Why won't God heal amputees?

[vy65]

Sorry, I must have missed the memo that appointed you the Arbitor of Worthwhile Conversations on Spurstalk Political Forums. If you could please forward that to me as soon as possible, I would appreciate it.

As for substantive, it is what it is. I was hoping for someone a bit more erudite and competant than Darrin to take up the gauntlet. If it is less than substantive, blame him. Phenomanul did/does a lot better.

I harbor no illusions that starting a converstation about ethics and the nature of morals or religion on a basketball forum will yeild anything grand. One can hope. Some of the people that post here are worth talking to.

As for "making me feel better": meh. Take your usual angry/bitter/jealous/whatever bullshit and stuff it. For someone whose general tenor is that of a judgmental asshole, you have little room to criticize, IMO.

Why you so mad bro? I thought we was tite?

lol arbiter

[vy65]

Srs question: are you an amputee and you're mad because you're missing a leg?

[DarrinS]

Somebody's getting angwee. Lol "competant". Lol "judgmental asshole" -- oh, the irony.

[RandomGuy]

Someone's awfully sensitive.

Not really. I was/am baiting him.

Tenysha is a pretty smart guy, with an good, incisive mind. He is good at calling me out on some of my bullshit, not unlike vy when he gets past his "high horse" BS. He and I may not like/agree with each other but I can respect him for that.

[RandomGuy]

Srs question: are you an amputee and you're mad because you're missing a leg?

Nope, and nope.

[RandomGuy]

Somebody's getting angwee. Lol "competant". Lol "judgmental asshole" -- oh, the irony.

Indeed. I can be a judgmental asshole too. Guilty as charged, and yes, I misspell competent, among others often. Arbiter not so often. Probably a synaptic cross with arbitrator, I would guess.

[vy65]

Nope, and nope.

Arm?

[vy65]

You're wrong RG:

http://www.standingwithhope.com/

[101A]

This thread has convinced me.

Atheism has become its own religion.

You people all think alike, make the same arguments, use the same sarcasm, etc.....

Nothing special; except in your own minds. Most self righteous bunch of bigots I've seen gathered in one place since I stumbled into a group of Klansmen eating lunch at a cafeteria in Madisonville, Tx 20 years ago.

Y'all continue with your (virtual) circle jerk. Highly informative.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The free market or God is not going to get this done but these guys have the best shot going right now.

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/research/npp/index.htm


Neural Interfaces Program

Kip Ludwig, Ph.D.
Program Director, Extramural Research Program
[email protected]

Naomi Kleitman, Ph.D.
Program Director, Extramural Research Program
[email protected]

Daofen Chen, Ph.D.
Program Director, Extramural Research Program
[email protected]

James Gnadt, Ph.D.
Program Director, Extramural Research Program
[email protected]

What are neural prosthetics and neural interfaces?
Neural interfaces are systems operating at the intersection of the nervous system and an internal or external device. Neural interfaces include neural prosthetics, which are artificial extensions to the body that restore or supplement function of the nervous system lost during disease or injury, and implantable neural stimulators that provide therapy. Neural interfaces are used to allow disabled individuals the ability to control their own bodies and lead fuller and more productive lives.

Who are the NINDS Program Directors with interests in neural interfaces and what do they do?
In brief, NINDS Program Directors are expected to provide scientific leadership for the field. In this capacity, they identify unmet research needs and gaps in knowledge, develop new initiatives for funding, collaborate with other federal agencies, manage projects that have milestones and deliverables, and organize workshops, conferences, and symposia (learn more). Interest in neural interfaces is a shared interest among the scientists in the NINDS Program Staff:

Dr. Kip Ludwig: neural engineering with emphases in neuromodulation, brain-computer interface (BCI) devices, neural interface technology.
Dr. Naomi Kleitman: strategies for treating spinal cord injury and peripheral nerve injuries.
Dr. Daofen Chen: cortical and spinal sensorimotor integration, and neural rehabilitation.
Dr. James Gnadt: experimental and computational systems control and circuit-level experimental neurophysiology.

Has research in neural interfaces and development of neural prosthetics benefited patients?
Neural interfaces have already provided substantive benefits to individuals. For example, the NIH had a key role in the development of the cochlear implants, which bypasses damaged hair cells in the auditory system by direct electrical stimulation of the auditory nerve. In addition, neural interfaces that allow deep brain stimulation have been useful for some patients in reducing the motor symptoms associated with Parkinson's disease.

What other diseases are targeted for neural prosthetic applications?
Clearly, individuals living with certain movement disorders and some classes of deafness have been positively impacted by neural interfaces. Of particular interest to the NINDS is future progress in the field of neural interfaces that will result in assistive technologies to improve the quality of life by restoring motor and communicative functions for individuals with spinal cord injuries, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, and stroke.

How does the NINDS support neural interfaces?
For over 30 years, the NINDS has supported grants and contracts on a number of areas within the neural interfaces field including, but not limited to: functional neuromuscular stimulation, deep brain stimulation, multielectrode cuffs for nerve interfaces, cortical microelectrode arrays, biocompatibility of neural interfaces, implantable neural stimulators, and brain/computer interfaces.

Research in neural interfaces at the NIH began with the initiation of the Neural Prosthesis Program, which was funded primarily through contracts. However, the program now makes use of both grant and contract mechanisms to enable the field to progress. This transition from contracts to grants has been facilitated by the increasingly wide-spread recognition of the importance of non-hypothesis driven research to the biomedical research enterprise. Potential investigators are encouraged to explore the use of the program announcements listed below to support research and development efforts. As the field has matured, neural interfaces have become part of a larger trans-NIH effort involving multiple Institutes and Centers including, but not limited to NINDS, NIDCD, NICHD, and NIBIB.

Should I contact NINDS or NIBIB about my ideas for a neural interfaces grant?
The area of neural interfaces resides in multiple institutes and the extramural community should recognize that the NIH staff who share interests in this area regularly interact. However, there have been many questions from the extramural community relative to the interests of NINDS and NIBIB concerning neural interfaces. If the proposed work involves development of novel technologies and methods that are broadly applicable across multiple disease and organ areas, which may include the nervous system, or involves proof-of-principle of a widely applicable technology, the investigator should first consider NIBIB. For basic, translational, or clinical research for technologies that target the nervous system or treatment of neurological disorders, investigators should first consider NINDS. NINDS is also interested in the use, optimization, or validation of novel/existing technologies for applications related to neurological disorders. If an investigator has questions about a specific application, he/she can contact program staff at the NINDS for clarification.

What research is currently envisioned for neural interfaces?
Among the goals of the NINDS effort is the development of totally implantable systems for restoring the motor control and sensory feedback for a paralyzed individual. Significant progress is being made towards the development of motor prostheses for disabled individuals, particularly for upper limb control. It is anticipated that future efforts will combine subsystems for functional neuromuscular stimulation with neural interfaces that can detect signals in the brain associated with movement, such as implanted microelectrode arrays in the motor cortex. Potential emergent areas that are likely to impact the future of neural interfaces include nanotechnologies, novel bioactive materials, adaptive computational methods for multi-neuron analysis, and technologies that go beyond electrical stimulation of the nervous system to allow controlled inhibition.

Mind actuated sensory feedback prosthesis is an obtainable goal I think. It also goes hand in hand with understanding the mechanism of the brain. I think once we really are able to reduce the brain chemistry and behavior specifically we will begin to answer definitively notions like the soul and free will. Perhaps if there is another agent supernatural or whatever it may be acting on us we can find it there as well.

I put my faith there and not in some notion that something I can never understand does something I do not understand and am supposed to thank them for it. Just seems silly and an excuse to allow yourself to be led around by the nose.

Oh and I am going to guess that the controllers they use include a mux or two so WC and Bell labs must have invented this stuff too.

[baseline bum]

:lmao coming up with bullshit like "tests of character" to make an excuse for when god fucks someone over

DoK wins the thread with this post. :lol

[mouse]

I just want someone like BigZak to come in and describe his direct conversations with God.

Highly educated people like BigSnack and myself avoid these threads since 98% of you have little brains and can't comprehend deep intelligent conversations.

Look at the the man gets run off the air for exposing lies in the textbooks topic.

All those kids (LGrrrr /Red Zero /Halberto posting outdated school yard insults instead of engaging in adult style debating.

It's kinda like trying to build a model house out of lifesavers in a day care. They want to be part of the project and are really just there to help fuck things up.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/9.jpg

[redzero]

:lol you of all people calling anybody immature.

"Hey guys, look at this hilarious pic I photoshopped! What, you don't find it funny? I'll just keep posting it until you do!"

Replace "I photoshopped" with "of me being an idiot."

[Drachen]

This thread has convinced me.

Atheism has become its own religion.

You people all think alike, make the same arguments, use the same sarcasm, etc.....

Nothing special; except in your own minds. Most self righteous bunch of bigots I've seen gathered in one place since I stumbled into a group of Klansmen eating lunch at a cafeteria in Madisonville, Tx 20 years ago.

Y'all continue with your (virtual) circle jerk. Highly informative.

Eh, there are good and bad representatives of all groups. Don't push your way into my life, and I will respond with the same courtesy. I will be quite honest, I find myself defending the idea of religion more than I do the idea of atheism (probably, because I don't want to be identified with hypocrites). And yes, I think militant athiesm is just as bad as militant christianity. What it really boils down to is that religion/lack thereof SHOULD be a personal issue, but it is unfortunately not and the more one encroaches upon the other, the more you can expect lashing out from both sides.

