Damn...taking political pandering to a whole new level...

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not saying it's not the right thing to do but it's not the executive branches place to do it without input from congress...gotta say it's a smart move, though...anyone arguing against Obama's right to arbitrarily start changing laws will superficially look like they are arguing against hispanics...



Obama makes election-year change in deportation policy
By Jonathan Easley and Jordy Yager - 06/15/12 10:03 AM ET

The Obama administration announced Friday it will stop deporting illegal immigrants who come to the country at a young age.

The politically charged decision comes as Obama faces a tough reelection fight against Republican Mitt Romney, with Hispanic voters in swing states seen as a key bloc.



The change in policy could allow as many as 800,000 immigrants who came to the United States illegally not only to remain in the country without fear of being deported, but to work legally, according to a senior administration official speaking to reporters Friday.
Obama is set to make a statement at 1:15 p.m. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano announced the new policy Friday morning.

“Our nation’s immigration laws must be enforced in a firm and sensible manner,” Napolitano said in a statement. “But they are not designed to be blindly enforced without consideration given to the individual circumstances of each case. Nor are they designed to remove productive young people to countries where they may not have lived or even speak the language. Discretion, which is used in so many other areas, is especially justified here.”

The new policy will not grant citizenship to children who came to the United States as illegal immigrants, but will remove the threat of deportation and grant them the right to work in the United States.

According to the Department of Homeland Security, the policy change will apply to those who came to the United States before they were 16 and who are younger than 30 if they have lived here for five years, have no criminal history, graduated from a U.S. high school or served in the military.

A memo from Napolitano ordering the "prosecutorial discretion with respect to individuals who came to the United States as children" argued that those covered by the order "only know this country as home." It said these people "lacked the intent to violate the law."

The new policy will apply to individuals who are already in deportation proceedings, the memo said.

The law will accomplish portions of the DREAM Act, which has stalled in Congress amid Republican opposition. Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), a potential vice presidential candidate, says he is working on his own version of the DREAM Act, but the Democratic version is wildly popular among Hispanics and no legislation from Congress would be expected to pass this year.

Obama has a massive lead over Mitt Romney among Hispanic voters, but criticism from immigration activists over the administration’s deportation policies has intensified in recent weeks. Earlier this week a government report showed the administration’s attempt to cut back on deportations of law-abiding illegal immigrants has had little effect.

Hispanic voters could be key in the swing states of Florida, Virginia, Colorado and Nevada, among other states.

"It's a medium-risk, high-reward strategy," said Democratic strategist Jamal Simmons. "I think you risk angering people who are upset about immigration, yes. But for a president who’s got to win Florida, Nevada, Colorado, it is definitely something that can give the Latino community something to rally around."

The new immigration announcement comes eight months after the Obama administration set an annual record for deportations by removing nearly 400,000 people who were in the country illegally in fiscal 2011.

Of the 396,906 individuals removed, more than half — 216,698 — had been previously convicted of felonies or misdemeanors, which represents a 90 percent increase in the number of criminals deported over fiscal 2008, according to the numbers released by Immigration and Customs Enforcement last October.

A spokesman for Homeland Security said the department would continues to focus its enforcement resources on "the removal of individuals who pose a national security or public safety risk, including immigrants convicted of crimes, violent criminals, felons and repeat immigration-law offenders."

"Today’s action further enhances the department’s ability to focus on these priority removals," the spokesman said.

The National Immigration Law Center (NILC), an immigration reform advocacy group, lauded Obama's announcement on Friday, saying it was evidence of his "true capacity to lead."

The group then said it was time for Congress to pass the DREAM Act.

“President Obama is showing the nation his true capacity to lead by taking the bold and courageous step to remove the fear of deportation and provide dreamers with the legal means to contribute their full potential to society," said Marielena Hincapie, the executive director for the group.

"This announcement provides real and much-needed relief now, but it is not enough. President Obama cannot provide these youth with the path to citizenship, which would allow DREAMers to participate in all sectors of civil society. We therefore renew our calls to Congress to pass the DREAM Act.”

NILC is one of the immigrant activist groups that had previously been critical of the administration's immigration policy.

"We’ve been disappointed by the administration’s record pace of deportations, and DREAMers have been among those deported," said Adela de la Torre, communications manager for the NILC, in an email to The Hill. "This is why today’s announcement is so important."

[Blake]

It's simply a change in policy.

Policy =/= law

[CosmicCowboy]

It's simply a change in policy.

Policy =/= law

uhhhhhh sorry buckwheat.

It's the job of congress to write laws. It's the job of the executive branch to enforce the laws as written.

We are a constitutional republic, not a dictatorship.

[EVAY]

I think it could backfire politically. I don't doubt that it has anything to do with anything other than election-year politics...I'm just saying I think it could backfire.

[CosmicCowboy]

Again, I'm not saying I disagree with the policy.

I'm saying it was a brazen political move to pander to hispanic voters right before the election and intentionally exceeds the authority of the executive branch. He is hoping it pisses off congress and they fight him over it and hoping hispanics are stupid enough to think the fight is over being pro/con hispanic and not over the President exceeding the constitutional authority of the executive branch.

[ElNono]

Actually, the law states that the determination for deportation should be made by an administrative immigration judge. So that is indeed a change in policy.

What's a load of bull is the "work" part. The law is clear that you cannot legally work in this country without a proper visa/residency status.

But it's Napolitano... no surprises there.

[Blake]

uhhhhhh sorry buckwheat.

It's the job of congress to write laws. It's the job of the executive branch to enforce the laws as written.

We are a constitutional republic, not a dictatorship.

Which law states that illegal immigrants must be deported, spanky?

[CosmicCowboy]

Which law states that illegal immigrants must be deported, spanky?

Existing US immigration law.

duh...

[TeyshaBlue]

lol @ spanky. :lol

[Wild Cobra]

uhhhhhh sorry buckwheat.

It's the job of congress to write laws. It's the job of the executive branch to enforce the laws as written.

We are a constitutional republic, not a dictatorship.

You forget. This guy wants to be dictator.

[Wild Cobra]

They can choose not to enforce a law, but they still can't make them legal residents without changing the law. States can still come down on employers who hire them.

This guy is a joke, but them we already knew that.

[CosmicCowboy]

They can choose not to enforce a law, but they still can't make them legal residents without changing the law. States can still come down on employers who hire them.

This guy is a joke, but them we already knew that.

Bet they let them vote, too.

He just bought another 800,000 votes with the stroke of a pen.

Hmmm....I wonder what all the unemployed legal citizens think about the executive order to legally add 800,000 illegals to the job market as their competition?

[Wild Cobra]

Bet they let them vote, too.

He just bought another 800,000 votes with the stroke of a pen.

Hmmm....I wonder what all the unemployed legal citizens think about the executive order to legally add 800,000 illegals to the job market as their competition?
Good question. If they had any honor and wanted to work instead of sitting on their asses, they would vote against him. I have a feeling that they are the ones who think these jobs are below them though. I just wish more people would realize that any piss poor job is better than having no job. It's at least 5 times easier to get a good job if you are already employed. This way, those making the hiring decisions know you aren't a flake.

[boutons_deux]

Pandering?

Like passing Medicare Advantage (with a $50B subsidy to health insurance gougers so they could compete with more efficient Medicare) and totally unfunded Medicare Part D, both during the 2003 campaign?

[Wild Cobra]

Pandering?

Like passing Medicare Advantage (with a $50B subsidy to health insurance gougers so they could compete with more efficient Medicare) and totally unfunded Medicare Part D, both during the 2003 campaign?
It was what the democrats promised and never delivered, and you libtards will never get over that hurt.

[boutons_deux]

Good question. If they had any honor and wanted to work instead of sitting on their asses,

illegal immigrants come to USA to make money, and US businessmen are thrilled to be able to exploit them, underpay them, and not pay them.

What evidence do you have, your xenophobic stance isn't evidence, that illegal immigrants don't work?

[scott]

Bet they let them vote, too.

He just bought another 800,000 votes with the stroke of a pen.

Hmmm....I wonder what all the unemployed legal citizens think about the executive order to legally add 800,000 illegals to the job market as their competition?

Yep, smart of him to lock up the votes of those 800,000 people who aren't allowed to vote.

[Blake]

Yep, smart of him to lock up the votes of those 800,000 people who aren't allowed to vote.

:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

illegal immigrants come to USA to make money, and US businessmen are thrilled to be able to exploit them, underpay them, and not pay them.
And all this is wrong.

What evidence do you have, your xenophobic stance isn't evidence, that illegal immigrants don't work?
I didn't say illegal immigrants don't work. My stance is that we should have the people here without jobs, that collect social benefits, fill those jobs. If they refuse, they lose their benefits.

We don't need to add more low skilled people to the US. It is counterproductive to growth. If employers cannot find employees at the wages offered, then they may have to increase their wages. Allowing illegals in keeps wages down.

Is it your stance to allow illegal immigration, adding to the low job skill labor pool, and keeping wages down as dictated by supply and demand economics?

[CosmicCowboy]

Yep, smart of him to lock up the votes of those 800,000 people who aren't allowed to vote.

Sure about that? We haven't seen the executive order, yet.

[Wild Cobra]

Yep, smart of him to lock up the votes of those 800,000 people who aren't allowed to vote.
---

[Blake]

Existing US immigration law.

duh...

Which you obviously didn't read up on before posting.

Per the usual.

[CosmicCowboy]

Which you obviously didn't read up on before posting.

Per the usual.

Fuck you troll.

It's a little big to cut and paste just because you intentionally asked a stupid question.

[scott]

Sure about that? We haven't seen the executive order, yet.

You're right. It's completely reasonable to assume that the executive order will include insta-citizenship for these 800,000 folks.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yep, smart of him to lock up the votes of those 800,000 people who aren't allowed to vote.

but hush limbaugh said he would ge the 800,000 votes..:lmao

[scott]

Oh except it states it won't.


The new policy will not grant citizenship to children who came to the United States as illegal immigrants, but will remove the threat of deportation and grant them the right to work in the United States.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Oh except it states it won't.

wait a minute.. you mean Wild Cobra is lying again?

taking the low road?

[scott]

What's the GOP platform on immigration these days?

[scott]

wait a minute.. you mean Wild Cobra is lying again?

taking the low road?

I usually don't read WC posts, so no... I'm not saying he has lied about anything in this thread.

[Wild Cobra]

wait a minute.. you mean Wild Cobra is lying again?

taking the low road?
What am i accused of lying about, or are you just making noise like a Glob Fly?

[Blake]

Sure about that? We haven't seen the executive order, yet.

Lolwut

[Blake]

What's the GOP platform on immigration these days?

”Obamagration won't work”

[CosmicCowboy]

You're right. It's completely reasonable to assume that the executive order will include insta-citizenship for these 800,000 folks.

I don't know how current law handles that...we will have to ask El Nono how it worked for him when he was here on his work visa...still, without voter ID and proof of citizenship to register to vote it's kind of academic, isn't it?

Scott...Don't misunderstand me...I actually agree with the policy and in fact, if I was dictator I would not only give them work visas, I would grant them full citizenship after a ten year probation period if they could show continuous employment and kept their nose clean.

That being said, I'm not dictator and neither is Obama. It is the job of Congress to write immigration law, not the executive branch.

[coyotes_geek]

What's the GOP platform on immigration these days?

Same as it is for every other issue. Obama is the devil.

[CosmicCowboy]

What's the GOP platform on immigration these days?

Something along the lines of "We can't talk about amnesty until we seal our borders"

Although I disagree with it, I kind of understand the logic. Where do you draw the line? Do you continue indefinitely to reward illegal immigrants and give them citizenship just because they were crafty enough to cross illegally and evade arrest/deportation for 5 years to meet the residency requirement for citizenship?

[coyotes_geek]

That being said, any republican who wants to call out Obama for this being nothing more than a cheap political gimmick would be correct.

[Blake]

Fuck you troll.

It's a little big to cut and paste just because you intentionally asked a stupid question.

I'm not just trolling you for the hell of it.

You're wrong. Again.

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not just trolling you for the hell of it.

