If you don't vaccinate your children, you are a horrible parent. Period

[SA210]

That isn't really an answer to my question that I could tell.



It wasn't the answer that you wanted based on your own flawed and brainwashed theory. Thanks for proving that you have your mind made up no matter what. Stay sick my friend :tu lol

[pgardn]

Everything you just spewed, sadly, it pure quack talk tbh.

Lets have the specifics, just like your 9/11 lack of a theory...

What did I post that is false?

[leemajors]

That may have been her vaccination. Or she may still get the virus (there are of course many forms with various combinations of H and N antigens) but show no symptoms. It would be interesting to get her in for a virus titer when people around her have the symptoms. Sometimes the health dept. asks people to come in and give blood so they can get a titer.

Yeah pretty sure it wasn't a vaccination thing. I doubt that woukd fly (needle antsy) :lol

[pgardn]

Yeah pretty sure it wasn't a vaccination thing. I doubt that woukd fly (needle antsy) :lol

Her early exposure acted as a vaccination possibly. Kind of like the mumps, people don't usually get it a 2nd time if exposed in childhood.

[SA210]

Lets have the specifics, just like your 9/11 lack of a theory...

What did I post that is false?

You said I was a quack when you are 100% ignorant to the natural health lifestyle I'm talking about, although you will deny that..without realizing how much of a quack you yourself are for saying such things, and how many quacks you actually listen to. The flu shot is poison, we don't need it. Vitamin D3 works way better, as well as other things. So to be specific, you are wrong about that. We dont need it.

You bring up "9/11" as a desperate attempt to try to discredit me and my truth bombs and attempt to make me look bad to others bc you are ignorant on the issue at hand. lol 9/11. It's OK, other posters have attempted the same weak tactic.

You will now reply with more ignorant nonsense..without ever having lived a natural health lifestyle yourself. :lol

[cheguevara]

Because the healthy adult could be a carrier. By getting a vaccine probability would be that the healthy adult would not carry the virus if exposed while vaccinated. But to hell with the people around you, just sneeze on them. And healthy adults can get the flu virus with the symptoms.

The "virus" will not be passed onto others if you follow simple steps such as washing your hands, not sneezing on people, etc. You know, steps that have been followed by civilization for thousands of years.

now you are telling me, forget those common sense steps, there is a magic vaccine that can bypass them :rolleyes

I say the benefit of having a population with strong immune system that fight flu naturally >>>>>> magic fake vaccine that reduces probability of contagion by a fraction

[clambake]

now that you've tackled your physical condition, maybe you should focus on the mental aspect.

[pgardn]

You said I was a quack when you are 100% ignorant to the natural health lifestyle I'm talking about, although you will deny that..without realizing how much of a quack you yourself are for saying such things, and how many quacks you actually listen to. The flu shot is poison, we don't need it. Vitamin D3 works way better, as well as other things. So to be specific, you are wrong about that. We dont need it.

You bring up "9/11" as a desperate attempt to try to discredit me and my truth bombs and attempt to make me look bad to others bc you are ignorant on the issue at hand. lol 9/11. It's OK, other posters have attempted the same weak tactic.

You will now reply with more ignorant nonsense..without ever having lived a natural health lifestyle yourself. :lol

False. I said you are a quack because you know nothing about immunology.

And you still don't. And you are a quack for saying the flu vaccine acts as a poison. Does Vitamin D act as a poison because some people have allergenic side effects?

[pgardn]

The "virus" will not be passed onto others if you follow simple steps such as washing your hands, not sneezing on people, etc. You know, steps that have been followed by civilization for thousands of years.

now you are telling me, forget those common sense steps, there is a magic vaccine that can bypass them :rolleyes

I say the benefit of having a population with strong immune system that fight flu naturally >>>>>> magic fake vaccine that reduces probability of contagion by a fraction

If you were a teacher I would tell you to get the vaccination. Some of these viruses are very contagious. But since you probably never see other people, sneezing in your sleeve is fine. Just stay inside and away from others, the regular habit...

Your simple steps are grossly inadequate if you are in close contact with others. There is a reason Dr. Offices separate sick from well patients, especially in pediatrics.

[resistanze]

I never said that, at all. That's just your lie and very weak attempt at trying to discredit truth that makes you feel uneasy. But thanks for being afraid of learning you have to unlearn the garbage you were programmed to believe tbh. :tu

No I never said you did. I'm asking you why you don't believe that. If all it takes is your being able to prep your body with and your magical immune system to magically fight off all infections, there's not much of a reason why you should believe you'd ever die (from 'natural' cause so to speak, like us brainwashed folk). I mean, do you know biologically speaking, why all people eventually get sick and die?

The problem is "illness" and "immune system" and "toxins" are buzz words to you, you have nary a clue what these words actually mean. Could you really describe the human immune system if I were to ask you? Or is there a conspiracy behind knowing basic immunology as well?

And I wouldn't talk about being afraid of learning, as I asked you a question in this thread about year ago and you ran away, knowing you couldn't provide justification for your hypocritical use of vaccines as a child.

[SA210]

No I never said you did. I'm asking you why you don't believe that. If all it takes is your being able to prep your body with and your magical immune system to magically fight off all infections, there's not much of a reason why you should believe you'd ever die (from 'natural' cause so to speak, like us brainwashed folk). I mean, do you know biologically speaking, why all people eventually get sick and die?

The problem is "illness" and "immune system" and "toxins" are buzz words to you, you have nary a clue what these words actually mean. Could you really describe the human immune system if I were to ask you? Or is there a conspiracy behind knowing basic immunology as well?

And I wouldn't talk about being afraid of learning, as I asked you a question in this thread about year ago and you ran away, knowing you couldn't provide justification for your hypocritical use of vaccines as a child.


You failed at using your buzzwords and desperately brought up some stupid exaggerated immortality bs bc you were desperate to deflect something that made you feel ignorant. You keep running away from things since a year ago, like common sense. Your "conspiracy" buzzword doesn't work either. Its best you learn what that words mean before you use them so foolishly and desperately. Also, learn what I mean by toxins..you're still way too ignorant....and sick :lol

[SA210]

:lol


:lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm2HLSXxYXQ

[pgardn]

:lol

Shit.

He got an opinion off the internet.
Thats word for him.
Idiot...

[SA210]

False. I said you are a quack because you know nothing about immunology.

And you still don't.

You don't know about REAL immunology, you never did, and still don't tbh. You're still a quack spewing garbage about my natural healthcare lifestyle...when you have never lived it yourself :lol

[SA210]

Shit.

He got an opinion off the internet.
Thats word for him.
Idiot...


No, I just happened to post a video. But thanks for lying. Shows your ignorance :tu

[resistanze]

What is REAL immunology? And how does it differ from 'fake' immunology?

How do you debate someone who is insane?

[cheguevara]

If you were a teacher I would tell you to get the vaccination. Some of these viruses are very contagious. But since you probably never see other people, sneezing in your sleeve is fine. Just stay inside and away from others, the regular habit...

If common sense techniques for cleanliness and social interaction are taken you can survive the flu :lol don't let your bigpharma tell you otherwise. Plus if you happen to get sick, you let your immune system fight it off. That is how humanity has worked for centuries. Plus, even if you take the vaccine, you could still fall sick :lol what a scam



Your simple steps are grossly inadequate if you are in close contact with others.

this is complete bullshit and fabrication. if simple steps are taken you can avoid the flu. I know people who haven't gotten the flu in decades. And if you do then again, let your system fight it off.


There is a reason Dr. Offices separate sick from well patients, especially in pediatrics.

yeah, there are other contagious diseases other than the flu you know :rolleyes

[SA210]

What is REAL immunology? And how does it differ from 'fake' immunology?


true natural vs chemical pretty much..you will spin that..


How do you debate someone who is insane?

I basically just point out how insane you are, that's how tbh :lol

[resistanze]

You failed at using your buzzwords and desperately brought up some stupid exaggerated immortality bs bc you were desperate to deflect something that made you feel ignorant. You keep running away from things since a year ago, like common sense. Your "conspiracy" buzzword doesn't work either. Its best you learn what that words mean before you use them so foolishly and desperately. Also, learn what I mean by toxins..you're still way too ignorant....and sick :lol

You just repeated what I said in a retarded fashion. Man you're terrible. And a vaccine using hypocrite :lol

"Do you think vaccines are routinely given in adulthood? The majority of vaccines are given in childhood. The only vaccines administered routinely in adults, you were already given in childhood (Dtap, every 10 years and maybe MMR once ever).

So I'm not sure which vaccines you're actually rallying against. The most important vaccines, you've already taken them yourself. The other vaccines you mention are typically optional/targeted for specific groups like youth/elderly (flu) or for travelers (e.g., yellow fever, Hep A, Meningococcal, typhoid, cholera).

And you repeatedly haven't answered:

1) Which vaccines you consider effective
2) Why you've prevented your daughter from getting the vaccines YOU had (or did she after all?)"

Why don't you answer this?

[pgardn]

You don't know about REAL immunology, you never did, and still don't tbh. You're still a quack spewing garbage about my natural healthcare lifestyle...when you have never lived it yourself :lol


Tell me about real immunology Dr.

Lead a healthy lifestyle and all will be fine? Get your vitamins, especially D and all is great.

So tell me about how you actually vaccinated yourself? What are allergies and how are they alike and different from autoimmune disorders, your own words. Tell us your opinion of the effectiveness of the polio vaccine vs. pertussis?

I will no contemplate a good read from Dr. SA10 :rollin

[resistanze]

true natural vs chemical pretty much..you will spin that..



I basically just point out how insane you are, that's how tbh :lol

True natural immunology? CHEMICAL immunology???? :lmao

Holy shit, you really have no idea what these words mean! :lmao

It shouldn't be hard to YouTube a video about basic science, really.

[SA210]

True natural immunology? CHEMICAL immunology???? :lmao

Holy shit, you really have no idea what these words mean! :lmao

It shouldn't be hard to YouTube a video about basic science, really.


:lmao You're an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about :lmao

sick one :lol

[resistanze]

:lmao You're an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about :lmao

sick one :lol

Yeah, me with the actual background in what I'm talking about :lol
I don't know what 'sick one' means :lol
SA210 took a bunch of vaccines in his life now is arguing against it :lol
Still waiting for answer to previous question :lol

[ChumpDumper]

You just repeated what I said in a retarded fashion. Man you're terrible. And a vaccine using hypocrite :lol

"Do you think vaccines are routinely given in adulthood? The majority of vaccines are given in childhood. The only vaccines administered routinely in adults, you were already given in childhood (Dtap, every 10 years and maybe MMR once ever).

So I'm not sure which vaccines you're actually rallying against. The most important vaccines, you've already taken them yourself. The other vaccines you mention are typically optional/targeted for specific groups like youth/elderly (flu) or for travelers (e.g., yellow fever, Hep A, Meningococcal, typhoid, cholera).

And you repeatedly haven't answered:

1) Which vaccines you consider effective
2) Why you've prevented your daughter from getting the vaccines YOU had (or did she after all?)"

Why don't you answer this?He's afraid.

[pgardn]

It's all chemical at its basic level nimrod!

So natural immunity is some miraculous force we can't explain?
Just look at utube; real stuff by experts. They are very selective with peer review on utube.

[SA210]

He's afraid.


^^ chump butthurt from the e-beatings I gave him in the club, and came here desperate for e-revenge help :lmao

[resistanze]

^^ chump butthurt from the e-beatings I gave him in the club :lmao

Cool but answer the question.

[SA210]

Cool but answer the question.


I did, I don't take vaccines and have cleansed myself of most poisons I did have in me, neither does my daughter vaccinate. I'm glad to make that right decision which is my legal and very responsible right to do for the protection of my loving beautiful healthy child (oh...that stings you:lol) Neither do many of my friends and ppl I network with. We are all healthier than you and the other butthurt naysayers. Thanks for getting even more butthurt now, and for staying sick tbh :lol

[pgardn]

I did, I don't take vaccines and have cleansed myself of most poisons I did have in me, neither does my daughter vaccinate. I'm glad to make that right decision which is my legal and very responsible right to do for the protection of my loving beautiful healthy child (oh...that stings you:lol) Neither do many of my friends and ppl I network with. We are all healthier than you and the other butthurt naysayers. Thanks for getting even more butthurt now, and for staying sick tbh :lol

So how did your daughter get into school, or how will she get into school?

What poisons did you cleanse yourself of?

