The only way to get rid of RJ?

[I. Hustle]

Would it have to be a 3 way trade? I think he could still be good given the right pg. You package him with Tony and the team that gets both ends up with the same pos. However, put him with a Nash or Paul type pg and he could be decent again.

[nkdlunch]

the only way I see RJ trades is something like Manu + Parker + RJ for Arenas + Hedo + Nelson

[I. Hustle]

Lol what? And make SA another Miami? The nba won't allow us to have a powerhouse team like that.

[nkdlunch]

my point is only way to get rid of RJ is to include Manu and get even worse contracts back.

[Fpoonsie]

Hiv?

[I. Hustle]

Aids?

[ElNono]

Brake his legs?

[cheguevara]

a 14 incher with unlimited batteries

[k_nguyen93]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181927

[I. Hustle]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181927

Oh because this is about D Howard?

[I. Hustle]

Diabeetus?

[Beaverfuzz]

deez nutz?

[Thompson]

All-expenses-paid vacation in Mexico? Throw in a gold pendant necklace and a wad of $100 bills he can flash.

[spurtech09]

let rj spend the night with your dumb morons lmao lol jk

[4>0rings]

A gay coach...

[DMC]

Put RJ on a team where he doesn't have to play team defense, isn't required to think in crucial situations and isn't relied upon in the latter parts of the season and he's golden for 30 million. Raptors, without a doubt. No defense, none of them think in crucial situations because they are often being blown out, and they don't get to the post season so RJ cannot choke there.

[JonNOKC]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=63mnyhp

I would talk to Cleveland and do a RJ/Dice for B. Davis deal (even throw in a pick or rights to De Colo or something if you had to)

Ultimately the money difference isn't that great (RJ 30 over 3 / Davis at 28 over 2) and while Davis doesn't seem to have some of the attitude problems he use to i would still fill more comfortable with RJ around young guys in terms of setting a example and professionalism. Plus Davis averaged only 24 mins a game last year and now with Irving and obvious youth movement that time would only go down.

Spurs get veteran PG to play behind TP who is no more overpaid than RJ and should be thankful to be given the chance at winning in his final years

[pawe]

make him sleep with the fishes.

[GSH]

make him sleep with the fishes.

:tu


The last time we made a deal to get rid of a bad contract, it cost us Scola. I like your way better.

[EricD]

Most of y'all are clowns. Just because RJ, along with the 11 other Spurs, had a bad series doesn't mean he can't play anywhere. The guy averaged 12 points on 40+% shooting from 3 all damn year 80+ fucking games.

Teams like the Cavs, Bobcats and Clippers could use still a player like him. Spurs just have to add quality assets like Blair and a pick to the package to lighten the pile of crap they get back in return, mainly due to his salary.

[Spursfan092120]

Most of y'all are clowns. Just because RJ, along with the 11 other Spurs, had a bad series doesn't mean he can't play anywhere. The guy averaged 12 points on 40+% shooting from 3 all damn year 80+ fucking games.

Teams like the Cavs, Bobcats and Clippers could use still a player like him. Spurs just have to add quality assets like Blair and a pick to the package to lighten the pile of crap they get back in return.

:tu

[EricD]

:tu

Wow a Spurfan with sense. Would you look at that!

[Russo21]

As far as i know the Cavs don't have a SF on the roster?
And they have JJ Hickson and Antawn Jamison at PF, both are similar in production but with a massive contract difference (jamison 13 million, hickson 1.5 million)

I wander if the Cavs would unload Antawn Jamison in exchange for Richard Jefferson and Antonio's expiring contract.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5vo8fjr

[ChuckD]

Most of y'all are clowns. Just because RJ, along with the 11 other Spurs, had a bad series doesn't mean he can't play anywhere. The guy averaged 12 points on 40+% shooting from 3 all damn year 80+ fucking games.

Teams like the Cavs, Bobcats and Clippers could use still a player like him. Spurs just have to add quality assets like Blair and a pick to the package to lighten the pile of crap they get back in return, mainly due to his salary.

They dangled Tony on draft day, and no team would take him because the price was taking RJ also. Somehow, I don't think Blair and picks gets it done. :lol

[EricD]

They dangled Tony on draft day, and no team would take him because the price was taking RJ also. Somehow, I don't think Blair and picks gets it done. :lol

Or maybe Spurs turned them down and laughed and asked for more, which other teams weren't willing to do?

At the same time, it's very hard and idiotic to take on 22 million, RJ/TP, in salary with the unknown of the new CBA.

RJ + Blair would only be 40% of that which makes it more tolerable.

Get a clue.

Spurs will find a suitor for RJ with Blair being the sweetner. Mark my words.

[EricD]

As far as i know the Cavs don't have a SF on the roster?
And they have JJ Hickson and Antawn Jamison at PF, both are similar in production but with a massive contract difference (jamison 13 million, hickson 1.5 million)

I wander if the Cavs would unload Antawn Jamison in exchange for Richard Jefferson and Antonio's expiring contract.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5vo8fjr


Another dumbshit.

Wow, ST is really amazing.

Why would Cleveland want to add more salary for Jamison when Jamison is set to come off the books? THEY ARE REBUILDING.

If anything Varejao will be the guy that gets moved because he has 4 years left on his contract, especially with the drafting of Thompson out of UT which makes Varejao's production/minutes expendable.

Some of y'all clowns make David Kahn look like R.C at times.

[ChuckD]

Or maybe Spurs turned them down and laughed and asked for more, which other teams weren't willing to do?

At the same time, it's very hard and idiotic to take on 22 million, RJ/TP, in salary with the unknown of the new CBA.

RJ + Blair would only be 40% of that which makes it more tolerable.

Get a clue.

Spurs will find a suitor for RJ with Blair being the sweetner. Mark my words.

