Apple sucks

[ElNono]

You read the first article and figured that site was worth checking out?

Actually, I figured it was an Android site. But it turns out they just have a bit of everything in there.

[ElNono]

Yeah, the camera argument is retarded. Don't Android phones have that too? Not confusing there? :lol

[Dex]

You can turn off syncing various types of content/files to iCloud....so that solves that problem. If you don't want your videos to be synced...disable it.

The rest of those arguments, people have already addressed.

People can try to find problems with anything, but these are really just stretching to hate for hater's sake. (Ironic, considering the source here.) :lol

[Drachen]

:lol
Yeah, the camera argument is retarded. Don't Android phones have that too? Not confusing there? :lol

I know sense phones have something similar.

[ElNono]

I'm actually digging the automatic backup of app data to the Cloud while the phone is charging and I'm sleeping...

[Cry Havoc]

sorry don't answer personal questions in the internet.

back on topic:

http://celljee.com/iphone-ios-5-sucks-and-we-have-valid-reasons/

iPhone iOS 5 Sucks And We Have Valid Reasons

iMessage – We already have such apps
iMessage feature won the battle for being “numero uno” feature is just a gimmick. Through the feature an iOS 5 user can send free messages to other users. The feature is already provided by many IM apps and just like Facetime you will find it sitting on your iPhone and eating a lot of memory. Luckily iOS 4.3 users are shielded from this poor feature.

Name is iCloud not James Bond
iCloud closely comes in after iMessage in being a useless feature of iOS 5. The feature aims at wirelessly synching up data and apps on all iOS held devices. There could be instances where you won’t want data to be viewed on all iOS devices held by a user but one. This could leak out sensitive user information if it is stored on iCloud. Currently, you can delete a private video from your iPhone but imagine with iCloud the MMS is saved in the cloud waiting to reveal your dark side.

Camera on Lock Screen – Confusion Oriented
Users are bound to get confused with this feature on iOS 5. You might end up placing taps on camera in pre-text of hitting the lock/unlock swipes.

No Flash Support
The web world has not become Apple friendly even after Apple realigned from Flash support in 2009-10. Their OS and products do not identify Flash at all.
If you think that the above mentioned reasons are not valid then you can give your own opinion, but we really don’t care.

That's a pretty weak group of reasons. iOS 5 seems to be solid AFAIK. We'll see how it fares over time.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm actually digging the automatic backup of app data to the Cloud while the phone is charging and I'm sleeping...

Nice to have on a phone, isn't it? ;)

[Drachen]

I have to credit the Iphone 4s for something. It made me realize some features that my phone had that I didn't know.

Siri for example. I knew that the google voice search had been doing this for at least a year before the announcement of the 4s, and stated this. However, as others have made the same claim, they got specific about what exactly google voice search could do. Now I use it far more than I did before. (Set alarm at 8:15, etc.) I won't use it to check weather, since I have a widget on my home screen which shows it to me, but its cool to know that I can.

Thank you Iphone 4s for giving me a greater understanding of all of the features that my android phone has had and I didn't even know.

[Nathan Explosion]

I'm actually digging the automatic backup of app data to the Cloud while the phone is charging and I'm sleeping...

Yeah, but I already ran into an unintended consequence. I took a screen shot of a porn that I played on my phone because my friend was bitching about something so I sent it to him to make him feel better. Also, there might be a chance his wife might see it and well, fun for us, but not for him.

Thing is, I had my phone charging when I did it, so it automatically backed up to my photo stream. I had to turn off iCloud for photos and have it erase everything from the servers, then erase off my phone and then turn it back on.

I don't mind it when people think I'm a perv, but I don't want just anyone to KNOW I'm a perv, and I don't want evidence backing up on servers halfway across the country. I'm sure it's still there in some form, but it's not as easily accessible now.

Call it a lesson learned.

[Sisk]

iCloud is really convenient, imo.

Siri has been pretty entertaining. Asking it things like the meaning of life and what-not to see what she responds with has been pretty funny. It hasn't been too consistent, but when it works it's pretty spot on. It's a beta, so I'm not surprised. It'll prove to be very useful.

[lefty]

iCloud is really convenient, imo.

Siri has been pretty entertaining. Asking it things like the meaning of life and what-not to see what she responds with has been pretty funny. It hasn't been too consistent, but when it works it's pretty spot on. It's a beta, so I'm not surprised. It'll prove to be very useful.
icloud is nice



Tell Siri " I love you " :lol

[ElNono]

Yeah, but I already ran into an unintended consequence. I took a screen shot of a porn that I played on my phone because my friend was bitching about something so I sent it to him to make him feel better. Also, there might be a chance his wife might see it and well, fun for us, but not for him.

Thing is, I had my phone charging when I did it, so it automatically backed up to my photo stream. I had to turn off iCloud for photos and have it erase everything from the servers, then erase off my phone and then turn it back on.

I don't mind it when people think I'm a perv, but I don't want just anyone to KNOW I'm a perv, and I don't want evidence backing up on servers halfway across the country. I'm sure it's still there in some form, but it's not as easily accessible now.

Call it a lesson learned.