You're wrong. Again.
Since when have you not been a troll?

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm not just trolling you for the hell of it.

You're wrong. Again.

Demanding I post the text of relevant US immigration law as it applies to illegal immigrants on a fucking message board is blatant fucking trolling you freaking asshole.

If you have a few weeks to waste, here is a link to the full text of all relevant US immigration laws.

http://library.uwb.edu/guides/usimmigration/USimmigrationlegislation.html

[desflood]

We are a constitutional republic, not a dictatorship.
Oh see, there it is. Right there. That's where you're wrong.

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh see, there it is. Right there. That's where you're wrong.

:wtf:wtf:wtf:wtf:wtf

[Oh, Gee!!]

this is seperation of powers at work. congress wrote the laws, and the president enforces them (policy). this is Obama's policy for enforcement on a sub-group of illegal immigrants.

[PublicOption]

Well, I am a born in San Antonio mexican-american Ron Paul supporter. Obama just secured my whole families vote.

Sorry, GOP.

LOL.

[PublicOption]

”Obamagration won't work”

:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

this is seperation of powers at work. congress wrote the laws, and the president enforces them (policy). this is Obama's policy for enforcement on a sub-group of illegal immigrants.

:lmao

smurf talking points.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, I am a born in San Antonio mexican-american Ron Paul supporter. Obama just secured my whole families vote.

Sorry, GOP.

LOL.
Interesting. The legal Mexicans I know get pissed at any mention of illegals not having the same process they had to go through, and pissed that illegals may make it here faster than their family members waiting on the legal route.

[xrayzebra]

uhhhhhh sorry buckwheat.

It's the job of congress to write laws. It's the job of the executive branch to enforce the laws as written.

We are a constitutional republic, not a dictatorship.


We are? Not since we elected a Dictaor in Chief. Barry baby! This
isn't the edict he has issued.

[coyotes_geek]

Interesting. The legal Mexicans I know get pissed at any mention of illegals not having the same process they had to go through, and pissed that illegals may make it here faster than their family members waiting on the legal route.

Don't you mean "Americans"?

[Blake]

Since when have you not been a troll?

I guess I've always been a troller.

And you? What was your start date?

[PublicOption]

Interesting. The legal Mexicans I know get pissed at any mention of illegals not having the same process they had to go through, and pissed that illegals may make it here faster than their family members waiting on the legal route.


If you see the people that Obama wants to see stay are law abiding, young people who are educated. The more educated Mexicans in the USA, the better.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you see the people that Obama wants to see stay are law abiding, young people who are educated. The more educated Mexicans in the USA, the better.

I don't necessarily disagree with the policy, I disagree with the blatant political pandering and the blatant and unconstitutional overreach of the Executive Branch.

IMHO this is a sign of clear desperation in the Obama campaign. Incompetence as well. He fired this bullet a little early.

[Oh, Gee!!]

:lmao

smurf talking points.

it's because you're an idiot who needs things explained to you like a 5 year-old.

[CosmicCowboy]

it's because you're an idiot who needs things explained to you like a 5 year-old.

Rah Rah Blue Team! Rah Rah Blue Team! Rah Rah Blue Team!...:lol

[Blake]

Demanding I post the text of relevant US immigration law as it applies to illegal immigrants on a fucking message board is blatant fucking trolling you freaking asshole.

If you have a few weeks to waste, here is a link to the full text of all relevant US immigration laws.

http://library.uwb.edu/guides/usimmigration/USimmigrationlegislation.html

I'm not demanding anything. Just a request to back up your bullshit claim.

Instead, you get all butthurt, throw out some frivolous links and tell me I should back your claim.

Per the usual.

Ftr, it didn't take me weeks to find out what the law says regarding prosecutorial discretion in deportation issues. It was just a matter of minutes.

[boutons_deux]

We are a constitutional republic, not a dictatorship.

UCA is a kleptocratic, vampire squid plutocracy, run by 1% for the 1%.

[CosmicCowboy]

it's because you're an idiot who needs things explained to you like a 5 year-old.


BTW, fuckwad, rewriting immigration law is NOT an executive branch policy prerogative.

[Blake]

I don't necessarily disagree with the policy, I disagree with the blatant political pandering and the blatant and unconstitutional overreach of the Executive Branch.

IMHO this is a sign of clear desperation in the Obama campaign. Incompetence as well. He fired this bullet a little early.

lol blatant

You're a fucking idiot.

[Oh, Gee!!]

BTW, fuckwad, rewriting immigration law is NOT an executive branch policy prerogative.

he's not re-writing anything. he is implementing his policy on execution of the law, idiot.

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL Executive order = prosecutorial discretion

[CosmicCowboy]

he's not re-writing anything. he is implementing his policy on execution of the law, idiot.

Even YOU can't be that stupid.

He is issuing an executive order to ignore the law passed by congress.

[Oh, Gee!!]

LOL Executive order = prosecutorial discretion

lol prosecutors fall within the executive branch lol

[Oh, Gee!!]

Even YOU can't be that stupid.

He is issuing an executive order to ignore the law.

it's an order to his branch on how to enforce the law

[Blake]

Even YOU can't be that stupid.

He is issuing an executive order to ignore the law passed by congress.


which law in particular?


:cry :cry stop being such a demanding troll! :cry :cry

[CosmicCowboy]

it's an order to his branch on how to enforce the law


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


http://www.watchcartoononline.com/thumbs/The-Smurfs-Episode-24--The-Purple-Smurf.jpg

Rah Rah Blue Team! Rah Rah Blue Team!

[Oh, Gee!!]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


Rah Rah Blue Team! Rah Rah Blue Team!

You say it's an unwise, stupid policy. Fine. You say it's pandering for latino votes. Fine. You say it will bite him in the ass. Fine. But it doesn't violate the seperation of powers. It doesn't make him a dictator. He's doing what he thinks is right by the powers vested in him as the president. I'm not cheering for the policy, I'm just pointing out to you that it falls within his powers as chief executive.

[CosmicCowboy]

You say it's an unwise, stupid policy. Fine. You say it's pandering for latino votes. Fine. You say it will bite him in the ass. Fine. But it doesn't violate the seperation of powers. It doesn't make him a dictator. He's doing what he thinks is right by the powers vested in him as the president. I'm not cheering for the policy, I'm just pointing out to you that it falls within his powers as chief executive.

You obviously have a reading comprehension issue. I have said in THIS THREAD TWICE that if I was dictator I would not only enact this policy but I would go even further and give the law abiding, employed undocumented aliens a ten year probation path to clear citizenship.

However I am not the dictator.

Neither is President Obama.

He has no constitutional authority to start writing and rewriting laws from the White House.

This DOES NOT fall within his power as President.

Our constitutional process may be ugly and at times disfunctional, but it is the job of congress to write laws, not the President.

[Oh, Gee!!]

This DOES NOT fall within his power as President.

Our constitutional process may be ugly and at times disfunctional, but it is the job of congress to write laws, not the President.


you'll never get it, I guess.

[CosmicCowboy]

you'll never get it, I guess.

Your blind obedience to blue team talking points?

Nope, never will.

[boutons_deux]

Cruz and Dewhurst agree: Obama immigration shift is ‘blatantly’ and ‘cravenly’ political

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-on-the-potomac/2012/06/cruz-and-dewhurst-agree-obama-immigration-shift-is-%E2%80%98blatantly%E2%80%99-and-%E2%80%98cravenly%E2%80%99-political/

Eat shit, mofos. It's called The Bully Pulpit and the power of the incumbency.

As if Repugs NEVER did anything that was blatantly, purely political (like pass anti-sharia laws).

[Blake]

Your blind obedience to blue team talking points?

Nope, never will.

where is red teams outrage about this unconstitutional overreach of the Executive Branch?

[CosmicCowboy]

where is red teams outrage about this unconstitutional overreach of the Executive Branch?

Just a statement of fact.

It was simple blatant political pandering and an unconstitutional overreach of the Executive Branch.

You can wave your blue pom poms and defend it if you want to.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

CC, I hate Obama but i think that you are being stupid and naive ont his one. This is not a whole new level. if you think that it is then you have been living under a rock. You need to think about your blue team remarks too because all I am heaing from you is "boo boo blue team."

And what law is he contravening exactly?

[coyotes_geek]

Cruz and Dewhurst agree: Obama immigration shift is ‘blatantly’ and ‘cravenly’ political

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-on-the-potomac/2012/06/cruz-and-dewhurst-agree-obama-immigration-shift-is-%E2%80%98blatantly%E2%80%99-and-%E2%80%98cravenly%E2%80%99-political/

Eat shit, mofos. It's called The Bully Pulpit and the power of the incumbency.

:cheer Yay blue team!


As if Repugs NEVER did anything that was blatantly, purely political (like pass anti-sharia laws).

democrats = republicans

[CosmicCowboy]

CC, I hate Obama but i think that you are being stupid and naive ont his one. This is not a whole new level. if you think that it is then you have been living under a rock. You need to think about your blue team remarks too because all I am heaing from you is "boo boo blue team."

And what law is he contravening exactly?

He is writing new law by authorizing work visas for existing illegal aliens...these aren't the ones playing by the rules and (pre-entry) applying and waiting for theirs. If you can find that authorization in existing law then feel free to show me.

Again, I'm not saying it's bad policy, I'm saying it was executive overreach. We will never get comprehensive immigration reform if Obama keeps poisoning the well by turning this into a political football.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He is writing new law by authorizing work visas for existing illegal aliens...these aren't the ones playing by the rules and (pre-entry) applying and waiting for theirs. If you can find that authorization in existing law then feel free to show me.

Um can you find me a law that authorizes him to take a piss?

That's not how presumption works on any level. What law is he breaking? I do not know how authorization of visas is even legislated one way or another.

If there is a law it does actually direct contravene then I guarantee you that your red team will be all over with all the lawyers they have laying about.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you don't believe me, here are OBAMA'S OWN WORDS LAST YEAR...


"With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed."

[CosmicCowboy]

Um can you find me a law that authorizes him to take a piss?

That's not how presumption works on any level. What law is he breaking? I do not know how authorization of visas is even legislated one way or another.

If there is a law it does actually direct contravene then I guarantee you that your red team will be all over with all the lawyers they have laying about.

And don't try to put me on the knee jerk red team.

Like I have said repeatedly, I am for a realistic plan that leads to amnesty for productive and law abiding illegal aliens.

This was set as a political trap. Obama knows it's an overreach, but if the Republicans fight him too hard on the overreach it will look like they are anti-hispanic. Hopefully it backfires on him. Have you noticed the *crickets* from moderate democratic congressmen today?

Remember, the Dream act FAILED under a Democrat controlled congress and senate.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If you don't believe me, here are OBAMA'S OWN WORDS LAST YEAR...

Like what?

So now YOU are citing Obama as a credible source?

Also I just read today's news and I like how you guys just leave out the context of another deadlocked congressional floor.

CC all you are doing is the political posturing that you claim they are doing. Both sides are fuckwads but you like one fuckwad better than the other. Joy.

[CosmicCowboy]

Like what?

So now YOU are citing Obama as a credible source?

Also I just read today's news and I like how you guys just leave out the context of another deadlocked congressional floor.

CC all you are doing is the political posturing that you claim they are doing. Both sides are fuckwads but you like one fuckwad better than the other. Joy.

The Dream act failed in Congress when the Democrats controlled both houses fuckwad.

[Blake]

He is writing new law by authorizing work visas for existing illegal aliens....

Why did it take you several pages to come up with this? This might actually be something to discuss.

The main point of the OP though appeared that Obama was over stepping by allowing these ”illegals” to stay......which is not even a question that the Exec Branch has the authority to grant.

Fwiw, I did find the outrage from the Reds I was asking for earlier:

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/232941-gop-new-obama-deportation-policy-violates-oath-of-office-

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Dream act failed in Congress when the Democrats controlled both houses fuckwad.

It's interesting how butthurt you have been lately. you been doing alright, holmes?

And all manner of things have 'failed' through the same political obstructionism that we have seen from both sides this entire presidency.

The dream act in its current iteration is being obstructed from being brought to a vote.

