Shooting at elementary school

[cantthinkofanything]

Tragic. Don't know who the victims are but I hope it wasn't any children.

http://www.kltv.com/story/20345707/school-shooting-reported-in-newtown

[cantthinkofanything]

...

[Th'Pusher]

If only one of the children had a concealed carry licence this tragedy could have been avoided.

[Th'Pusher]

2 adults killed according to parent at school during the incident.

[boutons_deux]

yawn, another day in war-and-gun crazy USA, another mass murder

[JudynTX]

Over 100 rounds were shot, 27 dead. 10 were children.

[GoodOdor]

If only Darrins was there.....he could have stopped this:cry

[PublicOption]

I guess elementary schools kids will have to carry sidearms to protect themselves and make sure no one takes away their 2nd amendment rights.

[boutons_deux]

I guess elementary schools kids will have to carry sidearms to protect themselves and make sure no one takes away their 2nd amendment rights.

The NRA press release is breathlessly waited by the owner and financer, the guns-and-ammo industry.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

:cryToo bad there weren't any Tea Party Patriots! at that elementary school they would have prevented it:cry

:cryThe lack of gun rights for 6-10 year olds is why this happened:cry

[Lincoln]

If only Mingus was there, they needed his sharpshooting ability

[Clipper Nation]

Sad story, tbh.... shit like this is fucked up....

That being said, for all the snarky political comments about gun rights in here, I'll just point out that Connecticut is one of the strictest gun-control states in the nation....

[DarrinS]

Sad story, tbh.... shit like this is fucked up....

That being said, for all the snarky political comments about gun rights in here, I'll just point out that Connecticut is one of the strictest gun-control states in the nation....

yep.

Sad story. Also sad that people make dumbass political statements when the bodies are still warm.

EDIT> Wasn't saying yours was, clipper.

[Shastafarian]

yep.

Sad story. Also sad that people make dumbass political statements when the bodies are still warm.

EDIT> Wasn't saying yours was, clipper.

Because if there's one thing that could disgrace the memory of those killed, it's talking about how to prevent further killings in the future.

Edit: I guess it's possible you're only referencing the truly dumb comments but I feel like you'd be offended by any talk about gun laws.

[boutons_deux]

2nd Amendment!

Freedom!

Liberty!

Water the Tree of Liberty!

[George Gervin's Afro]

I have a child in elementary school. Pretty sad day today.

[Clipper Nation]

Because if there's one thing that could disgrace the memory of those killed, it's talking about how to prevent further killings in the future.

Well, clearly strict gun laws didn't prevent any killings this time...

[boutons_deux]

"strict gun laws didn't prevent any killings this time"

guns laws aren't strict in every state.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/how-to-guns.php

[Shastafarian]

Well, clearly strict gun laws didn't prevent any killings this time...

Strict compared to what?

[Clipper Nation]

"strict gun laws didn't prevent any killings this time"

guns laws aren't strict in every state.

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/how-to-guns.php
Connecticut is one of the strictest anti-gun states in the nation, they have a full-out assault weapons ban and require extensive training and background checks... schools and businesses are prohibited from allowing guns on the premises...

New Jersey, where the killer is from, is also one of the strictest anti-gun states in the nation... legal gun owners are restricted to one gun only, and there are also strict child safety laws and background checks... apparently, those laws aren't helping much, since Camden, New Jersey remains among the worst cities for murders, rapes, and robberies...

[SA210]

Horrible sad news. Just horrible, horrible, horrible. Fkn horrible.

Crazy though, The President murders over 200 little children himself, and thousands more innocents overseas for no reason with his current illegal drone program, but gives a speech on how killing 20 kids is wrong, and the people eat it up. I wish we cared about ALL children. smh

[ElNono]

I have a child in elementary school. Pretty sad day today.

What's sad is that you have children... /Yoni

[boutons_deux]

Connecticut is one of the strictest anti-gun states in the nation, they have a full-out assault weapons ban and require extensive training and background checks... schools and businesses are prohibited from allowing guns on the premises...

New Jersey, where the killer is from, is also one of the strictest anti-gun states in the nation... legal gun owners are restricted to one gun only, and there are also strict child safety laws and background checks... apparently, those laws aren't helping much, since Camden, New Jersey remains among the worst cities for murders, rapes, and robberies...

Getting runs is REAL HARD

http://www.bradycampaign.org/media/press/view/1468/

[PublicOption]

strict gun laws don't mean shit.
NO GUNS is what I mean. Get around that shit.
Guns don't kill people. Unpredictable crazy people with guns kill people faster and easier.

[SA210]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/9138_232960066837289_516253666_n.png

[coyotes_geek]

Pretty easy to tell who has kids and who doesn't from this thread.......

[boutons_deux]

Pretty easy to tell who has been suckered by NRA/gun industry/ALEC "2nd Amendment" bullshit.

[coyotes_geek]

Whatever.

Maybe one day you'll be a parent and will look at such tragedies as something different than an opportunity to spout of a bunch of rhetoric.

[baseline bum]

What if they were VRWC kids, b?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

What the fuck is wrong with people these days??? How fucked up does a person have to be to gun down 20 children between 5 and 10?? I don't usually cry over shit like this, but I've been holding back tears all fucking day. May that son of a bitch burn in hell if there is one.

[boutons_deux]

Hours After Connecticut Kindergarten Shooting, Michigan GOP Calls For Allowing Guns In Schools (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1339761/hours-after-kindergarten-shooting-michigan-gop-calls-for-allowing-guns-in-schools/)
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/20346052_SS-300x240.jpg


What happened in Connecticut, however, is not because of nor related in any way to actions taken by the Michigan House yesterday in approving Senate Bill 59. …

It is the belief of many representatives in our caucus that it is criminals who have no intention of following any law that are the perpetrators of such heinous crimes as school shootings. Strict gun-control laws do not stop criminals
from committing evil acts, they merely infringe on the rights of law-abiding citizens who might be able to take action against evil if given the chance.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1339761/hours-after-kindergarten-shooting-michigan-gop-calls-for-allowing-guns-in-schools/

:lol

[Drachen]

What the fuck is wrong with people these days??? How fucked up does a person have to be to gun down 20 children between 5 and 10?? I don't usually cry over shit like this, but I've been holding back tears all fucking day. May that son of a bitch burn in hell if there is one.

It wasn't emotionally affecting me really. I guess in my head it was just another school shooting, that we are just gonna have to get used to this because this is how its going to be. But I was listening to NPR in the car and it really hit me when they were interviewing some of the parents who were talking about how their kids had described the situation. THEN it hit me. I didn't full out cry but I almost had to pull over because my eyes were watering.

[coyotes_geek]

It wasn't emotionally affecting me really. I guess in my head it was just another school shooting, that we are just gonna have to get used to this because this is how its going to be. But I was listening to NPR in the car and it really hit me when they were interviewing some of the parents who were talking about how their kids had described the situation. THEN it hit me. I didn't full out cry but I almost had to pull over because my eyes were watering.

Right there with you. I just want to get home and hug my son.

[Drachen]

Right there with you. I just want to get home and hug my son.

I think that what really put me over the edge and just showed how innocent the kids were and how that is gone was the mom saying "my son said he was in the gym and heard a snapping sound. That's how he described it "a snapping sound", he had never heard a gun before."

[Juggity]

In 50 out of 60 cases of mass shootings, mass shooters obtain their guns legally.
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/)
What a goddamn travesty

[CosmicCowboy]

The good news is that another sick fuck just committed suicide.

(the bad news is pretty fucking obvious)

[Th'Pusher]

Right there with you. I just want to get home and hug my son.
How old is he? Will you talk to him about what happened?

[SA210]

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/67002_478998152143578_1704390768_n.jpg

[DMX7]

There is no problem that the proliferation of hand guns and assault rifles cannot solve.

[Richie]

I'm from the UK and eternally thankful that we don't allow civilians to carry guns. However, strict gun control (genuinely strict, not American "strict") didn't save 77 lives in Norway a couple years ago.

If people want to get guns, they will get them. You could ban guns outright in America tomorrow and these shootings would still continue. There are just too many guns in civilian hands, ban them and they will all go to criminals and will still be trivial to obtain for people like this.

It's a horrible situation the US has put itself in, of which there is no simple solution. Neither more guns or no guns will solve the problem, regardless of which each side of the argument says.

[Warlord23]

Washington Post article: 12 facts about gun violence in the US (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/)

There will always be outliers like the Norway case. However, the bottomline is that at an aggregate level, more guns = more deaths. And the majority are caused by legally procured guns.

Of course, like Richie said, the cat is out of the bag already. There are too many guns out there, so better get used to more stories like this.

[Richie]

You say Norway is an outlier, but I'm not sure I agree

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

A number of school shootings in Canada and Europe, and I doubt this is a comprehensive list either. While I believe the US are by far the worst offender, it strikes me as notable that other countries have similar attacks where gun laws are even stricter.

No doubt more guns = more deaths, but when referring to these kind of shootings I'm not sure if the correlation carries.

[Capt Bringdown]

The longest war: The shooting at a Connecticut school shows, once again, that there’s no end in sight to our lethal way of life (http://news.yahoo.com/the-longest-war--the-shooting-at-a-connecticut-school-shows--once-again--that-there’s-no-end-in-sight-to-our-lethal-way-of-life-233540096.html)

It is hard to pin down exactly when Americans made the collective decision that periodic massacres of the innocent are the price that we supposedly pay for our liberties.

The result is an America that no sane person of any political persuasion could have possibly wished for. Who in his right mind wants to live in a country where maybe twice a year a crazed individual guns down dozens of people in schools and theaters? There is no plausible remedy since we are neither going to disarm Americans nor are we going to pass out guns to elementary school teachers as a just-in-case precaution.

All we can do is mourn and mourn again. And think of the young children who died only because they went to school giggling over silly things and dreaming of recess. Such is the American way of life and, sadly, death.
- more -> (http://news.yahoo.com/the-longest-war--the-shooting-at-a-connecticut-school-shows--once-again--that-there’s-no-end-in-sight-to-our-lethal-way-of-life-233540096.html)

Not going to change in my lifetime, but that doesn't preclude a turn down the road. I doubt that Frederick Douglas expected change in his lifetime, nor the civil rights activists in the 1930's, etc...
You start from first principles and go from there.
You gotta put decades on the table.

[coyotes_geek]

How old is he? Will you talk to him about what happened?

He turns 3 next week, so too young to comprehend something like this.

[Th'Pusher]

He turns 3 next week, so too young to comprehend something like this.
Ya. Too young. I mentioned something to my 6 yr old daughter, just trying to be honest and explain what happened to the best of my ability and my wife freaked out. Wanted to keep her in the dark about the whole situation. I don't know, from my perspective honesty just seemed to be the best policy.

[Capt Bringdown]

We might look to how the Australians responded to 1996's Port Arthur massacre as a way forward.

[LnGrrrR]

He turns 3 next week, so too young to comprehend something like this.

Happy early birthday to him! My oldest just turned 3 a month ago.

[Nbadan]

There are more than 58,000 gunshops in the U.S....


There are, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (PDF), more than 58,000 gunshops in this country.

There are fewer than 20,000 Starbucks (PDF) in the whole world.

Jay Carney, the president's press secretary, said this morning that this isn't the time to talk about gun control.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/final-note/final-note-there-are-more-58000-gunshops-us

I wonder if the Texas wing-nuts will show up in mass to these victimized gun shops to buy guns tomorrow like with Chick fill a?

[Spurminator]

Gun sales always go up after incidents like these. I'm sure they'll be fine. Watch for a Smith & Wesson stock spike on Monday.

[spursncowboys]

Pretty disgusting to bring political jargon with the bodies not even cold yet. Classy as always DOK.

Coward+keyboard+sense of entitlement=DOK

IMO this one was shocking. Unlike other mass casualty shootings, the evil POS targeted children. I wanted to run and grab my kids out of school and just hug them.
I'm sickened thinking about these poor kids sitting there crying. It's great to hear of the teachers defending their children and not just thinking of themselves.

[Nbadan]

Pretty disgusting to bring political jargon with the bodies not even cold yet. Classy as always DOK.

Coward+keyboard+sense of entitlement=DOK

IMO this one was shocking. Unlike other mass casualty shootings, the evil POS targeted children. I wanted to run and grab my kids out of school and just hug them.
I'm sickened thinking about these poor kids sitting there crying. It's great to hear of the teachers defending their children and not just thinking of themselves.

:rolleyes

Notice how none of your talk-radio mouth-pieces called the school administrators or teachers 'heroes' today? Now go away...

