Starting a business

[spursncowboys]

I am thinking about starting a business. i want to start an upscale coffee shop. However I haven't lived in San Antonio for a few years. What is the market like in San Antonio with small biz coffee shops?

I also have a friend who wants me to partner with him on a bar. We are picturing a small size bar with a live band, and we are willing to pay more for location. He wants to go downtown austin. He'll be out of the army while i am finishing my contract and pretty much being a silent partner until I move back to Texas.

So coffee shop or bar with a partner?
Coffee: downtown with the downtown crowd and tourists or Around Broadway with yuppies, college students and people driving town?

Bar: Austin or San Antonio?

Austin: 6th street, downtown or Round Rock?

Any advice would be great.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You have capital?

[baseline bum]

Have Asian bitches in G-strings who talk like the Full Metal Jacket hookers. Just make sure they're 18, you aren't near a school or church, and they're not really hookers.

[spursncowboys]

You have capital?

Yeah Veteran guaranteed loans.

[Heath Ledger]

i think you should buy a franchise like Starbucks or Seattles Best instant brand recognition dont go against the grain. Join the Dark Side.

[spursncowboys]

I want to sell a more European style coffee and cappoccino that focuses on the true coffee flavor as opposed to the american flavoring of everything. also i refuse to ever call a small a tall, medium:grande, and large:venti.

[Heath Ledger]

well best of luck to you competing with the big boys.

[spursncowboys]

thanks.

[NFO]

Have Asian bitches in G-strings who talk like the Full Metal Jacket hookers. Just make sure they're 18, you aren't near a school or church, and they're not really hookers.

What if they just "look" 18?

That should be good enough, right?

[mavs>spurs]

if you're seriously thinking about starting a business then you need to have more of a plan than just asking spurstalk which largely consists of dumbasses, and should probably know a thing or 2 about the town you are planning to open up in. Competition, demand for that sort of thing there, location, etc..

[spursncowboys]

YH: I think you are assuming that this is my only plan. I just wanted to hear what people thought. Although I want a coffee shop and have a better knowledge of the business, I will probably do the bar thing because I would have an equal partner and we already have a business model draft. Also I would have someone to run it while I am finishing out my contract. It would be down the road maybe in a year.

[mavs>spurs]

The best advice that I can offer is that location is EVERYTHING when it comes to bars and that sort of thing. If you do everything else wrong but get that 1 little thing right, you should be moderately successful. Reverse that, and it probably won't matter how well you do everything else, without a good location it will fail.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah Veteran guaranteed loans.

I would not invest in food service. I really do not know you well enough to give better advice.

[spursncowboys]

The best advice that I can offer is that location is EVERYTHING when it comes to bars and that sort of thing. If you do everything else wrong but get that 1 little thing right, you should be moderately successful. Reverse that, and it probably won't matter how well you do everything else, without a good location it will fail.
Thanks
That is exactly what we said.

Fuzzy: I agree completely.

[cantthinkofanything]

Do some SWOT analysis and make sure you have a good mission statement and then develop a business plan. Read Art of War and then break down your portfolio into categories of: dogs, stars, question marks, and cash cows. Try to find the point where MR = ...MC??? and use that info to create synergy.

[mavs>spurs]

^sup marketing major

[cantthinkofanything]

^sup marketing major

no. but for some reason, all that shit is still in my brain. and it was nicer than a mother joke.

[DMX7]

The coffee biz is a pretty competitive business, I think. Austin is probably a better place for a start-up because it embraces alternative and independent shops more than San Antonio. That's just my impression.

[cantthinkofanything]

The coffee biz is a pretty competitive business, I think. Austin is probably a better place for a start-up because it embraces alternative and independent shops more than San Antonio.

and gays. don't forget the gays.

[DMX7]

and gays. don't forget the gays.

Very true. Interesting that your choose to focus on that though.

[cantthinkofanything]

Very true. Interesting that your choose to focus on that though.

that is interesting. but a combo gay coffee shop / bar could be just the ticket.

[spursncowboys]

The coffee biz is a pretty competitive business, I think. Austin is probably a better place for a start-up because it embraces alternative and independent shops more than San Antonio. That's just my impression.

