David Stern Goes Off on Pop, Promises "Substantial Sanctions"

[Mugen]

Lockout, veto CP3 trade, rigging the NBA draft, Substantial Sanctions.....


Vince McMahon is going all out in his farewell tour, tbh.

[spurraider21]

Next time Pop wants to sit the big 3 he should list all of them with a pinky bruise

[Mr. Body]

Suspending Pop or a fine would not be substantial. Draft picks would be going too far.

I could see suspending the players as in " if they were so tired, they can stay home for a couple of weeks and get some rest". That would really penalize the team.

How would he suspend the players? He's pissed the top players didn't play, so... he makes it so they don't play more?

And how could he fine the players? It wasn't their decision; he'd be encouraging insubordination over their coach's desires.

He could potentially fine the coach. But then the owner of the team would probably get pissed off for the punishment against the coach for doing what he's paid to do - coach - not to mention what he was trying to do was protect the lasting health of his players.

If I'm David Stern, I stay awake tonight for a very long time because I've stuck my foot in my mouth. If I don't do anything, I've made myself look stupid. If I do something, I look like an overreaching buffoon AND and tyrant.

Just not a good night for old Stern there.

[Mugen]

http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/david-stern-boos.jpg

[HI-FI]

serious though, whenever he retires and LA builds it's 10 foot statue outside Staples for the 5 foot dude, he should consider driving off a cliff.

[jestersmash]

Adam Silver has already set a precedent and plenty of other teams (Spurs included) have pulled this trick in the past without fines or sanctions.

There's absolutely no way Stern can punish the Spurs for this game. Maybe this game constituted the "straw that broke the camel's back" and Stern will implement some inevitably unenforceable rule that you can't rest stars just because they're tired, but that's it.

The league has set a clear precedent that resting stars is O.K. and "under the discretion of the [coaching staff]" (I don't remember Silver's exact words). If Stern wants to make this a fine-able offense, then fine, but he can't retroactively punish the Spurs after implementing it.

[DPG21920]

Again, any sanction, even minor, I would expect the Spurs to fight.

[Mel_13]

Again, any sanction, even minor, I would expect the Spurs to fight.

Actually, if he just slaps them on the wrist after promising "substantial sanctions", I believe the Spurs will just write the check and consider it a victory for the way they do business.

[024]

stern will end up having his revenge. 2013 WCSF, grizzlies vs the spurs, game 7. spurs up 10 with five minutes left. cue the grizzlies parade to the free throw line and the grizzlies pull out a victory and head to the WCF.

[jestersmash]

Actually, if he just slaps them on the wrist after promising "substantial sanctions", I believe the Spurs will just write the check and consider it a victory for the way they do business.

Stern respects Holt too much to make the Spurs organization as a whole (and therefore Holt) write a check or pay a fine.

[DPG21920]

Perhaps - but there is no reason to believe what they did is an offense that deserves any sort of ramifications. If you allow a sanction to happen, even if minor, you open the door to further penalties down the road.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Actually, if he just slaps them on the wrist after promising "substantial sanctions", I believe the Spurs will just write the check and consider it a victory for the way they do business.

There is nothing in the rules or in precedent that calls for even a slap on the wrist. If the Commissioner does anything "suo motu" without rule validation, it would be a tight slap on the NBA and a great dawn for conspiracy theorists who have long argued about undue influence of the "big market" on the NBA's decision making.

My guess is that David Stern will eat up his threat and move on .

[jestersmash]

Here's the term I was looking for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "from after the action" or "after the fact"), also called a retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions that were committed, or relationships that existed, before the enactment of the law.

Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution.


Edit:

Silver's exact quote about strategic resting of stars: “The strategic resting of particular players on particular nights is within the discretion of the teams. And Gregg Popovich in particular is probably the last coach that I would second-guess.”

[Mr. Body]

Aren't there pretty specific legal definitions for the term 'sanctions'? Stern is a lawyer first, second, and third (mixed with a businessman).

A sanction implies a restriction of future action or the removal of rights and permissions.

I think Stern's lawyerliness made sure he said that word. A punishment is not as likely - as many have pointed out, what was the violation? But we may see strong rules changes, whatever they may be.

[Boomersgold]

As someone said earlier, we should keep Mills, Neal, De Colo, Splitter and Diaw as our starters from now on, but take them out after 2 minutes in the first quarter. That could be our way of saying F U to Stern.

[Mel_13]

There is nothing in the rules or in precedent that calls for even a slap on the wrist. If the Commissioner does anything "suo motu" without rule validation, it would be a tight slap on the NBA and a great dawn for conspiracy theorists who have long argued about undue influence of the "big market" on the NBA's decision making.

My guess is that David Stern will eat up his threat and move on .

I agree that he has no grounds for any penalties, but he has promised them in a very public way. If the "substantial sanctions" turn into a slap on the wrist, then I believe that the Spurs will allow Stern to exit the situation in that way. Just my opinion.

[DPG21920]

I can't wait for the Woj article about this either way :lol

[thispego]

Stern seems to be missing the point of the NBA: it's a sport. Maybe he should be promoting the love of watching the game, no matter who is on the court. What happened tonight was a great game, probably a lot better than people thought. What pop did was something I was hoping he would do in the first place because Saturday is going to be TOUGH. Props to pop and the Spurs supporting cast, games like this is how we are going to get deep again like last year. We may have lost but I guarantee a couple more "no big three" games are gonna help. 2014 can't get here any sooner.
this


stern will end up having his revenge. 2013 WCSF, grizzlies vs the spurs, game 7. spurs up 10 with five minutes left. cue the grizzlies parade to the free throw line and the grizzlies pull out a victory and head to the WCF.

and this

[jestersmash]

Aren't there pretty specific legal definitions for the term 'sanctions'? Stern is a lawyer first, second, and third (mixed with a businessman).

A sanction implies a restriction of future action or the removal of rights and permissions.

I think Stern's lawyerliness made sure he said that word. A punishment is not as likely - as many have pointed out, what was the violation? But we may see strong rules changes, whatever they may be.

Is this right? If this is correct, this makes a whole lot more sense.

There's certainly no way Stern can punish the Spurs or Popovich individually for this incident.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I agree that he has no grounds for any penalties, but he has promised them in a very public way. If the "substantial sanctions" turn into a slap on the wrist, then I believe that the Spurs will allow Stern to exit the situation in that way. Just my opinion.

Knowing the low key Spurs and their focus on the big picture, your opinion might just be right. I just hope that David Stern realises the folly of his "sanction" comment and emulates the Spurs in that same reasoning.

[tuncaboylu]

That motherfucker is talking shit. Wasn't Game 6 in last year's western finals a sanction for Spurs, while they were trying to root Durant-Lebron final?

[TampaDude]

Here's the term I was looking for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "from after the action" or "after the fact"), also called a retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions that were committed, or relationships that existed, before the enactment of the law.

Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution.


Edit:

Silver's exact quote about strategic resting of stars: “The strategic resting of particular players on particular nights is within the discretion of the teams. And Gregg Popovich in particular is probably the last coach that I would second-guess.”

That rule doesn't apply to the NBA, though. Still, if Stern singled out the Spurs or pulled some stupid non-existent rule out of his ass, he'd surely end up in court over it, and would look like a whiny baby. It's a lose-lose for Stern. The smartest thing for Stern to do is just shut up and move on.

[KaiRMD1]

That motherfucker is talking shit. Wasn't Game 6 in las year's western finals is a sanction for Spurs, while they were trying to root Durant-Lebron final?

That was our sanction for sitting the big three out of the last two and Pop missing those games too. Every season we get a sanction I guess.

[jestersmash]

That rule doesn't apply to the NBA, though. Still, if Stern singled out the Spurs or pulled some stupid non-existent rule out of his ass, he'd surely end up in court over it, and would look like a whiny baby. It's a lose-lose for Stern. The smartest thing for Stern to do is just shut up and move on.

Why does it not apply to the NBA?

Say Stern creates a new rule within the NBA that says coaches can be punished by a fine if they rest otherwise "healthy" (he'll have to define this) stars on January 1, 2013.

Next, Stern decides to punish Popovich under this 2013 rule for something Popovich did on November 29, 2012.

Are you saying that Popovich couldn't - in principle - successfully sue the league under the precept that he was punished by an ex-post facto law?

I mean, maybe nba players/owners/coaches waived their constitutional rights for the right to play in the league. I'm not sure. I'm just genuinely curious.

[Mr. Body]

Is this right? If this is correct, this makes a whole lot more sense.

There's certainly no way Stern can punish the Spurs or Popovich individually for this incident.

Well, I don't know for certain, but that's my guess. I think Stern knows that trying to do anything about this incident ex post facto, as you said, opens up a bad can of worms. Acknowledging a problem and changing the rules going forward is the smarter thing to do. That it was a close game makes this easier.

[jestersmash]

That rule doesn't apply to the NBA, though. Still, if Stern singled out the Spurs or pulled some stupid non-existent rule out of his ass, he'd surely end up in court over it, and would look like a whiny baby. It's a lose-lose for Stern. The smartest thing for Stern to do is just shut up and move on.

If you're saying he'd "surely end up in court for it," are you implying that he'd lose? And if so, how can you say the rule "doesn't apply to the NBA?"

If Stern ends up in court and loses (hypothetically), then clearly the unconstitutionality of ex-post facto laws do apply to the NBA.

Unless of course you weren't necessarily implying that Stern would lose such a case...

[Mel_13]

Why does it not apply to the NBA?

Say Stern creates a new rule within the NBA that says coaches can be punished by a fine if they rest otherwise "healthy" (he'll have to define this) stars on January 1, 2013.

Next, Stern decides to punish Popovich under this 2013 rule for something Popovich did on November 29, 2012.

Are you saying that Popovich couldn't - in principle - successfully sue the league under the precept that he was punished by an ex-post facto law?

I mean, maybe nba players/owners/coaches waived their constitutional rights for the right to play in the league. I'm not sure. I'm just genuinely curious.

I'm not a lawyer, but no rule that Stern imposes is a law. Spurs would seem to a cause for legal action, but not on that basis.

[timvp]

If Stern's smart, he'll massage this another angle. He should say that healthy players can't be sent straight home. Instead, healthy players have to at least show up to the arena. Fine the Spurs $10K and threaten a bigger fine if the Spurs do it again.

Stern saves face. The Spurs don't really care. This can all go away.

[TampaDude]

Why does it not apply to the NBA?

Say Stern creates a new rule within the NBA that says coaches can be punished by a fine if they rest otherwise "healthy" (he'll have to define this) stars on January 1, 2013.

Next, Stern decides to punish Popovich under this 2013 rule for something Popovich did on November 29, 2012.

Are you saying that Popovich couldn't - in principle - successfully sue the league under the precept that he was punished by an ex-post facto law?

I mean, maybe nba players/owners/coaches waived their constitutional rights for the right to play in the league. I'm not sure. I'm just genuinely curious.

