What in the World Are They Spraying?

[Parker2112]

What is your take on chemtrails? :stirpot:

And I promise not to use the sheeple word. :lol

ngYTQIiprbA

[Wild Cobra]

Truth Media...

I stopped there and made this reply. If you want to be taken serious, you need to lay off the conspiracies.

[Parker2112]

You dont have to watch to have an opinion on chemtrails.

[Parker2112]

chemtrails aren't conspiracy. they are a man-made phenomena. everybody knows that.

[Wild Cobra]

You dont have to watch to have an opinion on chemtrails.
Such collages of videos are a joke. You can make things say anything that way. Contrails dissapate at various rates depending on temerature, wind movement, and humidity. Just because some remain for long times is meaningless. Those perpetrating such ideas as proof of chemtrails are either lying, or ignorant.

Ever see how aerial earth maps are made? I'll bet every time a plane travels back and forth in the sky over a city, making maps, it's another "proof" that chemicals are being dispersed in the atmosphere.

[Wild Cobra]

chemtrails aren't conspiracy. they are a man-made phenomena. everybody knows that.
LOL...

Only those indoctrinated or brain washed know such things.

[Parker2112]

thanks for your take :tu

[xeromass]

They're called contrails outside of mental institutions .

[Wild Cobra]

They're called contrails outside of mental institutions .
Ditto.

[Parker2112]

anyone with a set of eyes who has lived more than 20 years knows the makeup of "contrails" these days is not just condensation.

I have seen distinct X's and Z's cross from horizon to horizon over hours and hours without losing thickness or form. WC, you know enough about the subject to know thats impossible. just sayin.

But Im not really here to convince. Just wondering about the prevailing opinions here at ST is all.

[Wild Cobra]

anyone with a set of eyes who has lived more than 20 years knows the makeup of "contrails" these days is not just condensation.

I have seen distinct X's and Z's cross from horizon to horizon over hours and hours without losing thickness or form. WC, you know enough about the subject to know thats impossible. just sayin.

But Im not really here to convince. Just wondering about the prevailing opinions here at ST is all.
You should study topics like clouds, humidity, due points, effects of temperature, etc. the various things about atmospheric sciences that determine how long water vapor persists in different states.

Tell me, if a small cloud remains for several hours, it it made of chemtrails?

[Parker2112]

Catch up on the subject. Geo-engineering is a buzz word in the Obama administration. And the US refuses to foreclose its right to do so.

http://www.suite101.com/content/dec-2010---chemtrails-over-victoria-bc-after-un-ban-a316910

[ChumpDumper]

lol looking at Xs and Zs in the sky for hours.

[DarrinS]

Parker,

You might be interested in this.

w3qFdbUEq5s

[Wild Cobra]

Catch up on the subject. Geo-engineering is a buzz word in the Obama administration. And the US refuses to foreclose its right to do so.

http://www.suite101.com/content/dec-2010---chemtrails-over-victoria-bc-after-un-ban-a316910
Just because people want to do it, doesn't mean it's happening.

I would love to have sex with Shania Twain. That doesn't mean I did, or ever will.

[Wild Cobra]

Parker,

You might be interested in this.

w3qFdbUEq5s

Careful...

He might not know about that one yet.

[Yonivore]

What in the world are they spraying?

H2O

[Parker2112]

Let this weather guy fill you in.

y7Gw5Wmtu-8

Let the former USDA Crop Inspector fill you in:

S-hm54CP4xA

News station finds Barium in water sample following chemtrails sighting.

okB-489l6MI

Here is some more for fun.

Y_W7WETYoqA

U9NKvT7Iuhg

[Parker2112]

They evidently exist to the United States Government. Wake the fuck up, fools! :lol





HR 2977 IH
107th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 2977
To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
October 2, 2001


Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned

A BILL

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.



This Act may be cited as the `Space Preservation Act of 2001'.
SEC. 2. REAFFIRMATION OF POLICY ON THE PRESERVATION OF PEACE IN SPACE.



Congress reaffirms the policy expressed in section 102(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 (42 U.S.C. 2451(a)), stating that it `is the policy of the United States that activities in space should be devoted to peaceful purposes for the benefit of all mankind.'.
SEC. 3. PERMANENT BAN ON BASING OF WEAPONS IN SPACE.



The President shall--




(1) implement a permanent ban on space-based weapons of the United States and remove from space any existing space-based weapons of the United States; and





(2) immediately order the permanent termination of research and development, testing, manufacturing, production, and deployment of all space-based weapons of the United States and their components.

SEC. 4. WORLD AGREEMENT BANNING SPACE-BASED WEAPONS.



The President shall direct the United States representatives to the United Nations and other international organizations to immediately work toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing a world agreement banning space-based weapons.
SEC. 5. REPORT.



The President shall submit to Congress not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and every 90 days thereafter, a report on--




(1) the implementation of the permanent ban on space-based weapons required by section 3; and





(2) progress toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing the agreement described in section 4.

SEC. 6. NON SPACE-BASED WEAPONS ACTIVITIES.



Nothing in this Act may be construed as prohibiting the use of funds for--




(1) space exploration;





(2) space research and development;





(3) testing, manufacturing, or production that is not related to space-based weapons or systems; or





(4) civil, commercial, or defense activities (including communications, navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote sensing) that are not related to space-based weapons or systems.

SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.



In this Act:




(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.





(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:







(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--










(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;











(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;











(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or











(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.









(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--










(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);











(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or











(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.







(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--







(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;








(ii) chemtrails;








(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;








(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;








(v) laser weapons systems;








(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and








(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.






(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.

[jack sommerset]

Parker, could fluoride in the water cause that rainbow?.

[Wild Cobra]

Funny thing is sciences like this:

Influence of Cosmic Rays on Earth's Climate (hep.physics.indiana.edu/~rickv/quarknet/article2.pdf)

The persistence of clouds change with cosmic rays. Contrails are the results of H2O being formed as the fuel burns. Planes fly at high altitudes, like 30,000 ft+, and it's not only damn cold, low pressure. Things change from year to year.

Not saying this is the reason, but it could be why we see more than before. Over about the last 10 years or so, the cosmic radiation from the sun has increased since solar storms have decreased.

[Wild Cobra]

Parker, could fluoride in the water cause that rainbow?.
That's got to be it!

[Wild Cobra]

They evidently exist to the United States Government. Wake the fuck up, fools! :lol
Why don't you wake up, fool:
Sponsor: Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. [OH-10] (introduced 10/2/2001) Cosponsors (None)

ALL ACTIONS (http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:HR02977:@@@X):

10/2/2001:
Referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.
10/2/2001:
Referred to House Science

10/4/2001:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics.

10/2/2001:
Referred to House Armed Services

12/6/2001:
Executive Comment Requested from DOD.
4/19/2002:
Unfavorable Executive Comment Received from DOD.

10/2/2001:
Referred to House International Relations
That was the end of it.

[Parker2112]

you understand that what you have just presented undermines the plausibility that chemtrails dont exist, right?

You understand that this was an admission by a member of Congress that the activity is real, right?

WC, I KNOW you know better. I KNOW it.

[Parker2112]

Kucinich tried to stop the activity. DOD nipped that shit in the bud. Thats all I need to know WC.

[Wild Cobra]

Kucinich tried to stop the activity. DOD nipped that shit in the bud. Thats all I need to know WC.
If it was a bill dealing with only the one topic, then I would agree.

Did you count how many things were in that list?

[Wild Cobra]

Besides, it is completely unconstitutional. Congress cannot dictate the presidents actions!

[Parker2112]

A lil' mo on the subject.





Rep Kucinich Rewrites HR 2977 -
'Chemtrails' Disappear
By Lorie Kramer
[email protected]
1-27-2

The "Space Preservation Act of 2001" originally introduced in the House by Rep. Dennis Kucinich as HR 2977 has been re-written. The new, revised bill, HR 3616, "Space Preservation Act of 2002" was introduced January 23, 2002. Re-writing bills is a common enough practice as a bill goes through the legislative process. However, the differences between HR 2977 and HR 3616 are more than just a few tweaks here or there. By its conspicuous appearance in 2977, the term 'chemtrails' received a form of credibiity within the official government process never seen before...producing the hope that one courageous Representative had finally had the fortitude to take the issue of chemtrails to a level of Congressional scrutiny long overdue. Even though chemtrails are sprayed/deployed in the 2-6 mile high range, and not the 60 mile altitude stated in 2977, the simple fact of their inclusion in Kucinich's 2977 list of weapons systems was deemed a major breakthrough by tens of thousands of citizens and researchers across the country who have been monitoring and investigating the spraying going on in the skies of America for the past three years. In Rep. Kucinich's revised new (some woud say 'emasculated') Bill, HR 3616, there is no longer any mentio whatever of: * chemtrails, * particle beams * electromagnetic radiation * plasmas * extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation * or mind-control technologies as weapons systems covered in the measure. In fact, 'Exotic Weapons' - as boldly-stated in HR 2977 - are not even mentioned in HR 3616. So, what happened here? Did someone have a 'friendly chat' with Rep. Kucinich? Did the Congressman inhale a bit too much aluminum during his morning job? Did he look up one day and find himself standing under a big 'X' and feel his knees get a little wobbly? As stated in Kucinich's first version of his "Space Preservation Act of 2001" - "The term 'exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space." Apparently Rep. Kucinich is no longer concerned about the effects of the testing and use of exotic weapons systems on natural ecosystems and living organisms on the planet. Although chemtrails are no longer stated as a weapons system, or even mentioned in HR3616, the question of the components of the RFMP / VTRPE warfare system is raised. HR 3616 states - "To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by prohibiting the basing of weapons in space and the use of weapons to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit, and for other purposes." The intent of this passage remains fuzzy. Example: Are Imaging satellites used with the RFMP / VTRPE system broadly defined as part of a weapons system ? HR 3616 further states - "The terms 'space-based weapon' and 'space-based system' mean a device capable of damaging or destroying an object or person by directing a source of energy against that object or person." The word "directing" is clearly the key. Strictly speaking, the RFMP system does, by imaging, provide information to direct a source of energy against that particular object or person HR3616 also says - "4) civil, commercial, or defense activities (including communications, navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote sensing) that are not related to space-based weapons or systems." They could say the RFMP is not a weapon - it does not "fire a bullet," but it is part of a weapons system. There are clearly serious issues of definition in Kucinich's new Bill. It is conceivable that the RFMP / VTRPE weapons system may fall in the area covered by HR3616. It remains a mystery as to how the word 'chemtrails' appeared in HR 2977 to begin with. Investigation into that point is ongoing. Who actually is authoring the text of these bills? Why such an emphasis on "exotic weapons" in HR 2977 but then nothing mentioned about them in HR 3616?

[Parker2112]

I KNOW you know better, WC. You know how the military works better than most.

[Wild Cobra]

Why don't you do your own research on a topic instead of being a lemming?


ALL ACTIONS:

1/23/2002:
Referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.
1/23/2002:
Referred to House Science

1/28/2002:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Space and Aeronautics.

1/23/2002:
Referred to House Armed Services

2/13/2002:
Executive Comment Requested from DOD.

1/23/2002:
Referred to House International Relations

Can you show me where it mentions chemtrails please:


H.R.3616 -- Space Preservation Act of 2002 (Introduced in House - IH)

HR 3616 IH

107th CONGRESS

2d Session

H. R. 3616

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by prohibiting the basing of weapons in space and the use of weapons to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

January 23, 2002

Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned

A BILL

To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by prohibiting the basing of weapons in space and the use of weapons to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Space Preservation Act of 2002'.

SEC. 2. REAFFIRMATION OF POLICY ON THE PRESERVATION OF PEACE IN SPACE.

Congress reaffirms the policy expressed in section 102(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 (42 U.S.C. 2451(a)), stating that it `is the policy of the United States that activities in space should be devoted to peaceful purposes for the benefit of all mankind.'.

SEC. 3. BAN ON BASING OF WEAPONS IN SPACE AND THE USE OF WEAPONS AGAINST OBJECTS IN SPACE IN ORBIT.

The President shall--

(1) implement a ban on space-based weapons of the United States and the use of weapons of the United States to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit; and

(2) immediately order the termination of research and development, testing, manufacturing, production, and deployment of all space-based weapons of the United States.

SEC. 4. INTERNATIONAL TREATY BANNING SPACE-BASED WEAPONS AND THE USE OF WEAPONS AGAINST OBJECTS IN SPACE IN ORBIT.

The President shall direct the United States representatives to the United Nations and other international organizations to immediately work toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing an international treaty banning space-based weapons and the use of weapons to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit.

SEC. 5. REPORT.

The President shall submit to Congress not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and every 6 months thereafter, a report on--

(1) the implementation of the ban on space-based weapons and the use of weapons to destroy or damage objects in space that are in orbit required by section 3; and

(2) progress toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing the treaty described in section 4.

SEC. 6. SPACE-BASED NONWEAPONS ACTIVITIES.

Nothing in this Act may be construed as prohibiting the use of funds for--

(1) space exploration;

(2) space research and development;

(3) testing, manufacturing, or production that is not related to space-based weapons or systems; or

(4) civil, commercial, or defense activities (including communications, navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote sensing) that are not related to space-based weapons or systems.

SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.

(2) The terms `space-based weapon' and `space-based system' mean a device capable of damaging or destroying an object or person (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--

(A) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object or person;

(B) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object or person;

(C) directing a source of energy against that object or person; or

(D) any other undeveloped means.

[Parker2112]

it doesnt mention chemtrails cuz the word was redacted after DOD told Kucinich that refraining from chemtrail activity was not an option. The new bill left out any mention. Follow?