[baseline bum]

Eh, there are good and bad representatives of all groups. Don't push your way into my life, and I will respond with the same courtesy. I will be quite honest, I find myself defending the idea of religion more than I do the idea of atheism (probably, because I don't want to be identified with hypocrites). And yes, I think militant athiesm is just as bad as militant christianity. What it really boils down to is that religion/lack thereof SHOULD be a personal issue, but it is unfortunately not and the more one encroaches upon the other, the more you can expect lashing out from both sides.

What exactly is militant atheism?

[Drachen]

Same thing as militant christianity, angry, intrusive, rude. Pretty much the exact same person with a different belief structure.

(I am not sure if you are questioning the literalness of my comment, but if you are, the use of the word militant is not meant to conjure up images of some athiest loading up his pickup with artillery rounds, various firearms and explosives, and then looking at nothing in particular to say "NOTHING BLESS ME", then riding off into a church)

[cantthinkofanything]

What exactly is militant atheism?

Google that shit.

[baseline bum]

Same thing as militant christianity, angry, intrusive, rude. Pretty much the exact same person with a different belief structure.

Is Flying Spaghetti militant atheism?

[Drachen]

Is Flying Spaghetti militant atheism?

Obviously not, FSM is a religion, and therefore not atheistic.

LOL

I think that initially FSM was created to try to put a problem into a different perspectives for that (assumedly) athiest's (or at least pro-evolutionary's) opponents. I feel like it has been used, though, as a tactic of militant atheism.

Have you really never met someone who was a real asshole about his/her athiesm? Someone who is arrogant, tactless, and pretty much a bully. Or, as I said before, a carbon copy of those particular Christians that they purport to hate while exhibiting the exact same behaviors of the same.

[Blake]

This thread has convinced me.

Atheism has become its own religion.

You people all think alike, make the same arguments, use the same sarcasm, etc.....

Nothing special; except in your own minds. Most self righteous bunch of bigots I've seen gathered in one place since I stumbled into a group of Klansmen eating lunch at a cafeteria in Madisonville, Tx 20 years ago.

Y'all continue with your (virtual) circle jerk. Highly informative.

you are as huge a righteous jackass as anyone here.

lol bigots.

[LnGrrrR]

This thread has convinced me.

Atheism has become its own religion.

You people all think alike, make the same arguments, use the same sarcasm, etc.....

Nothing special; except in your own minds. Most self righteous bunch of bigots I've seen gathered in one place since I stumbled into a group of Klansmen eating lunch at a cafeteria in Madisonville, Tx 20 years ago.

Y'all continue with your (virtual) circle jerk. Highly informative.

We use the arguments because they're valid. We don't really need new ones. If there was a flat-earther on the boards, we'd keep using the same arguments against him/her.

Religion requires some sort of belief structure, usually a shared culture, etc etc. Can you point out any of these things regarding atheism?

[baseline bum]

I think that initially FSM was created to try to put a problem into a different perspectives for that (assumedly) athiest's (or at least pro-evolutionary's) opponents. I feel like it has been used, though, as a tactic of militant atheism.


I think it was necessarily offensive from the beginning, and is almost always taken as such from believers. People are going to get offended and call it rude when someone makes a logically equivalent argument that leads to such an obviously asinine conclusion in the pastafarian religion. It was put out to get laughs at the expense of Christian fundamentalists.



Have you really never met someone who was a real asshole about his/her athiesm? Someone who is arrogant, tactless, and pretty much a bully. Or, as I said before, a carbon copy of those particular Christians that they purport to hate while exhibiting the exact same behaviors of the same.

No, though most people I know are either Christians, Jews, or Muslims with an occasional deist thrown in the mix. I hate the idea that atheists need to show some kind of respect for religion so as to not step on anyone's toes. I'm sure I qualify under the militant label for calling the bible's god a sociopath, but I would have long since gotten the needle for doing the work of Jehovah.

[mingus]

lol 11 pages and still no proof God doesn't exist. It's fucking funny seeing people who think they know everything not be able to give you an answer, so I'm not complaining.

[DMX7]

lol 11 pages and still no proof God doesn't exist. It's fucking funny seeing people who think they know everything not be able to give you an answer, so I'm not complaining.

lol trying to prove a negative.

You're supposed to make your conclusion (e.g., that God does exist) based on evidence (that he exists), not the other way around.

Do you believe that we live in "The Matrix" just because there's no proof that we don't?

[Blake]

lol 11 pages and still no proof God doesn't exist.

lol you still don't get how the flying spaghetti monster works


It's fucking funny seeing people who think they know everything not be able to give you an answer, so I'm not complaining.

it's fucking sad when people that believe in an imaginary god try to force their imaginary god's moral code system down the rest of society's throats.

[mingus]

It's faith, I'm not making blanket statements about Gods existence. It's scary though how emotional and riled up Athiests can get that they dupe themselves into thinking they know the answer when they don't.

[Drachen]

I think it was necessarily offensive from the beginning, and is almost always taken as such from believers. People are going to get offended and call it rude when someone makes a logically equivalent argument that leads to such an obviously asinine conclusion in the pastafarian religion. It was put out to get laughs at the expense of Christian fundamentalists.


You and I disagree here. Was it funny? Hell yes, but I think it served to provide a little perspective too. I won't deny that this perspective was probably lost on its intended audience, but I don't think it was meant to be hurtful (originally).





No, though most people I know are either Christians, Jews, or Muslims with an occasional deist thrown in the mix. I hate the idea that atheists need to show some kind of respect for religion so as to not step on anyone's toes. I'm sure I qualify under the militant label for calling the bible's god a sociopath, but I would have long since gotten the needle for doing the work of Jehovah.

I don't think atheists in particular need to show some kind of respect for religion either. I think that each should show respect for the other (like I said, don't force your shit on me, and you can expect the same courtesy from me).

Let me ask you. If Christians didn't stick their nose into your life (legislatively, or otherwise), would you still go around trying to point out all of their faults the way that you do?

[mingus]

lol you still don't get how the flying spaghetti monster works



it's fucking sad when people that believe in an imaginary god try to force their imaginary god's moral code system down the rest of society's throats.

What kind of system of logic are u using to where you don't need evidence to make blanket statements?

[baseline bum]

Calling an imagined god imaginary is a blanket statement?

[vy65]

It's faith, I'm not making blanket statements about Gods existence. It's scary though how emotional and riled up Athiests can get that they dupe themselves into thinking they know the answer when they don't.

If it's faith then you shouldn't be caught up with making "arguments" or using "logic."

[baseline bum]

Let me ask you. If Christians didn't stick their nose into your life (legislatively, or otherwise), would you still go around trying to point out all of their faults the way that you do?

I'd still say the bible's god was a sociopath if you asked me. That's pretty independent of the actions of his followers.

[Drachen]

I'd still say the bible's god was a sociopath if you asked me. That's pretty independent of the actions of his followers.

Ok, you would still believe it, would you go around intruding into their lives to tell them so? How stupid they are for believing such things?

[baseline bum]

Ok, you would still believe it, would you go around intruding into their lives to tell them so? How stupid they are for believing such things?

No; big difference between stupid and delusional.

[Drachen]

Ok, so you are saying that you would leave them completely alone on that subject. Am I right?

[baseline bum]

Ok, so you are saying that you would leave them completely alone on that subject. Am I right?

I'm kind of confused what you mean here. If we're discussing god on a political message board, then no, I wouldn't censor.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If it's faith then you shouldn't be caught up with making "arguments" or using "logic."

That just sounds like a copout to me. Descartes and Kant at least had some balls and tried to find logically the existence of God. Now its regressed to this point where it doesn't stand up under scrutiny so its 'personal.'

As long as people understand that they only believe it because they want to believe it then i have no issue. God taking direct perceivable action is where justifiable belief will come from. Most people ever get is 'don't test God' or other condescending nonsense directives.

I have tried to talk to God my entire life and the refrain is boiled down to 'if you really want me to do something or not do something you had better tell me directly because all of these people trying to insinuate they are your proxies are full of shit. i will continue to do the best that i can otherwise.' Probably pointless talking to myself but i figure it best to cover myself because i could be wrong.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Highly educated people like BigSnack and myself avoid these threads since 98% of you have little brains and can't comprehend deep intelligent conversations.

Look at the the man gets run off the air for exposing lies in the textbooks topic.

All those kids (LGrrrr /Red Zero /Halberto posting outdated school yard insults instead of engaging in adult style debating.

It's kinda like trying to build a model house out of lifesavers in a day care. They want to be part of the project and are really just there to help fuck things up.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/9.jpg

Mouse, we really need to get you some furniture.

[Drachen]

I'm kind of confused what you mean here. If we're discussing god on a political message board, then no, I wouldn't censor.

Do you go out and actively seek to tell Christians/Jews/Muslims/Hindus/Zoroastrianists/people who believe in the Zodiac that they are delusional, or do you generally do it in response to their attacks, etc.

[vy65]

That just sounds like a copout to me. Descartes and Kant at least had some balls and tried to find logically the existence of God. Now its regressed to this point where it doesn't stand up under scrutiny so its 'personal.'

Why?

[Blake]

Mouse, we really need to get you some furniture.

God is testing him

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why?

Why did DesCartes and Kant base their belief in blind faith? Becaues they believed that God actually manifested in reality and went looking for it? i would imagine that it was a personal ethic to not just accept mindless mysticism.

