Boris Diaw vs. David Lee

[mavs>spurs]

just came back and i see the same old stuff i saw 3 hours ago im chillin

[FkLA]

well i had already defeated dok tbh i was just responding to bump real quick but probs gonna split watch some belladonna :)

[mavs>spurs]

claiming internet victory still? have fun bro

[flipspursfan]

Thats been my point the whole time, which is why you take his 20-10 with a grain of salt cause he wouldnt put those kind of stats on good teams. Comparing who would be a better 4th-5th best player on a team its pretty close and taking Diaw isnt really homerish. Lee is a better rebounder and scorer but Id rather have Diaw because of his range, ability to facilitate, and the fact that hes not a terrible defender.

A point wrongly used to arrive at the wrong conclusion. While we can take those stats with a grain of salt, we can still take them. Whereas Diaw, who's played with the Bobcats didn't even get those stats. So who's lazy now? That's Diaw, and I can only imagine what how David Lee would work on his game, given the chance to play with the Spurs.

[ElNono]

The fact that David Lee averaged 10+ boards for the past 4 seasons (that's on two different teams) vs Diaw not being able to even average 7 boards for his entire career (his actual career average is 4.9), should put the conversation on who's more valuable to the defense to rest. Neither is a defensive anchor, but only one of them knows how to box out and grab a fucking board on a consistent basis.

[Axe Murderer]

http://files2.fliiby.com/images/_original/at23ymqkkki.gif

[FkLA]

A point wrongly used to arrive at the wrong conclusion. While we can take those stats with a grain of salt, we can still take them. Whereas Diaw, who's played with the Bobcats didn't even get those stats. So who's lazy now? That's Diaw, and I can only imagine what how David Lee would work on his game, given the chance to play with the Spurs.

Im not going to repeat myself tbh.


The fact that David Lee averaged 10+ boards for the past 4 seasons (that's on two different teams) vs Diaw not being able to even average 7 boards for his entire career (his actual career average is 4.9), should put the conversation on who's more valuable to the defense to rest. Neither is a defensive anchor, but only one of them knows how to box out and grab a fucking board on a consistent basis.

So youre saying youd rather have Blair in there instead of Diaw? Blair is a better rebounder than Diaw too tbh.

[ElNono]

So youre saying youd rather have Blair in there instead of Diaw? Blair is a better rebounder than Diaw too tbh.

I'm saying Lee's defensive contribution in rebounding alone puts him over Diaw (or Blair).

As far as Diaw vs Blair, tossup, tbh... Blair also never averaged more than 7 boards in a season...

[FkLA]

As far as Diaw vs Blair, tossup, tbh... Blair also never averaged more than 7 boards in a season...

Hes never gotten the minutes/played for bad teams like Lee. Pretty bold to say its a toss-up though Im not even going to bother arguing that.

[ElNono]

Hes never gotten the minutes/played for bad teams like Lee. Pretty bold to say its a toss-up though Im not even going to bother arguing that.

Lee's best season was with the Knicks and he averaged 11 boards in 26 mins... Dejuan can't get past 7 on 21 mins... plus Blair's rebounding has gone MIA last season (5.5 in 21 mins).

When it comes to rebounding, numbers say Diaw and Blair are a tossup. The difference obviously is that Diaw is actually a tall dude, so the opponents can't shoot over him as easily.

But here Lee also has the advantage: At 6'9, he's the taller of the three.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

The fact that David Lee averaged 10+ boards for the past 4 seasons (that's on two different teams) vs Diaw not being able to even average 7 boards for his entire career (his actual career average is 4.9), should put the conversation on who's more valuable to the defense to rest. Neither is a defensive anchor, but only one of them knows how to box out and grab a fucking board on a consistent basis.

David Lee also getting roughly 3 offensive boards a game would make him more valuable on offense than Diaw.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

http://files2.fliiby.com/images/_original/at23ymqkkki.gif

:lmao

[Ace]

http://files2.fliiby.com/images/_original/at23ymqkkki.gif
:lol

[ohmwrecker]

claiming internet victory still? have fun bro

Hey, Pickles.

Oh, and I'd take Lee in a heartbeat even though he knows what RJ's balls smell like.

[DAF86]

The fact that David Lee averaged 10+ boards for the past 4 seasons (that's on two different teams) vs Diaw not being able to even average 7 boards for his entire career (his actual career average is 4.9), should put the conversation on who's more valuable to the defense to rest. Neither is a defensive anchor, but only one of them knows how to box out and grab a fucking board on a consistent basis.

That's really a bad argument. Blair is a monster on the boards on a per minute basis and he's arguably the worst defender in the history of humanity.

[ElNono]

That's really a bad argument. Blair is a monster on the boards on a per minute basis and he's arguably the worst defender in the history of humanity.

Not sure what you call a "monster", tbh... but at any rate, Lee and Blair rebound at about the same rate (10.9 per 36 for Lee, 11.3 per 36 for Blair)

Blair has a different problem: he's too short. Lee doesn't have that problem.

The question really is why Diaw has so much trouble grabbing boards, when seemingly a shorter guy has no such trouble.

[DAF86]

Not sure what you call a "monster", tbh... but at any rate, Lee and Blair rebound at about the same rate (10.9 per 36 for Lee, 11.3 per 36 for Blair)

Blair has a different problem: he's too short. Lee doesn't have that problem.

The question really is why Diaw has so much trouble grabbing boards, when seemingly a shorter guy has no such trouble.

Well, there you go. Blair's rebounding rate is higher than Diaw's (even higher than Lee's) yet every single person with the ability to see (and I think you'll agree with this) knows that Boris is the much better defender.

This proves that your "player X rebounds better than player Y so that automatically makes him a more valuble defender" argument is flawed, imho.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

lol per minute rates

[ElNono]

Well, there you go. Blair's rebounding rate is higher than Diaw's (even higher than Lee's) yet every single person with the ability to see (and I think you'll agree with this) knows that Boris is the much better defender.

But we weren't comparing Blair to Lee/Diaw, we were comparing Diaw with Lee, both of which are about the same height (Diaw 6'8, Lee 6'9), and don't have Blair's major weakness (being a relative midget for a big man)


This proves that your "player X rebounds better than player Y so that automatically makes him a more valuble defender" argument is flawed, imho.

It only proves that comparing Blair to any tall big men is retarded. Not sure why Blair was brought up anyways.

[DAF86]

But we weren't comparing Blair to Lee/Diaw, we were comparing Diaw with Lee, both of which are about the same height (Diaw 6'8, Lee 6'9), and don't have Blair's major weakness (being a relative midget for a big man)



It only proves that comparing Blair to any tall big men is retarded. Not sure why Blair was brought up anyways.

Nowitzki is a 7 footer and a better rebounder than Diaw but he's a worst defender than Boris. Amare is 6'9/6'10 and the same. Being a better rebounder while having the same size as another guy doesn't make you a better defender. That's my point.

[ElNono]

Nowitzki is a 7 footer and a better rebounder than Diaw but he's a worst defender than Boris. Amare is 6'9/6'10 and the same. Being a better rebounder while having the same size as another guy doesn't make you a better defender. That's my point.

You're overrating Diaw's defense, IMO. I don't think he's any better than Dirk or Amare, tbh, who are also fairly mediocre.

[FkLA]

Basically the point DAF is making is that you can be a good rebounder+have good size and still be a terrible defender. If youre going to make a dumb claim like saying that terrible defenders like Amare or Lee (and to a lesser extent Dirk) are just as good defensively as Diaw your sole reason behind it shouldnt be rebounding/size.

[ElNono]

Basically the point DAF is making is that you can be a good rebounder+have good size and still be a terrible defender. If youre going to make a dumb claim like saying that terrible defenders like Amare or Lee (and to a lesser extent Dirk) are just as good defensively as Diaw your sole reason behind it shouldnt be rebounding/size.

You need to backup it's a dumb claim, tbh... What defensive numbers put Diaw over the likes of Lee, Dirk or Amare?

The reality is that all of them are below average/average defenders.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

No numbers put Diaw over those guys, he's "Average" and they are "terrible". If you can't understand what that ambiguous description means, then that's your problem.

[ElNono]

Diaw biggest problem is that he's lazy. He's been lazy his whole career. It's no surprise to see him struggling with something like rebounding, which is mostly hustle.

It's one of the main concerns going into this season for the Spurs, IMO. Now he got paid, will he get lazy again?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

iirc the Spurs were smart and made the 2nd year of his deal a team option so they won't get the same bullshit Phoenix got when signed a 5 year deal and was completely unmotivated in every which way for the 2+ years he was in Phoenix after signing the extension.

I'd still be surprised if he doesn't show up to training camp fat and lazy figuring he can wait till the end of the season to convince the Spurs to pick up the 2nd year of his deal.

[Raven]

So the fact he was on a good defensive team automatically means he wasn't a terrible defender? The fact Lee was on a bad defensive team automatically means he's a terrible defender?

This is vintage Spurfan citing things that can't be quantified because Lee has an advantage over Diaw in everything that can be quantified.

Hm, hard to argue with someone sayin I said something i never said..

[mavs>spurs]

spur fans are ridiculous and notoriously stupid

[DMC]

If Boris would shoot the fucking ball he would be fine.

[kamikazi_player]

Poll coming. Vote on who you think is the better basketball player.

I'm making it public so I can easily identify a list of all the dumbfucks who pick Boris Diaw.

