How long does it take to get some respect?

[Alamode]

I feel Manu needs some defending here and I don't mean from his shooting. When do NBA players and fans give the man the respect he deserves not only as a player but a human being? In the Nuggets series Karl ripped Ginobili. In the Sonics series "the tool" Danny Fortson flagrantly fouled both Manu and Tim but he only "apologized" to Tim, twice! Then there was flopper-gate. In the Detroit series Rasheed proclaimed Gino was "nothing special" but said positive things about Duncan. Piston & Phoenix fans wrote derogatory signs about our boy. Where are the derogatory signs for Duncan and Parker? They are just as much a large part of the Spurs. Or do opposing fan signs for Gino show that he has "arrived?"

It would be one thing if Gino was an ass in real life but everyone who meets him says he a super nice guy and he has never said anything inflammatory about anyone else. So what's really the deal? I don't buy the other thread about racism. Is it some jealousy because Gino burned most of these teams? Is it his style of play as Karl suggests? Duncan burned these teams too and is also a nice guy--yet he gets the respect. And Parker basically doesn't get talked about unless Eva's around. Does Gino need to be in the league longer to earn respect, earn more championships or will it never happen?

I just think it's shame that a nice guy is being treated so horribly by many and I'm searching for answers. Any theories that weren't explored in another thread? :wtf :depressed

[WayDowntownBang]

I'm sure Manu is just fine. Don't take it too personal, you know he doesn't.

[Horry For 3!]

Its basketball. Manu is always driving to the basket and going hard. He is a true basketball player who plays with heart. Others don't like it, it is as simple as that.

[Alamode]

Its basketball. Manu is always driving to the basket and going hard. He is a true basketball player who plays with heart. Others don't like it, it is as simple as that.

But that makes no sense. He should be getting mad respect for doing just what you said.

[spurschick]

Tony and Manu have 2 championship rings... do you think they really care what George Karl says? Or what anyone else says, for that matter? We're sensitive whenever anyone says anything about our players but, in the end, the trophy does the talking.

[Marcus Bryant]

Who needs "respect" when you have...

http://www.spursteam.com/photos/spurs/050625/050625_8.jpg

...these?

:smokin

[SWC Bonfire]

Manu & Timmy will get respect when they goe out on the court in the 2029 finals in the "Final Legends" promotion of the time, and the commentator says, "Man, those sure were some Spurs teams back in the turn of the 21st century." But in Spanish. :lol

[Banks91]

its very simle, the reason he doesnt get the respect is he hasnt done wat he does long enough, this is basically his first time doin wat he did this year

the 03 ring, he was a sub, averaged less then 10points a game in playoffs, last year they didnt win the ring plus nobody was that good last year in the playoffs, so it makes perfect sense if people are sceptic about him. i dont like it ,but thats how it goes, he will have to do this for 1 or 2 more seasons before he gets duncan type respect

[Alamode]

Tony and Manu have 2 championship rings... do you think they really care what George Karl says? Or what anyone else says, for that matter? We're sensitive whenever anyone says anything about our players but, in the end, the trophy does the talking.


But it's not just Karl. I know the players don't care and they don't need to care but I have a crazy curiosity as to why two men with similar "nice" qualities and the ability to rip opponents apart produce very different reactions from people.

[spurschick]

But it's not just Karl. I know the players don't care and they don't need to care but I have a crazy curiosity as to why two men with similar "nice" qualities and the ability to rip opponents apart produce very different reactions from people.

I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure it out... you'll go crazy and still never come up with the answer. :spin

[Banks91]

i gave u 2 an answer, read my post, it explains perfectly

[Ishta]

Because he's a SPUR...If your waiting for respect you'll be waiting awhile..That's just how it is..Now if he was playing for the fakers, or someone large market ....you get the drift...Just deal with it. We've been dealing with the no respect thing for years...

[Banks91]

holy , ive never noticed how badly in denial u san antonio people are, u try to make everything into disrespect this , disrespect that

[SpursWoman]

When you see this on your way home from work.....


http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_jan2004/HellFreezesOver.jpg

[Banks91]

if yall cant see that manu just needs to do wat he did for a couple more seasons to get the kind of respect u want him to have, then yall in serious denial,

if manu was to get that kind of respect right now, that would be disrespecting guys like duncan , shaq and kobe, players who have been doin wat they do for years , not one season

id love for manu to get that respect, but he needs a couple more seasons to get it

[austinfan]

I think it's a combination of things, rather than one reason in particular:

1. This was Manu's breakout season and before now very few casual basketball fans had heard of him outside of Texas. He didn't come up through the college ranks and get lots of exposure from a young age that way like Duncan did, for example.