Sacramento had need of a veteran scoring SF and a PG, and could easily have absorbed the money on their cap.

[EricD]

Sacramento had need of a veteran scoring SF and a PG, and could easily have absorbed the money on their cap.

Or they could just drafted Jimmer, saved 22 million and kept their young core together SINCE THEY ARE REBUILDING.

You're a moron.

R.J and Blair can bring back a decent piece. Just be patient. Go look at the trade thread in think tank- there's plenty of realistic scenarios from posters who are much more knowledgeable than you, that's for sure.

[TDMVPDPOY]

trade rj back to the bucks for jax + fillers (delfino? but prefer a big if they have one under 2m)

if we cant get that backup pg, get jax to play point forward

avoid goodens contract

jax contract expires the same time as ginoboli, thats what? 20-25m off the books, we be under the cap........good for d12 sweepstakes if his serious about coming here....

[Vic Petro]

Amnesty clause

[cdcast]

trade rj back to the bucks for jax + fillers (delfino? but prefer a big if they have one under 2m)

if we cant get that backup pg, get jax to play point forward

avoid goodens contract

jax contract expires the same time as ginoboli, thats what? 20-25m off the books, we be under the cap........good for d12 sweepstakes if his serious about coming here....

The best the Spurs could offer would probably be RJ, Dice contract, Blair, Joseph, and picks for Jax and Beno.

The Bucks have 3 PGs now with Jennings, Livingston, and Beno but Beno makes the most of the three. Jax and Beno combined salary next season is about $16 mil- Beno as a $7 mil backup is alot of money and both contracts only last 2 yrs.- RJ's lasts 3. Can't see the Bucks wanting that.

Other teams can offer better deals than Spurs.

[TDMVPDPOY]

The best the Spurs could offer would probably be RJ, Dice contract, Blair, Joseph, and picks for Jax and Beno.

The Bucks have 3 PGs now with Jennings, Livingston, and Beno but Beno makes the most of the three. Jax and Beno combined salary next season is about $16 mil- Beno as a $7 mil backup is alot of money and both contracts only last 2 yrs.- RJ's lasts 3. Can't see the Bucks wanting that.

Other teams can offer better deals than Spurs.

wont extend ghill, but willing to pay beno 7m or whatever is remainin :(....beno is still the same wanker the day he left nothing has change about his game or any improvement

[Ditty]

RJ, and Blair for Childress, and Warrick..Childress has an extra year on his contract I believe.

Use Mcdyess for big man

All these below actually work by the numbers:

Either Dice for Darko swap. We do need a big body.

If Cleveland really wants to clean house, Varejao, and Graham for Dice, and Bonner.

Dice,and Bonner for Biedrins.

Only ones I can think of which are realistic.

[cutewizard]

Put RJ on a team where he doesn't have to play team defense, isn't required to think in crucial situations and isn't relied upon in the latter parts of the season and he's golden for 30 million. Raptors, without a doubt. No defense, none of them think in crucial situations because they are often being blown out, and they don't get to the post season so RJ cannot choke there.




indeed

[Bruno]

RJ will be difficult to trade but not impossible. Spurs just need to accept to take back a bad contract for it.

[JonNOKC]

RJ will be difficult to trade but not impossible. Spurs just need to accept to take back a bad contract for it.

Exactly - we are not going to be able to trade RJ and get someone back of value unless that person has a bad contract as well. So we have to look for someone who is overpaid like RJ but maybe is a better fit and probably also offer a sweetner (Blair, future pick, someones rights) as Eric D has said.

That is why I suggested the RJ/Baron Davis trade with CLE

The only other option is to trade RJ for 2 overpaid scrubs or guys with bad contracts for longer period of time than RJ

CLE has no incentive to give away Jamison (an expiring) or use trade exception (from James) unless they are getting a really good player in return.

[Mel_13]

Exactly - we are not going to be able to trade RJ and get someone back of value unless that person has a bad contract as well. So we have to look for someone who is overpaid like RJ but maybe is a better fit and probably also offer a sweetner (Blair, future pick, someones rights) as Eric D has said.

That is why I suggested the RJ/Baron Davis trade with CLE

The only other option is to trade RJ for 2 overpaid scrubs or guys with bad contracts for longer period of time than RJ

CLE has no incentive to give away Jamison (an expiring) or use trade exception (from James) unless they are getting a really good player in return.

There are worse fits, and worse contracts, than Richard Jefferson. Baron Davis is one example.

[Silverheart80]

Exactly - we are not going to be able to trade RJ and get someone back of value unless that person has a bad contract as well. So we have to look for someone who is overpaid like RJ but maybe is a better fit and probably also offer a sweetner (Blair, future pick, someones rights) as Eric D has said.

That is why I suggested the RJ/Baron Davis trade with CLE

The only other option is to trade RJ for 2 overpaid scrubs or guys with bad contracts for longer period of time than RJ

CLE has no incentive to give away Jamison (an expiring) or use trade exception (from James) unless they are getting a really good player in return.

This might be the only RJ trade scenario that makes sense so far (to CLE for BDavis. I can't see Pop trusting the backup PG role in crunch time to Cory Joseph as a rookie. If TP gets in foul trouble or gets hurt, Davis off the bench makes sense for any realistic chance at contending. Obvious win for him, as he gets to be a vital cog on a winner late in his career.

I watched a lot of Longhorn BB games last year, and Joseph looked shaky running the offense in crunch time, especially late-season. Fearless shooter no doubt, but needs to work on decision-making, even if he had stayed at Texas. Plus, he needs at least a year of seasoning & strength-conditioning, even as a 1st rounder. Glad he's a Spur, but he's a spot contributor at best this year.