:lol your sig

Those kinds of people are a disgrace to democrats :depressed

[kamikazi_player]

http://files2.fliiby.com/images/_original/at23ymqkkki.gif
:lmao

[FkLA]

I'd still be surprised if he doesn't show up to training camp fat and lazy figuring he can wait till the end of the season to convince the Spurs to pick up the 2nd year of his deal.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/487431_10151037430526981_139280799_n.jpg

He came in thinner, so so far hes on the right track. Who cares if Diaw has a history of laziness too. I said Id take a motivated Diaw, which he has been on the Spurs and most winning teams hes been on, over Lee not the lazy Diaw.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'd take a 2006, in shape and motivated Diaw when he averaged over 6 boards and 6 assists (in which case his versatility really was unique) over David Lee. On the Spurs he was still fat and out of shape. Maybe he was more motivated than he was in Charlotte but he hasn't sniffed his 2006 level of play since he signed the 5 year extension following that season. The 2007 and 2008 Suns I'm guessing fit your definition of "winning" and he was not motivated on either team. Maybe more motivated than he was in Charlotte when he completely stopped caring, but not motivated enough to stay in shape. His problem has never been trying hard during games, his problem has been doing what's required in between games and during the off season.

2006 Diaw
http://www.nba.com/media/suns/diaw_200_060501.jpg


2012 Diaw
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7074/7010471443_2e4d48dd2a_z.jpg

[FkLA]

Even overweight a motivated Diaw still has a unique skillset, and is more useful on a good team than the skillset of a player like Lee imo. Bad defenders, with nice stats and a 'knack for rebounding' have shown theyre completely useless on solid teams. One may be slightly better than the other, but theyre all the same type of players; Blair, Gooden, Boozer, Lee, etc. Alll empty stats. Ive always hated that type of player tbh.

[FkLA]

If Diaw got back to 06' form it wouldnt be a discussion tbh. Itd be Diaw easily despite Lee still having the much nicer stats.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Even overweight a motivated Diaw still has a unique skillset, and is more useful on a good team than the skillset of a player like Lee imo. Bad defenders, with nice stats and a 'knack for rebounding' have shown theyre completely useless on solid teams. One may be slightly better than the other, but theyre all the same type of players; Blair, Gooden, Boozer, Lee, etc. Alll empty stats. Ive always hated that type of player tbh.
Blair and Gooden are not on the same level as Boozer or Lee (Lee isn't on the same level as healthy Boozer for that matter). To say Carlos Boozer is useless on solid teams is wildly retarded.

In 2007, he was the leading scorer and rebounder on a 51 win team that made the conference finals.
In 2008, he was the leading scorer and rebounder on a 54 win team that made the conference semifinals.
In 2010, he was the leading scorer and rebounder on a 53 win team that made the conference semifinals.
In 2011, he was the 3rd leading scorer and leading rebounder on a 62 win team that made the conference finals.
In 2012, he was the leading scorer and 2nd leading rebounder on the team that had the best record and lost in the 1st round because its best player is a gangbanger.

That's what you consider completely useless on a solid team? The day Gooden or Blair lead a 50+ win team that makes the conference finals in scoring and rebounding let me know, I'll slice my scrotum off and Fedex it to you, but I'm not too concerned with that happening.

Lee's "Knack for rebounding" is also stronger than Gooden or Blair's knack for rebounding. Lee has rebounded well in every situation he's had. He's rebounded well as both a starter and reserve, as both a PF and a C, etc. Even in 2008 when he was on the same team as Randolph and Curry playing mostly off the bench, he still rebounded really well.

Lastly, if you're going to base your argument off how good/bad Lee would be on a good team, then you also have to acknowledge the possibility that his bad D is largely a product of the teams he's been on and would get better on the Spurs. The Gooden/Blair comparison isn't valid since both of those players have already proven themselves as bad defenders on good teams, Lee has never had a coach who gives a shit about defense with the exception of Larry Brown his rookie year. I'm not saying it's a sure thing he'd be much better on D on the Spurs, but acting like his defense hypothetically being just as bad under Popovich as it was under Isiah Thomas, Mike D'antoni, Keith Smart or Marc Jackson is a foregone conclusion doesn't make any sense. He's got good athleticism, his size is good enough (and yes, 6'9" 250 is not bad size for a PF in today's NBA), as far as I can tell he isn't notoriously stupid like Drew Gooden and his energy level has never been a problem. He also wouldn't have one of the worst defensive backcourts in the NBA leaving him in bad spots. There's no reason to assume he'd be as bad as Gooden or Blair.

In essence, the Gooden/Blair comparison is asinine.

[FkLA]

Boozer is the best of the bunch but hes still trash. Its no coincidence that the Bulls never miss a step when Taj Gibson steps in when hes injured. No defense, no post-presence on offense, no ability to consistently create on his own/draw double teams...hes basically made a living off of being really really good at mostly hitting jumpshots from Roses and DWills penetration. Getting those numbers from him is very different than lets say MVPaus similar numbers on a good Lakers team. Empty stats. Just like what Gooden provided for those 50+ win Cleveland teams when he was a Top 2-3 scorer and rebounder for them. All of these kind of players suck, I didnt single Lee out because Im a homer trying to prop up Diaw.

Regarding Lee, other than being white he hasnt shown much when it comes to defensive bball IQ. I wouldnt say hes as stupid as Blair or Gooden (simply because hes white) but hes still an obvious defensive liability. And the same no post-presence, no ability to consistently create on his own/draw double teams statement applies for Lee as well obviously.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Will bump this sometime next season when Diaw comes into camp with 10% BF and puts up 10, 7, and 3+ tbh :toast

So far this season:
Diaw: 5.7 points, 3.5 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 59% shooting

Lee: 17.6 points, 10.7 boards, 3.8 assists, 49% shooting....on a 11-7 team

:lmao FkLA
:lmao dumb be@ner
:lmao UTSA
:lmao Diaw > Lee
:lmao shove a pinata up your ass and kill yourself

[TheRealCB]

So far this season:
Diaw: 5.7 points, 3.5 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 59% shooting

Lee: 17.6 points, 10.7 boards, 3.8 assists, 49% shooting....on a 11-7 team

:lmao FkLA
:lmao dumb be@ner
:lmao UTSA
:lmao Diaw > Lee
:lmao shove a pinata up your ass and kill yourself

But, he's :cryefficient:cry

[jeebus]

So far this season:
Diaw: 5.7 points, 3.5 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 59% shooting

Lee: 17.6 points, 10.7 boards, 3.8 assists, 49% shooting....on a 11-7 team

:lmao FkLA
:lmao dumb be@ner
:lmao UTSA
:lmao Diaw > Lee
:lmao shove a pinata up your ass and kill yourself
B-b-b-b-b-b-but Lee isn't cl:cryssy!

:cry

[Brazil]

:lmao

[FkLA]

Diaw is a fat fuck tbh. I honestly thought playing in an environment like the Spurs would bring out the best in him (which I would take over Lee), but dude just goes through the motions out there...he'll have a great 10, 5+, 5+ line here or there and then has an empty stat line the next game. Really unique skill set but just lazy as shit, cant believe I fell for this fat fucks tricks. :(

[Paranoid Pop]

Diaw is a fat fuck tbh. I honestly thought playing in an environment like the Spurs would bring out the best in him (which I would take over Lee), but dude just goes through the motions out there...he'll have a great 10, 5+, 5+ line here or there and then has an empty stat line the next game. Really unique skill set but just lazy as shit, cant believe I fell for this fat fucks tricks. :(

I think he should roid, Diaw on roid rage would be Lebron basically :king.

[DAF86]

I don't see him specially fat, tbh. The problem for him was Pop deciding to start/showcase Blair to ship his ass off.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Diaw is a fat fuck tbh. I honestly thought playing in an environment like the Spurs would bring out the best in him (which I would take over Lee), but dude just goes through the motions out there...he'll have a great 10, 5+, 5+ line here or there and then has an empty stat line the next game. Really unique skill set but just lazy as shit, cant believe I fell for this fat fucks tricks. :(

:lmao what tricks? His numbers with the Spurs last year were even worse than what they are this year, your 10 and 7 prediction was totally illogical and dumb.

[FkLA]

I don't see him specially fat, tbh. The problem for him was Pop deciding to start/showcase Blair to ship his ass off.

Hes still overweight. Its not so much his weight thats the problem though as much as the way he approaches and plays games which makes him come off as lazy.

:lmao what tricks? His numbers with the Spurs last year were even worse than what they are this year, your 10 and 7 prediction was totally illogical and dumb.

Him shedding some weight+appearing to be happy playing alongside his gay, French teammates. Didnt expect him to be content being a lollygagger out on the court tbh. The prediction wasnt illogical since he has the talent to easily play better than he has thus far this season.

[Brazil]

Hes still overweight. Its not so much his weight thats the problem though as much as the way he approaches and plays games which makes him come off as lazy.


Him shedding some weight+appearing to be happy playing alongside his gay, French teammates. Didnt expect him to be content being a lollygagger out on the court tbh. The prediction wasnt illogical since he has the talent to easily play better than he has thus far this season.

great comeback to hide your shitty takes on Diaw and Lee.

Even if Diaw played better than thus far he would be nowhere close to D Lee.

[FkLA]

If he consistently put up 10+, 5+, 5+ lines like he has a couple of times he would be tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Him shedding some weight+appearing to be happy playing alongside his gay, French teammates. Didnt expect him to be content being a lollygagger out on the court tbh. The prediction wasnt illogical since he has the talent to easily play better than he has thus far this season.