[resistanze]

I did, I don't take vaccines and have cleansed myself of most poisons I did have in me, neither does my daughter vaccinate. I'm glad to make that right decision which is my legal and very responsible right to do for the protection of my loving beautiful healthy child (oh...that stings you:lol) Neither do many of my friends and ppl I network with. We are all healthier than you and the other butthurt naysayers. Thanks for getting even more butthurt now, and for staying sick tbh :lol

You're trying to be evasive, but let's summarize, tell me if i'm wrong:
1) You were vaccinated as a child (we know this already). Likely given DTP, Polio, MMR, Hib, Varicella Pneumo, Hep B.
2) You consider all the above 'poisons' and 'cleansed yourself' somehow of the immunizations and the antibodies that stay in your system forever. Scientifically impossible, but then again you know more than me.
3) You're claiming 'natural immunity' to all diseases even though you were vaccinated to said diseases.
4) Your daughter is not immunized AT ALL. Is this correct?
5) You believe all vaccines are poisons. correct?

[SnakeBoy]

and your programmed false knowledge of what real healthcare actually is (your doctor will misinform you that your immune system is just fine, based on their flawed knowledge).

Physicians and every medical organization list diet, exercise, and proper rest as the most important factors in preventing illness. So it is complete bs for you to make such claims.

Let's pretend you are a doctor for a moment. You have a patient with a terrible diet, doesn't exercise and who refuses to change their lifestyle (that's most people). What are you going to do to treat their illnesses?


You have yet to tell me why a healthy person NEEDS a flu shot, or any person.

The recommendations for everyone to be vaccinated against the flu are based on what would be best for the population as a whole not the individual. It's simple math. In most years the risk of getting the flu is only 5-10% for the general population which is generally unhealthy. So if you are living a healthy lifestyle your risk of getting it in any given year becomes extremely low. So it is not suprising that you haven't had the flu in 8 years, I've only had the flu once 27 years ago. That doesn't mean you or I are impervious to the virus, it just means you have a much lower risk factor...a concept you don't seem to understand.

[SA210]

Physicians and every medical organization list diet, exercise, and proper rest as the most important factors in preventing illness. So it is complete bs for you to make such claims.

Many people who practice this lifestyle make those claims and many doctors who have come around. Doctors YOU are talking about recommend a diet that is very flawed (that's why you don't understand, and that's where a lot of people don't get it) and not something they spend a great deal of time on, it's a bad diet which helps in suppressing your immune system. The correct diet would be one of all natural organic, non gmo, non processed, less dead meat, more live organic whole foods, no pesticides, no antibiotic crap, grass fed if you are eating meat and eggs but still cut down on it, (Basically nothing in the middle of the grocery store lol, or at least cut down on it while getting that kind of stuff from a whole foods all natural store) etc. drink Non-fluoridated water, no white refined sugars, no white bleached flours..about 60% of the diet should be vegetables and fruits, all natural whole food vitamin supplements...shit the list goes on and on. These are all things they think are ok and don't tell you to change..and without that change they just keep everyone more sick and immune systems suppressed, but it's OK by their flawed standards. (And then they think its OK to normally take over the counters and prescriptions, aka immune system suppressing chemical crap.)

You will disagree, but it's true and this works for me and all those that I know who do it. Just keep everything as natural as possible, do certain things and build your immune system, and yes exercise. You're asking for a novel bc there are many things, it isn't just a couple things. It's a lifestyle and they don't teach it, neither do they learn it in med school, they only learn the wrong way and pass it on to the public and that is what you are used to. You hear diet and exercise from a doctor, you actually think they know what they are talking about, but they know very little about real nutrition, they make money by having to TREAT you, not CURE you..keeping you healthy makes them no money. If they say less fat, or more whole grains, or more veggies, skinless chicken breast, etc..they never tell you organic, they even go as far to tell you it makes no difference :lol You will probably agree with that garbage. Their diet doesn't work for ppl, which is why they get sick more often than they have to and shove ridiculous amounts of unnatural medicine down their throats that NEVER cures them, they just mask the problem. Then you continue to eat the same poisonous gmo and processed crap and rely on unnatural chemicals to make you feel better. A doctor sees you when you are already sick..ur at the end game right there..then his job is to just treat you, not cure you. Not preventing, just treating after you are already sick. Their crap talk after the fact about their crappy reccomended diet is just that, crap. It's ass backwards.


Let's pretend you are a doctor for a moment.

I don't have to, our bodies are our own doctor. Fuel it correctly without added crap and it will take care of you for a long time, the same way you'd like to fuel your car correctly without junk or lesser grades of oils and gasoline, etc.. you will be better off.



You have a patient with a terrible diet, doesn't exercise and who refuses to change their lifestyle (that's most people). What are you going to do to treat their illnesses?


Another flawed way of thinking. I wouldn't treat an illness, per say. I would heal the entire body and focus on whole health mostly. Definitely detox the body, cleanse it and start to build that immune system with some changes to diet and lifestyle (and if needed maybe some natural medicinal remedies, but whole health curing is most important). When boosting the immune system and getting back to a more alkaline state and some other changes.. your best doctor (your own body) will fight off sickness throughout, not just one place or illness, bc the problem isn't the illness itself but your bodies ability to heal itself whole and fixing your entire body, opposite to how it got suppressed and created that illness or allowed it to take place to begin with. Take care of that, you take care of the illness.. Because you focused on whole health rather than "just the illness". You will disagree, again, but it's true, and many doctors have awakened and admitted this.

There are also holistic medicines, even for cold/flu if ppl choose to be stubborn and not want to change, natural supplements, etc. But if they choose to not change their lifestyle, that is their choice, but they have chosen to compromise their immune system and health and be more sick and prone to disease unlike people who go holistic, etc. Not all ppl would change, ppl want their junk, but a lot of ppl would change if the info was not so suppressed and there would be less sickness, or less sick ppl. I would educate that person on the lifestyle change they need. They could choose to stay the same and accept chemical crap and be sick many times a year or be successful doing that until they aren't anymore..or they can choose to be healthier. The thing is giving them that knowledge so they can make that choice. They don't have the knowledge. That's key. Only flawed conventional methods are promoted. If people were educated on it, and found out how bad the other side is..many would change. People deserve to know the choice is there for them.



The recommendations for everyone to be vaccinated against the flu are based on what would be best for the population as a whole not the individual. It's simple math. In most years the risk of getting the flu is only 5-10% for the general population which is generally unhealthy. So if you are living a healthy lifestyle your risk of getting it in any given year becomes extremely low. So it is not suprising that you haven't had the flu in 8 years, I've only had the flu once 27 years ago. That doesn't mean you or I are impervious to the virus, it just means you have a much lower risk factor...a concept you don't seem to understand.

^^^ So you admit a natural lifestyle is better for flu. OK, gotcha. It's funny though, bc if your flu vaccines were so good and worked so well and people take them, why are they so scared of ppl who don't? No faith in your own vaccines to save you from us?? :lmao

[SA210]

So how did your daughter get into school, or how will she get into school?




:lmao you never heard of exemptions??? :lmao Move on son, you don't know what you're talking about lol

[pgardn]

:lmao you never heard of exemptions??? :lmao Move on son, you don't know what you're talking about lol

So what is your religious belief or medical reason? Because you saying I don't believe in them is not enough. What is medically wrong with your daughter fool, besides the fact that her dad is an idiot?

[SA210]

I owned my own ignorant self and now I'm angry about it :madrun

[resistanze]

You're trying to be evasive, but let's summarize, tell me if i'm wrong:
1) You were vaccinated as a child (we know this already). Likely given DTP, Polio, MMR, Hib, Varicella Pneumo, Hep B.
2) You consider all the above 'poisons' and 'cleansed yourself' somehow of the immunizations and the antibodies that stay in your system forever. Scientifically impossible, but then again you know more than me.
3) You're claiming 'natural immunity' to all diseases even though you were vaccinated to said diseases.
4) Your daughter is not immunized AT ALL. Is this correct?
5) You believe all vaccines are poisons. correct?

:lol Will never get direct answers
:lol psychopath
:lol and vaccinated

[pgardn]

:lol Will never get direct answers
:lol psychopath
:lol and vaccinated

This is his MO.

I just feel bad that he fathered offspring. Starting out with a parent that is an idiot puts the poor kid behind. And through no fault of her own she has a witch- doctor dad. Sad....

[pgardn]

Behold...

SA10

Why do YOU have antibodies to the polio virus in your blood stream coursing through you circulatory system as I type?

[SA210]

:cry I'm butthurt bc sa210 makes sense versus my bogus questions that are based on flawed theory, and I get sick way more than him. I also have never lived an all natural lifestyle but I stupidly think I can comment on people who are more healthy than me that are on it, I'll continue to ask butthurt questions when I have no knowledge whatsoever on the subject :cry



:cry I'm even more butthurt than ignorant sick resistink.. that sa210 has a healthier and happier daughter than anyone I know and that she's a straight A Honor Roll student who knows Latin, English, Spanish, and sign language, is in Orchestra and Band at the same time and participates in youth sports as well as volunteers as a cheer coach in youth sports, and is ahead in credits for college..I can't wrap my head around this. I'm a shitty ignorant unhealthy cold and flu having human being tbh..basically I'm pretty fuckin angry about all these facts bc I can't explain it :cry


:lol ignorant morons

[pgardn]

And you have pro created.

Good god... The Nazis on this board have a legit claim for sterilization.

You...

[resistanze]

:lol ignorant morons

Could've used that time to answer the questions :lol
Cleansed bodies of all vaccines you took :lol
chemical immunology :lol
daughter might die :lol
at least gene pool is saved :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

resistanze, you did well to get him to talk on merits as long as you did. You almost went 24 hours without him melting down. His defense mechanism so he doesn't have to examine his viewpoints is astounding.

[SA210]

:madrun Everything I just said is a lie, per the usual, I couldn't ignore sa210 bc I'm obsessed w him..I'll come back and say another lie..and I'm still butthurt and angry :madrun

[resistanze]

resistanze, you did well to get him to talk on merits as long as you did. You almost went 24 hours without him melting down. His defense mechanism so he doesn't have to examine his viewpoints is astounding.

Yeah, very twisted individual. It's not like I ultimately care what he chooses for himself (shame about his daughter though), but at least know a little bit about the subject you post about. The funny part is that he doesn't even know half of the words he actually uses.

He's pretty much a cliff notes version of a conspiracy nutjob - doesn't even put the effort in sounding at least partially literate.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Let me guess. He used emoticons and did not even address that what he is doing is a defense mechanism. We really need to treat him like a child that throws tantrums rather than face his situation. Not allow him to draw us into the tantrum and repeat what caused the tantrum in the first place.

Remind him that the hallmark study of the anti-vaccination was disgraced as a fraud. Remind him that his snake oil purges are not going to take the antibodies out of his system nor should he want them to. Force him to really examine what he decides to allow to 'inform' his choices.

He doesn't want to do it but going in the emoticon circle will not help him and he does need help.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yeah, very twisted individual. It's not like I ultimately care what he chooses for himself (shame about his daughter though), but at least know a little bit about the subject you post about. The funny part is that he doesn't even know half of the words he actually uses.

He's pretty much a cliff notes version of a conspiracy nutjob - doesn't even put the effort is sounding at least partially literate.

I get why chump and blake like doing what they do. It can be entertaining to make the monkey dance but all it seems to do is make him worse. He has bad sources that he allows to make his choices for him. He parrots them and your right it does sound partially literate.

I had some friends awhile back before that study was shown to be falsified had what a I felt were very legitimate concerns about the mental health of their kids. But shit changes and you have to take new information as it comes.

[SA210]

:madrun sa210 predicted correctly that I do read his posts obsessively and that I would come back and lie some more out of pure butthurt!! :madrun

[SA210]

chump coming in for desperate e-help revenge :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are endangering your child based on quacks. If your daughter does happen to get sick it is on you. I have you on ignore and trying to bait me with your nonsense will not work. You are not fit to be that girls parent and that should be more important to you than this childish nonsense you try and pull.

[SA210]

:madrun Everything I just said is a lie, I'm jealous that sa210 and his daughter are healthier than me and anyone I know..he's in his legal right and there is nothing I can do about it, that makes me angry.. I also continue to read sa210's posts in their entirety and then lie about it. I will come in and say more lies bc my butthurt keeps growing..why do I get sick so much?? :cry

[Blake]

Miserable clown.

Change quotes, post some emoticons, declare victory, repeat.

[SA210]

:cry I'm a miserable clown because I hate myself :cry

[RandomGuy]

you keep asking question yet you never answered my original question. Why does a healthy adult need a flu shot dose every year?




As for why a healthy person needs a flu shot, to my understanding:

A healthy person does not. That is however, beside the point.

Healthy people are encouraged to get flu shots, because flu shots increase immune response times to actual flu, making any illness shorter, and lessening the contagious period. This keeps outbreaks more minor, and exposes fewer unhealthy people to potentially harmful flu.

As to when or if you get more sick or less sick than an "average" family:

I do not have enough data to be able to say for certain if that is indeed the case.

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/Pages/communityImmunity.aspx


Vaccines can prevent outbreaks of disease and save lives.

