General 2013 NBA Draft Discussion

[Drom John]

28th Picks Mean 13.1, Median 5.3
2001 Tony Parker 90.2
1995 Greg Ostertag 33.8
2003 Leandro Barbosa 31.5
1993 Lucious Harris 28.7
2004 Beno Udrih 25.3
2007 Tiago Splitter 15.1
1999 Scott Padgett 13.2
2005 Ian Mahinmi 8.4
2010 Greivis Vasquez 6.6
2002 Dan Dickau 5.9
2009 Wayne Ellington 4.7
2008 Donte Greene 1.5
2011 Norris Cole 0.6
2000 Erick Barkley 0.2
2012 Perry Jones 0
1997 Keith Booth -0.8
1996 Priest Lauderdale -0.8
2006 Maurice Ager -0.9
1998 Corey Benjamin -0.9
1994 Deon Thomas n/a

58th Picks Mean 1.08, Median below -.2 and never played.
1995 Don Reid 13.7
1998 Maceo Baston 2.3
2010 Derrick Caracter 0.3
2005 Uros Slokar 0.1
2009 Lester Hudson 0
2008 Joe Crawford 0
2003 Andreas Glyniadakis -0.2
2012 Robbie Hummel n/a
2011 Ater Majok n/a
2007 Giorgios Printezis n/a
2006 J.R. Pinnock n/a
2004 Blake Stepp n/a
2000 Pete Mickeal n/a
1999 Eddie Lucas n/a
1996 Darnell Robinson n/a
2002 none
2001 none
1997 none
1994 none
1993 none

[bluebellmaniac]

28th Picks Mean 13.1, Median 5.3
2001 Tony Parker 90.2
1995 Greg Ostertag 33.8
2003 Leandro Barbosa 31.5
1993 Lucious Harris 28.7
2004 Beno Udrih 25.3
2007 Tiago Splitter 15.1
1999 Scott Padgett 13.2
2005 Ian Mahinmi 8.4
2010 Greivis Vasquez 6.6
2002 Dan Dickau 5.9
2009 Wayne Ellington 4.7
2008 Donte Greene 1.5
2011 Norris Cole 0.6
2000 Erick Barkley 0.2
2012 Perry Jones 0
1997 Keith Booth -0.8
1996 Priest Lauderdale -0.8
2006 Maurice Ager -0.9
1998 Corey Benjamin -0.9
1994 Deon Thomas n/a

58th Picks Mean 1.08, Median below -.2 and never played.
1995 Don Reid 13.7
1998 Maceo Baston 2.3
2010 Derrick Caracter 0.3
2005 Uros Slokar 0.1
2009 Lester Hudson 0
2008 Joe Crawford 0
2003 Andreas Glyniadakis -0.2
2012 Robbie Hummel n/a
2011 Ater Majok n/a
2007 Giorgios Printezis n/a
2006 J.R. Pinnock n/a
2004 Blake Stepp n/a
2000 Pete Mickeal n/a
1999 Eddie Lucas n/a
1996 Darnell Robinson n/a
2002 none
2001 none
1997 none
1994 none
1993 none

??????What do these numbers mean?

[Bruno]

??????What do these numbers mean?

It's one me. I merged this post this thread and what it was was indicated in the title.

That's the career win shares numbers for players picked at #28 and at #58.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

why the outta order business? why not just list the last 10-20 and give those numbers? the way it looks is so sloppy.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/28th-overall/280509/

[TheCerebral1]

The two guys that I've narrowed in on as a fan are Tony Mitchell and Jamaal Franklin, both have athletic upside and can be worked easily into the system. Franklin reminds me of a smaller Kawhi with less athletism. I doubt either falls, and if they both don't Nogueira is the big.

[exstatic]

why the outta order business? why not just list the last 10-20 and give those numbers? the way it looks is so sloppy.

It's IN order of what the list is: win shares.

[exstatic]

i actually like this deal. i think it spells a no option pick up for mills though. carter is still good, i wonder if a tmac and carter reunion would be in play? and it def turns that 28 into a for sure big. hell, maybe a texas 3 way for robinson.

It's not the Spurs option, it's Mills'.

[BackHome]

If we do not do a trade then we probably end up with Tony Snell/SG or Jeff Whithey/C .

[exstatic]

If we do not do a trade then we probably end up with Tony Snell/SG or Jeff Whithey/C .

...or a Euro stash. Or a traded pick.

The Spurs NEVER just draft to draft.

[BackHome]

Question have we have traded out of a first round? Would you see us trading out of first and just going with two second round picks?

[td4mvp2k]

Question have we have traded out of a first round? Would you see us trading out of first and just going with two second round picks?

they could cuz of da players there hi to mid in da 2nd rd or trade da pick for players who aint rooks


The Phoenix Suns have investigated the possibility of another first-round pick beyond their No. 5 and No. 30 slots.

“We’ve talked to a few teams about getting in the draft at different ranges,” Ryan McDonough said. “We have good assets to do that. We have to evaluate all of these guys, figure out where they’re going to go. And then if we can get in at a particular range where a guy is undervalued, we’ll try to get in and get him there.”

McDonough worked out six players on Friday, including C.J. Leslie, who could be on the board when it’s time for the Suns to make their second selection.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/20130607phoenix-suns-see-plenty-options-no-pick-nba-draft.html?nclick_check=1

[td4mvp2k]

Question have we have traded out of a first round? gortat, scola or beasley for spurs pick?

[exstatic]

Question have we have traded out of a first round? Would you see us trading out of first and just going with two second round picks?

It's happened before, a number of times. If they don't like who's on the board, they will. They never just draft to draft.

[Richie]

So what are the odds that the Hawks want to dump #19 for salary to go after free agents? I'd love Jamaal Franklin there.

[jesterbobman]

So what are the odds that the Hawks want to dump #19 for salary to go after free agents? I'd love Jamaal Franklin there.