Getting RJ out is total addition by subtraction. Watching him go Casper in crunch time is nauseating. That's one thing you can't argue about BDavis -- he's never been afraid to make big shots and put games on his shoulders. When RJ was in the game in crunch time last year, Spurs were playing 4 on 5, which was especially glaring vs. the Grizz.

Our two biggest needs are a skilled big man, and a veteran backup PG. This solves the latter.

I'd be totally onboard w/ this deal.

[yavozerb]

This might be the only RJ trade scenario that makes sense so far (to CLE for BDavis. I can't see Pop trusting the backup PG role in crunch time to Cory Joseph as a rookie. If TP gets in foul trouble or gets hurt, Davis off the bench makes sense for any realistic chance at contending. Obvious win for him, as he gets to be a vital cog on a winner late in his career.

I watched a lot of Longhorn BB games last year, and Joseph looked shaky running the offense in crunch time, especially late-season. Fearless shooter no doubt, but needs to work on decision-making, even if he had stayed at Texas. Plus, he needs at least a year of seasoning & strength-conditioning, even as a 1st rounder. Glad he's a Spur, but he's a spot contributor at best this year.

Getting RJ out is total addition by subtraction. Watching him go Casper in crunch time is nauseating. That's one thing you can't argue about BDavis -- he's never been afraid to make big shots and put games on his shoulders. When RJ was in the game in crunch time last year, Spurs were playing 4 on 5, which was especially glaring vs. the Grizz.

Our two biggest needs are a skilled big man, and a veteran backup PG. This solves the latter.

I'd be totally onboard w/ this deal.

Disagree..No way pop is going to hand over the starting SF to Leonard right off the bat to a rookie. Sf is still much higher need position than back-up pg and to be honest the spurs are simply looking for a 4th of 5th big man. They are not going to get a starting 4 like most people think. FA I believe is how they are gonna solve these problem area's, not through trades.

[dbestpro]

RJ will be difficult to trade but not impossible. Spurs just need to accept to take back a bad contract for it.

I think you posted a while back the suggestion of Travis Outlaw who NJ would like to get rid of it seems just as much as RJ because of his bad year. I would make that trade and hope the fresh start would be good for both.

[yavozerb]

I think you posted a while back the suggestion of Travis Outlaw who NJ would like to get rid of it seems just as much as RJ because of his bad year. I would make that trade and hope the fresh start would be good for both.

NJ is almost 20 mil under the current cap, so a bad contract like outlaw is not nearly a big a deal as rj's is too the spurs. No reason for the nets to make that trade unless a sweetner was added by the spurs like a 1st rd pick or a young player like blair or anderson.

[Mel_13]

RJ will be difficult to trade but not impossible. Spurs just need to accept to take back a bad contract for it.


I think you posted a while back the suggestion of Travis Outlaw who NJ would like to get rid of it seems just as much as RJ because of his bad year. I would make that trade and hope the fresh start would be good for both.

Some players that are on bad contracts, have worn out their welcomes, or both and could be the main piece in an RJ trade(I've left out the truly horrible contracts of Arenas, Lewis, and Davis):

ATL- Marvin Williams 4yrs/28M

CHA- Corey Maggette 2yrs/21M

DEN- Al Harrington 4yrs/28M (21M guaranteed)

DET- Richard Hamilton 2yrs/25M

GS- Andres Biedrins 3yrs/27M

NJ- Travis Outlaw 4yrs/28M

PHX- Josh Childress 4yrs/27M

[Amarelooms]

Mavs will give you Haywood and trash for RJ and that no knee Blair....God bless sons

:elephant

[jeebus]

Mavs will give you Haywood and trash for RJ and that no knee Blair....God bless sons

:elephant
son is this recyclable trash or toxic?

:elephant

[Leetonidas]

Most of y'all are clowns. Just because RJ, along with the 11 other Spurs, had a bad series doesn't mean he can't play anywhere. The guy averaged 12 points on 40+% shooting from 3 all damn year 80+ fucking games.

Teams like the Cavs, Bobcats and Clippers could use still a player like him. Spurs just have to add quality assets like Blair and a pick to the package to lighten the pile of crap they get back in return, mainly due to his salary.

While that's true, most teams are going to look at his play since he's been here overall and in the playoffs and it's been not up to par for someone who averaged 22ppg a few seasons back. He is a good spot up 3 point shooter but who the fuck pays one 10 million a season??

The problem is that no one really wants Richard Jefferson. I honestly don't see a team in the league where he fills a need. Who needs a passive wingman who will mostly stand there and chuck 3s instead of using his athleticism to get to the rim? Every team has one of those already. :lol I know RJ can still get to the rim and throw it down, the problem is that he doesn't attack, he just stands in the corner.

And another thing is that he can really only be traded for another bad contract so trading RJ for someone else who is equally on a shitty contract like Turkoglu doesn't help. I thought putting Hill and Blair with him would net a decent player but Hill is gone and I don't think teams are as high on Blair as they were after his rookie season, his stock probably isn't that high so I doubt RJ + Blair is going to get us anyone noteworthy.

[5in10]

I'd be on board for Baron Davis if he accepted a 6th man role, came to camp in shape and had no complaints. Although I'm not too sure how long his contract is til and how much it's worth. He can be a solid defender/floor general if he wanted too.I also believe him and tp are pretty good friends.

[Silverheart80]

I'd be on board for Baron Davis if he accepted a 6th man role, came to camp in shape and had no complaints. Although I'm not too sure how long his contract is til and how much it's worth. He can be a solid defender/floor general if he wanted too.I also believe him and tp are pretty good friends.

Agreed.

BDavis' contract = 2 yrs at 14mil each. Horrible. But go look at RJ's salary this year at 8.4 mil. Add that to Dice's salary at 4.86 mil. Suddenly the math gets equal pretty quick. If Dice retires, that nets the Cavs cash savings. For the Spurs, BDavis isn't a long-term commitment....two years....that might be how much is left in the Big Three's window. Makes sense there...