When a critical portion of a community is immunized against a contagious disease, most members of the community are protected against that disease because there is little opportunity for an outbreak. Even those who are not eligible for certain vaccines—such as infants, pregnant women, or immunocompromised individuals—get some protection because the spread of contagious disease is contained. This is known as "community immunity."

In the illustration below, the top box depicts a community in which no one is immunized and an outbreak occurs. In the middle box, some of the population is immunized but not enough to confer community immunity. In the bottom box, a critical portion of the population is immunized, protecting most community members.

The principle of community immunity applies to control of a variety of contagious diseases, including influenza, measles, mumps, rotavirus, and pneumococcal disease.

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/SiteCollectionImages/topics/communityImmunityGeneric.gif

[RandomGuy]

I never said "I know it is false". I raised the question, how can you take BigPharma's studies as truth when they have billions of dollars at stake? (question)




if there is any proof, I'm sure it's studies performed by BigPharma

truth is there is no study needed to tell me a healthy adult does not require a yearly flu shot. None whatsoever. It's a big money making scam. And many ignorant masses fell headfirst into it.

"if" there is any proof, very strongly implies to anyone with common sense that your position is they are lying.

If I have gotten what you say/think wrong, by all means elucidate. I am not intentially trying to distort anything you said, merely trying to understand.

Do you think there is evidence that vaccines work?

[RandomGuy]

How do you differentiate the effects of natural medicine from the placebo effect?



It wasn't the answer that you wanted based on your own flawed and brainwashed theory. Thanks for proving that you have your mind made up no matter what. Stay sick my friend :tu lol

(shrugs)

I honestly didn't see an answer to it.

Can you briefly tell me what part of your post was the answer? The only answer I "want" is a simple, clear explanation as to what you think the answer *is*.

[leemajors]

Polio outbreak in Syria due to lack of vaccination:

http://io9.com/so-polio-is-a-thing-again-in-war-ravaged-syria-1460139407

[boutons_deux]

Polio outbreak in Syria due to lack of vaccination:

http://io9.com/so-polio-is-a-thing-again-in-war-ravaged-syria-1460139407

some vaccines work, BigPharma sells a lot that are useless.

[RandomGuy]

some vaccines work, BigPharma sells a lot that are useless.

Polio vaccines, however, did, and do work. The disease is almost extinct.

[pgardn]

some vaccines work, BigPharma sells a lot that are useless.

Like flu vaccines?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115551/jenny-mccarthy-anti-vaccination-movement-blame-whooping-cough?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=margin&utm_campaign=mostpopular

apparently whooping cough is making a comeback.

[pgardn]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115551/jenny-mccarthy-anti-vaccination-movement-blame-whooping-cough?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=margin&utm_campaign=mostpopular

apparently whooping cough is making a comeback.

Yet another example of why vaccinations are important for the good of an entire population, not just the individual.
BTW, adults can also be carriers and give it to unvaccinated kids. 200,000 cases and 9000 deaths in a much smaller US population before the vaccine. And a bunch of kids with irreparably damaged lungs.

Last year Washington state had a very bad outbreak as well.

Vaccinations are big pharmas attempt to make money apparently. The success of vaccines is of course never noted.

[boutons_deux]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115551/jenny-mccarthy-anti-vaccination-movement-blame-whooping-cough?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=margin&utm_campaign=mostpopular

apparently whooping cough is making a comeback.

Bordetella pertussis vaccine seems to one that actually works (don't know how many people are injured or killed by it as collateral damage)

http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/about/diagnosis-treatment.html


Whooping Cough Vaccine Loses Effectiveness Faster Than Thought

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/13/whooping-cough-vaccine-effectiveness_n_1880922.html

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/115551/jenny-mccarthy-anti-vaccination-movement-blame-whooping-cough?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=margin&utm_campaign=mostpopular

apparently whooping cough is making a comeback.Thanks, Obama.

[leemajors]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/5/5179204/measles-cases-spiked-in-2013-us-health-experts-warn


It's been fifty years since the United States approved a vaccine to prevent measles — and more than a decade since the disease was declared eliminated in the country. But now, the rate of measles is once again on the rise: a new report from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has concluded that 2013 saw measles infections increase to three times the typical number.

[Winehole23]

thank you for mentioning this, leemajors.

related: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203274&page=4&p=6894568&viewfull=1#post6894568

[RandomGuy]

"This year is on track to be the worst for measles in more than a decade, according to new numbers released Thursday by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And people who refuse to vaccinate their children are behind the increasing number of outbreaks, health officials say...
Nearly two-thirds of the reported cases happened in three outbreaks in communities where many people don't vaccinate their children for religious or philosophical reasons."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/12/health/worst-measles-year/

Another case of stupidity and/or faith being quite literally dangerous.

I genuinely fear for the safety of my brother's children, and that of SA210's. Despite his chest thumping, his ego will not save his kids from micro-organisms.

[I. Hustle]

http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/Feb201391/88.png

[Trainwreck2100]

http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/Feb201391/88.png

flu shot, never again

[I. Hustle]

Animal blood I completely understand but formaldehyde?

[Blake]

Is thimerosal (mercury based preservative) in vaccines safe?

Yes. There is a large body of scientific evidence on the safety of thimerosal. Data from several studies show the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines do not cause harm, and are only associated with minor local injection site reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.Three U.S. health agencies (The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and the National Institutes of Health (NIH)) have reviewed the published research on thimerosal and found it to be a safe product to use in vaccines. Three independent organizations [The National Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Medicine, Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)] reviewed the published research and also found thimerosal to be a safe product to use in vaccines. The medical community supports the use of thimerosal in influenza vaccines to protect against potential bacterial contamination of multi-dose vials.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm?mobile=nocontent

[Blake]

The average quantity of formaldehyde to which a young infant could be exposed at one time may be as high as 0.2 mg (see table below). This quantity of formaldehyde is considered to be safe for two reasons:

First, formaldehyde is essential in human metabolism and is required for the synthesis of DNA and amino acids (the building blocks of protein). Therefore, all humans have detectable quantities of natural formaldehyde in their circulation (about 2.5 ug of formaldehyde per ml of blood). Assuming an average weight of a 2-month-old of 5 kg and an average blood volume of 85 ml per kg, the total quantity of formaldehyde found in an infant's circulation would be about 1.1 mg, a value at least five-fold greater than that to which an infant would be exposed in vaccines.

Second, quantities of formaldehyde at least 600 fold greater than that contained in vaccines have been given safely to animals.

http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/vaccine-ingredients/formaldehyde.html

[pgardn]

Is thimerosal (mercury based preservative) in vaccines safe?


Yes. There is a large body of scientific evidence on the safety of thimerosal. Data from several studies show the low doses of thimerosal in vaccines do not cause harm, and are only associated with minor local injection site reactions like redness and swelling at the injection site.Three U.S. health agencies (The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and the National Institutes of Health (NIH)) have reviewed the published research on thimerosal and found it to be a safe product to use in vaccines. Three independent organizations [The National Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Medicine, Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), and the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP)] reviewed the published research and also found thimerosal to be a safe product to use in vaccines. The medical community supports the use of thimerosal in influenza vaccines to protect against potential bacterial contamination of multi-dose vials.


http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vacci...bile=nocontent


This won't help.

They have a picture of a poster board...

[mrsmaalox]

Animal blood I completely understand but formaldehyde?

There is no animal blood, but why would you understand it? The virus is cultivated in chicken embryos, then separated from any chicken and the formaldehyde kills anything chicken that may still be present.

[Winehole23]

I've reached no conclusion about the flu vaccine. I don't get sick often, so I don't use it.

[Blake]

I understand the antifreeze. It gets cold in the winter sometimes.

[mrsmaalox]

I understand the antifreeze. It gets cold in the winter sometimes.

lol

And the animal viruses. Aren't most viruses animal viruses? People forget humans are animals too.

[TeyshaBlue]

I understand the antifreeze. It gets cold in the winter sometimes.

Propylene glycol is the ingredient most associated with anti-freeze. However, PG is harmless. It's the Ethylene Glycol that's dangerous. Don't see it much anymore and certainly never an ingredient in vaccines.

lol panic meme.

[pgardn]

I have never had the flu and never been vaccinated UNTIL this year.
I read about carriers and decided I would get vaccinated this year with the trivalent.
I will be damned if I am not showing any symptoms or super mild symptoms, and then infect someone else.
Working around others, occasionally many other people, led me to the decision.

Can I cough on you Boutons? Maybe you will become radioactive.

[ElNono]

Propylene glycol is the ingredient most associated with anti-freeze. However, PG is harmless. It's the Ethylene Glycol that's dangerous. Don't see it much anymore and certainly never an ingredient in vaccines.

lol panic meme.

PG and VG (Vegetable glycerin) is safe and used everywhere... toothpaste, dental products, baked goods (moisturizer), electronic cigarette fluid, etc... the only issue is if you're allergic to it, which is very rare.

The only population section that needs to keep an eye on it is people with diabetes, since in some cases glycerol can be directly metabolized as glucose, but you would need a whole lot of glycerol intake to really have a problem with that.

[resistanze]

http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/Feb201391/88.png

:lol @ antifreeze and animal blood. The ignorance is hilarious.

[Shastafarian]

http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/Feb201391/88.png

Why did they only include a partial list?!?!?!? I need to know what other killer substances are in my vaccines!

[monosylab1k]

:lol @ antifreeze and animal blood. The ignorance is hilarious.

Since SA210 isn't around to do it, i'll post this for him tbh.

"lol you're the ignorant one. no life internet loser who doesn't know the facts like me. i have mountains of proof to back up all my claims but won't reveal said proof ever. YouTube video."

[Blake]

:lol :lol :lol mono calling for e-help to get revenge on SA210:lol :lol :lol

[Shastafarian]

The 7 "this" are all links in the original article. I'd recommend reading it in its entirety.

This topic is so vast and so complex that I'm not going to pretend to be able to address it in single coherent blog entry (unlike so many anti-vaxxers). But I do want to put together a bullet-pointed list of what I, as a layperson with personal access to the medical community, believe that you, as a layperson without that same access (clearly - if you're considering not vaccinating) might want to know. I've followed and participated in many discussions on this topic and there are some repeat misconceptions or missed points that are worth cobbling together. Here are a few of them:

(1) Vaccines do not cause autism. See also this, this, this, this, this, this and this. Kudos to Dr. Andrew Wakefield for getting published in a legitimate medical journal, since everything else on this topic either wasn't, or has been misleadingly taken out of context and interpreted by non-medical minds to mean something it doesn't mean to any other physicians, who are also parents themselves. Too bad though - after other labs were unable to get any results by repeating his study, and after he was unable to reproduce the results himself, the original study was found to have fraudulently falsified its data (this "caught ya!" process is called peer review, and it's why we can rely on science). He made millions and children died. Not sure what that makes him in your book, and I don't want to mention what that makes him in mine. Maybe we should honor those deaths... by vaccinating. Here's some more persuasion though, if that's not enough:

We've been vaccinating since the 1950s, so we vaccinated for many decades before autism rates went up. The spike has been most significant over the past five years, in spite of the decline in vaccination rates. Hmm. Doesn't seem that vaccines are the cause, does it?

Maybe you know or have heard about someone who went from "normal" to autistic right after his shots. Well, autism is an early-childhood onset condition, and it happens that we vaccinate early in childhood. There are lots of children out there whose symptoms started shortly BEFORE their shots, too; they're just not organizing themselves and speaking out about their experiences. Anecdotal evidence, while compelling to those personally experiencing it, does not show or prove correlation (let alone causation). Medical studies do, but they have repeatedly disproven that vaccines have any relation to autism - every single legitimate, peer-reviewed study (see the links above). If that weren't true, and this was, then your pediatrician wouldn't be vaccinating his or her own children - at rates even *higher* than the official recommendations.

Okay okay, you still can't be convinced, and perhaps you would like to speak at the next national AAP conference on this topic, and present to them the articles you found on the internet. Well how about the point that my friend made? Her brother is autistic. She loves him just the way he is, and would much rather an autistic brother than a dead one; she takes more than a little offense when people don't vaccinate for fear of autism. I'd rather an autistic child than a dead one myself, personally. But thankfully, we don't have to choose ... because vaccines do not cause autism!

http://bostonwed-murakami.blogspot.com/2013/09/vaccination-laypersons-perspective_26.html

[boutons_deux]

From a newsletter by Bob Reagan, newmarkethealth.com

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention actually called a press conference to announce that during the 2012-2013 season, the flu vaccine prevented 6.6 million cases of flu. I mean, who could argue with success like that?

Well, I don't know. Let me give it a try.

First, if you're wondering how the CDC could possibly know how many cases of flu wewould have developed, that's a great question. If the feds were so good at predicting the future, how did we end up $17 trillion in debt?