Pretty slim, considering the Cavs have 19th pick.

Seriously though, I'd say pretty low. The difference between 17th/18th pick cap hold and the roster charge is pretty small. Far better off keeping Rookie deals. Not like you wouldn't have bidders if you got to Free agency and had to dump them if CP3 and Dwight decided to come. Surely some team with cap space would do 17th/18th for cash/TPE/pick, if needed.

[Chinook]

^Yeah, the Hawks have to be practical here. They may well end up with no free agents this off-season, and if that happens, the team is basically in rebuilding mode. Those picks would probably help them a lot there. The cap holds wouldn't prevent the Hawks from signing Paul and Splitter, either. And if the Hawks do target Splitter, then whoever they draft there could be used as bait to get the Spurs to agree to a sign-and-trade. Teams like Dallas and Cleveland are probably more likely to make deals on draft night.

Changing gears: Let's say, for example, that Bruno's suggested trade of Robinson and 34 for Bonner goes through. How far would 34 and 28 get the Spurs? Looking at recent trades, it could probably get the Spurs into the 22-24 range. Is there anyone projected that worth targeting?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

It's not the Spurs option, it's Mills'.

whatever. hypothetical. if the spurs take on cunningham? and there's a tmac and carter reunion. i think mills finds the future mins. situation difficult. no player opt in. unless maybe to play with Australian folks? cojo and decolo, too. decolo minutes have an impact. hanga. manu. the spurs could have a pretty interesting amount of depth.

[Richie]

Pretty slim, considering the Cavs have 19th pick.

Seriously though, I'd say pretty low. The difference between 17th/18th pick cap hold and the roster charge is pretty small. Far better off keeping Rookie deals. Not like you wouldn't have bidders if you got to Free agency and had to dump them if CP3 and Dwight decided to come. Surely some team with cap space would do 17th/18th for cash/TPE/pick, if needed.

My point was more about using the pick to dump a guaranteed contract for an expiring. For example, 18 + Lou Williams for Bonner + Baynes (both unguaranteed). That saves them nearly $4m in cap room.

Im not sure if the Hawks have any guaranteed contracts they want to dump, but could be an option.

[Richie]

^Yeah, the Hawks have to be practical here. They may well end up with no free agents this off-season, and if that happens, the team is basically in rebuilding mode. Those picks would probably help them a lot there. The cap holds wouldn't prevent the Hawks from signing Paul and Splitter, either. And if the Hawks do target Splitter, then whoever they draft there could be used as bait to get the Spurs to agree to a sign-and-trade. Teams like Dallas and Cleveland are probably more likely to make deals on draft night.

Changing gears: Let's say, for example, that Bruno's suggested trade of Robinson and 34 for Bonner goes through. How far would 34 and 28 get the Spurs? Looking at recent trades, it could probably get the Spurs into the 22-24 range. Is there anyone projected that worth targeting?

I think two players in that range are more valuable than a player in the low 20s. By all accounts the talent level from around 18-40 is all about the same, there's a lot of role player potential and not much else.

If someone like Franklin or Dieng falls that low they might want to have a deal in place but it sounds like there is potential for a couple of role players at #28 and #34.

[jesterbobman]

My point was more about using the pick to dump a guaranteed contract for an expiring. For example, 18 + Lou Williams for Bonner + Baynes (both unguaranteed). That saves them nearly $4m in cap room.

Im not sure if the Hawks have any guaranteed contracts they want to dump, but could be an option.

Yeah, I get that. I just think that in general, there's a lot of similarity between liking players, and dumping two recent first round picks shouldn't be too hard if you find out you'll get people in free agency. Charlotte accepts/Should accept a deal to take 17th, 18th and Lou Williams in a heartbeat, so I can't see any reason to trade them early and get the draft rights.

If they heard through back channels/unofficial communication that they could get big Free agents, they could look at trades to teams with multiple early 2nds(Cleveland, Portland) to get players who won't effect the cap as much.

[CGD]

The more I think of it, I really dont know who the Spurs would trade up to get in this draft. If Adetokunbo is available in the late first round, the players I would want the Spurs to move up for are:

Steven Adams (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/college-sports/pitt/120611-san-antonio-one-possible-destination-for-steven-adams)
Rudy Gobert
Dario Saric (though this guy may be available late)

[Captivus]

The more I think of it, I really dont know who the Spurs would trade up to get in this draft. If Adetokunbo is available in the late first round, the players I would want the Spurs to move up for are:

Steven Adams (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/college-sports/pitt/120611-san-antonio-one-possible-destination-for-steven-adams)
Rudy Gobert
Dario Saric (though this guy may be available late)

The last thing I heard, this guy withdraw from the draft...lets google it...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1667151-how-dario-saric-withdrawing-from-2013-nba-draft-impacts-the-first-round

Is this confirmed?
Strange that no team has promised him a pick.

[BackHome]

Well I think he also pulled out of camp and he is not working out with any teams so I think it is safe to say he is not coming this year.

[jyra]

http://www.talkbasket.net/7829-kupsas-getting-a-shot-at-nba.html



After putting up solid performances in the Adidas EuroCamp in Treviso, Mindaugas Kupsas put his name back on the NBA radar. Sources have informed TalkBasket.net that the 22-year-old big man has received multiple invitations to work out for teams in the States. According to reports coming from Treviso, the San Antonio Spurs are one of the teams that are interested in the player, and are exploring the option to draft Kupsas in the second round.

The 7-footer, who played for Lietkabelis Panevezys this season, has shown definite signs of improvement, upping his averages to 10.5 points and 5.5 rebounds in the Lithuanian League (LKL) and 9.8 points, 5.9 rebounds and 1.7 blocks in the Baltic Basketball League (BBL).

Kupsas is expected to be a late second round option for various NBA teams, who consider his combination of size and skill a worthy long-term investment and a potential project to stash overseas.

