Why this year may be different: Defense

[timvp]

The San Antonio Spurs have garnered the top seed in the Western Conference in each of the last two seasons. Regrettably, as the world knows, neither successful regular season campaign translated into an NBA championship -- or even a trip to the Finals.

This season, with a quarter of the schedule in the books, the Spurs are once again atop the West. However, there is reason to think this year may be different and not simply a replay of the last two campaigns. That reason is the return of an elite defense.

Coming into this season, the Spurs had regressed defensively for nine consecutive years. The decline has been gradual but also irrefutable. In recent campaigns, the Spurs have adjusted to their increasingly porous defense by concentrating more on the offensive end. Statistically, the Spurs have sported the best offense in the NBA over the last two seasons.

Unfortunately, San Antonio has been reminded (quite harshly, in fact) that a great offense can only take a team so far without a sturdy defensive backbone to rely on when the going gets tough. Coming into this season, head coach Gregg Popovich and the rest of the coaching staff made it priority No. 1 during training camp to regain that defensive mettle. To date, the results are encouraging.

Currently, the Spurs are tied for fourth in the NBA in points allowed per 100 possessions (also known as defensive rating) at 100.6. But it’s even better than that: Before the start of the garbage time fourth quarter against the Charlotte Bobcats on Saturday night in which they surrendered 35 mostly uncontested points, the Spurs had actually moved up into second place in the league in this category.

2012-13 Defensive Rating
http://www.spurstalk.com/dchart1.png

It should also be noted that the Minnesota Timberwolves have faced the league’s easiest schedule and the Chicago Bulls have faced the third easiest schedule. The Spurs, on the other hand, have faced the NBA’s eighth toughest schedule -- and that doesn't factor in the road-home inequality of their schedule. In other words, it’s reasonably safe to state that the Spurs have been the league’s second best defensive team so far this season.

As it stands, the 100.6 defensive rating represents a defense that is 4.23% better than league average. The chart below points to the significance of that amount.

Percentage Better than League Average Defense
http://www.spurstalk.com/dchart2.png

The Spurs haven’t been this good defensively since the 2008 campaign. While San Antonio has boasted some great defensive teams over the years, this squad compares favorably to the 2003 championship team. Additionally, the Spurs right now are better defensively than the last four NBA champions and seven of the previous eight teams that made the Finals.

The next logical question: Why are the Spurs better defensively this season even though they brought back virtually the same roster from last year?

As with most things in San Antonio, it begins with the Big Three. The defensive improvements brought upon due to the rejuvenation of Tim Duncan don’t need much explanation. He’s currently posting career-highs in blocks per minute, steals per minute and defensive rebounds per minute. That’s simply astounding for a 36-year-old.

But don’t overlook Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili. Parker has been mentally engaged on the defensive end all season. Over the first 21 games, opponents are only putting up a 13.9 PER against him -- Parker's best showing since the championship seasons.

Ginobili’s defensive advanced metrics thus far are mindboggling. Coming off of a lackluster season on this end of the court, the Argentine has turned it around -- and then some. Opponents have an unbelievably low 9.0 PER against him. To prove that’s not a fluke, consider this: The Spurs have a 96.3 defensive rating when Ginobili is on the court and a 105.4 defensive rating when he’s on the bench.

Add it up -- Duncan's revival, Parker’s concentration and Ginobili’s crushing of the opposing bench – and the team’s defensive improvements aren’t as much of a mystery.

I recently conversed via email with someone associated with the Spurs in an attempt to dig deeper on this very subject. I was told the coaches specifically focused on two defensive areas leading up to the regular season. One was defending the three-point line and the other was being more physical.

In reviewing game tape, I’ve noticed how the Spurs have borrowed a few defensive principals from the Chicago Bulls of recent years. The Bulls under Tom Thibodeau have been extremely successful on defense mostly by eliminating open three-pointers -- particularly in the corners. They’ve led the league in fewest three-pointers allowed each of the last two seasons and the result has been a top-two placement in defensive rating both seasons.

This year, the Bulls are again leading in that category. However, as you can see in this chart, the Spurs are second.

Three-Pointers Allowed Per Game
http://www.spurstalk.com/dchart3.png

Historically in the Popovich era, the Spurs have been good at limiting three-pointers. But the last two years, the Spurs were 11th and 7th, respectively, in fewest three-pointers allowed. To combat that slippage, the Spurs have subtly altered from where they send double-teams and how they defend pick-and-rolls. The outcome up until now has been positive.

An increase in physicality is more difficult to measure -- but not impossible. Last season, the Spurs averaged 17.3 fouls per game. That number is up 4% this year to 18.0. Last season, the Spurs allowed .168 free throw attempts for every field goal attempt. This year, that number is up 10.1% to .185. Also, steals are up 10.8% and blocks are up 13.6%.

During training camp, the Spurs brought in Jerry Sloan and one can securely assume that Pop picked his brain regarding how to best teach the virtues of physical play. Sloan was one of the most physical players to ever play the game and his Utah Jazz teams never shied away from laying the lumber. While the Spurs haven’t gone all the way to becoming a physically imposing squad, there has definitely been movement in that direction.

Subjectively, the San Antonio’s perimeter players are picking up sooner and more aggressively. The bigmen are fighting for position in the paint earlier in the shot clock. The Spurs are also rarely doubling off of three-point shooters while simultaneously avoiding the open lanes to the rim they had been allowing the previous few seasons by being a touch more physical. Overall, there hasn’t been a drastic change or a eureka moment defensively, but rather slight modifications to the gameplan that when combined have allowed today’s Spurs to better defend how today’s offenses operate.

Can the defensive improvements continue to succeed for the duration of the season? That’s the $250,000 question. While it’s probably impossible for the Big Three to continue their torrid defense for 61 more games and the playoffs, perhaps their unavoidable slippage can be negated by the return of Kawhi Leonard and Stephen Jackson in addition to the a continued team-wide mastery of the new defensive philosophies.

I can’t blame Spurs fans for their cynicism at this stage of the regular season. Around these parts, many a great win-loss record has ultimately proven to be more style than substance as of late. But, so far, this year is different. The winning formula of here and now is reminiscent of formulae that resulted in nearly a handful of rings. Maybe it all unravels before the finish line. Maybe it doesn’t. That hope, for the first time in a while, has a backbone.

[weebo]

I think Tim Duncan's resurgence has a lot to do with the quality of the defense this year.

[Darius Bieber]

Not only that, the defense as of late has been AMAZING considering the past few years. Not only that, it has been done without the Spurs' best perimeter defender, Leonard.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Excellent write up as always timvp

How much credit would you give the improved defense to greater minutes from SJax (though he's been injured lately, but didn't join the team till the final third of last season) as well as more minutes for Tiago being paired with Duncan? Could the lack of Bonner also be helping since the rotations have been tweaked a little bit from this year when compared to last.