He's never averaged 7+ rebounds a game. Not when he was in shape, not when he was fat. Thinking he would magically do that this year was illogical, GNSF bullshit.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

If he consistently put up 10+, 5+, 5+ lines like he has a couple of times he would be tbh.

:lmao "He's better than Lee in my hypothetical fantasy land where he's a much better player than he actually is!"

[GoodOdor]

"if only he played like he has never played in his life, my prediction would be on target":depressed:depressed

lol chicks with dicks.

[Brazil]

If he consistently put up 10+, 5+, 5+ lines like he has a couple of times he would be tbh.

He did that in his MIP trophy year and that's it. Boris has always been a very talented player with laziness tendencies, he is who he is and he won't change especially at this stage of his career

[DPG21920]

People going HAM on FkLA aka the welsher aka accepted to UT but willingly choose UTSA aka shemale porn is mah thing aka wish I hadda do ova.

[FkLA]

:lmao "He's better than Lee in my hypothetical fantasy land where he's a much better player than he actually is!"

You think its a matter of ability rather than just laziness? Ill admit I was wroing for expecting him to change because of the Spurs culture, I dont think saying hes more talented than the numbers indicate is inaccurate though.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You said he's better than David Lee. Being better totally encompasses who is less lazy and who plays up to his ability more. Your argument wasn't, "Diaw is better than Lee when he's not being lazy," but it doesn't really surprise me to see you move the goalposts the way Diaw is playing this year.

[AaronY]

David Lee is horrible. He's better than Diaw but thats no accomplishment. His teams haven't been better with him on the court versus off it for years now

[Edward]

AaronY is quickly rising in the retarded GNSF ranks


It's also funny how the filthy, filthy be@ner FkLA stopped posting in this thread after going full on retarded with his, "bu bu but Diaw would be better if he averaged a mythical stat line that his real stats don't come close to!"

[Raven]

i'd still take diaw over lee any day of the week.. not because he has a better offensive game or whatever, he simply makes a team better which lee doesn't. And that is not something that can easily change.. and c'mon, how long can golden state stockpile lottery picks until they finally get into a playoff team?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

i'd still take diaw over lee any day of the week..

You're still retarded any day of the week

[Raven]

You're still retarded any day of the week

at least you should wait until the season is over instead of taking advantage of diaw plaing anywhere from 3 to 5 (and playing fairly well tbh) with 25% of the season over.. I mean, it's not like they are not known quantities ...

[jeebus]

AaronY is quickly rising in the retarded GNSF ranks

there have been quite a few gnsf's coming down here, feeling pretty good about the Spurs' record over the past month. plus with Bonner in his usual early season form, expect the semen to keep leaking downstairs with the shitty takes.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

at least you should wait until the season is over instead of taking advantage of diaw plaing anywhere from 3 to 5 (and playing fairly well tbh) with 25% of the season over.. I mean, it's not like they are not known quantities ...

I don't need to wait till the season is over to know FkLA's 10 PPG 7 RPG prediction for Diaw isn't gonna happen.

[Raven]

I don't need to wait till the season is over to know FkLA's 10 PPG 7 RPG prediction for Diaw isn't gonna happen.

no arguments here, but the winning record is an argument that should not be counted so early in the season .

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

no arguments here, but the winning record is an argument that should not be counted so early in the season .

I'd bet my left testicle that if the Warriors were 7-12 and not 12-7, Diawfan would be jerking each other off in this thread about Golden State's early season losing record.

[Raven]

I'd bet my left testicle that if the Warriors were 7-12 and not 12-7, Diawfan would be jerking each other off in this thread about Golden State's early season losing record.

i'm simply backing up my statement, not bandwagoning without a proper reason. No personal attacks here.

[Spur_Fanatic]

Is this a "Diaw, traitor, how could you join the Spurs and revive your career?" thread?

Sorry, new here. Anyway, Lee is better. I don't think he would work on the Spurs, true.
But if I'm given the choice to pick one of the two...

[AaronY]

People, especially retards (sup Jeebus, DuncanOWNSKobe), don't know this about David Lee because he's a nice guy says all the right things, is a good interview etc. but he has absolutely no interest in defense and is regularly one of the worst defenders in the NBA. Look at his opponent counterpart numbers from the past two years:
http://www.82games.com/1011/10GSW14.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/11GSW12.HTM

Guys literally average 20/15 per 48, while shooting well over 50%, with around a 20 per against him. Like this isn't his numbers against good players this is his numbers against opponents overall.

In other words the average player becomes an all star at the mere sight of David Lee.

Lol @ this thread gmafb

[AaronY]

This even understates his horried defense as I remember reading an article where they talked about his synergy numbers and his hel;p defense was even worse. Basically if not involved in the play he's content to just chill on the weak defense and let the other guys deal with it he can
t be bothered to rotate and take a charge and despite being a good leaper he is one of the worst shot blocking big men in the league. About the on;y gppd thing he does at that end of the court is defensive rebound

[FkLA]

AaronY is quickly rising in the retarded GNSF ranks


It's also funny how the filthy, filthy be@ner FkLA (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17213) stopped posting in this thread after going full on retarded with his, "bu bu but Diaw would be better if he averaged a mythical stat line that his real stats don't come close to!"

I was busy engineering, faggot.

Anyways I always said Diaw on the Spurs, go back and read the earlier posts in this thread. Thats because I expected (wrongly) that playing on a team like the Spurs would bring out the best in him...that obviously hasnt been the case which Ive admitted. Not sure what else youre trying to get at tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I was busy engineering, faggot.

Anyways I always said Diaw on the Spurs, go back and read the earlier posts in this thread. Thats because I expected (wrongly) that playing on a team like the Spurs would bring out the best in him...that obviously hasnt been the case which Ive admitted. Not sure what else youre trying to get at tbh.

I'm trying to get at the fact your hypothetical "Diaw on the Spurs" player never existed and you're changing your argument. Your argument was, "Diaw > Lee" (hence why you selected Diaw in the poll above) and you've since added the caviat, "If 'Diaw on the Spurs' loses weight and has his best season since 2006 with a career high in rebounding he's > Lee," even though you originally argued the fat Diaw from last season who averaged 4 and 4 was better than Lee.

You're trying to dismiss this as you making a perfectly logical and reasonable assumption that happened to not pan out in order to let yourself off easy when A) it was an illogical stupid assumption and B) you were arguing that the fat Diaw who averaged 4 and 4 last year was better than Lee.

[spurraider21]

David Lee is easily the better player, but I'd go so far to argue that Diaw is a better fit for the Spurs. More reliable post D, a better facilitator than Lee, and is better as far as spacing/range. Lee is more capable of putting up 20 in his sleep, but thats not really a need for the Spurs.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So what you're saying is that if Diaw wasn't overweight he'd be better than David Lee, even though Diaw has been overweight since 2006 :lmao


Nah hes better regardless.

[FkLA]

I'm trying to get at the fact your hypothetical "Diaw on the Spurs" player never existed and you're changing your argument. Your argument was, "Diaw > Lee" (hence why you selected Diaw in the poll above) and you've since added the caviat, "If 'Diaw on the Spurs' loses weight and has his best season since 2006 with a career high in rebounding he's > Lee," even though you originally argued the fat Diaw from last season who averaged 4 and 4 was better than Lee.

You're trying to dismiss this as you making a perfectly logical and reasonable assumption that happened to not pan out in order to let yourself off easy when A) it was an illogical stupid assumption and B) you were arguing that the fat Diaw who averaged 4 and 4 last year was better than Lee.

Read previous posts, I always said I liked what Diaw brought to the table on a team like the Spurs over what Lee did. Obviously it would make no sense on my part to argue strictly numbers and say 4-4>20-10. Or to compare them when theyre in two completely different situations in GS and SA, you need some type of hypotheticals to make the comparison make some sense...and I always said on a lottery team Lee is the better option because of Diaws laziness. On a team like the Spurs I took Diaw because I assumed he wouldnt be lazy.

I was wrong about him getting his shit together. Not seeing how the assumption is illogical though, its not like players that have a reputation of being lazy raising their games on good teams is unheard of.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Read previous posts, I always said I liked what Diaw brought to the table on a team like the Spurs over what Lee did. Obviously it would make no sense on my part to argue strictly numbers and say 4-4>20-10.
Yet you specifically said, post buy-out Diaw (i.e. the Diaw who averaged 4 and 4 on the Spurs last year) > David Lee.


and I always said on a lottery team Lee is the better option because of Diaws laziness. On a team like the Spurs I took Diaw because I assumed he wouldnt be lazy.
So basically you took a fairytale non-lazy version of Boris Diaw that doesn't exist. Totally logical :tu.


I was wrong about him getting his shit together. Not seeing how the assumption is illogical though, its not like players that have a reputation of being lazy raising their games on good teams is unheard of.
1) Your arguments were as if he already had gotten his shit together. You weren't saying, "Diaw is better than Lee IF he gets his shit together," you specifically said he's better than Lee regardless. Now your changing your argument to Diaw > lee being contingent on Diaw getting in shape and not being lazy.

2) It's illogical because you treated a possible scenario (Diaw getting in shape and not being lazy) as a foregone conclusion that was guaranteed to happen.

