General 2013 NBA Draft Discussion

[Bruno]

Spurs' 2013 draft picks :
Spurs will have the 28th and 58th picks in the draft.

Players available for the 2013 draft :
International players born in 1991 and college senior are automatically eligible.
College underclassmen and international players born in 92, 93 or 94 can enter in the draft.


Key dates :
April 10 - April 13 : Portsmouth invitational tournament.
April 16 : Early entry withdrawal deadline to keep NCAA eligibility.
April 20 : Nike Hoop Summit in Portland.
April 28 : Early entry eligibility deadline, teams can start workouts with them.
May 21 : Draft Lottery.
June 5? - June 7? : Draft combine in Chicago.
June 8 - June 10 : Adidas Eurocamp in Treviso.
June 17 : Early entry withdrawal deadline.
June 27 : NBA Draft in NY.

Links :
Draftexpress (http://www.draftexpress.com/index.php)
Nbadraft (http://www.nbadraft.net/)
A blog on European prospects (http://www.europeanprospects.com/)
Espn draft page (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/index)
Wiki on the lottery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Draft_Lottery)
Future draft picks (http://www.realgm.com/src_future_draftpicks.php)
NCAA players stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/players)
Euroleague players stats (http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players)

[RodNIc91]

It seems to me this draft is full of centers. Not a lot of PF although that Lima guy catches my eye, seems spurs material. Who do you think they're looking at? I mean what kind of player, position?

[Bruno]

It's very early to have some names of players Spurs could be interested in. Their biggest need is obviously a bigman but they will likely go after the best player available like most of the time. the only case if could be an issue is if the BPA is a PG and Spurs being high on their PGs.

Regarding the draft, there is an interesting new point in the CBA:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q14


When determining team salaries (for example, to determine whether a team is over the salary cap), the following are included:
- The "scale" amount for the team's unsigned first round draft pick(s). This amount begins to apply to team salary immediately upon selection in the draft. This amount can be excluded from the team salary for the current season if, before the season starts, the team and player agree in writing that the team will not sign the player during that season.

In the previous CBA, the only ways to not have eaten cap space eaten by a first round pick was to trade it away or to renounce at the player. In 2003, Spurs traded away their first round pick to Mavs who pick Josh Howard to clear more cap space.

If Spurs plan for this summer is to have some cap space, there will have an additional incentive for them to draft and stash a player with their first round pick. Going after an "Euro", who is ready to wait a little before joining the NBA, would make extra sense by freeing a little more cap space for Spurs..

[Richie]

Our pick will likely be in the high 20s so the rookie salary will only be around $900k, I don't think we'll pick a weaker player just to draft and stash them in Europe to save only $900k. Could do though.

[Biggems]

PF/C Gorgui Dieng Louisville......what do you guys think about this prospect? I definitely love his defensive potential. Working with Duncan and Splitter could help him improve his offensive game.

[Biggems]

Another player who I would like us to look at is G/F James Ennis Long Beach State. He seems to play very good against the more prominant programs that he plays against. This is a good thing, as those schools tend to send lots of players to the NBA. At 6-7 210, he has good size.

So far this year:
Arizona: 17 pts, 7 rbs, 1 ast, 1 stl, 3 TO, 6-12 FG, 3-7 3-pt, 2-2 FT
UNC: 18 pts, 8 rbs, 2 ast, 1 stl, 4 blk, 2 TO, 8-16 FG, 0-4 3-pt, 2-3 FT
USC: 13 pts, 5 rbs, 2 ast, 5 TO, 4-11 FG, 2-6 3-pt, 3-4 FT
North Alabama: 19 pt, 6 rbs, 1 ast, 2 stl, 7 TO, 6-10 FG, 0-2 3-pt, 7-9 FT

Dieng and Ennis would be a nice haul in the 2013 Draft.

[Bruno]

A quick look at the French players for the 2013 draft:

There are very little noteworthy prospect among the players born in 1991. The only one who could sneak at the end of the second round is Joffrey Lauvergne, a long and mobile bigman with a nice shooting touch.
Among younger players, Rudy Gobert is getting a lot of press. He is a crazy physical specimen (7'2" with a 7'9" wingspan). He still needs to work on his game and adds a lot of muscles but he seems to have a good work ethic. He has clearly the upside of being a major defensive force in the mold of a Tyson Chandler.
Leo Westermann moves to Serbia and is having a very nice season. He is a little in the mold of a Marko Jaric. The question mark around him is how he will fit in the NBA and if he is interested in joining it.
A player fling under the radar but who should make a lot of noise very quickly is Mam Jaiteh. He is very young (he will turn 18 in the next few days), has only 5 years of basketball behind him but is doing crazy things in the French second division league. I wouldn't be surprised to see him ending up picked in the lottery this year if he enters and stays in the draft.

[JMarkJohns]

Former UCLA center, Josh Smith:

I think very few organizations could get his weight under control, his mentality steeled, and make him anything near his talent/potential as a mobile, low-post big dictates. I think the Spurs and Thunder are two such organizations...

But the question is whether anyone thinks the Spurs would draft him in the 2nd round? I think he is worth the flier for the right team. He's Eddy Curry, but I think maybe even worse off. That said, he is a true offensive center with very good quickness, soft hands, and decent strength for the NBA.

But he's 6-10/11 and well over 300 pounds, has yet to dominate any level, and kind of floats. He was a McDonalds AA, but that doesn't really matter.

I only ask since his departure from UCLA indicates he's going to enter the draft. If available in the second, do you think the Spurs take a gamble?

[Biggems]

Ennis is continuing to have a very nice Sr year. He must be completely under the radar, because no one is talking about him even in the top 100 prospects on various sites.

2011 34 games, 10.0 pts, 4.1 rbs, 2.6 ast, 0.8 blk, 1.6 stl, 2.0 to, FG .498, 3pt FG .350, FT .711
2012 12 games, 17.1 pts, 7.3 rbs, 1.9 ast, 1.7 blk, 1.4 stl, 3.2 to, FG .443, 3pt FG .351, FT .841

Dieng is just coming back from injury and getting back into the groove. He had a decent outing in his last game.

I would like to add a 2nd round pick....if we can somehow trade Blair for a 2nd, that would be nice. With that 2nd, I would like to add another big, now that Blair will be off the team and Bonner most likely will not be back next year. I would like to add Mike Muscala of Bucknell. He is 6-11, 234.....avg almost 20 pts, 11 rbs, and 2.5 blks per game. He shoots over 50% FG and 80% FT. He isn't a great athlete, but he has a nice skillset and a high basketball IQ. He just seems like the kind of player Pop likes....lots of substance, little flash.

1-F/C Dieng
2-F/C Muscala
2-G/F Ennis

Give me this draft and I will be so flippin happy.....especially if this draft follows a Championship.

C - Splitter, Dieng, Muscala
PF - Duncan, Diaw
SF - Leonard, Neal, Ennis
SG - Green, Manu, de Colo
PG - Parker, Mills, Joseph

[BackHome]

I like Dieng he is a 6'11 Center who loves playing defense and can rebound and block some shots the things we have been asking RC for years. My other choice would be Jackie Carmichael a PF who is 6'9 is also a a big time rebounder and a decent shot blocker and plays the pick and roll so he can hit the outside shot. Another guy would be PF Mike Moser from UNLV who is 6'8 PF a good defender.

Going over seas I like Agusto Cesar Lima a PF who is 6'10 is still young but has all the talent to be a really good player. It would be nice to add another second round pick to be able to pick up some body like Oleksandr Lypouy..he can play and defend three positions and he is the first Euro where I have heard he loves to play defense seen some film but not sure but people talking about him a lot. Have to agree Bruno they are a lot of really good looking players in the French League and I also like Joffrey Laveragne a 6'11 PF/C - he has good movement and speed and looks like a good develop into a good player.

I think we bring over Hanga this summer so the question is who do we replace Blair and Bonner with?

Bruno what are your thoughts on Oleksandry Lypouy?

[Thomas82]

I would like to see us get Rudy Gobert if at all possible.

[AFBlue]

I would like to see us get Rudy Gobert if at all possible.

He's one of a few project bigs that are intriguing in this year's draft, but unfortunately almost all of them will be off the board well before the Spurs pick. And unlike previous years, there really seems to be no ability for the Spurs to leverage a trade from their current roster to move up.

[elemento]

I like Jackie Carmichael (6'9 PF from Illinois State) for the late 1st round pick.

He is athletic, good defender, great rebounder and fluid in the post (high and low-post). He is a complete player that could help SA from day 1.

[Richie]

I think with the emergence of players like McGee, Jordan, Hibbert, Ibaka etc..., we should be looking for a long, athletic 7 footer even if that aren't all that talented offensively. None of those guys were lottery picks, and if needs be perhaps we can trade up a few picks to grab one

[racm]

A pogo stick big man would be nice, particularly if they can hit an open midrange jumper.

[Biggems]

Now that we have Baynes with a multi-year deal, that makes Blair and probably Bonner expendable. As much as I want to keep Neal, he is expendable too....though, offensively, I trust Neal so much more than Green. However, Green's youth and defense give him the edge. So Perhaps we can trade Blair, Bonner, and Neal for a player and/or draft picks. I still want to add at least one more 2nd rounder....adding two would be very nice. We could draft another player to stash away overseas. Even with the addition of Baynes, I want to draft Dieng, Muscala, and Ennis. With Blair, Bonner, and Neal gone, we bring back Jax for 1 or 2 more years.

C - Splitter, Baynes, Dieng
PF - Duncan, Diaw, Muscala
SF - Leonard, Jax, Ennis
SG - Green, Manu, de Colo
PG - Parker, Mills, Joseph

[BackHome]

Well things are starting to heat up as far as trades and what our team is going to look like next year. Looking at the draft a lot depends on what we are going to do with the following players.

1.Splitter is going to get a good contract from someone so how much do we want to keep him?
2.SJ. is going to want a contract and if he goes then we need a SF
3. Blair is gone

So with all that up in the air I would look at trying to get a second round pick from a trade and my wish list would be.

C-Dieng - 1st
PF- Cesar Lima Peru - 2nd
SF- Oleksandry Lypouy - 2nd

I also think that Hanga comes over and makes this team this summer as a SG.
"An amazing performance from FCM guard/forward Adam Hangawas not enough for Manresa to beat Valencia for the Spanish ACB. The Hungarian international - drafted from San Antonio in 2011 draft - was sensational finishing the match with 23 points, 2 rebounds, 4 steals and 29 ranking, but Valencia scored a last second buzzer to win 87-86. Hanga is enjoying a great season so far, averaging 10 points, 3.8 rebounds and 1.9 assists in Europe's most competitive league."FCM

[AFBlue]

As a Baylor alum I feel obliged to pimp the two legitimate "big" prospects from the Bears; Isaiah Austin and Cory Jefferson.

Austin is the more exciting of the two because of his size/skill combination. A legit 7ft and still growing, the biggest differentiator from other bigs is his ability to step outside and hit a jumper...out to the 3pt line. He's painfully skinny, so he may never be a post presence on either end. But, he's a young, super-athletic seven footer with a mid-range game. Of course he's probably not going to last beyond the lottery for those very same reasons, so ending up on the Spurs isn't very likely.

The "other guy", Cory Jefferson, was pretty much an unknown before the season. He spent much of the past two seasons on the bench behind higher-touted prospects like Quincy Miller, Quincy Acy and Perry Jones. With those guys now in the NBA, Cory is finally getting court time to prove himself. He's responding with very efficient scoring (over 60% from the field) and proving to be a valuable paint-protector (over 2bpg). There's not much on his profile, but he appears to be a good athlete with adequate size for a PF. I haven't watched him enough this season to know if he has any sort of midrange game, so that would be the big question mark. He looks like he should be available in the late first where the Spurs are slated.

I'd be happy if the Spurs picked either, though it would depend on what they gave up to get Austin.

