Report: Dodds admits courting Notre Dame

[Blake]

” No, the Big 12 isn't planning on expanding just yet. That doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't welcome Notre Dame, though.

Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds told CBSSports.com on Tuesday that conference representatives have spoken with the Irish as far back as August 2010 about moving the athletic department's Olympic sports to the Big 12.

"Notre Dame has options," Dodds said. "I think they love their position. I certainly think they can continue to do what they're doing and do it well and be a major player. But they have options.

"We've talked to Notre Dame about the Big 12 ... They could put some football here [by playing a few non-conference games against Big 12 opponents]."...

http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-football/post/_/id/6693/report-dodds-admits-courting-nd

[Vito Corleone]

If there is a Big 12 network in the future, having Notre Dame in it would make up for the loss of Texas as part of it.

However

I'm sure ND is working on their own network and if they want to make that work, it is going to have to be in the Big 12.

[DMX7]

Yeah, I doubt Tech would want their football program to be part of a Big XII network. They're too full of themselves for something like that.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Notre Dame is probably past its peak as an independent football entity. It certainly can continue down that route, but the largess from a relatively desperate and therefore spendthrift NBC could be running out since the Irish consistently suck compared to what they are getting paid. ND might want to find a good conference home while they still have their choice.

[coyotes_geek]

If there is a Big 12 network in the future, having Notre Dame in it would make up for the loss of Texas as part of it.

However

I'm sure ND is working on their own network and if they want to make that work, it is going to have to be in the Big 12.

ND already has their own network. It's called NBC.

[coyotes_geek]

I think Notre Dame is probably past its peak as an independent football entity. It certainly can continue down that route, but the largess from a relatively desperate and therefore spendthrift NBC could be running out since the Irish consistently suck compared to what they are getting paid. ND might want to find a good conference home while they still have their choice.

Looks like the NBC-ND contract runs through 2015. Doubtful they'd make a move until after that runs out.

If/when they do make a move, it would be a shock if it were to any conference other than the B1G.

Big 12 landing them is an absolute long shot, but they still have to make an effort. It makes sense that Dodds would be trying to court them.

[DesignatedT]

If the B1G wants Notre Dame than they get Notre Dame. Assuming ND is going to join a conference.

[ATX_Horn]

If the B1G wants Notre Dame than they get Notre Dame. Assuming ND is going to join a conference.

The B1G has always wanted Notre Dame. ND is not a slam dunk to the
B1G even if they were forced to join a conference.

[coyotes_geek]

The B1G has always wanted Notre Dame.

True.


ND is not a slam dunk to the
B1G even if they were forced to join a conference.

It's a slam dunk.

[Blake]

I don't think it's a slam dunk. Maybe a free throw.

[coyotes_geek]

A Manu free throw. Certainly not a playoff Tiago Splitter free throw.

[Vito Corleone]

If the B1G wants Notre Dame than they get Notre Dame. Assuming ND is going to join a conference.

There are some good ND posters on the Rivals site that have a good pulse on how ND feels about joining a conference.

According to them.

1. ND Faculty are all for joining the B1G, the B1G equates to joining the CIC and that fits right in with their desire to become more of a research institution.

2. Alumni are all pretty happy with being independent and if it is possible they would rather keep it that way in football.

3. Alumni are also pretty solid that if they had to join a conferece they don't join the B1G. One simple reason. It would regionalize them to the B1G footprint and that is something they don't want. They feel like they need to keep this persona of being a national brand moving them to a conference outside the B1G footprint will help to keep that national appeal.

4. They realize they need to keep up with national recruiting which means keeping strong ties to the Southeast, Texas and California. No matter what they know they have a presents in the North East and the Rust belt states, but that isn't enough when you are ND. They need greater access to the recruiting hotbeds.

5. ND has always lived by their own rules, when they partnered with NBC it was huge and sent shockwaves throughout the whole NCAA. Most was just air, because ND has never had the success some felt they would have as a result. The kicker that tilts ND away from the B1G is the idea that joining the B1G they would give up more revenue than they would get back. In the eyes of the Irish fans, they bring more food to the dinner table than Indiana or Perdue does so why does everyone get the same size plate.