2. He plays for a small-market team that doesn't have big media types to hype him up. (i.e. not NY, LA, Chicago, Miami)

3. He's modest and doesn't hype himself by making controversial statements, getting into messy contract negotiations, or engaging in criminal activity.

4. He cares more about team play and winning, rather than personal numbers, so he's not trying to post 30-15 numbers on a regular basis and go for the monster dunks just in order to make the nightly highlight reels.

Call me naive, but I believe his ethnicity and national origin have relatively little to do with his lack of exposure. Americans love winners, and if Ginobili continues to shine like he did this past year, they will get on the bandwagon. Especially if he's marketed well through endorsements. The Latino population is one of the fastest-growing demographics in the country and has an increasing amount of disposable income to spend on shoes, hamburgers and cars that Manu sells. Advertisers are crazy if they don't take advantage of the opportunity he represents for them. With time and more exposure, Manu will get more acknowledgment from the general population.

[samikeyp]

He gets all that attention because of how good he is and what he can do on the court. Tony is not at that level yet and Tim is not as flashy as Manu can be. Actually the fact that fans are focusing on Manu is a sign of respect. If he wasn't any good, they wouldn't care.

[Spursdaone]

I agree Manu is is underrated. He is almost as good as Duncan and a borderline superstar. He creates turnovers for other teams who play them and is a great passer along with being a great shooter and slasher. He does everything and makes Duncan look good.

[Banks91]

hey spurs da one, if u did wat u do for say 6-7 years, and i came along played good one post season, should i be thought of in the same way as u


cuz thats basically wat ur demandin the public to do

[Banks91]

hey since its gonna be like that, hey Taushan had excellent finals last year, y dont we think of him like we think of shaq and kobe, and duncan too. lets go further and toss wade into that same group as well

[Banks91]

man u kno wat, some one go tell manu to play like he did this season next season and we will toss into jordans elite group , if that easy

i like manu, but u people are gettin way ahead of yourself

[Spursdaone]

Ginobili had one great year and 2 good years. Every part of Duncan's career he had major help. David Robinson, Mario Elie, and Sean Elliot the first championship. David Robinson, Stephen Jackson, Tony Parker, and Ginobili off the bench in the second championship, and Ginobili playing like a superstar with Parker improving at the point guard in the third. I would like to see Duncan without that help and see how far he gets.

[bigzak25]

manu doesn't need to be respected. he needs be feared. he is. :smokin

[jochhejaam]

I'm sure Manu is just fine. Don't take it too personal, you know he doesn't.

Yep, I'm betting Manu isn't fazed in the least, he's treated like a God in his own country and has the respect of the majority of the basketball world.

As far as the comments from Rasheed, it's not up to opposing players to stroke the ego of the opposing teams players especially in the middle of the Finals and I'd guess that Manu couldn't care less.

What's probably more important to him is how he's viewed by his fellow countrymen, his teammates and the Spurs fans.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I agree Manu is is underrated. He is almost as good as Duncan and a borderline superstar. He creates turnovers for other teams who play them and is a great passer along with being a great shooter and slasher. He does everything and makes Duncan look good.
... crazytalk...

[Banks91]

looooooooooooooooooooooool hey spursda one, for every post of urs i read, ur gettin to be more of a little bitch for real

lets see the people u named that he had help from,

first ring, he has an old robinson, but still good ill grant u that
but mario ellie, sean elliot, y namin those 2 like they are allstars, or superstars,

second ring, manu is a sub, less then 10 points, he even admitted couple weeks ago he didnt have much of an impact on the team, lets see, stephen jackson wat the fuck man, u ever hear of him before the playoffs now ur makin it seem like he is kobe or something, and stever kerr, cmon on man that guy does wat he does cuz of superstars like Jordan and duncan, not the other way around u dumb fuck.

the 3rd ring ill give his teammates credit for, this is the 1 championship ill say he needed and got some serious help, but the other 2, that was like 95% duncan

[samikeyp]

yes Duncan had help but no player can do it alone. Jordan couldn't, Magic couldn't, Hakeem couldn't. Its about being a team and I think, slowly but surely, the Spurs as a team are getting it. Then again, if they don't...who cares? As long as they keep winning championships, history will be on their side.