Failed is just a spin phrase. Senate GOP use of the filibuster is another way to term it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/21/AR2010092104918.html


The so-called Dream Act to grant permanent residency to immigrants who were brought to the United States as children and who have completed some time in college or in the armed forces has been a sought-after goal for Democrats, who attached the measure to an important defense spending bill. Republicans used a procedural vote to block the bill.

You have been quite the partisan hack lately. It is election season I guess.

[ElNono]

I don't know how current law handles that...we will have to ask El Nono how it worked for him when he was here on his work visa...still, without voter ID and proof of citizenship to register to vote it's kind of academic, isn't it?

Basically, both the driver's license and SS card I had while I had a work visa stated they were only valid with INS/DHS authorization. Since you require one or the other to actually register to vote, it's fairly simply to determine who's trying to illegally register.

IIRC, attempting to register to vote when you're not a citizen is considered voter fraud, a felony.

[ElNono]

He has no constitutional authority to start writing and rewriting laws from the White House.

This DOES NOT fall within his power as President.

I think where you're going wrong is in the part where he's rewriting laws... The law doesn't "mandates" deportation, IIRC. The law says that upon finding an illegal alien, authorities should start "deportation proceedings".

Now, deportation does not mean immediate expulsion from the country. Deportation is an administrative process where a prosecutor for the government requests an immigration judge for such expulsion based on certain evidence (ie: lack of proper visa, lack of evidence of citizenship). Aliens can sometimes appeal such rulings too, and even ask to be paroled into the country while such appeals are pending. Prosecutors might choose to drop cases entirely, judges might rule against expulsion. So, there's plenty of latitude as far as "the process" goes.

[ElNono]

Oh, and BTW, I completely abhor this kind of election-based bullshit. As a former legal alien, who always did everything legally, it's fucking bullshit.

[ElNono]

As far as the work permit stuff, I just can't think that's legal. That said, I'm not very familiar with that since I've always had a work visa, so I didn't have to specifically ask for a work permit. I know those exist, but not 100% sure how they're granted. You would think you're at least required to have an actual visa of some sort in order.

[ElNono]

And LOL England :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh, and BTW, I completely abhor this kind of election-based bullshit.

It seems like everyone but Fuzzy, Blake, and OhGee can agree with that.

Just too locked in on blue team rhetoric.

[Blake]

It seems like everyone but Fuzzy, Blake, and OhGee can agree with that.

Just too locked in on blue team rhetoric.

I'm not saying this to troll. I'm saying this as fact:

You're a disingenuous idiot.

[Drachen]

It seems like everyone but Fuzzy, Blake, and OhGee can agree with that.

Just too locked in on blue team rhetoric.

I am not sure that anyone disagreed with the statement that you quoted. From what I have read, their arguement was nothing more than "this action doesn't make obama a dictator"

[CosmicCowboy]

I am not sure that anyone disagreed with the statement that you quoted. From what I have read, their arguement was nothing more than "this action doesn't make obama a dictator"

My point was that it was an overreach of executive power, not that he was literally a dictator. And yes, they were defending it as if Obama was just "clarifying" an enforcement point and not blatantly politically pandering to hispanics.

And if a President can ignore our immigration laws by executive order, what other powers do you want to give him? What if a President wanted to ignore enforcement of the Civil rights act of 1964 by executive order? He would just be "clarifying" how he wanted it enforced...Would that be OK?

[Drachen]

My point was that it was an overreach of executive power, not that he was literally a dictator. And yes, they were defending it as if Obama was just "clarifying" an enforcement point and not blatantly politically pandering to hispanics.

And if a President can ignore our immigration laws by executive order, what other powers do you want to give him? What if a President wanted to ignore enforcement of the Civil rights act of 1964 by executive order? He would just be "clarifying" how he wanted it enforced...Would that be OK?

I didn't see anyone arguing that point. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. An action can, at the same time, be a shift in the enforcement of the law and completely naked political pandering.

edit: I don't have time to argue one way or another right now, so I am not trying to get into it. I just wanted to point out that you misspoke since I didn't see anyone say that this wasn't political pandering.

Here lets try an experiment: Fuzzy, Blake, et al. (set aside the constitutionality question) Do you think this action was election year pandering to the hispanic vote?

[boutons_deux]

"the Democrats controlled both houses fuckwad"

From Jan 2009, the Dems NEVER controlled both houses. Specifically, DINOs like Ben Nelson and other Blue Dog Dems kept the Dems under unConstitutional 60 Senate seats needed to block Repug filibusters, which were threatened on nearly every Dem legislation.

[CosmicCowboy]

"the Democrats controlled both houses fuckwad"

From Jan 2009, the Dems NEVER controlled both houses. Specifically, DINOs like Ben Nelson and other Blue Dog Dems kept the Dems under unConstitutional 60 Senate seats needed to block Repug filibusters, which were threatened on nearly every Dem legislation.

It wasn't just a party line vote. Democrats voted against it as well. It would have passed if they hadn't. check it out.

[Blake]

Here lets try an experiment: Fuzzy, Blake, et al. (set aside the constitutionality question) Do you think this action was election year pandering to the hispanic vote?

It seems like everyone but CC knows what my answer to this question will be.

[CosmicCowboy]

It seems like everyone but CC knows what my answer to this question will be.

All you have to do is say it and quit your bullshit attacks.

[CosmicCowboy]

I didn't see anyone arguing that point. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. An action can, at the same time, be a shift in the enforcement of the law and completely naked political pandering.

edit: I don't have time to argue one way or another right now, so I am not trying to get into it. I just wanted to point out that you misspoke since I didn't see anyone say that this wasn't political pandering.

Here lets try an experiment: Fuzzy, Blake, et al. (set aside the constitutionality question) Do you think this action was election year pandering to the hispanic vote?

Sounds fair to me.

[Blake]

All you have to do is say it

Meh, you'd just find something else to accuse me of.


quit your bullshit attacks.

You're a hypocrite and a pussy, Spanky.

Per the usual.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

he can't say it. Been chuggin that blue koolaid too long.

[mavs>spurs]

You're right. It's completely reasonable to assume that the executive order will include insta-citizenship for these 800,000 folks.

who the fuck cares about the citizenship..they will compete with young AMERICANS for AMERICAN JOBS.

I scoff at this 800,000 number. That is soooooo far from correct. I PERSONALLY know of 10-15 people this will affect..and that's in a small primarily white town. Give me a fucking break "800,000" poor widdle mexicans :cry

[mavs>spurs]

Oh, and BTW, I completely abhor this kind of election-based bullshit. As a former legal alien, who always did everything legally, it's fucking bullshit.

this. thank you.

[mavs>spurs]

This fuckwit is so out of touch with the average every day american citizen. First he says that the private sector is "doing fine." No the hell it is not doing fine. Unemployment is ridiculously high and went up a tick last month.

Now he wants to add millions of illegals to the mix? All I got to say is when November comes around, I hope they are all counted up and reflected in the unemployment numbers, jack that thing up and make the mf'er look even worse.

[Blake]

:lmao

he can't say it. Been chuggin that blue koolaid too long.

sure I can.

But I'd rather see how many more poor assumptions you will make.

[CosmicCowboy]

pathetic

[CosmicCowboy]

fucking pussy can't say it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Repeat after me...

"My Hero, Barack Obama, is shamelessly pandering to hispanics.

[Blake]

This fuckwit is so out of touch with the average every day american citizen. First he says that the private sector is "doing fine." No the hell it is not doing fine. Unemployment is ridiculously high and went up a tick last month.

Now he wants to add millions of illegals to the mix? All I got to say is when November comes around, I hope they are all counted up and reflected in the unemployment numbers, jack that thing up and make the mf'er look even worse.

What awesome jobs are illegals taking away?

[mavs>spurs]

What awesome jobs are illegals taking away?

dude i go to college with a few illegals that i know of

[Blake]

Repeat after me...

"My Hero, Barack Obama, is shamelessly pandering to hispanics.

”CosmicCowboy is hilariously stupid”

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

little pussy just can't say it.

[Blake]

dude i go to college with a few illegals that i know of

Yeah if they get a work visa, impress the employer in the job interview and take your job, I could see how that might suck.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:lol why do people act like Obama wasn't gonna dominate the Mexican vote anyway?

[Blake]

:lmao

little pussy just can't say it.

Big pussy thinks he is #winning.

[mavs>spurs]

I don't know, but I wish for once everyone on both sides of the political spectrum would come together and do what's best for this country. All this meaningless bickering is stupid, even the Dems know that Obama is a bad guy but continue to support him just out of spite.

I'm neither a democrat or a republican so maybe I'm looking at this from a different perspective.

[mavs>spurs]

:lol why do people act like Obama wasn't gonna dominate the Mexican vote anyway?

yup he just made a bad move politically..turned off a lot of voters in order to win votes that he already had.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I don't know, but I wish for once everyone on both sides of the political spectrum would come together and do what's best for this country. All this meaningless bickering is stupid, even the Dems know that Obama is a bad guy but continue to support him just out of spite.

I'm neither a democrat or a republican so maybe I'm looking at this from a different perspective.
I don't see Romney any better than Obama. Obama at least shows no interest in starting a War with Iran which is the tie breaker for me. A War in Iran would be probably the most disastrous thing that could happen to this country right now.

[Blake]

Yeah if they get a work visa, impress the employer in the job interview and take your job, I could see how that might suck.

Of course, stepping your game up is also an option

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Also, the Republican party continues to want to take the world down a path where they deny global climate change and claim it does not exist, which is something I really can't support.

[Drachen]

Sounds fair to me.


Meh, you'd just find something else to accuse me of.



You're a hypocrite and a pussy, Spanky.

Per the usual.

Little disappointed here. Oh well. I will say that this is just like all the other selective enforcement and that it is election year pandering. Imo

[Blake]

Little disappointed here.

It's disappointing that someone would ask me to prove I'm not a blue team homer before going further in the discussion.

[mavs>spurs]

Of course, stepping your game up is also an option

Why don't foreigners have to step theirs up in order to keeP me from coming illegally and taking theirs?

Alot of jobs in china I hear, go ahead and try to border hop. Let's us know what happens.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

yup he just made a bad move politically..turned off a lot of voters in order to win votes that he already had.

You haven't been paying attention is what is obvious.

Whether or not it would be successful, the GOP figureheaded by Rubio have been campaigning hard to appeal to the hispanic vote. Rubio has been floating a revised DREAM Act and the appeal has been a pretty steady refrain for the past several months.

This move in essence neuters that.

It's a slick move because if the GOP fights it then they look absolutely disingenuous and pretty much waste all those political resources.

In the end though, it just means that Obama doesn't give a shit about policy as much as he does playing politics. That's our representative democracy for you.

[Blake]

Why don't foreigners have to step theirs up in order to keeP me from coming illegally and taking theirs?

Alot of jobs in china I hear, go ahead and try to border hop. Let's us know what happens.

Yeah I know. It's tough shit if you were born on the south side of the Rio Grande.

The jobs belong to the humans born on the North side!

[mavs>spurs]

That doesn't tell me why American jobs belong to foreigners but the Same cannot be said vice versa. If there are no jobs here and I wanted To look elsewhere, there isn't a country on earth that would let me skip the process and go tomorrow and even reward me once I get there for breaking the law. How are young Americans supposed to compete
With such a handicap?

[Blake]

That doesn't tell me why American jobs belong to foreigners but the Same cannot be said vice versa. If there are no jobs here and I wanted To look elsewhere, there isn't a country on earth that would let me skip the process and go tomorrow and even reward me once I get there for breaking the law. How are young Americans supposed to compete
With such a handicap?

poor handicapped young American.... :cry

[mouse]

uhhhhhh sorry buckwheat.
.

CC raising the comedy smack bar!


:lmao

[mavs>spurs]

No rebuttal I see.

[Blake]

No rebuttal I see.

It's hard to rebutt generalizations, anecdotes and/or strawmen from other countries.

Do you have any specific story of American handicapping you are referring to?

[Blake]

CC raising the comedy smack bar!


