Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona

[Winehole23]

he began to use her situation...

Heinous.

[MannyIsGod]

I am not mad, I'm calling you out for 1) being a self-absorbed prick 2) who couldnt even find it in his heart to express sympathy for this woman before 3) he began to use her situation 4) to bolster his own personal arguments 5) as she was bleeding in an operating room.

Your a POS dude. Deal.

Being called self absorbed by someone who thinks they're the one coming to the cave to educate the rest of us here and reminds us on a daily basis is rich.

I expressed sympathy whether or not I posted it. My sole form of communication is not this forum. I have this thing called a mouth.

I don't know why you needed to separate the final three bullets but thats besides the point. My initial response was to Tpark and Scott about how a discussion would need to take place if it turned out this was a politically motivated attack. I'd not fight any assertion that was has followed would be found in poor taste by any member of the family but I also don't think they're reading Spurstalk so I really don't see a need to censor myself considering what this forum is.

You're completely entitled to think of me as a POS. None of that changes the fact that Jared Loughner was a nut job who preached some crazy shit that happens to be your ideology as well. You yourself mentioned how there would have to be violence in your revolution in this very thread. If you really feel bad about that, then perhaps you should evaluate your ideology.

[MannyIsGod]

lol @ the enumeration of misdeeds in #250.

I found them pretty LOLable myself.

[Winehole23]

The conceit of a five pronged attack would seem formidable, until one examines the individual prongs. The failure of which varies directly with hilarity.

Parker memorializes all his failures, as victories.




(Hence, continual self-memorialization)

[RandomGuy]

Chemfail-boy strikes again...

[Parker2112]

Being called self absorbed by someone who thinks they're the one coming to the cave to educate the rest of us here and reminds us on a daily basis is rich.

I expressed sympathy whether or not I posted it. My sole form of communication is not this forum. I have this thing called a mouth.

I don't know why you needed to separate the final three bullets but thats besides the point. My initial response was to Tpark and Scott about how a discussion would need to take place if it turned out this was a politically motivated attack. I'd not fight any assertion that was has followed would be found in poor taste by any member of the family but I also don't think they're reading Spurstalk so I really don't see a need to censor myself considering what this forum is.

You're completely entitled to think of me as a POS. None of that changes the fact that Jared Loughner was a nut job who preached some crazy shit that happens to be your ideology as well. You yourself mentioned how there would have to be violence in your revolution in this very thread. If you really feel bad about that, then perhaps you should evaluate your ideology.

So you concede you look really fucking POS low after this thread. OK.

Now, how is it that someone so smart as yourself doesnt first tie this gunman's act to the fact that he was been made to kill foriegners in far away lands?

At a time when service men and women admit that they engage in sport in Iraq and Afghanistan killing innocent men and women for pleasure...at a time when these same men and women are coming home to no safety net and no jobs, how is it that someone as smart as yourself cant see the tie between the state of the union and the state of our military and this act?

How is it that you villainize a political opponent first, and declare an opposing political view as being responsible for this crazy killer's act (he was a killer for the US Govt first)?

Because your too smart to see the obvious? Please.

Again, you would fit right in with a republican administration who uses every concievable stretch to bash the opposition and usurp freedoms from the American people. Again, GFY.

[Crookshanks]

Reports are that the shooter used a hand gun

[MannyIsGod]

So you concede you look really fucking POS low after this thread. OK.

Now, how is it that someone so smart as yourself doesnt first tie this gunman's act to the fact that he was been made to kill foriegners in far away lands?

At a time when service men and women admit that they engage in sport in Iraq and Afghanistan killing innocent men and women for pleasure...at a time when these same men and women are coming home to no safety net and no jobs, how is it that someone as smart as yourself cant see the tie between the state of the union and the state of our military and this act?

How is it that you villainize a political opponent first, and declare an opposing political view as being responsible for this crazy killer's act (he was a killer for the US Govt first)?

Because your too smart to see the obvious? Please.

Again, you would fit right in with a republican administration who uses every concievable stretch to bash the opposition and usurp freedoms from the American people. Again, GFY.

I concede that you can consider me a POS. Thats for you to decide.

I can't see those ties because he does nothing to mention those ties in his videos. He rants above currency and brain washing like you do. I swear to god had you not been posting here I would have asked Kori if you had an Arizona IP, Parker.

From his videos, the only thing that he bitches about concerning the army is that he was given a bible. His favorite video on his channel is a flag burning with a Drowning Pool song called "Bodies" (the refrain is "let the bodies hit the floor") so I don't know why I would ever connect this to some type of over seas killing that he had a problem with (we don't even know if he was ever overseas or ever killed anyone prior to today).

[RandomGuy]

So you concede you look really fucking POS low after this thread. OK.

Now, how is it that someone so smart as yourself doesnt first tie this gunman's act to the fact that he was been made to kill foriegners in far away lands?

At a time when service men and women admit that they engage in sport in Iraq and Afghanistan killing innocent men and women for pleasure...at a time when these same men and women are coming home to no safety net and no jobs, how is it that someone as smart as yourself cant see the tie between the state of the union and the state of our military and this act?

How is it that you villainize a political opponent first, and declare an opposing political view as being responsible for this crazy killer's act (he was a killer for the US Govt first)?

Because your too smart to see the obvious? Please.

Again, you would fit right in with a republican administration who uses every concievable stretch to bash the opposition and usurp freedoms from the American people. Again, GFY.

You're right.

People who think that our currency is a conspiracy should be kept away from fire arms.

Thank you for your insight, I fully agree. :tu





HA!

[MannyIsGod]

The conceit of a five pronged attack would seem formidable, until one examines the individual prongs.

Nice.

What I really want to know is whether or not Parker finds Tyson Chandler's post plausible. I expected that post to come from Parker to be quite honest, but perhaps he was just preoccupied with me.

[Winehole23]

You just poked him with a sharp stick, I think. lol.

[Winehole23]

Crofl manny is the stereotypical brainwashed sheeple.http://www.stayfitbug.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/broken-record.jpg


Who's a broken record?

[CosmicCowboy]

Unfortunately this guy sounds like a fucking nutcase.

Sadly, it sometimes IS that simple.

[CuckingFunt]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20147e162af25970b-800wi

The crosshairs are a nice touch.

[Winehole23]

@CC:

If it really is that simple maybe we could start killing nutcases preventively. Whaddya think?

[CuckingFunt]

There isn't a face palm big enouh for this.

This one works nicely:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5088/impliedfacepalmba.jpg

[Blake]

The crosshairs are a nice touch.

I think the three that are red, in effect meaning a kill shot, is an even nicer touch.

[CuckingFunt]

According to the AP report, an unnamed official said the attack was done with an automatic weapon, so a lot of good gun control laws did there if true.

What do you mean a lot of good the gun control laws did? They obviously didn't work if he had a gun and it was banned!

With sarcastic replies to sarcastic statements, someone really ought to use blue text or clever faux sarcasm tags. Any more of this and heads might explode.

[Winehole23]

Maybe a few more heads need to implode. Nature abhors a vacuum

[CosmicCowboy]

The crosshairs are a nice touch.

Yeah, this is clearly Sarah Palin's fault.

[CuckingFunt]

I want to know why he did it - that's why I said interrogate him. But once they ascertain his motive - take him out and put him down like a rabid dog!

This attitude disgusts me.

[CuckingFunt]

He certainly had no respect for human life. He was seen shooting the gun and was pretty much caught in the act - what's a trial going to show us - that we was abused or was a bed-wetter, and we should feel sorry for him?

Treating someone like a human being isn't the same thing as feeling sorry for them.

[ElNono]

Sad day in America. Condolences to her family. Lots of stupid, gullible and angry people out there.

[Crookshanks]

Some remarks from a person who once knew him:

As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.

he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class

He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was "stupid & unintelligent"

===========

Yeah, he sounds just like a Tea Party member

[rascal]

So, if it were illegal to own guns, this person wouldn't have been able to acquire one?

Maybe not if he could not buy one easily and had no other connections to acquire a gun.

[MannyIsGod]

Some remarks from a person who once knew him:

As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy.

he was a pot head & into rock like Hendrix,The Doors, Anti-Flag. I haven't seen him in person since '07 in a sign language class

He was a political radical & met Giffords once before in '07, asked her a question & he told me she was "stupid & unintelligent"

===========

Yeah, he sounds just like a Tea Party member

So I should take the word over someone who barely knew him as opposed to his own? His videos are very very very tea partyish. The currency and constitution talk in there.

Go look at then them let me know thats left wing. Thanks.

Also I see no good reason to sully the good Hendrix name with this nonsense.

[CuckingFunt]

Yeah, he sounds just like a Tea Party member

Does it really matter?

Even if the shooter was a bleeding heart lefty I would hope his actions would force leaders on both sides of the fence to look at the implications of their messages and recognize that perhaps it's best to avoid the use of images and terminology that bring to mind a shootout.

[rascal]

So I should take the word over someone who barely knew him as opposed to his own? His videos are very very very tea partyish. The currency and constitution talk in there.

Go look at then them let me know thats left wing. Thanks.

Also I see no good reason to sully the good Hendrix name with this nonsense.

Who put this out? Looks like someone is trying to distant themselves from this nut because they know the fallout is coming.

[Crookshanks]

Does it really matter?

Even if the shooter was a bleeding heart lefty I would hope his actions would force leaders on both sides of the fence to look at the implications of their messages and recognize that perhaps it's best to avoid the use of images and terminology that bring to mind a shootout.

Does it really matter? Not really - but there were so many people who were very quick to place the blame for this on Sarah Palin and the Tea Party. A State Senator was talking about it before we knew ANYTHING about the shooter; and they just showed a quick clip from a vigil being held in Arizona and the guy was blaming Sarah Palin.

So I think maybe EVERYONE should just stop placing blame on anyone except Jarad Loughner! This is a tragedy - and there are still bodies laying in the parking lot of the Safeway - let's keep that in mind. Rep Giffords sounds like a very nice woman - I might not agree with all her views, but I would never wish violence on her.

[Stringer_Bell]

Awful news, respects to the families involved. It's absolutely terrible that our Congress men and women can pay such a price for simply meeting with their communities.

+1 to Crooks, this isn't the Tea Party or CodePink or whatever's fault, it's the shooter's fault.

