Put Kobe on the Spurs and Manu on the Lakers

[JayTheClown]

Who is favorite to win a championship? You pair Manu with Gasol and Artest or you pair Kobe with Tony Parker and Tim Duncan. Who has the better team? I'm not asking if it is possible (not discussing contracts) and I fully understand it would never happen. Just answer the fucking question.

[BanditHiro]

the lakers manu is the spurs best player and they are trading him for the laker's sidekick

[tdunk21]

lakers

[JayTheClown]

the lakers manu is the spurs best player and they are trading him for the laker's sidekick

Interesting logic, but if Kobe goes on the Spurs he is no longer a sidekick. Maybe he returns to his old form with a better cast around him. Which brings me to another question. Would the Spurs be a better cast?

[SourCandy]

Wow hard question. id go with lakers either way :)
it's a steal for the lakers however kobe is older.

[Killakobe81]

LOL at the responses to this question. Bill simmons can be an idiot, but if you use his if a trade was offered who would hang up first? It would be the Lakers. Thing is i think if manu had the touches Kobe had or the freedom to shoot more he would not be as good as kobe but would be regarded even more highly than he is now ...

[HarlemHeat37]

Lakers would still be better..

Kobe is obviously a better player by a good margin, but he would have a much tougher time fitting in with the Spurs than Ginobili would with the Lakers IMO..they would both be fine in their new places, since they both have high basketball IQ and work hard, but the transition for Ginobili would be easier IMO..

Kobe would have to build chemistry with Tony Parker, which is difficult to do..there's a huge difference between a ball-dominant PG and a shooter/role player like Derek Fisher..

Kobe wouldn't have an elite perimeter defender to mask him on D if he was with the Spurs..there's no Artest to allow him to conserve his energy..

The Spurs rely on the 3-point shot, particularly Manu's, and Kobe is no longer a 3-point shooter..

Kobe has never played extended NBA minutes at a high level without the triangle offense, so even though he's a legendary player, it would take him time to adjust, just like it would for any other player..

[JayTheClown]

Lakers would still be better..

Kobe is obviously a better player by a good margin, but he would have a much tougher time fitting in with the Spurs than Ginobili would with the Lakers IMO..they would both be fine in their new places, since they both have high basketball IQ and work hard, but the transition for Ginobili would be easier IMO..

Kobe would have to build chemistry with Tony Parker, which is difficult to do..there's a huge difference between a ball-dominant PG and a shooter/role player like Derek Fisher..

Kobe wouldn't have an elite perimeter defender to mask him on D if he was with the Spurs..there's no Artest to allow him to conserve his energy..

The Spurs rely on the 3-point shot, particularly Manu's, and Kobe is no longer a 3-point shooter..

Kobe has never played extended NBA minutes at a high level without the triangle offense, so even though he's a legendary player, it would take him time to adjust, just like it would for any other player..

Nice :lobt2:

[Koolaid_Man]

Lakers would still be better..

Kobe is obviously a better player by a good margin, but he would have a much tougher time fitting in with the Spurs than Ginobili would with the Lakers IMO..they would both be fine in their new places, since they both have high basketball IQ and work hard, but the transition for Ginobili would be easier IMO..

Kobe would have to build chemistry with Tony Parker, which is difficult to do..there's a huge difference between a ball-dominant PG and a shooter/role player like Derek Fisher..

Kobe wouldn't have an elite perimeter defender to mask him on D if he was with the Spurs..there's no Artest to allow him to conserve his energy..

The Spurs rely on the 3-point shot, particularly Manu's, and Kobe is no longer a 3-point shooter..

Kobe has never played extended NBA minutes at a high level without the triangle offense, so even though he's a legendary player, it would take him time to adjust, just like it would for any other player..


tell me about Lebron....and his extended minutes....he still fighting the coach for playing too much?

[DAF86]

tell me about Lebron....and his extended minutes....he still fighting the coach for playing too much?

Why you mad? He's saying that your team would still be better.

[ElNono]

Obviously the Mavs would still be the better team...

[Killakobe81]

Lakers would still be better..

Kobe is obviously a better player by a good margin, but he would have a much tougher time fitting in with the Spurs than Ginobili would with the Lakers IMO..they would both be fine in their new places, since they both have high basketball IQ and work hard, but the transition for Ginobili would be easier IMO..

Kobe would have to build chemistry with Tony Parker, which is difficult to do..there's a huge difference between a ball-dominant PG and a shooter/role player like Derek Fisher..

Kobe wouldn't have an elite perimeter defender to mask him on D if he was with the Spurs..there's no Artest to allow him to conserve his energy..

The Spurs rely on the 3-point shot, particularly Manu's, and Kobe is no longer a 3-point shooter..