[FkLA]

Because Diaw clearly doesnt have the motivation to put up 20-10 on lottery teams. When it comes to putting up solid numbers on shitty teams, Lee blows Diaw away. Ive conceded that tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You keep on hanging onto stats. Ive never said Diaws numbers are comparable to Lees, I said Diaw is a better player. A dumbass like Blair would likely put up double doubles with the Warriors if he was given enough minutes, it wouldnt make him a better player than Diaw even if Diaw simply did what he did with the Spurs last season (4 and 4). Undersized, unathletic PFs who play no defense but have a 'knack' for rebounding and can put up some points are some of the most overrated players in the league.
Seems pretty obvious you were trying to argue 4 and 4 Diaw > Lee. The fact you're trying to back out of it though tells me that you know you're wrong :lol

[FkLA]

So basically you took a fairytale non-lazy version of Boris Diaw that doesn't exist. Totally logical :tu.

Dont think it was a foregone conclusion that he wouldnt pick up his game tbh. He had never been in an environment as favorable as the Spurs imo.



1) Your arguments were as if he already had gotten his shit together. You weren't saying, "Diaw is better than Lee IF he gets his shit together," you specifically said he's better than Lee regardless. Now your changing your argument to Diaw > lee being contingent on Diaw getting in shape and not being lazy.

2) It's illogical because you treated a possible scenario (Diaw getting in shape and not being lazy) as a foregone conclusion that was guaranteed to happen.

I did treat it as a foregone conclusion, and was wrong in doing so which Ive admitted about ten times already. Maybe it was the fact that it was in shorter doses or the fact that he was so much better than Blair/Bonner...but I liked what I saw out of him last season, didnt really lollygag the way he has at times this season despite being heavier. Nigga for sure fooled me, cause I was expecting bigger things from him.

[FkLA]

Seems pretty obvious you were trying to argue 4 and 4 Diaw > Lee. The fact you're trying to back out of it though tells me that you know you're wrong :lol

I still dont think much of Lee as a player. Would still take a top form Diaw over him, regardless of the numbers. Where I went wrong was expecting Diaw to be in top form.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Dont think it was a foregone conclusion that he wouldnt pick up his game tbh. He had never been in an environment as favorable as the Spurs imo..

:lmao that's your argument, "Maybe I can't assume the positive, but you can't assume the negative!"

You're obviously not familiar with how logic works. In logic, you assume the norm until something contrary happens. By default, the logical assumption was Diaw's motivation continued as it had been the last several years.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I still dont think much of Lee as a player. Would still take a top form Diaw over him, regardless of the numbers. Where I went wrong was expecting Diaw to be in top form.

Totally irrelevant to what I quoted. You originally said you'd take 4 and 4 Diaw over Lee, and now you're backing away from that.

[FkLA]

:lmao that's your argument, "Maybe I can't assume the positive, but you can't assume the negative!"

You're obviously not familiar with how logic works. In logic, you assume the norm until something contrary happens. By default, the logical assumption was Diaw's motivation continued as it had been the last several years.

Why would that be logical when Charlotte and San Antonio are completely different? Thats like saying it wouldve been safe to assume Sheed would be as lazy with the Pistons as he wouldve been if he had stayed in those terrible Atlanta teams for more than one game.

[FkLA]

Totally irrelevant to what I quoted. You originally said you'd take 4 and 4 Diaw over Lee, and now you're backing away from that.


Maybe it was the fact that it was in shorter doses or the fact that he was so much better than Blair/Bonner...but I liked what I saw out of him last season, didnt really lollygag the way he has at times this season despite being heavier. Nigga for sure fooled me, cause I was expecting bigger things from him.

Not sure how its backtracking or stepping away from it. My assessment on Diaws motivation improving with the Spurs was way off, naturally that makes any other statement wrong too. Its not like I was ever arguing a lazy Diaw>Lee, like I said where I went wrong was expecting Diaw to not be lazy because of the nice short doses in half a season last year.

[Pelicans78]

I'm assuming that Lee doesn't have anything to do with GSW being 13-7.

Can't believe how anyone would take Diaw over Lee. Lee is clearly a better player.

[Pelicans78]

Lee > motivated Diaw

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Why would that be logical when Charlotte and San Antonio are completely different? Thats like saying it wouldve been safe to assume Sheed would be as lazy with the Pistons as he wouldve been if he had stayed in those terrible Atlanta teams for more than one game.

You assume the null hypothesis until proven differently, this is one of the most basic logical concepts someone who's taking applied math classes should easily grasp. If you haven't learned this yet, you will in the basic stat class all engineering majors have to take.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I'm assuming that Lee doesn't have anything to do with GSW being 13-7.

They be undefeated without him!

[Bill_Brasky]

:cry but the Spurs went on a huge run when they got Diaw last year. :cry

[mathbzh]

:cry but the Spurs went on a huge run when they got Diaw last year. :cry
And the Bobcats went to the playoffs with a motivated Diaw
And the Suns made the conference finals with Diaw replacing Stoudemire.

I will not compare Diaw and Lee, but when Diaw is motivated (not often) he is really a special player.

For David Lee... is 13-7 more meaningful that 23-43 (or any of his other records with NYK or GSW)?

Lee career W/L: 199/319... sorry bur 13-7 is not exactly impressive

[DMC]

I haven't watched Lee enough to know how good he is. I think many people are just taking the fact that Lee is a name. Most here don't watch GSW games and didn't see a lot of him in NY. We know Diaw through our battles with the Suns and during his stint here.

In the Spurs system, either would be good. I'd take Lee in the Spurs system over Diaw in the Spurs system right now because I know what Diaw is doing is deferring and I hate capable people who defer. He's not looking for a better shot, he's just dumping the ball off. I think he's still in some kind of a cruise mode. However, he's black and Lee is white and eventually something in him will break and he will unleash hundreds of years of pent up slave rage and become a monster on the court.

[jeebus]

he will unleash hundreds of years of pent up slave rage and become a monster on the court.
he only does that at Golden Corral tbqhwy

[ElNono]

I haven't watched Lee enough to know how good he is. I think many people are just taking the fact that Lee is a name. Most here don't watch GSW games and didn't see a lot of him in NY. We know Diaw through our battles with the Suns and during his stint here.

In the Spurs system, either would be good. I'd take Lee in the Spurs system over Diaw in the Spurs system right now because I know what Diaw is doing is deferring and I hate capable people who defer. He's not looking for a better shot, he's just dumping the ball off. I think he's still in some kind of a cruise mode. However, he's black and Lee is white and eventually something in him will break and he will unleash hundreds of years of pent up slave rage and become a monster on the court.

Wild Cobra would tell you Lee is the hard working guy earning his money, while Diaw is the one looking for a handout, no racist, tbqh, imooooo....

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Diaw isn't a black guy with typical pent up slave rage. His black genes come his his Senegalese dad so he's more of a Francophone African (i.e. Diop, Sene, Petro). In my experiece, Francophone Africans are some of the most obnoxious and filthy ill-mannered, lazy people on the face of the Earth. State universities love employing them because they don't demand a high salary and can teach both French and African studies classes, and they're always the most universally hated professors at the school because of how inconsiderate and lazy they are as teachers.

[DPG21920]

DoK - was your favorite president Lincoln?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Teddy Roosevelt tbh.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

Diaw isn't a black guy with typical pent up slave rage. His black genes come his his Senegalese dad so he's more of a Francophone African (i.e. Diop, Sene, Petro). In my experiece, Francophone Africans are some of the most obnoxious and filthy ill-mannered, lazy people on the face of the Earth. State universities love employing them because they don't demand a high salary and can teach both French and African studies classes, and they're always the most universally hated professors at the school because of how inconsiderate and lazy they are as teachers.

tbh the biggest thing true Africans and Afro-Americans have in common (besides skin color) is their love of having a bluetooth in their ear 24/7.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

tbh the biggest thing true Africans and Afro-Americans have in common (besides skin color) is their love of having a bluetooth in their ear 24/7.

:lol when I used to play pickup basketball a lot, the brothas in their late 20s/early 30s loved to play with a blue toof in their ear. When I saw one of the guys who always did it worked at Best Buy, it was even funnier.

[Brazil]

Diaw isn't a black guy with typical pent up slave rage. His black genes come his his Senegalese dad so he's more of a Francophone African (i.e. Diop, Sene, Petro). In my experiece, Francophone Africans are some of the most obnoxious and filthy ill-mannered, lazy people on the face of the Earth. State universities love employing them because they don't demand a high salary and can teach both French and African studies classes, and they're always the most universally hated professors at the school because of how inconsiderate and lazy they are as teachers.

:lol that's a lot of caricature tbh

[Bill_Brasky]

:lol when I used to play pickup basketball a lot, the brothas in their late 20s/early 30s loved to play with a blue toof in their ear. When I saw one of the guys who always did it worked at Best Buy, it was even funnier.

:lmao

[DMC]

Diaw isn't a black guy with typical pent up slave rage. His black genes come his his Senegalese dad so he's more of a Francophone African (i.e. Diop, Sene, Petro). In my experiece, Francophone Africans are some of the most obnoxious and filthy ill-mannered, lazy people on the face of the Earth. State universities love employing them because they don't demand a high salary and can teach both French and African studies classes, and they're always the most universally hated professors at the school because of how inconsiderate and lazy they are as teachers.

Yeah but he's been here long enough to have earned some reparation credits.

[FkLA]

You assume the null hypothesis until proven differently, this is one of the most basic logical concepts someone who's taking applied math classes should easily grasp. If you haven't learned this yet, you will in the basic stat class all engineering majors have to take.