:lmao

unintentionally

[ElNono]

This fuckwit is so out of touch with the average every day american citizen. First he says that the private sector is "doing fine." No the hell it is not doing fine. Unemployment is ridiculously high and went up a tick last month.

Now he wants to add millions of illegals to the mix? All I got to say is when November comes around, I hope they are all counted up and reflected in the unemployment numbers, jack that thing up and make the mf'er look even worse.

Actually, if you're cynic enough, you could see this move as a boost to the private sector... there's nothing the private sector likes more than hiring cheap ass labor with zero rights...

[mavs>spurs]

It's hard to rebutt generalizations, anecdotes and/or strawmen from other countries.

Do you have any specific story of American handicapping you are referring to?

Yeah all the millions of Americans out of work who can't simply border hop to solve all their problems.

[ElNono]

That doesn't tell me why American jobs belong to foreigners but the Same cannot be said vice versa. If there are no jobs here and I wanted To look elsewhere, there isn't a country on earth that would let me skip the process and go tomorrow and even reward me once I get there for breaking the law.

You might want to check with Argentina, tbh

[mavs>spurs]

You Obama supporters also ignore the constitutionality of such a move. I don't like open borders, rewarding lawbreakers, unconstitutional wars and drones in American skies reporting back to the fusion centers who are spying on you I'm sorry.

[ElNono]

BTW, I don't think getting a job in China is really that complicated. Some US companies firing people here in the US are aggressively hiring in China (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-17/living/americans.move.to.china_1_china-chinese-politics-beijing-and-shanghai?_s=PM:LIVING).

The problem is lowering your standard of living to those of the Chinese... and upgrading your work ethic to 14hrs/day shifts for pennies on the dollar...

[mavs>spurs]

You might want to check with Argentina, tbh

Just curious how long does the process To get a work visa/residency last in Argentina?

[Blake]

Yeah all the millions of Americans out of work who can't simply border hop to solve all their problems.

so the illegal aliens are going to take the jobs that are held by the out-of-work Americans

neat.

[ElNono]

Just curious how long does the process To get a work visa/residency last in Argentina?

No idea. I don't even know people even bother... once you're in, I doubt anybody is kicking you out. Heck, place got packed with Bolivian and Paraguayan when their economy was in the shitter. You're not going to be asked to show papers for anything... half the population probably don't pay taxes anyways.

[mavs>spurs]

BTW, I don't think getting a job in China is really that complicated. Some US companies firing people here in the US are aggressively hiring in China (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-17/living/americans.move.to.china_1_china-chinese-politics-beijing-and-shanghai?_s=PM:LIVING).

The problem is lowering your standard of living to those of the Chinese... and upgrading your work ethic to 14hrs/day shits for pennies on the dollar...

Things are also cheaper there to compensate for lower pay. According to theory, a big Mac in America (or any standardized item) should cost roughly the same anywhere (adjusted for exchange rates)
and in a lot of cases it holds true. Chinese standard of living isn't so bad in the big cities and is rapidly improving.

[mavs>spurs]

so the illegal aliens are going to take the jobs that are held by the out-of-work Americans

neat.

They're going to compete with out of work Americans for scarce jobs and further suppress wages.

[ElNono]

Things are also cheaper there to compensate for lower pay. According to theory, a big Mac in America (or any standardized item) should cost roughly the same anywhere and in a lot of cases it holds true. Chinese standard of living isn't so bad in the big cities and is rapidly improving.

Basic stuff like food and clothes might be cheaper, but anything else is probably simply unaffordable. That's why piracy of everything is rampant there.

[Blake]

They're going to compete with out of work Americans for scarce jobs and further suppress wages.

have you read who it is that the Obama admin is talking about giving work visas to, or are you assuming some Mexican pole vaulter is going to make it over the wall and take your accounting job?

[mavs>spurs]

Basic stuff like food and clothes might be cheaper, but anything else is probably simply unaffordable. That's why piracy of everything is rampant there.

Cheap food and free stuff sounds good to me :tu

Oh wait I can't just ignore their borders and show up tomorrow :cry

[mouse]

unintentionally

How can you post a funny comment on the www unless you thought about it first?

[mavs>spurs]

have you read who it is that the Obama admin is talking about giving work visas to, or are you assuming some Mexican pole vaulter is going to make it over the wall and take your accounting job?

Children of illegal immigrants who have been educated via the American tax payer and in many cases go to college, maybe even studying finance like me in the case of a couple I know.

[ElNono]

Cheap food and free stuff sounds good to me :tu

Oh wait I can't just ignore their borders and show up tomorrow :cry

why not? half or more of the illegals in this country come in with a valid tourist visa and overstay... I doubt the Chinese would deny you entry if you tell them you're going to visit...

[mavs>spurs]

Only difference is I wouldn't be rewarded upon getting caught tbh they'd out my ass in jail and most illegals never had a visa anyway they just border hopped

[Blake]

Children of illegal immigrants who have been educated via the American tax payer and in many cases go to college, maybe even studying finance like me in the case of a couple I know.

if we've already spent tax dollars educating them, then why do you want to throw away that investment?

if that kid is better at crunching numbers than you, then I don't give a shit if you were born on July 4th in front of the liberty bell, I'm hiring the that kid.

Step up your game or step aside, imo.

[mouse]

Step up your game or step aside, imo.


You may have outed a TRoll.

[mavs>spurs]

if we've already spent tax dollars educating them, then why do you want to throw away that investment?

if that kid is better at crunching numbers than you, then I don't give a shit if you were born on July 4th in front of the liberty bell, I'm hiring the that kid.

Step up your game or step aside, imo.


I'm not an accountant though. Finance thinking about going back for geology I kind of don't want to work in the corporate world forever tbh. Dok is the accountant, I guess you're confused.

But I agree that smart kids who are going to be good at what they study should apply for a student visa and get the job upon graduation, except that's kind of already happening maybe the lawbreakers should have taken notice.

[Wild Cobra]

Don't you mean "Americans"?
Legal resident aliens.

[Blake]

I'm not an accountant though. Finance thinking about going back for geology I kind of don't want to work in the corporate world forever tbh. Dok is the accountant, I guess you're confused.

neat


But I agree that smart kids who are going to be good at what they study should apply for a student visa and get the job upon graduation, except that's kind of already happening maybe the lawbreakers should have taken notice.

I'm saying I'd rather hire the smarter illegal kids that want to be productive members of society that some whiner that has a sense of entitlement.

[mouse]

:lmao

Obama prematurely pulled the the Green card ripcord!

[mavs>spurs]

neat



I'm saying I'd rather hire the smarter illegal kids that want to be productive members of society that some whiner that has a sense of entitlement.

:lol the illegals aren't smarter, not on average outside of a few anomalies. You're being extremely unpatriotic and not very neighborly to your fellow Americans.

[Blake]

:lol the illegals aren't smarter...


How are young Americans supposed to compete
With such a handicap?

[mavs>spurs]

Illegals work cheaper

[Blake]

Illegals work cheaper

I've been looking for cheap Finance Geology labor.

Thanks for the tip

[mavs>spurs]

I've been looking for cheap Finance Geology labor.

Thanks for the tip

what about the ones who go to college and will compete with me for jobs?

it's not right, not with 8.2% (admitted) unemployment, i just don't agree that this is the right thing to do especially under executive order side stepping congress. this is an issue that needs to be brought before congress.

[Blake]

what about the ones who go to college and will compete with me for jobs?

You just said they aren't smarter.

How many of the 800k do you think will be competing with you for a job?

[mavs>spurs]

first of all, i don't agree on the 800k number. i think its totally ridiculous and a slap in the face.

you telling me i personally know 20 or so of the only 800k in existence? thats like, 3% of the people i know. doesn't seem likely that a huge portion of these people would be right here in my town, people i grew up with and went to school with.

the number is a lot bigger.

[boutons_deux]

illegals didn't cause, won't worsen, the unemployment crisis, which is completely due to the Banksters' Great (Jobs) Depression.


Immigrant Entrepreneurship On The Rise In US


Immigrants are assuming a bigger role on Main Street, according to a new report from the Fiscal Policy Institute's Immigration Research Initiative.

Immigrants now make up 18 percent of small-business owners in the United States, a six percent increase from 20 years ago.

The report found that 37 percent of immigrant entrepreneurs own a restaurant, 49 percent own grocery stores and 54 percent own laundry and dry cleaning services.

"With immigrants making up one in six of all small business owners, a climate that is hostile to immigrants is also a climate that is bad for business," said Frank Mauro, executive director of the Fiscal Policy Institute in a statement.

The report highlights the fact that immigrant businesses are no longer concentrated near traditional entry points and have spread far beyond metropolitan areas. Additionally, the breadth of cultures and countries of origin has grown, though immigrants from the Middle East, Asia and Southern Europe have the highest rates of US business ownership.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/14/immigrants-more-likely-to-become-entrepreneurs_n_1597188.html?view=print&comm_ref=false

I M M I G R A N T S M A L L B U S I N E S S
O W N E R S

A S I G N I F I C A N T A N D G R O W I N G
P A R T O F T H E E C O N O M Y

http://www.fiscalpolicy.org/immigrant-small-business-owners-FPI-20120614.pdf

Just like all waves of immigrants in the past 200 years, the immigrants scrap hard to get a handhold.

Small companies are job creators, while UCA and its greedy mgmt and capitalists are (US) job destroyers.

[boutons_deux]

No doubt the Repugs will attack this move, probably legally, losing significant Latino votes.

Repugs have and will continue to alienate the women vote with anti-abortion, anti-contraception, anti-Paycheck-Equality stances and votes.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

I think it could backfire politically. I don't doubt that it has anything to do with anything other than election-year politics...I'm just saying I think it could backfire.

How's it going to backfire? The people angry with this were Obama NO votes anyway. The people happy with this were likely on the fence, and are likely to skew Obama now. It was a brilliant piece of political strategy that played on the basic dissonance of the GOP wanting tough immigration AND Hispanic votes. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. I like it because no one was insulted, belittled, and almost no money was spent, and it's a huge win. If the GOP tries to edge this way, they lose Tea Party. If they don't, they lose Hispanic votes.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

first of all, i don't agree on the 800k number. i think its totally ridiculous and a slap in the face.

you telling me i personally know 20 or so of the only 800k in existence? thats like, 3% of the people i know. doesn't seem likely that a huge portion of these people would be right here in my town, people i grew up with and went to school with.

the number is a lot bigger.

Or your math skills suck. 20 out of 800,000 is no where NEAR 3%. It's not even in the ballpark of being in the vicinity. One percent would be 8,000, so three percent is 24,000, fool.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Or your math skills suck. 20 out of 800,000 is no where NEAR 3%. It's not even in the ballpark of being in the vicinity. One percent would be 8,000, so three percent is 24,000, fool.

his side is not very bright

[boutons_deux]

here ya go, wing nuts, right wing assholes, tea baggers, Repug Congresscritters got their pitchforks and torches out for

IMPEACHMENT!

No sooner had President Barack Obama announced his decision to suspend deportations of peaceful DREAMers than Republicans responded with calls for his impeachment.

Twitter and a simple search revealed that a vast number of self-identified Republicans, Tea Party activists, and/or Romney supporters were calling for impeachment. Not Congressional action to undo the decision or to pass their own version of immigration reform -- but Congressional action to impeach the President of the United States for refusing to deport the noncitizen children of illegal immigrants.

The blogoshpere was replete with calls for impeachment over President Obama's "illegal" action. Then one by one GOP lawmakers and Romney supporters came out with statements calling the president's decision "illegal" -- a dogwhistle to the impeachment crowd.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/287-124/11944-a-time-to-choose-dream-or-impeach

[Wild Cobra Kai]

here ya go, wing nuts, right wing assholes, tea baggers, Repug Congresscritters got their pitchforks and torches out for

IMPEACHMENT!

No sooner had President Barack Obama announced his decision to suspend deportations of peaceful DREAMers than Republicans responded with calls for his impeachment.