[ABC]

The "other guy", Cory Jefferson, was pretty much an unknown before the season. He spent much of the past two seasons on the bench behind higher-touted prospects like Quincy Miller, Quincy Acy and Perry Jones. With those guys now in the NBA, Cory is finally getting court time to prove himself. He's responding with very efficient scoring (over 60% from the field) and proving to be a valuable paint-protector (over 2bpg). There's not much on his profile, but he appears to be a good athlete with adequate size for a PF. I haven't watched him enough this season to know if he has any sort of midrange game, so that would be the big question mark. He looks like he should be available in the late first where the Spurs are slated.

DraftExpress has Jefferson going in the second round of the 2014 draft. It looks like he maybe red-shirted? Unless he declares, maybe the Bears will get him back for another year :)

[Biggems]

every mock I see has Austin as a lottery pick or just outside it......we are going to be around the last 5 or 6 picks of the 1st round and no one wants the assets we are trying to give away in order to move up.

[BackHome]

This draft has some good players but not a lot of star players so I think we can still get a good player late in the first round.

[AFBlue]

DraftExpress has Jefferson going in the second round of the 2014 draft. It looks like he maybe red-shirted? Unless he declares, maybe the Bears will get him back for another year :)

They're just not "on him" like ESPN is at the moment. And it's not surprising because this is a breakout year for him. He has a good physical profile, solid athleticism and production. The Bears play Kansas tonight, so I'll be interested to see both him and Austin.

[ABC]

They're just not "on him" like ESPN is at the moment. And it's not surprising because this is a breakout year for him. He has a good physical profile, solid athleticism and production. The Bears play Kansas tonight, so I'll be interested to see both him and Austin.

Understood. His numbers look really good and the spurs could definitely use a new PF prospect with how Blair looks. Hope he can shoot.

[raybies]

1.gorgui dieng
2.Victor oladipo
3.Phil pressy

[Biggems]

1.gorgui dieng
2.Victor oladipo
3.Phil pressy

give me your take on Victor Oladipo....I will look into him, but I want your full assessment on him.

[raybies]

give me your take on Victor Oladipo....I will look into him, but I want your full assessment on him.


Good size for a shooting guard, good defender, finishes and impressive growth rate. Hustles...

What really caught my eye was his effort...

[CGD]

Don't really start following college ball until march, so I have no sense as to the quality of players out there. Even less so with the international players. is this generally considered to be a weak draft?

[BackHome]

Not a weak draft just no super star type of players but a lot of good players.

[jesterbobman]

I thought this may interest some here.

http://shutupandjam.net/draft-rankings/

Draft rankings, sorted by predicted career +/- impact using a combination of RAPM and SPM.

Rankings will get better with time(More data, and Author notes it works better with measurements, which are not yet available)

[pad300]

Hey, if we are posting links

http://hoopsanalyst.com/blog/?p=965

Hoops analyst is an interesting perspective

[BackHome]

Now that we have Baynes do you think we will not take a big in the first round and what positions would you take?....Yes understanding the best player on your board etc..

[stnick2261]

We have so many guards, including Hanga who looks promising. Even with Baynes, we'll have to replace Jackson, Duncan, Diaw, Bonner and Blair sooner than any other positions. This is a good draft for Bigs. I would focus on SF, PF or C.

If Bertans (SF) is progressing, I'd like to draft Gorgui Dieng, 6' 11" C with 7' 6" wingspan who focuses on defense (and blocks and rebounds well) and runs the pick n roll well... from draft express: "Dieng is at his best offensively in the pick-and-roll game, where his great size and excellent mobility often allow him to get open with a head of steam going to the basket. He finishes with authority and is continually improving here, something that will certainly be attractive projecting to the highly pick-and-roll oriented NBA." He should be able to play next to Baynes for a bigman rotation of Splitter, Baynes, Dieng once Duncan retires.

[stnick2261]

If we could draft Dieng, and bring in Joe Ingles (SF), I think that hits our main needs

[99 Problems]

We have so many guards, including Hanga who looks promising. Even with Baynes, we'll have to replace Jackson, Duncan, Diaw, Bonner and Blair sooner than any other positions. This is a good draft for Bigs. I would focus on SF, PF or C.

If Bertans (SF) is progressing, I'd like to draft Gorgui Dieng, 6' 11" C with 7' 6" wingspan who focuses on defense (and blocks and rebounds well) and runs the pick n roll well... from draft express: "Dieng is at his best offensively in the pick-and-roll game, where his great size and excellent mobility often allow him to get open with a head of steam going to the basket. He finishes with authority and is continually improving here, something that will certainly be attractive projecting to the highly pick-and-roll oriented NBA." He should be able to play next to Baynes for a bigman rotation of Splitter, Baynes, Dieng once Duncan retires.


Hoopsworld have Dieng going 28 in latest mock. In the small sample I've seen he looked very good. If Louisville get it together he could go much higher.

[bthewigwam]

Bleacher Report just did a mock and has Withey falling all the way to us, I was shocked. Not because they had him on the Spurs but that they think he'll last that long. I'm no draft pundit or even a die hard college fan, but there's no way he lasts that long, is there?

[stnick2261]

this isn't a draft with a few superstars and then nothing else, this is a draft with a lot of good players close to each other in value which can easily lead to someone being taken early or falling a lot.

[stnick2261]

Draftexpress has Withey and Dieng going 27 and 28 respectively

[Richie]

No chance Dieng is on the board when we draft. After we've seen players like Hibbert, Jordan, Ibaka etc... turn in to very useful players, big athletic shot blockers will be going much higher even if they aren't the most skilled players.

[BackHome]

A lot of bigs in this draft plus he is broke his wrist so that might make him drop a few.

[Biggems]

my 3 guys are having very good years.....Dieng, Muscala, and Ennis.

[Chinook]

All of the sudden, it doesn't seem so unrealistic that the Spurs would get the Clippers' second-rounder next season.

[bluebellmaniac]

All of the sudden, it doesn't seem so unrealistic that the Spurs would get the Clippers' second-rounder next season.

??? What do you mean?

[Chinook]

??? What do you mean?

They owe the Spurs their second-rounder if they finish with a top-five record in 2014. That deal was made more than two years ago, when the Clippers were in contention for the first-overall selection. At the time, it seemed like a throwaway deal just so the Theo Ratliff salary dump would be legal according to the CBA. Now, it might actually net something.

[sinok]

Wasn't Theo Ratliff sent to the Bobcats for a 2016 second round pick?

[Chinook]

Wasn't Theo Ratliff sent to the Bobcats for a 2016 second round pick?

Sorry, you're right. The Clipper's pick come via New Orleans from the Curtis Jerrels trade. That pick is 2014, though.

The Ratliff pick is in 2016 with the same protection but for Charlotte, so let's hope the Bobcats get good by then.

[DesignatedT]

Victor Oladipo might be my favorite prospect in the entire draft. Along with Marcus Smart.

[jesterbobman]

Feb 7 Wages of Wins draft Preview: http://wagesofwins.com/2013/02/07/head-of-the-class-ranking-the-2012-13-ncaa-prospects/

Over the last few years, the guys the Spurs have picked have been close to the top of the available players in the Wages of wins draft model.

Going through, the top 100 players(By DX) who are comfortably outperforming their rank based on WP ranking are

Oladipo(Likely out of our draft range)
Kelly Olynyk(Possibly out of our range)
Mike Muscala(Projected as being #30 pick, so somewhat likely to be available)
Arsalan Kazemi(2nd round option)
Reggie Bullock(projected 51 DX)
Cory Jefferson(2nd)
Trevor Mbakwe(2nd)
Richard Howell(2nd)
Doug McDermott(2nd)
Kyle Anderson (2nd)
PJ Hairston (2nd)

I don't watch College Basketball(35 second shot clock is icky) but that is one starting list of domestic spurs options, Given they apparently have some ability from a scouting perspective and one of the Stats systems that seems to approximate past decision making likes them.

[stnick2261]

Gorgui Dieng didn't show up on that guy's list so I ran his numbers... 10.98 WS40 would rank him #12. We may have to trade up a few spots to get him, but he'd be worth it IMO (I'd hate to see him drafted 1 spot above us like Batum)

[Biggems]

im sticking with my 3 guys

F/C Gorgui Dieng
F/C Mike Muscala
G/F James Ennis

[Cklbmk]

Gorgui Dieng Looked great in the youtube videos

[DrunkTXLabrat]

andre roberson on espn right now against stanford. san antonio high school grad. defensively skilled 3/4. can rebound.

[DesignatedT]

im sticking with my 3 guys

F/C Gorgui Dieng
F/C Mike Muscala
G/F James Ennis

I don't know much about Ennis but Dieng and Muscala are solid realistic options. They are pretty much opposite types of bigs but both do what they do well.

[Strategic]

I think Marcus Smart will declare. No inside info on the kid but watched him play some games and he looks like a sure NBA type point guard.

[BackHome]

I have this terrible feeling that the Spurs first round pick will be a PG..

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I have this terrible feeling that the Spurs first round pick will be a PG..

i hope not. i think it depends on mills player option. maybe on the euro developement of denmon too.

[Biggems]

I don't know much about Ennis but Dieng and Muscala are solid realistic options. They are pretty much opposite types of bigs but both do what they do well.

Ennis is a 6'7 or 6'8 SF who seems like a very good under the radar prospect. If you go look up his stats, they are quite solid, and he has played very well against some of the better programs in college.

[BackHome]

Well with Tony out I bet Ding will be around when our turn to draft comes up.

[bluebellmaniac]

Well with Tony out I bet Ding will be around when our turn to draft comes up.
I don't get the connection between Tony and Dieng... Are you suggesting we will lose a lot and get a higher pick?

[BackHome]

Yes, not having Tony will cost us a few games so I don't think we loose a lot we just won't have the best record in the NBA. So our draft pick will probably be in the 26-28 range and not 30.

[Richie]

Well with Tony out I bet Ding will be around when our turn to draft comes up.

No chance. Dieng will be a mid round 1st.

[BackHome]

Well Draft Express and Draft Net still have him going late first round still stranger things have happened. Add to the fact that even if he is available do the Spurs draft him or will they draft a SF or dare I say PG?

[FireMicoHalili]

Spurs have to take either

Rudy Gobert
Jordan Aboudou
Clint Capela

all are French. They'd benefit playing for the Spurs. Everyone except Gobert played with Denmon btw

i like Gobert's height! Hoping he can turn into a Hibbert

[BackHome]

No
No
No

[Libri]

NBADraft Net has Kentavious Caldwell-Pope from Georgia for the Spurs. I don't see him listed as a draft prospect in the Think Tank. Maybe he hasn't made himself eligible.

[ace3g]

Basketball (http://sulia.com/channel/basketball)
Ric Bucher (http://sulia.com/ricbucher/)
+ Trust International basketball source says we should anticipate the stream of NBA-caliber talent coming from overseas to
dip in coming years because the economy has shrunk the pool of talent foreign clubs are capable of supporting. The biggest clubs -- the Real Madrids and Barcelonas and CSKA Moscows -- will continue to find and work with the best of the best, but the price of training and developing young players and the dwindling number of companies with discretionary funds to serve as sponsors is thinning the herd.

[Chinook]

^Maybe we'll see more international players go to college in the States now. They may see it as a better investment than taking a low-level contract and never getting better.

[Bruno]

311099569847009281
311099769550426112

[raybies]

I'm starting to like Ryan Kelley ... from duke

[td4mvp2k]

I'm starting to like Ryan Kelley ... from duke

Im liking Jr Cory Jefferson of Baylor who would have him goin late in the 2nd but dont know if he comes out tho... Would be great in S&B!

[exstatic]

Willie Cauley UK, FTW.

[CGD]

Interested to see what the spurs do this draft. Draft for best available, raw talent, or need with the 28-30 pick? A back up 3 or a project/raw 4 would be nice. I see the spurs sticking with Cojo as the backup PG, Hanga and DeColo providing depth at the 2 (regardless of what Manu does this summer), and sticking with a TD/Splitter/Diaw/Baynes big line up.

[outmap]

I'm starting to like Ryan Kelley ... from duke

Muscala and Kelly?
Do you think they can potentially be the next Vucevic and Ryan Anderson?

