and their neighbors: It’s better for grid reliability and neighborhood circuits when drivers program their charging to be complete by a specific time. When customers set an “end charge” time for charging to be complete, they randomize the start time of their charging, which prevents a large number of vehicles from coming online at the same time — avoiding power-load spikes that potentially could affect the local distribution system.

What SCE customers want to know most about EVs: When 15,000 SCE customers visit our EV website monthly, about 46 percent make their first stop with the Plug-In Car Rate Assistant Tool (https://www.sce.com/nrc/pev/index.html), which helps estimate charging costs. Customers also click to find out more about public charging station locations (http://www.afdc.energy.gov/locator/stations/results?location=&fuel=ELEC&private=&planned=&owner=all&payment=all&radius=&radius_miles=) from our link to the U.S. Department of Energy’s map, watch videos (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL266B8DFA7A0A3E86) on EVs and read background materials on environmental benefits (https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/electric-cars/just-the-facts/) and home electric infrastructure requirements (https://www.sce.com/wps/portal/home/residential/electric-cars/charging-installation/).

Initial findings show early adopters of battery-electric vehicle (BEV) technology demonstrate consistent and predictable behavior: A sample of Nissan Leaf owners have indicated that any “range anxiety” had been eliminated after driving their new BEV over time. Most reported their overnight charging at 240 volts was sufficient to support their daily driving patterns.

Multi-unit residents may face complex challenges: Despite high interest in EVs from condominium and apartment dwellers, fewer than 5 percent of building owners or condominium associations are even considering installing the necessary charging infrastructure. There are multiple rebates and incentives in the works to improve the situation.

SCE and the cities we serve are charged up and ready to go: Virtually all of the 180 cities in SCE’s service territory are committed to helping their residents plug in by streamlining permitting and inspection processes.

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/13/southern-california-edison-offers-insight-into-impact-of-electric-vehicles-on-grid/

[TeyshaBlue]

Then, there aren't, haven't been any black outs, right?

There was a blackout in my part of town last night. But, the cops made him get back in his car and leave.


*rimshot*

[clambake]

There was a blackout in my part of town last night. But, the cops made him get back in his car and leave.


*rimshot*
his car? yeah, right.

[boutons_deux]

US Electric Car Sales Have Increased 361% In 2013 So Far

http://i1.wp.com/evobsession.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/October-hybrid-sales-electric-car-sales1.png?zoom=1.5&resize=550%2C675

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/06/us-electric-car-sales-increased-361-2013-far/

[RandomGuy]

Actually it is designed so that if the power to the house goes down the solar inverter shuts down. They wouldn't want my system back feeding to the grid and potentially frying a guy repairing the CPS line.

Ah, there you go.

You going to install any battery back ups?

I have been looking into physical energy storage systems, like simple large water tanks. Build one at a higher elevation that is pumped by some % of energy produced, then a mostly empty one at a lower elevation and have a mechanism that generates hydropower from the water moving from one to the other.

This would have the benefit of storing water as well.

[RandomGuy]

I haven't experienced any of these rolling black outs.

They have had them in the central texas corridor.

[boutons_deux]

Sugar Battery With Unmatched Energy Density Created

http://cleantechnica.com/2014/01/22/sugar-battery-unmatched-energy-density-created/#uKr1zItlGPRGlb58.99

[Wild Cobra]

Sugar Battery With Unmatched Energy Density Created

http://cleantechnica.com/2014/01/22/sugar-battery-unmatched-energy-density-created/#uKr1zItlGPRGlb58.99
It didn't give a complete byproduct list. I wonder what it is.

[boutons_deux]

It didn't give a complete byproduct list. I wonder what it is.

I'm sure you can find, or imagine, a horrible weakness, a huge negative. Do Your Own Research (c)

[CosmicCowboy]

Hopefully it gets to market. If it does Virginia Tech is gonna make boocoo money off of the patent rights.

[Wild Cobra]

Hopefully it gets to market. If it does Virginia Tech is gonna make boocoo money off of the patent rights.
It would be nice to skip the process of making sugar into ethanol.

[boutons_deux]

I wonder how they intend to make the enzyme soup in industrial quantities

[Wild Cobra]

I wonder how they intend to make the enzyme soup in industrial quantities

Hard to say, but it is a valid point. I recall another attempt at cheap energy, and they proved the method, but couldn't get the "soup" they needed quick enough for large scale.

[boutons_deux]

btw, speaking of sugar, Americans are relentlessly up to an average 130 pounds of sugar consumption per year.

Thanks, BigFood! American love the dead, pathogenic, engineered, food-like substances you put in their feed troughs.

[boutons_deux]

Many car dealers don't want to sell electric cars: Here's why

The stories abound: A car buyer walks into a dealership, educated about the electric car she wants to buy...and the salesperson tries to convince her she doesn't want that car after all.

She really wants a gasoline car, he argues.

Hundreds of cases have been reported of customers walking into a Nissan or Chevy dealer to buy a Leaf or Volt, then being aggressively steered toward a Sentra or Cruze.

Doom, danger, dire predictions

A buyer will run out of charge and be left stranded at the side of the road, he hears, or that very expensive battery will have to be replaced in five years.

Then the electric demo car hasn't been recharged, so its electric range is minimal on the test drive. And so forth.

A recent discussion in a Facebook group prompted us to write, once more, about how car dealers work--and what motivates them to sell specific vehicles.

The salient point is that it takes much longer to sell a plug-in electric car, today, than it does a gasoline or diesel vehicle.

Maximizing profit

And dealers maximize their profits by exploiting the difference in information about complex financial transactions between buyers who do it once every five or six years, on average, and salespeople who sell multiple cars a day.

As we wrote two months ago in another article on dealers:

Every salesperson's mission is to close the deal, today, at maximum profit with minimum time invested. Selling a plug-in car takes three to five times as long for a dealer as does selling a gasoline car.

It requires explanation, education, training, all of the fuss and bother associated with installing a charging station in the garage if the buyer wants one, and so on.

And, today's electric-car shoppers often know as much or more about their desired plug-in model as the salesperson does. To get their questions answered, several other people may have to be brought into the process. And that takes time.

Time, complexity

To make plug-ins equally attractive for dealership salespeople to sell, they would have to be three to five times as profitable per vehicle to sell -- to offset the extra time required.

They're not.

Add to that customers with complex questions about things like off-peak charging and the need to coordinate inspection and installation of a charging station.

Those and other issues -- none of which apply to gasoline cars -- provide the very obvious reasons why most salespeople will default to the easier sell: a gasoline car.

All salespeople are motivated by compensation. But as far as we know, not a single automaker has structured that compensation to make it equally worthwhile to sell plug-in cars.

The few dealerships that move high volumes of electric cars -- we know of at least two in California -- have single-purpose salespeople who specialize in nothing but plug-ins. Not every dealer will have enough plug-in buyers to justify that.

Dealers agnostic

Returning to quote our earlier article one more time:

Aside from a few with strong political beliefs, most car dealers don't care one way or the other about plug-in electric cars.

They care about moving the most cars in the least time at the highest profit with the least hassle.

So until selling a plug-in electric car is as quick and easy as selling any other vehicle that nets the dealer the same profit, many dealers will avoid them, for very logical and understandable reasons.

That means that the appropriate question should be directed to makers of electric cars: What are you doing to make selling electric cars as profitable and painless for your dealers as selling gasoline or diesel vehicles?

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-57619076-48/many-car-dealers-dont-want-to-sell-electric-cars-heres-why/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title

[Wild Cobra]

btw, speaking of sugar, Americans are relentlessly up to an average 130 pounds of sugar consumption per year.

Thanks, BigFood! American love the dead, pathogenic, engineered, food-like substances you put in their feed troughs.

It's not their fault you weigh 380 lbs. That's your choice of diet. They aren't force feeding you. They are only supplying what you demand.

[Wild Cobra]

Many car dealers don't want to sell electric cars: Here's why

The stories abound: A car buyer walks into a dealership, educated about the electric car she wants to buy...and the salesperson tries to convince her she doesn't want that car after all.


Why...

Because these cars are so highly subsidized, the dealers don't make the same profit and commission.

[boutons_deux]

GM Doubles Down On “Moon Shot” Volt EV

GM is throwing down a cool $449 million for an upgrade of its Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly and Brownstown Battery Assembly plants, and that’s good news for anybody who wants to wrap their hands around a next-generation Volt EV, which company officials have hinted is a “moon shot” compared to the current model.

The Hamtramck plant (http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2014/Apr/0408-investment.html) is the manufacturing home of the Volt as well as the Cadillac ELR (http://cleantechnica.com/2014/04/06/test-drive-compare-cadillac-elr-chevy-volt/). The upgrade, along with the hinted-at technology leap for the Volt, puts GM in a position to compete with Tesla (http://gas2.org/2013/09/17/gm-developing-tesla-fighting-200-mile-ev-30000/) in the market for a $30,000 EV with a 200-mile battery range.

The rest of the pot goes to revamp the Brownstown Battery Assembly plant. If you recall the “web” of advanced battery plants (http://gas2.org/2010/07/20/web-of-battery-plants-to-bring-62000-new-green-jobs-to-michigan/) funded by the Recovery Act that we wrote about back in 2010, that included the Brownstown facility.

http://cleantechnica.com/2014/04/12/moonshot-gm-volt-in-the-works/#I1VZLp3SGpPOoi8V.99

[boutons_deux]

Republicans who once reviled Tesla, now praise it


For years, Tesla Motors could get no love from the GOP.

The electric automaker neatly embodied two things many Republicans hated: green technology and federal stimulus loans.

Conservative commentators railed that Tesla used $465 million in taxpayer money to build novelty cars for the rich. :lol

Sarah Palin cited Tesla as an example of "crony capitalism." :lol

Even Mitt Romney, who based his presidential campaign on business smarts, called the company a "loser." :lol :lol :lol

Now, quite suddenly, Republicans, who have been struggling to appeal to a wider swath of voters, are singing the company's praises.

In recent weeks, Tesla has won support from such figures as Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Fox News commentator Bill O'Reilly.

"Everybody on the planet should be rooting for Tesla," O'Reilly said on his March 31 show. "I mean everybody, even the traditional car companies that will have to compete."

Perry and Rubio want to ditch state laws that prevent Tesla from selling directly to consumers, rather than through traditional franchise dealerships. For Tesla, which has been fighting auto dealers in state after state, no issue is more important.

Way to update party image

Backing the company in its fight with dealerships could offer Republicans a way to update their image as a pro-business party, and possibly make inroads in the Democratic bastion of Silicon Valley, analysts say.

"This is an issue where the libertarian ethos of Silicon Valley may match up well with the libertarian ethos in the Republican Party," said Mark Muro, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution. "This could be, for either party, a pillar for a very appealing story on economic change."

Tesla has had prominent Republican backers before.

Based in Palo Alto, Tesla was founded in 2003, a time when green technology was not considered particularly political. Former California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican, bragged about Tesla as an example of the state's technological leadership and even bought one of the company's low-slung Roadsters. (He reportedly returned the car later on, after finding it too difficult to climb into and out of.)

But Republican support for clean tech started to wane after President Obama made green jobs a key part of his economic stimulus package.

( aka stupidly blind ideological politics, now exposed FULLY as stupidly blind ideological politics )

It faded further as GOP doubts about the reality of climate change hardened into outright rejection.

Then in 2011, solar startup Solyndra went bankrupt after receiving $528 million in stimulus loans to build a factory in Fremont. As a result, government loans to green companies became a favorite campaign issue for Republicans nationwide.

Tesla, which won $465 million in federal loans to reopen a shuttered auto plant a mile away from Solyndra, got dragged into the fight. Hence the "loser" comments from Romney and Palin.

Success changes minds

But success can change people's minds. In 2013, Tesla paid back the loan in full, nine years early. Despite a sell-off during the last two months, the company's stock still regularly trades above $200 per share, and Model S sedans are selling as fast as Tesla can make them.

http://m.sfgate.com/politics/article/Republicans-who-once-reviled-Tesla-now-praise-it-5399733.php

[Wild Cobra]

Republicans and Tesla.

One of the few examples where an electric vehicle actually works in the marketplace. I can understand their earlier concerns. can't you?

[scott]

Why...

Because these cars are so highly subsidized, the dealers don't make the same profit and commission.

So let the manufacturers sell them direct to the consumers who want them.

Of course, the Auto Dealers Association won't let that happen either.

[boutons_deux]

Texas to offer $2,500 tax credit for alt-fuel vehicles

Though Texas may not be a fan of Tesla’s direct sales model (http://gas2.org/2013/09/11/politics-and-money-kept-tesla-out-of-texas/), the Lone Star state is ready to offer alternative-fuel vehicle buyers some extra cash. As soon as next week, buyers of CNG, propane, plug-in hybrid, and electric vehicles will be eligible for a $2,500 state tax credit. Combined with the $7,500 Federal tax credit, this could chop $10,000 off the cost of a new alt-fuel vehicle.

The credit only applies to vehicles with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 9,600 pounds or less, which is generous enough to apply to many commercial vehicles like the VIA X-Trux (http://gas2.org/2013/07/31/via-motors-joins-with-pge-on-neighborhood-powering-pickup/). The only other eligibility factor is that EVs must have a battery size of at least 4 kWh, a low barrier of entry that applies to pretty much every hybrid or EV out there, including the Chevy Volt. I wonder if this isn’t also an olive branch to Tesla Motors in a bid to bring the Tesla Gigafactory to Texas (http://gas2.org/2014/05/01/tesla-break-ground-two-gigafactory-sites-expedite-building/).