Read that article above. explains it all.

[Parker2112]

actually I was going to thank you for the find. :tu

[ChumpDumper]

lol chemtrails

[RandomGuy]

What is your take on chemtrails? :stirpot:



http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Chemtrails


Chemtrails are the conspiracy and cranks claim that aircraft contrails are a form of chemical dispersal by which the government is attempting to poison people from above. This is a relatively recent conspiracy theory, having reached its peak in the 1990s, but is still going strong despite the evidence for the conspiracy being laughably lacking.

There are stupid conspiracy theories, and there are stoopid conspiracy theories.

This is one of the latter, akin to flouride "makin' ya docile".



Contrails are formed when hot high-pressure jet exhaust gases mix with rarefied cool air. In a process similar to cloud formation, the water present in the jet exhaust freezes quickly, forming a white haze. Since this process generally completes several hundred feet behind the aircraft, passengers on commercial airliners typically do not see contrails forming, giving weight to the claim that "chemtrails" only come from special military aircraft. Commercial planes also, of course, don't have windows that face the rear.

Note that contrails are different than the grayish "vapor trails" sometimes seen when flying low with flaps extended. These are formed of liquid water from compression of moist air under the wing.

On days when cirrus cloud formation is occurring, there is more moisture in the upper atmosphere, and consequently, contrails may linger longer before evaporating. Since cirrus clouds often precede a general overcast or haze, the casual observer could easily assume that the contrails have caused the overcast, or become the overcast.

In the event that an aircraft is flying directly away from the setting or rising sun, the contrail may cause a spectacular crepuscular ray, known in chemtrail jargon as the "black ray", which has a sinister appearance. Basically, part of the contrail is lit, and part is in shadow. It's not evil, it's the Law of Shadows.

[RandomGuy]

Kucinich tried to stop the activity. DOD nipped that shit in the bud.

Please provide proof of that assertion other than a youtube video.

[RandomGuy]

Kucinich tried to stop the activity.

Here is the first logical failing.

You have here some very obvious circular logic, in which the statement assumes its own premise.

Namely, you imply "the activity exists because Kucinich tried to stop the activity".

If Mr. Kucinich tried to stop the slaughter and canning of unicorn meat (http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/12/02/humorless-german-customs-officials-seize-fake-canned-unicorn-meat/) would that logically imply that unicorns exist to be canned?

[Wild Cobra]

it doesnt mention chemtrails cuz the word was redacted after DOD told Kucinich that refraining from chemtrail activity was not an option. The new bill left out any mention. Follow?

Read that article above. explains it all.
How do I know the ramblings of someone creating the story are the real reasons?

Again, the bill includes several items.

You can assume what ever you want, but you have no facts.

[Wild Cobra]

Parker...

It's pretty bad when Random and I agree....

[Parker2112]

Here is the first logical failing.

You have here some very obvious circular logic, in which the statement assumes its own premise.

Namely, you imply "the activity exists because Kucinich tried to stop the activity".

If Mr. Kucinich tried to stop the slaughter and canning of unicorn meat (http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/12/02/humorless-german-customs-officials-seize-fake-canned-unicorn-meat/) would that logically imply that unicorns exist to be canned?

it exists because I can see it. nothing more.

[TeyshaBlue]

it exists because I can see it. nothing more.

Chemtrails or contrails? Which do you see?

[TeyshaBlue]

And let's further define chemtrails before WC gets stuck in a syntax-loop.:lol

Atmospheric seeding is well known...is this a chemtrail activity?

[RandomGuy]

it exists because I can see it. nothing more.

So if I showed you a picture of canned unicorn meat, you would think it exists?

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/frontsquare/e5a7_canned_unicorn_meat.jpg

[RandomGuy]

And let's further define chemtrails before WC gets stuck in a syntax-loop.:lol

Atmospheric seeding is well known...is this a chemtrail activity?

I agree.

Parker812, please define "chemtrails". What exactly do you mean by it?

[Wild Cobra]

I agree.

Parker812, please define "chemtrails". What exactly do you mean by it?
Well, I knew he wasn't referring to cloud seeding. Now when he brings up some of the tings he does.

I live a few miles SE of the Portland Airport. I see these contrails all the time.

[RandomGuy]

Well, I knew he wasn't referring to cloud seeding. Now when he brings up some of the tings he does.

I live a few miles SE of the Portland Airport. I see these contrails all the time.

I think he means it in the sense that the government is dosing us with chemicals against our will and without our knowledge.

Whether he means it seriously, or is just tweaking our collective noses with something just for the fun of it is another matter. :lol

I guess we will have to wait to find out.

[Parker2112]

lets make it easy: chemtrails is anything other than contrails.

Contrails dissapate realtively quickly. They dont hold form from horizon to horizon. We see streaks across the sky every day that defy this tendency. I understand the science behind contrails. They are pretty easy to spot actually. They begin dispersing within a matter of minutes...not hours.

A couple of the weather men in those vids posted earlier explain that the military drops chaff to confuse radar, and this likely means there is routine training with the stuff, so that is one form of confirmed type of chemtrail, if you believe those professionals.

I dont claim that there is only one type, or that we are being maliciously poisoned etc, I only claim that there is such a thing as "chemtrails," and that congress has tried to stop the practice.

RG as for your unicorn meat analogy, I dont think it holds water, and here is why: we can very safely assume that any congressmen who takes the time to draft and submit legislation will not spend much time "making shit up" to include in the bill to prevent future government activity from taking place.

I think Kucinich's list of "exotic weapons" was drafted with an eye on secret military activity already taking place, or he wouldnt have dedicated time and energy to it.

Actually I think we all know that, but you guys just like to argue :lol

If your unicorn meat argument is to stand, why didnt Kucinich throw in time travel and star trek transporters?

[Wild Cobra]

Contrails dissipate at a variable rate. This dissipation rate depends on several climatic factors To assume they all dissipate quickly is an utter joke.

[RandomGuy]

Contrails dissipate at a variable rate. This dissipation rate depends on several climatic factors To assume they all dissipate quickly is an utter joke.

Precisely.



On days when cirrus cloud formation is occurring, there is more moisture in the upper atmosphere, and consequently, contrails may linger longer before evaporating. Since cirrus clouds often precede a general overcast or haze, the casual observer could easily assume that the contrails have caused the overcast, or become the overcast.

[Winehole23]

Parker just received an uncommon distinction: a ruthless and decisive pwning at the hands of WC.

[RandomGuy]

we can very safely assume that any congressmen who takes the time to draft and submit legislation will not spend much time "making shit up"

Making shit up? No.

Making factual mistakes that have to be removed on later versions? Yes.

Is it your assertion that no bill has ever been initially drafted by a congressperson that has been error-free?

I don't think "we can safely assume" that assertion would be correct at all.

The question stands, because you made the implicit case that if Mr. Kucinich had includeded it, he must have a reason for it.

Namely, you imply "the activity exists because Kucinich tried to stop the activity".

Backtrack all you want from that, but that albatross will hang on your neck.

The implication was very clear.

[RandomGuy]

I dont claim that there is only one type, or that we are being maliciously poisoned etc, I only claim that there is such a thing as "chemtrails," and that congress has tried to stop the practice.

I have little doubt that chemicals can be sprayed by low-level flights of tanker planes in a manner similar to crop dusting.

That is by far not what the people who talk about "chemtrails" means.

I think, if anything, the staffer, if not Mr. Kucinich himself, that worked up the language used a misnomer at best, and poor research at worst.

Such a misnomer or poor research would be pointed out by the DOD as well.

"There is no such thing as "chemtrails", so you might want to remove that from the bill, or risk looking like an idiot" would suffice to provide enough motivation to remove the word from the bill, would it not?

[Wild Cobra]

I have little doubt that chemicals can be sprayed by low-level flights of tanker planes in a manner similar to crop dusting.

That is by far not what the people who talk about "chemtrails" means.

I think, if anything, the staffer, if not Mr. Kucinich himself, that worked up the language used a misnomer at best, and poor research at worst.

Such a misnomer or poor research would be pointed out by the DOD as well.

"There is no such thing as "chemtrails", so you might want to remove that from the bill, or risk looking like an idiot" would suffice to provide enough motivation to remove the word from the bill, would it not?
Maybe if Parker could show us some video that is from a sprayer, and not from the engines, wing tips, etc... some of us might look into it more.

Where's the videos Parker?

[RandomGuy]

I only claim that there is such a thing as "chemtrails,"

Yet you can't define what they are?

Define the term.

Put up or shut up.




or, you can keep digging that hole of FAIL. It is amusing to watch, so I'm good either way.

[MannyIsGod]

lets make it easy: chemtrails is anything other than contrails.

Contrails dissapate realtively quickly. They dont hold form from horizon to horizon. We see streaks across the sky every day that defy this tendency. I understand the science behind contrails. They are pretty easy to spot actually. They begin dispersing within a matter of minutes...not hours.



The above is simply wrong. On most days here in NM this winter I've observed contrails lasting for hours. They can most definitely last from horizon to horizon.




A couple of the weather men in those vids posted earlier explain that the military drops chaff to confuse radar, and this likely means there is routine training with the stuff, so that is one form of confirmed type of chemtrail, if you believe those professionals.


LOL @ weathermen being experts in anything other than tossing it back to an anchor.

In any event, do you know what chaff is? Its a bunch of strips of radar reflective mylar. Its not a chemical trail of any sort.



I dont claim that there is only one type, or that we are being maliciously poisoned etc, I only claim that there is such a thing as "chemtrails," and that congress has tried to stop the practice.

RG as for your unicorn meat analogy, I dont think it holds water, and here is why: we can very safely assume that any congressmen who takes the time to draft and submit legislation will not spend much time "making shit up" to include in the bill to prevent future government activity from taking place.

I think Kucinich's list of "exotic weapons" was drafted with an eye on secret military activity already taking place, or he wouldnt have dedicated time and energy to it.

Actually I think we all know that, but you guys just like to argue :lol

If your unicorn meat argument is to stand, why didnt Kucinich throw in time travel and star trek transporters?

I'll probably never say this again, but WC did a great job in this thread. Its scary.

[MannyIsGod]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Contrails_southeast_lrg.gif

Unless some of these planes are flying incredibly fast, these contrails are most definitely lasting hours.

[LnGrrrR]

Parker's MO is that if even one person on the inside says that A happened, it must have, even though the majority say it didn't.

What about that US Air Force officer who said that the government is hiding alien artifacts? Do you buy that too?

[TeyshaBlue]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Contrails_southeast_lrg.gif

Unless some of these planes are flying incredibly fast, these contrails are most definitely lasting hours.

If you look long enough, you'll see the word "FAIL" spelled out.:lol

[LnGrrrR]

Besides, it is completely unconstitutional. Congress cannot dictate the presidents actions!

Within reason.

[LnGrrrR]

So if I showed you a picture of canned unicorn meat, you would think it exists?

http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/frontsquare/e5a7_canned_unicorn_meat.jpg

:rollin:lmao:lol:rollin:lmao:lol

[LnGrrrR]

What's funny is that even if planes were spraying chemicals, I don't see what they'd be hoping to accomplish. Acid rain or something?

[lefty]

Damn Reptilians

[Parker2112]

When I was a kid, the phenomena of the everlasting contrail didnt exist. I remember watching contrails disapate behind fighter jets from my grandmother's front yard almost as fast as they were lain, because I was fascinated by fighter jets as a boy. I dont have any need to disbelieve what my eyes tell me either.

My take: geo-engineering experimentation. Kucinich's take: something that the DOD wants to conduct in secret and without interference.


Proponents have asserted that because explicit reference to chemtrails was entered by Congressman Kucinich into the congressional record, this constitutes official government acknowledgment of their existence.[18] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-earth-17)[25] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-bethel-24) That bill received an unfavorable evaluation from the United States Department of Defense (http://spurstalk.com/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Defense) and died in committee,[26] (http://spurstalk.com/forums/#cite_note-25) with no mention of chemtrails appearing in the text of any of the three subsequent failed attempts by Kucinich to enact a Space Preservation Act.

[Winehole23]

My take: geo-engineering experimentation.What are your sources on that, or is this just more bluster and bullshit?

[Parker2112]

btw: the vids throughout this thread are pretty good if you have the time.

And RG, chemtrail is simply a contrail with a chemical component which is not the result of normal aircraft residue in the upper atmosphere.

[Parker2112]

What are your sources on that, or is this just more bluster and bullshit?

thats pure speculation, based on what Ive seen. But then again, anybody's take on this is a guess, period. There is no official source copping to the truth. So what else did you expect. When the case remains unsolved, detectives are left to their hunches.

[Parker2112]

btw: i wouldnt put any faith about my "guess."

[LnGrrrR]

When I was a kid, I remember that I used to be able to buy candy for a nickel. Obviously, a conspiracy is afoot, because I can't do that now.

I seemingly remember being invincible then. Must be all the flouride I've ingested that made me vulnerable.

[MannyIsGod]

When you were a kid - contrails lasted for a long time in the same weather conditions that allow them to persist today. Whether or not you observed that I cannot say, but that has more to do with you than any change to the contrails.

[Parker2112]

kucinich's painful experiene tends to push things toward secret military operations.

[TeyshaBlue]

thats pure speculation, based on what Ive seen. But then again, anybody's take on this is a guess, period. There is no official source copping to the truth. So what else did you expect. When the case remains unsolved, detectives are left to their hunches.

The truth? Could it be that the truth is they are persistent contrails? Who would cop to the obvious?

[BUMP]

fPzje3lISdY

[TeyshaBlue]

This just in: Fire is hot!

[Parker2112]

When you were a kid - contrails lasted for a long time in the same weather conditions that allow them to persist today. Whether or not you observed that I cannot say, but that has more to do with you than any change to the contrails.