Resorting to logical concepts. :lol

But if you wanna play like that, if variables are changed theres always the possibility of a different outcome. Thats a basic concept in a basic algebra class all accounting majors have to take. :rolleyes

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Resorting to logical concepts. :lol
:lmao yeah, arguments are generally based off logic and logical concepts. Thanks for admitting your aren't :tu

[benefactor]

Such a typical Fkla thread. He's got to be the most annoying poster to argue anything with the way he continually changes the parameters.

[FkLA]

:lmao yeah, arguments are generally based off logic and logical concepts. Thanks for admitting your aren't :tu

Arguments and most things in general are alot more complex than the retarded basic angle you took. You dont just completely ignore changes to other variables, disphit.

Did I end up being wrong about Diaw? Sure and Ive admitted that, but youre trying to somehow get at how ridiculous it was for me to take into account that Diaw was in a much more favorable situation with the Spurs...which led me to expect more out of him here than at other places. Which is just stupid on your part.

[FkLA]

Such a typical Fkla thread. He's got to be the most annoying poster to argue anything with the way he continually changes the parameters.

Such a typical bene post. Come in, quietly jack off another poster, and exit. :tu

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So you're admitting your illogical argument was wrong. Good job, you're making progress. Proud of you.

[DMC]

Resorting to logical concepts. :lol

But if you wanna play like that, if variables are changed theres always the possibility of a different outcome. Thats a basic concept in a basic algebra class all accounting majors have to take. :rolleyes

No, the term "always" implies an infinite number of outcomes but there are a fixed number of possible outcomes, otherwise you could not get any outcome as the odds for it would be infinitely impossible as well.

[FkLA]

I was busy engineering, faggot.

Anyways I always said Diaw on the Spurs, go back and read the earlier posts in this thread. Thats because I expected (wrongly) that playing on a team like the Spurs would bring out the best in him...that obviously hasnt been the case which Ive admitted. Not sure what else youre trying to get at tbh.


Read previous posts, I always said I liked what Diaw brought to the table on a team like the Spurs over what Lee did. Obviously it would make no sense on my part to argue strictly numbers and say 4-4>20-10. Or to compare them when theyre in two completely different situations in GS and SA, you need some type of hypotheticals to make the comparison make some sense...and I always said on a lottery team Lee is the better option because of Diaws laziness. On a team like the Spurs I took Diaw because I assumed he wouldnt be lazy.

I was wrong about him getting his shit together. Not seeing how the assumption is illogical though, its not like players that have a reputation of being lazy raising their games on good teams is unheard of.

Ive said Diaw fooled me and I expected (wrongly) things from him that havent panned out numerous times.

Your basic angle to how logic works is whats retarded. Youre trying to get at something else and its just stupid. You shouldve just taken the W and exited instead of basically arguing that other variables should never be taken into account. :lol

[benefactor]

I talking shit to you bitch...and no one else. You being dumb as shit has only to do with you. And :lol at you needing only one post to prove my point.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Ive said Diaw fooled me and I expected (wrongly) things from him that havent panned out numerous times.

Your basic angle to how logic works is whats retarded. Youre trying to get at something else and its just stupid. You shouldve just taken the W and exited instead of basically arguing that other variables should never be taken into account. :lol
You don't seem capable of making the distinction between "accounting for other variables" and "assuming the effect those other variables have". This isn't comparable to an algebra question, it's a logic question.

Diaw getting his act together was a possibility, and you treated it as a foregone conclusion. I never said it was a sure thing Diaw wouldn't get his act together like the strawman you're trying to create right now. If you seriously can't make this logical distinction then I pray for your future.

[FkLA]

I talking shit to you bitch...and no one else. You being dumb as shit has only to do with you. And :lol at you needing only one post to prove my point.

What exactly where you referring to with me 'changing parameters'? The original argument has been over, he was right and I was wrong there. Hes trying to get at something else. Thats not changing parameters dipshit. If youre gonna come in and talk shit to me have a reason behind it otherwise it comes off as you doing your usual jack off and exit routine.

[benefactor]

I'm not rehashing all of it because I've pretty much figured out arguing anything with you is a waste of keystrokes. Anyone who can read and has a reasonable amount of comprehension skills can go back and see it for what it is.

[FkLA]

You don't seem capable of making the distinction between "accounting for other variables" and "assuming the effect those other variables have". This isn't comparable to an algebra question, it's a logic question.

Diaw getting his act together was a possibility, and you treated it as a foregone conclusion. I never said it was a sure thing Diaw wouldn't get his act together like the strawman you're trying to create right now. If you seriously can't make this logical distinction then I pray for your future.

Youre trying to suggest it was ridiculous of me to account for those variables. and thus expect postive changes out of Diaw. Thats what youve been trying to ridicule this whole time.

[FkLA]

I'm not rehashing all of it because I've pretty much figured out arguing anything with you is a waste of keystrokes. Anyone who can read and has a reasonable amount of comprehension skills can go back and see it for what it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah faggot. Same old 'Im too good to even respond when Im wrong' bullshit. Not surprised.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Youre trying to suggest it was ridiculous of me to account for those variables. and thus expect postive changes out of Diaw. Thats what youve been trying to ridicule this whole time.

No, I'm ridiculing you for acting as if a possible scenario was a foregone conclusion, which is illogical.

[FkLA]

I did treat it as a foregone conclusion, and was wrong in doing so which Ive admitted about ten times already. Maybe it was the fact that it was in shorter doses or the fact that he was so much better than Blair/Bonner...but I liked what I saw out of him last season, didnt really lollygag the way he has at times this season despite being heavier. Nigga for sure fooled me, cause I was expecting bigger things from him.

Page 10. Why would you ridicule or call me out for something Ive conceded? Keep moving the goalposts though. :tu

Like I said you shouldve taken the W and exited. No need for your retarded basic logic argument.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Page 10. Why would you ridicule or call me out for something Ive conceded? Keep moving the goalposts though. :tu

Like I said you shouldve taken the W and exited. No need for your retarded basic logic argument.

I want you to admit it wasn't just wrong, but illogical too to treat a possible scenario as a foregone conclusion.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Either....

A) You agree treating possible scenarios as foregone conclusions is illogical

or

B) You think it's perfectly logical to treat possible scenarios are foregone conclusions

A or B. Simple question.

[FkLA]

I took something as a foregone conclusion when making my argument. That led to me ending up looking dumb and being completely wrong...what makes you think I would argue that treating it as a foregone conclusion made no sense on my part? Maybe I didnt explicitly say it but come on faggot its pretty much implied, that wasnt what you were attempting to ridicule.

Its a nice, subtle attempt to try to change your argument though, Ill give you a A for effort. :tu

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

A or B. Simple question.

No surprise, dodge city.

[ElNono]

Diaw is a fat fuck tbh. I honestly thought playing in an environment like the Spurs would bring out the best in him (which I would take over Lee), but dude just goes through the motions out there...he'll have a great 10, 5+, 5+ line here or there and then has an empty stat line the next game. Really unique skill set but just lazy as shit, cant believe I fell for this fat fucks tricks. :(


Diaw biggest problem is that he's lazy. He's been lazy his whole career. It's no surprise to see him struggling with something like rebounding, which is mostly hustle.

It's one of the main concerns going into this season for the Spurs, IMO. Now he got paid, will he get lazy again?

Heard it here first, tbh

[FkLA]

No surprise, dodge city.

Youre a faggot. :lol

Read my previous post again.


Heard it here first, tbh

I was aware of Diaws lazy tendencies, just thought being in the best environment hes ever been in (including Phoenix) would counter that. :(

[Jodelo]

Bump!


:lol David Lee averaging 20 11 54% shooting on an 18-9 team that's in the top half of the league defensively.....it's safe to say he's taking a wet shit on Diaw and FkLA :lol

[Raven]

David Lee secured his third career triple-double in Friday's win over the Bobcats, scoring 23 points on 11-of-16 shooting with 11 rebounds and 11 assists.

Lee has been a top-7 fantasy play over the past two weeks and a top-15 play on the year as the Warriors have jumped all over a cupcake schedule to start the season. Their next 16 opponents have won about 60 percent of their games, and Lee's defense is still among league's worst at his position. We doubt his numbers fall below an early round level, but owners may want to test the waters and see if they can get a top-20 player in return.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Spurfan, still going with unquantifiable arguments :lol

"His defense is weally weally bad! Diaw is a Spur, so that automatically means he's a great defender!"

[Amuseddaysleeper]

DuncanownsKobe my main man.

We gotta revisit Bosh vs Amare one more time ;)

But yeah, Lee >>>>> Boris

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

DuncanownsKobe my main man.

We gotta revisit Bosh vs Amare one more time ;)

But yeah, Lee >>>>> Boris
There's nothing to revisit.

Amare is done :cry

[Raven]

Spurfan, still going with unquantifiable arguments :lol

"His defense is weally weally bad! Diaw is a Spur, so that automatically means he's a great defender!"

well, he's playing with festus freaking ezeli and still getting shitted on for his D.. he's playing great yeah, but at least wait a statistically relevant amount of games..

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

His team is in the top half of the league defensively. The chances of it are slim, but if Bogut ever comes back healthy Golden State will be much better on defense as a healthy Bogut is one of the best defensive anchors in the NBA.

What is in your mind a statistically relevant amount of games? Be specific.

[FkLA]

Exactly, everybody has stupid takes. Amare > Bosh was pretty stupid, the Rodrigue Beaubois being the Mavs next franchise player take by pretty much every mavfan was also ridiculously stupid. Only difference is dick riders like bene would never dare question or laugh at one of DoKs or a mavfans takes.