[superbigtime]

Good stuff, thank you. The step up in team D has been noticeable, but I haven't really appreciated the physicality aspect except for what seems to be a renewed intensity in rebounding. It seems that the usual culprits of weak D are still there, naming DeJuan and Neal and Bonner in particular, but the latter two have noticeably stepped up their D. Neal is no longer the outright liability he was before and he fights through screens better than previous seasons. Looks promising.

[Seventyniner]

Not only that, the defense as of late has been AMAZING considering the past few years. Not only that, it has been done without the Spurs' best perimeter defender, Leonard.

Looks like Manu is the best perimeter defender according to opposing PER.

[Obstructed_View]

I think Tim Duncan's resurgence has a lot to do with the quality of the defense this year.

I don't know that the quality of his defense has gone up that dramatically, but his health and subsequent ability to play more minutes during the first three quarters is huge.

[JRHernandez88]

Great post and thanks for all the info. The game against the Grizzlies is when I noticed our philosophy changed a bit. I felt like I haven't seen us grind out a game like that in a longgg time. It's good to see Pop is back preaching his old ways and focusing on that side of the floor again. Now if we can just match an improved defense with last years offense... :lobt2:

[Obstructed_View]

Memories of hearing Pop say "we just need to make more baskets" for all those years still makes me sick to my stomach.

[timvp]

I think Tim Duncan's resurgence has a lot to do with the quality of the defense this year.

Definitely. While he's really defending the rim well, his biggest improvement is probably in regards to defending pick-and-rolls. The added quickness that has helped his offense so much is just as helpful when it comes to dealing with pick-and-roll sets. Teams haven't been able to exploit him much this year, which is definitely a change from the last couple seasons.

[Richie]

It's clear the acquisitions of Kawhi and Jax are the reason we are focusing on defence again. The last few years we just haven't had the players to do it.

The difference between Bogans/Jefferson and Kawhi/Jax on the wings should be enough to understand why Pop went for an attacking team and why he has subsequently reverted back to defence.

[timvp]

Looks like Manu is the best perimeter defender according to opposing PER.

Last season, I spent much of the regular season whining about Ginobili's defense -- or lack thereof. But this year he's been good on that end. I don't know if he's been as good as his advanced metrics suggest ... but he's been pretty darn ferocious on D so far.

I think part of it is that he becomes so enraged when things don't go right for him on the offensive end (missed shot, turnover, etc) that this year's relative struggles on O have really energized his D. For example, that recent game in which he had six turnovers and shot poorly, he made up for it by swiping six steals in addition to numerous other defensive plays. Hopefully he keeps this level of destruction once his offensive games comes all the way back.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

Excellent work.

[Solid D]

timvp, your analysis and post is so good, this thread should be syndicated!:tu

[Bruno]

But don’t overlook Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili. Parker has been mentally engaged on the defensive end all season. Over the first 21 games, opponents are only putting up a 13.9 PER against him -- Parker's best showing since the championship seasons.

Ginobili’s defensive advanced metrics thus far are mindboggling. Coming off of a lackluster season on this end of the court, the Argentine has turned it around -- and then some. Opponents have an unbelievably low 9.0 PER against him.

You had to be really careful when you look at opponents stats on 82games.com. They are just using boxscores and assuming that the PG defends the opposite PG, the SG defends the opposite SG...

For Parker, this stat might be accurate because he almost always defends the opposite PG.
For Ginobili, I would be way more skeptical because they are tons of cross match-ups between SG and SF.

Using the mysynergy stats seems way more reliable.



An increase in physicality is more difficult to measure -- but not impossible. Last season, the Spurs averaged 17.3 fouls per game. That number is up 4% this year to 18.0.

This increase can be solely put on Bonner. Last season, Bonner was one of the least foul prone bigman in the history of the NBA. This year, he plays less and when he play, he fouls way more.

[Cry Havoc]

This team already has a different feel to it than the past few years.

Long road to go yet but I think we're going to be right there all year. Would be nice to nab the #1 seed and let Memphis and OKC beat on each other for 7 games.

[Bruno]

For reference, the man to man defensive stats coming from mysynergysports.com:

Points allowed per play:
Joseph: 0.50
Jackson: 0.65
De Colo: 0.70
Anderson: 0.74
Leonard: 0.83
Parker: 0.86
Green: 0.87
Neal: 0.89
Mills: 0.91
Ginobili: 0.95

Diaw: 0.73
Splitter: 0.77
Blair: 0.82
Bonner: 0.82
Duncan: 0.88

[Mugen]

Guarding the PnR is still going to be a major issue when going up against OKC/Mem. Marc Gasol was torching us with the pick n pop when we played this season and we all remember what Ibaka did to us in the WCF.

I'm hoping a 37yo Duncan can hold up in the playoffs and not get exploited but i just don't see how he keeps up this type of mobility all season long.

The onus is going to be pressuring the passer and weak-side help but i think it's just really going to come down to the Ibaka/Gasols of the West missing good looks because i think they're going to be there during the playoffs.

[Mel_13]

Thanks for the writeup. I've been following the improvement in the defensive numbers for a couple of weeks, but the source of the improvement hasn't been obvious to me. I appreciate the insights, especially with regard to the specific areas of emphasis from training camp.

[Brunodf]

For reference, the man to man defensive stats coming from mysynergysports.com:

Points allowed per play:
Joseph: 0.50
Jackson: 0.65
De Colo: 0.70
Anderson: 0.74
Leonard: 0.83
Parker: 0.86
Green: 0.87
Neal: 0.89
Mills: 0.91
Ginobili: 0.95

Diaw: 0.73
Splitter: 0.77
Blair: 0.82
Bonner: 0.82
Duncan: 0.88

So Duncan and Ginobili are the worse defensive players?

[smackdaddy11]

timvp, your analysis and post is so good, this thread should be syndicated!:tu

He is. It'll just be under some ESPN coach writers name.

What would the irony be if a title in 2013 is due to Jerry Sloan's help? How many Spur fans wanted him and the entire Jazz team's head on a pole in the 90's.

[spurs10]

timvp, your analysis and post is so good, this thread should be syndicated!:tu
:toast

[timvp]

You had to be really careful when you look at opponents stats on 82games.com. They are just using boxscores and assuming that the PG defends the opposite PG, the SG defends the opposite SG...

For Parker, this stat might be accurate because he almost always defends the opposite PG.
For Ginobili, I would be way more skeptical because they are tons of cross match-ups between SG and SF.I agree that the stat in itself loses value for Spurs swingmen because Pop sees those two positions as interchangeable. And it's especially iffy for Ginobili since Pop will usually try to rest him on the least potent opposing swingman.

However, that's why I included those on-off stats. When both of those numbers are fantastic, it'd take quite a fluke for both numbers to be randomly great.

I don't think Ginobili has been as amazing as those pair of metrics suggest but I do think he's been a lot better than last season. And at times, mostly when he's pissed about his offense, he does become the beast that is suggested.