Yeah that was I was thinking. Also it seemed like San Antonio was oversaturated with lil coffee shops. I also think coffee shops with higher prices for better coffee would be more welcomed there. I am going to roast the beans in the store, and I think that kind of small biz quality would be more welcomed, like you said, in austin.

[spursncowboys]

that is interesting. but a combo gay coffee shop / bar could be just the ticket.

Tht comment reminded me of the bar/laundrymat in San Angelo by ASU. It was a great idea for them, and they were making a killing. They had security cameras in the laundrymat with monitors in the bar.

[DMC]

Do some SWOT analysis and make sure you have a good mission statement and then develop a business plan. Read Art of War and then break down your portfolio into categories of: dogs, stars, question marks, and cash cows. Try to find the point where MR = ...MC??? and use that info to create synergy.
Good points, and he should invest in some framed sayings of Lombardi and some inspirational stuff.

[DMC]

If you're doing it in Austin, I can tell you from a user perspective because I use coffee shops a lot for wasting time.

You need seating, outlets for laptops and decent parking. You need outside seating with protection from bird shit, outlets and good free wifi.

Have clean restrooms.

Don't blast shitty music. Play something that's not a hit, not Muzak or that shit. The music should not distract the customer.

Have trash cans emptied regularly and have them near entrances.

Quality stuff, not shit I can get at a Tigermart.

[Agloco]

I am thinking about starting a business. i want to start an upscale coffee shop. However I haven't lived in San Antonio for a few years. What is the market like in San Antonio with small biz coffee shops?

I also have a friend who wants me to partner with him on a bar. We are picturing a small size bar with a live band, and we are willing to pay more for location. He wants to go downtown austin. He'll be out of the army while i am finishing my contract and pretty much being a silent partner until I move back to Texas.

So coffee shop or bar with a partner?
Coffee: downtown with the downtown crowd and tourists or Around Broadway with yuppies, college students and people driving town?

Bar: Austin or San Antonio?

Austin: 6th street, downtown or Round Rock?

Any advice would be great.

:td

Things that should work in SA just don't for some inexplicable reason.

[cantthinkofanything]

and don't put your dick in the pickle slicer

[DMC]

:td

Things that should work in SA just don't for some inexplicable reason.
Area is too spread out, too many wetbacks tbh.

[DMC]

and don't put your dick in the pickle slicer
You were doing ok. Don't fuck it up.

[Agloco]

I want to sell a more European style coffee and cappoccino that focuses on the true coffee flavor as opposed to the american flavoring of everything. also i refuse to ever call a small a tall, medium:grande, and large:venti.

Make sure you have first rate pastries then. Make them very unique as well. They can make or break you.

Oh, and make room for me to light up a pipe if I so choose.

[baseline bum]

Oh, and make room for me to light up a pipe if I so choose.

Wow, you were literally the last person here I'd be expecting to go Pookie on us

UE2tPyGJStQ

[Nathan89]

Do some SWOT analysis and make sure you have a good mission statement and then develop a business plan. Read Art of War and then break down your portfolio into categories of: dogs, stars, question marks, and cash cows. Try to find the point where MR = ...MC??? and use that info to create synergy.

The mission statement is part of a business plan. TBH, though I don't care for mission statement. I've done a few for different classes and seems like a waste of time. Just a bunch of bullshit.

[DMX7]

that is interesting. but a combo gay coffee shop / bar could be just the ticket.

I'm sure it would be. You'd like that, wouldn't you?

[cantthinkofanything]

I'm sure it would be. You'd like that, wouldn't you?

well, I don't drink coffee...

[cantthinkofanything]

The mission statement is part of a business plan. TBH, though I don't care for mission statement. I've done a few for different classes and seems like a waste of time. Just a bunch of bullshit.

if you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

^sup marketing major
:lmao my first thought when he was talking about SWOT analysis and mission statements

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

And honestly the food industry is a bitch. You have to worry about all kinds of shit

employees stealing from you
limited ability of monitoring your inventory
retarded customers who will do shit like sue you for not putting a warning: hot label on the coffee cup

just to name a few. With that said, as someone who plans on starting his own business 5-10 years from now, I respect anyone who has the balls to do it. Good luck.