And yeah, I do think Kawhi gets some PT early in the season and if he holds his own (shines on defense and doesn't turtle on offense), he'll be starting by the All-Star break, and deservedly so. I'm hoping Pop learned his lesson, post-Splitter. At least the Spurs won't be playing 4 on 5 anymore....except when Bonner's in the game....

I don't think BDavis is a savior but so far that's one of the few guys that I can see in RJ trade fantasies that might realistically help the Spurs return to contending position again.

[JonNOKC]

Some players that are on bad contracts, have worn out their welcomes, or both and could be the main piece in an RJ trade(I've left out the truly horrible contracts of Arenas, Lewis, and Davis):

ATL- Marvin Williams 4yrs/28M

CHA- Corey Maggette 2yrs/21M

DEN- Al Harrington 4yrs/28M (21M guaranteed)

DET- Richard Hamilton 2yrs/25M

GS- Andres Biedrins 3yrs/27M

NJ- Travis Outlaw 4yrs/28M

PHX- Josh Childress 4yrs/27M

The one thing I like about Davis is his contract is up in two years - which would fit in nice with the Spurs time table and I don't think you would have to do much other than attach Dice contract to the deal - and I think at this point in his career he knows he is a backup and would be thrilled to get out of CLE - Hamilton and Maggette would fit the mold of not taking back long term contract though Hamilton more of a SG

I think there are good FA targets for either position (PG of SF) and bottom line RJ was all but benched in a must win game for Spurs, not sure I wouldn't live with growing pains and a few losses to start Leonard from day 1 - of course a lockout shorten season would make that difficult to do.

Realistic potential FA: Dominic McGuire, R. Butler, McGrady, J. Moon, M. Daniels, J. Jefferies

Not as likely but still possible: T. Prince, S. Battier, M. Dunleavey, J. Kopono, J. Howard, G. Hill, and Kirilenko

I am sure I missed some and all the guys listed I am pretty sure are unrestricted FAs

[Big P]

The Clippers need a SF and might be dumb enough to take rj.

[NickiRasgo]

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Danny-Ferry.jpg

[Spurtacus]

Spurs get:
Anderson Varejao
Ramon Sessions
Daniel Gibson

Cavs get:
Richard Jefferson
DeJuan Blair
Antonio McDyess contract
2nd round pick

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5t6xtq2

Spurs get a starting center and excellent backup PG. Cavs instantly free up some cap room with McDyess and save by unloading Gibson. With RJ they get a SF, a scoring wing, and his contract is more friendly then Varejao's (3 years to 4). Even though RJ sucks for the Spurs he could be a #2 or #3 guy on a team like the Cavs. The only question mark is this trade leaves the Cavs without a center and a small frontline (Hickson, Jamison, Thompson, Blair). Spurs would have to flip Gibson to a third team; preferably for a cheap SF (maybe Donte Greene from Sac). We are still over the currently proposed cap; hopefully Duncan restructures to take a paycut.

Projected Spurs roster

C: Varejao, Splitter, FA
PF: Duncan, Bonner, FA
SF: Leonard, Butler, FA
SG: Manu, Neal, Anderson
PG: Parker, Sessions, Joseph

[TD 21]

Bobcats receive: Milicic, Tolliver

Cavaliers receive: Jefferson, McDyess, Blair, Spurs unprotected '13 1st round pick

Timberwolves receive: Varejao

Spurs receive: Thomas, Samuels

For the Bobcats, they slightly slash payroll short term and more than slightly long term and fill their need for a C.

For the Cavs, they fill their need at SF, get some financial relief, get a quality young asset (with Hickson and Thompson, they may not necessarily want Blair, but he can easily be flipped for a decent young wing) and take a flier on a pick that could be a high one, given the age of Duncan and Ginobili.

For the T-Wolves, they get the type of long, mobile defender they've coveted for some time (and a good chemistry guy, which is another supposed need) and "only" take on roughly $4 million in payroll annually to do so.

For the Spurs, they get about as close to a young McDyess as they can realistically attain (in terms of game, not temperament), slash payroll and continue with their stated goal of getting back to being one of the best defensive teams in the league. They also get a fifth big, who they supposedly liked going into the '10 draft.

[Muser]

The Cavs are in rebuilding mode, no way they would want any part of RJ and his shitty contract.

[JonNOKC]

Spurs get:
Anderson Varejao
Ramon Sessions
Daniel Gibson

Cavs get:
Richard Jefferson
DeJuan Blair
Antonio McDyess contract
2nd round pick

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=5t6xtq2

Spurs get a starting center and excellent backup PG. Cavs instantly free up some cap room with McDyess and save by unloading Gibson. With RJ they get a SF, a scoring wing, and his contract is more friendly then Varejao's (3 years to 4). Even though RJ sucks for the Spurs he could be a #2 or #3 guy on a team like the Cavs. The only question mark is this trade leaves the Cavs without a center and a small frontline (Hickson, Jamison, Thompson, Blair). Spurs would have to flip Gibson to a third team; preferably for a cheap SF (maybe Donte Greene from Sac). We are still over the currently proposed cap; hopefully Duncan restructures to take a paycut.