Introspection is a good thing. Justify what you think.

[vy65]

Why did DesCartes and Kant base their belief in blind faith? Becaues they believed that God actually manifested in reality and went looking for it? i would imagine that it was a personal ethic to not just accept mindless mysticism.

Introspection is a good thing. Justify what you think.

No. Why do you have to (attempt to) rationalize God's existence if you don't wanna cop out and be a coward?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No. Why do you have to (attempt to) rationalize God's existence if you don't wanna cop out and be a coward?

Why avoid the introspection? I think the reverse question is more important. Why do people that put so much stock into faith feel afraid of introspection? I see a bunch of people that would rather lie to themselves to feel better than seek the truth. The truth no matter how repugnant is the truth.

[vy65]

Why avoid the introspection? I think the reverse question is more important. Why do people that put so much stock into faith feel afraid of introspection? I see a bunch of people that would rather lie to themselves to feel better than seek the truth. The truth no matter how repugnant is the truth.

Having proofs for God's existence isn't the same thing as introspection. I think a lot of Christian's are introspective. That doesn't mean it's rational - but faith isn't rational.

It seems like your definition of introspection is having a logic/rationality for a particular belief. Why's it have to be that way? And why is it cowardice to not have a reason for your beliefs?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Having proofs for God's existence isn't the same thing as introspection. I think a lot of Christian's are introspective. That doesn't mean it's rational - but faith isn't rational.

It seems like your definition of introspection is having a logic/rationality for a particular belief. Why's it have to be that way? And why is it cowardice to not have a reason for your beliefs?

So faith is irrational?

[vy65]

So faith is irrational?

Absolutely. Well, to me it is. But I don't have a problem with it's irrationality.

[Borat Sagyidev]

Absolutely. Well, to me it is. But I don't have a problem with it's irrationality.


This is exactly why Asia is gaining on this country so fast. Their children are learning science and medicine to a very high degree and then see Americans making 3 times they do while being a complete dimwit. I doubt it stays that way for long

Irrationality is a recipe for failure in all aspects.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Absolutely. Well, to me it is. But I don't have a problem with it's irrationality.

And thus me saying its a copout.

"I know it doesn't make any sense but I am going to believe it anyway." I don't like lying to myself.

[vy65]

And thus me saying its a copout.

"I know it doesn't make any sense but I am going to believe it anyway." I don't like lying to myself.

You've basically defined faith.

I still don't see why it's a copout. Not everything is or is supposed to be rational. For example: try talking to a woman.

[DarrinS]

This is exactly why Asia is gaining on this country so fast. Their children are learning science and medicine to a very high degree and then see Americans making 3 times they do while being a complete dimwit. I doubt it stays that way for long

Irrationality is a recipe for failure in all aspects.

Well, our public schools are run by secular leftists. Coincidence?

[Blake]

Well, our public schools are run by secular leftists. Coincidence?

Correlation? :lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lol mouse saying other people have little brains

maybe if I had a brain as big as mouse's my life would end up nowhere and I'd be a security guard in my 40s!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lol 11 pages and still no proof God doesn't exist.
lol 12 pages and still no proof the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist

[LnGrrrR]

Well, our public schools are run by secular leftists. Coincidence?

Really? Could you provide the data showing that a majority of our teachers/school administrators are secular leftists?

[redzero]

lol mingus trying to call anybody else illogical when his only reason for not believing in Zeus over God is faith

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Faith is the reason why I believe in the flying spaghetti monster over god

[redzero]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a far more tasteful and fulfilling choice.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Agreed tbh

Plus the flying spaghetti monster doesn't do weird stuff like make people amputees to test their faith. All he does is provide delicious meals :tu

[ElNono]

but faith isn't rational.

I agree with this, IMO. That said, there's nothing stopping people from being irrational.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

There's nothing irrational about a monster made of spaghetti who flies.

If you think there is, prove he doesn't exist :madrun

[mingus]

lol 12 pages and still no proof the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist

believing that every person has a soul that was given to him by God = flying spaghetti monster? is therefore everything that to our knowledge doesn't exist in fact = spaghetti monster?

[ElNono]

13 pages and you still can't prove he doesn't exist... :sleep

It's funny to see FML fanbois that think they have all the answers get all worked up about it though

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

believing that every person has a soul that was given to him by God = flying spaghetti monster? is therefore everything that to our knowledge doesn't exist in fact = spaghetti monster?
Huh? I'm just going by your logic.

Your argument to validate god is, "Well, show me proof that god doesn't exist!" I'm trying to valuate my higher power, the flying spaghetti monster, by showing that there's no proof the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist.

You worship your god, I'll worship my flying spaghetti monster

[ElNono]

believing that every person has a soul that was given to him by the Flying Spaghetti Monster = god? is therefore everything that to our knowledge doesn't exist in fact = god?

[mingus]

lol mingus trying to call anybody else illogical when his only reason for not believing in Zeus over God is faith

lol assumming you know what my concept of God is/what specific religion i adhere to.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

believing that every person has a soul that was given to him by the Flying Spaghetti Monster = god? is therefore everything that to our knowledge doesn't exist in fact = god?
:lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I actually have proof of the flying spaghetti monster with the mythical picture.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6e/Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg/330px-Touched_by_His_Noodly_Appendage.jpg

[mingus]

Huh? I'm just going by your logic.

Your argument to validate god is, "Well, show me proof that god doesn't exist!" I'm trying to valuate my higher power, the flying spaghetti monster, by showing that there's no proof the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist.

You worship your god, I'll worship my flying spaghetti monster

does believing in a flying spaghetti monster actually help you out in anyway or is just a rhetorical tool that you're using? people believe in God for personal reasons, which is why i don't udnerstand why people here have to be such condescending pricks about it.

[redzero]

believing that every person has a soul that was given to him by God = flying spaghetti monster? is therefore everything that to our knowledge doesn't exist in fact = spaghetti monster?

Belief in any supernatural being that has zero evidence for its existence is right up there with belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, regardless of how sincere said belief is.

[ElNono]

does believing in a god actually help you out in anyway or is just a rhetorical tool that you're using? people believe in the flying spaghetti monster for personal reasons, which is why i don't udnerstand why people here have to be such condescending pricks about it.

[mingus]

believing that every person has a soul that was given to him by the Flying Spaghetti Monster = god? is therefore everything that to our knowledge doesn't exist in fact = god?

you're still saying that anything that cant be proven is flying spaghetti monster. the jury is still out on whether God exists or not. i don't have the answer. apparently u guys do though.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

does believing in a flying spaghetti monster actually help you out in anyway or is just a rhetorical tool that you're using? people believe in God for personal reasons, which is why i don't udnerstand why people here have to be such condescending pricks about it.
Well, seeing that believing in god leads to him doing things like causing you to lose an arm/leg in an effort to "test your character", I'd say believing in the flying spaghetti monster does more for you than believing in god.

[redzero]

lol assumming you know what my concept of God is/what specific religion i adhere to.

lol you for lol'ing me for making assumptions when you twice accused me of asserting that God doesn't exist, even though I did no such thing in this thread

Which religion do you adhere to? Let's just get this out of the way. Do you believe in the Abrahamic God?

[ElNono]

you're still saying that anything that cant be proven is flying spaghetti monster. the jury is still out on whether God exists or not. i don't have the answer. apparently u guys do though.

you're still saying that anything that cant be proven is god. the jury is still out on whether the flying spaghetti monster exists or not. i don't have the answer. apparently u do though.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

the jury is still out on whether God exists or not.
the jury is still out on whether the flying spaghetti monster exists or not

[ElNono]

point being, the flying spaghetti monster is as "real" as god. you need as much faith to believe in either, so they can be used interchangeably without a problem.

[ElNono]

Well, seeing that believing in god leads to him doing things like causing you to lose an arm/leg in an effort to "test your character", I'd say believing in the flying spaghetti monster does more for you than believing in god.

How do you know the flying spaghetti monster doesn't have "tests of character"? I mean, it ain't healing amputees either, so he's probably an asshole too.

[ElNono]

That said, I probably need to consult the flying spaghetti monster scriptures to see if he has any healing powers...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is why Olive Garden offers the never ending pasta bowl

[baseline bum]

Sun-worship is the only religion that really makes sense. For one, the sun exists. For two, it provides life. For three, lol @ the thought of punk-ass Jehovah sending a flood against nuclear power.

[redzero]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster promises His followers stripper factories and beer volcanoes once they get to heaven. The choice is clear.

[mingus]

whatever. i like believing in God, okay? as long as i'm not hurting anyone i shouldn't have to take the sort of criticism i'm getting. i can tell you that if i didn't believe in God i probably wouldn't be alive right now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

If I didn't believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, I would have never known how good spaghetti and meatballs tasted.

[redzero]

If 19 people didn't believe in God, 3000 people would be alive right now.

[mingus]

If 19 people didn't believe in God, 3000 people would be alive right now.

if Martin Luther King wasn't a Babtist, you'd probably own a slave. we can play this stupid game all day.

[ElNono]

whatever. i like believing in God, okay? as long as i'm not hurting anyone i shouldn't have to take the sort of criticism i'm getting. i can tell you that if i didn't believe in God i probably wouldn't be alive right now.

You're free to believe in whatever you want. AFAIK, nobody was mocking YOU for what you believe in. That doesn't mean the same courtesy needs to be extended to your deity.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I didn't know Martin Luther King freed the slaves.