I dont think you can speak to the time when I was a kid, Manny. You can assume to, but your also assuming the military isnt involved in any unreported activity in the upper atmosphere today, which I think is pretty arrogant. Not trying to offend here, just saying.

[LnGrrrR]

I dont think you can speak to the time when I was a kid, Manny. You can assume to, but your also assuming the military isnt involved in any unreported activity in the upper atmosphere today, which I think is pretty arrogant. Not trying to offend here, just saying.

You know, I'm pretty sure that water tasted sweet back when I was a kid. You can't prove me wrong. It must be a gov't conspiracy to desweeten the water.

You can assume that I'm making it up, but it's just that, an assuption. That's pretty arrogant of you. Not trying to offend, just saying.

[TeyshaBlue]

I dont think you can speak to the time when I was a kid, Manny. You can assume to, but your also assuming the military isnt involved in any unreported activity in the upper atmosphere today, which I think is pretty arrogant. Not trying to offend here, just saying.

Unreported military activity in the upper atmosphere could be a search for a decent beer...it could be a search for Elvis....it's a stretch to assume that the unreported activity has indeed been reported and it's chemtrails.

[MannyIsGod]

I dont think you can speak to the time when I was a kid, Manny. You can assume to, but your also assuming the military isnt involved in any unreported activity in the upper atmosphere today, which I think is pretty arrogant. Not trying to offend here, just saying.

http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

[Parker2112]

No one here has even attempted to touch thi:


RG as for your unicorn meat analogy, I dont think it holds water, and here is why: we can very safely assume that any congressmen who takes the time to draft and submit legislation will not spend much time "making shit up" to include in the bill to prevent future government activity from taking place.

I think Kucinich's list of "exotic weapons" was drafted with an eye on secret military activity already taking place, or he wouldnt have dedicated time and energy to it.


And yet RG tells me to put up or shut up. Funny how this got swept under the rug, to make way for conclusory statements of disbelief.

[Parker2112]

http://contrailscience.com/persisting-and-spreading-contrails/

Then I should be having this conversation with the author of that article I suppose.

watch out, WH will be along to call you a "handwaiver" if you dont watch it.

[MannyIsGod]

I guess we're not allowed to cite the information of those that came before us according to you Parker. Either you witness it or its unprovable.

Such a strange reality that would be.

[TeyshaBlue]

No one here has even attempted to touch thi:



And yet RG tells me to put up or shut up. Funny how this got swept under the rug, to make way for conclusory statements of disbelief.

Exotic weapons. Chemtrails. Lots of dots to connect there, Parker. I ain't seeing any lines yet.

[TeyshaBlue]

Railguns anyone? Pretty exotic.


Particle weapons? Yikes!


Let's push those aside and assume exotic weaponry = chemtrails?


Nope.

[LnGrrrR]

Speaking of which, I seem to remember seeing a railgun when I was a kid. But I'm sure the military would just deny it if I brought it up. It's a conspiracy!

[DarrinS]

Holy crap! Check this out! What the hell is the govt putting in the air?

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/2674/double-rainbow.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Parker managed to unite the entire political forum.

Nice.

[LnGrrrR]

Holy crap! Check this out! What the hell is the govt putting in the air?

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/2674/double-rainbow.jpg

:lmao

[Parker2112]

For those of you that "United" after the first page,


HR 2977 IH
107th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. R. 2977
To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
October 2, 2001


Mr. KUCINICH introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Science, and in addition to the Committees on Armed Services, and International Relations, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned

A BILL


To preserve the cooperative, peaceful uses of space for the benefit of all humankind by permanently prohibiting the basing of weapons in space by the United States, and to require the President to take action to adopt and implement a world treaty banning space-based weapons.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.



This Act may be cited as the `Space Preservation Act of 2001'.
SEC. 2. REAFFIRMATION OF POLICY ON THE PRESERVATION OF PEACE IN SPACE.



Congress reaffirms the policy expressed in section 102(a) of the National Aeronautics and Space Act of 1958 (42 U.S.C. 2451(a)), stating that it `is the policy of the United States that activities in space should be devoted to peaceful purposes for the benefit of all mankind.'.
SEC. 3. PERMANENT BAN ON BASING OF WEAPONS IN SPACE.



The President shall--




(1) implement a permanent ban on space-based weapons of the United States and remove from space any existing space-based weapons of the United States; and





(2) immediately order the permanent termination of research and development, testing, manufacturing, production, and deployment of all space-based weapons of the United States and their components.

SEC. 4. WORLD AGREEMENT BANNING SPACE-BASED WEAPONS.



The President shall direct the United States representatives to the United Nations and other international organizations to immediately work toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing a world agreement banning space-based weapons.
SEC. 5. REPORT.



The President shall submit to Congress not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and every 90 days thereafter, a report on--




(1) the implementation of the permanent ban on space-based weapons required by section 3; and





(2) progress toward negotiating, adopting, and implementing the agreement described in section 4.

SEC. 6. NON SPACE-BASED WEAPONS ACTIVITIES.



Nothing in this Act may be construed as prohibiting the use of funds for--




(1) space exploration;





(2) space research and development;





(3) testing, manufacturing, or production that is not related to space-based weapons or systems; or





(4) civil, commercial, or defense activities (including communications, navigation, surveillance, reconnaissance, early warning, or remote sensing) that are not related to space-based weapons or systems.

SEC. 7. DEFINITIONS.



In this Act:




(1) The term `space' means all space extending upward from an altitude greater than 60 kilometers above the surface of the earth and any celestial body in such space.





(2)(A) The terms `weapon' and `weapons system' mean a device capable of any of the following:







(i) Damaging or destroying an object (whether in outer space, in the atmosphere, or on earth) by--










(I) firing one or more projectiles to collide with that object;











(II) detonating one or more explosive devices in close proximity to that object;











(III) directing a source of energy (including molecular or atomic energy, subatomic particle beams, electromagnetic radiation, plasma, or extremely low frequency (ELF) or ultra low frequency (ULF) energy radiation) against that object; or











(IV) any other unacknowledged or as yet undeveloped means.









(ii) Inflicting death or injury on, or damaging or destroying, a person (or the biological life, bodily health, mental health, or physical and economic well-being of a person)--










(I) through the use of any of the means described in clause (i) or subparagraph (B);











(II) through the use of land-based, sea-based, or space-based systems using radiation, electromagnetic, psychotronic, sonic, laser, or other energies directed at individual persons or targeted populations for the purpose of information war, mood management, or mind control of such persons or populations; or











(III) by expelling chemical or biological agents in the vicinity of a person.







(B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--







(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;








(ii) chemtrails;








(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;








(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;








(v) laser weapons systems;








(vi) strategic, theater, tactical, or extraterrestrial weapons; and








(vii) chemical, biological, environmental, climate, or tectonic weapons.






(C) The term `exotic weapons systems' includes weapons designed to damage space or natural ecosystems (such as the ionosphere and upper atmosphere) or climate, weather, and tectonic systems with the purpose of inducing damage or destruction upon a target population or region on earth or in space.


Made it a little bigger this time. Exotic Weapons in this proposed legislation specifically includes "chemtrails." DOD made him redact the language. RG says that Kucinich made that term up in anticipation of future govt activity. I say congressmen dont "make up shit" to include in legislation.

But the "United" front is probably right, and chemtrails only exist in an alternate reality. :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

He also included et weapons. They must have aliens!!!

[Wild Cobra]

Parker...

It's pretty bad when Random and I agree....



I'll probably never say this again, but WC did a great job in this thread. Its scary.
Parker...

It's even worse when Manny agrees with me.

[Wild Cobra]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/62/Contrails_southeast_lrg.gif

Unless some of these planes are flying incredibly fast, these contrails are most definitely lasting hours.
I thought that would be expected at what... 40,000 ft or so? Just how cold and at what absolute pressure is it? Seems to me it would take a very long time for that cold air to absorb all that moisture from the jet exhausts.

[Wild Cobra]

Parker managed to unite the entire political forum.

Nice.
He has a way of accomplishing the impossible!

[Parker2112]

He also included et weapons. They must have aliens!!!

lol you dont know the meaning of extraterrestrial :lol

[LnGrrrR]

I'm still waiting for Parker to agree/disagree about my railgun theory. Oh and explain why water is less sweet than it used to be.

[Parker2112]

lol, folks arguing that
[Kuinich was legislating a non-existent governmental activity , on par w/unicorn meat, an activity that the DOD objected to specifically, and was deleted from his subsequent bills]
in order to save face

[LnGrrrR]

What exactly did the DoD say Parker?

[Wild Cobra]

lol, folks arguing that
[Kuinich was legislating a non-existent governmental activity , on par w/unicorn meat, an activity that the DOD objected to specifically, and was deleted from his subsequent bills]
in order to save face
Can you show us a piece of legislation that covers only chemtrails, rather than asking us to believe it never went anywhere because of chemtrails, when so many other things were involved?

[Parker2112]

What exactly did the DoD say Parker?

read the thread. WC did the research. Then he couldn't interpret his findings, but what he found was important nonetheless.

[Parker2112]

Can you show us a piece of legislation that covers only chemtrails, rather than asking us to believe it never went anywhere because of chemtrails, when so many other things were involved?

Do you understand that the bill was resubmitted multiple times, with all the other things you speak of still included, but without the chemtrails reference...after DOD's objection to the bill in its original form?

[MannyIsGod]

Do you even know where the bill came from?

[Parker2112]

Do you even know where the bill came from?

1. vague question with a multitude of answers
2. If you have an argument make it. I have made mine already.

[LnGrrrR]

DoD objected, but what did they say specifically?

Let me give you a hint. If I ask how long it's been since you stopped beating your wife, and you disagree/take offense to the question, does that mean you're hiding something?

[LnGrrrR]

And since you know so much, praytell how these chemicals would work. What chemicals have been detected?

[MannyIsGod]

1. vague question with a multitude of answers
2. If you have an argument make it. I have made mine already.

http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/

Kucinich didn't write the damn bill.

[MannyIsGod]

And since you know so much, praytell how these chemicals would work. What chemicals have been detected?

There is no physical evidence for this bullshit.

[Parker2112]

http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/

Kucinich didn't write the damn bill.

they made the same bogus argument about e.t. weapons that you did (weapons in space, not UFO bullshit, btw) and they discount military attempts to use mind control which is documented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

These guys are skeptics at all costs right off the bat. Cred 0.

#2. Congressmen NEVER write the damn bill. It gets written by attys usually specializing in legislative drafting. The legislator takes his or her wants/desires to them and they draft it in language that holds water.

#3. If you think that Kucinich didnt know thet language was in the bill, regardless of who wrote it, you are on crack. And that is his effective endorsement of the language, which amounts to the same thing as him drafting it for all intents and purposes. Nothing to see here.

#4. That website you are reciting verbatim in your arguments over this thread is full of holes, and now you are too.

[Parker2112]

DoD objected, but what did they say specifically?

Let me give you a hint. If I ask how long it's been since you stopped beating your wife, and you disagree/take offense to the question, does that mean you're hiding something?

LNG, you are arguing without having read the thread. Nuff said.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao @ you saying an argument against a conspiracy theory with no evidence is full of holes.

Rich rich rich irony.

Pretty sure this thread guarantees what little cred you had left here is gone. I'm sure you'll chalk it up to it having to do with no one wanting to listen to you, however. Just like a conspiracy theororist to blame everyone else.

[Parker2112]

:lmao @ you saying an argument against a conspiracy theory with no evidence is full of holes.
.

Way to sidestep every hole I just shot in their argument. It speaks all the volumes I need to hear. And you claim to actually have credibility? :lol

as for "no evidence," have you tried post #1? Or any of the subsequent posts for that matter?

Your unconditional/uninformed skepticism is pretty sad.

[LnGrrrR]

I read the thread. DoD said it didnt agree. Did they post specifics?

And again, what chemicals are they using? Do they have hard evidence? How would spraying chemicals in the air affect the human body?

[greyforest]

Contrails dissipate at various rates depending on temperature, wind movement, and humidity.

Seriously. Some clouds in the sky don't immediately dissipate; THEY THEREFORE ARE CHEMCLOUDS FILLED WITH CHEM.

[RandomGuy]

btw: the vids throughout this thread are pretty good if you have the time.

And RG, chemtrail is simply a contrail with a chemical component which is not the result of normal aircraft residue in the upper atmosphere.

Thank you. A fair answer.

Does it bother you that it is impossible to actually affect anything on the ground with such spraying?

Spraying of pesticides is done from 30-150 feet.

Attempting to target something with an aerosol from 30,000 feet is next to impossible, according to any weapons expert that has been pestered about the subject. Winds, dispersion and evaporation all work against any such attempt.

Do you have evidence that shows, on a scientific basis, how this would be accomplished, given the above mentioned factors?

You have to be very specific, a valid proposal in any defense journal would do, showing concentrations, dispersal patterns etc.

[TeyshaBlue]

Way to sidestep every hole I just shot in their argument. It speaks all the volumes I need to hear. And you claim to actually have credibility? :lol

as for "no evidence," have you tried post #1? Or any of the subsequent posts for that matter?

Your unconditional/uninformed skepticism is pretty sad.

I'm unaware of any holes you've produced in this thread,Parker...and, this morning at least, I'm relatively open to a cogent argument.

Touchdown dance much?