But this time let's just take them at their word. According to the CDC about 45% of the population got a vaccine last year. That translates to roughly 135 million shots. But the shot only "prevented" 6.6 million cases of the flu.

That means your chance of EVER getting the flu was less than 5% to begin with.

In other words, the vaccine was totally worthless for 95% of the poor sons of guns who lined up to have their arms pricked.

Better safe than sorry, right? I mean, who wants to be one of the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people who drop dead of the flu each year? There are hundreds of thousands of them, right?

Not exactly. A 30-year analysis of the flu found that annual deaths averaged about 6,300. For half of the years, the total was fewer than 5,000. That wouldn't fill the end zone seats in the stadium where the Dallas Cowboys play.

And now consider this -- if the flu vaccine truly was preventing 6.6 million cases of flu a year that means your chances of dying from it are no better than one tenth of one percent! Yet we're spending billions a year on flu campaigns as if we have some national emergency on our hands!

Numbers never lie, friend, and the numbers on the flu vaccine are a joke. Even Uncle Sam is starting to admit it -- he just didn't mean to. "

flu vaccines are a huge BigPharma marketing scam, aided and abetted by captured-regulators CDC, NIH, etc.

[RandomGuy]

From a newsletter by Bob Reagan, newmarkethealth.com

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention actually called a press conference to announce that during the 2012-2013 season, the flu vaccine prevented 6.6 million cases of flu. I mean, who could argue with success like that?

Well, I don't know. Let me give it a try.

First, if you're wondering how the CDC could possibly know how many cases of flu wewould have developed, that's a great question. If the feds were so good at predicting the future, how did we end up $17 trillion in debt?

But this time let's just take them at their word. According to the CDC about 45% of the population got a vaccine last year. That translates to roughly 135 million shots. But the shot only "prevented" 6.6 million cases of the flu.

That means your chance of EVER getting the flu was less than 5% to begin with.

In other words, the vaccine was totally worthless for 95% of the poor sons of guns who lined up to have their arms pricked.

Better safe than sorry, right? I mean, who wants to be one of the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people who drop dead of the flu each year? There are hundreds of thousands of them, right?

Not exactly. A 30-year analysis of the flu found that annual deaths averaged about 6,300. For half of the years, the total was fewer than 5,000. That wouldn't fill the end zone seats in the stadium where the Dallas Cowboys play.

And now consider this -- if the flu vaccine truly was preventing 6.6 million cases of flu a year that means your chances of dying from it are no better than one tenth of one percent! Yet we're spending billions a year on flu campaigns as if we have some national emergency on our hands!

Numbers never lie, friend, and the numbers on the flu vaccine are a joke. Even Uncle Sam is starting to admit it -- he just didn't mean to. "

flu vaccines are a huge BigPharma marketing scam, aided and abetted by captured-regulators CDC, NIH, etc.



Riddle me this, batman:

Does Bob Reagan of Newmarkethealth.com have any financial interest in getting people to stop vaccinating themselves?

[boutons_deux]

Riddle me this, batman:

Does Bob Reagan of Newmarkethealth.com have any financial interest in getting people to stop vaccinating themselves?

I don't know. But he makes good case exposing the scam of flu vaccines.

[RandomGuy]

I don't know. But he makes good case exposing the scam of flu vaccines.

His website actively profits from the promotion and sale of "natural medicines", at the expense of conventional medicine, as well as sales of his own books and other promotional material.

He has every motivation to spin the truth to promote his own sales.

If you'd like, I can start dissecting his arguments using real science. I have already noted a couple of logically flawed arguments just in the snippet you pasted.

There is a burgeoning "supplement" industry using all sorts of junk science and conspiracy theory to sell to people ready to believe that "they" are out to get you, and if you click on a few links at new market health, this is VERY apparent.

https://www.besthealthnutritionals.com/
https://www.realadvantagenutrients.com/

This stuff screams "scam" to me.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.newmarkethealth.com/site/

there is the main site right there.

It is very obviously trying to scare people into buying their useless snake oil.

[boutons_deux]

"useless snake oil"

so you agree or disagree with his stats on vaccines?

I don't know anything about his snake oil. What proof do you have that your slander is fact?

[boutons_deux]

you want snake oil? :lol

7 Drugs Whose Dangerous Risks Emerged Only After Big Pharma Made Its Money

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/7-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-emerged-only-after-big-pharma-made-its-money

[boutons_deux]

Drugs companies 'routinely withhold results of medical trials' from doctors, researchers and patients

Drug companies have “routinely and legally” withheld the results of medical trials from doctors, researchers and patients for decades, MPs have said.

In a damning report, the Public Accounts Committee said it was of “extreme concern” that about half of all trial results for medicines available on the global market were not subject to public and independent scrutiny.

Warning that doctors and patients are being “undermined” in their ability to make informed decisions on treatment, the committee called on the Government to act to ensure that the results of all clinical trials of every medicine currently being prescribed are made available.

The report will significantly increase pressure on the world’s pharmaceutical giants to commit to full transparency over clinical trials.

Critics have accused “Big Pharma” of systematically putting profit before patients, withholding data that might undermine confidence in their blockbuster drugs.

MPs said that “trials which gave a favourable verdict” were “about twice as likely to be published as trials giving unfavourable results”.

The Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry (ABPI), which represents leading UK firms such as GlaxoSmithKline and AstraZeneca, said that it was “misleading” to say data was being routinely withheld and that results from nine out of every 10 industry-sponsored clinical trials for “recently approved medicines” had been published.

Yet committee member Richard Bacon MP said that results of past trials on medicines still in use today could be of equal concern.

Tamiflu, which for years has been stockpiled by the Government for emergency use in the event of a flu pandemic, caused particular concern to the committee, which said it was “disturbed by claims that regulators do not have access to all the available information” about the drug.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/drugs-firms-routinely-withhold-results-of-medical-trials-from-doctors-researchers-and-patients-9035740.html

[resistanze]

"useless snake oil"

so you agree or disagree with his stats on vaccines?

I don't know anything about his snake oil. What proof do you have that your slander is fact?




I disagree with his stats - they're horrendous and unscientific. One can make an argument against the overall usefulness of the flu vaccine with actually credible arguments.

"But this time let's just take them at their word. According to the CDC about 45% of the population got a vaccine last year. That translates to roughly 135 million shots. But the shot only "prevented" 6.6 million cases of the flu.
That means your chance of EVER getting the flu was less than 5% to begin with."

I mean this shows he has no knowledge on statistics. Before the introduction of the Pertussis vaccine, the incidence was 175,000 cases per year (150 cases per 100,000 population). Using this idiot's logic, there was only a 0.15% chance of acquiring whooping cough (at the time a big cause of infant mortality). Polio? Had a much lower incidence than pertussis (pre-vaccination era). Should we have not have developed vaccines for these diseases?

There's a bunch of resources that can be read about vaccination coverage and the rationale behind the models used:
http://www.who.int/immunization/monitoring_surveillance/en/
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/3/633.full

I think part of RandomGuy's point is people are quick to say "Of course Big Pharma is lying! They have so much to gain!" but they don't apply this same logic to these 'natural health' quacks who also stand to gain financially from the fear mongering and lies. If people are so interested in the 'truth', then read up on the data and make your own conclusions. But people always want the easy way out - use a quack to discredit another quack.

[boutons_deux]

I disagree with his stats - they're horrendous and unscientific. One can make an argument against the overall usefulness of the flu vaccine with actually credible arguments.

"But this time let's just take them at their word. According to the CDC about 45% of the population got a vaccine last year. That translates to roughly 135 million shots. But the shot only "prevented" 6.6 million cases of the flu.
That means your chance of EVER getting the flu was less than 5% to begin with."

I mean this shows he has no knowledge on statistics. Before the introduction of the Pertussis vaccine, the incidence was 175,000 cases per year (150 cases per 100,000 population). Using this idiot's logic, there was only a 0.15% chance of acquiring whooping cough (at the time a big cause of infant mortality). Polio? Had a much lower incidence than pertussis (pre-vaccination era). Should we have not have developed vaccines for these diseases?

There's a bunch of resources that can be read about vaccination coverage and the rationale behind the models used:
http://www.who.int/immunization/monitoring_surveillance/en/
http://ije.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/3/633.full

I think part of RandomGuy's point is people are quick to say "Of course Big Pharma is lying! They have so much to gain!" but they don't apply this same logic to these 'natural health' quacks who also stand to gain financially from the fear mongering and lies. If people are so interested in the 'truth', then read up on the data and make your own conclusions. But people always want the easy way out - use a quack to discredit another quack.

the message was STRICTLY about the flu vaccine scam, not measles, whooping cough, polio vaccines.

[resistanze]

the message was STRICTLY about the flu vaccine scam, not measles, whooping cough, polio vaccines.

His logic for flu applies to every vaccine, i.e. it is flawed and incorrect. His math is incorrect so he's either uneducated or being dishonest.

Like I said, one can make an argument against he usefulness about flu, but he's obviously no the one to do it.

[LnGrrrR]

Did you know that you can DIE from drinking TOO MUCH water?!?!

STOP DRINKING WATER SHEEPELS!

[scott]

Another thread full of people unaware of the dangers of DHMO.

[boutons_deux]

Lead Developer Of HPV Vaccines Comes Clean, Warns Parents & Young Girls It’s All A Giant Deadly Scam -

http://asheepnomore.net/2014/01/12/lead-developer-hpv-vaccines-comes-clean-warns-parents-young-girls-giant-deadly-scam/#sthash.UHeWFbHw.dpuf

[ChumpDumper]

Lead Developer Of HPV Vaccines Comes Clean, Warns Parents & Young Girls It’s All A Giant Deadly Scam -

http://asheepnomore.net/2014/01/12/lead-developer-hpv-vaccines-comes-clean-warns-parents-young-girls-giant-deadly-scam/#sthash.UHeWFbHw.dpuf


That's Bullshit


http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/gardasil.asp

[boutons_deux]

gardisil is just another BigPharma scam.

HPV nearly always clears up by itself in healthy people, and the clearing can be aided by upping certain vitamins and food

[ChumpDumper]

Nice walk back, boutons.

[boutons_deux]

Nice walk back, boutons.

thank you

Gardisil is bullshit, BigPharma scam, like statins, and flu vaccines.

[Winehole23]

Another thread full of people unaware of the dangers of DHMO.the MSDS (http://www.improbable.com/2010/03/24/dhmo-material-safety-data-sheet/)

[RandomGuy]

"useless snake oil"

so you agree or disagree with his stats on vaccines?

I don't know anything about his snake oil. What proof do you have that your slander is fact?




He takes a starting stat and then does some very dishonest handwaving that obviously demonstrates that he knows very little about epidemiology.

So, yes, I would disagree on his stats.

[RandomGuy]

I think part of RandomGuy's point is people are quick to say "Of course Big Pharma is lying! They have so much to gain!" but they don't apply this same logic to these 'natural health' quacks who also stand to gain financially from the fear mongering and lies. If people are so interested in the 'truth', then read up on the data and make your own conclusions. But people always want the easy way out - use a quack to discredit another quack.

And that is exactly what boutons did.

Step 1: Present information from a "natural medicine" salesman about how bad competing products are, and how good his products are.


From a newsletter by Bob Reagan, newmarkethealth.com

Step 2: assume that "big pharma" only does X to make money, with no scientific basis underlying, no proof provided about motive or efficacy




flu vaccines are a huge BigPharma marketing scam, aided and abetted by captured-regulators CDC, NIH, etc.




When confronted with the very reasonable assertion that the "proof" presented was little more than a sales brochure... fall back on...


"useless snake oil"

so you agree or disagree with his stats on vaccines?

I don't know anything about his snake oil. What proof do you have that your slander is fact?



Sorry B-man. Science and reason don't support you here.

Large business does a lot of fucking underhanded and repulsive things, but overall, vaccines don't fall into that category.

[RandomGuy]

you want snake oil? :lol

7 Drugs Whose Dangerous Risks Emerged Only After Big Pharma Made Its Money

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/7-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-emerged-only-after-big-pharma-made-its-money



That is something big pharma is definitely guilty of, and additionally the post about how they hide results and skew trials their way is also valid.

Alternet generally has an agenda, but in this case they just assembled a case from credible sources, and not entirely in a dishonest way.

[pgardn]

Anything and everything big Pharma produces is poison.


Another Bout Mantra requiring impossible extrication.
Dig a hole, fall in, stay there.

[Winehole23]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/10/20/california.whooping.cough/index.html

[boutons_deux]

The United States might see the highest number of cases of whooping cough in more than five decades this year, possibly caused by a weaker vaccine, many experts say.
The Diphtheria, Tetanus, acellular Pertussis (DTaP) vaccine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DPT_vaccine) for children has not been as effective in protecting against whooping cough as the older version that was available nearly two decades ago, according to a study published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

19,450 cases of whooping cough, also known as pertussis, have been reported so far in the United States, compared to nearly 8,579 cases seen this time last year, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/outbreaks.html/).

