Why won't God heal amputees?

[NASpurs]

It bothers me that people still pretend that it does something.

You're an atheist who believes that prayer does nothing? Color me surprised.

I think prayer is just part of the problem that bothers you.

Yet I find it funny that Christians are supposed to be open minded for everyone else while *atheists can be closed minded and shrug everything off, yet still seem cool. What a ridiculous double standard.

And I'm not grouping everyone together here. I'm open minded.

*insert "some"

[redzero]

I think prayer is just part of the problem that bothers you.

Obviously.


Yet I find it funny that Christians are supposed to be open minded for everyone else

Since when were Christians supposed to be open-minded for everyone else?


while *atheists can be closed minded and shrug everything off, yet still seem cool.

Shrug what off? Superstitious nonsense?


What a ridiculous double standard.

I'm not seeing it. You are being incoherent.

[NASpurs]

Thanks for proving my point. :tu

[redzero]

Oh, I got it. You make some vague accusations about me being close-minded, so when I ask for clarification, you give yourself a pat on the back and think, "There ya go! He's too close-minded to see my point!"

[NASpurs]

Oh, I got it. You make some vague accusations about me being close-minded, so when I ask for clarification, you give yourself a pat on the back and think, "There ya go! He's too close-minded to see my point!"

Being vague works with you. Why should I have to be specific for someone who's going to try and shit out everything I say?

I was going to explain before all of this why prayer works for some people psychologically at least and how praying doesn't equate to God snapping his fingers and making things appear out of thin air but why bother. You've said it three times how you think it's nonsense and you've already shut your mind in thinking otherwise. What's the point in being specific then?

[redzero]

I've made my mind up already because I already know that prayer is just wishful thinking.

Someone gets sick.
One of their friends prays for them.
If the person recovers, then "THANK JEEBUS!"
If the person doesn't recover, then "It must have been their time."

[mingus]

Some people find meaning/happiness in life through fairy tales. Other people do it through getting high or having the shrink listen to their babbling for hours on end. If it helps them though, good for them.

I agree that some get carried away and feel the urge to tell the rest of the world how revealing their experience was. I have no problem with them either, unless they can't take "not interested" for an answer. Then there's the nazi-like who wants to ream their core bullshit through everyone's throat (ie: your platform comment). Those are definitely a problem.

I think a lot of these people are not looking for 'truth'. They're just looking for something much less complicated, comforting and that provides a degree of meaning to their lives. We can discuss all day whether it's a bunch of baloney or not, but as long as they keep it to themselves and, as I like to say, "works for them", then good for them.

what is truth to you may not be truth to everybody. i believe that the spiritual is a very personal thing. i believe strongly that i have been in contact with a spirit once in my life. i was showering in my college dorm complex my freshmen year at 2 am. got out and started brushing my teeth, probably thinking about pussy or something. i feel something move at a fast pace right behind me, just rush past me. so naturally i turn around to see who was there. nothing. i find out later that a couple years ealier a kid had fell and died after hitting his head in the shower. make of it what you will. you'll probably say it was just wind. but there was no wind.

some people just wont admit something may exist if they can't see it with their own eyes. maybe they're the ones avoiding the truth.

[redzero]

Lol "avoiding the truth"
Lol "I know what I'll do! I'll run behind him very fast, because I'm a spirit and that is my idea of sending messages."

[ElNono]

what is truth to you may not be truth to everybody. i believe that the spiritual is a very personal thing. i believe strongly that i have been in contact with a spirit once in my life. i was showering in my college dorm complex my freshmen year at 2 am. got out and started brushing my teeth, probably thinking about pussy or something. i feel something move at a fast pace right behind me, just rush past me. so naturally i turn around to see who was there. nothing. i find out later that a couple years ealier a kid had fell and died after hitting his head in the shower. make of it what you will. you'll probably say it was just wind. but there was no wind.

some people just wont admit something may exist if they can't see it with their own eyes. maybe they're the ones avoiding the truth.

Sounds a case of confirmation bias, tbh. "Because I didn't know what it was, it must've been religious/spiritual!". Under that circumstance, "I really have no fucking clue what that was" is just as plausible an explanation.

I think people simply have different bars to what they consider true/fact. Conversely they also have different bars on how they classify what they don't know/understand.