[frodo]

Nice.

What I really want to know is whether or not Parker finds Tyson Chandler's post plausible. I expected that post to come from Parker to be quite honest, but perhaps he was just preoccupied with me.

at least i found his posts with proper comprehension.

[frodo]

Being called self absorbed by someone who thinks they're the one coming to the cave to educate the rest of us here and reminds us on a daily basis is rich.

I expressed sympathy whether or not I posted it. My sole form of communication is not this forum. I have this thing called a mouth.

I don't know why you needed to separate the final three bullets but thats besides the point. My initial response was to Tpark and Scott about how a discussion would need to take place if it turned out this was a politically motivated attack. I'd not fight any assertion that was has followed would be found in poor taste by any member of the family but I also don't think they're reading Spurstalk so I really don't see a need to censor myself considering what this forum is.

You're completely entitled to think of me as a POS. None of that changes the fact that Jared Loughner was a nut job who preached some crazy shit that happens to be your ideology as well. You yourself mentioned how there would have to be violence in your revolution in this very thread. If you really feel bad about that, then perhaps you should evaluate your ideology.

http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/65500/Reading-Comprehension--65516.jpg

[Shelly]

The Pima County Sheriff said there is another suspect that's in his 50s

He's also pretty imformative as much as he's able to...

[frodo]

Can't your dumbass see that he's a government plant? They want to paint anyone who disagrees with big Government as the new age "terrorists" as a way to soften us up to take away our guns. All in the name of "your own safety."

they allowed a woman to shoot dead 5 & wound a number. there were security guards around her i believe but they had apparently forfeited their duties. another tragedy that could have been prevented, pretty much like the 9/11 and pearl harbour

[Crookshanks]

It's very sad that the Judge just stopped by to say hello - talk about wrong place at the wrong time.

Earlier on Fox, they interviewed a man who is a doctor and was at the event. In fact, he helped the Aide who tackled the shooter hold him until Police arrived. He said it was a very small gathering, and just about everyone who was there was shot.

[Shelly]

He sure was at the wrong place at the wrong time and I can't help to think that the little girl that was shot was probably just going to the grocery store with her mother :(

6 confirmed dead now.

[PublicOption]

I think the three that are red, in effect meaning a kill shot, is an even nicer touch.


now Sarah can put red crosshairs on Az8.

[PublicOption]

a 9 year girl died.

thank Fox......and thanks WOAI radio.

210-736-9700

[TacoCabanaFajitas]

Was sick today at work after hearing this. Happened 5 minutes from my home and I went to high school with this fucking asshole

[Yonivore]

From DailyKos (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/25/1204/74882/511/541568)...


Who to primary? Well, I'd argue that we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week. I've bolded members of the Blue Dogs for added emphasis.
...
[guess who's bolded on his list]

Giffords, Gabrielle (AZ-08)
...

Not all of these people will get or even deserve primaries, but this vote certainly puts a bulls eye on their district.

Manny's instincts nothwithstanding, I'm hearing this guy is a) a fucking nut and b) a bit of a leftie -- if, in fact, he can be associated with any political ideology at all.

What say you TacoCabana? Remember the prick?

[Nbadan]

Condolences to the family.....a suspicious package has been found in Gifford's office....is this part of a more organized attack?

7:39 PM ET Suspicious Package At Giffords Office


According to KGUN: Giffords' Tucson office has been evacuated due to a suspicious package.

[Yonivore]

Condolences to the family.....a suspicious package has been found in Gifford's office....is this part of a more organized attack?

7:39 PM ET Suspicious Package At Giffords Office
It's been suggested there may be a connection with the incendiaries received by other officials earlier this week.

[Nbadan]

It may be political, but not in a sense of right versus left political.....more to come...

in the meantime, youtube has some of his videos..

http://www.youtube.com/profile?annotation_id=annotation...

[Parker2112]

Its not about him, its about us. We're either animals like him who want revenge (hello Crookshanks!) or we're a society with laws and rules....

The ol' them or us...what a POS fascist. Hitler would have had much use for you, Manny. Bush too.

[boutons_deux]

Good old Yoni, disowning and slandering, in his mouth, this nutcase as a leftie.

Lefties don't whine about the Constitution or currency or gold. That's the whining exclusive to Repugs, Conservatives, libertarians, BecKKKtards, NRA gun fetishists, bubbas, tea baggers, red-staters.

[Blake]

The ol' them or us...what a POS fascist. Hitler would have had much use for you, Manny. Bush too.

so you are ok with vigilante justice?

Judge Roy Bean might have had use for you.

[Yonivore]

http://www.verumserum.com/media/2010/03/DLC-Targeting-map.gif
More Democrat violence mongering.

[Nbadan]

Found this copy of what is purported to be a manifesto from his My Space page. While everything is still under investigation, as the writer points out, this very much appears to be the work of a mentally ill, delusional person.

http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2011/01/08/full-text-of-jared-lee-loughner-delusional-rant-on-conscience-dreaming

[MannyIsGod]

Thats the text he had in his youtube videos. His goodbye video has crazier things in it. He rambles about currency and what he perceives as most of governments laws as being unconstitutional.

About the only thing people have to paint this guy as any sort of leftist and not a nutjob version of a libertarian/anarchocapitalist is that he listed the communist manifesto as one of his favorite books while ignoring the rest of his listed reading.

[boutons_deux]

Giffords Discussed Palin Rhetoric in March 2010

In an eerie flashback to March 2010, Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford discusses rhetoric and violence in the aftermath of the vote on heath care reform. Her office had been just been vandalized.

When asked if she was afraid she said that she was not, but said that the "rhetoric is incredibly heated."

She went on to say, "We are on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the way that she has it depicted has the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/veronica-conway/gifford-discussed-palin-r_b_806270.html?view=print

[Crookshanks]

He sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic - I doubt if he even knows what his political views are! He's just mad at the world.

[Nbadan]

She went on to say, "We are on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the way that she has it depicted has the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action."

That's an incredible statement right there...

[Nbadan]

At first sight, Loughner seems to be more Ron Paulish than wing-nutish....


Jared Lee Loughner, arrested in connection with the shooting of Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford and others, posted a YouTube "manifesto" of sorts in December. The video discusses, in a rather incoherent manner, the "new currency." Currency is a staple of Tea Party rhetoric, just as it has been a staple over the history of the Nativist right. The fears of the far right always have been that the Federal Reserve system will sink the country by printing funny money.

During his 2008 campaign for the presidency, and many times since then, libertarian Ron Paul warned against paper money. Various Tea Party groups have joined in raising the alarm against the dangers of printing money, and some have even suggested using an alternative currency of silver and gold.

There is another tangent in the paper money discussion, which holds that Jews are behind the Federal Reserve system, and are working behind the scene to destroy the true American Republic. It is worth noting that Giffords is the first Jewish member of Congress in Arizona's history.

Mother Jones (http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/01/giffords-alleged-shooter-made-video-showing-obsession-currency-tea-party-staple?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Motherjones%2Fmojoblog+%28Mot herJones.com+)

[baseline bum]

It'll be interesting to see if he's a schizophrenic or just a pissed off Alex Jones fan. I have my doubts that he's really insane based on his actions and planning, having known insane people.

[baseline bum]

He sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic - I doubt if he even knows what his political views are! He's just mad at the world.

Sounds more like a sociopath who knew exactly what he was doing.

[MannyIsGod]

The fact that he got taken alive and is not talking really does not lend me to believe he's schizo or insane.

[boutons_deux]

Sounds more drug-addled and brain-fried, which of course have mind-split as a symptom.

His friends and family, if he has any that will own up, may provide details.

Anyway, this episode will disappear in 15 minutes anyway.

The FCM was in a flat period anyway.

[baseline bum]

The fact that he got taken alive and is not talking really does not lend me to believe he's schizo or insane.

Yeah, there's a major difference between being delusional and mentally ill.

[Nbadan]

Cool....her brother-in-law is on the space station right now...

[Nbadan]

the latest on Gifford's condition..



KSAZ-TV is reporting Congresswoman Giffords is awake, recognized her husband and spoke to people in her hospital room.

Link (http://www.breakingnews.com/seed/ahBicmVha2luZ25ld3Mtd3d3cg0LEgRTZWVkGJevoQIM/2011/01/09/ksaz-tv-is-reporting-congresswoman-giffords-is-awake-recognized-her-husband-and-spoke-to-people-in-her-hospital-room)

[MannyIsGod]

Whats interesting to me is this 50 year old other man they were looking for. Is that still the case?

[Nbadan]

The latest updates fail to mention anything about accomplices...the scene was horrific...she was shot almost point blank in the head...


Mark Kimball, a communications staffer for Giffords, described the scene as "just complete chaos, people screaming, crying." The gunman fired at Giffords and her district director and started shooting indiscriminately at staffers and others standing in line to talk to the congresswoman, Kimball said.

"He was not more than three or four feet from the congresswoman and the district director," he said.

Link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shot-c_n_806211.html)

[Stringer_Bell]

Using the links provided on here to the shooter's sites and rants, not to scare anyone or sound crazy, but I find it very hard to believe that this is a simple case of political motivations overtaking a person or mental illness. The mind control he's writing about isn't external, it's internal and the way he writes and purposely uses awful grammar and spelling is done on purpose. I'm not a Doctor of psychology nor a professional criminal analyst but it's quite obvious to me that his intent was to be the Mind Controller. He wants a law passed because of his actions, and he wants the law to be a reflection of the over-reaching government that he believes to be at work (a self-fulfilling prophecy) - he wants an eternal place in the "corrupt system of belief" that he claims the country exists in. That's the best way I can explain it without giving myself a headache.

But yea, I think this dude wants every American to be searched/frisked/scanned before poltical rallies of any kind...and he used freshmen year syllogisms as his manifesto. Pretty fucking pretentious, let's see if our lawmakers bite.

[frodo]

^ he also wants everyone here to admit him as a decent troll

[Nbadan]

whatever his history in other forum, in here he's not a troll..

[cherylsteele]

if it were illegal they wouldn't be as prominent in society and easy to obtain.
Kinda like drugs I guess?

[ducks]

Sounds more drug-addled and brain-fried, which of course have mind-split as a symptom.