[Nathan89]

And honestly the food industry is a bitch. You have to worry about all kinds of shit

employees stealing from you
limited ability of monitoring your inventory
retarded customers who will do shit like sue you for not putting a warning: hot label on the coffee cup

just to name a few. With that said, as someone who plans on starting his own business 5-10 years from now, I respect anyone who has the balls to do it. Good luck.

The lady got 3rd degree burns over a large area of her lower body. She almost died and took two years in recovery.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yeah um its still her fault for not knowing that coffee is hot.

[Vici]

Almost didn't reply but I figured it would be the right thing to do.

I also at one point was looking to start a bar/ restaurant but I could not raise the capitol and refused to take a loan from the bank.

Her are a few things to remember.

Whether its a bar or coffee shop put that shit right next to a Starbucks. They have done far more research than you or I could ever hope to do and they are well know to be the best at it.

Austin has a shit ton of bars which tells you two things... there is a market for it and its over saturated. Why would I or anyone else choose your bar over someone else's?

Another is if you have a bar downtown Austin make sure that it is long and narrow. That way it looks busy even if it isn't. Also, downtown Austin ksnt worth the rent. No fucking way not even close. North Austin near mopac and I believe highway 41? Is booming. Its been a while since I lived there but its that highway that's a tollroad north of duval.

Coffee shops are hard and unless you have spent the time to know ow to properly make the drinks don't waste your time. There are a ton of easy ways to fuck up coffee. Also if you do go that route, stick it in a very visible place next to Starbucks. If a customer sees Starbucks then a locally owned joint right next door where do you think they are going to go? I have a buddy in north carolina who has made a killing doing just that but he also spent years learning how to make proper coffee drinks.

Good luck

[mingus]

Here's my .02

People are going to buy coffee from Starsucks, McDonalds, Duncan Donuts, and all the big corporations regardless of whether your coffee tastes better, which it probably will since all their coffee sucks.

Try to entice the buyer with something different. How about live music? How about couple big screen TVs inside? How about on weekends you serve alcoholic beverages during certain hours (nothing hard, but some beer)?

And hire only attractive girls. Don't hire straight dudes. No need to. If you hire attractive women, that'll make men want to go there. Which will in turn make women want to go there.

[mingus]

Also, have a designated place for smoking. 20% of the nation smokes. Starsucks and the other major coffee places don't cater to them.

[admiralsnackbar]

A bar has to work to go out of business in this town. Boutique coffee shops are another story entirely.

[RandomGuy]

I am thinking about starting a business. i want to start an upscale coffee shop. However I haven't lived in San Antonio for a few years. What is the market like in San Antonio with small biz coffee shops?

I also have a friend who wants me to partner with him on a bar. We are picturing a small size bar with a live band, and we are willing to pay more for location. He wants to go downtown austin. He'll be out of the army while i am finishing my contract and pretty much being a silent partner until I move back to Texas.

So coffee shop or bar with a partner?
Coffee: downtown with the downtown crowd and tourists or Around Broadway with yuppies, college students and people driving town?

Bar: Austin or San Antonio?

Austin: 6th street, downtown or Round Rock?

Any advice would be great.

Bars on 6th street have a shelf life of approximately a year.

The only ones that seem to stick around are the ones that cater to the older crowd.

Bars have a lot more liability and problems, plus having a partner compounds both. If the guy is a friend, then this would be a definite no-starter, for me at least. It is possible to make such a thing work, but it is rare from what I understand.

I would stick to the coffee shop, even though the barrier to entry is lower.

As for where in San Antonio to set up shop, I would not know enough about the market to say for certain.

You could do some actual market research, either pay a firm or do your own legwork, probably both, if you are thinking of plunking down a large part of your own money.

I give this advice to every small business person I do bookkeeping for, or even just talk to about things in general:

If you haven't taken at least 2 or 3 course in accounting, get your ass into a community college and do so, along with a course in microeconomics.