The 'eye test' is baloney. Plenty of chemical reactions/physics stuff that we can't see, yet they're testable and reproducible, and can be established as fact, at the very least, on a local level. Faith never enters that conversation (and boy, did I have had my exchanges with Phenomenaul about this! :lol)

[mingus]

Sounds a case of confirmation bias, tbh. "Because I didn't know what it was, it must've been religious/spiritual!". Under that circumstance, "I really have no fucking clue what that was" is just as plausible an explanation.

I think people simply have different bars to what they consider true/fact. Conversely they also have different bars on how they classify what they don't know/understand.

The 'eye test' is baloney. Plenty of chemical reactions/physics stuff that we can't see, yet they're testable and reproducible, and can be established as fact, at the very least, on a local level. Faith never enters that conversation (and boy, did I have had my exchanges with Phenomenaul about this! :lol)

well neither of us know what that was. we (should) believe we know what that was. and it sure as well wasn't confirmation bias. before that incident happened i sort of scoffed at all that supernatural stuff. maybe we just don't have the tools to effectively explore reality in its entirety. you could be denying reality and i could be making shit up. but both of us would be fooling ourselves if we thought we actually had enough of a grasp of anything to just flat state with 100% certainty that what we don't percieve as reality "baloney." or conversely what we do percieve as reality a truth.

[Leetonidas]

itt: believers attempting to justify their stupidity and lack of responsibility for their own lives as "God's will"

:lmao faggots

[Blake]

well neither of us know what that was. we (should) believe we know what that was. and it sure as well wasn't confirmation bias. before that incident happened i sort of scoffed at all that supernatural stuff. maybe we just don't have the tools to effectively explore reality in its entirety. you could be denying reality and i could be making shit up. but both of us would be fooling ourselves if we thought we actually had enough of a grasp of anything to just flat state with 100% certainty that what we don't percieve as reality "baloney." or conversely what we do percieve as reality a truth.

Lol denying reality

[mingus]

i'll ask this question to you Leetonidas, and maybe you wont run away from it like the other faggot did.

if you were tied up and Jerry Sandusky said he was going to put his dick up your ass. and you asked him why he would do such a thing, and he said who cares there's no God. what i'm about to do to your ass has no consequences if i can get away with it. would you proceed to try and convince him that there's an afterlife and there will be consequences for his actions? or would you just let him butt fuck you?

(tbh your probably not the right guy to ask since you probably take it up the ass with enjoyment anyway)

[Leetonidas]

You're a fucking idiot, what a stupid question :lmao :lmao stupid religites and their retarded nonsensical scenarios

[mingus]

you going to run away from it like that?

[ElNono]

well neither of us know what that was.

But only one of us would classify it as "I don't know what that was". The other associated it with something religious/spiritual.

[redzero]

wow, that question is retarded.

[RandomGuy]

Most if not all of the theists on the board have readily admitted that they derive their belief in God from faith. Some reasoning, is involved, but, basically, it's faith.

The atheists on the board admittedly built their belief structure from reason.

So, if you set the determination of winner and loser from "reasoning behind our belief", you have predetermined the winner, haven't you?

There is literally no point to this (which I have known all along, but wanted to illustrate with this post)

However, I cannot leave the thread without one more observation:

I don't believe that extra terrestrials have ever visited our planet. Many people do believe that. It doesn't bother me, and I certainly don't start threads to discredit their beliefs. Why do atheists continually start, and prolong (rough estimate - atheists are responsible for 70%+ of the posts in this thread) these threads? What is urging you to keep asking over, and over for believers to justify their beliefs to you - asking, pleading, over and over again for us to explain our faith to you.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I truly hope and pray that one day you find what it is you are searching for.

Does it take more or equal faith to disbelieve Bigfoot as it does to believe in Bigfoot?

[mingus]

wow, that question is retarded.

just answer it, faggot.

[mingus]

But only one of us would classify it as "I don't know what that was". The other associated it with something religious/spiritual.

but is still don't know what it is. faith is not knowing.

[redzero]

A person might say anything to avoid being sodimized. Your question is retarded.

[ElNono]

but is still don't know what it is. faith is not knowing anything.

That makes no sense. Faith involves associating it with something. Be it god, ghosts, the flaying spaghetti monster, etc.

Not knowing means not knowing. There's nothing wrong with not knowing. It also requires no associations.

[mingus]

A person might say anything to avoid being sodimized. Your question is retarded.

exactly. sodomy is just one instance where someone might use God to give themselves comfort. there's suffering everywhere. if people feel they have to invoke God to help them pull through it wtf are you to call them and idiot?