You can set it not to backup your Camera roll. I basically only enabled documents and app data.

[Sisk]

icloud is nice



Tell Siri " I love you " :lol

"I hope you don't say that to those other mobile phones, (my name)"

:lol

[ElNono]

Nice to have on a phone, isn't it? ;)

It is.:toast

[Nathan Explosion]

You can set it not to backup your Camera roll. I basically only enabled documents and app data.

Yeah, but it's very easy to forget that it's on, and if you're fucking around with a friend in the same manner I was, it can come back to bite you in the ass if you're not careful. Also, did the special characters get added to the general keyboard by holding say the letter "e" or has that always been the case and I'm the moron who just figured that out?

[ElNono]

Yeah, but it's very easy to forget that it's on, and if you're fucking around with a friend in the same manner I was, it can come back to bite you in the ass if you're not careful. Also, did the special characters get added to the general keyboard by holding say the letter "e" or has that always been the case and I'm the moron who just figured that out?

It's been there from the get go... another keyboard trick is that if you need to just enter one number or symbol, tap and hold on the '123' key to switch to numeric, then drag your finger to the number/character you want to enter. Once you release, you'll be back in the regular text keyboard.

[Nathan Explosion]

It's been there from the get go... another keyboard trick is that if you need to just enter one number or symbol, tap and hold on the '123' key to switch to numeric, then drag your finger to the number/character you want to enter. Once you release, you'll be back in the regular text keyboard.

One, I don't text much, and two, when I do, I tend to do so pretty quickly so doing the tricks I've just learned never even occurred to me because I go through my texts pretty quickly.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

iCloud is really convenient, imo.

Siri has been pretty entertaining. Asking it things like the meaning of life and what-not to see what she responds with has been pretty funny. It hasn't been too consistent, but when it works it's pretty spot on. It's a beta, so I'm not surprised. It'll prove to be very useful.

http://shitthatsirisays.tumblr.com/

[ElNono]

One, I don't text much, and two, when I do, I tend to do so pretty quickly so doing the tricks I've just learned never even occurred to me because I go through my texts pretty quickly.

tbh, I never text. Just stuff I either found out or other people told me.

[Slydragon]

I have to credit the Iphone 4s for something. It made me realize some features that my phone had that I didn't know.

Siri for example. I knew that the google voice search had been doing this for at least a year before the announcement of the 4s, and stated this. However, as others have made the same claim, they got specific about what exactly google voice search could do. Now I use it far more than I did before. (Set alarm at 8:15, etc.) I won't use it to check weather, since I have a widget on my home screen which shows it to me, but its cool to know that I can.

Thank you Iphone 4s for giving me a greater understanding of all of the features that my android phone has had and I didn't even know.

Nice, I never even used that untill I saw this post.

[hater]

Cause and Effect? Financial Times Ditches the App Store, Digital Subs Increase

:lmao :lmao

no 30% for you! :lol

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/11/cause-effect-ft-subs-increase/

The Financial Times reports that it now has 250,000 digital subscribers — up 30 percent from a year ago. For about five of those 12 months, the FT has not been in the App Store, ditching the shop window of Apple’s iPad, iPhone and iPod eco-system and going it alone via mobile Safari with an mobile-optimized HTML5 web app.

Coincidence?

Maybe, or maybe it’s just that the FT is one of those media outlets which really is a must-read for a significant demographic with money to happily spend (or be spent on). Of the quarter-million subscriptions, the FT says in a release, ”100,000 are corporate subscriptions coming from over 2,000 different licences.”

[lefty]

Go Hater, go hater

http://i44.tinypic.com/wulag9.jpghttp://clutch.mtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/vinynsweaty.gif

[hater]

y2TdxPR6JfM

:lmao

[lefty]

fail

[hater]

:lmao fucking nazis

:lol jailbreaking your pc

Apple now requiring Mac App Store applications to be sandboxed by March 2012

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/04/apple-now-requiring-mac-app-store-applications-to-be-sandboxed-b/

Apple's already made OS X more like iOS in more ways than one, and it looks like it will soon be taking another step in that direction. As of March 1st, 2012, Apple will require all apps available in the Mac App Store to be "sandboxed," which Apple says is "a great way to protect systems and users by limiting the resources apps can access and making it more difficult for malicious software to compromise users' systems." The other side of that coin is that by limiting access to said system resources, applications are also more limited in what they can do, which has left some developers facing a tough decision: either comply and get in the App Store, or go it alone. They will be able to request access to some resources, but they'll have to provide a justification for it to Apple as part of the submission process. As TUAW notes, however, this isn't a completely new development -- Apple had actually intended to implement the requirement this month, but it's apparently decided to give devs a bit more time to get used to it.

[ElNono]

So don't publish in the Mac App Store... :downspin:

[leemajors]

You can now purchase accessories within an Apple Store using your iPhone and not having to interact with a "Genius" or sales person - kinda neat, bills it to the card on your iTunes account:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/08/apple-store-ios-app-adds-in-store-purchasing-we-go-hands-on-vi/

[lefty]

You can now purchase accessories within an Apple Store using your iPhone and not having to interact with a "Genius" or sales person - kinda neat, bills it to the card on your iTunes account:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/08/apple-store-ios-app-adds-in-store-purchasing-we-go-hands-on-vi/
SHit

GOod shit

[Libri]

SHit

GOod shit

What kind of case do you have for your cell?