Actually, scratch that; the tax credit doesn’t apply to Tesla vehicles as they’re “illegal” to sell in Texas, requiring customers to jump though numerous hoops (http://gas2.org/2013/10/24/takes-buy-tesla-model-s-texas/) to get their EVs.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/05/11/texas-to-offer-2500-tax-credit-for-alt-fuel-vehicles/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[Wild Cobra]

Are you complaining or rejoicing about the credit?

Are you complaining or rejoicing about the Tesla delema?

[boutons_deux]

Are you complaining or rejoicing about the credit?

Are you complaining or rejoicing about the Tesla delema?

I report, you complain.

Your delema needs an enema.

[Wild Cobra]

I report, you complain.

Your delema needs an enema.
I was wondering what your take was.

I am personally against it.

[boutons_deux]

I was wondering what your take was.

I am personally against it.

Any govt policies that reduce BigCarbon burning, I'm for. Such policies will NEVER offset the govt policies, going back many decades, that encourage BigCarbon burning.

The TX alt-fuel credit is very surprising.

It's against BigOil, and dealers don't like to sell alt-fuel cars, esp in TX where consumers don't really want them, and macho man trucks are the big margin sales.

[pgardn]

So let the manufacturers sell them direct to the consumers who want them.

Of course, the Auto Dealers Association won't let that happen either.

Republicans like WC love the idea of the fat middle man.

[Wild Cobra]

Republicans like WC love the idea of the fat middle man.
First off, I am right leaning, but no republican.

Second of all, I do prefer that there are local businesses to employ people, but I am not against factory direct.

[pgardn]

First off, I am right leaning, but no republican.

Second of all, I do prefer that there are local businesses to employ people, but I am not against factory direct.

So Tesla would not employ people... Interesting.

What are you implying? Redistribute business money via dealers, that's a good thing?

[TeyshaBlue]

Republicans like WC love the idea of the fat middle man.

Something to think about....that fat middleman creates a shit ton of jobs.

There are advantages to a distribution franchise model. It creates a way more stable retail market for starters...that's the primary driver behind manufacturer opposition to direct sales.

[pgardn]

Something to think about....that fat middleman creates a shit ton of jobs.

There are advantages to a distribution franchise model. It creates a way more stable retail market for starters...that's the primary driver behind manufacturer opposition to direct sales.

But that's wasteful. The consumer could pay lower prices and have more money left over to distribute to other sectors of the economy which would create jobs.

Part of it is my distaste for McCombs and his tax problems, that no one really wants to mention in SA cause Red's such a giver.

[TeyshaBlue]

But that's wasteful. The consumer could pay lower prices and have more money left over to distribute to other sectors of the economy which would create jobs.

Part of it is my distaste for McCombs and his tax problems, that no one really wants to mention in SA cause Red's such a giver.
I'm going to have to see some data points showing that jobs created would even sniff jobs lost. Im pretty sure that piece of analysis doesnt exist...likely for good reason. And that's not even considering the disruption halo (suppliers, jobbers, etc) from destabilizing the retail market.

[TeyshaBlue]

How much lower do you think the prices would be and why?

[pgardn]

I have no idea.

Franchising seems like a great idea for businesses that need distribution. Tesla says it does not apparently. So why hold them to something designed to be helpful when the company sees no reason for it?

As I understand it dealers do not have a large profit margin on new cars that they may jazz up a bit. What I have a problem with is how they slay people on used cars. And still hold that franchise that upholds quality for their cars. Tesla can set their prices at whatever they want. If people don't want the cars for that price I don't see the problem.

Franchises work extraordinarily well for the core business logistically and even save the core business from doing work that is not profitable for them, like finishing a product out completely for the consumers demands.

Middle men actually serve the consumer in these cases as well. Will they serve the consumer and the manufacturer in Teslas case? Tesla thinks not. They have a car that is planned on being serviced very differently.

[boutons_deux]

Car Dealers Earn Just $23 Per Car Sold

Car dealers made an average of $23 forevery new car they sold (http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20120326/RETAIL07/303269967/1203/nada-data-fat-year-for-store-profits) in 2011, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association. Put another way, that profit can help them afford one week of Starbuck lattes, a trip for two to the movies, or a round of drinks for four people (tip not included.)

Dealers are celebrating that $23, because it's a huge swing from 2010 figures, when dealers lost $180 for every car they sold.

Turns out that new cars are essentially a loss leader for dealers, who make most of their money by fixing your car, selling you a warranty when you buy a new car, financing car loans, and used car sales. New car sales are the smallest part of the puzzle, something most dealers do only because the automakers insist. If a business wants to be a certified General Motors dealer, for instance, GM will only allow that if they sell GM's new cars and new trucks.

Don't cry for the car dealers, though. They make a tidy sum on all this other business. The average dealership made $785,855 in 2011, according to the dealers association, the highest revenue since they started tracking the data 40 years ago.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/26/car-dealers-profits_n_1380136.html

[boutons_deux]

Will Tesla Make the Auto Mechanic Obsolete?

There are just six parts (http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1087048_five-facts-about-tesla-electric-cars-that-may-surprise-you) of a Tesla Model S (http://www.greenerideal.com/tag/tesla-model-s/) that must be regularly replaced: the four tires plus the two wiper blades.

The all-electric sedan made in California (http://www.greenerideal.com/tag/california/) doesn’t need the gamut of moving parts found in internal combustion engines. That means no valves, camshafts, crankshaft, cylinders or ignition system. There aren’t any connecting rods, clutches or gears, either, nor any need for belts and pulleys, oil filters, spark plugs, mufflers, oxygen sensors or air filters.

The list goes on.

It’s a little known feature of all battery electric vehicles (http://www.greenerideal.com/tag/electric-vehicles/): simplicity of design and ultralight maintenance. Car owners are estimated to spend half as much on the care of electric vehicles compared to their dinosaur juice-sipping counterparts, according to theCenter for Automotive Research (http://www.cargroup.org/assets/files/deployment.pdf). Why is there such a gap?

Design Differences

Internal combustion engines are inherently complex. They require hundreds and, lately, thousands of specialized components to safely convert fossil fuels into motion via cycles of controlled explosions. And the more ‘modern’ traditional cars get, the more complicated their guts are, and the less friendly to DIY (http://www.greenerideal.com/tag/diy/) repairs.

Most drivers have grown accustomed to regular oil changes, filter switches, radiator flushes, exhaust system replacements and smog checks. These habits were carefully cultivated by generations of car owners to help the high-maintenance gas engine do its job.

Electric vehicles (EVs), in stark contrast, emphasize self-reliance. The design of an electric propulsion system is elegantly simple, pared down to the basics: a propulsion motor, radiator fans, speed controller fans and, sometimes, a coolant pump.

Cars made by Tesla Motors (http://www.greenerideal.com/tag/tesla-motors/) have but one moving part: the rotor. Fewer electronic components are needed, and with regenerative braking, the brake pads in EVs last many times longer than those in traditional cars.

Read more at http://www.teslarati.com/will-tesla-make-auto-mechanic-obsolete/#CPkCQGoCXmYtvfMD.99

The totally disruptive advance will be higher energy density, price, and longer life for EV batteries, permitting EVs to wipe out the internal combustion car.

No surprise that Tesla is looking to build its own battery factory, to capture the manufacturing margins and control supply.

We should cut $100B+ from the US national security/empire mainteance budget and spend it on battery research.

[pgardn]

This is why I have a 95 Honda accord and a 2000 Chevy Siverado truck to haul.

The mechanic that is so honest but you pay for his work keeps them running. F the dealer who charges more and you take it in 5 times before it gets done right.

[pgardn]

The way they plan to change out batteries with robots and such will require high tech people to monitor the machines.

I don't want people pounding on rocks just to pound on rocks. Technology that makes physical lives of people easier can't be stopped. Nor should it be.

[pgardn]

Battery research is incredibly important imo.

[boutons_deux]

Mostly BLUE STATES, natch

California in 8-state pact to boost electric cars

California joined Oregon and six east coast states — together representing nearly one-quarter of America’s auto market — in announcing Thursday a set of joint steps (http://www.nescaum.org/topics/zero-emission-vehicles) designed to add at least 3.3 million electric cars, plug-in hybrids and fuel-cell vehicles to their roads by 2025.



The states, which also include Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island and Vermont, have committed to buying large numbers of zero-emission vehicles for their government fleets and building fueling stations for cars that run on electricity or hydrogen. They may also allow electric car drivers from one state to drive solo in the carpool lines of another and give them prime parking spots in publicly owned garages and lots.

The steps flesh out an agreement signed in October (http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/8-states-sign-deal-to-boost-electric-car-sales-4923827.php) by the governors of each of the states, who view zero-emission vehicles as a way to fight both climate change and air pollution.

http://blog.sfgate.com/energy/2014/05/29/california-in-8-state-pact-to-boost-electric-cars/

=============

Meanwhile in filthy red OH, per ALEC(corporate) marching orders:

Ohio rolls back green energy standards — cue widespread hair-tearing

Congratulations, Ohio! Not only do you purportedly enjoy the most heinous unofficial state food in the union (http://deadspin.com/the-great-american-menu-foods-of-the-states-ranked-an-1349137024) (please refer to item No. 52 on the linked list), you’re also vying for the position of Most Regressive Energy Policies in an Already Relatively Behind-the-Times Country. And that is definitively a contest in which no one wins.

Yesterday, the Ohio House of Representatives passed a bill that will freeze requirements that utilities gradually increase their use of renewable energy and energy efficiency. It rolls back a law passed by a wide majority of the state House and Senate in 2008. The state Senate has also approved the bill, and Gov. John Kasich (R) is expected to sign it (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2014/05/28/green-energy-bill-revamp-passes-ohio-house.html).

On what basis could one oppose such a green energy policy? Let’s ask an Ohio Republican. From The Columbus Dispatch (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2014/05/28/green-energy-bill-revamp-passes-ohio-house.html):


The standards needed to be changed because they “are simply not achievable or sustainable,” said Rep. Peter Stautberg, R-Anderson Township.


Alright, then! Let’s keep dreaming big, America.

Across the country, conservative organizations such as the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) (http://www.alecexposed.org/wiki/ALEC_Exposed) have spent the past couple of years trying to roll back state renewable energy standards.

Until yesterday, their efforts had largely failed (http://grist.org/news/campaign-to-roll-back-state-renewable-programs-is-a-flop-so-far/).

To be fair to Ohioans, this outcome doesn’t appear to be representative of their actual desires at all — and thus the irony of American democracy strikes again.

Last month, a survey (http://ohioadvancedenergy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Ohio-Energy-Summary-Memo-4-15-14-FINAL.pdf) commissioned by the Ohio Advanced Energy Economy showed that 72 percent of Ohio residents expressed a preference for pursuing solar and wind power as alternatives to coal and nuclear energy. Eighty-six percent supported the 2008 clean energy law as it was.

http://grist.org/news/ohio-rolls-back-green-energy-standards-cue-widespread-hair-tearing/?utm_source=syndication&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=feed

[boutons_deux]

Too Much Electric Car News!http://cleantechnica.com/2014/06/07/much-electric-car-news/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

[boutons_deux]

holy shit, talk about revolutionary, disruption!

All Our Patent Are Belong To You (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you)

By Elon Musk

Yesterday, there was a wall of Tesla patents in the lobby of our Palo Alto headquarters. That is no longer the case. They have been removed, in the spirit of the open source movement, for the advancement of electric vehicle technology.

Tesla Motors was created to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport. If we clear a path to the creation of compelling electric vehicles, but then lay intellectual property landmines behind us to inhibit others, we are acting in a manner contrary to that goal. Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.

When I started out with my first company, Zip2, I thought patents were a good thing and worked hard to obtain them. And maybe they were good long ago, but too often these days they serve merely to stifle progress, entrench the positions of giant corporations and enrich those in the legal profession, rather than the actual inventors. After Zip2, when I realized that receiving a patent really just meant that you bought a lottery ticket to a lawsuit, I avoided them whenever possible.

At Tesla, however, we felt compelled to create patents out of concern that the big car companies would copy our technology and then use their massive manufacturing, sales and marketing power to overwhelm Tesla. We couldn’t have been more wrong. The unfortunate reality is the opposite: electric car programs (or programs for any vehicle that doesn’t burn hydrocarbons) at the major manufacturers are small to non-existent, constituting an average of far less than 1% of their total vehicle sales.

At best, the large automakers are producing electric cars with limited range in limited volume. Some produce no zero emission cars at all.

Given that annual new vehicle production is approaching 100 million per year and the global fleet is approximately 2 billion cars, it is impossible for Tesla to build electric cars fast enough to address the carbon crisis. By the same token, it means the market is enormous. Our true competition is not the small trickle of non-Tesla electric cars being produced, but rather the enormous flood of gasoline cars pouring out of the world’s factories every day.

We believe that Tesla, other companies making electric cars, and the world would all benefit from a common, rapidly-evolving technology platform.

Technology leadership is not defined by patents, which history has repeatedly shown to be small protection indeed against a determined competitor, but rather by the ability of a company to attract and motivate the world’s most talented engineers. We believe that applying the open source philosophy to our patents will strengthen rather than diminish Tesla’s position in this regard.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

[Wild Cobra]

Cool.

[boutons_deux]

this could be a game changer if it scales up, killing NatGas as source of hydrogen and makes the upcoming delivery of FCV and all EVs very promising.