ND is talking to Texas because Texas felt the same way in the Big 12 (as did Nebraska, A$M, Oklahoma, and other) this is why they all voted for unequal revenue every time it came up.

ND wants to be rewarded for being ND, not for being another nameless face in the B1G. The Big 12 is the only conference that will allow them to keep NBC and possibly their own network. This puts the B1G and the Big 12 on equal footing.

Everything we talk about is all dependent upon what happenes with the playoff system. If being independent locks them out then I would put my money on the Big 12 over the B1G. If it doesn't then look for them to stay independent.

[BevoBoom]

CIC will be major reason why (Fightin Catholics will not join B1G and NBC will throw "Coffers of CASH" for ND tv rights. The payment will exceed what they would get from B1G network.

[NFO]

The B1G has always wanted Notre Dame.

The B1G has turned down a Notre Dame application before (twice), once being around 1906 and the other in 1926.

The B1G would take ND now in a heartbeat, but it won't happen unless ND is forced to join a conference and even then there are other options for ND so while IF ND had to join a conference the B1G would be the favorite, but probably not by much.

[Vito Corleone]

The only thing giving the B1G and sort of advantage is the CIC and that is not as huge for a school like ND as one might think.

Notre Dame is not a research institution so they really are not losing much when it comes to the CIC.

The real question comes when one asks the question. Do they want to be a research school moving forward? If they answer yes, (which seems to be the case) then joining the CIC moves them in the fast lane to making that happen. If the CIC advantage is not there then the B1G becomes a much lower option. The fact is there are greater advantages to joining the Big 12 than any other conference.

The Big 12 offers greater avenues for more revenue but the schools they associate with are lower academic standing than they would like (excluding Texas). The B1G gives them lower revenue but the schools in that conf are higher academic standing. ACC is the same as the B1G but the issues with the ACC are the same as the B1G as well.

It really all comes down to one thing, CIC, do they want in or not. If yes than the B1G, if no than the Big 12 is their clear cut leader.

[DesignatedT]

IF anything happens soon it will be Notre Dame joining a conference without football. Which is whatever. :td to partial members.

[Blake]

The only thing giving the B1G and sort of advantage is the CIC and that is not as huge for a school like ND as one might think.


Geography would be the bigger advantage

[Vito Corleone]

IF anything happens soon it will be Notre Dame joining a conference without football. Which is whatever. :td to partial members.

The Big 12 rumor is that they join without football but would give the Big 12 4 games a year for conference mbrs with one being an all the time game with Texas. More than likely that would replace a$m on Thanksgiving.

Also hear as an enticement, there might be a second always on game with FSU.

[MajorMike]

Lots of noise today about ND in B12. They are set to meet all week in DC next week about the final BCS product. The solution is either going to be a straight top, a top 4 based solely on conf champs, a hybrid based upon 2 or 3 conf champs and then 1 or 2 highest ranked at large teams, or a selection committee much like the NCAA March Madness. ND is invited to these talks along with the other conf commishes.

ND realizes that the way they do business now has long been more monetarily beneficial, however NBC ratings are dying as NBC has no other college football programming to surround it with, their contract will likely not be renewed for the same type dollars when it runs out in 2015 and all the TV money is going to conf TV packages. At one time ND had THE contract with NBC at over 1Mil per game, but as the confs are now getting 20+Mil per season, these numbers pale in comparison. NBC will not up the money to be competitive with the money they could get in B12.

Additionally, with the fact that conf championships may somehow play a part in the final solution, this would automatically exclude ND. When the BCS was originally conceived, ND was a yearly power and had to be included somehow. Now they aren't and many of the confs resent how ND gets special privileges. Therefore VERY unlikely any special clauses to include ND in the top 4 will be included. The current clause says ND automatically gets in the BCS with 9 wins. They have only had 3 seasons of the entire BCS era with 9 wins. In those years they were ranked 10, 5, and 11. They have been obliterated each BCS bowl game they have been in. They will not get any special treatment in the new BCS format, as no one believes they have done anything to deserve special treatment. 9 wins is 'easier' in today’s format, as they now have 12 games vs. the 11 they had when the BCS was started. If anything, they may up it to say ND has to have 10 wins to get in, which they have only done twice since BCS began.