Kobe has never played extended NBA minutes at a high level without the triangle offense, so even though he's a legendary player, it would take him time to adjust, just like it would for any other player..

Great post it's almost like the "old" Harlem was back at least for a moment ...

I dis agree with one thing though ithink you put Kobe with duncan (and this no knock on Manu) it would re-energize duncan. the chance to play the Pau or Shaq role (even though both have lost a step) to Kobe would bring out th best in timmy ...

[Killakobe81]

Plus, LOL at kobe adjusting to tony, tony would have to adjust more Im sure Pop would work a lot of two man stuff between Kobe and tim in that scenario ...

[IronMexican]

I'd take the Lakers in both matchups.

[SpursDynasty85]

Spurs easy. Kobe Bryant is a top 5 player still and would shine in the spurs system. Tony Parker is a ball dominant pg, but the system he runs forces him to pass to the open man and Kobe is very adept at getting open. Now with Tony parker and Tim Duncan pnr to distract defenders, Kobe will have an easier time finding clever ways to score. Plain and simple Parker/Bryant/Duncan and rest of crew >>>>>> what the lakers would have.

[Killakobe81]

Spurs easy. Kobe Bryant is a top 5 player still and would shine in the spurs system. Tony Parker is a ball dominant pg, but the system he runs forces him to pass to the open man and Kobe is very adept at getting open. Now with Tony parker and Tim Duncan pnr to distract defenders, Kobe will have an easier time finding clever ways to score. Plain and simple Parker/Bryant/Duncan and rest of crew >>>>>> what the lakers would have.

This.

[ezau]

The margin between Manu and Kobe is closer than most people think. Kobe is surely the more explosive scorer, but Manu is the superior playmaker.

I would really think that Manu will shine in the triangle offense because of his ability to pass and create.

[monosylab1k]

lololol Lakers would be maybe the 6th best team in the West if that happened.

[Pelicans78]

If this trade happened, I would definitely go with the Celtics.

[Killakobe81]

The margin between Manu and Kobe is closer than most people think. No it is not, but Manu is still great.

Kobe is surely the more explosive scorer, but Manu is the superior playmaker.

disgaree. Manu is the more unselfish player ... but Kobe is the better play-maker.

I would really think that Manu will shine in the triangle offense because of his ability to pass and create.

The last part i agree with ... Manu would be a great triangle PG ...or wing player

[LoneStarState'sPride]

The margin between Manu and Kobe is closer than most people think. Kobe is surely the more explosive scorer, but Manu is the superior playmaker.

I would really think that Manu will shine in the triangle offense because of his ability to pass and create.

This.

[Koolaid_Man]

Why you mad? He's saying that your team would still be better.


that bitch a Ho and a straight fraud and he knows that I know that he knows it...

[Koolaid_Man]

the lakers manu is the spurs best player and they are trading him for the laker's sidekick


I suspect that Duncan would get more assist....he definitely wouldn't be trailing Kobe by almost 2000 assists then...

[DAF86]

lololol Lakers would be maybe the 6th best team in the West if that happened.

Then they would go on to the beat the 3rd seed Mavs in the first round.

lol Mavs

lol first round exits as 1st and 2nd seeds

[ChrisRichards]

As of this point, Manu is the best SG in the league statistically.




The Lakers will be a far, far, FAR better team if they have Manu and that's not to discredit Kobe Bryant or say that Manu is a better individual player than. Manu is just a coach's dream. He finishes well, he's unselfish and he's one of those rare athlete that can help swing a momentum into his teams favor.


I think if Manu is with the Lakers, other players like Odom, Bynum & Gasol would flourish even more.

[BanditHiro]

I suspect that Duncan would get more assist....he definitely wouldn't be trailing Kobe by almost 2000 assists then...

doubt it since mr 6-24 would miss most of the shots duncan would set up for him.

[SpursDynasty85]

Kobe is surely the more explosive scorer, but Manu is the superior playmaker.

What is the point of making a play? ... To score! Kobe is the better playmaker. Kobe never really had a finisher he could pass to. Now that he has Gasol, everyone got to see his play making abilities and he was awarded the MVP.


The Lakers will be a far, far, FAR better team if they have Manu and that's not to discredit Kobe Bryant or say that Manu is a better individual player than. Manu is just a coach's dream. He finishes well, he's unselfish and he's one of those rare athlete that can help swing a momentum into his teams favor.


Hes way more inconsistent than Kobe. Kobe would improve the Spurs more than Manu would improve the Lakers. Pop wouldn't think twice to trade for Kobe.

[TE]

Manu is a better playmaker than Kobe, but Kobe is the better individual player.


Which is why the Lakers would flourish. Just imagine manu running the show with Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Fish, and all the other role players from the Lakers. It would be showtime once again.