His friends and family, if he has any that will own up, may provide details.

Anyway, this episode will disappear in 15 minutes anyway.

The FCM was in a flat period anyway.


this will not go away in 15 minutes

[Nbadan]

Will there be any Palin fall out? Should there be?

2tTDiZZYCAs

[Venti Quattro]

That is so horrible. Condolences

[ducks]

Originally Posted by rascal View Post

This is the problem. Too much hatred coming out of conservative talk radio and the tea party movement and their followers. No doubt it most likely is some wacko that took their views to an extreme.
so if you do not agree with what is going on in dc it it wrong to talk about it?

it is not wrong to talk about what is going on in dc


this person is not a tea parter but a terriost and should be tried as one

[ducks]

Will there be any Palin fall out? Should there be?

2tTDiZZYCAs

lol at blaming this on palin

you liberals are pathetic
you use anything to try to get polictially advantage

[DMX7]

I can't wait untill Rush Limbaugh weights in!

[boutons_deux]

Arizona shooter left trail of anti-government screeds on Internet

Conservatives derided and dismissed an April 2009 report by the Department of Homeland Security warning law enforcement officials of a spike in homegrown "rightwing extremism" fueled in part by "antigovernment" sentiments, which in retrospect appears to have been a chilling omen for the tragic Arizona shooting Satuday.

the DHS defined "rightwing" in part as groups and individuals "that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely."

conservatives slammed the report as a political attack.

Commentator Michelle Malkin called it a "hit job on conservatives" and "one of the most embarrassingly shoddy pieces of propaganda I’d ever read out of DHS. I couldn’t believe it was real."

Various conservative bloggers joined them in denouncing the report as an attack on political opponents, and one right-wing group even filed a lawsuit against DHS.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/flashback-conservatives-mocked-dhs-report-warning-antigovernment-violence/

============

Conservatives, Repugs, assholes, every last one them, along with their Bible-thumping literalist/creationist supremacist "Christians". iow, the Usual Suspects dividing and fucking up America to the benefit of the VRWC.

[rascal]

lol at blaming this on palin

you liberals are pathetic
you use anything to try to get polictially advantage

You got it wrong the conservatives use anything like conservative talk radio to drum their propaganda over and over again. There are radio stations which are mainstream media although they cry about mainstream media all the time that only play conservative talk radio all day. If you are weak minded like yourself you will listen and believe the propaganda.

[Stringer_Bell]

so if you do not agree with what is going on in dc it it wrong to talk about it?

it is not wrong to talk about what is going on in dc

It's not wrong, but the information that Rush, Hannity, and Palin provide is blatantly disingenuous yet STILL manages to stir up people to parade their guns around and claim that a revolution is needed to reverse Obama's policies. Those assholes don't understand that a lot of what is wrong with the country today started in the early years of last century. They don't acknowledge that we need ideas for our course to be reversed and voices that can help realize that we as a country need to sacrifice if we want to get out of this without killing each other. Radio/TV/Internet media personalities and people can criticize and talk shit all they want about whoever you want for whatever reason, but at least offer an alternative. Rush and company (Liberals included) have an obvious interest in keeping their friends in power, they don't care about "the people."

@frodo: You're a hobbit account.

[ElNono]

He used a 9mm... the real question is who used him...

[rascal]

so if you do not agree with what is going on in dc it it wrong to talk about it?

it is not wrong to talk about what is going on in dc


this person is not a tea parter but a terriost and should be tried as one

Nothing wrong about talking about it but if you don't believe their goals are to work up passion to a point of hatred you are a moron.

[boutons_deux]

And who can forget (except willfully), that stupid loser bitch Angle, pitbull bitch protege, saying 2nd Amendment "remedies" might be required.

I won't be surprised if "bubba see, bubba do" copycat right-wing shooters "remedy" other Dem politicians.

[ducks]

Nothing wrong about talking about it but if you don't believe their goals are to work up passion to a point of hatred you are a moron.

well some people get worked up because they see how the reb and dem go at it in congress

it does tend to divide the country

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Arizona shooter left trail of anti-government screeds on Internet

Conservatives derided and dismissed an April 2009 report by the Department of Homeland Security warning law enforcement officials of a spike in homegrown "rightwing extremism" fueled in part by "antigovernment" sentiments, which in retrospect appears to have been a chilling omen for the tragic Arizona shooting Satuday.

the DHS defined "rightwing" in part as groups and individuals "that are mainly antigovernment, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely."

conservatives slammed the report as a political attack.

Commentator Michelle Malkin called it a "hit job on conservatives" and "one of the most embarrassingly shoddy pieces of propaganda I’d ever read out of DHS. I couldn’t believe it was real."

Various conservative bloggers joined them in denouncing the report as an attack on political opponents, and one right-wing group even filed a lawsuit against DHS.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/flashback-conservatives-mocked-dhs-report-warning-antigovernment-violence/

============

Conservatives, Repugs, assholes, every last one them, along with their Bible-thumping literalist/creationist supremacist "Christians". iow, the Usual Suspects dividing and fucking up America to the benefit of the VRWC.


You're a fucking idiot. This guy quoted the Communist Manifesto. His youtube stream preaches anarchy to oppose what's going on in our country today.

The guy is just crazy, but if you're trying to slap a political party tag on him, the communist and anarchist views make him a through and through leftie.

[DMX7]

You're a fucking idiot. This guy quoted the Communist Manifesto. His youtube stream preaches anarchy to oppose what's going on in our country today.

The guy is just crazy, but if you're trying to slap a political party tag on him, the communist and anarchist views make him a through and through leftie.

That must be why he shot a democratic congresswomen.

[ducks]

It's not wrong, but the information that Rush, Hannity, and Palin provide is blatantly disingenuous yet STILL manages to stir up people to parade their guns around and claim that a revolution is needed to reverse Obama's policies. Those assholes don't understand that a lot of what is wrong with the country today started in the early years of last century. They don't acknowledge that we need ideas for our course to be reversed and voices that can help realize that we as a country need to sacrifice if we want to get out of this without killing each other. Radio/TV/Internet media personalities and people can criticize and talk shit all they want about whoever you want for whatever reason, but at least offer an alternative. Rush and company (Liberals included) have an obvious interest in keeping their friends in power, they don't care about "the people."

@frodo: You're a hobbit account.

so the right wing nuts are not ok to listen to
but what about the left nut wing nuts shows ?
guns do not kill people
people kill people
drugs do not kill people
people who take drugs ....

[ducks]

You got it wrong the conservatives use anything like conservative talk radio to drum their propaganda over and over again. There are radio stations which are mainstream media although they cry about mainstream media all the time that only play conservative talk radio all day. If you are weak minded like yourself you will listen and believe the propaganda.

I can not stand rush
I think he is a self center jerk
but I can not stand liberal media people either

[ducks]

Kinda like drugs I guess?

yeah making guns illegal will solve the problem

this nut would never be able to get a gun:lmao:lmao:lmao

laws to take guns away would only help the crime go up
ask the police in az

[rascal]

so the right wing nuts are not ok to listen to
but what about the left nut wing nuts shows ?
guns do not kill people
people kill people
drugs do not kill people
people who take drugs ....

Where are the left wing shows? No where near the same representaion as the conservative talk shows.

[ducks]

cnn.............
on 24/7

[Nbadan]

ducks is like a baby....even the Sheriff is denouncing the political climate in Arizona...and more on a possible second suspect

Dupnik: There May Be a Second Person Involved
by Jimmy Boegle



Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik says that law enforcement has a reason to believe another person is involved in the shootings of Judge John Roll, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others today. "We’re not convinced that he acted alone," he said at a news conference at Westward Look resort.

He confirmed that there were 19 people injured and that six people are dead.
He also refused to identify any suspects, although the name of shooter Jared Lee Loughner has been widely reported.

He said that two "brave individuals" tackled the shooter, and that Roll was in the wrong place at the wrong time, as he'd simply shown up to say hello to his friend Giffords.

Update: He said a semi-automatic weapon was used and that all 19 victims were shot. He also angrily denounced the vitriolic political climate of today—especially in Arizona. "We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry," he said.

Tuscon Weekly (http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange/archives/2011/01/08/dupnik-there-may-be-a-second-person-involved)

[boutons_deux]

Fox News abruptly cuts away from Tucson vigil after mourner mentions Sarah Palin

Republican Fox News Channel abruptly cut to commercial after a mourner attending a Tuscon, Arizona vigil for those killed in Saturday's shootings mentioned Fox employee Sarah Palin as one of the culprits behind a rising tide of violent rhetoric in US politics and media.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/fox-news-abruptly-cuts-tucson-vigil-mourner-mentions-sarah-palin/

=========

Fox Repug Propaganda network knows they gotta protect their employees from all responsibility for their divisive, hateful, inflammatory bullshit.

[Stringer_Bell]

so the right wing nuts are not ok to listen to
but what about the left nut wing nuts shows ?
guns do not kill people
people kill people
drugs do not kill people
people who take drugs ....

Rush and company (Liberals included)

I was fair in my comment, perhaps too fair since the Left-Wing nuts are begging for stronger anti-gun laws iirc. I'd be more than interested in catching one of those leftie vegan peace preaching hippie fucks caught asking for a "2nd Amendment Remedy." Please, enlighten us.

[rascal]

cnn.............
on 24/7

No way is that even close to what you hear on conservative talk radio.

[MannyIsGod]

You're a fucking idiot. This guy quoted the Communist Manifesto. His youtube stream preaches anarchy to oppose what's going on in our country today.

The guy is just crazy, but if you're trying to slap a political party tag on him, the communist and anarchist views make him a through and through leftie.

Um, what? Communism and Anarchism are complete opposites. He lists far more libertarian/anarchocapalistic rhetoric and literature than he does communist or socialist.

Outside of the manifesto, what does he cite that is left wing?

[baseline bum]

cnn.............
on 24/7

The CNN that was second only to Fox in beating the drum to war in Iraq? :lol

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I hope she makes it through. A shot to the head from 4 feet away and still alive? What a fucking miracle.

Shit is messed up.

[DMX7]

CNN just blows with the political winds. Can't say it's left leaning or right leaning overall.

