Romney Says He Paid at Least 13% in Income Taxes

[ElNono]

Romney Says He Paid at Least 13% in Income Taxes (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/17/us/politics/romney-says-he-paid-at-least-13-percent-in-income-taxes.html?hp)

:lol

scott was spot on... he ain't dodging this one. Might aswell let it all come out early and deal with it.

[Clipper Nation]

Willard says a lot of things, but until he releases the full tax returns, there's no reason to believe anything he says about his taxes, tbh....

[mercos]

lol thinking the press was going to let this go. The Paul Ryan pick bought him a week. Now the vultures are circling again. He'll either release the tax cuts, or the press will bury him with the issue.

[Jacob1983]

Willard Kolob Romney is filthy rich. Get the fuck over it.

[ElNono]

tbh, I don't think there's anything wrong or illegal with his taxes... but a race that doesn't delve into cheapshots, smear and ankle-biting from both sides would be a first...

[LnGrrrR]

Look at that picture :lol

"Seniors, Obama is going to raise your taxes! Please vote for me!"

[symple19]

Willard Kolob Romney is filthy rich. Get the fuck over it.

I laugh every time I see that pic of barry in your sig :lol

[mavs>spurs]

Willard Kolob Romney is filthy rich. Get the fuck over it.

I'll take the guy who's a proven success over the guy who's never even had a real job.

[boutons_deux]

Gecko must have plenty to hide and that why he's obsessively secretive.

Best to assume he's lying until he exposes his IRS, MA governor,and Olympic records.

[mavs>spurs]

Eh, Obama has never released an unaltered birth certificate or his college information from columbia.

He must have plenty to hide and that's why he's obsessively secretive.

[leemajors]

http://duanegraham.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/romney-and-kennedy-tax-returns.jpg?w=300&h=209

[Wild Cobra]

Eh, Obama has never released an unaltered birth certificate or his college information from columbia.

He must have plenty to hide and that's why he's obsessively secretive.
Yes. I understand you perfectly... your thoughts...

If Romney has nothing to hide... or... should I say that nobody needs a fourth amendment right since anyone following the law has nothing to hide.

Why do you hate the constitution?

[boutons_deux]

"anyone following the law has nothing to hide"

so why doesn't he expose his finances?

and why did he hide or destroy his MA governor and Olympic records?

My bet is that he is hiding $Ms from the IRS, or got caught in the amnesty program for having a secret Swiss bank accnt, and probably hiding $Ms from the Mormons, while Queen Anne sanctimoniously tells You People they pay 10% of "everything" to the Mormons.

[Wild Cobra]

"anyone following the law has nothing to hide"

so why doesn't he expose his finances?

and why did he hide or destroy his MA governor and Olympic records?

My bet is that he is hiding $Ms from the IRS, or got caught in the amnesty program for having a secret Swiss bank accnt, and probably hiding $Ms from the Mormons, while Queen Anne sanctimoniously tells You People they pay 10% of "everything" to the Mormons.
No, you miss my point. I'm saying the attitude of you liberals that "anyone following the law has nothing to hide," is unethical to expect. You guys want to throw out the fourth amendment if you have that attitude as a way to pressure someone.

[mavs>spurs]

Yes. I understand you perfectly... your thoughts...

If Romney has nothing to hide... or... should I say that nobody needs a fourth amendment right since anyone following the law has nothing to hide.

Why do you hate the constitution?

Huh? I think you are confused as I am a staunch constitutionalist. I was mocking boutons for being on romneys nuts about his taxes.

I think Romney should release them when Obama releases an unaltered birth certificate and his college records from columbia. As in, not gonna happen.

I don't get the big fuss anyway. Let's stop demonizing success before we head down a slippery slope. Romney made a bunch of money and enjoyed lower tax brackets of only 13%. Thus is the system..what was he supposed to do, volunteer to pay extra for fun?

[Wild Cobra Kai]

Q: How can you tell if a politician is lying?
A: Their lips are moving...

[Wild Cobra]

Huh? I think you are confused as I am a staunch constitutionalist. I was mocking boutons for being on romneys nuts about his taxes.

I think Romney should release them when Obama releases an unaltered birth certificate and his college records from columbia. As in, not gonna happen.

I don't get the big fuss anyway. Let's stop demonizing success before we head down a slippery slope. Romney made a bunch of money and enjoyed lower tax brackets of only 13%. Thus is the system..what was he supposed to do, volunteer to pay extra for fun?
Yes, I did misunderstood.

Sorry.

[Wild Cobra]

Q: How can you tell if a politician is lying?
A: Their lips are moving...
Ha. Ha.

Just jhjow old is that one? probably as old as:

Q: What is the definition of a politician.

A: Professional liar.

[jack sommerset]

Eh, Obama has never released an unaltered birth certificate or his college information from columbia.

He must have plenty to hide and that's why he's obsessively secretive.

This. Our board democrats are huge hypocrites. In this age of scandal and put downs, this is all they can come up with on Mitt. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. El nono and his bromance with Scott is cute. God bless

[coyotes_geek]

Willard Kolob Romney is filthy rich. Get the fuck over it.

Would be nice, but this campaign has devolved into talking about anything except anything that's actually relevent or important.

[boutons_deux]

Would be nice, but this campaign has devolved into talking about anything except anything that's actually relevent or important.

this week, EXCEPTIONALLY, the campaign was all about the all-important Medicare. Basically, Repugs throwing LIES and SLANDER at Obamacare, and LYING about R&RCare.

[Clipper Nation]

Willard Kolob Romney is filthy rich. Get the fuck over it.

The outrage isn't that he's rich, it's that he spent his time as governor proposing a shitload of tax hikes and now won't prove he was paying his "fair share" during that time....

[TeyshaBlue]

lol. Flaming hypocrites. :facepalm

Quick question? What was Obama's tax rate? How did it stack up against his staff's rates?

/thread

[Clipper Nation]

No, you miss my point. I'm saying the attitude of you liberals that "anyone following the law has nothing to hide," is unethical to expect. You guys want to throw out the fourth amendment if you have that attitude as a way to pressure someone.

Nobody's forcing him to reveal the tax returns, just asking him to back up his claims, tbh.... he's running for public office, he should expect this shit, tbh...

[TeyshaBlue]

:hint. Obama's rate is quite a bit lower than mine.

[jack sommerset]

Nobody's forcing him to reveal the tax returns, just asking him to back up his claims, tbh.... he's running for public office, he should expect this shit, tbh...

Now we are on to a little something something, what claims are you speaking of? God bless

[leemajors]

Now we are on to a little something something, what claims are you speaking of? God bless

Thinking's not your strong suit, just pray for an answer.

[jack sommerset]

“I’m not a business,” Romney. “We have a process in this country, which was established by law, which provides for the transparency which candidates are required to meet. I have met with that requirement with full financial disclosure of all my investments, but in addition have provided and will provide a full two years of tax returns.”

God bless

[George Gervin's Afro]

“I’m not a business,” Romney. “We have a process in this country, which was established by law, which provides for the transparency which candidates are required to meet. I have met with that requirement with full financial disclosure of all my investments, but in addition have provided and will provide a full two years of tax returns.”

God bless

Well if Romney says so..lol

[jack sommerset]

Thinking's not your strong suit, just pray for an answer.

I'll pray for you . Thinking may not be your strong point, brother. I know why Mitt doesn't give all his tax information cuz he told us. Now if you know something else, please let us in on it. No what ifs please. God bless

[jack sommerset]

Well if Romney says so..lol

You as well, brother. Please let us know why without the what ifs. God bless

[George Gervin's Afro]

You as well, brother. Please let us know why without the what ifs. God bless

Well sister if he he implements Ryan's budget then those making 30000 or less will have their taxes raised while everyone else gets a tax cut...so let the man show us what he pays before raising the taxes of those who can least afford it. God would support taxing the poorest whole leaving the wealthiset with tax breaks....

Jon tesh

[jack sommerset]

Well sister if he he implements Ryan's budget then those making 30000 or less will have their taxes raised while everyone else gets a tax cut...so let the man show us what he pays before raising the taxes of those who can least afford it. God would support taxing the poorest whole leaving the wealthiset with tax breaks....

Jon tesh

What ifs. Try again, brother. God bless

[Ignignokt]

what's wrong with keeping all the money that you invested in?

[boutons_deux]

"running for public office, he should expect this shit"

In GeckoWorld, Gecko is "entitled" to maintain extreme secrecy from You People

[boutons_deux]

what's wrong with keeping all the money that you invested in?

Gecko didn't invest HIS money, he invested Bain's investors money to takeover a company.


Then Bain mortgaged the company's assets and used those funds to suck out Bain's fees, leaving the takeover target in (crippling) debt.

And Gecko paid only 15% on his fees income, when in fact it was earned income, aka, the "carried interest" scam loophole nobody in Congress will touch.

[mercos]

Team Red is scrambling. After your side was dying to see Obama's birth certificate, which no president has ever had to show publicly, now you are crying because we want to see what EVERY presidential candidate has shown since Mitt's own father ran for president in 1968? Give me a break...