As many as 95 percent of whooping cough cases might result from the waning immunity of people who were initially vaccinated but have not gotten the booster vaccine, according to Dr. William Schaffner, chairman of preventive medicine at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, Tenn.

The original vaccine, which contained a small amount of inactivated whole bacteria, was a crude form that brought with it side effects like fever and swelling at the injection site,
but it was considered lifelong lasting at preventing the disease. In the late 1990s, it was substituted for a so-called cleaner vaccine that only used small particles of the bacteria and was considered safer but might not be as effective long term.

"That makes getting the booster shot more important," Schaffner said.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/whooping-cough-vaccine-effective-early-form-study-finds/story?id=16898211

hmm, the new, improved vaccine doesn't work as well, doesn't work as long, so you BigPharma can sell you more shots.

[leemajors]

Tits McGee backtracks:

http://time.com/60416/jenny-mccarthy-anti-vaccine-whitewash/

http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/26784527-452/jenny-mccarthy-the-gray-area-on-vaccines.html#.U0vo3PldV8E

[scott]

the MSDS (http://www.improbable.com/2010/03/24/dhmo-material-safety-data-sheet/)

Thank you for sharing.

Get the word out!

[TeyshaBlue]

Fuck Big Hydrogen!!!

[RandomGuy]

you want snake oil? :lol

7 Drugs Whose Dangerous Risks Emerged Only After Big Pharma Made Its Money

http://www.alternet.org/personal-health/7-drugs-whose-dangerous-risks-emerged-only-after-big-pharma-made-its-money



Individual drugs are not equivalent to vaccines in general.

Vaccines are very often money losers to the companies that make them.

The analogy fails.

Do you think vaccines cause autism?

[RandomGuy]

Thank you for sharing.

Get the word out!

Holy crap, are they putting that in our WATER?

[Winehole23]

odd wrinkle: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736%2814%2960900-4/fulltext

[pgardn]

And some bad news here in SA



http://www.news4sanantonio.com/news/features/trouble-shooters/stories/huge-increase-vaccine-exemptions-at-sa-schools-285.shtml

[RandomGuy]

The danger is not for the children who have been vaccinated. It's more for the child that has not," she said. And while the percent increases in vaccine exemptions in San Antonio schools is startling, unvaccinated students are among a very small minority.

Read More at: http://www.news4sanantonio.com/news/features/trouble-shooters/stories/huge-increase-vaccine-exemptions-at-sa-schools-285.shtml

Is it child abuse to not vaccinate your kids?

[Cry Havoc]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/g1lev1/an-outbreak-of-liberal-idiocy

Daily Show throwing it down.

[pgardn]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/g1lev1/an-outbreak-of-liberal-idiocy

Daily Show throwing it down.

:clap

Too good.

[Cry Havoc]

The idea that every single medical mind in the field, or approaching 100% of them, is in on some elaborate ploy to siphon money from wallets using vaccines that saves the lives of children approaches levels of absurdity that just aren't quantifiable. The thought that an entire scientific community is vindictively targeting the entire population of the world with harmful doses of medicine... how the fuck do you function on a day to day basis? Why would you trust anything? Why would you trust the food that comes off the shelves of a grocery store? It's self-delusion to the nth degree.

[pgardn]

The idea that every single medical mind in the field, or approaching 100% of them, is in on some elaborate ploy to siphon money from wallets using vaccines that saves the lives of children approaches levels of absurdity that just aren't quantifiable. The thought that an entire scientific community is vindictively targeting the entire population of the world with harmful doses of medicine... how the fuck do you function on a day to day basis? Why would you trust anything? Why would you trust the food that comes off the shelves of a grocery store? It's self-delusion to the nth degree.

It is quite an amazing phenomena.

You can line all the doctors you want and I still won't believe... WTF?
That lady is proud to say she has no need for the truth.
You can't make me believe so there...

[Cry Havoc]

It is quite an amazing phenomena.

You can line all the doctors you want and I still won't believe... WTF?
That lady is proud to say she has no need for the truth.
You can't make me believe so there...

They should just come out and say that they believe doctors want to kill their kids.

And yet, if they get sick or have a broken arm, guess who they take them to?

It's fucking daft.

[spurraider21]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/g1lev1/an-outbreak-of-liberal-idiocy

Daily Show throwing it down.
i hadn't watched the daily show in a while, and i randomly decided to tune in and saw that bit. great stuff

[boutons_deux]

Funny how the Repugs LOVE govt/authoritarian/SCIENTIFIC FORCED vaccination regulations. :lol

[TeyshaBlue]

Funny how the Repugs LOVE govt/authoritarian/SCIENTIFIC FORCED vaccination regulations. :lol


flu vaccines are a huge BigPharma marketing scam, aided and abetted by captured-regulators CDC, NIH, etc.

Rich in Vitamin I.:lmao

[Winehole23]

ooh, burn

[pgardn]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/g1lev1/an-outbreak-of-liberal-idiocy

Daily Show throwing it down.
I had too watch it again.
The lady is great.

I love it when she foams at the mouth!

[pgardn]

Funny how the Repugs LOVE govt/authoritarian/SCIENTIFIC FORCED vaccination regulations. :lol

Upper class white LIBERAL communities, my communities, the ones that juice!

[boutons_deux]

Rich in Vitamin I.:lmao

Repugs NEVER cross their BigPharma paymasters.

TB :lol RICH in Vit Bullshit

[TeyshaBlue]

I can always count on boutons to double-down on stupid.:lmao

[boutons_deux]

Sorry, "Daily Show": Anti-Vax Nuts Come From Both Sides of the Aisle

The Daily Show did a segment last night propagating the meme that anti-vaccine hysteria is mostly a pathology of the granola-crunching, hippie-dippie left. However, just in case anyone cares about the actual truth

http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_vaccine_autism_liberal_conservative.jpg

Here's the truth: anti-vaccine lunacy has no special ideological valence.

Liberals and conservatives share it in approximately equal numbers.

The basic chart is on the right. (http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/01/liberals-finally-cleared-anti-vaccine-madness) The black line represents how risky various groups think vaccines are, and it's pretty flat: it starts at around 1.8 among the very liberal and ends at about 2.0 for the very conservative. That's as bipartisan as it gets.

I suppose it's possible that if you broke out the tiny minority who think vaccines are extremely risky, you might find more hippie-dippie lefties than gun-toting righties. I don't know.

But it's a minuscule fringe belief in any case: Fewer than 1 percent of parents (http://www.culturalcognition.net/blog/2014/3/4/a-nice-empirical-study-of-vaccine-risk-communication-and-an.html) refuse to allow their children to receive any vaccines at all.

A quaint notion, to be sure.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2014/06/sorry-daily-show-anti-vax-nuts-come-both-sides-aisle

[TeyshaBlue]

lol motherjones missing the irony of Stewart's piece and immediately saying " Conservatives do it too!". lol third grade "journalism".
lol echo chamber.

[TeyshaBlue]

I can always count on boutons to double-down on stupid.:lmao
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/vaderfail.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/teyshablue/media/vaderfail.jpg.html)

[RandomGuy]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/g1lev1/an-outbreak-of-liberal-idiocy

Daily Show throwing it down.

:tu

[TeyshaBlue]

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/dear-parents-you-are-being-lied

[RandomGuy]

lol motherjones missing the irony of Stewart's piece and immediately saying " Conservatives do it too!". lol third grade "journalism".
lol echo chamber.

Follow to the source.

http://prospect.org/article/vaccine-fear-mongers-are-wrong-theyre-not-ideological

Finally got me to an actual link to the study and empirical data:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2386034

In this case, motherjones had it right.

That is the danger of ad hominems logical fallacies.

Yes, conservatives do it too, according to the study.

Still, liberals should be the first ones to call out other liberals from being stupid about evidence and science. That is what keeps us from being... conservatives.

[TeyshaBlue]

Not invalidating Mother Jones data, just the fevered need to say "He did it too!".
There was a fair amount of satire, per Stewart ususal, that was completely lost on MJ.

[TeyshaBlue]

Still, liberals should be the first ones to call out other liberals from being stupid about evidence and science. That is what keeps us from being... conservatives.

Really? Fascinating.
lol broadbrush.

[pgardn]

Follow to the source.

http://prospect.org/article/vaccine-fear-mongers-are-wrong-theyre-not-ideological

Finally got me to an actual link to the study and empirical data:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2386034

In this case, motherjones had it right.

That is the danger of ad hominems logical fallacies.

Yes, conservatives do it too, according to the study.

Still, liberals should be the first ones to call out other liberals from being stupid about evidence and science. That is what keeps us from being... conservatives.

Social conservatives maybe.

Big Pharma controls science dontcha know? Nothing in science is ever done independently without an eye on wealth guiding the truth. Right boots?

[Gummi Clutch]

bump

[pgardn]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/los-angeles-vaccination-rates/?mobile_redirect=false

The "educated" elite in LA don't vaccinate their kids. Tis a joke...
The map is awesome though.
Ahhh, Hollywood. Tom Cruise says don't listen to science.

[RandomGuy]

Bump.

Because it is still relevant, and if you don't vaccinate your children, you are still a horrible parent.

[RandomGuy]

Mom Gives Up Anti-Vax Stance Just Before 7 Children Get Whooping Cough
https://gma.yahoo.com/mom-gives-anti-vax-stance-just-7-children-220208357--abc-news-wellness.html
Whoops....



A mother who didn't believe in vaccines for years is now writing about her experience after all seven of her children became sick with whooping cough and hopes to inspire other parents to reconsider vaccination.

Tara Hills, of Ottawa, Canada, wrote about her decision in a post for the Scientific Parent Blog, titled "Learning the Hard Way."

Hills said she was writing from "quarantine" after all of her children became sick from pertussis, commonly known as whooping cough. Hills said her children showed symptoms for a week before she realized it wasn't just the common cold.

"My youngest three children were coughing so hard they would gag or vomit. I’d never seen anything like this before," she wrote. "Watching our youngest struggle with this choking cough, bringing up clear, stringy mucus – I had heard of this before somewhere."

It is sad that kids are going to bear the brunt of their parents stupidity. At least she figured it out. Reality has a way of asserting itself into the anti-vax fantasy world...

[RandomGuy]

"communal responsibility"

The stake in the heart of libertarianism...

[pgardn]

California denies exemptions based on religion, personal reasons other than medical.

Pretty damn important.

[RandomGuy]

California denies exemptions based on religion, personal reasons other than medical.

Pretty damn important.

Hooray.

http://www.mercurynews.com/health/ci_28407108/gov-jerry-brown-signs-californias-new-vaccine-bill


SACRAMENTO -- Ending months of speculation on whether he would endorse the incendiary legislation, Gov. Jerry Brown this morning signed into law Senate Bill 277, which requires almost all California schoolchildren to be fully vaccinated in order to attend public or private school, regardless of their parents' personal or religious beliefs.

California now joins only two other states -- Mississippi and West Virginia -- that permit only medical exemptions as legitimate reasons to sidestep vaccinations.


Of course that made Jim Carey call him a "fascist". (care to guess who Carey used to date? ) heh.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jim-carrey-california-vaccination-law-gov-brown-corporate-fascist-n384931

[Shastafarian]

He is a fascist for forcing morphine vaccines on our poor children.

[RandomGuy]

He is a fascist for forcing morphine vaccines on our poor children.

um... what the fuck is a "morphine vaccine"?

[Shastafarian]

um... what the fuck is a "morphine vaccine"?

Read the first two pages of this thread for lolz

[RandomGuy]

No, more like a car accident and you need some morphine for pain.

Wow... how did I miss this gem?

That is a shockingly bad analogy...

[RandomGuy]

Sounds scientific!

Shit man none of the stuff SA210 posted was actually science. Just reposts of resposts of stuff copied from other anti-vax websites.

I tried to actually hunt down a peer-reviewed paper through all of that garbage and found... bupkiss.

[RandomGuy]

$50 if you can tell me the main function of vitamin D in the body without looking it up.

Healthy bones?

I know rickets is caused by a lack of vitamin D. Just going to make a slightly educated guess before googling.