HyperSolar Reports Record Time for Hydrogen Production

The company’s patent pending polymer coating applied to a bromine electrode in a wireless solar powered particle allows continuous production of renewable hydrogen for 170 hours

SANTA BARBARA, CA – June 30, 2014 -HyperSolar, Inc. (OTCQB: HYSR), the developer of a breakthrough technology to produce renewable hydrogen using sunlight and water, announced today that it’s patent pending polymer coating, when applied to a bromine electrode in a wireless solar powered particle, resulted in 170 continuous hours of hydrogen production, one of the longest duration applications of wireless hydrogen production on record.

The test conducted by members of the company’s research team at the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB) confirms the possibility of commercializing a process for the direct conversion of sunlight into valuable chemicals and fuels. Solar to chemical conversion (artificial photosynthesis) has the advantage in that the energy storage challenges associated with photovoltaics are eliminated. The company’s goal is to efficiently convert solar energy into hydrogen.

“Our UCSB research team is continuing its work to reach the ultimate milestone of achieving 1.5 open volts required to successfully split water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. Meanwhile, we are very encouraged to learn that our patent pending polymer coating will allow the process to occur,” said Tim Young, CEO of HyperSolar.

HyperSolar’s technology is based on the concept of developing a low-cost, submersible hydrogen production particle that can split water molecules using sunlight without any other external systems or resources – acting as artificial photosynthesis. A video of an early proof-of-concept prototype can be viewed at http://hypersolar.com/application.php. The company announced earlier this year that it had achieved 1.2 open circuit voltage progressing towards its goal of 1.5 open volts.

==============

Here's where Feds could drop a few $100M to "pick a potentially HUGE winner"

[CosmicCowboy]

holy shit, talk about revolutionary, disruption!

All Our Patent Are Belong To You (http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you)

By Elon Musk

Yesterday, there was a wall of Tesla patents in the lobby of our Palo Alto headquarters. That is no longer the case. They have been removed, in the spirit of the open source movement, for the advancement of electric vehicle technology.

Tesla Motors was created to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport. If we clear a path to the creation of compelling electric vehicles, but then lay intellectual property landmines behind us to inhibit others, we are acting in a manner contrary to that goal. Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.

When I started out with my first company, Zip2, I thought patents were a good thing and worked hard to obtain them. And maybe they were good long ago, but too often these days they serve merely to stifle progress, entrench the positions of giant corporations and enrich those in the legal profession, rather than the actual inventors. After Zip2, when I realized that receiving a patent really just meant that you bought a lottery ticket to a lawsuit, I avoided them whenever possible.

At Tesla, however, we felt compelled to create patents out of concern that the big car companies would copy our technology and then use their massive manufacturing, sales and marketing power to overwhelm Tesla. We couldn’t have been more wrong. The unfortunate reality is the opposite: electric car programs (or programs for any vehicle that doesn’t burn hydrocarbons) at the major manufacturers are small to non-existent, constituting an average of far less than 1% of their total vehicle sales.

At best, the large automakers are producing electric cars with limited range in limited volume. Some produce no zero emission cars at all.

Given that annual new vehicle production is approaching 100 million per year and the global fleet is approximately 2 billion cars, it is impossible for Tesla to build electric cars fast enough to address the carbon crisis. By the same token, it means the market is enormous. Our true competition is not the small trickle of non-Tesla electric cars being produced, but rather the enormous flood of gasoline cars pouring out of the world’s factories every day.

We believe that Tesla, other companies making electric cars, and the world would all benefit from a common, rapidly-evolving technology platform.

Technology leadership is not defined by patents, which history has repeatedly shown to be small protection indeed against a determined competitor, but rather by the ability of a company to attract and motivate the world’s most talented engineers. We believe that applying the open source philosophy to our patents will strengthen rather than diminish Tesla’s position in this regard.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

Hmmm..setting up customers for it's planned battery plant. I think I'm going to buy some Tesla stock.

[boutons_deux]

Hmmm..setting up customers for it's planned battery plant. I think I'm going to buy some Tesla stock.

If that "hydrogen from sunlight + water" research works out, batteries as exclusive power source of EVs will be doomed.

[boutons_deux]

Availability of Lithium

The demand for Li-ion batteries is increasing, and finding sufficient supply of lithium as a raw material is testing the mining industry. A compact EV battery (Nissan Leaf) uses about 4kg (9 lb) of lithium. If every man, woman and teenager were to drive an electric car in the future, a lithium shortage could develop and rumor of this happening is already spreading.

About 70 percent of the world’s lithium comes from brine (salt lakes); the remainder is derived from hard rock. Research institutes are developing technology to draw lithium from seawater. China is the largest consumer of lithium. The Chinese believe that future cars will run on Li-ion batteries and an unbridled supply of lithium is important to them.

In 2009, total demand for lithium reached almost 92,000 metric tons, of which batteries consume 26 percent. Figure 1 illustrates typical uses of lithium, which include lubricants, glass, ceramics, pharmaceuticals and refrigeration.



http://batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/avail.jpg
Figure 1: Lithium consumption (2008)
Batteries consume the largest share of lithium, and with the advent of the electric vehicle the demand could skyrocket. For now, the world has enough proven lithium reserves.
Courtesy of Talison Minerals



Most of the known supply of lithium is in Bolivia, Argentina, Chile, Australia and China. The supply is ample and concerns of global shortages are speculative, at least for the moment. It takes 750 tons of brine, the base of lithium, and 24 months of preparation to get one ton of lithium in Latin America. Lithium can also be recycled an unlimited number of times, and 20 tons of spent Li-ion batteries yield one ton of lithium. This will help the supply, but recycling can be more expensive than harvesting new supply through mining.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/availability_of_lithium

[Wild Cobra]

this could be a game changer if it scales up, killing NatGas as source of hydrogen and makes the upcoming delivery of FCV and all EVs very promising.

HyperSolar Reports Record Time for Hydrogen Production

The company’s patent pending polymer coating applied to a bromine electrode in a wireless solar powered particle allows continuous production of renewable hydrogen for 170 hours

SANTA BARBARA, CA – June 30, 2014 -HyperSolar, Inc. (OTCQB: HYSR), the developer of a breakthrough technology to produce renewable hydrogen using sunlight and water, announced today that it’s patent pending polymer coating, when applied to a bromine electrode in a wireless solar powered particle, resulted in 170 continuous hours of hydrogen production, one of the longest duration applications of wireless hydrogen production on record.

The test conducted by members of the company’s research team at the University of California, Santa Barbara (UCSB) confirms the possibility of commercializing a process for the direct conversion of sunlight into valuable chemicals and fuels. Solar to chemical conversion (artificial photosynthesis) has the advantage in that the energy storage challenges associated with photovoltaics are eliminated. The company’s goal is to efficiently convert solar energy into hydrogen.

“Our UCSB research team is continuing its work to reach the ultimate milestone of achieving 1.5 open volts required to successfully split water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. Meanwhile, we are very encouraged to learn that our patent pending polymer coating will allow the process to occur,” said Tim Young, CEO of HyperSolar.

HyperSolar’s technology is based on the concept of developing a low-cost, submersible hydrogen production particle that can split water molecules using sunlight without any other external systems or resources – acting as artificial photosynthesis. A video of an early proof-of-concept prototype can be viewed at http://hypersolar.com/application.php. The company announced earlier this year that it had achieved 1.2 open circuit voltage progressing towards its goal of 1.5 open volts.

==============

Here's where Feds could drop a few $100M to "pick a potentially HUGE winner"



Am I to understand it only lasted for 170 hours? If so, at what cost. How much to replenish it for the next 170 hrs, and what is the residue? What is the recycling cost?

[boutons_deux]

Am I to understand it only lasted for 170 hours? If so, at what cost. How much to replenish it for the next 170 hrs, and what is the residue? What is the recycling cost?

No doubt the researchers haven't thought of any of this questions, so I'm sure your input would be appreciated.

[CavsSuperFan]

Honda's first jet takes to the skies
If GM made a Jet would you fly in it?

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/05/honda-jet-630.jpg

[boutons_deux]

nano to the rescue

Team achieves ‘holy grail’ of battery design: A stable lithium anode

Engineers use carbon nanospheres to protect lithium from the reactive and expansive problems that have restricted its use as an anode

Engineers across the globe have been racing to design smaller, cheaper and more efficient rechargeable batteries to meet the power storage needs of everything from handheld gadgets to electric cars.

In a paper published today in the journal Nature Nanotechnology, researchers at Stanford University report that they have taken a big step toward accomplishing what battery designers have been trying to do for decades – design a pure lithium anode.
All batteries have three basic components: an electrolyte to provide electrons, an anode to discharge those electrons, and a cathode to receive them.

Today, we say we have lithium batteries, but that is only partly true. What we have are lithium ion batteries. The lithium is in the electrolyte, but not in the anode. An anode of pure lithium would be a huge boost to battery efficiency.

“Of all the materials that one might use in an anode, lithium has the greatest potential. Some call it the Holy Grail,” said Yi Cui, a professor of Material Science and Engineering and leader of the research team. “It is very lightweight and it has the highest energy density. You get more power per volume and weight, leading to lighter, smaller batteries with more power.”

But engineers have long tried and failed to reach this Holy Grail.

“Lithium has major challenges that have made its use in anodes difficult. Many engineers had given up the search, but we found a way to protect the lithium from the problems that have plagued it for so long,” said Guangyuan Zheng, a doctoral candidate in Cui’s lab and first author of the paper.

In addition to Zheng, the research team includes Steven Chu, the former U.S. Secretary of Energy and Nobel Laureate who recently resumed his professorship at Stanford.

“In practical terms, if we can improve the capacity of batteries to, say, four times today’s, that would be exciting. You might be able to have cell phone with double or triple the battery life or an electric car with a range of 300 miles that cost only $25,000—competitive with an internal combustion engine getting 40 mpg,” Chu said.

The engineering challenge

In the paper, the authors explain how they are overcoming the problems posed by lithium.

Most lithium ion batteries, like those you might find in your smart phone or hybrid car, work similarly. The key components include an anode, the negative pole from which electrons flow out and into a power-hungry device, and the cathode, where the electrons re-enter the battery once they have traveled through the circuit. Separating them is an electrolyte, a solid or liquid loaded with positively charged lithium ions that travel between the anode and cathode.

During charging, the positively charged lithium ions in the electrolyte are attracted to the negatively charged anode and the lithium accumulates on the anode. Today, the anode in a lithium ion battery is actually made of graphite or silicon.

Engineers would like to use lithium for the anode, but so far they have been unable to do so. That’s because the lithium ions expand as they gather on the anode during charging.

All anode materials, including graphite and silicon, expand somewhat during charging, but not like lithium. Researchers say that lithium’s expansion during charging is “virtually infinite” relative to the other materials. Its expansion is also uneven, causing pits and cracks to form in the outer surface, like paint on the exterior of a balloon that is being inflated.

The resulting fissures on the surface of the anode allow the precious lithium ions to escape, forming hair-like or mossy growths, called dendrites. Dendrites, in turn, short circuit the battery and shorten its life.

Preventing this buildup is the first challenge of using lithium for the battery’s anode.

The second engineering challenge is that a lithium anode is highly chemically reactive with the electrolyte. It uses up the electrolyte and reduces battery life.

An additional problem is that the anode and electrolyte produce heat when they come into contact. Lithium batteries, including those in use today, can overheat to the point of fire, or even explosion, and are, therefore, a serious safety concern. The recent battery fires in Tesla cars and on Boeing’s Dreamliner are prominent examples of the challenges of lithium ion batteries.

Building the nanospheres

To solve these problems the Stanford researchers built a protective layer of interconnected carbon domes on top of their lithium anode. This layer is what the team has called nanospheres
The Stanford team’s nanosphere layer resembles a honeycomb: it creates a flexible, uniform and non-reactive film that protects the unstable lithium from the drawbacks that have made it such a challenge. The carbon nanosphere wall is just 20 nanometers thick. It would take some 5,000 layers stacked one atop another to equal the width of single human hair.

“The ideal protective layer for a lithium metal anode needs to be chemically stable to protect against the chemical reactions with the electrolyte and mechanically strong to withstand the expansion of the lithium during charge,” Cui said.

The Stanford nanosphere layer is just that. It is made of amorphous carbon, which is chemically stable, yet strong and flexible so as to move freely up and down with the lithium as it expands and contracts during the battery’s normal charge-discharge cycle.

Ideal within reach

In technical terms, the nanospheres improve the coulombic efficiency of the battery—a ratio of the amount of lithium that can be extracted from the anode when the battery is in use compared to the amount put in during charging. A single round of this give-and-take process is called a cycle.

Generally, to be commercially viable, a battery must have a coulombic efficiency of 99.9 percent or more, ideally over as many cycles as possible. Previous anodes of unprotected lithium metal achieved approximately 96 percent efficiency, which dropped to less than 50 percent in just 100 cycles—not nearly good enough. The Stanford team’s new lithium metal anode achieves 99 percent efficiency even at 150 cycles.

“The difference between 99 percent and 96 percent, in battery terms, is huge. So, while we’re not quite to that 99.9 percent threshold, where we need to be, we’re close and this is a significant improvement over any previous design,” Cui said. “With some additional engineering and new electrolytes, we believe we can realize a practical and stable lithium metal anode that could power the next generation of rechargeable batteries.”

Read more at http://scienceblog.com/73597/team-achieves-holy-grail-battery-design-stable-lithium-anode/#RO0PSIyoY4gUVEkT.99

When the battery problem (more recharge cycles, charge time, energy density, cost, etc) is solved, the switch to EVs will be massive.