[jack sommerset]

Team Red is scrambling. After your side was dying to see Obama's birth certificate, which no president has ever had to show publicly, now you are crying because we want to see what EVERY presidential candidate has shown since Mitt's own father ran for president in 1968? Give me a break...

Brother, no one is scrambling. Is all in your head. God bless

[TeyshaBlue]

Team Red is scrambling. After your side was dying to see Obama's birth certificate, which no president has ever had to show publicly, now you are crying because we want to see what EVERY presidential candidate has shown since Mitt's own father ran for president in 1968? Give me a break...

lol @ your side.

Broad brush much?:lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

Brother, no one is scrambling. Is all in your head. God bless

Criticizing someone's intelligence....


Like any good Christian would
:lmao

[jack sommerset]

Criticizing someone's intelligence....


Like any good Christian would
:lmao

You keep spewing nonsense. God bless

[leemajors]

I'll pray for you . Thinking may not be your strong point, brother. I know why Mitt doesn't give all his tax information cuz he told us. Now if you know something else, please let us in on it. No what ifs please. God bless

http://duanegraham.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/romney-and-kennedy-tax-returns.jpg?w=300&h=209

Because this shit is funny.

[mercos]

lol @ your side.

Broad brush much?:lol


Fair point, I should have been more specific. I should have said that anyone defending Romney's secrecy on his tax returns, because these are likely the same people that wanted to see Obama's birth certificate. Many Republicans have called for Romney to release the records, and I should have noted that.

[jack sommerset]

http://duanegraham.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/romney-and-kennedy-tax-returns.jpg?w=300&h=209

Because this shit is funny.

Keep going. That doesn't really tell the whole story. God bless

[ElNono]

This. Our board democrats are huge hypocrites. In this age of scandal and put downs, this is all they can come up with on Mitt. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. El nono and his bromance with Scott is cute. God bless

you sound upset, jack :lmao

Neither scott or I are asking Mitt any questions about his taxes. If you wipe your god's smegma off your face, you'll be able to read that neither scott or I think there's anything wrong with Mitt's taxes...

[leemajors]

Keep going. That doesn't really tell the whole story. God bless

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[jack sommerset]

you sound upset, jack :lmao

Neither scott or I are asking Mitt any questions about his taxes. If you wipe your god's smegma off your face, you'll be able to read that neither scott or I think there's anything wrong with Mitt's taxes...

Im not....but you are. You're silly, you're mad cuz mitt won't release all of his taxes thus you are asking questions about them. God bless

[jack sommerset]

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Again, you need to tell the whole story from the blurb you posted. God bless

[leemajors]

Again, you need to tell the whole story from the blurb you posted. God bless

About him backpedaling 8 years later?

[jack sommerset]

About him backpedaling 8 years later?

Brother, about the blurb you posted from the left wing newsnut, rachael maddows. Give us some more info. God bless

[TeyshaBlue]

Fair point, I should have been more specific. I should have said that anyone defending Romney's secrecy on his tax returns, because these are likely the same people that wanted to see Obama's birth certificate. Many Republicans have called for Romney to release the records, and I should have noted that.:toast

[jack sommerset]

Mitt is doing exactly what he is suppose to do regarding his tax returns and some of you are all worked up over it cuz he won't do what you want. There is no scandal, it will have no influence on the election, there is no conspiracy, no one is breaking any laws, it's much to do about nothing. Have a wonderful weekend! God bless

[Winehole23]

Romney's well within his rights to release as little as possible and to brag about minimizing his tax burden. Also, he's fucking stupid for doing so.

[Clipper Nation]

Now we are on to a little something something, what claims are you speaking of? God bless

That he paid at least 13% in income taxes...

[vy65]

Who the fuck cares? Why is this a conversation piece.

[Clipper Nation]

Who the fuck cares? Why is this a conversation piece.

Because he's an absolute hypocrite and possibly a tax cheat, tbh.....

[Winehole23]

It makes Romney look like an out of touch elitist.

He could have defused this by releasing his returns when this first came up and pivoted the conversation to something Obama's more vulnerable on, like jobs.

[vy65]

Where's the hypocrisy coming from? Genuine question.

If you think he's a bad person, don't vote for him. I still don't understand why this shit has media predominance though.

[vy65]

I guess I'm out of touch. I'd like a campaign to be a debate about policy. That's obviously not the case. The hysteria over tax returns and birth certificates feeds the popularity-contest frenzy that crowds out real debate.

[leemajors]

Brother, about the blurb you posted from the left wing newsnut, rachael maddows. Give us some more info. God bless

Would you prefer a different sceenshot? Hail Satan.

[TeyshaBlue]

Because he's an absolute hypocrite and possibly a tax cheat, tbh.....

lol @ possibly. It's possible he's a transvestite.:rollin

[Clipper Nation]

Where's the hypocrisy coming from?

Willard himself... not only did he propose way too many tax hikes as governor in MA, he has also used tax return secrecy against his opponents in the past.....

[TeyshaBlue]

Because he's an absolute hypocrite and possibly a tax cheat, tbh.....

Hypocrisy...you're soaking in it.

[Winehole23]

I still don't understand why this shit has media predominance though.http://www.kukuachoo.net/answer64.gif


you're soaking in it

[ElNono]

Im not....but you are. You're silly, you're mad cuz mitt won't release all of his taxes thus you are asking questions about them. God bless

Cool story. Link? Quote?

your god doesn't like liars, jack. ron bless

[Winehole23]

@vy65: you've seen presidential campaigns before, no? remember the last one?

I find it odd you'd expect substance and policy to be discussed very much . . .

[Winehole23]

the conversation mostly pivots from one pile of fertilizer to another. . .

[ElNono]

Where's the hypocrisy coming from? Genuine question.

If you think he's a bad person, don't vote for him. I still don't understand why this shit has media predominance though.


I guess I'm out of touch. I'd like a campaign to be a debate about policy. That's obviously not the case. The hysteria over tax returns and birth certificates feeds the popularity-contest frenzy that crowds out real debate.

Or the "long-lost brother", or the "hesitancy to give the kill order", etc etc etc...
Just as much as this tax business, it's sad as it's seemingly the norm...

[ElNono]

the conversation mostly pivots from one pile of fertilizer to another. . .

Exactly, sadly none of this is new... remember Swiftboating?

[vy65]

the conversation mostly pivots from one pile of fertilizer to another. . .

I think that's right. I was loose with what I was saying -- I wish the irrelevant shit about birth certificates and tax returns was ignored.

I think this shit gets included in because its simply and panders to this nation's vitriol. I don't think campaigns should be about this but unfortunately they are.

[Winehole23]

politics ain't beanbag

[leemajors]

I think that's right. I was loose with what I was saying -- I wish the irrelevant shit about birth certificates and tax returns was ignored.

I think this shit gets included in because its simply and panders to this nation's vitriol. I don't think campaigns should be about this but unfortunately they are.

Guy Debord had some good thoughts as to why.

[Clipper Nation]

I think that's right. I was loose with what I was saying -- I wish the irrelevant shit about birth certificates and tax returns was ignored.


At least the tax returns thing is based in some legitimate policy concerns - the economy, and the tax code, tbh.....

Also, when both candidates are exactly the same, nitpicking is unavoidable, tbh...

[boutons_deux]

"debate about policy"

this week is all about GeckoRyanCare vs ObamaCare.

Gecko's extreme secrecy indicates something important about his character and persona life. Americans want and have a right to know about the man who could waste 1000s of their lives in bullshit wars like Iraq, Afganistan, etc. We already got screwed by the Repugs NOT saying their priority from 21 Jan 2001 was in to invade Iran for oil.

[Jamtas#2]

"running for public office, he should expect this shit"

In GeckoWorld, Gecko is "entitled" to maintain extreme secrecy from You People

So naturally I can expect for you to call on Obama to release all if his college records to remove his "extreme secrecy" as well?

[Winehole23]

college transcripts are germane how, again?

[TeyshaBlue]

Im much more interested in his grilling recipe book tbh.

[ElNono]

Im much more interested in his grilling recipe book tbh.

I'm more interested in his upcoming book about document layering techniques, tbh

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm more interested in his upcoming book about document layering techniques, tbh

Of course you are. Being an illegal alien and all that.:p:

[scott]

Well that settles it then.

[coyotes_geek]

Americans want and have a right to know about the man who could waste 1000s of their lives in bullshit wars like Iraq, Afganistan, etc.

21st century American politics perfectly summarized right here.

Incredibly important: Knowing irrelevant details about the men who would make decisions on things like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Not at all important: Knowing what the men actually think we should do about things like Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Yonivore]

Add to the "not at all import:" knowing the background and life experiences that inform the man's governing ideology...from sources other than a fictionalized autobiography.

[boutons_deux]

21st century American politics perfectly summarized right here.

Incredibly important: Knowing irrelevant details about the men who would make decisions on things like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Not at all important: Knowing what the men actually think we should do about things like Iraq and Afghanistan.