[namlook]

This thread is so full of nonsense and delusion I don't even l don't where to start, so I won't beyond this...

Pop would trade Manu for Kobe in a heartbeat and Phil would never do that trade if each of their goals was to win a championship. That's not to say that Manu is a better individual player....:lmao

[Killakobe81]

This thread is so full of nonsense and delusion I don't even l don't where to start, so I won't beyond this...

Pop would trade Manu for Kobe in a heartbeat and Phil would never do that trade if each of their goals was to win a championship. That's not to say that Manu is a better individual player....:lmao

That is what i said too ...Phil (mitch) hang up the phone and laugh ...
As much as manu is loved in SA, the spurs say yes and would arrange a first class flight for manu to L.A. ...

[ezau]

I'm still going with my assertion earlier that Manu would make all the role players of the Lakers better.

Kobe is just so talented individually that even if decides to hog the ball, the Lakers are still able to win it.

Personally, I would have been up to this trade five or six years ago when Kobe is hands down the better player.

Just like Kobe, Manu has become the Spurs' main man. They're essentially 1a and 1b in the West as far as SGs go.

At this point though, the difference between Kobe and Manu has become irrelevant. I agree that Kobe is still a better player, but Manu is not that far behind.

At this point in their careers, both have stopped relying on their athleticism. These guys are getting by with skills, experience, and basketball IQ.

The thing about Manu is that he'll be able to fit in almost any kind of system you'll put him in.

In Kobe's case, you need to make sure that he still gets the touches and he remains the main man so he can stay motivated.

[hater]

This thread is so full of nonsense and delusion I don't even l don't where to start, so I won't beyond this...

Pop would trade Manu for Kobe in a heartbeat and Phil would never do that trade if each of their goals was to win a championship. That's not to say that Manu is a better individual player....:lmao

you are delusional too if you think Pop would trade Manu for Kobe in a heartbeat. Especially given the way they are playing this season. It would be stupidity.

Both sides would never make that trade but the questions is what if they did.

forgive me but Manu + Gasol is > Kobe + Duncan at this point. may God forgive me.

that advantage plus Phil Jackson + David Stern, would take the lakers slightly ahead.

in the end it's not whos is better Kobe or Manu. It's who is teaming up with a prime Gasol.

[Mike-in-brazil]

thats a niceeeeeee one two punch kobe and tim..
Lakers would still win.
bench....D...size...age

most of the spurs productive players are 30 and up...come playoffs ..when u gota beat the same team serveral times..gets tougher and teams are all playing about 70-80% health....

[Cry Havoc]

The main thing that separates Kobe from Manu in my opinion is durability.

I mean, come on. How scary would Manu be if he played every game all season long for 35+ minutes? Kobe is a better player, but Manu is one of the most effective players in NBA history when he's on the floor. His stats per minute when healthy are Jordan-esque.

He's just aging and he has been hurt a lot in the past. Kobe's had understandably a better career, but even most Lakers fans would say that a healthy, rested, driven Manu is on a tier with Kobe, Durant, and any other top player.


forgive me but Manu + Gasol is > Kobe + Duncan at this point. may God forgive me.

Uhhh, lately I would take a lot of bigs over Gasol. Lately, I would take Brendan freaking Haywood over Pau Gasol. Dude has lost his mojo.

[cheguevara]

most of the spurs productive players are 30 and up... come playoffs ..when u gota beat the same team serveral times..gets tougher and teams are all playing about 70-80% health....

:lmao

Gasol, Kobe, Odom, Artest, Fisher = all over 30

Epic fail

[Fpoonsie]

No Laker fan would say that. Manu is a decent role player, but you trying to compare a top 5 player against a role player that's not even on the radar.

I actually agree, to an extent. I think he's better than just a simply role player, but he's not on Kobe's level. In top player polls, Manu typically gets rated in the top 20 or so, but I think it has a lot to do w/ how the offense is spread out in the Spurs system. With the way he plays, reckless abandon and whatnot, his durability would prolly quickly become an issue if he was called upon to take the team on his back, day in, day out.

[cheguevara]

a top 5 player

not anymore :nope

they are very comparable as of right now

[Cry Havoc]

No Laker fan would say that. Manu is a decent role player, but you trying to compare a top 5 player against a role player that's not even on the radar.

If the MVP voting were held today, Manu would probably be 3rd or 4th. Kobe would be lucky to be in the top 8.

[Fpoonsie]

Stop reaching, poon. Kobe has been, and is still better than Manu at every aspect of the game. It's not even close.

Uhhh...I'm agreeing with you, more or less.

[Mike-in-brazil]

:lmao

Gasol, Kobe, Odom, Artest, Fisher = all over 30

Epic fail


take everyone 30 and up off lakers and spurs.....we would murder u all....
Lakers can rest their 30 year olds during the season spurs cant !!!!

think b4 u type!!! or go pull some wish bones !!!