[BackHome]

Anytime the Spurs are mentioned by a "Source" in drafting someone you now it is BS..

[bluebellmaniac]

With Bertans injury, do we now look seriously at drafting a SF, or do we go the veteran route to back up Kawhi? Kawhi is doing spectacularly well, I could see going with a budget signing at backup. Casspi?

[exstatic]

Well I think he also pulled out of camp and he is not working out with any teams so I think it is safe to say he is not coming this year.

He's already coming. He has to file paperwork to "un-come". Until he does, he's in the draft.

[BackHome]

He's already coming. He has to file paperwork to "un-come". Until he does, he's in the draft.

Like I said he ain't coming..........:)

nternational players who withdrew from 2013 NBA Draft early entry
PLAYER TEAM (COUNTRY*)
Francois Affia Ambadiang (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Francois-Affia-Ambadiang-7228/)Geoplin Slovan (Slovenia)
Nemanja Besovic (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nemanja-Besovic-5890/)Partizan (Serbia)
Bogdan Bogdanovic (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bogdan-Bogdanovic-6145/)Partizan (Serbia)
Matias Bortolin (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Matias-Bortolin-47624/)Arkadia (Austria)
Linos Chrysikopoulos (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Linos-Chrysikopoulos-6116/)PAOK (Greece)
Djorde Drenovac Biancoblu (Italy)
Viktor Gaddefors (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Viktor-Gaddefors-6354/)Oknoplast Bologna (Italy)
Mouhammadou Jaiteh (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mouhammadou-Jaiteh-6366/)Boulogne (France)
Louis Labeyrie (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Louis-Labeyrie-40296/)Paris-Levallois (France)
Philipp Neumann (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Philipp-Neumann-6193/)Brose Baskets (Germany)
Artem Pustovyi (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Artem-Pustovyi-7111/)Khimik (Ukraine)
Marko Ramljak (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marko-Ramljak-40230/)Zadar (Croatia)
Dario Saric (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dario-Saric-5706/)Cibona (Croatia)
Walter Tavares (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Walter-Tavares-48916/)Gran Canaria (Spain)
Axel Toupane (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Axel-Toupane-40291/)Strasbourg (France)
Adin Vrabac (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Adin-Vrabac-47271/)Spars Sarajevo (Bosnia)

From DraftExpress.comhttp://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2Wdl4RN91 (http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz2Wdl4RN91)
http://www.draftexpress.com

[DrunkTXLabrat]

oooo, burn!

[exstatic]

Like I said he ain't coming..........:)

nternational players who withdrew from 2013 NBA Draft early entry
PLAYER TEAM (COUNTRY*)
Francois Affia Ambadiang (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Francois-Affia-Ambadiang-7228/)Geoplin Slovan (Slovenia)
Nemanja Besovic (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nemanja-Besovic-5890/)Partizan (Serbia)
Bogdan Bogdanovic (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bogdan-Bogdanovic-6145/)Partizan (Serbia)
Matias Bortolin (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Matias-Bortolin-47624/)Arkadia (Austria)
Linos Chrysikopoulos (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Linos-Chrysikopoulos-6116/)PAOK (Greece)
Djorde Drenovac Biancoblu (Italy)
Viktor Gaddefors (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Viktor-Gaddefors-6354/)Oknoplast Bologna (Italy)
Mouhammadou Jaiteh (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mouhammadou-Jaiteh-6366/)Boulogne (France)
Louis Labeyrie (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Louis-Labeyrie-40296/)Paris-Levallois (France)
Philipp Neumann (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Philipp-Neumann-6193/)Brose Baskets (Germany)
Artem Pustovyi (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Artem-Pustovyi-7111/)Khimik (Ukraine)
Marko Ramljak (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marko-Ramljak-40230/)Zadar (Croatia)
Dario Saric (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dario-Saric-5706/)Cibona (Croatia)
Walter Tavares (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Walter-Tavares-48916/)Gran Canaria (Spain)
Axel Toupane (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Axel-Toupane-40291/)Strasbourg (France)
Adin Vrabac (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Adin-Vrabac-47271/)Spars Sarajevo (Bosnia)

From DraftExpress.comhttp://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2Wdl4RN91 (http://www.draftexpress.com/#ixzz2Wdl4RN91)
http://www.draftexpress.com

Yeah, NOW he's not coming, since the paperwork is in. Duh, Nostradumbass.

[BackHome]

Don't be mad...:)

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i think he even said it during a scouting video. no promise of #15 or better, no nba.

scouting vids and combine interviews are pretty cool.

[exstatic]

i think he even said it during a scouting video. no promise of #15 or better, no nba.

scouting vids and combine interviews are pretty cool.

Allegedly, Dallas was hot for him, and would have kept the #13 pick ONLY to draft and stash him for a year. He wasn't having any of it.

[Baam]

I cast my vote for Glen Rice Jr, got everything we need, defense, shooting, rebounding.

And I like the story, having to go throught the long way to the nba is clearly valued on this team.

I'm not sure how he'd fit next to Manu, he's a much better playmaker than Green so I think they could do ok with each other.

Ledo seems like he may have a bit more raw talent but he's taking a shortcut to the nba by comparison.

[Baam]

Also I'd trade Cojo to Toronto for a second rounder in a heartbeat but they don't have one......

[SpursDynasty21]

I wish there was a way the Spurs could draft (or trade up for) Victor Oladipo. As an IU fan, I had the chance to watch him all season, and his whole time at IU. He's going to be a great player.

[raybies]

We need slashers, ball handlers, and creators who can shoot ang get to the rim.

Danny can work on a pull up and floater. Kawhi can do the same and he can get to the rim more next season. So it mostly falls on the bench guys. Manu can but he's declining. Tough decision this year.