[Ishta]

yes Duncan had help but no player can do it alone. Jordan couldn't, Magic couldn't, Hakeem couldn't. Its about being a team and I think, slowly but surely, the Spurs as a team are getting it. Then again, if they don't...who cares? As long as they keep winning championships, history will be on their side.
Very True....

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

My theory, the NBA and American media will never forgive him for making the US Olympic team look like a bunch of chumps.

[samikeyp]

If they want to point fingers for the bronze medal....the last place they want to look is Duncan.

[slayermin]

A friend of mine thinks Manu is a great player but he doesn't like the fact that he's Argentinean.

He thinks Argentina is racist against black people. I don't know if that's true but he does loves Brazil because of their African roots. I tell him that Manu is a great guy and a hard worker. For me, I could never picture Ginobili being racist.

From what I have read from the Argentine posters here and other boards, I have a positive image of Argentina. I am not sure where my friend gets his opinions from but he does work for the US government and is a college grad.

To me, Manu Ginobili has been the epitome of class. He is a perfect fit for the San Antonio Spurs.

[Spursdaone]

If they want to point fingers for the bronze medal....the last place they want to look is Duncan.
That was an example if you don't have the right players around you that you can't win. Garnett is the same thing. These players can't do everything for the team.

[samikeyp]

That was an example if you don't have the right players around you that you can't win. Garnett is the same thing. These players can't do everything for the team.

That was my point....exile said he thought the media might blame Tim for Athens...my point was if that was going to happen....look at Tims' teammates.

[easjer]

I think the Athens fiasco had less to do with even the teammates than with the lack of time as a team. A lot of the best players backed out, and a good number on that team were last minute replacements. Very, very few teams can succeed in those circumstances, even with the best talent.

[WayDowntownBang]

When you see this on your way home from work.....


http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_jan2004/HellFreezesOver.jpg


This is about an hour from my house...

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

whoops, i'm not saying that Duncan made the US team look like chumps, I'm saying that Manu did. Damn pronoun usage.

Duncan got handcuffed by the massive difference in the way the refs call the NBA games and international games. Hell, I played in a middle school game where our opponents forfeited because they couldn't field five guys thanks to refs calling the game super tight and I think they were being looser than the international refs.

No, I think that Manu has in some sense become a lightening rod for that frustration, not Tim.

[SpursWoman]

This is about an hour from my house...


Hell frozen over?


:wow damn... :lmao

[samikeyp]

I think the Athens fiasco had less to do with even the teammates than with the lack of time as a team. A lot of the best players backed out, and a good number on that team were last minute replacements. Very, very few teams can succeed in those circumstances, even with the best talent.

I think that is a big part of it as well.

[Alamode]

Yep, I'm betting Manu isn't fazed in the least, he's treated like a God in his own country and has the respect of the majority of the basketball world.

As far as the comments from Rasheed, it's not up to opposing players to stroke the ego of the opposing teams players especially in the middle of the Finals and I'd guess that Manu couldn't care less.

What's probably more important to him is how he's viewed by his fellow countrymen, his teammates and the Spurs fans.


I agree completely. My point is why do 'Sheed and others only say only good things about Duncan but cannot bring themselves to say anything positive about Gino. Duncan and Gino equally burned the Pistons and one guy gets props for his play by his opponent and the other doesn't. It's like they have a personal axe to grind with Gino but Duncan can burn them and it's okay. Again I say that Fortson paid enough respect to apologize to Duncan for his fouls but Gino did not get that same respect. Is this lack of acknowledgement based on Gino as the player or the person?

[Spursdaone]

I think that team in Athens had bad chemistry and Larry Brown should be blamed for the players he put on the floor. Why did Marbury start over Wade and Why didn't Stoudemire start. A.I and Marbury are used to being the main player on their team but have to share the ball and it just didn't fit. Duncan is not good in dominating a game for a team that sucks. The chemistry has to be there for Duncan to be effective.