[ElNono]

Abraham Lincoln is rolling on his grave right now...

[mingus]

i don't believe in a particular God, just a higher purpose. something beyond the material. is that really worth mocking? am i really a fool for believing that?

don't bother answering. i'm done with this thread. in fact i'm done with all religiously-related threads. you guys are a lynch mob. a religion of your own.

[mingus]

my bad you'd still have segregation. dont know what i was thinking lmao

[ElNono]

Anyways, surprised nobody brought up the "we all descend from aliens" angle...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

We Are

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_o_E5_ihEjRQ/TJO4dAoV3MI/AAAAAAAAAF4/QPOluwyMIsY/s1600/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster.jpg

THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!

[redzero]

my bad you'd still have segregation. dont know what i was thinking lmao

Lyndon Baines Johnson would take offense to that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You've basically defined faith.

I still don't see why it's a copout. Not everything is or is supposed to be rational. For example: try talking to a woman.

There is blind faith and then there is trust.

[Blake]

i don't believe in a particular God, just a higher purpose. something beyond the material.

no particular God?

where did you get your random purpose from?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

if Martin Luther King wasn't a Babtist, you'd probably own a slave. we can play this stupid game all day.

i do not know if i necessarily agree with that. the brand of Christianity taught to slaves was all about being humble because you are a wretch that deserves your fate. Who is to say that a similar leader would not have arisen out of a different culture other than the slave morality.

[AFBlue]

Agreed tbh

Plus the flying spaghetti monster doesn't do weird stuff like make people amputees to test their faith. All he does is provide delicious meals :tu

Actually the reason given for a flawed earth is that the flying spaghetti monster drank heavily before he created it. So there was causation.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm surprised this thread is so popular.

[Wild Cobra]

Has anyone else ever wondered if Jesus had a twin brother?

[Wild Cobra]

If 19 people didn't believe in God, 3000 people would be alive right now.
Will you show me the part in the Qur'an that allows them to do what they did please.

[AFBlue]

I get the mockery of my "test of character" argument, but as a believer in an omnipotent God it's a logical deduction. You can choose to believe everything is random or that everything happens for a reason. I choose reason.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

There's nothing logical about a God who is supposed to over see and take care of humans but amputates their limbs in order to test their character. It's your prerogative to believe it, but it's not logical.

[AFBlue]

There's nothing logical about a God who is supposed to over see and take care of humans but amputates their limbs in order to test their character. It's your prerogative to believe it, but it's not logical.

I could either believe it happens for a greater purpose or I could believe it's vengeful (i.e. they did something wrong). I choose the former.

[silverblk mystix]

There's nothing logical about a God who is supposed to over see and take care of humans but amputates their limbs in order to test their character. It's your prerogative to believe it, but it's not logical.

Agree with your point of it being logical or not...


On the other hand...why do you presume to think or know that any god would use logic?

Why do humans think they can use logic to explain god when no one even knows who or what god is. Why would you try to apply logic to something unknowable?


The people who are certain that god exists...are pretty blind.

The people here who are certain that god DOES NOT exist and are ridiculing those who do...are pretty blind also.

[vy65]

Will you show me the part in the Qur'an that allows them to do what they did please.


]fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you...[2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.


...whoever flies in Allah's way [forsakes his home to fight in Jihad], he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Apostle, and then death overtakes him [in Jihad], his reward is indeed with Allah...[4.101] Rodwell: And when ye go forth to war in the land, it shall be no crime in you to cut short your prayers, if ye fear lest the infidels come upon you; Verily, the infidels are your undoubted enemies! [4.102]...let them take their arms...let them take their precautions and their arms...there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms...[4.103] Khalifa: Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat) are decreed for the believers at specific times.[4.104]...be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy...


...fight the leaders of unbelief...[9.13] What! will you not fight a people...[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.

[Blake]

The people here who are certain that god DOES NOT exist and are ridiculing those who do...are pretty blind also.

What are you looking at the these blind people aren't?

[mingus]

Are you blind because you think that there's an afterlife that gives meaning to your actions life? Really? Hey if that works out for you, more power to you. If you don't need God, more power to you. For me, and for a lot of people, faith in God is important. If that pisses you off, too bad. Move to Holland.

[clambake]

i thought you were done with this thread.

[mingus]

Principle got shit on by boredom.

[RandomGuy]

I could either believe it happens for a greater purpose or I could believe it's vengeful (i.e. they did something wrong). I choose the former.

Not sure I buy the argument that torture or unpleasant things happening to children happen for a "purpose".

If so, it would seem that purpose is, well, evil.

[clambake]

Not sure I buy the argument that torture or unpleasant things happening to children happen for a "purpose".

If so, it would seem that purpose is, well, evil.

no no, thats satan's work. but god is much more powerful than satan, so...god doesn't give a shit.

[NASpurs]

:lol why do people try to personify God? If God is infinite and has always been, why do people who don't believe in Him try to personify Him? I know it's to relate and compare Him to ourselves but I just don't get it. I guess it's a way to better understand something that we can't comprehend if He's truly limitless.

Shit happens and I don't know if shit happens for a reason but it happens.

[clambake]

any shit that happens is a test. lol

[NASpurs]

any shit that happens is a test. lol

Whether or not you believe in God, shit happening to you is always a test in your life. It's what makes or breaks us and it's what makes people choose or not choose to follow God

[mingus]

Not sure I buy the argument that torture or unpleasant things happening to children happen for a "purpose".

If so, it would seem that purpose is, well, evil.

Torture and unpleasant things happened to children by Jerry Sandusky. Would those things have happened to children if he feared the eternal wrath of God for those actions?

[redzero]

:lol why do people try to personify God? If God is infinite and has always been, why do people who don't believe in Him try to personify Him? I know it's to relate and compare Him to ourselves but I just don't get it. I guess it's a way to better understand something that we can't comprehend if He's truly limitless.

Shit happens and I don't know if shit happens for a reason but it happens.

Believers personify God as well. That's a major part of religion.

[clambake]

Whether or not you believe in God, shit happening to you is always a test in your life. It's what makes or breaks us and it's what makes people choose or not choose to follow God

yep, thats how the church sucks you in.

[clambake]

Would those things have happened to children if he feared the eternal wrath of God for those actions?

yes

[baseline bum]

Not sure I buy the argument that torture or unpleasant things happening to children happen for a "purpose".

If so, it would seem that purpose is, well, evil.

God knew it was the only way to get Paterno's old ass the fuck out tbh. 10 young boys' assholes is a small price to pay when you step back and look at the big picture.

[mingus]

yes

Would he have raped those boys if those boys each had 20 foot alligators next to them?

[clambake]

Would he have raped those boys if those boys each had 20 foot alligators next to them?

pretty sure he didn't deliberately take this boys to the everglades.

one could rationalize that god gave him the urge.

[mingus]

pretty sure he didn't deliberately take this boys to the everglades.

one could rationalize that god gave him the urge.

You dodged the question. No sincerely God fearing person would rape anybody. God didn't make him like that. The man turned away from God on his own. And he should've feared him. if godlessness wasn't so popular it wouldn't have happened. But keep teach people you don't need fear. Just don't get mad when shit like this happens. Sandusky actions are just a product of a godless world you love so much

[baseline bum]

Look, god works in psychotic and inefficient ways.

[clambake]

You dodged the question. No sincerely God fearing person would rape anybody. God didn't make him like that. The man turned away from God on his own. And he should've feared him. if godlessness wasn't so popular it wouldn't have happened. But keep teach people you don't need fear. Just don't get mad when shut like this happens.

mental

[mingus]

You haven't answered the question.

[clambake]

haven't ever seen one of gods protective alligators.

[mingus]

Lol still dodging.

[baseline bum]

You dodged the question. No sincerely God fearing person would rape anybody. God didn't make him like that. The man turned away from God on his own. And he should've feared him. if godlessness wasn't so popular it wouldn't have happened. But keep teach people you don't need fear. Just don't get mad when shit like this happens. Sandusky actions are just a product of a godless world you love so much

Gotta love when the No True Scotsman argument comes in. :lol

[clambake]

its your strawman.

[mingus]

You'd have told Sandusky he had no God to fear before he molested each one of those kids wouldn't you?

[clambake]

You'd have told Sandusky he had no God to fear before he molested each one of those kids wouldn't you?

how would that have come up "before"?

[mingus]

Really going to go around the question like that. Answer it. You woulda told him he had nothing to fear if you couldn't stop him yourself.

[clambake]

check your head.

[mingus]

Lol

[mouse]

lol mouse saying other people have little brains

maybe if I had a brain as big as mouse's my life would end up nowhere and I'd be a security guard in my 40s!

^ Perfect example of small mind aka (little brain) Attacking someone's job instead of staying on topic.

How can being retired from the army and doing what I like be called going no where?

Who said I wanted to be a proctologist like your father?

To bad your limited train of thought doesn't allow you to know 40 year old people are sought after as the perfect age to do security.

They don't spend all night playing God of war or text'ng a girlfriend. They actually spend time doing they're jobs.

Also many people my age are ex military or law enforcement they are bored can use extra cash. I do it cause its one of the few jobs that you can listen to music watch tv and eat while getting paid 900.00 dollars every two weeks.

Don't be hating on a person for being smart enough to work the system.

And feel free to post your job tittle or your schooling and lets compare check stubs before you put your foot even deeper in your ass.

ps: for future reference it's security officer not guard, and I also work for an An Armored Transportation service.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/mouse-patrol-censored.jpg

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

^ Perfect example of small mind aka (little brain) Attacking someone's job instead of staying on topic.