[RandomGuy]

Beyond its use to prevent osteomalacia or rickets, the evidence for other health effects of vitamin D supplementation in the general population is inconsistent.[5][6] The best evidence of benefit is for bone health.[7] The effect of vitamin D supplementation on mortality is not clear, with one meta-analysis finding a decrease in mortality in elderly people,[8] and another concluding no clear justification exists for recommending vitamin D.[9] Because it found mounting evidence for a benefit to bone health, though it had not found good evidence of other benefits, the Food and Drug Administration of the United States intends to begin requiring manufacturers to declare the amount of Vitamin D on nutrition facts labels, as "nutrients of public health significance".[10]

In the liver, cholecalciferol (vitamin D3) is converted to calcidiol, which is also known as calcifediol (INN), 25-hydroxycholecalciferol (aka 25-hydroxyvitamin D3 — abbreviated 25(OH)D3). Ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) is converted in the liver to 25-hydroxyergocalciferol (aka 25-hydroxyvitamin D2 — abbreviated 25(OH)D2). These two specific vitamin D metabolites are measured in serum to determine a person's vitamin D status.[11][12] Part of the calcidiol is converted by the kidneys to calcitriol, the biologically active form of vitamin D.[13] Calcitriol circulates as a hormone in the blood, regulating the concentration of calcium and phosphate in the bloodstream and promoting the healthy growth and remodeling of bone. Calcitriol also affects neuromuscular and immune function.[14]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/173/164/nailed_it_RE_20th_Century_fox_theme_on_flute-s240x320-227191.jpg

[Shastafarian]

Healthy bones?

I know rickets is caused by a lack of vitamin D. Just going to make a slightly educated guess before googling.

Basically yeah though it was a bit of a trick question because Vitamin D has other important roles. But I knew he'd duck it either way. After all, one can take as much vitamin D as they want with no repercussions!*


* - Not true at all.

[SnakeBoy]

Italy approves hotly contested mandatory vaccine program

MILAN — Italy's parliament on Friday gave final approval to making a slate of childhood vaccinations mandatory for school children up to age 16 — a move aimed at countering an anti-vaccine trend that officials have attributed to misinformation.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/health/healthtrending/italy-approves-hotly-contested-mandatory-vaccine-program/ar-AAoYCdA?OCID=ansmsnnews11

I thought europeans were supposed to be smarter than us


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPEVJSM8tbA

[rmt]

Guess I must be a horrible parent then since one of mine is not fully vaccinated (has not had one since he had an anaphylactic reaction to the second dose of DTAP at age 6). I hope that all of you preaching from the choir will consider that for some kids the risk is just not worth it.

[SnakeBoy]

Guess I must be a horrible parent then since one of mine is not fully vaccinated (has not had one since he had an anaphylactic reaction to the second dose of DTAP at age 6). I hope that all of you preaching from the choir will consider that for some kids the risk is just not worth it.

There's a difference between not vaccinating for medical reasons and not vaccinating just because of ignorant beliefs

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/should-not-vacc.html

[rmt]

There have been 2 allergists who wanted to slowly (a little at a time waiting in between each dose) give him the remaining vaccines - they were so hellbent on vaccinating him just so he could go to public school. If I in my ignorance and following the advice of these doctors did that instead of searching for an allergist willing to give him a medical exemption, would that make me a horrible parent? Note that he took the first dose just fine, but the second dose - what a nightmare.

[spurraider21]

if endangering your child and other children makes you a horrible parent, then yes

[RandomGuy]

I thought europeans were supposed to be smarter than us


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPEVJSM8tbA

They made it 100% mandatory.

That is smarter.

[RandomGuy]

Guess I must be a horrible parent then since one of mine is not fully vaccinated (has not had one since he had an anaphylactic reaction to the second dose of DTAP at age 6). I hope that all of you preaching from the choir will consider that for some kids the risk is just not worth it.

It is worth it. If you have your pediatrician telling you that you should never get any vaccination because they will all produce such a reaction, then that is sound medical advice.

If you had one bad experience, and think all vaccines are identical, then you should seek some professional pediatric advice before deciding to not vaccinate at all.

From a cost/benefit perspective, some of the deseases you get vaccinated for are pretty life threatening for kids.

I would hate to have to weigh sucha decision if my kid really was that allergic to all vaccines. "die of horrible disease" or "die of anaphalaxis"

[RandomGuy]

There's a difference between not vaccinating for medical reasons and not vaccinating just because of ignorant beliefs

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/should-not-vacc.html

YUP.

[rmt]

It is worth it. If you have your pediatrician telling you that you should never get any vaccination because they will all produce such a reaction, then that is sound medical advice.

If you had one bad experience, and think all vaccines are identical, then you should seek some professional pediatric advice before deciding to not vaccinate at all.

From a cost/benefit perspective, some of the deseases you get vaccinated for are pretty life threatening for kids.

I would hate to have to weigh sucha decision if my kid really was that allergic to all vaccines. "die of horrible disease" or "die of anaphalaxis"

Ds has been to 3 different pediatric allergists about the vaccines. The first 2 wanted to slowly put the vaccines in (a little at a time spread over several hours). One was from our Miami Children's Hospital - another from a large system of allergists. I didn't accept their solution and found a pediatric allergist who agreed with me that he could be allergic to ANY of the substances COMMON to both (such as the medium they use to carry the vaccine) and was willing to give him a medical exemption. My brothers and I had chicken pox and measles and were fine - there were no vaccines for them back then. The chance of him dying from these diseases is much smaller than him dying from anaphylaxis. And do you know what the last specialist said, "The reason why we vaccinate is to protect kids like my son who can't be vaccinated" - not because they're all gonna "die of horrible disease" Besides they're not fool-proof - I know personally of one girl who got all her vaccines and still got chicken-pox.

[monosylab1k]

Ds has been to 3 different pediatric allergists about the vaccines. The first 2 wanted to slowly put the vaccines in (a little at a time spread over several hours). One was from our Miami Children's Hospital - another from a large system of allergists. I didn't accept their solution and found a pediatric allergist who agreed with me that he could be allergic to ANY of the substances COMMON to both (such as the medium they use to carry the vaccine) and was willing to give him a medical exemption. My brothers and I had chicken pox and measles and were fine - there were no vaccines for them back then. The chance of him dying from these diseases is much smaller than him dying from anaphylaxis. And do you know what the last specialist said, "The reason why we vaccinate is to protect kids like my son who can't be vaccinated" - not because they're all gonna "die of horrible disease" Besides they're not fool-proof - I know personally of one girl who got all her vaccines and still got chicken-pox.

You're an anti-vaxxer too? What a fucking shock :lmao

[Pavlov]

Ds has been to 3 different pediatric allergists about the vaccines. The first 2 wanted to slowly put the vaccines in (a little at a time spread over several hours). One was from our Miami Children's Hospital - another from a large system of allergists. I didn't accept their solution and found a pediatric allergist who agreed with me that he could be allergic to ANY of the substances COMMON to both (such as the medium they use to carry the vaccine) and was willing to give him a medical exemption. My brothers and I had chicken pox and measles and were fine - there were no vaccines for them back then. The chance of him dying from these diseases is much smaller than him dying from anaphylaxis. And do you know what the last specialist said, "The reason why we vaccinate is to protect kids like my son who can't be vaccinated" - not because they're all gonna "die of horrible disease" Besides they're not fool-proof - I know personally of one girl who got all her vaccines and still got chicken-pox.So you didn't have the child allergist, you know, check your child for allergies?

[rmt]

So you didn't have the child allergist, you know, check your child for allergies?

He is checked every couple of years. What is your point? They don't check for vaccines - mostly common allergens - both food and environmental.

[SnakeBoy]

So you didn't have the child allergist, you know, check your child for allergies?

Damn you are stupid

[RandomGuy]

Ds has been to 3 different pediatric allergists about the vaccines. The first 2 wanted to slowly put the vaccines in (a little at a time spread over several hours). One was from our Miami Children's Hospital - another from a large system of allergists. I didn't accept their solution and found a pediatric allergist who agreed with me that he could be allergic to ANY of the substances COMMON to both (such as the medium they use to carry the vaccine) and was willing to give him a medical exemption. My brothers and I had chicken pox and measles and were fine - there were no vaccines for them back then. The chance of him dying from these diseases is much smaller than him dying from anaphylaxis. And do you know what the last specialist said, "The reason why we vaccinate is to protect kids like my son who can't be vaccinated" - not because they're all gonna "die of horrible disease" Besides they're not fool-proof - I know personally of one girl who got all her vaccines and still got chicken-pox.

Sooo you opinion shopped until you got the result you wanted, and 66% of the doctors chose an option you didn't like.

Does that sum it up?

[RandomGuy]

Ds has been to 3 different pediatric allergists about the vaccines. The first 2 wanted to slowly put the vaccines in (a little at a time spread over several hours). One was from our Miami Children's Hospital - another from a large system of allergists. I didn't accept their solution and found a pediatric allergist who agreed with me that he could be allergic to ANY of the substances COMMON to both (such as the medium they use to carry the vaccine) and was willing to give him a medical exemption. My brothers and I had chicken pox and measles and were fine - there were no vaccines for them back then. The chance of him dying from these diseases is much smaller than him dying from anaphylaxis. And do you know what the last specialist said, "The reason why we vaccinate is to protect kids like my son who can't be vaccinated" - not because they're all gonna "die of horrible disease" Besides they're not fool-proof - I know personally of one girl who got all her vaccines and still got chicken-pox.
So two specialists said it was possible that your child could be vaccinated, with a modest modification of the regimen.

Despite what conservatives and libertarians seem to think, ethical choices do not happen in a vacuum. Your choices affect others.

Your choice to have an unvaccinated child running around means a couple of things ethically:

Your child is at risk of dying from something.
Your child is at risk of spreading something to someone else, who could end up dying.

You have made the choice with being comfortable with balancing the risk between allergic reaction and vaccinating.

Are you comfortable with possibly causing someone else's death?

[Pavlov]

He is checked every couple of years. What is your point? They don't check for vaccines - mostly common allergens - both food and environmental.but just speculate on others?

[rmt]

So two specialists said it was possible that your child could be vaccinated, with a modest modification of the regimen.

Despite what conservatives and libertarians seem to think, ethical choices do not happen in a vacuum. Your choices affect others.

Your choice to have an unvaccinated child running around means a couple of things ethically:

Your child is at risk of dying from something.
Your child is at risk of spreading something to someone else, who could end up dying.

You have made the choice with being comfortable with balancing the risk between allergic reaction and vaccinating.

Are you comfortable with possibly causing someone else's death?

RG, I think that you should reserve judgement until you have a child who has had a vaccine and goes into an anaphylactic reaction right in front of you - gasping for breath, breaking out in hives all over, curled up in a ball while the pediatrician frantically searches for needle and epinephrine. I hope you realize that your child could sit beside another child (from a foreign country) with any number of diseases in say DisneyWorld and be exposed to said disease compared to my child in a classroom in which all the other kids are supposed to be vaccinated. I say supposed to be vaccinated because guess what I learned at work last week - they let homeless and migrant kids (e.g. from Haiti when they had that earthquake) in without being vaccinated (and they can continue to be unvaccinated their entire tenure [there's no checking]) - of course, better they're in school than on the streets - regardless of what disease they could possibly pass on to the other students. So who knows who your kid is sitting next to.

My main concern is for my child - and his possibility of dying from anaphylaxis is greater than from chickenpox or measles.

[rmt]

but just speculate on others?

speculate on other what? I try to go as natural as possible with him - no sunscreen, no toothpaste (just electric toothbrush), no lotion/moisturizer (coconut oil instead). Anything he tries is applied to a small patch of skin first, wait, then a bit to the tongue, wait, then a bigger portion, wait, etc. with epipen, benadryl and prednisolone nearby.

[Pavlov]

speculate on other what? You just guessed about the allergy to components of vaccines.

[rmt]

Any component of the vaccine he had the reaction to is suspect (he could be allergic to). Therefore if any of those components are in the chickenpox or MMR vaccine (including the carrier), then those are also suspect. The pediatric allergist compared the ingredients of the DTap vaccine to those of the chickenpox and MMR.

[Pavlov]

Any component of the vaccine he had the reaction to is suspect (he could be allergic to). Therefore if any of those components are in the chickenpox or MMR vaccine (including the carrier), then those are also suspect. The pediatric allergist compared the ingredients of the DTap vaccine to those of the chickenpox and MMR.
You repeat yourself and myself.

[rmt]

You repeat yourself and myself.

Nobody is going to test each individual component of a vaccine. It would be difficult to get them separately and even if tested separately, one never knows if the combination of components is what caused a reaction. He took the first dose of the DTap fine. Years later, it caused a reaction. Now, it could have been a slightly different one, maybe by a different drug company - who knows? It could be that he did have a lesser reaction or a reaction that affected him in other ways (he didn't speak until he was 4 years old) - each successive exposure seems to intensify the reaction. The point is that having had a reaction before, it's not worth the risk of another (maybe more severe one) compared to having chickenpox or measles.

[RandomGuy]

So two specialists said it was possible that your child could be vaccinated, with a modest modification of the regimen.

Despite what conservatives and libertarians seem to think, ethical choices do not happen in a vacuum. Your choices affect others.

Your choice to have an unvaccinated child running around means a couple of things ethically:

Your child is at risk of dying from something.
Your child is at risk of spreading something to someone else, who could end up dying.