[jochhejaam]

[/B]

I agree completely. My point is why do 'Sheed and others only say only good things about Duncan but cannot bring themselves to say anything positive about Gino. Duncan and Gino equally burned the Pistons and one guy gets props for his play by his opponent and the other doesn't. It's like they have a personal axe to grind with Gino but Duncan can burn them and it's okay. Again I say that Fortson paid enough respect to apologize to Duncan for his fouls but Gino did not get that same respect. Is this lack of acknowledgement based on Gino as the player or the person?

Possibly has something to the fraternal brotherhood that exists among African-American players. I remember when Isaiah Thomas, during the 1987 playoffs, parroted Dennis Rodman and said that if Larry Bird were black he'd be just "another good guy" instead of being hyped as the league's best player. (Thomas later apologized to Bird and claimed he was joking).

Also, consider the source of your irritation, Danny Fortson and Rasheed Wallace.

[Athenea]

He thinks Argentina is racist against black people.
We have many many maaaaaany flaws as a society but racist against black ppl is not 1 of them.
We "hate" Brazilians when it comes to soccer, no matter the color. The same way they hate us (tell me about it after yesterday's debacle :rolleyes ).
5% of the population is black here.
We do have other forms of discrimination but no to extremes seen by the world in other countries (racist attacks, kkk kind of groups, etcetera).
We had nazis coming to Argentina after the WWII but as they were "under covered" their influence in our society was nullum.
So...tell your friend he has the right to dislike us, but he better does it by the right reasons and not only due misguided presumptions.

[Banks91]

are yall still on that shit about ginobili not gettin the respect equal to duncan

loool look im gonna say it one more time, he has not done enough to warrant that amount of respect , its as simple as that

forget racism, or any other of that bull shit. Since when has it become that u can have great post season , and ur suddenly looked at like u would look at a duncan, or a kobe, or a shaq. He needs more seasons and playoff performances like this season to get that kind of respect , till then he wont get it , and he shouldnt either

[jochhejaam]

are yall still on that shit about ginobili not gettin the respect equal to duncan

loool look im gonna say it one more time, he has not done enough to warrant that amount of respect , its as simple as that

forget racism, or any other of that bull shit.

multiple posts with the same message doesn't add credibility to your arguement. Lay it out there and let the readers decide if your reasoning merits any consideration. Unless you've talked to Fortson or Wallace your opinions are conjecture just like everyone elses.

Good sound reasoning, facts and diplomacy can win people to your point of view. You're not gonna intimidate or bully anyone into buying into your arguements.

[slayermin]

We have many many maaaaaany flaws as a society but racist against black ppl is not 1 of them.
We "hate" Brazilians when it comes to soccer, no matter the color. The same way they hate us (tell me about it after yesterday's debacle :rolleyes ).
5% of the population is black here.
We do have other forms of discrimination but no to extremes seen by the world in other countries (racist attacks, kkk kind of groups, etcetera).
We had nazis coming to Argentina after the WWII but as they were "under covered" their influence in our society was nullum.
So...tell your friend he has the right to dislike us, but he better does it by the right reasons and not only due misguided presumptions.

Thank you, Athenea. Now I have ammo to throw back at my friend.

Like I said, I have only the utmost respect for Manu and Argentina. I only asked him his opinion because it seemed like Manu wasn't getting the respect he deserves.

I don't know the history of Brazil or Argentina. But is it fair to say that Brazil has stronger african roots than Argentina? I was just curious.

[Banks91]

hey jochhejaam, if u think about wat im sayin it makes perfect sense

lets take duncan, 6-7 years in the leaque , does wat he does, wins mvps, rings , so he deserves the respect that he gets, same with shaq, and other big name guys

now take ginobili, year 1, he won a ring but he admits it himself he a small role,
second year, he didnt do too much, didnt win a ring, didnt dominate playoffs, but
this year he did both, so its understandable he is gettin recognition

but u people basically expect him to get duncan type, shaq type, kobe type, big name type of respect for basically one season, and one post season of play

come on, u kno it doesnt work like that , and it shouldnt work like that
he needs 1-2-3 more post and regular season of that before u can give him such respect

[jochhejaam]

hey jochhejaam, if u think about wat im sayin it makes perfect sense

lets take duncan, 6-7 years in the leaque , does wat he does, wins mvps, rings , so he deserves the respect that he gets, same with shaq, and other big name guys

now take ginobili, year 1, he won a ring but he admits it himself he a small role,
second year, he didnt do too much, didnt win a ring, didnt dominate playoffs, but
this year he did both, so its understandable he is gettin recognition

but u people basically expect him to get duncan type, shaq type, kobe type, big name type of respect for basically one season, and one post season of play

come on, u kno it doesnt work like that , and it shouldnt work like that
he needs 1-2-3 more post and regular season of that before u can give him such respect

"hey Banks (again) :lol
I agree, respect grows after many successes.