[RandomGuy]

By the by, the film is debunked here:
http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

That website seems to be the best clearinghouse for information. Here is an excerpt from the section on this specific house bill:

http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/



Kucinich’s motivations are perhaps revealed by his speech to the house on May 18th, 2005, introducing a newer version of the bill:


“What has happened to our country? Why are we projecting fear and paranoia to such heights? Have we so lost our way and our faith that we are prepared to transform the heavens into hell? If the kingdom and the will of God is to be done on earth as it is in heaven, what is to happen when the United States takes nuclear fire up to the gates of heaven?
“Such an offense against humanity could bring the wrath of God upon this nation.”

So Kucinich thinks that space based weapons will offend God, since space is close to heaven, and if you put nuclear weapons near heaven then God will be offended and bring his wrath against us.

If you actually ARE a conspiracy theorist, then all this will come as little surprise to you. You will already believe the government is covering up technology based on crashed UFOs. Yet HR2977 is constantly being mentioned solely to make the case that “chemtrails” are something the government is aware of. The reality is that they were simply given a passing mention in bill written by new-age UFO conspiracy theorists and sponsored by an eccentric politician, all of who believe in things that are far more unusual than “chemtrails”. [emphasis mine-RG]

[RandomGuy]

News station finds Barium in water sample following chemtrails sighting.

okB-489l6MI



You do know that the reporter misplaced a decimal, right?

Or did you just accept that video as fact without verifying its veracity?

[RandomGuy]

Damn. I just went back and re-read the thread.

The self-pwnage on the part of Mr. Parker is epic. I will catalogue it at some point, it is highly illuminating. I honestly wonder how high he was when he posted half this stuff.

[Wild Cobra]

Seriously. Some clouds in the sky don't immediately dissipate; THEY THEREFORE ARE CHEMCLOUDS FILLED WITH CHEM.
Not only that, some clouds, and I will assume contrails, cause moisture in the air to add to them and they actually get bigger. Clouds do this naturally, no reason contrails can't do it too.

[RandomGuy]

What exactly did the DoD say Parker?


read the thread. WC did the research. Then he couldn't interpret his findings, but what he found was important nonetheless.

Here we have a fun exchange, in which Mr. Parker is asked to say exactly what the DOD said.

Mr. Parker implies rather strongly that Kucinich was told to shut up by the DOD, and not mention chemtrails in the bill.


Kucinich tried to stop the activity. DOD nipped that shit in the bud. Thats all I need to know WC.

it doesnt mention chemtrails cuz the word was redacted after DOD told Kucinich that refraining from chemtrail activity was not an option. The new bill left out any mention. Follow?

On what exactly does it seem Mr. Parker has made this fairly specific claim?

What did Wild Corbra find?


4/19/2002:
Unfavorable Executive Comment [about the bill in general] Received from DOD.

"unfavorable comment"

The question remains unanswered by Mr. Parker.

What *exactly* did the DOD say about the mention of "chemtrails" in the initial draft of the bill, Parker?

[admiralsnackbar]

"It's what they didn't say!"

:D

[Parker2112]

Thank you. A fair answer.

Does it bother you that it is impossible to actually affect anything on the ground with such spraying?

Spraying of pesticides is done from 30-150 feet.

Attempting to target something with an aerosol from 30,000 feet is next to impossible, according to any weapons expert that has been pestered about the subject. Winds, dispersion and evaporation all work against any such attempt.

Do you have evidence that shows, on a scientific basis, how this would be accomplished, given the above mentioned factors?

You have to be very specific, a valid proposal in any defense journal would do, showing concentrations, dispersal patterns etc.

Blatant straw argument. No one said the activity needed to be aimed at a target.

[Parker2112]

I read the thread. DoD said it didnt agree. Did they post specifics?

And again, what chemicals are they using? Do they have hard evidence? How would spraying chemicals in the air affect the human body?

I dont claim to know what why or how. Or even if its harmful. But the evidence is there if your not biased towards skepticism. There is a ton of it in this thread as a matter of fact. But the evidence isnt getting near as much airtime as the namecalling and laughing smilies. Need I say more?

[RandomGuy]

Blatant straw argument. No one said the activity needed to be aimed at a target.

Nice unicycle.


BTW: Strawman argument.

[Parker2112]

lol, folks arguing that
[Kuinich was legislating a non-existent governmental activity , on par w/unicorn meat, an activity that the DOD objected to specifically, and was deleted from his subsequent bills]
in order to save face


Do you understand that the bill was resubmitted multiple times, with all the other things you speak of still included, but without the chemtrails reference...after DOD's objection to the bill in its original form?


http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/

Kucinich didn't write the damn bill.


they made the same bogus argument about e.t. weapons that you did (weapons in space, not UFO bullshit, btw) and they discount military attempts to use mind control which is documented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

These guys are skeptics at all costs right off the bat. Cred 0.

#2. Congressmen NEVER write the damn bill. It gets written by attys usually specializing in legislative drafting. The legislator takes his or her wants/desires to them and they draft it in language that holds water.

#3. If you think that Kucinich didnt know thet language was in the bill, regardless of who wrote it, you are on crack. And that is his effective endorsement of the language, which amounts to the same thing as him drafting it for all intents and purposes. Nothing to see here.

#4. That website you are reciting verbatim in your arguments over this thread is full of holes, and now you are too.


I'm unaware of any holes you've produced in this thread,Parker...and, this morning at least, I'm relatively open to a cogent argument.

Touchdown dance much?

keep in mind that this thread started with
- a "no such thing as chemtrails,"
- advanced through a govt admission that the term chemtrails is at least credible enough to find its way into federal legislation (no skeptic spoke on that)
- instead skeptics proceeded to "chemtrails are credible as a photo unicorn meat" (without addressing the bill at all)
-then on to "the congressmen who sponsored the bill had no idea nor control over the contents" implication (congressmen was absolutely made aware of the contents and probably advised against the inclusion...once thats pointed out, skeptics never addressed it again)
- and on to "we cant prove DoD forced Kucinich to redact the chemtrails reference" so that washes the whole thing into the refuse bin, evidently
-the whole time with a blatant attempt disregard for circumstantial evidence up to the rafters.

Mind you, B. Whiteshoes never made an appearance

[Parker2112]

Nice unicycle.


BTW: Strawman argument.

save face with a grammar check? :lol

[RandomGuy]

..RG, [a] chemtrail is simply a contrail with a chemical component which is not the result of normal aircraft residue in the upper atmosphere.


Thank you. A fair answer.

Does it bother you that it is impossible to actually affect anything on the ground with such spraying?

Spraying of pesticides is done from 30-150 feet.

Attempting to target something with an aerosol from 30,000 feet is next to impossible, according to any weapons expert that has been pestered about the subject. Winds, dispersion and evaporation all work against any such attempt.

Do you have evidence that shows, on a scientific basis, how this would be accomplished, given the above mentioned factors?

You have to be very specific, a valid proposal in any defense journal would do, showing concentrations, dispersal patterns etc.


Blatant straw argument. No one said the activity needed to be aimed at a target.

Not really a strawman argument. I didn't distort what you said, merely tried to fill in the holes with some reasonable assumptions.

Since there seems to be some ambiguity:

Do tell, for what purpose would these "chemical component"s be introduced into atmosphere? Pretty rainbows?

It is your job to define the problem you seem to be so concerned about.

[Parker2112]

By the by, the film is debunked here:
http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

That website seems to be the best clearinghouse for information. Here is an excerpt from the section on this specific house bill:

http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/

read above. That take is SHIT.

FIRST: they misinterpreted extraterrestrial weapons as being of alien origin, rather than being weapons stationed in space. That tells you the intelligene of the author/s was limited.

SECOND: They imply that a congressman doesnt know whats in the bills he sponsors, and that he will sponsor a bill by any kook with an agenda. WHAT A CROCK.

[RandomGuy]

BTW: Strawman argument.


save face with a grammar check? :lol

I knew what you meant, others might not. The correction was not intended to do anything but clarify enough so that anyone unfamiliar with the strawman logical fallacy might be able to determine what you were referring to, as opposed to a straw poll, or something similar.

Grammar smack is not my thing, unless you start a thread bitching about someone else's grammar, then it is fair game. This is not one of those. :)

[Parker2112]

Not really a strawman argument. I didn't distort what you said, merely tried to fill in the holes with some reasonable assumptions.

Since there seems to be some ambiguity:

Do tell, for what purpose would these "chemical component"s be introduced into atmosphere? Pretty rainbows?

It is your job to define the problem you seem to be so concerned about.

1st: it is a strawman. You interjected a false assertion by me to reject.

2nd: go ahead...admit it.

3rd: You are trying to get me to guess at what the activity is all about, so you can do easy battle with conjecture. Dishonest tactic, imho. If it was that easy to pin down, it wouldnt be the subject of so much debate and speculation. Uneasy with ambiguity much?

[Parker2112]

the implication that DOD told Kucinich to redact exotic weapons is clear as day. They made their objections, and the language was gone in every subsequent draft. That isnt proof positive, but any take that says my take is impossible is a completely disingenuous attempt to save face

[LnGrrrR]

Blatant straw argument. No one said the activity needed to be aimed at a target.

So they're randomly spraying chemicals without trying to affect someone?

[LnGrrrR]

I dont claim to know what why or how. Or even if its harmful. But the evidence is there if your not biased towards skepticism. There is a ton of it in this thread as a matter of fact. But the evidence isnt getting near as much airtime as the namecalling and laughing smilies. Need I say more?

Do they have air quality samples showing chemical residue?

[LnGrrrR]

the implication that DOD told Kucinich to redact exotic weapons is clear as day. They made their objections, and the language was gone in every subsequent draft. That isnt proof positive, but any take that says my take is impossible is a completely disingenuous attempt to save face

I thought you said you knew what DoD said exactly?

Also, have you stopped beating your wife?

Finally, you can't prove that water wasn't sweeter when I was a kid. I remember it.

[Parker2112]

So they're randomly spraying chemicals without trying to affect someone?

no one knows what is happening or why. residents in california claim that they have laboratory tests confirming that water supply is showing abnormal levels of aluminum and barium in areas where that cant be explained with known sources of pollution.

In the Pacific Northwest residents have complained of symptoms after military manuevers for 10-15 years.

see post 1.

But the weatherman says the "chaff" dropped by military is used to scramble radar, so it could be citizens seeing signs from secret military ops that are not aimed at people at all, but aimed at hiding our aircraft activity from other countries.

or these could just be training exercises that the military disregard the affect on environment/citizens. I dont claim to know.

[TeyshaBlue]

keep in mind that this thread started with
- a "no such thing as chemtrails,"
- advanced through a govt admission that the term chemtrails is at least credible enough to find its way into federal legislation (no skeptic spoke on that)
- instead skeptics proceeded to "chemtrails are credible as a photo unicorn meat" (without addressing the bill at all)
-then on to "the congressmen who sponsored the bill had no idea nor control over the contents" implication (congressmen was absolutely made aware of the contents and probably advised against the inclusion...once thats pointed out, skeptics never addressed it again)
- and on to "we cant prove DoD forced Kucinich to redact the chemtrails reference" so that washes the whole thing into the refuse bin, evidently
-the whole time with a blatant attempt disregard for circumstantial evidence up to the rafters.

Mind you, B. Whiteshoes never made an appearance

So there's been no evidence of chemtrails. Ok then.

[Parker2112]

Do they have air quality samples showing chemical residue?

water samples.

[Parker2112]

I thought you said you knew what DoD said exactly?



you either read it or you didnt. use quotes, or your just blowin hot air.

[Parker2112]

So there's been no evidence of chemtrails. Ok then.

post #1.

[TeyshaBlue]

the implication that DOD told Kucinich to redact exotic weapons is clear as day. They made their objections, and the language was gone in every subsequent draft. That isnt proof positive, but any take that says my take is impossible is a completely disingenuous attempt to save face

You've yet to lay out that "clear as day" implication. So lay it out, Parker.

[RandomGuy]

read above. That take is SHIT.

FIRST: they misinterpreted extraterrestrial weapons as being of alien origin, rather than being weapons stationed in space. That tells you the intelligene of the author/s was limited.

SECOND: They imply that a congressman doesnt know whats in the bills he sponsors, and that he will sponsor a bill by any kook with an agenda. WHAT A CROCK.


Who wrote this? The original language for the bill was actually created by Alfred Webre and Carol Rosin. See, from Webre’s web site:

http://www.exopolitics.com/

With Dr. Carol S. Rosin and many others, [Webre] is a co-architect of the Space Preservation Act and the Space Preservation Treaty introduced to the U.S. Congress by Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) to ban space-based weapons.
And also

http://www.exopoliticsinstitute.org/advisory-board-PP&M.htm#Webre

With others, Webre is a co-architect of the Space Preservation Treaty (www.peaceinspace.org ) and the Space Preservation Act that was introduced to the U.S. Congress by Congressman Dennis Kucinich and is endorsed by over 270 NGO’s worldwide.
Webre and Rosin started an organization called the “Institute For Cooperation In Space“, an organization whose primary purpose is to promote adoption of the Space Preservation Act.

http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/

The debunker inlcuded links to the websites and quotes from those websites.

The word extraterrestrial clearly means "space aliens" not "space based weapons".

Sorry you don't like that bit, as you seem to be completely unaware of the bill's original source wording, but I think the interpretation is quite spot-on.

[Parker2112]

there are tons of interviews with fellow californians in that film: scientists, federal agents, local officials, businessmen, residents, etc Teysha. give it a whirl.

The backlash to the govt activity seems to be strongest in your state, bud.

[Parker2112]

http://contrailscience.com/kucinich-chemtrails-and-hr-2977/

The debunker inlcuded links to the websites and quotes from those websites.

The word extraterrestrial clearly means "space aliens" not "space based weapons".

Sorry you don't like that bit, as you seem to be completely unaware of the bill's original source wording, but I think the interpretation is quite spot-on.