Twitter and a simple search revealed that a vast number of self-identified Republicans, Tea Party activists, and/or Romney supporters were calling for impeachment. Not Congressional action to undo the decision or to pass their own version of immigration reform -- but Congressional action to impeach the President of the United States for refusing to deport the noncitizen children of illegal immigrants.

The blogoshpere was replete with calls for impeachment over President Obama's "illegal" action. Then one by one GOP lawmakers and Romney supporters came out with statements calling the president's decision "illegal" -- a dogwhistle to the impeachment crowd.

http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/287-124/11944-a-time-to-choose-dream-or-impeach

:lol Talk about a blatant, naked political move.

[mavs>spurs]

Or your math skills suck. 20 out of 800,000 is no where NEAR 3%. It's not even in the ballpark of being in the vicinity. One percent would be 8,000, so three percent is 24,000, fool.

Apparently you can't read, and that's not my fault dumbfuck.

3% of the people that I PERSONALLY know. That would be wildly disproportionate to the supposed 800k out of 330 million citizens plus 20 million illegals (some estimates are 30 million)

3% of 350 mil is 10.5 million

i really doubt my personal experience is THAT skewed, considering i don't live in a border town or a high mexican area. ya'll in the older crowd just don't know how bad it is, since immigration has accelerated in my generation.

[mavs>spurs]

illegals didn't cause, won't worsen, the unemployment crisis, which is completely due to the Banksters' Great (Jobs) Depression.


Immigrant Entrepreneurship On The Rise In US


Immigrants are assuming a bigger role on Main Street, according to a new report from the Fiscal Policy Institute's Immigration Research Initiative.

Immigrants now make up 18 percent of small-business owners in the United States, a six percent increase from 20 years ago.

The report found that 37 percent of immigrant entrepreneurs own a restaurant, 49 percent own grocery stores and 54 percent own laundry and dry cleaning services.

"With immigrants making up one in six of all small business owners, a climate that is hostile to immigrants is also a climate that is bad for business," said Frank Mauro, executive director of the Fiscal Policy Institute in a statement.

The report highlights the fact that immigrant businesses are no longer concentrated near traditional entry points and have spread far beyond metropolitan areas. Additionally, the breadth of cultures and countries of origin has grown, though immigrants from the Middle East, Asia and Southern Europe have the highest rates of US business ownership.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/14/immigrants-more-likely-to-become-entrepreneurs_n_1597188.html?view=print&comm_ref=false

I M M I G R A N T S M A L L B U S I N E S S
O W N E R S

A S I G N I F I C A N T A N D G R O W I N G
P A R T O F T H E E C O N O M Y

http://www.fiscalpolicy.org/immigrant-small-business-owners-FPI-20120614.pdf

Just like all waves of immigrants in the past 200 years, the immigrants scrap hard to get a handhold.

Small companies are job creators, while UCA and its greedy mgmt and capitalists are (US) job destroyers.

IMMIGRANTS. you know, people from india and china who file the necessary paperwork and come here legally more often than not because it would be harder for them than simply border hopping to get in. you know, smarter people many times with educations.

:lol it isn't the illegal be@ners starting the businesses, it's abdul starting up some gas stations and Ching with his sushi restaurant :rollin

[CosmicCowboy]

there are a lot of hispanic entrepreneurs around here. They are HUGE in lawn care and tree trimming.

[Wild Cobra]

there are a lot of hispanic entrepreneurs around here. They are HUGE in lawn care and tree trimming.
Some are even legal I bet.

[CosmicCowboy]

Some are even legal I bet.

The boss MAYBE.

[Wild Cobra]

The boss MAYBE.
LOL...

Exactly what I was thinking.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

there are a lot of hispanic entrepreneurs around here. They are HUGE in lawn care and tree trimming.


Some are even legal I bet.


The boss MAYBE.


LOL...

Exactly what I was thinking.

If you need to understand why the Hispanics never warmed to the GOP, see above.

[Gino]

Total election year pandering. Nothing more.

[mavs>spurs]

well 6 women whom i know quite well will be benefiting greatly from this, as well as a handful of other acquaintances and people i know through them who all have college degrees and were waiting for the opportunity to use them. a school teacher, a nurse, a finance major, management major, and an aerospace engineer just to name a few.

"this will only benefit cotton pickers and construction workers, nobody wanted those jobs anyway :cry"

just dumb. i hope none of you have college age kids.

[ElNono]

well 6 women whom i know quite well will be benefiting greatly from this, as well as a handful of other acquaintances and people i know through them who all have college degrees and were waiting for the opportunity to use them. a school teacher, a nurse, a finance major, management major, and an aerospace engineer just to name a few.

"this will only benefit cotton pickers and construction workers, nobody wanted those jobs anyway :cry"

just dumb. i hope none of you have college age kids.

Don't you know Mexicans can only cut grass?

[PublicOption]

http://images.travelpod.com/tw_slides/ta00/d47/ecc/mexican-flag-cabo-san-lucas.jpg

[mouse]

Don't you know Mexicans can only cut grass?

Not true, they can transport it across the border.

[Sense]

:lol @ GOP supporters generalizing the "Dreamers". You guys are thinking amnesty, when in reality this is about the Dream Act youth, which was really separated from all that amnesty talk to try to get it to pass. I like this move for a lot of reasons, and this will definitely help Obama with the latino vote. He's been criticized for the deportation number increase, and because he really hasn't delivered on what he's promised. While this is a political move, the Latinos will take it.

And no, the "Dreamers" aren't here to "cut grass" or "pick cotton".. but most of the people benefiting are probably going to work and try college, some already have degrees and will be able to use them with the work permit. From what I've seen, while most are celebrating, this is a short term solution for a long term problem. Most of these dreamers have been here for more than a decade waiting for the Dream Act to pass. Gusty call, considering the number of ignorant Americans that are going to criticize this.

[mavs>spurs]

^criticizing it isn't "ignorant." the dude totally sidestepped congress to do whatever he wants, and this isn't the first time. this country was founded on a system of checks and balances so that things are voted on by our elected officials. if the executive branch can just do whatever the hell it wants, then our checks and balance system that has worked for hundreds of years will become extinct. this constant erosion of the constitution has got to stop.

for 2, we have ridiculous unemployment and our own college students can't get jobs. we have a huge student loan bubble that is threatening to burst. meanwhile obama says that "the private sector is fine" and has the fucking AUDACITY to add potentially millions more to the workforce, when millions of americans are already out of work. it is his JOB to serve the interests of AMERICAN CITIZENS before those of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. what the hell is wrong with you?

[Wild Cobra]

I'm not against the idea of amnesty itself. I'm against talking about amnesty, and making people believe it will happen. It doesn't matter if it happens or not, the talk about it does several negative things. I say we do the best we can to stop illegal immigration first. If we give one more reason for illegals to try to make it here, then we increase the problems rather than solve them. Until we can get a handle on illegal immigration, I say NO. Once we have actual control of immigration, then you would be surprised at how much amnesty I'm willing to talk about.

[Sense]

^criticizing it isn't "ignorant." the dude totally sidestepped congress to do whatever he wants, and this isn't the first time. this country was founded on a system of checks and balances so that things are voted on by our elected officials. if the executive branch can just do whatever the hell it wants, then our checks and balance system that has worked for hundreds of years will become extinct. this constant erosion of the constitution has got to stop.

for 2, we have ridiculous unemployment and our own college students can't get jobs. we have a huge student loan bubble that is threatening to burst. meanwhile obama says that "the private sector is fine" and has the fucking AUDACITY to add potentially millions more to the workforce, when millions of americans are already out of work. it is his JOB to serve the interests of AMERICAN CITIZENS before those of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. what the hell is wrong with you?


I guess I should have been more specific... the majority of Americans that will criticize this won't be thinking about "citizen's jobs". Let's be honest here, America is full of ignorant people.. the responses I saw from the media outlets was disgraceful. I could compare the responses Obama got from what he said about gay marriage, to this. I can understand any level headed American disputing the cons, heck I'm sure the dreamers would rather have people disputing jobs and laws, etc.. rather than saying " SEND THEM BACK TO MEXICO.. or IF THEY'RE SO SMART THEY CAN HELP THEIR COUNTRY".. "THEY ARE CRIMINALS".

Obama pretty much made all those people "happy" for a minute by deporting more than any other president ever.. but all of a sudden he's giving out work permits to a small portion of the immigrants and people are crying? If anything, this group deserved that much, and I'm pretty sure this is going to help the economy. Also, he hasn't really said this is going to be permanent. Giving out work permits isn't like giving out citizenship.


I'm not against the idea of amnesty itself. I'm against talking about amnesty, and making people believe it will happen. It doesn't matter if it happens or not, the talk about it does several negative things. I say we do the best we can to stop illegal immigration first. If we give one more reason for illegals to try to make it here, then we increase the problems rather than solve them. Until we can get a handle on illegal immigration, I say NO. Once we have actual control of immigration, then you would be surprised at how much amnesty I'm willing to talk about.

Personally, I don't see amnesty ever happening. This move doesn't scream amnesty at all, while it does give little hope.. I think for the most part the latino population is happy it happened to the dream act eligible youth.

I don't think you can "fix" the borders. I just don't see illegal immigration ever stopping unless the process to obtain legal residency in the United States becomes easier. If you can somehow make it easier for people to get residency in the United States, I can see illegal immigration slowing down. People are not going to be waiting 10 years when you have all those problems in Mexico going on. You can't just snap your fingers and expect desperate Mexicans to stop looking for a better life. It's too hard to come here legally.

[mavs>spurs]

but all of a sudden he's giving out work permits to a small portion of the immigrants and people are crying? If anything, this group deserved that much, and I'm pretty sure this is going to help the economy. Also, he hasn't really said this is going to be permanent. Giving out work permits isn't like giving out citizenship.

this is what i just disagree with, i know TOO many people personally who are affected by this for it to just be a mere 800,000 people. i was reading on one of the big outlets earlier today i forget which one ive read so much, saying that they don't actually know how many it could be and that it could very well be in the millions.

[Borat Sagyidev]

IMMIGRANTS. you know, people from india and china who file the necessary paperwork and come here legally more often than not because it would be harder for them than simply border hopping to get in. you know, smarter people many times with educations.

:lol it isn't the illegal be@ners starting the businesses, it's abdul starting up some gas stations and Ching with his sushi restaurant :rollin


there are a lot of hispanic entrepreneurs around here. They are HUGE in lawn care and tree trimming.


Some are even legal I bet.


The boss MAYBE.


LOL...

Exactly what I was thinking.


well 6 women whom i know quite well will be benefiting greatly from this, as well as a handful of other acquaintances and people i know through them who all have college degrees and were waiting for the opportunity to use them. a school teacher, a nurse, a finance major, management major, and an aerospace engineer just to name a few.

"this will only benefit cotton pickers and construction workers, nobody wanted those jobs anyway :cry"

just dumb. i hope none of you have college age kids.


I see a bunch of racists and sub par citizens scared of a little competition.

You guys spend a good amount of time posting and judging others while being largely negative contributors to society.

That brings up a good question, why aren't we continually testing people for citizenship credentials?

[Sense]

this is what i just disagree with, i know TOO many people personally who are affected by this for it to just be a mere 800,000 people. i was reading on one of the big outlets earlier today i forget which one ive read so much, saying that they don't actually know how many it could be and that it could very well be in the millions.

No I actually believe it is 800,000.

While I know there are more dream act eligible youth out there, way more.. this plan is going to be for people under 30. Which, honestly I find a bit odd.. There are a lot of 30+ year olds that have been waiting for the dream act for a very long time, and that "rule" is the reason you keep seeing 800,000.

[Sense]

I see a bunch of racists and sub par citizens scared of a little competition.

You guys spend a good amount of time posting and judging others while being largely negative contributors to society.

That brings up a good question, why aren't we continually testing people for citizenship credentials?

I wouldn't go that far :lol but I do agree to a certain extent. A lot of these dreamers have suffered a lot to try to get a piece of the pie millions of people take for granted. You throw the "you weren't born here!" shit around it's really showing fear. I know a lot of dreamers that speak better English than your regular joes, and know more about the country and they'll admit it (the joes that is).