Ricky ledo, Jamal franklin, tony Snell, Reggie bullock for first round. Maybe Archie. Brandon Davies, grant Jarrett , Andre Roberson for 2nd round.

Jarret Jack and David west as ideal free agents.

[MR-Clutch]

Also I'd trade Cojo to Toronto for a second rounder in a heartbeat but they don't have one......

Thats retarded.

[eDizzle20]

To me the Spurs really could use another ball handler that creates offense, so I'm hoping for Erick Green from Virginia Tech.

[Zocalo]

.

[Zocalo]

I wish there was a way the Spurs could draft (or trade up for) Victor Oladipo. As an IU fan, I had the chance to watch him all season, and his whole time at IU. He's going to be a great player.

People have him projected as a high level Tony Allen guy... and that is way off in my opinion. It wouldn't surprise me if he would become the 1st allstar out of this draft esp in the East where players like Joe Johnson are fixtures there.

[DesignatedT]

2013 Power Forward Crop by the Numbers. (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Just-By-the-Numbers-the-2013-Power-Forward-Crop-4280)

[benefactor]

Also I'd trade Cojo to Toronto for a second rounder in a heartbeat but they don't have one......
Now I remember why I don't look at this thread that much.

[Baam]

Now I remember why I don't look at this thread that much.

So you think Cojo is really good? He's come a long way since the hunchback first year version that shat the bed in Toronto when Pop gave him pity minutes but with Manu's decline I don't think he's cutting it and I don't see a lot of upside.

[benefactor]

That's because you are dumb. Find something else to do. Talking basketball doesn't suit you.

[Bruno]

349182937033474048
349216117241290754

[TheCerebral1]

349182937033474048
349216117241290754

Time for RC and Pop to take some enginuity and move assets around. Adding additional pieces that can help this team now and in the future would be a great fit. Whether it be for the immediate team (next season) or draft and stash types.

[Chinook]

I see little benefit of giving up a future first for the 27th pick. I think they'll end up trying to do what Miami did last season and just move a few picks back and collect an asset from a team that wants a player who falls.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I see a bit of potential in quite a few of the young shooting wings. He's as much a risk as a #28 pick can be, but I'm intrigued by Ricky Ledo. I also like Snell. I like Rice Jr. alot and it's been reported that the team has interviewed him, but he scares me because he's weak defensively. I'm not sure of Hardaway Jr's ceiling, but we're picking late so...whatevs, tbh. He looks like a decent NBA player. I've a feeling we might come away with Isaiah Canaan if we pick a home-grown guy. He's a tiny, but strong point guard. TP needs a backup but, if I remember correctly, he had a bad A/T ratio. And he's tiny. Don't care to have a Nate Robinson simulacrum unless he has Bruce Bowen's brain and Robinson's fire to go along with his stature.

I don't want the San Diego State guy. There are a couple of guys who can handle the rock a bit as well as long-range it that can be had fairly late in the 1st round and I'd rather have them than a garbage bucket guy, even if he can dunk well. Part of our problem was a total lack of dribbling ability when Parker was out and at the same time, there was a lack of offense. Unless there is a big with potential lying around at #28, I want one of these shooters.

I dont think I like Gobert either. He has "physically weak, weak-competition foreign guy" written all over him. I've also read that Mike Muscala is physically weak. For me, "physically weak" and "big-man" are phrases not to be conjoined, especially after what happened to Splitter against Miami/Lebron. I still see that "reverse-posterization" in my nightmares.


In short: Get one of these wing shooters. I want Rice, Ledo or Snell and wouldn't cry about Hardaway. No undersized folks (though Canaan might be picked) and no puny "big-men."

[DesignatedT]

In addition to the Pacers' Jimmer discussions, sources say Indiana has made the No. 23 pick available in hopes that an interested party would be willing to take on the contract of Gerald Green for the right to acquire Indy's pick.

The Brooklyn Nets are trying to find a home for their 2011 first-round selection, MarShon Brooks. Sources say the Nets are trying to land a second first-rounder in return. One team to watch is the Minnesota Timberwolves. If the Wolves will give the Nets the No. 26 pick in return, they'll probably have a deal on draft night.

The Wolves continue to try to move higher up in the draft to get their hands on Victor Oladipo. They're offering Derrick Williams, the No. 9 and the No. 26 pick to move up, but so far haven't found a taker. New Wolves GM Flip Saunders is enamored with Oladipo.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/60257/flurry-of-trade-talks-surrounding-draft

[Chinook]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/60257/flurry-of-trade-talks-surrounding-draft

Haha, it's like I've been following a trail of bread crumbs you've been leaving.

But I don't like Brooks. I wouldn't give up a first for him.

The Spurs can't help the Wolves to move up, but it's nice to see both that they're still trying to move Williams and that the league seems to have a low opinion of him.

[DesignatedT]

Haha, it's like I've been following a trail of bread crumbs you've been leaving.

But I don't like Brooks. I wouldn't give up a first for him.

The Spurs can't help the Wolves to move up, but it's nice to see both that they're still trying to move Williams and that the league seems to have a low opinion of him.

I agree, I am not big on Brooks as well. He wouldn't work well in the Spurs unselfish offense anyway.

While it looks like the league still has a low opinion on Williams, it doesn't seem like Minnesota has lowered any sort of asking price for him. I mean trying to move into the top 3-5 by using him as bait means they still think he has some good value.

Oladipo probably is my favorite prospect in the draft though so I like what Minnesota is trying to do there.

[Chinook]

I agree, I am not big on Brooks as well. He wouldn't work well in the Spurs unselfish offense anyway.

While it looks like the league still has a low opinion on Williams, it doesn't seem like Minnesota has lowered any sort of asking price for him. I mean trying to move into the top 3-5 by using him as bait means they still think he has some good value.