There are two skill sets involved in small businesses:
1) Knowing your business. If you want to sell coffee, do your homework on coffee. Know the beans, methods, farmers, etc.
2) Knowing how to make money at the business. Sounds almost too obvious, but most small businesses fail because the owner doesn't know how to price or sell what he/she is offering, and/or doesn't know how to control costs.

There are also some decent government resources to leverage:
http://www.sba.gov/
http://sachamber.org/cwt/external/wcpages/index.aspx

If you want to go upscale, think seriously about a website. People find places using smartphones, and having a "digital footprint" is essential.

Hope this helps.

[RandomGuy]

Almost didn't reply but I figured it would be the right thing to do.

I also at one point was looking to start a bar/ restaurant but I could not raise the capitol and refused to take a loan from the bank.

Her are a few things to remember.

Whether its a bar or coffee shop put that shit right next to a Starbucks. They have done far more research than you or I could ever hope to do and they are well know to be the best at it.

Austin has a shit ton of bars which tells you two things... there is a market for it and its over saturated. Why would I or anyone else choose your bar over someone else's?

Another is if you have a bar downtown Austin make sure that it is long and narrow. That way it looks busy even if it isn't. Also, downtown Austin ksnt worth the rent. No fucking way not even close. North Austin near mopac and I believe highway 41? Is booming. Its been a while since I lived there but its that highway that's a tollroad north of duval.

Coffee shops are hard and unless you have spent the time to know ow to properly make the drinks don't waste your time. There are a ton of easy ways to fuck up coffee. Also if you do go that route, stick it in a very visible place next to Starbucks. If a customer sees Starbucks then a locally owned joint right next door where do you think they are going to go? I have a buddy in north carolina who has made a killing doing just that but he also spent years learning how to make proper coffee drinks.

Good luck

+1 More good advice.

[RandomGuy]

Make sure you have first rate pastries then. Make them very unique as well. They can make or break you.

Oh, and make room for me to light up a pipe if I so choose.

Two words:

Hooka

bar

That would be interesting. Spoke to a guy who does one in San Marcos.

Very interesting business model.

He locates it near the bars that the college kids go to, and it gives the kids somewhere to go after they close and hang out, because you can sell tobacco at any time.

[leemajors]

Also, have a designated place for smoking. 20% of the nation smokes. Starsucks and the other major coffee places don't cater to them.

Uhh, no. 15 feet from the door is where you smoke. Kinda the law unless you wanna install some pricey ventilation system in a separate room.

[Agloco]

Wow, you were literally the last person here I'd be expecting to go Pookie on us

UE2tPyGJStQ

rofl......wrong pipe rasta mon. Tehbackey pipe.

http://www.tecon-gmbh.de/images/Peterson%20Great%20Explorer%20Scott%20braun%204.jp g

[Agloco]

Two words:

Hooka

bar

That would be interesting. Spoke to a guy who does one in San Marcos.

Very interesting business model.

He locates it near the bars that the college kids go to, and it gives the kids somewhere to go after they close and hang out, because you can sell tobacco at any time.

:tu

Yeah, cyclical I'd guess but a boom in season.

[tlongII]

A coffee shop would be easier to manage, but I don't think you will ever make much money from it.

A bar can be a goldmine if done correctly. They are a nightmare to run though.

[Drachen]

Yeah that was I was thinking. Also it seemed like San Antonio was oversaturated with lil coffee shops. I also think coffee shops with higher prices for better coffee would be more welcomed there. I am going to roast the beans in the store, and I think that kind of small biz quality would be more welcomed, like you said, in austin.

If you do want to be in San Antonio, the obvious place may be to locate on the far north side, but I would actually recommend the South Alamo area. King Williams (which is part of/next to south alamo) was just designated a state art area of some sort (supposedly a big honor and one of only 16 in the state). So it will be an even bigger draw to the countercultural types who would probably be the bread and butter of a small startup coffee shop. Plus you would have the added bonus of a huge boost once every month as first friday draws a HUGE amount of people to the area for the art exhibits, etc. Additionally during these first fridays you could rent out the area in front of your store to the different vendors who set up along S. Alamo.