[Wild Cobra]

There's an old saying. outlaw guns, and only the outlaws will have them.

[Capt Bringdown]

Again, The Onion fearlessly gets it right, as they do:


Right To Own Handheld Device That Shoots Deadly Metal Pellets At High Speed Worth All Of This
(http://www.theonion.com/articles/right-to-own-handheld-device-that-shoots-deadly-me,30742/?ref=auto)
“It’s my God-given right and a founding principle of this country that I be able to own a [piece of metal that launches other smaller pieces of metal great distances, one after the other], and if a few deaths here and there is the price we have to pay for that freedom, then so be it,” said Lawrence Crane of nearby Danbury, CT.

“Sure, it’s sad that a few kids died, but it’s far better than the tyranny that would result if the government came and took away all our [mechanical contraptions that make a lot of little pointy chunks of metal go through the air fast]. Can you even imagine what kind of horrible world that would be?”

So did Goya:
El sueño de la razón produce monstruos
The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
Francisco de Goya, 1799
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Goya_-_Caprichos_(43)_-_Sleep_of_Reason.jpg/410px-Goya_-_Caprichos_(43)_-_Sleep_of_Reason.jpg

[johnsmith]

yawn, another day in war-and-gun crazy USA, another mass murder

You're a fucking piece of shit man.

[Wild Cobra]

You're a fucking piece of shit man.
That's why I call him ShazBot. He's a shit bot. Ever see an episode of Mork and Mindy, and under what conditions Mork says shazbot?

Pilot episode:

6201WTSyidI

[spursncowboys]

:rolleyes

Notice how none of your talk-radio mouth-pieces called the school administrators or teachers 'heroes' today? Now go away...
What are you talking about? What did they say about it, Lexis Nexis?

You are such a terrible troll.

[PublicOption]

There's an old saying. outlaw guns, and only the outlaws will have them.

stupid arguement when all these idiots killing people where not considered "criminal" until it was to late to do something about it.

[Wild Cobra]

stupid arguement when all these idiots killing people where not considered "criminal" until it was to late to do something about it.
They likely would have killed with something else.

[Drachen]

He turns 3 next week, so too young to comprehend something like this.

I turn 33 next week!

[Wild Cobra]

I turn 33 next week!
I didn't know you were CG's son.

[Nbadan]

They likely would have killed with something else.

but not guns..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/firearm-OECD-UN-data3.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

but not guns..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/firearm-OECD-UN-data3.jpg
So what was the choice weapon for murder in these other countries, or are you going to cherry pick as usual?

[ElNono]

Too poor to buy guns... plus Afghanistan has proven you can fight with stones and spears and drive out the mightiest military power on earth...

[Nbadan]

One dressed up in goofy costumes to make her students smile.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/12/15/nyregion/VICTIM/VICTIM-articleInline.jpg



Another was a psychologist — preparing to retire — who had seen generations of students through their parents’ divorces and difficult days.

Dawn Hochsprung, the principal of Sandy Hook Elementary School, and Mary Sherlach, a school psychologist, were among the six adults killed at the school in the mass shooting on Friday, educators gunned down alongside the children they cared for as if they were their own.

Authorities did not release an official list of the victims’ names, but the other four were believed to be school staff members.

more ... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/nyregion/sandy-hook-principal-and-school-psychologist-went-the-extra-mile.html?hp&_r=0

[Nbadan]

He was dark and disturbed, a deeply troubled boy from a wealthy family who unnerved his neighbors and classmates. Mass murderer Adam Lanza, 20, was a ticking time bomb, people who knew him told the Daily News.

“This was a deeply disturbed kid,” a family insider told the Daily News. “He certainly had major issues. He was subject to outbursts from what I recall.” Lanza, who friends and officials said suffered from Asperger’s syndrome or a personality disorder, had a tortured mind.

...

Lanza’s strange behavior was well-known among his well-heeled neighbors in leafy Newtown, Conn. His antics irked several residents. “Adam Lanza has been a weird kid since we were 5 years old,” a neighbor and former classmate named Tim Dalton wrote on Twitter. “As horrible as this was, I can't say I am surprised . . . Burn in hell, Adam.”

...

Lanza was living with his devoted mother, Nancy, in the family’s four-bedroom, 3,100-square-foot estate. Nancy Lanza divorced Adam’s father, Peter, in 2008. Peter Lanza, now a vice president of taxes for GE Energy Financial Services, agreed to annual alimony payments that started at $240,000 and would have reached $298,800 in 2015.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/adam-lanza-20-deeply-disturbed-kid-article-1.1220752

[Nbadan]

A “longtime” family friend said Lanza had a condition “where he couldn’t feel pain.”

“A few years ago when he was on the baseball team, everyone had to be careful that he didn’t fall because he could get hurt and not feel it,” said the friend. “Adam had a lot of mental problems.”


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/adam-lanza-20-deeply-disturbed-kid-article-1.1220752

[Nbadan]

Amazing, horrifying, story from John Christoffersen and Jocelyn Noveck of AP about the mass murder of twenty five-to-ten-year-olds at the Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. Read the entire thing.

A first-grade teacher barricaded herself into a bathroom with 15 students. This is first grade, so we’re probably talking 5 and 6 year olds:


“I said, ‘There are bad guys out there now. We need to wait for the good guys,’” she told ABC News.

“The kids were being so good,” she said. “They asked, ‘Can we go see if anyone is out there?’ ‘I just want Christmas. I don’t want to die, I just want to have Christmas.’ I said, ‘You’re going to have Christmas and Hanukkah.’”

One student claimed to know karate. “It’s OK. I’ll lead the way out,” the student said.

http://americablog.com/2012/12/i-just-want-christmas-i-dont-want-to-die-i-just-want-to-have-christmas.html

“They told a little boy it was his sister who passed on,” Weiss said. “The boy’s response was, ‘I’m not going to have anyone to play with.’”

[Jacob1983]

Why is it that America can stop a dumbass from setting off a ghetto bomb in his underwear yet they can't stop little pussy peckers from shooting little kids? Is it possible that terror suspects are usually Middle Easterners while mass shooters are usually weird loner white guys? Anyone can be evil and anyone can carry out evil acts. It doesn't matter what you look like or where you come from.

[boutons_deux]

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Screen-Shot-2012-12-14-at-7.29.33-PM.png


Gun Advocacy Group Responds: ‘Gun Control Supporters Have The Blood Of Little Children On Their Hands’

“Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to insure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones. The only thing accomplished by gun free zones is to insure that mass murderers can slay more before they are finally confronted by someone with a gun.”

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1341111/gun-advocacy-group-responds-gun-control-supporters-have-the-blood-of-little-children-on-their-hands/

America The Beautiful, overflowing with ignorant, dickless, diseased fat fucks lead around by the nose the guns-and-ammo industry.

[Latarian Milton]

Why is it that America can stop a dumbass from setting off a ghetto bomb in his underwear yet they can't stop little pussy peckers from shooting little kids? Is it possible that terror suspects are usually Middle Easterners while mass shooters are usually weird loner white guys? Anyone can be evil and anyone can carry out evil acts. It doesn't matter what you look like or where you come from.
it's hard to figure out the evil minded motherfuckers among the vast population but the tragedy could've been prevented imho, i mean the gunner who killed 27 innocent people yesterday morning was known to have mental disorder and how the fuck could he get access to guns? certain groups of people are more likely to do crazy stuffs and the cops n government should always keep an eye on these people imho, a similar school massacre which happened in virginia tech a couple years ago, if i remember correct, was committed by a picklebreath lonely son of a bitch

[Latarian Milton]

people need to realize those immigrants (especially the yellow ones imho) and those fuckheads are more likely to do crimes n they may cause harm to other innocent people anytime, hence you should always keep an eye on these motherfuckers tbh

[DMX7]

So what was the choice weapon for murder in these other countries, or are you going to cherry pick as usual?

Potatoes?

[scott]

Good news, the Gun Owners of America has spoken!


Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, responded to the tragedy Friday evening:

Gun control supporters have the blood of little children on their hands. Federal and state laws combined to insure that no teacher, no administrator, no adult had a gun at the Newtown school where the children were murdered. This tragedy underscores the urgency of getting rid of gun bans in school zones. The only thing accomplished by gun-free zones is to insure that mass murderers can slay more before they are finally confronted by someone with a gun.

So there you go.

[scott]

Anyone have examples of Patriots with guns stopping these monsters when they go on these kind of rampages?

Post 'em here please.

[Wild Cobra]

Anyone have examples of Patriots with guns stopping these monsters when they go on these kind of rampages?

Post 'em here please.
There was an example some years back, but I don't remember where to find it.

[ploto]

Do people really think that some gym teacher with a gun all the way across the school can actually do anything when a guy uses a semi-automatic rifle to gun down people in seconds?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Anyone have examples of Patriots with guns stopping these monsters when they go on these kind of rampages?

Post 'em here please.

Tea Party Patriot George Zimmerman stopped Trayvon Martin from going on a rampage, but heartless liberals say he's a murderer when he's actually a hero. Who knows how many people Trayvon was gonna kill.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Tea Party Patriot George Zimmerman stopped Trayvon Martin from going on a rampage, but heartless liberals say he's a murderer when he's actually a hero. Who knows how many people Trayvon was gonna kill.
Sorry, I meant to say libtards (get it :lmao:lmao:lmao, cause they're retarded :lmao)

[boutons_deux]

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Screen-shot-2012-12-15-at-12.53.09-PM.png


http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/12/15/1341551/newspaper-runs-gun-ad-next-to-coverage-of-connecticut-shooting/

[Ashy Larry]

We might look to how the Australians responded to 1996's Port Arthur massacre as a way forward.


Ironically, the dude was from New Town, Taz. The fact that we're leading the way when it comes to bullets and guns is crazy. We have more gun violence than anyone in the world and we're the only country to use nuclear weapons, not once but twice, and will be quick to tell someone else that they can't have any.

I don't mind hand guns and rifles but assault weapons need to go. People bitch about our rights being taken away, well, we can't even control ourselves. It won't solve the problem because some fool will probably go into a school with a glock and just start unloading. This country was built and founded on violence and guns. This wasn't the first time and sadly, it won't be the last.

[boutons_deux]

all DC politicians are scared shitless of the guns-and-ammo industry and its marketing arm the NRA.

With apparently 300M guns already in USA, the horses are already out of the barn, which is now nothing but target practice for the gun fetishists and "patriots".

[Ashy Larry]

Too poor to buy guns... plus Afghanistan has proven you can fight with stones and spears and drive out the mightiest military power on earth...


Nono with the Hammer of Thor

[scott]

There was an example some years back, but I don't remember where to find it.

Oh yeah that one. Thanks.

[Nbadan]

The sister-in-law from (North Carolina, I think?) had made comments to local press about how the mother was a gun enthusiast and also a survivalist type, along the lines of some of the Doomsday Preppers out there. It's been stated that she was convinced that there was an imminent economic disaster on the horizon.

No article links, just exactly what was said on tv.....

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/50209477/

[Nbadan]

A Mother, a Gun Enthusiast and the First Victim
By MATT FLEGENHEIMER and RAVI SOMAIYA
Published: December 15, 2012 239 Comments


NEWTOWN, Conn. — Nancy Lanza loved guns, and often took her sons to one of the shooting ranges here in the suburbs northeast of New York City, where there is an active community of gun enthusiasts, her friends said. At a local bar, she sometimes talked about her gun collection.

It was one of her guns that was apparently used to take her life on Friday. Her killer was her son Adam Lanza, 20, who then drove to Sandy Hook Elementary School, where he killed 26 more people, 20 of them small children, before shooting himself, the authorities said.

Ms. Lanza’s fascination with guns became an important focus of attention on Saturday as investigators tried to determine what caused Mr. Lanza to carry out one of the worst massacres in the nation’s history.

Investigators have linked Ms. Lanza to five weapons: two powerful handguns, two traditional hunting rifles and a semiautomatic rifle that is similar to weapons used by troops in Afghanistan. Her son took the two handguns and the semiautomatic rifle to the school. Law enforcement officials said they believed the guns were acquired legally and were registered.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/nyregion/friends-of-gunmans-mother-his-first-victim-recall-her-as-generous.html?_r=0

[Nbadan]

This is Victoria. She died a hero

She hid her first graders in the cabinets and closets after hearing the gunfire. When the shooter came to her classroom, she told him that her students were in the gym. He then gunned her down and moved on. She saved the lives of all of her students. Please pass this on if you see it. She deserves to be remembered for her bravery.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/27893_10151178360515143_520083557_n.jpg

[Nbadan]

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/50cb9c5becad04c867000015-400-300/10182805.jpg


Multiple sources have told ABC News that Adam Lanza used a Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle at close range to kill children and adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut on Friday.