[Fpoonsie]

Lakers can rest their 30 year olds during the season spurs cant !!!!

Odd...considering the Spurs franchise big and foundation for their success is averaging a career low in minutes/game.

[cheguevara]

take everyone 30 and up off lakers and spurs.....we would murder u all....

Brown
vujabitch
Evans
caracter
Bynum

vs.

Parker
Hill
Anderson
Blair
Splitter

:lmao

Epic Fail again!

[Barfunk]

thats a niceeeeeee one two punch kobe and tim..
Lakers would still win.
bench....D...size...age

most of the spurs productive players are 30 and up...come playoffs ..when u gota beat the same team serveral times..gets tougher and teams are all playing about 70-80% health....


:bang :wakeup :nope hmmmmmm..... lets see here......

Lakers main core ages:

Avg age: 30

1.Croby Bryant - 32
2.Kung Pow Gasol - 30
3.Lamar Odem - 31
4.Shannon Brown - 25
5.Ronnie Test - 31
6.Derek Fisherman - 36
7.Mateo Barney - 30
8.Stevie Ray Blake - 30
9.Brynam - 23

Spurs main core ages:

Avg Age: 28

1.Manuel Gino - 33
2.Rony Parko - 28
3.Ritchie JefferSanfordandSon - 30
4.Tim Meh Blumpkin - 34
5.Whore-Heh Hell - 24
6.Matthew Milkboner - 30
7.Road Blair - 21
8.Railroad Trax - 26
9.Master Splinter- 25
10.James Anderson - 21
11.Roll the Dice - 36

Edit: Forgot Dice on Spurs and Bynum on Lakes.

Not far off but the Lakers are older. The media always seem to turn the cheek about the Lakers and Celtics age.

[Cry Havoc]

Manu wouldn't even get a vote in my book. But look who's 8th.:lol

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/12/03/race-to-mvp-week-6/index.html

You're better off spamming the board with worthless drivel. Continue on...

Do you really want to post an article about the MVP that has Dwight Howard as the favorite in a way that says you agree with said article?

[Mike-in-brazil]

Brown
vujabitch
Evans
caracter
Bynum
e.banks

vs.

Parker
Hill
Anderson
Blair
Splitter

:lmao

Epic Fail again!

include all!!!! and to make it fair u can even date back last 4 seasons...
we still Win oh ok i stand corrected we wont kill...
but were is my epic fail ? we still win the series..

[cheguevara]

include all!!!! and to make it fair u can even date back last 4 seasons...
we still Win oh ok i stand corrected we wont kill...
but were is my epic fail ? we still win the series..

disagree.

Spurs backcourt Parker/Hill > Lakers

Spurs bigmen Blair/Splitter > lakers

how do you win? we still have Neal waiting in the bench, you have nothing :rollin

[Rummpd]

Kobe (5th) and Manu (7th) are both top ten ranked players by Hollinger's efficiency standard and Manu is signficantly outshooting Kobe this

year.http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

Kobe is the far more accomplished and acclaimed player but this year Manu has been often playing on a plane with him, has been in a statistical measure more clutch (no surprise there go to 5 year trends in NBA: http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/11/05/clutch.numbersgame/index.html
Manu is the TRUE Mr. CLUTCH; Manu earned this rank a over 5 year period and Kobe was not even top ten (athough he is when all is said and done, he may not be the true Mr. Clutch but he is Manu's league in that, and last year he was so clutch over and over again for the LAL).


This year by any measure and the "eyeball" test Manu he has definetely been more clutch than Kobe (Manu's plays in a number of wins near the end this year have been brilliant and he single handily willed them to several wins so far) and at times has been better overall as Kobe was not shooting well sitting around 42% for much of the early season. Also, recall that Manu also had a month last year near the end when he was arguebly the best guard in all of basketball.



Tough call although I have always wanted to see how the combo of Duncan and Kobe would have played together for a season. Their games are a perfect match to complement each other and in their primes they would have been even stronger than Shaq/Kobe or Gasol/Kobe especially defensively.

The trio of Kobe/Manu and Duncan would be the best ever period and would still smoke James/Wade and Bosh day in and day out.

Force me to choose and I would have to still trade for Bryant for his historic upside when he is on; but only for next year as I want to see this Spurs team take out the Lakers in the West this season as composed and don't bet against them!:flag:

[Barfunk]

It's very, very, simple....