How can being retired from the army and doing what I like be called going no where?

Who said I wanted to be a proctologist like your father?

To bad your limited train of thought doesn't allow you to know 40 year old people are sought after as the perfect age to do security.

They don't spend all night playing God of war or text'ng a girlfriend. They actually spend time doing they're jobs.

Also many people my age are ex military or law enforcement they are bored can use extra cash. I do it cause its one of the few jobs that you can listen to music watch tv and eat while getting paid 900.00 dollars every two weeks.

Don't be hating on a person for being smart enough to work the system.

And feel free to post your job tittle or your schooling and lets compare check stubs before you put your foot even deeper in your ass.

ps: for future reference it's security officer not guard, and I also work for an An Armored Transportation service.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/mouse-patrol-censored.jpg
rofl that wasn't a defensive response at all

I figured your big brain would be able to get more than $500 a week

[silverblk mystix]

You dodged the question. No sincerely God fearing person would rape anybody. God didn't make him like that. The man turned away from God on his own. And he should've feared him. if godlessness wasn't so popular it wouldn't have happened. But keep teach people you don't need fear. Just don't get mad when shit like this happens. Sandusky actions are just a product of a godless world you love so much

I will give an opinion here...

It seems to me that your belief in God...in the way YOU understand God...are also the very things that are keeping you blind to what God really is or could be...

your logic above shows this...weren't the catholic priests who abused and continue to abuse children....God fearing people? These were the perfect example of god fearing people and look at what they did.

You are taking a leap...an assumption...that only people who don't fear your idea of God don't do evil things...

but evil can be done by anyone...god fearing or not.

If someone refrains from doing evil because of a fear of a punishment...then these people are truly asleep and it is not they they are in a state of love...it is that they are fearful of punishment...and this is what is driving them. This does not make them any more "holy" than people who DON'T believe in your God and who choose to NOT commit evil.

[redzero]

Yeah, you're a bum in your 50's who works as a security guard. You also have a limited grasp of the English language.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Are you blind because you think that there's an afterlife that gives meaning to your actions life? Really? Hey if that works out for you, more power to you. If you don't need God, more power to you. For me, and for a lot of people, faith in God is important. If that pisses you off, too bad. Move to Holland.

Separation of church and state is an American ideal. Perhaps you need to take your happy ass to the Netherlands. My family fought for Washington, Grant, and Bradley.

you need to fuck off.

I have no problem with you believing nonsense. Thats your business but you try converting others to nonsense or most especially use st as an excuse to dictate policy and you are going to hear it and hear it loud.

[clambake]

I will give an opinion here...

It seems to me that your belief in God...in the way YOU understand God...are also the very things that are keeping you blind to what God really is or could be...

your logic above shows this...weren't the catholic priests who abused and continue to abuse children....God fearing people? These were the perfect example of god fearing people and look at what they did.

You are taking a leap...an assumption...that only people who don't fear your idea of God don't do evil things...

but evil can be done by anyone...god fearing or not.

If someone refrains from doing evil because of a fear of a punishment...then these people are truly asleep and it is not they they are in a state of love...it is that they are fearful of punishment...and this is what is driving them. This does not make them any more "holy" than people who DON'T believe in your God and who choose to NOT commit evil.

you got it all wrong. you were supposed to ask those priests about god "before" they raped those children. lol

[LnGrrrR]

They don't spend all night playing God of war or text'ng a girlfriend.

Or having any sort of life, apparently.


And feel free to post your job tittle or your schooling and lets compare check stubs before you put your foot even deeper in your ass.

Most people can probably compare w/ $1800 a month.


ps: for future reference it's security officer not guard, and I also work for an An Armored Transportation service.

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/mouse-patrol-censored.jpg

Honestly, congratulations for doing a job you love. I can't fault anyone for that. You may argue like a senile donkey, but at least you've found an employer willing to overlook that. :)

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tbh anyone who needs religion to tell them not to commit murder is a pretty shitty person to begin with.

[RandomGuy]

Torture and unpleasant things happened to children by Jerry Sandusky. Would those things have happened to children if he feared the eternal wrath of God for those actions?

I don't know. The problem with that questions is twofold: that humans aren't the only thing killing children, and some people will rationalize all sorts of nasty things because they think God has set them on a mission, and condones their behavior.

Ten million children die of simple diarrehea every year.

Does all this death serve some purpose too?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You dodged the question. No sincerely God fearing person would rape anybody. God didn't make him like that. The man turned away from God on his own. And he should've feared him. if godlessness wasn't so popular it wouldn't have happened. But keep teach people you don't need fear. Just don't get mad when shit like this happens. Sandusky actions are just a product of a godless world you love so much

So essentially when you do anything good or good things happen to you, you need to thank god. When you fuck up and do antisocial shit then its all on you?

Seems like an attitude you see in prison trustees and slaves put in charge of other slaves.

[RandomGuy]

you got it all wrong. you were supposed to ask those priests about god "before" they raped those children. lol

Good example.
Go to confession, and get those sins expunged = molesters go to heaven?

If they thought they could confess and not worry about God's judgment, then what? (seriously doubt that a disfunctional mind would worry about it anyways, which also points to another thing about a creator's "purpose")

[mingus]

I will give an opinion here...

It seems to me that your belief in God...in the way YOU understand God...are also the very things that are keeping you blind to what God really is or could be...

your logic above shows this...weren't the catholic priests who abused and continue to abuse children....God fearing people? These were the perfect example of god fearing people and look at what they did.

You are taking a leap...an assumption...that only people who don't fear your idea of God don't do evil things...

but evil can be done by anyone...god fearing or not.

If someone refrains from doing evil because of a fear of a punishment...then these people are truly asleep and it is not they they are in a state of love...it is that they are fearful of punishment...and this is what is driving them. This does not make them any more "holy" than people who DON'T believe in your God and who choose to NOT commit evil.

Those preists didn't believe in God. They lost faith, assumming they ever had any...and labels don't mean anything.

And of course athiests can be good peopl. Half of my friends are either agnostic or athiest.

And ideally things should be done in a state of love, and out of principle. But principles are easy to lose track of. In cases like Sandusky's he had a sick urge to molest teenage boys. Other people are sick in that they have addictions, to alcohol for example. Other people want to commit suicide. These are people who know right from wrong but go on being destructive because they don't have fear of God. I believe putting yourself on the pathway to fearing God is in itself something done out of love, if it leads to helping other people (in Sandusky's case the teenage boys).

[RandomGuy]

Absolutely. Well, to me it is. But I don't have a problem with it's irrationality.

I do.

Irrational faith simply sets the stage for all other manner of irrational behavior, quite a bit of which is outright evil/immoral.

Not that everybody with faith is evil/immoral, but I think it simply opens the door to a lot of that, simply because of the way the human brain works, i.e. rationalizing.

[clambake]

lol comparing a suicidal or drunk to sandusky.

[RandomGuy]

Eh, there are good and bad representatives of all groups. Don't push your way into my life, and I will respond with the same courtesy. I will be quite honest, I find myself defending the idea of religion more than I do the idea of atheism (probably, because I don't want to be identified with hypocrites). And yes, I think militant athiesm is just as bad as militant christianity. What it really boils down to is that religion/lack thereof SHOULD be a personal issue, but it is unfortunately not and the more one encroaches upon the other, the more you can expect lashing out from both sides.

I would agree.

No small number of atheists are rather militant about it, which is ironic considering the types of criticisms aimed at evangelicals, and zealots of various religious stripes.

[silverblk mystix]

Those preists didn't believe in God. They lost faith, assumming they ever had any...and labels don't mean anything.

And of course athiests can be good peopl. Half of my friends are either agnostic or athiest.

And ideally things should be done in a state of love, and out of principle. But principles are easy to lose track of. In cases like Sandusky's he had a sick urge to molest teenage boys. Other people are sick in that they have addictions, to alcohol for example. Other people want to commit suicide. These are people who know right from wrong but go on being destructive because they don't have fear of God. I believe putting yourself on the pathway to fearing God is in itself something done out of love, if it leads to helping other people (in Sandusky's case the teenage boys).


I got news for you....

There is something to examine if you are convinced that God needs to be feared.

Fear is the opposite of love...most will tell you that hate is the opposite...but this is incorrect. Hate comes from fear-once you find the root causes of hate...it is always stemming from fear. Fear of something being taken away from you or fear of not getting what you desire.

We always hate what we fear...so if you want to fear god--or your understanding-- of god...then you have lost your way...this fear of a god is very counter-productive.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't know any "militant atheists" who want laws made in this country advocating atheism and restricting the practice of Christianity.

I do know of millions of "militant Christians" who want laws made in this country that force non-Christians and non-believers to live by Christian values.

Because of that, I don't think "militant atheism" is as dangerous as "militant Christianity".

[mingus]

lol comparing a suicidal or drunk to sandusky.

They're clearly on different levels of bad/evil. Apparently you didn't understand my point. I'll pray for you that you do.

[NASpurs]

I thought indifference was the opposite of love.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They're clearly on different levels of bad/evil. Apparently you didn't understand my point. I'll pray for you that you do.

Your point is circular self logic that the priest class has put forth to absolve their God and by extension their institutions from blame.

If you sin then its all you. if you do good then its all God and we want a piece.