Projected Spurs roster

C: Varejao, Splitter, FA
PF: Duncan, Bonner, FA
SF: Leonard, Butler, FA
SG: Manu, Neal, Anderson
PG: Parker, Sessions, Joseph

I don't know if there is alot of reason for Cavs to do this unless they really like Blair alot - Varejoa isn't that bad of a contract by NBA standards and they don't have alot on the front line - at the end of the day there is really little reason for them to trade for RJ (Jamison, Thompson,and from what I have read they like Gee)

It would be nice to trade RJ and fill a couple needs on this team but realistically any team that takes on RJ is doing so to unload a contract just as bad and possibly worse than RJs or you are getting a player with baggage/issues

I think CLE (along with ATL, DET, CHA) are potential trade partners, but there aren't gonna be many options unless you throw in a TP and then you aren't gonna get fair return

I suggested the B. Davis trade not because I love Davis or would be that excited about the trade, but it was one of the few trades that makes some sense for both teams, doesn't require you to give up a young talent, and has potential to pay dividends for the Spurs

[Spurtacus]

The Cavs are in rebuilding mode, no way they would want any part of RJ and his shitty contract.

His contract is better then Varejao's and they need a SF more then a big. This is basically a player swap but the relief comes in with McDyess' contract and taking back the contracts of Sessions and Gibson.

[elemento]

Again

why would the Cavs trade the only guy capable to play C in their roster ? That does not make any sense. And they have so many PFs in their roster. They just got Thompson in the draft. They have Jamison, JJ Hickson and Samuels. Why would they want to add a 5th PF in their roster and let go the only guy that can play C for them ?

[Spurtacus]

Again

why would the Cavs trade the only guy capable to play C in their roster ? That does not make any sense. And they have so many PFs in their roster. They just got Thompson in the draft. They have Jamison, JJ Hickson and Samuels. Why would they want to add a 5th PF in their roster and let go the only guy that can play C for them ?

If Bonner/Blair play center for the Spurs I'm pretty sure Jamison/Hickson/Thompson can too. I did state in my post that the question mark is they are losing their true center; reading comprehension is your friend. :)

I've read Cleveland is looking to deal Varejao or Hickson. I doubt Hickson since he's cheap and had a nice year last season.

[TD 21]

The Cavs are in rebuilding mode, no way they would want any part of RJ and his shitty contract.

You don't get it. They have tons of cap space, an owner ready and willing to spend and a gaping hole at SF. It's not about them wanting Jefferson (because there's no reason for any team to), it's about making it worth their while for them to take him off the Spurs hands. Unlike a lot of teams, it wouldn't hamstring them financially.

The value for them in the trade I proposed is clear. They get a potential lottery pick down the road and a decent young asset that they could flip for, say, Rush, to upgrade the wing positions. McDyess gives them some immediate relief and while Jefferson makes more than Varejao annually, Varejao's contract is longer.

And say what you want about Jefferson, but he's still a clear upgrade over Gee/Eyenga at SF and the type of mature, professional veteran every young team needs. Plus, he's got a prior history with Scott.

[Nathan89]

You don't get it. They have tons of cap space, an owner ready and willing to spend and a gaping hole at SF. It's not about them wanting Jefferson (because there's no reason for any team to), it's about making it worth their while for them to take him off the Spurs hands. Unlike a lot of teams, it wouldn't hamstring them financially.

The value for them in the trade I proposed is clear. They get a potential lottery pick down the road and a decent young asset that they could flip for, say, Rush, to upgrade the wing positions. McDyess gives them some immediate relief and while Jefferson makes more than Varejao annually, Varejao's contract is longer.

And say what you want about Jefferson, but he's still a clear upgrade over Gee/Eyenga at SF and the type of mature, professional veteran every young team needs. Plus, he's got a prior history with Scott.


The contract length is the same because the last year on Varejao is a team option.

[Spurtacus]

RJ
2011: 9,282,000
2012: 10,164,000
2013: 11,046,000 *player option*

Varejao
2011: 7,700,000
2012: 8,400,000
2013: 9,100,000

Well, after looking at that I can see how my proposed trade doesn't make sense. Varejao's contract is actually better. I'm sure RJ will exercise that 11m option. Bah...oh well.

[TD 21]

The contract length is the same because the last year on Varejao is a team option.

I should have checked, instead of going by memory. Still, everything else I said holds true.

[Mel_13]

The value for them in the trade I proposed is clear. They get a potential lottery pick down the road and a decent young asset that they could flip for, say, Rush, to upgrade the wing positions. McDyess gives them some immediate relief and while Jefferson makes more than Varejao annually, Varejao's contract is longer.

Including Dice's contract in this proposed deal provides relief to the Spurs and adds payroll to the Cavs




And say what you want about Jefferson, but he's still a clear upgrade over Gee/Eyenga at SF and the type of mature, professional veteran every young team needs. Plus, he's got a prior history with Scott.

I'd like to believe that this notion of RJ to the Cavs has some legs. The points you make here provide some reasons to remain optimistic.

[elemento]

If Bonner/Blair play center for the Spurs I'm pretty sure Jamison/Hickson/Thompson can too. I did state in my post that the question mark is they are losing their true center; reading comprehension is your friend. :)

I've read Cleveland is looking to deal Varejao or Hickson. I doubt Hickson since he's cheap and had a nice year last season.

Yeah because the stupid mistake to play Bonner and Blair at the 5 should be followed by the Cavs in order to get the super stud Richard Jefferson and help the Spurs :lmao

Common sense is your friend :)

Hickson is cheaper, but next season will be his last in the rookie scale. And they would not draft Thompson if they believed Hickson is their future in the PF position. Still, if they trade Andy, they can get a better value than what you proposed.

:toast

[Spurtacus]

Yeah because the stupid mistake to play Bonner and Blair at the 5 should be followed by the Cavs in order to get the super stud Richard Jefferson and help the Spurs :lmao

Common sense is your friend :)

Hickson is cheaper, but next season will be his last in the rookie scale. And they would not draft Thompson if they believed Hickson is their future in the PF position. Still, if they trade Andy, they can get a better value than what you proposed.

:toast

It is a mistake to play Bonner/Blair but you missed my point. You can find centers out there shorter then 6'11. You seem to believe that because Varejao is 6'11/7 footer that he's their only center. I'm pretty sure Jamison & Hickson played center at some point last season since Varejao was out for a while.