Two handguns were also found at the scene, and a fourth weapon was found nearby. The weapons discovered at the school apparently belonged to a family member, possibly his mother, according to authorities.

Lanza, 20, forced his way into Sandy Hook on Friday morning and killed 20 children and six adults before committing suicide. He drove to the school after shooting his mother in the face at their home.

The weapons that police recovered from the scene included a Glock 9-mm handgun, a Sig Sauer 9-mm handgun and a Bushmaster rifle. Police also found .223 shell casings. Lanza was wearing a bullet-proof vest.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/connecticut-shooter-adam-lanza-mothers-guns/story?id=17984499

[kamikazi_player]

http://www.ocregister.com/news/police-380819-area-island.html

This is getting ridiculous now. 50 shots fired near Macy's at the mall but thank god no one was killed. Lucky this asshole wasn't aiming for anyone, but dumb regardless.

[Nbadan]

Just devastating..


He said that he personally performed seven autopsies and those children had between three and 11 wounds each. Two of them were shot at close range, the others at a distance.

“This is a very devastating set of injuries,” Carver said. “I believe everyone was hit more than once.”

Read more: http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/15/15932666-newtown-victims-all-shot-multiple-times-with-rifle-chief-medical-officer-says

[Nbadan]

meet Victoria Soto....she also died a hero yesterday...

Teacher Victoria Soto threw herself in front of her students to save them at Sandy Hook Elementary School

http://www.bellenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Victoria-Soto-sacrificed-herself-to-save-her-students-throwing-her-body-in-front-of-the-young-children-350x226.jpg






http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/vicki-soto-sandy-hook-teacher-killed-while-protecting-students-31343544.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Fnews-26797925%252Fvicki-soto-sandy-hook-teacher-killed-while-protecting-students-31343544.html

[Nbadan]

Connecticut school shooting: parents reveal how teacher Kaitlin Roig saved their children's lives
The parents of two young children broke down in tears as they described how their son and daughter narrowly escaped being killed by a lone gunman. \\

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02429/Kaitlin-Roig_2429017b.jpg


He said Lauren's teacher, Kaitlin Roig, 29, had bravely attempted to protect her class by barricading the room with a bookshelf before ushering 14 children into a small bathroom.

There, the horrified 1st Grade pupils were told to remain quiet as the shooting continued. It was only much later, when a police had secured the school and an officer pushed his ID badge under the toilet door, that they knew their ordeal was over.

"I don't know how to face our other neighbours and friends who weren't so lucky," said Eric, who struggled to retain his composure as he spoke.

"I don't know what to say to them. It's a guilt you feel: I'm so happy that my kids came home but at the same time I feel terrible.

"We've heard, and our kids can't confirm this as they said they just heard static, that somebody either accidentally or intentionally clipped the PA system on when the trouble broke out in the classroom.

"That way it was being broadcast to the entire school so everybody heard the shooting, the yelling, the screaming."

His wife, a volunteer at Sandy Hook, said Lauren had been in the middle of a lesson when they heard a noise. Her brother had been in a fourth grade class at the back of the school.

"The teacher took them all into the bathroom, locked them in and told them they all had to be very quiet," she said.

"She reacted so fast. She crowded 14 of them in a tiny space and made them stand on the toilet. She got them all in there.

"After some time, when the police were in the building, they knocked on the door. The teacher said: 'You're going to have to show me some ID before I open this door,' and they slid a badge under. She acted very heroically. She was amazing."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9747774/Connecticut-school-shooting-parents-reveal-how-teacher-Kaitlin-Roig-saved-their-childrens-lives.html

[The Reckoning]

she's hot

[boutons_deux]

Time to move on.

the next mass murder will be arriving soon.

[boutons_deux]

61 in 30 Years: A Timeline of Mass Shootings in America

On Friday morning, 27 people were reportedly shot and killed [2] at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, CT. According to sources, 18 of these casualties were children. This is the second mass shooting in the US this week, after a gunmanopened fire [3] in an Oregon shopping mall on Tuesday, killing 2. ABC News reports that there have been 31 school shootings in the US since Columbine in 1999, when 13 people were killed.

The rate of people killed by guns in the US is 19.5 times higher [4] than similar high-income countries in the world. In the last 30 years since 1982, America has mournedat least 61 mass murders [5]. Below is a timeline of mass shootings in the US since the Columbine High massacre:

December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed [6] 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.

September 27, 2012. Five were shot to death [7] by 36-year-old Andrew Engeldinger at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, MN. Three others were wounded. Engeldinger went on a rampage after losing his job, ultimately killing himself.

August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed [8] when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.

July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people [9] and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.

May 29, 2012. Ian Stawicki opened fire [10] on Cafe Racer Espresso in Seattle, WA, killing 5 and himself after a citywide manhunt.

April 6, 2012. Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, shot [11] 5 black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in racially motivated shooting spree. Three died.

April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people [12] at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.

October 14, 2011. Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage [13] hair salon in Seal Beach, CA. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing.

September 6, 2011. Eduardo Sencion, 32, entered [14] an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, NV and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members.

January 8, 2011. Former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head [15] when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 total were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole.

August 3, 2010. Omar S. Thornton, 34, gunned down [16] Hartford Beer Distributor in Manchester, CT after getting caught stealing beer. Nine were killed, including Thornton, and two were injured.

November 5, 2009. Forty-three people were shot [17] by Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan at the Fort Hood army base in Texas. Hasan reportedly yelled “Allahu Akbar!” before opening fire, killing 13 and wounding 29 others.

April 3, 2009. Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire [18] at an immigration center in Binghamton, New York before committing suicide. He killed 13 people and wounded 4.

March 29, 2009. Eight people died in a shooting [19] at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison.

February 14, 2008. Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire [20] in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing 6 and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. It was the fifth-deadliest university shooting in US history.

February 7, 2008. Six people died and two were injured in a shooting spree [21] at the City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri. The gunman, Charles Lee Thornton, opened fire during a public meeting after being denied construction contracts he believed he deserved. Thornton was killed by police.

December 5, 2007. A 19-year-old boy, Robert Hawkins, shot up [22] a department store in the Westroads Mall in Omaha, NE. Hawkins killed 9 people and wounded 4 before killing himself. The semi-automatic rifle he used was stolen from his stepfather’s house.

April 16, 2007. Virginia Tech became the site of the deadliest school shooting [23] in US history when a student, Seung-Hui Choi, gunned down 56 people. Thirty-two people died in the massacre.

February 12, 2007. In Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square Mall, 5 people were shot to death [24] and 4 others were wounded by 18-year-old gunman Sulejman Talović. One of the victims was a 16-year-old boy.

October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down [25] by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.

March 25, 2006. Seven died and 2 were injured by 28-year-old Kyle Aaron Huff in ashooting spree [26] through Capitol Hill in Seattle, WA. The massacre was the worst killing in Seattle since 1983.

March 21, 2005. Teenager Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend before opening fire [27] on Red Lake Senior High School, killing 9 people on campus and injuring 5. Weise killed himself.

March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down [28] by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.

July 8, 2003. Doug Williams, a Lockheed Martin employee, shot up [29] his plant in Meridian, MI in a racially-motivated rampage. He shot 14 people, most of them African American, and killed 7.

September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire [30] on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.

July 29, 1999. Mark Orrin Barton, 44, murdered [31] his wife and two children with a hammer before shooting up two Atlanta day trading firms. Barton, a day trader, was believed to be motivated by huge monetary losses. He killed 12 including his family and injured 13 before killing himself.

April 20, 1999. In the deadliest high school shooting in US history, teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Kiebold shot up Columbine High School [32] in Littleton, CO. They killed 13 people and wounded 21 others. They killed themselves after the massacre.

http://www.alternet.org/61-30-years-timeline-mass-shootings-america

gun-and-ammo industry solution (which includes the NRA gun marketing assholes) solution: MORE GUNS!

[rascal]

They likely would have killed with something else.

You make stupid arguments. That kid would not have killed any other way. He took the easy way, a gun from his mother.

[rascal]

[B]61 in 30 Years: A Timeline of Mass Shootings in America




You didn't list the shootings in the Washington DC area by the sniper.

[spursncowboys]

Too poor to buy guns... plus Afghanistan has proven you can fight with stones and spears and drive out the mightiest military power on earth...
They didn't beat the USSR with stones and spears.
Every household owns an AK. You have to.

[spursncowboys]

Anyone have examples of Patriots with guns stopping these monsters when they go on these kind of rampages?

Post 'em here please.
All the locals firing back at Whitman, which kept him down and unable to keep shooting.

Nick Mali
http://now.msn.com/nick-meli-who-had-a-concealed-weapon-thought-about-shooting-oregon-mall-killer

[ElNono]

They didn't beat the USSR with stones and spears.
Every household owns an AK. You have to.

I'm sure they have a few more presents St Ronnie gave them back in the day...

[SA210]

Anyone have examples of Patriots with guns stopping these monsters when they go on these kind of rampages?

Post 'em here please.

http://www.examiner.com/article/media-blackout-oregon-mall-shooter-was-stopped-by-an-armed-citizen?cid=db_articles

[Wild Cobra]

You make stupid arguments. That kid would not have killed any other way. He took the easy way, a gun from his mother.
I take it then, to contend such facts, you know him personally?

[Wild Cobra]

You didn't list the shootings in the Washington DC area by the sniper.
He is cherry picking.

1) DC is not a state

2) DC had some of the toughest gun control laws and the highest homicide rate with guns.

[Wild Cobra]

All the locals firing back at Whitman, which kept him down and unable to keep shooting.

Nick Mali
http://now.msn.com/nick-meli-who-had-a-concealed-weapon-thought-about-shooting-oregon-mall-killer
Cool, I live a short drive from the Clackamas Town Center, and I didn't know that, but then haven't listened to any news for a few days either. I'll bet this guy would have fired if the shooter got his rifle unjammed.

Props to Nick.

From a local new source: Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter (http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-armed-confronts-mall-shooter-183593571.html)

[Wild Cobra]

6dsV6TCwd0o

[Wild Cobra]

Looks like to me, the shooter probably would have kept killing people after he unjammed his rifle, if he didn't see someone else ready to take him out.

[ElNono]

So Nick didn't stop any rampage...

[Wild Cobra]

So Nick didn't stop any rampage...
That cannot be reasonable know. The shooter may not have taken his own life when he did. He may have continued on the rampage once he unjammed his AR15, had he not seen someone else aiming at him.

[ElNono]

That cannot be reasonable know.

Exactly. scott asked for examples where rampages have been stopped. That's at best a poor example.

[Wild Cobra]

Exactly. scott asked for examples where rampages have been stopped. That's at best a poor example.
Look at it from the possible angles. Had the shooter continued, I'm reasonable sure this guy would have snipped him down. If such laws are implemented to take that away from us, then it makes that possibility impossible.

[SA210]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/397109_399393260141172_1394375004_n.jpg

[coyotes_geek]

Ya. Too young. I mentioned something to my 6 yr old daughter, just trying to be honest and explain what happened to the best of my ability and my wife freaked out. Wanted to keep her in the dark about the whole situation. I don't know, from my perspective honesty just seemed to be the best policy.

I'd have done the same. The kids are going to hear about it at school, I'd much rather have my kid hear about something like this from me first.


Happy early birthday to him! My oldest just turned 3 a month ago.

Nice! Happy birthday to yours too. I'm going to miss the two's. Really fun age.

[DarkReign]

I think this is the last straw. A second term president, overwhelming public outcry and opinion...

Private assault rifle ownership is gone. You want one, buy them now, still no guarantee you'll get to keep it when the law goes through.

[Drachen]

Looks like to me, the shooter probably would have kept killing people after he unjammed his rifle, if he didn't see someone else ready to take him out.


I take it then, to contend such facts, you know him personally?

[Drachen]

I think this is the last straw. A second term president, overwhelming public outcry and opinion...

Private assault rifle ownership is gone. You want one, buy them now, still no guarantee you'll get to keep it when the law goes through.


They aren't going to TAKE them. I would say that there would be a ban with a lucrative buyback program.

[DarkReign]

They aren't going to TAKE them. I would say that there would be a ban with a lucrative buyback program.

I hope you are right. I had no intention of buying an AR15 this year...now, I do.

[Drachen]

I hope you are right. I had no intention of buying an AR15 this year...now, I do.

honest question: Why?

Does it have to do with your dystopian view of the future?