I personally wouldn't take slights to the players on my team seriously enough to bring it up in a message board thread, but I'm trying to answer his concerns with respect and honesty, the same vein in which I would hope people would respond to my posts.

Thanks :)

[Banks91]

ur point of repeatin wat i wrote is wat exactly...........

[jochhejaam]

ur point of repeatin wat i wrote is wat exactly...........
read up again, I was editing :lol

[Banks91]

ok, as long as u agree

[jochhejaam]

ok, as long as u agree

to the extent that your thinking aligns up with the entirety of the thoughts of my posts in this thread we agree.

My intent in this thread was to help Alamode with his questions, not to appease you. :)

[austinfan]

I don't know the history of Brazil or Argentina. But is it fair to say that Brazil has stronger african roots than Argentina? I was just curious.

Brazil has really deep African roots. The slave trade went on for centuries there, just like in the U.S., except that there was a lot more intermarrying, and African influence has filtered down into every aspect of society: music, food, religion, language. I lived for several years in Salvador, the 3rd largest city in the country, and the population is something like 70% black. I don't know what the percentage is for the entire country, but I bet it's high.

Not to take this thread off-topic, but I wonder why Brazil doesn't have a significant presence in the NBA? I guess the whole country is so soccer obsessed that it's hard to get young kids there as excited about basketball as they are about futebol.

[AI-square]

In the Nuggets series Karl ripped Ginobili.

His team got beat. What did you expect him to say? "This guy is great, I'm surprised we didn't pick him instead of James Posey and Francisco Elson in 1999..." :wtf

[hendrix]

Thank you, Athenea. Now I have ammo to throw back at my friend.

To your friend in the US goverment. Tell him the world has not seen the attack to all humankind as it is happening today thanks to the goverment lead by the new Adolf Hitler...
I made it short because this is not the political forum.
In respect to Argentina, it has/had the same racist issues that any multicultural nation (like most western european countries) has/had.
And about the Nazis, americans should know by now that most SS agents were silently added to the agency later named CIA.

[midgetonadonkey]

Fuck respect. Just give me the rings.

[caspian]

I think it's a combination of things, rather than one reason in particular:

1. This was Manu's breakout season and before now very few casual basketball fans had heard of him outside of Texas. He didn't come up through the college ranks and get lots of exposure from a young age that way like Duncan did, for example.

2. He plays for a small-market team that doesn't have big media types to hype him up. (i.e. not NY, LA, Chicago, Miami)

3. He's modest and doesn't hype himself by making controversial statements, getting into messy contract negotiations, or engaging in criminal activity.

4. He cares more about team play and winning, rather than personal numbers, so he's not trying to post 30-15 numbers on a regular basis and go for the monster dunks just in order to make the nightly highlight reels.

Call me naive, but I believe his ethnicity and national origin have relatively little to do with his lack of exposure. Americans love winners, and if Ginobili continues to shine like he did this past year, they will get on the bandwagon. Especially if he's marketed well through endorsements. The Latino population is one of the fastest-growing demographics in the country and has an increasing amount of disposable income to spend on shoes, hamburgers and cars that Manu sells. Advertisers are crazy if they don't take advantage of the opportunity he represents for them. With time and more exposure, Manu will get more acknowledgment from the general population.

Completely agree.

[Mark in Austin]

I think Sean Elliott disagrees with you, Banks91. As do I. There are plenty of players that get crazy (sometimes underserved) hype after one or two years. Hell, this is a league built on hype.

"If he was an inner-city kid, if Manu Ginobili was from Chicago or New York, and he was bringing the game like he's bringing it now, all the players in the league would say, 'Manu is the truth.' Instead they say, 'He throws his arms, he flails.' Every series in the playoffs this year, it's been that way. Denver did not want to give him credit in the first round. Seattle, same thing. Now Detroit."
There is unabashed anti-white racism all over the league.