[mingus]

I don't know any "militant atheists" who want laws made in this country advocating atheism and restricting the practice of Christianity.

I do know of millions of "militant Christians" who want laws made in this country that force non-Christians and non-believers to live by Christian values.

Because of that, I don't think "militant atheism" is as dangerous as "militant Christianity".

Hitler, Stallin.

You're out of your mind if you think atheism hasnt produced it's fair share of Evil in this world.

[clambake]

They're clearly on different levels of bad/evil. Apparently you didn't understand my point.
not even close to the same.

I'll pray for you that you do.

lets hear it.

[mouse]

Or having any sort of life, apparently.


At least i don't spend my life stalking someone on a message board.





Most people can probably compare w/ $1800 a month.

Most people? Dude what country do you live in? pssssst! this isn't 1998 anymore? N1ggas with 4 years of college are lucky to be working at Wall mart these days.


Also keep in mind I didn't post what the army pays me each month.


you may want to factor that in next time you audit me.




Honestly, congratulations for doing a job you love.

If you call playing on a laptop while eating KFC a job then thank you :toast



I can't fault anyone for that. You may argue like a senile donkey, but at least you've found an employer willing to overlook that. :)


Give it time I am sure you will come up with some fresh security officer insults when we meet in another topic. Watch Dead Zero's next post and learn from a pro!



http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/RTM-322/777-2.jpg

[redzero]

I'll pray for you that you do.

Prayer: How to do nothing and still think you’re helping

[clambake]

i thought you said they look for people that don't play on laptops?

[mingus]

Your point is circular self logic that the priest class has put forth to absolve their God and by extension their institutions from blame.

If you sin then its all you. if you do good then its all God and we want a piece.

I actually don't believe God can make us do good. I don't believe he can make us to bad either. We have free will to do whatever we wish. He has laid out the path toward good and evil and we choose which path we take.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you blind because you think that there's an afterlife that gives meaning to your actions life? Really? Hey if that works out for you, more power to you. If you don't need God, more power to you. For me, and for a lot of people, faith in God is important. If that pisses you off, too bad. Move to Holland.Atheists piss you off, and they aren't moving.

Where are you going to move?

[clambake]

I actually don't believe God can make us do good. I don't believe he can make us to bad either. We have free will to do whatever we wish. He creates the path toward good and evil and we choose which path we take.

and he just sits back to watch.

what a perv

[LnGrrrR]

you may want to factor that in next time you audit me.

Didn't realize you spent 20 in. Thanks for that. :toast


Give it time I am sure you will come up with some fresh security officer insults when we meet in another topic. Watch Dead Zero's next post and learn from a pro!

I'll do my best!

[mingus]

Prayer: How to do nothing and still think you’re helping

I don't pray. It was a joke. Quit being an uptight Athiest.

[ChumpDumper]

Those preists didn't believe in God. They lost faith, assumming they ever had any...and labels don't mean anything.So if you commit any sin, you don't believe in God.

Nice reasoning.

[clambake]

I don't pray. It was a joke. Quit being an uptight Athiest.

you said you'd pray for me. is lying acceptable to your god?

[vy65]

I do.

Irrational faith simply sets the stage for all other manner of irrational behavior, quite a bit of which is outright evil/immoral.

Not that everybody with faith is evil/immoral, but I think it simply opens the door to a lot of that, simply because of the way the human brain works, i.e. rationalizing.

Your problem isn't with faith per se, but with the human use of it. Has bad shit been done in the name of religion? Absolutely. But you can say the same thing of science - i.e. the whole eugenics movement.

People suck. Religion and Science give them excuses to suck. Doesn't mean something is wrong with Religion or Science. Just that something is wrong with people.

[ChumpDumper]

you said you'd pray for me. is lying acceptable to your god?mingus doesn't believe in God now. He just lost his faith.

I hope you're happy.

[clambake]

mingus doesn't believe in God now. He just lost his faith.

I hope you're happy.

:lmao

[mingus]

Atheists piss you off, and they aren't moving.

Where are you going to move?

Athiests don't piss me off. People who take every post I make literally and not with a grain of salt do however. Sorry I offended you.

[redzero]

At least i don't spend my life stalking someone on a message board.






Most people? Dude what country do you live in? pssssst! this isn't 1998 anymore? N1ggas with 4 years of college are lucky to be working at Wall mart these days.


Also keep in mind I didn't post what the army pays me each month.


you may want to factor that in next time you audit me.





If you call playing on a laptop while eating KFC a job then thank you :toast





Give it time I am sure you will come up with some fresh security officer insults when we meet in another topic. Watch Dead Zero's next post and learn from a pro!



http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/RTM-322/777-2.jpg

"Dead Zero" isn't a half bad name. I'll remember that for the account I create.

Thanks, bum.

[mouse]

i thought you said they look for people that don't play on laptops?



They do.

I never said they find them.

Try to keep up brah.


http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/RTM-322/vlcsnap-2011-08-05-16h57m09s241.png

[ChumpDumper]

Athiests don't piss me off.There is clear evidence against that.
People who take every post I make literally and not with a grain of salt do however. Sorry I offended you.So you're being deceptive.

Someone should pray for your faith to be restored.

[mingus]

So if you commit any sin, you don't believe in God.

Nice reasoning.

As always, you never can quite understand what I'm saying. I'll pray for you. I'll pray and athiest prayer for you.

[redzero]

Mingus is just using the No True Scotsman fallacy, like somebody mentioned before.

[clambake]

As always, you never can quite understand what I'm saying. I'll pray for you. I'll pray and athiest prayer for you.

lets hear it.

[ChumpDumper]

As always, you never can quite understand what I'm saying. I'll pray for you. I'll pray and athiest prayer for you.Is there a certain class of sin whose commission automatically signals a loss of faith?

Let us know what they are.

[baseline bum]

LOL Hitler the atheist crusader. Just keep repeating the lie over and over again and it becomes truth only because of the passage of time.

[mingus]

Have you ever prayed for pussy, chump?

[ChumpDumper]

Have you ever prayed for pussy, chump?Have you ever tried to change the subject in such a lame manner, mingus?

[mouse]

"Dead Zero" isn't a half bad name. I'll remember that

Thanks,.



it wont matter.....After tonight you will be known as HeadZero.


http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p55/RackTheMouse/trash12/bulg.gif

[redzero]

Shut up, Narutoluva. You just keep doing what you do best: pretending to be black on the internet.

[redzero]

it wont matter.....After tonight you will be known as HeadZero.

Oh look, another unfunny shoop. Thanks.

[mingus]

Have you ever tried to change the subject in such a lame manner, mingus?

It was rhetorical question. I know you've prayed for pussy.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

As always, you never can quite understand what I'm saying. I'll pray for you. I'll pray and athiest prayer for you.

We understand exactly what you are saying. You just do not acknowledge the logical extensions. You said they had turned away from God by sinning. You link the two in a self serving manner with zero evidence to back it up.

Its generic pulpit speech at US churches. Its not like its some new thought process.

[mouse]

I know you've prayed for pussy.

He did and redzero showed up.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I actually don't believe God can make us do good. I don't believe he can make us to bad either. We have free will to do whatever we wish. He has laid out the path toward good and evil and we choose which path we take.

Copout.

Where does God get involved? Just when he decides whether or not you deserve to be in pain for eternity or not?

[mouse]

You send your mother my way. I'll show her how black I am.

Can't his mother just take redzero's word for it?

[mingus]

lets hear it.

The hymn is called "The Big Bang" I don't feel like typing it out. I'll sing "Im a Pro-creationist" after that.

[redzero]

Think just a little bit and the answer should be obvious.

Kumagawa came back from death and said "Maybe it was a miracle from a girl's kiss."

Now, think back to the last time Kumagawa died and how he obtained bookmaker. http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/ofc5ra1.png

Please, take this crap somewhere else.

[mingus]

He did and redzero showed up.

Why's he saying prayer doesn't work then?

[ChumpDumper]

It was rhetorical question. I know you've prayed for pussy.It was an incredibly lame ad hominem you threw out there as you ran away from a direct question.

I never prayed for pussy; you should pray to God to help you not be such a pussy.

[mouse]

Why's he saying prayer doesn't work then?




If prayers worked no one would die from Cancer.

The Spurs would win every game.

Redzero would have a nude photo of me.

[mingus]

I've laid out what I believe pretty clearly already.

[redzero]

Ouch, mouse, the zingers are too much.

[clambake]

I've laid out what I believe pretty clearly already.

yes, you lied about praying for me. you, sir, are no shepherd.

[ChumpDumper]

I've laid out what I believe pretty clearly already.Yes, then you immediately discarded your faith according to your belief.

[redzero]

lol "headzero"
lol still showing your face around this site after being exposed
lol thinking you can criticize anybody else when you're a 29-year-old Naruto and WWE fan

[redzero]

Hey, Im not the fairytale worshiper here's..lol.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[Blake]

You dodged the question. No sincerely God fearing person would rape anybody. God didn't make him like that. The man turned away from God on his own. And he should've feared him. if godlessness wasn't so popular it wouldn't have happened. But keep teach people you don't need fear. Just don't get mad when shit like this happens. Sandusky actions are just a product of a godless world you love so much

if you dont believe in a particular God, then where are you getting this notion that Sandusky needed to fear this God?

[Blake]

Torture and unpleasant things happened to children by Jerry Sandusky. Would those things have happened to children if he feared the eternal wrath of God for those actions?

in the Christian religion, raping of children is irrelevant to eternal life so fear of God's eternal wrath really is no motivator for any true Christian.