Definitions of extraterrestrial on the Web:

originating or located or occurring outside Earth or its atmosphere
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[RandomGuy]

the implication that DOD told Kucinich to redact exotic weapons is clear as day. They made their objections, and the language was gone in every subsequent draft. That isnt proof positive, but any take that says my take is impossible is a completely disingenuous attempt to save face

So, no, you have no idea what the DOD actually said to Kucinich?

This is your assertion, your burden of proof.

So far the only thing we know is that the DOD gave an "unfavorable comment" to it.

That could mean just about anything, and is very far from being anywhere close to proving your assertion.

For the 5th time;

What *exactly* did the DOD say concerning "chemtrails", Parker?

[Parker2112]

do you understand where the Earth's atmosphere stops, RG, or do you need a color illustration?

[TeyshaBlue]

there are tons of interviews with fellow californians in that film: scientists, federal agents, local officials, businessmen, residents, etc Teysha. give it a whirl.

The backlash to the govt activity seems to be strongest in your state, bud.

I finished your youtube post. Aside from the overly dramatic scary music, a key component of propaganda films btw, I see no evidence whatsoever presented. I see lots of "I received tons of emails" and "People everywhere have been sending me letters", but I see nothing in the way of hard evidence. Even assuming that they were able to spray aluminum particles, which is very old oil field tech, there's no deductive chain of logic to follow. Sorry. Heresay is heresay.

[Parker2112]

So, no, you have no idea what the DOD actually said to Kucinich?

This is your assertion, your burden of proof.

So far the only thing we know is that the DOD gave an "unfavorable comment" to it.

That could mean just about anything, and is very far from being anywhere close to proving your assertion.

For the 5th time;

What *exactly* did the DOD say concerning "chemtrails", Parker?

This is again Wormtongue tactics. The edits on the bill following DoD's objections (which are not revealed, as you know) clearly imply what the objected to. You know it I know it she knows it.

Time is up for today, fellas.

[TeyshaBlue]

the implication that DOD told Kucinich to redact exotic weapons is clear as day. They made their objections, and the language was gone in every subsequent draft. That isnt proof positive, but any take that says my take is impossible is a completely disingenuous attempt to save face.


You've yet to lay out that "clear as day" implication. So lay it out, Parker.

Waiting.

[RandomGuy]

[/LIST]:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Half-truths parker? Why are you lying to us?


extraterrestrial [ˌɛkstrətɪˈrɛstrɪəl]
adj
(Astronomy) occurring or existing beyond the earth's atmosphere
n
(in science fiction) a being from beyond the earth's atmosphere
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extraterrestrial


VIDEO: Intelligent civilizations' galactic governance authorities to intervene to clean Earth's ecology 2011-15
...

More predicted UFO sightings over New York confirm ETs will intervene in ecology

...

http://www.exopolitics.com/

Looks like the debunker did more work than you did on figuring out the context.

FAIL.

[Parker2112]

I finished your youtube post. Aside from the overly dramatic scary music, a key component of propaganda films btw, I see no evidence whatsoever presented. I see lots of "I received tons of emails" and "People everywhere have been sending me letters", but I see nothing in the way of hard evidence. Even assuming that they were able to spray aluminum particles, which is very old oil field tech, there's no deductive chain of logic to follow. Sorry. Heresay is heresay.

well, there you go. Glad you watched. I realize the film is sensationalized, which may be unfortunate, but you will at least be on the lookout for the two guys bumrushing public officials about chemtrails. Stay on your toes, you may be next. :wow

[Parker2112]

Waiting.

post 143

[RandomGuy]

This is again Wormtongue tactics. The edits on the bill following DoD's objections (which are not revealed, as you know) clearly imply what the objected to. You know it I know it she knows it.

Time is up for today, fellas.

The question will not go-away until you answer it.

For the 6th time it has been asked with no answer.

What *exactly* did the DOD say concerning "chemtrails", Parker?

[LnGrrrR]

water samples.

But no air samples for chemicals in the air.

[Parker2112]

Half-truths parker? Why are you lying to us?


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/extraterrestrial


http://www.exopolitics.com/

Looks like the debunker did more work than you did on figuring out the context.

FAIL.

if you stretch the intent enough, you get the conclusion you want. But you cant reach that conclusion in good faith unless you impute it to Kucinich too. Is that what your saying?

[TeyshaBlue]

I dont claim to know what why or how. Or even if its harmful.
Then why is this even a concern?

But the evidence is there if your not biased towards skepticism. There is a ton of it in this thread as a matter of fact. But the evidence isnt getting near as much airtime as the namecalling and laughing smilies. Need I say more?
There is no evidence. There's references to things characterized as evidence (mason jars full of water that were extracted by somebody and left in a pick up), but no hard evidence.

The realist embraces a healthy dose of skepticism. Try it sometime.

[TeyshaBlue]

post 143


The edits on the bill following DoD's objections (which are not revealed, as you know) clearly imply what the objected to. You know it I know it she knows it.
Welcome to the tautology club.:lol
What did they object to?

Still waiting.

[LnGrrrR]

you either read it or you didnt. use quotes, or your just blowin hot air.

It says "unfavorable comment". Maybe because DoD doesn't use chemtrails and took offense to that implication.

Speaking of which, how's the wife been since you stopped beating her? I'm getting suspicious that you refuse to answer...

[LnGrrrR]

Also, chaff is dropped by aircrafts to throw off targeting systems.

[RandomGuy]

I finished your youtube post. Aside from the overly dramatic scary music, a key component of propaganda films btw, I see no evidence whatsoever presented. I see lots of "I received tons of emails" and "People everywhere have been sending me letters", but I see nothing in the way of hard evidence. Even assuming that they were able to spray aluminum particles, which is very old oil field tech, there's no deductive chain of logic to follow. Sorry. Heresay is heresay.

Now read how the video in the OP is full of shit:

http://contrailscience.com/what-in-the-world-are-they-spraying/

Chemtrails are one of those funny pseudo-scientific conspiracy theory viruses, like orgone accumulators and so forth that surfaces every once in a while to claim a new useful idiot to propogate itself.

This thread is pure comedy gold.

[Parker2112]

The question will not go-away until you answer it.

For the 6th time it has been asked with no answer.

What *exactly* did the DOD say concerning "chemtrails", Parker?

then Ill ask you for the first time: what color is unicorn meat?
it doesnt matter. The case doesnt have to be open and shut to warrant investigation. And you are trying to reach absolutes in an ambiguous area, that likely deals with national security. And you know this. And you know that the harder we try to pin down exactly what is going on, we have to admit that we dont know. Which is generally the case in top secret matters. as you know.

And your implication that coincedence cant convict is wrong. Which you also know. When circumstantial evidence reaches a certain level, it can send a defendant to jail. Sorry you only deal in absolutes. How convenient to your disingenuous attempt though.

[TeyshaBlue]

then Ill ask you for the first time: what color is unicorn meat?
it doesnt matter. The case doesnt have to be open and shut to warrant investigation. And you are trying to reach absolutes in an ambiguous area, that likely deals with national security.
No it doesn't.

/Thread

See, I can play in the tautology wading pool too!

[LnGrrrR]

Are you still beating your wife or not Parker? By this point, even if you say no, I will probably assume that you are. I wrote down a post asking this, so the question is out there. Why would I post it if it wasn't a valid question? Obviously this story has some real teeth to it. The public deserves the right to know.

[LnGrrrR]

So Parker are you admitting the existence of unicorn meat? I know it's blue, personally.

[Parker2112]

Also, chaff is dropped by aircrafts to throw off targeting systems.

which would = chemtrails. but yet there is no such thing. watch your step!

[Parker2112]

time is up fellas. have a good one. sincerely.

[LnGrrrR]

which would = chemtrails. but yet there is no such thing. watch your step!

Chaff is not made of chemicals.

[RandomGuy]

Kucinich knew perfectly well that the word "extraterrestrial" in the bills original wording meant space aliens, because the people who actually wrote the original bill's language meant it in that manner.


if you stretch the intent enough, you get the conclusion you want. But you cant reach that conclusion in good faith unless you impute it to Kucinich too. Is that what your saying?


#3. If you think that Kucinich didnt know thet language was in the bill, regardless of who wrote it, you are on crack. And that is his effective endorsement of the language, which amounts to the same thing as him drafting it for all intents and purposes. Nothing to see here.



Actually that is what *you* are saying.

:lmao

http://www.trephination.net/gallery/macros/birdcrappedonkid2.jpg

[LnGrrrR]

Note: Parker still refuses to answer the wife beating question. What's he hiding?

[RandomGuy]

So Parker are you admitting the existence of unicorn meat? I know it's blue, personally.

The DOD said it was blue in a top secret paper that I won't show you.

[Winehole23]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/dre1604l.jpg

[LnGrrrR]

The DOD said it was blue in a top secret paper that I won't show you.

I have color samples of deer meat that looks different than normal, thereby proving the existence of unicorn meat.

[RandomGuy]

I have color samples of deer meat that looks different than normal, thereby proving the existence of unicorn meat.

Bet you that deer meat sticks around forever, as opposed to deer meat that I saw as a kid that vanished within minutes.




This thread is comedy gold, I tell ya. I am going to sit down with a couple of good beers this weekend and do a good summary, to show just how fucktarded the things coming out of Parkers keyboard are.

[LnGrrrR]

Bet you that deer meat sticks around forever, as opposed to deer meat that I saw as a kid that vanished within minutes.

Obviously the government has sinister motives. I think I saw a bill once about the life of deer meat being extended, but then it was edited out of the bill so I can't find it.

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.unicornpedia.com/images/unicorn-lady.jpg (http://www.unicornpedia.com/unicorn-lady)

[admiralsnackbar]

JaLjwSpZ6Cs

[MannyIsGod]

So good. :lmao

You couldn't make this shit up.

[Parker2112]

The pattern becomes clearer:
1. Arrogant ST regulars treatened by anything unreported on MSM, and thus non-existent in the main stream paradigm take shelter in laughing emotions and namecalling.




AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS CONCERNED OVER CHEMTRAILS

by William Thomas
Vancouver, Canada Mar. 5, 2002…As continuing chemtrail activity culminated in massive aerial spraying over Vancouver Island and Washington state yesterday- and broadening plumes once again fanned out to haze clear blue skies - Air Traffic Controllers at major airports across the United States expressed concern over the emissions constantly showing up on their radar screens.
"Chemtrails” is the term widely used to describe the brilliant white ‘trails laid down by U.S. Air Force tanker planes photo-identified over North America and a dozen other allied nations in a process the U.S. Air Force calls “aerial obscuration”.
First confirmed by Airport Authority Terry Stewart at the Victoria International Airport on Dec. 8, 2000 as a “joint Canada-U.S. military operation” – and stridently denied by senior officers at Canadian Forces Base (where Stewart later told the Vancouver Courier he had received his information) – these multi-plane missions were verified in March, 2001 by the Air Traffic Control (ATC) manager for the northeastern seaboard of the United States.
In three taped interviews with this reporter and veteran radio journalist S.T. Brendt, our “Deep Sky” source said that he had been ordered to divert incoming commercial flights away from USAF tankers spraying s substance that showed up on ATC radars as a “haze”.
These radar returns are the signature of the fine aluminum particles found in laboratory tests of chemtrail-contaminated rain taken in Espanola, Ontario in the summer of 1999. The lab analysis found reflective quartz particles in the chemtrail fallout – and levels of aluminum five-times higher than Ontario’s maximum permissible health safety standards.
After Canadian government Defense Critic Gordon Earle presented a petition signed by 550 Espanola residents to Parliament in November, 1999 demanding an end to aerial spraying by “commercial or military aircraft, foreign or domestic” which appeared to be making many people sick, DND eventually replied, “It’s not us.”
The aluminum found in chemtrails over Ontario matches the 10 micron aluminum oxide called for in a 1994 patent issued to Hughes Aircraft Company. “Welsbach Seeding for Reduction of Global Warming” refers to spreading highly reflective materials in the atmosphere to reflect enough incoming sunlight (1 to 2%) to slow rapidly-accelerating global warming.
Edward Teller, father of the H-bomb, called for this billion dollar a year “sky shield” program after computer simulations at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory showed it would prevent warming over 85% of the planet’s surface despite a predicted doubling of heat-trapping C02 in the atmosphere over the next 40 years.
But Ken Caldeira – the climate expert who ran the computer model – has warned that the stratospheric spraying of sunlight-reflecting chemicals could “destroy the ozone layer” – and pose human health risks.


CONTROLLERS ACROSS U.S. EXPRESS CONCERN
Starting last December, on heavy “spray days” Deep Sky began calling companion controllers across the country. Were they seeing the same thing on their ‘scopes? What were they being told?
In a fourth interview with reporter S.T. Brendt last week, Deep Sky stated that Air Traffic Controllers at Chicago’s O’Hare airport, all three major airports in New York, Los Angeles LAX, San Francisco, Atlanta, Cleveland, San Diego, Washington DC’s Dulles and Jacksonville, Florida were being ordered to route airliners beneath formations of Air Force tanker planes spraying something that regularly clouds their screens.
Several smaller but busy airports at Westchester County in New York state and Manchester in New Hampshire were also contacted by this an increasingly concerned Deep Sky - and confirmed similar experiences.
Every controller, without exception, is being told to divert traffic due to “military exercises”, and to bring in traffic lower because of experiments that may degrade their radars. The controllers at Cleveland’s airport were surprised by the extent of obscuration on their radars.