You have made the choice with being comfortable with balancing the risk between allergic reaction and vaccinating.

Are you comfortable with possibly causing someone else's death?





RG, I think that you should reserve judgement until you have a child who has had a vaccine and goes into an anaphylactic reaction right in front of you - gasping for breath, breaking out in hives all over, curled up in a ball while the pediatrician frantically searches for needle and epinephrine. I hope you realize that your child could sit beside another child (from a foreign country) with any number of diseases in say DisneyWorld and be exposed to said disease compared to my child in a classroom in which all the other kids are supposed to be vaccinated. I say supposed to be vaccinated because guess what I learned at work last week - they let homeless and migrant kids (e.g. from Haiti when they had that earthquake) in without being vaccinated (and they can continue to be unvaccinated their entire tenure [there's no checking]) - of course, better they're in school than on the streets - regardless of what disease they could possibly pass on to the other students. So who knows who your kid is sitting next to.

My main concern is for my child - and his possibility of dying from anaphylaxis is greater than from chickenpox or measles.

You didn't answer my question.

You did say that your primary concern was that of your child, so the lack of an answer to me means you don't want to come out and admit it.

Yes, you are comfortable with possibly causing the death of another human being, to save your child from what amounts to some discomfort, if the experts who say that is it possible to vaccinate your child safely are to be believed.

My actual view:

I understand, really I do. It is a hard call to make, and I have certainly had some scares with a kid with life-threatening allergies.

I just think it would be better, were you to be honest about the ethical implications of your decision.

Make the call you want to, just don't delude yourself about reality, however uncomfortable.

[rmt]

You didn't answer my question.

You did say that your primary concern was that of your child, so the lack of an answer to me means you don't want to come out and admit it.

Yes, you are comfortable with possibly causing the death of another human being, to save your child from what amounts to some discomfort, if the experts who say that is it possible to vaccinate your child safely are to be believed.

My actual view:

I understand, really I do. It is a hard call to make, and I have certainly had some scares with a kid with life-threatening allergies.

I just think it would be better, were you to be honest about the ethical implications of your decision.

Make the call you want to, just don't delude yourself about reality, however uncomfortable.

Am I supposed to risk my child's life on your assumption that all it's gonna cause my child is SOME DISCOMFORT? The reason the other two want to slowly put it in over hours is to be able to stop immediately if there is a reaction - hoping that because they are putting it in a little at a time, what they last put in was not enough to kill him.

I notice you say nothing about the homeless and migrant children who probably would have no reaction to vaccines sitting in classrooms unvaccinated and possibly as you think causing the death of another human being. Or ANYONE from a foreign country who has not been vaccinated sitting next to you at DisneyWorld or some movie theatre, or train? Where's the outrage there? But I'm to risk my child's life (who has had a documented reaction to a vaccine) to appease people like you. RG, if I was into swearing, I'd be doing it now - I don't think I've ever been this upset on this board. This reminds me of the pontification you liberals were doing to us deplorables last year.

[Pavlov]

rmt's actions look to be in the CDC guidelines, so I can't really fault that. I'm not sure that should swear the kid of every vaccination forever though. That's why I wondered if there were ways of finding out what components were causing the reaction.

[pgardn]

rmt should be glad that other people can vaccinate their children safely.

The heard immunity is a blessing for her.
Has this been stated anywhere in this long thread?

[DMC]

So two specialists said it was possible that your child could be vaccinated, with a modest modification of the regimen.

Despite what conservatives and libertarians seem to think, ethical choices do not happen in a vacuum. Your choices affect others.

Your choice to have an unvaccinated child running around means a couple of things ethically:

Your child is at risk of dying from something.
Your child is at risk of spreading something to someone else, who could end up dying.

You have made the choice with being comfortable with balancing the risk between allergic reaction and vaccinating.

Are you comfortable with possibly causing someone else's death?

Let me get this straight: there are no ethical choices made in space.

Close?

[SnakeBoy]

rmt should be glad that other people can vaccinate their children safely.

The heard immunity is a blessing for her.
Has this been stated anywhere in this long thread?

You should explain the concept to RandomGuy. He seems to think one child with a medical exemption is a threat to all of society.

[RandomGuy]

You should explain the concept to RandomGuy. He seems to think one child with a medical exemption is a threat to all of society.

Nope. Yet another in a long line of dishonest strawmen arguments.

Someday you might actually get around to being honest when talking about politics or addressing liberals, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Do you think being dishonest about what others think means your own beliefs are more valid? Weird.

[Spurtacular]

Stronly considered that as well. I might be able to convince my brother to go along with it, without drippy wife knowing.

Stay out of people's family affairs, faggot.

[RandomGuy]

Stay out of people's family affairs, faggot.

You do realize I am talking about my nephews, right? :rollin

[Spurtacular]

You do realize I am talking about my nephews, right? :rollin

I do. It's still faggoty to backseat parent kids that aren't yours. Have your own kids if you want to be a parent.

[Winehole23]

The World Health Organization says the number of measles (https://globalnews.ca/tag/measles/) cases in Europe jumped sharply during the first six months of 2018 and at least 37 people have died.

The U.N. agency’s European office said Monday more than 41,000 measles cases were reported in the region during the first half of the year — more than in all 12-month periods so far this decade.


The previous highest annual total was 23,927 cases in 2017. A year earlier, only 5,273 cases were reported.https://globalnews.ca/news/4397490/measles-europe/

[RandomGuy]

[/FONT][/COLOR]https://globalnews.ca/news/4397490/measles-europe/[/FONT][/COLOR]

It will start taking out those with no vaccinations and vulnerabilities. I guess we as a species will be better off overall by removing both gullible people and their children who happen to also be people for whom the disease is more deadly. Sad, but that is the reality.

[rmt]

It will start taking out those with no vaccinations and vulnerabilities. I guess we as a species will be better off overall by removing both gullible people and their children who happen to also be people for whom the disease is more deadly. Sad, but that is the reality.

I will refrain from commenting on your comments on vaccinations. I will instead vent about the $2 convenience fee on $15 science fee - talk about ripoff - the school is probably getting a cut of this - just sent off an earful to the Principal and Assistant Principal.

[Spurtacular]

The thread that RandomGuy (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1813) was considering fucking over someone else's kids. :lmao

[RandomGuy]

I will refrain from commenting on your comments on vaccinations. I will instead vent about the $2 convenience fee on $15 science fee - talk about ripoff - the school is probably getting a cut of this - just sent off an earful to the Principal and Assistant Principal.

The school has to pay for supplies and so forth, as well as have a nurse on staff. They aren't out to make big bucks here.

Your concern is ill-founded and almost certainly an overreaction.

[RandomGuy]

I do. It's still faggoty to backseat parent kids that aren't yours. Have your own kids if you want to be a parent.

At some point, if someone is harming their kids, then you take those kids away.

Just like the morons who think prayer will make infections go away, and have two of their kids die.

[rmt]

The school has to pay for supplies and so forth, as well as have a nurse on staff. They aren't out to make big bucks here.

Your concern is ill-founded and almost certainly an overreaction.

AP calls me today and says of course, I can pay by cash or check (even though ds said they told kids to pay online). She also said other parents complained.

I have no objection to a $15 science fee, but I am NOT paying a $2 convenience fee to do it online.

[Spurtacular]

At some point, if someone is harming their kids, then you take those kids away.

Just like the morons who think prayer will make infections go away, and have two of their kids die.

Have your own kids if you want to be a parent.

[RandomGuy]

RG, I think that you should reserve judgement until you have a child who has had a vaccine and goes into an anaphylactic reaction right in front of you - gasping for breath, breaking out in hives all over, curled up in a ball while the pediatrician frantically searches for needle and epinephrine. I hope you realize that your child could sit beside another child (from a foreign country) with any number of diseases in say DisneyWorld and be exposed to said disease compared to my child in a classroom in which all the other kids are supposed to be vaccinated. I say supposed to be vaccinated because guess what I learned at work last week - they let homeless and migrant kids (e.g. from Haiti when they had that earthquake) in without being vaccinated (and they can continue to be unvaccinated their entire tenure [there's no checking]) - of course, better they're in school than on the streets - regardless of what disease they could possibly pass on to the other students. So who knows who your kid is sitting next to.

My main concern is for my child - and his possibility of dying from anaphylaxis is greater than from chickenpox or measles.

No, it isn't, and provably so.

Best anti-vaxxers can get is deaths on the on per millions from vaccine reactions at the MOST charitable reading for their case from available data. Measles kills on the order of one per thousands, three orders of magnitudes worse.

[RandomGuy]

[/FONT][/COLOR]https://globalnews.ca/news/4397490/measles-europe/[/FONT][/COLOR]

... and the recent outbreaks.

Facebook has started cracking down on anti-vax woo groups.

I joined one just to see what it was like, and it was pretty much what one would expect.

I have a friend, who I try to patiently walk through the bullshit with, but she just can't or won't see the forest for the trees.

I can say that there is some concerning science about aluminum conjunctivants, but what is there is vastly overblown by vaccine opponents.

[boutons_deux]

Arizona House Panel Votes to Expand Vaccine Exemptions Amid Ongoing Measles Outbreak (http://feeds.kinja.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/vxIM8EZ3vXM/arizona-house-panel-votes-to-expand-vaccine-exemptions-1832857390)


https://gizmodo.com/arizona-house-panel-votes-to-expand-vaccine-exemptions-1832857390?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmodo%2Ffull+%28Gizmodo%29

[Pavlov]

Arizona House Panel Votes to Expand Vaccine Exemptions Amid Ongoing Measles Outbreak (http://feeds.kinja.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/vxIM8EZ3vXM/arizona-house-panel-votes-to-expand-vaccine-exemptions-1832857390)


https://gizmodo.com/arizona-house-panel-votes-to-expand-vaccine-exemptions-1832857390?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmodo%2Ffull+%28Gizmodo%29H ave they tried thoughts and prayers?

[Spurtacular]

:cry

Did you kidnap your brother's kids yet?

[RandomGuy]

RG, I think that you should reserve judgement until you have a child who has had a vaccine and goes into an anaphylactic reaction right in front of you - gasping for breath, breaking out in hives all over, curled up in a ball while the pediatrician frantically searches for needle and epinephrine. I hope you realize that your child could sit beside another child (from a foreign country) with any number of diseases in say DisneyWorld and be exposed to said disease compared to my child in a classroom in which all the other kids are supposed to be vaccinated. I say supposed to be vaccinated because guess what I learned at work last week - they let homeless and migrant kids (e.g. from Haiti when they had that earthquake) in without being vaccinated (and they can continue to be unvaccinated their entire tenure [there's no checking]) - of course, better they're in school than on the streets - regardless of what disease they could possibly pass on to the other students. So who knows who your kid is sitting next to.

My main concern is for my child - and his possibility of dying from anaphylaxis is greater than from chickenpox or measles.

Unfortunately they have discovered that measles... is a bit deadlier than the anti-vax propaganda that you use to "inform" your decisions wants you to believe.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25954009


Immunosuppression after measles is known to predispose people to opportunistic infections for a period of several weeks to months. Using population-level data, we show that measles has a more prolonged effect on host resistance, extending over 2 to 3 years. We find that nonmeasles infectious disease mortality in high-income countries is tightly coupled to measles incidence at this lag, in both the pre- and post-vaccine eras. We conclude that long-term immunologic sequelae of measles drive interannual fluctuations in nonmeasles deaths. This is consistent with recent experimental work that attributes the immunosuppressive effects of measles to depletion of B and T lymphocytes. Our data provide an explanation for the long-term benefits of measles vaccination in preventing all-cause infectious disease. By preventing measles-associated immune memory loss, vaccination protects polymicrobial herd immunity.

[boutons_deux]

is there some kind delirious shit in the water out West?

Arizona Republican claims vaccines are just like Communism in bizarre tirade

https://www.rawstory.com/2019/02/arizona-republican-claims-vaccines-just-like-communism-bizarre-tirade/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

America is fucked and unfuckable because Americans can agree, or develop a consensus of what is real and what is bullshit. Repugs are ALL full of bullshit.

[Pavlov]

CROFL Tejas
1100764383792123904

[RandomGuy]

CROFL Tejas
1100764383792123904

um... yeah.

That is a trope, with some grain of truth. Improvements in nutrition have reduced measles lethality, with asshats mistaking that for antibiotic availability. (hint: measles is a virus)

What the anti-vaxxers don't like to admit is that measles is far more deadly to infants than to older kids.

When measles gets more widespread, and it will, we will see an uptick in infant deaths. It won't take too many dead babies before they realize they made a mistake.


Measles: A Dangerous Illness
Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn't do anything.

"Are you feeling all right?" I asked her.

"I feel all sleepy," she said.

In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.

The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was twenty-four years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.