I say all of this with the caveat that I have not gone down there specifically looking for coffee shops so I don't know if it is over saturated or not. I know that there is a tea shop called the Mad Hatter which serves sandwiches and tea, and cool restaurants, biergartens, etc.

[Frenzy]

Make sure to have an interesting name. That way you get curious folk :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

YH: I think you are assuming that this is my only plan. I just wanted to hear what people thought. Although I want a coffee shop and have a better knowledge of the business, I will probably do the bar thing because I would have an equal partner and we already have a business model draft. Also I would have someone to run it while I am finishing out my contract. It would be down the road maybe in a year.

50/50 partner?

You won't be there the first year?...

That's a recipe for disaster...

Bars are a cash business and your friend (no matter how much you like each other) is going to resent you being MIA. It's going to be very tempting for him to fudge the numbers. The bar business can be very profitable IF you keep a close eye on the drinks/cash but it's easy for an employee/partner to steal you blind if you aren't diligent.

Also, 50/50 business partnerships are WORSE than marriages...you better make damn sure you guys are compatible and that you go into it with an EXTENSIVE AND DETAILED buy sell agreement....on a 50/50 deal without one the lawyers will get rich if either of you decide it's not working for you...

[The Reckoning]

50/50 partner?

You won't be there the first year?...

That's a recipe for disaster...

Bars are a cash business and your friend (no matter how much you like each other) is going to resent you being MIA. It's going to be very tempting for him to fudge the numbers. The bar business can be very profitable IF you keep a close eye on the drinks/cash but it's easy for an employee/partner to steal you blind if you aren't diligent.

Also, 50/50 business partnerships are WORSE than marriages...you better make damn sure you guys are compatible and that you go into it with an EXTENSIVE AND DETAILED buy sell agreement....on a 50/50 deal without one the lawyers will get rich if either of you decide it's not working for you...


yep i know a guy who owned a VERY popular dance club in san antono who went MIA at meetings for two months. he came back to find his partner had sold his assets and high-tailed it to mexico. commercial development is a very cutthroat business that requires a career and not an interest.

[coyotes_geek]

50/50 partner?

You won't be there the first year?...

That's a recipe for disaster...

Bars are a cash business and your friend (no matter how much you like each other) is going to resent you being MIA. It's going to be very tempting for him to fudge the numbers. The bar business can be very profitable IF you keep a close eye on the drinks/cash but it's easy for an employee/partner to steal you blind if you aren't diligent.

Also, 50/50 business partnerships are WORSE than marriages...you better make damn sure you guys are compatible and that you go into it with an EXTENSIVE AND DETAILED buy sell agreement....on a 50/50 deal without one the lawyers will get rich if either of you decide it's not working for you...

What's that Dave Ramsey quote, "the only ship that won't stay afloat is a partnership"?

[coyotes_geek]

JMO, but coffee joints in Austin are a dime a dozen. Yeah, you're going to offer better coffee than the Starbucks' of the world. So does every other small, independent coffee joint of which there are many. There's no need for anyone wanting coffee to go out of their way, so it becomes all about location. You have to pick between being a "hang out" coffee joint which requires you to be in a high rent location downtown or near the campus, or being a "morning commute" joint where the rent may be cheaper, but the customers are more interested in how quickly they can get in and out of your establishment than they are how good your coffee is.

[leemajors]

JMO, but coffee joints in Austin are a dime a dozen. Yeah, you're going to offer better coffee than the Starbucks' of the world. So does every other small, independent coffee joint of which there are many. There's no need for anyone wanting coffee to go out of their way, so it becomes all about location. You have to pick between being a "hang out" coffee joint which requires you to be in a high rent location downtown or near the campus, or being a "morning commute" joint where the rent may be cheaper, but the customers are more interested in how quickly they can get in and out of your establishment than they are how good your coffee is.

yup, flight path, pacha, epoch, thunderbird, ruta maya, genuine joe's, etc, etc all have rabidly loyal followings.

[CuckingFunt]

Bars have the highest fail rate of new businesses, no? Followed closely by restaurants?