CHEMTRAILS SCIENTIST TALKS TO PRESS
Ohio is the home of Wright-Patterson – the air force base working with electromagnetic and weather modification technology. A scientist working at Wright-Pat recently told reporter Bob Fitrakis that two different projects are being conducted. One involves cloud creation experiments to lessen the effect of global warming. Other chemtrails are connected with the military’s extremely high-power Radio Frequency beam weapon in Alaska called HAARP.
“The scientist claims that the two most common substances being sprayed into chemtrails are aluminum oxide and barium stearate. When you see planes flying back and forth marking parallel lines, X-patterns and grids in a clear sky, that’s aluminum oxide, according to the scientist. The goal is to create an artificial sunscreen to reflect solar radiation back into space to alleviate global warming. In some cases, barium may be sprayed in a similar manner for the purpose of “high-tech 3-D radar imaging.” (Columbus Alive Dec. 6, 2001)


HR2977
HR2977 is creating a “buzz” in the Air Traffic Control community. Introduced last October by Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, this bill called for the peaceful uses of space, and a ban on “exotic weapons”. Section 7 of the “Space Preservation Act of 2001” sought specifically to prohibit “chemtrails”.
Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis. The U.S. Space Command’s 2020 vision calls for “dominance” of space, land, sea and air.
Though “section vii” naming chemtrails, HAARP and other planet-threatening weapons has since been removed in a substitute bill - “under pressure” according to Kucinich - the original bill remains intact and on-file in the congressional record.


CONTRAILS VS CHEMTRAILS
The unusual white plumes reported by Air Canada pilots, police officers and former military personnel over Canada and the U.S. during the past three years are often contrasted by brief, pencil-thin contrails left by commercial jets flying above them.
Contrails form when water vapor clumps around dirt particles acting as nuclei. According to NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, contrails can only form at temperatures below minus 76 degrees, and humidity levels of 70 percent or more. Even in ideal conditions, contrails rarely last more than 20 minutes.
But atmospheric studies by NASA and NOAA - including TARFOX, ACE-Asia, ACE-I and II, INDOEX and Project SUCCESS - confirm that artificial clouds and contrails can be manufactured under conditions of low humidity by dispensing particles from aircraft. The smaller the size of the nuclei introduced into the atmosphere, the greater the rate of artificial cloud formation.
Controllers across the United States know from their professional training that these chemicals fall to the ground. Without exception they expressed their concern to Deep Sky about possible risks to human health,
“They want to know what the heck is in there,” S.T. Brendt reported. “One of them said, ‘Aluminum or barium – that’s not something you want to be breathing.’”
Over the last few months, the controller have been told that the troubling aerial operations involve “climate experiments”. Deep Sky’s family continues to experience health problems, including his young son’s gushing nose bleeds and episodes Sudden Onset Acute Asthma in his wife.


MEDIA SNOOZE WHILE VIEWERS LOSE
A working journalist for more than 30 years - with writing and photography appearing in more than 50 publications in eight countries – award-winning Canadian reporter William Thomas says he is exasperated and embarrassed by his profession.
“For the past three years, newspaper editors and TV news directors have been telling me to bring them proof of chemtrails. The more evidence I present, the more they back away from this story. It was the same with Gulf War Illness and all of the unasked questions surrounding 9.11. Once again, it seems that ‘news managers’ would rather cover personalities, predictions and press releases than threats to Canadian sovereignty, the environment and the health of their communities.”
In challenging news people to cover the news, Thomas charges that simply repeating official denials while ignoring a deluge of reports from experts and eye-witnesses across North America is not good enough.
“This is not journalism,” he says. “This is propaganda.”

[ChumpDumper]

Do you have a link for that article?

[Parker2112]

CHEMTRAILS CONFIRMED

by

William Thomas

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



As a resurgence of unusual aerial trails crisscross Canadian skies, official confirmation of chemtrails has come from the U.S. Congress.

“Chemtrails” is the term widely used to describe the brilliant white plumes laid down by U.S. Air Force tanker planes photo-identified over North America and a dozen other allied nations. Unlike normal condensation trails – which form when hot engine exhaust momentarily condenses in the frigid stratosphere like exhaled breath on a cold day - chemical trails linger for hours, turning clear skies into milky haze in a process the U.S. Air Force calls “aerial obscuration”



Chemtrail Ban Sought In Congress

“Chemtrails” also appear in House Resolution 2977. Introduced last October by Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, this bill called for the peaceful uses of space, and a ban on “exotic weapons”. Section 7 of the “Space Preservation Act of 2001” sought specifically to prohibit “chemtrails”.

Kucinich recently told the Columbus Alive newspaper (Jan. 24, 2002) that despite official denials, as head of the Armed Services oversight committee he is well acquainted with chemtrail projects. “The truth is there’s an entire program in the Department of Defense, ‘Vision for 2020,’ that’s developing these weapons,” Kucinich told reporter Bob Fitrakis. The U.S. Space Command’s 2020 vision calls for “dominance” of space, land, sea and air.

The unusual white plumes reported by Air Canada pilots, police officers and former military personnel over Canada and the U.S. during the past three years are often contrasted by brief, pencil-thin contrails left by commercial jets flying above them.

Contrails form when water vapor clumps around dirt particles acting as nuclei. According to NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, contrails can only form at temperatures below minus 76 degrees, and humidity levels of 70 percent or more. Even in ideal conditions, contrails rarely last more than 20 minutes.

But atmospheric studies by NASA and NOAA - including TARFOX, ACE-Asia, ACE-I and II, INDOEX and Project SUCCESS - confirm that artificial clouds and contrails can be manufactured under conditions of low humidity by dispensing particles from aircraft. The smaller the size of the nuclei introduced into the atmosphere, the greater the rate of artificial cloud formation.


Canadians Petition Parliament
Canadians were the first to complain about chemtrails to their federal government. On Nov. 18, 1999, NDP Defense critic Gordon Earl petitioned Parliament on behalf of 550 residents of Espanola, Ontario to “repeal any law that would permit the dispersal of military chaff or of any cloud-seeding substance whatsoever by domestic or foreign military aircraft without the informed consent of the citizens of Canada thus affected.”

According to CBC Newsworld (Aug 29, 1999), “Many in the community have reported respiratory problems and strange aches and pains. Town council heard that some believe military jets are dropping material over the town as part of a weather experiment” - after laboratory tests confirmed the presence of aluminum in rainwater falling through chemtrails over Espanola five-times higher than provincial health safety limits.

The Ministry of Defense eventually replied, “It’s not us.”



Studies Prove Chemtrails Cannot Be Contrails

The “airliner” argument collapsed along with the Twin Towers, when heavy chemtrails were reported over Vancouver Island and widely separated U.S. cities despite the grounding of all commercial flights last Sept. 11, 12 and 13.

Photographs of heavy aerial gridding over Santa Fe, New Mexico and B.C.’s Sunshine Coast also contradict official weather data showing high altitude humidity at the same times and locations to be less than one third the moisture needed for contrails to form.

In Houston, Texas, Mark Steadham conducted a 62 day survey of jet traffic over that busy hub. Using a computer program called Flight Explorer, Steadham identified commercial and military aircraft sharing the same sky. The contrails from commercial jets dissipated within 22 seconds. The plumes left behind at the same time by big military jets persisted for four to eight hours.


Canadian and U.S. Aviation Officials Confirm Chemtrails
The first break in an investigation begun by the Environment News Service in Jan. 1999, came 11 months later when Victoria airport authority Terry Stewart returned a call to a Victoria resident concerned about the X’s and grid patterns being laid over the B.C. capitol. “It’s a military exercise, a U.S. and Canada air force exercise that’s going on,” Stewart reported on Dec. 8, 2000. “They wouldn’t give me any specifics on it.”

The “specifics” came in March the following year, when Maine radio reporter S. T. Brendt called a senior Air Traffic Control manager after she, her news director and staff counted 370 plumes filling skies normally devoid of commercial aircraft. During his hitch in U.S. Navy Intelligence, Brendt’s husband had never seen an aerial armada this big. “It looked like an invasion,” Lou Aubuchont said.

The FAA manager told Brendt he had been ordered to redirect incoming commercial flights around “military exercises” on several occasions that month. In follow-up interviews at the WMWV studios, the government official confirmed widespread chemtrail activity. As they flew north into Canada, he said, the planes were spraying a substance that showed up as a “haze” on Air Traffic Control radar screens.

This characteristic signature of radar beams reflecting off fine aluminum particles confirmed the Espanola lab tests. It also matched a patent issued to Hughes Aircraft Corp. in 1994. This practical blueprint described spraying reflective aluminum particles into Earth’s greenhouse atmosphere, “For the Reduction of Global Warming”.

Computer simulations at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory showed that spraying 10 million tons of aluminum oxide into the upper atmosphere would reflect between one and two percent of incoming sunlight. The predictions promised no net warming over 85 percent of the earth surface, despite a predicted doubling of CO2 within the next 50 years.

The biggest lobby pushing for a reduction in global warming are insurance companies bigger than Big Oil and the international trade in arms. Multinationals such as the Swiss Reinsurance Company and Lloyd’s of London report unsustainable losses incurred by Extreme Weather Events caused by a rapidly warming planet. It is feared that if they go bankrupt, so will the money markets and banks that back them.

Andrew Dlugolecki - director of one of the world’s six biggest insurance groups, CGNU - warned the Hague two years ago that unless action is taken to curb global warming, the resulting damage will exceed the dollar value of all the world’s resources by 2065. “Already we’re beginning to run out of money in the insurance industry,” Dlugolecki declared.

It was Edward Teller, father of the H-bomb, who called for spraying a chemical “sunscreen” at a 1998 International Seminar on Planetary Emergencies. Besides disturbing regional weather patterns, Teller’s chief climate modeler, Ken Caldeira worries about negative health effects. The atmospheric scientist who crunched the numbers on Teller’s “sky shield” further warns such a project could, “destroy the ozone layer”. Caldeira believes the U.S. government will publicly admit to chemtrails this spring.



Health Hazard
Scientists say aluminum oxide as inert as sand poses no toxic threat. But after examining more than 3,000 health studies published since 1997, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency confirmed a strong link between tiny particulates and thousands of premature deaths each year.

According to a New York Times feature, “Tiny Bits of Soot Tied to Illnesses” (April 21, 2001), numerous health studies show that “microscopic motes - composed of metals, carbon and other ingredients - are able to infiltrate the tiniest compartments in the lungs and pass readily into the bloodstream and have been most strongly tied to illness and early death, particularly in people who are already susceptible to respiratory problems.”

In a report headlined, “Tiny particles can kill” New Scientist (Aug. 5, 2000) reported a Harvard “Six Cities” study, which “identified particles with a diameter of less than 10 microns as threat to public health.”


Barium Chemtrails
A scientist working at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base told Columbus Alive (Dec. 6, 2001) that two different chemtrails projects are currently being conducted by the U.S. military. One involves creating clouds to cool global warming.

Chemtrails are also being deployed by the Pentagon to suspend a mixture of barium stearate and fine iron particles as a temporary atmospheric antenna for conducting radio and radar waves over the horizon. The soapy stearate used to carry the airborne iron particles appears in the sky as prismatic bands of color.

Barium-iron chemtrails were reportedly used to create long range radio-and-radar “ducting” during sustained air strikes on Iraq, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. The scientist interviewed by Fitzrakis also stated that barium chemtrails are being used in conjunction with an “atmospheric heater” called HAARP in Gakon, Alaska.

HAARP’s inventor Bernard Eastland told this reporter that the principal purpose of this multi-million watt weapon is to “steer the jet stream” and change the weather. His patent calls for spraying barium in the atmosphere to enhance the effects of HAARP. “Wright-Pat has long been deeply engaged in HAARP’s electromagnetic warfare program,” Eastlund told Columbus Alive.



Electromagnetic Hazards
If some of the chemtrails being sprayed overhead contain compounds for conducting electromagnetic energy, residents of all affected communities could be in even graver danger from the intense electromagnetic radiation emitted by cellphone and microwave transmitter towers, radar installations at military bases, high-voltage power lines, high-power military relay towers and myriad other well-documented sources of "electronic smog" - 15 million times more intense than natural background levels.

Barium chemtrails could accidentally amplify these already hazardous electromagnetic emanations

Canadian military officers at Canadian Forces Base Comox spokesmen have heatedly denied the existence of this joint military operation. But Terry Stewart told the Vancouver Courier (Aug. 15, 2001) that his information confirming the Canada-U.S. military exercise came directly from CFB Comox.

[Parker2112]

Do you have a link for that article?

He cites his info, along with names of interviewees.

Here is the link.

http://www.willthomas.net/chemtrails/Articles/Concerned_over_Chemtrails.htm

[Parker2112]

Hughes Aircraft patent on "chemtrails" (seeding the atmosphere with metallic particles to achieve 1-2% decrease in sunligt that reaches earth surface and curb warming):

Welsbach Seeding Patent for Global Warming PDF (http://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrails/welsbach-seeding.pdf)

[Parker2112]

Will Thomas sells books. Here is his bio, from the same site.