A first and a backup guard isn't terrible value, especially when you factor in the savings. I also think the Wolves have lowered their asking price. They used to consider him to be worth a top-5 pick by himself, but now they're trying to add two more picks to him. I'd say they consider him to be worth a pick in the 20s now, which the Spurs can provide along with a player they could use. Seeing as they're considering actually paying a pick for Brooks getting a pick along with Mills/De Colo could be appealing. They might try to take 9, 26, and 28 to see what they can get. And you know, I think they'd end up having more success with than than they would with trying to get someone to take Williams' contract.

[DesignatedT]

I'd say they consider him to be worth a pick in the 20s now, which the Spurs can provide along with a player they could use. Seeing as they're considering actually paying a pick for Brooks getting a pick along with Mills/De Colo could be appealing. They might try to take 9, 26, and 28 to see what they can get. And you know, I think they'd end up having more success with than than they would with trying to get someone to take Williams' contract.

I'm not sure they would do that but I certainly would :lol

[Chinook]

I'm not sure they would do that but I certainly would :lol

Not to mention, by the time the Spurs' pick rolls around, the Wolves will have either traded Williams for tried to trade him and failed repeatedly. They may just want out of his contract, and Bonner's deal allows them to do that. They might not even want the first-rounder.

[DesignatedT]

Not to mention, by the time the Spurs' pick rolls around, the Wolves will have either traded Williams for tried to trade him and failed repeatedly. They may just want out of his contract, and Bonner's deal allows them to do that. They might not even want the first-rounder.

So what are your realistic expectations for the Spurs on Thursday?

Totally expecting them to do nothing and draft the best available European stash project at 28.

[Chinook]

So what are your realistic expectations for the Spurs on Thursday?

Totally expecting them to do nothing and draft the best available European stash project at 28.

Sounds about right. I really just expect them to stand pat and sign the best backup three that most of the MLE can buy.

But I assumed that exact thing around this time two years ago, so who knows? I wouldn't be surprised to see them at least attempt to make a trade. They actually did try with Blair last draft. Mills opting in right now suggests he could be a likely candidate to be moved, and the team usually tries to cash in on partially guaranteed deals like Bonners' (succeeding with Bowen and failing with Dice).

[Ditty]

It would be nice if the Spurs traded the 28th pick & maybe Bonner to Cleveland for pick 31 & 33 if the Spurs can pick someone that is on the board that Cleveland really wants. Spurs could use those picks to draft a high risk high reward player like Goodwin or Ledo, and use the second pick to get Jean-Charles or any other euro prospect that could drop.

[Chinook]

It would be nice if the Spurs traded the 28th pick & maybe Bonner to Cleveland for pick 31 & 33 if the Spurs can pick someone that is on the board that Cleveland really wants. Spurs could use those picks to draft a high risk high reward player like Goodwin or Ledo, and use the second pick to get Jean-Charles or any other euro prospect that could drop.

Well, Cleveland DID give up 24, 33 and 34 to get 17 last season, so there's a definite precedent there.

I don't know if the Spurs do that deal, though. I think teams would only trade up for a good prospect who falls, and the Spurs may as well draft that prospect.

[Chinook]

So how would people feel about eating Marcus Camby's contract (about $5.5 Million in guaranteed money) in exchange for moving up in the draft? The Knicks are only four spots above the Spurs, but 24 seems to be an interesting spot according to some mock drafts. Some good players like Crabbe, Gorbet and Karasev are slated to still be available.

Camby would seem to be a good fit off the bench (or stuck to it unless Baynes gets injured), since he can block shots and hit a mid-range "jumper." His contract only has a million guaranteed for 2015, so he could make for another nice trade chip then.

[spursince#99]

So how would people feel about eating Marcus Camby's contract (about $5.5 Million in guaranteed money) in exchange for moving up in the draft? The Knicks are only four spots above the Spurs, but 24 seems to be an interesting spot according to some mock drafts. Some good players like Crabbe, Gorbet and Karasev are slated to still be available.

Camby would seem to be a good fit off the bench (for stuck to it unless Baynes gets injured), since he can block shots and hit a mid-range "jumper." His contract only has a million guaranteed for 2015, so he could make for another nice trade chip then.

no

[Baam]

Not a bad idea but Karasev won't make it to 24.

Gobert and Schroeder might but it's a very long shot.

Chad Ford said on twitter that teams picking in the 20s are really not excited about what's gonna be there so there may be good deals to be made.

[spursince#99]

who all have we worked out?

[Chinook]

Truth be told, I'd like a little bit more than just to move up a few spots for saving the Knicks literally $10 Million+, but I don't think it's worth another pick (especially because their next available pick is in 2016). And they don't really have any second-rounders or rights to any good players. Cash would probably do it for Holt, but obviously, that wouldn't excite me at all. I don't think it'd be worth it to New York to actually give up 24 just to save some money, though.

[DPG21920]

Truth be told, I'd like a little bit more than just to move up a few spots for saving the Knicks literally $10 Million+, but I don't think it's worth another pick (especially because their next available pick is in 2016). And they don't really have any second-rounders or rights to any good players. Cash would probably do it for Holt, but obviously, that wouldn't excite me at all. I don't think it'd be worth it to New York to actually give up 24 just to save some money, though.

That would be as bad as an RJ trade. You can buy those picks for 3-4M, no need to pay 10M for it. What are your thoughts on when you think Boris will let the Spurs know about his option?

[Chinook]

That would be as bad as an RJ trade. You can buy those picks for 3-4M, no need to pay 10M for it. What are your thoughts on when you think Boris will let the Spurs know about his option?

The deal saves the Knicks that much because of the tax. The Spurs don't have to worry about the tax, so it wouldn't cost them nearly that much.. It'd only end up being $5.5 Million in salary - Bonner's Million and whatever cash the Knicks toss in. Honestly, the net cost to Holt could be like $2 Million. You add in that getting Camby is like getting another valuable trade asset as well as the fact that he could actually give some pretty good minutes off the bench, and it's not as bad as it seems. It's just replacing Bonner with Camby and kicking his tradeable deal down the road another year.