[boutons_deux]

Republicans Are Only Sometimes the Party of Uber

Consider state laws that prohibit auto manufacturers like Tesla from selling directly to consumers. Car dealers favor these laws, which interfere with Tesla’s direct sales model.

Of 22 states that permit direct sales, 14 voted for President Obama. New York, California and Illinois all have freer markets in auto retailing than Texas.

Did I mention that car dealers are a strongly Republican constituency? In 2009, the statistician Nate Silverfound that 88 percent (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/news-flash-car-dealers-are-republicans/) of car dealers’ political donations went to Republicans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/09/upshot/republicans-are-only-sometimes-the-party-of-uber.html?abt=0002&abg=1

Repugs' REAL ideology is do whatever my corrupters pay me to do (not "free market" crap)

[boutons_deux]

$8,000 Hydrogen Tax Credit Expires, What Now?


http://gas2.org/2014/12/24/8000-hydrogen-tax-credit-expires-now/

[boutons_deux]

Chevy says that the Volt has saved more than 25 billion gallons of fuel and that its owners are averaging 900 miles per tank of gas.

http://www.cnet.com/news/chevrolet-gives-us-a-sneak-peek-of-the-new-volt-at-ces-2015/#ftag=CAD590a51e

[boutons_deux]

Toyota to give away fuel-cell patents to boost industry

Toyota will give away thousands of patents for its fuel-cell cars, it said Tuesday, in an effort to encourage other automakers into the new industry.

The world’s largest vehicle maker said it will allow royalty-free use of about 5,680 patent licenses, including 1,970 related to fuel-cell stacks and 3,350 concerning fuel-cell system control technology.

The firm also said the free patent licenses will include about 290 items related to high-pressure hydrogen tanks.

The cost-free licenses will be allowed “through the initial market introduction period” of fuel cell vehicles (FCV), which the company expects to last until about 2020.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/toyota-to-give-away-fuel-cell-patents-to-boost-industry/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[Wild Cobra]

Toyota to give away fuel-cell patents to boost industry

Toyota will give away thousands of patents for its fuel-cell cars, it said Tuesday, in an effort to encourage other automakers into the new industry.

The world’s largest vehicle maker said it will allow royalty-free use of about 5,680 patent licenses, including 1,970 related to fuel-cell stacks and 3,350 concerning fuel-cell system control technology.

The firm also said the free patent licenses will include about 290 items related to high-pressure hydrogen tanks.

The cost-free licenses will be allowed “through the initial market introduction period” of fuel cell vehicles (FCV), which the company expects to last until about 2020.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/toyota-to-give-away-fuel-cell-patents-to-boost-industry/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29




Great strategy.

Get other auto makers to use their patents for the next five years for free, so they don't make their own technology, then you have a captive market to sell the rights to!

Boutons, I didn't know you appreciated capitalistic marketing strategies that much!

[boutons_deux]

research and technology are moving so fast in FCVs, I wonder how much these patents are really worth, and to whom.

All big car mfrs already are deep into FCVs and have models coming out in the next couple years.

as with solar and wind, the FCV obstacles are as much political as technical, with ALEC/BigCarbon/Repugs blocking renewables at every turn.

[RandomGuy]

research and technology are moving so fast in FCVs, I wonder how much these patents are really worth, and to whom.

All big car mfrs already are deep into FCVs and have models coming out in the next couple years.

as with solar and wind, the FCV obstacles are as much political as technical, with ALEC/BigCarbon/Repugs blocking renewables at every turn.

A whiff of brimstone

Adding sulphur to electrical cells may quintuple their performance


BUILD a better battery, to paraphrase Ralph Waldo Emerson, and the world will beat a path to your door. For consumer goods, from computers to cars, “better” means “better than lithium-ion”. And several groups of engineers think they have one: it is based on lithium and sulphur.

A lithium-ion (Li-ion) battery works by shuttling the eponymous ions, which are positively charged, through an electrolyte that links two electrodes, one made of carbon and the other of a substance containing a heavy metal such as cobalt, manganese or nickel. Such metals have multiple oxidation states, meaning they can lose or gain different numbers of electrons in different circumstances. To balance the movement of lithium ions, electrons (which are negatively charged) move to or from the heavy metal through an external circuit that also links the electrodes, changing the metal’s oxidation state as they do so. When the battery is discharging, both ions and electrons travel spontaneously in one direction, creating a current and releasing energy. When it is being recharged they are forced, by the application of a voltage, to go the other way and thus to store energy.

Lithium-sulphur batteries work in a similar fashion, but dispense with the heavy metal. Instead, they use sulphur, which also has multiple oxidation states—more of them, indeed, than many metals do. This fact, combined with sulphur’s lightness, means lithium-sulphur batteries can, in principle, store four or five times as much energy per gram as lithium-ion ones manage. And, since sulphur is cheap, they can do so at lower cost.

Turning that principle into practice, though, has been a hard slog. Experimental lithium-sulphur cells tend to wear out, because the sulphur in their electrodes gradually dissolves into the electrolyte. There are also questions about their safety. Part of the cycle of a lithium-sulphur battery involves some lithium ions turning into metallic lithium. This metallic form of the element may grow into filaments called dendrites that cause short circuits, and thus overheating and fires.
http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21637344-adding-sulphur-electrical-cells-may-quintuple-their-performance-whiff

That last bit notes the technical part of why these things have fires, like the ones that grounded Boeing's dreamliners. I thought it an interesting bit of chemical knowledge

[boutons_deux]

A whiff of brimstone

Adding sulphur to electrical cells may quintuple their performance


http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21637344-adding-sulphur-electrical-cells-may-quintuple-their-performance-whiff

That last bit notes the technical part of why these things have fires, like the ones that grounded Boeing's dreamliners. I thought it an interesting bit of chemical knowledge

sulphur's cheap? :lol yep, yellow MOUNTAINS of it next to refineries that remove it from diesel, other oil products. There's even a town in S. Louisiana named after it.

[boutons_deux]

Study Says EV Chargers More Effective Than Tax Credits

The National Science Foundation has released a study (http://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=133947) that concludes EV tax credits have been ineffective at convincing people to switch to battery or plug in cars.

It says if the $1.05 billion in tax credits given to individual buyers between 2011 and 2013 had been used to build charging infrastructure instead, there would be 60,000 more charging stations in America right now.

That’s half as many charging stations as there are gas stations in the US and would eliminate range anxiety as a reason not to buy and electric car.

http://gas2.org/2015/02/08/study-says-ev-chargers-more-effective-than-tax-credits/

hmm, there is a serious premium, not fully offset by tax breaks, to pay for an EV vs. GV. But that should be coming down with the Tesla Giga factory and inevitable battery breakthroughs.

[boutons_deux]

California Senate Bill 40 — Proposal To Limit Tax-Funded Rebates To Cars Under $40,000 (Subtext: So, No Teslas)

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/27/california-senate-bill-40-proposal-limit-tax-funded-rebates-cars-40000-put-forward-subtext-no-teslas/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

And how about limiting mortgage interest deductions to homes homes at or below the median new house price, prorated by region?

Nah, the plutocrats would NEVER screw themselves to Fix The Debt, just screw the poor.

[boutons_deux]

Act Now: Georgia Electric Car Buyers Could Get The Shaft, Lose $5,000 Incentive & “Gain” A $200/Year Fee

Georgia’s House and Senate have passed (http://atlantaevdc.com/2015/03/23/the-economist-takes-note-of-the-ev-tax-credit-fight-in-georgia/) a bill that would eliminate the state’s $5,000 zero-emission-vehicle (ZEV) tax credit and also put a $200/year road usage fee on electric vehicles. Oy, not good news. The bill hasn’t been signed into law yet

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/27/act-now-georgia-electric-car-buyers-could-get-the-shaft-lose-5000-incentive-gain-a-200year-fee/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

Repugs! :lol Always moving America forward! :lol

red states! :lol

Confederacy! :lol

[Wild Cobra]

Act Now: Georgia Electric Car Buyers Could Get The Shaft, Lose $5,000 Incentive & “Gain” A $200/Year Fee

Georgia’s House and Senate have passed (http://atlantaevdc.com/2015/03/23/the-economist-takes-note-of-the-ev-tax-credit-fight-in-georgia/) a bill that would eliminate the state’s $5,000 zero-emission-vehicle (ZEV) tax credit and also put a $200/year road usage fee on electric vehicles. Oy, not good news. The bill hasn’t been signed into law yet

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/03/27/act-now-georgia-electric-car-buyers-could-get-the-shaft-lose-5000-incentive-gain-a-200year-fee/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

Repugs! :lol Always moving America forward! :lol

red states! :lol

Confederacy! :lol




$200 is a bit high. To replace the approximate $0.193 tax per gallon, that equates to buying 1,036 gallons. If they assume replacing the gasoline tax used by a 25 MPG car, that means they expect people to average 26,000 + miles annually. That's about twice the average I think.

Should be $100 max.

[Wild Cobra]

As normal, Shazbot is regurgitating misinformation.

HB 170:

http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/20152016/151889.pdf

[boutons_deux]

$200 is a bit high. To replace the approximate $0.193 tax per gallon, that equates to buying 1,036 gallons. If they assume replacing the gasoline tax used by a 25 MPG car, that means they expect people to average 26,000 + miles annually. That's about twice the average I think.

Should be $100 max.

Repugs increase taxes? Only when BigCarbon is calling the shots.

[boutons_deux]

Inexpensive Electric Cars May Arrive Sooner Than You Think

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/536336/inexpensive-electric-cars-may-arrive-sooner-than-you-think/

[boutons_deux]

While Musk/Tesla bet big on battery EVs, esp betting on huge breakthroughs in battery tech, the majors have kept their FCEV programs going, also betting huge breakthroughs in hydrogen production. This could be one, from the Owl people.

More Good News For Fuel Cell EV Fans

The current catalyst of choice is based on platinum, which needless to say is quite pricey.

The Rice team came up with a thin film based on cobalt that could do the same job, and do it better, and cheaper, too. No, really — the material itself is cheaper, and the manufacturing process is inexpensive and scalable.

Speaking of US taxpayers, before we get on to that tidal energy thing, let’s pause here for a big group hug, because our friends over at the Air Force Office of Scientific Research supported the Rice team through its Multidisciplinary University Research Initiative (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/library/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=9327).

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/04/17/good-news-fuel-cell-ev-fans/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

Of course, plug-in EVs still have the big advantage of infrastructure (electrical grid) but offset by the "range anxiety" of prospective EV buyers.

I read where the govt messed up only by investing $1B+ in EV tax breaks when $1B+ should have also been spent equally on subsidizing the network of plugin stations.

That's easily fixed. Just cut $10B from MIC corporate welfare and spend it on EV plug-in network. Nah, the MIC owns Congress and its spending decision.

[boutons_deux]

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars Return for Another Run

FOR decades, hydrogen has been the Dracula of automotive fuels: Just when you think a stake has been driven through its zero-emissions heart, the technology rises from the grave.

In 2015, even with gasoline (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/energy-environment/oil-petroleum-and-gasoline/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) cheaper than it has been in years, hydrogen is back to haunt those who insist that battery electric vehicles (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/e/electric_vehicles/index.html?&inline=nyt-classifier) are the long-term solution for reducing fossil fuel consumption and carbon dioxide emissions.

This time — with hydrogen fuel cell costs falling significantly, and a tiny yet budding network of public fueling stations — automakers are placing their latest long-odds bet on hydrogen cars.

Hyundai has been first in the latest wave of fuel cell models, which are actually electric cars (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/e/electric_vehicles/index.html?&inline=nyt-classifier) with one important difference: Instead of a plug-in battery that draws power from the electrical grid, a fuel cell generates power from an electrochemical reaction between onboard hydrogen and oxygen in the air. Clean water trickles out the tailpipe as the only byproduct.

In a technical riposte to most battery electric vehicles, which generally travel less than 100 miles on a charge, and take several hours to recharge, fuel cell cars operate as conveniently as gasoline (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/energy-environment/oil-petroleum-and-gasoline/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) models. They travel roughly 300 miles on a tank, and their ultrastrong carbon-fiber tanks can be pumped full of hydrogen in less than 10 minutes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/17/automobiles/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-return-for-another-run.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0

[boutons_deux]

The car of the future — the very near future — might be driven by the wind

it suddenly feels like the most exciting place in Berlin, because — yikes! I remember — we’re in the future! That car outside, the one we’re driving in, doesn’t run on gasoline or diesel fuel or batteries. It runs on hydrogen! The stuff that makes the sun go!

And windmills, some looming right above us. And there’s a big concrete shed with a machine inside it that runs on some of that wind power and that Enertrag hopes will help fix the imbalance between renewable energy supply and demand.

“This project (https://www.enertrag.com/en/project-development/hybrid-power-plant.html) demonstrates that renewable energy is capable of providing energy, demand-sided,” Döring tells me. That is, when people need it, not just when nature provides it. “Even when wind turbines are not turning because the wind is not there, we store the wind power in the form of hydrogen, and we can use it for different purposes.”

In other words, it turns wind power into hydrogen. Hydrogen that can be stored, moved and turned back into electricity whenever it’s needed.

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-04-08/car-future-very-near-future-might-be-driven-wind

iow, fuck BigOil, fuck API, and very especially FUCK THE KOCK BROS

[boutons_deux]

but what is the eROI ?

Audi creates green 'e-diesel fuel of the future' using just carbon dioxide and water

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/audi-creates-green-e-diesel-fuel-future-using-just-carbon-dioxide-water-1498524

[Fabbs]

but what is the eROI ?