[lefty]

What kind of case do you have for your cell?

Some transparent rubber case

[Libri]

Some transparent rubber case

I ordered a Speck case. Hopefully it looks alright.

[lefty]

I ordered a Speck case. Hopefully it looks alright.

I took mine off yesterday

Easier to hold, I have tiny girly hands :lol

And it looks sexier too

[Venti Quattro]

iOS5 for the iPad2 doesn't have Siri :cry

[lefty]

iOS5 for the iPad doesn't have Siri :cry

It should

Im sure it can support it without slowing down
It has dual core, doesnt it?


Edit: I misread your post, you meant iPad 1

[leemajors]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/14/iconsettings-gives-you-simple-control-of-your-idevice-without-ja/

[lefty]

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/14/iconsettings-gives-you-simple-control-of-your-idevice-without-ja/
THanks for the link

[Venti Quattro]

Half a million Mac computers 'infected with malware' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17623422')

More than half a million Apple computers have been infected with the Flashback Trojan, according to a Russian anti-virus firm.

An investigation by Dr Web suggests that about 600,000 Macs have installed the malware - potentially allowing them to be hijacked and used as a "botnet".

It says that more than half that number are based in the US.

Apple has released a security update, but users who have not installed the patch remain exposed.

Flashback was first detected last September when anti-virus researchers flagged up software masquerading itself as a Flash Player update. Once downloaded it deactivated some of the computer's security software.

Later versions of the malware exploited weaknesses in the Java programming language to allow the code to be installed from bogus sites without the user's permission.

Remote control

Dr Web said that once the Trojan was installed it sent a message to the intruder's control server with a unique ID to identify the infected machine.

"By introducing the code criminals are potentially able to control the machine," the firm's chief executive Boris Sharov told the BBC.

"We stress the word potential as we have never seen any malicious activity since we hijacked the botnet to take it out of criminals' hands. However, we know people create viruses to get money.

"The largest amounts of bots - based on the IP addresses we identified - are in the US, Canada, UK and Australia, so it appears to have targeted English-speaking people."

Dr Web also notes that 274 of the infected computers it detected appeared to be located in Cupertino, California - home to Apple's headquarters.

Update wait

Java's developer, Oracle, issued a fix to the vulnerability on 14 February, but this did not work on Macintoshes as Apple manages Java updates to its computers.

Apple released its own "security update" on Wednesday - more than eight weeks later. It can be triggered by clicking on the software update icon in the computer's system preferences panel.

The security firm F-Secure has also posted detailed instructions about how to confirm if a machine is infected and how to remove the Trojan.

Although Apple's system software limits the actions its computers can take without requesting their users' permission, some security analysts suggest this latest incident highlights the fact that the machines are not invulnerable.

"People used to say that Apple computers, unlike Windows PCs, can't ever be infected - but it's a myth," said Timur Tsoriev, an analyst at Kaspersky Lab.

Apple could not provide a statement at this time.

[lefty]

Lol Macs

Overpriced toys

[leemajors]

Anyone who though they couldn't get something on a Mac is an idiot.

[hater]

:lmao

"we don't get no viruses"

fucking Apple marketing lies :rollin

[Muser]

:lol it's funny seeing all the mac elitists get fucked over.

[resistanze]

It's that shit talking (along with increased sales) that probably helped 'em become a target, tbh.

[Venti Quattro]

:lol it's funny seeing all the mac elitists get fucked over.

Mac fantard: Still not getting an anti-virus :wakeup

[Nathan Explosion]

My old iBook that I just download music on now is still alive and kicking without anti-virus. Of course, no one is going after Macs with PowerPC chips, because, I mean, what idiot would still have one of those.

On the other hand, I just threw down $100 for 2 years of Kaspersky Pure for my desktop. Actually, not a bad price.

[ElNono]

lol installing system hog Norton to delete 2 files...

lol Windows

[hater]

:lmao taking 3 months to release a security fix :lmao

:lmao amateur software company

:lmao we pay $300,000/year to our icon designers. And $25,000/year to our security specialists

:lmao we must release the new icons by tomorrow. The security fix can wait, we don't get viruses

[ElNono]

:lol paying $300,000/year for security specialists and 0day hacks every week

:lol one virus a year, sound the alarms!

:lol Windows

[hater]

:lmao Apple's security team:

:lol outsourced to Indian college dropouts

http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/dynamic/00113/03IN_3IDIOTS_113415f.jpg

[resistanze]

On another note, I tried the iPad 3 yesterday for the first time. Decent device if it's your first iPad and you don't mind paying the premium. I could never imagine upgrading from an iPad 2 to this thqh. Screen was pretty but meh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lol paying $300,000/year for security specialists and 0day hacks every week

:lol one virus a year, sound the alarms!

:lol Windows

When Apple starts producing servers or some other similar networking device that hackers can actually make gains from then let me know.

Its not like their netcode or opcode is some revelation in security. Its just that there is no real money or access that you can get off of them.