Using the mysynergy stats seems way more reliable.I think Synergy stats should definitely be part of the equation when doing a comprehensive breakdown of a player's defense. Although, those numbers are also prone to not exactly tell the truth. For exactly, according to Synergy, Bonner has been one of the best bigmen defenders of the last half decade (if not the best). Subjectively, we just know that's not the case.

With those Synergy numbers, the more you avoid fouling, avoid playing help defense and avoid getting involved in transition defense, the better your Synergy stats will be. That's the perfect storm that has made Bonner appear to look like David Robinson and it's also why it's difficult to use it on Ginobili since he never shies away from getting involved in any type of play.

[Bruno]

So Duncan and Ginobili are the worse defensive players?

Not really because this stat doesn't fully reflect the quality of the man to man defense and because man to man defense is just a part of the defense.

[DesertSpur50]

TD, Manu and Kawhi are always gonna bring it defensively. However, I feel he team as a whole has given in to Pop's defensive ideology. Sure TD's resurgence is a huge factor but Tiago is also being more physical and aggressive on defense (and offense for that matter). Also, the two most unlikely duo, Neal and Bonner, have also shown they are not as much of a liability on D as they've been in recent years. Boris is also a pretty good defender but has yet to show it constantly this season though he has looked fine these past few games.

[crc21209]

Nice write up timvp. I've been impressed with the D so far this year as well. Most of it has to be because of Timmy and him turning back the clock. I've noticed that him, Tiago, and even Bonner have been more physical under the basket in the paint. I've also liked the perimeter D as opposed to the perimeter D of the past couple of years. :tu Like others have said, it's going to come down to if the Spurs can sustain this level of play all season and into the playoffs. I think they'll be able to keep it up for the most part, but we'll just have to wait and see..

[dylankerouac]

Great post Timvp. If the team keeps it up not only will it become habit, it will become part of who they are. Most encouraging sign of the season so far.

[TD 21]

Coming into this season, the Spurs had regressed defensively for nine consecutive years. The decline has been gradual but also irrefutable.

Well, yeah, but it's important to note that it's virtually impossible in this day and age to defend at the level they were defending at in the mid aughts.

Whether they slip significantly, less so or not at all, I do think they'll remain their best defensive team since '08, but that's not necessarily saying much.

For all the nuanced areas and incremental individual improvement you've mentioned, as I said in my far less detailed thread about the defense a few weeks ago, it's all about Duncan. If he can maintain this level of mobility, then they'll continue to defend at or close to this level, but if his mobility regresses to where it was before his resurgence last season, the defense will fall apart again.

[Bruno]

However, that's why I included those on-off stats. When both of those numbers are fantastic, it'd take quite a fluke for both numbers to be randomly great.

Yeah, the on-off stat looks great. I'm just not sold at all on the other having some kind of meanings.

More generally, a big change compared to last year is how much the bench is better defensively. While the bench was awesome offensively last season, they were bad too defensively.

The stat that shows it more is the on/off court stats for Duncan:
2011/2012:
With Duncan: 100.9 points allowed by 100 possessions.
Without Duncan: 107.1 points allowed by 100 possesions.
2012/2013:
With Duncan: 102.1 points allowed by 100 possessions.
Without Duncan: 100.7 points allowed by 100 possesions.

[Mel_13]

Yeah, the on-off stat looks great. I'm just not sold at all on the other having some kind of meanings.

More generally, a big change compared to last year is how much the bench is better defensively. While the bench was awesome offensively last season, they were bad too defensively.

The stat that shows it more is the on/off court stats for Duncan:
2011/2012:
With Duncan: 100.9 points allowed by 100 possessions.
Without Duncan: 107.1 points allowed by 100 possesions.
2012/2013:
With Duncan: 102.1 points allowed by 100 possessions.
Without Duncan: 100.7 points allowed by 100 possesions.

Splitter/Diaw >> Splitter/Bonner

[jesterbobman]

One of the interesting things to me at the quarter pole is that the Spurs have been so good, but two of their strengths of the last few years have been more average. Last year, the Spurs were 1st in both 3% and Defensive Rebounding %. This year, they are 10th in 3% (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct)

and 13th in DRR. (http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defReboundRate)

The fact that the offense is so good at a lower 3 point clip, and defense so good despite relatively poor rebounding is a good sign.

[timvp]

Well, yeah, but it's important to note that it's virtually impossible in this day and age to defend at the level they were defending at in the mid aughts. Disagree. The Celtics of the last two seasons have been >6% better than league average each season, which is comparable to what the Spurs did. Thus, it's not accurate to say "virtually impossible" when the Celtics are doing just that.


Whether they slip significantly, less so or not at all, I do think they'll remain their best defensive team since '08, but that's not necessarily saying much.IMO, the key is staying somewhere north of 4% better than league average. Recent champions show that you're in good shape if that's where you can be.


For all the nuanced areas and incremental individual improvement you've mentioned, as I said in my far less detailed thread about the defense a few weeks ago, it's all about Duncan. If he can maintain this level of mobility, then they'll continue to defend at or close to this level, but if his mobility regresses to where it was before his resurgence last season, the defense will fall apart again.Duncan is definitely part of the equation. But the improvement of the bench, as Bruno indicated above, is also a very important piece of the puzzle.

It'd be erroneous to ignore what Duncan is contributing, however it'd be just as wrong to pretend he's doing it all by himself right now.

[Brunodf]

One of the interesting things to me at the quarter pole is that the Spurs have been so good, but two of their strengths of the last few years have been more average. Last year, the Spurs were 1st in both 3% and Defensive Rebounding %. This year, they are 10th in 3% (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct)

and 13th in DRR. (http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defReboundRate)

The fact that the offense is so good at a lower 3 point clip, and defense so good despite relatively poor rebounding is a good sign.

More stops= you will give up more offensive rebounds, the low 3pt% is due Manu, Green, Neal slow start

[Mel_13]

One of the interesting things to me at the quarter pole is that the Spurs have been so good, but two of their strengths of the last few years have been more average. Last year, the Spurs were 1st in both 3% and Defensive Rebounding %. This year, they are 10th in 3% (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct)

and 13th in DRR. (http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defReboundRate)

They've gone from the mid-20s to 13th in DRR in the last three games. Over 80% in each of those games.

[TD 21]

Disagree. The Celtics of the last two seasons have been >6% better than league average each season, which is comparable to what the Spurs did. Thus, it's not accurate to say "virtually impossible" when the Celtics are doing just that.

I meant in terms of sheer numbers. Nobody holds the opposition to 88 ppg, 40% shooting, etc., anymore.


IMO, the key is staying somewhere north of 4% better than league average. Recent champions show that you're in good shape if that's where you can be.

Interesting. Keep us posted every few weeks on where they are in relation to the league average.


Duncan is definitely part of the equation. But the improvement of the bench, as Bruno (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2449) indicated above, is also a very important piece of the puzzle.

It'd be erroneous to ignore what Duncan is contributing, however it'd be just as wrong to pretend he's doing it all by himself right now.

True, but I still maintain that if he falls, the defense falls with him. No amount of incremental improvement from anyone else is going to change that.