[mavs>spurs]

I see a bunch of racists and sub par citizens scared of a little competition.

You guys spend a good amount of time posting and judging others while being largely negative contributors to society.

That brings up a good question, why aren't we continually testing people for citizenship credentials?

you've always been a wetback apologist, dude. it's evident in your posts that you weren't born in america and don't care about american citizens. we should help out our own before worrying about the interests of illegals, that's all i'm saying. if they're really smart, they can still get student visa's and go to school. these are the average joe's were talking about here, competing with our american average joes. america shouldn't place the well being of foreigners over it's own man, that's just plain wrong. there are a lot of good, above average intelligence young american college grads who don't have jobs, and this move doesn't help them. it's not all "negative contributors" as you say, you just have an axe to grind.

[Borat Sagyidev]

I wouldn't go that far :lol but I do agree to a certain extent. A lot of these dreamers have suffered a lot to try to get a piece of the pie millions of people take for granted. You throw the "you weren't born here!" shit around it's really showing fear. I know a lot of dreamers that speak better English than your regular joes, and know more about the country and they'll admit it (the joes that is).

If you agree with me, why wouldn't you go that far?

I served with people in Afghanistan who would be considered "anchor babies" and worthy of deportation by some of these people given their ridiculous criteria.

I'll take it further... I'm conflicted shooting a Taliban insurgent over some of these racist trash. At least the Taliban is on the over side of the world.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/heroes/jose.gutierrez.html

[Borat Sagyidev]

you've always been a wetback apologist, dude. it's evident in your posts that you weren't born in america and don't care about american citizens. we should help out our own before worrying about the interests of illegals, that's all i'm saying. if they're really smart, they can still get student visa's and go to school. these are the average joe's were talking about here, competing with our american average joes. america shouldn't place the well being of foreigners over it's own man, that's just plain wrong. there are a lot of good, above average intelligence young american college grads who don't have jobs, and this move doesn't help them. it's not all "negative contributors" as you say, you just have an axe to grind.

First of all,
I am born in this country, with traceable family going back centuries.

Average Joes, raised up in America are pretty much American in my book.

You use the term "Wetback" , claim" they aren't as smart "...and I have the axe to grind.:rollin

[mavs>spurs]

i said take 2 comparable people:

both are young, ambitious college kids. they may not be super geniuses trying to become a surgeon where they are guaranteed an immediate job, but hard workers nonetheless. say they are majored in something like accounting, or economics or teaching. one is a wetback, one is a US citizen. the illegal knows he or she isn't authorized to be here. the illegal knows that his or her education is being subsidized by the legal students parents who actually pay taxes. the legal student (if white) can't get any scholarships because they are told that the quota for their demographic has been met, while the wetback gets all kinds of assistance. With unemployment at 8.2%, now the legal student learns he or she has to compete with not only their legal classmates, but now an influx of wetbacks who are even more privileged than themselves and will benefit from affirmative action putting the white student at a disadvantage. How do you think that's fair?

[mavs>spurs]

I'll give you a hint, government stands to serve us. Not vice versa. They are the public SERVANTS of the taxpayer. The taxpayer's children should be taken care of before those of the lawbreakers. That's just the truth. We currently have 8.2% unemployment, this isn't fair to the tax payers and their children. This bastard government is supposed to serve us, not vice versa. It's time they remembered what their job is, and making political moves that hurt young Americans in order to secure votes from a certain bloc isn't part of the job description.

[Sense]

i said take 2 comparable people:

both are young, ambitious college kids. they may not be super geniuses trying to become a surgeon where they are guaranteed an immediate job, but hard workers nonetheless. say they are majored in something like accounting, or economics or teaching. one is a wetback, one is a US citizen. the illegal knows he or she isn't authorized to be here. the illegal knows that his or her education is being subsidized by the legal students parents who actually pay taxes. the legal student (if white) can't get any scholarships because they are told that the quota for their demographic has been met, while the wetback gets all kinds of assistance. With unemployment at 8.2%, now the legal student learns he or she has to compete with not only their legal classmates, but now an influx of wetbacks who are even more privileged than themselves and will benefit from affirmative action putting the white student at a disadvantage. How do you think that's fair?

:lol for a second there I thought you understood this issue. A lot of the dreamers came to the United States legally, but stayed illegally.. so the term wetback doesn't fare well with this discussion. A lot of the dreamers had no clue they were here illegally. A lot of this goes back to how flawed our immigration system is. Undocumented students have to pay a lot of money to go to school, if they want to even try to go school. A lot of them don't have a choice and can't even attempt going to school, because they have to work on a shitty job to try to pay for it or just to survive. The people that DO get the help, well... let's just say that the country is better off having them stay. If this plan ends up happening, this is going to be the first time anyone that has had a degree will be able to use it. Why are you blaming these students for something colleges are doing? If you think undocumented students are getting more help and have a better chance at a job than citizen you're out of your mind. It really all goes back to fear.


You can keep saying "criminals" and "they should have come here legally" etc. and it will keep proving you're ignorant and have no idea how nearly impossible it is to do that. Dreamers were raised here, all they know is the United States and I'd say almost all of them are great citizens. I really doubt you'd be able to tell them apart in the street.

Now if you were to be deported to idk.. Guatemala tomorrow, and you were told that you stayed here illegally all this time.. what would you think of the issue? Oh and please don't say, "I'd go back to Guatemala immediately" shit cuz that's just trolling. The fact is you'd be shitting your pants.

[mavs>spurs]

Except I personally know people who do get all kinds of assistance, more than anything I ever got. I'm happy for most of them, at least the ones I consider friends but at the same time it still sort of irks me and I know it isn't right. Here I am owing 18k, and the only thing I ever got was a measly little school academic scholarship which pays for nothing. They all got more than I did for being brown, and I'm the one with the grades and the smarts.

Where's my affirmative action? That's all I want to know.

[Sense]

Except I personally know people who do get all kinds of assistance, more than anything I ever got. I'm happy for most of them, at least the ones I consider friends but at the same time it still sort of irks me and I know it isn't right. Here I am owing 18k, and the only thing I ever got was a measly little school academic scholarship which pays for nothing. They all got more than I did for being brown, and I'm the one with the grades and the smarts.

Where's my affirmative action? That's all I want to know.

So you're saying your dumber illegal friends got more assistance for being brown than you did for being smart and a citizen?

Who are you trying to fool?

[mavs>spurs]

Here I am, wanting to go back to school for a degree in geology and my best bet without taking on any more debt is to get a job in the finance department with one of the local energy companies which really limits me to just a few companies.

While people I know got entire nursing degrees and owe nothing, even though their father works construction and supports a wife and 3 kids none of whom work. Where does the money come from? She could easily turn around and go right back to school for a masters if she wanted, starting out debt free, where is the money coming from.

Questions that need answers.

[Sense]

Here I am, wanting to go back to school for a degree in geology and my best bet without taking on any more debt is to get a job in the finance department with one of the local energy companies which really limits me to just a few companies.

While people I know got entire nursing degrees and owe nothing, even though their father works construction and supports a wife and 3 kids none of whom work. Where does the money come from? She could easily turn around and go right back to school for a masters if she wanted, starting out debt free, where is the money coming from.

Questions that need answers.

:lol those are good questions, because I've never heard of such thing.

[mavs>spurs]

So you're saying your dumber illegal friends got more assistance for being brown than you did for being smart and a citizen?

you're damn right, it's true. they have all sorts of ways for claiming dependants who don't exist and getting all sorts of money back and such. they scam the system and i'm not really up to date on all the ways it's done but i do know enough of them to know that it happens.

you know what's funny? i started putting native american as my ethnicity and got all sorts of calls back suddenly for interviews, they seemed disappointed when i showed up for the interview haha. this may sound funny to some of you in the older crowd, but young white males are the most prosecuted group in america currently courtesy of all this progressive liberal ideology.

[Sense]

you're damn right, it's true. they have all sorts of ways for claiming dependants who don't exist and getting all sorts of money back and such. they scam the system and i'm not really up to date on all the ways it's done but i do know enough of them to know that it happens.

you know what's funny? i started putting native american as my ethnicity and got all sorts of calls back suddenly for interviews, they seemed disappointed when i showed up for the interview haha. this may sound funny to some of you in the older crowd, but young white males are the most prosecuted group in america currently courtesy of all this progressive liberal ideology.

I'm 24 bro.

:lol @ native american.. the irony.

As far as the fraud.. shit I'm obviously against that, but I really don't think you can generalize the dreamers with that crowd. It's true that a lot of them have to do whatever they can to finish school and try to get a job because they can't seem to get it. How they do it? I don't know, a lot of the times there's loops, other times I'm guessing they will have to commit a crime. But as far as the majority, they've all been wanting to do this shit the right way from the get go. They've been here for so many years they don't want to risk jail or deportation over stupid shit like that.

And if they do risk it, it probably means they lost hope... because over the last 11+ years nothing has been done to help them, so in a way I can understand it, even though I don't agree with it. All of this assuming you're not full of shit, which is highly unlikely.

[mavs>spurs]

If only my great grandmother had not been ashamed of her heritage (indians were spat on and treated way worse than even blacks were back then) and kept track of her tribal number..I could get all kinds of cool stuff from the nanny state like everyone else. I had a friend who got all of his community college paid for free (he dropped out after that and never made it to university) and got all kinds of other free stuff like laptops and even a school clothes allowance :lol

This is all while I had to work a shitty minimum wage job to pay for my classes there out of pocket. And he was no more "native american" than I am, his aunt went through the trouble of contacting the Bureau of Indian Affairs and sorting everything out.

I just don't see how he was any more worthy of all that aid (or even a full blooded native american for that matter) than I am. Basically in his case it all went to waste.

Don't get me started on the scholarships for latinos.

[Wild Cobra]

Really a pisser to see someone else have entitlements that we don't get, isn't it?

[mavs>spurs]

And if they do risk it, it probably means they lost hope... because over the last 11+ years nothing has been done to help them, so in a way I can understand it, even though I don't agree with it. All of this assuming you're not full of shit, which is highly unlikely.

Instead of sitting around waiting for a magical solution, they should have gotten in line like everyone else. This country can only support so much immigration at a time, you can never allow population growth to outpace job growth or you get unemployment. The government doesn't keep people out just to be big fat meanies, it's because we can only support so many and every country on earth has similar policies.

Rewarding them for this just sets a bad precedent and Congress didn't even vote on this and do it the legal way. Obama basically said fuck the constitution, I do what I want like he did in Libya.

[mavs>spurs]

Really a pisser to see someone else have entitlements that we don't get, isn't it?

Yes it is, which is why Obama will not be getting my vote in November.

[Sense]

Instead of sitting around waiting for a magical solution, they should have gotten in line like everyone else. This country can only support so much immigration at a time, you can never allow population growth to outpace job growth or you get unemployment. The government doesn't keep people out just to be big fat meanies, it's because we can only support so many and every country on earth has similar policies.

Rewarding them for this just sets a bad precedent and Congress didn't even vote on this and do it the legal way. Obama basically said fuck the constitution, I do what I want like he did in Libya.
Sitting around waiting? Today there's more than a million dreamers who are in limbo. Meaning? You can't drive, go to school, work, and it's even hard as shit to get a bank account. What do you expect them to do? Seriously?

in line? :lol you still don't get the whole flawed immigration system thing do you? People have been waiting up to 20 years to try to come here legally. That's just not an option when you see Mexico evolve into a fucking war zone. The thing is, Obama knows no one is going back, there's no way.. and even if he spends millions deporting people that could help the country, they're going to come back.. because this is all they know, might as well have them work and pay taxes while they are here. They will boost the economy, and he gets his latino vote. He can't lose. You're not rewarding shit really, a reward would be citizenship... which I believe should be earned, but they need that opportunity.

You don't qualify for this plan if you have a felony, 1 serious misdemeanor, or 3 minor misdemeanors.. I'm pretty sure you're getting decent residents out of this.



Yes it is, which is why Obama will not be getting my vote in November.

I'm sure he won't need it.

[ElNono]

The whole issue is much more complicated than "he got the entitlement that I can't qualify for :cry"... not surprised a simpleton went that route...