If you think hyper-secretive Gecko is going to be more transparent in govt operations that Obama, or roll back NatSec/police intrusions increased under Obama, you're a fool.

[vy65]

Add to the "not at all import:" knowing the background and life experiences that inform the man's governing ideology...from sources other than a fictionalized autobiography.

You think a birth certificate and college transcript give you an in depth look into his psyche? What else would you like to know.

I don't see why any of this shit is relevant.

[vy65]

21st century American politics perfectly summarized right here.

Incredibly important: Knowing irrelevant details about the men who would make decisions on things like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Not at all important: Knowing what the men actually think we should do about things like Iraq and Afghanistan.

This.

[ElNono]

21st century American politics perfectly summarized right here.

Incredibly important: Knowing irrelevant details about the men who would make decisions on things like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Not at all important: Knowing what the men actually think we should do about things like Iraq and Afghanistan.

bingo...

[coyotes_geek]

If you think hyper-secretive Gecko is going to be more transparent in govt operations that Obama, or roll back NatSec/police intrusions increased under Obama, you're a fool.

Sounds like we're in agreement that there really isn't any significant difference between Obama and Romney.

[coyotes_geek]

Add to the "not at all import:" knowing the background and life experiences that inform the man's governing ideology...from sources other than a fictionalized autobiography.

Already filed under "irrelevant details".

[Yonivore]

You think a birth certificate and college transcript give you an in depth look into his psyche? What else would you like to know.

I don't see why any of this shit is relevant.
Well, for 7 years, from age 10-17, the predominant male figure in Barack Obama's life was a man named, Frank Marshall Davis. Barack Obama refers to him as a father figure in one of his autobiographies -- well, he gives him a pseudonym -- but, it's pretty much agreed he was referring to Frank Marshall Davis.

Do you know anything about him?

Just about every President or presidential candidate has had some biographical piece, on their life, that explores the history, life experiences, and influences that shaped the person that would become the most powerful person on the planet.

We know more about Mitt Romney's background than we do about Barack Obama's. Hell, the media just made a big deal, a couple of weeks ago, about Mitt Romney's high school report card.

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's upbringing in Indonesia and how that impacted his worldview?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Kenyan roots, so prominently on display in his autobiography, and how that impacted his worldview?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Hawaiian upbringing and how that's impacted his worldview?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Chicago years and how that's impacted his worldview?

The man has led an interesting life, I'd like to see it covered by someone other than himself. Is that too much to ask? Why is every question about his past met with derision, skepticism, and wonder over why anyone would want to know?

[boutons_deux]

Sounds like we're in agreement that there really isn't any significant difference between Obama and Romney.

There's HUGE difference in economic, health care, social policy, now that Gecko has sociopath Ryan to define his 99%-fucking program.

NatSec policy is made by the out-of-control, no-oversight NatSec, not by Presdients, just like MIC polic is.

[TeyshaBlue]

Well, for 7 years, from age 10-17, the predominant male figure in Barack Obama's life was a man named, Frank Marshall Davis. Barack Obama refers to him as a father figure in one of his autobiographies -- well, he gives him a pseudonym -- but, it's pretty much agreed he was referring to Frank Marshall Davis.

What do you know anything about him?

Just about every President or presidential candidate has had some biographical piece, on their life, that explores the history, life experiences, and influences that shaped the person that would become the most powerful person on the planet.

We know more about Mitt Romney's background than we do about Barack Obama's. Hell, the media just made a big deal, a couple of weeks ago, about Mitt Romney's high school report card.

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's upbringing in Indonesia and how that impacted his worldview?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Kenyan roots, so prominently on display in his autobiography, and how that impacted his worldview?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Hawaiian upbringing and how that's impacted his worldview?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Chicago years and how that's impacted his worldview?

The man has led an interesting life, I'd like to see it covered by someone other than himself. Is that too much to ask? Why is every question about his past met with derision, skepticism, and wonder over why anyone would want to know?


http://homerecording.com/bbs/images/smilies/facepalm.gif

[Yonivore]

Already filed under "irrelevant details".
Would you consider John McCain's experience as a POW irrelevant to his position on military operations?

[TeyshaBlue]

Would you consider John McCain's experience as a POW irrelevant to his position on military operations?

Apple...meet Porcupine.

[vy65]

Well, for 7 years, from age 10-17, the predominant male figure in Barack Obama's life was a man named, Frank Marshall Davis. Barack Obama refers to him as a father figure in one of his autobiographies -- well, he gives him a pseudonym -- but, it's pretty much agreed he was referring to Frank Marshall Davis.

Do you know anything about him?

Nope, because its not relevant


Just about every President or presidential candidate has had some biographical piece, on their life, that explores the history, life experiences, and influences that shaped the person that would become the most powerful person on the planet.

We know more about Mitt Romney's background than we do about Barack Obama's. Hell, the media just made a big deal, a couple of weeks ago, about Mitt Romney's high school report card.

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's upbringing in Indonesia and how that impacted his worldview?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Kenyan roots, so prominently on display in his autobiography, and how that impacted his worldview?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Hawaiian upbringing and how that's impacted his worldview?

Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Chicago years and how that's impacted his worldview?

The man has led an interesting life, I'd like to see it covered by someone other than himself. Is that too much to ask? Why is every question about his past met with derision, skepticism, and wonder over why anyone would want to know?

There's no curiosity because that shit doesn't matter.

2:lol16

[Yonivore]

Apple...meet Porcupine.
How so?

We constantly hear Slow Joe Biden invoke his father and his family, particularly his father, as the paragons of the values that inform his character.

Why is Obama's history any less relevant than any other politician's?

[coyotes_geek]

There's HUGE difference in economic, health care, social policy, now that Gecko has sociopath Ryan to define his 99%-fucking program.

NatSec policy is made by the out-of-control, no-oversight NatSec, not by Presdients, just like MIC polic is.

Not important.

Finding out if either one of these guys are bad tippers to wait staff, very important.

[TeyshaBlue]

How so?

We constantly hear Slow Joe Biden invoke his father and his family, particularly his father, as the paragons of the values that inform his character.

Why is Obama's history any less relevant than any other politician's?

Comparing McCain's view on war from the viewpoint of a POW as an equivalent to inanities like "Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Hawaiian upbringing and how that's impacted his worldview?" is flawed. Fatally.

[ElNono]

:lol the only concern with McCain was his health, tbh.

[vy65]

H:lolw:lolii:lol

[Yonivore]

Comparing McCain's view on war from the viewpoint of a POW as an equivalent to inanities like "Where's the curiosity about Barack Obama's Hawaiian upbringing and how that's impacted his worldview?" is flawed. Fatally.
Really? At least we had the knowledge of John McCain's imprisonment by which to view his perspective on torture.

Through what experiences has Obama informed his view on the economy? Why does he say things like "You didn't build that," and "spread the wealth?" What, in his background, made him the most liberal voting Senator in the U. S. Senate?

We know his was a community organizer in Chicago but what, exactly, did he organize? What were the outcomes? We know he was the Editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever publishing a single paper in that or any other law review. How the fuck does that happen? His life is full of black holes we're supposed to just accept and move on?

Frankly, I'm stunned by blindness, in the forum, over the incurious media that practically stormed Wasilla, Alaska to pick through every minute scrap of Sarah Palin's life and, yet, completely ignored Obama's Chicago shenanigans -- from the Rezko house deal to his relationship with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers.

[vy65]

We know he was the Editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever publishing a single paper in that or any other law review. How the fuck does that happen? His life is full of black holes we're supposed to just accept and move on?

Students don't publish articles in law reviews -- they publish notes. And you don't have to publish a note if you don't want to as working on law review is a large enough time investment.

Justice Scalia was a notes editor for the HLR. I can't find his student-note. How the fuck does that happen? How can we have a justice on SCOTUS without ever publishing a single paper in HLR or any other law review?

[coyotes_geek]

Would you consider John McCain's experience as a POW irrelevant to his position on military operations?

Pretty much. Certainly his experience would factor in to how he develops his position, but at the end of the day it's his actual position that I'm interested in, not his experience.

This example of course only makes sense because you're specifically interested in relevant experience directly related to the topic. McCain's position on releasing his college transcripts would be completely irrelevant to a position on military operations.

[leemajors]

Pretty much. Certainly his experience would factor in to how he develops his position, but at the end of the day it's his actual position that I'm interested in, not his experience.

I think Yoni comes from the T.S. Eliot school of thought.

[Winehole23]

you've discredited Obama all the way back to his date of birth. good job, Yo. you can probably give it a rest now.

[ChumpDumper]

Really? At least we had the knowledge of John McCain's imprisonment by which to view his perspective on torture.

Through what experiences has Obama informed his view on the economy? Why does he say things like "You didn't build that," and "spread the wealth?" What, in his background, made him the most liberal voting Senator in the U. S. Senate?