Apple products are cheap in every way but price.

[ElNono]

When Apple starts producing servers or some other similar networking device that hackers can actually make gains from then let me know.

MacOS X really isn't that different than any other unix at the core. And there's more Unix servers out there than there are Windows servers.

The biggest problem with Win hacking is largely in the desktop segment, not server side.


Its not like their netcode or opcode is some revelation in security. Its just that there is no real money or access that you can get off of them.

It's BSD with a Mach kernel under it. Pretty standard stuff. It does gain from a lot of years in unix security in general. It also incorporates a lot of the security stuff that's pretty standard these days: ASLR, NX, etc. Windows 7 basically has the same stuff.

I completely agree with the contention they're not a major target. Simply more lucrative to hack the 95% market.


Apple products are cheap in every way but price.

Don't necessarily agree with that as a general rule. I do think they make some terribly overpriced stuff, like the MacPros. I also think they do make top notch quality products like the MBP, and they're priced competitively. They're definitely one of the few companies that are still doing innovation in areas like thermal, battery, etc.

At any rate, talking shit with hater is just an old hobby of ours. :lol

I actually still do programming for all platforms these days: Apple, Windows, Unix... they all have their pro and cons, tbh

[hater]

The biggest problem with Win hacking is largely in the desktop segment, not server side.

:lmao wow

[ElNono]

:lmao wow

What's "wow" about it? :lmao

:lol no clue about security

:lol don't know what a botnet is

:lol laughs at things he doesn't understand

[hater]

What's "wow" about it? :lmao

:lol no clue about security

:lol don't know what a botnet is

:lol laughs at things he doesn't understand

:lol more worried about grandma's email getting hacked rather than your ecommerce website getting hacked

:lol "bigger problem"

[ElNono]

:lol more worried about grandma's email getting hacked rather than your ecommerce website getting hacked

:lol "bigger problem"

:lol thinking hackers are interested in anybody's email :lmao

:lol no clue what hackers do with zombie boxes

:lol never had a clue about security

:lol never actually worked in cybersecurity

:lol still talking

[Muser]

On another note, I tried the iPad 3 yesterday for the first time. Decent device if it's your first iPad and you don't mind paying the premium. I could never imagine upgrading from an iPad 2 to this thqh. Screen was pretty but meh.

I'm looking to get one tbh. Would you say the iPad 3 has enough going for it or should I go for the cheaper iPad 2?

[hater]

:lmao thinking a zombiebox is bigger problem than 10,000 customer credit info being hacked from server

:lmao applefan talking computer security

:lmao Apple sucks, stick with the topic

[ElNono]

:lmao thinking a zombiebox is bigger problem than 10,000 customer credit info being hacked from server

:lmao applefan talking computer security

:lmao Apple sucks, stick with the topic

:lmao thinking 1 trillion spam emails a day are less profitable than 10,000 stolen CCs

:lmao thinking carding is where the money is for black hats

:lmao don't even know what carding is

:lmao thinks I'm an applefan

:lmao thinks I don't work in computer security

:lmao thinks I don't think Apple can and does suck

:lmao better change the subject real quick

[ElNono]

I'm looking to get one tbh. Would you say the iPad 3 has enough going for it or should I go for the cheaper iPad 2?

Wife upgraded a 1st gen to it, and very pleased with the upgrade.

[hater]

:rollin backtracking from "bigger problem" to "more profitable"

:rollin "spam emails" are worst than "stolen customer credit cards" to coorporations

:rollin applefan working in computer security

:rollin pickpocketing is a bigger problem than murders because they happen more often

[ElNono]

:rollin backtracking from "bigger problem" to "more profitable"

:rollin "spam emails" are worst than "stolen customer credit cards" to coorporations

:rollin applefan working in computer security

:rollin

:rollin thinks hackers are in it to "cause problems" :lmao :lmao :lmao

:rollin have no clue CCs are traceable and thus low value

:rollin still thinking I'm applefan when I have 4x more non-Apple systems

:rollin don't know anything about security

:rollin begging to go back to the original topic

[hater]

:rollin pickpocketing is a bigger problem than murders because they happen more often


:lmao :lmao :lmao

[ElNono]

:rollin pickpocketing is a bigger problem than murders because they happen more often

Going with analogies that have nothing to do with security because simpleton doesn't understand security.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ElNono]

Tell me more how pickpocketing equals spam :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[ElNono]

Or murder equals stolen CCs!

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Don't necessarily agree with that as a general rule. I do think they make some terribly overpriced stuff, like the MacPros. I also think they do make top notch quality products like the MBP, and they're priced competitively. They're definitely one of the few companies that are still doing innovation in areas like thermal, battery, etc.

I could not disagree with you more. Apple is notorious for combining short warranties with inferior products because its cheaper to deal with recalls for a year than put out a good product or do decent QC.

This is the case for their batteries, monitors, hard drives, memory etc. They make those design decisions as a matter of course.

They also are hardly 'one of the few' companies that R&D's batteries, heat sinks, dispersion, etc.