[spursncowboys]

I personally just enjoy shooting the ar15. That is why I would get one. Plus if you have ever gone bore hunting in south texas, an ar15 is great!

[Drachen]

I personally just enjoy shooting the ar15. That is why I would get one. Plus if you have ever gone bore hunting in south texas, an ar15 is great!

I have not, so I fully admit that I am speaking from ignorance, but I have plenty of friends who go boar hunting in S. Texas and don't own assault rifles. They bring in a pretty good haul all the time. Heck, I really want to go with them (and go hunting in general), they guy who lets them hunt on his land pays them 50 bucks per to help clear some off his land. I want to go hunting for cheap meat, so for practical reasons. Either way, they do really well for themselves without assault rifles.

[Koolaid_Man]

What the fuck is wrong with people these days??? How fucked up does a person have to be to gun down 20 children between 5 and 10?? I don't usually cry over shit like this, but I've been holding back tears all fucking day. May that son of a bitch burn in hell if there is one.




why are you holding back tears....let them flow....
If you play violent video games and support violent movies you're partly to blame for this....
there is no hell so he's not burning...

[Koolaid_Man]

There's an old saying. outlaw guns, and only the outlaws will have them.

seems to me the only ones committing mass crimes are the ones obtaining guns legally... ;-)

[DarkReign]

honest question: Why?

Does it have to do with your dystopian view of the future?

I really enjoy shooting semi-automatic assault rifles. No other tangible reason, really.

a) I can afford them, b) theyre legal to own and c) theyre a helluva lot of fun kit up.

Its a hobby, nothing more. Dystopian future means nothing to me, although I will say out loud that it troubles me that in a country where your right to privacy is being bombarded by your government and large corporate data miners, the only people with the assault rifles would be law enforcement and the military. If civil unrest were to happen (extremely unlikely), the citizen NOT having assault rifles would be akin to the Colonists not owning muskets. The difference in sheer firepower with one side having assault rifles and the other having hunting rifles and handguns would be...one sided to say the least.

But ultimately, thats a philosophical viewpoint, not one rooted in current reality. Flippantly, I own property waaaaaay up north where I could shoot short range artillery if I were certified and trained to do so (yes, you can get certified to own and operate privately). Assault rifles are just a whooooole lot of fun to operate.

[101A]

Regardless of the gun control legislation; and assuming there will be no discussion of arming at least a single person at a school, schools need to develop a different strategy for when these guys actually get loose in there building. Having all the children be quiet and hide in a corner, or under their desks just makes it easy on the crazy. He KNOWS where they are, what they are doing, and then just goes about his business.

Shooting, for instance, doves or ducks is easy when they are on the ground, in a tree, or water. In fact, bagged my limit of doves one day when I caught a flock eating seed in a field - with one shot (boring day, tbh). When they fly, however, it makes the job much tougher; birds going everywhere, not easy to hit one, much less get off a fatal shot.

Don't know if this is at all practical, or if kids would do it, but if they were taught to, on a signal, run en mass toward the gunman - he would, first, have to think fast (if he wants to off himself, better get on with it; 400 screaming elementary school kids are going to be on you in less than 3 seconds) - at the very least he won't get to put the gun a few inches from a skull an sqeeze! He certainly wouldn't kill 27.

Just a thought (I have two in school now; have told them, whatever you do; don't just sit there and get shot.)

Honestly, debating gun control legislation should come later - on its merits; doing that, and thinking you've solved any problems in the near term is naive; too many guns already in the system - EVEN if you confiscated; WAY too many guns to hope to keep them out of the crazies hands for at least a few decades.

[DarkReign]

why are you holding back tears....let them flow....
If you play violent video games and support violent movies you're partly to blame for this....
there is no hell so he's not burning...


Violent video games have nothing to do with anything. Violence in media has nothing to do with anything. I dont know why people do what they do, but if I had to guess, the trend was set by Columbine. The US isnt the only place in the world where assholes attack defenseless children, but it is one of the only countries that a mass murderer can acquire the weapons to exponentially increase their lethality and body count.

Its a conundrum, IMO. But listening to the news, radio, TV and newspapers, even sports radio where you get a ton of callers (general public), in a place like Michigan where gun rights mean something, the writing is on the wall. Assault rifles in the hands of private citizens will be a thing of the past very soon. Just an opinion.

[spursncowboys]

I have not, so I fully admit that I am speaking from ignorance, but I have plenty of friends who go boar hunting in S. Texas and don't own assault rifles. They bring in a pretty good haul all the time. Heck, I really want to go with them (and go hunting in general), they guy who lets them hunt on his land pays them 50 bucks per to help clear some off his land. I want to go hunting for cheap meat, so for practical reasons. Either way, they do really well for themselves without assault rifles.
Yeah some places are so overpopulated that you shooting them for the count. I've never hunted the boar to eat. Just to help friends get them off their land. But about the weapon. It's just a great rifle. Not much kick at all. Pretty much the same as a .22.

Buying an auto legally and carrying it legally would set you back atleast $1500.

[Koolaid_Man]

Violent video games have nothing to do with anything. Violence in media has nothing to do with anything. I dont know why people do what they do, but if I had to guess, the trend was set by Columbine. The US isnt the only place in the world where assholes attack defenseless children, but it is one of the only countries that a mass murderer can acquire the weapons to exponentially increase their lethality and body count.

Its a conundrum, IMO. But listening to the news, radio, TV and newspapers, even sports radio where you get a ton of callers (general public), in a place like Michigan where gun rights mean something, the writing is on the wall. Assault rifles in the hands of private citizens will be a thing of the past very soon. Just an opinion.

with all due respect...you're delusional if you think violent video games has nothing to do with it...it's not THE reason but it's part of the problem...just like gangsta rap music is part of the BIG problem for the young black youth...just admit it...we're all hypocrites when it comes to shit like this..I listen to gangsta rap music but I know it's bad for youth in general...I watch violent movies and I also know that it can have an effect on how kids perceive reality...I've slept with married women and I know that's wrong too....I'm a hypocrite in fact we ALL are...I can just admit it....music, movies, games they all play a significant part...and then some people are just bad people...I don't give a shit that these recent shooters had so called "mental issues"...mental health is never a problem when the criminal is a minority...

we need gun control along with severe violation penalties along with increased security

[TeyshaBlue]

Trying to solve an irrational problem with rational solutions seems to be futile.

[Drachen]

Yeah some places are so overpopulated that you shooting them for the count. I've never hunted the boar to eat. Just to help friends get them off their land. But about the weapon. It's just a great rifle. Not much kick at all. Pretty much the same as a .22.

Buying an auto legally and carrying it legally would set you back atleast $1500.

Hell, I will take your kills, LOL. A good carnitas made from pork shoulder is awesome.

[boutons_deux]

Five Things Every Elected Official Should Know About The NRA (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/17/1343111/five-things-every-elected-official-should-know-about-the-nra/)

1) The NRA’s Candidates Got Their Clocks Cleaned Last Month: The NRA Political Victory Fund spent a massive $16,554,803.07 (http://reporting.sunlightfoundation.com/outside-spending/committee/national-rifle-association-of-america-political-victory-fund/C00053553) seeking to elect its preferred candidates last November. They might have accomplished more by burning the money. Just 0.81 percent of these expenditures (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/11/08/1166291/the-nra-got-its-clock-cleaned-on-election-day-and-planned-parenthood-cleaned-house/) benefited a winning candidate.




2) An NRA Endorsement Is Virtually Useless: According to an analysis of all 1038 NRA endorsements in the 2004-2010 election cycles, the NRA’s endorsement swung the result in just four races (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/13/424213/the-myth-of-nra-dominance-part-ii-overrated-endorsements/) — meaning that the chance that an NRA endorsement will be the factor that places a pro-gun candidate in the House is less than 0.4 percent. The analysis also determined that most candidates garner no boost whatsoever for an NRA endorsement, although “Republican challengers who get endorsed when they run against Democratic incumbents do about 2 percentage points better than similar candidates who don’t get the endorsement.”



3) Democrats Gain Nothing From Pandering To The NRA: One group that has nothing to gain from appeasing the NRA is Democrats. The 2004-2010 analysis mentioned above found that “Democratic incumbents who are endorsed by the NRA get no statistically significant advantage from being endorsed,” and a similar study of the 1994 and 1996 election cycles determined that an NRA endorsement “had almost no impact for Democrats who were endorsed (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/02/22/430560/the-myth-of-nra-dominance-part-iii-two-elections-the-nra-did-not-win/), Republican incumbents who were endorsed, or any kind of candidate in 1996.”



4) Gun Ownership Is Steadily Declining: Lawmakers hoping to appeal to gun owners are reaching out to a steadily dwindling base (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/03/01/435437/the-myth-of-nra-dominance-part-iv-the-declining-role-of-guns-in-american-society/). In 1977, 54 percent of American adults lived in a gun-owning household. By 2010, that figure declined to 32 percent:
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Percent-of-households-owning-guns.jpg



5) Not Even NRA Members Believe All Gun Regulations Are Wrong: NRA members overwhelmingly support a wide range of reforms (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/15/1341181/the-5-sensible-gun-safety-regulations-that-even-nra-members-support/), including requiring criminal background checks on gun owners and gun shop employees, and mandating that gun-owners tell the police when their gun is stolen.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/17/1343111/five-things-every-elected-official-should-know-about-the-nra/

[Fernando TD21]

I really enjoy shooting semi-automatic assault rifles. No other tangible reason, really.

a) I can afford them, b) theyre legal to own and c) theyre a helluva lot of fun kit up.

Its a hobby, nothing more. Dystopian future means nothing to me, although I will say out loud that it troubles me that in a country where your right to privacy is being bombarded by your government and large corporate data miners, the only people with the assault rifles would be law enforcement and the military. If civil unrest were to happen (extremely unlikely), the citizen NOT having assault rifles would be akin to the Colonists not owning muskets. The difference in sheer firepower with one side having assault rifles and the other having hunting rifles and handguns would be...one sided to say the least.

But ultimately, thats a philosophical viewpoint, not one rooted in current reality. Flippantly, I own property waaaaaay up north where I could shoot short range artillery if I were certified and trained to do so (yes, you can get certified to own and operate privately). Assault rifles are just a whooooole lot of fun to operate.
Nice to see someone being honest about it and admitting to own weapons just because it's legal and fun.


The US isnt the only place in the world where assholes attack defenseless children, but it is one of the only countries that a mass murderer can acquire the weapons to exponentially increase their lethality and body count.
:tu

[coyotes_geek]

Trying to solve an irrational problem with rational solutions seems to be futile.

This.

We can turn schools into fortresses and the kooks will just find some other soft target to strike. Thinking that future incidents can be prevented by stricter gun laws or by arming teachers and principals are equally naive. There is no good answer here.

[cantthinkofanything]

Violent video games have nothing to do with anything. Violence in media has nothing to do with anything. I dont know why people do what they do, but if I had to guess, the trend was set by Columbine. The US isnt the only place in the world where assholes attack defenseless children, but it is one of the only countries that a mass murderer can acquire the weapons to exponentially increase their lethality and body count.

Its a conundrum, IMO. But listening to the news, radio, TV and newspapers, even sports radio where you get a ton of callers (general public), in a place like Michigan where gun rights mean something, the writing is on the wall. Assault rifles in the hands of private citizens will be a thing of the past very soon. Just an opinion.

It's a different discussion but I think it's pretty naive to think violent video games, movies, etc. don't have any affect on certain people that watch them. As far as kids go, ultimately the blame falls on the parents but if you've got a 7 year old playing Manhunt or GTA or whatever for 5 hours a day, you can't say that doesn't have some impact on the kids personality and how he sees violence.

[Drachen]

I really enjoy shooting semi-automatic assault rifles. No other tangible reason, really.

a) I can afford them, b) theyre legal to own and c) theyre a helluva lot of fun kit up.

Its a hobby, nothing more. Dystopian future means nothing to me, although I will say out loud that it troubles me that in a country where your right to privacy is being bombarded by your government and large corporate data miners, the only people with the assault rifles would be law enforcement and the military. If civil unrest were to happen (extremely unlikely), the citizen NOT having assault rifles would be akin to the Colonists not owning muskets. The difference in sheer firepower with one side having assault rifles and the other having hunting rifles and handguns would be...one sided to say the least.

But ultimately, thats a philosophical viewpoint, not one rooted in current reality. Flippantly, I own property waaaaaay up north where I could shoot short range artillery if I were certified and trained to do so (yes, you can get certified to own and operate privately). Assault rifles are just a whooooole lot of fun to operate.