Dude...the Constitution only applies to actual laws passed by Congress or state legislatures. The rules of the NBA, a private organization, are not governed by the Constitution. That said, you are correct about trying to punish Pop for something that was not against the rules when he did it, even though that type of activity was later made to be a violation of the rules. The Spurs would sue the fuck outta the NBA in court and win easily, and Stern would have egg on his face.

[Spursfan092120]

Mike Taylor compared this situation to something, and I think it's pretty damn close..lol...rally cry.

8Tp55eSBxKk

[jestersmash]

I'm not a lawyer, but no rule that Stern imposes is a law. Spurs would seem to a cause for legal action, but not on that basis.

Ah, this is a good point. You're right, there's probably a very specific definition for "law" with regards to the unconstitutionality of ex-post facto "laws." Man, I'm glad I didn't go into law tbh :lol

Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

[will_spurs]

I assume a change on the way the IR list works, e.g. a player who doesn't suit up for a game forfeits the next 2 games as well, would require a change in the CBA? Or can Stern unilaterally change that?

[jimbo]

Why does it not apply to the NBA?

Say Stern creates a new rule within the NBA that says coaches can be punished by a fine if they rest otherwise "healthy" (he'll have to define this) stars on January 1, 2013.

Next, Stern decides to punish Popovich under this 2013 rule for something Popovich did on November 29, 2012.

Are you saying that Popovich couldn't - in principle - successfully sue the league under the precept that he was punished by an ex-post facto law?

I mean, maybe nba players/owners/coaches waived their constitutional rights for the right to play in the league. I'm not sure. I'm just genuinely curious.

1) I don't think Pop could sue anyone. He probably has an arbitration clause in his contract.

2) There would be no "law" Stern would be imposing. "Law" is a specific term that doesn't apply to anything Stern would be doing, it's a legislative term. It's likely in Pop's contract that he has to accept the fine or go to arbitration for something like this.

3) There's already precedent for fining Pop with the Pat Riley deal in 1990.

[jestersmash]

Dude...the Constitution only applies to actual laws passed by Congress or state legislatures. The rules of the NBA, a private organization, are not governed by the Constitution. That said, you are correct about trying to punish Pop for something that was not against the rules when he did it, even though that type of activity was later made to be a violation of the rules. The Spurs would sue Stern in court and win easily, and Stern would have egg on his face.

So Stern couldn't lose under the unconstitutionality of "ex-post facto laws." I get that.

But under what premise would the Spurs "win easily?" Why are you so certain that the Spurs would win given that the unconstitutionality of ex-post facto laws doesn't apply (because rules within the NBA aren't "laws" governed by the Constitution, as you said)?

All this time I've been assuming that ex-post facto would be relevant to this case, but you and others have indicated that it's not.

With ex-post facto irrelevant, why are you still so certain that the Spurs would win?

[TampaDude]

So Stern couldn't lose under the unconstitutionality of "ex-post facto laws." I get that.

But under what premise would the Spurs "win easily?" Why are you so certain that the Spurs would win given that the unconstitutionality of ex-post facto laws doesn't apply (because rules within the NBA aren't "laws" governed by the Constitution, as you said)?

All this time I've been assuming that ex-post facto would be relevant to this case, but you and others have indicated that it's not.

With ex-post facto irrelevant, why are you still so certain that the Spurs would win?

The rules of the NBA are part of a contract between the NBA and the coaches/players/etc. For the NBA to punish Pop and/or the Spurs for something that was not prohibited by the rules at the time the activity in question took place is a clear breach of that contract, and is actionable in civil court.

[Mr. Body]

I agree in seeing Stern promise some rule change at the end of the season, voicing his 'stern' displeasure, and fine the team something like that $10,000. I also doubt the team actually pays it - because the league office won't actually expect it paid, given the cans of beans this opens up.

[TampaDude]

I agree in seeing Stern promise some rule change at the end of the season, voicing his 'stern' displeasure, and fine the team something like that $10,000. I also doubt the team actually pays it - because the league office won't actually expect it paid, given the cans of beans this opens up.

Magic 8 Ball says Stern will be doing some major fudging and backpedaling with regards to his "substantial sanctions" remark.

[fukyoteamclown]

Would have to go to Board of Governors for the league for a vote, Holt would probably have to abstain from voting on the issue, but as Chairman I am sure he wields exceptional influence on other owners. If players were to be affected, the Players Association would have to go through a similar rule of order. Oh yeah, fukyocommishclown

[rudwick]

I predict even though they have no good argument, they will suspend Pop for "conduct detrimental to the league" or some other vague bullshit.

[jestersmash]

The rules of the NBA are part of a contract between the NBA and the coaches/players/etc. For the NBA to punish Pop and/or the Spurs for something that was not prohibited by the rules at the time the activity in question took place is a clear breach of that contract, and is actionable in civil court.

Ok that's the part that I was unaware of and was asking about. So you're saying there's already an ex-post facto provision within in the rules and contracts of the NBA. Thanks for clearing that up.

You could've said that from the start though, tbh :lol Just a simple "oh, the constitutional ex-post facto provision doesn't apply but the NBA contracts have their own provision against ex-post facto sanctions/punishments"

[Clipper Nation]

stern will end up having his revenge. 2013 WCSF, grizzlies vs the spurs, game 7. spurs up 10 with five minutes left. cue the grizzlies parade to the free throw line
That was going to happen anyway if you face the Grizzlies regardless of whether Pop did what he did.... Grizzlies are one of the most sickeningly ref-coddled teams in the league....

[ploto]

The fact that 3 perfectly healthy players did not even show up for the game is what sent it over the top. I would think that maybe the league could somehow keep those players from getting paid for that game because they had no legitimate reason not to be there. But of course I have no idea exactly what it says in their player contracts.

[fukyoteamclown]

Stern will make a push to rewrite rules for next season, will deflect any liability by explaining that "sanctions were forthcoming" for the entire league in the future and not for retroactive decisions made by the Spurs. Just watch.

[TampaDude]

Ok that's the part that I was unaware of and was asking about. So you're saying there's already an ex-post facto provision within in the rules and contracts of the NBA. Thanks for clearing that up.

You could've said that from the start though, tbh :lol Just a simple "oh, the constitutional ex-post facto provision doesn't apply but the NBA contracts have their own provision against ex-post facto sanctions/punishments"

No, it's not any type of ex-post facto provision at all. Such things do not exist in contracts. It's actionable because it is a fundamental breach of contract. We're talking contract law here, not Constitutional law.

[Mel_13]

The fact that 3 perfectly healthy players did not even show up for the game is what sent it over the top. I would think that maybe the league could somehow keep those players from getting paid for that game because they had no legitimate reason not to be there. But of course I have no idea exactly what it says in their player contracts.

The Spurs, the Heat, and the Celtics all did the same thing last season with no action from the league. Stern will be hard pressed to explain why this case requires action when previous examples did not.

[DPG21920]

The fact that 3 perfectly healthy players did not even show up for the game is what sent it over the top. I would think that maybe the league could somehow keep those players from getting paid for that game because they had no legitimate reason not to be there. But of course I have no idea exactly what it says in their player contracts.

Where you seem to be really confused is the team advised them not to show up - it was not the players making the decision.

[fukyoteamclown]

The fact that 3 perfectly healthy players did not even show up for the game is what sent it over the top. I would think that maybe the league could somehow keep those players from getting paid for that game because they had no legitimate reason not to be there.
No justification, its not a contractual decision between players, it is a decision made by the coaching staff who is also an executive in the Spurs organization. Pop wields more power than the average coach as he is also part of the decisions of the entire group. It is all speculation, but at this point and after that performance from our bench, Stern will have a tough task finding precedence to sanction Pop or the team. I am glad our guys didn;t go down like the Bobcats did the other night. To come into this game as 6pt underdogs in vegas and lose by only 5 with our third string, it is a major moral victory. Not just from the game standpoint alone, but that the bench had the commish doubting them and still performed above expectations.

Sanctions should be handed out on the fact that the Heat got to the line more times in the last 4 mins than the previous 44mins.

[TDMVPDPOY]

a 10k fine dont mean shit to the spurs

hand it in pennies and fck him, throw it at the clown

[jestersmash]

No, it's not any type of ex-post facto provision at all. Such things do not exist in contracts. It's actionable because it is a fundamental breach of contract. We're talking contract law here, not Constitutional law.

What portion of what contract is being breached (just out of curiosity)?

[TampaDude]

The fact that 3 perfectly healthy players did not even show up for the game is what sent it over the top. I would think that maybe the league could somehow keep those players from getting paid for that game because they had no legitimate reason not to be there. But of course I have no idea exactly what it says in their player contracts.

NO! The players cannot be punished for this! They have to abide by the coach's decision. It's out of their hands. Stern can only punish Pop.

[Spursfan092120]

http://i46.tinypic.com/vd3f2g.jpg

[carina_gino20]

How are they going to explain away the countless times Pop and other coaches have done this in the past without getting sanctioned? How is this different from last season when Pop and Big 3 flew back instead of playing vs PHX? Basketball reasons?

[Mel_13]

What portion of what contract is being breached (just out of curiosity)?

Somewhere in all the contracts, rules, agreements and bylaws that govern the operation of the NBA, there are provisions that describe the powers and responsibilities of the NBA Commissioner. If he takes actions that exceed those powers, those affected have the basis for legal action.

[ploto]

Where you seem to be really confused is the team advised them not to show up - it was not the players making the decision.

I know Pop told them not to show up, but they are the ones who signed the contract and have to live up to it. As I said, I do not know the provisions in the player contracts, but IIRC they can get fined by the league for missing certain events. So even if Pop told them not to show up, they could still be held responsible for violating a contract they signed.

[DPG21920]

I know Pop told them not to show up, but they are the ones who signed the contract and have to live up to it. As I said, I do not know the provisions in the player contracts, but IIRC they can get fined by the league for missing events.

You're still confused.

[TampaDude]

What portion of what contract is being breached (just out of curiosity)?

The part where the rule violations and their punishments are set out in the CBA. If "resting healthy players" is not expressly prohibited, Stern doesn't have a leg to stand on. He can't just capriciously make up shit that's not in the rules.

[TampaDude]

Somewhere in all the contracts, rules, agreements and bylaws that govern the operation of the NBA, there are provisions that describe the powers and responsibilities of the NBA Commissioner. If he takes actions that exceed those powers, those affected have the basis for legal action.

^ this

Stern has a lot of power over the NBA, but his powers are not unlimited.

[PublicOption]

Pop gave a big FUCK YOU to Stern for 1. making them play all those road games before playing Miami. and 2. Fucking us in the Western Conference finals.

Now I know Pop thinks the league is rigged and a joke, that's why he did it.

I am glad he did. FUCK YOU STERN!

[Spursfan092120]

http://i.qkme.me/35g9zs.jpg

[Trainwreck2100]

http://i46.tinypic.com/280i4d0.jpg

[ploto]

You're still confused.