[RandomGuy]

Your problem isn't with faith per se, but with the human use of it. Has bad shit been done in the name of religion? Absolutely. But you can say the same thing of science - i.e. the whole eugenics movement.

People suck. Religion and Science give them excuses to suck. Doesn't mean something is wrong with Religion or Science. Just that something is wrong with people.

Faith in and of itself isn't bad. Faith in something actively illogical and contrary to available evidence is not somthing I can hang with.

[mouse]

Lol "
Lol ""

I notice you like to Lol allot. I wonder if you will be Lol'ng this much when your 10 minutes away from death




Charles Darwin Became a Christian on His Deathbed and Renounced Evolution

Charles Darwin, the author of THE SPECIES BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION in 1859 and the champion of evolution, renounced his evolutionary theory and became a Christian on his deathbed. This was reported by noblewoman Lady Hope who said she visited Darwin at his home in England at the close of his life. She described him as reading the book of Hebrews in the New Testament of the Bible. She also said that he regarded his writings about evolution to be questions that people made into a religion. Lady Hope said Darwin asked her to conduct a meeting outside a summer house he owned so he could hear the singing of the hymns.

[ElNono]

What happens when they get sodomized in church? Who do they call to pull through?

[mingus]

That makes no sense. Faith involves associating it with something. Be it god, ghosts, the flaying spaghetti monster, etc.

Not knowing means not knowing. There's nothing wrong with not knowing. It also requires no associations.

you called it baloney. you didn't say you believe it was baloney, which doesn't make sense. there's nothing wrong with not knowing.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i'll ask this question to you Leetonidas, and maybe you wont run away from it like the other faggot did.

if you were tied up and Jerry Sandusky said he was going to put his dick up your ass. and you asked him why he would do such a thing, and he said who cares there's no God. what i'm about to do to your ass has no consequences if i can get away with it. would you proceed to try and convince him that there's an afterlife and there will be consequences for his actions? or would you just let him butt fuck you?

(tbh your probably not the right guy to ask since you probably take it up the ass with enjoyment anyway)

i would tell him that i had AIDS and a particularly violent form of herpes as its much more plausible than the tooth fairly swooping in to save the day. If i am going to lie then it might as well be something logically possible.

[mingus]

What happens when they get sodomized in church? Who do they call to pull through?

God? why wouldnt they be able to do that?

[mingus]

i would tell him that i had AIDS and a particularly violent form of herpes as its much more plausible than the tooth fairly swooping in to save the day. If i am going to lie then it might as well be something logically possible.

so you'd take it up the ass?

[ElNono]

you called it baloney. you didn't say you believe it was baloney, which doesn't make sense. there's nothing wrong with not knowing.

I called your 'eye test' premise baloney, and that's exactly what it is. Plenty of testable things we know exactly how they work but might not be able to necessarily 'see'.

[redzero]

exactly. sodomy is just one instance where someone might use God to give themselves comfort. there's suffering everywhere. if people feel they have to invoke God to help them pull through it wtf are you to call them and idiot?

Wow, that's even more retarded. There's a difference between saying something out of fear and saying something out of belief.

[mingus]

Wow, that's even more retarded. There's a difference between saying something out of fear and saying something out of belief.

if believing helps someone get through problems though, who are you to call them an idiot? it all goes back to stfu if you haven't walked in someone's shoes.

[ElNono]

so you'd take it up the ass?

Invoking god is going to prevent that?

[ElNono]

God? why wouldnt they be able to do that?

Because they're getting sodomized by a rep of god?

[mingus]

Invoking god is going to prevent that?
you don't believe invoking God has ever caused someone's life/well being to be saved?

the abolitionsit movement was founded by religious people. MLK was a Babtist and believed in everyones, black or white, God given equality.

were lives not saved with the invocation of God in those contexts?

[RandomGuy]

If there is no evidence of something, it requires more faith to believe in it, than it does to not believe in it.

You can't equate the two.

[mingus]

Because they're getting sodomized by a rep of god?

i already touched on this point a while back in this thread. not going to repeat it.

[ElNono]

if believing helps someone get through problems though, who are you to call them an idiot? it all goes back to stfu if you haven't walked in someone's shoes.

You think people that didn't go through traumatic problems don't understand?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

so you'd take it up the ass?

Thats not a mutually exclusive outcome. I expect he would second guess much more surely in fear of dying from a known autoimmune disease or weeping genital sores than the boogeyman. I really cannot speak to the mind of a rapist though.