Lee is still overrated though tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

In 2010 Amare > Bosh wasn't stupid at all. Saying Amare > Bosh present day would be pretty stupid though.

The Roddy Bukkake nut hugging was (and still is) pretty fuckin hilarious though

[Raven]

His team is in the top half of the league defensively. The chances of it are slim, but if Bogut ever comes back healthy Golden State will be much better on defense as a healthy Bogut is one of the best defensive anchors in the NBA.

What is in your mind a statistically relevant amount of games? Be specific.

well i actually consider the warriors roster to be very good starter-wise too bad bogut is as injury prone as it gets... statistically relevant - a season or at least 3/4...

[FkLA]

Didnt that take entail that the former was better to build around than the latter or something like that, since IIRC according to you the Suns made a mistake by letting him go.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Didnt that take entail that the former was better to build around than the latter or something like that, since IIRC according to you the Suns made a mistake by letting him go.

The argument was that Amare was better than Bosh.

As far as the Suns, they haven't made the playoffs since they let him go after he took them within 2 games of the NBA finals and now they're one of the worst teams in the Western Conference with a huge hole at PF. They would have been much better off resigning him and then amnestying him if his health deteriorated like it has in NY. There's a large chance it wouldn't have given Phoenix's training staff.

:lmao turning Diaw vs. Lee into Amare vs. Bosh because you ran out of ways to defend your retarded opinion

[benefactor]

:lol using your imaginary poster hierarchy to justify your shittiness
:lol could publish a 10 volume shit take encyclopedia set with your posts

[timtonymanu]

Boris Diaw is making me relive the Richard Jefferson era while David Lee is having an MVP season and helping the Warriors become a playoff team.

Yeah, Boris was and still is better.

[timtonymanu]

That Grey Spurs Fan troll is funny. How did I miss that one? :lol

[Paranoid Pop]

Bump, they face off tonight.

[Clipper Nation]

Watch Diaw shit on Lee just for the hell of it :lol

[jeebus]

Diaw: 0-1 FG, 2 points, 2 rebs

Lee: 8-17 FG, 25 points, 22 rebs

Diaw > Lee

[Bill_Brasky]

A certain UTSA janitorial engineering major will be avoiding this thread like the plague after tonight

[Kulo]

Why is this a thread?

[FkLA]

http://i.imgur.com/UzcNPmI.jpg
:cry GOAT stad padder:cry

[FkLA]

Boris Diaw is not any better of a defender than Diaw. This is a classic GNSF fallacy of assuming a player who plays for the Spurs is a much better defender than a player who doesn't play for the Spurs.

:lmao

[benefactor]

There is no scenario, year, fatness, thinness, that would make Diaw better than Lee as a player.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i swear man the clowns upstairs overrate their own shit players who benefits from playing within the system...

if they are that good, they could excel in any system, but apparently they dont cause they are 1 dimensional players only good at certain skillset that is bread and butter for them...

[FkLA]

There is no scenario, year, fatness, thinness, that would make Diaw better than Lee as a player.

What if I told you even DoK said he would take the top form Diaw that played for the Suns over Lee...would you then change your stance to agree with popular opinion? And yeah Lees piss poor defense doesnt make Diaw better than him this year but it does show how gullible ST is by glorifying a stat padder. Bunch of you came in to defend DoKs take that Lees defense wasnt that bad. :lol

[benefactor]

No...I wouldn't agree with him. Diaw has never been better than Lee...never was and never will be.

[monosylab1k]

:lmao Lee drops 25 and 22 and you have the audacity to try and defend yourself in this thread.

:cry he stat padded, they didn't need all those points and rebounds to win a closely contested game in overtime :cry

[monosylab1k]

rofl duncan/splitter/blair go a combined 11-26 from the field on Lee's piss poor defense. :cry if Diaw was defending them they might not have made any shots at all :cry

[benefactor]

Yeah...he wasn't that bad at all last night. Having a coach that stresses it seems to have done him a lot of good.

[FkLA]

No...I wouldn't agree with him. Diaw has never been better than Lee...never was and never will be.

Thats a stupid take.


rofl duncan/splitter/blair go a combined 11-26 from the field on Lee's piss poor defense. :cry if Diaw was defending them they might not have made any shots at all :cry

Yeah...he wasn't that bad at all last night. Having a coach that stresses it seems to have done him a lot of good.

Are you guys really this stupid? That graphic is for this whole season. I would hate to see how good opponents would shoot against him if he didnt have a coach that stressed defense. :lol

[monosylab1k]

I'm just saying the one day he drops 25 and 22 on your team in an overtime win, while your best interior scorers go a combined 11 for 26, it might not be a bad idea to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzqCFL5To3M

[FkLA]

Nice dodge. The youtube vid was a nice finishing touch tbh. :tu

[monosylab1k]

:lmao as if bringing up charts about Lee's defense the day after he took a steaming shit all over your team and your beloved 6 and 4 French machine is anything but a dodge.

[FkLA]

A dodge of what retard? I conceded a while back that Lee is better. Im just saying hes really overrated by gullible niggas like you.

[Brunodf]

:lolThis thread

[benefactor]

You act like Diaw was some sort of elite defender. He's middle of the pack. Lee being below him in that area doesn't really mean much because Lee is about a hundred times more beneficial on offense...and leave Diaw's passing out of it because for every pass he makes he passes up a shot he should have taken. He's been that way his whole career.

[benefactor]

Call me when Lee get's fat and get's benched.

[monosylab1k]

A dodge of what retard? I conceded a while back that Lee is better. Im just saying hes really overrated by gullible niggas like you.

When have i overrated him? I said he puts up 20/10 and he's better than Boris Diaw. Those are fucking facts :lmao

[FkLA]

You act like Diaw was some sort of elite defender. He's middle of the pack. Lee being below him in that area doesn't really mean much because Lee is about a hundred times more beneficial on offense...and leave Diaw's passing out of it because for every pass he makes he passes up a shot he should have taken. He's been that way his whole career.

Nope, Im not acting like hes anything more than average. I always said the exact same thing you just did, actually. My point was that middle of the pack is a whole lot better than the worst in the NBA. You telling me there isnt a huge difference between someone like Blair/Diaw for instance? How many times do I have to say I was wrong and that Lee is the better player too? I posted that graphic to show just how overrated Lee is not because I think that makes Diaw better.

[Mayhem321]

Not even 06 playoffs??
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diawbo01/gamelog/2006/#pgl_basic_playoffs::none

BTW i think Lee is much better than Diaw

[FkLA]

When have i overrated him? I said he puts up 20/10 and he's better than Boris Diaw. Those are fucking facts :lmao

Pretty sure you were in the 'lol gnsf fallacy that overrates Diaws D and underrates Lees D' camp. Being better than Diaw isnt saying much, putting up 20-10 is nice but when youre the worst interior defender in the NBA you take a huge hit. Nigga is certainly overrated and overpaid tbh.


Not even 06 playoffs??
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diawbo01/gamelog/2006/#pgl_basic_playoffs::none

:cry he didnt put up 20-10 :cry

[benefactor]

Not even 06 playoffs??
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/diawbo01/gamelog/2006/#pgl_basic_playoffs::none

BTW i think Lee is much better than Diaw
Look at Leandro Barbosa's numbers for those same playoffs. You would have thought he was a solid SG if you didn't already know that he's horrible.

D'Antoni gimmick system tbh.

[irishock]

I pick Diaw :toast

:lmao

[FkLA]

What a stupid take. :lol

Barbosa was a dumb, streaky scorer for those Suns team. Not much else. It doesnt take a genius to see that Diaw brought alot more to the table than that. We are all wrong sometimes tbh.

[Bobby Boucher]

and diaw was a dumb streaky scorer who could pass the ball a little, WOW huge difference.

[benefactor]

A very productive, dumb, streaky scorer...much like Diaw was productive. Not comparing the two players, I'm simply pointing out the obvious production inflation by D'Antoni's gimmicky system. Are you saying D'Antoni's system did not inflate the numbers of his players?

[Edward]

I like this thing FkLA does where when multiple people call him retarded he lashes out with, "You're just blindly kissing DoK's ass!" as if the ONLY way multiple people could disagree with him is a DoK conspiracy against FkLA because he's so convinced his opinions are that brilliant and no way multiple people could disagree with them unless it was a conspiracy.

[benefactor]

Btw...it's a bit hypocritical to call Lee a stat padder then support an argument where Diaw was pointed out as very productive in a system that wholeheartedly encouraged stat padding.

[Edward]

It doesn't make any fuckin sense to call Lee a stat padder in response to a game his team won in overtime. The usage of the stat padder argument after that game was mind blowing.

[Edward]

Even overweight a motivated Diaw still has a unique skillset, and is more useful on a good team than the skillset of a player like Lee imo.

This quote pretty much debunks any claim FkLA tries to make that all he was saying is that Diaw when in shape and playing motivated is better than Lee.

[Bill_Brasky]

:lmao

This dipshit :lol

[monosylab1k]

This dipshit :lol

irishock is basically lefty back before lefty realized he was lefty.

[jeebus]

I am quite pleased with myself for bumping this thread.

[GoodOdor]

Fkla, sees a tiny ray of light in the distance, he makes a grab for it, he misses, falls on his fat, usta retarded face once again.


Shouldn't have doubled down on retard, son.

[irishock]

This dipshit :lol

:lmao no need to get this emotional over a shit take

[Bill_Brasky]

:lmao no need to get this emotional over a shit take

Are you really that stupid?