[elemento]

Jackie Carmichael from Illinois State is still my favorite. Underrated prospect.

[BackHome]

Yeah I like Carmicheal too just so many different ways we can go in this draft.

[stéphane]

Oh come on Bruno, there's not a Mam Jaiteh Topic on the front page of the section?

[Bruno]

Oh come on Bruno, there's not a Mam Jaiteh Topic on the front page of the section?

There is one:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210280

:)

[stéphane]

You like him? I saw live he's quite something. A bit raw, but dang what an upside!

[Bruno]

You like him? I saw live he's quite something. A bit raw, but dang what an upside!

Huge fan, I like him more than Gobert. If he doesn't rise too much in the draft, I'm all for Spurs guaranteeing him their first round pick to him.

[raybies]

Muscala and Kelly?
Do you think they can potentially be the next Vucevic and Ryan Anderson?

Haven't really seen muscala play but Ryan is a clutchsl shooting big man that coach k says is very intelligent. Sounds like spurs material.
Spurs needs after this year are going to be a stretch four if they amnesty Bonner, back up three, and a backup center.

[jyra]

316548875794128897

This is one stacked World Team. Wiggins, Hezonja and Exum are projected to be picked very high in 2014. Apart from Jaiteh I would think that the Spurs will take a closer look at Karasev (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Sergey-Karasev-6118/). He is a versatile SF who could be a useful backup behind Kawhi and projected to be picked late in the first round.

[Bruno]

Nice roster.

Jaiteh, Schröder, Karasev, Jean-Charles and Ivanovic are the ones that can enter in the 2013 draft.

Jaiteh and Karasev are the most known but Schröder is a player to keep an eye on.

[jyra]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Nike-Hoop-Summit-International-Roster-Breakdown-4113


Should Giannis Adetokunbo (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Giannis-Adetokunbo-7223/) be able to acquire a US visa in time to arrive in Portland, he could very well be the 11th member of the Nike Hoop Summit international team, sources close to the process have informed us. Adetokunbo has been drawing NBA General Managers to Athens in droves since we traveled out to scout and report on him last month, which resulted in the following article (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/NBA-Draft-Prospect-of-the-Week-Giannis-Adetokunbo-4090/).

[TheCerebral1]

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Nike-Hoop-Summit-International-Roster-Breakdown-4113

Thanks for the share!

[Mel_13]

DraftExpress - 2013 NBA Draft Early Entry List:

http://www.draftexpress.com/2013-NBA-Draft-Early-Entry-List.php

[playblair]

Kiwi Steven Adams declares for NBA draft


Kiwi basketballer Steven Adams is heading to the NBA.
The University of Pittsburgh freshman released a statement today saying that after weighing up his options, he believed it was in his best interest to declare for the draft.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/basketball/8503912/Kiwi-Steven-Adams-declares-for-NBA-draft


Adams, a 7-foot, 250-pounder from Rotorua, New Zealand, has the raw attributes that NBA scouts love. He’s very athletic for such a big person, he’s not afraid of working to get better and he displays nice touch around the basket.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-04-02/pitt-roster-trey-zeigler-transfer-steven-adams-nba-draft-tray-woodall-jamie-dixo?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[benefactor]

Adetokunbo or Jaiteh would be fine with me in the first.

[BackHome]

We got enough guys overseas we need guys who can make the team and play this year.

[exstatic]

We got enough guys overseas we need guys who can make the team and play this year.

That player doesn't exist where we are picking.

[bluebellmaniac]

Adetokunbo or Jaiteh would be fine with me in the first.

Keeping our fingers crossed....

[benefactor]

That player doesn't exist where we are picking.
:tu

Just look at DX's mock. 4 of the last 7 picks in the first round are international. That pretty indicative of what's available domestically talent-wise late in the first.

[Bruno]

A silver lining of Spurs recent losses (they have dropped 4 of their last 5 games) is that they might end with a worst record than OKC and, so, be able to pick their player before them at the end of the first round. Given that Presti has deep Spurs roots, it might be good to pick before him because both FOs might be looking at the same prospects.

Worst case would be Spurs and Thunder ending with the same record: Thunder would get HCA because they have the tie-breaker and the draft order would be determined by a coin flip.

[ace3g]

By the way, is it still possible for the Thunder to get that top 10 draft pick, because of the pick they got from the Raptors?

http://newsok.com/the-no.-1-reason-for-thunder-fans-to-root-against-the-raptors/article/3726106

[Bruno]

By the way, is it still possible for the Thunder to get that top 10 draft pick, because of the pick they got from the Raptors?

http://newsok.com/the-no.-1-reason-for-thunder-fans-to-root-against-the-raptors/article/3726106

Unless Raptors end up in the top 3 during the lottery, OKC will get their pick that should be between #8 and #12. Odds of Raptors getting a top 3 picks in the lottery are below 5%, so it's likely OKC will get that pick.

Realgm has a great page with all the details about picks traded and the protection on them:
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

[CGD]

^ yikes, OKC with a massive asset right there! I completely lose track of what trades lead to the spurs landing those likely inconsequential 2nd round picks.

[exstatic]

Picks that could be in play, numbers are for today's date:

#20 ATL - A secondary first rounder for a Hawks team that needs to get worse before they get appreciably better.
#21 UTH - Another secondary first rounder for a team that may not want the guaranteed contract.
#26 MIN - Minnesota's secondary first round pick, acquired from Memphis. They already have a lottery pick around #10.

[Bruno]

Spurs pick are set, they get #28 and #58.

As said before, picking before Presti is nice. Teams that will pick just before Spurs are the Clippers, the Wolves(pick coming from the Grizzlies), the Nuggets.

[objective]

Bruno

Here's another name for the index, didn't see him listed.

Norvel Pelle.

Yahoo article on him. (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/norvel-pelle-remains-mystery-nba-teams-turning-pro-172046878--ncaab.html)

Maybe just a worthless hype article, but allegedly spoken of as a 2nd rounder with a chance for end-of-1st. Seems like the Toros would be perfect for someone with his background.

[jyra]

Some impressions from the Hoop Summit World team practice:

http://euroleagueadventures.com/nike-hoop-summit-world-team-introductions/

(http://euroleagueadventures.com/nike-hoop-summit-world-team-introductions/)Part 2 with a couple more details:

http://euroleagueadventures.com/nike-hoop-summit-practice-notes-position-battles-and-interviews/

[Bruno]

Tie breakers have been drawn:
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/22105917/nba-draft-ties-broken-for-draft-order-selection

Spurs weren't tied with another team but with have now the precise order of teams that will pick before them:
22. Brooklyn Nets
23. Indiana Pacers
24. New York Knicks
25. LA Clippers
26. Memphis Grizzlies
27. Denver Nuggets
28. San Antonio Spurs

It's also noteworthy how "bad" will be the pick from Toronto that OKC will received from the Harden trade. This pick and Jeremy Lamb were the two main assets OKC got for downgrading from Harden to Martin. Lamb truly sucked in his rookie year and the pick will likely be only #12 in a draft that is said to be weak. LOL Presti.

[SenorSpur]

Given the fact that the Thunder are picking @ #12 (Toronto's pick), I sincerely hope that some team takes Victor Oladipo before OKC has a chance to. Probably the most complete player in the draft. Explosive, athletic 2-guard, who is a demon on defense. No Spurs fan should want to see this guy on the Thunder roster.

[yavozerb]

Given the fact that the Thunder are picking @ #12 (Toronto's pick), I sincerely hope that some team takes Victor Oladipo before OKC has a chance to. Probably the most complete player in the draft. Explosive, athletic 2-guard, who is a demon on defense. No Spurs fan should want to see this guy on the Thunder roster.

Oladipo should go in top 7.

[CGD]

What would the Spurs have to do to acquire a higher pick? Could they buy a pick with their capspace?

I just don't know what the spurs would do in free agency besides sure up the bench. Player like Casspi, wright, Marion come to kind. With the current system, I don't see an alteration to the starting five, which is pretty solid. Instead I can see the spurs swinging for a project big in this draft to groom for the post TD era.

[SenorSpur]

Oladipo should go in top 7.

Agree and that's what I'm hoping.

[exstatic]

What would the Spurs have to do to acquire a higher pick? Could they buy a pick with their capspace?

I just don't know what the spurs would do in free agency besides sure up the bench. Player like Casspi, wright, Marion come to kind. With the current system, I don't see an alteration to the starting five, which is pretty solid. Instead I can see the spurs swinging for a project big in this draft to groom for the post TD era.

Of the four teams that have two first round picks (ATL, UTH, CLE, PHO), and might want to off load the later one, only Phoenix doesn't have a clean cap sheet, and their second pick is #30. The other three have done a good job of either avoiding or offloading bad contracts, the usual baggage to go with a pick in a trade. Having no real liquid assets ourselves, it's unlikely we can move up. It would take Bertans or Hanga or both, and I'm not sure the Spurs want to start the stash and develop cycle over again with a new pick.

[CGD]

Looks tough to move up since teams really dont have the dinancial incentive. The only piece that we could use to pull a George Hill would probably be Tiago, but that isn't happening. Here's hoping there is enough big an depth late into the first round.

[ace3g]

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) 24s (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/327153258688823298) The @nba (https://twitter.com/NBA) announced today that the 2013 NBA Draft will be held at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn on June 27th at 7 p.m.

[DesignatedT]

Given the fact that the Thunder are picking @ #12 (Toronto's pick), I sincerely hope that some team takes Victor Oladipo before OKC has a chance to. Probably the most complete player in the draft. Explosive, athletic 2-guard, who is a demon on defense. No Spurs fan should want to see this guy on the Thunder roster.

No way he drops that far. I think we will see him go top 3-5 once the combine and workouts start up.

[DesignatedT]

Pretty big list still but realistic prospects (somewhat) at the 28th spot that are intriguing in some way to me in no particular order are:

Gorgui Dieng
Giannis Adetokunbo
Sergey Karasev
Dennis Schroeder
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Lorenzo Brown
Mam Jaiteh
Erick Green

[Captivus]

Pretty big list still but realistic prospects (somewhat) at the 28th spot that are intriguing in some way to me in no particular order are:

Gorgui Dieng
Giannis Adetokunbo
Sergey Karasev
Dennis Schroeder
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
Lorenzo Brown
Mam Jaiteh
Erick Green

I like that guy.

[exstatic]

I like that guy.

DX has him at 25. nbadn has him at 11.

[BackHome]

I wonder how much better he will be then Livio-Jean? Both international players who are the same height and the same age and both players are just know getting noticed.

As far as a big what are your thoughts on Joel Embid a 6'11 center he is young only 19 but he seem to have a lot of upside. I know his back was hurting a little at the Nike Summit but watching all the drills he looks like he could be good.

[exstatic]

I wonder how much better he will be then Livio-Jean? Both international players who are the same height and the same age and both players are just know getting noticed.


Livio-Jean is a 6'8" rail thin PF with no perimeter skills who will struggle to make it in the NBA. Adetokunbo is a 6'9" multi-skilled player who could probably be anything from a 2 to a 4. Size and weight comparisons don't tell any of the tale.

[BackHome]

So what do you think of Joel Embid?

[bluebellmaniac]

I don't think we take a SF this draft. Bertans seems to be developing nicely and if he comes over next year, then we are set. If not, then I think we sign a rental until the following year when he would surely join the team.

We are set at PG as well. CoJo is growing before our eyes. Even if he plays at a plateaued level, I think we have our depth chart at PG with TP, CoJo and either NDC or Mills. Mills could opt out and that would actually simplify our PG order.

The late season addition of Baynes reduced the need for a big and seeing him man handle D12 gives hope for him having an active role next year. He slides into Blairs slot, with a nice upgrade at the position. Of course if there is an obvious steal of a big at #28 we take him. But given the choice between a project big and a really good SG, I think our need is SG and we draft that position.