No, I am not confused at all. I am suggesting possible ways that the league could find to punish a team whose players miss a game when they are healthy enough to be there. Whether they will or can do it or not, I already said I do not know. But I do think that Stern will look for some way to say someone violated some contract, and it would seem that it would have to be the players who did so.

[TDMVPDPOY]

doesnt really make a difference if they came or not, its still the coach decision to play them or not....

this is gettin stupid, fck miami, fck their fans, wtf gives a shit about bandwagon fans

[TampaDude]

http://i46.tinypic.com/280i4d0.jpg

sig worthy... :toast

[fukyoteamclown]

What portion of what contract is being breached (just out of curiosity)?
Good inquiry, Stern could easily cite "economic waste" as a basis for his argument to favor his cause. Anticapatory Repudiation may also be a clause Stern would cite to favor his argument.

[TampaDude]

Good inquiry, Stern could easily cite "economic waste" as a basis for his argument to favor his cause. Anticapatory Repudiation may also be a clause Stern would cite to favor his argument.

Uh, dude...it's not anticipatory repudiation if there's no rule specifically addressing what Pop did.

[DPG21920]

No, I am not confused at all. I am suggesting possible ways that the league could find to punish a team whose players miss a game when they are healthy enough to be there. Whether they will or can do it or not, I already said I do not know. But I do think that Stern will look for some way to say someone violated some contract, and it would seem that it would have to be the players who did so.

That is why I am saying youre confused.

[ElNono]

The Spurs, the Heat, and the Celtics all did the same thing last season with no action from the league. Stern will be hard pressed to explain why this case requires action when previous examples did not.

Sure, and teams tank too. But that doesn't prevent the commish from doing anything. As somebody pointed out already, there were already previous instances where the commish fined teams from 'resting' players.

If anything, Stern might just want the practice to end, or at least be announced with enough time beforehand so fans are aware of the kind of product they're buying into (at least for that night).

As a fan that has driven 4+ hours in a single day and paid upwards of $500 for two game tickets to see my Spurs, I would be fairly upset of learning about that kind of switcheroo mere hours before the game. Sure, you go see the team, but it's obviously not the same thing if all star Tony Parker isn't playing, tbh.

[TampaDude]

As a fan that has driven 4+ hours in a single day and paid upwards of $500 for two game tickets to see my Spurs, I would be fairly upset of learning about that kind of switcheroo mere hours before the game. Sure, you go see the team, but it's obviously not the same thing if all star Tony Parker isn't playing, tbh.

Life sucks. Get a helmet.

[fukyoteamclown]

ploto, you are looking at it all from the wrong angle. try harder

[Mel_13]

No, I am not confused at all. I am suggesting possible ways that the league could find to punish a team whose players miss a game when they are healthy enough to be there. Whether they will or can do it or not, I already said I do not know. But I do think that Stern will look for some way to say someone violated some contract, and it would seem that it would have to be the players who did so.

Ask yourself why the league has never punished anyone for doing this in the past. The obvious answer is that it's not against the rules.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if he punishes the spurs, then why not punish teams tankin?

[TampaDude]

Ask yourself why the league has never punished anyone for doing this in the past. The obvious answer is that it's not against the rules.

DING DING DING!!! WINNER!!! THANK YOU!!!

Stern can't just pull shit out of his ass and make it stick. Rules have to be voted on.

[ElNono]

Life sucks. Get a helmet.

Life is beautiful, tbh. Not what we're discussing here at all. I recall one game I drove to the arena and found out Manu wasn't going to play because of back pains or something while on my way. Obviously, still went and enjoyed the game. But an injury is one thing, a shameless game tank is another.

[ElNono]

BTW Mel, not sure how long you're staying in NY, but if you need a ride to the philly game at the end of Feb, give me a holla... I'm driving from NJ and we have room for one or two more... :toast

[fukyoteamclown]

Uh, dude...it's not anticipatory repudiation if there's no rule specifically addressing what Pop did.
As I stated, it is all speculation at this point. Just adding some angles Stern could be coming from to substantiate any potential actions or defense.

If you can provide Pop's contract I am sure you could substantiate your claim as well. So....

[Mel_13]

Sure, and teams tank too. But that doesn't prevent the commish from doing anything. As somebody pointed out already, there were already previous instances where the commish fined teams from 'resting' players.

If anything, Stern might just want the practice to end, or at least be announced with enough time beforehand so fans are aware of the kind of product they're buying into (at least for that night).

As a fan that has driven 4+ hours in a single day and paid upwards of $500 for two game tickets to see my Spurs, I would be fairly upset of learning about that kind of switcheroo mere hours before the game. Sure, you go see the team, but it's obviously not the same thing if all star Tony Parker isn't playing, tbh.

That was under a long expired CBA.

I get all the stuff about fans being pissed and I get that Stern would want to prevent this in the future, but this happened multiple times under the the new CBA last season. If it was such a priority to prevent such actions, he had all summer to get the necessary parties to agree to new guidelines. Nothing was done to change the rules. I don't see how he has any basis to take any action against the Spurs for tonight's game.

[TampaDude]

That was under a long expired CBA.

I get all the stuff about fans being pissed and I get that Stern would want to prevent this in the future, but this happened multiple times under the the new CBA last season. If it was such a priority to prevent such actions, he had all summer to get the necessary parties to agree to new guidelines. Nothing was done to change the rules. I don't see how he has any basis to take any action against the Spurs for tonight's game.

Mel_13 with the goods. :toast

[ElNono]

That was under a long expired CBA.

I get all the stuff about fans being pissed and I get that Stern would want to prevent this in the future, but this happened multiple times under the the new CBA last season. If it was such a priority to prevent such actions, he had all summer to get the necessary parties to agree to new guidelines. Nothing was done to change the rules. I don't see how he has any basis to take any action against the Spurs for tonight's game.

To be fair, Silver's comment last season was under the context of a compressed 66 game season, which is not the case this year. Not saying the scheduling isn't a bitch, but all teams have tough schedules here or there. Obviously, not all teams have old players as their best players like we do.

And I wouldn't second guess Stern's ability to impart punishment, tbh. He's a shark, he'll find a way.

[TampaDude]

Life is beautiful, tbh. Not what we're discussing here at all. I recall one game I drove to the arena and found out Manu wasn't going to play because of back pains or something while on my way. Obviously, still went and enjoyed the game. But an injury is one thing, a shameless game tank is another.

Of course life is beautiful. My comment was a short way of saying that life, as beautiful as it is overall, is still subject to life's little disappointments, and that folks need to understand that shit doesn't always go your way.

[TampaDude]

And I wouldn't second guess Stern's ability to impart punishment, tbh. He's a shark, he'll find a way.

Pop will just have Stern "disappeared". :lol

[SpursFan0728]

I don't understand why Stern is so butt hurt. Every NBA fan is subjective as to which players they want to see in a game. I pay to let my son see Matt Bonner doesn't guarantee we;ll see him on the court every game. Shouldn't then he comes and apologize to us as well?

[ElNono]

Of course life is beautiful. My comment was a short way of saying that life, as beautiful as it is overall, is still subject to life's little disappointments, and that folks need to understand that shit doesn't always go your way.

Pop is about to find that out soon enough, tbh

[Trainwreck2100]

Pop is about to find that out soon enough, tbh

He already knows that after the bullshit he's put up with before

[Mel_13]

To be fair, Silver's comment last season was under the context of a compressed 66 game season, which is not the case this year. Not saying the scheduling isn't a bitch, but all teams have tough schedules here or there. Obviously, not all teams have old players as their best players like we do.

And I wouldn't second guess Stern's ability to impart punishment, tbh. He's a shark, he'll find a way.

The league hasn't challenged team decisions such as these since the inactive list replaced the injured list. They have no basis for any action.

That being said, he'll doing something to save face, but it will look much more like a slap on the wrist than substantial sanctions. The Spurs will accept the slap on the wrist, but any action that truly harms their operations will be fought.

[$pursDynasty]

http://i46.tinypic.com/vd3f2g.jpg

:rollinFunniest thing I've seen in ages, this was exactly what I was thinking though.

[ElNono]

The league hasn't challenged team decisions such as these since the inactive list replaced the injured list. They have no basis for any action.

That being said, he'll doing something to save face, but it will look much more like a slap on the wrist than substantial sanctions. The Spurs will accept the slap on the wrist, but any action that truly harms their operations will be fought.

I have $20 he makes the Spurs org put out an apology letter "to the fans" + some token fine. The thing is, going forward, what happens? I guess Pop will have them on the bench and not play them?

[TDMVPDPOY]

they already fine the spurs with the last bailout one sided calls in that last 8mins of the game...

fck him, fck his minions...

[TampaDude]

Pop is about to find that out soon enough, tbh

Pop doesn't give a shit. He really, really, does not.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lol stern cant do shit when alot of former spurs management workers are in the other teams offices holding key positions...

nba spring bitches, its coming...

[Mel_13]

And I'll restate something I said earlier.

These Thursday TNT games are supposed to exclusively showcase the NBA to a nationwide audience. It only involves four teams each week. If Stern is so concerned about the quality of the product for these weekly showcases, then direct the schedule makers to ensure that the four teams that play on Thursday are scheduled not to play on Wednesday.

[Darkwaters]

It's not like the Spurs have really done anything good with draft picks lately. It probably wouldn't make a difference.

I agree. Kawhi Leonard is a scrub.

[crc21209]

Stern can go suck a big fat one. And I'm sure Pop is thinking the same way. Pop is probably laughing his ass off sippin' on a glass of wine right now...:lol

[ElNono]

Pop doesn't give a shit. He really, really, does not.

well, we'll see what happens, but I suspect Pop gonna have to scrap those plans of resting players throughout the season.

[crc21209]

As I'm watching the TNT post game I'm tired of hearing Ernie Johnson say that "Well the fans, but the fans got robbed of seeing the Spurs." Please, when you have James, Wade, and Bosh on ONE team, who cares who they're playing? You get to see 3 of the top 25 players in the league...

[Mel_13]

I have $20 he makes the Spurs org put out an apology letter "to the fans" + some token fine. The thing is, going forward, what happens? I guess Pop will have them on the bench and not play them?

Any apology won't have Pop's signature, that's for sure.

Going forward, I suppose they can insist that healthy players show up in the arena, but the league can't say a damn thing about who plays, or for how many minutes, without changes to the CBA that I doubt will ever be pursued.

[Darkwaters]

Next time we're in this situation, we should trot out the full lineup, do the opening tip and immediately call timeout. Substitute the whole starting lineup and declare them done for the night.

I can see the post-game interviews. "I just didn't like the way the starters got started last night. So I went to the bench and they played great down the stretch."

[TampaDude]

well, we'll see what happens, but I suspect Pop gonna have to scrap those plans of resting players throughout the season.

Easy enough for a player to have "back spasms" or some vague shit like that, so Pop's gonna do what he damn well pleases, even if that doesn't please Stern...or you.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Well, that is his job. Just like Pop has his.