[ElNono]

He's a fucking mental midget, period. He will now probably rot in jail or die by injection.
He's not really worth all the attention and discussion he's getting in this thread.

Hopefully Ms Giffords makes a full recovery, and that the families of those that died can make peace.

The rest is really gibberish.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Sad day in America.
The country was overdue for some massive fuckup of epic proportions.

[DMX7]

Sarah Palin and her goddamned loons are "taking back America".

http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/sarahpac_0.jpg

[Viva Las Espuelas]

So any politically motivated crime is definitionally terrorism? Hmm...

I guess that makes Nixon a terrorist?

[PublicOption]

Wow, I hadn't heard about the other 19 assassination attempts yet. When did they occur?

Setting your sights and targeting something can have more meaning than you're implying here. And, if someone took that ad as an invitation to commit violence, they would have found any pretense at all.

you are denying the obvious and that is a little sad. and not to mention.... pathological.

[PublicOption]

lol at blaming this on palin

you liberals are pathetic
you use anything to try to get polictially advantage


another loser denying the obvious.:depressed

very sad.

[LnGrrrR]

So any politically motivated crime is definitionally terrorism? Hmm...

Good question. I mean, if you look at the definition of terrorism...


ter·ror·ism   
[ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2.
the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3.
a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

... it depends on what the motivations of the shooter were. Was he shooting her because he was frustrated? Or was he trying to send a message to other congressmen and women?

I wouldn't say it was terrorism, but I wouldn't say, cut and dried, that it's not.

[Parker2112]

Um, what? Communism and Anarchism are complete opposites. He lists far more libertarian/anarchocapalistic rhetoric and literature than he does communist or socialist.

Outside of the manifesto, what does he cite that is left wing?

Still trying to use Giffords misfortune as a hammer to attack conservatives? Still trying to take a disgraceful act and turn it into political win?

What else can be said about you, Manny....your fail speaks for itself.

[diego]

First, my condolences to the families of the slain civilian bystanders, particularly of the young girl. I hope the congress woman pulls through. It seems she was a moderate, why is it that moderates always get attacked by extremists? As someone else mentioned, perhaps the worst fallout from this is that politicians now have an excuse to distance themselves from their constituencies more.

Second, as someone else posted delusional and mentally ill are entirely different conditions. From what I have seen thus far, this kid was delusional, not insane. If he was insane, shouldn't have someone in the army or even his college detected his insanity?

Third, of course it makes a difference what his political motivation was. I dont think there is sufficient information to make a proper judgement, but there are basically three possibilities here:
a) He attacked a democrat for being a democrat (right wing/tea party theories)
b) he attacked a democrat for not being democratic enough (communist/leftie theories)
c) he attacked a politician for being a politician (cartels, crime, immigration, govt plant, anarchist theories)

in all of these scenarios he may very well be used by another person. If I had to bet right now I'd go with A but still not enough info to make a judgement.

There is no direct connection yet, but it is a little eerie for the congresswoman to have commented on Sarah Palin's crosshair map and its potential repercussions before getting shot.

Finally, if indeed he is not insane as I believe him to be, how is an assassination NOT a terrorist act?


I guess that makes Nixon a terrorist?

you just realized nixon is a terrorist? watergate was the least of it.

[redzero]

Who is next on Sarah Palin's hit list? I'm sure there are many more mentally unstable individuals she can brainwash and turn into psycho killers.

[MannyIsGod]

Still trying to use Giffords misfortune as a hammer to attack conservatives? Still trying to take a disgraceful act and turn it into political win?

What else can be said about you, Manny....your fail speaks for itself.

Conservatives? No.

Paranoid nutjobs like you who think everyone is out to get them. Yes.

[Giuseppe]

The judge that was killed was the one who rendered that unconscionable multi million dollar judgment against that Arizona rancher and for a group of illegals.

He'll render nary another one.

[boutons_deux]

"Giffords misfortune as a hammer to attack conservatives"

misfortune? Euphemism are lies. She's fucking murdered.

It hasn't been the center and liberals who have been polarazing, dividing, inflamming, inciting America for 30 years.

It hasn't been the center and liberals who have been pushing smash-mouth, scorched-earth, dirty-tricks, obstructionist, anti-employee, anti-patient, anti-consumer, anti-poor/young/old, "Christian"-supremacist, never-compromise, ELIMINATIONIST policies.

So who else is there?

Repugs, tea baggers, conservatives, VRWC.

[Giuseppe]

The shooter was a commie/Nazi....that's Hussein Obama's people.

[Crookshanks]

He was not in the Army - he tried to enlist but was rejected. He was also kicked out of Pima Community College and was told he couldn't return without a pscyh evaluation. The kid was clearly troubled - but it seems nobody knew just how much.

[boutons_deux]

"Christians", ya gotta respek their fortitude.

Westboro Baptist Church To Picket Funerals Of Arizona Shooting Victims

Your federal judge is dead and your (fag-promoting, baby-killing, proud-sinner) Congresswoman fights for her life. God is avenging Himself on this rebellious house! WBC prays for your destruction--more shooters, more dead carcasses piling up, young, old, leader and commoner--all. Your doom is upon you!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/westboro-baptist-church-arizona_n_806319.html?view=print#

[Shelly]

Listening to the phone interview with the mother of the 9 year old girl. Heartbreaking

[Crookshanks]

Listening to the phone interview with the mother of the 9 year old girl. Heartbreaking

Very heartbreaking. The little girl was interested in politics and her mother's friend thought she would enjoy meeting Rep Giffords and seeing how government works. Rather ironic - the little girl was born on 9/11.

[rascal]

The shooter was a commie/Nazi....that's Hussein Obama's people.

You are an example of the type of person that conservative talk shows brainwash and polarize.

[rascal]

He was not in the Army - he tried to enlist but was rejected. He was also kicked out of Pima Community College and was told he couldn't return without a pscyh evaluation. The kid was clearly troubled - but it seems nobody knew just how much.

No one is arguing that he was not troubled.

[Crookshanks]

No one is arguing that he was not troubled.

Never said they were - just making a comment after hearing some additional information.

[Wild Cobra]

You're a fucking idiot. This guy quoted the Communist Manifesto. His youtube stream preaches anarchy to oppose what's going on in our country today.

The guy is just crazy, but if you're trying to slap a political party tag on him, the communist and anarchist views make him a through and through leftie.
No shit.

I'll bet the lefties here didn't research the guy like you and I did.

[Wild Cobra]

That must be why he shot a democratic congresswomen.
Do you really think there are only democrats and republicans?

Wow...

Just wow...

[Jekka]

No shit.

I'll bet the lefties here didn't research the guy like you and I did.

Again: Anarchy isn't left.

[Wild Cobra]

Where are the left wing shows?
NPR, CNN, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, etc. etc. etc.

[Wild Cobra]

ter·ror·ism   
[ter-uh-riz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2.
the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3.
a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.
Yep, just what our government is becoming.

[Wild Cobra]

Again: Anarchy isn't left.
Anarchy itself isn't left or right and can exist with either.

[Vici]

The shooter was a commie/Nazi....that's Hussein Obama's people.

There is a lot of stupid in this thread but this one comment stands alone.

[Giuseppe]

You are an example of the type of person that conservative talk shows brainwash and polarize.

Perhaps, but the shooter exemplies leftist attributes.

[CuckingFunt]

Very heartbreaking. The little girl was interested in politics and her mother's friend thought she would enjoy meeting Rep Giffords and seeing how government works. Rather ironic - the little girl was born on 9/11.

That's coincidental, not ironic.

[CuckingFunt]

Yep, just what our government is becoming.

Becoming?

I must have missed the part of that definition that says it's only terrorism when it's done to us. We, as a nation, have been actively engaged in empire building since we first fought the British; the process doesn't typically involve baking everyone cookies.

[Giuseppe]

Becoming?

I must have missed the part of that definition that says it's only terrorism when it's done to us. We, as a nation, have been actively engaged in empire building since we first fought the British; the process doesn't typically involve baking everyone cookies.

Though you would like to draw a line at rolling a U.S. tank over Americans over American soil in Texas.

If McVeigh doesn't square that they'd still be doin' it.

[Wild Cobra]

There is a lot of stupid in this thread but this one comment stands alone.
Seems closer to the mark than what lefties here are saying.

What if it was because she supported gun rights?

What if it was because she supported strict border and immigration?

What if it was because she is Jewish? I can see a possible NAZI thing here.

My best guess however is he didn't specifically target her, but that she was the first politician he could gain access to.

[clambake]

it couldn't have been a more specific target.

[Wild Cobra]

it couldn't have been a more specific target.

Believe as you wish. I have an open mind. It's obvious you don't.

[ElNono]

I'll bet the lefties here didn't research the guy like you and I did.

What did you find out? What were his motives?
No guessing, since you did your research, please.

:rolleyes

[ElNono]

Believe as you wish. I have an open mind. It's obvious you don't.

You have an open mind when it comes to reinforcing your own twisted ideas.
Otherwise, you're a typical authoritarian...

[CuckingFunt]

Seems closer to the mark than what lefties here are saying.

What if it was because she supported gun rights?

What if it was because she supported strict border and immigration?

What if it was because she is Jewish? I can see a possible NAZI thing here.

The thing that's amusing, here, is that none of the so-called lefties in this thread have made the direct connection between Palin's website (or Beck's rhetoric, or whatever) and the shooter's motivations. No one in this thread has made the argument that because this rhetoric exists, the shooter was necessarily motivated to action as a result.

If you read and really processed what was being said in this thread, instead of defensively lashing out because of a few key words, you would see that what we're actually saying is that this incident, regardless the shooter's exact motivations or leanings, does/can/should highlight the potential dangers in ANY political organization relying upon/encouraging the use of violent imagery and rhetoric in their political campaigning. In light of what happened yesterday, and removing any implication of blame from the equation, do you honestly think it's wise to discuss political victory in terms of reloading and taking aim?

[ElNono]

My best guess however is he didn't specifically target her, but that she was the first politician he could gain access to.

Are you guessing or this is part of your research? :rolleyes

[Giuseppe]

do you honestly think it's wise to discuss political victory in terms of reloading and taking aim?

They're compelled. They've no other choice.

[DMX7]

Giffords was the clear target.