Audi creates green 'e-diesel fuel of the future' using just carbon dioxide and water

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/audi-creates-green-e-diesel-fuel-future-using-just-carbon-dioxide-water-1498524

Anyone trying to bring this to fruition should fear for the lives.
Oil Pigs gonna come knockin.

[boutons_deux]

http://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1435732/audi-fuel.jpg?w=736

[Wild Cobra]

The blue crude would be great, but I wonder how cost effective is it?

We have too much power capacity in the Pacific Northwest, between hydropower and wind. We actually would have a great solar potential in about 1/4 of Oregon in the SE as well, but it is sparsely populated. Something like this would be great to develop in SE Oregon, and the gorge, where there is excessive wind potential.

Again however... cost... What would the selling price be?

[boutons_deux]

how many millions of solar panels and 1000s of wind turbines would to take to produce enough non-carbon electricity to produce enough blue diesel to be significant at auto industry scale?

and the exhaust from blue diesel is still pollution.

[Wild Cobra]

how many millions of solar panels and 1000s of wind turbines would to take to produce enough non-carbon electricity to produce enough blue diesel to be significant at auto industry scale?

and the exhaust from blue diesel is still pollution.
There is still the cost of producing it, and the exhaust would be CO2 and H2O. Not pollution, and the CO2 emitted came from the atmosphere to begin with.

[boutons_deux]

Team Sets New Cross Country Record With Tesla Model S

Perhaps the biggest advantage the Tesla Model S has over other electric cars isn’t its longer range, but its comprehensive and fast-charging Supercharger network. Tesla wants owners to be able to drive anywhere, including straight across the country, as Tesla demonstrated last year (http://gas2.org/2014/01/31/tesla-embarks-record-setting-cross-country-road-trip/). Many Tesla owners are doing just that, sometimes even in record time.

A team of Model S drivers went from Los Angeles to New York City in 58 hours and 55 minutes, reports Jalopnik (http://jalopnik.com/they-drove-a-tesla-from-la-to-new-york-in-a-record-58-h-1699782187), beating the record for electric vehicles set by Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/about/press/edmundscom-tesla-drivers-set-record-for-cross-country-travel-in-electric-vehicle.html) last year by about 90 minutes. The team was made up of Carl Reese and his fiancee Deen Mastracci, as well as Rodney Hawk, a high school friend serving as the third driver. Another three friends followed in the ultimate anti-Tesla, a Chevrolet Suburban, as a support team, with the Tesla drivers sometimes cozying up to the rear of the Suburban for drafting purposes.

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/05/04/team-sets-new-cross-country-record-with-tesla-model-s/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

[boutons_deux]

Why More And More States Could Start Considering Fees On Electric Cars (http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/05/08/3655918/state-electric-vehicle-fees/)

The proposal, which also would have amended the state constitution to increase fuel taxes, was billed as a way for the state to get more revenue to repair roads and bridges. Since hybrid owners buy less gas than owners of conventional vehicles, and electric car owners buy no gas at all, the state saw the proposal as a way to continue to get revenue from owners of more fuel efficient cars.

Proposal 1 may have pushed for a new fee on electric car owners, but according to Kristy Hartman, a senior energy policy specialist with the National Conference of State Legislatures (http://www.ncsl.org/), state policies on electric vehicles in recent years largely have aimed to benefit electric vehicle owners. In fact, she told ThinkProgress in an email, 37 states have adopted incentives to encourage consumers to purchase electric cars, such as tax credits, rebates, free parking, and HOV lane access.

“There is a continuing trend among states to offer some type of incentive to support electric vehicle adoption,” Hartman said. These incentives are still in their early years, as are the studies to measure their effectiveness, but according to Hartman, “it appears that states that offer a variety of incentives tend to have higher rates of electric vehicle adoption.”

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2015/05/08/3655918/state-electric-vehicle-fees/

[boutons_deux]

if not this nano-tech, then it will be others, sooner or later

Nanowires Boost Hydrogen Production from Sunlight Tenfold

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/green-tech/solar/nanowires-improving-hydrogen-production-with-sunlight-tenfold-?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IeeeSpectrumGreenTech+%28IEEE +Spectrum%3A+Green+Tech%29

and Gallium is abundant, available in bauxite.

[Wild Cobra]

if not this nano-tech, then it will be others, sooner or later

Nanowires Boost Hydrogen Production from Sunlight Tenfold

http://spectrum.ieee.org/energywise/green-tech/solar/nanowires-improving-hydrogen-production-with-sunlight-tenfold-?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IeeeSpectrumGreenTech+%28IEEE +Spectrum%3A+Green+Tech%29

and Gallium is abundant, available in bauxite.



Yep...

They increase the efficiency from 0.29% to 2.9%.

Wow...

2.9% efficiency!

http://www.greentechlead.com/solar/gallium-phosphide-found-to-increase-solar-cell-efficiency-24792

[Wild Cobra]

and Gallium is abundant, available in bauxite.


The availability isn't the issue. It's making the 90 nm x 500 nm wires the way that's needed. then there is life...

I'll bet they don't last long, unless using ultra pure water, in a sealed system!

[boutons_deux]

Ford Survey Finds 90% Of Electric Car Owners Plan To Stick With Electric Drive


A new survey of plug-in hybrid and electric car drivers by Ford Motor Company (http://gas2.org/tag/Ford/) finds that 90% of the 10,000 people surveyed like driving a plug in hybrid or electric car (http://evobsession.com/electric-cars-2014-list/) and have no plans to go back to driving a gasoline-powered car in the future.

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/C-Max-Electric-500x298.jpg (http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/C-Max-Electric.jpg)

Most of those who participated in the survey said that driving an electric car was just a nicer experience that driving a gasoline vehicle. Some of the reasons why this is so include that electric cars are quieter than their gasoline cousins. That seems to lead people to believe they have a smoother, more comfortable ride. Many respondents also singled out environment benefits as a primary motivator for their decision to drive an electric car.

Stephanie Janczak, Ford’s manager of electric vehicle infrastructure and technology, said in a recent interview with CleanTechnica (http://cleantechnica.com/) that most all-electric drivers say they would stay with that type of car in the future while plug-in hybrid (http://evobsession.com/10-best-hybrid-cars/) owners were more inclined to consider switching to an all-electric vehicle (http://evobsession.com/10-best-electric-cars/) for their next vehicle. The driving experience and an appreciation of clean technology were cited by many as the main reasons for staying electric, she said.

http://gas2.org/2015/08/13/ford-survey-finds-90-electric-car-owners-satisfied/

we really need huge battery breakthroughs ASAP.

[SpursforSix]

Ford Survey Finds 90% Of Electric Car Owners Plan To Stick With Electric Drive


A new survey of plug-in hybrid and electric car drivers by Ford Motor Company (http://gas2.org/tag/Ford/) finds that 90% of the 10,000 people surveyed like driving a plug in hybrid or electric car (http://evobsession.com/electric-cars-2014-list/) and have no plans to go back to driving a gasoline-powered car in the future.

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/C-Max-Electric-500x298.jpg (http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/C-Max-Electric.jpg)

Most of those who participated in the survey said that driving an electric car was just a nicer experience that driving a gasoline vehicle. Some of the reasons why this is so include that electric cars are quieter than their gasoline cousins. That seems to lead people to believe they have a smoother, more comfortable ride. Many respondents also singled out environment benefits as a primary motivator for their decision to drive an electric car.

Stephanie Janczak, Ford’s manager of electric vehicle infrastructure and technology, said in a recent interview with CleanTechnica (http://cleantechnica.com/) that most all-electric drivers say they would stay with that type of car in the future while plug-in hybrid (http://evobsession.com/10-best-hybrid-cars/) owners were more inclined to consider switching to an all-electric vehicle (http://evobsession.com/10-best-electric-cars/) for their next vehicle. The driving experience and an appreciation of clean technology were cited by many as the main reasons for staying electric, she said.

http://gas2.org/2015/08/13/ford-survey-finds-90-electric-car-owners-satisfied/

we really need huge battery breakthroughs ASAP.




90% of 10,000 batshit people are still batshit
no surprise

[Wild Cobra]

90% of 10,000 batshit people are still batshit
no surprise

LOL...

Agreed. I don't see hybrids as being beneficial at all. Now I would love to have a Tesla though!

[boutons_deux]

Bosch: 50 kWh Battery, Just 190 Kilograms

The German company Bosch is apparently aiming to, over the coming years, create a 50 kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery for use in electric vehicles that only weighs 190 kilograms, based on recent comments made by a company researcher.

Considering the amount of money that the company is currently pumping into related research — €400 million ($455 million) a year is being put into “electro-mobility” — that goal isn’t exactly surprising, but would be quite a game changer nonetheless.


Dr Thorsten Ochs, head of battery technology R&D at the new Bosch research campus in Renningen, says that to achieve widespread acceptance of electromobility, mid-sized vehicles will need to have 50 kilowatt hours of usable energy.

With conventional lead batteries, this would mean increasing the weight of the battery to 1.9 metric tons, even without wiring and the holder, he notes. Today’s lithium-ion batteries are superior in this respect, storing more than three times the amount of energy per kilogram.

At a weight of 230 kilograms, the battery of a modern-day electric car provides approximately 18 to 30 kilowatt hours.

But to achieve the desired 50 kilowatt hours, a battery weighing 380 to 600 kilograms would be necessary.

Dr Ochs’ goal is to pack 50 kilowatt hours into 190 kilograms. In addition, the researchers are looking to significantly shorten the time a car needs to recharge.

“Our new batteries should be capable of being loaded to 75% in less than 15 minutes,” Ochs says.

According to Ochs, simply improving lithium technology will be enough to achieve these goals. The utilization of lithium in the anode, rather than graphite, would for instance make it possible to greatly increase storage capacity,

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/10/16/bosch-50-kwh-battery-just-190-kilograms/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

50 KwH in 190 Kg would solve a lot of the "range anxiety", but at what price? (and when?)

In any case, Bosch spending $500M plus 100s of other research teams working on new battery tech will undoubtedly produce some fantastic breakthroughs. In not so distant future, the gas/diesel internal combustion engines are going to look incredibly stupid, primitive, expensive, complicated

[DMX7]

LOL...

Agreed. I don't see hybrids as being beneficial at all. Now I would love to have a Tesla though!

Me too. However, the reason Tesla works is not necessarily because it appeals to people's environmental conscience but because it makes good looking, high performance, safe, and unique vehicles that just happen to also save you money on gas. Plus there is a $7500 federal tax credit which helps make it a tab more affordable.

[Wild Cobra]

In any case, Bosch spending $500M plus 100s of other research teams working on new battery tech will undoubtedly produce some fantastic breakthroughs. In not so distant future, the gas/diesel internal combustion engines are going to look incredibly stupid, primitive, expensive, complicated

No matter how much money is spent, it doesn't mean a solution will be found for this goal.

[boutons_deux]

No matter how much money is spent, it doesn't mean a solution will be found for this goal.

.... au contraire, my pathetic little contrarian, there will be multiple solutions to high density, affordable, long-life electrical storage.

and there are 100, if not 1000s, of researchers working on fuel cell improvements

http://gas2.org/2015/10/17/linde-brings-us-fuel-cell-bicycle/

[Wild Cobra]

I'm only saying money doesn't always solve a problem. It may or may not allow that goal to be achieved. To say it will solve the problem with certainty is misguided.

[boutons_deux]

I'm only saying money doesn't always solve a problem. It may or may not allow that goal to be achieved. To say it will solve the problem with certainty is misguided.


what you're saying is that basic research, nano-tech research, physics/chemistry research, prototypes fabrication by 1000s of researchers doesn't take a LOT of $100Ms.

[Wild Cobra]

what you're saying is that basic research, nano-tech research, physics/chemistry research, prototypes fabrication by 1000s of researchers doesn't take a LOT of $100Ms.

LOL...

No, I'm not.

Just that it may or may not give the results they are striving to achieve.

[boutons_deux]

Ford Motor Company Revealed As Funder of Climate Denial Group ALEC

Ford Motor Company, despite its much-hyped commitment to the environment, has been quietly funding the American Legislative Exchange Council (http://ecowatch.com/?s=ALEC) (ALEC), a group widely criticized for its promotion of climate change (http://ecowatch.com/climate-change-news/) denial and for its opposition to the development ofrenewable (http://ecowatch.com/business/renewables/) alternatives to fossil fuels (http://ecowatch.com/news/energy-news/).

A Ford spokesperson, Christin Baker, confirmed the ALEC grant to the Center for Media and Democracy/PRWatch, but said that the funding was not intended to be used by ALEC to block action on climate change.

“Ford participates in a broad range of organizations that support our business needs, but no organization speaks for Ford on every issue. We do not engage with ALEC on climate change,” said Baker.

http://ecowatch.com/2015/11/08/ford-fund-climate-denial-alec/

ALEC is a point man for the VRWC, Ford dude.

NOTHING that ALEC pushes benefits Human-Americans or the environment.

So what ALEC programs does Ford's $Ms support?

[boutons_deux]

A Car Dealers Won’t Sell: It’s Electric

So why are only about 330,000 electric vehicles (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/e/electric_vehicles/index.html?&inline=nyt-classifier) on the road? One answer lies in an unexpected and powerful camp of skeptics: car dealers. They are showing little enthusiasm for putting consumers into electric cars.

Some buyers even tell stories of dealers talking them into gas cars and of ill-informed salespeople uncertain how far the cars can go on a charge or pushing oil changes that the cars do not need. And industry officials themselves acknowledge a hesitancy to sell cars that may not suit drivers’ needs.