Yeah some places are so overpopulated that you shooting them for the count. I've never hunted the boar to eat. Just to help friends get them off their land. But about the weapon. It's just a great rifle. Not much kick at all. Pretty much the same as a .22.

Buying an auto legally and carrying it legally would set you back atleast $1500.


Well, I know nothing about guns, and I don't even know what this is, but I ran across it and thought you guys might want to take a look at it.

AR15 stripped lower receiver = $80
http://slickdeals.net/f/5710364-GUNS-AR15-Stripped-lower-receiver-Anderson-80-S-H

[cantthinkofanything]

Buying an auto legally and carrying it legally would set you back atleast $1500.

LMAO...yeah "at least" that.

[scott]

I really enjoy shooting semi-automatic assault rifles. No other tangible reason, really.

a) I can afford them, b) theyre legal to own and c) theyre a helluva lot of fun kit up.

Its a hobby, nothing more. Dystopian future means nothing to me, although I will say out loud that it troubles me that in a country where your right to privacy is being bombarded by your government and large corporate data miners, the only people with the assault rifles would be law enforcement and the military. If civil unrest were to happen (extremely unlikely), the citizen NOT having assault rifles would be akin to the Colonists not owning muskets. The difference in sheer firepower with one side having assault rifles and the other having hunting rifles and handguns would be...one sided to say the least.

But ultimately, thats a philosophical viewpoint, not one rooted in current reality. Flippantly, I own property waaaaaay up north where I could shoot short range artillery if I were certified and trained to do so (yes, you can get certified to own and operate privately). Assault rifles are just a whooooole lot of fun to operate.

I'd venture to say the fact one side will have tanks, fighter jets, drones, and the best trained and organized military in the world has more to do with the one-sided nature of the battle than any citizen's lack of a semi-automatic assault rifle.

[cantthinkofanything]

Has something else changed or is this just piss poor reporting? Everything I've read said that the AR-15 was in the car and not used to kill the people in the school.


Magazines that fed bullets into the primary firearm used to kill 26 children and adults at a Connecticut (http://topics.bloomberg.com/connecticut/) school would have been banned under state legislation that the National Rifle Association (http://topics.bloomberg.com/national-rifle-association/) and gunmakers successfully fought.

The shooter at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Adam Lanza, 20, used a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle with magazines containing 30 rounds as his main weapon, said Connecticut State Police Lieutenant Paul Vance at a news conference yesterday.








http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-16/ban-on-30-round-gun-magazines-in-connecticut-died-after-pressure.html

[SA210]

I think a Razzie would be better..


http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/300928_363692613725931_2085456201_n.jpg

[TeyshaBlue]

Has something else changed or is this just piss poor reporting? Everything I've read said that the AR-15 was in the car and not used to kill the people in the school.



The pre-existing narrative finally asserts itself. Not surprising, really.

Btw, you are correct. The Bushmaster was found in his vehicle. It was not used.

[Drachen]

I'd venture to say the fact one side will have tanks, fighter jets, drones, and the best trained and organized military in the world has more to do with the one-sided nature of the battle than any citizen's lack of a semi-automatic assault rifle.

This

[Drachen]

The pre-existing narrative finally asserts itself. Not surprising, really.

Btw, you are correct. The Bushmaster was found in his vehicle. It was not used.


I had read that there were 4 weapons, the rifle and two handguns on him and another in the car (which I had never seen identified).

Edit, it seems that the bushmaster .223 was the only weapon used to kill according to the medical examiner.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/guns-parents-and-sandy-hook-time-to-take-the-bullet/266315/

[TeyshaBlue]

This

Afghanistan says "Oh Hai guns and stuffs!"

[TeyshaBlue]

I had read that there were 4 weapons, the rifle and two handguns on him and another in the car (which I had never seen identified).

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html

Three weapons were recovered from the school: a semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster found in a car in the school parking lot, and a Glock and a Sig Sauer found with Lanza's body, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said. The weapons were legally purchased by Lanza's mother, the official said.

[DarkReign]

I'd venture to say the fact one side will have tanks, fighter jets, drones, and the best trained and organized military in the world has more to do with the one-sided nature of the battle than any citizen's lack of a semi-automatic assault rifle.


This

Its a silly train of thought to even entertain, really, but we went there...

Flashpoint: Civil Unrest. Open revolt in multiple American regions.

The chances of the military using tanks and aircraft against their own citizens is iffy at best. Unless it was open war (ie Civil War, two sides divided by secession), the government is not going to wholesale slaughter their own people.

Assuming youre both right and the government did use the full brunt of their military against their own citizens, then nothing would matter anymore anyway. You would no longer call yourself American or care who lived and died at that point. You would be no better than the Russian peasants living under the Tzars or Stalin. The war was lost before it even started.

[TeyshaBlue]

mebbe not.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-nn-connecticut-school-shooting-assault-rifle-20121216,0,3808586.story

NEWTOWN, Conn. – School shooter Adam Lanza carried hundreds of bullets when he shot his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School and used an assault rifle to do most of the killing, authorities confirmed Sunday.

Lanza, 20, fired a Bushmaster .223 semiautomatic rifle to kill many of the 20 children and six adults at the school Friday, Connecticut State Police Lt. J. Paul Vance said. He used a Glock 10-millimeter handgun to shoot himself in the head. He also carried at Sig Sauer pistol. A shotgun, the type of which was not identified, was found in the trunk of Lanza’s car outside the school.

“The Bushmaster was used in the school, in its entirety, and [a] handgun was used to take his own life,” Vance said.

[DarkReign]

Afghanistan says "Oh Hai guns and stuffs!"

You assume the government would slaughter its own citizens. I dont think that would ever happen in this country. Never. Certainly not for civil disobedience.

[DarkReign]

Well, I know nothing about guns, and I don't even know what this is, but I ran across it and thought you guys might want to take a look at it.

AR15 stripped lower receiver = $80
http://slickdeals.net/f/5710364-GUNS-AR15-Stripped-lower-receiver-Anderson-80-S-H

Thats just the lower receiver. Its the only federally controlled portion of an assault rifle. Once you own the lower, you can purchase the rest of the firearm without background checks. L. Receivers are cheap, really, its the rest of the rifle that costs a boatload (namely the barrel and upper receiver).

[TeyshaBlue]

You assume the government would slaughter its own citizens. I dont think that would ever happen in this country. Never. Certainly not for civil disobedience.

Kent State says hello.

[Drachen]

Don't anybody mind TB, he is a bit slow from actively engaging BD.... Everybody pity him.

[DarkReign]

Kent State says hello.

I dont recall tanks and aircraft shelling college students on protest. Thus, my point.

[Soul_Patch]

It doesn't really matter what he used to kill those kids. Bushmaster, sig 9mm, whatever...In the eyes of the media and general public he used this:

http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/machine/mg12/m60e4.jpg

[Drachen]

Thats just the lower receiver. Its the only federally controlled portion of an assault rifle. Once you own the lower, you can purchase the rest of the firearm without background checks. L. Receivers are cheap, really, its the rest of the rifle that costs a boatload (namely the barrel and upper receiver).

ok. well yall were talking about buying the guns, and I like it when people offer me deals that are topical (i.e. I was talking about buying one), so there ya go.

[TeyshaBlue]

I dont recall tanks and aircraft shelling college students on protest. Thus, my point.
Just doing the Devil's Advocate dance.

[TeyshaBlue]

Don't anybody mind TB, he is a bit slow from actively engaging BD.... Everybody pity him.

YOU LIE! GFY!

[Drachen]

Just doing the Devil's Advocate dance.

Dude that song would last forever, good thing they went with Safety Dance instead.

[DarkReign]

ok. well yall were talking about buying the guns, and I like it when people offer me deals that are topical (i.e. I was talking about buying one), so there ya go.

Oh no, I got what you were saying. I was just offering advice on expected cost of an AR15. The lower receiver is probably the least complex portion of the rifle outside the butt stock (and even those can get pretty fancy).

[Drachen]

YOU LIE! GFY!

See children, it's sad, but let that be a warning to you. Like Icarus' opposite, TB flew too far away from the sun and slowed down

[DarkReign]

Just doing the Devil's Advocate dance.

I understand where you (and your argument) are coming from and ultimately, you, Scott and Drachen are correct. If the government decided to bring the full brunt of the military down upon its citizens in revolt, all the automatics on the planet wouldnt make one f-ing bit of difference.

I however dont believe the government would ever do it. I am quite sure they would actively kill hundreds if not thousands of rebels using all sorts of mechanized equipment and aircraft, but nothing even remotely like what is brought to bear in Afghanistan, Iraq or Vietnam. They would make Kent State a footnote in government-citizen atrocities the very first day. The difference however would be the college students shooting back.

With that said, I am done with this Dystopian, open revolt conversation. Its really worthless to think about as it will never happen.

[Drachen]

doppelbock

[Drachen]

Oh no, I got what you were saying. I was just offering advice on expected cost of an AR15. The lower receiver is probably the least complex portion of the rifle outside the butt stock (and even those can get pretty fancy).

Ok cool, well that is for someone else. If I buy a gun, it will likely be a hunting rifle, or a handgun. I am overall not for having guns myself. I want a hunting rifle for the aforementioned practical purposes, but would rather just borrow one from my buddies who hunt who have multiple guns. The handgun is more for the fact that I am nervous about all of these prepper types. I feel like there are more people stockpiling guns because they are afraid of something going down. I feel like all of those stockpiles are just more and more hay in the tinderbox and an innocuous spark is going to set it off (whereas it usually wouldn't ). I basically feel like this will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

[DarkReign]

Ok cool, well that is for someone else. If I buy a gun, it will likely be a hunting rifle, or a handgun. I am overall not for having guns myself. I want a hunting rifle for the aforementioned practical purposes, but would rather just borrow one from my buddies who hunt who have multiple guns. The handgun is more for the fact that I am nervous about all of these prepper types. I feel like there are more people stockpiling guns because they are afraid of something going down. I feel like all of those stockpiles are just more and more hay in the tinderbox and an innocuous spark is going to set it off (whereas it usually wouldn't ). I basically feel like this will be a self fulfilling prophecy.

I must have missed the sarcasm then. No biggie. Handguns are nice, just get +P rounds and you really cant go wrong with caliber. Just practice shooting...a lot. Handguns are terribly inaccurate in the hands of a beginner, even at point blank.

[Drachen]

I must have missed the sarcasm then. No biggie. Handguns are nice, just get +P rounds and you really cant go wrong with caliber. Just practice shooting...a lot. Handguns are terribly inaccurate in the hands of a beginner, even at point blank.

I wasn't being sarcastic at all.

tl;dr: Yall wanted to buy a gun, I was just trying to help out. I don't want to buy one of those guns, but have some gun needs that I am not terribly comfortable with.

So what you are telling me is that bad guys in movies (especially Rambo) are all beginners? LOL

[spursncowboys]

Hell, I will take your kills, LOL. A good carnitas made from pork shoulder is awesome.
Sounds like a deal. Next time I'm in SA I'll kill it, you grill it

[ChumpDumper]

Don't know if this is at all practical, or if kids would do it, but if they were taught to, on a signal, run en mass toward the gunman - he would, first, have to think fast (if he wants to off himself, better get on with it; 400 screaming elementary school kids are going to be on you in less than 3 seconds) - at the very least he won't get to put the gun a few inches from a skull an sqeeze! He certainly wouldn't kill 27.wut

[ElNono]

Look at it from the possible angles. Had the shooter continued, I'm reasonable sure this guy would have snipped him down. If such laws are implemented to take that away from us, then it makes that possibility impossible.

Or he could've shot an innocent bystander. Or gotten killed by the shooter. Or both. Those are all 'possible angles'.

[SA210]

14-year-old Phoenix boy shoots armed intruder while babysitting siblings


http://www.examiner.com/article/14-year-old-phoenix-boy-shoots-armed-intruder-while-babysitting-siblings

[spursncowboys]

It doesn't really matter what he used to kill those kids. Bushmaster, sig 9mm, whatever...In the eyes of the media and general public he used this:
I hate when people put a gangster grip and short barrel on the 240B
http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/machine/mg12/m60e4.jpg

[scott]

Its a silly train of thought to even entertain, really, but we went there...

Flashpoint: Civil Unrest. Open revolt in multiple American regions.

The chances of the military using tanks and aircraft against their own citizens is iffy at best. Unless it was open war (ie Civil War, two sides divided by secession), the government is not going to wholesale slaughter their own people.