Pop's job: Win the Spurs a championship. . . Stern's job: Make sure the finals are the Lakers and Heat.

[TDMVPDPOY]

stern cant do shit without the other team owners votes

his just commissioner who oversees things, doesnt mean he has 100% control in whatever he wants to do as he like

dude is replaceable just like any ceo of a company...

[ElNono]

I think Kenny nailed it... they're going to go with the :cry broken spirit of the game :cry baloney and drop the hammer...

Whoever thinks Stern will make such statement and there will be no repercussions, hasn't been paying attention. I'm not even sure the CBA matters here as he could drop the hammer on the organization itself, and it would be a matter with ownership, not players.

[ElNono]

Easy enough for a player to have "back spasms" or some vague shit like that, so Pop's gonna do what he damn well pleases, even if that doesn't please Stern...or you.

we'll see. I wouldn't put it past Stern sending a medical team to verify the injuries. He's a lawyer (and jew to boot). You're not screwing around with him.

[DesertSpur50]

Even if Stern fines Pop what's gonna stop Pop from doing it again? Pop's a fuckin millionaire and more than likely doesn't give a shit about what Stern wants. In the end Stern will be the one looking foolish for fining coaches for coaching.

[ElNono]

Any apology won't have Pop's signature, that's for sure.

No doubt

[jestersmash]

we'll see. I wouldn't put it past Stern sending a medical team to verify the injuries. He's a lawyer (and jew to boot). You're not screwing around with him.

That's not very nice, tbh.

[ElNono]

That's not very nice, tbh.

It was actually a compliment...

[Mel_13]

I think Kenny nailed it... they're going to go with the :cry broken spirit of the game :cry baloney and drop the hammer...

Whoever thinks Stern will make such statement and there will be no repercussions, hasn't been paying attention. I'm not even sure the CBA matters here as he could drop the hammer on the organization itself, and it would be a matter with ownership, not players.

Given the statement he issued, some sort of repercussion is forthcoming, but I don't believe it will be anything that causes any actual harm to the Spurs.

[HI-FI]

I think Kenny nailed it... they're going to go with the :cry broken spirit of the game :cry baloney and drop the hammer...

Whoever thinks Stern will make such statement and there will be no repercussions, hasn't been paying attention. I'm not even sure the CBA matters here as he could drop the hammer on the organization itself, and it would be a matter with ownership, not players.
EJ is a good guy and good host, he's taking the company line with this one but it's bullshit. If your going with the argument "hey we're paying to see the best of the team, they should play" then how many minutes should they trot the best out there, especially if they are as run down as our guys? It's a slippery slope argument. How much power should the customers paying have over the visiting team...shit even the home team, especially if the long term is more important than the short term?

Stern is such a power mad fuck, it's embarrassing. I can't believe some people on here still think he's the best commish of all time, he makes Vince McMahan look good.

[Clipper Nation]

Ask yourself why the league has never punished anyone for doing this in the past. The obvious answer is that it's not against the rules.

Actually, it turns out they have..... http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19900425&id=UjopAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xIQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1299,4182897

[jestersmash]

Easy enough for a player to have "back spasms" or some vague shit like that, so Pop's gonna do what he damn well pleases, even if that doesn't please Stern...or you.

Yeah this is why any rule in a future contract is totally unenforceable, because players can always cite subjective medical conditions that don't have a means to be objectively verified (or excluded). Back spasms is a good, generic example.

[ElNono]

EJ is a good guy and good host, he's taking the company line with this one but it's bullshit. If your going with the argument "hey we're paying to see the best of the team, they should play" then how many minutes should they trot the best out there, especially if they are as run down as our guys? It's a slippery slope argument. How much power should the customers paying have over the visiting team...shit even the home team, especially if the long term is more important than the short term?

I agree. EJ was spinning non-stop.


Stern is such a power mad fuck, it's embarrassing. I can't believe some people on here still think he's the best commish of all time, he makes Vince McMahan look good.

Which is the reason you don't fuck with him. I don't agree with what Stern is saying either, and I think Pop should do as he pleases. But if there's a guy you don't fuck with, it's Stern.
Just reading commentary from coaches and players about this, nobody, and I mean, nobody wants to say a peep against Stern's position. That's how scared he has everyone.

[ElNono]

BTW, coaches are not subject to the CBA, correct? They could suspend and fine Pop and the CBA would have nothing to do with it, right?

[Mel_13]

I wouldn't put it past Stern sending a medical team to verify the injuries.

This would require a change to the CBA, one that the NBA would never pursue. The NBA changed the "injured list" to the "inactive list" precisely because the injured list had become a joke.

They'll never pursue such a change in the CBA for the obvious reason. It would just take one instance where a league doctor said a player had to play, and then that player was aggravated the injury he claimed that he had.

[HI-FI]

I agree. EJ was spinning non-stop.



Which is the reason you don't fuck with him. I don't agree with what Stern is saying either, and I think Pop should do as he pleases. But if there's a guy you don't fuck with, it's Stern.
Just reading commentary from coaches and players about this, nobody, and I mean, nobody wants to say a peep against Stern's position. That's how scared he has everyone.
exactly. You saw how he brought the hammer down on Jeff Van Gundy. He's a ruthless commish, I think it's hilarious he's apologizing to the fans. Curious if he's ever apologized for some of the shitty officiating that has ruined some epic playoffs during his tenure. Too many people in the league are scared of him.

[Mel_13]

Actually, it turns out they have..... http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=336&dat=19900425&id=UjopAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xIQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=1299,4182897

As stated multiple times in this thread, that was several CBAs ago. And my post referred to players, not coaches.

[ElNono]

This would require a change to the CBA, one that the NBA would never pursue. The NBA changed the "injured list" to the "inactive list" precisely because the injured list had become a joke.

They'll never pursue such a change in the CBA for the obvious reason. It would just take one instance where a league doctor said a player had to play, and then that player was aggravated the injury he claimed that he had.

I see. Tampa is right then, that's the loophole.

[SpurSwag]

My argent for this is it's simply disrespectful to punish the spurs, because stern would essentially acknowledge the fact that some players are better than others and should be treated differently. When pop benches patty, bonner, and nando, that is pops decision and stern couldn't care less. But when it's our 3 best players, suddenly it's an issue? That's my problem with sterns statement

[Mel_13]

BTW, coaches are not subject to the CBA, correct? They could suspend and fine Pop and the CBA would have nothing to do with it, right?

They're not, but they have their own union and there are rules that govern what the commissioner can to do to coaches. I have no idea what they are, but I would bet that Pop didn't violate any of them tonight.

[ElNono]

As stated multiple times in this thread, that was several CBAs ago. And my post referred to players, not coaches.

But the CBA doesn't matter. The precedent is set that he can land the hammer on Pop or the Spurs org, correct?

[ElNono]

As I said in another thread, if this is going to be the norm, I'd like to see this address teams that tank halfway through the season too.

[jestersmash]

exactly. You saw how he brought the hammer down on Jeff Van Gundy. He's a ruthless commish, I think it's hilarious he's apologizing to the fans. Curious if he's ever apologized for some of the shitty officiating that has ruined some epic playoffs during his tenure. Too many people in the league are scared of him.

He has. Or at least he's made the "NBA" issue official statements. He'll say something like "upon further review, a foul should've been called here/goal tending should've been called here/this blocking foul should've been called a charge on the other player" etc.

He issued a statement for one of the Boston-Atlanta playoff games this last season where Atlanta had the ball out of bounds and one of the Boston players fouled someone before the ball was in-bounded.

Atlanta should've been awarded 1 free throw and the ball (they were down by 2) that could've changed the outcome of the game.

The NBA issued an apology -

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/11/nba-admits-blown-call-at-end-of-hawks-loss-to-celtics/

[Boomersgold]

What are we fans going to do if Stern does end up giving the Spurs a fine or suspending some of our players? Is there a petition that we can sign to get rid of Stern?

[Mel_13]

But the CBA doesn't matter. The precedent is set that he can land the hammer on Pop or the Spurs org, correct?

Those were when the "injured list" existed. Riley was fined for placing healthy players on the injured list. The Spurs didn't violate any rule by choosing to place their best players on the inactive list.

[jestersmash]

But the CBA doesn't matter. The precedent is set that he can land the hammer on Pop or the Spurs org, correct?

IMO something like "precedent" probably doesn't apply in contract law like it does in constitutional law, but I'm just guessing.

[ElNono]

What are we fans going to do if Stern does end up giving the Spurs a fine or suspending some of our players? Is there a petition that we can sign to get rid of Stern?

I doubt it's going to be the players, since it wasn't their decision. But suspending Pop for 5 games or so can be considered pretty detrimental to the team, plus what happens going forward?

[ElNono]

Those were when the "injured list" existed. Riley was fined for placing healthy players on the injured list. The Spurs didn't violate any rule by choosing to place their best players on the inactive list.

IIRC, the max players on the inactive list is 3. Spurs sat out 4 + 2 more in Leonard and Jackson.

[Mel_13]

As I said in another thread, if this is going to be the norm, I'd like to see this address teams that tank halfway through the season too.

Exactly. This "integrity of the game" line can't be selectively applied. Golden State all but issued a press release that they were going to lose enough games to retain their lottery pick, which would have conveyed to Utah if they won too many games. They started 18-21 and finished 5-22. Yeah, acquiring RJ had something to with it, but still.

[Trainwreck2100]

IIRC, the max players on the inactive list is 3. Spurs sat out 4.

they weren't even on the inactive list, however the particular fine you were reffering to was for putting a healthy player on the injured reserve. That was the rule that was broken.

[ElNono]

Looking at the game book, all 4 players were not placed on the inactive list. They appear as 'Not with team'.

[ElNono]

they weren't even on the inactive list, however the particular fine you were reffering to was for putting a healthy player on the injured reserve. That was the rule that was broken.

Got it... how about the 1985 case though?

[Mel_13]

IIRC, the max players on the inactive list is 3. Spurs sat out 4 + 2 more in Leonard and Jackson.

I'm not sure. I know that you have to have 8 players in uniform and 13 on the roster.

[Mel_13]

Got it... how about the 1985 case though?

I have no idea. What were the circumstances then?

[ElNono]

I'm not sure. I know that you have to have 8 players in uniform and 13 on the roster.

max is 3, and can be extended to 4 if all the 3 in the list are currently injured and you get one more injured guy.

[SpursRock20]

So let me get this straight. You can lose games on purpose to tank for a good draft pick. But you can't rest your star players in hopes of having them fresher for the playoffs?

The ironic thing is that Stern thinks he is apoligizing to Spurs fans while most of us diehards don't seem to care on this message board and all of us throughly enjoyed the game. What's the problem?

[ElNono]

I have no idea. What were the circumstances then?

Rod Thorn, the NBA's vice president-operations, said Monday the Lakers were fined in 1985 for leaving Kareem Abdul-Jabar and Magic Johnson home rather than bringing them to a season-ending game in Kansas City

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19900425&id=r94zAAAAIBAJ&sjid=MDIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=3319,7397149

[Mel_13]

max is 3, and can be extended to 4 if all the 3 in the list are currently injured and you get one more injured guy.