[timvp]

I meant in terms of sheer numbers. Nobody holds the opposition to 88 ppg, 40% shooting, etc., anymore.Apologies. If that's what you meant, you're right. No team will ever touch those numbers posted by the 1999 and 2004 Spurs.


True, but I still maintain that if he falls, the defense falls with him. No amount of incremental improvement from anyone else is going to change that.Agreed. Duncan is still the anchor of the defense. If he falls off a cliff at some point (which could happen given his age), no amount of smoke nor mirrors will be able to camouflage that turn of events.

[Seventyniner]

One of the interesting things to me at the quarter pole is that the Spurs have been so good, but two of their strengths of the last few years have been more average. Last year, the Spurs were 1st in both 3% and Defensive Rebounding %. This year, they are 10th in 3% (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/offense-per-game/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct)

and 13th in DRR. (http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defReboundRate)

The fact that the offense is so good at a lower 3 point clip, and defense so good despite relatively poor rebounding is a good sign.

I'm not sure the numbers can answer a question like this, but I'm curious about it all the same.
Is it better to be 10th in defensive efficiency and 1st in defensive rebounding rate, or 4th in defensive efficiency and 13th in defensive rebounding rate?

Obviously the same question can be asked with other rankings. I suppose the latter is better in this case, because defensive efficiency is what it's all about (and encompasses all points allowed, including second chance points).

[freetiago]

interesting stat brought up in the nba.com power rankings

"Last season, the Thunder scored 5.3 points per 100 possessions more than the league average. This season: 9.2, making them the best offensive team since the 2003-04 Mavericks. On Sunday, they rolled through the Pacers' defense, which ranked No. 1 before the game started. The only teams that have held them under a point per possession are the Spurs and ... the Pistons."

the removal of Dick and the benching of Blair for Diaw until recently have to contribute some to the improvements
id imagine if blair was phased out completely we could easily be a top 2-3 team
I know Diaws defense was very good at the begining of the season and his individual post defense vs back to the basket type players is also really good
stephen jackson and diaw were part of the 2010 bobcats team under larry brown that was one if not the best defensive team in the nba

I still dont feel like the spurs are a good defensive team though from watching them
more like the rest of the league is just worse then we are
but im hoping it keeps up
If the spurs could improve the offball screen and pick and roll defense then we could easily be the top defense statistically
and if we had a thibodeauesque coach who ran our starters into the ground during garbage time we probably would be the #1 defense statistically

[timvp]

Excellent write up as always timvp

How much credit would you give the improved defense to greater minutes from SJax (though he's been injured lately, but didn't join the team till the final third of last season)That's a difficult question to answer. First of all, he's definitely been an improvement to "He Who Shall Not Be Named" defensively. Advanced stats say he was 1.4 points per 100 possessions better instantly last season and another 1.1 points per 100 possessions this season on top of that.

However, raw on-off stats say the Spurs are better this season defensively when Jack has been on the bench. But that doesn't tell the whole story because:

1) He's played a lot of small ball power forward. Traditionally, the Spurs score a lot in small ball but they also give up a whole lot of points. To be fair to Jack, you'd have to take into account that even if they are slightly worse with him at PF, it's not as bad as they have been traditionally in small ball alignments.

2) He mostly played early in the season and it's only been the last week or two that the bench has really stepped up defensively (namely Tiago Splitter). We'll have to wait to judge him once he gets back and plays with the newly energized bench.

Basically, we can say that Jack has been a help on the defensive end compared to HWSNBN but how much of a help can not be quantified as of yet.


as well as more minutes for Tiago being paired with Duncan?That has definitely helped. Per 48 minutes, the Duncan/Splitter pairing is allowing only 89.8 points per 48 minutes. The rest of the time, the Spurs have allowed 94.9 points per 48 minutes.

And I'd argue that the helpfulness of that duo is even greater than those numbers suggest since we remember what happened last year when Duncan/Splitter wasn't an option. I don't think Bynum's 300 rebounds in one game has to be restated.


Could the lack of Bonner also be helping since the rotations have been tweaked a little bit from this year when compared to last.I think a lack of Bonner in the regular season won't change much because he's always been a decent to slightly above average defender in the regular season. However, the biggest difference will come in the playoffs where Bonner routinely gets exposed. If Pop can ready his team to go to battle without leaning on Bonner at all, that should result in sturdier postseason defense.

[td4mvp21]

I'm curious about the defense. I thought it would have fallen off by now after a few good showings in the first 5 games or so. To compare to last season:

2011-2012 opponent FG%, first 21 games: .4596 (my own math so it's subject to error)
2012-2013 opponent FG%, first 21 games: .433 (per NBA.com)

That's a very noticeable improvement.

I think it's also important to note that the Spurs finished last season at .452 in that statistic (per ESPN), so they really didn't deviate too much from what they started with. But I'm not sure if that's the norm for them or if last season was a standout.

I hope it stays. If so, they'll have both an elite offense and elite defense. They've never had that combination in the Duncan era.

[timvp]

I'm not sure the numbers can answer a question like this, but I'm curious about it all the same.
Is it better to be 10th in defensive efficiency and 1st in defensive rebounding rate, or 4th in defensive efficiency and 13th in defensive rebounding rate?

Obviously the same question can be asked with other rankings. I suppose the latter is better in this case, because defensive efficiency is what it's all about (and encompasses all points allowed, including second chance points).Yeah, you answered your own question. The most basic equation for the number of possessions in a game is (FTA * .44) + FGA + TO - ORB ... so offensive rebounds basically continue a singular possession. Thus, as you said, it's all about the points allowed per possession.

But, hypothetically, if the Spurs can continue improving their defensive rebounding rate, their defensive rating will also improve since most every team scores more points per possession following an offensive board.

[Mel_13]

I'm curious about the defense. I thought it would have fallen off by now after a few good showings in the first 5 games or so. To compare to last season:

2011-2012 opponent FG%, first 21 games: .4596 (my own math so it's subject to error)
2012-2013 opponent FG%, first 21 games: .433 (per NBA.com)

That's a very noticeable improvement.

I think it's also important to note that the Spurs finished last season at .452 in that statistic (per ESPN), so they really didn't deviate too much from what they started with. But I'm not sure if that's the norm for them or if last season was a standout.

I hope it stays. If so, they'll have both an elite offense and elite defense. They've never had that combination in the Duncan era.

06-07 Spurs were 2nd in defense and 5th in offense.

[Old School 44]

Duncan resurgence has been key, but I think it's due to having a full camp focused on D, and players maturing around him, namely Tiago. Just the fact he's part of the regular rotation, tall and mobile is something Duncan hasn't had next to him in awhile. I've said it before, the best way to keep Duncan fresh for the season and the playoffs, is putting him next to a big that's not a defensive liability, where Duncan has to exert extra energy to cover for him.

[timvp]

More stops= you will give up more offensive reboundsDRR is a percentage. It naturally accounts for the added opportunities for the opposition to grab offensive boards.