I think Diaw will tell them soon. He probably wants to stay and would only opt out for a long-term deal with the Spurs. Despite the rumors, this summer is nothing like 2010, so I don't think Boris can expect to be overpaid. He's on a pretty fair deal, and I think he realizes that.

Bruno pointed out that Mills opting in now could mean he's in line for a draft-day trade. He certainly left himself open to that by picking up his option early. It's possible that Diaw doesn't want to get traded, so he's waiting until after the draft. But I feel like it's more likely that he just hasn't officially picked it up because there's no rush--he knows he wants to stay, and the team is fine with that.

[ace3g]

OT

Sources: Hawks look to move up in NBA draft
The Atlanta Hawks (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/atl) are dangling their two first-round picks for a trade in hopes of moving up in Thursday's NBA draft, possibly as high as the top five, sources tell Yahoo! Sports.
The Hawks have the 17th and 18th first-round selections and the 47th overall in the second round. Atlanta has had trade conversations with at least one team picking in the top five, a source said.
After being hired three days before the draft last year, Hawks general manager Danny Ferry has had more time to prepare and make inquiries for this draft.
The Hawks also are intrigued by UCLA small forward Shabazz Muhammad (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/116667), a source said.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--hawks-look-to-move-up-in-nba-draft-185704736.html

[DesignatedT]

Coach Bud.

[DesignatedT]

Was Kawhi Coach Buds guy? or was it just Coach Buds idea to trade George for another player that could help?

[DPG21920]

Sounds about right. I really just expect them to stand pat and sign the best backup three that most of the MLE can buy.

But I assumed that exact thing around this time two years ago, so who knows? I wouldn't be surprised to see them at least attempt to make a trade. They actually did try with Blair last draft. Mills opting in right now suggests he could be a likely candidate to be moved, and the team usually tries to cash in on partially guaranteed deals like Bonners' (succeeding with Bowen and failing with Dice).

Why is that? Expecting Manu to take a decent contract (7-9M)? If not that, with shipping Bonner out/amnesty on him Spurs should have that 13-15M to use for Manu + a FA. Even if Manu takes 8M and the number is 13M, that is more than the MLE. If Manu takes less (let's say 5M), then Spurs have 8M to spend. Why would they just use the MLE/MLE type money?

[DPG21920]

Also, under what scenario would the Spurs only have MLE to use?

[Chinook]

Also, under what scenario would the Spurs only have MLE to use?

Any scenario in which the Spurs stay over the cap. That means keeping Bonner, trading him for someone making equal or greater money, or giving Splitter and Ginobili bigger deals.

According to the salary thread, the Spurs will have $19.3 Million in salary space if they amnesty Bonner and renounce everyone and trade or stash their first.

Keeping Bonner takes away about $4 Million.

Keeping Splitter will initially take $7.5 Million. It could take more if he gets a quick offer from another team.

Keeping Neal will initially take $600k. It WILL take more than that.

The first-rounder will take another $400k

So already, that gets the Spurs down to $5.5 Million in cap space. If the team trade Bonner for a bigger contract and gives Neal a deal, then there will be almost nothing left under the cap for Ginobili, and it sure leaves nothing for an outside free agent.

So if Pop and Co. intend to bring back the same team, they won't necessarily have a lot of cap space. They could if they played their cards correctly, but it may be easier for them (and more "fair" for the players) to just go ahead and stay over the cap.

[DPG21920]

Also, also, why does Tiago have a cap hold when Manu does not considering they are both unrestricted free agents?

[DPG21920]

Any scenario in which the Spurs stay over the cap. That means keeping Bonner, trading him for someone making equal or greater money, or giving Splitter and Ginobili bigger deals.

According to the salary thread, the Spurs will have $19.3 Million in salary space if they amnesty Bonner and renounce everyone and trade or stash their first.

Keeping Bonner takes away about $4 Million.

Keeping Splitter will initially take $7.5 Million. It could take more if he gets a quick offer from another team.

Keeping Neal will initially take $600k. It WILL take more than that.

The first-rounder will take another $400k

So already, that gets the Spurs down to $5.5 Million in cap space. If the team trade Bonner for a bigger contract and gives Neal a deal, then there will be almost nothing left under the cap for Ginobili, and it sure leaves nothing for an outside free agent.

So if Pop and Co. intend to bring back the same team, they won't necessarily have a lot of cap space. They could if they played their cards correctly, but it may be easier for them (and more "fair" for the players) to just go ahead and stay over the cap.

Sure, I get that, I was more referencing what we thought would likely happen (i.e. Bonner being traded for cap space and/or just amnestied, Manu taking a smaller contract which is not given, letting Neal go...). It seems like the most likely scenario has the Spurs with more than MLE money.

[DPG21920]

Also, also, why does Tiago have a cap hold when Manu does not considering they are both unrestricted free agents?

Nevermind - ESPN had it wrong. Tiago is restricted hence the cap hold.

[Chinook]

Nevermind - ESPN had it wrong. Tiago is restricted hence the cap hold.

All free agents that weren't waived have cap holds. But Splitter has a qualifying offer, so I didn't renounce him in that scenario.?The Spurs could renounces him too, and he'd only count for $4.9 Million, but then they wouldn't be able to go over the cap to re-sign him. That's still not a bad deal if they think he's not going to get a big deal and they want to use the space on someone else.

[jesterbobman]

I'm pretty sure that the Spurs are fairly stats intense, so anyone they draft is going to do well in their analytic system. I've wrote the same post 5 times about how their drafting matches up decently with the WoW guys, but most of those players cam out well in Pelton's draft ratings for WARP

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/page/PerDiem-130624/ranking-prospects-warp(Current Year)

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/page/PerDiem-130625/how-warp-projections-fared (Past Years)

George Hill was 14th in the 08 rater, Chalmers was the only higher rated player available.
Blair was first in the 09 rater.
James Anderson was 12th, only higher rated player available was Hassan Whiteside
Kawhi was 7th, Mirotic and Faried available were rated higher.
Denmon was 9th, no one available rated higher.