Source? I'd like to read the details.

[polandprzem]

Pop Didn’t See This Trouble Coming




It is easy to believe Gregg Popovich is surprised at David Stern signaling he will come down hard on the Spurs for resting everyone this side of George Gervin on Thursday against the Heat. Popovich not only used the same tact in the past without hint of retribution, he was incredulous late last season when asked whether there was concern from the NBA high sheriffs regarding his lineup decisions.

“Why would there be?” Popovich responded.

Because the league has fined teams before for sitting players en masse.

“I don’t know that,” Popovich said.

This was in April, as the Spurs’ R&R policy was becoming a league debate and getting particular attention with the obstacle-course moment of a back-to-back-to-back just before the playoffs. Popovich, long known for conserving minutes of a veteran roster anyway, had a team surging at the right time, in contention with the Thunder for something as valuable as the best record in the Western Conference and home-court advantage until at least the Finals, and he was still looking for nights off for Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.

“The first time we did it was in Portland,” Popovich said of the Feb. 21 game with Duncan and Parker resting and Ginobili injured. “For a variety of reasons, we sat our guys. I got a letter from a gentleman who was disappointed because he came to the game with his cousin, they paid money and they wanted to see so-and-so and so-and-so. I wrote him back and I said, ‘If I was in your position, I would write the same letter. I agree with you totally. You’re right. But my priorities are different than yours.’ In the general sense, frankly, everything doesn’t go our way in life. Everything go your way every day? Sometimes things happen. That’s the way it goes.”

Classic Pop.

The Spurs had their hand slapped last season for listing Duncan as a DNP – Old when Duncan got a March 25 hiatus against the 76ers, and Popovich said he wouldn’t go the snark route anymore, noting how “There are some that didn’t think that was humorous.” It is different, a reporter suggested, when a player can be inactive for a game as opposed to the days of old of needing to list a player as injured whether he was or not.

“Since that rule change,” Popovich said, “I’d be surprised if somebody’s been called like, ‘Why didn’t you play so-and-so today?’ I’ve never gotten a call like that and I don’t know anybody who has.”

Coaches don’t have to phony up a case of the flu or tendinitis.

“They’ve made honest individuals out of us all,” Popovich said. “It’s our opportunity to repent and be honest.”

Now to find out months later what it gets him.



http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/11/30/popovich-didnt-see-this-trouble-coming/?ls=iref:nbahpts

[Mel_13]

Rod Thorn, the NBA's vice president-operations, said Monday the Lakers were fined in 1985 for leaving Kareem Abdul-Jabar and Magic Johnson home rather than bringing them to a season-ending game in Kansas City

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2245&dat=19900425&id=r94zAAAAIBAJ&sjid=MDIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=3319,7397149

I don't see the difference from the 1990 case. Healthy players didn't play. Teams couldn't do that back then, they can now.

[ElNono]

Source? I'd like to read the details.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q76

A team must have a minimum of one and a maximum of three players on its Inactive List, although they can drop to zero for up to two weeks at a time, and can temporarily have four (bringing their roster size to 16) with league approval in the event of a hardship.

[Boomersgold]

So let me get this straight. You can lose games on purpose to tank for a good draft pick. But you can't rest your star players in hopes of having them fresher for the playoffs?

The ironic thing is that Stern thinks he is apoligizing to Spurs fans while most of us diehards don't seem to care on this message board and all of us throughly enjoyed the game. What's the problem?

Stern obviously put some big bucks on the Spurs to beat the Heat, so when he found out that our 'big 3' weren't playing, he raged.

[ElNono]

I don't see the difference from the 1990 case. Healthy players didn't play. Teams couldn't do that back then, they can now.

Well, the difference would be that in the 1990 case they were fined for putting allegedly healthy players on the injured list, but apparently that was not the case in 1985, which is closer to this situation.

[SpursRock20]

Stern obviously put some big bucks on the Spurs to beat the Heat, so when he found out that our 'big 3' weren't playing, he raged.

We covered the spread tbh.

[racm]

Something's not right.

1. As has been said, Pop didn't violate any rule at all.
2. He did this last season a lot, giving the big 3 layoffs against Portland (40 point loss), Utah (7 point loss that was competitive until the end), Phoenix (4 point win in Steve Nash's last game as a Sun), and Golden State (6 point win where everyone who played was either a rookie or not part of the rotation). Why not crow then but crow now when it's the Spurs going against the Miami Heat?

I tell you if it were the Wizards Pop pulled this thing on no one would have batted an eyelash.

[roycrikside]

You don't get it LJ, you just don't get it.

Stern is a petty, egomaniacal vindictive bastard. I fully understand basketball- wise why Pop's decision. Basketball- wise I even agree with it.

But you gotta see the big picture. You don't piss Stern off. You just don't do it. The resting your stars on national TV, the acting like a boorish ass with the media on TV, it will have consequences?

You don't remember game 6 at OKC last year? It's gonna be the same shit. 5- on-8. We're gonna be fucked by rigged refs.

We're not the popular team we should be kissing his ass not aggravating him.

[Mel_13]

Well, the difference would be that in the 1990 case they were fined for putting allegedly healthy players on the injured list, but apparently that was not the case in 1985, which is closer to this situation.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that strikes me as a distinction without a difference. Further, both cases were over 20 years ago under a different set of rules. Finally, and most importantly, I'm sure the Spurs would be just fine if Stern used those cases as a precedent to impose a similar penalty.

[Mel_13]

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q76

A team must have a minimum of one and a maximum of three players on its Inactive List, although they can drop to zero for up to two weeks at a time, and can temporarily have four (bringing their roster size to 16) with league approval in the event of a hardship.

Thanks

[jestersmash]

We covered the spread tbh.

Yeah, spread was originally Miami winning by at least 3 and later jumped to Miami winning by 13 when people found out the Big 3 would be resting.

[timvp]

You don't get it LJ, you just don't get it.

Stern is a petty, egomaniacal vindictive bastard. I fully understand basketball- wise why Pop's decision. Basketball- wise I even agree with it.

But you gotta see the big picture. You don't piss Stern off. You just don't do it. The resting your stars on national TV, the acting like a boorish ass with the media on TV, it will have consequences?

You don't remember game 6 at OKC last year? It's gonna be the same shit. 5- on-8. We're gonna be fucked by rigged refs.

We're not the popular team we should be kissing his ass not aggravating him.

Honestly, how would Pop know Stern would react this violently? Pop has been pulling this same thing for years ... going back to the Robert Sarver "chicken" game back in 2005. All of a sudden, Stern decides to say something? I'm sure Pop is stunned by the turn of events since Stern has never even hinted at being upset by it in the past.

[racm]

You don't get it LJ, you just don't get it. Stern is a petty, egomaniacal vindictive bastard. I fully understand basketball- wise why Pop's decision. Basketball- wise I even agree with it. But you gotta see the big picture. You don't piss Stern off. You just don't do it. The resting your stars on national TV, the acting like a boorish ass with the media on TV, it will have consequences? You don't remember game 6 at OKC last year? It's gonna be the same shit. 5- on-8. We're gonna be fucked by rigged refs. We're not the popular team we should be kissing his ass not aggravating him. You do realize the Spurs won championships in spite of not being Stern's favorites (except in the 2007 Suns series, because lol Suns)? Why should Pop pander to Stern considering he hasn't done that in his career yet?

[Mel_13]

We're not the popular team we should be kissing his ass not aggravating him.

F that. If Stern wants to run the NBA like the WWE, that's on him.

[ElNono]

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but that strikes me as a distinction without a difference. Further, both cases were over 20 years ago under a different set of rules. Finally, and most importantly, I'm sure the Spurs would be just fine if Stern used those cases as a precedent to impose a similar penalty.

I would agree with that, except I know Pop plans to keep doing it going forward, and this time around he started early (don't think he sat the big 3 in november before). My main concern is both with pissing Stern off, and what happens going forward. I'm sure they'll be glad to pay a $25K fine for this, but what happens going forward?

[Trainwreck2100]

:cry Miami had to beat the toros when they were supposed to beat the spurs :cry

[timvp]

Going back even further, in 1999 Andrew Gaze came out and told the media he wasn't injured after Pop put him on the injured list. Stern didn't do anything.

[Trainwreck2100]

I would agree with that, except I know Pop plans to keep doing it going forward, and this time around he started early (don't think he sat the big 3 in november before). My main concern is both with pissing Stern off, and what happens going forward. I'm sure they'll be glad to pay a $25K fine for this, but what happens going forward?

when he benches guys they will still be with the team, instead of going home, that's it.

[Trainwreck2100]

Going back even further, in 1999 Andrew Gaze came out and told the media he wasn't injured after Pop put him on the injured list. Stern didn't do anything.

It did allow him to commentate that one game though

[ElNono]

This was Stern last year:

"I cringe but then I un-cringe," said Stern in April 2012 (http://www.nba.com/2012/news/features/steve_aschburner/04/26/top-coach-popovich/index.html) on the subject of Popovich resting players during the 2011-2012 season . "We knew in some ways it might be intensified by the compactness of the season. That's something we have tried to do in recent years, is not try to coach for the coach."

[Dingle Barry]

Everyone knows Aussies are criminals not to be trusted.

[ElNono]

tbh, LJ, get the links with the underline fixed pronto, perty please

[Mel_13]

I would agree with that, except I know Pop plans to keep doing it going forward, and this time around he started early (don't think he sat the big 3 in november before). My main concern is both with pissing Stern off, and what happens going forward. I'm sure they'll be glad to pay a $25K fine for this, but what happens going forward?

Going forward, you comply with any new guidelines. We'll have to see what, if any, changes are directed by the league.

Mark down Dec 13th in Portland and Dec 18th in Denver as the two most likely games for the next tank game. The Denver game will be the 17th road game in the first 27 games. Beyond that, the schedule becomes much more favorable for the Spurs and I don't see any games where the Big 3 would sit until playoff seeding has been clinched.

[Trainwreck2100]

Fans: "We want to see Duncan vs. Lebron

Coach: "No you get fundamental basketball"

Fans: "That's not why I go to basketball games"

[timvp]

"We knew in some ways it might be intensified by the compactness of the season. That's something we have tried to do in recent years, is not try to coach for the coach."

Stern with the self troll :lmao








I'm starting to think TNT called him for a comment and caught him off guard or something. He's too smart to say such empty words.

If Stern does drop the hammer on the Spurs, it's going to start a sh!tstorm with far reaching ripples. He'll have to start policing both winning teams resting star players and losing teams trying to tank. Does he really want to go there? I doubt it ... but then again his statement is so harsh he has to do something.

[Mel_13]

I would agree with that, except I know Pop plans to keep doing it going forward, and this time around he started early (don't think he sat the big 3 in november before). My main concern is both with pissing Stern off, and what happens going forward. I'm sure they'll be glad to pay a $25K fine for this, but what happens going forward?