On one hand I don't agree with Sense that the flaw in the immigration system is that there's much more demand than quotas. That is exactly how it should work.

On the other hand, and particularly with these kids, we already as taxpayers made the education investment. Might as well try to recoup some of that money by letting them apply such education towards a job, etc.

This whole thing wouldn't be a problem if the country could effectively control it's borders. But it can't, and that's where the real problem lies. This policy won't change that.

[boutons_deux]

Yes it is, which is why Obama will not be getting my vote in November.

anybody who has seen your shit posts could never imagine you voting for a Dem candidate.

[boutons_deux]

Obama Goes Long on Immigration, GOP Goes Crazy


In a Twitter post, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said the decision "avoids dealing with Congress and the American people instead of fixing a broken immigration system once and for all... This is a classic Barack Obama move of choosing politics over leadership," Graham's tweet said.

You know what, Huckleberry? Tough. You and your party have demagogued this issue to the point where, in the last presidential campaign, John McCain had to disavow his own immigration bill. Who in the hell is the president supposed to lead?

This guy?

House Judiciary Committee Chairman Lamar Smith, R-Texas, called the change a "decision to grant amnesty to potentially millions of illegal immigrants... Many illegal immigrants will falsely claim they came here as children and the federal government has no way to check whether their claims are true," Smith said in a statement. "And once these illegal immigrants are granted deferred action, they can then apply for a work permit, which the administration routinely grants 90% of the time."

Or, maybe, this guy, the nuttiest member of the House not named Allen West....

"I will tell you that — I'm not without experience on this — I'm prepared to bring a suit and seek a court order to stop implementation of this policy," King said.

And somebody stole the strawberries, too.

Steve King is the leader of your party on this issue, Huckleberry. Live with it.

(Ooops, I may have overrated Steve King here. Congressman West, checking in from beautiful downtown Paranoid Palms, Florida.)

(And here's a guy from Tucker Carlson's little vanity publication, acting like a jackass.)

It has the added benefit of being a decent policy move, too, considering it was the only one that the Republican banana factory in the Congress left to him. The president is simply acting as the head of the Executive Branch — the same principle under which John Yoo once assured us would allow C-Plus Augustus to crush a child's testicles if he saw the need to do so. What he has done is excise the specter of existential dread from the lives of 800,000 young people, most of whom (presumably) will be electorally grateful. That's enough alone for cynical bastids like me. But it's also a brave and decent thing to do, which seems to have occurred to (among others) Senator Marco Rubio, who'd like to have a political future after he hits 45, and who probably looks at a party speaking through Steve King on immigration and sees that evaporating before his eyes...

"There is broad support for the idea that we should figure out a way to help kids who are undocumented through no fault of their own, but there is also broad consensus that it should be done in a way that does not encourage illegal immigration in the future," he said. "This is a difficult balance to strike, one that this new policy, imposed by executive order, will make harder to achieve in the long run."

Only if your party continues to pander to the flock of loons, senator. You know what's happening here. The Stupid ice had to be cracked on this issue, and the president's done that. Ball's in your court now.

Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/obama-dream-act-9750199#ixzz1y5QmokBv

Repugs a gwine nutz when that nasty n!gg@ in the WHITE House kicks them in the nutz. :lol


"residency" isn't amnesty nor citizenship.

Repugs typically lying their asses off to demagogue/inflame/rouse the bubba rabble, aka, old white "Christian" male haters.

[mavs>spurs]

this is what's to come without rule of law

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/17/joe-arpaios-arrests-six-year-old_n_1603883.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Caim%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D170552


Joe Arpaio's Office Arrests 6-Year-Old Suspected Undocumented Immigrant
Posted: 06/17/2012 1:50 pm Updated: 06/17/2012 10:28 pm

FOLLOW: Arizona Politics, Immigration, Video, Joe Arpaio Illegal Immigrants, Joe Arpaio's Arrests Six Year Old, Joe Arpaio Arrests Child, Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, Crime News

On the same day that President Obama announced a policy that will make it easier for young undocumented immigrants to remain in the United States, Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio's office arrested a 6-year-old girl suspected of coming to America illegally.

The Arizona Republic reports that the girl was with 15 other suspected undocumented immigrants who were traveling to the Midwest and northeast United States, according to Chris Hegstrom, spokesman for the Sheriff's Office.

"She's been turned over to ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) to try to determine where she's from. She told us she's from El Salvador. That's what she told us," Hegstrom said.

KPHO reports that all the suspects paid between $300 and $3,500 to be illegally smuggled into the U.S., according to the Sheriff's office.

The arrests came Friday night, the same day that Obama announced his administration would not deport young undocumented immigrants under certain circumstances.

Last week, Arpaio told ABC15 that his office still plans to arrest undocumented immigrants with the same fervor that has made him a nationally known law enforcement figure.

"I think people from Mexico are now going to feel, 'Hey come on in and we'll get by with it.' But it won't happen in this county. They will still be arrested," Arpaio said.

[Sense]

this is what's to come without rule of law

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/17/joe-arpaios-arrests-six-year-old_n_1603883.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Caim%7Cdl5%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D170552

:lmao


it's funny that what you got from that article was "look they're already coming"..


Not once did that ever pop in my head as I was reading that. Ridiculous.

[ElNono]

:lmao

it's funny that what you got from that article was "look they're already coming"..

Not once did that ever pop in my head as I was reading that. Ridiculous.

Plus that kid doesn't qualify for the new policy... she's as good as gone...

[mavs>spurs]

Plus that kid doesn't qualify for the new policy... she's as good as gone...

no but if she didnt get caught crossing she could always just wait a while and then qualify :lol

[ElNono]

no but if she didnt get caught crossing she could always just wait a while and then qualify :lol

After completing high school and being in the country 5+ years...

At which point we've spent enough tax dollars on her where is it such a good idea to ship her ass back to El Salvador?

[mavs>spurs]

After completing high school and being in the country 5+ years...

At which point we've spent enough tax dollars on her where is it such a good idea to ship her ass back to El Salvador?

i'm all for not allowing illegal immigration in the first place, that's my stance

[mavs>spurs]

After completing high school and being in the country 5+ years...

At which point we've spent enough tax dollars on her where is it such a good idea to ship her ass back to El Salvador?

and you can see where this provides a massive incentive to do just that

[ElNono]

i'm all for not allowing illegal immigration in the first place, that's my stance

and you can see where this provides a massive incentive to do just that

The incentive is in the rest of Latin America being a shithole... I mean these people were willing to put their life on the line to cross over even without these "incentives"...

But I agree that the actual problem is border control... if you're catching them when they're already in here, you're too late.

[mavs>spurs]

^nah man, if there were no jobs they simply wouldn't come. it should be a felony to hire an undocumented worker, the problem would disappear overnight. people can't survive without working to eat.

It really is that simple.

But the left wants to baby them for the latino vote.

The right wants them here to exploit the cheap labor.

So nothing is actually done about it, both sides just play fight all day whenever they both know damn well it's preventable.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

If only my great grandmother had not been ashamed of her heritage (indians were spat on and treated way worse than even blacks were back then) and kept track of her tribal number..I could get all kinds of cool stuff from the nanny state like everyone else. I had a friend who got all of his community college paid for free (he dropped out after that and never made it to university) and got all kinds of other free stuff like laptops and even a school clothes allowance :lol

This is all while I had to work a shitty minimum wage job to pay for my classes there out of pocket. And he was no more "native american" than I am, his aunt went through the trouble of contacting the Bureau of Indian Affairs and sorting everything out.

I just don't see how he was any more worthy of all that aid (or even a full blooded native american for that matter) than I am. Basically in his case it all went to waste.

Don't get me started on the scholarships for latinos.

So, basically, you're too fucking lazy to do the same. Got it.

He's not more worthy, ass. He's more motivated. You, on the other hand, expect things to be handed to you on a platter. Granny doesn't remember her BIA number? Boo hoo. I'll sit here and cry about people more motivated than I am getting what I want, but don't want to work for.

[Borat Sagyidev]

^nah man, if there were no jobs they simply wouldn't come. it should be a felony to hire an undocumented worker, the problem would disappear overnight. people can't survive without working to eat.

It really is that simple.

But the left wants to baby them for the latino vote.

The right wants them here to exploit the cheap labor.

So nothing is actually done about it, both sides just play fight all day whenever they both know damn well it's preventable.

quite a bit easier to prevent illegal employment than deport millions...

Funny how this always turns into a scapegoat against undocumented immigrants.

[mavs>spurs]

He? :lol his aunt did all the work for her kids and hooked him and his sister up while she was at it.

asshole.

[ElNono]

^nah man, if there were no jobs they simply wouldn't come. it should be a felony to hire an undocumented worker, the problem would disappear overnight. people can't survive without working to eat.

It really is that simple.

But the left wants to baby them for the latino vote.

The right wants them here to exploit the cheap labor.

So nothing is actually done about it, both sides just play fight all day whenever they both know damn well it's preventable.

Well, I agree there's no political will to really deal with the problem... a country that spends trillions waging wars being unable to close down it's own borders doesn't sound believable...

[mavs>spurs]

that's the thing, it isn't believable. we are a country lead by lunatics who believe that we are all stupid cattle.

and u know what's worse? they're right. they get away with it fucking all.

[ElNono]

that's the thing, it isn't believable. we are a country lead by lunatics who believe that we are all stupid cattle.

and u know what's worse? they're right. they get away with it fucking all.

yet, people risk it all, even their lives, to come over here... I guess it's really worse wherever they come from...

[mavs>spurs]

they're coming here for what little bit of table scraps are left, sure. it doesn't mean that america hasn't declined significantly.

[ElNono]

BTW, just funny to see the red team bitching... didn't Saint Reagan signed off a massive amnesty back in '86?

[ElNono]

they're coming here for what little bit of table scraps are left, sure. it doesn't mean that america hasn't declined significantly.

Well, I lived on the other side of the fence for a while, and this is still a great country, decline or not...

[Borat Sagyidev]

If only my great grandmother had not been ashamed of her heritage (indians were spat on and treated way worse than even blacks were back then) and kept track of her tribal number..I could get all kinds of cool stuff from the nanny state like everyone else. I had a friend who got all of his community college paid for free (he dropped out after that and never made it to university) and got all kinds of other free stuff like laptops and even a school clothes allowance :lol

This is all while I had to work a shitty minimum wage job to pay for my classes there out of pocket. And he was no more "native american" than I am, his aunt went through the trouble of contacting the Bureau of Indian Affairs and sorting everything out.

I just don't see how he was any more worthy of all that aid (or even a full blooded native american for that matter) than I am. Basically in his case it all went to waste.

Don't get me started on the scholarships for latinos.

If you gamed the system, you would just be just as pathetic. You're acting like it's hopeless when it really isn't.

I worked minimum wage jobs in High School, craploads of people do. People who game the system don't learn life skills and it almost always catches up to them. Hell it is even catching up to Elizabeth Warren

There are graduate programs from certain majors that will pay you to go to school.

I have a full blooded Apache intern right now, also serving in the reserves to pay for school. I'm not aware of any of the aid you speak of getting directed at him, not that it wouldn't be right.

Native American history is downright shameful in this country and no price can make it right.

You might want to explore your options.

[Sense]

Plus that kid doesn't qualify for the new policy... she's as good as gone...

Exactly, what's next? Trying to turn different situations into something they're not to make this move look like blasphemy.

[mavs>spurs]

Exactly, what's next? Trying to turn different situations into something they're not to make this move look like blasphemy.

Lol you really don't get it? for every one that got caught like her, millions more will continue piling over the border and will slip through the cracks, live here for years as many have done before them, and then eventually apply for work permits and amnesty stay.

it's even more of an incentive to come illegally, now you can just wait a while then do it all legally.

[ElNono]

AFAIK, it's no amnesty. None of these guys are getting residency or a path to citizenship.

It's just a temporary band aid where they won't get deported, presumably, at least as long as this administration is in power...