In a speech (http://www.autonews.com/article/20150805/OEM02/150809892/consumers-shrug-fuel-efficiency-goals-mcconnell-says) this year, the former chairman of the National Automobile Dealers Association (https://www.nada.org/), a trade group, said that tougher fuel-economy regulations could mean pushing cars on consumers that were about as enticing as broccoli, when they really wanted “low-calorie doughnuts” like fuel-efficient gas cars. The former chairman, Forrest McConnell, cited a survey finding that 14 percent of buyers cited fuel efficiency as the most important factor in buying a car.

Industry insiders and those who follow the business closely say that dealers may also be worrying about their bottom lines. They assert that electric vehicles do not offer dealers the profits that gas-powered cars do. They take more time to sell because of the explaining required, which hurts overall sales and commissions.

Electric vehicles also may require less maintenance, undermining the biggest source of dealer profits: their service departments.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/01/science/electric-car-auto-dealers.html?_r=0

[boutons_deux]

The Big Problem With Electric Cars: They're Too Reliable

A salesperson “can sell two gas burners in less than it takes to sell a Leaf,” he said. “It’s a lot of work for a little pay.”

He also pointed to the potential loss of service revenue. “There’s nothing much to go wrong,” Mr. Deutsch said of electric cars.

“There’s no transmission to go bad.”....Jared Allen, a spokesman for the National Automobile Dealers Association, said there wasn’t sufficient data to prove that electric cars would require less maintenance.

But he acknowledged that service was crucial to dealer profits and that dealers didn’t want to push consumers into electric cars that might make them less inclined to return for service.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/11/big-problem-electric-cars-theyre-too-reliable

[boutons_deux]

Ford to spend $4.5 billion by 2020 on electric vehicles

Fields said 40% of nameplates globally will be electrified by the end of the decade, up from 13% now. They will be a mix of hybrids, plug-in hybrids and full battery-powered electric vehicles.

Among the plans is an update to the Ford Focus electric vehicle coming at the end of 2016 for North America and Europe. It will have an improved range of 100 miles and can reach 80% of its charge in 30 minutes, considered the maximum length of time consumers will easily tolerate.

The current Focus Electric has a range of 76 miles and can be fully charged in 3.5 hours with a 240-volt outlet. Getting to an 80% charge takes about 2.5 hours.

Even with a 100-mile range, it's still a far cry from the Chevrolet Bolt electric car's 200 mile range that General Motors plans to show next month at the 2016 CES electronics show. The Bolt is expected to go on sale in 2017.

Tesla is working on its 200-mile Model 3 electric car, and Audi has an SUV in development for 2018 that aims to travel 300 miles between charges.

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/ford-plans-4.5-billion-investment-in-13-new-electric-vehicle-models-by-2020?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+GreentechMedia+%28Greentech+M edia%29

Somewhat confusingly, all the majors also have FCV projects, prototypes, even production deliveries.

[boutons_deux]

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles Get $35 Million From US Energy Dept.

If you ask the US Energy Department, hydrogen-powered fuel cell electric vehicles are on the verge of a major commercial breakthrough.

You’ll get a somewhat different answer from battery electric vehicle experts, but the fact of the matter is that the Energy Department is going with its gut.

Earlier this year, the agency launched a $35 million round of funding for advancing hydrogen technologies for fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEVs), and last week it doubled down with another $35 million offer covering 4 key areas of interest.

http://cleantechnica.com/2015/12/13/hydrogen-fuel-cell-electric-vehicles-get-35-million-us-energy-dept/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

[boutons_deux]

but what is the eROI ?

Audi creates green 'e-diesel fuel of the future' using just carbon dioxide and water

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/audi-creates-green-e-diesel-fuel-future-using-just-carbon-dioxide-water-1498524



hmm, it looks like VW, etc cheating on diesel emissions puts a huge dent, even destroys, diesel as ever being a clean transport fuel, esp now that EVs and FCVs are approaching.

[Wild Cobra]

hmm, it looks like VW, etc cheating on diesel emissions puts a huge dent, even destroys, diesel as ever being a clean transport fuel, esp now that EVs and FCVs are approaching.
Not true.

e-diesel will be free of imperatives, and burn clean.

[boutons_deux]

Not true.

e-diesel will be free of imperatives, and burn clean.

not true

"Commercially viable E-Diesel ... Laboratory and fieldtests have demonstrated over 41% reduction in PM, 27%reduction in CO, andand 5% reduction in NOx from a HDdiesel engine"

5% ain't much reduction. Overall is cleaner than standard diesel, but not "burn clean" at all.

[Wild Cobra]

not true

"Commercially viable E-Diesel ... Laboratory and fieldtests have demonstrated over 41% reduction in PM, 27%reduction in CO, andand 5% reduction in NOx from a HDdiesel engine"

5% ain't much reduction. Overall is cleaner than standard diesel, but not "burn clean" at all.
That's probably using a non computerized system and no cat.

Link please.

[boutons_deux]

That's probably using a non computerized system and no cat.

Link please.

http://oxydiesel.com/sae2001-01-2475.pdf

[Wild Cobra]

http://oxydiesel.com/sae2001-01-2475.pdf

You are an idiot.

If you read it, and are too stupid to understand it... you are an idiot.

If you were told by some charlatan to parrot what they believed, you are an idiot.

What they are calling e-diesel is not what Audi is making.

You are an idiot!

[boutons_deux]

Audi e-diesel is too complicated.

Once they've split water with renewable energy, stop there, use the hydrogen in FCVs.

Seems really stupid to keep pushing complex, high-maintenance, internal combustion engines, when EVs and FCVs are on the horizon.

and what is the eROI on Audi e-diesel, even if some of the energy in is wind,solar?

[Wild Cobra]

Audi e-diesel is too complicated.

Once they've split water with renewable energy, stop there, use the hydrogen in FCVs.

Seems really stupid to keep pushing complex, high-maintenance, internal combustion engines, when EVs and FCVs are on the horizon.

and what is the eROI on Audi e-diesel, even if some of the energy in is wind,solar?
It's not stupid at all. It all has to do with the density of power. You can hold more power per cubic liter in diesel and per kg than in batteries, or most other fuels.

[boutons_deux]

It's not stupid at all. It all has to do with the density of power. You can hold more power per cubic liter in diesel and per kg than in batteries, or most other fuels.

what is the eROI on Audi e-diesel?

EVs' and FCVs' energy storage and conversion is gonna approach/equal/beat liquid fuel density to a point of irrelevance of energy density, and drive hyper-reliable electric motors, not a complicated internal combustion, polluting engine.

[Wild Cobra]

what is the eROI on Audi e-diesel?

EVs' and FCVs' energy storage and conversion is gonna approach/equal/beat liquid fuel density to a point of irrelevance of energy density, and drive hyper-reliable electric motors, not a complicated internal combustion, polluting engine.

You are right in the short term about reliability. It is correct that the electric motor is more reliable and not polluting. However, batteries, as good as they are, don't have the power density of fuel. They also have a limited half-life, in that after x number of years, they only hold half the charge.

I would have bought a Tesla by now if I wasn't concerned about having to buy a new battery pack every 4-6 years.

As for fuel cell vehicles, I remain skeptical of technology solving it's problems until I am proved wrong otherwise. If we go to fuel cell vehicles, it needs to be with methane or some other more easily compressible fuel. Not hydrogen. Hydrogen is a great way to store energy, but I consider moving hydrogen storage units, at freeway speeds, a greater danger than nuclear power plants.

[boutons_deux]

how much would one spend in gas, oil, internal combustion maintenance, and time lost on all of that, in 4 - 6 years?

you're assuming, wrong as always, that current battery technology (density, charging time, life time, etc) will be the same for future battery technology.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not one to normally go by works outside of of science journals, but since you mention eROI, I searched and found this:

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/jamesconca/files/2015/02/EROI-Book-Figure.jpg (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2015/02/11/eroi-a-tool-to-predict-the-best-energy-mix/)

They claim the eROI must be 7 or more to be viable.

I'm surprised they show nuclear as having a higher eROI than hydro power. This strikes me as giving caution to the accuracy of the article, but then maybe I'm wrong in assuming hydro power is more efficient than nuclear?

Now I am more inclined to believe this paper for a hydro power to nuclear relationship:

http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0301421513003856-gr3.jpg (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421513003856)

I didn't find a link to the eROI of e-diesel, but if it's 15% of the energy is loss like I read to making it, then at best, it's about 16.15, which is better than fuel from fossil fuels like gasoline or diesel with it's required pollution controls.

[Wild Cobra]

how much would one spend in gas, oil, internal combustion maintenance, and time lost on all of that, in 4 - 6 years?

you're assuming, wrong as always, that current battery technology (density, charging time, life time, etc) will be the same for future battery technology.

Wrong.

You are assuming that I am assuming what your confirmation bias tells you.

I love the idea of electric vehicles. I think that is where we are heading in the future. I just don't see it as viable, now. At the same time, I think intermediate steps will be excess wind and solar energy, when supply is greater than demand, will by stored as hydrogen, then used as convention turbine generation or fuels cells for higher demand times.

I don't think eDiesel will develop past a high cost "fad." But it might become another important intermediate step.

At some time in the future, I do expect that both battery technology, and PV cell efficiency will grow to a very viable cost point, severely reducing the demands of fossil fuels.

I don't think that any type of fuel cells will every be cost effective as small units. I see the necessity of zero, or next to zero contamination, in both the air and hydrogen as too costly to achieve. To my knowledge, they have not yet developed a separation membrane that remains viable with contamination.

[boutons_deux]

no natural gas anywhere

Solar-powered hydrogen production with improved efficiency

http://cdn.phys.org/newman/csz/news/800/2015/8-solarpowered.jpg

CPV technology generates electricity by using mirrors or lenses to focus an intense beam of sunlight onto tiny but highly efficient solar cells.

The researchers used the most efficient CPV modules currently available, with an efficiency of around 31%.

They used a InGaP/GaAs/Ge three-junction solar cell at the sunlight focus point inside the CPV.

The EC cells, which provide the means for splitting water (http://phys.org/tags/splitting+water/), were then connected in series to the CPV modules using copper wires.

The team placed their combined device outdoors, and fed pure water into the EC cells. They found that their device was able to produce hydrogen at an efficiency of 24.4% – the highest level of solar-to-hydrogen efficiency yet achieved.

Sugiyama and Fujii believe the direct connection between the high efficiency CPV modules and EC cells optimized the energy (http://phys.org/tags/energy/) transfer from sunlight to hydrogen, and that further improvements of both components and their connecting parts will enhance the efficiency still further.

http://phys.org/news/2015-12-solar-powered-hydrogen-production-efficiency.html

how about "pure water" produced by evaporating/distilling water with concentrated solar?

[CosmicCowboy]

Pure water is always an issue in heat exchange. At least a million a year of my business in service work is directly due to water impurities in the heat exchange process.

[boutons_deux]

Pure water is always an issue in heat exchange. At least a million a year of my business in service work is directly due to water impurities in the heat exchange process.

I saw an article this week that tap water should not be used in humidifiers because the minerals pass through your gut ok, but ionized, they aren't so friendly to lungs. distilled water only in humidifiers.

[boutons_deux]

Germany Mulling €2 Billion Incentives For Electric Cars

Germany is considering providing 2 billion euros to subsidize the purchasing of more electric cars. German Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel is behind the idea (http://www.reuters.com/article/germany-autos-electricity-idUSL8N14X2KD20160113), which also includes adding more EV charging stations and supporting the acquisition of more electric vehicles for federal offices.

One might expect it would be an individual from an environmental government department who came up with such an idea, because electric vehicles are better for the environment, but the German government in general is getting more supportive of EVs. It wants one million of them on the roads by 2020, which is obviously just four years away. (One source estimated (http://insideevs.com/germany-fall-well-short-1-million-electric-car-goal-2020/)that there may be another 950,000 which need to be sold to reach the goal.)

http://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/16/germany-mulling-e2-billion-incentives-for-electric-cars/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

[boutons_deux]

FORD INVESTING $4.5 BILLION IN ELECTRIFIED VEHICLE SOLUTIONS, REIMAGINING HOW TO CREATE FUTURE VEHICLE USER EXPERIENCES


Ford is investing an additional $4.5 billion in electrified vehicle solutions by 2020, including the new Focus Electric with all-new DC fast-charge capability, which delivers 80 percent charge in an estimated 30 minutes and projected 100-mile range

The company is adding 13 new electrified vehicles to its product portfolio by 2020; more than 40 percent of Ford’s nameplates globally will be electrified by the decade’s end
Ford also redefining how future vehicles are created, moving from a features-based product development to a customer-experience-led process, applying insights from social scientists


https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2015/12/10/ford-investing-4-5-billion-in-electrified-vehicle-solutions.html

[boutons_deux]

U.S. to invest billions in self-driving cars

Self-driving cars got a financial shot in the arm from the federal government Thursday, but a new report shows the autonomous vehicles have safety issues that could delay their appearance on U.S. highways by years.

Announcing the Obama administration's pledge to invest nearly $4 billion in autonomous technology over the next decade, Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx (http://www.latimes.com/topic/politics-government/government/anthony-foxx-PEPLT0009022-topic.html) said federal guidelines for autonomous vehicles will be developed with industry members and other stakeholders within six months.

Foxx stressed the importance of safety in a presentation made to attendees of the North American International Auto Show (http://www.latimes.com/topic/business/automotive-industry/north-american-international-auto-show-in-detroit-EVBAE00007-topic.html) in Detroit, asking, "What happens if human error could be eliminated?" But a new report from the California Department of Motor Vehicles suggests that machine error also needs to be eliminated.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-self-driving-cars-20160115-story.html

"next decade"? Repugs are sure to block such funds, in their blatant strategy to fuck up everything they touch.