[Juggity]

Diaw is probably a better defender than David Lee. I'd still rather have Lee on the Spurs in a backup role than Diaw.

[irishock]

Are you really that stupid?

Oh shit :cry

[FkLA]

I like this thing FkLA does where when multiple people call him retarded he lashes out with, "You're just blindly kissing DoK's ass!" as if the ONLY way multiple people could disagree with him is a DoK conspiracy against FkLA because he's so convinced his opinions are that brilliant and no way multiple people could disagree with them unless it was a conspiracy.

Did a bunch of people not come to your defense that Lees defense wasnt that bad only for it to turn out that hes the worst interior defender in the league? :lol


It doesn't make any fuckin sense to call Lee a stat padder in response to a game his team won in overtime. The usage of the stat padder argument after that game was mind blowing.

Who said it was in response to this last game? That graphic is for the whole season. And iif a guy is the worst interior defender in the NBA yet has nice stats then he kind of is a stat whore tbh.

[FkLA]

This quote pretty much debunks any claim FkLA tries to make that all he was saying is that Diaw when in shape and playing motivated is better than Lee.

An overweight Diaw can still be effective, yes. But why are you trying to make it about an argument that Ive already conceded? :lol

How about you instead explain to us how it was 'gnsf fallacy' to consider Diaw a better defender than Lee? How it was so hilarious and homerish to say Lee was a terrible defender ?

[Raven]

Lee is the only big man i can remember that doesn't try to make the shooter's work harder, instead positions himself to take the reb if he misses.. lol.

[AaronY]

David Lee is horrible. He's better than Diaw but thats no accomplishment. His teams haven't been better with him on the court versus off it for years now


People...don't know this about David Lee because he's a nice guy says all the right things, is a good interview etc. but he has absolutely no interest in defense and is regularly one of the worst defenders in the NBA. Look at his opponent counterpart numbers from the past two years:
http://www.82games.com/1011/10GSW14.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/11GSW12.HTM

Guys literally average 20/15 per 48, while shooting well over 50%, with around a 20 per against him. Like this isn't his numbers against good players this is his numbers against opponents overall.

In other words the average player becomes an all star at the mere sight of David Lee.

Lol @ this thread gmafb


This even understates his horried defense as I remember reading an article where they talked about his synergy numbers and his hel;p defense was even worse. Basically if not involved in the play he's content to just chill on the weak defense and let the other guys deal with it he can
t be bothered to rotate and take a charge and despite being a good leaper he is one of the worst shot blocking big men in the league. About the on;y gppd thing he does at that end of the court is defensive rebound

New research presented at the Sloan Conference breaking down David Lee aka The NBA's Worst Defender: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/52811/courtvision-david-lees-interior-defense-a-k-a-the-golden-gate

http://nba.si.com/2013/03/04/the-fundamentals-with-advance-stats-stuck-in-neutral-focus-shifts-to-process/

[AaronY]

pdf: http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/The%20Dwight%20Effect%20A%20New%20Ensemble%20of%20 Interior%20Defense%20Analytics%20for%20the%20NBA.p df

[AaronY]

Lee is the only big man i can remember that doesn't try to make the shooter's work harder, instead positions himself to take the reb if he misses.. lol.

lol see above.

Diaw's shittiness is irrelevant to all this analysis of Lee btw

[Raven]

lol see above.

Diaw's shittiness is irrelevant to all this analysis of Lee btw

update: amir johnson scores 10-10 for 23 points and bargnani goes off for 26 against who? :rollin

[Reck]

Oh shit :cry

Billy was trolling tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Thats been my point the whole time, which is why you take his 20-10 with a grain of salt cause he wouldnt put those kind of stats on good teams..
You're right, he dropped from 20 11 to 18 11 now that he's on a good team. I'm sure that's what you meant here^, Juan.


I love how mavs>spurs ignores the fact that I conceded long ago that Lee is way better at staying motivated and stat-padding on shit teams. Lee put up 20-10 on a fast paced GS team with a bunch of injuries where he was likely the 2nd option; something he wouldnt be on a good team. Especially not if he was thrown into the Spurs mid-season.
He's the 2nd option on a team that's 44-33 and headed to the playoffs. I'm sure when you said good team, you meant 50+ wins tho, right Juan?


Lees numbers/usage will dip (especially in the post) just with Boguts return.
His numbers really took a dive this year, Juan. Good call.


Will bump this sometime next season when Diaw comes into camp with 10% BF and puts up 10, 7, and 3+ tbh :toast
Diaw's averages this season: 5.8, 3.4, 2.4 :lmao. You almost had the 3+ assists part right tho!


Lee has never been on a good team, youre using a hypothetical yourself. And thats really the only way to compare players that are in two completely different situations...I dont see why me using reasonable hypotheticals is a big deal.
Lee's putting up 19 and 11 on a good team. How did my hypothetical work out, Juan?


Lets just bump this mid-season though. Boris will prove me right yet again tbh. :toast
:lmao how's that working out, Juan?


Actually Spurs' midseason aquisitions getting limited minutes in the past suggests that his minutes would get slashed. Your assumption that Diaw only played 20 mpg because hes a 'fat slob' incapable of playing more is what has no basis considering he was playing ~35 mpg, 80+ games/yr in Charlotte. :lol
Diaw this year: 22.8 minutes per game. Pop clearly just kept his minutes down cause he was new to the team!


And yeah, I know Lee averages like 20 ppg but so did Richard Jefferson at some point. If someday Lee is able to make it to at least a semi-decent team and performs this way I might change my mind but 'till then I can't.
Have you changed you mind yet, you filthy nazi loving sp!c?


Is DUNCANownsKOBE (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=26386) really acting like if saying that Diaw is better than Lee some amazing dumb homerish thing to do?
:lmao yes, I am.




:lmao FkLA
:lmao DAF86
:lmao latin american sp!c dumbshits

[FkLA]

http://i.imgur.com/UzcNPmI.jpg

^Whats your take on this my Jewish amigo? Yes, I know it doesnt make Diaw better than him as Ive conceded long ago but other than that what do you think about it. I seem to recall you ignoring it like the plague when it first came to light.

Dont blame you for continuing to bump this even if Ive conceded though, since its extremely rare to get a W over FkLA tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

http://i.imgur.com/UzcNPmI.jpg

^Whats your take on this my Jewish amigo? Yes, I know it doesnt make Diaw better than him as Ive conceded long ago but other than that what do you think about it. I seem to recall you ignoring it like the plague when it first came to light.

Dont blame you for continuing to bump this even if Ive conceded though, since its extremely rare to get a W over FkLA tbh.

My take is that chart regarding Diaw is left off for some mysterious reason.

My take is also that it's hilarious you're ignoring all the retarded shit I just quoted you filthy be@ner. Enjoy life as a telemarketer :lol

[Nathan89]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSrOzP64mYU&feature=youtu.be

This has to count for something imho

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Defensive Rating this year:
Diaw: 104
Lee: 104

When Lee leaves the court, his team's defensive rating improves by 1.1 points per 100 possessions
When Diaw leaves the court, his team's defensive rating improves by 4.2 points per 100 possessions

David Lee: 3.5 defensive win shares
Boris Diaw: 2.3 defensive win shares

[FkLA]

Are you suggesting Diaw isnt a better defender than Lee again? :lol

And why would I respond dumbshit, so that I can say I was wrong for literally like the 50th time? Is your ass really that sore ?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Are you suggesting Diaw isnt a better defender than Lee again? :lol

See above Juan

[FkLA]

See above Juan

So you are suggesting that, Aharon (<--thats funny bc youre a Jew lmao crofl)? :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

So you are suggesting that, Ahron (<--thats funny bc youre a Jew lmao crofl)? :lol

yes I am, Juan.

What the fuck is Ahron, is that the name of a Jewish guy who pays your dad for landscaping services?

[Blake]

since its extremely rare to get a W over FkLA tbh.

If by extremely rare you mean extremely easy then I'd agree.

[FkLA]

You think Boris Diaw allows opponents to shoot 60% from just about every spot in the post? :lol

Yeah thats exactly where its from, Aharon!! :lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

You think Boris Diaw allows opponents to shoot 60% from just about every spot in the post? :lol

The numbers say lee doesn't either, Juan.

Cool chart though, it looks really cool. The coloring scheme is awesome.

[FkLA]

If by extremely rare you mean extremely easy then I'd agree.

You mustve been one hundred times as butthurt with your wife after she cucked you, huh? Bet you tried to take shots at her every chance tbh.

[FkLA]

The numbers say lee doesn't either, Juan.

Cool chart though, it looks really cool. The coloring scheme is awesome.

What numbers? The ones that include rebounding or is strongly influenced by teammates ?

Are you saying that cool graphic isnt true? :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

What numbers? The ones that include rebounding or is strongly influenced by teammates ?

Are you saying that cool graphic isnt true? :lol
I'm saying it's outdated if it is true. It also is strongly influenced by teammates.

You still haven't provided Diaw's nifty little chart.

[FkLA]

I'm saying it's outdated if it is true. It also is strongly influenced by teammates.

You still haven't provided Diaw's nifty little chart.

Its outdated by about a month and a half. You think Lee became a better defender during that span? I dont have to provide Diaws cool graphic either because even if Diaw sucked hes not the worst, Lee is. :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Its outdated by about a month and a half. You think Lee became a better defender during that span? I dont have to provide Diaws cool graphic either because even if Diaw sucked hes not the worst, Lee is. :lol

It's outdated because the numbers say Lee doesn't give up 60% shooting.