:toast

[TD 21]

Including Dice's contract in this proposed deal provides relief to the Spurs and adds payroll to the Cavs





I'd like to believe that this notion of RJ to the Cavs has some legs. The points you make here provide some reasons to remain optimistic.

Alright, so I made the odd mistake by going off of memory. I forget exactly what McDyess is guaranteed, but I believe the Cavs would add roughly $4 to next season's payroll, which they can easily afford.

Nitpicking and technicalities aside, the base of it makes sense for all four teams involved.

[JonNOKC]

Again

why would the Cavs trade the only guy capable to play C in their roster ? That does not make any sense. And they have so many PFs in their roster. They just got Thompson in the draft. They have Jamison, JJ Hickson and Samuels. Why would they want to add a 5th PF in their roster and let go the only guy that can play C for them ?

I have to agree - I think the Cavs still like Varejao and why not (injury plague season he still avg 9pts,10rebs,52%FG) and when you take in account the position he plays and the fact he is 28 his contract isn't really a bad deal at all.

Also Jamison can play 3 or 4, and Thompson is going to get playing time as the Cavs aren't challenging for the playoffs.

I would love to turn RJ into T. Thomas but it isn't happening (although maybe it could sense MJ is fast becoming the next Isaiah Thomas)

Anyway if the Spurs could pull it off you are involving the right people in Kahn and MJ

[Mel_13]

Alright, so I made the odd mistake by going off of memory. I forget exactly what McDyess is guaranteed, but I believe the Cavs would add roughly $4 to next season's payroll, which they can easily afford.

Nitpicking and technicalities aside, the base of it makes sense for all four teams involved.

I wasn't nitpicking. I was addressing the logic for the trade which you defined:


It's not about them wanting Jefferson (because there's no reason for any team to), it's about making it worth their while for them to take him off the Spurs hands.

Ultimately, I don't see any team trading for RJ before June 30th. As you said, there's no reason for any team to want him and taking on that contract without knowing the details of the new CBA is extremely risky.

If Cleveland has any sort of interest in RJ, a deal like this will be available after the new CBA is signed.

Five more days to speculate, then all the trade proposals can be put on hold until we know the new rules.

[elemento]

It is a mistake to play Bonner/Blair but you missed my point. You can find centers out there shorter then 6'11. You seem to believe that because Varejao is 6'11/7 footer that he's their only center. I'm pretty sure Jamison & Hickson played center at some point last season since Varejao was out for a while.

:toast

Man i was not trying to bash your trade proposal. As a Spurs fan, i want a reasonable trade to get rid of Jefferson as much as you do.
I do get your point.

The problem here is: Would they consider play small-ball the whole season if they could trade Andy for a nice SF ? Of course they would. But they would never consider it if the pieces back are Jefferson and Blair. That's my point.

Blair does not make any sense for them because they are full of PFs. And there are many FA SFs this offseason that they could land without giving up Andy. Butler, Chandler, Green, Mbah a Moute, Prince, Battier ..just to name a few.

:toast

[Spurtacus]

Man i was not trying to bash your trade proposal. As a Spurs fan, i want a reasonable trade to get rid of Jefferson as much as you do.
I do get your point.

The problem here is: Would they consider play small-ball the whole season if they could trade Andy for a nice SF ? Of course they would. But they would never consider it if the pieces back are Jefferson and Blair. That's my point.

Blair does not make any sense for them because they are full of PFs. And there are many FA SFs this offseason that they could land without giving up Andy. Butler, Chandler, Green, Mbah a Moute, Prince, Battier ..just to name a few.

:toast

Blair was more of a throw in to offset a big loss. Instead of him and a 2nd rounder we could give up a protected 1st round pick. When I initially proposed my offer I thought Varejao's contract was better then RJ's...but because of RJ's player option and Varejao's team option they are not. Its still close to a wash if a trade was done 1 for 1 but I felt McDyess' contract in addition to taking the contracts of Sessions and Gibson would provide some relief to the Cavs.

[TD 21]

There's a bunch of variations and alterations that could be made -- such as the Spurs including Anderson and taking back Gibson -- but it's the general benefits that all four teams would reap that is the key.

If the Spurs took back Gibson though, forget about signing Battier. They'd probably have to go with Leonard, some veteran's minimum type like R. Butler and D. Butler/Green at SF. If they didn't take Gibson, they could sign Battier/Watson. It would leave them thin offensively (with the big three + Neal as the only true scorers), but they'd likely be much improved defensively and more balanced.

[Spurtacus]

There's a bunch of variations and alterations that could be made -- such as the Spurs including Anderson and taking back Gibson -- but it's the general benefits that all four teams would reap that is the key.

If the Spurs took back Gibson though, forget about signing Battier. They'd probably have to go with Leonard, some veteran's minimum type like R. Butler and D. Butler/Green at SF. If they didn't take Gibson, they could sign Battier/Watson. It would leave them thin offensively (with the big three + Neal as the only true scorers), but they'd likely be much improved defensively and more balanced.

Gibson would be flipped to a 3rd team for a cheap SF in my initial proposal. I can't imagine the Cavs want to pay 4 million to an undersized SG/backup PG especially since they have 3 PG right now. My initial proposal is a longshot now since Varejao contract is better than RJ.

[MaNu4Tres]

RJ
2011: 9,282,000
2012: 10,164,000
2013: 11,046,000 *player option*

Varejao
2011: 7,700,000
2012: 8,400,000
2013: 9,100,000

Well, after looking at that I can see how my proposed trade doesn't make sense. Varejao's contract is actually better. I'm sure RJ will exercise that 11m option. Bah...oh well.

You're missing a year. Varejao is due 9.95 million in 2014-- Which is the team option.