[ElNono]

I could not disagree with you more. Apple is notorious for combining short warranties with inferior products because its cheaper to deal with recalls for a year than put out a good product or do decent QC.

Compared to who?
HP: 1 year warranty
Dell: 1 year warranty
Sony: 1 year warranty
Apple: 1 year warranty

They all let you buy "extended" coverage, including Apple.

They all source from the same guys. Foxconn, Samsung, etc.


This is the case for their batteries, monitors, hard drives, memory etc. They make those design decisions as a matter of course.

They don't design components, but they do design their systems. The reason their laptops are always atop battery life, lowest heat, etc have everything to do with top notch system design.


They also are hardly 'one of the few' companies that R&D's batteries, heat sinks, dispersion, etc.

You're talking components, I'm talking systems. Apple stopped building systems largely with custom components a long time ago. They do still provide their own power-management firmware for hard drives and the like. Every company is jumping on things like unibody laptops and desktops, and that's entirely Apple's innovation.

On the other hand, their MacPros are an overpriced regular PC.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Compared to who?
HP: 1 year warranty
Dell: 1 year warranty
Sony: 1 year warranty
Apple: 1 year warranty

They all let you buy "extended" coverage, including Apple.

They all source from the same guys. Foxconn, Samsung, etc.



They don't design components, but they do design their systems. The reason their laptops are always atop battery life, lowest heat, etc have everything to do with top notch system design.



You're talking components, I'm talking systems. Apple stopped building systems largely with custom components a long time ago. They do still provide their own power-management firmware for hard drives and the like. Every company is jumping on things like unibody laptops and desktops, and that's entirely Apple's innovation.

On the other hand, their MacPros are an overpriced regular PC.

They don't all buy the same products from the manufacturers and again Apple does not QC for shit on cheap products. Thats a systems design decision. Combine that with the same shitty warranties and you have a Dell that costs $2500.

Quite frankly, buying any prefab is a bad idea especially the one that costs twice as much.

[leemajors]

Apple does source their components from the vendors everyone else uses. Hynix, LG, Sony, Intel, Samsung, Broadcom, Hitachi, WD, ATI/NVidia etc.

[ElNono]

They don't all buy the same products from the manufacturers and again Apple does not QC for shit on cheap products. Thats a systems design decision. Combine that with the same shitty warranties and you have a Dell that costs $2500.

I'll take the QC comment as anecdotal. Every company has to deal with defects, and a lot of them don't own up to them until pressed to do so.

They also all offer the same warranties and extended warranties programs.

Apple is actually on the good side of malfunction rate (http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/11/17/reliability.study.has.apple.4th.place/)


Quite frankly, buying any prefab is a bad idea especially the one that costs twice as much.

Well, not all of them cost twice as much, and frankly, there are legitimate reasons to buy prefabs, any brand.

Probably doesn't make much sense for the computer savvy though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'll take the QC comment as anecdotical. Every company has to deal with defects, and a lot of them don't own up to them until pressed to do so.

They also all offer the same warranties and extended warranties programs.

Apple is actually on the good side of malfunction rate (http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/11/17/reliability.study.has.apple.4th.place/)



Well, not all of them cost twice as much, and frankly, there are legitimate reasons to buy prefabs, any brand.

Probably doesn't make much sense for the computer savvy though.

Thats notebooks and the 'anecdote' begins with my experience with Apple iPods and extends to specific commentary from my design professor about how Apple approaches QC, warranties and whatnot specifically he brought up hard drives and monitors. Cost is pretty central to design.

Perhaps they have responded to all the criticism they were getting as they were getting hammered for it 5 years ago but a quick google search of 'apple quality control' brings up a whole lot of bitching about iPhone, iPod, and iPad QC. After my third iPod's HD took a shit, I just gave up on the company.

[ElNono]

Thats notebooks and the 'anecdote' begins with my experience with Apple iPods and extends to specific commentary from my design professor about how Apple approaches QC, warranties and whatnot specifically he brought up hard drives and monitors. Cost is pretty central to design.

Perhaps they have responded to all the criticism they were getting as they were getting hammered for it 5 years ago but a quick google search of 'apple quality control' brings up a whole lot of bitching about iPhone, iPod, and iPad QC. After my third iPod's HD took a shit, I just gave up on the company.

Now wait a second, Fuzzy. If you're talking their gadget/phone/pad market, I'll be more inclined to agree with you. After all, they do much more custom component design on those (all the way to the CPU), and thus it's only fair they shoulder more of the blame. It's also a much different market than the regular computer market for them, seeing they've a fairly sizable share of it. It's also a market that markedly different as prefab is the only option there.

But on the mainstream computer market (desktops/laptops/servers, which is what I was referring to) they're really not that different from any other major vendor. There's certainly an Apple tax (as there is a Sony tax), but it's a market with much more competition for them, and much smaller margins.
In that market they source their components from just the same companies everyone else does. In that market though, their system design in certain areas has been top notch, but simply because it's one of the few areas where they can stand out.

[Venti Quattro]

France vs Argentina even in the Apple thread LMAO

[ElNono]

hater is french? :lmao

[Venti Quattro]

hater is french? :lmao

He's not?