Manu: 20.1ppg, 3.6reb, 5.1ast, 2.0 Stls, 45% FG, 38% 3P on 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA

Kobe: 26.6ppg, 5.4reb, 4.5ast, 1.2 Stls, 44% FG, 30% 3P on 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA

So of course Kobe is "better", but I wonder what Ginobili's stats would look like if he had now or in the past, the green light to take 20-25 shots per game. I'm assuming that Manu's stats would become scrub like? Please do the maff.

[Cry Havoc]

Stop reaching, poon. Kobe has been, and is still better than Manu at every aspect of the game. It's not even close.


Manu: 20.1ppg, 3.6reb, 5.1ast, 2.0 Stls, 45% FG, 38% 3P on 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA

Kobe: 26.6ppg, 5.4reb, 4.5ast, 1.2 Stls, 44% FG, 30% 3P on [B]21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA[/B

Luva getting owned again, as usual. :lmao

I bolded the areas where each player is producing more than the other.

Also might want to point out that Manu is clearly the better free throw shooter as well, 91% this year.

[dirk4mvp]

The margin between Manu and Kobe is closer than most people think.

that's the most retarded thing I've read on ST. Congrats.

[Rummpd]

that's the most retarded thing I've read on ST. Congrats.

and you are an idiot if you do not believe that - see my post again, Manu has been the true Mr. Clutch in the NBA most of the last decade and in player efficiency is right there with Bryant and is right now outplaying him in many categories.

don't let the media blind you to the facts, Manu is on a plane with Kobe right now and may be slightly better.
That being said I would still take Kobe for at his best he is singularily brilliant but Manu is not far behind.

[dirk4mvp]

manu > = Kobe

got it :tu

[Barfunk]

that's the most retarded thing I've read on ST. Congrats.


It's very, very, simple....

Manu: 20.1ppg, 3.6reb, 5.1ast, 2.0 Stls, 45% FG, 38% 3P on 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA 13 FGA

Kobe: 26.6ppg, 5.4reb, 4.5ast, 1.2 Stls, 44% FG, 30% 3P on 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA 21 FGA

So of course Kobe is "better", but I wonder what Ginobili's stats would look like if he had now or in the past, the green light to take 20-25 shots per game. I'm assuming that Manu's stats would become scrub like? Please do the maff.


manu > = Kobe

got it :tu

whyyyyyy dooooooooooot

[dirk4mvp]

the spurs just win, we don't care about stats.

[Rummpd]

Dear Dallas Fan:

Sorry about the idiot language I also feel by the way that Dirk is also under-appreciated and is the MVP IMO this year and is IMO is in the conversation for not only the greatest NBA player ever to not win a title and there have been a bunch (Charles B., Ewing, Stockton, Malone but Dirk is 7 feet and can shoot over anyone and is simply very, very talented, but also probably the 2nd best greatest international player ever (Hakeem is my choice but Dirk has a strong arguement with weaker for Nash or Manu - but put the Virgin Islands Duncan, granted as a stretch and that is helluva starting 5 with "outside the USA roots").

Put Dirk with either Manu or Kobe and he would have had a title by now easily.

[Cry Havoc]

manu > = Kobe

got it :tu

He didn't say Manu was greater than or equal to Kobe. He said that instead of Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Manu it's more like Kobe > Manu or >> Manu.

And this season, I don't know how you could even say that. If Kobe's been better, it's been by the slimmest of margins, if at all. Manu with 20+ shots per game would probably be averaging 30 points.

[Cry Havoc]

Real talk, all bullshit aside. If the Spurs man up and show up to the WCF's this year, and both Kobe and Manu are healthy, would you refuse a trade for Kobe for Manu for that one series.

Actually, I think both teams would be worse if that trade went down. The Spurs need Manu's intelligence and his hustle. They benefit a lot from him working into the rotation. The Spurs are 18-3 right in no small part due to the fact that they have any number of weapons that can due damage in short order. Hell, even Bonner has looked scary at times this year. Manu is fantastic to work in that system, because he doesn't need the ball in his hands to do damage.

Meanwhile, Kobe is perhaps the most perfect fit for the Lakers imaginable. They have a couple of other excellent players in Odom and Gasol, but not a lot of players who can reliably create for themselves. Kobe steps up and takes shot after shot, night after night. I seriously think that before ever game starts, Kobe thinks he's going to go 25-25 with 7 triples.

Bring Kobe into the Spurs and I think you disrupt the natural chemistry and rhythm of the offense... not to mention a group of guys that love playing together. I also think that Manu is better at intangibles than Kobe, like drawing charges, or creating havoc in passing lanes. Manu is a complement to the Spurs because he helps the team in every area that's needed or that we would otherwise be sub-par at. He's streaky, more so than Bryant, but he's also efficient as hell, when healthy.