Suffice it to say, ND is starting to realize where the ball is rolling (towards confs) and will have a better shot at being in the BCS (which is the goal - the cash cow) being in a conf. They will get more money in a conf. They will be on networks that promote college football and not just on ND game. B12 gives them the ability to sell their 3rd tier rights, which they can still do to NBC and will most likely get a LARGE amount for a few 3rd tier rights to ND/SC, ND/Mich, etc. There is also additional B12 Champ Game money.

One of ND's main hang-ups is not the independent life, per se, as it is losing revenue from the major historic rivalries. If ND comes, they want to still play as many of these games as possible, but they won’t be able to keep them all, such as possibly the service academies. ALSO, ND wants to have a one of their perm rivals in the other div one of the marquee schools (uo, UT, FSU) which obviously FSU wants, as well. If ND comes, it would be a 14 team league, meaning 6 in div games, 2 rotating cross-div games and 1 perm cross-div rivalry game. It may end up being that if FSU/ND are in the same div, they have to fight over who gets UT as a perm rival, which is, in reality, what they both want. B12 wants to placate FSU by giving them anything they want in the 12-team deal, but ND will get any and everything they want in a 14-team deal, which FSU wouldn’t' be happy about.

The likely deal being brokered and negotiated will call for FSU/Clem to start playing FB in B12 in 2014, ND's Olympic sports to transition in 2014-2015 and ND to start playing FB in the B12 2015-2016, which would involve a 4th team to become #14. ND wants some say and some play in that process.

People can pose and posture like Dr. Tom did and say this or that may be about academics, but it is now, and will always be from now on, all about the benjamins. ND puts millions of their FB dollars directly into academics, so to them the two are inseparable. With the FB money go the academics. Furthermore, in the B10/1, ND would just be just another fish in the bucket academically. In the B12, they would be the undisputed leader academically.

The future of college FB will not have a place for an independent, historically great but recently average, historically pampered for no real good reason, team playing the service academies and a few scrubs from other confs annually. ND is going to be in need of a conf and the B12 is the flavor of the day.

[Blake]

It'll also be interesting to see how long BYU can stay independent

[Vito Corleone]

I'm interested to see what the Pac does, it's not like there are a ton of great universities out west that they can pick and choose from like out east. BYU would be a natural choice but fe-kal and Stanturd blocked them last go around.

[DesignatedT]

So Texas is still calling all the shots. I see nothings changed

Glad were gone :tu

[yavozerb]

So Texas is still calling all the shots. I see nothings changed

Glad were gone :tu

If the Big 12 can replace ATM with ND on Thanksginving day in a couple of years, many UT and CFB fans in general will also be glad...Just my opinion

[benefactor]

If the Big 12 can replace ATM with ND on Thanksginving day in a couple of years, many UT and CFB fans in general will also be glad...Just my opinion
Yup...and Aggie fan will still be getting their annual prison treatment by LSU.

[ChumpDumper]

Man, if the Big 14 turns out to have FSU, Clemson, Notre Dame and BYU they'll be sitting pretty.

I'm surprised Aggie is such a socialist at heart.

[Vito Corleone]

So Texas is still calling all the shots. I see nothings changed

Glad were gone :tu

So are we.

When Daddy owns the house, daddy makes the rules.

Your new house has a daddy, and it still isn't you. Welcome to the wonderful world of Alabama and Florida calling all the shots. Now take your seat behind behind Ole Miss, just in front of Miss State

[Vito Corleone]

Man, if the Big 14 turns out to have FSU, Clemson, Notre Dame and BYU they'll be sitting pretty.

I'm surprised Aggie is such a socialist at heart.

aggsy have proven that they are opportunist, they don't care about socialism or Conservative ideals they care about getting as much money as they can with as little work as possible. As long as aggsy fans can scream SEC SEC SEC it doesn't matter what kind of product they put on the field. Every SEC win is an aggsy win.

They have manipulated everyone and everything in two conferences to make themselves look like they were innocent while at the same time deflecting as much as they can toward evil daddy in Austin.

Too bad Big 12 voting was always open and we can all see how aggsy truly voted all those years on the same issues they claim they wanted to get away from.