[ChumpDumper]

I barely see the need for the government to invest at this point.

[boutons_deux]

I barely see the need for the government to invest at this point.

Over those 10 years of govt spending a puny $4B on self-driving cars, the govt will waste 1800 times more, $7T+, on corporate welfare to the corrupt MIC.

[DMX7]

Over those 10 years of govt spending a puny $4B on self-driving cars, the govt will waste 1800 times more, $7T+, on corporate welfare to the corrupt MIC.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[boutons_deux]

Two wrongs don't make a right.

govt investment is not wrong, it's right, with a huge ROI, better than nearly all VCs.

The quicker computers take over driving the sooner 10Ks Americans won't die on the road. Driving is obviously a public health disaster.

[Wild Cobra]

govt investment is not wrong, it's a right, with a huge ROI. The quicker computers take over driving the sooner 10Ks Americans won't die on the road. Driving is obviously a public health disaster.

Go blow someone else.

[boutons_deux]

Chevy Volt Sales Top 100,000, First In US To Reach That Mark

After a strong sales performance in July, the Chevy Volt is now the first car with a plug to sell more than 100,000 vehicles in the US market.

The Nissan LEAF was leading the sales parade in America until the second generation Volt was introduced last last year. Since then, Volt sales have zoomed while LEAF sales has slowed to a crawl.

Ford has enjoyed strong sales of its plug-in hybrid Fusion and C-Max (http://gas2.org/2016/07/30/ford-fusion-energi-bright-spot-green-car-sales/) models this year

http://gas2.org/2016/08/03/chevy-volt-sales-top-100000-first-us-reach-mark/

[boutons_deux]

MIT Proves What We’ve Argued For Years: Range Anxiety Anxiety Is Illogical


http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Car-trip-distance-cumulative.jpg

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/daily-distance-car-distribution_cumulative.jpg

http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Daily-distance-car-distribution.jpg
http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Distance-Distribution-Car-Trips.jpg

http://cleantechnica.com/2016/08/17/mit-proves-weve-argued-years-range-anxiety-anxiety-illogical/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

[ducks]

is this the car in the shop cosmiccowby?

[Wild Cobra]

MIT Proves What We’ve Argued For Years: Range Anxiety Anxiety Is Illogical


Really?

So you think people are OK with plugging it in every day?

[boutons_deux]

U.S. aims to create 48 national EV charging corridors, across 25K miles of highway

The Obama administration announced on Thursday that it will create 48 national charging corridors for electric vehicles, covering off 25,000 miles of U.S. highways running through 35 states. The initiative will include a partnership between 28 states, local utilities, EV charging companies and car makers GM, BMW and Nissan.

Reuters reports (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-electricvehicles-idUSKBN12Y1L3) that the combination of stakeholders is designed to help “jump start” the addition of more EV charging stations into the mix, perhaps accelerating the pace beyond what any individual concern working along would be able to accomplish.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/03/u-s-aims-to-create-48-national-ev-charging-corridors-across-25k-miles-of-highway/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29

The Dems and Repugs aren't "the same". Repugs would never promote such a anti-BigOil/BigAuto strategy.

[MultiTroll]

U.S. aims to create 48 national EV charging corridors, across 25K miles of highway

My understanding is Tesla charging stations only charge Teslas.
Will be int to see where the US national 48 stations are.
Will there be a cost to charge up?

[boutons_deux]

My understanding is Tesla charging stations only charge Teslas.
Will be int to see where the US national 48 stations are.
Will there be a cost to charge up?

yep, it's a stupid, but necessary, phase in the early days. An analogy would be Ford selling cars that could only be fueled by Ford proprietary fuel.

The Tesla-only charging stations are a huge expense for Tesla, but it's the only way their cars can be sold, now.

There has to be Federal regulation defining "generic" (not proprietary) public charging points so all brands of cars can use them, a regulation that would also govern private charging points.

[MultiTroll]

^^ Has Barry stated if the US chargers will cost to charge up?

[boutons_deux]

^^ Has Barry stated if the US chargers will cost to charge up?

Of course, the electricity won't be free. But wind and solar will keep electricity prices down (if the "free market" isn't screwed BigElectricity)

The govt strategy is, as with tax policy, direct, encourage, direct behaviour.

[Wild Cobra]

U.S. aims to create 48 national EV charging corridors, across 25K miles of highway

The Obama administration announced on Thursday that it will create 48 national charging corridors for electric vehicles, covering off 25,000 miles of U.S. highways running through 35 states. The initiative will include a partnership between 28 states, local utilities, EV charging companies and car makers GM, BMW and Nissan.

Reuters reports (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-electricvehicles-idUSKBN12Y1L3) that the combination of stakeholders is designed to help “jump start” the addition of more EV charging stations into the mix, perhaps accelerating the pace beyond what any individual concern working along would be able to accomplish.

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/03/u-s-aims-to-create-48-national-ev-charging-corridors-across-25k-miles-of-highway/?ncid=rss&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Techcrunch+%28TechCrunch%29

The Dems and Repugs aren't "the same". Repugs would never promote such a anti-BigOil/BigAuto strategy.






Did congress say they would approve the spending?

[Wild Cobra]

^^ Has Barry stated if the US chargers will cost to charge up?

And I suspect hew will want gasoline tax dollars be spend for these instead of road repairs... for cars that don't pay fuel tax...

What a fuckwad.

[boutons_deux]

Toyota Dealers Refuse To Sell Prius Prime Electric Car

The Prius Prime is available in all 50 states and deliveries began in all states. Initial deliveries were prioritized for [California and other] ZEV states based on customer demand, but allocation was balanced based on demand among all Toyota sales regions.

“My Toyota dealer told me that they’d heard Toyota would not sell Prius Prime anywhere in the U.S. other than California and New York. She said they were told not to expect any Primes in any foreseeable time frame.”

a customer near Dallas reported being told by the local Toyota dealer,
[I]
The Prius Prime will not be sold by Gulf States Toyota distributor in any of their five-state market. That covers Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana and Mississippi. [The company] will not stock their dealers or allow orders to be taken. Those orders already taken with deposits are canceled and the deposits are to be refunded.

there’s this from a customer who visited a Toyota dealer near Pueblo, Colorado last week and was told by two salesmen that the Prius Prime was only sold in California.

Traditional car dealers just can’t be bothered selling electric cars.

They don’t want their sales staff taking the time to educate customers about the advantages of electric car ownership and sales people are woefully unprepared to talk about them with customers as a result.

Perhaps if Toyota revoked a few dealer licenses on the grounds that the owners are too stupid to be entrusted with such a valuable asset,

http://gas2.org/2017/01/12/toyota-dealers-refuse-sell-prius-prime-electric-car/

[Wild Cobra]

Yawn...

Another fake news story.

Shazbot... You sure are a sucker for fake news...

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/01/13/toyota-prius-prime-buyers-reporting-problems-ordering-dealers/

[boutons_deux]

The Chevy Bolt is electric, but that's not the really good part

It feels just like any other car

The idea was to show reporters how the car can easily meet its EPA-estimated 238-mile range. It did, with room to spare.

That was to be expected of course — but what I really wanted to know was how the Bolt was as a car.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/13/12899752/chevy-bolt-driving-impressions-review

[Fabbs]

Yawn...

Another fake news story.

Shazbot... You sure are a sucker for fake news...

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/01/13/toyota-prius-prime-buyers-reporting-problems-ordering-dealers/
Your posted article doesn't exactly debunk what boots posted.
From the article:
<What’s interesting, though, is that the company apparently didn’t let dealers in non-ZEV states know until very recently that shipments of the Prime were on the way, according to Toyota’s East Coast communications manager, Corey Proffitt. However, the company did reportedly let dealers know that nationwide sales were the plan as long ago as April 2016.>

Since when in the hell does an auto manufacturer not let it's stealerships know exactly when and what cars are coming?
They are usually trying to hype that up at least a year in advance!

[boutons_deux]

Why Apple, Tesla and Google are Fighting for This Rare Metal (http://www.altenergymag.com/news/2017/06/06/why-apple-tesla-and-google-are-fighting-for-this-rare-metal/26445)

There is a massive opportunity for first-in investors in cobalt, as major hedge funds start hoarding the physical metal to gain exposure, and this long-overshadowed resource is poised to be more explosive than lithium.

Analysts are already predicting a 500 percent deficit increase starting next year, and the tight supply figures have caused a panic to breakout.

Major buyers of cobalt now find themselves scrambling to secure new supply, as

hedge funds such as Swiss-based Pala Investments and

China's Shanghai Chaos

start stockpiling the metal because it's a surefire way to gain exposure to the coming price surge.

So far, these hedge funds have scooped up 17 percent of last year's global production.

The electric vehicle (EV) revolution has made cobalt one of the most critical elements of our time.

Cobalt makes up some 35 percent of the lithium-ion battery mix,

but there isn't enough new supply and what does exist flows through a very controversial and uncertain supply chain.

http://www.altenergymag.com/news/2017/06/06/why-apple-tesla-and-google-are-fighting-for-this-rare-metal/26445

and then there could be this non-EV demand

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130802080232.htm

meanwhile, Repugs plans to cut NREL budget dramatically.

[boutons_deux]

Bolt EV beats EPA range, 75-kWh Tesla in Consumer Reports test

The Bolt EV was the only electric car that CR tested that was able to exceed its EPA-estimated electric range.

The Bolt EV achieved 250 miles on a single charge, the longest range of any EV the outlet has tested (https://www.consumerreports.org/2017-chevrolet-bolt/chevrolet-bolt-sets-electric-vehicle-range-record/) to date. Considering the EPA rated the Bolt EV at 238 miles,

CR specifically calls out the Tesla Model S (https://www.cnet.com/products/2016-tesla-model-s/) 75D and the Tesla Model X (https://www.cnet.com/products/2016-tesla-model-x/) 75D.

The Model S reached 235 miles (EPA estimate: 259 miles), while the Model X achieved just 230 (EPA estimate: 257 miles).

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/chevy-bolt-ev-beats-75-kwh-tesla-in-consumer-reports-test/

[ducks]

with gas going up the car would be nice

[ducks]

I can plug it in at my house and now the energy to run my car can come from coal instead of gasoline!

prices will skyrocket when cal refuses to sell gas cars
good thing you bought it now

[boutons_deux]

Electric Car Growth Produces Battery Shortages, Carmakers Can’t Match Production With DemandThe earlier than anticipated onset of successful, fairly affordable, long-range electric vehicle (EV) demand has caught both battery manufacturers and car companies by surprise — even the most bullish of car companies (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/13/tesla-got-burned-by-model-3-reservations-no-semi-repeat-tesla-bankwuptcy-explained-part-1/).Carmakers like GM (https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/chevrolet-bolt-ev-production-increase/), Renault (https://pushevs.com/2018/06/18/renault-zoe-future-production-and-sales-goals/), Hyundai (https://insideevs.com/lg-chem-cant-keep-unexpectedly-high-demand-hyundai-ioniq-electric/), Daimler, BMW, and VW have all seen demand exceed capabilities and expectations, and battery shortages are evident.

in 2017, Hyundai encountered unanticipated demand for the Ioniq EV and was unable to satisfy the demand.

The problem was Hyundai didn’t have enough batteries because LG Chem didn’t have enough batteries.

whenever OEMs tout the ability to quickly ‘increase production’ due to unseen demand (which as we know, rarely ever actually materializes) – without accounting for the fact they don’t have an existing commitment to a 3rd party battery supplier for those cells.”

the increased demand results in delivery delays, as Norwegian customers have experienced with the Kona EV, with its rapid popularity (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/22/hyundai-kona-electric-gets-6969-firm-orders-from-norwegians-in-first-two-weeks/).

they are at the mercy of all their competition — which bids for the same factory output and may delay shipments to Daimler, thus limiting EV volumes. Daimler (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/06/13/catl-eyes-germany-for-new-e1-billion-factory/), BMW (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/07/10/bmw-volkswagen-to-get-ev-batteries-from-catl-factory-in-germany/), VW (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/07/10/bmw-volkswagen-to-get-ev-batteries-from-catl-factory-in-germany/), Nissan (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/12/nissan-renault-make-battery-deal-with-catl-worlds-largest-battery-manufacturer/), Renault (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/05/12/nissan-renault-make-battery-deal-with-catl-worlds-largest-battery-manufacturer/), as well as various Chinese electric car and electric bus (https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/14/top-10-battery-companies-for-chinese-electric-buses/) companies are in competition for cells from CATL.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/12/electric-car-growth-produces-battery-shortages-carmakers-cant-match-production-with-demand/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+IM-cleantechnica+%28CleanTechnica%29

[Incel]

If fossil fuels are so bad then why did God let Adam ride velociraptors in Eden?

[boutons_deux]

The World's Cobalt Supply Is In Jeopardy

https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Fgreatspeculations%2Ffiles%2F20 18%2F02%2FCOMM-cobalt-prices-continue-to-surge-on-electric-car-demand-02232018-e1519770241913.jpg


https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2018/02/27/the-worlds-cobalt-supply-is-in-jeopardy/#7b805641be58

[Winehole23]

"We’re looking at creating a housing compound on site at the Gigafactory, using kind of high-quality mobile homes."http://www.thedrive.com/news/24163/tesla-looks-to-expand-gigafactory-with-proposed-employee-housing-compound

[boutons_deux]

http://www.thedrive.com/news/24163/tesla-looks-to-expand-gigafactory-with-proposed-employee-housing-compound

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5VMZqgVzRo

[boutons_deux]

Texas is trying to block Tesla from even servicing its cars in direct sale battle with car dealers (https://electrek.co/2019/03/16/tesla-service-ban-texas/)

the automaker’s situation is becoming even more precarious in the state as a new bill that could block them from even servicing their cars is being introduced.

a free market issue as car dealers appear to be using the law to protect themselves from competition and create a monopoly.