[Wild Cobra]

If you read and really processed what was being said in this thread, instead of defensively lashing out because of a few key words, you would see that what we're actually saying is that this incident, regardless the shooter's exact motivations or leanings, does/can/should highlight the potential dangers in ANY political organization relying upon/encouraging the use of violent imagery and rhetoric in their political campaigning. In light of what happened yesterday, and removing any implication of blame from the equation, do you honestly think it's wise to discuss political victory in terms of reloading and taking aim?
I would say that correlating the two is false. Did you know that the decreasing population of pirates increases global temperatures? I can show you the graph, would you like to see it?

Assumptions... That's all they are. Correlation does not equal causation.

[Wild Cobra]

Giffords was the clear target.

Maybe so, but with the way he hated our current government, I think he would have done the same thing with any other politician that mostly plays the business as usual game.

[clambake]

Maybe so, but with the way he hated our current government, I think he would have done the same thing with any other politician that mostly plays the business as usual game.

no he wouldn't....because he didn't.....he hit his intended target.

you think you'll ever evolve?

[Wild Cobra]

no he wouldn't....because he didn't.....he hit his intended target.

you think you'll ever evolve?
My God...

That box you live in sure is small...

I give my opinion, and you are solidly saying I am wrong? That's pretty fucking stupid. I know my opinion might be wrong, but to say it cannot be right...

God... You really are a pathetic loser.

[ElNono]

Maybe so, but with the way he hated our current government, I think he would have done the same thing with any other politician that mostly plays the business as usual game.

Is that part of your research? Link please? :rolleyes

[Wild Cobra]

Is that part of your research? Link please? :rolleyes
I suggest you look up the word "opinion" in the dictionary.

[ElNono]

I suggest you look up the word "opinion" in the dictionary.

I suggest you look up the expression 'talking out of your rear' online.
If you can't back up the crap you spew, then expect to get called out on it.

[DMX7]

It's his opinion, ELNono. It's not based on research, facts or reality. It doesn't have to be.

[clambake]

My God...

That box you live in sure is small...

I give my opinion, and you are solidly saying I am wrong? That's pretty fucking stupid. I know my opinion might be wrong, but to say it cannot be right...

God... You really are a pathetic loser.

you are very much like this shooter.

you celebrated the deaths of soldiers that opposed the war.

you expressed your desire to shoot women and children attempting to cross the border.

you feel that your stalking of women is a legitimate practice.



you feel your small world should be projected on others.


no thank you.

[BlairForceDejuan]

These Brain Surgeons are such pimps.

[ElNono]

It's his opinion, ELNono. It's not based on research, facts or reality. It doesn't have to be.

He claimed to have done research on this person. I have to assume it's based on research, not opinion.

I have no problem with opinion, but trying to pass it as one put together after some sort of research is ridiculous.

[ElNono]

Let me remind you...


I'll bet the lefties here didn't research the guy like you and I did.

[Wild Cobra]

Let me remind you...

Do you take the phrase "I'll bet..." as a factual summation of what follows?

I thought your English skills were better than that.

[Bartleby]

What if it was because she is Jewish? I can see a possible NAZI thing here.

My best guess however is he didn't specifically target her, but that she was the first politician he could gain access to.

the fact that she is Jewish may have something to do with it, but probably not because he identifies with nazis. Rather, I think it was because he appears to be obsessed with financial conspiracies, which are often seen as part of a Jewish cabal by people who buy into them.

[ElNono]

Do you take the phrase "I'll bet..." as a factual summation of what follows?

I thought your English skills were better than that.

You claimed to have done research. Thus, you're either guessing based on said research, or you didn't research shit and are talking out of your ass.

I'll bet on the latter one.

[Giuseppe]

I would say that correlating the two is false. Did you know that the decreasing population of pirates increases global temperatures? I can show you the graph, would you like to see it?

Well, if it's a link it's gotta be true.

[ElNono]

Well, if it's a link it's gotta be true.

This is not the NBA forum, Culby. You'll get called up to back up your bullshit here. With that in mind, I'm not sure you want to stick around.

[Giuseppe]

This is not the NBA forum, Culby. You'll get called up to back up your bullshit here. With that in mind, I'm not sure you want to stick around.

- "No sir, you couldn't drag me away."

- "Sgt. Al Powell" - "Die Hard"

[ElNono]

- "No sir, you couldn't drag me away."

- "Sgt. Al Powell" - "Die Hard"

link?

:lol

[Giuseppe]

link?

:lol

People have died, El. It's not like when regular people die everyday, but, nonetheless.

Have some respect.

Grab ass if for downstairs.

[ElNono]

People have died, El. It's not like when regular people die everyday, but, nonetheless.

Have some respect.

Grab ass if for downstairs.

I've been respectful here until idiots like you showed up.
I don't tell you what to do, so please refrain from telling me what to do.

[Giuseppe]

I've been respectful here until idiots like you showed up.
I don't tell you what to do, so please refrain from telling me what to do.

You're adorable when you get your umbrage on.

[ElNono]

You're adorable when you get your umbrage on.

Your posts don't annoy me anymore. I just process them as they come.

[Giuseppe]

Your posts don't annoy me anymore. I just process them as they come.

:rolleyes

[ElNono]

Culby was novel. Giuseppe is just cheap imitation...

[Spurminator]

This is third world country shit.

[Giuseppe]

Culby was novel. Giuseppe is just cheap imitation...

Culby had Tom Barkley's balls. They now rest neath DoK's in The Princess' jewelry box on her makeup table.

[Stringer_Bell]

These Brain Surgeons are such pimps.

I was thinking the same exact thing, and the news conference was incredibly informative (at least to me).

To all the people saying this dude is crazy, he's not. If the prosecutors have even a passing knowledge of entry-level psychology and logic...they won't let this asshole use "insanity" as an excuse. His actions were premeditated and deliberate. Despite what some people are saying about this being random, or the closet politician he had access to, the shooter knew exactly what he was trying to do and wants to change how we interact with political figures.

[BlairForceDejuan]

Sounds like he had multiple magazines of those 33 rd glock 9mm mags usually used for the Fully Automatic Glock 18.

[Das Texan]

My best guess however is he didn't specifically target her, but that she was the first politician he could gain access to.


Not according to the FBI

[TacoCabanaFajitas]

.

[Giuseppe]

Not according to the FBI

Well, pish-posh, they'd never lie.:rolleyes

[boutons_deux]

Here's the Repugs trying to shield pitbull bitch from just criticism for her violent, gun-fetishist/dog-whistle rhetoric

GOP senator urges media not to talk about Palin’s violent rhetoric

Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) urged CNN's Candy Crowley Sunday not to mention Fox News' Sarah Palin in connection with the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ).

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/gop-senator-urges-media-talk-palins-violent-rhetoric/

[rascal]

NPR, CNN, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, etc. etc. etc.

No way do these compare to conservative talk radio. They are more to the middle. Since conservative talk radio became a mainstream information machine for conservatives, politics has become more divided with hatred.

You saying these shows lean left as the right wing conservative talk shows lean right?

[rascal]

My God...

That box you live in sure is small...

I give my opinion, and you are solidly saying I am wrong? That's pretty fucking stupid. I know my opinion might be wrong, but to say it cannot be right...

God... You really are a pathetic loser.

You live in a box. You twist facts and your thoughts in a way you want to see them.
You are the pathetic loser.

[Winehole23]

If you walk the path of the fire-breathing ideologue, your shoes might catch on fire. (True story.)

That said, the reflexive association of Sarah Palin in particular with this ghastly crime strikes me as more than a bit strained. Pretty much like all the attempts to confine responsibility to one side of the political spectrum, so far.

[boutons_deux]

Not to start another thread on the animal murderer:

Entertainment Weekly is reporting that the former half-term governor of Alaska turned reality TV caribou murderer Sarah Palin will not see her TLC program, 'Sarah Palin's Alaska,' return to the air for a second season.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/sarah-palins-alaska-not-coming-back-for-second-season-report_n_806173.html

=====

Black Vick goes to prison for killing pitbulls,

bubba-white pitbull bitch makes money killing animals.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

No way do these compare to conservative talk radio. They are more to the middle.:lmao

NPR. Don't make me laugh
CNN. They more to the middle but.......
CBS. Pfffffffffff
ABC. Pfffffffffff
MSNBC. Triple Pffffffffff. I guess you never check out Ed Schultz.

[Drachen]

Who is next on Sarah Palin's hit list? I'm sure there are many more mentally unstable individuals she can brainwash and turn into psycho killers.

The more I read about this, the less it seems Palinesque. I mean the guy wrote "I will not trust in God" on his myspace page. Yes that is only one quote, but it is among other examples that lead me to distance him from Palin.

Oh and CNN, not Fox News is what I am reading, and I find Palin abhorrent and totally capable of this type of thing, just, it seems, not in this scenario.

[balli]

That said, the reflexive association of Sarah Palin in particular with this ghastly crime strikes me as more than a bit strained. Pretty much like all the attempts to confine responsibility to one side of the political spectrum, so far.
Doesn't seem strained to me...


"Don’t retreat. Instead — reload!"
~Sarah Palin

"I hope that's not where we're going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."
~Sharon Angle

I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous... we the people -- are going to have to fight back hard if we're not going to lose our country."
~Michele Backmann

''We need to execute people like (John Walker Lindh) in order to physically intimidate liberals.''
—Ann Coulter

''She's a f**king raghead. We got a raghead in Washington; we don't need one in South Carolina. She's a raghead that's ashamed of her religion trying to hide it behind being Methodist for political reasons.''
—South Carolina State Sen. Jake Knotts (R)

''He has no place in any station of government and we need to realize that he is an enemy of humanity.''
—Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), on President Obama's decision to fund international family planning organizations that support legal abortion, Sept. 26, 2009

''My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.''
—Ann Coulter

''I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. ... No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out.''
—Glenn Beck, May 17, 2005

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Here's the Repugs trying to shield pitbull bitch from just criticism for her violent, gun-fetishist/dog-whistle rhetoric

GOP senator urges media not to talk about Palin’s violent rhetoric

Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) urged CNN's Candy Crowley Sunday not to mention Fox News' Sarah Palin in connection with the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-AZ).