[djohn2oo8]

So are we.

When Daddy owns the house, daddy makes the rules.

Your new house has a daddy, and it still isn't you. Welcome to the wonderful world of Alabama and Florida calling all the shots. Now take your seat behind behind Ole Miss, just in front of Miss State
:lmao

[Clipper Nation]

Dodds should do the right thing and get Boise and BYU tbh... the Big 12 would be a SICK conference then.

[MajorMike]

From what I understand, the B12 would insist BYU play certain games (B12 BB tourney, for example) on Sundays and BYU refuses to do so, as they always have. B12 will not make any exceptions, because when you have a multi-million dollar basketball tounrey with a natinally televised Monday primetime Championship, you cannot NOT hold the semi-finals on Sunday just because one team won't play.

Every team sport is going to be like this; baseball games, baseball tourneys, basketball tourneys, softball, track and field, swimming and diving... all those will have scheduled games/tourneys that run over the weekend and usually finals on Synday. An entire enterprise cannot wait for one team, no offense to any Cougs, with the limited stature of a BYU. The smaller leagues had usually a large number of private universities in them, so they would accomodate this. NCAA Basketball tourney accomodates this by giving BYU the bracket with Thurs/Sat games and even giving them a lower seed to make it possible.

Not possible in B12, therefore not gonna happen.

[coyotes_geek]

One of ND's main hang-ups is not the independent life, per se, as it is losing revenue from the major historic rivalries.

Which is why when the time comes to join a conference, they'll join the one that most of their historic rivals are already in, the B1G.

[coyotes_geek]

I'm interested to see what the Pac does, it's not like there are a ton of great universities out west that they can pick and choose from like out east. BYU would be a natural choice but fe-kal and Stanturd blocked them last go around.

The Pac isn't going to do anything unless it involves adding Texas and it's tag-alongs.

[Blake]

Which is why when the time comes to join a conference, they'll join the one that most of their historic rivals are already in, the B1G.

I'll hand it to UT for trying to start a rivalry with Notre Dame.

[coyotes_geek]

I will too. It would be a great move for them if they could pull it off.

[Blake]

The deal for them to play each other 4 years straight starting in 2015 is a nice start.

[coyotes_geek]

It is if those games actually end up getting played. If ND does end up joining the B1G they're probably not going to be too excited about having both USC and Texas on their non-conf schedule every year.

[Blake]

They might ditch USC and rotate the academy schools

[coyotes_geek]

Extremely unlikely.

[Blake]

Yeah, they probably wouldn't rotate the military schools. They would just stick with their game with Navy.

[Vito Corleone]

If ND joins the Big 12 outside football, they will play about 4 or 5 games a year in the Big 12 leaving the remaining 7 for all their traditional rivals. However, if they join, I'm pretty sure FSU is in also. If that is the case expect them and FSU to begin a new rivalry along with Texas. I would think we would need about 2 other schools that could be considered rivals to really make it enticing for them to join the conference.

Who they are, I have no idea, I know one thing you will never see the end of the ND/USC game, that pure tradition and I hope never ends.

ND/MSU and ND/meat chicken are also huge rivalry games and could stay on their non-conference schedule along with Navy. I'd be all for us adding BC if it would get the Irish in but that would be a hard sell. I don't think one conference could handle that many Irish

The Irish have a nice little rivalry with Georgia Tech also, could add them as well.

If the Big 12 can add the irish, it won't make them the premier conference, but it will make them the most valuable as far as TV is concerned.

I could even see traditional rivals like Arkansas wanting in on a conference like that.

[coyotes_geek]

Is this before or after USC leaves the Pac for another conference?

[NFO]

I'll believe ND is in a conference when I see it. To many powerful alums value football independence like football relevance is some sort of precious metal. Unless ND gets an extremely progressive AD or their playoff access is limited ND will enjoy the status quo and tout football independence as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In the playoff era ND will have a distinct advantage because they control 100% of their schedule, where as teams in conferences have only non-conference games they can control, while the rest are pre-determined. It will be interesting when the playoff scenario is finalized how ND is treated and if it forces them to join a conference for better access to the playoffs.