Texans have bought thousands of Tesla vehicles, which the automaker delivers from other states to comply with the law.

Tesla has been able to service those vehicles through its own service centers, which are not subject to those same direct-sale rules,

but now dealers are even going after Tesla’s right to service its cars.

Republican Senator Kelly Hancock introduced a new bill (SB 1415) that would ban Tesla from servicing its cars through its own service centers if it gets through the legislature.

https://electrek.co/2019/03/16/tesla-service-ban-texas/

:lol shit hole Texas never disappoints

[boutons_deux]

Europe is beating the US in the battery race—with China’s help

In the race to make more batteries, Europe is beating the US with a little help from China.

An analysis (https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/europe-set-to-race-past-us-in-battery-manufacturing#gs.t8fhln) of announced and committed investments shows that, by 2023, Europe will have more lithium-ion battery (https://qz.com/guide/batteries/) manufacturing capacity than the US.

Europe is expected to increase its lithium-ion capacity from 18 GWh today—enough to make 300,000 fully electric vehicles (EVs)—to 198 GWh in the next four years.

The US is only expected to grow its capacity to 130 GWh in the same period.

And neither region will beat China, which is expected to reach 800 GWh by then.

in just a decade, the US lost the pole position to China and will soon lose second place to Europe. How did that happen?

China’s lead is easier to explain ...

Between 2009 and 2018, the national and local governments went on to provide as much as $60 billion (https://www.csis.org/analysis/chinas-risky-drive-new-energy-vehicles) in direct and indirect subsidies, creating an industry that now manufactures and sells more than 1 million EVs each year.

Since 2017, the US government under Donald Trump has done little (https://qz.com/1641261/tesla-annual-meeting-elon-musks-optimism-versus-share-price-realities/) to support its electric-car industry, which continues to rely heavily on the success of Tesla (https://qz.com/1674199/teslas-losses-are-piling-up-despite-record-sales/).

https://qz.com/1679138/europe-is-beating-the-us-in-the-battery-race-with-chinas-help/amp/ (https://qz.com/1679138/europe-is-beating-the-us-in-the-battery-race-with-chinas-help/amp/)

[CosmicCowboy]

Texas is trying to block Tesla from even servicing its cars in direct sale battle with car dealers (https://electrek.co/2019/03/16/tesla-service-ban-texas/)

the automaker’s situation is becoming even more precarious in the state as a new bill that could block them from even servicing their cars is being introduced.

a free market issue as car dealers appear to be using the law to protect themselves from competition and create a monopoly.

Texans have bought thousands of Tesla vehicles, which the automaker delivers from other states to comply with the law.

Tesla has been able to service those vehicles through its own service centers, which are not subject to those same direct-sale rules,

but now dealers are even going after Tesla’s right to service its cars.

Republican Senator Kelly Hancock introduced a new bill (SB 1415) that would ban Tesla from servicing its cars through its own service centers if it gets through the legislature.

https://electrek.co/2019/03/16/tesla-service-ban-texas/

:lol shit hole Texas never disappoints

Teslas warranty specifically says if anyone other than tesla does the service it will potentially void the warranty.

[RandomGuy]

Teslas warranty specifically says if anyone other than tesla does the service it will potentially void the warranty.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/8/9/20767886/renewable-energy-storage-cost-electricity

(One interesting possibility: there are going to be gigawatts worth of discarded electric-vehicle batteries soon, each with energy capacity remaining. There are efforts afoot to bundle them together as grid storage, with potentially extremely low LCOSE. An area to watch.)

levelized cost of energy storage (LCOSE)

[boutons_deux]

Trump is trying to kill electric cars but will kill jobs and the climate instead

The global electric car boom can't be stopped, but Trump policies would insure U.S. workers miss out on it.

Two new analyses from Bloomberg this week make clear

just how bad President Donald Trump’s policies are for the domestic electric car market and U.S. workers.

In the first report,

Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) explains that

Trump’s plan to roll back Obama-era fuel efficiency and emissions standards for vehicles would eliminate any federal requirement for carmakers to build electric vehicles (EVs).

BNEF also explains that the deal Ford, Honda, Volkswagen, and BMW struck (https://thinkprogress.org/carmakers-join-californias-push-for-fuel-efficiency-in-blow-against-trump-administration-86005ce8cd28/) with California last week to avoid the full rollback will not undo most of the damage.

In the second,

BNEF concluded that the rapid price drops in the cost of batteries that have driven the energy storage and EV revolutions this decade will continue for the next decade.

while Trump can slow adoption of high-efficiency EVs in the United States, other countries — the E.U. and especially China — will simply keep adopting them so quickly that he cannot stop the global EV revolution.

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-is-trying-to-kill-electric-cars-but-will-kill-jobs-and-the-climate-instead/ (https://thinkprogress.org/trump-is-trying-to-kill-electric-cars-but-will-kill-jobs-and-the-climate-instead/)

So Trash is doing favors for BigAuto (removing pressure to go electric) and BigOil (keeping burning it)

[boutons_deux]

TRUMP ADMINISTRATION KILLED A SELF-DRIVING CAR COMMITTEE — AND DIDN’T TELL MEMBERS

An all-star team of transpo bigwigs had just one meeting before the DOT went radio silent

Trump administration quietly terminated an Obama-era federal committee on automation in transportation earlier this year, the Department of Transportation confirmed to The Verge this week. What’s more, the DOT never informed some members that the advisory group didn’t exist anymore, including

Captain Chesley “Sully” Sullenberger,
Zipcar founder Robin Chase,
Apple vice president Lisa Jackson, and
even the committee’s own vice chair,

The committee’s dissolution comes at a critical moment in the development of automated vehicles in the United States.

During the two-plus years that it sat dormant, multiple companies (https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/5/18126103/waymo-one-self-driving-taxi-service-ride-safety-alphabet-cost-app) have rolled out small commercial fleets (https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18681891/dominos-nuro-driverless-pizza-delivery-houston) of automated vehicles that perform a variety of tasks (https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/8/18656364/amazon-delivery-robot-scout-training-test-prototype-virtual-simulation-ai). Big money is pouring into (https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/18/18507049/uber-atg-self-driving-autonomous-car-investment-softbank-toyota-denso) some of the most visible companies (https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/7/18535194/gm-cruise-self-driving-car-investment-valuation) in the space.

The Advisory Committee on Automation in Transportation was announced in early January 2017 (http://web.archive.org/web/20190401132006/https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot0717) as part of Barack Obama’s :lol OF COURSE! :lol

larger federal automated vehicle policy (https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/19/12984028/president-obama-self-driving-car-rules).

It consisted of an all-star cast of

25 executives,
professors, and
politicians from across (and even outside) the transportation world,
like General Motors CEO Mary Barra,
Waymo CEO John Krafcik,
Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti,
Lyft co-founder John Zimmer, and
oft-cited industry experts like Duke’s Mary “Missy” Cummings, and
the University of South Carolina’s Bryant Walker Smith.

“to serve as a critical resource for the Department [of Transportation] in framing federal policy for the continued development and deployment of automated transportation,” according to its landing page on the DOT’s website (https://www.transportation.gov/acat).

The Trump administration has distanced itself from many policies implemented by the previous administration, and

the DOT referenced the rewrite of Obama-era guidance on automated vehicles in an explanation for why it dissolved the committee.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20791454/trump-obama-autonomous-self-driving-car-group-apple-zipcar-uber-lyft (https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/9/20791454/trump-obama-autonomous-self-driving-car-group-apple-zipcar-uber-lyft)

If Obama did it, Trash must destroy it, no matter what the cost now or later.

[RandomGuy]

I can plug it in at my house and now the energy to run my car can come from coal instead of gasoline!


The 2019 Los Angeles Auto Show Goes Electric

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/2019-los-angeles-auto-show-electric?mbid=synd_yahoo_rss

:lol Coal.

Here is a post that didn't date well.

[CosmicCowboy]

The 2019 Los Angeles Auto Show Goes Electric

https://www.architecturaldigest.com/gallery/2019-los-angeles-auto-show-electric?mbid=synd_yahoo_rss

:lol Coal.

Here is a post that didn't date well.

CPS gets 20% of its electricity from coal burning power plants.

[CosmicCowboy]

A typical coal fired power plant gets 37% thermal efficiency. Figure another 50% transmission loss to your home and plugging in your coal fired EV is belching shitloads of CO2 and SO2.

[boutons_deux]

A typical coal fired power plant gets 37% thermal efficiency.

which is about the same an ICE, so driving full electric is a pollution winner.

[RandomGuy]

CPS gets 20% of its electricity from coal burning power plants.

When you posted that the figure was 34%, and peaked in roughly 2012 at 51%, meaning each new installed MW has reduced that carbon intensity.
https://cpsenergy.com/content/dam/corporate/en/Documents/Finance/2012_CPSEnergy_Annual_Report.pdf (pg 15)

Wind is now cheaper than coal, meaning that the liklihood of them retiring one of their aging plants and replacing that with distributed wind purchase from ERCOT is pretty high.

Your assertion, while still techinically true, now needs to be qualified, due to the overall reduction in carbon intensity.

Here is your critical thinking question for the day:

What is the CO2 footprint for each mile driven between a gas powered car, and that of a Volt, powered by the mix of electricity of CPS?

The problem with conservative thinking... it doesn't take new data well. The world has changed. Either you can adjust your thinking, or... have your worldview not accurately represent reality.

[RandomGuy]

which is about the same an ICE, so driving full electric is a pollution winner.

Hard to say without crunching the numbers., but you seem to have arrived at what I was driving at (HA) above. It is ascertainable using the available data though. Be interesting to see what comes out of that calculation.

[boutons_deux]

Hard to say without crunching the numbers., but you seem to have arrived at what I was driving at (HA) above. It is ascertainable using the available data though. Be interesting to see what comes out of that calculation.

In any case, AGW catastrophe is current, not "we must avert it" bullshit from scammers.

The planet's economy runs on carbon energy, and that can't be eliminated or even reduced significantly

Anyway, the atmosphere is already damaged for 100s of years to come with AGW GHG.



How does humanity "fix" the GHG atmosphere?

[CosmicCowboy]

When you posted that the figure was 34%, and peaked in roughly 2012 at 51%, meaning each new installed MW has reduced that carbon intensity.
https://cpsenergy.com/content/dam/corporate/en/Documents/Finance/2012_CPSEnergy_Annual_Report.pdf (pg 15)

Wind is now cheaper than coal, meaning that the liklihood of them retiring one of their aging plants and replacing that with distributed wind purchase from ERCOT is pretty high.

Your assertion, while still techinically true, now needs to be qualified, due to the overall reduction in carbon intensity.

Here is your critical thinking question for the day:

What is the CO2 footprint for each mile driven between a gas powered car, and that of a Volt, powered by the mix of electricity of CPS?

The problem with conservative thinking... it doesn't take new data well. The world has changed. Either you can adjust your thinking, or... have your worldview not accurately represent reality.

Not running from your question, just don't have any data to make that calculation. BTW, I have nothing against alternative energy sources to fossil fuels...I put solar panels on my SA house years ago so fuck you and your arrogant "conservative worldview not representing reality" bullshit.

[boutons_deux]

Greenhouse gas concentrations in atmosphere reach yet another high
https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/greenhouse-gas-concentrations-atmosphere-reach-yet-another-high (https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/greenhouse-gas-concentrations-atmosphere-reach-yet-another-high)

[boutons_deux]

Worst GHG now as bad as 3M years ago

Climate Change Is Accelerating:

‘Things Are Getting Worse’

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/04/climate/climate-change-acceleration.html?te=1&nl=morning-briefing&emc=edit_NN_p_20191204&section=topNews?campaign_id=9&instance_id=14260&segment_id=19269&user_id=992d608214b505003aa04bf10a595031&regi_id=80821797tion=topNews

[RandomGuy]

Not running from your question, just don't have any data to make that calculation. BTW, I have nothing against alternative energy sources to fossil fuels...I put solar panels on my SA house years ago so fuck you and your arrogant "conservative worldview not representing reality" bullshit.

It might surprise you to learn that when the brain is confronted by information that contradicts its worldview, it triggers the same "fight or flight" mechanism that a physical threat would.

Either you adopt new information into your worldview, or not. "Conservative" thinking, by definition, tends not to do so. I was speaking more generally than specifically about you. Incorporating new information is a matter of personal responsibility. I leave that to you.

Not saying you are running from your question either.

You need:

Current CO2 intensity per MW. Then figure out how much electricity the car uses per mile. Divide CO2 intensity by this amount. This will get you your CO2 intensity per mile driven figure for an electric car.

Then simply compare that to the CO2 intensity of a standard passenger vehicle.

You can find the data for all of this. I may work the problem at some point, although I would rather spend my lunch hour figuring out how to build a heat exchanging aquatuner for my favorite phsyics based game. (Oxygen not included).

As for your "put solar panels on my SA house": so what? seriously don't see how that makes you any kind of expert, or, for that matter, not vulnerable to the kinds of ossified thinking I was talking about.