Assuming youre both right and the government did use the full brunt of their military against their own citizens, then nothing would matter anymore anyway. You would no longer call yourself American or care who lived and died at that point. You would be no better than the Russian peasants living under the Tzars or Stalin. The war was lost before it even started.

I agree the idea of the military using tanks and aircraft against their own citizens as iffy at best. I also think the idea that the citizenry would be pitted against the government insofar as it needs assault rifles to be iffy at best.

[scott]

I understand where you (and your argument) are coming from and ultimately, you, Scott and Drachen are correct. If the government decided to bring the full brunt of the military down upon its citizens in revolt, all the automatics on the planet wouldnt make one f-ing bit of difference.

I however dont believe the government would ever do it. I am quite sure they would actively kill hundreds if not thousands of rebels using all sorts of mechanized equipment and aircraft, but nothing even remotely like what is brought to bear in Afghanistan, Iraq or Vietnam. They would make Kent State a footnote in government-citizen atrocities the very first day. The difference however would be the college students shooting back.

With that said, I am done with this Dystopian, open revolt conversation. Its really worthless to think about as it will never happen.

+1

[Shastafarian]

14-year-old Phoenix boy shoots armed intruder while babysitting siblings


http://www.examiner.com/article/14-year-old-phoenix-boy-shoots-armed-intruder-while-babysitting-siblings

I bet that kid is up to date on his vaccines.

[ChumpDumper]

I bet that kid is up to date on his vaccines.lol

The actual story is a little different. Still justifiable -- I don't know what SA210 is arguing.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/20120629laveen-boy-shot-intruder-once-father-shot-him-twice-abrk.html

[Shastafarian]

I would guess he's using it to show how great guns can be! But for every story of fending off an intruder with a gun, I'm sure there are as many of accidental shootings that kill innocent people.

[Warlord23]

The problem with an armed populace is where do you draw the line. I could argue that I like owning a tank or a rocket launcher or hand grenades, and that I like practicing with them on my ranch in a completely safe way where they would harm no human, animal or plant life. Also, they would be undeniably useful in civil war / anarchy / UN invasion scenarios.

The principle that makes most sense is to arm the citizen enough that he may protect himself in reasonably likely scenarios (e.g. using a handgun vs an armed robber). A gun with a high-capacity clip that is capable of killing 30 people inside a minute ... I'm having trouble seeing reasonably likely scenarios where that type of weapon would be a must-have.

[spursncowboys]

I would guess he's using it to show how great guns can be! But for every story of fending off an intruder with a gun, I'm sure there are as many of accidental shootings that kill innocent people.
Are you suggesting that we need to protect people from themselves by not letting them own weapons? So you are for drug laws too? criminalize caffeine, tobacco, sugar, acidic foods and drinks, vehicles, knives, electicity, water, video games, movies, to name a few?

[spursncowboys]

The problem with an armed populace is where do you draw the line. I could argue that I like owning a tank or a rocket launcher or hand grenades, and that I like practicing with them on my ranch in a completely safe way where they would harm no human, animal or plant life. Also, they would be undeniably useful in civil war / anarchy / UN invasion scenarios.

The principle that makes most sense is to arm the citizen enough that he may protect himself in reasonably likely scenarios (e.g. using a handgun vs an armed robber). A gun with a high-capacity clip that is capable of killing 30 people inside a minute ... I'm having trouble seeing reasonably likely scenarios where that type of weapon would be a must-have.
Can you afford a tank?

I do agree that the main reason I am armed is for when I have to run up to the store when most of the people out are drunk or I'm in a bad neighborhood. The main reason is if a worst case scenario happens at my house, I don't want to sit and wait for the police. Hoping they beat their avg 45 min response time. In my life, I've gotten in the car and drove to the hospital rather than wait for an ambulance.

[Shastafarian]

Are you suggesting that we need to protect people from themselves by not letting them own weapons? So you are for drug laws too? criminalize caffeine, tobacco, sugar, acidic foods and drinks, vehicles, knives, electicity, water, video games, movies, to name a few?

I was merely pointing out his example is irrelevant. Also kudos on having the most slippery of slopes collection of things that can harm us. Water? :rollin

[spursncowboys]

I was merely pointing out his example is irrelevant. Also kudos on having the most slippery of slopes collection of things that can harm us. Water? :rollin
Yeah I laughed to myself when I included that one.

[Shastafarian]

I do agree that the main reason I am armed is for when I have to run up to the store when most of the people out are drunk or I'm in a bad neighborhood. The main reason is if a worst case scenario happens at my house, I don't want to sit and wait for the police. Hoping they beat their avg 45 min response time. In my life, I've gotten in the car and drove to the hospital rather than wait for an ambulance.
So then you'd have no problem going through tougher regulations to obtain such an important piece of safety equipment.

[ElNono]

I was merely pointing out his example is irrelevant. Also kudos on having the most slippery of slopes collection of things that can harm us. Water? :rollin

Fluoride FTW... SA can fill you in on the details...

[rascal]

I personally just enjoy shooting the ar15. That is why I would get one. Plus if you have ever gone bore hunting in south texas, an ar15 is great!
You assholes enjoying killing animals and shooting guns. Stick the gun up your ass and pull the trigger.

[DarkReign]

I wasn't being sarcastic at all.

tl;dr: Yall wanted to buy a gun, I was just trying to help out. I don't want to buy one of those guns, but have some gun needs that I am not terribly comfortable with.

Alright, I tried covering it up with the sarcasm comment. Truth-talk: I didnt follow what you meant at all.


So what you are telling me is that bad guys in movies (especially Rambo) are all beginners? LOL

In Rambo's case, its the strokes he suffered. Guy's face is paralyzed on one side, listen to the way he talks. I bet its his shooting eye, too.

[DarkReign]

You assholes enjoying killing animals and shooting guns. Stick the gun up your ass and pull the trigger.

Why, you gay?

[rascal]

Why, you gay?
I am not gay. But what does that have anything to do with this anyways?

Shooting animals makes you some type of tough guy?

[CosmicCowboy]

You assholes enjoying killing animals and shooting guns. Stick the gun up your ass and pull the trigger.

You anti-gun pompous asses that enjoy eating animals other people killed for you can stick your fork up your ass.

[DarkReign]

I am not gay. But what does that have anything to do with this anyways?

Shooting animals makes you some type of tough guy?

Well no, but you clearly requested multiple people to insert long barrels into their rectums, which is sort of an odd thing for a hetero to request, is all. Its cool man, bygones be bygones.

[Warlord23]

Can you afford a tank?

I do agree that the main reason I am armed is for when I have to run up to the store when most of the people out are drunk or I'm in a bad neighborhood. The main reason is if a worst case scenario happens at my house, I don't want to sit and wait for the police. Hoping they beat their avg 45 min response time. In my life, I've gotten in the car and drove to the hospital rather than wait for an ambulance.

IDK, I don't know the price of an average tank :lol. I'm pretty sure I could afford a few grenades and a rocket launcher. The point is, would you be comfortable with letting me (and others whose motives may be different from mine) procure them? Would you let me take grenades to your kid's school?

[CosmicCowboy]

FWIW, tanks are perfectly legal to own. They aren't even registered.

[cantthinkofanything]

Its a silly train of thought to even entertain, really, but we went there...

Flashpoint: Civil Unrest. Open revolt in multiple American regions.

The chances of the military using tanks and aircraft against their own citizens is iffy at best. Unless it was open war (ie Civil War, two sides divided by secession), the government is not going to wholesale slaughter their own people.

Assuming youre both right and the government did use the full brunt of their military against their own citizens, then nothing would matter anymore anyway. You would no longer call yourself American or care who lived and died at that point. You would be no better than the Russian peasants living under the Tzars or Stalin. The war was lost before it even started.

assuming it got to that point, there's a good chance you'd be defending yourself against other citizens before the government stepped in. which in that case, I'd like to have the sufficient firepower

[Drachen]

You assholes enjoying killing animals and shooting guns. Stick the gun up your ass and pull the trigger.

I don't know if I will enjoy it, I have a feeling that it will be difficult for me to do, but there are a variety of practical reasons that I want to try it. I can imagine that the hunting trip itself would be fun (just another an excuse to hang out with your buddies, etc)

With that being said are you a vegan?

[CosmicCowboy]

assuming it got to that point, there's a good chance you'd be defending yourself against other citizens before the government stepped in. which in that case, I'd like to have the sufficient firepower

X2

I want to be better armed than the crooks.

[rascal]

I don't know if I will enjoy it, I have a feeling that it will be difficult for me to do, but there are a variety of practical reasons that I want to try it. I can imagine that the hunting trip itself would be fun (just another an excuse to hang out with your buddies, etc)

With that being said are you a vegan?

I stick with eating fish and chicken so no I am not a vegan. Chickens are mistreated and abused in the industry and that is an unfortunate consequence to the industry. Red meat is not good for many health reasons so I stay away from that but the food I eat is not killed by hunters.

hunters kill for the thrill of the hunt and not for a lack of meat. If they didn't enjoy the hunt they would not go.

[DarkReign]

I stick with eating fish and chicken so no I am not a vegan. Chickens are mistreated and abused in the industry and that is an unfortunate consequence to the industry. Red meat is not good for many health reasons so I stay away from that but the food I eat is not killed by hunters.

Watch a video on how your meat is delivered to you. A bullet to the spine is more humane than anything in the industry. If youre an animal lover, prepare to be disgusted beyond your imagination.


hunters kill for the thrill of the hunt and not for a lack of meat. If they didn't enjoy the hunt they would not go.

...and the problem with that is...?

Not true. While not all hunters hunt for meat, most hunters enjoy the hunt, the kill and the meat all at the same time. Strange, I know.

[Drachen]

I stick with eating fish and chicken so no I am not a vegan. Chickens are mistreated and abused in the industry and that is an unfortunate consequence to the industry. Red meat is not good for many health reasons so I stay away from that but the food I eat is not killed by hunters.

hunters kill for the thrill of the hunt and not for a lack of meat. If they didn't enjoy the hunt they would not go.

Ah ok, so you enjoy mistreating and killing fish and foul? why don't you stick a fishing pole up your ass and spin.

As far as the second part. After the capital investments of weapon and ammo, it makes nothing but sense to go hunting. My buddy gets his deer and boar processed for < .65 a pound.

[CosmicCowboy]

Ah ok, so you enjoy mistreating and killing fish and foul? why don't you stick a fishing pole up your ass and spin.

As far as the second part. After the capital investments of weapon and ammo, it makes nothing but sense to go hunting. My buddy gets his deer and boar processed for < .65 a pound.

I process my own. Did one deer yesterday starting at halftime of the Texans game and finished completely (shrink wrapped and in the freezer) by the 3rd quarter of the Cowboys game.

[ChumpDumper]

assuming it got to that point, there's a good chance you'd be defending yourself against other citizens before the government stepped in. which in that case, I'd like to have the sufficient firepower


X2

I want to be better armed than the crooks.That may have been Nancy Lanza's reasoning too.

[CosmicCowboy]

That may have been Nancy Lanza's reasoning too.

I store mine in a walk in gun safe that crazies don't have access to.

[Drachen]

I process my own. Did one deer yesterday starting at halftime of the Texans game and finished completely (shrink wrapped and in the freezer) by the 3rd quarter of the Cowboys game.

I think that I would be ok with paying for that. I don't have a ton of land and would likely be lazy. Deer steak at .65 a pound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than sirloin at 3.35 a lb (costco's best price if you buy a case of steak).

[DarkReign]

That may have been Nancy Lanza's reasoning too.

She obviously didnt recognize the home-schooled psycho she was raising. Fancy that.

[CosmicCowboy]

I think that I would be ok with paying for that. I don't have a ton of land and would likely be lazy. Deer steak at .65 a pound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than sirloin at 3.35 a lb (costco's best price if you buy a case of steak).

It's not the price but the quality. I separate every muscle and trim all the fat and silver skin. Well prepared venison is not "gamey" tasting. It's the fat and silverskin left by the conventional processors. Unlike beef and pork fat, venison fat renders out with a rancid taste.

[ChumpDumper]

I store mine in a walk in gun safe that crazies don't have access to.


She obviously didnt recognize the home-schooled psycho she was raising. Fancy that.lol quick responses

I'm not sure how a parent would be expected to predict this particular act. Kid seemed to have problems, but nothing revealed so far pointed to mass murder.

[cantthinkofanything]

lol quick responses

I'm not sure how a parent would be expected to predict this particular act. Kid seemed to have problems, but nothing revealed so far pointed to mass murder.

Kid seemed to have enough problems where I, as a parent, wouldn't have allowed him access to guns.

[ElNono]

I store mine in a walk in gun safe that crazies don't have access to.