I'm curious about the defense. I thought it would have fallen off by now after a few good showings in the first 5 games or so. To compare to last season:

2011-2012 opponent FG%, first 21 games: .4596 (my own math so it's subject to error)
2012-2013 opponent FG%, first 21 games: .433 (per NBA.com)

That's a very noticeable improvement.

I think it's also important to note that the Spurs finished last season at .452 in that statistic (per ESPN), so they really didn't deviate too much from what they started with. But I'm not sure if that's the norm for them or if last season was a standout.

I hope it stays. If so, they'll have both an elite offense and elite defense. They've never had that combination in the Duncan era.

Great work on the comparison :tu

By your numbers, the Spurs 5.8% better in terms of opponents field goal percentage from this point last season. That's a pretty huge improvement. Good find.

For the record, the closest the Spurs have been to elite on both ends was either 2001 (1st defensively, 6th offensively) or 2007 (2nd defensively, 5th offensively). Right now, the Spurs are 5th offensively and 4th defensively. The offense is trending upward and I doubt it'll drop out of the top five. Top two is probably doable as long as the health is there. So if the defense can remain top five, that'd be great.

[td4mvp21]

06-07 Spurs were 2nd in defense and 5th in offense.

I wondered about that after I posted. Thanks.

[Uriel]

Great read. Thanks for the write-up. :tu

Now watch the Rockets systematically dismantle the Spurs' defense and make this thread the laughingstock of the evening.

[Splits]

This fantastic writing is why we're addicted to ST, LJ. Thanks.

[playblair]

:lobt:

[timvp]

Now watch the Rockets systematically dismantle the Spurs' defense and make this thread the laughingstock of the evening.

:lol Yeah, I'm ready for the Rockets to put 115 points on 90 possessions just to destroy all the good work.

[DesignatedT]

Thought this was interesting as well:

278293830485291009

[racm]

Thought this was interesting as well:

278293830485291009

Interesting... the 2009 Lakers were 3rd in ORth, 6th in DRtg, and 5th in Pace. They finished with 65 wins and the :lobt:

[sventhedog]

so where are the stats posted by timvp from?

that fatigue or injury possibilities will always be there.

another thing is a good record might conceal the fact that the spurs could use another athletic bigman. blair and bonner can disappear anytime in the playoffs.

[superjames1992]

Jinx thread, tbh.

[timvp]

Jinx thread, tbh.
Per par, unfortunately :cry :lol :cry

[midnightpulp]

Per par, unfortunately :cry :lol :cry

Still holding the Rockets to 40% shooting. Pace of this game is just wild.

Spurs do got to limit the 2nd chance points, though. 8 offensive boards for the Rockets.

[Brunodf]

Timvp with the ultimate jinx thread

[therealtruth]

Memories of hearing Pop say "we just need to make more baskets" for all those years still makes me sick to my stomach.

[therealtruth]

This team already has a different feel to it than the past few years.

Long road to go yet but I think we're going to be right there all year. Would be nice to nab the #1 seed and let Memphis and OKC beat on each other for 7 games.

That's what we did last year and it didn't work out so well. The path of least resistance isn't always the best past. Winning a tough series can sometimes energize you. I am not saying don't go for the top seed but focus more on getting better.

[DesignatedT]

Memories of hearing Pop say "we just need to make more baskets" for all those years still makes me sick to my stomach.

Everything Pop does makes you sick. You've made that perfectly clear for awhile now.

[DPG21920]

Appreciate the write up. I always love when data actually backs up the logic/eyeball test as well. It feels more likely to be sustainable that way. Spurs have two very much improved defensive big men (Tim/Tiago) that just so happen to beast on the offensive end as well. Then when you factor in our other guys the perimeter defense should be improved (TP has been a very good defender, we know Manu can be extremely disruptive, Jax can guard multiple spots, Danny is very effective at times...).

Even guys like Gary Neal have massively improved - a guy like that to me is probably not sustainable but even without that, as long as the core guys (Tim, TP, Tiago, Manu, Green, Jax, Kawhi) can defend I don't see any reason why the Spurs can't be a top 6-7 team defensively for the entire year.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

:lol Yeah, I'm ready for the Rockets to put 115 points on 90 possessions just to destroy all the good work.

:wow

It's happening

[Andthentherewas21]

Thread jinx

[mando6599]

So much for defense, timvp! Give up 126 against a Harden-less Rockets team! HA!

[DesignatedT]

Gameplan: Let Rockets shoot 3s.

Rockets: Hit 16 threes

[BillMc]

Jinx or not, it's an excellent write up

[timtonymanu]

rofl just bad timing overall with this thread.

I'm still impressed with the defense despite today's strange game.

[racm]

It's evident that Pop trusts the defense more this season. Had this been a game last season the Spurs would have lost.

[td4mvp21]

FG% was good at least :lol

[SequSpur]

good write up, but the spurs don't play defense...half of the nba teams just really suck balls...

[racm]

good write up, but the spurs don't play defense...half of the nba teams just really suck balls...

By that same logic the Bulls don't play D either.

[timvp]

:lol Yeah, I'm ready for the Rockets to put 115 points on 90 possessions just to destroy all the good work.

The Rockets ended up scoring 126 points on 117 possessions. Actually, the jinx wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be :lol

[SequSpur]

By that same logic the Bulls don't play D either.

the bulls suck balls.

[racm]

The Rockets ended up scoring 126 points on 117 possessions. Actually, the jinx wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be :lol

Works out to a DRtg of 107.6. I'll take the hit to the Spurs' defensive rating on the season but every successive game has less of an impact on the overall defense.

The Rockets just play very fast like the SSOL Suns, except they lack an elite finishing big.

[capek]

As I was sitting in the stands watching tonight's game, I kept thinking about this thread, and how the Spurs were screwing up Timvp's good work by not chasing guys off the three point line! :bang

Man it was painful to watch the Rockets get so many wide open threes all night; hopefully this turns out to be a one game aberration.

[MR-Clutch]

I think it is also helping that Tim and Tiago are getting more court time together and have figured out how to co-exist on the offensive end. Other than that it seems that Tiago has been a pretty solid anchor for us when he's in there with the bench. I remember last year our defensive rating dropped like crazy when Duncan left the floor. When Tiago was on the floor last year the team gave up 104.6 points per 100 possessions and when he was off the court they gave up 103.6 per 100 possessions. This year when hes been on the floor the team has given up 100 points per 100 possessions and when hes been off the court this year, the team has given up 102.1 per 100 possessions. I know its not a major difference but it definitely helps the spurs overall D.

[Budkin]

Damn now I'm starting to feel hope that the Spurs can win one more title. It hurts so much more when they don't!

[Seventyniner]

Thought this was interesting as well:

278293830485291009

MK Bower does NBA too? That guy is awesome, and I loved it when he covered the Rice Owls. Too bad the Owls don't deserve a beat writer of his stature.