[Blake]

We always hate what we fear...

I fear grizzly bears, but I don't hate them.

[AFBlue]

Agree with your point of it being logical or not...


On the other hand...why do you presume to think or know that any god would use logic?

Why do humans think they can use logic to explain god when no one even knows who or what god is. Why would you try to apply logic to something unknowable?


The people who are certain that god exists...are pretty blind.

The people here who are certain that god DOES NOT exist and are ridiculing those who do...are pretty blind also.

I said I used logic based on my belief that God is omnipotent to come to the conclusion that God has a plan and those seemingly horrible things are a part of that plan for some reason. Not that God was susceptible to human logic.

And I wouldn't say that I was "blind" or have blind faith. I perceive that God touches our lives almost daily and has a hand in our path. I see the miracle of existence of life and choose to believe it's not randomness. These perceptions aren't proof, but they aren't without merit. To call me blind means there's not reason to believe in something beyond random coincidence.

[cantthinkofanything]

I said I used logic based on my belief that God is omnipotent to come to the conclusion that God has a plan and those seemingly horrible things are a part of that plan for some reason. Not that God was susceptible to human logic.

And I wouldn't say that I was "blind" or have blind faith. I perceive that God touches our lives almost daily and has a hand in our path. I see the miracle of existence of life and choose to believe it's not randomness. These perceptions aren't proof, but they aren't without merit. To call me blind means there's not reason to believe in something beyond random coincidence.

If by God, you mean the machine that was put in place at the beginning of time and set everything on its predetermined path, then yes, I agree that God touches our lives every second of the day. And it also jibes with everything nothing being coincidental.

[Blake]

I said I used logic based on my belief that God is omnipotent to come to the conclusion that God has a plan and those seemingly horrible things are a part of that plan for some reason. Not that God was susceptible to human logic.

And I wouldn't say that I was "blind" or have blind faith. I perceive that God touches our lives almost daily and has a hand in our path. I see the miracle of existence of life and choose to believe it's not randomness. These perceptions aren't proof, but they aren't without merit. To call me blind means there's not reason to believe in something beyond random coincidence.


If by God, you mean the machine that was put in place at the beginning of time and set everything on its predetermined path, then yes, I agree that God touches our lives every second of the day. And it also jibes with everything nothing being coincidental.



If God has a plan for you, does that mean you really have free will?

[mouse]

I must say Chump has been waxing mingus's ass in this topic.

WjU5LZu6btE

[AFBlue]

Not sure I buy the argument that torture or unpleasant things happening to children happen for a "purpose".

If so, it would seem that purpose is, well, evil.

Seemingly. I'd like to defend God by giving hypotheticals about how that terrible experience effects positive change in that person's life down the road or in the lives of others...but I don't know God's plan.

Do I wish my twin sister had not died six weeks after we were born? Absolutely. But, do I know that it would have changed my life, the life of my parents and siblings? Absolutely. I can't tell you definitively why God chose that path for her, but I do believe it happened for a reason.

[AFBlue]

If by God, you mean the machine that was put in place at the beginning of time and set everything on its predetermined path, then yes, I agree that God touches our lives every second of the day. And it also jibes with everything nothing being coincidental.

Machine put in place by who?

[vy65]

mg3m8wRVXWg&feature=related

1:18 tbh

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Seemingly. I'd like to defend God by giving hypotheticals about how that terrible experience effects positive change in that person's life down the road or in the lives of others...but I don't know God's plan.

Do I wish my twin sister had not died six weeks after we were born? Absolutely. But, do I know that it would have changed my life, the life of my parents and siblings? Absolutely. I can't tell you definitively why God chose that path for her, but I do believe it happened for a reason.

Do you acknowledge that it may just be that its just much more comforting to think that there is some grand scheme for such a tragedy like that versus the notion that its just a random event?

[mingus]

Do you acknowledge that it may just be that its just much more comforting to think that there is some grand scheme for such a tragedy like that versus the notion that its just a random event?

I know you're asking him, but of course that goes through my mind. Never said I knew anything. Just faith that shit happens for a reason. Principle without God in tough times (I'm talking really excutiatingly tough times) isn't enough for a lot of people. Faith in a grander plan is necessary. Some of us aren't so fortunate to not need God's "help." call it a cop out or whatever you want to call it but until you've walked in my shoes I think it's pretty dumb.

[silverblk mystix]

I said I used logic based on my belief that God is omnipotent to come to the conclusion that God has a plan and those seemingly horrible things are a part of that plan for some reason. Not that God was susceptible to human logic.

And I wouldn't say that I was "blind" or have blind faith. I perceive that God touches our lives almost daily and has a hand in our path. I see the miracle of existence of life and choose to believe it's not randomness. These perceptions aren't proof, but they aren't without merit. To call me blind means there's not reason to believe in something beyond random coincidence.

I was actually referring more to the people that think they have it figured out that there is NO GOD.

They try to use logic as to why God would or would not do something--or allow/not allow something to happen.

If we are going to be really honest here...if anyone here has the balls to admit it....then I will be the first here...

No one on this entire planet now or throughout history has ever seen god and can prove it....

Which makes all of us blind here....I readily admit that when it comes to knowing the mystery of this thing we call god....I don't really know what it really is...and that is ok.

It is like the proverbial blind guys arguing over what the color green is....one guy says it is smooth like satin...the other says no it is soothing like soft music...then they get into an argument and beat each other....

Neither of them has ever seen the color green and yet they are beating the shit outta each other....


that is all we are doing here....

none of us KNOWS either way if there is or isn't a god...

and so we will remain until the end of our life.

[Blake]

prove that we are all blind.

[Ignignokt]

One side clearly won the debate.

Yet, it was dumbass vs dumbass.

Look, you should never be called to prove a negative.

But at the same time, you're not clever if you ask questions like why does God allow for shitty things to happen..

That's not a clever point.

I could play theist and knock some of you asshole atheist out looking silly.

[Th'Pusher]

One side clearly won the debate.

Yet, it was dumbass vs dumbass.

Look, you should never be called to prove a negative.

But at the same time, you're not clever if you ask questions like why does God allow for shitty things to happen..

That's not a clever point.

I could play theist and knock some of you asshole atheist out looking silly.

Lol at reading 20 pages of dumbass vs dumbass debate unclever questions.

[scott]

One side clearly won the debate.

Yet, it was dumbass vs dumbass.

Look, you should never be called to prove a negative.

But at the same time, you're not clever if you ask questions like why does God allow for shitty things to happen..

That's not a clever point.

I could play theist and knock some of you asshole atheist out looking silly.

Challenge accepted. Start a thread.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I know you're asking him, but of course that goes through my mind. Never said I knew anything. Just faith that shit happens for a reason. Principle without God in tough times (I'm talking really excutiatingly tough times) isn't enough for a lot of people. Faith in a grander plan is necessary. Some of us aren't so fortunate to not need God's "help." call it a cop out or whatever you want to call it but until you've walked in my shoes I think it's pretty dumb.

This is actually where I find the insidious portion of religion. They trade comfort for social control. I like the idea that my freinds and family that have passed on are moved on to a better place. However I see it for what it is and refuse to allow the selfishness of a sense of comfort trade my logic for what I know to be true.

Would it be nice that my grandmother was chilling ina place of enlightenment? You bet but at the same time that does not make all the rest of the shit that they feed you true no matter how nice that one thing would be.

I have actually had events in my life that I believe were supernatural and have me firmly believe that the spiritual realm is more than a farce. That does not mean some dogmatic bullshit from obvious liars is true.

[silverblk mystix]

prove that we are all blind.

It is a self-evident truth. If you can't provide just ONE human who has seen God and can prove it...

then all we are doing here is pissing in the wind.

[mingus]

This is actually where I find the insidious portion of religion. They trade comfort for social control. I like the idea that my freinds and family that have passed on are moved on to a better place. However I see it for what it is and refuse to allow the selfishness of a sense of comfort trade my logic for what I know to be true.

Would it be nice that my grandmother was chilling ina place of enlightenment? You bet but at the same time that does not make all the rest of the shit that they feed you true no matter how nice that one thing would be.

I have actually had events in my life that I believe were supernatural and have me firmly believe that the spiritual realm is more than a farce. That does not mean some dogmatic bullshit from obvious liars is true.

I'll be the first to tell you that religious dogma as far as im concerned is bullshit. I don't believe in the teachings of Judaism or Christianity. I think most of what's in them is strange and clearly anecdotal. Those dogmas dont make much sense to me and i dont follow them. But for me having a vague but firm faith that there's a God, a Creator, an ultimate Judge is liberating to me. It's both centered me and allowed me to explore see and appreciate things in life I probably wouldn't have otherwise. You get called a Bible thumper around here for that though, a religious nut.

[ElNono]

I'll be the first to tell you that religious dogma as far as im concerned is bullshit. I don't believe in the teachings of Judaism or Christianity. I think most of what's in them is strange and clearly anecdotal. Those dogmas dont make much sense to me and i dont follow them. But for me having a vague but firm faith that there's a God, a Creator, an ultimate Judge is liberating to me. It's both centered me and allowed me to explore see and appreciate things in life I probably wouldn't have otherwise. You get called a Bible thumper around here for that though, a religious nut.

Meh, I can only speak for myself, but I've pointed out in other threads dangling with this topic that I do see the value of religion as a social tool.
It's undeniable that tools like religion or psychology have helped people find that balance you mention in their lives.