We need to plan for post-Manu and even for the inevitable weeks of injured Manu. This could be a good year to grab a good SG and get them indoctrinated into the system. Unless we draft a Kawhi style player at the 2, whoever we draft won't see much in the way of playing time until year 2 or 3. Most likely as Manu retires. I see us letting Neal walk.

So there it is, I'm calling our draft pick as a SG with the 2nd rounder being a stashed development big.

[Bruno]

^ IMO, Spurs needing a SG really depends on how they view De Colo and to a lesser extent Joseph.

If Spurs believes that De Colo will likely end up as a good NBA player, they will give him more than the third string PG slot behind Parker and Joseph. He will get most of his minutes at SG.
For Joseph, he is big enough to play some SG alongside Parker and, if Spurs believes he can be more than a 15mpg backup PG, they will plan to play him some SG.

[pad300]

^ IMO, Spurs needing a SG really depends on how they view De Colo and to a lesser extent Joseph.

If Spurs believes that De Colo will likely end up as a good NBA player, they will give him more than the third string PG slot behind Parker and Joseph. He will get most of his minutes at SG.
For Joseph, he is big enough to play some SG alongside Parker and, if Spurs believes he can be more than a 15mpg backup PG, they will plan to play him some SG.

Not to mention they might have some faith in Danny Green...
Seriously. Historically, the Spurs schemes have focused on a simplified, inter-changeable position structure: 1 pg, 2 Wings, 2 Bigs (compared to the traditional defined 5 role: PG, SG, SF, PF, C). Typically, one of those Wing players is a creative type, and one a focused defender (and 3pt shooter). Given Kawhi's demonstrated potential, it would be foolish to box him into the 3 and D spot, so he's the creative type. The other wing spot would historically be a 3 and D guy, which is right up Green's alley. Not to mention that Danny's a pretty solid all-around player - he gets a decent number of assists and rebounds as well.

[BackHome]

For SG I like Lorenzo Brown 6'4 NC and Jamal Franklin 6'5 San Diego St.
For Big Man I like Mike Muscula 6'11
For International Pick I would throw out Jean Charles-France - Nike Summit he dominated for what its worth.(Replace Neal with Hanga and Blair with Bertrans)

[bluebellmaniac]

We are going to be incredibly tight on roster spots for the next 2 seasons. If the FO doesn't see one of their top guys available when we pick, I wouldn't be surprised if they drop down to a higher risk-higher reward draft and stash player type rather than tie up a roster spot for a couple years with a blah pick.

[CGD]

^ If they drop out if the first that has to mean that Bertans or/and Hamga are being signed I would think.

[bluebellmaniac]

^ If they drop out if the first that has to mean that Bertans or/and Hamga are being signed I would think.

True. How would they trade out picks? Just swap a 2nd + cash for their 1st?

[CGD]

True. How would they trade out picks? Just swap a 2nd + cash for their 1st?

Yeah I'm not sure how that would look -- maybe trade for a future first? I do like the accelerated draft and stash trend that is emerging out of the front office. It started with Nando and hopefully now with Bertans. Spurs are several years away from being terrible where they are able to get all-star level first round talent, so this formula will have to do until then. I'm all for them continuing it this draft, including trading down the 1st. Of course I wouldn't scoff if they were able to flip Neal and the pick for a higher position...

[Bruno]

The official early entry list was released yesterday:
http://www.nba.com/2013/news/05/01/2013-draft-early-entry-candidates-official-release/

As always, if you want a thread about a specific draft prospect that hasn't one, just let me know.

[jyra]

One guy that piqued my interest is Janis Timma.
I happened to see him play in a couple of games at the U19 World Championship because he was on the same team as Bertans. He is a solidly build 6-7 SF with decent athleticism and good rebounding instincts. His shooting was inconsistent (like the rest of the team, i.e. Bertans shot 27% from 3 in the whole tournament) but he showed that he can hit from three point range. FWIW recently he was also named MVP of the Baltic Basketball League finals.

He is definitely a secound round candidate with a lower ceiling than a guy like Karasev but he fits the need for a backup SF and would most likely be available at the end of the second round.

[bluebellmaniac]

This GSW series reaffirms my belief that we'll draft a SG with our first round pick. We need to look at someone who can be a defensive specialist, a shut down guy. Offensive ability would be second. Kawhi is a great defender, but we need someone who can naturally match up with a 1 or 2 without leaving a mismatch elsewhere.

[Captivus]

This GSW series reaffirms my belief that we'll draft a SG with our first round pick. We need to look at someone who can be a defensive specialist, a shut down guy. Offensive ability would be second. Kawhi is a great defender, but we need someone who can naturally match up with a 1 or 2 without leaving a mismatch elsewhere.

Im starting to agree with the SG thing...specially because Neal and Mills are too short.
Watching Klay shoot, get rebounds, post, dunk...maybe a new SG is what we need.

The urgency, IMO, is higher than the urgency for another position.

[Seventyniner]

This GSW series reaffirms my belief that we'll draft a SG with our first round pick. We need to look at someone who can be a defensive specialist, a shut down guy. Offensive ability would be second. Kawhi is a great defender, but we need someone who can naturally match up with a 1 or 2 without leaving a mismatch elsewhere.

You just described Danny Green to a T. How could someone the Spurs can draft at #28 be better than Danny is now?

[objective]

You just described Danny Green to a T. How could someone the Spurs can draft at #28 be better than Danny is now?

Jimmy Butler and Chandler Parsons are two wings who were picked after 28. Butler especially is light years ahead of Green on defense.

It's possible.

[BackHome]

Yeah I was pissed when we passed on Parsons I thought he would be good but not as good as he is playing now.

[bluebellmaniac]

You just described Danny Green to a T. How could someone the Spurs can draft at #28 be better than Danny is now?

Yes, that did describe him in game 3. It was good of him to finally show up. We could use him in games 4 and 5 as well. Keep your fingers crossed we get the same Danny Green these next two games.

Danny's NBA career was about over when we picked him up and developed him into what he is now. He was something like a 46th pick in the draft (and not our pick). One would think we could pick someone in the first round who could develop into an even better player than Green. If Danny can maintain his level of play, then we could focus on a SG with more of a scoring focus to balance the second team's scoring. If he can't limit Curry in this series, then we need to look at drafting a defensive stopper at the SG position in this draft.

[BackHome]

For a first round player I want someone who can handle the ball other then Manu and Tony no player can create there own shot with ease. I want someone who can break his man down and take it to the whole and finish and someone who has a decent mid to long range shot. It is a lot easier to teach defense then it is to teach offense.

[CGD]

We have excellent role/system players at the SG/SF, but are going to be lacking a creator post Manu. Not sure what to expect from Kawhi. Those type of players aren't cheap, and usually not available at 28. Tyrke, with all the turmoil in Sactown, seem ripe for the picking even though he's a RFA. Belleneli may also be available though his weakness on the defensive end are problematic.

Side note, I thought it was interesting that the spurs worked out Thompson during the draft they took Kawhi. Would've been something if spurs landed him.

[Bruno]

BTW, I won't list this year the players that have worked out for Spurs by doing google/twitter search on that.

If another poster want to do it, he is welcome to do it. I can sticky a thread he created with a list of the players worked out if he wants it.

[TheCerebral1]

What about a guy with untapped potential like Goodwin of Kentucky at 28. Not exactly the ideal Spurs archetype, but the talent is all there.

[ace3g]

Snell and Rice getting some praise on 1st day of NBA Draft Combine

[Captivus]

Some info from Day 1 Draft Combine.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1641752-nba-combine-2013-results-day-1-measurements-highlights-and-top-prospects

Rudy Gobert: 7-1 1/2 WITHOUT shoes.

[Bruno]

I'm usually all for draft the best player available but not really this year. Spurs should really be careful if they go after a perimeter player with their first round pick because there might not have available minutes to develop him:
- At PG, Joseph is turning into a damn solid backup PG and with Parker still relatively young, there might not have an opening for years.
- At SG, some minutes might be available behind Green with Ginobili being old and injury prone. I've said "might" because it will depend on what are Spurs plan with Neal and De Colo.
- At SF, Spurs have find their starter for the next decade or so with Kawhi and he will play a lot of the available minutes. A draftee player might be Kahwi's backup but Spurs could go with a free agent like Casspi and/or sign the promising Bertans.

In the paint and especially at the PF slot, Spurs have considerably less depth/talent.

[BackHome]

Well based on fan feedback we can hope that Neal and Blair are both gone so that gives us two slots to fill. Then we have two guys we have to decide if we sign them and for how much. Looking at Splitter it would be easy to say he is not worth it but he has gotten better and it is very hard to find good smart centers in this league "But he is fragile". As far as Manu he is looking his age but he has a little left in his gas tank but I would not pay more then five mill for this used car.

I am happy to be eating crow about CoJo the guy is now our official backup PG so De Colo better be getting ready to play SG a lot more this upcoming season. I am really interested to see if we decide to sign any of our foreign draft picks play this summer ..Bertrans, Hanga, and Richards. I like Casspi but he is a young player and will want to be a starter and get playing time so I don't see us able to sign him.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I'm usually all for draft the best player available but not really this year. Spurs should really be careful if they go after a perimeter player with their first round pick because there might not have available minutes to develop him:
- At PG, Joseph is turning into a damn solid backup PG and with Parker still relatively young, there might not have an opening for years.
- At SG, some minutes might be available behind Green with Ginobili being old and injury prone. I've said "might" because it will depend on what are Spurs plan with Neal and De Colo.
- At SF, Spurs have find their starter for the next decade or so with Kawhi and he will play a lot of the available minutes. A draftee player might be Kahwi's backup but Spurs could go with a free agent like Casspi and/or sign the promising Bertans.

In the paint and especially at the PF slot, Spurs have considerably less depth/talent.

The trouble is that from what I see from previous drafts, it seems to be extremely difficult to get a decent frontcourt player in the later segments of the draft.

I think if Spurs are going to want to augment their frontcourt, their best strategy would have to be to draft and stash an overseas player with potential yet again.

[Captivus]

I think the possibility of finding a backup big guy are smaller than finding a backup SG or SF.
How many good big guys have been drafted so late in the 1st or in the 2nd round?
At the end, the Spurs will have to choose between players like Adams, Nogueira, Jaiteh or go to the SG position.
If I had to guess I think the Spurs will probably like to take a player like Dario Saric, Livio Jean Charles, Giannis (?). Those are big guys that can do others things.
I would prefer to get a big guy via trade, lower the risk.
You know what!? Lets get Otto Porter!

[DesignatedT]

Spurs need to sign a big via FA and draft a sg/sf in the draft IMO.

Neal should not be resigned and the Spurs should see if anyone around the league in interested in De Colo. Maybe they could try to use him to try and move up in the draft if they like somebody enough.

[BackHome]

You know I think CoJo development really surprised the Spurs organization cause I don't think they would have brought De Colo if CoJo was playing close to the way he is playing now. I guess he can be insurance for PG and SG but he is not going to get a lot of minutes so maybe he agrees to be traded if possible.

Signing big in the FA cost mucho $$$$

[Bruno]

The trouble is that from what I see from previous drafts, it seems to be extremely difficult to get a decent frontcourt player in the later segments of the draft.

The kind of bigmen that isn't rarely drafted with high draft picks and soemtimes turns out good are undersized (6'9") PFs without crazy athleticism. Players like Carl Landry, David Lee, Paul Millsap, Glenn Davis, Brandon Bass are example of that. From looking a this year players, Jackie Carmichael could be that guy.

[Bruno]

And I'm not saying Spurs shouldn't draft a SG/SF.

It's just that behind Leonard, Green and Kawhi, they have a lot of options (Neal, De Colo) or potential options (Bertans, Casspi). If Spurs don't like these options, it would make a lot of sense to draft a wing. If Spurs do like these options, a SG/SF drafted would be caught in a logjam. He will never play, which would have allowed him to develop his game, and he will end as a wasted pick.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The kind of bigmen that isn't rarely drafted with high draft picks and soemtimes turns out good are undersized (6'9") PFs without crazy athleticism. Players like Carl Landry, David Lee, Paul Millsap, Glenn Davis, Brandon Bass are example of that. From looking a this year players, Jackie Carmichael could be that guy.