Put Manu on the Lakers and suddenly there's a lot of stress on players who aren't used to stepping up to shoot more. Fisher would need to be consistently great, not just a guy who picks his nights to be clutch, which he's unbelievable at doing, a la Horry. Odom would have to be a go-to guy more often, especially if Manu's guarding someone tough and expending more energy on D. I don't think the Lakers, especially sans Bynum, have the talent to get quality looks without Kobe on the court.

If you're referring to on paper, yes, I would definitely consider the trade. But in reality, I think both teams benefit more from having the guy they have. As good as Kobe is, I can't imagine the Spurs without Manu, I feel like we would somehow have a drastic fall-off in a perhaps undefinable area of our game.

[urunobili]

Stop the nonsense Dirk + Manu >>>>>>> TD + Kobe or Gasol + Kobe

[namlook]

Actually, I think both teams would be worse if that trade went down. The Spurs need Manu's intelligence and his hustle. They benefit a lot from him working into the rotation. The Spurs are 18-3 right in no small part due to the fact that they have any number of weapons that can due damage in short order. Hell, even Bonner has looked scary at times this year. Manu is fantastic to work in that system, because he doesn't need the ball in his hands to do damage.

Meanwhile, Kobe is perhaps the most perfect fit for the Lakers imaginable. They have a couple of other excellent players in Odom and Gasol, but not a lot of players who can reliably create for themselves. Kobe steps up and takes shot after shot, night after night. I seriously think that before ever game starts, Kobe thinks he's going to go 25-25 with 7 triples.

Bring Kobe into the Spurs and I think you disrupt the natural chemistry and rhythm of the offense... not to mention a group of guys that love playing together. I also think that Manu is better at intangibles than Kobe, like drawing charges, or creating havoc in passing lanes. Manu is a complement to the Spurs because he helps the team in every area that's needed or that we would otherwise be sub-par at. He's streaky, more so than Bryant, but he's also efficient as hell, when healthy.

Put Manu on the Lakers and suddenly there's a lot of stress on players who aren't used to stepping up to shoot more. Fisher would need to be consistently great, not just a guy who picks his nights to be clutch, which he's unbelievable at doing, a la Horry. Odom would have to be a go-to guy more often, especially if Manu's guarding someone tough and expending more energy on D. I don't think the Lakers, especially sans Bynum, have the talent to get quality looks without Kobe on the court.

If you're referring to on paper, yes, I would definitely consider the trade. But in reality, I think both teams benefit more from having the guy they have. As good as Kobe is, I can't imagine the Spurs without Manu, I feel like we would somehow have a drastic fall-off in a perhaps undefinable area of our game.

There's no way in hell the Spurs get worse swapping Manu out for Kobe. That's preposterous. People always talk like this when Manu goes on a good run and plays well. He is a streak player who plays great for a certain stretch of games but he can't sustain it. Inevitably his play declines. This is why he has one all-star appearance in his career. He also plays limited minutes - almost always under 30 minutes a game each season. He played 31 minutes a game one season and the next season his body completely broke down with one injury after another. He can't log big minutes like the superstars and keep playing well and that's one of the big differences between Manu and guys like Kobe and Wade. Lets have this discussion again when Manu goes through his dry spell. We will stop seeing these threads when that happens.

[namlook]

on, I don't know how you could even say that. If Kobe's been better, it's been by the slimmest of margins, if at all. Manu with 20+ shots per game would probably be averaging 30 points.

What so many people don't seem to understand is Manu is not a guy who can play heavy minutes, taking 20+ shots a game for a season and be effective. He plays under 30 minutes a game for his career for a reason. Manu could never be a superstar workhorse like Kobe and Wade have been. He can't physically handle that workload.

[Cry Havoc]

Your lack of understanding of the game and great players is on display here. Great players fit in any system. It doesn't matter what offense, or coach. It doesn't matter what teammates they have, or city they play in. Manu is a great role player. Kobe is a great player, period. If you put Kobe with Shaq, Pau, or Smush Parker, he remains the same, a great player. What doesn't he do in big games? He'll rebound for you, he'll lead you in scoring, he'll guard the other teams best player. His play in the Olympics was a perfect example of the ultimate team player that was willing to play any role, and yet still be recognized as a great player.

Manu on the other hand is not a player that teams have to plan for. In most cases, he's been the Spurs 3rd best player. Adding him to the Lakers would instantly make the Lakers a worse team. It has nothing to do with systems because both of these guys have proven they can play in different systems. Teams fear Kobe, just ask Pop. There are times I don't even know Manu is on the court. You all would love to give the Spurs recent success to Manu, yet he's only doing what he's always done but never got credit for it in the past. Since Duncan's numbers are in the dump, it's convenient to prop up someone else. The Spurs are playing good team ball, and taking advantage of scrub teams... plain and simple.

You put Kobe on the Spurs and they become a better team. You put Manu on the Lakers, and they are not contenders.