We know his was a community organizer in Chicago but what, exactly, did he organize? What were the outcomes? We know he was the Editor of the Harvard Law Review without ever publishing a single paper in that or any other law review. How the fuck does that happen? His life is full of black holes we're supposed to just accept and move on?

Frankly, I'm stunned by blindness, in the forum, over the incurious media that practically stormed Wasilla, Alaska to pick through every minute scrap of Sarah Palin's life and, yet, completely ignored Obama's Chicago shenanigans -- from the Rezko house deal to his relationship with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers.Since Obama has been president for some time now, we've seen the exact result of all these influences.

The result? Actually not much different from Bush tbqh. We certainly didn't see the anarcho-marxist-fascist-atheist caliphate you implied (hoped, really) would take shape once antichrist Obama took office.

[Homeland Security]

Idiots.

The strategy on this is obvious.

Scenario A:
Show us your tax returns.
No.
Show us your tax returns.
No.
Show us your tax returns.
No.
Show us your tax returns.
No.
Show us your tax returns.
No.
Show us your tax returns.
No.
Show us your tax returns.
No.
Show us your tax returns.
No.
Show us your tax returns.
No.
Show us your tax returns.
OK, here they are.


Scenario B:
Show us your tax returns.
OK.
Show us more tax returns.
OK.
Show us a detailed list of all your investment transactions.
OK.
Show us a catalog of all your assets.
OK.
Show us your receipt from your last trip to Target.
OK.
Show us the design specs for your magic underwear.
Uh, what???
He has something to hide!!!!!!

[Homeland Security]

It's like you people forget that the election only happens on November 6th.

[ChumpDumper]

I want to know how the magic underwear influences his approach to Afghanistan.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well sister if he he implements Ryan's budget then those making 30000 or less will have their taxes raised while everyone else gets a tax cut...so let the man show us what he pays before raising the taxes of those who can least afford it. God would support taxing the poorest whole leaving the wealthiset with tax breaks....

Jon tesh

bullshit

how about doing a factcheck before you vomit out that crap?

http://factcheck.org/2012/08/outdated-attacks-on-ryan/

[ElNono]

^ The problem is we still don't know what version of the Ryan "plan" is in play or even if it's one of the multiple versions or Mitt's own "plan"... doubt we'll find out. Details are expensive, they cost votes.

[CosmicCowboy]

^ The problem is we still don't know what version of the Ryan "plan" is in play or even if it's one of the multiple versions or Mitt's own "plan"... doubt we'll find out. Details are expensive, they cost votes.

There is no plan in play. Just the willingness to think out of the box and have an adult conversation about the fiscal irresponsibility of our current path.

[Homeland Security]

There is no plan in play. Just the willingness to think out of the box and have an adult conversation about the fiscal irresponsibility of our current path.
While shirtless and flexing biceps.

[CosmicCowboy]

Here ya go.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/ht_paul_ryan_cc_120817_version2_wblog.jpg

The subliminal message?

Damn. He's WHITE!!!!!!

[Homeland Security]

Maureen Dowd is thinking to herself that it's OK to fantasize as long as she tells herself it would be a hatefuck.

[ElNono]

There is no plan in play. Just the willingness to think out of the box and have an adult conversation about the fiscal irresponsibility of our current path.

There's nothing new or "out of the box" in that plan. The conversation has merely turned into the different degrees of irresponsibility. There's nothing adult about that. Neither party is interested in digging their own political grave.

[CosmicCowboy]

There's nothing new or "out of the box" in that plan. The conversation has merely turned into the different degrees of irresponsibility. There's nothing adult about that. Neither party is interested in digging their own political grave.

Oh please. The plan directly addressed changes in social security and medicare which have traditionally been the "third rail" of politics.

[Clipper Nation]

How so?

We constantly hear Slow Joe Biden invoke his father and his family, particularly his father, as the paragons of the values that inform his character.

Why is Obama's history any less relevant than any other politician's?

Nobody gives a shit about Willard's history, the tax returns are simply relevant to debates about the economy and the tax code tbh......

[ElNono]

Oh please. The plan directly addressed changes in social security and medicare which have traditionally been the "third rail" of politics.

Which plan?


There is no plan in play.

Oh

[symple19]

I'll pay attention to this debate when someone can explain to me how it's relevant to being a president. If dude was cheating, especially when you consider what a rich asshole Romney is, then the IRS would be all over it

This is a media driven issue...don't be suckers

[ElNono]

The "adult conversation" we need to be having is how the heck did we end up with these two fuckups running for POTUS.

[CosmicCowboy]

Which plan?



Oh

your stupid is showing.

We have a previous Ryan plan that was being discussed. Democrats hated it.

We do not yet have a specifically defined Romney plan.

Ryan isn't running for POTUS.

[Homeland Security]

The "adult conversation" we need to be having is how the heck did we end up with these two fuckups running for POTUS.
2012: "How the heck did we end up with these two fuckups running for POTUS?"
2008: "How the heck did we end up with these two fuckups running for POTUS?"
2004: "How the heck did we end up with these two fuckups running for POTUS?"
2000: "How the heck did we end up with these two fuckups running for POTUS?"

Did it ever start to occur to you that people get the government they deserve?

[Winehole23]

We have a previous Ryan plan that was being discussed. Democrats hated it.

We do not yet have a specifically defined Romney plan.

Ryan isn't running for POTUS.therefore there is no plan, unless you count wispy, detail free descriptions of post election intentions

[Winehole23]

Did it ever start to occur to you that people get the government they deserve?every goddam day

[CosmicCowboy]

therefore there is no plan, unless you count wispy, detail free descriptions of post election intentions

like "hope and change"? We saw how THAT worked out.

[Winehole23]

exactly

[Homeland Security]

every goddam day

I just happen to think an American people who want to sit on their asses all day and have things handed to them needs a government that will stick a muzzle in their face and a boot in their ass and tell them to get to work.

[Winehole23]

The "adult conversation" we need to be having is how the heck did we end up with these two fuckups running for POTUS.failed upward impressively, you gotta admit

[Homeland Security]

Western societies really aren't capable of producing the quality of leaders they had during their heydays.

[ElNono]

your stupid is showing.

We have a previous Ryan plan that was being discussed. Democrats hated it.

There's apparently a plethora of Ryan plans, depending on who you ask.
It's a moving target, high on headlines, small on details.

v1.0: "we'll get rid of capital gains"
v2.0: "we'll just cut capital gains"
Mitt: "we'll leave capital gains as is"

v1.0: "we'll switch medicare to vouchers"
v2.0: "we'll switch medicare to vouchers OR you can keep medicare as is"
Mitt: "we'll repackage medicare as a fixed amount benefit (vouchers)"


We do not yet have a specifically defined Romney plan.

Uh? Who runs mittromney.com?

[ElNono]

Did it ever start to occur to you that people get the government they deserve?

When is the revolution starting?

[ElNono]

failed upward impressively, you gotta admit

No doubt. But money and apparatus plays a huge role. Voting Gary Johnson isn't changing it.

[Homeland Security]

When is the revolution starting?
When the fiscal crisis hits.

[CosmicCowboy]

There's apparently a plethora of Ryan plans, depending on who you ask.
It's a moving target, high on headlines, small on details.

v1.0: "we'll get rid of capital gains"
v2.0: "we'll just cut capital gains"
Mitt: "we'll leave capital gains as is"

v1.0: "we'll switch medicare to vouchers"
v2.0: "we'll switch medicare to vouchers OR you can keep medicare as is"
Mitt: "we'll repackage medicare as a fixed amount benefit (vouchers)"






:lmao

want me to start posting Biden quotes?

[ElNono]

want me to start posting Biden quotes?

So there's no plan? Okay.

[coyotes_geek]

The "adult conversation" we need to be having is how the heck did we end up with these two fuckups running for POTUS.

I actually thought about starting a new thread the other day with a poll question asking if America would be better off having a choice between Kerry and Dole instead of Obama and Romney?

[mavs>spurs]

When the fiscal crisis hits.

this. militia's takin ova.

[boutons_deux]

this. militia's takin ova.


the gun fetish "patriots" would be crushed.

[johnsmith]

the gun fetish "patriots" would be crushed.

I shiver at the thought of what your fetish may be.

[johnsmith]

Other than the obvious fetish you have for cock that is.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

this. militia's takin ova.

Nah that is not what usually happens during severe economic crisis.

exuGv3HsV-U

At least not in this country.

[CosmicCowboy]

the gun fetish "patriots" would be crushed.

You are assuming that our military would turn the guns on the public. Historically speaking there is a higher probability they would turn their guns on the existing government.

[mavs>spurs]

the gun fetish "patriots" would be crushed.

You're silly and don't have a clue. Lol out of the loop. Over half of America is awake, brah.

[Yonivore]

Nobody gives a shit about Willard's history, the tax returns are simply relevant to debates about the economy and the tax code tbh......
How? Did you demand to see Barack Obama's medical records during the health care debate?

[leemajors]

How? Did you demand to see Barack Obama's medical records during the health care debate?

:lmao

[mavs>spurs]

You are assuming that our military would turn the guns on the public. Historically speaking there is a higher probability they would turn their guns on the existing government.