:lol Venti Quattro
:lol poor research

[lefty]

The Bat-Tablet

Coming June 2012, bitches !

http://i.imgur.com/q9ZGu.jpg

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Now wait a second, Fuzzy. If you're talking their gadget/phone/pad market, I'll be more inclined to agree with you. After all, they do much more custom component design on those (all the way to the CPU), and thus it's only fair they shoulder more of the blame. It's also a much different market than the regular computer market for them, seeing they've a fairly sizable share of it. It's also a market that markedly different as prefab is the only option there.

But on the mainstream computer market (desktops/laptops/servers, which is what I was referring to) they're really not that different from any other major vendor. There's certainly an Apple tax (as there is a Sony tax), but it's a market with much more competition for them, and much smaller margins.
In that market they source their components from just the same companies everyone else does. In that market though, their system design in certain areas has been top notch, but simply because it's one of the few areas where they can stand out.

I feel like we are going around in circles. The manufacturer may do its own QC or it may not. The defect rate of the components is established. Coils are going to overlap and bearings are going to misalign etc.

The system still has to be assembled. As its being put together QC can happen at various places from receipt, along the line, as well as the final product. While QC decreases defects that make it through, it costs money in labor equipment etc.

Apple judges how to handle that by cost. Its cheaper to deal with recalls like they did with all of those laptop batteries 5 years ago and warranty service than it is to actually QC so for the most part they ignore it. They only have to last a year.

Compare that with Sager, Asus, or Alienware and they QC stringently and use better hardware. I would take a prefab Sager which costs about the same every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Its just how Apple has always done business. When they engineer their own stuff it just shows more because they don't QC for shit on both manufacture and assembly so you get an extra special shit sandwich.

I really loathe Apple's business practices. I really feel like they con people. When they told people that not paying out stock dividends was cutting edge or view their nebulous patent applications it cements that feeling. I know they are going to go about fucking all manner of people now that the patent law has been changed to first to file.

Its just how they do business.

[leemajors]

Thats notebooks and the 'anecdote' begins with my experience with Apple iPods and extends to specific commentary from my design professor about how Apple approaches QC, warranties and whatnot specifically he brought up hard drives and monitors. Cost is pretty central to design.

Perhaps they have responded to all the criticism they were getting as they were getting hammered for it 5 years ago but a quick google search of 'apple quality control' brings up a whole lot of bitching about iPhone, iPod, and iPad QC. After my third iPod's HD took a shit, I just gave up on the company.

They just settled a class action suit late last year I believe about first gen Nano batteries. If you happen to have one lying around you can get a free like for like replacement.

[ElNono]

I feel like we are going around in circles. The manufacturer may do its own QC or it may not. The defect rate of the components is established. Coils are going to overlap and bearings are going to misalign etc.

The system still has to be assembled. As its being put together QC can happen at various places from receipt, along the line, as well as the final product. While QC decreases defects that make it through, it costs money in labor equipment etc.

Apple judges how to handle that by cost. Its cheaper to deal with recalls like they did with all of those laptop batteries 5 years ago and warranty service than it is to actually QC so for the most part they ignore it. They only have to last a year.

Uh? The major reason for malfunctions is far and away component failure. Fujitsu, Sony, Toshiba and Gateway all had to recall batteries for the exact same issue (bulging/fire).


Compare that with Sager, Asus, or Alienware and they QC stringently and use better hardware. I would take a prefab Sager which costs about the same every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Sager is the *only* one of those that actually does individual unit testing. Alienware stopped in the early 2000's and if you actually look for Alienware quality control issues articles you'll find plenty. Asus is no different (http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/asus-transformer-prime-teardown-solid-tablet-but-not-without-flaws/399).

They all use the same sourcing of components, except for Asus, who actually designs and manufactures the motherboards and the PLL control chip.

Sager doesn't manufacture any component, they also only offer a 1 year warranty, you have to pay shipping to send your unit back even under warranty, and they fail just like everyone else's (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Sager).


Its just how Apple has always done business. When they engineer their own stuff it just shows more because they don't QC for shit on both manufacture and assembly so you get an extra special shit sandwich.

I really loathe Apple's business practices. I really feel like they con people. When they told people that not paying out stock dividends was cutting edge or view their nebulous patent applications it cements that feeling. I know they are going to go about fucking all manner of people now that the patent law has been changed to first to file.

Its just how they do business.

Looks like it's personal :lol

I like some of their products, and I don't think they necessarily do business much different from other companies. I also loathe some of their products and decisions, which I have to put up with on a daily basis (ie: When I really want to do something I know you can do on their devices, but you can't do it because they won't "approve it" to sale on their store. Walled garden isn't just for users).

I also avoid their hardware tax like the plague whenever I can. When I needed a high end box, I simply put a hackintosh together. There's simply no added value on their high end products to make it enticing for me.
I would never look at their offerings for a server.
On the other hand, when I needed a small box for low end stuff at home about 3 years ago, a MacMini at $600 was a good buy. I very likely wouldn't buy one of their current MacMinis at that price today. But back then it was a decent deal. I upgraded the shit out of that box, and frankly never had issues with it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Uh? The major reason for malfunctions is far and away component failure. Fujitsu, Sony, Toshiba and Gateway all had to recall batteries for the exact same issue (bulging/fire).