[Blake]

Why Notre Dame continues to get special BCS treatment is beyond me.

Seems to me they could easily force them to join a conference or squeeze them out of the playoff system.

[yavozerb]

I'll believe ND is in a conference when I see it. To many powerful alums value football independence like football relevance is some sort of precious metal. Unless ND gets an extremely progressive AD or their playoff access is limited ND will enjoy the status quo and tout football independence as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

In the playoff era ND will have a distinct advantage because they control 100% of their schedule, where as teams in conferences have only non-conference games they can control, while the rest are pre-determined. It will be interesting when the playoff scenario is finalized how ND is treated and if it forces them to join a conference for better access to the playoffs.

Lets not forget that conference champions will still be rewarded in some way in determining the final 4. I am pretty sure that was the bone thrown big10/pac10's way in order to progress the playoff scenario. Another factor in ND possible going to the big 12 is financial. Not sure what kind of tv contract they will recieve these days after many years of sub-par play and a generation who does not follow the ND like those before since they have never been a player for the championship. Still a longshot from happening in my opinion though...

[Blake]

In the playoff era ND will have a distinct advantage because they control 100% of their schedule, where as teams in conferences have only non-conference games they can control, while the rest are pre-determined.

I think they will still have to come up with a comparable strength of schedule to get playoff consideration.

[yavozerb]

I think they will still have to come up with a comparable strength of schedule to get playoff consideration.

ND will always have to have one of the most difficult (if not the most difficult) schedule around every season to make up for not having a conference championship to show for. Just cannot see them ever contending as an independent team for a NC. The days of not contending for championships and getting paid regardless are almost at its end for ND.

[NFO]

I think they will still have to come up with a comparable strength of schedule to get playoff consideration.

I would think that would be the case too since ND has full control of their schedule. I think a conference champ out of a power conference will have to have some sort of advantage over a ND team that has the same record.

Who knows though. As Delany said yesterday, "The devil is in the detail". Guess we will find out what that means sometime down the road.

[MajorMike]

Was told again today that ND will be associate member in all sports except football beginning in 2013. They will join in Football beginning in 2015. I understand that NBC contract runs thru that time period, but am also told ND has an out in the contract. Clemson and FSU to jump soon and another team will join with ND in 2015. Have heard no rumblings as to who that is, but both WVa and ND are insisting it needs to be someone from that neck of the woods, such as a BC or Pitt or Rutgers (top targets based upon tv markets).

Also has supposedly been some odd conversation that all 3 service academys have contacted B12 about coming together, which would not only please ND (they play each of them every year) but keep all the academys together, give them sports legitimacy, extra tv money in times when the military budget is being slashed (service academys get their money from the defense budget) and could possibly create the first 16 team super conference by 2015/2016. Heard this first a few weeks ago and sort of wrote it off (based upon the person telling me) but heard it this morning from someone completely different and unassociated with the first person.

[Blake]

I don't see the financial advantage for Florida State to move, even in 3 years.

I also wonder why there is little to no talk about Miami moving as well. Are they happy being in the ACC?

[MajorMike]

Miami isn't NEAR as high a nationwide following as you would think, based upon recent numbers. They have internal issues and are quite probably pending NCAA probation. Additonally, they have a very poor reputation for character. B12 does not need anymore character issues; after all, they just got RID of one of the two cheatingest college football programs of all time, why would they want another?

[coyotes_geek]

I don't see the financial advantage for Florida State to move, even in 3 years.

I also wonder why there is little to no talk about Miami moving as well. Are they happy being in the ACC?

Miami's side of the story is academics, for whatever that's worth.

[MajorMike]

Miami was told in confidence that they were not invited so they came out publically and said they weren't interested.

[Vito Corleone]

Is this before or after USC leaves the Pac for another conference?

aggsy will equal nothing more than an ankle biter

But to answer your question

Everything depends on this new playoff system, if it is based on top 4 regardless of conference then who cares, but if it is based on conference champions, then the conferences will remain strong and you will see the status quo.

What aggsy doesn't want to see is that the whole conference setup is nothing more than a leach on the few big time schools like Texas Oklahoma USC Alabama Florida etc etc etc

When schools start to figure out that having their own network to some degree is going to make them a bunch more money that they don't have to share. You will see USC tOSU and Michigan head for the hills

[coyotes_geek]

aggsy will equal nothing more than an ankle biter

How disheartening.