[Spurtacus]

You're missing a year. Varejao is due 9.95 million in 2014-- Which is the team option.

That's why I left it off. I was comparing Varejao to RJ.

[Nathan89]

Including Dice's contract in this proposed deal provides relief to the Spurs and adds payroll to the Cavs



I thought Dice would save another team money because he is retiring. Is that not the case???

[TD 21]

Gibson would be flipped to a 3rd team for a cheap SF in my initial proposal. I can't imagine the Cavs want to pay 4 million to an undersized SG/backup PG especially since they have 3 PG right now. My initial proposal is a longshot now since Varejao contract is better than RJ.

They probably do. He's by far the best shooter they have under contract, he's still young, coming off a solid season and I believe a fan favorite. They already lost James and in this trade, they'd be losing Varejao and when you consider how long it's likely to take for them to become respectable again, that could factor in. They may force Sessions on the Spurs, who's not a fit. The only way I could see the Spurs taking Sessions is if they flipped him for a cheap SF. The Spurs could do the same with Gibson, as well, or keep him and go with a veteran's minimum SF. Lots of options.

[Mel_13]

I thought Dice would save another team money because he is retiring. Is that not the case???

Dice will get 50% of his salary for the 2011-12 season, 2.6M if we get a full season.

The savings for another team come if his contract is used to allow 5M or so in salary to be traded from another team to the Spurs. That team then pays Dice his 2.6M and saves the difference.

In the particular example cited here, Dice's contract wasn't needed to make the trade numbers work and simply resulted in additional expense to the Cavs while the Spurs saved the 2.6M.

I think some people believe that Dice's contract magically saves money for the acquiring team. They only save money by sending a more costly contract(s) back to the Spurs in return.

Two things about Dice's contract:

1. Unless the Spurs and Dice reach an agreement to change the terms in his contract, he must be cut by June 30th to save the 2.6M.

2. In most any trade of Dice's contract, the Spurs will add several million dollars to their 2011-12 payroll. Given that they already well above the salary cap for next season (and the luxury tax if it continues to exist in the new CBA), it's entirely possible that the Spurs choose to let the contract lapse.

[Nathan89]

Dice will get 50% of his salary for the 2011-12 season, 2.6M if we get a full season.

The savings for another team come if his contract is used to allow 5M or so in salary to be traded from another team to the Spurs. That team then pays Dice his 2.6M and saves the difference.

In the particular example cited here, Dice's contract wasn't needed to make the trade numbers work and simply resulted in additional expense to the Cavs while the Spurs saved the 2.6M.

I think some people believe that Dice's contract magically saves money for the acquiring team. They only save money by sending a more costly contract(s) back to the Spurs in return.

Two things about Dice's contract:

1. Unless the Spurs and Dice reach an agreement to change the terms in his contract, he must be cut by June 30th to save the 2.6M.

2. In most any trade of Dice's contract, the Spurs will add several million dollars to their 2011-12 payroll. Given that they already well above the salary cap for next season (and the luxury tax if it continues to exist in the new CBA), it's entirely possible that the Spurs choose to let the contract lapse.

Thanks, I wasn't completely aware of the trade scenario they were talking about. I just assumed that they had the contract of Dice cover with other players. However the fact that another team is going to have to pay Dice 2.6m is bad news to me. I was thinking that another team was going to get to save 5mil and that might be able to make a deal go through.

I guess were going to be stuck with RJ:depressed

[kobyz]

so you think RJ + McDyess for Baron Davis is good trade for us?? i quite sure Cleavland will do it as they will get more cap room for the next two season to sign free agents, will open the door for Irving and improve their no existent SF position...

[GSH]

You guys do know that Cleveland has a $14.5M trade exception? That means that they could take a player (or players) making up to $14.5M, without sending anything back. The only way they are taking Jefferson is if they also get a player or pick that they really want. I knew they were looking for another pick in this draft, and thought they might take Jefferson's contract, if we threw in our pick. But since that didn't happen, any chance of a deal is probably dead. They are going to have lots of opportunities, and they are really looking to try and get Iguodala with their exception.

They might take our first pick in next year's draft. But it's going to be a much deeper draft, and that would be a hell of a price to get rid of RJ.

I said it before - the last time we made a deal to dump a contract, it cost us Scola. And to get rid of RJ's contract, they would have to give up another desirable piece. The Spurs aren't going to take any deal like that to dump RJ's contract. And nobody else is going out of their way to come and take him off the Spurs' hands. If you see a deal involving RJ, you'll know that the team has gone into full-scall rebuild mode. So get used to it - he's not going anywhere. He's going to be on the team next year, unless the new CBA has another amnesty provision. It's not that RJ has zero value. He's just worth a lot less than his contract. That means we're stuck with him.

I don't care what salaries you pull up on the trade machine. It's not gonna happen.

[Silver&Black]

We'll get rid of RJ as soon as this happens
l
l
V

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/ericsavitz/files/2011/03/hell-freezes-over.jpg

[TD 21]

You guys do know that Cleveland has a $14.5M trade exception? That means that they could take a player (or players) making up to $14.5M, without sending anything back. The only way they are taking Jefferson is if they also get a player or pick that they really want. I knew they were looking for another pick in this draft, and thought they might take Jefferson's contract, if we threw in our pick. But since that didn't happen, any chance of a deal is probably dead. They are going to have lots of opportunities, and they are really looking to try and get Iguodala.

They might take our first pick in next year's draft. But it's going to be a much deeper draft, and that would be a hell of a price to get rid of RJ.

It's worth it. It is going to be a much deeper draft, but the Spurs will likely be picking in the 20s again. There's too many benefits to this to worry about a 20 something pick, when the Spurs already have quantity of young talent. If they pulled this off, they'd have: Thomas, Leonard, Splitter, Neal, Joseph, Butler and possibly Gibson, all between 19-26.