This years highly ranked by WARP players projected 20 or later.

Roberson, DJ Cooper, Pierre Jackson, Nate Walters, Arsalan Kazemi, Mike Muscala.

and

from: http://wagesofwins.com/2013/06/25/2013-nba-draft-extravaganza-rev-2-a-pretty-good-draft/

Wolters, Kazemi, Franklin and DJ Stephens.

I'd focus your attention on those 2 groups of guys.

[Baam]

Stats don't mean everything, we know for a fact that Chip has a big say as well, there's also the character factor (doesn't have to be an angel but just a hard worker). And they factor needs as well, a contender like the Spurs that has limited playing time for propects can't completely ignore needs and just draft the best available.

Where was Cory Joseph in these rankings?

[jesterbobman]

Stats don't mean everything, we know for a fact that Chip has a big say as well, there's also the character factor (doesn't have to be an angel but just a hard worker). And they factor needs as well, a contender like the Spurs that has limited playing time for propects can't completely ignore needs and just draft the best available.

Where was Cory Joseph in these rankings?

I know that stats aren't the only thing, the cultural fit is also important. We just don't have a metric way of evaluating cultural fit, so there's not a central list of how players fit on the team to inform our evaluations of who to look at.

CoJo was 29th. Not as highly ranked, and a decent stats prospect rather than a great one.

[Baam]

Yeah at the time a lot of people questioned if Cojo was a rational pick if it was mostly the RC connection.

Still it's interesting stuff, it's pretty shocking to see guys like Crabbe, Bullock and Erick Green on the list of "landmines"...

[eDizzle20]

My top 5 preferred picks...

1. Gorgui Dieng- Great defender in every area. Would greatly increase chances of competing for title in '13-'14 (unlikely to fall this far)

2. Jamaal Franklin- Extremely athletic. Very good perimeter defender and excellent rebounder. (may be available)

3. Lucas Nogueira- Great length. Runs the floor well, but very light and not the strongest big man. (may be available)

4. Mike Muscala- Extremely polished and is a hard worker. Great post moves, but concerns about strength (will be available)

5. Livio Jean-Charles- Great length and potential. Would come over in 1-2 years. (will be available)

[cdcast]

A trade package of De Colo & 1st rd. pick-- how far up the first round could they get with that?
A pick in the late teens (Hawks' 18th pick) or one in the early 20s?

[DPG21920]

I'm pretty sure that the Spurs are fairly stats intense, so anyone they draft is going to do well in their analytic system. I've wrote the same post 5 times about how their drafting matches up decently with the WoW guys, but most of those players cam out well in Pelton's draft ratings for WARP

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/page/PerDiem-130624/ranking-prospects-warp(Current Year)

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/page/PerDiem-130625/how-warp-projections-fared (Past Years)

George Hill was 14th in the 08 rater, Chalmers was the only higher rated player available.
Blair was first in the 09 rater.
James Anderson was 12th, only higher rated player available was Hassan Whiteside
Kawhi was 7th, Mirotic and Faried available were rated higher.
Denmon was 9th, no one available rated higher.

This years highly ranked by WARP players projected 20 or later.

Roberson, DJ Cooper, Pierre Jackson, Nate Walters, Arsalan Kazemi, Mike Muscala.

and

from: http://wagesofwins.com/2013/06/25/2013-nba-draft-extravaganza-rev-2-a-pretty-good-draft/

Wolters, Kazemi, Franklin and DJ Stephens.

I'd focus your attention on those 2 groups of guys.

Excellent post! I was looking for these links to post the same thing. It's the most logical way to guess who the Spurs will draft under known scenarios (no trades for better or worse picks)

[look_at_g_shred]

I like Muscala. I believe we should take him. Might be a two year project but the end result will be great. Seems to want to put in the work to get better, and he has post moves. Something the bigs nowadays are staying away from.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(http://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Gonzaga's Kelly Olynyk, Kansas' Jeff Withey and Arizona's Grant Jerrett are working out for the Hawks in Atlanta today, sources tell Y!

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)

Cleveland pushing to acquire Dallas' 13th overall pick, with a focus on drafting Russia's Sergey Karasev, league sources tell Y!

[DesignatedT]

I'm pretty sure that the Spurs are fairly stats intense, so anyone they draft is going to do well in their analytic system. I've wrote the same post 5 times about how their drafting matches up decently with the WoW guys, but most of those players cam out well in Pelton's draft ratings for WARP

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/page/PerDiem-130624/ranking-prospects-warp(Current Year)

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/_/page/PerDiem-130625/how-warp-projections-fared (Past Years)

George Hill was 14th in the 08 rater, Chalmers was the only higher rated player available.
Blair was first in the 09 rater.
James Anderson was 12th, only higher rated player available was Hassan Whiteside
Kawhi was 7th, Mirotic and Faried available were rated higher.
Denmon was 9th, no one available rated higher.

This years highly ranked by WARP players projected 20 or later.

Roberson, DJ Cooper, Pierre Jackson, Nate Walters, Arsalan Kazemi, Mike Muscala.

and

from: http://wagesofwins.com/2013/06/25/2013-nba-draft-extravaganza-rev-2-a-pretty-good-draft/

Wolters, Kazemi, Franklin and DJ Stephens.

I'd focus your attention on those 2 groups of guys.

This is very interesting but I really don't like any of those prospects. The only one being Wolters and I still wouldn't really like that pick.