Yep. At least 1/3 of the current military would defect in such a scenario. It'd be a large portion of the current military, all the vets, and the civilian masses and militias vs the system if such a scenario ever arose.

[leemajors]

You're silly and don't have a clue. Lol out of the loop. Over half of America is awake, brah.

yah the military doesn't have all sorts of ways/weapons to deal with that

[coyotes_geek]

How? Did you demand to see Barack Obama's medical records during the health care debate?

:lol

Alright, point for Yoni. :toast

[CosmicCowboy]

Yep. At least 1/3 of the current military would defect in such a scenario. It'd be a large portion of the current military, all the vets, and the civilian masses and militias vs the system if such a scenario ever arose.

Actually, I have more faith in our military than that. Were the President to order the JCS to start murdering civilians I suspect and hope we would suddenly have a new opening in the POTUS position and right on down the line until someone realized that was a bad idea.

[mavs>spurs]

yah the military doesn't have all sorts of ways/weapons to deal with that

Illegal to use the military against the people per the constitution. If they started murdering civilians using weapons of war, we would simply ask for Russia/China and the rest of the world community to impose a no fly zone under humanitarian grounds.

[leemajors]

Actually, I have more faith in our military than that. Were the President to order the JCS to start murdering civilians I suspect and hope we would suddenly have a new opening in the POTUS position and right on down the line until someone realized that was a bad idea.

No murder necessary with the new heat rays and glue guns!

kzG4oEutPbA&feature=player_embedded

[mavs>spurs]

^violation of posse comitatus

[leemajors]

when did you take off your tinfoil hat?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are assuming that our military would turn the guns on the public. Historically speaking there is a higher probability they would turn their guns on the existing government.

Just curious, what historical precedent are you referring to?

I am trying to think of a riot where the national guard was called in and there was anything resembling a coup d'etat.

[Clipper Nation]

How? Did you demand to see Barack Obama's medical records during the health care debate?

As if that's the same thing... :lol

The fact is, a tax hike-loving former governor with a history of using tax returns against political opponents should not be this reluctant to show his own returns, tbh...

[ploto]

The funniest part to me is that Romney's defense is that he paid 13% as if that is a "good" answer.

[Wild Cobra]

The funniest part to me is that Romney's defense is that he paid 13% as if that is a "good" answer.
That's more than Obama's 12%.

[ChumpDumper]

That's more than Obama's 12%.lol you're just going to take his word for it.

lol irrelevant constitutional "arguments"

[Wild Cobra]

lol you're just going to take his word for it.

lol irrelevant constitutional "arguments"
Just saying.

If 13% was the least he paid in taxes, then it's still better than Obama's year of 12%.

What reason do I have not to believe him? What reason do you have not to believe him?

[ChumpDumper]

Just saying.

If 13% was the least he paid in taxes, then it's still better than Obama's year of 12%.What year did he pay that rate? Link.


What reason do I have not to believe him? What reason do you have not to believe him?:lmao What reason did you have to be a birther?

Just saying.

[Wild Cobra]

What year did he pay that rate? Link.
I don't remember, but it was in the news a few years back.

:lmao What reason did you have to be a birther?

Just saying.
I'm not. If you could keep your facts strait, you would know that.

[mavs>spurs]

damn, liberals have some small cocks

b-b-but he made teh monies :cry

[ChumpDumper]

I don't remember, but it was in the news a few years back.What reason do I have to believe you?


I'm not. If you could keep your facts strait, you would know that.What reason would I have to expect you to remember?

Just saying.

[mercos]

That's more than Obama's 12%.

The difference is, Obama wants to raise taxes on rich people like himself. If Romney/Ryan get their way, Romney will be paying close to 0% in taxes in the future.

[mavs>spurs]

^not true, romney said himself that he seeks to eliminate the tax loopholes.

now we all know that all politicians lie, but if we're going to pretend to take obama at his word then we need to take romney at his.

[ElNono]

The funniest part to me is that Romney's defense is that he paid 13% as if that is a "good" answer.

Is there a "good" or "bad" answer? If that's what he had to pay, then that's what he had to pay. It's not like he picked the tax rates.

If this wouldn't be politics as usual, the only discussion this should spark is what each candidate thinks should be the tax policy going forward, and why.

But it is politics as usual, which means we'll keep hearing superficial shit like the missing tax returns, the long lost brother, the koch vrwc, the youtube of the week, the missing college transcripts, the media/pollster bias, the omg he used stimulus money!, dumb joe latest unscripted gaffe, death panels!, etc etc etc

[mavs>spurs]

Obama has to resort to these tactics because he can't run on his track record as president the past 4 years. Boiled down this is pretty much it.

[johnsmith]

Obama has to resort to these tactics because he can't run on his track record as president the past 4 years. Boiled down this is pretty much it.

Agreed.....


Funny though how many people eat this shit up...."rich people bad.....share your money"!!!

[Wild Cobra]

Agreed.....


Funny though how many people eat this shit up...."rich people bad.....share your money"!!!
Jealousy.

[Sportcamper]

The funniest part to me is that Romney's defense is that he paid 13% as if that is a "good" answer.

Exactly...:lol

What he should have said was “I paid all the taxes I owe and I didn’t pay taxes which I don’t owe and I recommend all taxpayers do the same.”

The implication is that he somehow gamed the system - of which there is no evidence...

Now if you want make an argument that the capital gains tax rate needs adjusting - then that is a whole different discussion...

If there was a presidential candidate who overpaid his taxes because the tax rate seemed artificially low to him - you'd have to question his sanity...

[Clipper Nation]

b-b-but he made teh monies :cry

Not the issue, tbh....

[boutons_deux]

^not true, romney said himself that he seeks to eliminate the tax loopholes.

now we all know that all politicians lie, but if we're going to pretend to take obama at his word then we need to take romney at his.

Gecko ain't eliminating not one of the 100s of loopholes he and the 1% use to avoid $Bs of taxes, but Ryan, see he budget, will increase the tax burden on the 99%.

[boutons_deux]

Just saying.

If 13% was the least he paid in taxes, then it's still better than Obama's year of 12%.

What reason do I have not to believe him? What reason do you have not to believe him?

13%? he didn't specify if the type of tax

eg, a study showed the in TX the lower 50% pay more in total taxe percentage that the TX 1%, when ALL taxes are calculated.

I bet Gecko is including property, sales, etc, tax to get up to 13% because as Reid said, he paid 0% in income/capital gains taxes. And that's probably 13% of a much smaller number than his real income, much of which can be assumed to be hidden, probably illegally, offshore. He pays accountants and tax lawyers $100Ks annually to avoid/evade taxes.

[mercos]

^not true, romney said himself that he seeks to eliminate the tax loopholes.

now we all know that all politicians lie, but if we're going to pretend to take obama at his word then we need to take romney at his.


Romney pays the capital gains rate, which is currently at 15%, (he ended up paying 13.9%, so he's not using many loopholes) which both he and Paul Ryan have signaled they want to cut. Ryan's original plan called for eliminating the capital gains tax all together. So yes, my original point is true.

[jack sommerset]

I bet Romney paid more in taxes then any of you did that are complaining. Prolly more in one year then most of you in a lifetime. God bless

[mercos]

And I'll bet he made more in a year than anyone complaining. That is the point of the progressive taxing system. I need to be very clear about something, unlike some I do not hate the rich, nor do I want to take away all of their money. I believe in capitalism, and have taken full advantage of the system myself. I don't like the "fair share" rhetoric that Democrats use. I do believe, however, that the wealthy should pay more in taxes, simply because they have aggregated more of the wealth. I believe certain government services are essential, and they must be funded with tax money. If the top earners are going to take more of the money for themselves, as they have done for the past 30 years, then they have to pay more in taxes. It is not a fairness issue to me, its simple math.

[jack sommerset]

And I'll bet he made more in a year than anyone complaining. That is the point of the progressive taxing system. I need to be very clear about something, unlike some I do not hate the rich, nor do I want to take away all of their money. I believe in capitalism, and have taken full advantage of the system myself. I don't like the "fair share" rhetoric that Democrats use. I do believe, however, that the wealthy should pay more in taxes, simply because they have aggregated more of the wealth. I believe certain government services are essential, and they must be funded with tax money. If the top earners are going to take more of the money for themselves, as they have done for the past 30 years, then they have to pay more in taxes. It is not a fairness issue to me, its simple math.

Brother, not to mention all the tax money he created because of his business adventures. The guy is a tax stud. We all should applaud him for his money contribution. Without question Romney is a great American. So brother, sleep well at night, Romney more than pays his fair share. God bless

[Clipper Nation]

Obama has to resort to these tactics because he can't run on his track record as president the past 4 years. Boiled down this is pretty much it.

Well, when you get two candidates who are exactly the same, this is what happens, tbh.... not like Willard would ever dream of running on his record either....