I sat in the room a couple years ago when Kenny Smith addressed the incoming rookie class during the NBA's training session. The room included dozens of European players. But Kenny only spoke to the black Americans, and he more or less told them that foreign players were getting their jobs because they brought new fans, and increased revenues to the teams and the league.

Here's the Washington Post column: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/24/AR2005062401536.html?sub=AR)

The backlash goes much deeper than the media. At least three players not playing in the Finals spoken to this week on condition their names not be used -- black players whose NBA jobs are being outsourced -- desperately wanted the Pistons to beat the Spurs. For no other reason than, as one of them candidly said, "We gotta put some of these guys back in their place."
It may be too late, especially after Ginobili became the first foreign player to complete a historic double -- winning a gold medal for his country and an NBA championship for his team. Ginobili led Argentina to victory in Athens and had one of the more impressive fourth quarters of a close-out game in the Finals. He scored 11 of his 23 points in the fourth, penetrating the heart of the league's most physically imposing defense in the final minutes to ice the game and the title. He made both three-point shots he attempted, including a 26-footer with 2 minutes 57 seconds left, a shot that pushed the Spurs' lead to 72-65.

At one juncture Thursday night, Ginobili began a hard dribble from the left wing and elevated a few feet from the basket in the middle of the key. By the time he reached the rim with the ball, defenders were closing in. He switched the ball in mid-air from his left hand, his shooting hand, to his right, dunking stylishly. More than 18,000 people in the arena stood and roared for several minutes afterward.

Rasheed Wallace was asked why Ginobili was so tough to guard earlier in the series. Wallace refused to give Ginobili his due, stopping just short of putting him down as a player while making it clear he did not think Ginobili was a special talent. Sean Elliott, the former NBA forward who now works as a radio and TV analyst for the Spurs, has seen this dismissive behavior before by NBA players when it comes to Ginobili. He believes it goes much further than merely professional jealousy.

"When you have a Dirk Nowitzki or Larry Bird-type players, big guys who play their positions well, there's not a lot of backlash," Elliott said. "But when you have a 6-6 white guy beating the black player at his own game, then it's a little different. Every series he's been in, guys have been slow to give him respect. It's an amazing phenomenon.

Added Elliott, "If he was an inner-city kid, if Manu Ginobili was from Chicago or New York, and he was bringing the game like he's bringing it now, all the players in the league would say, 'Manu is the truth.' Instead they say, 'He throws his arms, he flails.' Every series in the playoffs this year, it's been that way. Denver did not want to give him credit in the first round. Seattle, same thing. Now Detroit."

[slayermin]

Brazil has really deep African roots. The slave trade went on for centuries there, just like in the U.S., except that there was a lot more intermarrying, and African influence has filtered down into every aspect of society: music, food, religion, language. I lived for several years in Salvador, the 3rd largest city in the country, and the population is something like 70% black. I don't know what the percentage is for the entire country, but I bet it's high.

Not to take this thread off-topic, but I wonder why Brazil doesn't have a significant presence in the NBA? I guess the whole country is so soccer obsessed that it's hard to get young kids there as excited about basketball as they are about futebol.

Thanks for the info. The history of Brazil sounds interesting to me. I will have to do my own reading on the subject. From what I was told, it's one of the best examples of a melting pot that there is around the world.


To your friend in the US goverment. Tell him the world has not seen the attack to all humankind as it is happening today thanks to the goverment lead by the new Adolf Hitler...
I made it short because this is not the political forum.
In respect to Argentina, it has/had the same racist issues that any multicultural nation (like most western european countries) has/had.
And about the Nazis, americans should know by now that most SS agents were silently added to the agency later named CIA.

I respect my friend's opinion because he is not a Spurs Fan but respects David Robinson immensly. He is a former collegiate athlete and he happens to be african american. There must be a reason why guys like Rasheed Wallace don't give props to Manu. I'm not saying Rasheed's opinion means much but he seems to be a part of a large group of players that resent what Manu represents.

[midgetonadonkey]

I think Sheed was just pissed about Manu tearing their defense up. I don't think twice about what that fucker says. Why is respect such a big deal to everybody? In 10-15 years, people will look back and know how great this team really is.