[DesignatedT]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 13m
One of the primary targets of Oklahoma City's pursuit of a Top 5 pick on Thursday, sources tell Y! Sports: Maryland 7-footer Alex Len.
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[Mr.Bottomtooth]

350070601949515777

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Matthew-Dellavedova-5829/stats/

[PlayNando]

A trade package of De Colo & 1st rd. pick-- how far up the first round could they get with that?
A pick in the late teens (Hawks' 18th pick) or one in the early 20s?
No, don't trade Nando. Play Nando.............................

The haters will become believers when they see the light that Nando has to offer. Play Nando...................

[look_at_g_shred]

No, don't trade Nando. Play Nando.............................

The haters will become believers when they see the light that Nando has to offer. Play Nando...................
............Play Blair............is that you?..............

[Marrow]

draft cheat sheet courtesy of the guys at the wagesofwins (link below)...prospects are grouped into 3 catergories

Great - picked by both of their statistical models (surefire prospects)
Good - picked by one of their statistical models (worth taking a gamble on)
Bust - self explanatory

http://wagesofwins.com/2013/06/27/2013-nba-draft-extravaganza-rev-3-eliminating-the-big-man-bias-the-euro-numbers-and-the-cheat-sheet/

[Holden_Caulfield]

350070601949515777

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Matthew-Dellavedova-5829/stats/

i hope so

[jesterbobman]

So, given that the wages of Wins guys have updated their model and included the Euro guys, updated list of players is

Muscala
Wolters
Kazemi
Bullock
Franklin
Ray McCallum
Gobert
Nougiera

As wages of wins players to target, and Wolters, Kazemi, Muscala, Roberson, DJ Cooper, Pierre jackson by WARP.(Pelton)

I would aim for Muscala/Gobert/Nougiera, and then look for one of the other guys of they're gone.

[bluebellmaniac]

Great stuff jesterbobman!

Any idea why these players have parts of their rankings blacked out?


Giannis Adetokunbo


Dennis Schroeder


Ricky Ledo




These are the top rated players according to WoW, including international from what I saw on their spreadsheet (based on both models picking them):


Player
Pos
Ht
Wins/48


Nerlens Noel
C
6'10"
0.151


Victor Oladipo
SG
6'5"
0.142


Lucas Nogueira
C
7'
0.131


Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
SG
6'5"
0.122


Mike Muscala
C
6'11"
0.120


C.J. McCollum
PG
6'3"
0.116


Rudy Gobert
C
7'2"
0.111


Jamaal Franklin
SG
6'5"
0.105


Otto Porter
SF
6'8"
0.099


Jack Cooley
C
6'9"
0.098


Ben McLemore
SG
6'5"
0.097


Shane Larkin
PG
5'11"
0.095


D.J. Stephens
PF
6'5"
0.090


Trey Burke
PG
6'1"
0.089



The "sure hit" players on this list are heavy in C and SG, which are what we are looking for. With 14 players on the "sure hit" list, this is actually a pretty deep draft. I was surprised to see Nogueira and Muscala ranked so high. If we don't get one of those 2, I'd want Franklin. We need to shore up the 2 spot quick and Franklin would do that. Other than those 3, the rest are either sure picks before ours or are players that are mostly undersized (and I'm tired of undersized players!!!).

I've never heard of Jack Cooley before. I wonder if he could play PF instead of C. ST would melt down if we drafted him as another undersized C... LOL!

The same for DJ Stephens.... a 6'5" PF and weighs only 187 lbs... really?

[Captivus]

Ok the Draft is today, so, at the end, what kind of player do fans want?
In my case...I think I want a 6'7/6'8 guy that can handle the ball and penetrate...why not!

I dont care about 3PT shooting, rebounds, anything else.

Our second unit need a guy that can attack strong.
A guy that could play SG and SF, taking Neal minutes but stronger and bigger.

[Mal]

350070601949515777

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Matthew-Dellavedova-5829/stats/

Brett Brown is bringing some Ozzies to SA. Wouldnt count Dellavedova out.

[Drom John]

[QUOTE=bluebellmaniac;6708896]Great stuff jesterbobman!

Any idea why these players have parts of their rankings blacked out?


Giannis Adetokunbo


Dennis Schroeder


Ricky Ledo

quote]

Ledo has not played above HS, the other two didn't play in leagues with enough data to translate into NBA.
So those three need scouts to evaluate instead of the computers.

[bluebellmaniac]

Thanks Drom John!

[Kindergarten Cop]

Just out of curiosity, how do you think Brown's possible departure would effect this?

[Captivus]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1685277-2013-nba-mock-draft-last-minute-picks-and-predictions/page/29

Latest Mock Draft of B/R.
I know, most of you dont like B/r, but looking at the mock, it similiar to what I expect to happen (which means nothing!!)!.

Still, I think this mock is the best Ive seen so farl....IMO!
Teams reaching for Giannis and Schroeder, Spurs picking Muscala (because Dieng, Snell, Crabbe, Nogueria, Gobert, even Ledo are gone by that time).

[ace3g]

some work out updates

http://www.projectspurs.com/2013-articles/june/spurs-draft-workout-roundup.html

[DesignatedT]

Alex Kennedy ‏@AlexKennedyNBA 1m
Dallas continues to shop #13. Minnesota and OKC want to move up. Memphis, Houston, Golden State, Philadelphia want to add a first-rounder.

[DesignatedT]

NBADraft.net ‏@nbadraftnet 2m
Hearing Phoenix could still go with a PG at 5. Michael Carter-Williams and Trey Burke both considered possibilities.

[DesignatedT]

Andy Katz ‏@ESPNAndyKatz now
According to the NBA, no trades were sent in before the 2 pm trade deadline. That means draft order is set.
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[Bruno]

I'm closing this thread temporarily to avoid having 2 threads about the draft at the same time. Please use the one in the Spurs main forum:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218692

I would re-open it tomorrow for people wanting to do "I told you so" posts.