He hasn't, but..

Tonight was game 17. Last year, game 17 was also the 4th game in 5 nights and Duncan was a healthy DNP that night. Manu was already on the shelf, but Tony did play.

[polandprzem]

Strange things happening.

You are all so pumped with anger against Stern even if he did not do anything yet.

I would better you to concentrate on the game rather on Stern but whatever.


It still gonna be meaningless and this will not be a big deal and you all want to go on a streets to protest :lol

[ElNono]

You are all so pumped with anger against Stern even if he did not do anything yet.

tbh, we're just cowering in fear...

[Mel_13]

If Stern does drop the hammer on the Spurs, it's going to start a sh!tstorm with far reaching ripples. He'll have to start policing both winning teams resting star players and losing teams trying to tank. Does he really want to go there? I doubt it ... but then again his statement is so harsh he has to do something.

It's an almost impossible task. What about players with minor injuries like Leonard? Is the league going to get involved in every such situation to define when a player is healthy enough to play? Duncan's left knee is 100 years old. Who is to determine when he is in too much pain to play?

They got out of that business because there was no reasonable way to enforce it.

[racm]

Stern wouldn't have gone ballistic if it were the Hawks or the Bobcats Pop did this to.

But no, :cry he has to coddle LeBron and Durant because they're the next Magic/Bird :cry

This is part of the fallout from Stern turning the NBA into a personality's league, tbh... the reason the championship Spurs weren't very popular was because they refused to conform to this designation, even if they had a star in Tim Duncan, simply because they couldn't provide a narrative for the league to tout.

[ElNono]

Stern doesn't care about Leonard. And I would hazard that if Pop puts them in the inactive list, he'll be off the hook. Problem for the Spurs this time was that they didn't have room.

I think Stern is pissed about blatant star resting like in this case. I'm also sure he received a phonecall from the TNT gurus voicing their displeasure.

Pop will have to just be more mindful on how he does this going forward.

[Thomas82]

What's up with these rumors about Pop possibly getting suspended?

[Mel_13]

Stern doesn't care about Leonard. And I would hazard that if Pop puts them in the inactive list, he'll be off the hook. Problem for the Spurs this time was that they didn't have room.

I think Stern is pissed about blatant star resting like in this case. I'm also sure he received a phonecall from the TNT gurus voicing their displeasure.

Pop will have to just be more mindful on how he does this going forward.

I don't think the inactive list or any technicality had anything to do with Stern's response. He took this as a personal affront and reacted as such. Now that he's registered his displeasure, Pop is plenty smart enough to moderate his behavior going forward.

[polandprzem]

tbh, we're just cowering in fear...


super

[timvp]

LeBron James: "I don't think Pop was in the wrong; it's not in the rules to tell you you can't send your guys home. The commish made his decision and everybody else will deal with it.


Props to LeBron for sticking up for Pop :tu

[racm]

Again, nobody except Stern made a fool of themselves. Pop fielded a competitive team, the Heat came and played (well, more like LeBron/Bosh/Allen), and everyone was more entertained than expected.

[polandprzem]

LeBron James: "I don't think Pop was in the wrong; it's not in the rules to tell you you can't send your guys home. The commish made his decision and everybody else will deal with it.


Props to LeBron for sticking up for Pop :tu

Haha - because LeBron also was treated with dayoffs. So he stays on his side.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Stern shot himself in the foot :lol must have been halfway through a bottle when they called him to comment.

That said, I do expect Duncan in early foul trouble and the Grizz shooting ~50FTs on saturday.

[Sean Cagney]

I am seriously hoping that the Spurs end up winning against the Heat, it would make a mockery of the Heat, David Stern, and his dumbass comment.

LOL they came close to doing it.

[FlAVaK]

Popovich angers Stern by resting Spurs' stars, but it's the right call (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/11/29/spurs-gregg-popovich-right-resting-starters/index.html?sct=nba_t11_a0)

"In the end, the Spurs made Popovich look like a genius."

[Legacy]

Classic. :wow

All I have to say is... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! :lmao

[Bruno]

Even if there isn't clearly a rule against what Pop did and even if the game didn't end up in a boring blow out, Spurs will be penalized. Spurs getting away with it will be a too big slap in Stern's face after his comments, he won't let it happen.

My guess would be a fine and Pop suspended for a game.

[Kuestmaster]

Popovich is great. Best coach ever.

And I'm waiting eagerly on Stern's retirement, that douchebag seeker attention needs to go.

[Boomersgold]

Even if there isn't clearly a rule against what Pop did and even if the game didn't end up in a boring blow out, Spurs will be penalized. Spurs getting away with it will be a too big slap in Stern's face after his comments, he won't let it happen.

My guess would be a fine and Pop suspended for a game.

But I don't quite understand what Pop did wrong. So Stern's going to suspend Pop for resting 3 of our oldest players for a game because he assumed that the Spurs' bench wasn't entertaining enough for NBA fans?

[Fireball]

LeBron James: "I don't think Pop was in the wrong; it's not in the rules to tell you you can't send your guys home. The commish made his decision and everybody else will deal with it.

Props to LeBron for sticking up for Pop :tu

Penalize Lebron :lol

[99 Problems]

Penalty - San Antonio should be made to supply 4 different teams each round for the rest of the season, so our bench does show up any other perceived super power.

[Fireball]

Fans: "We want to see Duncan vs. Lebron

Coach: "No you get fundamental basketball"

Fans: "That's not why I go to basketball games"

Hey, nothing is more fundamental than Tim Duncan ...

[Hoops Czar]

But I don't quite understand what Pop did wrong. So Stern's going to suspend Pop for resting 3 of our oldest players for a game because he assumed that the Spurs' bench wasn't entertaining enough for NBA fans?

Pop didn't rest his players prior to 2008. Since then, the Spurs have won as many championships as the Charlotte Bobcats. There is no evidence that resting players in a so-called meaningless game in November will have any impact on games played in April, May and June. Other teams have old players too. Should the Lakers sit Kobe, Pau and Nash on Christmas Day just to screw with Stern? Yeah, it won't happen. And quite calling TP old.

[Boomersgold]

Pop didn't rest his players prior to 2008. Since then, the Spurs have won as many championships as the Charlotte Bobcats. There is no evidence that resting players in a so-called meaningless game in November will have any impact on games played in April, May and June. Other teams have old players too. Should the Lakers sit Kobe, Pau and Nash on Christmas Day just to screw with Stern? Yeah, it won't happen. And quite calling TP old.

I never said TP was old. I said they were 3 of our 'oldest players' (on the Spurs) and they are.

[99 Problems]

All big market teams should be allowed to combine to compete against a travelling Spurs outfit.

All Small market teams should have an option to DNP against a travelling Spurs bench.

Spurs bench starters from today should be made to speak the following languages when on the court, French, Australian (slang) Brazilian. This is so it confuses Spurs players and therefore gives the home teams a chance

Spurs bench in fairness should indicate pre game what tactics and plays (in order) they will use.

Home fans upon arrivals at stadium should be told Spurs bench will start and be offered full refund on tickets.

All games with Spurs bench starting should be televised nationally.

[szkorhetz]

Fuck. Now we gave National TV a good, competitive game instead of an easy blow-out. They should love Pop decision, that he kept it a close game.

[Obstructed_View]

I guess Stern cares more about the fans in Miami than he does the fans in Portland.

[boutons_deux]

I guess Stern cares more about the fans in Miami than he does the fans in Portland.

Stern and the owners only care about gate and advertising revenue, not the quality of the game nor health of the players. That's why the abominations of an 82-game schedule, many B2Bs, 4 games in 5 days (on the road), and player/coach talent diluted over too many teams exist and will continue.

[polandprzem]

Stern and the owners only care about gate and advertising revenue, not the quality of the game nor health of the players. That's why the abominations of an 82-game schedule, many B2Bs, 4 games in 5 days (on the road), and player/coach talent diluted over too many teams exist and will continue.

UR right and they just provided the 82-game schedule few seasons ago

[Mel_13]

Pop didn't rest his players prior to 2008. Since then, the Spurs have won as many championships as the Charlotte Bobcats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation



There is no evidence that resting players in a so-called meaningless game in November will have any impact on games played in April, May and June.

There is, likewise, no evidence that playing them in that same game would have any impact.



Other teams have old players too.

And other teams rest players that are not injured as they see fit.



Should the Lakers sit Kobe, Pau and Nash on Christmas Day just to screw with Stern? Yeah, it won't happen.

Are the Lakers scheduled to play on Christmas Eve?

[99 Problems]

As sanction is French in origin Spurs bench should insist the NBA cease using the word.

Wow, what sanctions the Brooklyn bats and Boston rondo's must be in for.

[Mel_13]

Even if there isn't clearly a rule against what Pop did and even if the game didn't end up in a boring blow out, Spurs will be penalized. Spurs getting away with it will be a too big slap in Stern's face after his comments, he won't let it happen.

My guess would be a fine and Pop suspended for a game.

I'm sure the Spurs would be ok with that as it is a penalty that is well short of "substantial sanctions".

I am more looking forward to the statement that accompanies the penalty. Stern will have to provide some level of detail to define what exactly the Spurs did wrong. He will then be obligated to hold the other 29 franchises to the same standard.

[Spurs Brazil]

:flipoff Stern

[99 Problems]

San Antonio will not get to host the Olympics now.

[99 Problems]

If they make a movie about this, we gunna need a number of French actors.

[FromWayDowntown]

Pop didn't rest his players prior to 2008.

Not true. He pretty famously rested Duncan and Ginobili in a March 2005 game at Phoenix on the second night of a back-to-back, on the way to his 3rd title.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200503090PHO.html

He's done it with greater frequency in the past few years, but it's not new.

More importantly, I think, he's far from the only coach using this ploy.

[therealtruth]

I'm sure the Spurs would be ok with that as it is a penalty that is well short of "substantial sanctions".

I am more looking forward to the statement that accompanies the penalty. Stern will have to provide some level of detail to define what exactly the Spurs did wrong. He will then be obligated to hold the other 29 franchises to the same standard.

There's the spirit of the game and Stern obviously felt Pop pushed it too far. Maybe it was including Danny Green or flying them home. I got the feeling even though he tolerated it in the past he just felt it had gone too far. The interesting thing is that Pop is the only coach who would pull this stunt in November. Most coaches do it at the end of the season.

[Mel_13]

There's the spirit of the game and Stern obviously felt Pop pushed it too far. Maybe it was including Danny Green or flying them home. I got the feeling even though he tolerated it in the past he just felt it had gone too far. The interesting thing is that Pop is the only coach who would pull this stunt in November. Most coaches do it at the end of the season.

Stern is the last guy that can talk about the spirit of the game. Do you need to have the real truth detailed of all the ways that Stern has completely ignored the spirit of the game?

[ManuTastic]

Stern's a douche. Everyone knows that in the league. Ask CP3.