[smeagol]

To your friend in the US goverment. Tell him the world has not seen the attack to all humankind as it is happening today thanks to the goverment lead by the new Adolf Hitler...
I made it short because this is not the political forum.
In respect to Argentina, it has/had the same racist issues that any multicultural nation (like most western european countries) has/had.
And about the Nazis, americans should know by now that most SS agents were silently added to the agency later named CIA.
Simma down, amigo. The guy who works in the US government seams to be ignorant of things related with Argentina.

No era necesario salir con los tapones de punta. :spin

[slayermin]

Simma down, amigo. The guy who works in the US government seams to be ignorant of things related with Argentina.

No era necesario salir con los tapones de punta. :spin

There are tons of jobs in the government. I didn't add that to make it seem like everyone in the US feels that way.

Sorry I listed that tidbit. I probably shouldn't have, in hindsight.

Should I have not even mentioned this racism thing at all? It was just curious to me.

[spurster]

Need years for respect?

Counterexamples: Look at the hype (mostly well-deserved IMHO) for Amare, Wade, Arenas, LeBron, and Carmelo. None of them have exactly had a lot of playoff success.

[Banks91]

Ok , let me tell yall how i see it.

Let us take manu and his regular season, it was ok, the numbers didnt make u say woaw, not his rebounds, not his assists, not any part at all.
Second , he is playin with an annual league mvp candidate in duncan

Lets take the playoffs. First off, his playoff numbers are about 20 a game, which if u think about it, are not numbers that u go crazy over. Second, yet again, he is playin with duncan, who gets most of the attention, then u add his finals numbers, which are also around 20. So basically statistically, his numbers dont make u say woaw. Third, he didnt win finals mvp, which can be an argument all of its own,but one i wont go into

these other people who u say get undeserved hype after a season or 2, they most likely have stats that make u say woaw, or they got some serious attention from their opponents and still could not get stopped (example wade against detroit)

basically if i was a person who didnt watch basketball this year and i was to look at manu, i wouldnt see anything special in him, and alot of people look at it like that

[smeagol]

There are tons of jobs in the government. I didn't add that to make it seem like everyone in the US feels that way.

Sorry I listed that tidbit. I probably shouldn't have, in hindsight.

Should I have not even mentioned this racism thing at all? It was just curious to me.
No biggie. People who work in the government are not required to know about Argentina. I have no clue what's going on in many countries.

Not sure why he thought we were racists. I don't think we are, although lately in the press there have been some incidents reported regarding racism in soccer.

[Banks91]

ok , let me argue against spurster now

[Banks91]

lets see, amare, any respect that guy gets is well deserved
carmelo, if u have noticed, has lost a lot of respect and admiration from first season to right now, arenas im not gonna talk about cuz theres no point in that
wade, after this postseason, statistically and performance deserves any respect he gets

[smeagol]

basically if i was a person who didnt watch basketball this year and i was to look at manu, i wouldnt see anything special in him, and alot of people look at it like that
If you are a guy who watches basketball through "ppg glasses", then you probably would find Manu to be a good player, but not a superstar.

Luckily, there are some people that don't.

Are you TPark trying to through us off with your typos?

[Banks91]

personally, duncan wouldnt say anything or gripe, but im pretty sure most people would if ginobili was seen in the same group as he is

i can tell u i would, considering wat ive done and the work ive put in

[Banks91]

are u gonna actually argue with me that people dont look at ppg

with a guy like duncan it really doesnt matter if he averages low 20s or high 20s
cuz he backs up with like 14-15 boards and 3 blocks

but for a guard, if he isnt puttin up serious numbers,and no big time or assists or rebounds wat do u judge him by

[Banks91]

who ever this t park guy is, if he sees things the way i see them, then he is one guy that knows wat he is talkin about lol

[Banks91]

either way im done with thread, im movin on to other ones, latez yall

[smeagol]

are u gonna actually argue with me that people dont look at ppg

with a guy like duncan it really doesnt matter if he averages low 20s or high 20s
cuz he backs up with like 14-15 boards and 3 blocks

but for a guard, if he isnt puttin up serious numbers,and no big time or assists or rebounds wat do u judge him by
No, I wont argue with you. It is really difficult to follow your train of thought.