[Yonivore]

Well, when you get two candidates who are exactly the same, this is what happens, tbh.... not like Willard would ever dream of running on his record either....
The Olympics? Took a government bureaucracy (not unlike a smaller version of the U. S. Government) and went from a $400 million dollar deficit to a $100 million dollar surplus and made the Games into what is, by most accounts, a huge success.

Bain Capital? Hundreds of thousands of jobs created by Bain's capital investments, demonstrating his economic and financial acumen. I think I'd play up the fact Bain Capital, under Romney, saved the company where Barack and Michelle shared their first kiss, Baskin Robbins.

Hell, he could even use Romneycare (a compromise with an extremely liberal Massachusetts legislature) as the poster child for what not to do and get Obamacare repealed. His stint as Massachusetts Governor required him to work with Democrats every day of his administration -- something he (and his VP candidate) seem willing and able to do. Obama hasn't called a few key Republicans (leading me to believe he hasn't called any) in Congress, in an effort to compromise, in about a year.

I particularly like the attack that Massachusetts was 47th in the nation, on jobs creation, when Romney left office. You don't hear much about it anymore but, I can't decide if that's because the Obama campaign is holding it back for later or if it's because they realize it's a statistic over which Romney can boast. When you're the Governor of a State with <5% unemployment (the rate at which full employment is considered to be achieved) it's hard to advance in rank as a job creator. Over the four years of the Romney administration, Massachusetts went from 51st to 30th in job creation -- resulting in full employment. One could suggest that had there been room, he could have gone from 51st to 1st; but, Massachusetts wasn't yet suffering the economic calamity Obama would eventually visit on the nation.

Yeah, if I were Romney, I wouldn't have any problem running on that record. It's why Obama is doing puff piece interviews and has sent Slow Joe home -- only to let him roam around friendly territory, from now on.

[boutons_deux]

Well, when you get two candidates who are exactly the same, this is what happens, tbh.... not like Willard would ever dream of running on his record either....

You Lie

they aren't exactly the same.

Since Gecko recruited sociopath sicko Rand-licker Ryan, the differences are enormous.

[ChumpDumper]

The Olympics? Took a government bureaucracy (not unlike a smaller version of the U. S. Government) and went from a $400 million dollar deficit to a $100 million dollar surplus and made the Games into what is, by most accounts, a huge success.That's pretty easy to do when the federal government gives you $1.3 billion.


Without question, we simply could not host Games in Salt Lake if it were not for the enormous spending and services of the Federal government.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-107shrg78538/html/CHRG-107shrg78538.htm

IOW, he didn't build that.

[Yonivore]

That's pretty easy to do when the federal government gives you $1.3 billion.

IOW, he didn't build that.
The Olympics are a government enterprise.

[ChumpDumper]

The Olympics are a government enterprise."The $1.5 billion in taxpayer dollars that Congress is pouring into Utah is 1.5 times the amount spent by lawmakers to support all seven Olympic Games held in the U.S. since 1904—combined," Donald Barlett and James Steele reported for Sports Illustrated in 2001. Those numbers were adjusted for inflation.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mitt-romney-expensive-olympics-federal-funding

So Romney oversaw the greatest expansion of federal spending on this government enterprise in US history. That's a great precedent to cite, yoni. :tu

[Yonivore]

"The $1.5 billion in taxpayer dollars that Congress is pouring into Utah is 1.5 times the amount spent by lawmakers to support all seven Olympic Games held in the U.S. since 1904—combined," Donald Barlett and James Steele reported for Sports Illustrated in 2001. Those numbers were adjusted for inflation.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mitt-romney-expensive-olympics-federal-funding

So Romney oversaw the greatest expansion of federal spending on this government enterprise in US history. That's a great precedent to cite, yoni. :tu
He's persuasive and he's committed to the task. Your issue is with government, not Romney.

[boutons_deux]

yoni shoots himself in his dick

[boutons_deux]

Gecko destroyed all his Olympics and/or had them secreted and hire a Bain guy to keep them secreted.

Gecko is one sicko with huge problem with secreting his financial and public life.

He did the same removal, destruction, secreting with his records as MA governor.

[ChumpDumper]

He's persuasive and he's committed to the task. Your issue is with government, not Romney.:lmao

Don't tell me what my issue is with, you twit. Just because you got your ass handed to you when you tried to pimp Mittens' Olympics, that doesn't mean you can try to Jedi mind trick your way out of it. Romney is as big government as Obama -- and Ryan is too. They just tend to favor the very rich people that you are not and never will be slightly more than Obama does.

As long as your government makes its priorities killing nonwhites and keeping the horrors of ghey marriage at bay, you'll wave your flag and eat the shit of the rich people who won't give a second thought about you.

[Yonivore]

:lmao

Don't tell me what my issue is with, you twit. Just because you got your ass handed to you when you tried to pimp Mittens' Olympics, that doesn't mean you can try to Jedi mind trick your way out of it. Romney is as big government as Obama -- and Ryan is too. They just tend to favor the very rich people that you are not and never will be slightly more than Obama does.

As long as your government makes its priorities killing nonwhites and keeping the horrors of ghey marriage at bay, you'll wave your flag and eat the shit of the rich people who won't give a second thought about you.
- $400 million to + $100 million. Fact.

Romney was in charge of the Olympics, not the government. He did what they asked him to do; saved the Olympic Games and made them profitable.

[ChumpDumper]

- $400 million to + $100 million. Fact.

Romney was in charge of the Olympics, not the government. He did what they asked him to do; saved the Olympic Games and made them profitable.By begging for a $1.5 billion bailout. Fact.

He transformed an insanely bloated budget into an obscenely bloated budget only with the direct and continued intervention on the federal government. Fact.

If his plan is to control spending by getting the federal government to bail out the federal government, you might have a point.

[boutons_deux]

US govt bailed out NoWhereMan Gecko in his NowWhereLand Olympics.

Gecko grovelled in gratitude afterwards (he also was operationally running Bain and criminally lying to SEC)

[Yonivore]

By begging for a $1.5 billion bailout. Fact.
I doubt he begged.


He transformed an insanely bloated budget into an obscenely bloated budget only with the direct and continued intervention on the federal government. Fact.

If his plan is to control spending by getting the federal government to bail out the federal government, you might have a point.
By applying his model, he'll get it back from the international community (you do realize, he'll be running the federal government then); probably by reducing some of the asinine foreign aid and balancing trade. And, by freeing business to create jobs and wealth.

Romney/Ryan 2012. You betcha!

[baseline bum]

Ah, because dropping taxes for the rich has created so many jobs these last 30 years.

[ElNono]

Ah, because dropping taxes for the rich has created so many jobs these last 30 years.

China and India are thriving!

[baseline bum]

China and India are thriving!

Vietnam too. Why do conservatives love the commies so much?

[ploto]

Is there a "good" or "bad" answer? If that's what he had to pay, then that's what he had to pay. It's not like he picked the tax rates.

It speaks to the tax code and an examination of how Romney as president wants to deal with taxes. If he thinks it is a fair system where millionaires pay 13% then it sure is a bad answer.

[CosmicCowboy]

If you think that capital gains should be taxed just like ordinary income then ask yourself this...

Lets say you buy a house for $150,000 with a 30 year mortgage. 20 years later you have paid say $250,000 with payments and interest. Lets say your house has appreciated (because of inflation) in that 20 years and you sell it for $250,000.. The government says you just made $100,000 and wants half of it for taxes.

Does that sound fair to you?

[Th'Pusher]

If you think that capital gains should be taxed just like ordinary income then ask yourself this...

Lets say you buy a house for $150,000 with a 30 year mortgage. 20 years later you have paid say $250,000 with payments and interest. Lets say your house has appreciated (because of inflation) in that 20 years and you sell it for $250,000.. The government says you just made $100,000 and wants half of it for taxes.

Does that sound fair to you?

They already have an exemption that allows you to pay 0% capital gains on the profit of the sale of a primary residence up to 250,000. No one is suggesting getting rid of that loophole. Actually maybe Paul Ryan is. He has still yet to detail what tax expenditures he is going to eliminate to pay for his $4.6T in additional tax cuts

[CosmicCowboy]

They already have an exemption that allows you to pay 0% capital gains on the profit of the sale of a primary residence up to 250,000. No one is suggesting getting rid of that loophole. Actually maybe Paul Ryan is. He has still yet to detail what tax expenditures he is going to eliminate to pay for his $4.6T in additional tax cuts

Thats part of the capital gains tax rules that you want to eliminate.

Or do you just want to eliminate the rules that apply to other people so they pay more?

In the example, replace "house" with any other investment that appreciated over time because of inflation.

Is it fair to tax the difference between the purchase price and the sale price (not inflation adjusted) at a 40-50% rate?

[Spurminator]

If you think that capital gains should be taxed just like ordinary income then ask yourself this...

Lets say you buy a house for $150,000 with a 30 year mortgage. 20 years later you have paid say $250,000 with payments and interest. Lets say your house has appreciated (because of inflation) in that 20 years and you sell it for $250,000.. The government says you just made $100,000 and wants half of it for taxes.