On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles. I was unable to do that for Olivia in 1962 because in those days a reliable measles vaccine had not been discovered. Today a good and safe vaccine is available to every family and all you have to do is to ask your doctor to administer it.

It is not yet generally accepted that measles can be a dangerous illness. Believe me, it is. In my opinion parents who now refuse to have their children immunised are putting the lives of those children at risk. In America, where measles immunisation is compulsory, measles like smallpox, has been virtually wiped out.

Here in Britain, because so many parents refuse, either out of obstinacy or ignorance or fear, to allow their children to be immunised, we still have a hundred thousand cases of measles every year. Out of those, more than 10,000 will suffer side effects of one kind or another. At least 10,000 will develop ear or chest infections. About 20 will die.

LET THAT SINK IN.

Every year around 20 children will die in Britain from measles.

So what about the risks that your children will run from being immunised?

They are almost non-existent. Listen to this. In a district of around 300,000 people, there will be only one child every 250 years who will develop serious side effects from measles immunisation! That is about a million to one chance. I should think there would be more chance of your child choking to death on a chocolate bar than of becoming seriously ill from a measles immunisation.

So what on earth are you worrying about? It really is almost a crime to allow your child to go unimmunised.

The ideal time to have it done is at 13 months, but it is never too late. All school-children who have not yet had a measles immunisation should beg their parents to arrange for them to have one as soon as possible.

Incidentally, I dedicated two of my books to Olivia, the first was 'James and the Giant Peach'. That was when she was still alive. The second was 'The BFG', dedicated to her memory after she had died from measles. You will see her name at the beginning of each of these books. And I know how happy she would be if only she could know that her death had helped to save a good deal of illness and death among other children.

[boutons_deux]

Decade-Long Study Shows No Link Between Measles Vaccine And AutismResearchers examined all children born in Denmark from 1999 to 2010 ― a group of 657,461 children.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/measles-vaccine-autism-study_n_5c7db0b5e4b069b2129ee55c?ncid=newsltushpmg news__TheMorningEmail__030519

[SpursforSix]

Decade-Long Study Shows No Link Between Measles Vaccine And Autism

Researchers examined all children born in Denmark from 1999 to 2010 ― a group of 657,461 children.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/measles-vaccine-autism-study_n_5c7db0b5e4b069b2129ee55c?ncid=newsltushpmg news__TheMorningEmail__030519

I'm not an anti vaxer and definitley believe it's safe. But it's funny as shit that you use a study fudned in part by BigPharma.

[RandomGuy]

I'm not an anti vaxer and definitley believe it's safe. But it's funny as shit that you use a study fudned in part by BigPharma.

Pretty much what the anti-vax community is saying. They are really freaking out over a bill to make vaccines mandatory. oooh the drama.

[RandomGuy]

nDjz5qHIzsc

[SpursforSix]

Pretty much what the anti-vax community is saying. They are really freaking out over a bill to make vaccines mandatory. oooh the drama.

My comment really didn't have anything to do with anti-vax or the study itself. Just that it was funny that boots used it as backup. A company that's a player in the vaccine industry funding a study that says that vaccines are OK.

[SpursforSix]

"Vaccine Industry" wtf? :lol

BigVax...under the umbrella of BigPharma.

[RandomGuy]

BigVax...under the umbrella of BigPharma.

Vaccines don't make that much money for these companies. What does make a lot of money though is the "natural" remedy snake oil poeple. Those fuckers are some shifty shits.

[SpursforSix]

Vaccines don't make that much money for these companies. What does make a lot of money though is the "natural" remedy snake oil poeple. Those fuckers are some shifty shits.

I'm not sure if you're thinking about any natural remedy in particular. Many natural remedies have been shown to work. Tumeric for example. But yeah...a lot of it is just jumping on to something new, promoting the hell out of it, then moving on to the next one once the hype train begins to take off. That being said, I do think there are natural remedies that people should look at first before treating with prescriptions. Vaccines not being one of these cases.

[RandomGuy]

I'm not sure if you're thinking about any natural remedy in particular. Many natural remedies have been shown to work. Tumeric for example. But yeah...a lot of it is just jumping on to something new, promoting the hell out of it, then moving on to the next one once the hype train begins to take off. That being said, I do think there are natural remedies that people should look at first before treating with prescriptions. Vaccines not being one of these cases.

Natural remedies shown to verifiably work.. then become "remedies". Hemlock is "natural".

I think the dangerous thing is the anti-vaxx nutters thinking that if it is "natural" it must be good for you. I am reminded of a story about a doctor having to explain that to his patient taking St. John's Wort, who reminded his patient that he has a plant in his back yard that would kill her if she just sat under it for 10 minutes.

[SpursforSix]

Natural remedies shown to verifiably work.. then become "remedies". Hemlock is "natural".

I think the dangerous thing is the anti-vaxx nutters thinking that if it is "natural" it must be good for you. I am reminded of a story about a doctor having to explain that to his patient taking St. John's Wort, who reminded his patient that he has a plant in his back yard that would kill her if she just sat under it for 10 minutes.

Sure no disagreement about that. And many, while they may have a benefit for one malady, also can have worse long term effects. Especially on the kidney and liver.
But it's just the other side of the same coin as BigPharma. All about the dollars in the end.

That being said, I do believe that putting the right things in your body will eliminate (or significantly lower) the chances of many diseases. Eating a healthy diet means you're likely getting most of those "right things" anyway.
But depending on your specific condition, there could be plenty of natural safer alternatives to prescriptions.

[boutons_deux]

18-year-old anti-vaxxer student who sued to attend school during outbreak contracts chickenpox (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/8/1856309/-18-year-old-anti-vaxxer-student-who-sued-to-attend-school-during-outbreak-contracts-chicken-pox) :lol

https://images.dailykos.com/images/673711/story_image/ScreenShot2019-05-08at11.35.25AM.png?1557340539

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/8/1856309/-18-year-old-anti-vaxxer-student-who-sued-to-attend-school-during-outbreak-contracts-chicken-pox?detail=emaildkre (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/8/1856309/-18-year-old-anti-vaxxer-student-who-sued-to-attend-school-during-outbreak-contracts-chicken-pox?detail=emaildkre)

[koriwhat]

18-year-old anti-vaxxer student who sued to attend school during outbreak contracts chickenpox (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/8/1856309/-18-year-old-anti-vaxxer-student-who-sued-to-attend-school-during-outbreak-contracts-chicken-pox) :lol

https://images.dailykos.com/images/673711/story_image/ScreenShot2019-05-08at11.35.25AM.png?1557340539

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/8/1856309/-18-year-old-anti-vaxxer-student-who-sued-to-attend-school-during-outbreak-contracts-chicken-pox?detail=emaildkre (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/5/8/1856309/-18-year-old-anti-vaxxer-student-who-sued-to-attend-school-during-outbreak-contracts-chicken-pox?detail=emaildkre)

i was vaccinated as a kid and got chickenpox... so... damn yall just keep reaching and reaching.

[boutons_deux]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2657090/

[Pelicans78]

i was vaccinated as a kid and got chickenpox... so... damn yall just keep reaching and reaching.

Was the chickenpox vaccine around when you were younger? It wasn’t made available until some time in the 90s.

[spurraider21]

angry druggy thinks one shot vaccinated everything

[Pavlov]

i was vaccinated as a kid and got chickenpox... so... damn yall just keep reaching and reaching.


Was the chickenpox vaccine around when you were younger? It wasn’t made available until some time in the 90s.


angry druggy thinks one shot vaccinated everything:lmao kori

[SpursforSix]

i was vaccinated as a kid and got chickenpox... so... damn yall just keep reaching and reaching.

Very strange. Wait...did this "vaccination" involve another man putting his penis in your butt?

You might have been conned.

[boutons_deux]

angry druggy thinks one shot vaccinated everything

and that his anecdote has any significance for demographic/population policy

[koriwhat]

angry druggy thinks one shot vaccinated everything

prove i'm angry and a druggy. you can't. just more bs from faggots like yourself.

[RandomGuy]

Yet another debate that will have some urgency when we get COVID 19 vaccines.

Ima line up for that one on day one.

[boutons_deux]

Yet another debate that will have some urgency when we get COVID 19 vaccines.

Ima line up for that one on day one.

Only 70% poll as getting the vaccine most of them are Democrats not Republicans

[DMC]

Yet another debate that will have some urgency when we get COVID 19 vaccines.

Ima line up for that one on day one.

I'll send you my DNA code for "your" kids.

[tholdren]

Yet another debate that will have some urgency when we get COVID 19 vaccines.

Ima line up for that one on day one.

wrong

[RandomGuy]

wrong

:lmao :jack strikes again.

[Spurtacular]

Yet another debate that will have some urgency when we get COVID 19 vaccines.

Ima line up for that one on day one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUBIU0gkWfs

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Trump supporters feel they have to be anti vaccination now?

[tholdren]

:lmao :jack strikes again.

Lol 2x flu

[RandomGuy]

:lol Trump supporters feel they have to be anti vaccination now?

Bewilderingly ... yes.

[RandomGuy]

Lol 2x flu

:lol claims without evidence. If you had the evidence you would post it. Repeatedly. It's like you don't want someone to look at your underlying assumptions.

That is dishonest.

You still suck at this.

:jack some more.

[tholdren]

:lol claims without evidence. If you had the evidence you would post it. Repeatedly. It's like you don't want someone to look at your underlying assumptions.

That is dishonest.

You still suck at this.

:jack some more.

weeks ago the cdc reported the ifr as 2x flu. You arent smart.

[pgardn]

Wow. I just came across this. Check it out.


Doctors Who Discovered Cancer Enzymes In Vaccines All Found Murdered
https://www.bitchute.com/video/6wudTuFr35ZP/


I didn't make it green. What's going on?




Mushrooms dude, the shrooms...

[TimDunkem]

lol Liar.

[TimDunkem]

Oh shit

WhAt Is GoInG oN

[tholdren]

lol Liar.
You still have covid like you said last week?

[TimDunkem]

^How would I know what I have since I never was tested? If you must know, I've had a persistent cough for weeks now. Haven't had a fever in a few days thankfully. Fortunately, I'm able to isolate.

Do you have a job yet?

[tholdren]

^How would I know what I have since I never was tested? If you must know, I've had a persistent cough for weeks now. Haven't had a fever in a few days thankfully. Fortunately, I'm able to isolate.

Do you have a job yet?

Lol you. It doesnt matter if you test. Lololololololol

[ChumpDumper]

This is how you can tell tholdren has nothing to do with science.

[tholdren]

This is how you can tell tholdren has nothing to do with science.
Lol you can't prove me wrong lol. Doesn't need tested. Lol

[ChumpDumper]

Lol you can't prove me wrong lol. Doesn't need tested. LolIf he wants to know whether it's COVID-19, yes, he does need to be tested.

lol you lose and are wrong again

[tholdren]

If he wants to know whether it's COVID-19, yes, he does need to be tested.

lol you lose and are wrong again

Lol no. Beahahajhahahah. Is already a count positive new case if he even has a symptom and goes to Dr . Lol where have you been Mr daily case count. Bwahahahhaha you are so clueless to this process.

Keep gossiping

[ChumpDumper]

Lol no. Beahahajhahahah. Is already a count positive new case if he even has a symptom and goes to Dr . Lol where have you been Mr daily case count. Bwahahahhaha you are so clueless to this process.

Keep gossipingLol yes. Lying and being wrong so often made you lose your mind. If he wants to know whether he has COVID-19 he needs to take the COVID-19 test.

That's just science.

[tholdren]

Lol yes. Lying and being wrong so often made you lose your mind. If he wants to know whether he has COVID-19 he needs to take the COVID-19 test.

That's just science.

lololol there's nothing being lied about. You are just ignorant to the process. What do you think a probable case is? Lololol

It doesnt matter what he wants to know. He's still going to have the same treatment as everyone else. Rest and isolation. No need for test. He survived. I was right again

[ChumpDumper]

lololol there's nothing being lied about. You are just ignorant to the process. What do you think a probable case is? Lololol

It doesnt matter what he wants to know. He's still going to have the same treatment as everyone else. Rest and isolation. No need for test. He survived. I was right againOf course it matters if he wants to know.

:lol You've gone insane.

[tholdren]

Of course it matters if he wants to know.

:lol You've gone insane.

it matters for no reason. Other than to prove me correct. You have a less than the flu chance of death unless you are 50 with a preexisting condition.

He will get the same treatment you get with the flu. He will get the same prognosis you get with the flu. See how that works,

[RandomGuy]

weeks ago the cdc reported the ifr as 2x flu. You arent smart.

:jack

That isn't a link, and it isn't evidence. That is you claiming something.

You still suck at this.

[BSfromTX]

:jack

That isn't a link, and it isn't evidence. That is you claiming something.

You still suck at this.


RG, do you have kids?

[DMC]

RG, do you have kids?

Someone has to pay the bills.