Welcome to the chemtrails section of WillThomas.net
If you are new to chemtrails, a brief introduction is in order. A professional working journalist for more than 30 years, I first reported on chemtrails for the Environment News Service in the winter of 1997. Since then, thousands of websites have appeared claiming various theories and agendas behind a phenomenon witnessed in the skies over 14 allied nations.
Presenting no evidence to back their claims, some sites claim this is a clandestine biowarfare operation aimed at “culling” the human population so that only the elite inherit a ruined Earth. When confronted by the obvious lack of corpses piled high in the streets, these claimants quickly shift gears, stating that chemtrails comprise Part “A” of a binary bioweapon that will be activated later by special radio frequencies, causing everyone not ‘specially inoculated to instantly drop dead.
When asked for documentation or lab tests to back up their assertions, the cull contingent falls silent. Ignoring the illogic inherent in dispersing low concentrations of organisms - or medicine - randomly at sunlight-killing altitudes, other sites state that chemtrails are an aerial vaccine delivered to save us from terrorists who can genetically alter their biological cocktails overnight, instantly nullifying all existing vaccines. The fact that there are not enough vaccines or biowarfare agents on the planet to fill hundreds of tanker planes spraying daily for more than five years does not bother irresponsible Internet hysterics, who peer through microscopes without medical qualifications, or point to lint trapped in home air filters as “proof” of their contradictory contentions.
I even receive calls from people who come away convinced I am part of a cover-up because I will not “admit” that ET space aliens are flying the tanker planes! None of this helps the credibility of chemtrails - or the many conscientious researchers who have spent years delving into this mystery while enduring much ridicule, continuous expense and no pay.
It is easy to make fun of what we don’t understand - and fear. During my time in Kuwait as a member of a three-man environmental emergency response team, with oil raining out of a perpetual “oilcast” onto windshields and Arab garb, I learned that denial is the strongest human propensity. It is also, in this time of murderous government perfidy and runaway global warming, a species-limiting activity. Having researched and written two books dealing with biowarfare – Scorched Earth and Bringing The War Home - I can state for the record that while chemtrails are apparently making many people sick, and could even be linked to some deaths – they are not deliberate biowarfare.
Chemtrails are real.
After a five-year investigation into chemtrails - including interviews with air traffic controllers (thanks to reporter ST Brendt), scientists actually involved in this project (thanks to reporter Bob Fitrakis), NASA and NOAA atmospheric studies, and corroboration from independent scientific lab tests on rain and snow samples falling through chemtrails (thanks to my Espanola correspondent, and Dave Dickie in Edmonton), I can state emphatically that chemtrails are not contrails. So what exactly are chemtrails? And what evidence is offered by the award-winning reporter who first broke this story?

[Parker2112]

proof that Manny is in the dark in his own field of expertise.

tpC4Jkbs6I4

AMAZING video of chemtrail manufacture as well

[Parker2112]

LnG, your dead wrong as well:
1. Chaff is composed of aluminum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaff_(countermeasure)
2. Aluminum is a chemical, which you didnt know...
http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/Aluminum/Aluminum.html

Hence chaff in contrails = chemtrails.

You guys are chalking up L's right and left here, and all the while the "United Skeptics" claim to be more informed on the topic than a member of the US Congress. Its amazing what a lot of arrogance and a biased media can achieve amongst the sheeples...

[MannyIsGod]

LOL the pattern is clear all right.

[MannyIsGod]

LOL calling chaff a chemtrail.

I guess clouds are chem trails too because last time I checked water was a chemical.

[Parker2112]

LOL calling chaff a chemtrail.

I guess clouds are chem trails too because last time I checked water was a chemical.

your butthurt AND in the dark :lmao

your really resorting to "chemical in contrail doesnt make for a chemtrail" argument? Really?

And you are STILL smarter than Kucinich, I see...Manny you are an arrogant dick who cant admit fallibility. :rolleyes

[Parker2112]

last time I checked water was a chemical.

Maybe you can point it out on the periodic table:lol

[Parker2112]

btw, Manny, The article on page 4 quotes Kucinich in local media as specifically stating that there is a DoD program onducting chemtrails, which shoots you and your web sources all to hell. Just as I called yesterday. And my cred is shit?

And instead of dealing with the damage you come back out with laughing emoticons. What an arrogant dick who is afraid to admit fallibility.

[Winehole23]

LOL calling chaff a chemtrail.

I guess clouds are chem trails too because last time I checked water was a chemical

Maybe you can point it out on the periodic table:lolPitiful. This is abysmal ignorance and fail, even for you, Parker.

Do you know why water isn't on the periodic table and why it not being here is not a refutation of what Manny said, in any way?

[Parker2112]

Pitiful. This is abysmal ignorance and fail, even for you, Parker.

Do you know why water isn't on the periodic table and why it not being here is not a refutation of what Manny said, in any way?

1. of course water is a chemical.
2. I was making a bad faith argument to match his.
3. The sarcasm didnt translate with the laughing smiley evidently

[Winehole23]

Your mockery failed either way.

[Parker2112]

and the argument that contrails are chemtrails, and so we shouldnt be concerned is utter trash, to save face. I think he has me beat.

[Winehole23]

I think he has me beat.Yup. It isn't even close.

[Parker2112]

not suprised you back his garbage argument. democratic logic wins the day, and bias buries reality.

[Winehole23]

You cut and paste internet conspiranoia, accept and defend it uncritically, then call anyone who disagrees a blinkered dope.

[Winehole23]

Calling the things you back reflexively "reality" is arrogance and bias of the first order. Just because you believe something doesn't make it real.

[Winehole23]

Parker 2112: the voice of reality. Comedy gold.

[Parker2112]

Winehole, your FOS. I cut and paste proposed legislation and excerpts from interviews with congressmen. I link Hughes Aircraft patents on chemtrail technology. Open discussion from weathermen and local news channels. Local news stories from outside the US, where the media isnt under lock and key.

FOS I say.

[Parker2112]

Calling the things you back reflexively "reality" is arrogance and bias of the first order. Just because you believe something doesn't make it real.

reality doesnt refer to chemtrails. it refers to manny's FAIL above

[Winehole23]

FOS I say.Yes, you are.

[Winehole23]

As usual you got pwned and auto-pwned repeatedly, and you didn't even notice.

[Parker2112]

As usual you got pwned and auto-pwned repeatedly, and you didn't even notice.

pinpoint cites?

[Winehole23]

I pinpointed one of them in this thread already. You're welcome.

[Parker2112]

thats what I thought. If you were calling a fair game, the thread is full of skeptics trying to save face, backtracking, making bad faith arguments ...RG and Manny have been schooled throughout, and both are banking on laughing smilies to save them from full on collapse as they lose on point after point (extraterestrial = ET intel, Kucinich had no part in HR 2977, congressmen dont read bills they sponsor, DoD objection/exotic weapons redaction cant possibly imply chemtrail secret ops, etc, etc)...

[Parker2112]

I pinpointed one of them in this thread already. You're welcome.

and your bias led you to jump to wrong conclusions on this one.
smiley be damned.

btw, your welcome for the info.

[LnGrrrR]

LnG, your dead wrong as well:
1. Chaff is composed of aluminum
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaff_(countermeasure)
2. Aluminum is a chemical, which you didnt know...
http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/Aluminum/Aluminum.html

Hence chaff in contrails = chemtrails.

You guys are chalking up L's right and left here, and all the while the "United Skeptics" claim to be more informed on the topic than a member of the US Congress. Its amazing what a lot of arrogance and a biased media can achieve amongst the sheeples...

Then you yourself are a chemical as well. After all, you're made up of a combination of elements.

Of course, no one says that humans are chemicals because that would be asinine.

[LnGrrrR]

All this obvious evidence of these long-lasting chemtrails, and yet, not one person has gotten an air quality sample from these chemicals while they were still in the air. Amazing.

[LnGrrrR]

And of course, the overwhelming amount of people who say that there are no chemtrails, and all attendant evidence, is outweighed by a few lone nutters with some sketchy puzzle pieces that don't quite fit.

It's Parker's MO.

Too bad he won't answer when he stopped hitting his wife.

[Parker2112]

All this obvious evidence of these long-lasting chemtrails, and yet, not one person has gotten an air quality sample from these chemicals while they were still in the air. Amazing.

again, read the thread.

Hint: try and find the part about commercial aircraft being routed away from military manuevers.

Its amazing that the military can keep things secret? REALLY? :lol

[LnGrrrR]

again, read the thread.

Hint: try and find the part about commercial aircraft being routed away from military manuevers.

Its amazing that the military can keep things secret? REALLY? :lol

Obviously, Parker hasn't paid attention to wikileaks. The government doesn't have some superpower. I'm sure if it's as widespread as you said, some intrepid reporter could take air quality samples.

In fact, the military uses something known as M8 paper, that can test for chemicals. YOu leave it out on target areas, and after an attack, check for droplets. So it's not like you have to be IN the air to get a sample.

[Parker2112]

And of course, the overwhelming amount of people who say that there are no chemtrails, and all attendant evidence, is outweighed by a few lone nutters with some sketchy puzzle pieces that don't quite fit.

It's Parker's MO.

Too bad he won't answer when he stopped hitting his wife.

the fact that it showed up in legislation that got shot down by DoD is enough for anyone without bias to say we cannot know the truth without some additional disclosure. Beyond that, it doesnt matter how many people say it, because like manny says, this country is full of sheep waiting to be told what to believe.

Im not even saying I know wtf is happening, Im saying the questions are valid. And anyone who tries to wave away the implications is blindly and fatally arrogant.

[Parker2112]

Obviously, Parker hasn't paid attention to wikileaks. The government doesn't have some superpower. I'm sure if it's as widespread as you said, some intrepid reporter could take air quality samples.

In fact, the military uses something known as M8 paper, that can test for chemicals. YOu leave it out on target areas, and after an attack, check for droplets. So it's not like you have to be IN the air to get a sample.

the govt may not be good with secrets, but get back to me when wikileaks hits the MIC hard, then we will talk.

[LnGrrrR]

the govt may not be good with secrets, but get back to me when wikileaks hits the MIC hard, then we will talk.

No comment on the ability to test air samples from the ground?

[LnGrrrR]

the fact that it showed up in legislation that got shot down by DoD is enough for anyone without bias to say we cannot know the truth without some additional disclosure. Beyond that, it doesnt matter how many people say it, because like manny says, this country is full of sheep waiting to be told what to believe.

Im not even saying I know wtf is happening, Im saying the questions are valid. And anyone who tries to wave away the implications is blindly and fatally arrogant.

And I'm saying that I'm pretty sure the moon wink at me last night. The fact that I am a soldier in the military who has looked at the moon multiple times adds to my credibility. You can't just handwave my claim away.

[Winehole23]

and your bias led you to jump to wrong conclusions on this one.
smiley be damned.Bullshit. Your attempt to cover your pitiful fail, failed.

[Parker2112]

Read the goddamn thread, dude.
Within this thread, there are
- reports of abnormal water samples,
- abnormal weather radar made public by local media,
- eyewitness accounts,
- inexplicable contrails in very low humidity,
- air traffic controllers accounts,
- citizens complaining to Canadian govt,
- inexplicable illness,
- legislation to ban the activity,
- DoD action to cut the damning language,

and yet there is nothing. That is the epitome of arrogant ignorance.

[Parker2112]

Bullshit. Your attempt to cover your pitiful fail, failed.

and this is yours.

[Parker2112]

And I'm saying that I'm pretty sure the moon wink at me last night. The fact that I am a soldier in the military who has looked at the moon multiple times adds to my credibility. You can't just handwave my claim away.

more of the dismissive mocking in the face of everything above.

Take that list and address each of the issues. till you make it through, save your breath.

[Parker2112]

- reports of abnormal water samples,
- abnormal weather radar made public by local media,
- eyewitness accounts,
- inexplicable contrails in very low humidity,
- air traffic controllers accounts,
- citizens complaining to Canadian govt,
- inexplicable illness,
- legislation to ban the activity,
- DoD action to cut the damning language,

lets add the Hughes aircraft patent to curb global warming as well. Its in the goddamn thread too.

[Parker2112]

No comment on the ability to test air samples from the ground?

if they are doing this right, the particles are staying airborne. next fail please.

[Parker2112]

keep in mind the standard of proof: to create a question of fact. In other words...burden is on you to prove that without a doubt there is no question that chemtrails conspiracy is completely 100% laughable, which is what you and others have been implying.

So in other words get ready to make some phone calls.

[Parker2112]

beyond that is bed time. keep treading LnG, the truth is out there...:tu

[LnGrrrR]

Read the goddamn thread, dude.
Within this thread, there are
- reports of abnormal water samples,
- abnormal weather radar made public by local media

How abnormal? With what frequency are abnormal samples found? Are they accounted for by any other activity?



- inexplicable contrails in very low humidity,

Begging the question. Others have explained the reason for these contrails, you don't accept their evidence.


- air traffic controllers accounts,
- citizens complaining to Canadian govt,

People think they see things all the time. Do you believe in UFOs, ghosts and other phenomena as well?


- inexplicable illness,

If it's inexplicable, how can you link it to the contrails?


- legislation to ban the activity,
- DoD action to cut the damning language,

With no reason of why the DoD cut it. Again, when did you stop hitting your wife?


and yet there is nothing. That is the epitome of arrogant ignorance.

And yet, many people have given reasons, which you choose to not accept. Arrogance indeed.

[ChumpDumper]

keep in mind the standard of proof: to create a question of fact. In other words...burden is on you to prove that without a doubt there is no question that chemtrails conspiracy is completely 100% laughable, which is what you and others have been implying.

So in other words get ready to make some phone calls.lol proving a negative

[TeyshaBlue]

Here’s how you started.


What is your take on chemtrails?

And I promise not to use the sheeple word.

Progressing nicely

You dont have to watch to have an opinion on chemtrails. .

Finally the Premise:

chemtrails aren't conspiracy. they are a man-made phenomena. everybody knows that. .

Now the passive aggressive repeat of the premise;

anyone with a set of eyes who has lived more than 20 years knows the makeup of "contrails" these days is not just condensation.

I have seen distinct X's and Z's cross from horizon to horizon over hours and hours without losing thickness or form. WC, you know enough about the subject to know thats impossible. just sayin.

But Im not really here to convince. Just wondering about the prevailing opinions here at ST is all. .


Again, progressing nicely.

They evidently exist to the United States Government. Wake the fuck up, fools! .