Hope it's none of these...

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07/gun-safes/

[ChumpDumper]

Kid seemed to have enough problems where I, as a parent, wouldn't have allowed him access to guns.Which problems in particular?

[cantthinkofanything]

Which problems in particular?

all the ones I read about on Drudge Report

[ChumpDumper]

all the ones I read about on Drudge ReportWhich are?

[Shastafarian]

http://www.oprah.com/world/Susan-Klebolds-O-Magazine-Essay-I-Will-Never-Know-Why/5

[Jacob1983]

People need to realize that evil is real and exists in this world. If someone goes over the edge and wants to do violent acts toward others, that person will do whatever it takes to make it happen. Stopping them is the only thing someone can do to prevent mass violence and death.

[cantthinkofanything]

but seriously, no matter how good, responsible, normal, a kid or young adult is, I'm not giving them access to guns.

[cantthinkofanything]

Which are?

Batshit weirdness, autism, possible genius retardation syndrome, gothicaitis, etc.

[ChumpDumper]

but seriously, no matter how good, responsible, normal, a kid or young adult is, I'm not giving them access to guns.Hmm. Worked for the 14 year old in Arizona.

No easy answers imo.

[DarrinS]

Which problems in particular?


He had over 70,000 posts on an obscure, sports-related forum.

[ChumpDumper]

Batshit weirdness, autism, possible genius retardation syndrome, gothicaitis, etc.That's a word?

Examples of the batshit weirdness?

[ChumpDumper]

He had over 70,000 posts on an obscure, sports-related forum.What a relief.

This one isn't obscure.

[cantthinkofanything]

Hmm. Worked for the 14 year old in Arizona.

No easy answers imo.

no easy answers. but controlling access to your own guns is a good start to making sure your guns don't get used in a mass killing

[cantthinkofanything]

That's a word?

Examples of the batshit weirdness?

I may have misspellled it.

[ChumpDumper]

no easy answers. but controlling access to your own guns is a good start to making sure your guns don't get used in a mass killingNo shit.

Just seems like a lot of folks want to blame the mother because, well, gotta blame someone. I want to know their reasoning.

[ChumpDumper]

He had over 70,000 posts on an obscure, sports-related forum.
Lanza had no social media footprint — not even a Facebook page.http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/portrait-of-adam-lanza-and-his-family-begins-to-emerge/2012/12/17/376759ce-4862-11e2-820e-17eefac2f939_story_1.html

It's fun what can be learned from Darrin's failures.

[DarkReign]

No shit.

Just seems like a lot of folks want to blame the mother because, well, gotta blame someone. I want to know their reasoning.

Never meant to blame the mother for her son's sins. No matter how fucked up a parent is (or is not), I never bought the daddy/mommy-issues criminals cop to when explaining their maladjustment.

[Drachen]

It's not the price but the quality. I separate every muscle and trim all the fat and silver skin. Well prepared venison is not "gamey" tasting. It's the fat and silverskin left by the conventional processors. Unlike beef and pork fat, venison fat renders out with a rancid taste.

well then if i go hunting and bring something home, i will bring it to you for processing (especially since that is the missing link in this whole plan (my wife doesn't like gamey taste)).

[spursncowboys]

So then you'd have no problem going through tougher regulations to obtain such an important piece of safety equipment.
Why?? Who's to decide the regulations? A bunch or morons who can't even spend less than what they collect?
Who pays for it? Me? I have to pay to protect my family? Who is going to train me, or decide if I am able to carry a piece of equipment I paid for?

[spursncowboys]

You assholes enjoying killing animals and shooting guns. Stick the gun up your ass and pull the trigger.
Maybe you should read up on what wild hogs are doing to South Texas' agriculture and eco system.

[Shastafarian]

Why??Seriously?


Who's to decide the regulations? A bunch or morons who can't even spend less than what they collect? Why make any laws at all then?


Who pays for it? Me? I have to pay to protect my family? Who is going to train me, or decide if I am able to carry a piece of equipment I paid for?lol it's always about taking money away isn't it? Why aren't you outraged at all of the things that cost millions or billions more than tougher gun laws? Like the wars we're involved in. At least gun laws would ENHANCE safety, unlike the wars.

[spursncowboys]

Seriously? Yes


Why make any laws at all then? Are the laws in reaction to the school shooting, where the son stole the weapons? Where he didn't use an automatic weapon? If it's to not waste a crisis then I would say that it violates the constitution. If it's just to get less weapons off the streets from criminals, I would say they would still get them. If it's because the idea that a private citizen who has an automatic rifle in his car scares you, I'd say tough shit.


lol it's always about taking money away isn't it? Why aren't you outraged at all of the things that cost millions or billions more than tougher gun laws? Like the wars we're involved in. At least gun laws would ENHANCE safety, unlike the wars.[/quote]
How do you know what outrages me? You're assuming because I take one stance on a topic, I must fit into your preconcieved notion of everyone who believes like me, with the range of pro-gun people all included into one nice neat box. Also what statistics are you refering to when you say that gun laws enhance safety?
Are you saying that we are less safe with OBL and Saddam dead. Or that we just pissed off more people that we created more terrorists? Or are both wrong and you meant something entirely different?

[Shastafarian]

Yes...to make it harder for people to acquire deadly weapons. Am I in the wrong thread?


Are the laws in reaction to the school shooting, where the son stole the weapons? Where he didn't use an automatic weapon? If it's to not waste a crisis then I would say that it violates the constitution. If it's just to get less weapons off the streets from criminals, I would say they would still get them. If it's because the idea that a private citizen who has an automatic rifle in his car scares you, I'd say tough shit. Tough shit haha tell that to those dead children and the countless others murdered by semi-auto or automatic weapons.



How do you know what outrages me? You're assuming because I take one stance on a topic, I must fit into your preconcieved notion of everyone who believes like me, with the range of pro-gun people all included into one nice neat box. Also what statistics are you refering to when you say that gun laws enhance safety?
Are you saying that we are less safe with OBL and Saddam dead. Or that we just pissed off more people that we created more terrorists? Or are both wrong and you meant something entirely different?
Wait let me get this straight. So you think gun laws either do nothing or have deleterious effects on safety? Is that correct? And I'm assuming you're not outraged at other things because that's all I can do, assume, until you tell me otherwise. We are equally or less safe with Saddam dead yes. How many millions did our country alienate by invading a country on false pretenses? Remember the Gulf of Tonkin? Millions of Vietnamese do.

[Koolaid_Man]

Children of all races always respond well to President Obama. How children act around a stranger tells you as much about the stranger as about the children themselves. I love how comfortable little children are with our president. He is such a good man, and if we aren't, WE SHOULD BE so proud to have a person like him as our president.

What a precious picture..It goes to show that racists aren't born they are bred....Stop the madness folks

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/Obamakids.jpg

[spursncowboys]

Tough shit haha tell that to those dead children and the countless others murdered by semi-auto or automatic weapons. I didn't realize weapons shoot on their own. I completely change my position.




Wait let me get this straight. So you think gun laws either do nothing or have deleterious effects on safety? Is that correct? And I'm assuming you're not outraged at other things because that's all I can do, assume, until you tell me otherwise. We are equally or less safe with Saddam dead yes. How many millions did our country alienate by invading a country on false pretenses? Remember the Gulf of Tonkin? Millions of Vietnamese do.
Vietnam...from gun safety to vietnam. I guess its your honest answer so ok. I also don't really want to just list things that make me outraged. Seems silly. Like I would be doing it on a dare. But to the gun laws... I don't think outlawing automatic weapons made us more safe and letting the law expire made us less safe. I don't think that all the cities who made laws against handguns made them any more safe and in fact made them less safe. Now the federal law of comitting a crime using a shotgun made us as citizens safer. Coupled with the fact that there is not much of a parole system for that.

[DMX7]

Children of all races always respond well to President Obama. How children act around a stranger tells you as much about the stranger as about the children themselves. I love how comfortable little children are with our president. He is such a good man, and if we aren't, WE SHOULD BE so proud to have a person like him as our president.

What a precious picture..It goes to show that racists aren't born they are bred....Stop the madness folks

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/Obamakids.jpg

Mitt would probably pat them on the head while cautiously making sure they didn't dirty up his shirt or scuff his shoes.

[SA210]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/486903_363851173710075_546375424_n.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

Maybe you should read up on what wild hogs are doing to South Texas' agriculture and eco system.
Wild hogs can be real mean also...

[boutons_deux]

these are "loose lips" by a fringe asshole. This is mainstream thinking in bubba land

Gun Lobbyist: Americans Should Be ‘Prepared’ To Take On Elected Officials With Guns

CHRIS MATTHEWS (HOST): So you’re like Sharron Angle, out in Nevada, who said we need our Second Amendment rights to control when our politicians get out of hand.


PRATT: That’s our Second Amendment rights, she’s not making that up.


MATTHEWS: So how would you use your Second Amendment rights if you didn’t like the way your congressman or senator is representing you? [...]


PRATT: By being prepared. [...]


MATTHEWS: So Larry, it’s not just the right to use guns to protect your homes, it’s the right to take on your government?


PRATT: The government has been overboard.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2012/12/17/1349981/gun-lobbyist-americans-should-be-prepared-to-take-on-elected-officials-with-guns/

[CosmicCowboy]

well then if i go hunting and bring something home, i will bring it to you for processing (especially since that is the missing link in this whole plan (my wife doesn't like gamey taste)).

It's really pretty simple. You just start with a deer and trim away everything you don't want to eat...:p:

[spursncowboys]

Wild hogs can be real mean also...
Especially if you call them a pig!!
aXAEsyuW3Uw

[Drachen]

Especially if you call them a pig!!
aXAEsyuW3Uw

:lol

[Wild Cobra]

Especially if you call them a pig!!
aXAEsyuW3Uw
LOL...

We had wild hogs out on a small military site. They really were a nuisance, but we left them alone, and they left us alone.

[spursncowboys]

LOL...

We had wild hogs out on a small military site. They really were a nuisance, but we left them alone, and they left us alone.
I don't care how many times they tell me not to shoot the wildlife, when they run through the firing range-it's on!!

[Wild Cobra]

I don't care how many times they tell me not to shoot the wildlife, when they run through the firing range-it's on!!
LOL...

Just have to time it with a bee-line to your target, right?

[DarrinS]

Children of all races always respond well to President Obama. How children act around a stranger tells you as much about the stranger as about the children themselves. I love how comfortable little children are with our president. He is such a good man, and if we aren't, WE SHOULD BE so proud to have a person like him as our president.

What a precious picture..It goes to show that racists aren't born they are bred....Stop the madness folks

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/Obamakids.jpg


Just stop.

[cantthinkofanything]

Also, notice that the parents made sure there was a cop on hand





http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/Obamakids.jpg

[spursncowboys]

LOL...

Just have to time it with a bee-line to your target, right?
I remember a buddy of mine shot at-4 at a target out in the range. It completely missed. The Range Observer started yelling at him, saying "You missed!!" My friend said "No I didn't" and through the radio you hear a guy say "holy shit, he just blew that rabbit up!"

[vy65]

This is Fuck You Week, Jezebel's first annual week of desperate emotional cleansing and unhinged psychic purging. And yeah, considering what happened today, we feel weird about it — but still. It's relevant.

At least twenty-seven people including twenty little kids were massacred today at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut, according to the most recent reports. As of now, it's the second-deadliest shooting in U.S. history. How could such a thing happen? Easily: Because we refuse to talk about gun control in this country. Actually, fuck the term "gun control"; we refuse to talk about how to prevent fucking massacres from happening over and over again thanks to how fucking simple it is for practically anyone to get their hands on some nifty automated mass murdering weapons. Fuck everyone who says today isn't the time to politicize gun violence. Most of all, fuck the NRA and all of its political cronies. This is your fault.

Fuck you, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney, for saying that "today is not that day" to discuss gun control. The only acceptable explanation for that statement is that you got cut off from saying, "because yesterday was." Off the top of my head: this year's Dark Night Rises shooting massacre in Aurora might have been an excellent time to bring up the topic! But, no, we had an election to take care of, and neither candidate wanted to tackle the 2nd Amendment some Americans hold so near and dear; Obama discussed gun control a total of 3 times on the campaign trail. 3 times.

We could've talked about it, oh, anytime in the past 13 years since Columbine, because there have been at least 31 school shootings in the U.S. since then. It's a waste of our time to keep listing all of the times we could've talked about it; it's easier just to say the time was then, the time is tomorrow, and the time is now.