Sager is the *only* one of those that actually does individual unit testing. Alienware stopped in the early 2000's and if you actually look for Alienware quality control issues articles you'll find plenty. Asus is no different (http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/asus-transformer-prime-teardown-solid-tablet-but-not-without-flaws/399).

They all use the same sourcing of components, except for Asus, who actually designs and manufactures the motherboards and the PLL control chip.

Sager doesn't manufacture any component, they also only offer a 1 year warranty, you have to pay shipping to send your unit back even under warranty, and they fail just like everyone else's (http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Sager).



Looks like it's personal :lol

I like some of their products, and I don't think they necessarily do business much different from other companies. I also loathe some of their products and decisions, which I have to put up with on a daily basis (ie: When I really want to do something I know you can do on their devices, but you can't do it because they won't "approve it" to sale on their store. Walled garden isn't just for users).

I also avoid their hardware tax like the plague whenever I can. When I needed a high end box, I simply put a hackintosh together. There's simply no added value on their high end products to make it enticing for me.
I would never look at their offerings for a server.
On the other hand, when I needed a small box for low end stuff at home about 3 years ago, a MacMini at $600 was a good buy. I very likely wouldn't buy one of their current MacMinis at that price today. But back then it was a decent deal. I upgraded the shit out of that box, and frankly never had issues with it.

Well of course some QC is going to fail. Some problems manifest after minimal wear but it passes inspection. the point though is that they actually try and make sure the products they send out actually work. Apple does not.

i guess you could call it personal especially from the patent angle but at the same time I cannot think of a single level that I can appreciate their business practices. When you talked about the HD 'firmware' as a energy conservation principle I couldn't help but roll my eyes. If they are marketing that that just underscores my point. So much of what they do is style without substance from their IPO to the assembly line.

[ElNono]

Well of course some QC is going to fail. Some problems manifest after minimal wear but it passes inspection. the point though is that they actually try and make sure the products they send out actually work. Apple does not.

I'll just agree to disagree with this. They did have a fairly high (~20%) failure rate with iPods units that had a hard drive, which was about halved with flash units. I haven't heard anything about high failure rates for their other product lineups though.


i guess you could call it personal especially from the patent angle but at the same time I cannot think of a single level that I can appreciate their business practices. When you talked about the HD 'firmware' as a energy conservation principle I couldn't help but roll my eyes. If they are marketing that that just underscores my point. So much of what they do is style without substance from their IPO to the assembly line.

Actually, the hard drive firmware thing is simply a design decision. HDs in general are either active or spun down with heads parked. Spinning the drive up is time consuming, uses a lot of juice and does wear and tear. Their firmware adds an intermediate sleep mode (using a custom SATA command), where the heads get parked and the motor keeps spinning at a very low speed. It's used as the primary sleep mode when you close your computer, and after a certain amount of time, if you didn't wake up your system, then it puts it on deep sleep (turns off the motor). There's more design stuff like that. For example, their thermal and fan control is hardware-based (using a chip called the SMC), and so devices need to have their temp sensors with a direct link to the chip. That's why even though most HDs have internal temp sensors, Apple still includes an external sensor on the drives.

Obviously, if you swap the drive with a non-Apple drive, it still works. You just don't get the intermediate sleep mode, and thus the drive will suck more juice until it goes to deep sleep.

I don't think they market any of this stuff. At least, I don't know that they do. But it's stuff that guys like me who has been seeing hardware for 20+ years do notice.

hater likes to call me an applefan or whatever, but a lot of people here can tell you I have my critique of Apple too. I specifically agree with you and I don't like what their doing with their patents (the patent trolling system in general sucks, and Apple is part of the problem).

I also have no loyalties other than those that pay my bills. These days that includes Apple, Windows and Linux. Being married to a single platform and not adapting is a poor business decision.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'll just agree to disagree with this. They did have a fairly high (~20%) failure rate with iPods units that had a hard drive, which was about halved with flash units. I haven't heard anything about high failure rates for their other product lineups though.



Actually, the hard drive firmware thing is simply a design decision. HDs in general are either active or spun down with heads parked. Spinning the drive up is time consuming, uses a lot of juice and does wear and tear. Their firmware adds an intermediate sleep mode (using a custom SATA command), where the heads get parked and the motor keeps spinning at a very low speed. It's used as the primary sleep mode when you close your computer, and after a certain amount of time, if you didn't wake up your system, then it puts it on deep sleep (turns off the motor). There's more design stuff like that. For example, their thermal and fan control is hardware-based (using a chip called the SMC), and so devices need to have their temp sensors with a direct link to the chip. That's why even though most HDs have internal temp sensors, Apple still includes an external sensor on the drives.

Obviously, if you swap the drive with a non-Apple drive, it still works. You just don't get the intermediate sleep mode, and thus the drive will suck more juice until it goes to deep sleep.

I don't think they market any of this stuff. At least, I don't know that they do. But it's stuff that guys like me who has been seeing hardware for 20+ years do notice.

hater likes to call me an applefan or whatever, but a lot of people here can tell you I have my critique of Apple too. I specifically agree with you and I don't like what their doing with their patents (the patent trolling system in general sucks, and Apple is part of the problem).