[mavs>spurs]

:lol they don't care about citizenship they just want to work, it's still a huge incentive

[ElNono]

:lol they don't care about citizenship they just want to work, it's still a huge incentive

I'm not sure about that. I would say people that has lived here for 5-10+ years and want to stay would really like to have a path towards legality. This "policy" isn't it though. But then again, both parties talk a lot about "Immigration reform", but they never do shit about it.

[ElNono]

Romney knocks 'stopgap' immigration order, won't say whether he'd overturn it

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/17/romney-knocks-topgap-immigration-order-wont-say-whether-hed-overturn-it/?test=latestnews#ixzz1y7otygdT

:lol

[ElNono]

dp

[boutons_deux]

we are all stupid cattle.

yep, and Repugs and "Christians" want to herd the kids into charter schools, aka right wing indoctrination centers, so they can dumb the kids down with anti-science, anti-Muslim, Biblical bullshit, because they know a populace as dumb as the US populace is easy prey upon and keep the 1% in eternal power. They sure as hell don't care about instilling critical thinking in the independent minds.

[boutons_deux]

Even this blind squirrel realizes he has to capitulate to HUSSEIN's touch down buzzer beater, when he knows his team of insane assholes has lost to a superior player.

Top GOP Pundit Bill Kristol Praises Obama Immigration Order As ‘The Right Thing To Do’


KRISTOL: I think its a sensible policy. I think it would be much better if that were the law of the land, and I think the president’s pushing the edges of prosecutorial discretion in saying we’re not going to enforce a law in order to leave these people in the country. But I think it’s the right thing to do, actually.


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/06/17/501020/top-gop-pundit-bill-kristol-praises-obama-immigration-order-as-the-right-thing-to-do/

[boutons_deux]

Romney Repeatedly Refuses To Say Whether He Would Undo New Obama Immigration Policy

SCHIEFFER: “[W]ould you repeal [Obama's immigration] order if you became president?” …

ROMNEY: “This is something Congress has been working on, and I thought we were about to see some proposals brought forward by Senator Marco Rubio and by Democrat senators, but the President jumped in and said I’m going to take this action … [H]e was president for the last three and a half years and did nothing on immigration. Two years he had a Democrat House and Senate, did nothing of a permanent or long-term basis. What I would do, is I’d make sure that by coming into office, I would work with Congress to put in place a long-term solution for the children of those that have come here illegally.” …

SCHIEFFER: “But would you repeal this?” …

ROMNEY: “[M]y anticipation is I’d come into office and say we need to get this done, on a long-term basis, not this kind of stop-gap measure. What the president did, he should have worked on this years ago, if he felt seriously about this he should have taken action when he had a Democrat House and Senate, but he didn’t. He saves these sort of things until four and a half months before the general election.” …

In the Republican primaries, Romney’s position on immigration — and particuarly DREAM-eligible youth — was much clearer. He relentlessly attacked Gov. Rick Perry for passing a version of the DREAM Act in Texas. Romney also promised to veto the DREAM Act. His preferred solution for undocumented immigrants was to make their lives so miserable they would “self-deport.”

In an interview on Friday, Kris Kobach, an immigration advisor to the Romney campaign, told ThinkProgress that the new Obama policy was “illegal.” Another Romney advisor told CNN that Romney’s position was “the same” as President Obama.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/06/17/501004/romney-repeatedly-refuses-to-say-whether-he-would-undo-new-obama-immigration-policy/

Gecko and his team gagging on HUSSEIN's hard, huge black dick. :lol

"he should have worked on this years ago".

If immigration were truly important as policy, rather than as rabble-rousing, racist, vote-getter, the Repugs would have done something 2001-2008, but they did nothing effective.

[TeyshaBlue]

yep, and Repugs and "Christians" want to herd the kids into charter schools, aka right wing indoctrination centers, so they can dumb the kids down with anti-science, anti-Muslim, Biblical bullshit, because they know a populace as dumb as the US populace is easy prey upon and keep the 1% in eternal power. They sure as hell don't care about instilling critical thinking in the independent minds.

This post is rich in Vitamin I.

[boutons_deux]

This post is rich in Vitamin I.

This post by Boutons stalker is rich in Vitamin E(mpty)

[TeyshaBlue]

lol @ stalker. Lighten up, Francis.

[boutons_deux]

Obama's immigration move wins support in battleground states

WASHINGTON — President Obama’s decision to extend administrative relief to an estimated 800,000 young illegal immigrants has won favor with Latino voters in key battleground states, according to a new poll.

The Latino Decisions survey found that Obama’s move had wiped out an earlier “enthusiasm deficit” among Hispanic voters over the administration’s deportation policies. By contrast, the poll found that Latino voters were sharply opposed to Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s call for illegal immigrants to “self-deport.”

Voters in five states with significant portions of Latino voters — Florida, Colorado, Nevada, Virginia and Arizona — were asked about Obama’s new policy of halting deportations and offering temporary work permits to some illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. before they were 16, lived here for at least five years and have clean records.

Forty-nine percent of the Latino voters surveyed said Obama’s move made them more enthusiastic about the president, compared with 14% who were less enthusiastic. Thirty-four percent said it would have no effect on their attitude toward Obama.

That “enthusiasm advantage” of 35 percentage points compares with a 19-point deficit in a survey earlier this year, when Latino voters were asked about the high level of deportations of immigrants under the Obama administration.

http://mobile.chicagotribune.com/p.p?m=b&a=rp&id=2289454&postId=2289454&postUserId=54&sessionToken=&catId=7570&curAbsIndex=1&resultsUrl=DID%3D6%26DFCL%3D1000%26DSB%3Drank%2523 desc%26DBFQ%3DuserId%253A54%26DFC%3Dcat1%252Ccat2% 252Ccat3%26DL.w%3D%26DL.d%3D10%26DQ%3DsectionId%25 3A7570%26DPS%3D0%26DPL%3D3

======

I'm sure there are plenty of independents upgrading their attitude toward HUSSEIN after this profoundly HUMANITARIAN and SYMPATHETIC move because they are sick and tired of the Repug/racist/xenophobia haters hiding behind hard-core, punitive, sociopathic legalisms.

[Sense]

:lol they don't care about citizenship they just want to work, it's still a huge incentive

:lmao

You clearly know nothing about "they".

[ChumpDumper]

I'm glad Sheriff Joe kept that six year old from taking m>s's job.

[mavs>spurs]

I'm glad Sheriff Joe kept that six year old from taking m>s's job.

yup i'm glad all 15 of em got deported, fuck those disgusting shameless people

[Sense]

I'm glad Sheriff Joe kept that six year old from taking m>s's job.

That 6 year old would have gotten more college help at 6 than m>s tbh.

[Blake]

yup i'm glad all 15 of em got deported, fuck those disgusting shameless people

Kudos to Sheriff Joe for keeping the American dream American.

and by American, I of course mean Middle North America.

The South North America dream is to not get beheaded by the cartel.

[ChumpDumper]

yup i'm glad all 15 of em got deported, fuck those disgusting shameless peopleWhy are they disgusting and shameless?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I do not like immigration for the same reason that I do not like the Keynesian model for compounding growth ad infinitum and for the same reason that I do not like the notion of procreation as virtue.

this notion that we can just keep on expanding forever should have ended over 100 years ago yet we keep on getting more and more people and more and more centralization of wealth and control. All immigration does is expand and dilute our side of that margin.

[Wild Cobra Kai]

He? :lol his aunt did all the work for her kids and hooked him and his sister up while she was at it.

asshole.

Yet, you know it can be done, and you just complain.

[AFBlue]

Obama's immigration move wins support in battleground states

WASHINGTON — President Obama’s decision to extend administrative relief to an estimated 800,000 young illegal immigrants has won favor with Latino voters in key battleground states, according to a new poll.

The Latino Decisions survey found that Obama’s move had wiped out an earlier “enthusiasm deficit” among Hispanic voters over the administration’s deportation policies. By contrast, the poll found that Latino voters were sharply opposed to Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s call for illegal immigrants to “self-deport.”

Voters in five states with significant portions of Latino voters — Florida, Colorado, Nevada, Virginia and Arizona — were asked about Obama’s new policy of halting deportations and offering temporary work permits to some illegal immigrants who came to the U.S. before they were 16, lived here for at least five years and have clean records.

Forty-nine percent of the Latino voters surveyed said Obama’s move made them more enthusiastic about the president, compared with 14% who were less enthusiastic. Thirty-four percent said it would have no effect on their attitude toward Obama.

That “enthusiasm advantage” of 35 percentage points compares with a 19-point deficit in a survey earlier this year, when Latino voters were asked about the high level of deportations of immigrants under the Obama administration.

http://mobile.chicagotribune.com/p.p?m=b&a=rp&id=2289454&postId=2289454&postUserId=54&sessionToken=&catId=7570&curAbsIndex=1&resultsUrl=DID%3D6%26DFCL%3D1000%26DSB%3Drank%2523 desc%26DBFQ%3DuserId%253A54%26DFC%3Dcat1%252Ccat2% 252Ccat3%26DL.w%3D%26DL.d%3D10%26DQ%3DsectionId%25 3A7570%26DPS%3D0%26DPL%3D3

======

I'm sure there are plenty of independents upgrading their attitude toward HUSSEIN after this profoundly HUMANITARIAN and SYMPATHETIC move because they are sick and tired of the Repug/racist/xenophobia haters hiding behind hard-core, punitive, sociopathic legalisms.

Are you suprised this political stunt worked? I mean, who would say it's a good policy to deport young adults who came here not of their own free will and have attempted to make something of themselves by going to college or joining the military?

I think the Republican counterpoint should be two-fold...

1. Obama is stretching his executive authority, which is a common theme of his presidency.

2. This shows his failure as a collaborative leader with his inability to influence real, comprehensive immigration reform.

[boutons_deux]

"Obama is stretching his executive authority, which is a common theme of his presidency."

was NO PROBLEM when dubya and dickhead were doing it, why do Repugs object now?

"collaborative"

G M A F B. The Repugs don't collaborate with their enemies list. 100% obtructionist.

eg, Obama gave away tons on ACA to the Repugs demands, and not one voted for it.

Same with REPUG TARP.

"collaborative" :lol :lol :lol :lol

"stunt", but Repugs were all for the 2003 election year REPUG stunts of paying for, unfunded, deficit-deepening, seniors-pandering Prescription Drug coverage and Medicare Advantage.

[AFBlue]

"Obama is stretching his executive authority, which is a common theme of his presidency."

was NO PROBLEM when dubya and dickhead were doing it, why do Repugs object now?

"collaborative"

G M A F B. The Repugs don't collaborate with their enemies list. 100% obtructionist.

eg, Obama gave away tons on ACA to the Repugs demands, and not one voted for it.

Same with REPUG TARP.

"collaborative" :lol :lol :lol :lol

"stunt", but Repugs were all for the 2003 election year REPUG stunts of paying for, unfunded, deficit-deepening, seniors-pandering Prescription Drug coverage and Medicare Advantage.

I'm not even going to counterpoint, because everything you said about Republicans is true and it's why they lost in 2008. But, this election won't be about Republicans...it'll be about Obama record of massive debt, ineffective economic stimulus, controversial healthcare law, and continual growth of government in size and influence.

He may actually overcome all that, but the "blame Bush/republicans" talking point won't play this time around.

[ElNono]

I think the Republican counterpoint should be two-fold...

1. Obama is stretching his executive authority, which is a common theme of his presidency.

2. This shows his failure as a collaborative leader with his inability to influence real, comprehensive immigration reform.

The problem with these two are:

1. The expansion of executive power was one of the main traits of the previous administration. Pretty hypocritical to start pointing fingers now that this administration is using it. Perhaps Yoo can write a new episode on unitary executive power denouncing what he was defending just 4 years ago.

2. The DREAM act was re-introduced in 2009, 2010 (where it was heavily modified to appease to Republican demands, yet it was still filibustered) and 2011, where, again, Republicans withdrew their votes.

It's obvious that even if Republicans agree with immigration reform, they would rather not pass it on a Democrat administration, where it can be seen as a victory or triumph for the administration.

As scott pointed out earlier in the thread:


What's the GOP platform on immigration these days?