Interesting logic. Why did I not hear of the 2004 Lakers going 76 and 6, and sweeping their way through the playoffs? Why are the Heat not undefeated right now? Great players make great teams, right? 4 Hall of Famers should never lose a game playing together. It just isn't possible according to your above statement.

Oh. That's right. Because basketball isn't just about numbers, and your generalizations are completely and totally wrong. I fully admitted there's a chance Kobe makes the Spurs better. That said, it's far from a certainty, especially considering he's been a far less efficient scorer this year.

[Drachen]

Reading this thread (after sifting through the BS in it) is very interesting. About half this thread seems to be an honest to goodness basketball conversation. My opinion has already been expressed by others, and I think the best take comes from Cry Havoc (at least the one I agree with the most), but I am more impressed by the fact that it seems that at least 50% of this thread is a decent basketball conversation. That is probably a record for this forum over the past year and a half or so. Amazing.

[Drachen]

Then why didn't you let it continue instead of bringing your worthless, shitty ass take.

I addressed the thread topic, I am sorry you disagree. Maybe you would have a better time in the troll forum. There is a password there so you can talk to your hearts content about whatever non-basketball related stuff it is you try to spout out here, and I won't be there to ruin it for you. I don't have the password so I won't even be able to see it.

[Cry Havoc]

Me personally, I'd never consider Payton a great player.

1999-2000 Season
Gary Payton - 24.2 points, 6.5 rebounds, 8.9 assists, 1.9 steals, 2.7 turnovers, 45% from the field, 34% from three.

2010-2011 Season
Kobe Bryant - 26.2 points, 5.4 rebounds, 4.5 assists, 1.2 steals, 3.0 turnovers, 44% from the field, 30.5% from three.

I'll let your statement speak for itself. Payton was 31 when he was putting up these numbers.

[silk]

Guys, ya really need to get a life.........

[SpursDynasty85]

There may have been 10 supertars in the history of the league.


You mean the players that are only recognized by people who look like this---- > http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=11493&dateline=1277142264 (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11493)?:lmao

[ALVAREZ6]

I honestly think the Lakers would be better. Manu would make the Lakers more efficient, wouldn't jack the amount of shots Kobe does yet still score just about in the same point range in playoff scenarios. He would also create more on the Lakers as Fisher isn't much of a PG, just a big douche, and he'd find that great Laker bench and role players open all day long. Manu + triangle offense with the Lakers squad would be retarded deadly.

[ALVAREZ6]

Plus, Manu + Gasol could communicate openly on the court in Spanish, directing eachother what to do and the opponents would be clueless.

Oh...actually, it would honestly be smart for the Lakers to trade whatever necessary from their roster to get Manu, without sacrificing Gasol and Bryant. The use of of Spanish + Italian on the court...they'd be unbeatable.

[DAF86]

Your lack of understanding of the game and great players is on display here. Great players fit in any system. It doesn't matter what offense, or coach. It doesn't matter what teammates they have, or city they play in. Manu is a great role player. Kobe is a great player, period. If you put Kobe with Shaq, Pau, or Smush Parker, he remains the same, a great player. What doesn't he do in big games? He'll rebound for you, he'll lead you in scoring, he'll guard the other teams best player. His play in the Olympics was a perfect example of the ultimate team player that was willing to play any role, and yet still be recognized as a great player.

Manu on the other hand is not a player that teams have to plan for. In most cases, he's been the Spurs 3rd best player. Adding him to the Lakers would instantly make the Lakers a worse team. It has nothing to do with systems because both of these guys have proven they can play in different systems. Teams fear Kobe, just ask Pop. There are times I don't even know Manu is on the court. You all would love to give the Spurs recent success to Manu, yet he's only doing what he's always done but never got credit for it in the past. Since Duncan's numbers are in the dump, it's convenient to prop up someone else. The Spurs are playing good team ball, and taking advantage of scrub teams... plain and simple.

You put Kobe on the Spurs and they become a better team. You put Manu on the Lakers, and they are not contenders.

lol complaining about "lack of understanding of the game" and then saying something like that.

[ALVAREZ6]

Your lack of understanding of the game and great players is on display here. Great players fit in any system. It doesn't matter what offense, or coach. It doesn't matter what teammates they have, or city they play in. Manu is a great role player. Kobe is a great player, period. If you put Kobe with Shaq, Pau, or Smush Parker, he remains the same, a great player. What doesn't he do in big games? He'll rebound for you, he'll lead you in scoring, he'll guard the other teams best player. His play in the Olympics was a perfect example of the ultimate team player that was willing to play any role, and yet still be recognized as a great player.