[Sausage]

God I hope the Spurs win the championship now and Stern has to hand the trophy over to Pop.

[ManuTastic]

Anything more than a $25K fine and the Spurs should take this to court. Penalized for doing nothing wrong? Yeah, no.

That's the long and short of it, exactly. Some token fine that's not worth fighting and reveals that Stern is all hat no cattle? Sure. A real penalty? No way.

[spurraider21]

Pop didn't rest his players prior to 2008. Since then, the Spurs have won as many championships as the Charlotte Bobcats. There is no evidence that resting players in a so-called meaningless game in November will have any impact on games played in April, May and June. Other teams have old players too. Should the Lakers sit Kobe, Pau and Nash on Christmas Day just to screw with Stern? Yeah, it won't happen. And quite calling TP old.
Nobody says we made ethis move "just to screw with Stern." It was our 4th game in 5 nights, all on the road to conclude a long road trip. If he wants to rest the veterans I'm all for it.

Injuries become more probable when players are fatigued

[Obstructed_View]

Pop didn't rest his players prior to 2008. Since then, the Spurs have won as many championships as the Charlotte Bobcats. There is no evidence that resting players in a so-called meaningless game in November will have any impact on games played in April, May and June. Other teams have old players too. Should the Lakers sit Kobe, Pau and Nash on Christmas Day just to screw with Stern? Yeah, it won't happen. And quite calling TP old.

You must be a bandwagon fan. Pop rested players against Nash and the Suns, so he's won at least 2 titles since the first time I remember him doing it.

[Obstructed_View]

Nobody says we made ethis move "just to screw with Stern." It was our 4th game in 5 nights, all on the road to conclude a long road trip. If he wants to rest the veterans I'm all for it.

Injuries become more probable when players are fatigued

Exactly. I guarantee Pop doesn't send those guys home if they walk into Miami having gone 1-4 on the road trip.

[Mel_13]

I'm sure the Spurs would be ok with that as it is a penalty that is well short of "substantial sanctions".

I am more looking forward to the statement that accompanies the penalty. Stern will have to provide some level of detail to define what exactly the Spurs did wrong. He will then be obligated to hold the other 29 franchises to the same standard.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/30/david-stern-be-careful-where-you-step-in-punishing-popovich-spurs/

My point is this — Stern is about to change either NBA rules or at least how the rules are interpreted and enforced by going after the Spurs with some kind of fine and punishment. And once he does that he sets a new precedent that has to be carried out for every team all season long.

And everywhere Stern and the league step with this new rule there are landmines.

With a punishment to the Spurs, the league is saying Popovich’s move — resting healthy players at the end of a road trip even if they are tired — is bad for the overall business of the NBA and cannot be tolerated. While Stern has always been about marketing and league perception first and foremost, he has not ventured into telling coaches how to coach before and a punishment to the Spurs changes that.

David Stern may feel the fan’s frustration from Thursday but he has a lot of questions to think about if he is going to punish the Spurs:

• Why is this situation in Miami a violation of league rules when Popovich did the same thing in Portland last year and it wasn’t? More to the point, how is that line drawn? What is and is not a violation?

• Is it something that is not okay to do in November but would be permitted later in the season, say March? Is the disappointed 12-year-old who doesn’t get to see his favorite players in November justified in his anger but the 12-year-old who has tickets the final week of the season is not?

• Is resting players something that cannot be done for nationally televised games but is okay to do in other games? Does what market the game is in matter? To use the Spurs case as an example, was it wrong to do this in Miami on a Thursday but would have been okay in Orlando on Wednesday? (Be careful in saying publicly that the fans and ratings in big markets are more important that smaller ones.)

• How do you define what players can and cannot be sat? If it is wrong for Popovich to sit major stars like Duncan and Parker, what about if Bucks coach Scott Skiles sits Monta Ellis and Brandon Jennings to rest them next week. Is that different? What players can and can’t be sat out? Is this a burden that falls only on teams with superstar players?

• And what happens in a situation like Thursday, where the undermanned team makes a game of it and had a legitimate chance to win? If the concern about the Spurs decision was they were not going to be competitive, that turned out not to be the case.

• What happens when Popovich wants to rest Duncan and to avoid a league fine Duncan suddenly has a minor foot or knee injury? By just a few weeks into any season you could make a case for every NBA player having a minor injury they should rest.

Wherever Stern steps on this issue there are potential landmines. He can’t say its wrong to do this in Miami but fine in Portland or other smaller market. He doesn’t want to get into dictating who a coach can and can’t play, but this skirts up against it. There is no easy way to define it. If he starts trying to define it by being competitive the Spurs were that.

In the past the league did not take action in these situations. Stern is changing how the rules are enforced if he acts to fine the Spurs here, and he is setting a new precedent that is going to apply to every team in the league going forward. He better think this through. Carefully.

Or it might be smarter if he just walked away from it altogether.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Totally agree with this article Mel posted - Stern got caught off guard and gave an emotional answer, that he most certainly regrets. He has no correct move now.The best thing he could do is not saying anything, not giving a fine, just moving on. His ego is probably too big for that, though.

Cue 50 FTs for the Grizzlies on saturday :lol

[TheChillFactor]

if stern wants to play babyshit games i'm sure pop would be happy to have them tip off, call timeout, and then have them sit. that would make a real mockery out of the fucking game...

[Spursfan092120]

:rollinFunniest thing I've seen in ages, this was exactly what I was thinking though.
Made it myself...lol

[Spurs da champs]

I'd never thought I'd see the day where ESPN defends the Spurs & where I'd disagree with them doing so.

[Darkwaters]

Mel,

Another point of discussion is this: what happens when a coach makes a decision to bench a "fan favorite" for legitimate basketball reasons?

I remember a number of years ago, when JR Smith was a 2nd year player and CP3 was a rookie, the Hornets benched JR Smith (who had been a stud the year before on an 18 win team) for basically the whole season. Why? Because he wasn't good for the team. He played selfish and loose and destroyed team chemistry. But he was an exciting player that a lot of fans wanted to see. Does the league now come in and dictate that the team play him or else?

And what about that exciting rookie that was so popular in college, was drafted highly, and then can't get on the court. If you get into a Hasheem Thabeet or an Adam Morrison situation, are you going to be mandated to play that guy because "he was great in last year's final four"?

If the league wants to mandate and dictate who a coach plays or doesn't play, these are reasonable questions.

[Hoops Czar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Au contraire, mon ami, You have no evidence/proof that it doesn't.






There is, likewise, no evidence that playing them in that same game would have any impact.

:lol Ya know, taking the opposing viewpoint doesn't prove your statement to be any more valid than mine. But if I were a betting man, I'd bet against you. I've never heard players refer back to a so-called meaningless game in November as being the straw that broke the camels back.





And other teams rest players that are not injured as they see fit.

I'm on my work computer so I don't have the time to look it up. However, knowing how resourceful you are, If you can find me a nationally televised game in November that a team outright tanked by resting its key players that didn't include a strike shortened season, then you have my undivided attention.





Are the Lakers scheduled to play on Christmas Eve?

You're right. They'll wait til they play at Denver on the 26th.



Not true. He pretty famously rested Duncan and Ginobili in a March 2005 game at Phoenix on the second night of a back-to-back, on the way to his 3rd title.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...503090PHO.html (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200503090PHO.html)

He's done it with greater frequency in the past few years, but it's not new.

More importantly, I think, he's far from the only coach using this ploy.

Good catch. While I'm not a fan of tanking, I show more lenience when done in March and April as opposed to November and December. Parker did play though. I don't have problems with resting players from time to time. I have a problem with resting them all on the same day in the same game. Players want to play in big games against elite competition. It doesn't get any bigger than the defending champions on the road with the whole world watching.

I guess my problem is that the NBA can be predictably unpredictable. Throwing a game away in November might seem harmless enough, but a serious injury or slump down the home stretch could seriously impact seeding and playoff posturing. Or just a tie for the division while losing the tiebreaker could cost the Spurs HCA and a shot at a return trip to the NBA finals.

Coincidentally, I have tickets to the Spurs/Knicks game at MSG on the 3rd of January, and it's the second game of a b2b, I'm in a quandary about whether I should cut my losses and sell, sell, sell or if I should gut it out and hope for the best.

[koriwhat]

Or it might be smarter if he just walked away from it altogether.

which i wish he would, the league, the game, etc... gtfo adolph stern!

[FromWayDowntown]

1. What scares me about this situation is that the last time the entire NBA universe was wholly against Stern on his reaction to something, it was the spring of 2007 following a Robert Horry hipcheck. As was documented at length in this forum, his reaction to that was unpopular but was consistent with established rules and precedent, no matter how unpopular. I guess we'll find out whether Stern's lack of concern for being unpopular against the winds of the blogosphere or his insistence that "the law" be followed is greater. Maybe they're equal.

2. It's baffling to think, assuming for a moment that Pop gets suspended for a game or two, that Pop's decision in this instance warrants a punishment that is relatively similar to the punishment that the league just handed out to Rondo, a noted recidivist in instigating physical confrontations, for a brawl that spilled over into the stands. Putting fans in physical danger is, I guess, about the same as costing a fan the opportunity to see Tim Duncan on television.

[Mel_13]

Au contraire, mon ami, You have no evidence/proof that it doesn't.

I didn't claim or imply any relationship, you did. I'll leave the rest alone. You're entitled your opinions, unsubstantiated though they may be.

[Mel_13]

Coincidentally, I have tickets to the Spurs/Knicks game at MSG on the 3rd of January, and it's the second game of a b2b, I'm in a quandary about whether I should cut my losses and sell, sell, sell or if I should gut it out and hope for the best.

I mentioned elsewhere that my daughter now lives in NY and we decided that I would schedule a visit that could include a Spurs game. The fact that the games against the Knicks and Nets were both part of b2bs factored into our decision to see them play in Philly.

[Creation88]

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2383/popax.jpg

in conjunction with other thread

[polandprzem]

Players should be paid for a game and performance, with season salary base at low amount.

[polandprzem]

Pop not gonna give a damn for now. He can't control what Stern gonna do.

[Creation88]

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2560/pollqr.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/pollqr.jpg/)

[biskvito]

Spurs organization should lawyer up and make some noise

[Seventyniner]

I must be the only one who thinks this is one huge troll job by Stern. Last night, a friend told me about Stern's comments and I thought he was joking. Then I saw Stern's quote on the pregame show. I think this is all one big prank and that Stern will do nothing because he never planned to do anything.

Of course, if Stern comes out and says he was kidding, he can backpedal his way out of those comments whether he was kidding or not.

[lefty]

if stern wants to play babyshit games i'm sure pop would be happy to have them tip off, call timeout, and then have them sit. that would make a real mockery out of the fucking game...
:lol

[cantthinkofanything]

if stern wants to play babyshit games i'm sure pop would be happy to have them tip off, call timeout, and then have them sit. that would make a real mockery out of the fucking game...