Of the names that you quote, apart from Millsap, and to some extent Davis, the rest of the lot are a severely defense-deficient, undersized and limited bunch of players. The Spurs themselves own another of the lot, picked at the 37th pick - Dejuan Blair, who they tried hard to develop with all his deficiencies, but has come up short of their expectations (relatively as he has still been a value pick at 37).

I think that is why the Spurs will think hard at trying to get an undersized PF again. I don't know about Carmichael. But if he is 6'8'' or lesser and is defensively deficient, he would soon be redundant on the Spurs. If on the other hand, there was a hypothetical Europe/ Latin America/ Australia based big man who was 6'9'' + and provided defensive potential, the Spurs could draft him and stash him for a while as he learns his mores a la Splitter/ Mahinmi.

[Spursfanfromafar]

And I'm not saying Spurs shouldn't draft a SG/SF.

It's just that behind Leonard, Green and Kawhi, they have a lot of options (Neal, De Colo) or potential options (Bertans, Casspi). If Spurs don't like these options, it would make a lot of sense to draft a wing. If Spurs do like these options, a SG/SF drafted would be caught in a logjam. He will never play, which would have allowed him to develop his game, and he will end as a wasted pick.

I do agree with you on this. I think the guard-small forward positions are quite intact for the Spurs. At SF -they should look for a vet SF backup for Kawhi; at SG, they have to develop Nando (Neal is most likely gone after this year) as a backup to both Green & Ginobili and at PG, Joseph is coming along quite well while Nando/Ginobili can play PG at a pinch. It is the Bonner/Blair duo that the Spurs would want to immediately replace, plus plan for a Splitter-pairing as Duncan eventually retires over time.

[ABC]

Based on several different threads, there seems to be some confusion about who can and who cannot be traded on draft night. My understanding is this:

Can be traded on draft night: Parker, Duncan, Bonner, Green, Leonard, De Colo, Joseph, Baynes, and players whose rights the Spurs hold

Cannot be traded on draft night: Ginobili, Splitter, Diaw, Mills, Blair, Neal, McGrady

I'm not positive about Diaw and Mills with their player options. Is the above accurate?

[Chinook]

Based on several different threads, there seems to be some confusion about who can and who cannot be traded on draft night. My understanding is this:

Can be traded on draft night: Parker, Duncan, Bonner, Green, Leonard, DeColo, Joseph, Baynes, and players whose rights the Spurs hold

Cannot be traded on draft night: Ginobili, Splitter, Diaw, Mills, Blair, Neal, McGrady

I'm not positive about Diaw and Mills with their player options. Is the above accurate?

Yes you have that right. Because Diaw and Mills can become free agents in July, they cannot be traded on draft night. I think as we get closer to the draft, I'll look into seeing which players are reasonable targets to get in trades. Some favorites like Derrick Williams (for me) are no more difficult to obtain.

EDIT: Duncan has a no-trade clause. So he can't be traded without his consent.

[Chinook]

You know, I'd like to see a third round added to the draft where teams could pick players to put on a d-league roster. The players would be paid an average of the rookie minimum and a d-league deal, but in return they would get at least a year guaranteed. The picks would be untradeable, so every team would be forced to have at least one player in which they have something invested in the d-league. It would be nice to see teams take greater responsibility in developing prospects.

[ABC]

Thanks :toast

[Captivus]

Why doesn't someone make a pool just to see what kind of player the forum want including things like:
- PG, Combo Guard, SG, Blocker, 3Pt shooter, Rebounder, Scorer, Big guy, defensive, Best available...others.

[TheCerebral1]

The kind of bigmen that isn't rarely drafted with high draft picks and soemtimes turns out good are undersized (6'9") PFs without crazy athleticism. Players like Carl Landry, David Lee, Paul Millsap, Glenn Davis, Brandon Bass are example of that. From looking a this year players, Jackie Carmichael could be that guy.

Carmichael seems like a guy in the second round slot to give as a shot. Finding size is always the problem so late in the draft. With Dieng shooting up draft boards, it's harder to see someone 6'10" to 7'0" being there unless you want someone unathletic like Jeff Withey (boring..)

[ace3g]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sgHxO4y81Q

[Bruno]

Because Diaw and Mills can become free agents in July, they cannot be traded on draft night.

That's half true. They can't be traded in June if they haven't picked their option but once they picked it, they can be traded.

It can be relevant for Mills. While he might want/wish for more playing time, he might pick up his option because he won't make as much money on the free agent market. An arrangement that would suit both side would be Mills picking his option before the draft night and Spurs trying to trade him during the draft to a team where he could get more playing time.

[Richie]

Carmichael seems like a guy in the second round slot to give as a shot. Finding size is always the problem so late in the draft. With Dieng shooting up draft boards, it's harder to see someone 6'10" to 7'0" being there unless you want someone unathletic like Jeff Withey (boring..)

Spurs don't really need guys who can jump out of the gym. If we pick a big, defensively he just needs to be able to defend the pick and roll, otherwise he'd never be able to play with Timmy. A shot blocker would be nice, but pick and roll defence is more important.

Withey is actually very athletic, averaging 3.9bpg, you're just assuming he can't jump because he's white. Funnily enough it's his lateral quickness which is possibly an issue, which is why he'd be a pass from me if that's the case.

[ace3g]

Chad Ford @chadfordinsider
(http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider)Hearing from multiple sources that Mavs likely to trade the No. 13 pick. Want to save cap space for Dwight Howard run ...

[Chinook]

Chad Ford @chadfordinsider
(http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider)Hearing from multiple sources that Mavs likely to trade the No. 13 pick. Want to save cap space for Dwight Howard run ...




That'd be a poor decision on their part. They could just give it to Lakers in July if worst comes to worst. It could be a good piece to get someone else.

[Bruno]

With the lottery made, mock drafts are now considering team needs. Both Ford and DX have Spurs picking Nogueira.

To have a better idea on who Spurs could pick, it will be crucial to see what international prospect will stay in this draft after the June 17th deadline. 7/8 underclassmen international prospects (Gobert, Schröder, Karasev, Saric, Nogueira, Adetokunbo, Jaiteh and maybe Jean-Charles) will have an impact on Spurs pick by either being picked before #28 and by being options at #28.

[pad300]

Chad Ford @chadfordinsider
(http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider)Hearing from multiple sources that Mavs likely to trade the No. 13 pick. Want to save cap space for Dwight Howard run ...




Would love it if we offered our 2014 pick and cash... Could be another Kawhi deal.

[Bruno]

If Mavs are looking to open cap space, a trade like Bonner+future first round pick for Carter+Cunningham+#13 could work.

Saying that, Spurs might want to keep their cap space to go after free agents and they might not want to create more cap space to Dallas, a team that is said to be interested in Splitter.

[Mal]

If Mavs are looking to open cap space, a trade like Bonner+future first round pick for Carter+Cunningham+#13 could work.

Saying that, Spurs might want to keep their cap space to go after free agents and they might not want to create more cap space to Dallas, a team that is said to be interested in Splitter.

I believe that Pierce`s contract is the biggest with TO/partially guaranteed, but I really cant see it happening.

Bruno, how we count Dallas cap space ? Amnestied players are counted to it salary space, but arent counted into tax, am I right ? Then, when they waive Bonner with partially guaranteed deal, his salary is totaly not counted ? How much money they could throw to Howard after that deal ?

But I do believe there will be a team, like Bobcats or Magic, willing to take Marion and picks for 2nd round unguaranteed

[ABC]

Bruno, how we count Dallas cap space ? Amnestied players are counted to it salary space, but arent counted into tax, am I right ? Then, when they waive Bonner with partially guaranteed deal, his salary is totaly not counted ? How much money they could throw to Howard after that deal ?

I know you asked Bruno, but... players can only be amnestied by the teams that signed them in the first place. If the Spurs were to amnesty Bonner, they would have to pay him his full salary, but it wouldn't count for cap or tax calculations. If they were to trade him to Dallas, Dallas could waive him and only have to pay him the 1 million guaranteed portion of his salary, which would count toward the cap. The Spurs could waive or amnesty Bonner, whichever they prefer.

I assume Dallas could offer Howard a max contract (otherwise they wouldn't be in the running for him).

[Bruno]

Bruno, how we count Dallas cap space ? Amnestied players are counted to it salary space, but arent counted into tax, am I right ? Then, when they waive Bonner with partially guaranteed deal, his salary is totaly not counted ? How much money they could throw to Howard after that deal ?

But I do believe there will be a team, like Bobcats or Magic, willing to take Marion and picks for 2nd round unguaranteed

I don't see at all a rebuilding team being interested in paying $9.3M for a 35 ears old Marion. they would have very little reasons to do so.

Dallas salary situation should be the following:
Dirk: $22.7M
Marion: $9.3M
Carter: $3.2M
Cunningham: $1.2M
Crowder: $0.8M
#13: $1.7M
6 cap hold: $2.9M

Total: $41.8M

They will have $18.2M available with a $60M salary cap and $20.2M with a $62M salary cap. The max salary for Howard is $20.5M.

The trade I suggested would create $3.6M in additional cap space for Dallas.

And I would be absolutely shocked to see Howard going to Dallas. Lakers, Rockets or Hawks seems to be way better destinations for him.

[Mal]

I know you asked Bruno, but... players can only be amnestied by the teams that signed them in the first place. If the Spurs were to amnesty Bonner, they would have to pay him his full salary, but it wouldn't count for cap or tax calculations. If they were to trade him to Dallas, Dallas could waive him and only have to pay him the 1 million guaranteed portion of his salary, which would count toward the cap. The Spurs could waive or amnesty Bonner, whichever they prefer.

I assume Dallas could offer Howard a max contract (otherwise they wouldn't be in the running for him).

Dallas amnestied Haywood, so that`s why I was asking about amnestied players.
Bruno Warriors paid 11mil for #30pick. 9,3M for #13 and Marion is very good player to tank for next draft.

[Bruno]

Bruno Warriors paid 11mil for #30pick. 9,3M for #13 and Marion is very good player to tank for next draft.

Salary dumping a player in June for a trade exception has been usually more difficult/expensive than trading a player for another one with a shorter contract at the trade deadline.
For example, in 2010, Miami traded Cook + #18 for #32. Cook had only $2.2M/1 year left on his contract.

And I misunderstood what you were saying, I thought that you weren't including #13 with Marion. #13 + Marion for a trade exception might work but it's far from a given.

[pad300]

Salary dumping a player in June for a trade exception has been usually more difficult/expensive than trading a player for another one with a shorter contract at the trade deadline.
For example, in 2010, Miami traded Cook + #18 for #32. Cook had only $2.2M/1 year left on his contract.

And I misunderstood what you were saying, I thought that you weren't including #13 with Marion. #13 + Marion for a trade exception might work but it's far from a given.

Heck, assuming we had Splitter resigned, as the Spurs, we could take that deal - #13 and Marion for a 2nd - and I would do it.
It would be a pre-arranged deal on draft night. SAS and DAL would have to arrive at a #13 they both like. In the post-draft, before FA period, SAS resigns Manu and Tiago and buy out Bonner for $1 Million. They then use their remaining cap space to take on Marion and #13...

Duncan Tiago Diaw Baynes
Kawhi, Marion
Green, Manu, De Colo
Parker, CoJo
+
#13, #29
+
?Mills?, ?Bertrans?, mini MLE big man?

Looks pretty decent to me, depending on who the mini-MLE big is. Given Marion will expire next year, it would put the organization in a good place to extend Kawhi.

[Mal]

Atlanta is my first choise. They will have a lot of cap space, which they could be unable to spend on good players, so they could take a bait and even do sign and trade with Dallas for Josh Smith. And #13 pick should help doing it. Then Marion could be traded in February as 9,3 mil expiring, when teams will be clearing their salaries.