[024]

i know the stats say otherwise (before this game anyways) but i've noticed that the spurs give up a lot of open 3 pointers, and not just this game. so i was definitely surprised by that 3 point allowed ranking. the opposing players just aren't making any of them even though they are wide open. i think the stats will eventually average out and reflect my observation.

[Danny.Zhu]

Great read.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Great write-up. :tu

A word of caution though: often the first 20 games of the season are just teams learning how to play with each other, and they get a lot more cohesive from now on. I hope we keep up this defensive pace, but I'll wait until the end of Jan to work out whether it's a mirage or not.

[Fireball]

Great write-up. :tu

A word of caution though: often the first 20 games of the season are just teams learning how to play with each other, and they get a lot more cohesive from now on. I hope we keep up this defensive pace, but I'll wait until the end of Jan to work out whether it's a mirage or not.

But thats a double-edged sword because the Spurs also get to know the opponent better each time they play them and are able to avoid mistakes they made in earlier games. But I doubt we will be able to hold OKC under 100 points next time ... the first time they were still suffering from Harden trade hangover ...

[exstatic]

Great write-up. :tu

A word of caution though: often the first 20 games of the season are just teams learning how to play with each other, and they get a lot more cohesive from now on. I hope we keep up this defensive pace, but I'll wait until the end of Jan to work out whether it's a mirage or not.

We're doing this without our best two perimeter defenders.

[therealtruth]

That has definitely helped. Per 48 minutes, the Duncan/Splitter pairing is allowing only 89.8 points per 48 minutes. The rest of the time, the Spurs have allowed 94.9 points per 48 minutes.

And I'd argue that the helpfulness of that duo is even greater than those numbers suggest since we remember what happened last year when Duncan/Splitter wasn't an option. I don't think Bynum's 300 rebounds in one game has to be restated.


I would like to see TD/Splitter start and Manu start to make the offense work. That would give you the best defense combined with the best offense.

[Obstructed_View]

Everything Pop does makes you sick. You've made that perfectly clear for awhile now.

No idea how to even respond to something that's so asinine.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He is. It'll just be under some ESPN coach writers name.

What would the irony be if a title in 2013 is due to Jerry Sloan's help? How many Spur fans wanted him and the entire Jazz team's head on a pole in the 90's.

Count me in!

[Fabbs]

More generally, a big change compared to last year is how much the bench is better defensively. While the bench was awesome offensively last season, they were bad too defensively.
Bruno,
CIA Poop was quoted the last two seasons as saying we just didn't have the players to defend like before.
Are you seeing better effort from the exact same players or?
It can't all be put on the benching of Pops love bone Bonner, so who exactly is stepping up their game?
How much is SJaxs non-pussy/non conformist attitude rubbing off on others and helping bring back the D?
Could Parkers ceasing and desisting from hanging around rap pussies off the court be helping him focus on the court?

[freetiago]

Tonight "exposed" spurs lack of a good pick and roll defense
i think the nba has moved towards a heavy pick and roll league
all the top teams run it as the #1 option
duncan still isnt mobile enough to hang with the younger kids so the defense needs to be switched for a standard man to man or switch
i think the spurs should try to trap
miami and the 76ers both do this without a true center and they are good defensive teams
only problem i see is that the spurs dont have the athletes to recover and it could lead to open 3s if the pass is made
but linsanity got destroyed last year because of miamis aggressive defense that lead to lins turnovers
i know spurs in the clippers series would hedge pauls picks with leonard and it gave them a lot of sucess
but part of it was griffins inability to do anything but dunk

[Cry Havoc]

Tonight "exposed" spurs lack of a good pick and roll defense
i think the nba has moved towards a heavy pick and roll league
all the top teams run it as the #1 option
duncan still isnt mobile enough to hang with the younger kids so the defense needs to be switched for a standard man to man or switch
i think the spurs should try to trap
miami and the 76ers both do this without a true center and they are good defensive teams
only problem i see is that the spurs dont have the athletes to recover and it could lead to open 3s if the pass is made
but linsanity got destroyed last year because of miamis aggressive defense that lead to lins turnovers
i know spurs in the clippers series would hedge pauls picks with leonard and it gave them a lot of sucess
but part of it was griffins inability to do anything but dunk

It exposed nothing. We were without two of our larger wing players who can play a hard hedge to stop the PNR. Who do you think is easier to set a pick against -- Gary Neal, or Stephen Jackson?

So yeah. The Spurs shortcomings on defense when we are without two of our most physical wings are gone is not indicative of our team level defense for this season. I'm guessing 3s are going to also be a little harder to shoot over when it's a 6'8" guy in your face instead of Neal, not to mention the steals that KL brings to the table on D.

[Uriel]

Looks like even Pop has taken notice.


It doesn’t necessarily require a Ph.D in advanced mathematics to be an NBA coach in 2012.But when the Spurs’ staff of paid number-crunchers presents Gregg Popovich with the daily statistical updates on the state of his team, it can certainly feel that way.

“It’s almost like integral calculus,” Popovich said.

The numbers often confirm what Popovich’s old-school eye has been telling him over the first two months of the season.

“We’re significantly better on defense than we were the last couple of years,” Popovich said. “That’s something we hope will continue as the season progresses, and not just be a blip.”

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/12/27/new-math-highlights-spurs-defensive-resurgence/

[racm]

Looks like even Pop has taken notice.



http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/12/27/new-math-highlights-spurs-defensive-resurgence/

The keys to the better D? Changing the rotations subtly. Tiago now starts with Tim so TD doesn't have to cover for an undersized PF. Kawhi has been given free reign as a help defender and a disruptor of passing lanes. He Who Must Not Be Named is no longer on the team.

[Uriel]

The Spurs' new and improved defense strikes again.

[Brunodf]

:lol

[timvp]

The Rockets had 110 possessions. Obviously giving up 116 points isn't good but giving up 116 on 110 possessions isn't too horrible against a hot team. Especially since the Rockets got a lot of junk points late.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

We played at their pace for most of the night, which was an interesting decision. Still outscored them. ;)

[timvp]

We played at their pace for most of the night, which was an interesting decision. Still outscored them. ;)

Spurs and Rockets are the two fastest paced teams in the NBA. (I never thought I'd type that sentence. :lol) When these two teams meet, it's going to be an extremely fast game. The Spurs never slow it down anymore and the Rockets are even faster ... so it's an inevitability that there will be 100+ possessions.

[racm]

The Rockets had 110 possessions. Obviously giving up 116 points isn't good but giving up 116 on 110 possessions isn't too horrible against a hot team. Especially since the Rockets got a lot of junk points late.

Works out to an offensive rating of 105.4, which while subpar isn't anything to cry over.

[Buddy Holly]

Spurs and Rockets are the two fastest paced teams in the NBA. (I never thought I'd type that sentence. :lol) When these two teams meet, it's going to be an extremely fast game. The Spurs never slow it down anymore and the Rockets are even faster ... so it's an inevitability that there will be 100+ possessions.