Manu on the other hand is not a player that teams have to plan for. In most cases, he's been the Spurs 3rd best player. Adding him to the Lakers would instantly make the Lakers a worse team. It has nothing to do with systems because both of these guys have proven they can play in different systems. Teams fear Kobe, just ask Pop. There are times I don't even know Manu is on the court. You all would love to give the Spurs recent success to Manu, yet he's only doing what he's always done but never got credit for it in the past. Since Duncan's numbers are in the dump, it's convenient to prop up someone else. The Spurs are playing good team ball, and taking advantage of scrub teams... plain and simple.

You put Kobe on the Spurs and they become a better team. You put Manu on the Lakers, and they are not contenders.
:lmao:rollin:lol:lol:rollin:lmao


You really love to contradict yourself, don't you?

LMAO, in response to the bold, were you not aware that Manu has won on every level he's ever played? He's won championships in the NBA, in Italy, different cities, different teams, and oh yeah since you brought up the Olympics for Kobe, I'll continue with Manu's side: winning gold in 2004 Olympics, beating Team USA relatively single-handedly. If that performance was one of a role player, then I guess Kobe for most of his career has been the inactive man on the practice squad, using the transitive property from your stupid ass logic.

You're a fuckin moron dude, stick to trolling since it's all you know...but it's also a shame you're apparently failing at that :lol

[LeCrab]

rofl laker fans

manu lead his team to a gold medal..... kobe was the 5th option on his gold medal team....

[ALVAREZ6]

If Manu hasn't demonstrated he can succeed where ever he plays, then no one has.

[Koolaid_Man]

Who is favorite to win a championship? You pair Manu with Gasol and Artest or you pair Kobe with Tony Parker and Tim Duncan. Who has the better team? I'm not asking if it is possible (not discussing contracts) and I fully understand it would never happen. Just answer the fucking question.


Pop would shit himself if he could get Kobe for Manu...Ask the NBA players what they think...oops I think that's already been done and the answer was and still is Kobe Bryant...don't make me repost that shit please..you a day late and a dollar short.:lol

[namlook]

Plus, Manu + Gasol could communicate openly on the court in Spanish, directing eachother what to do and the opponents would be clueless.



It's already being done.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/Kobe-Gasol-Habla-Espanol-On-Court.html

Pau Gasol (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/topics?topic=Pau+Gasol) was raised in Spain (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/topics?topic=Spain). Kobe Bryant (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/topics?topic=Kobe+Bryant) speaks fluent Spanish.
So when Kobe wants to tell Gasol to slip a pick or some other strategy on the court without anyone else noticing, then ellos hablan Espanol (http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/090305practicereport.html).


(http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/Kobe-Gasol-Habla-Espanol-On-Court.html)

[ALVAREZ6]

It's already being done.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/Kobe-Gasol-Habla-Espanol-On-Court.html

Pau Gasol (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/topics?topic=Pau+Gasol) was raised in Spain (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/topics?topic=Spain). Kobe Bryant (http://www.nbclosangeles.com/topics?topic=Kobe+Bryant) speaks fluent Spanish.
So when Kobe wants to tell Gasol to slip a pick or some other strategy on the court without anyone else noticing, then ellos hablan Espanol (http://www.nba.com/lakers/news/090305practicereport.html).


(http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/Kobe-Gasol-Habla-Espanol-On-Court.html)
:tu

[Cry Havoc]

:lmao:rollin:lol:lol:rollin:lmao


You really love to contradict yourself, don't you?

LMAO, in response to the bold, were you not aware that Manu has won on every level he's ever played? He's won championships in the NBA, in Italy, different cities, different teams, and oh yeah since you brought up the Olympics for Kobe, I'll continue with Manu's side: winning gold in 2004 Olympics, beating Team USA relatively single-handedly. If that performance was one of a role player, then I guess Kobe for most of his career has been the inactive man on the practice squad, using the transitive property from your stupid ass logic.

You're a fuckin moron dude, stick to trolling since it's all you know...but it's also a shame you're apparently failing at that :lol

:tu

If Manu is a role player, then Kobe is a glorified volume shooter.

[poop]

Pop would play Kobe only 10-15 minutes a game in order to keep Bonner on the floor.

[Cry Havoc]

Pop would play Kobe only 10-15 minutes a game in order to keep Bonner on the floor.

Why? Bonner could always play the 3 while Pop sticks Kobe at the 4.

[wijayas]

As of this point, Manu is the best SG in the league statistically.




The Lakers will be a far, far, FAR better team if they have Manu and that's not to discredit Kobe Bryant or say that Manu is a better individual player than. Manu is just a coach's dream. He finishes well, he's unselfish and he's one of those rare athlete that can help swing a momentum into his teams favor.


I think if Manu is with the Lakers, other players like Odom, Bynum & Gasol would flourish even more.

:toast