:lol

That is funny as hell to think about. But I think that is exactly what Pop would do if Stern put in some kind of guidelines for these situations. I sure don't agree with a lot of his coaching decisions but I do like the fact that he's not going to kowtow to Obama.

[CaptainLate]

fuck Stern. they should've looked at the proposed schedule before making it official.

David "Khazar" Stern is an a/h. He knows damn well Pop's recent history re: b2b. With Miami sitting on their asses for several days, Stern should have :wakeup looked at the schedule and switched the Orlando-Miami dates.

But now the stupid jackass has put his foot in his mouth w/o thinking. He should have said "The league will discuss whether there should be any sanctions." Now he's committed...or he's going to have to embarrass himself by releasing a statement, "We determined that since there is nothing in the rules preventing what the Spurs did, there will be no sanctions." :bang

If he does fine the best sports franchise in the USSA, let's pray Peter Holt has the balls to fight it. :ihit Any sane judge/arbitrator will overturn said fine. Problem is, there are not too many sane people left in a society speeding its way to Hell.

And to hell with that Khazar Stern. Can't wait till that bastard goes. (Wonder if this jerk was part of the infamous "Stern Gang" (Google it).

[Obstructed_View]

It's funny how nobody gives a shit about the Spurs when they're playing exciting basketball. Nobody gives a shit about Tim Duncan when he's the best big man in the league. Nobody buys tickets to see the Spurs on the road. Nobody ever shows Spurs highlights. Suddenly everybody is so outraged that someone tried to deny them Spurs basketball.

[Mel_13]

Seems like a majority are siding with Pop and the Spurs.

[boutons_deux]

Suddenly everybody is so outraged that someone tried to deny them Spurs basketball.

Not deny Spurs basketball, but deny audience rating to advertisers who paid the Stern extra for this specific game between top teams. I'd like to see the predicted and actual audience ratings. It's all about revenue, not about basketball quality.

Of 2000 of 2500 games/season, this one was actually not in the 2000 shitty, meaningless, boring, no-effort games.

[Hoops Czar]

I mentioned elsewhere that my daughter now lives in NY and we decided that I would schedule a visit that could include a Spurs game. The fact that the games against the Knicks and Nets were both part of b2bs factored into our decision to see them play in Philly.

Yeah, I hear ya. I bought two club gold tickets for $515 a piece on stub hub. I'm not sure if I got ripped off or not but thought they were priced about right at the time. I'm making the journey from Buffalo, watching the ball drop, and staying through til the 5th. I figure it's going to cost me a pretty penny by the time it's all said and done. God, I hope the Spurs don't tank.

[Drom John]

Seriously the worst head of any major sport in history.

I guess you don't think the NHL is a major sport.

[FromWayDowntown]

Not deny Spurs basketball, but deny audience rating to advertisers who paid the Stern extra for this specific game between top teams. I'd like to see the predicted and actual audience ratings. It's all about revenue, not about basketball quality.

Of 2000 of 2500 games/season, this one was actually not in the 2000 shitty, meaningless, boring, no-effort games.

I understand the point, but that concern is inconsistent (logically) with the annual lament that the Spurs are a ratings killer on national television and that the league is better off when the Spurs exit the playoffs before the Finals. If nobody watches the Spurs, then what difference does it make who plays for them in a nationally televised game. Nobody watches, right?

[FromWayDowntown]

That game at MSG is a 4th game in 5 nights for the Spurs (and the 5th game in 7 nights).

[Obstructed_View]

Not deny Spurs basketball, but deny audience rating to advertisers who paid the Stern extra for this specific game between top teams. I'd like to see the predicted and actual audience ratings. It's all about revenue, not about basketball quality.

Of 2000 of 2500 games/season, this one was actually not in the 2000 shitty, meaningless, boring, no-effort games.

I don't know where you were when ESPN had story after story about how the Spurs killed the ratings for the finals that were on their parent network. I guarantee you that based on the way they're treated, the Spurs aren't drawing "extra" for "this specific game" based on anything other than to be a victim for the Heat. The Spurs were served up by the league and the TV networks as Christians to feed to the lions on national TV. Good for Pop to tell them to fuck off.

[Obstructed_View]

I guess you don't think the NHL is a major sport.

Or the NFL. Or MLB.

[polandprzem]

It's funny how nobody gives a shit about the Spurs when they're playing exciting basketball. Nobody gives a shit about Tim Duncan when he's the best big man in the league. Nobody buys tickets to see the Spurs on the road. Nobody ever shows Spurs highlights. Suddenly everybody is so outraged that someone tried to deny them Spurs basketball.


haha good point

[timvp]

For comedic purposes, I wouldn't mind Stern coming down hard on the Spurs (of course, nothing overboard like taking away draft picks or anything like that). If he does something big, he won't just be the NBA commissioner, he'll become the head coach of the all the coaches in the league. From then on, if any coach ever sits a player for any purpose, Stern should -- by the newly set precedent -- get involved.

Do it, Stern. I dare ya.

[FromWayDowntown]

For comedic purposes, I wouldn't mind Stern coming down hard on the Spurs (of course, nothing overboard like taking away draft picks or anything like that). If he does something big, he won't just be the NBA commissioner, he'll become the head coach of the all the coaches in the league. From then on, if any coach ever sits a player for any purpose, Stern should -- by the newly set precedent -- get involved.

Do it, Stern. I dare ya.

I think the problem is that there's a substantial likelihood that Stern comes down hard here (having thrown a fit last night about this) and then chooses -- for any number of reasons -- to publicly call this a one-off situation and his explain his reaction to it to be a warning that sufficed to curb perceived abuses, such that he never does anything about it again.

You're absolutely right about the nature of the slippery slope he's creating for himself if he gets too involved here, but he can avoid that with some tortured logic.

[Mel_13]

The Spurs were served up by the league and the TV networks as Christians to feed to the lions on national TV. Good for Pop to tell them to fuck off.

This is why I find any mention of "integrity of the game", "quality of the product for the fans", or any other such nonsense so laughable. If the league gave one tiny, little damn about any of that the Spurs would have been off on Wednesday night.

[Obstructed_View]

There's simply no way Stern can impose any kind of punishment. What he has to do is admit that he reacted emotionally and spoke too soon.

[bklynspursfan]

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/479729_170656546413430_1388361033_n.jpg

[polandprzem]

That kind of disadvantages all teams must to deal with

[FromWayDowntown]

That kind of disadvantages all teams must to deal with

True. But you'd have to admit that it's really unusual for the media -- and particularly ESPN -- to even note that disparity. Particularly when it's advantageous to the media darlings, whose failures tend to be rationalized far more than their successes are ever explained by anything other than their "greatness."

[Mugen]

There's simply no way Stern can impose any kind of punishment. What he has to do is admit that he reacted emotionally and spoke too soon.

that'd be the final sign of the apocalypse tbh.

[polandprzem]

True. But you'd have to admit that it's really unusual for the media -- and particularly ESPN -- to even note that disparity. Particularly when it's advantageous to the media darlings, whose failures tend to be rationalized far more than their successes are ever explained by anything other than their "greatness."

That's why it got so much attention.
Stern said too much. Then they looked at the schedule and found out that Pop had a reason for his actions. And Pop is a coach. So he can play whoever he wants.

Then liberal ppl came into play and all that river with 'media darling' flowing faster.


Let's see what Stern gonna do.
If he will fine Pop it's gonna be a disaster and whole a lot different game will start in NBA

[ace3g]

San Antonio vs. Stern: Making Sense of the Spurs' Benching Controversy


http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2012/1130/grant_g_stern1_sy_640.jpg&w=640&h=360


There are at least three competing incentives at work in David Stern’s pending punishment of the Spurs for resting Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, and Danny Green on Thursday in Miami — a punishment that will surely top out at a fine, since any non-monetary penalty would be ridiculous.

1. The Spurs’ incentive to win a title. There is no proof Gregg Popovich’s long-standing practice of giving his key cogs an occasional night off furthers this goal, and as Kevin Pelton of Basketball Prospectus (http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=976) put it late last night, Popovich’s general night-to-night minutes management likely has a far larger impact than these total off nights on the relative spryness of his old folks come May and June. Learning semi-definitive things about health, fatigue, and injuries is the next frontier in sports research, and we are about 5 percent of the way there. It’s impossible to prove that the off nights help or somehow hurt San Antonio’s long-term fatigue prognosis, but there is evidence that overplaying guys in the regular season can hurt a team’s title chances. The information is murky on all fronts, but it’s hard to blame Popovich for trying anything he and the team’s very smart staff believe might give the Spurs a half-percent greater chance of winning a fifth ring.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/43832/san-antonio-vs-stern-making-sense-of-the-spurs-benching-controversy

[Embedded]

I think he reacted as a fan, not as the commissioner. In private, he might even admit that. As commisioner, there is no disputing that his announcing sanctions against the Spurs prior to the game was a bad decision, that announcement should have waited until AFTER the game. It likely impacted the game, and could have waited. That seemed like something DeMarcus Cousins would do, not the NBA Commissioner

1) If the Spurs had actually won that game, he would have looked like an incredible idiot. And they almost won. It was still one hell of a nailbiter and that in and of itself is causing him problems today;
2) Last year the NBA lauded him for the same types of decisions. Resting his players like he does allows his bench players to develop. Like that block by James Anderson on Mike Miller last night? Our big game is against Memphis, I think his decision put us in a better position to win that game. Isn't that what he is supposed to do? THis was the NBA's reaction to his decisions last year:

Spurs' Popovich named Coach of the Year By Official release
Posted May 1 2012 3:06PM
NEW YORK -- San Antonio's Gregg Popovich is the recipient of the Red Auerbach Trophy as the 2011-12 NBA Coach of the Year, the NBA announced today.
Popovich, who also earned the honor in 2002-03, totaled 467 points, including 77 first-place votes, from a panel of 119 sportswriters and broadcasters throughout the United States and Canada. Coaches were awarded five points for each first-place vote, three points for each second-place vote and one point for each third-place vote. The award was tabulated by the independent accounting firm of Ernst & Young LLP.

[rascal]

They should have played. They had a day off on Tuesday and had a short flight from Orlando. They are getting paid millions. What would our bosses think if we told them we were too tired to work since we worked 4 days in a row? I know the bosses were the ones who made the decision but the question is still the same.

[DesignatedT]

They are getting paid millions. What would our bosses think if we told them we were too tired to work since we worked 4 days in a row? I know the bosses were the ones who made the decision but the question is still the same

Does not make sense.

[timvp]

They should have played. They had a day off on Tuesday and had a short flight from Orlando. They are getting paid millions. What would our bosses think if we told them we were too tired to work since we worked 4 days in a row? I know the bosses were the ones who made the decision but the question is still the same.
rascal's own keyboard debunked his own point.

[Mel_13]

Does not make sense.


rascal's own keyboard debunked his own point.

Beat me to it.

[polandprzem]

Does not make sense.
It does in a way.


But boss in this case IMO is POP and RC not NBA