Its a bullshit scenario. In the face of hardship I don't turn to lies. Thats one of my main tenants. You and many others do.

[ElNono]

you don't believe invoking God has ever caused someone's life to be saved?

you don't believe invoking the flying spaghetti monster has ever caused someone's life to be saved?

It's a false premise.

[mouse]

What happens when they get sodomized in church? Who do they call ?

K3IhBf1rWx8

[ElNono]

2tY3tSixSlY

:greedy

[RandomGuy]

I notice you like to Lol allot. I wonder if you will be Lol'ng this much when your 10 minutes away from death




Charles Darwin Became a Christian on His Deathbed and Renounced Evolution

Charles Darwin, the author of THE SPECIES BY MEANS OF NATURAL SELECTION in 1859 and the champion of evolution, renounced his evolutionary theory and became a Christian on his deathbed. This was reported by noblewoman Lady Hope who said she visited Darwin at his home in England at the close of his life. She described him as reading the book of Hebrews in the New Testament of the Bible. She also said that he regarded his writings about evolution to be questions that people made into a religion. Lady Hope said Darwin asked her to conduct a meeting outside a summer house he owned so he could hear the singing of the hymns.

Debunked. This bit was made up entirely by someone's wishful thinking.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/03/31/darwins-deathbed-conversion-legend
Not that I think you care about someone other than a mild response to your trolling, and not that it is relevant.

[ElNono]

Anyways, back to video games.

[redzero]

lol mouse using long debunked myths
lol lying asshole knows that that story is untrue, but he still posts it anyway

if believing helps someone get through problems though, who are you to call them an idiot? it all goes back to stfu if you haven't walked in someone's shoes.

Oh, so now you dropped the retarded point you were trying to make? Good, because that was really, really stupid.

[mingus]

Thats not a mutually exclusive outcome. I expect he would second guess much more surely in fear of dying from a known autoimmune disease or weeping genital sores than the boogeyman. I really cannot speak to the mind of a rapist though.

Its a bullshit scenario. In the face of hardship I don't turn to lies. Thats one of my main tenants. You and many others do.

hey more power to you. i gotta give it up to someone whose not willing to invoke the name of God to stop himself from getting ass raped.

that scenario, though, is just one scenario. plenty of people have suffered probably beyond more than you can imagine and maybe not turning to God doesn't work out for them.

[mingus]

lol mouse using long debunked myths
lol lying asshole knows that that story is untrue, but he still posts it anyway


Oh, so now you dropped the retarded point you were trying to make? Good, because that was really, really stupid.

would you take it up the ass or tell Sardusky out of fear and for your won well-being that there's a God? or are you like FuzzyLumpkins and have an ass made of steel?

[mouse]

lol mouse using long debunked myths
lol .

My point exactly.

http://theapologeticsbookstore.com/images/products/detail/9781596980976.jpg

[mingus]

you don't believe invoking the flying spaghetti monster has ever caused someone's life to be saved?

It's a false premise.

you're denying historical fact. now you're not believing truths, forget about my "lies"

[mouse]

Debunked..


Speaking of Debunked.....

Darwin may be the most Debunked person that ever lived on the earth.

http://www.livingwaters.com/weeklyupdates/images/2009/01/billboard-pullplug.jpg

[ElNono]

you're denying historical fact. now you're not believing truths, forget about my "lies"

What historical fact I'm denying? What "truths" I'm overlooking?

It's still a false premise.

[mingus]

You think people that didn't go through traumatic problems don't understand?

that's not what i believe at all. i think it's two things: brain chemistry and experience.

[ElNono]

that's not what i believe at all. i think it's two things: brain chemistry and experience.

How did you get to that conclusion?

[redzero]

Again, one might say anything to avoid sodomy. And it's not like "Oh, since you brought up a God I don't believe in, I decided not to assrape you."

[RandomGuy]

Speaking of Debunked.....

Darwin may be the most Debunked person that ever lived on the earth.


That distinction is yours, given your trolling. :p:

[mingus]

What historical fact I'm denying? What "truths" I'm overlooking?

It's still a false premise.

you're going to tell me with a straight face that faith isn't at all responsible for saving lives and the well-being of others?

[redzero]

My point exactly.

http://theapologeticsbookstore.com/images/products/detail/9781596980976.jpg

Oh, so you admit you were lying?