Why not provide Diaw's graph, you seem really confident it'll prove you right.

[FkLA]

What numbers ?

Why would I need to provide a graph to show Diaw is better than the worst? You look for it if you think it will prove Lee isnt the worst tbh.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

What numbers ?

Why would I need to provide a graph to show Diaw is better than the worst? You look for it if you think it will prove Lee isnt the worst tbh.

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/The%20Dwight%20Effect%20A%20New%20Ensemble%20of%20 Interior%20Defense%20Analytics%20for%20the%20NBA.p df

Lee is the worst of the players on the list. Diaw isn't even on the list so there's really no way of telling :lol

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Actually the ONE list in that report Diaw made, he was ranked lower than Lee :lmao

[FkLA]

Yeah, look at what column is decreasing. Out of all the shots Diaw faced (make or miss) he faced a smaller percentage than David Lee did from within 5 feet. That must mean Lee is a better defender or atleast not any worse than Diaw!!

[FkLA]

Figure 3: Opponents' field goal percentages vary widely depending on which interior defender is close to the basket. Milwaukee's Larry
Sanders is one of the most effective interior defenders in the league; opponents struggle to score when he is near the basket. This is not the
case with Golden State’s David Lee; when he is close to the basket, opponents score at very high efficiencies.

That is from that figure. Those appendixes you looked at serve a purpose but not the one youre looking for, try again amigo.



Table 1: The top and bottom 5 interior defenders according to proximal FG%, which is defined as the opponent’s FG% when the
qualifying defender is within 5 feet of the shot attempt


That is from another table were Lee comes in 3rd to last.

Read the limitations section, there is no exclusion of any player when coming up with the numbers for the figure and table. The appendixes simply break down what kind of shots are being defended and the percentages...the 'list were Diaw was lower' that you saw was just an expanded list. But it actually proves Diaw was included in the study (figure and table) since they have a record of the shots he faced. Way to make yourself look like a fool dumbass nigga. :lol

[DAF86]

Have you changed you mind yet, you filthy nazi loving sp!c?

Nope, I still think that:


David Lee isn't one of those special talents that you know for sure would do ok on every team he plays for.

[monosylab1k]

Boris Diaw must be a mav krew nuthugger tbh :cry he's playing like ass just to make Fkla look bad :cry

[FkLA]

Where you at you retarded Jew. You too much of a faggot to take your L like a man ?

[DAF86]

Would this Warriors team be better off with Diaw instead of Lee?

I mean, if Warriors fans think that they are better with nobody instead of Lee, I think Diaw could top that.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1248800&sid=8dd5bdc905a1e1513d454743656ac015

[DAF86]

They are all asking to trade Lee for a stretch 4, I wonder if Diaw could fit that role.

[Raven]

is someone ready to apologise?

[TDMVPDPOY]

diaw is only good if he fkn shoots the ball instead of beinga passive bitch on offense

last night bogut didnt even bother to cover him or anyone on the switch that was hovering around the perimeter, he doesnt run out or do anything besides dare the player to shoot, parker and diaw took their chances and live with it...

[FkLA]

Laughing at people that put this faggot on a pedestal tbh. He may be better than a fat, lazy, passive Diaw but that isnt really saying much.

:lol worst interior defender in the nba
:lol stat queen
:lol has his biggest impact against non-playoff teams
:lol albatross of a contract

[DAF86]

How I wish David "the ultimate cancer" Lee was playing this series, tbh.

[FkLA]

No way, Lee is way better. Hes a 20-10 machine, Bogut cant even hit a damn FT and I dont even know who the fuck Draymond Green is. :lmao

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Laughing at people that put this faggot on a pedestal tbh. He may be better than a fat, lazy, passive Diaw but that isnt really saying much.

So then you were still wrong :lol

:lmao Diaw > Lee
:lmao moving the goal posts to "Diaw might be worse but Lee is still bad so I'm still right!"
:lmao him only getting 8 minutes after game 1

[FkLA]

Yeah, it makes perfect sense to assume that was the point of my point.

:lol refusing to admit just how much you overrated the 20-10 machine

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Yeah, it makes perfect sense to assume that was the point of my point.

:lol refusing to admit just how much you overrated the 20-10 machine
:lmao I said he was better than Diaw which you admitted was true

[FkLA]

Sure. You didnt compare it to Melo-RJ homerish takes or anything like that.

[spurraider21]

:downspin:

[Venti Quattro]

:lol Boris Diaw

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:downspin:

:lol premature ejaculation

[jeebus]

:lol Boris Diaw

[Juggity]

I'm actually sold on this notion now. Better to have Diaw on your team than Lee.

[Raven]

i think this thread deserves a bump now that the warriors are 11-2 and Lee is about to return.

[midnightpulp]

FKLA with the ballsiest take in ST history.

[monosylab1k]

FKLA with the ballsiest take in ST history.

Its was comically wrong then, and still is.

[midnightpulp]

Its was comically wrong then, and still is.

Boris is the more versatile passer and defender. With stretch 4s now being a fixture on any good team, I think a player like Diaw, who can conceivably guard 3 through 5, is more valuable to a team than Lee.

Where's Harlem with the stats. I'd like to see a comparison of how each player guards perimeter oriented bigs (Dirk, LMA, last year's Bosh, etc).

[100%duncan]

:lol

[scanry]

It's like everything fell into place for FKLA this past season. :lol I'll say this though, David Lee will never have a game like the one Diaw did in OKC.

My boy Venti sucked DoK's dry tbh. :lol

[Henrik Sedin]

Its was comically wrong then, and still is.

Lol you're such a retard

[tlongII]

I have to go with Boris since Lee is always injured.

[ambchang]

Even as a Spurs fan, I will have to go with David Lee as a better player.

Some players are great on bad teams, and some are good on great teams.

Lee, as bad as he is defensively, and as much as a stat padder as he is, can be the centerpiece of a very bad team. You can run your offense through him, or have him as a legit 2nd option, and have him lead the team to 25-35 wins. Boris can't do that.

Boris, however, can fit into a great system, and use his smarts, passing, and unusual skills to complement a great team and make it better. Lee can't do that.

As an individual player, Lee is the better player though.

[FkLA]

David Lee can be a centerpiece on a bad team in the same way whoever is the best player on the 6ers is a centerpiece.

I think Boris would abuse Lee in one-on-one too. So I'm not buying that individually hes better BS either.

[spurraider21]

i usually don't consider homer takes to be ballsy, but i grant an exception for this one. FkLA stuck with this one and defended it to death

:bobo

[ElNono]

ball don't lie

[lefty]

Forgot about David Lee tbh

[spurraider21]

Forgot about David Lee tbh
who?

[DAF86]

Even as a Spurs fan, I will have to go with David Lee as a better player.

Some players are great on bad teams, and some are good on great teams.

Lee, as bad as he is defensively, and as much as a stat padder as he is, can be the centerpiece of a very bad team. You can run your offense through him, or have him as a legit 2nd option, and have him lead the team to 25-35 wins. Boris can't do that.

Boris, however, can fit into a great system, and use his smarts, passing, and unusual skills to complement a great team and make it better. Lee can't do that.

As an individual player, Lee is the better player though.

Many considered Diaw to be the best player of a very decent Bobcats team, tbh. This past summer Diaw was the best player of a French team that would probably be a 25-35 wins team on the NBA.

[ambchang]

Many considered Diaw to be the best player of a very decent Bobcats team, tbh. This past summer Diaw was the best player of a French team that would probably be a 25-35 wins team on the NBA.

International game is a different game. Just like MVPau became GOATPau and Ginobili became Jordan, West, Magic all rolled into one.

That Bobcats team won 7 games out of 66 the year Diaw was traded. The two years before, Gerald Wallace and Stephen Jackson were both better.

[Malik Hairston]

The comparison will be tested this season, tbh..

David Lee is going to return as the 6th man for the Warriors, it'll be interesting to see how he looks in the Diaw role..it will be the first time in his career that he's asked to play a role on a winning team, rather than put up numbers on shitty teams..if they trade him first, then that's a terrible sign, obviously..

[in2deep]

Lee is a china doll. Sure if he was not broken most of the time he probably would be better than Diaw. But reality is that since Lee is a soft porcelain doll, Diaw is the better option in a championship contender

[unleashbaynes]

boris diaw is a better basketball player than david lee. period.

[in2deep]

And even if you ignore durability. Diaw is the better passer, higher ball IQ, better ball handler, better man defender, better shooter, and better post player.

lee is just more athletic better rebounder and better shot blocker.

Even then Diaw is probably better

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I think Diaw is the better, more skilled, player. He has been on good teams for the bigger part of his career, unlike Lee. Diaw just couldn't be bothered to stat pad when on a bad team. Perhaps you could point to this motivation issue as a huge problem but put it this way, if the Spurs had traded Diaw for Lee a couple of years ago, they most likely don't have 5 right now.

[Jodelo]

Even as a Spurs fan, I will have to go with David Lee as a better player.

Some players are great on bad teams, and some are good on great teams.

Lee, as bad as he is defensively, and as much as a stat padder as he is, can be the centerpiece of a very bad team. You can run your offense through him, or have him as a legit 2nd option, and have him lead the team to 25-35 wins. Boris can't do that.

Boris, however, can fit into a great system, and use his smarts, passing, and unusual skills to complement a great team and make it better. Lee can't do that.

As an individual player, Lee is the better player though.