Hey, White House: we know you're trying to be respectful, but respect doesn't mean shit to the dozens of families who just lost their little kids and loved ones. Respect them by starting the conversation right now. Start it tonight.

While we're talking politics: Fuck you, all of the politicians who received money from the NRA last election cycle. Check them out here! Memorize their names and remember that they're a massive part of the problem.

Fuck you, people who say, "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Sorry, assholes, this isn't the time for semantics. Guns are the tools that enable people who kill people to kill lots and lots of people with ease. And they're fucking efficient. According to Mother Jones, which has done excellent research on this topic, there's a clear relationship between the rise in civilian firearms and the rise in mass shootings; they counted two per year on average since 1982, and 24 of the 61 cases they looked at occurred after 2006. This year alone there have been six mass shootings with 110 people injured and killed, a record number. In 1995 there were about 200 million guns in the hands of average Joes and Joannes. Today, there are around 300 million. That's a 50 percent jump. If you don't think that guns have anything to do with the rise in mass shootings, you're a fucking idiot.

Fuck you, people who say, "if only the good guys had guns." Mother Jones, again bringing the awesome rationality and crucial data, analyzed 61 recent U.S. mass shootings and found that the killing wasn't stopped by a civilian with a gun in any of those cases. It's delusional to think that guns can help stop massacres like the one that happened today. Of course, people do think that; yesterday, the Michigan State Senate passed a law allowing concealed weapons in schools and daycares. No no no no no. Let's stop pretending the "if everyone had a gun, everyone could protect themselves!" argument is worth considering. It's obvious it doesn't work, and it's demonstrably dangerous to suggest otherwise. As in, hundreds of people are dying because we can't have a real talk about guns.

Why can't we? Because of the National Rifle Association. FUCK THE NRA. They've been having a successful and lucrative year, as this recent Bloomberg Businessweek piece points out; Republican-controlled legislatures in at least four states are considering allowing employees to bring guns to work, Florida will soon be the first state to have issued 1 million permits allowing people to conceal their firearms, and an Illinois law barring citizens from packing heat outside their home or business was struck down by a federal appeals court.

Since Obama got elected, "firearm manufacturers and their vocal ally, the National Rifle Association, have enjoyed an extraordinary boom, based heavily on fear marketing," Businessweek reports:

The industry pitch: Obama plans to restrict, if not confiscate, your guns. This has sent hundreds of thousands of people to their Main Street gun shop or firearm website, propelled by the notion that they better buy while they can. The twist is that while Obama occasionally murmurs about gun control, he has done nothing to make it more difficult to lawfully acquire or carry firearms. The president and his advisers fear a political backlash (and, on substance, may worry that tinkering with gun laws will not actually affect crime rates in a substantial way).

The upshot: Gun sellers and promoters of gun rights are pushing further and further in an environment of seemingly endless possibilities for their side of the perennial debate over the wisdom and significance of packing heat.

In the past four years, in 37 states, the NRA and their political BFFs have pushed through a whopping 99 laws making guns a cinch to buy, carry in public, and hide from the government.

When shooting massacres like today's happen, the NRA basically just waits around until emotions aren't so raw before its spokespeople start rambling on about self-defense. Then, the NRA waits around some more until Americans move onto some other outrage. They know Obama won't do shit because they and their friends wield so much political power.

By the way, this was the NRA's last tweet, earlier today: "10 Days of NRA Giveaways - Enter today for a chance to win an auto emergency tool!"

Fuck you, NRA. You guys are fucking murderers.

Today, we don't need prayers. We don't need thoughts. We need action. We need to politicize this, and we need to politicize this now. Fuck everyone who isn't ready to talk about gun control. You're the reason 27 people (and counting) died today. Don't forget it.

http://jezebel.com/5968540/fuck-you-guns?utm_campaign=socialflow_jezebel_facebook&utm_source=jezebel_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

[DMC]

but not guns..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/firearm-OECD-UN-data3.jpg

The US isn't even close to the top in murder rate. It doesn't matter what tool they used.

Those at the top in murder rate are largely Latin American countries and African countries. The US has a large population of African Americans and Latin Americans. They comprise the largest portion of the prison population. The EU countries don't have the same situation.

[ChumpDumper]

The US isn't even close to the top in murder rate. It doesn't matter what tool they used.

Those at the top in murder rate are largely Latin American countries and African countries.Hence the title of the graph.
The US has a large population of African Americans and Latin Americans. They comprise the largest portion of the prison population. The EU countries don't have the same situation.I wouldn't expect EU countries to be full of Americans. Some do have rather large immigrant populations though.

[DMC]

Hence the title of the graph.I wouldn't expect EU countries to be full of Americans. Some do have rather large immigrant populations though.

Immigrant is anyone who moved there. It's not just Africans and Latinos. Nice misdirection though. I didn't mention immigrants. I mentioned Africans and Latinos. They comprise a minority of the population but a majority of the crime. Their respective countries are very much under developed because of the fact the indigenous population has a genetic code that makes them predisposed to being poor social creatures. Asians come here from under developed countries and they seem to do just fine for the most part. Latinos and Americanized Africans though come from a culture of living off the grid and even those who succeed in legit business prefer to do most of their bidding off the grid. They take small profits in things others do not consider a profit venture, like going out to lunch with a friend. They do not pay, they get free lunch, that's a profit. They don't leave a tip, they get off cheaper, that's a profit. They haggle prices on menial shit and save a dollar, that's a profit. They feel very good about themselves afterward. They respect people who live off the grid, by hook or by crook. They are wary of people who vote and pay taxes, who have an education and hold a steady job. That's a recipe for a high gun crime rate. You will almost never see one of them turn down a "too good to be true" offer like buying stolen merchandise. They see it as someone else's loss. Italians are very similar. This country is comprised of people who didn't hail from those low gun crime countries. I have no idea why people compare us to them.

[ChumpDumper]

Immigrant is anyone who moved there. It's not just Africans and Latinos. Nice misdirection though. I didn't mention immigrants. I mentioned Africans and Latinos. They comprise a minority of the population but a majority of the crime. Their respective countries are very much under developed because of the fact the indigenous population has a genetic code that makes them predisposed to being poor social creatures. Asians come here from under developed countries and they seem to do just fine for the most part. Latinos and Americanized Africans though come from a culture of living off the grid and even those who succeed in legit business prefer to do most of their bidding off the grid. They take small profits in things others do not consider a profit venture, like going out to lunch with a friend. They do not pay, they get free lunch, that's a profit. They don't leave a tip, they get off cheaper, that's a profit. They haggle prices on menial shit and save a dollar, that's a profit. They feel very good about themselves afterward. They respect people who live off the grid, by hook or by crook. They are wary of people who vote and pay taxes, who have an education and hold a steady job. That's a recipe for a high gun crime rate. You will almost never see one of them turn down a "too good to be true" offer like buying stolen merchandise. They see it as someone else's loss. Italians are very similar. This country is comprised of people who didn't hail from those low gun crime countries. I have no idea why people compare us to them.What the fuck did I just read?

You actually edited it to make your views more clear.

[boutons_deux]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/473b8bcce3dae2fb68556d6129c57994/tumblr_mf2umaMm531r72z2uo1_r1_500.png


http://upwithchris.tumblr.com/post/38067278926/a-grim-reminder-that-children-are-often

[FromWayDowntown]

Anyone have examples of Patriots with guns stopping these monsters when they go on these kind of rampages?

Post 'em here please.

I had forgotten about this, but Columbine High School had a resource officer (a county sheriff assigned to the school) on duty the day of the rampage at that school. An armed resource officer who traded fire with one of the gunmen. His presence -- and the fact that he was armed -- didn't seem to deter those guys from plotting their attack or from carrying it out; in fact, they killed more students after exchanging fire with the resource officer than they did before they encountered him.

I'm not a believer in the idea that the Second Amendment should be repealed or that all guns are bad; I think limits are good, but acknowledge that there are practical problems with trying to impose them. I'll also admit that I'm not a big believer in the notion that introducing guns into schools is either a good idea or an effective deterrent against broken people who choose to do unthinkable things. The Columbine example, singular as it is, is at least some proof that motivated madmen aren't completely deterred by the presence of even a trained gunman at the location they intend to shoot up.

[diego]

Immigrant is anyone who moved there. It's not just Africans and Latinos. Nice misdirection though. I didn't mention immigrants. I mentioned Africans and Latinos. They comprise a minority of the population but a majority of the crime. Their respective countries are very much under developed because of the fact the indigenous population has a genetic code that makes them predisposed to being poor social creatures. Asians come here from under developed countries and they seem to do just fine for the most part. Latinos and Americanized Africans though come from a culture of living off the grid and even those who succeed in legit business prefer to do most of their bidding off the grid. They take small profits in things others do not consider a profit venture, like going out to lunch with a friend. They do not pay, they get free lunch, that's a profit. They don't leave a tip, they get off cheaper, that's a profit. They haggle prices on menial shit and save a dollar, that's a profit. They feel very good about themselves afterward. They respect people who live off the grid, by hook or by crook. They are wary of people who vote and pay taxes, who have an education and hold a steady job. That's a recipe for a high gun crime rate. You will almost never see one of them turn down a "too good to be true" offer like buying stolen merchandise. They see it as someone else's loss. Italians are very similar. This country is comprised of people who didn't hail from those low gun crime countries. I have no idea why people compare us to them.

Could you do me a favor, and publish your research exposing this "genetic code" that predisposes africans and latinos to be "poor social creatures"? It sounds fascinating.

Also, I'd appreciate it if you could tell me where the majority of immigrants in france and spain are from, I imagine you have that info handy as part of your research.
Thanks!

[DMX7]

DMC is trolling pretty hard his morning.

[Drachen]

I had forgotten about this, but Columbine High School had a resource officer (a county sheriff assigned to the school) on duty the day of the rampage at that school. An armed resource officer who traded fire with one of the gunmen. His presence -- and the fact that he was armed -- didn't seem to deter those guys from plotting their attack or from carrying it out; in fact, they killed more students after exchanging fire with the resource officer than they did before they encountered him.

I'm not a believer in the idea that the Second Amendment should be repealed or that all guns are bad; I think limits are good, but acknowledge that there are practical problems with trying to impose them. I'll also admit that I'm not a big believer in the notion that introducing guns into schools is either a good idea or an effective deterrent against broken people who choose to do unthinkable things. The Columbine example, singular as it is, is at least some proof that motivated madmen aren't completely deterred by the presence of even a trained gunman at the location they intend to shoot up.

If you want to take this example a step further, think of how many guns were around Maj. Nidal Hasan.

[Shastafarian]

Immigrant is anyone who moved there. It's not just Africans and Latinos. Nice misdirection though. I didn't mention immigrants. I mentioned Africans and Latinos. They comprise a minority of the population but a majority of the crime. Their respective countries are very much under developed because of the fact the indigenous population has a genetic code that makes them predisposed to being poor social creatures. Asians come here from under developed countries and they seem to do just fine for the most part. Latinos and Americanized Africans though come from a culture of living off the grid and even those who succeed in legit business prefer to do most of their bidding off the grid. They take small profits in things others do not consider a profit venture, like going out to lunch with a friend. They do not pay, they get free lunch, that's a profit. They don't leave a tip, they get off cheaper, that's a profit. They haggle prices on menial shit and save a dollar, that's a profit. They feel very good about themselves afterward. They respect people who live off the grid, by hook or by crook. They are wary of people who vote and pay taxes, who have an education and hold a steady job. That's a recipe for a high gun crime rate. You will almost never see one of them turn down a "too good to be true" offer like buying stolen merchandise. They see it as someone else's loss. Italians are very similar. This country is comprised of people who didn't hail from those low gun crime countries. I have no idea why people compare us to them.


What the fuck did I just read?

[boutons_deux]

If you want to take this example a step further, think of how many guns were around Maj. Nidal Hasan.

was he wearing body armor? if not, refutes even more the "more guns everywhere all the time" to "save the children" argument (which really a guns-and-ammo sales pitch)

[spursncowboys]

If you want to take this example a step further, think of how many guns were around Maj. Nidal Hasan.
None. Soldiers are not allowed to carry personal weapons what-so-ever. Can't even have them in your house if you live on post. When you sign out weapons from your unit arms room, most first sergeants won't let you go anywhere from your building until all weapons are accounted for and back in the arms room. Furthermore it takes quite a bit of paperwork to get ammo. The ammo, normally is met with your unit at the range. After words you are patted down and all your equipment and clothing is rummaged through for lost ammo. unused rounds and dunnage (empty shells) are counted and have to match the amount you originally went out with. It's very tedious but VERY thorough.