With 13,17, 18, 47, 50 picks they wont draft all-starts, but that`s great way to start building deep team. With one of their 1st round picks they could secure some euro prospect for future e.g. Dennis Schroeder ( who is black :lmao, and I have no idea what kind of player he is) or Russian dude Sergey Karasev.

[Bruno]

Heck, assuming we had Splitter resigned, as the Spurs, we could take that deal - #13 and Marion for a 2nd - and I would do it.

I likely wouldn't.
i have little to no interest in Marion (old + bad shooter) and, from what I've seen/read, players available at #13 aren't that intriguing. Spurs should do a trade like that if they think there is someone special at #13. otherwise, their best bet is likely to go after free agents.

[Richie]

I likely wouldn't.
i have little to no interest in Marion (old + bad shooter) and, from what I've seen/read, players available at #13 aren't that intriguing. Spurs should do a trade like that if they think there is someone special at #13. otherwise, their best bet is likely to go after free agents.

Obviously it would depend on there being someone the Spurs really like at 13, but I somewhat disagree. There's every chance we wouldn't get a player as good as Matrix in free agency.

Edit: In fact, I would be quite happy just to take Marion for a trade exception if we get the offer in the summer. Wouldn't be my first choice, I'd rather grab someone like West, but if he's on the table we could do a lot worse with our cap space.

[Chinook]

So Cleveland is talking about trading the first-overall pick (presumably for a super star). Looking at the 29 teams, I can't see a legitimate trade out there. Gallinari is one option; DeMarcus Cousins (lol if they go for that) may be another. LaMarcus Aldridge? Zach Randolph? Their teams shopped both of them this season.

Does anyone think it's even remotely likely that Cleveland makes a deal for a vet using the number-one pick?

[jesterbobman]

I can't see a fit. I think they're committed to Kyrie, Dion and Thompson, so they have spots at Centre and Small Forward. It only makes sense to trade with a rebuilding team with a really good player at one of those spots who is young enough to grow with the core.

Nene is probably too old to make sense.

Charlotte doesn't have anyone, Gortat isn't good enough, NO aren't trading Davis.

Cousins might make the most sense, but I wouldn't if I were Cleveland. 4 years on a rookie deal vs 1 is a big difference.

Monroe maybe, but I don't know if Pistons would do it.

Pekovic might make sense, but they could go after him in free agency, and I think the Wolves want to win, and Blazers probably keep Aldridge and try to win by upgrading their bench.

If I were the Cavs, I'd take Porter, then try to get Pekovic/Splitter at Centre.

[Richie]

So Cleveland is talking about trading the first-overall pick (presumably for a super star). Looking at the 29 teams, I can't see a legitimate trade out there. Gallinari is one option; DeMarcus Cousins (lol if they go for that) may be another. LaMarcus Aldridge? Zach Randolph? Their teams shopped both of them this season.

Does anyone think it's even remotely likely that Cleveland makes a deal for a vet using the number-one pick?

I dont think they will, but Granger should be on the table

[Chinook]

I dont think they will, but Granger should be on the table

Would you trade the first-overall pick for Granger? I wouldn't. 19 probably. I might even be willing to add 31, but not the 1.

[Richie]

Would you trade the first-overall pick for Granger? I wouldn't. 19 probably. I might even be willing to add 31, but not the 1.

In a strong draft I wouldn't, but there is no stand out great player in the draft. To be honest I didn't realise Granger was 30, so he's probably too old. However if I was considering a player like Gallinari, I don't see why I wouldn't consider Granger. I'd also take Granger ahead of a cancer like Cousins.

The reality is that the Pacers desperately need a point guard so they should use Granger to trade for one. Personally I've been thinking a Granger for Bledsoe trade as I can't think of a better point guard thats available.

[Richie]

If I were the Cavs, I'd take Porter, then try to get Pekovic/Splitter at Centre.

If they're taking Porter, they might as well trade down in the draft. Something like #3 + Singleton (or anyone except Wall/Beal) for #1

[Chinook]

In a strong draft I wouldn't, but there is no stand out great player in the draft. To be honest I didn't realise Granger was 30, so he's probably too old. However if I was considering a player like Gallinari, I don't see why I wouldn't consider Granger. I'd also take Granger ahead of a cancer like Cousins.

The reality is that the Pacers desperately need a point guard so they should use Granger to trade for one. Personally I've been thinking a Granger for Bledsoe trade as I can't think of a better point guard thats available.

I think Gallo has a few things going for him that Granger doesn't: Age (24) versatility (both forward spots without giving up size or quickness), upside (a couple of years as the first option already under his belt) and a long-term deal. If Denver were willing to trade him, which they might to grab an elite two-guard prospect, he'd be my first choice.

I agree on Cousins, and I sure think 1 is too much for him, but I don't underestimate Gilbert's stupidity there. I just think getting Gallinari and a good center (like Asik if Houston signs Howard) could put Cleveland into contention with Indiana as soon as next season.

[100%duncan]

NBA.com's mock draft showed the Spurs picking Deshaun Thomas.

[exstatic]

NBA.com's mock draft showed the Spurs picking Deshaun Thomas.

That's GOT to be a joke. :lol How would they call him to let him know?

[100%duncan]

That's GOT to be a joke. :lol How would they call him to let him know?

Agreed :lol

[DrunkTXLabrat]

So Cleveland is talking about trading the first-overall pick (presumably for a super star). Looking at the 29 teams, I can't see a legitimate trade out there. Gallinari is one option; DeMarcus Cousins (lol if they go for that) may be another. LaMarcus Aldridge? Zach Randolph? Their teams shopped both of them this season.

Does anyone think it's even remotely likely that Cleveland makes a deal for a vet using the number-one pick?

i actually do. and i think it would be wise. if it's for a sf like batum. maybe #1 & #19 for batum and #10?

imagine the cavs depth chart. then add batum, oden, and carter-williams. that's some scary depth!

[DrunkTXLabrat]

If they're taking Porter, they might as well trade down in the draft. Something like #3 + Singleton (or anyone except Wall/Beal) for #1

i think your right. the magic have to targeting burke. the wiz, tough call, but either porter, bennett, or noel. i'd let the wiz make the tough call, have the more expensive pick, and have to give up something for it.

if the cavs want sf, firstly i think batum and #10 are the best target. if not that, then trade down and take cheaper, equally promising bennett, muhammad, oladipo, or mclemore. + whatever the wiz are willing to give up.

[Chinook]

i actually do. and i think it would be wise. if it's for a sf like batum. maybe #1 & #19 for batum and #10?

imagine the cavs depth chart. then add batum, oden, and carter-williams. that's some scary depth!

Not that bad of an idea, since Batum has similar upside to Gallinari. I'd prefer Gallo, but Portland may be very willing to move Batum with their other small-forward prospects. Even though I'd consider it overpaying by Cleveland, I don't think it'd be a bad deal for either side.

[jesterbobman]

Saw this on RealGM, but Al Horford might be a target, depending on what the Hawks hear through unofficial channels on Dwight and CP3. Josh Smith is apparently friends with Dwight, and you'd have to imagine CP3 might be intrigued by those 2 plus a top lottery pick(Should look at around #1) and shooters(Jenkins) and a more competent Management than the Sterling/Vinny group he's had. Atlanta would have to hear they could pull that off to make the trade, but it makes sense if they could bring those 2 in. They could then get Porter/Oladipo as a role playing wing.(Don't need #1 pick to get them, but Cleveland fits)

[Captivus]

Apparently Clevelando may be looking to trade his 1st pick, something that I think could be a good idea for them.
Rumor is Dallas also want to trade his 4th pick for cap space, shame, I wanted them to pick Schroder, the more I see about that guy the more like him.
The Spurs should try to move up.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

if the cavs offered #1 for kawhi straight up... should the spurs take it?

[Chinook]

if the cavs offered #1 for kawhi straight up... should the spurs take it?

I thought about it. I don't know the draft well enough to have an idea about the prospects, but I think the Spurs should (and would) stick with Leonard. I'm one of those people who doesn't think Kawhi will be a star, but neither will the first-overall in many years. Sticking with the known commodity is the best choice now and in the future.

[Seventyniner]

Zach Lowe seems to think that the Wizards are willing to move the #3 pick for vets too. They evidently think they're a playoff team next season if healthy.

The Spurs don't have the assets to interest the Wizards, but with the Cavs talk I just thought I'd put that in the conversation.

[Chinook]

Zach Lowe seems to think that the Wizards are willing to move the #3 pick for vets too. They evidently think they're a playoff team next season if healthy.

The Spurs don't have the assets to interest the Wizards, but with the Cavs talk I just thought I'd put that in the conversation.

Actually, I'm not sure about the Wizards. Last time they traded a top-five pick, they didn't get a good haul at all. They wanted Ginobili (for his expiring) and tried to include Gilbert Arenas in the deal, but they ended up accepting Randy Foye and Mike Miller. Maybe they're willing to take a package around Green and Diaw (if he picks up his option) for it.

Even not considering that, it seems to suggest some of their young non-star players may be on the market. The Spurs may be able to get Vesely or Singleton for Bonner or even just a trade exception.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

The Spurs should stay put w/ their draft status until draft night. This is a weak class up top (not a lot of elite potential) but fairly solid in the above average to average department. In particular, I like Reggie Bullock (SF) from NC for his 3 pt shooting and defense (NBA Comparison is Danny Green) and Grant Jerrett (PF) from AZ who compares to a Matt Bonner who can play defense. Bullock is projected as the 30th best prospect and Grant Jerrett is the 58th - both possibilities for the Spurs.

[Raven]

If they're taking Porter, they might as well trade down in the draft. Something like #3 + Singleton (or anyone except Wall/Beal) for #1

the problem is the wizz would take Porter too..

[pad300]

The Spurs should stay put w/ their draft status until draft night. This is a weak class up top (not a lot of elite potential) but fairly solid in the above average to average department. In particular, I like Reggie Bullock (SF) from NC for his 3 pt shooting and defense (NBA Comparison is Danny Green) and Grant Jerrett (PF) from AZ who compares to a Matt Bonner who can play defense. Bullock is projected as the 30th best prospect and Grant Jerrett is the 58th - both possibilities for the Spurs.

Please, for gods sake, if we are talking about a Matt Bonner replacement, take Ryan Kelly (Duke) before Grant Jerrett... but let's not replace Matt Bonner with another 1D shooter. Instead, take Tony Mitchell with the 28th if possible.

Regarding Bullock, if you project a guy as Danny Green, you don't draft him. You can get 3 and D talent from the D-league - as Danny himself illustrates. Use the draft to go for serious talent - either undervalued NCAA players (Kawhi, Cojo, George Hill), or foreigners who will develop overseas (eg Bertans, Tiago).

[Captivus]

Bonner's contract plus 1 player (Neal-Mills-NDC) should be enough to go up in the draft.
If Dallas is trading their pick, I would try get that, although I think they would rather trade for other picks to get more cap space now.
In fact, if the Spurs already know that they will renew contracts (Neal, Mills or NDC) next season, they should try to trade them for anything they can. Maybe even picks for next year.

[Chinook]

Bonner's contract plus 1 player (Neal-Mills-NDC) should be enough to go up in the draft.

Not again, man.

Also, Bonner may be enough to move up a bit, but I sort of doubt adding another player will help. The point of getting Bonner is to save some money, so it wouldn't make sense to add a million or so in salary by taking on Mills or De Colo.

[Richie]

What the hell are you guys taking? Bonner + Neal enough to move up in the draft? Why do people think so many teams are willing to give up assets for our trash?

Would you trade our pick for Steve Blake? Rashard Lewis? Hasheem Thabeet? No, so why do you think other teams would want a player like Bonner?

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I thought about it. I don't know the draft well enough to have an idea about the prospects, but I think the Spurs should (and would) stick with Leonard. I'm one of those people who doesn't think Kawhi will be a star, but neither will the first-overall in many years. Sticking with the known commodity is the best choice now and in the future.

i agree. although i am one that thinks kawhi will blossom into a star. i think he's doing it this year in the playoffs. what's more, he's doing it with a bad knee.