[JonNOKC]

Personally I wouldn't trade Anderson especially not until I get to see him for another year - living in Oklahoma i watch him live several times as well as on TV and I think he could be a very good player - and of course 4 team deals are that much tougher to swing

The other thing is while Pop was definitely not happy with Blair 2nd half of last year it is still hard to gauge exactly what the Spurs think of him - some things I hear seems to point on them giving Blair one more chance and some seem to point to them actively looking to move him.

It will be very interesting to see the front court rotation for next season

[GSH]

It's worth it.


LOL... it's like a girl saying "I wouldn't date you unless you were the last man on Earth", and the guy responding, "So there's a chance?"

NO. The Cavs aren't going to take RJ's $9.3M salary in exchange for our raggedy-ass draft pick next year. Even if it would be worth it to us, they will be able to do better with that trade exception elsewhere. I shouldn't even have mentioned the pick. No. Just no.

The Cavs' best big was Varejao, and he had injury problems. They don't want McDyess' contract. They want a big man who isn't going to retire, and who can give them some solid minutes. We don't have one of those laying around. We need them - they don't need us.

[TD 21]

LOL... it's like a girl saying "I wouldn't date you unless you were the last man on Earth", and the guy responding, "So there's a chance?"

NO. The Cavs aren't going to take RJ's $9.3M salary in exchange for our raggedy-ass draft pick next year. Even if it would be worth it to us, they will be able to do better with that trade exception elsewhere. I shouldn't even have mentioned the pick. No. Just no.

The Cavs' best big was Varejao, and he had injury problems. They don't want McDyess' contract. They want a big man who isn't going to retire, and who can give them some solid minutes. We don't have one of those laying around. We need them - they don't need us.

Worth it for the Spurs, genius. You know they won't take Jefferson for a fact? My proposal had the '13 pick. Duncan may be retired by then and even if he isn't, he'll further decline and Ginobili will likely decline further. That could potentially be a lottery pick.

They don't "need" the Spurs, but they could get some quality young assets for doing the Spurs a favor. Just like the Davis trade. I'll revise it: take out McDyess, insert Anderson and Gibson. I like Anderson and like Hill, would hate to see him go, but I wouldn't allow him to be a deal breaker.

[sefant77]

No team touch this shitty contract with the new CBA incoming without dumping back shit to SA.

RJ - Maggette

Thats your way to get rid of RJ

[spurs1990]

This some strange stuff.

Look up albatross in the dictionary and RJ's picture will be right below.

[sefant77]

You're missing a year. Varejao is due 9.95 million in 2014-- Which is the team option.

He is missing the point that 28y old 6-10 great defender Varejao has even with this contract trade VALUE.

RJ has absolut NEGATIVE trade value.

The Spurs not even have enough talent/picks to make a swap worthy.

[Thompson]

If they feel confident enough in Leonard, Anderson and Butler, they could try to trade him for Biedrins maybe; their contracts are about the same, and Jefferson might do better in Golden States' offense.

[Russo21]

but golden state have dorrell wright who is a fantastc young SF. I doubt they waste time swapping RJ for Biedrins when Dorrell is there unfortunately.

[Thompson]

but golden state have dorrell wright who is a fantastc young SF. I doubt they waste time swapping RJ for Biedrins when Dorrell is there unfortunately.

That and they drafted Klay Thompson. Yeah, we're stuck with RJ.

Is there a rule against a team signing a player only to trade him to another team? I'm pretty sure there is, otherwise it would be nice if we could get the Cavaliers to sign Tyson Chandler or someone to a contract with the understanding that he'd come to us for RJ and draft picks or something.

[mavsfan1000]

The only way to get rid of RJ is by abstinence. :lol

[Russo21]

very true my friend. id trade RJ for any of those average players with average contracts just to see RJ out of here


Some players that are on bad contracts, have worn out their welcomes, or both and could be the main piece in an RJ trade(I've left out the truly horrible contracts of Arenas, Lewis, and Davis):

ATL- Marvin Williams 4yrs/28M- Taller, younger, longer, more defensive ptotential then RJ, career 12 pts 5 reb 1 block 31% 3PFG i'd do that yep

CHA- Corey Maggette 2yrs/21M- We wanted him a few years back and got Roger Mason Jnr instead. Not to different from RJ but he's not RJ. so id do that to

DEN- Al Harrington 4yrs/28M (21M guaranteed) dunno

DET- Richard Hamilton 2yrs/25M Good for 14 points, good shooting % and good defence, championship tested. I'd take his contracts over RJ's to (4 million a year more then RJ but not for as many years)

GS- Andres Biedrins 3yrs/27M they already have a very good young SF so they wouldnt deal him for RJ

NJ- Travis Outlaw 4yrs/28M -9 PTS 4 REB taller and longer then RJ,maybe more defensive potential. Only slightly less $ then RJ but for one extra year, so no.

PHX- Josh Childress 4yrs/27M childress sucks so no. But hes not RJ so maybe lol.

[Mel_13]

That and they drafted Klay Thompson. Yeah, we're stuck with RJ.

Is there a rule against a team signing a player only to trade him to another team? I'm pretty sure there is, otherwise it would be nice if we could get the Cavaliers to sign Tyson Chandler or someone to a contract with the understanding that he'd come to us for RJ and draft picks or something.

Yes.

79. Can a free agent be signed and immediately traded?

Under no circumstances can a team sign and then trade another team's free agent. But there is a rule that allows teams to re-sign their own free agents for trading purposes, called the sign-and-trade rule. Under the sign-and-trade rule, the player is re-signed and immediately traded to another team. This is done by adding a clause to the contract which stipulates that the contract is invalid if the player's rights are not traded to the specific team within 48 hours.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q79