Does that sound fair to you?

So add in a home sales exemption or find another way to treat it differently from gains on Wall Street investments.

People who make their living off of the stock market should have that income taxed as much as (if not more than) the guy who works for a living and actually produces something tangible.

[CosmicCowboy]

So add in a home sales exemption or find another way to treat it differently from gains on Wall Street investments.

People who make their living off of the stock market should have that income taxed as much as (if not more than) the guy who works for a living and actually produces something tangible.

They had to make the money somewhere (that they paid ordinary income tax rates on) to have the savings to invest in the stock market.

[Th'Pusher]

Thats part of the capital gains tax rules that you want to eliminate.

Or do you just want to eliminate the rules that apply to other people so they pay more?

In the example, replace "house" with any other investment that appreciated over time because of inflation.

Is it fair?

I think any investment, other than profit from the sale of a person's primary residence as that is generally Plowed right back into a new mortgage, should be taxed as ordinary income. If I have $10m in the bank and make $400k per year in interest income there is no reason it should be taxed any different than the person who makes $400k in earned income.

[Wild Cobra]

13%? he didn't specify if the type of tax

eg, a study showed the in TX the lower 50% pay more in total taxe percentage that the TX 1%, when ALL taxes are calculated.

I bet Gecko is including property, sales, etc, tax to get up to 13% because as Reid said, he paid 0% in income/capital gains taxes. And that's probably 13% of a much smaller number than his real income, much of which can be assumed to be hidden, probably illegally, offshore. He pays accountants and tax lawyers $100Ks annually to avoid/evade taxes.
The majority of his taxes would be probably be in long term capital gains. Then his 10% tithing to the church would be a tax deduction as well, lowering his effective rate. If we did what liberals wanted, and tax it at a higher rate, there would be less venture capitalists seeding businesses for creating jobs.

Did Obama tithe 10% to reverend Wright's church?

[Wild Cobra]

lol you're just going to take his word for it.

lol irrelevant constitutional "arguments"
OK, I was mistaken. I ran the rates by his released tax returns. The lowest rate was 19.x%. From a gross income, it would be less, but probably no less that about 17%.

May as well get you "see I told you so's" in now.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think any investment, other than profit from the sale of a person's primary residence as that is generally Plowed right back into a new mortgage, should be taxed as ordinary income. If I have $10m in the bank and make $400k per year in interest income there is no reason it should be taxed any different than the person who makes $400k in earned income.

But to have 10M of savings to invest that means he actually made 20M and already gave the government half. Why take half again on the investment of his savings?

You dramatically remove the incentive to invest.

[Wild Cobra]

But to have 10M of savings to invest that means he actually made 20M and already gave the government half. Why take half again on the investment of his savings?

You dramatically remove the incentive to invest.
That's what liberals fail to understand.

They tax productivity, and think it's the way to go.

[Spurminator]

They had to make the money somewhere (that they paid ordinary income tax rates on) to have the savings to invest in the stock market.

Sure, in the beginning. Just like the business owner was already taxed on the money he put into starting a business. But over time, most of the money these traders are investing is money they made BY investing. So that was never taxed at the ordinary rate.

[Spurminator]

But to have 10M of savings to invest that means he actually made 20M and already gave the government half.

He must have had a really shitty accountant.

[CosmicCowboy]

Sure, in the beginning. Just like the business owner was already taxed on the money he put into starting a business. But over time, most of the money these traders are investing is money they made BY investing. So that was never taxed at the ordinary rate.

I could live with the holding time to qualify for capital gains treatment to be extended...say to 18 months.

That solves your day trader problem.

[CosmicCowboy]

He must have had a really shitty accountant.

maybe, but top earners living in an income tax state like New York are paying 50%+ on ordinary income.

[Th'Pusher]

But to have 10M of savings to invest that means he actually made 20M and already gave the government half. Why take half again on the investment of his savings?

You dramatically remove the incentive to invest.

Half? In what universe? Are you suggesting someone with 10m will not invest if he has to pay 39.5% as opposed to 15%. Please point me to the relevant studies. They don't exist.

[CosmicCowboy]

Half? In what universe? Are you suggesting someone with 10m will not invest if he has to pay 39.5% as opposed to 15%. Please point me to the relevant studies. They don't exist.

That is exactly what I am suggesting.

He will not risk his money and invest it in the United States if the government takes half the profits and none of the losses.

Most people don't get wealthy by being stupid.

[Wild Cobra]

Sure, in the beginning. Just like the business owner was already taxed on the money he put into starting a business. But over time, most of the money these traders are investing is money they made BY investing. So that was never taxed at the ordinary rate.
Maybe the ordinary rate is too high.

[Spurminator]

I could live with the holding time to qualify for capital gains treatment to be extended...say to 18 months.

That solves your day trader problem.


Well I don't want it to sound like it's the day traders I'm most concerned about. I'm more concerned about the guy that sells $5 million in company stocks. I still don't see any good argument for not collecting the same from him that you would from a guy who makes $5 million selling cars (hypothetically). I don't really feel like the time the stock is owned is relevant. It's still new income once it's sold.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well I don't want it to sound like it's the day traders I'm most concerned about. I'm more concerned about the guy that sells $5 million in company stocks. I still don't see any good argument for not collecting the same from him that you would from a guy who makes $5 million selling cars (hypothetically). I don't really feel like the time the stock is owned is relevant. It's still new income once it's sold.

If a guy gets stock options and sells the stock when it is exercised it is taxed as ordinary income.

[Wild Cobra]

I could live with the holding time to qualify for capital gains treatment to be extended...say to 18 months.

That solves your day trader problem.
I say tax the hell out of day traders. I only respect the long term stock holder. Part of the corporate America problem is the short term outlook for stock expectations. Share holders pressure the companies to look short term instead of long term for viability.

What about something like this:

70% for day trading, except things like options exercised.

50% for holdings less than 1 month.

35% for holdings less than 1 quarter.

25% for holdings less than 6 months.

20% for holdings less than 1 years.

15% for holding more than 1 year.

[CosmicCowboy]

Well I don't want it to sound like it's the day traders I'm most concerned about. I'm more concerned about the guy that sells $5 million in company stocks. I still don't see any good argument for not collecting the same from him that you would from a guy who makes $5 million selling cars (hypothetically). I don't really feel like the time the stock is owned is relevant. It's still new income once it's sold.

Oh, but the time IS relevant. the whole point of a lower capital gains rate is to encourage long term investment, which them fosters jobs and a better economy for all. The fact that some are gaming the system doesn't automatically make the whole system bad.

[Spurminator]

If a guy gets stock options and sells the stock when it is exercised it is taxed as ordinary income.

I shouldn't have said company stock... Say I have Apple stock that I've held for 20 years. If I decide to sell it tomorrow, I'm not sure why I shouldn't have to pay ordinary income tax percentages on that.

I mean sure it sucks, but no more than the same percentage being pulled out of my bi-weekly paycheck.

[Wild Cobra]

Well I don't want it to sound like it's the day traders I'm most concerned about. I'm more concerned about the guy that sells $5 million in company stocks. I still don't see any good argument for not collecting the same from him that you would from a guy who makes $5 million selling cars (hypothetically). I don't really feel like the time the stock is owned is relevant. It's still new income once it's sold.
There is a difference.

When you tax capital gains from stocks, it is double taxation. The stock investor already paid taxes, as a part owner, through the corporate taxes of the company.

[Wild Cobra]

I shouldn't have said company stock... Say I have Apple stock that I've held for 20 years. If I decide to sell it tomorrow, I'm not sure why I shouldn't have to pay ordinary income tax percentages on that.

I mean sure it sucks, but no more than the same percentage being pulled out of my bi-weekly paycheck.
I would be OK with that if you removed corporate taxation. productivity taxes only harm our nation. If we moved the bulk of the tax rate from the productivity, to the consumption (stock sales) then we would have a more viable economy.

[CosmicCowboy]

I shouldn't have said company stock... Say I have Apple stock that I've held for 20 years. If I decide to sell it tomorrow, I'm not sure why I shouldn't have to pay ordinary income tax percentages on that.

I mean sure it sucks, but no more than the same percentage being pulled out of my bi-weekly paycheck.

Why? Because the dollar you invested in 1992 is worth $1.65 in todays dollars. It's a phantom profit. The government already got their tax through inflation.

[scott]

If you think that capital gains should be taxed just like ordinary income then ask yourself this...

Lets say you buy a house for $150,000 with a 30 year mortgage. 20 years later you have paid say $250,000 with payments and interest. Lets say your house has appreciated (because of inflation) in that 20 years and you sell it for $250,000.. The government says you just made $100,000 and wants half of it for taxes.

Does that sound fair to you?

It sounds perfectly fair to me. The reason we allow a primary homestead exemption is not because it's "not fair" - but because we want to encourage residential mobility.

We could have an entire thread on this, but allow me to ask: what societal interest is being fulfilled by treating investment earnings in a tax preferred manner compared to funds earned at a job?