[RandomGuy]

What happens when they get sodomized in church? Who do they call to pull through?

m9We2XsVZfc ???

[mingus]

Again, one might say anything to avoid sodomy. And it's not like "Oh, since you brought up a God I don't believe in, I decided not to assrape you."

my point is you're lying though. you're lying out of fear and out of comfort. i've already said before that i don't have the answer to whether God exists or not. but if i operate better believing in a God that may nor may not exists, possibly lying in the process, then shut up.

[mouse]

your trolling,

And what do you call creating a screen name RandomLie and posting in the same thread, Scientific research? Is this your Job? Or a project for school?

Every bitch that post on the www that doesn't use they're real name is a TRoll

Why is that so hard for the little brains to figure out?



http://www.atheistdelusion.net/images/books-thumbnails/36_Answering-the-New-Atheism.jpg

[ElNono]

you're going to tell me with a straight face that faith isn't at all responsible for saving lives and the well-being of others?

Nope. I'm also going to say that it has no more weight than claiming you have AIDS when it comes to avoiding being sodomized. Actually, I would argue it has LESS weight.

That's why it's a false premise.

[RandomGuy]

My point exactly.

http://theapologeticsbookstore.com/images/products/detail/9781596980976.jpg

LOL posting a picture from a guy who believes in evolution to "debunk" Darwin.

[mingus]

How did you get to that conclusion?

articles i've read.

[RandomGuy]

And what do you call creating a screen name RandomLie and posting in the same thread, Scientific research? Is this your Job? Or a project for school?

Every bitch that post on the www that doesn't use they're real name is a TRoll

Why is that so hard for the little brains to figure out?



:sleep

qs3RKZjSzYg

[redzero]

my point is you're lying though. you're lying out of fear and out of comfort. i've already said before that i don't have the answer to whether God exists or not. but if i operate better believing in a God that may nor may not exists, possibly lying in the process, then shut up.

Okay then. Belief in God is lying to oneself out of fear and comfort. Gotcha.

[mouse]

Oh, so you admit you were lying?

When I said you was someone who brings good conversation to the topics a year ago.... yes, It was a Lie........ thank you for pointing it out.

[mingus]

Nope. I'm also going to say that it has no more weight than claiming you have AIDS when it comes to avoiding being sodomized. Actually, I would argue it has LESS weight.

That's why it's a false premise.

i think that's bullshit. i think fear in God keeps a lot of people in check, and from doing something stupid.

[ElNono]

articles i've read.

So why the whole "until you've been in those shoes" diatribe?

Plenty of people have been in similar shoes and found different solutions. Some of them actually rational and not associated with faith at all.

[mingus]

Okay then. Belief in God is maybe lying to oneself out of fear and comfort. Gotcha.

fify

[ElNono]

i think that's bullshit. i think fear in God keeps a lot of people in check, and from doing something stupid.

I don't disagree that works with the gullible (and I just don't know how to write that without sounding like an ass, so excuse me), but actual rational fear on something we know to be factually true will always trump irrational fear. ie: certain death vs possible death, etc.

[redzero]

When I said you was someone who brings good conversation to the topics a year ago.... yes, It was a Lie........ thank you for pointing it out.

Again, were you lying when you brought up the deathbed conversion story? Stop dodging the question with your unfunny smack.

[redzero]

fify

LOL "maybe"

[mingus]

So why the whole "until you've been in those shoes" diatribe?

Plenty of people have been in similar shoes and found different solutions. Some of them actually rational and not associated with faith at all.

until you've been in my shoes encompasses more than experience. it's experience, definitely, but it's more than that. it's having my genetics, it's having my brain chemistry.

[ElNono]

until you've been in my shoes encompasses more than experience. it's experience, definitely, but it's more than that. it's having my genetics, it's having my brain chemistry.

How could you say that without demonstrable links between brain chemistry/genetics and the spiritual? We're going on faith again, I presume.

[mouse]

You guys are on your own with DeadZero it's obvious he's a neglected 17 year old kid with no XBox searching for a friend on a message board.

have fun babysitting him and reading his stale outdated comebacks.

[Proxy]

Spirituality is a comforting illusion you use to detract from facing your fears. Your 'experiences' are warped in your personal perception. You're just another form of life in the universe. Your purpose is no different from a virus or tree. Believing that you're anything higher is pure arrogance and stupidity. Superstition is a sign of weak mindedness, as well as proof that you've become subject to instinct instead of logic.