Now, it wouldn't work for me. But if it works for somebody else, then good for them.

[Drachen]

why won't god heal the circumcised?

[mouse]

why won't god heal the circumcised?

As your waiting on an answer may I suggest your boyfriend try the latest surgery?


http://www.restoringtally.com/blog/2010/06/how-start-restoring-your-foreskin
http://www.circumstitions.com/Restore.html

[jacobdrj]

Because God knew that eventually Man would create really awesome prostheses that are superior in their expense/modularity/functionality... God likes watching civilization progress. I would imagine it is quite entertaining...

God's ultimate plan is for human kind to transform itself into the Borg...

[cantthinkofanything]

If God has a plan for you, does that mean you really have free will?

No. It's all predetermined. People believe that the choices they make are spontaneus but their decisions are based on chemicals in their brain reacting to the results of past events which are in turn based on chemstry, physics, equations, etc.


Machine put in place by who?

If I knew who, what, or why (not there has to be a who, what or why), I probably wouln't be spending my valuable time on Spurstalk.

[101A]

No. It's all predetermined. People believe that the choices they make are spontaneus but their decisions are based on chemicals in their brain reacting to the results of past events which are in turn based on chemstry, physics, equations, etc.

Seems logical. Hit the reboot button on the Universe, and it all turns out EXACTLY as it did this time. This atom mixes with that one, form that sun, planet, etc.....until we end up with ios 5 and Justin Bieber.

[cantthinkofanything]

Seems logical. Hit the reboot button on the Universe, and it all turns out EXACTLY as it did this time. This atom mixes with that one, form that sun, planet, etc.....until we end up with ios 5 and Justin Bieber.

If you hit the reboot button EXACTLY the same way, then yes.

[LnGrrrR]

No. It's all predetermined. People believe that the choices they make are spontaneus but their decisions are based on chemicals in their brain reacting to the results of past events which are in turn based on chemstry, physics, equations, etc.

Given that matter on it's smallest level is all about probabilities, and not exact spots, I don't think that's quite true.

[cantthinkofanything]

Given that matter on it's smallest level is all about probabilities, and not exact spots, I don't think that's quite true.

Is that definitive or is it possible that we just aren't able to analyze it on the smallest level yet?

[LnGrrrR]

Is that definitive or is it possible that we just aren't able to analyze it on the smallest level yet?

All the evidence at the moment points to definitive. Now, maybe sometime in the future we'll be able to know both momentum and destination at the same time, but everything so far says we can either have the wave or the particle, but not both.

I'm sure Agloco could explain better than I if he sees this.

[ElNono]

Challenge accepted. Start a thread.

Whatever happened to this?

http://tumblr-gifs.com/pics/47.gif

[cantthinkofanything]

Whatever happened to this?

http://tumblr-gifs.com/pics/47.gif

It died in 2009. They just recently convicted its doctor of manslaughter.

[ElNono]

^^^ :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Meh, I can only speak for myself, but I've pointed out in other threads dangling with this topic that I do see the value of religion as a social tool.
It's undeniable that tools like religion or psychology have helped people find that balance you mention in their lives.

Now, it wouldn't work for me. But if it works for somebody else, then good for them.

Sure but that sword cuts both ways and blind faith cannot discern the difference.

[Drachen]

it died in 2009. They just recently convicted its doctor of manslaughter.

lol!

[AFBlue]

If God has a plan for you, does that mean you really have free will?

Must've skipped over this post initially, but it's a great question that I honestly struggle with. I'd like to believe that the choices I make are my own and that God has the power to change my path to suit his greater purpose. I don't know how that rectifies logically with pre-destination though.

[AFBlue]

Do you acknowledge that it may just be that its just much more comforting to think that there is some grand scheme for such a tragedy like that versus the notion that its just a random event?

I acknowledge that it's comforting to believe, but I don't believe JUST because it's comforting.

[AFBlue]

One side clearly won the debate.

Yet, it was dumbass vs dumbass.

Look, you should never be called to prove a negative.

But at the same time, you're not clever if you ask questions like why does God allow for shitty things to happen..

That's not a clever point.

I could play theist and knock some of you asshole atheist out looking silly.

Who clearly wins a theoretical argument that can't be proven or disproven?

[redzero]

Who clearly wins a theoretical argument that can't be proven or disproven?

The argument is not about proving or disproving the existence of God. We're arguing about the reasoning behind our belief (or lack thereof) in God.

[ElNono]

Sure but that sword cuts both ways and blind faith cannot discern the difference.

No doubt. But as long as they don't step into my backyard and it makes them happy, what's the problem?

[101A]

The argument is not about proving or disproving the existence of God. We're arguing about the reasoning behind our belief (or lack thereof) in God.

Most if not all of the theists on the board have readily admitted that they derive their belief in God from faith. Some reasoning, is involved, but, basically, it's faith.

The atheists on the board admittedly built their belief structure from reason.

So, if you set the determination of winner and loser from "reasoning behind our belief", you have predetermined the winner, haven't you?

There is literally no point to this (which I have known all along, but wanted to illustrate with this post)

However, I cannot leave the thread without one more observation:

I don't believe that extra terrestrials have ever visited our planet. Many people do believe that. It doesn't bother me, and I certainly don't start threads to discredit their beliefs. Why do atheists continually start, and prolong (rough estimate - atheists are responsible for 70%+ of the posts in this thread) these threads? What is urging you to keep asking over, and over for believers to justify their beliefs to you - asking, pleading, over and over again for us to explain our faith to you.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I truly hope and pray that one day you find what it is you are searching for.

[redzero]

Why not ask?

And prayer doesn't do anything, so you can stop wasting your time.

[NASpurs]

Why not ask?

And prayer doesn't do anything, so you can stop wasting your time.

That's like the third time you mention that in this thread. Does praying bother you that much?

[mingus]

I don't believe prayer does anything, but to say to someone to quit wasting their time is fucking stupid. I've said and I'll say it again: Until you've walked in someone's shoes you can stop the fucking lecturing. One size does not fit all.

[mingus]

That's like the third time you mention that in this thread. Does praying bother you that much?

He's definitely scarred. Nobody demonstrates the amount of flat out hate this guy does without having some serious trauma.

[LnGrrrR]

That's like the third time you mention that in this thread. Does praying bother you that much?

I know this was directed to redzero, but I don't mind people praying for me. I understand the intention behind it, even if I don't think it will bring about any true change.

In the same way, I'm offended by people who think I'll be going to hell for not believing, because I see the intention behind that, not because I'm worried about going to a place I don't believe exists.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No doubt. But as long as they don't step into my backyard and it makes them happy, what's the problem?

Thats the whole point. They don't. It would be lovely if people were to take the Martin Luther and Buddha thing and make religion solely a personal experience. Thats not even remotely what happens.

A large part of the problem is that what has been uncovered to be the truth often is at odds with what religious texts say. For as much as you hear about science isn't really at odds with religion, thats just lip service. The observed facts and theories developed from science do not even remotely jive with any of the major religions.

I actually have a measure of respect for people that at least try and force observable facts to fit with religious precepts. To me that at least speaks for a desire for truth. So much of what you see is just picking and choosing whats left that is both convenient and not patently absurd. At least Deuteronomy is now out of favor.

Party platforms are notoriously rife with Judeo-Christian ideals and our foreign and domestic policy are in large part dictated by them as well. Far too many decisions this country makes are based on what is at its core is a lie.

[redzero]

He's definitely scarred. Nobody demonstrates the amount of flat out hate this guy does without having some serious trauma.

:lol Sure, e-psychiatrist.

And that was the second time I mentioned prayer, not third.

And it still does nothing.

[ElNono]

Thats the whole point. They don't. It would be lovely if people were to take the Martin Luther and Buddha thing and make religion solely a personal experience. Thats not even remotely what happens.

A large part of the problem is that what has been uncovered to be the truth often is at odds with what religious texts say. For as much as you hear about science isn't really at odds with religion, thats just lip service. The observed facts and theories developed from science do not even remotely jive with any of the major religions.

I actually have a measure of respect for people that at least try and force observable facts to fit with religious precepts. To me that at least speaks for a desire for truth. So much of what you see is just picking and choosing whats left that is both convenient and not patently absurd. At least Deuteronomy is now out of favor.

Party platforms are notoriously rife with Judeo-Christian ideals and our foreign and domestic policy are in large part dictated by them as well. Far too many decisions this country makes are based on what is at its core is a lie.

Some people find meaning/happiness in life through fairy tales. Other people do it through getting high or having the shrink listen to their babbling for hours on end. If it helps them though, good for them.

I agree that some get carried away and feel the urge to tell the rest of the world how revealing their experience was. I have no problem with them either, unless they can't take "not interested" for an answer. Then there's the nazi-like who wants to ream their core bullshit through everyone's throat (ie: your platform comment). Those are definitely a problem.

I think a lot of these people are not looking for 'truth'. They're just looking for something much less complicated, comforting and that provides a degree of meaning to their lives. We can discuss all day whether it's a bunch of baloney or not, but as long as they keep it to themselves and, as I like to say, "works for them", then good for them.

[NASpurs]

:lol Sure, e-psychiatrist.

And that was the second time I mentioned prayer, not third.

And it still does nothing.

Exactly, third time.

And for something that does nothing, it sure bothers you.

[redzero]

And for something that does nothing, it sure bothers you.

It bothers me that people still pretend that it does something.