I also have no loyalties other than those that pay my bills. These days that includes Apple, Windows and Linux. Being married to a single platform and not adapting is a poor business decision.

What I am trying to get at is what is the savings in terms of efficiency over the conventional firmware relative to the power consumption of DRAM and the CPU?

[ElNono]

What I am trying to get at is what is the savings in terms of efficiency over the conventional firmware relative to the power consumption of DRAM and the CPU?

Well, this kicks in when you sleep the system. Basically, DRAM has been dumped to the drive and is off and the CPU is on deep sleep (ACPI C3/C4).

The CPU probably still uses more power than the HD, even on sleep mode.
IIRC, Energy Star 4 mandates HDs to use 7W on idle.

Slowing down the drive though also realizes savings in other areas. The drive will cool down as part of the process and you can slow or shut down fans.

CPUs and Graphics card have introduced power saving modes over the years. Hard drives never quite got there. Only recently (~2010) Hitachi has started to introduce power saving states and quiet spinup and spindown tech on their drives.

The notebook market is a cutthroat market, and even more so for Apple, whose MacMini and iMac lineups are entirely based on notebook tech (even if they don't use batteries, they do use notebook components and share the thermal aspects). Any small improvements on thermal and battery life are huge for them and gives them a small but quantifiable leg up on competitors.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Market share certainly plays a role, but in subtle ways, agrees Stefan Savage, a professor of computer science and engineering at the University of California, San Diego. "Clearly, if a platform is unpopular then there is really not much interest in focusing on it," he adds. "In this regard, a platform's security depends on its popularity and the level of effort versus reward—that is, what is the expected return on effort."

For cyber attackers, the decision to write malware for a particular operating system is an investment requiring the development of new skills, the acquisition of new software programs, even the learning of new slang, Savage says. "It's not something one does lightly," he adds. "Moreover, for malware there is an established ecosystem around Windows that really helps reinforce that platform's dominance [as a target], including malware-writing tools, markets to buy and sell malware, infrastructure to deploy malware and lots of open-source information on new exploitation techniques. It takes time to build that kind of community. Market share certainly drives such things, but there is quite a bit of inertia as well."

Assessments of a computing platform's security can often be subjective, with the results often depending on a computer user's preference. There are, however, several areas where operating systems can be judged head to head, Savage says, adding that OS X has consistently been behind Windows in producing what have become standard security mechanisms. "And I'm unaware of Apple putting the level of investment into security that Microsoft has."

excerpt from http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=flashback-mac-security-attack

[TDMVPDPOY]

anyone use to remember the hardware apple was using b4 adopting intel CPUS were the bomb in its high end mac comps...so why did they jump to intels...

[ElNono]

They were using IBM's PowerPC... And it was much more expensive than intel chips for marginal speed advantage (if any)...

But it's unrelated to the exploits. Those exist on any platform with any CPU.

These yearly "new" Mac viruses are actually pretty weak compared to what you see on Windows as far as sophistication goes (root kits, etc). It's not because Mac OS is necessarily any more secure than Win7, it's just because it's a much, much smaller market.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

anyone use to remember the hardware apple was using b4 adopting intel CPUS were the bomb in its high end mac comps...so why did they jump to intels...

Because Apple is cheap and intel chips are/were cheaper to make.

[ElNono]

Because Apple is cheap and intel chips are/were cheaper to make.

That, and IBM/Freescale really slacking on the PowerPC front. They promised 3GHz chips for two years and never delivered. On top of that, Intel chips consumed less power and ran cooler, a major factor for laptops.

tbh, jumping to PowerPC was a mistake when the decision was made. I think it was Gil Amelio that did it? It was during Apple's darkest financial years.

[hater]

Apple is all about the brand now. They probably will start putting in generic chinese parts made out of lead to save money.

[leemajors]

That, and IBM/Freescale really slacking on the PowerPC front. They promised 3GHz chips for two years and never delivered. On top of that, Intel chips consumed less power and ran cooler, a major factor for laptops.

tbh, jumping to PowerPC was a mistake when the decision was made. I think it was Gil Amelio that did it? It was during Apple's darkest financial years.

Yeah IBM got pretty busy selling everything off and letting thousands of employees go for a while. They made a tidy sum just off selling all that land in North Austin to Simon to build the Domain shopping center and retroactively cutting pensions off 30 years previous to 2005.

[Heath Ledger]

Hackintosh is definitely the way to go i.m.h.o. I have an I5 box dual boots Lion and Windows 7 and couldn't be happier. Hackintoshes are much easier to build with TonyMacs tools and run pretty much flawless.

[spursflow]

Just like anything 3 years old... it starts to slow down. Try updating, then restoring. If those both don't work you can try the apple store. I've had a few instances between myself and my family where we felt a product wasn't up to "par". They replaced it no problem.
Now if you go in with a 3 year old product, it will be a bit harder to do with a phone... with a laptop, no problem.
Also, if you go in saying "apple suxxzz!!!" ... they also won't help you.