But to answer your question

Everything depends on this new playoff system, if it is based on top 4 regardless of conference then who cares, but if it is based on conference champions, then the conferences will remain strong and you will see the status quo.

What aggsy doesn't want to see is that the whole conference setup is nothing more than a leach on the few big time schools like Texas Oklahoma USC Alabama Florida etc etc etc

When schools start to figure out that having their own network to some degree is going to make them a bunch more money that they don't have to share. You will see USC tOSU and Michigan head for the hills

Good point. With the longhorn network getting off to such a great start I'm sure networks are lining up for the opportunity to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on individual school networks so that they can show a couple of football games a year.

[Vito Corleone]

Texas is cutting the trail for any other followers. Aggsy won't follow because no one wants to watch them. But teams like tOSU, USC, Meat Chicken, and Notre Dame can and should follow suit. They have a product people want to see and will pay to see.

When the LHN gets shut down then I will call it a failure, until then, it is a success.

[Blake]

It's definitely a failure for espn so far.

[Vito Corleone]

"So far" means very little, it's only a failure if they throw in the towel. Many projects are destined to have short-term losses with the expectation of huge long-term gains.

I'm sure they had no idea the resistance they would receive in the state when they started, or they might have known this was going to happen. I've heard they are asking for 1.50 a subscription for in-state and something like .85 for outside the state in the Big 12.

I have yet to see one thing printed about how ESPN sees their investment going. The latest set of moves is making everything interesting for getting this network going, I'm interested to see how this latest set of moves is met.

[MajorMike]

Being told Notre Dame has rejected the B12 proposal because they wanted all their provisions and the conf was not willing to give them everything they want. Some other issues about how often FSU would get to play in Texas vs how often ND would get to, and petty stuff like that.

Supposedly Notre Dame will be going to ACC and ACC is going to give them any and every thing they want, including not having to bring football.

[yavozerb]

Being told Notre Dame has rejected the B12 proposal because they wanted all their provisions and the conf was not willing to give them everything they want. Some other issues about how often FSU would get to play in Texas vs how often ND would get to, and petty stuff like that.

Supposedly Notre Dame will be going to ACC and ACC is going to give them any and every thing they want, including not having to bring football.

This site seems to agree:

http://www.tigerboard.com/boards/missouri-tigers.php?message=9734108

Do you think FSU and another school still get invites?

[MajorMike]

Don't know; if ND goes ACC, Clem may very well decide to stay and if FSU wants to come B12 may end up going with Lville or find some other shot in the dark.

One thing is for sure, if this ACC thing is true you can expect B12 to vote right away to invite them and all the smoke and mirrors will vanish.

[Vito Corleone]

ACC is desperate to hold things together, but I don't see it lasting. THis is going to turn into a 4 conf league and the ACC is a basketball conf.

[Blake]

it's only a failure if they throw in the towel.

Then that would simply complete the failure.

[Vito Corleone]

In business there are lots of ways to win even when it looks like you are losing. Keep this in mind.

When Deloss Dodds walks into a room he is usually the smartest guy in the room, not to mention the most powerful. ESPN has Texas as an Ally in all it's college football dealings. Why, because of the LHN.

In all this movement have you noticed that none of the major Universities have moved anywhere. Sure a few pawns have moved around, but the big fish are still sitting there. Texas & Notre Dame are the top fish in play and we are playing everything just like we know we should. ESPN knows that they are in a fight with Fox and jumped to get Texas in as their ally. And in doing so have kept Texas from shifting the balance of power to any single conference, especially the Big Tin.

Now if we are looking at the LHN as a single business move by ESPN then maybe they did make a mistake, but again, this is a long-term move not a short one. However, if they are using Texas to help shape a more pro-espn college league by manipulating conference alignment then 15 million a year may be saving them 150 million a year.

It's all speculation at this point because we aren't privy to what ESPN thinks in all that has happened with the LHN, my guess is even if they think it's a flop as a TV channel, they probably are still pretty happy with having Texas as an Ally