Are we trying to instill upon our society that your goal should be to not work and live off of investment income instead?

If your goal is to encourage direct investment that creates jobs, the tax code should be tilted to put direct investment at an advantage to investing in the secondary market. Again, remind me, what purpose are we serving by giving tax advantages to secondary market gains?

Taxation, at it's most philosophical level, exists to accomplish one of two things:

1) Fund the operations of the taxing body
2) Incentivize/disincentivize certain behavior

You can't make an argument for (1) in this case, not even from the perspective of the Laffer Curve, because Direct Investment creates jobs - not secondary investment.

So that leaves us with (2). What interest to we have in rewarding passive financial gain over other forms of income?

[scott]

Why? Because the dollar you invested in 1992 is worth $1.65 in todays dollars. It's a phantom profit. The government already got their tax through inflation.

How did the government "get" it?

[CosmicCowboy]

I know that if I am contemplating making an investment where I have a 50/50 chance of making/losing money, and I know if I lose money it's tough shit, but if I make money the government takes half of the profits I am seriously gonna consider going Charlie Sheen and investing my money in hookers and blow.

[scott]

I know that if I am contemplating making an investment where I have a 50/50 chance of making/losing money, and I know if I lose money it's tough shit, but if I make money the government takes half of the profits I am seriously gonna consider going Charlie Sheen and investing my money in hookers and blow.

This is a really good point you make - but one that I think works against you.

Lower capital gains taxes incentivizes greater risk-taking. Is that what we are trying to accomplish?

[CosmicCowboy]

How did the government "get" it?

I realize I am oversimplifying and you will probably slaughter me on it but dollar inflation IMHO is principally caused by the government perpetually spending more money than it takes in in revenue and printing dollars (again oversimplifying) to make up the difference, thus diluting the value of the existing dollars.

[Wild Cobra]

How did the government "get" it?
Just look at a simpler approach.

If a dollar today was the same as $1.65 then, the $150k house would now appreciate to $247,500 at that inflation rate. If it is sold at $250,000, the the taxable amount should only be $2,500. However, the cost of selling the house was likely more than $2,500, and there would probably be no taxable profit.

[CosmicCowboy]

investing (made) dollars now in hopes of future gains involves risk anyway you slice it.

[CosmicCowboy]

There was a time that AIG, GM, Ford, GE, etc. were all considered "AAA safe" stocks because all you had to do was buy them, put them away in the safety deposit box, and just clip coupons as the dividends rolled in.

[Wild Cobra]

There was a time that AIG, GM, Ford, GE, etc. were all considered "AAA safe" stocks because all you had to do was buy them, put them away in the safety deposit box, and just clip coupons as the dividends rolled in.

Is it my imagination, or are democrats targeting companies that pay stock holders dividends?

[CosmicCowboy]

Is it my imagination, or are democrats targeting companies that pay stock holders dividends?

http://www.google.com/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://www.doomsdayguide.org/images/39.gif&sa=X&ei=OukvUMWhBceayQH1uoHgCQ&ved=0CAsQ8wc&usg=AFQjCNEjg091LIUpjP1fe5zev8XRm1Ws8Q

[boutons_deux]

There was a time when US big companies made most of their profits doing industrial stuff.

now they as much if not more profit gambling on Wall St, without all the messy, expensive employees to pay.

[CosmicCowboy]

Damn boo, you broke my helicopter.

[boutons_deux]

Gecko is lying, tax-evading bastard

"Maddow said, in 2002 when Romney was running for governor of Massachusetts, it was demanded of him that he release tax returns to demonstrate a residency in that state of at least seven years. Romney refused and insisted that the public take his word for it.

Eventually it came out that Romney had lied. He was forced to pay Massachusetts taxes retroactively, because when he said that the public would have to take his word that he had paid taxes for seven years as a Massachusetts resident, it simply wasn’t true.

Now he wants us to take his word that he has paid at least 13 percent of his massive income over the last 10 years in taxes. Why should we take him at face value? He has demonstrated a willingness to prevaricate on this very subject in his career as a public figure.

“The precedent for trusting them on this,” Maddow said, “is not good.”"

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/18/maddow-romneys-history-shows-hes-willing-to-lie-about-his-taxes/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29&utm_content=Google+Reader

yep, Gecko is certainly lying about his hidden tax returns, and the 13%.

[CosmicCowboy]

Maddog

:lmao

[boutons_deux]

Maddog

:lmao

so did Gecko lie about MA residency and taxes and was forced to pay them, or not?

[CosmicCowboy]

Fuck if I know but Maddog is no more credible than you are.

[Wild Cobra]

Fuck if I know but Maddog is no more credible than you are.

Bouton's at least thinks he's telling the truth. People like the Mad Cow flat out lie.

[ChumpDumper]

They had to make the money somewhere (that they paid ordinary income tax rates on) to have the savings to invest in the stock market.So they can save on the gains from their primary residences too.

Duh.

[ChumpDumper]

OK, I was mistaken. I ran the rates by his released tax returns. The lowest rate was 19.x%. From a gross income, it would be less, but probably no less that about 17%.

May as well get you "see I told you so's" in now.
I already did.

[CosmicCowboy]

So they can save on the gains from their primary residences too.

Duh.

Started drinking a little early?

[ChumpDumper]

Started drinking a little early?Nope. I should have quoted more, but it still applies regardless.

[boutons_deux]

Seven Tax Return Questions Mitt Romney Left Unanswered Today

1) What kind of taxes? Does that 13 percent cover income taxes, capital gains taxes, or some combination? By Romney’s own admission, nearly all of his income comes from investments (so the low capital gains tax rate helps him drive his overall rate far below that of many middle-class families).

2) What sort of deductions did Romney employ? In addition to the deduction they receive for classifying Ann Romney’s horse as a business, what other deductions are the Romneys using to lower their tax rate?

3) How did Romney’s IRA grow so large? Romney’s retirement account contains more than $100 million, despite annual limits on contributions. How did that happen?

4) What sort of offshore tax strategies does Romney use? While Romney was on the executive committee of Marriott, the company employed complex strategies known as “Son of Boss” to dodge taxes, prompting consequences with the IRS. Did Romney use a similar strategy for his own taxes?

5) Was Romney’s Swiss bank account disclosed on all tax returns for all years? Did he file a Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) as required by the deadline for each year he had the account?

6) Did Romney participate in the IRS’s settlement initiative for undeclared offshore financial accounts (the amnesty)? In 2009, the IRS gave American citizens a window to declare their Swiss bank accounts and avoid prosecution for tax dodging, before it launched a crackdown on foreign accounts. As Slate’s Matt Yglesias wrote, “Romney might well have thought in 2007 and 2008 that there was nothing to fear about a non-disclosed offshore account he’d set up years earlier precisely because it wasn’t disclosed. But then came the settlement and the rush of non-disclosers to apply for the amnesty.”

7) Why did Romney invest in Houston rental real estate that was explicitly marketed as a tax shelter? As The New York Times reported, Romney was an investor in a real estate scheme in which the organizers “played up the tax shelter benefits.” The deal turned out to be a lousy investment.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/08/16/700611/romney-seve-tax-return-questions/

THE HEAT IS ON! :lol

And it ain't coming off.

Gecko is a lying, tax-evading asshole.

[CosmicCowboy]

You are funny as hell boutox.

If Obama thought there was a chance in hell they could get Romney on tax evasion the IRS would be crawling up his ass with a microscope right now.

You are just a stupid smurf that vomits back your thinkprogress masters shit.

[CosmicCowboy]

Remember, the government has SEEN all his tax returns.

[boutons_deux]

Maddow claim, if false, would be legal slander, so why isn't Gecko attack dogs all over her ass today? why aren't they coming out and denying it and trashing her?

Maddow isn't talking about the FEDERAL, she's talking about MA residents' STATE taxes.

[CosmicCowboy]

Maddow claim, if false, would be legal slander, so why isn't Gecko attack dogs all over her ass today? why aren't they coming out and denying it and trashing her?

Maddow isn't talking about the FEDERAL, she's talking about MA residents' STATE taxes.

It's Saturday. His Attorney is in the Hamptons, dumbass.

[boutons_deux]

so Gecko and Ryan, who was in FL "defending" the Medicare he intends to destroy, Gecko's hit men, remain silent today, this weekend, Sunday morning talk shows?

[Clipper Nation]

Fuck if I know but Maddog is no more credible than you are.

I don't like Maddow either but there's Boston Globe articles proving her assertion if you know where to look, tbh....

[Wild Cobra]

You are funny as hell boutox.

If Obama thought there was a chance in hell they could get Romney on tax evasion the IRS would be crawling up his ass with a microscope right now.

You are just a stupid smurf that vomits back your thinkprogress masters shit.
I'll bet they already did and found nothing bad. In this administration with it's leaking of secrets and leaks from agencies as bad as they are, you can be sure if they could find dirt on Romney, we would know it.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't like Maddow either but there's Boston Globe articles proving her assertion if you know where to look, tbh....

Do you remember everything you did or signed from 10 years ago?