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/gop-senator-urges-media-talk-palins-violent-rhetoric/

What an excellent link. I think my favorite thing I found on there was this.
click the link.
IS DAILY KOS INVOLVED IN ARIZONA MURDERS? “My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!” — eerie Daily Kos hit piece on Gabrielle Giffords just two days before assassination attempt; repeated use of word “dead” in relation to Giffords just 48 hours before she and a dozen others were fired upon. UPDATE: Daily Kos scrubs “dead to me” thread but screengrabs document everything; UPDATE: school classmates and former friends describe shooter Jared Lee Loughner as committed Leftist (http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelosi-and-is-now-dead-to-me-eerie-daily-kos-hit-piece-on-gabrielle-giffords-just-two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/)

There's so much in there to make you have the same beef with Kos as you have with Palin........and you really should. Yes, it may be painful cuz they're on your team, but it's the same none the less. I really don't think either one of these are responsible. Daily Kos and Palin clearly clearly used poor judgement. I'm just tired of this duck season-wabbit season that goes on and frankly will only get worse for the next two years til we, hopefully, get someone competent to run this country.

[BlairForceDejuan]

If you walk the path of the fire-breathing ideologue, your shoes might catch on fire. (True story.)

That said, the reflexive association of Sarah Palin in particular with this ghastly crime strikes me as more than a bit strained. Pretty much like all the attempts to confine responsibility to one side of the political spectrum, so far.

Of course that's what it is. The tactic is completely transparent. The ones carrying out the work are the low-level lapdogs who have bought into this boring mundane predictable partisan hack game.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Um, what? Communism and Anarchism are complete opposites. He lists far more libertarian/anarchocapalistic rhetoric and literature than he does communist or socialist.

Outside of the manifesto, what does he cite that is left wing?

You're right, listing Mein Kampf as one of his favorite books, and spouting anti-religious nonsense, none of that is liberal in any way.

In fact, that would appear to me like he's a card carrying member of the Tea Party [/liberal logic]

[Winehole23]

Why not blame the routine and excessive violence we consume everywhere else in the electronic sensorium (TV/video games/movies)?


(Political rhetoric comes and goes. Movie quotes and videogame foleys are eternal.)

[Crookshanks]

Just take 10 minutes to read the comments section on any article dealing with this tragedy and you will see that the vitriol and hatred is out in full force - on BOTH sides! But the bottom line is that the only person responsible for this horrendous act is Jared Loughner. No one bought the gun for him or forced him to go to this event. In fact, the Sheriff said Loughner was actually invited to this event by Giffords. He, and he alone, decided to bring a gun and settle his grievances with violence. And he was hoping to go out in a blaze of glory so he wouldn't have to face the consequences of his actions. Hopefully, we'll be able to get some sort of idea of his motivation - but he sounds pretty messed up and he doesn't make much sense. But until we learn more about this - I think it's pretty irresponsible for ANYONE to start placing blame anywhere but on the shooter.

[Winehole23]

Doesn't seem strained to me...The right wing doesn't have an exclusive on hate or revenge fantasies. The crosshairs you posted upstream reveal at least that much.

[BlairForceDejuan]

Mark Potak about had an orgasm yesterday tieing this into extreme right wingers. lol that guy

[boutons_deux]

FCM and others spewing the bullshit, yet another false equivalence in the interest of being "objective", that's there's equal amount of violent, inflammatory rabble-rousing rhetoric on the left and right.

It's really the right-wingers claiming that they are no more violent than the Dems.

I don't see Dems carrying weapons to political rallies, or shouting down town hall speakers, or intimidating vote re-counters, or talking about 2nd Amendment remedies, or "taking people out", or needing to overthrow govt or etc, etc.

[Winehole23]

(The theme of malakismenos does not so much lurk in dark corners of this forum, as display itself proudly.)

[boutons_deux]

Question: How does a mentally unstable man who was kicked out of school and had run-ins with the law buy an assault weapon?

The weapon reportedly used in the mass murders in Tucson was an assault weapon -- a Glock 19, semi-automatic pistol, with an extended magazine. That weapon was illegal to sell in the US from 1994 to 2004 under the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. It is now legal to sell and own. The National Rifle Association reports there are tens of millions of assault weapons in private hands in the US.

In one year, guns murdered 17 people in Finland, 35 in Australia, 39 in England and Wales, 60 in Spain, 194 in Germany, 200 in Canada, and 9,484 in the United States according to the Brady Campaign.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-quigley/guns-and-terrorism-two-un_b_806466.html?view=print

[BlairForceDejuan]

So a semi-auto mid-sized 9mm handgun is an ASSAULT WEAPON??? It takes 2 seconds to switch out mags. Stock mags for the Glock 19 hold 15 rounds (10 if you are in Cali). The 30+ mag is ridiculous, but doesn't make that much of a difference if a psycho has them over stock mags.

Glock 19 is also the #1 gun for conceal carry.

[redzero]

In one year, guns murdered

Inanimate objects don't murder people.

[baseline bum]

I have no doubt we'd have 10,000 murders a year by knives and baseball bats if there was no access to guns. To blame inanimate objects instead of recognizing we have a fucked up public is ridiculous. It's in our culture to just say "fuck everyone else, I'm getting mine" from our citizens on up to our kill-happy government.

[ducks]

Question: How does a mentally unstable man who was kicked out of school and had run-ins with the law buy an assault weapon?

The weapon reportedly used in the mass murders in Tucson was an assault weapon -- a Glock 19, semi-automatic pistol, with an extended magazine. That weapon was illegal to sell in the US from 1994 to 2004 under the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. It is now legal to sell and own. The National Rifle Association reports there are tens of millions of assault weapons in private hands in the US.

In one year, guns murdered 17 people in Finland, 35 in Australia, 39 in England and Wales, 60 in Spain, 194 in Germany, 200 in Canada, and 9,484 in the United States according to the Brady Campaign.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-quigley/guns-and-terrorism-two-un_b_806466.html?view=print

how do people buy illegal drugs

their is a black market
you idiot

I guess boutons wants more laws

he wants the gov to give people permsion to breath

he is forgetting why the USA WAS FOUNDED

[MannyIsGod]

You're right, listing Mein Kampf as one of his favorite books, and spouting anti-religious nonsense, none of that is liberal in any way.

In fact, that would appear to me like he's a card carrying member of the Tea Party [/liberal logic]

Since when is Mein Kampf some type of liberal book? You want to go down the list of his favorite books and see how many are liberal? This is just idiocy.

[Winehole23]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/S82jwZ0pD1k/0.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

the fact that she is Jewish may have something to do with it, but probably not because he identifies with nazis. Rather, I think it was because he appears to be obsessed with financial conspiracies, which are often seen as part of a Jewish cabal by people who buy into them.
I agree but again, very few congress people put them self out in the open. I simply think he would have targeted any of them that were easy to target.

[MannyIsGod]

Let me be clear, none of what happened yesterday was the result of conservative principles. It doesn't mean a desire for smaller government is wrong. It doesn't mean the GOP is a worse choice than the Democrats. It is not in any way a strike against anything conservatives believe. I've stated this before in this thread, but it probably needs to be continuously stated.

That being said, there was a reason the alert from extreme right wing terrorism was issued in the past and this is an extreme embodiment of it. There is a lot of anger at the Tea Party rallies and while I"m sure the vast majority of people at those events would never consider any action like this, I do believe there is a segment of that group that is capable of far more radical action.

When that alert was issued, the right took it extremely offensively. They took it as a political opportunity to once again play the victim at the hands of big government. Well, it turns out that wasn't the case.

Yeah, there are definitely nut cases in every political sector and there is no denying that. Liberal eco terrorists and the like are out there. But in today's political climate where the Tea Party amasses and groups large numbers of angry people who are extremely anti government there needs to be a more responsible approach to the rhetoric. Comparing the current Democratic administration to Hitler (Sup, AHF. BTW Hitler very much was against socialism - how liberal of him), acting as though our government is out to get us, and generally using hyperbole in an incredibly irresponsible fashion is something that needs to be reconsidered at the very least.

[Wild Cobra]

No way do these compare to conservative talk radio. They are more to the middle. Since conservative talk radio became a mainstream information machine for conservatives, politics has become more divided with hatred.

You saying these shows lean left as the right wing conservative talk shows lean right?
I'm saying they are left of center, some more than others, which leaves the rest of the population needed those who are to the right.

[MannyIsGod]

And while we don't know if he was ever active in the Tea Party scene, I don't see how that changes anything I said above.

[Wild Cobra]

You live in a box. You twist facts and your thoughts in a way you want to see them.
You are the pathetic loser.
Are you defending that slandering idiot?

[Giuseppe]

I have no doubt we'd have 10,000 murders a year by knives and baseball bats if there was no access to guns. To blame inanimate objects instead of recognizing we have a fucked up public is ridiculous. It's in our culture to just say "fuck everyone else, I'm getting mine" from our citizens on up to our kill-happy government.

baseline bum

[LnGrrrR]

Yep, just what our government is becoming.

You mean when our government talks about "shock and awe" to effect regime change? I agree with you.

[DMX7]

Well, pish-posh, they'd never lie.:rolleyes

Not according to local or state authorities either.

[LnGrrrR]

What an excellent link. I think my favorite thing I found on there was this.
click the link.
IS DAILY KOS INVOLVED IN ARIZONA MURDERS? “My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!” — eerie Daily Kos hit piece on Gabrielle Giffords just two days before assassination attempt; repeated use of word “dead” in relation to Giffords just 48 hours before she and a dozen others were fired upon. UPDATE: Daily Kos scrubs “dead to me” thread but screengrabs document everything; UPDATE: school classmates and former friends describe shooter Jared Lee Loughner as committed Leftist (http://hillbuzz.org/2011/01/08/my-congresswoman-voted-against-nancy-pelosi-and-is-now-dead-to-me-eerie-daily-kos-hit-piece-on-gabrielle-giffords-just-two-days-before-assassination-attempt-on-her/)

There's so much in there to make you have the same beef with Kos as you have with Palin........and you really should. Yes, it may be painful cuz they're on your team, but it's the same none the less. I really don't think either one of these are responsible. Daily Kos and Palin clearly clearly used poor judgement. I'm just tired of this duck season-wabbit season that goes on and frankly will only get worse for the next two years til we, hopefully, get someone competent to run this country.