I remember not too many years ago it was the exact opposite. Spurs/Rockets games would be lucky if both teams scored 150 combined.

[SpursIndonesia]

I remember not too many years ago it was the exact opposite. Spurs/Rockets games would be lucky if both teams scored 150 combined.

LOL, Yao - Van Gundy slugfest against 4down SA. :D

[polandprzem]

The sentence that the spurs are not going to slow down is not encouraging visualizing the playoffs

[racm]

The sentence that the spurs are not going to slow down is not encouraging visualizing the playoffs

Except the Spurs still play good defense even in a slow-down game. In points allowed per possession they're top 5 or 6.

[team-work]

Maybe I'm asking for too much. If they win with fast-paced offense and at the same time limit the opponent to low FG% or points per 100 possessions, then I would say they are true contenders.

[polandprzem]

When I see spurs winning with top dogs regularly I'm gonna have a new hope for the spurs

[silverblackfan]

Spurs and Rockets are the two fastest paced teams in the NBA. (I never thought I'd type that sentence. :lol) When these two teams meet, it's going to be an extremely fast game. The Spurs never slow it down anymore and the Rockets are even faster ... so it's an inevitability that there will be 100+ possessions.

That just sounds soo damn wrong. :lol

[pgardn]

I am still looking for that multipurpose shutdown guy... Bowen.

so much can be done off of this kind of player if we can protect the rim. I guess it's unfair to ask Leonard to be able to take on Dirk, Paul, and Lebron during the last minutes of a close game. But one can hope.

[exstatic]

Maybe I'm asking for too much. If they win with fast-paced offense and at the same time limit the opponent to low FG% or points per 100 possessions, then I would say they are true contenders.

That's why that stat is used. It's pace neutral.

[Bruno]

Spurs are now at 101.5 points allowed by 100 possessions and are still the 4th best defensive team in the league. this drop should be put on Spurs 3 point defense fading.

Spurs being 2nd in pace doesn't mean that they are one of the team playing the quickest in the league. In Spurs games, there are very little offensive rebounds on both ends of the court (Spurs are the 27th offensive rebounding team and the 7th defensive rebounding team). As a result, there are few possessions extended by an offensive rebound in Spurs games which lead automatically to more possessions by game. So, even if Spurs are 2nd in Pace, they aren't a run and gun team.

[Kidd K]

Works out to an offensive rating of 105.4, which while subpar isn't anything to cry over.

Yep, solid point. 105 is only a little bit worse than what would be a nice number to shoot for. Maybe only 2 baskets worse at best.

Spurs are actually still 4th in DRating even after that game. Only 2 points behind 1st. Though they are piled together with 3 other teams. 4th-7th are really close together by just 0.3 points. So they could be more like 7th than 4th after the next game. Still, being top 8 defense AND top 8 offense at the same time is exactly what you wanna see in your team.

Spurs are 5th in ORating and 4th in DRating right now. Looks very good considering our SF depth was destroyed for most of the season.

Only one team is better than us in both categories. Clippers are 4th and 3rd in the respective categories. . .though if you look at their last 16 games, it's almost all against awful teams. They've been padding their numbers against the bottom of the barrel. Faced only 2 teams over .500, and those were barely over .500. 2nd weakest schedule statistically in the NBA over their last 16 games.

[BillMc]

Spurs are now at 101.5 points allowed by 100 possessions and are still the 4th best defensive team in the league. this drop should be put on Spurs 3 point defense fading.

Spurs being 2nd in pace doesn't mean that they are one of the team playing the quickest in the league. In Spurs games, there are very little offensive rebounds on both ends of the court (Spurs are the 27th offensive rebounding team and the 7th defensive rebounding team). As a result, there are few possessions extended by an offensive rebound in Spurs games which lead automatically to more possessions by game. Spurs being 2nd in Pace doesn't mean they are a run and gun team.

Well said.

[spursmartyr]

Bump

5 point quarter for the Nets :lmao

[Brunodf]

Bump.... Best defensive quarter since 2002-2003

[spursmartyr]

Bump.... Best defensive quarter since 1990s
No, we only gave up 3 points at home vs. the Nuggets in November 2002... you forgot already?

The NBA Tonight show on ESPN that night even had a picture of a brick wall that kept flashing whenever the Nuggets missed a shot in the first quarter... It was hilarious.

[Brunodf]

No, we only gave up 3 points at home vs. the Nuggets in November 2002... you forgot already?

The NBA Tonight show on ESPN that night even had a picture of a brick wall that kept flashing whenever the Nuggets missed a shot in the first quarter... It was hilarious.

I started watching the NBA in 2004-2005... Fixed

[spursmartyr]

I started watching the NBA in 2004-2005... Fixed
So what are you doing talking about the 1990s when you didn't start watching the NBA until the year we won our 3rd championship? :rolleyes

[Brunodf]

So what are you doing talking about the 1990s when you didn't start watching the NBA until the year we won our 3rd championship? :rolleyes

Well, i heard that defenses were better back in 1990s, before the rules changes...

[capek]

Why this year may be different: Defense

Subtitle #2: A Duncan/Splitter/Leonard Line up

We only have a few games for a sample size, at the competition has been pretty dreck, but my cynicism is starting to break that there might be a pretty damnn good defensive lineup to be gotten out of this team. We'll have a couple good tests coming up, should be fun to see if they can keep it up.

[Darkwaters]

Subtitle #2: A Duncan/Splitter/Leonard Line up

We only have a few games for a sample size, at the competition has been pretty dreck, but my cynicism is starting to break that there might be a pretty damnn good defensive lineup to be gotten out of this team. We'll have a couple good tests coming up, should be fun to see if they can keep it up.

The Knicks game looks like it would be a good test. But being the 4th game in 5 nights (one of those nights being new years), I have a feeling we'll be underwhelmed.

[capek]

The Knicks game looks like it would be a good test. But being the 4th game in 5 nights (one of those nights being new years), I have a feeling we'll be underwhelmed.

Definitely. With the way Melo is playing, Kawhi's 1on1 D will get it's first big test post injury. And hopefully Tiago can maintain some physicality against Chandler.

[spursmartyr]

Definitely. With the way Melo is playing, Kawhi's 1on1 D will get it's first big test post injury. And hopefully Tiago can maintain some physicality against Chandler.

Yeah, it's pretty imperative that we beat them, because getting swept by an Eastern team like the Knicks would be a major stain on the season


(Don't tell that to the 2003 Spurs, either).

[racm]

The Knicks game looks like it would be a good test. But being the 4th game in 5 nights (one of those nights being new years), I have a feeling we'll be underwhelmed.

Pop might rest the big 3 then. :lol

A Duncan/Splitter/Leonard starting frontcourt reminds me of the old Lakers, only with Leonard being a younger, far more sane version of Artest. Diaw plays like Odom in that he's a passing big man. Of course, Splitter is a much better passer than Bynum and has two good knees.

[therealtruth]

Definitely. With the way Melo is playing, Kawhi's 1on1 D will get it's first big test post injury. And hopefully Tiago can maintain some physicality against Chandler.