It's something important to consider. No matter he location, the quality of the food/drinks, the gimmick, and so forth, if you're going into food service you're going to want to plan just as carefully for failure as for success. Especially with a partner. Know in advance how the work/money/responsibility is going to be distributed if things go bad.

[Vici]

In all partnerships there is always one who works harder than the other. Not a good thing unless the business is crazy successful.

Bars can be very profitable and a good bar will usually be profitable within 6 months. There are other things you can do to keep costs down like sometimes the landlord will give you a few months free to get on your feet, with a discounted rate for the first year or two. Sometimes the alcohol distributer will stock the bar for free, and you pay as you go during the initial stocking.

Just ask questions and make sure that those who you are working with know that ti's in their best interest that you stay afloat as much as it is in your interest.

[Vici]

Man, this makes me want to give it another shot again. Just need some loaded Angel investor(s)

[spursncowboys]

Thanks for all the advice. When I get some time, I will definitely respond to each person, since yall took the time to give me free advice.
I do see the 50/50 thing going wrong. Maybe ultimately one of us will have to be majority owner, just by a little. I always wanted to open my own biz but always said I would pick something that I see as lacking in the area and didn't have any perishable items. I really thought a oil changing center would be pretty profitable. However I love coffee and it has always been my dream to own a coffee shop. The barthing is just something I think can work. I would not do much of the running of the business, until I get out of the army, which is in two years. We have also agreed to have two years expenses set aside for the likelyhood of not making a profit right off the back. He seems very practical like me with money. Sorry I am getting off subject.

[DMC]

Get you a white van and some speakers, dawg.

[CosmicCowboy]

Thanks for all the advice. When I get some time, I will definitely respond to each person, since yall took the time to give me free advice.
I do see the 50/50 thing going wrong. Maybe ultimately one of us will have to be majority owner, just by a little. I always wanted to open my own biz but always said I would pick something that I see as lacking in the area and didn't have any perishable items. I really thought a oil changing center would be pretty profitable. However I love coffee and it has always been my dream to own a coffee shop. The barthing is just something I think can work. I would not do much of the running of the business, until I get out of the army, which is in two years. We have also agreed to have two years expenses set aside for the likelyhood of not making a profit right off the back. He seems very practical like me with money. Sorry I am getting off subject.

The only thing WORSE than a 50/50 partnership is being a minority partner.

[clambake]

The only thing WORSE than a 50/50 partnership is being a minority partner.

this

[cantthinkofanything]

The only thing WORSE than a 50/50 partnership is being a minority partner.

That seems kind of broad. Is it worse to be a Mexican partner or a Negro partner?

[Agloco]

The only thing WORSE than a 50/50 partnership is being a minority partner.

racist tbh

[DMC]

racist tbh
:lmao

[Spurminator]

I have no advice to give, but I'll say good luck. Love the rest of the feedback in this thread.

[Vici]

One last thing and this is by far the most important.

Get a job working at a bar or coffee shop and make sure this is the lifestyle change you want. Tell the manager or owner what you are doing and you will find someone who will be willing to help.

When I was working towards my own shop I did this and I can't tell you how helpful my managers/ everyone else was. You can meet liquor reps and build a relationship early, learn all the little tricks like lighting, color schemes, what to carry and what not to. It is so unbelievably important in the bar business. Also keep in mind the lifestyle change this is going to require. You will be spending a good 14 hours 7 days a week in this place the first few months if not year. Sometimes it takes that kind of commitment to get things going.

I helped startup a very well known bar and restaurant in Austin a few years ago and these guys were crazy successful, but they still were forced to spend the first 3 months there all the time. Even going into the first year it is vital that you are there making sure things are run the way they should. That doesn't mean micromanaging but small things like drinks are picked up, customers are taken care of, all customer service issues are handled by you. It's a bitch if you want it done properly.

Once again, goodluck.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Quite frankly bar/coffee shop makes this sounds like this is about you having access to loans rather than having an idea to start a business. Unless there is some time frame by which you have to take those loans or the chance is gone I would spend much more time thinking of an idea of what kind of business to start.

There are many more services and commodities than just food service.