Was it some random poster or Kos/a regular author on the site?

[Das Texan]

I agree but again, very few congress people put them self out in the open. I simply think he would have targeted any of them that were easy to target.



He first had contact with her in 2007.


They have found stuff where he has stated that he planned this.


Ya it was random.

[Giuseppe]

Not according to local or state authorities either.

Same ones who swore up & down there were two men involved.:rolleyes

[Wild Cobra]

He first had contact with her in 2007.


They have found stuff where he has stated that he planned this.


Ya it was random.
Weren't those plans after the released agenda of the congresswoman?

[DMX7]

Same ones who swore up & down there were two men involved.:rolleyes

lol, another pathetic paranoid dolt... I laugh at you. :lol

[Das Texan]

Weren't those plans after the released agenda of the congresswoman?



What?

[Wild Cobra]

What?
LOL...

If you cannot comprehend what I meant, we are done.

[redzero]

Okay, what I have learned so far is that Sarah Palin maintains a terrorist cell of mentally unstable Communist Nazi Anarchists tea bagger leftists who are mentally unstable.

Am i right so far?

[Das Texan]

LOL...

If you cannot comprehend what I meant, we are done.



I dont even know what you are trying to ask.



The only thing I know is that the Congresswoman WAS the target. Plain and simple. The plans they found were his plans for assassinating her.


What more explanation is needed? Unless you want to talk in circles.

[Wild Cobra]

I dont even know what you are trying to ask.



The only thing I know is that the Congresswoman WAS the target. Plain and simple. The plans they found were his plans for assassinating her.


What more explanation is needed? Unless you want to talk in circles.
Was she the target before or after her agenda was released? If senator McCain was doing the same thing instead of her, would they have found plans to kill him instead?

[rascal]

I'm saying they are left of center, some more than others, which leaves the rest of the population needed those who are to the right.

ABC and CBS? How do they compare to conservative talk radio? Conservative talk radio is on day and night with right wing propaganda shows, full of opinions.

ABC and CBS TV has a 30 minute news cast nightly that gives little to no opinions during the 30 minutes. CBS and ABC also have news affiliates that give 5 minute updates on the hour across many radio stations, little to no opinions on those just straight news items.

[rascal]

I dont even know what you are trying to ask.



The only thing I know is that the Congresswoman WAS the target. Plain and simple. The plans they found were his plans for assassinating her.


What more explanation is needed? Unless you want to talk in circles.

He went there with the intention to kill the congresswoman then just opened fire on the rest of the people. I'll bet the first shot hit Giffords.

It was politically motivated. He didn't like something about what she stood for.

[diego]

the thing is that regardless of whether this guy even spoke of Palin, much less meet/communicate with Palin once in his life, it can still be true that the political climate she is an important part of fostered that violence.

Everyone seems to overlook the interview where Giffords calls Palin out for exactly this, and she ends up getting shot by a zealot. that is too big a coincidence IMO. does anyone really think better civic culture doesn't help in this kind of situation?

the murderer shot a lot of people yesterday, total disregard for human life. this has been happening more and more in the US, and it has now spilled into politics. its a slippery slope and Palin is sitting on the wrong side in this one.

[Yonivore]

Let me be clear, none of what happened yesterday was the result of conservative principles. It doesn't mean a desire for smaller government is wrong. It doesn't mean the GOP is a worse choice than the Democrats. It is not in any way a strike against anything conservatives believe. I've stated this before in this thread, but it probably needs to be continuously stated.

That being said, there was a reason the alert from extreme right wing terrorism was issued in the past and this is an extreme embodiment of it.
The reason was partisan political smearing. This act is an embodiment of insanity. And, to top it off, it is starting to appear his motives were fueled by antisemitism and not any political position held by Congresswoman Giffords.

This plot had been baking in that nut jobs head for quite a while...possibly since he met Giffords in 2007.


There is a lot of anger at the Tea Party rallies
No more so than you'll find at Rev. Wrights church, the DailyKos, Huffington Post, the New Black Panther rallies, and on and on and on. The exception being, the Tea Party anger is at Democrat policies and, to some extent, Republican policies, the Tea Party believes resulted our current economic state.


...and while I"m sure the vast majority of people at those events would never consider any action like this, I do believe there is a segment of that group that is capable of far more radical action.
Only because the Left is preaching that over and over and over and over ad nauseum. This attack isn't related to the Tea Party; in fact, you can't point to one single act of violence that is precipitated by the Tea Party.

If only you were as vociferous against Muslim extremist violence. Take a peak in many of the Mosques in this country, and around the world. There's some fucking violence-fomenting going on there.


When that alert was issued, the right took it extremely offensively.
Because it was bogus.


They took it as a political opportunity to once again play the victim at the hands of big government. Well, it turns out that wasn't the case.
Really, where? This wasn't a crime resulting from any Right-wing view.


Yeah, there are definitely nut cases in every political sector and there is no denying that. Liberal eco terrorists and the like are out there.
Bill Ayers
Bernandine Dohrn
New Black Panther Party
Reverend Jeremiah Wright
The list is long...


But in today's political climate where the Tea Party amasses and groups large numbers of angry people who are extremely anti government there needs to be a more responsible approach to the rhetoric. Comparing the current Democratic administration to Hitler (Sup, AHF. BTW Hitler very much was against socialism - how liberal of him),
Comparing Bush to Hitler was daily fare. He's still referred to as Bushitler by many, some in here.


acting as though our government is out to get us, and generally using hyperbole in an incredibly irresponsible fashion is something that needs to be reconsidered at the very least.
Not that our government is out to get us but that this administration and it's policies are ruining the country.

[BlairForceDejuan]

The assholes who can't drive in traffic foster violence. Everything in our environment fosters violence. Individuals make individual decisions.

If Politicians have such a pull on the crazies, we need to start pumping out "Just Kill Yourself" Public Service Announcements tbh.

[ChumpDumper]

Take a peak in many of the Mosques in this country, and around the world. There's some fucking violence-fomenting going on there. How many mosques have you visited, yoni?

[DMX7]

I agree but again, very few congress people put them self out in the open. I simply think he would have targeted any of them that were easy to target.

If by "put them self out in the open" you mean have a town hall style meeting with constituents, then NO. It's actually pretty common. A lot of congressmen and congresswomen do it.

She was clearly the target.

[Yonivore]

the thing is that regardless of whether this guy even spoke of Palin, much less meet/communicate with Palin once in his life, it can still be true that the political climate she is an important part of fostered that violence.
The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/us/politics/09shooter.html?hp) (not exactly a bastion of Conservative rhetoric) and The Hill (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/136837-report-dhs-says-shooting-suspect-possibly-linked-to-anti-semitic-group) say he looks like a lefty -- an antisemitic lefty, at that:

The Right Wing blogosphere has produce several example, already, where Democrats have engaged in similar political rhetoric. DailyKos "targeted" Congresswoman Giffords, The Democratic Leadership Committee put out this "Targeting Strategy" graphic:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/media/DLC-Targeting-map.gif

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee issued this one (each bulls eye represents a Republican Congressman):

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/media/recovery.jpeg

There's this ad where a Democrat puts the cross-hairs on a Republican opponent:

epdJWNA65oY


Everyone seems to overlook the interview where Giffords calls Palin out for exactly this, and she ends up getting shot by a zealot. that is too big a coincidence IMO. does anyone really think better civic culture doesn't help in this kind of situation?
The insane guy's animosity toward Giffords pre-dates Palin's ad.


the murderer shot a lot of people yesterday, total disregard for human life. this has been happening more and more in the US, and it has now spilled into politics. its a slippery slope and Palin is sitting on the wrong side in this one.
Nothing to do with Right Wing Politics. The guy was a nut. An Anti-Semitic nut, at that.

The attempts to smear the Right with this insanity is going to backfire. Not many people are buying already. And, that Loony Pima County Sheriff is not helping...

[Yonivore]

If by "put them self out in the open" you mean have a town hall style meeting with constituents, then NO. It's actually pretty common. A lot of congressmen and congresswomen do it.

She was clearly the target.
It's been established she was the target through evidence found at his house. He's had it in for Giffords for quite a while, it seems.

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/media/DLC-Targeting-map.gifDid any Republican congressmen fall victim to a bow and arrow attack?

[PublicOption]

The shooter was a commie/Nazi....that's Hussein Obama's people.


fucking simple minded people

nazi=right wing nut.


commie=left wing nut.


Obama can't be both......get a fucking clue!:rolleyes

[Yonivore]

Another Lefty that was pretty pissed at Giffords

http://www.wnd.com/images/110108kos.jpg

Just two days before the shooting. Maybe whatever pissed him off, pissed off the lunatic that shot her.

It's certainly more plausible than the stupid Sarah Palin meme that's being forwarded by the Left.

[PublicOption]

Did any Republican congressmen fall victim to a bow and arrow attack?


:lol

[BlairForceDejuan]

Did any Republican congressmen fall victim to a bow and arrow attack?

It should. Probably will any minute tbh. Putting targets on maps causes people to carry out violent crimes.

[Yonivore]

Obama can't be both......get a fucking clue!:rolleyes
I'd say that depends on which way the political winds are blowing. He's doing a pretty fair job of abandoning the far left to appear "centrist" right now.

[PublicOption]

Another Lefty that was pretty pissed at Giffords

http://www.wnd.com/images/110108kos.jpg

Just two days before the shooting. Maybe whatever pissed him off, pissed off the lunatic that shot her.

It's certainly more plausible than the stupid Sarah Palin meme that's being forwarded by the Left.

why is tit for tat bullshit all you can focus your energy on.......very strange.

[PublicOption]

I'd say that depends on which way the political winds are blowing. He's doing a pretty fair job of abandoning the far left to appear "centrist" right now.


I hear ya!:toast

[Yonivore]

why is tit for tat bullshit all you can focus your energy on.......very strange.
It's not tit-for-tat.

None of this stuff led the shooter to do what he did. He's a fucking nut.

The point in posting this is to show the absolute hypocrisy of the Left claiming this was caused by a ad produced by the Right when, as recently as two days before the shooting, there were people on the Left using the same rhetoric.

[DMX7]

Did any Republican congressmen fall victim to a bow and arrow attack?