Knowing things without knowing things

Kucinich tried to stop the activity. DOD nipped that shit in the bud. Thats all I need to know WC. .

I at least took a shot at trying to get you to define what a chemtrail was

And let's further define chemtrails before WC gets stuck in a syntax-loop.

Atmospheric seeding is well known...is this a chemtrail activity?
Your answer:

lets make it easy: chemtrails is anything other than contrails.

Contrails dissapate realtively quickly. They dont hold form from horizon to horizon. We see streaks across the sky every day that defy this tendency. I understand the science behind contrails. They are pretty easy to spot actually. They begin dispersing within a matter of minutes...not hours.

A couple of the weather men in those vids posted earlier explain that the military drops chaff to confuse radar, and this likely means there is routine training with the stuff, so that is one form of confirmed type of chemtrail, if you believe those professionals.

I dont claim that there is only one type, or that we are being maliciously poisoned etc, I only claim that there is such a thing as "chemtrails," and that congress has tried to stop the practice.
Some of your conclusions are demonstrably incorrect (contrails dissipate relatively quickly. (*Pro tip* “relatively quickly” actually has no meaning whatsoever.), yet you hold steadfastly to them as if they were physical law.

When I was a kid, the phenomena of the everlasting contrail didnt exist. I remember watching contrails disapate behind fighter jets from my grandmother's front yard almost as fast as they were lain, because I was fascinated by fighter jets as a boy. I dont have any need to disbelieve what my eyes tell me either.

And the debate degenerates from there. This is a fairly common MO for you Parker….you open a topic passively. You’re not here to convince or argue, just wanting to know what ST posters think. When a ST Poster thinks something you don’t want him to think, you finally creep out of that cowardly passive-aggressive stance. Then the futility of debate is realized. You’re not here to debate. You’re here to proclaim your knowledge and make sure we “arrogant” know it alls are put in their place.
And now, you’ll deny this completely and lump me in with the rest of the arrogant know it alls. Fine. Dismissed.:rolleyes

[MannyIsGod]

keep in mind the standard of proof: to create a question of fact. In other words...burden is on you to prove that without a doubt there is no question that chemtrails conspiracy is completely 100% laughable, which is what you and others have been implying.

So in other words get ready to make some phone calls.

:lmao

[RandomGuy]

This is a fairly common MO for you Parker….you open a topic passively. You’re not here to convince or argue, just wanting to know what ST posters think. When a ST Poster thinks something you don’t want him to think, you finally creep out of that cowardly passive-aggressive stance. Then the futility of debate is realized. You’re not here to debate. You’re here to proclaim your knowledge and make sure we “arrogant” know it alls are put in their place.
And now, you’ll deny this completely and lump me in with the rest of the arrogant know it alls. Fine. Dismissed.:rolleyes

Pretty much.

That is how conspiracy theorists work, in general.

Parker has latched on to one of *the* lamest, most fucktarded conspiracy theories in the universe of conspiracy theories.

Logical fallacies, circular logic, and throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

When asked to back up solid assertions, no evidence other than blanket "you know they did it" statements and innuendo is presented.

[LnGrrrR]

I'm pretty sure Parker is a troll, by this point. You'll know I'm right if he pulls up another random conspiracy next.

[Blake]

Here’s how you started.



Progressing nicely
.

Finally the Premise:
.

Now the passive aggressive repeat of the premise;
.


Again, progressing nicely.
.

Knowing things without knowing things
.

I at least took a shot at trying to get you to define what a chemtrail was

Your answer:

Some of your conclusions are demonstrably incorrect (contrails dissipate relatively quickly. (*Pro tip* “relatively quickly” actually has no meaning whatsoever.), yet you hold steadfastly to them as if they were physical law.


And the debate degenerates from there. This is a fairly common MO for you Parker….you open a topic passively. You’re not here to convince or argue, just wanting to know what ST posters think. When a ST Poster thinks something you don’t want him to think, you finally creep out of that cowardly passive-aggressive stance. Then the futility of debate is realized. You’re not here to debate. You’re here to proclaim your knowledge and make sure we “arrogant” know it alls are put in their place.
And now, you’ll deny this completely and lump me in with the rest of the arrogant know it alls. Fine. Dismissed.:rolleyes



:lol

nice job of putting Parker's posts collectively together into one easy to read pile of crap.

[Parker2112]

Its not about proving the negative, its about if your going to throw out hack half ass attempts at dismissal/debunking, BACK YOUR SHIT UP.
Very simple concept.

Still no one touches the substantive info. Ive laid it out, and Ive had the last word on every issue.

Back up the laughing smilies or stfu at this point. :p:

[ChumpDumper]

Its not about proving the negative, its about if your going to throw out hack half ass attempts at dismissal/debunking, BACK YOUR SHIT UP.
Very simple concept.

Still no one touches the substantive info. Ive laid it out, and Ive had the last word on every issue.

Back up the laughing smilies or stfu at this point. :p:There's no need for us to prove anything.

You have made the contention.

You need to back it up.

Currently there is really nothing substantive. Just a bunch of largely contradictory innuendo you claim to be gospel.

My contention? There are no chemtrails.

How do I back that up? No one has proved there are chemtrials.

[Parker2112]

There's no need for us to prove anything.

You have made the contention.

You need to back it up.

Currently there is really nothing substantive. Just a bunch of largely contradictory innuendo you claim to be gospel.

My contention? There are no chemtrails.

How do I back that up? No one has proved there are chemtrials.

That may be true for you, you havent made it a point to mock the topic incessantly, and you are entitled to your own mind as am I.

But others have claimed the topic is laughable. If they want to keep cred, then:
1. when the information is presented creating a question of fact as has been the case, THEN
2. if they want to keep up the laughing smilies, I say the price of admission is to either:
a. deal with the evidence presented in good faith (not just argue over definitions and word usage, mind you, which is the best defense any of the United Skeptics have mounted to this point) or
b. stfu.

And the congressman backing the issue is more than enough to counter a group of patriotic sheep and one amateur know-it-all infallible weather man as far as creating a question of fact. No doubt about it. Kucinich has first hand knowledge, and he has made that knowledge public. 3 scrubs doing internet research cant overcome that very easily.

Now mind you they can continue with the smilies and the dismissive mocking behavior, but once told to put up or shut up, the continued mocking becomes an admission of defeat.

And to continue hiding behind the "cant prove a negative" concept is to admit there is no other shelter for their ignorance. Plain and simple.

[CosmicCowboy]

Did this thread REALLY go NINE pages?

:lmao

[Blake]

But others have claimed the topic is laughable. If they want to keep cred, then:
1. when the information is presented creating a question of fact as has been the case


so you believe you have evidence of questionable evidence.

what do you suggest be done about it and what entity should pursue your request?

[MannyIsGod]

That may be true for you, you havent made it a point to mock the topic incessantly, and you are entitled to your own mind as am I.

But others have claimed the topic is laughable. If they want to keep cred, then:
1. when the information is presented creating a question of fact as has been the case, THEN
2. if they want to keep up the laughing smilies, I say the price of admission is to either:
a. deal with the evidence presented in good faith (not just argue over definitions and word usage, mind you, which is the best defense any of the United Skeptics have mounted to this point) or
b. stfu.

And the congressman backing the issue is more than enough to counter a group of patriotic sheep and one amateur know-it-all infallible weather man as far as creating a question of fact. No doubt about it. Kucinich has first hand knowledge, and he has made that knowledge public. 3 scrubs doing internet research cant overcome that very easily.

Now mind you they can continue with the smilies and the dismissive mocking behavior, but once told to put up or shut up, the continued mocking becomes an admission of defeat.

And to continue hiding behind the "cant prove a negative" concept is to admit there is no other shelter for their ignorance. Plain and simple.

:lmao

[Parker2112]

so you believe you have evidence of questionable evidence.

what do you suggest be done about it and what entity should pursue your request?

informed public is always the best option.

[Parker2112]

:lmao

:lol thats exactly what I thought. It went downhill early, and the best you can do now is posture...the above admission is worth my cost of admission :tu

[Parker2112]

There's no need for us to prove anything.

You have made the contention.

You need to back it up.

Currently there is really nothing substantive. Just a bunch of largely contradictory innuendo you claim to be gospel.

My contention? There are no chemtrails.

How do I back that up? No one has proved there are chemtrials.

Bullshit.

e.g. Trial in a court of law: State rests its case, defense is left to create reasonable doubt. Defense that tries sacheting its way to a verdict is always a loser.

If you want the verdict, you need to deal with the plaintiff's assertions.

Suprised you dont understand how that works.

BTW I dont need to convince anyone. Take a look at my exchange with Teysha earlier. I just presented the OP for viewer's enjoyment. You want to mock my statements, its put up or be owned.

[LnGrrrR]

Parker, the very fact that you dismiss the idea of unicorn meat, when both RG and myself (two very credible witnesses) have confirmed childhood memories of eating it, makes you laughable and arrogant to the extreme.

[Parker2112]

LnG go find something better to do man. As WH, says, your fucking your day debating such a laughable topic, posted by such a laughable poster.

[LnGrrrR]

LnG go find something better to do man. As WH, says, your fucking your day debating such a laughable topic, posted by such a laughable poster.

Your arrogance knows no bounds. You can't prove the non-existence of unicorn meat, can you? And obviously, RG and I aren't the only ones; who do you think made that picture of the Unicorn Meat in a can? There's VISUAL EVIDENCE!

Maybe there was a bill that banned it; I'll look for any bill in the past 40 years concerning canning of animal meat. They probably won't have the words "unicorn meat" in there, but that's just due to the meat industry getting Congressman to edit that out.

[LnGrrrR]

Bullshit.

e.g. Trial in a court of law: State rests its case, defense is left to create reasonable doubt. Defense that tries sacheting its way to a verdict is always a loser.

If you want the verdict, you need to deal with the plaintiff's assertions.

Suprised you dont understand how that works.

BTW I dont need to convince anyone. Take a look at my exchange with Teysha earlier. I just presented the OP for viewer's enjoyment. You want to mock my statements, its put up or be owned.

Where's your reasonable doubt about Unicorn Meat Parker?

You want to mock my posts? Put up or be owned. Prove that RG and I never ate Unicorn Meat as kids. Or just keep using smilies and insults, and run away from the TRUE topic.

[ChumpDumper]

Bullshit.

e.g. Trial in a court of law: State rests its case, defense is left to create reasonable doubt. Defense that tries sacheting its way to a verdict is always a loser.

If you want the verdict, you need to deal with the plaintiff's assertions.

Suprised you dont understand how that works.

BTW I dont need to convince anyone. Take a look at my exchange with Teysha earlier. I just presented the OP for viewer's enjoyment. You want to mock my statements, its put up or be owned.In a court of law, the state has to make is prima facie case, otherwise the defense doesn't have to do jack.

You have not done so in this instance.

Is "sachet" ever used as a verb?

[Blake]

informed public is always the best option.

inform that there might be something wrong?

what purpose does that serve aside from fearmongering?

[Blake]

In a court of law, the state has to make is prima facie case, otherwise the defense doesn't have to do jack.

You have not done so in this instance.

Is "sachet" ever used as a verb?

not surprised he thinks he knows how it works but just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he doesn't.

[DMX7]

I just presented the OP for viewer's enjoyment. You want to mock my statements, its put up or be owned.

Parker just PWNED himself. Go back to watching 9/11 conspiracy tapes, fag.

[Parker2112]

Where's your reasonable doubt about Unicorn Meat Parker?

You want to mock my posts? Put up or be owned. Prove that RG and I never ate Unicorn Meat as kids. Or just keep using smilies and insults, and run away from the TRUE topic.

such a losing example on so many levels. what you think is hammering home your point is complete waste of time, fucking your day at that.

[Parker2112]

Where's your reasonable doubt about Unicorn Meat Parker?

You want to mock my posts? Put up or be owned. Prove that RG and I never ate Unicorn Meat as kids. Or just keep using smilies and insults, and run away from the TRUE topic.

fail. you cant even make a single intelligent correlation between chemtrails and the bullshit that RG spouted off about, which was dealt with pages ago. And yet you continue to carry the torch like your life depends on it.

[Parker2112]

In a court of law, the state has to make is prima facie case, otherwise the defense doesn't have to do jack.

You have not done so in this instance.

Is "sachet" ever used as a verb?

Kucinich's testimony alone is capable of conviction. try again. There are two referenced interviews where he addresses chemtrails as a real DoD program. You dont think his testimony would avoid a summary judgment? Really?

[Parker2112]

inform that there might be something wrong?

what purpose does that serve aside from fearmongering?

If there were a suspicious male standing at the intersection nearest to your house, would it be fear mongering if your neighbor told you so?

Would it not benefit the situation to get as many eyes on the situation as possible?

With a hard description, isnt it possible that someone might ID him? Or at least you can keep an eye out to protect your family? Or if a cop lives in your 'hood, he might go question the guy?

What is the worst thing that you can do? Answer: dont say shit, and let the neighborhood be in the dark about the whole affair.

[Parker2112]

In a court of law, the state has to make is prima facie case, otherwise the defense doesn't have to do jack.

You have not done so in this instance.

Is "sachet" ever used as a verb?

learn to sachet!
http://www.answerbag.com/video/sachet-jazz-dance-tips/332019cb-ca9b-6cc1-d697-ab8be473a709

[Parker2112]

not surprised he thinks he knows how it works but just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt he doesn't.

I said I already made my case. Kucinich alone makes for prima facie evidence. try again.

[Parker2112]

Parker just PWNED himself. Go back to watching 9/11 conspiracy tapes, fag.

Says the guy who says we should be good Americans and let the govt have their way with our wives and kids. And Fag? Really Are you 15 years old? :lol

Go do some homework boy...