[bluebellmaniac]

What the hell are you guys taking? Bonner + Neal enough to move up in the draft? Why do people think so many teams are willing to give up assets for our trash?

Would you trade our pick for Steve Blake? Rashard Lewis? Hasheem Thabeet? No, so why do you think other teams would want a player like Bonner?
LOL! It's the 'Our trash smells sweet' syndrome! Bonner's $1M buyout is supposed to look super lucrative, but his whole salary is only what, $3 to $3.4M. It's not a huge win for a team, even assuming that we take trash back.

[Captivus]

Not again, man.
Also, Bonner may be enough to move up a bit, but I sort of doubt adding another player will help. The point of getting Bonner is to save some money, so it wouldn't make sense to add a million or so in salary by taking on Mills or De Colo.

:lol
As soon as I saw that you had replied my comment I thought: Oh shit! What the hell did I post wrong??
I know, I know...I just wanted to add players..that's all.
Isn't Bonner in the same situation as NDC? The team takes $5mm with both players. Or is there a difference between those 2 contracts? Its just $1mm more.

[Captivus]

Not again, man.

Also, Bonner may be enough to move up a bit, but I sort of doubt adding another player will help. The point of getting Bonner is to save some money, so it wouldn't make sense to add a million or so in salary by taking on Mills or De Colo.

The buy out clause!! thats the reason! you are right...again!

[Chinook]

:lol
As soon as I saw that you had replied my comment I thought: Oh shit! What the hell did I post wrong??
I know, I know...I just wanted to add players..that's all.
Isn't Bonner in the same situation as NDC? The team takes $5mm with both players. Or is there a difference between those 2 contracts? Its just $1mm more.


The buy out clause!! thats the reason! you are right...again!

I was referring to you thinking Neal is tradeable during the draft.

As Bruno pointed out to me, Diaw and Mills can be traded during draft night if they pick up their options. So they could be fair game. Bonner is fair game no matter what (and his partially guaranteed deal makes him one of the most likely players to be traded), and Neal and every other expiring contract is untradeable. I believe ABC posted a list of tradeable players earlier in this thread. After adding Diaw and Mills as possible trades, that list is a good guideline to use for draft scenarios.

[Chinook]

What the hell are you guys taking? Bonner + Neal enough to move up in the draft? Why do people think so many teams are willing to give up assets for our trash?

Would you trade our pick for Steve Blake? Rashard Lewis? Hasheem Thabeet? No, so why do you think other teams would want a player like Bonner?

Cap relief is going to be important this summer. Bonner can potentially save a team $3.8 Million in salary. That's definitely the price of a 20s pick in June. Packaging that savings with another first would theoretically be worth a high-20s pick, if not more. But the logic sort of fails there, as teams who are looking to save money aren't going to want a low-first (one of the least-valuable picks in the whole draft), nor will they want a player like De Colo or Mills. Those two may be enough to move up a spot or two on their own, though.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

Please, for gods sake, if we are talking about a Matt Bonner replacement, take Ryan Kelly (Duke) before Grant Jerrett... but let's not replace Matt Bonner with another 1D shooter. Instead, take Tony Mitchell with the 28th if possible.

Regarding Bullock, if you project a guy as Danny Green, you don't draft him. You can get 3 and D talent from the D-league - as Danny himself illustrates. Use the draft to go for serious talent - either undervalued NCAA players (Kawhi, Cojo, George Hill), or foreigners who will develop overseas (eg Bertans, Tiago).

I can understand your sentiments but the Spurs have to draft somebody...Grant Jerrett is a better defender than Kelly and Bullock is the same as Danny Green but at the SF position. He's a role player who's excellent at perimeter defense and 3 pt shooting. Think of a better/younger version of Bruce Bowen.

[pad300]

I can understand your sentiments but the Spurs have to draft somebody...Grant Jerrett is a better defender than Kelly and Bullock is the same as Danny Green but at the SF position. He's a role player who's excellent at perimeter defense and 3 pt shooting. Think of a better/younger version of Bruce Bowen.
I'm not at all sure that Jerret is a better defender than Kelly -

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/74441/duke-misses-ryan-kellys-defense-most .
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8830027/ryan-kelly-duke-blue-devils-indefinitely-right-foot-injury Note the sidebar opponents shooting 22% against Kelly, 3ed in the country in points allowed per play
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21978038/ryan-kelly-is-dukes-defensive-quarterback-against-louisville

IIRC the only games Duke lost this year, all happened when Kelly was out.
http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/02/26/duke-can-win-it-all-with-ryan-kelly/

Meanwhile DX says this about Jerret's defence:

On the defensive end of the floor, Jerrett lacks the lateral quickness to stay in front of skilled big men. Additionally, while he hedges hard guarding the pick and roll, he often struggles to get back into position. That being said, in both instances, he uses his length to stay involved, trailing the play, and is often able to contest the shot from behind once his man takes the ball to the hoop.

He blocked 2.1 shots per 40 minutes pace adjusted, as well, a testament to his length and instincts. In the post, Jerrett shows a solid feel on this end, and puts a good effort in as well. His high center of gravity and lack of lower body strength make it difficult for him to hold his position against bigger offensive players at this stage , but there are some things to work with here long term. Ultimately, Jerrett is a willing defender, inside and out, though his physical limitations and lack of toughness present some question mark as to whether he can guard NBA-level power forwards.

Arguably his worst quality on either end of the floor, however, is well below average rebounding, where he grabs just 7.9 rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted. This ranks him as the second worst rebounder among power forwards in this draft or centers in our top-100 and, unlike Ryan Kelly, he spends quite a bit of time in the low post on the defensive end of the floor. Looking towards the NBA, this is arguably the one thing that he most needs to improve on, focusing on boxing out and beating his man to the errant shots, and showing greater intensity and desire to make his presence felt on this end of the floor.
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2UGADK9YJ
http://www.draftexpress.com


With regards to Bullock, there is simply not a chance in Hell he can hold Bruce Bowen's jockstrap defensively. He is also not a need: we have a quality SF - Kawhi. You are proposing drafting a low trade value role-player, in the least valuable of the positions (Big > PG > Wing), where we have no need, and we can't be confident that he's even the best player available...

[ABC]

I believe ABC (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=31112) posted a list of tradeable players earlier in this thread.

I brought it forward and made Bruno's and Chinook's corrections:

Can be traded on draft night: Parker, Duncan (can reject trade with no trade clause), Bonner, Green, Leonard, De Colo, Joseph, Baynes, and players whose rights the Spurs hold

Can be traded on draft night if they pick up their player option before the draft: Diaw, Mills

Cannot be traded on draft night: Ginobili, Splitter, Blair, Neal, McGrady

[TheCerebral1]

See why would Washington trade up. Porter who fits their needs is a better player than Nerlens Noel is. In fact, I believe Bennett, Oladipo, McLemore, Burke are all better players than he is. Noel has bust written all over him. Take into consideration that he weighed in at a laughable 206 lbs at the combine and he's not even a dominant rebounder. He has Kwame Brown written all over him. May be a nice kid, but come on.

[jesterbobman]

From APBR


What combine stats did you find have a positive correlation to success?


When I was including them alongside the boxscore statistics, no step vertical and standing reach were the only predictors worth including.

Now that I tried applying combine stats post-hoc for the newer data (including it in a regression along with the predictions posted in the parent post such that -- [Observed Wins ~ Predicted Wins + No step vert + Standing reach] I found some interesting things:

1) Standing reach is now a negative. What that tells me is that while standing reach is obviously important to playing basketball, if you can't use it to record rebounds/blocks/points... in college, you won't figure out how to use it in the pros and some of the stats you got just by being bigger than anyone else will be tougher to come by.
2) No step vert is still informative, but the effect was really weak until I included an interaction term between predicted wins and no step vert. Basically, if you don't look like a good prospect based on the box score stats it doesn't matter how high you can jump. However, as your expected production increases, being able to jump out the building becomes an increasingly important predictor of your ceiling.

So, there is some value in combine stats for prediction, but mostly they don't effect anything. So being a freak athlete doesn't matter for DJ Stephens, but it does for Noel(assuming as he didn't test)/Zeller.

[TheCerebral1]

I'm all about Nogueira, Tim Hardaway Jr. (love his game), C.J. Leslie, Dario Saric (if he falls), Jamal Franklin, Deshaun Thomas and others.

[Captivus]

If I'm Cleveland I'm trading the 1st pick. The problem I think is finding a team that really wants him and is willing to trade.
This can only be done with either the Magic, Wizards, Bobcats and maybe the Suns, so that Cleveland can get a good pick in return a player.
Dont know what players these team have that can be of value for Cleveland.

[BackHome]

I'm all about Nogueira, Tim Hardaway Jr. (love his game), C.J. Leslie, Dario Saric (if he falls), Jamal Franklin, Deshaun Thomas and others.

You can add to that list; Giannis Adetokunbo, Archie Goodwin, Sergey Karsev, and Mike Muscall..DE/DN

I guess from the Spurs point of view is any of these players better then Neal, and Blair? Also are they better then our foreign draft picks..Bertrans, Hanga, Ryan?

[Ditty]

1.Giannis Adetokunbo
2. Archie Goodwin
3. Lucas Nogueira

in order have probably the best potential out of all the players that could be at 28.

[intlspurshk]

I hope SPURS draft Goodwin or Franklin to fill the SG gap and fill the backup SF by signing players like Nocinoi. Spurs needs an athletic SG with quick first step, long wingspan and being able to change speed to break down defense and draw fouls. SPURS probably could trade De Colo to trade up to get such player.

[FireMicoHalili]

wishlist: Lucas Nogueira, Sergey Karasev, Mam Jaiteh, Gorgui Dieng, Livio Jean-Charles, Dario Saric

I wouldn't take Kelly Olynyk even if he fell to 58

[Tyrone Jenkins]

In terms of who makes the most sense for the Spurs to pick up - one only need to look 3-5 years into the future and speculate about the identity of the team at that time.

Right now, the Spurs are, obviously, two teams: one w/ Parker on the floor, the other without him. W/ him, they're a a pick and roll/pop team where Tony creates off the dribble and either hits Tiago or Tim on the roll after the pick, hit one of the shooters (Kawhi, Green, etc.) on the perimeter or drive and either finish at the rim or hit a mid-range.

With him off the floor, the offense is primarily a ball movement offense that does contain some pick and roll. Ginobili (if he's in when Tony's out) is the new creator. If he's out, then whoever is on the floor is essentially running the standard play (baseline cut off the single or double screen) to get the best shot - usually a 3 - available.

Well, 3-5 years from now when Tony is 34-37 years old, he won't be able to create in the same fashion (mostly due to speed). He'll be smarter but slower - so the creation will most likely include more passing to shooters. Also, Kawhi should have emerged by then as a greater force in the league and could supplant Tony as the feature of the offense. Lastly, Timmy will be gone and there needs to be someone who can score more effectively than Tiago down low (perhaps a FA pickup of some sort).

[jesterbobman]

Again, from APBR stats board Draft projection thread (http://apbr.org/metrics/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8242******=15)

http://i.imgur.com/T3RaBIc.png

The methodology is on that thread, and will get constantly updated over the next month. The big takeaway for me is that Mike Muscala is probably a really good option at 28.

[3 Legged Dog]

Please, for gods sake, if we are talking about a Matt Bonner replacement, take Ryan Kelly (Duke) before Grant Jerrett... but let's not replace Matt Bonner with another 1D shooter. Instead, take Tony Mitchell with the 28th if possible.

Regarding Bullock, if you project a guy as Danny Green, you don't draft him. You can get 3 and D talent from the D-league - as Danny himself illustrates. Use the draft to go for serious talent - either undervalued NCAA players (Kawhi, Cojo, George Hill), or foreigners who will develop overseas (eg Bertans, Tiago).

I have been very impressed with Reggie Bullock. While Bullock and Green cab both play good D and both can shoot the 3, that's where the similarities end. Bullock is faster, stronger, an inch taller and is quite a bit meatier. And unlike Green, Bullock is a good ball handler and can score at spots on the floor that are not just behind the arc.