LOL, I think you mean did any state capital buildings endure bow and arrow attacks. It doesn't even mention congress people in that ad the way Palin's PAC hitlist does.

[Yonivore]

LOL, I think you mean did any state capital buildings endure bow and arrow attacks. It doesn't even mention congress people in that ad the way Palin's PAC hitlist does.
DailyKos had a hit list with Giffords on it.

[diego]

how is "people on the left using the same rhetoric" (who the hell is harry mitchell?) to


"Don’t retreat. Instead — reload!"
~Sarah Palin

"I hope that's not where we're going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."
~Sharon Angle

I want people in Minnesota armed and dangerous... we the people -- are going to have to fight back hard if we're not going to lose our country."
~Michele Backmann

''We need to execute people like (John Walker Lindh) in order to physically intimidate liberals.''
—Ann Coulter

''She's a f**king raghead. We got a raghead in Washington; we don't need one in South Carolina. She's a raghead that's ashamed of her religion trying to hide it behind being Methodist for political reasons.''
—South Carolina State Sen. Jake Knotts (R)

''He has no place in any station of government and we need to realize that he is an enemy of humanity.''
—Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), on President Obama's decision to fund international family planning organizations that support legal abortion, Sept. 26, 2009

''My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building.''
—Ann Coulter

''I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore, and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire somebody to do it. ... No, I think I could. I think he could be looking me in the eye, you know, and I could just be choking the life out.''
—Glenn Beck, May 17, 2005

Are you really saying Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter are on the level of Harry Mitchell? You are going to just trivialize the fact that a politician was killed after an opponent ran an ad using the murder weapon's sights and that that opponent liked to use the words "reload" and "take aim" as slogans? did harry mitchell assassinate anyone with a bow and arrow?

you have no problem attributing the influence of religion (islam) or social values, in fact the above quoted pride themselves on having better social values, yet there they are contributing negatively to this situation, whether you like it or not.

[boutons_deux]

"None of this stuff led the shooter to do what he did"

Your opinion and mind-reading, always golden, versus political/social climate poisoned by Repug/right-wing/tea bagger slander, lies, hate/kill-governement for decades.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL, I think you mean did any state capital buildings endure bow and arrow attacks. It doesn't even mention congress people in that ad the way Palin's PAC hitlist does.Even better. I just noticed the targets.

[Yonivore]

how is "people on the left using the same rhetoric" (who the hell is harry mitchell?) to


Are you really saying Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter are on the level of Harry Mitchell?
Harry Mitchell is an Arizona politician...

"If they bring a knife, you bring a gun." -- Barack Obama.

We could mine the quotes all night and come up with militaristic/combative rhetoric from both sides of the spectrum. The word "campaign" is a military term.


You are going to just trivialize the fact that a politician was killed after an opponent ran an ad using the murder weapon's sights and that that opponent liked to use the words "reload" and "take aim" as slogans? did harry mitchell assassinate anyone with a bow and arrow?
Two days before the assassination attempt, the DailyKos (widely read, all over the nation) ran an entry by a regular contributor saying Giffords was "dead" to him.


you have no problem attributing the influence of religion (islam) or social values, in fact the above quoted pride themselves on having better social values, yet there they are contributing negatively to this situation, whether you like it or not.
No one, on the left or the right of the political spectrum contributed to this situation. The gunman was insane and there is no indication he even saw the Palin ad or read the DailyKos blog. None.

What the Left is doing here is political opportunistic muckery at its lowest.

[Das Texan]

Was she the target before or after her agenda was released? If senator McCain was doing the same thing instead of her, would they have found plans to kill him instead?



I dont know. Loughner wasnt targeting McCain. He was targeting Giffords.

[Yonivore]

I dont know. Loughner wasnt targeting McCain. He was targeting Giffords.
And, apparently, for a very long time.

[boutons_deux]

"muckery at its lowest"

If it were that, the Repugs deserve it, they poisoned the public discourse, divided the country, left vs right, wealthy vs the rest, "Christians" vs secular, white vs black, an intentional political strategy.

[diego]

you don't get my point. it doesnt matter whether it affected him or not. It looks bad for Palin to have run that ad, then gotten called out for running it by the person who was assassinated, who got assassinated by the same weapon/same rhetoric used in that ad. She was associated to the assassination straight out of Giffords own mouth- you say the muderer had beef since 2007, but perhaps it was his presence that led Giffords to denounce an unstable/violent enviornment for which she held Palin responsible. You cannot compare the influence of "a regular contributor at DailyKos" to Sarah Palin, (not to mention the victim, who links Palin by making the statement). In any other argument you'd be scoffing at the comparison, as I am now. we are talking about the perceptions of the environment, media is extremely improtant and Sarah Palin is a media mogul compared to any of the other subplots of the story. Therefore, it looks bad for Palin, even if she had no direct or even indirect influence on what actually happened, still her name has been thrust in and wont come out looking good (because of Giffords statement against her). Do you understand what I am trying to say now? Do you disagree that this event has negatively affected people's perception of Palin's views/rhetoric?

good night :toast

[Yonivore]

you don't get my point. it doesnt matter whether it affected him or not. It looks bad for Palin to have run that ad, then gotten called out for running it by the person who was assassinated, who got assassinated by the same weapon/same rhetoric used in that ad. She was associated to the assassination straight out of Giffords own mouth- you say the muderer had beef since 2007, but perhaps it was his presence that led Giffords to denounce an unstable/violent enviornment for which she held Palin responsible. You cannot compare the influence of "a regular contributor at DailyKos" to Sarah Palin, (not to mention the victim, who links Palin by making the statement). In any other argument you'd be scoffing at the comparison, as I am now. we are talking about the perceptions of the environment, media is extremely improtant and Sarah Palin is a media mogul compared to any of the other subplots of the story. Therefore, it looks bad for Palin, even if she had no direct or even indirect influence on what actually happened, still her name has been thrust in and wont come out looking good (because of Giffords statement against her). Do you understand what I am trying to say now? Do you disagree that this event has negatively affected people's perception of Palin's views/rhetoric?

good night :toast
It only looks bad because the Left keep harping on the connection without absolutely any proof there is one.

The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071913818696964.html)


American journalists know how to be exquisitely sensitive when they want to be. As the Washington Examiner's Byron York pointed out on Sunday, after Major Nidal Hasan shot up Fort Hood while shouting "Allahu Akhbar!" the press was full of cautions about not drawing premature conclusions about a connection to Islamist terrorism. "Where," asked Mr. York, "was that caution after the shootings in Arizona?"

Set aside as inconvenient, apparently. ...

So as the usual talking heads begin their "have you no decency?" routine aimed at talk radio and Republican politicians, perhaps we should turn the question around. Where is the decency in blood libel? ...

To be clear, if you're using this event to criticize the "rhetoric" of Mrs. Palin or others with whom you disagree, then you're either: (a) asserting a connection between the "rhetoric" and the shooting, which based on evidence to date would be what we call a vicious lie; or (b) you're not, in which case you're just seizing on a tragedy to try to score unrelated political points, which is contemptible. Which is it?
Indeed, which is it?

[diego]

It only looks bad because the Left keep harping on the connection without absolutely any proof there is one.

The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703667904576071913818696964.html)


Indeed, which is it?

Shouldn't have hit refresh

I'll leave it at this:

The facts aren't all out yet. Regardless, you are a fool if you think that in a murder case, particularly a political assassination, public perception would not be influenced by the victim complaining of an opponent's rhetoric, and again particularly when that rhetoric coincides with the MO of the assassination. Some may have made the connection before seeing that video, but for me it's very difficult to ignore that the victim singled out another person by name for creating a violent environment then dying in just such an incident as the one she feared. That name is going to stick whether you like it or not.

[diego]

and it wasnt just hearsay, she complained on record through the media. unless you can show Giffords was paranoid and made such accusations to others, it is most certainly relevant. there's a reason we are talking about Palin and the reason is the victim- give me a reason not to empathize with the victim and ignore her statement. This is not at all equivalent to politicians using military diction, how many times do assassinated politicians name opponents before getting shot and not have that opponent's role questioned?

[Yonivore]

Shouldn't have hit refresh
Sometimes your back button will bring you back to a partial response...


I'll leave it at this:

The facts aren't all out yet. Regardless, you are a fool if you think that in a murder case, particularly a political assassination, public perception would not be influenced by the victim complaining of an opponent's rhetoric, and again particularly when that rhetoric coincides with the MO of the assassination.
What, exactly, was the MO of this shooter that alluded to anything in the rancorous political contests of the mid-term elections or, in fact, of any opposing view held in contrast to Congresswoman Giffords known positions?


Some may have made the connection before seeing that video, but for me it's very difficult to ignore that the victim singled out another person by name for creating a violent environment then dying...
She's not dead, unless I missed that report.

...in just such an incident as the one she feared.
Most politician gets death threats.


That name is going to stick whether you like it or not.
Only if idiots like you keep trying to make a connection that isn't there.

[RandomGuy]

The ol' them or us...what a POS fascist. Hitler would have had much use for you, Manny. Bush too.

Post #298 I see we got in the obligatory Hitler/nazi reference.

[Yonivore]

“Those who purport to care about the tenor of political discourse don’t help civil debate when they seize on any pretext to call their political opponents accomplices to murder.”

[ChumpDumper]

Most politician gets death threats.I'd like to see the statistics that lead you to make this definitive statement.

[BlairForceDejuan]

I'd like to see the statistics that lead you to make this definitive statement.

I believe it was a study conducted long ago by Professor Common Sense using a common variable of common sense and an experimental stimulant of common sense.

[ducks]

I'd like to see the statistics that lead you to make this definitive statement.

on tv they said that last night

[ChumpDumper]

I believe it was a study conducted long ago by Professor Common Sense using a common variable of common sense and an experimental stimulant of common sense."Common sense" supported by what?


on tv they said that last nightWho?

[ducks]

Tv that is who

[ChumpDumper]

Tv that is whoI hate to break it to you, ducks, but TV is not a person. TV can describe a person, but that has little to do with whether that person has compiled and analyzed statistics regarding death threats against most politicians.

[Fabbs]

I hate to break it to you, ducks, but TV is not a person.
:lol
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/pre-2007/murmurs/gfx/20050111_simpsons.jpg