I wonder if Pop will keep the big lineup even though the Knicks like to play Carmello at the 4.

[racm]

I wonder if Pop will keep the big lineup even though the Knicks like to play Carmello at the 4.

The Knicks give up rebounds with their small lineup. Keeping Melo out of the paint is the Spurs' best tactic, though the Knicks have two guys who like to shoot midrange.

[ElNono]

Not liking the inconsistency, tbh... looks like we take 2 steps forward, then take a step back... Unfortunately, Green looks like he's stuck in the defensive progression, and Neal just really hurts any defensive scheming. Splitter can have great games, then kinda look weak out there. It's still January, but I was hoping the team would solidify what they've been doing last month.

[Ice009]

The Knicks give up rebounds with their small lineup. Keeping Melo out of the paint is the Spurs' best tactic, though the Knicks have two guys who like to shoot midrange.

Too bad Tiago is a piss poor rebounder. He can't seem to grab any rebounds. He's weak on the boards too often for my liking. He needs to rebound much better on the defensive end and go up stronger on the offensive end. Those are my main two problems with him, and he needs to improve in both of those areas by the end of the season. At times he was playing like a pansy against the Knicks.

More physicality and more toughness is required by him.

[Brunodf]

Too bad Tiago is a piss poor rebounder. He can't seem to grab any rebounds. He's weak on the boards too often for my liking. He needs to rebound much better on the defensive end and go up stronger on the offensive end. Those are my main two problems with him, and he needs to improve in both of those areas by the end of the season. At times he was playing like a pansy against the Knicks.

More physicality and more toughness is required by him.

Agree but i thought that he was playing well against the Knicks

[rascal]

This team is not different. It is the same team as last year.

[rascal]

Too bad Tiago is a piss poor rebounder. He can't seem to grab any rebounds. He's weak on the boards too often for my liking. He needs to rebound much better on the defensive end and go up stronger on the offensive end. Those are my main two problems with him, and he needs to improve in both of those areas by the end of the season. At times he was playing like a pansy against the Knicks.

More physicality and more toughness is required by him.

He is a soft big who is not aggressive on the boards. That is what he is. He doesn't have the quickness nor jumping ability and doesn't bang under the glass and fight for rebounds so don't expect much in that area from Splitter.

[mystargtr34]

Spurs are up to 4th in defensive rating at 98.5 points allowed per 100 possessions. Pretty impressive number compared to the last 5 or so seasons.

[hater]

I would like to believe the defense is better this year. But unfortunately this year the quality of the bottom 25 teams in the league has dropped so much that defensive improvements could be due to just that. Its a horrendous league if you think about it, a handful of very good teams(maybe less than that) and the rest is a bunch of dogshit put together by a team of monkeys. I mean even the Mavs and Lakers are not there anymore. Celtics? nope. Even the Hawks are shittier this year.

shitty league thanks to Stern.

[Seventyniner]

Spurs are up to 4th in defensive rating at 98.5 points allowed per 100 possessions. Pretty impressive number compared to the last 5 or so seasons.

And according to basketball-reference.com's DRtg, the Spurs are sitting in 3rd going into tonight's games.

[therealtruth]

Spurs are up to 4th in defensive rating at 98.5 points allowed per 100 possessions. Pretty impressive number compared to the last 5 or so seasons.

I wonder if starting two seven footers has something to do with it.

[Mel_13]

I wonder if starting two seven footers has something to do with it.

It hasn't hurt, but the Spurs were already in the top 5 in defensive rating before Tiago was made a starter.

[freetiago]

Well i remember someone posting stats saying the tim-tiago pair had a Drtg of something around 80 pts per 100 possesions and a Ortg of something around 105 per 100
The defensive improvements have almost all come from probably the banishment of the turd towers and increase in tiago
also the increased rim protection from duncan
almost all the perimeter players actually seemed to regress on D
green is inconsistent
ginobili is terrible 1v1 and gambles too much
leonard is above average but still cant get around screens, become a lot better at playing passing lanes but his steals seemed to have died down when considering he was #2 in the league and could have given chris paul competition for #1 in the league

SA still needs to fix up the high pick and roll coverage and at least attempt to put some resistance on the mid range pop from the big
theres been a lot of games where the other team is scoring around 1/3-1/4 of their points of those shots on high percentages

[Bruno]

The starting unit of Parker/Green/Leonard/Duncan/Splitter is still a monster defensively allowing only 80 points per 48 minutes.

[Paranoid Pop]

The starting unit of Parker/Green/Leonard/Duncan/Splitter is still a monster defensively allowing only 80 points per 48 minutes.

That's encouraging regarding the decision of going away from a stretch PF, and Baynes should make the bench D better, Splitter is kinda weak at C this year.

That said if we're gonna play someone with no range next to Tim, I think we can do better than Tiago.

For some reason 82 games tells that the same lineup with Ginobili instead of Green is pretty bad, then again it tells that it rebounds very badly when there's no reason to, Manu being a better rebounder than Green this season at least so it might have everything to do with the small sample size and fatigue and or/for our bigs since it's more of a closing lineup...

[Slippy]

That's encouraging regarding the decision of going away from a stretch PF, and Baynes should make the bench D better, Splitter is kinda weak at C this year.

That said if we're gonna play someone with no range next to Tim, I think we can do better than Tiago.



well í gotta bad feeling POP will bench Tiago and start Boris on a more permanent basis.

He did it in the second half of the minny game and had already hinted "the spurs have been playing in a crowd" in regards to the amount of TO's the've been giving up of late.

Short sighted on POP if he makes the move.

[Bruno]

That's encouraging regarding the decision of going away from a stretch PF, and Baynes should make the bench D better, Splitter is kinda weak at C this year.

That said if we're gonna play someone with no range next to Tim, I think we can do better than Tiago.

A big question before this season was if Tim and Tiago could be paired and the results have been very positive.
When Tim and Tiago are paired, Spurs are scoring 104.3 points per 48 minutes while allowing 90.3 per 48 minutes. The sample size (315 minutes) start to be big enough to exclude being it a statistical fluke.

Regarding the bench, I doubt Baynes will play a lot of minutes. Splitter will still be the backup C which is fine for me. The bench biggest defensive issue is by far at the PG spot: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208086&page=2&p=6299617&viewfull=1#post6299617 .

[therealtruth]

well í gotta bad feeling POP will bench Tiago and start Boris on a more permanent basis.

He did it in the second half of the minny game and had already hinted "the spurs have been playing in a crowd" in regards to the amount of TO's the've been giving up of late.

Short sighted on POP if he makes the move.

Tiago can hit that mid range jumper Pop just needs to allow him to do it. He doesn't need to look for the shot but he needs to hit it occasionally to keep the defense honest.

[DesignatedT]

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Since Kawhi Leonard returned to starting lineup Dec. 23, the Spurs have had the NBA's best D. They held Dallas to 36.7 FG% in first half.