At 6'7" Bullock could even play some SF.

I do NOT project him as a "Danny Green" type. Rather, I project him as better than Danny at pretty much every turn.

[3 Legged Dog]

Meanwhile DX says this about Jerret's defence:


With regards to Bullock, there is simply not a chance in Hell he can hold Bruce Bowen's jockstrap defensively. He is also not a need: we have a quality SF - Kawhi. You are proposing drafting a low trade value role-player, in the least valuable of the positions (Big > PG > Wing), where we have no need, and we can't be confident that he's even the best player available...

1) at 21 years old Bruce Bowen wasn't a lock down/all NBA defender either.

2) Bullock is faster, stronger and better dribbler/penetrator than Danny Green. At only 1" taller than Green, why would you even begin to assume that he's a Small Forward? The fact is Green doesn't really have 2 guard skills (on offense).

3) since neither Green nor Leonard are great (or even adequate) or consistent at dribble penetration, and since Bullock appears to be qualified to do so....at both positions....., where is the downside?

[Chinook]

^Paranoid_Pop, is that you?

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

I like Muscala a lot too. Every advanced stat points to him being a very great college player and indicates that he would be an outstanding pro. I think the Spurs should take him even if Withey is still on the board.

[Tyrone Jenkins]

1) at 21 years old Bruce Bowen wasn't a lock down/all NBA defender either.

2) Bullock is faster, stronger and better dribbler/penetrator than Danny Green. At only 1" taller than Green, why would you even begin to assume that he's a Small Forward? The fact is Green doesn't really have 2 guard skills (on offense).

3) since neither Green nor Leonard are great (or even adequate) or consistent at dribble penetration, and since Bullock appears to be qualified to do so....at both positions....., where is the downside?

Bullock is the quintessential Spurs wing player. He may not be a lockdown defender at 21 but who is? He will be a welcome backup to Kawhi at the 3 and Green at the 2.

[BackHome]

Who knows what the Spurs are going to do in the first round but am starting to like Archie Goodwin/SG - I would though love for the Spurs to get a extra second round pick maybe trade De Colo and pick up Rodney Williams 6'7SF Minnesota and Augusto Lima 6'9 PF Brazil.

[TheCerebral1]

Lucas Nogueira, Mike Muscala, Tony Mitchell, Jamal Franklin, with guys like Archie Goodwin, Bullock, etc being looked at. Someone like Mitchell or Muscala depending on where they fall in the twenties could easily replace Blair. Franklin and Bullock to replace Neal I suppose. I really like Franklin/Mithcell/Nogueira.

[yavozerb]

Some recent opinions about Euro players Abrines, Todorovic, Nedovic, Jean Charles
http://www.thedreamshake.com/2013/5/29/4374518/draft-and-stash-snap-judgements-about-2nd-round-international

[DesignatedT]

Spurs have worked out Reggie Bullock, Tim Hardaway Jr and James Southerland so far.

[CGD]

Spurs have worked out Reggie Bullock, Tim Hardaway Jr and James Southerland so far.
Kind of telling... Each are SFs.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

southerland would be pretty good. long hands and good wingspan, good lane agility time. been playing well for a coach boehiem.

[naico]

Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI (https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI)1m (https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/340862017411891200)
Mavericks continuing to shop the No. 13 pick to preserve cap space for this summer. Several execs say they are not asking for much, either

[CGD]

Which is better:

Houston Trade - Bonner for Robinson + Houston's 2nd
Dallas Trade - Bonner + Decolo/Neal for Dallas's 13th + 2nd

[eDizzle20]

Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixSI (https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI)1m (https://twitter.com/ChrisMannixSI/status/340862017411891200)
Mavericks continuing to shop the No. 13 pick to preserve cap space for this summer. Several execs say they are not asking for much, either

Cuban would never make a trade with the Spurs

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Which is better:

Houston Trade - Bonner for Robinson + Houston's 2nd
Dallas Trade - Bonner + Decolo/Neal for Dallas's 13th + 2nd

id go for dallas 13. itd be awesome to have another player naned robinson. but 13# would be cheaper, maybe younger. maybe a tweener more able to guard wings?

[Stump]

Which is better:

Houston Trade - Bonner for Robinson + Houston's 2nd
Dallas Trade - Bonner + Decolo/Neal for Dallas's 13th + 2nd
Dallas is trying to accumulate cap space. I don't think they want players in return for the 13th pick.

[pad300]

Dallas is trying to accumulate cap space. I don't think they want players in return for the 13th pick.

Agreed, what you could see is something like this:

Spurs 2014 First for Dallas's #13.

A trade like this could happen if Dallas is desperate for cap space. It should also be noted that a lot of commentators think the 2014 draft will be much better than the 2013 draft.

[benefactor]

It should also be noted that a lot of commentators think the 2014 draft will be much better than the 2013 draft.
...which is why it won't happen.

[Bruno]

I guess Dallas will try to create a little more cap space than just dumping #13. They will try at least to dump Jared Cunningham with the pick because he has done nothing as a rookie. They might also try to add Vince Carter but it's not sure because he has had a productive season.

There is also Shawn Marion but it won't be easy because his salary is high. They could do a RJ with him and convince Marion to opt out in exchange of a multi-year contract with a lower salary.

[ABC]

Someone may have already posted this, but Bonner and Spurs 2014 first for Carter and #13? Clears a decent amount of space for Dallas. Not sure they'd deal with the Spurs. I also have no idea what kind of deals other teams would be willing to make with Dallas. It could be we're underestimating what Dallas can get in return.

[pad300]

Someone may have already posted this, but Bonner and Spurs 2014 first for Carter and #13? Clears a decent amount of space for Dallas. Not sure they'd deal with the Spurs. I also have no idea what kind of deals other teams would be willing to make with Dallas. It could be we're underestimating what Dallas can get in return.
I would do that if I was SAS. Carter's been solid for the Mavs. He could play 2 and 3 for us, no problem. Getting a #13 for what's probably a #25 or so is a pretty good deal...

[Stump]

I think it would have to be Carter + Cunningham + #13 for Spurs' 2014 1st rounder. If the Mavs are only including one of those two players, then another team with a better pick would outbid us.

[ABC]

I think it would have to be Carter + Cunningham + #13 for Spurs' 2014 1st rounder. If the Mavs are only including one of those two players, then another team with a better pick would outbid us.

Taking on Cunningham's salary doesn't seem like a big deal for the Spurs if they're not planning to sign a big free agent. If the Spurs were to keep Bonner next year, he'd cost 3,945,000. Carter and Cunningham together would cost 4,388,400. That's a pretty cheap way to move up in the draft if the Spurs see someone they like at #13. I still think the Mavericks will find something they like better.

[ABC]

^
Also, Bonner has to be included in the deal. On draft night trades still use 2012-2013 salaries. The Spurs are over the cap so the numbers have to line up.

[Chinook]

Taking on Cunningham's salary doesn't seem like a big deal for the Spurs if they're not planning to sign a big free agent. If the Spurs were to keep Bonner next year, he'd cost 3,945,000. Carter and Cunningham together would cost 4,388,400. That's a pretty cheap way to move up in the draft if the Spurs see someone they like at #13. I still think the Mavericks will find something they like better.

Yeah. I wonder about the Hawks, though. Can they really afford two mid-round picks cutting into their cap space? Not if they're really trying for two max deals.

[Stump]

^
Also, Bonner has to be included in the deal. On draft night trades still use 2012-2013 salaries. The Spurs are over the cap so the numbers have to line up.
I've never heard that before. Are you sure?

[Chinook]

I've never heard that before. Are you sure?

Yes. The league year begins in July. The draft uses previous salaries and the previous tax and cap rules. So the Spurs will still be considered to be near the tax, even though they'll have plenty of cap space in July. That will limit their ability to make draft-day trades.

[Captivus]

Yeah. I wonder about the Hawks, though. Can they really afford two mid-round picks cutting into their cap space? Not if they're really trying for two max deals.

I thought about that too and I find it strange that no one talks about Atlanta. If I had to guess, Atlanta will trade at least one of those picks. There are many teams that could trade their picks, this is god news for the Spurs.

[BackHome]

Plus we have connections with their GM Ferry and now with their head coach I think they have a level of trust with the Spurs. The questions is if we did a trade and received their draft pick what player would you want or what player would make the most impact on this team?

So if we did get their pick we would probably be looking at the following as far as value:

Rudy Gobert -C 7'2 238pds

Gorgui Dieng -C 6"11 230pds

Darco Saric - SF 6"10 223pds

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I think it would have to be Carter + Cunningham + #13 for Spurs' 2014 1st rounder. If the Mavs are only including one of those two players, then another team with a better pick would outbid us.

i actually like this deal. i think it spells a no option pick up for mills though. carter is still good, i wonder if a tmac and carter reunion would be in play? and it def turns that 28 into a for sure big. hell, maybe a texas 3 way for robinson.

[td4mvp2k]

a good prospect 4 Spurs in da 2nd rd Romero Osby - Oklahoma


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn78fFaU0YA

[Chinook]

So would anyone do a De Colo and Bonner (and potentially 28 and/or a future first) for Lou Williams and the 17th and 18th picks trade? That's about the amount of cap relief Atlanta would need to get back to a point where they can sign two max players.

I don't know if I would do it, as I like De Colo and I don't see what the Spurs would do with with two (or three) firsts. Also (and more importantly) I don't know where Williams would fit unless Ginobili moves over to the three full time. I'd be a great scoring punch off the bench, but he'd get way too much money to be the seventh or eight man.

[jesterbobman]

I think Lou Williams is/was a really useful player. He put up really solid PER numbers, his RAPM has been good(08/09 to 11/12 are -1.3, -.2, 0.4, 2.1 which is really solid), and getting a quality guard plus upgrading picks would be a good deal. I like Bonner as a player(Sure, he has weaknesses, but his shooting efficiency and refusal to turn the ball over are pretty helpful), but that 's a big haul for his non guaranteed deal. There are some fit issues with it forcing Manu to SF but if you could play the two together, they're both good enough passers for it to work.

I don't know how interested the Hawks would be pre-draft, unless they've heard through back channels that Dwight and CP3 are coming. If they know, worth doing, but it seems that if they picked players and were 2m short, they could dump Lou and draft rights fairly easily post draft, or negotiate with Chris and Dwight to give them 1 million less each so they could keep the picks and provide a better group of role players.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I think it's doubtful the Spurs like too many players from this draft so it would be a stretch to expect them to move up and even more of a stretch to get 2 additional first round picks. Maybe if they really like some draft and stash player like the croatian kid, who's got quite the upside, but if anything I'd expect the Spurs to trade down, so they wouldn't need to take on additional salary depending on their cap space and which FA they might be after. There are enough young players on the team and in the pipeline ( Bertans, Hanga ).

[CGD]

a good prospect 4 Spurs in da 2nd rd Romero Osby - Oklahoma


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn78fFaU0YA

Says all the right things at least.

[Bruno]

Some random players that have worked out for Spurs:
Ricky Ledo
Isaiah Canaan
Grant Jerrett
Durand Scott
Erik Murphy
Brandon Davies

[raybies]

Archie Goodwin with the first. Chip helps him with his shot. An emphasis on defense. Spurs system with the discipline and structure. And spurs culture for the intangibles. Archie has high potential and the fact he wants to be the best in class is encouraging. He has had problems with being coachable but what better example than Timmy.

I think at this point, the big 3 era is winding down and are going to need prospects with potential to accept a passing of the torch. We have Leonard, who is legitimate enough to be considered a viable option moving forward. Two to go.

That leaves us looking for a sg who can create and an efficient post presence. It remains to be seen if tiago can carry that kind of load.

Other players, Ricky ledo for his upside, Durand Scott, and mike muscala.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Some random players that have worked out for Spurs:
Ricky Ledo
Isaiah Canaan
Grant Jerrett
Durand Scott
Erik Murphy
Brandon Davies

easily available with the late 2nd round pick. or undrafted even. i'm super excited about him.